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| 00:31.34 | TimRiker | hmm. so what if I make it to Google's campus early? (like now) Should I look for building 42 early? |
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| 01:58.08 | jasta | teehee |
| 01:58.13 | jasta | this code is awful ;) |
| 01:59.10 | jasta | oh well. damn google for putting such a hard deadline :) |
| 02:00.12 | jerkface03 | hard deadline and still no nio |
| 02:03.59 | romainguy | jerkface03: Do you have to use nio? |
| 02:04.10 | jerkface03 | yes. |
| 02:04.14 | jerkface03 | i dont know how this is news to anyone |
| 02:04.14 | romainguy | How come? |
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| 02:04.21 | jerkface03 | i've been complaining about it here since before the competition |
| 02:04.24 | romainguy | I know |
| 02:04.28 | jerkface03 | pft im not going to tlel you my super secret idea :/ |
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| 02:04.40 | jerkface03 | you'll have to wait and see |
| 02:04.46 | romainguy | jerkface03: Then I can't support your case for you... |
| 02:04.55 | romainguy | I'm just curious as to why you cannot use the old IO APIs |
| 02:05.20 | jerkface03 | sure, thats one way to see it |
| 02:05.20 | jerkface03 | or |
| 02:05.24 | jerkface03 | how about seeing it this way |
| 02:05.31 | jerkface03 | you documented it, so why don't you implement it |
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| 04:48.44 | jasta | alright, back to coding |
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| 05:37.38 | msbhvn | hi |
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| 09:54.03 | Stephmw | mornin |
| 09:54.21 | cutmasta | morning |
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| 13:47.53 | davidw | dammit |
| 13:47.59 | davidw | it seems this munich thing is already sold out |
| 13:48.18 | cutmasta | you mean the android tour? |
| 13:48.40 | davidw | yeah |
| 13:49.06 | cutmasta | yeah |
| 13:49.14 | cutmasta | i already noticed that |
| 13:49.16 | cutmasta | :( |
| 13:49.19 | davidw | that's pretty lame |
| 13:49.32 | cutmasta | yep |
| 13:55.51 | davidw | I wrote an email to the dude in Germany, and Mr. Morrill |
| 13:56.03 | davidw | Morril |
| 14:00.08 | cutmasta | cool |
| 14:04.15 | kristian-m | there is a munich tour?! |
| 14:06.25 | kristian-m | they should open a second then |
| 14:33.28 | davidw | kristian-m, cutmasta, write them yourselves... the more people that do, the more they're going to be under pressure to meet the demand |
| 14:33.37 | davidw | (sorry dan:-) |
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| 15:41.00 | mike1o | im querying a cursor but I only want it to return the first row... |
| 15:41.25 | mike1o | how am I supposed to do that? |
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| 15:50.17 | davidw | are these things supposed to have motion sensors? |
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| 20:11.14 | tgpraveen | hi all |
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| 20:29.13 | guardian | good evening |
| 20:29.20 | Stephmw | howdy |
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| 21:25.37 | jasta | yawn |
| 21:28.00 | michaelnovakjr | yawn |
| 21:28.26 | michaelnovakjr | guess we need one of those loaded new coke soft drinks |
| 21:33.00 | morrildl | heh |
| 21:36.39 | morrildl | who came to the Campfire yesterday? |
| 21:36.42 | morrildl | And what did you think? |
| 21:37.04 | romainguy | morrildl: What did you guys do during the Campfire? |
| 21:37.14 | jasta | you didn't go? |
| 21:37.42 | romainguy | jasta: Unfortunately I was too busy fixing bugs until late :) |
| 21:38.40 | morrildl | romainguy: mostly we just talked a lot :) |
| 21:38.47 | romainguy | :) |
| 21:39.38 | jasta | that's what i said :) |
| 21:39.48 | jasta | you guys should've rented out a bar ;) |
| 21:40.54 | morrildl | jasta: well, there WAS beer |
| 21:41.14 | jerkface03 | morrildl: hows the NIO issue coming along? |
| 21:41.16 | morrildl | davidw: the first one we did was cornier than this one ;) |
| 21:41.28 | morrildl | jerkface03: should be fixed in the next SDK we release |
| 21:41.41 | davidw | jerkface03, what's the NIO issue? |
| 21:41.42 | jerkface03 | morrildl: will the next SDK release be available before the challenge ends? |
| 21:41.53 | romainguy | davidw: NIO not implemented :) |
| 21:42.04 | morrildl | jerkface03: more specifically, code for a whole bunch of additional java.* packages got pulled in |
| 21:42.54 | romainguy | davidw: The fix did not happen in the M3 branch |
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| 21:45.52 | jasta | i've had to waste a ton of time on my project working on client/server crap. i hope that i'm judged fairly if my UI sucks ;) |
| 21:46.04 | duey | sif i havent' started |
| 21:46.11 | duey | i should start shouldn't i |
| 21:46.22 | jasta | well, uhh, yeah :) |
| 21:46.37 | michaelnovakjr | when's the round one deadline? |
| 21:46.42 | jasta | although my project was ambitious enough that i needed to start in dec. |
| 21:46.43 | duey | march 4 |
| 21:46.45 | duey | or something |
| 21:47.01 | duey | mines insanely ambitious |
| 21:47.06 | duey | i have a year to do it at uni |
| 21:47.08 | michaelnovakjr | that should be fun then |
| 21:47.13 | duey | 1 month for compo |
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| 21:48.41 | jasta | mine will require a robust client/server architecture, where i must implement both :( |
| 21:49.07 | jasta | although, i'm reusing a lot of existing code (both libraries and code i've written for previous projects) |
| 21:49.46 | jasta | it's fortunate that giftd's meta data extraction and share database code is sufficiently generalized ;) |
| 21:51.31 | davidw | morrildl, romainguy what happens to AndroidManifest.xml in the 'compiled' version? |
| 21:52.17 | jasta | it is converted to some butchered WBXML. |
| 21:52.41 | jasta | by butchered, i mean, it does not seem to comply with the WBXML specification, but it very much so seems to be. |
| 21:52.58 | davidw | I want to hack it without recompiling it |
| 21:55.58 | jasta | well, good luck. benno has some documentation on the format, i believe. |
| 21:59.19 | davidw | hrm...looks like you'd need to fiddle with a number of things |
| 21:59.24 | davidw | pass, for the time being, I guess |
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| 23:35.37 | morrildl | davidw: as jasta said, the various .xml files are "pre-parsed" into a binary format for fast reads at runtime |
| 23:36.07 | morrildl | I don't know anything about WBXML, but I suspect any similarity is coincidental |
| 23:36.30 | davidw | morrildl, hopefully at some point in the future, that machinery will be exposed... |
| 23:36.51 | morrildl | davidw: well, it will be when the source drops :) |
| 23:36.57 | morrildl | what do you mean by machinery? |
| 23:37.04 | morrildl | are you saying you want to fuss around with it? |
| 23:37.50 | duey | im guessing he wants to make real time changes to his app? |
| 23:39.32 | davidw | morrildl, what I want to do is make it so that generating new Hecl apps is very easy. For instance, in the Java ME version, I have a tool, aptly called "JarHack" that can fiddle with the name of the thing and create a new .jar |
| 23:40.04 | davidw | you don't even have to have Sun's WTK around to do it |
| 23:40.25 | davidw | I'd like to be able to do the same thing with Hecl and Android. Replacing the res/raw/script.hcl file is easy enough with zip |
| 23:41.47 | morrildl | hmm |
| 23:42.42 | morrildl | so then you're saying that you want to "synthesize" or construct a .apk file from within the device for a specific Hecl script, and then write it to storage, so that the script appears to be its own app and gets its own icon, etc? |
| 23:42.49 | davidw | it's not my most pressing problem at the moment, but it's a 'nice touch' that needs to be there sooner or later |
| 23:43.41 | jasta | morrildl: I agree, it looks like the format deviates from WBXML sufficiently enough that it seems to have just been reinvented. |
| 23:43.45 | davidw | morrildl, from within the device is frosting on the cake - I'd be happy to start with changing an existing apk outside the device, without having to open it up and use the provided tools |
| 23:43.59 | jasta | Probably to get away from the clutches of the OMA :) |
| 23:44.05 | morrildl | davidw: hmm, so you want to munge .apk files. |
| 23:44.11 | davidw | from within the device would be quite cool though |
| 23:44.14 | davidw | morrildl, yeah |
| 23:44.26 | morrildl | jasta: probably just because it was a particularly efficient way to do it |
| 23:44.35 | morrildl | or at least hte most efficient we could think of :) |
| 23:44.36 | davidw | like I said, it's not an immediate, big problem, but it's on the radar |
| 23:44.41 | morrildl | david |
| 23:44.47 | morrildl | davidw: hmm, okay |
| 23:44.54 | morrildl | it would help if yo uentered that as an issue in the Issue Tracker |
| 23:44.58 | davidw | sure |
| 23:45.03 | morrildl | then I can get into the internal system and harass people about it :) |
| 23:46.32 | davidw | ok, cool, thanks |
| 23:46.51 | jasta | morrildl: WBXML was designed to be efficient in terms of size. One of the advantages is that applications can describe a string table in their specification. |
| 23:47.14 | jasta | so that it is XML, but the transport contains no string XML tag literals. |
| 23:47.14 | morrildl | jasta: android's format is designed to be efficient to read |
| 23:47.31 | jasta | morrildl: Yes, obviously ;) |
| 23:47.36 | morrildl | :) |
| 23:47.43 | jasta | I'm just explaining what WBXML was, since you did not know and I feel like you should :) |
| 23:47.47 | morrildl | ahh |
| 23:47.49 | morrildl | okay then :) |
| 23:47.57 | jasta | hehe |
| 23:48.12 | jasta | I am using WBXML (with SyncML) in my ADC application. |
| 23:48.15 | morrildl | what is the format? |
| 23:48.25 | jasta | and i have, unfortunately, had to implement most of it myself. |
| 23:48.43 | jasta | the state of SyncML client libraries (in any language) is a sad state of affairs. |
| 23:48.46 | morrildl | meaning, I assume it's not just <0x2a 0x42="foo"/> |
| 23:49.21 | morrildl | is it like zero-delimited or something? |
| 23:49.27 | morrildl | or is it mixed ascii and binary or something? |
| 23:49.41 | jasta | morrildl: Well it's not text, but that is in the spirit of how it was designed. There is/can be a string table preceding the document, which maps integer values to the tags and attributes. |
| 23:50.11 | jasta | morrildl: It's mostly all size-delimited, IIRC. Maybe it's NUL, though. |
| 23:50.45 | morrildl | ahh |
| 23:50.50 | jasta | The cool thing, like I said, is that specific applications defining documents in WBXML can, as part of their specification, include the literal integers for the string table so that it need not be communicated. |
| 23:51.13 | morrildl | you mean in the DTD? |
| 23:51.30 | jasta | Not precisely, but yes basically. |
| 23:51.52 | morrildl | cool |
| 23:51.55 | davidw | uh oh... |
| 23:52.19 | davidw | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:52.52 | jasta | wbxml was defined by OMA, though, and is backed by the big guys. Motorola, Nokia, etc. |
| 23:54.26 | davidw | well that puts a damper on things |
| 23:55.19 | jasta | morrildl: The submission guidelines for the ADC seem to suggest you only need to provide an APK, is that true? Source code is not necessary? |
| 23:55.27 | morrildl | jasta: correct |
| 23:55.35 | morrildl | of course your app has to run against one of the public SDKs |
| 23:56.25 | jasta | Hmm, I have a server component which is written in C, that is very much so a part of my submission. I would prefer to distribute that with only source, to be compiled by the judge. |
| 23:56.30 | jasta | Is that sort of a no-no? |
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| 23:57.04 | davidw | jasta, why not just put it on a public server? |
| 23:57.31 | jasta | Well, because that would be a copyright violation in the United States :) |
| 23:57.49 | jasta | I'd prefer my application not be illegal for Google to use. |
| 23:58.25 | duey | ? |
| 23:58.36 | duey | gpl'd? |
| 23:59.16 | jasta | My application is a media synchronization library and accompanying music player. It is designed to let you synchronize meta data and stream content from a hosting server, e.g. your home computer. |
| 23:59.35 | davidw | find some public domain music to put on it to start people out with |
| 23:59.41 | jasta | So, if I provided my server, and my content, in order to judge the application they would need to copy the music I have on my machine. |