| 00:01.28 | *** join/#android BlackBsd (n=brian@72.168.193.117) |
| 00:08.30 | *** join/#android skicso1 (n=Mike_Mac@pool-96-234-164-211.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) |
| 00:14.14 | *** join/#android BlackBsd (n=brian@72.168.193.117) |
| 00:35.20 | *** part/#android skicso1 (n=Mike_Mac@pool-96-234-164-211.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) |
| 00:35.35 | *** join/#android cypromis_ (n=michalbi@e179131141.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 00:46.06 | *** join/#android aksyn (n=aksyn@78-86-127-219.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 01:04.37 | *** join/#android aksyn_ (n=aksyn@78-86-127-220.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 01:25.37 | *** join/#android ApplePedlar (n=ApplePed@58x158x182x50.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) |
| 01:28.06 | *** join/#android vbabiy (n=vbabiy@pool-71-244-118-158.albyny.fios.verizon.net) |
| 01:40.33 | *** join/#android matt_c (n=mcroydon@137.147.45.66.cm.sunflower.com) |
| 01:43.50 | *** join/#android The_PHP_Jedi (n=ThePHPJe@66-50-196-237.prtc.net) |
| 01:47.31 | *** join/#android cypromis (n=michalbi@e179131115.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 02:06.30 | *** join/#android ubuntu_user (n=ubuntu_u@ip68-0-73-101.tu.ok.cox.net) |
| 02:32.26 | *** join/#android massiverobot (n=dillera@c-68-81-156-103.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 02:47.07 | *** join/#android arikfr (n=User@bzq-84-108-21-184.cablep.bezeqint.net) |
| 03:47.10 | *** join/#android Zoolooc (n=fredsiba@nrbg-4dbfaf40.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 04:14.01 | *** join/#android cypromis_ (n=michalbi@e179139168.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 04:39.24 | *** join/#android duey (n=dueynz@203.96.223.40) |
| 04:54.54 | *** join/#android trivex (n=trivex@CPE00112f8785ab-CM000f9f50281e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 05:10.16 | *** join/#android trivex` (n=trivex@CPE00112f8785ab-CM000f9f50281e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 05:14.30 | *** join/#android trivex (n=trivex@CPE00112f8785ab-CM000f9f50281e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 05:19.43 | *** join/#android eton (n=eton@ppp-58-8-240-68.revip2.asianet.co.th) |
| 05:45.16 | *** join/#android eton (n=eton@ppp-58-8-240-68.revip2.asianet.co.th) |
| 06:32.48 | *** join/#android matt_c (n=mcroydon@137.147.45.66.cm.sunflower.com) |
| 06:54.31 | *** join/#android Yeggstry (n=mind@cpc1-rdng14-0-0-cust946.winn.cable.ntl.com) |
| 07:37.13 | *** join/#android rch850 (n=rch850@c220090.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) |
| 07:42.06 | *** join/#android mypapit (n=mypapit@pdpc/supporter/active/mypapit) |
| 07:42.46 | *** join/#android davidw (n=davidw@212.186.16.224) |
| 07:44.26 | *** join/#android trivex` (n=trivex@CPE00112f8785ab-CM000f9f50281e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 07:45.38 | *** join/#android romainguy__ (n=gfx@72.14.224.1) |
| 07:46.29 | *** join/#android DanU (n=uler3161@70-41-230-162.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 07:48.01 | *** join/#android Dan_U (n=uler3161@70-41-230-162.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 08:05.00 | *** join/#android unumm (n=elpresid@91.65.203.12) |
| 08:16.26 | *** join/#android rch850_ (n=rch850@c220090.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) |
| 08:19.36 | *** join/#android mike1o (n=mike@host207-205-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 08:37.56 | *** join/#android jtoy (n=jtoy@125.31.234.92) |
| 08:41.27 | *** join/#android rch850 (n=rch850@c220090.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) |
| 08:43.06 | *** join/#android eton_ (n=eton@ppp-58-8-240-68.revip2.asianet.co.th) |
| 08:49.13 | *** join/#android cutmasta (n=cutmasta@62.225.134.181) |
| 09:00.14 | *** join/#android ArteK_ (i=ArteK@82.177.19.205) |
| 09:09.28 | *** join/#android unumm (n=unumm@wvpn074.vpn.uni-wuerzburg.de) |
| 09:16.25 | *** join/#android cybereagle (i=CyberEag@unaffiliated/cybereagle) |
| 09:23.20 | *** join/#android soulreaper (i=soul@p4FCE610E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:39.16 | *** join/#android romainguy (i=romaingu@adsl-75-36-214-119.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 11:15.33 | *** join/#android unumm (n=elpresid@91.65.203.12) |
| 11:48.42 | *** join/#android d3ce1t (n=srg@144.Red-88-2-126.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 12:20.46 | *** join/#android ArteK (i=ArteK@82.177.19.205) |
| 12:25.45 | *** join/#android ArteK_ (i=ArteK@82.177.19.205) |
| 12:33.52 | *** join/#android ArteK (i=ArteK@82.177.19.205) |
| 13:00.00 | *** join/#android ArteK (n=Artur@82.177.19.205) |
| 13:06.50 | *** join/#android skicson (n=Mike_Mac@pool-96-234-164-211.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) |
| 13:14.00 | *** join/#android vbabiy (n=vbabiy@pool-71-244-118-158.albyny.fios.verizon.net) |
| 13:17.16 | *** join/#android ArteK (i=ArteK@82.177.19.205) |
| 13:29.27 | *** join/#android matt_c (n=mcroydon@137.147.45.66.cm.sunflower.com) |
| 13:30.33 | *** part/#android skicson (n=Mike_Mac@pool-96-234-164-211.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) |
| 13:35.42 | *** join/#android arikfr (n=User@87.68.64.171.cable.012.net.il) |
| 13:36.55 | *** join/#android ArteK_ (n=Artur@82.177.19.205) |
| 13:38.17 | *** join/#android skicson (n=Mike_Mac@pool-96-234-164-211.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) |
| 13:38.50 | skicson | offtopic but, wow. $MSFT makes bid for Yahoo |
| 13:41.53 | davidw | yeah |
| 13:42.45 | SUPERMARION | skicson, they recognized that they need better advertising and search software :) |
| 13:43.02 | davidw | Yahoo's doing some good open source stuff as of late...hadoop, lucene and so on |
| 13:43.13 | davidw | It would be unfortunate for that to come to an end |
| 13:45.08 | skicson | i don't see integration between those companies going smoothly |
| 13:46.58 | davidw | nope |
| 13:47.02 | davidw | not at all |
| 13:48.31 | SUPERMARION | the shares price increased about 60% |
| 13:48.34 | SUPERMARION | :) |
| 13:51.16 | skicson | davidw: lol, been there |
| 14:14.24 | cybereagle | or a big 'lay-zer' |
| 14:26.00 | *** join/#android soulreaper_ (i=soul@p4FCE6067.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:28.28 | *** join/#android mypapit (n=mypapit@pdpc/supporter/active/mypapit) |
| 14:54.50 | *** join/#android michaelnovakjr (n=mnovack@204.141.14.156) |
| 15:03.51 | *** join/#android zhobbs (n=zach@19.234.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 15:07.00 | *** join/#android matt_c (n=mcroydon@gozur.sunflowerbroadband.com) |
| 15:14.45 | *** join/#android aksyn (n=aksyn@78.151.160.146) |
| 15:27.01 | *** join/#android Essington (n=Essingto@unaffiliated/essington) |
| 15:43.33 | *** join/#android arikfr (n=User@84.94.134.108.cable.012.net.il) |
| 15:49.14 | *** join/#android Zer0Her0 (n=Z@cpe-74-76-236-101.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 15:58.11 | *** join/#android ubuntu_user (n=ubuntu_u@ip68-0-73-101.tu.ok.cox.net) |
| 16:06.49 | *** join/#android unumm (n=elpresid@91.65.203.12) |
| 16:33.59 | *** join/#android TimRiker (n=timr@70.1.12.137) |
| 16:43.33 | michaelnovakjr | RIP yahoo |
| 16:43.44 | Zer0Her0 | hehe |
| 16:44.07 | zhobbs | yep |
| 16:44.11 | michaelnovakjr | they can't pass that up.... the 22 billion in cash is more than they are worth |
| 16:47.06 | zhobbs | that's a lotta money |
| 16:48.13 | michaelnovakjr | oh ye |
| 16:48.14 | michaelnovakjr | a |
| 17:00.31 | *** join/#android Dan_U (n=uler3161@70-41-230-162.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 17:04.06 | jasta | michaelnovakjr: This looks strategic. I think Microsoft is scared that such a transaction would not be approved by the soon-to-be new US administration. |
| 17:05.29 | michaelnovakjr | i think it would be approved jasta |
| 17:05.45 | jasta | yes, i think it will be right now. |
| 17:05.57 | jasta | but in 4 years, i suspect the political landscape might not be so friendly to Microsoft. |
| 17:06.05 | jasta | err, 2-4 years :) |
| 17:06.41 | michaelnovakjr | true jasta, but don't forget that this wouldn't be a monopoly because Google is a far better producing competitor than Microsoft/Yahoo could ever be |
| 17:07.11 | michaelnovakjr | so it doesn't seem unfair to anyone but Microsoft and Yahoo ;) |
| 17:07.24 | jasta | true. |
| 17:07.36 | michaelnovakjr | dont forget Yahoo runs PHP..... we all know Microsoft's take on using Open Source |
| 17:09.40 | *** join/#android romainguy (n=gfx@72.14.224.1) |
| 17:09.55 | zhobbs | hey romainguy |
| 17:10.05 | romainguy | hey |
| 17:10.29 | zhobbs | you have any idea if streaming media will work in the coming sdk release? |
| 17:11.19 | romainguy | I have no idea, sorry |
| 17:11.45 | zhobbs | no problem..just trying to plan some features... |
| 17:26.18 | *** join/#android winksaville (n=chatzill@70.91.206.233) |
| 17:28.20 | *** join/#android vbabiy (n=vbabiy@pool-71-244-118-158.albyny.fios.verizon.net) |
| 17:29.21 | *** join/#android Zoolooc (n=fredsiba@nrbg-4dbfaf40.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 17:33.04 | jasta | zhobbs: streaming media is not supported? i thought you could hook right into the AudioInputStream or whatever. |
| 17:33.28 | zhobbs | jasta, I didn't think anyone's gotten streaming video working |
| 17:33.37 | jasta | oh. |
| 17:33.46 | jasta | my app is going to depend on streaming audio, i certainly hope that works. |
| 17:34.00 | zhobbs | might want to check on that... |
| 17:34.02 | michaelnovakjr | haha, jasta that would not be cool |
| 17:47.39 | zhobbs | this is a media player that saves the stream to disk then plays...but that's pretty weak: |
| 17:47.39 | zhobbs | http://davanum.wordpress.com/2007/12/29/android-videomusic-player-sample-from-local-disk-as-well-as-remote-urls/ |
| 17:51.10 | *** join/#android ubuntu_user (n=ubuntu_u@ip68-0-73-101.tu.ok.cox.net) |
| 17:51.44 | *** join/#android aksyn (n=aksyn@78-86-127-220.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 17:52.57 | winksaville | It's my understanding that Android can only play from a "file", hence I've added issue #83 |
| 17:53.17 | zhobbs | yeah, I hope that's fixed in this sdk coming out |
| 18:02.34 | xbit | and rtsp streams :) |
| 18:06.44 | zhobbs | xbit, you know if rtsp video works? |
| 18:07.36 | xbit | no it doesn't iirc |
| 18:27.11 | michaelnovakjr | question: are there limitations to what parts of java you can use with android? |
| 18:27.19 | michaelnovakjr | any java libs that don't work with it? |
| 18:33.07 | davidw | awt |
| 18:33.09 | davidw | obviously |
| 18:33.50 | michaelnovakjr | what about JavaMail? |
| 18:38.26 | michaelnovakjr | ? |
| 18:39.19 | michaelnovakjr | what does Lede mean? |
| 18:40.08 | jasta | michaelnovakjr: He means that most people who write Java code disregard efficiency and write bloated monstrotities. |
| 18:40.12 | jasta | monstrosities* |
| 18:40.25 | jasta | so just plugging those jar files into Android code would be disasterous. |
| 18:40.39 | michaelnovakjr | so he is implying that JavaMail is one of them? |
| 18:40.41 | *** join/#android a1i_ (n=a1i@p5080D582.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:40.56 | jasta | obviously, Android will run on platforms that are at least 1 order of magnitude slower than the target platform. |
| 18:41.10 | romainguy_ | michaelnovakjr: Java Mail is huge for a mobile device |
| 18:42.24 | jasta | In that way, Android kind of defeats code reusability. But perhaps this will encourage a small uprising in efficient and light-weight Java libraries |
| 18:42.28 | jasta | That would certainly be a nice blessing :) |
| 18:43.09 | michaelnovakjr | true |
| 18:43.31 | michaelnovakjr | what does gmail use for a mobile mail lib? anyone know? |
| 18:43.32 | *** part/#android Essington (n=Essingto@unaffiliated/essington) |
| 18:43.38 | jasta | Maybe then we'd get fewer people complaining that Java is slow compard to <insert language here>. Java's fine, it's the brain-damaged programmers that are writing code for it that are the bigger problem :) |
| 18:43.42 | zhobbs | in house stuff I bet |
| 18:44.13 | jasta | michaelnovakjr: E-mail protocols, btw, are quite simple. However, GMail probably doesn't use IMAP/SMTP, it must use some special GMail communication. |
| 18:44.19 | zhobbs | ohh geez...statements like that can start wars |
| 18:44.40 | *** join/#android rorist (n=rorist@200-52.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 18:45.18 | jasta | zhobbs: Fire away :) |
| 18:46.41 | michaelnovakjr | its programmers in general |
| 18:46.51 | michaelnovakjr | some people just can't write good code |
| 18:47.12 | davidw | so why do they all take up java? ;-P |
| 18:47.22 | davidw | ...kidding... |
| 18:47.32 | michaelnovakjr | because it can be easier than for instance C++ |
| 18:47.42 | davidw | the PHP camp has claimed its fair share too (ok, I'll stop:-) |
| 18:47.48 | michaelnovakjr | haha |
| 18:47.49 | zhobbs | changing business requirements can cause some pretty bad code |
| 18:48.11 | michaelnovakjr | possibly, depending on the programmer |
| 18:48.36 | michaelnovakjr | also, tell me why do people program without unit testing still? |
| 18:48.38 | davidw | I've actually enjoyed J2ME stuff, because...yeah, it forces people to not monkey around |
| 18:49.15 | xbit | because unit testing is overrated shit' |
| 18:49.24 | xbit | i guess |
| 18:49.26 | michaelnovakjr | huh? |
| 18:49.38 | michaelnovakjr | are you kidding? |
| 18:49.57 | xbit | yes and no |
| 18:50.14 | michaelnovakjr | if it is done right, it can make your code a lot more stable |
| 18:50.30 | michaelnovakjr | anytime my projects go out to QA, the results are not nearly as crazy as some others |
| 18:50.59 | xbit | maybe |
| 18:51.12 | davidw | automated testing is a good thing |
| 18:51.16 | xbit | sure |
| 18:51.23 | davidw | I don't always add it until I'm done exploring though |
| 18:51.25 | romainguy_ | davidw: but it can be very hard depending on what you're trying to test |
| 18:51.28 | xbit | but it doesn't have to be unit testing |
| 18:51.36 | romainguy_ | testing a UI toolkit for instance... :)) |
| 18:51.41 | xbit | unit testing can only tell you so much |
| 18:51.53 | michaelnovakjr | of course |
| 18:52.08 | michaelnovakjr | but it saves the really dumb bugs from coming back to you from QA |
| 18:52.09 | davidw | romainguy_, http://wiki.tcl.tk/1691 <- you guys stole their name:-) |
| 18:52.35 | michaelnovakjr | haha |
| 18:52.48 | xbit | it hasn't saved me, yet |
| 18:53.19 | michaelnovakjr | dusting off that website.. tcl/tk??? does anyone use that anymore? |
| 18:54.10 | xbit | eggdrop? well, tcl at least ;) |
| 18:54.15 | davidw | michaelnovakjr, sure |
| 18:54.30 | davidw | Tcl got a lot of things right a long time ago |
| 18:54.44 | michaelnovakjr | my previous job used Tcl and I hated it with a passion |
| 18:54.58 | davidw | a lot of people never really figured it out |
| 18:55.21 | michaelnovakjr | true, it just didn't feel right to me |
| 18:55.26 | jasta | I've never worked with Tcl, but a language whose acronym can be pronouncd "tickle" can only go so far :) |
| 18:55.30 | michaelnovakjr | but then again this was a web environment |
| 18:55.34 | davidw | it's *different* from Java/Python/C/Ruby/etc... |
| 18:55.38 | michaelnovakjr | haha |
| 18:55.40 | michaelnovakjr | yea |
| 18:56.12 | romainguy_ | Argh |
| 18:56.21 | romainguy_ | especially Tk |
| 18:56.42 | davidw | how so? |
| 18:57.10 | davidw | I think *the* problem with Tk was that it made gui programming easy for a lot of people with no clue about how to make a gui, let alone a nice one |
| 18:57.20 | davidw | sort of like the 'php problem' with the web... |
| 18:57.34 | davidw | thus garnering it a bad reputation |
| 18:57.38 | romainguy_ | davidw: I just hated the language and the APIs |
| 18:57.52 | romainguy_ | davidw: and Hecl reminds me of it :)) |
| 18:58.26 | davidw | Hecl is similar to Tcl because if you want to do a very small footprint interpreter, that's a pretty good path to follow |
| 18:59.03 | davidw | it's different in some ways though...which makes it a lot more fun |
| 18:59.29 | davidw | I got a socket-based remote shell for Android apps working... I'll have to polish it up and post it this weekend |
| 19:00.37 | davidw | I think you have to have read Tcl's C code, or have a similar low level understanding to start appreciating it |
| 19:01.18 | romainguy_ | Somehow I find it wrong if you need to understand a language's implementation to appreciate it :) |
| 19:02.10 | davidw | well... maybe not quite that far, but there's an elegance to it that's perhaps more obvious once you 'get it' |
| 19:02.51 | davidw | if you're ingrained in the C/Python/Java/etc... tradition and try and bring that to Tcl, you struggle |
| 19:03.09 | romainguy_ | actually... |
| 19:03.09 | davidw | which probably means a lot of people struggle with it |
| 19:03.15 | romainguy_ | Tcl is the first language I learned |
| 19:03.31 | zhobbs | I haven't messed with tcl at all, but when I looked at hecl my head hurt |
| 19:04.05 | zhobbs | as you said though, I grew up on c-type languages |
| 19:04.25 | davidw | zhobbs, what about it? |
| 19:05.18 | davidw | romainguy_, there are definitely things about Tcl that I don't like, but I think I can safely say that for any language I've used, and it's had a good run for something originally built in the late '80ies |
| 19:05.42 | romainguy_ | davidw: sure, why not. I'm just saying that *I* don't like it |
| 19:06.21 | davidw | anything in particular? |
| 19:07.26 | davidw | I think Tcl's great, so I'm very curious about why it wasn't as successful as it could have been... I've learned a lot looking into it |
| 19:09.54 | davidw | If you take the attitude that the technology is pretty good despite its faults, it leads you to people issues. The easy out which you get from some fans of less popular languages is some variant of "people are just to stupid to get it", but I don't buy that either. |
| 19:10.45 | romainguy_ | davidw: Oh yeah that "people are just to stupid to get it" is what drives Factor for instance |
| 19:10.57 | davidw | ahahahhahahaha:-) |
| 19:11.06 | romainguy_ | (another language that looks really powerful but which just makes me want to die when I try to read a sample code) |
| 19:11.12 | davidw | that guy is the owner of a grade A, class 1 attitude, IMO |
| 19:11.18 | romainguy_ | yeah :) |
| 19:11.24 | romainguy_ | I worked a bit with him back in the old days |
| 19:11.29 | romainguy_ | when he was writing jEdit |
| 19:12.27 | davidw | I think stack based languages are basically insane for practical work... I mean, I want a compiler or interpreter to take care of parameters instead of having to do it in my head. I think learning forth is probably educational/mind bending though |
| 19:12.33 | zhobbs | factor looks like RPN programming |
| 19:12.40 | romainguy_ | zhobbs: it is |
| 19:12.44 | romainguy_ | (in part) |
| 19:13.04 | zhobbs | yeah, used to write little scripts like for my hp calc...helps on tests |
| 19:13.06 | romainguy_ | davidw: you know there's something wrong when you have to put a comment on each word to explain what are the in and out stack effects :) |
| 19:14.34 | davidw | Tcl and perhaps in some ways more so Hecl are (very vaguely) Lisp like things without the 'fancy language aspects' and with fewer parenthesis |
| 19:15.06 | davidw | Tcl revolves around string representations of things, which sort of hurts it in some ways, and is something we've moved away from with Hecl |
| 19:15.43 | davidw | although the old thing about Tcl containing all values only as strings internally hasn't been true in something like 10 years |
| 19:18.35 | davidw | something I found funny a year or two back when I started doing a lot of Ruby was how a lot of things Tcl gets very right (i18n, threads) are missing in Ruby, and despite that it still managed to make a big leap in popularity |
| 19:19.26 | xbit | i guess tcl didn't have rails |
| 19:20.03 | *** join/#android Yeggstry (n=mind@cpc1-rdng14-0-0-cust946.winn.cable.ntl.com) |
| 19:20.49 | davidw | xbit, right. It had Tk, but they let that rot for too long |
| 19:21.16 | romainguy_ | well Python shipped (ships?) with Tk |
| 19:21.45 | davidw | I had a friend who worked at scriptics who tried to convince them that Qt and Gtk were the coming thing, and they ignored him |
| 19:22.14 | davidw | it's still one of the best ways of doing x-platform guis |
| 19:22.28 | davidw | especially with 'tile', which is finally a concerted effort to make it look good again |
| 19:24.09 | davidw | I think part of the problem with the whole enterprise was JO getting rich and bailing out on the whole thing - the resulting group of guys running it are very bright engineers, but I think that languages either need to be big, stable corporate things (Java), or run by one guy with a "Vision" |
| 19:24.31 | davidw | (or lots of visions, in the case of Larry Wall?:-) |
| 19:31.30 | *** join/#android pombreda (n=pombreda@144.189.5.201) |
| 19:50.41 | jasta | davidw: You know, C was built in the early 80's and I would say it has had a much more impressive run than Tcl :) |
| 19:51.22 | jasta | Especially considering that it was invented primarily to write UNIX and nothing else. |
| 19:51.41 | davidw | C dates to 1972 |
| 19:51.47 | davidw | according to wikipedia |
| 19:52.54 | davidw | C has had a more impressive run than anything else out there, although Fortran beets it for longevity |
| 19:53.10 | davidw | (so does lisp, but it's never really been all that popular) |
| 19:56.17 | davidw | beets/beats |
| 20:12.22 | *** join/#android romainguy (n=gfx@216.239.45.19) |
| 20:14.28 | *** join/#android romainguy__ (n=gfx@nat/google/x-00bc40535a20cf63) |
| 20:15.42 | michaelnovakjr | c is great |
| 20:17.22 | davidw | I like it a lot, I just never have any reason to use it these days |
| 20:19.17 | zhobbs | I like c, I want to get an embedded systems job...I need to get a job... |
| 20:19.17 | *** join/#android monster_ (n=monster_@static-76-160-17-34.dsl.cavtel.net) |
| 20:19.25 | *** part/#android monster_ (n=monster_@static-76-160-17-34.dsl.cavtel.net) |
| 20:20.40 | davidw | I was headed in that direction at one point |
| 20:21.13 | davidw | there's just so much more out there in terms of other fields, though |
| 20:21.22 | skicson | anybody know an easy way to tell if a particular activity is running? i could use a static in the Activity but...ick. |
| 20:21.28 | zhobbs | I just got my EE and paid for college with code so embedded might be the place for me |
| 20:22.05 | zhobbs | skicson, this might help: http://davanum.wordpress.com/2007/12/18/android-task-manager-primitive-prototype/ |
| 20:22.48 | skicson | zhobbs: cool, thanks |
| 20:22.58 | davidw | zhobbs, sounds reasonable |
| 20:25.21 | davidw | man, I hate the alphabet soup syndrome in the java world: http://www.infoworld.com/article/08/01/23/Google-Android-leaves-Sun-wondering_1.html |
| 20:46.15 | jasta | what's the alphabet soup syndrome? |
| 20:46.27 | *** join/#android The_PHP_Jedi (n=ThePHPJe@66-50-196-237.prtc.net) |
| 20:46.53 | jasta | skicson: Your activity is in the foreground if a call to onStart() was made and no call to onStop or Freeze. |
| 20:47.15 | jasta | skicson: You should track your own status if that matters to you, in other words. |
| 20:47.24 | jasta | don't rely on the ActivityManager to do it for you. |
| 20:47.53 | jasta | also, if you mean running as your process is alive, then that should be obvious to you what the problem is :) |
| 20:51.07 | davidw | jasta, too many acronyms |
| 20:52.40 | *** join/#android Cpudan80 (n=Dan@about/windows/staff/Cpudan80) |
| 20:52.49 | Cpudan80 | Hello all |
| 20:53.03 | Cpudan80 | I need some info about th android project... |
| 20:53.23 | Cpudan80 | Is it possible to simulate using the camera with the SDK? |
| 20:54.16 | Cpudan80 | Im on this team that is developing some image processing stuff -- and we want to push the app out to a phone, but we need a way to test how to interface with the phone (ie recall pictures, send them to our server for analysis, etc) |
| 20:54.43 | Cpudan80 | Since there is no "real" phone to mess with ---- how can we test functions (ie. the camera) |
| 20:55.09 | davidw | Cpudan80, look around...there are some ways to fake it |
| 20:55.20 | *** join/#android romainguy (n=gfx@nat/google/x-e11a8089ac852146) |
| 20:55.46 | Cpudan80 | davidw: Do you have a good reference point off hand... or? |
| 20:55.54 | davidw | www.google.com |
| 20:56.04 | Cpudan80 | Wonderful, thanks |
| 20:58.07 | jasta | davidw: oh yeah, i knew that. |
| 20:58.52 | davidw | jasta, in particular, the JSR thing drives me crazy... 82 123 67... just give it a name already |
| 21:03.49 | *** join/#android TimRiker (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 21:14.10 | jasta | davidw: Oh yeah, that's really pathetic. |
| 21:14.55 | jasta | but it does give it a nice descriptive way to refer to the API :) |
| 21:15.34 | davidw | nice if you are storing it in an array. For people, I don't think it's quite so good |
| 21:16.26 | jasta | no, i mean when you say "does this implement JSR-###?", nice and descriptive. |
| 21:16.27 | davidw | it forces you to do a lookup each time the thing is mentioned, and instantly loses people not in possession of a translation table in their own heads |
| 21:16.48 | jasta | still, it would be preferred to just name the APIs. |
| 21:16.55 | jasta | something that is also descriptive, but easier to remember :) |
| 21:17.11 | davidw | yeah, a just a word or two to give you a hint |
| 21:17.11 | jasta | Like Apache does. |
| 21:17.26 | davidw | 'bluetooth', '3d', that kind of thing |
| 21:18.07 | jasta | The Apache Foundation, btw, is an interesting thing. I can't for the life of me figure out how they managed to logically transition from an HTTP server into such heavy-weight Java facilities, but they have done it so masterfully. I am in awe. |
| 21:19.07 | jasta | The contribution they have made to the open source community is staggering. |
| 21:19.28 | jasta | Hell, Android would be nothing without them. |
| 21:19.34 | davidw | it's getting a bit big for my tastes, but those admittedly run to the...mmmm 'anarchic' for lack of a better and less loaded word |
| 21:20.19 | jasta | davidw: Nonsense, Apache is well managed and very well segregated. |
| 21:20.32 | jasta | Each project is clearly given careful thought to how it should, if at all, interact with any other piece. |
| 21:21.14 | davidw | I didn't say Apache was chaotic - quite the opposite. My preferences are for small and nimble |
| 21:21.50 | jasta | Oh, so you want chaos :) |
| 21:22.30 | *** join/#android cutmasta (n=cutmasta@ip-78-94-46-184.PH-1211F-BSR64K-03.ish.de) |
| 21:22.37 | davidw | there are definitely some hoops in the ASF these days... we/they try and keep them to a minimum, but it's sort of inevitable as an organization grows |
| 21:22.44 | cutmasta | dunno but JFYI |
| 21:22.46 | cutmasta | http://www.android-portal.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/androidlive.JPG |
| 21:22.48 | jasta | I'm not saying I'd like to go join them and start writing code under their umbrella (frankly, I despise the Apache License). I'm just saying that their contribution is great to enabling the penetration of open source. |
| 21:23.01 | davidw | jasta, that goes without saying |
| 21:23.25 | jasta | It impresses me, is all. I find it amazing that they transitioned from just a web server to this :) |
| 21:23.32 | davidw | cutmasta, I'd be more impressed if it were taken in front of that lake/those mountains ;-) |
| 21:23.44 | cutmasta | lol |
| 21:23.45 | cutmasta | hehe |
| 21:23.54 | jasta | cutmasta: that's pretty old news. |
| 21:23.54 | davidw | jasta, the governance structure and focus on community are good |
| 21:24.27 | jasta | davidw: Without Harmony, I doubt that Android would have even been possible. That is a massive project. I can hardly comprehend the task. |
| 21:24.46 | davidw | it has been impressive to watch |
| 21:24.55 | davidw | they've made progress very rapidly |
| 21:25.02 | davidw | part of that is the license, though |
| 21:25.12 | davidw | well... that it's BSD-like |
| 21:25.24 | davidw | Harmony got some contributions from places like IBM, IIRC |
| 21:25.48 | cutmasta | jasta, did not know thats old |
| 21:26.15 | jasta | Why does that depend on the license? The contributions were introduced upstream, and so the GPL would have been just as conducive. |
| 21:27.17 | davidw | jasta, corporations like BSD style for certain things because it means they can just take it and use it, no strings attached |
| 21:27.28 | davidw | smart corporations realize that they should give back in any case, forced to or not |
| 21:27.43 | jasta | davidw: Yes, I see your point. |
| 21:28.32 | davidw | if you are going to do a proprietary product one way or the other, you simply can't use GPL stuff. So if you can use some BSD code, all the better - and if you're smart, you'll give a little bit back |
| 21:28.38 | jasta | As a side note, I've heard rumors that Android uses a very old release of Harmony? |
| 21:28.46 | davidw | no idea:-) |
| 21:33.48 | jasta | Boy, this 700MHz thing is interesting to follow. |
| 21:34.03 | jasta | It really looks like Google may have bought it. |
| 21:34.08 | zhobbs | sounds like C block bidding might be over |
| 21:34.24 | zhobbs | it's hard to tell |
| 21:34.46 | zhobbs | If they did...that'd be huge news |
| 21:35.48 | zhobbs | I read some article somewhere that predicts if google does get it they'll trade it for some bandwidth in the higher regions which is better for wimax |
| 21:36.05 | jasta | zhobbs: Yes, it would be. Yeah, I heard that as well zhobbs. |
| 21:36.34 | zhobbs | wimax + voip |
| 21:37.39 | jasta | i can't wait to see who the high bidders were, and who won |
| 21:37.45 | jasta | that will be revealed in march, right? |
| 21:38.16 | zhobbs | It could happen sooner I think...once all of the auctions are done (inactive) |
| 21:38.19 | *** join/#android _ken (n=user@84.92.70.37) |
| 21:38.27 | zhobbs | not sure on that though |
| 21:39.26 | jasta | hmm, perhaps. |
| 21:40.12 | jasta | I'm very excited to for February :) |
| 21:40.18 | jasta | s/to // |
| 21:40.25 | jasta | Oh fuck that stupid bot. |
| 21:40.33 | zhobbs | worked by the bot |
| 21:40.39 | jasta | Can we please ban that thing? |
| 21:40.42 | zhobbs | :) |
| 21:40.56 | zhobbs | infobot, what else do you do? |
| 21:40.57 | infobot | ACTION else do you do to understand recursion, you must first understand recursion |
| 21:41.08 | jasta | s/^$/<-- stupid/ |
| 21:41.13 | jasta | damn ;P |
| 21:41.31 | zhobbs | hehe |
| 21:41.39 | jasta | oh, that wouldn't match anyway. my perlfu is weak these days. |
| 21:41.45 | jasta | s/^.*/<-- stupid/ |
| 21:41.53 | jasta | oh well ;) |
| 21:42.20 | jasta | I'm done playing now. But still, we should ban it. |
| 22:00.46 | Cpudan80 | Is there a way to decrease the size of the emulated phone? |
| 22:00.49 | Cpudan80 | It's too big |
| 22:03.09 | zhobbs | you can choose different screen sizes |
| 22:03.47 | zhobbs | in eclipse Run -> Open Run Dialog -> Emulator tab |
| 22:04.00 | zhobbs | or "emulator -skin QVGA-P" or something like that |
| 22:17.45 | *** join/#android duey (n=dueynz@203.96.223.40) |
| 22:19.35 | *** join/#android romainguy__ (n=gfx@216.239.45.19) |
| 22:20.41 | *** join/#android romainguy___ (n=gfx@216.239.45.19) |
| 22:39.51 | *** join/#android Dan_U (n=uler3161@70-41-230-162.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 22:41.51 | jasta | Cpudan80: you can also remove the skin completely, showing only the screen. |
| 22:42.08 | Cpudan80 | no I need the button |
| 22:42.10 | Cpudan80 | buttons* |
| 22:42.11 | jasta | to do so, specify -skin <skin-name-in-lowercase> |
| 22:42.15 | Cpudan80 | Yeah I fixed it |
| 22:42.16 | jasta | Cpudan80: Why do you need the buttons? |
| 22:42.35 | Cpudan80 | testing |
| 22:42.44 | jasta | Use the keyboard. |
| 22:42.50 | Cpudan80 | hrm.... |
| 22:42.51 | Cpudan80 | true |
| 22:42.52 | jasta | All of the buttons map to keys. |
| 22:43.15 | Cpudan80 | I really wish there was an easier way to get the camera to work |
| 22:43.37 | jasta | Anyway, you should note that the Android Developer Challenge will be judged solely using HVGA-P. |
| 22:44.02 | jasta | Cpudan80: Eventually there will be, of course. I'm certain they will provide better emulation of that moving forward. |
| 22:44.11 | Cpudan80 | Well I need it now |
| 22:44.32 | jasta | Well, there is a tool that can let you simulate the camera preview, but I don't know of its status. |
| 22:44.41 | Cpudan80 | Yeah I found one |
| 22:44.52 | Cpudan80 | See Im working on a group project |
| 22:44.56 | jasta | Great? |
| 22:45.18 | Cpudan80 | I havent tested it yet |
| 22:48.50 | jasta | K? |
| 22:48.52 | *** join/#android romainguy (n=gfx@216.239.45.19) |
| 22:50.05 | *** part/#android skicson (n=Mike_Mac@pool-96-234-164-211.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) |
| 22:52.34 | *** join/#android soulreaper_ (i=soul@p4FCE7718.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:53.53 | *** join/#android romainguy (n=gfx@216.239.45.19) |
| 23:17.24 | *** join/#android illustir (n=alper@s55912056.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 23:37.57 | *** join/#android massiverobot (n=dillera@c-68-81-156-103.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 23:41.48 | *** join/#android krau (n=cktakaha@189.70.16.210) |
