| 00:00.41 | rwhitby | zhobbs: thx |
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| 00:05.53 | jasta | i dont really like the new android UI. i was hoping they'd evolve the home screen a LOT more. |
| 00:06.34 | jasta | i like the home screen to have information just as much as program launchers. |
| 00:06.35 | zhobbs | have the widget styles changed at all? I haven't seen any standard dialogs, progress bars, etc |
| 00:06.41 | jasta | me neither |
| 00:07.01 | zhobbs | jasta: luckily you can replace the homescreen activity |
| 00:07.07 | jasta | yes, thank god :) |
| 00:08.09 | romainguy | jasta: what kind of information? |
| 00:08.26 | jasta | well, i really like facade for WM, for example. |
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| 00:09.01 | jasta | it has problems, and is overly cluttered, but i can see an obvious path to improve things with much greater real estate. |
| 00:09.35 | romainguy | jasta: what kind of information does it show? |
| 00:09.37 | jasta | having your schedule right there, easily accessible information like weather, news feed headlines, tasks, etc. |
| 00:09.45 | romainguy | ah |
| 00:09.46 | romainguy | I see |
| 00:09.50 | romainguy | I hate that kind of home screen :) |
| 00:10.03 | jasta | why? |
| 00:10.06 | f00f- | that's like iGoogle |
| 00:10.20 | f00f- | too much going on |
| 00:10.20 | zhobbs | that's why customization is great...no solution works for everyone |
| 00:10.24 | romainguy | jasta: because it usually shows way too much stuff |
| 00:10.31 | jasta | romainguy: well that's exactly what i just said. |
| 00:10.44 | jasta | facade is too cluttered, but the premise is not bad. they just didn't strike a balance. |
| 00:10.54 | romainguy | jasta: but I also don't want to customize my software ^^ |
| 00:11.02 | jasta | having just a short recap of your schedule is the most important, i feel. |
| 00:11.09 | stifffff | rwhitby : http://www.pointgphone.com/mwc-2008-e28-android-phone-video-493 |
| 00:11.33 | f00f- | use a schedule app? |
| 00:11.33 | f00f- | well a summary like Symbian has right |
| 00:11.33 | f00f- | shows upcoming todos/meetings/X for this day |
| 00:11.33 | jasta | romainguy: i didn't say it was a function of customization. facade packs too much information, but again, the idea is sound. |
| 00:11.33 | f00f- | on home screen if you desire |
| 00:11.56 | jasta | f00f-: Yes, like that. It is also nice since these interfaces serve as program launchers in themselves. |
| 00:12.04 | jasta | you can click on the calendar widget, or a specific item, for example |
| 00:12.41 | jasta | it also makes the experience seem more cohesive. i hate the standard Windows Mobile UI because it just doesn't do anything useful. |
| 00:12.50 | f00f- | yea, placing arbitrary widgets on the home screen like MiniActivities might be intriguing |
| 00:13.34 | jasta | i can understand the argument for smaller form factor devices |
| 00:13.47 | jasta | but for the HVGA-P skin, that is just a waste. |
| 00:14.12 | jasta | i mean, you might as well at least scale the size of the buttons so that it covers the maximum real estate so that fat fingered people can still use it. |
| 00:15.43 | f00f- | it's all about the market |
| 00:16.24 | jasta | i doubt that Google is thinking so narrowly. |
| 00:16.48 | jasta | the current market has a lot of low hanging fruit. it makes sense to take it. |
| 00:17.22 | jasta | that said, the current market for these devices is largely business users; sales types, etc. they all have fat fingers :) |
| 00:18.11 | f00f- | google's not making the phones, OHA hw guys are |
| 00:18.29 | f00f- | it's like the s60 concept but on larger scale |
| 00:18.35 | jasta | Sure, but what have we all learned from Windows Mobile? |
| 00:19.15 | jasta | OEMs dont innovate far beyon the stock Windows Mobile experience, despite users largely screaming that it sucks and should be improved. |
| 00:19.44 | f00f- | you're talking about software innovation, true |
| 00:19.47 | jasta | The calendar app is primitive and bad, there is no usable alarm application standard on the platform, etc. |
| 00:19.58 | f00f- | but they're OEMs, they dont have to modify the sw that runs on them |
| 00:20.05 | jasta | Google should not fall into that same boat, assuming that innovation happens after what they ship. |
| 00:20.37 | f00f- | well all of the builtin android apps (i see today) are useless with regard to UI |
| 00:20.41 | jasta | They need to provide something that is complete, and can be recommended for installation on a handset "as-is", and it should try to capture as much of the untapped market as possible. |
| 00:20.50 | f00f- | they don't feel inviting imho |
| 00:20.56 | jasta | That means it has to be flexible to different form factors and accessible to more people. |
| 00:21.10 | f00f- | yeah, a qwerty phone is a business phone |
| 00:21.20 | f00f- | without business apps bundled with it, it's useless |
| 00:21.26 | f00f- | but those apps can be bundled by the OEMs |
| 00:21.32 | jasta | You aren't listening to me. |
| 00:21.45 | jasta | The reality of OEMs modifying the product or adding value to it is very low. |
| 00:21.51 | f00f- | exactly! |
| 00:21.55 | jasta | The probability, I mean. |
| 00:22.35 | jasta | What do you mean exactly? You seem to be arguing the opposite point. |
| 00:23.12 | f00f- | OEMs are not going to modify software, they're going to do hardware innovation |
| 00:23.21 | f00f- | they'll take the best OS implementation for the intended device |
| 00:23.51 | jasta | That's hardly the point. Android is trying to build a platform that can potentially go anywhere. |
| 00:24.16 | jasta | Google is, rather :) |
| 00:24.19 | f00f- | a platform, but not a turnkey bundled OS package |
| 00:24.46 | f00f- | but i guess we have to wait a few months before we can see what they're really trying to do |
| 00:24.55 | jasta | Perhaps not, but if that's the case, this initiative will fail in the current market. |
| 00:25.14 | jasta | The current market is too lazy to see value in something that's only part of what they need. |
| 00:25.27 | jasta | Perhaps that's where the open source community can come in and kick ass. |
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| 00:27.16 | f00f- | they're probably banking on it, even |
| 00:27.44 | jasta | Well, I can't fault them for that. The open source community has traditionally been very good at that. |
| 00:28.13 | jasta | That is, slacking off all the politics of 3rd party vendors and just getting their hands dirty. |
| 00:36.40 | zhobbs | how can I get the height of an item in a ListView? |
| 00:39.19 | romainguy | zhobbs: getListView().getChildAt(...).getHeight() |
| 00:41.52 | f00f- | how can i make a TextView (inside a scrollview i guess) span to the bottom to fit the text |
| 00:41.58 | f00f- | i dont want to specify the layout_height |
| 00:42.10 | f00f- | since i wont know it until i get the text |
| 00:44.32 | zhobbs | thanks romainguy |
| 00:45.46 | zhobbs | f00f-: android:layout_height="wrap_content" ? |
| 00:47.18 | f00f- | zhobbs: thanks let me try it |
| 00:47.26 | f00f- | i've always done my layouts in code |
| 00:47.32 | f00f- | but i figure i should migrate to XML layouting |
| 00:47.45 | romainguy | You should avoid writing your GUIs with code |
| 00:48.06 | f00f- | yea, but somethings are done easier in code (android) than in XML |
| 00:48.11 | f00f- | the APIs are so warm and fuzzy :) |
| 00:48.30 | romainguy | Like what? |
| 00:49.06 | f00f- | custom views for example |
| 00:50.27 | zhobbs | I'm having a hard time working with RelativeLayouts and code |
| 00:51.20 | f00f- | RelativeLayout in code feels hackish: rl.leftMargin = 35; |
| 00:51.44 | f00f- | i'm probably doing it the wrong way |
| 00:51.55 | f00f- | can i say left of widgetX by 5px ? |
| 00:52.33 | zhobbs | yeah |
| 00:53.00 | zhobbs | you have to setup a RelativeLayout.LayoutParams |
| 00:53.26 | zhobbs | using addRule( LEFT_OF (or something), view ID) |
| 00:53.39 | zhobbs | then add padding on the right |
| 00:53.45 | f00f- | ah great, thanks! |
| 00:53.48 | zhobbs | but I can't get that to work very well |
| 00:53.53 | romainguy | zhobbs: or better yet, use margins |
| 00:55.16 | zhobbs | I was trying to setup a rule for toRight but couldn't get it to work |
| 00:56.11 | f00f- | romainguy: are XML layouts compiled to code or is placement done during run-time? |
| 00:56.41 | romainguy | how is that different? |
| 00:56.46 | romainguy | but XML layouts are not compiled to code |
| 00:57.10 | f00f- | would you say XML layouts are slightly slower to display then? |
| 00:57.30 | romainguy | No, because I never measured the difference |
| 00:57.36 | romainguy | but I highly doubt it's noticeable |
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| 00:57.49 | romainguy | And given all the extra features brought by the XML layout, I would not even think of not using them |
| 00:58.04 | romainguy | (support for screen resolutions, orientations, touch screen, non-touch screens, locale, etc.) |
| 00:59.25 | f00f- | one xml layout per screen resolution? |
| 00:59.34 | romainguy | if you want |
| 00:59.36 | zhobbs | romainguy: the getListView().getChildAt(...) gives NPE until after ListView is drawn...how can I know when the view is drawn? |
| 00:59.36 | romainguy | but you don't have to |
| 00:59.53 | f00f- | ideally, you have one XML layout that works everywhere -- don't know if it handles this? |
| 01:00.02 | romainguy | zhobbs: it will give you an NPE until the ListView is first laid out |
| 01:00.22 | romainguy | zhobbs: so at drawing time, after the first layout, you should have the information |
| 01:00.31 | romainguy | you can just add an if (getChildCount() > 0) |
| 01:01.02 | romainguy | f00f-: it can certainly do that but you might definitely want to tweak your layout based on the device capabilities |
| 01:02.14 | f00f- | romainguy: one .apk supports all devices. different XML layouts for different resolutions/capabs. ok |
| 01:02.23 | f00f- | that is a goal i mean |
| 01:02.30 | zhobbs | hmmm...so I need to make a custom listview that will alert me after onlayout...or maybe just have handlers keep trying until it works... |
| 01:03.01 | romainguy | zhobbs: not necessarily |
| 01:03.16 | romainguy | zhobbs: if you do a requestLayout() then post a Runnable that queries an item's height... |
| 01:03.31 | romainguy | another way would be to manually ask the adapter for a view and call measure() on it |
| 01:03.45 | romainguy | you could also use a hierarchy change listener to know when the first views are added to the listview |
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| 01:04.43 | zhobbs | Ahhh..I'll try OnHierarchyChangeListener...missed that |
| 01:07.45 | romainguy | zhobbs: but don't be surprised when you scroll a ListView, you'll get many hierarchy change events |
| 01:08.37 | zhobbs | ok, thats fine |
| 01:08.59 | zhobbs | this list is static with 3 items...I wish I could tell it "never scroll" |
| 01:09.51 | romainguy | how so? |
| 01:11.11 | zhobbs | well, the view is always big enough to display all items, so I'd rather have it locked down |
| 01:11.28 | romainguy | well then it will not scroll |
| 01:12.43 | zhobbs | well you can drag and scroll and if you setSelection(2) it will scroll (I know you said that will be fixed, so first might be fixed also) |
| 01:13.00 | romainguy | I said several times that both theses issues are fixed in the next SDK |
| 01:13.25 | zhobbs | ok cool |
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| 01:18.50 | f00f- | use the force, use the source |
| 01:18.52 | f00f- | or how did it go. |
| 01:18.59 | f00f- | *read |
| 01:28.45 | jasta | whoa sweet |
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| 01:30.05 | jasta | i got the ActivityManager stoned |
| 01:33.17 | zhobbs | jasta: what you mean? |
| 01:39.01 | jasta | http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=239 |
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| 01:57.30 | jasta | man, the android XML parser fucking sucks. |
| 01:57.37 | jasta | it craps out on all sorts of junk. |
| 01:58.00 | duey | writer better xml :p |
| 01:58.05 | umdk1d3 | lol |
| 01:58.19 | duey | i need to writer better england |
| 02:02.00 | jasta | duey: it croaks on valid XML. for example, any entity reference (", &, etc) |
| 02:02.08 | jasta | but also croaks on CDATA. |
| 02:02.11 | f00f- | cant seem to send XML over the XMPP data messaging even when it's escaped |
| 02:02.18 | jasta | so your hands are tied. you can't transmit, for example, an ampersand. |
| 02:02.39 | f00f- | maybe it needs some entity definitions |
| 02:02.51 | f00f- | you using the pull parser? |
| 02:03.06 | jasta | no, just the DOM stuff for now. |
| 02:03.28 | umdk1d3 | ive had it work find on & |
| 02:03.54 | f00f- | i thought all XML parsers are required to support 3 entities: & < and > |
| 02:04.28 | jasta | umdk1d3: What parser did you use? |
| 02:04.40 | jasta | f00f-: They are, their implementation sucks. |
| 02:04.43 | umdk1d3 | oh wait i handled it by using url-escaping %26 |
| 02:04.53 | umdk1d3 | jasta: lemme look |
| 02:04.59 | umdk1d3 | it handled both %26 and & |
| 02:05.25 | jasta | umdk1d3: I have code proving the bug I encountered: http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=225&q=reporter:jasta00&colspec=ID%20Type%20Version%20Security%20Status%20Owner%20Summary |
| 02:05.52 | umdk1d3 | import org.xmlpull.v1.XmlPullParser; |
| 02:05.56 | umdk1d3 | thats the one i used |
| 02:06.17 | jasta | ahh, well, i'm not. |
| 02:06.27 | f00f- | XPP |
| 02:06.30 | f00f- | i love it |
| 02:07.04 | jasta | perhaps i should switch, but it's hardly appropriate for what i'm doing. |
| 02:07.47 | f00f- | switch to what? |
| 02:08.24 | jasta | using the pull parser, assuming that the bug doesn't exist there. |
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| 02:28.49 | zhobbs | I'm having an issue where the background on my main activity just turns to the grey/white tiles after it launches a dialog, and the dialog launches a fullscreen activity which closes back to the dialog |
| 02:29.14 | zhobbs | if that makes any sense... |
| 02:29.17 | f00f- | maybe it's rebooting the app |
| 02:29.36 | f00f- | you mean like app-launch-tiles ? |
| 02:30.01 | zhobbs | like the transparency tiles in gimp/photoshop |
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| 02:30.54 | f00f- | i mean |
| 02:31.04 | f00f- | the tiles that appear when you launch your app in the emulator |
| 02:31.15 | f00f- | if you've ever seen them? |
| 02:31.22 | zhobbs | yeah, like those |
| 02:31.32 | zhobbs | it's probably supposed to do that so it doesn't have to redraw the activity that isn't focused |
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| 02:44.53 | romainguy | zhobbs: when you see the checker board, there's a bug :) |
| 02:46.48 | zhobbs | romainguy: ok, will report |
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| 03:05.19 | jasta | hmmm. |
| 03:05.21 | jasta | # ls |
| 03:05.21 | jasta | -rw-rw---- app_6 app_6 26624 2008-02-13 03:05 five.db |
| 03:06.51 | zhobbs | duplicates? |
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| 03:15.46 | jasta | yeah |
| 03:16.11 | jasta | i wonder if android creates temp files using trailing space characters or something? |
| 03:24.34 | jasta | yay, my program finally has a successful sync. |
| 03:25.09 | jasta | took like 5 minutes simulating 3G speeds, though. that's not good ;) |
| 03:25.35 | jasta | but there's a lot of room to improve. I'm using XML right now, even though the protocol I chose supports WBXML. Just didn't want to turn it on yet because it's harder to debug. |
| 03:26.13 | zhobbs | congrats |
| 03:31.53 | Kuja | grats |
| 03:32.04 | Kuja | I need to get back to my project so I can finish it by march |
| 03:33.53 | jasta | i'm planning to nearly rewrite every part of it after the initial deadline :) |
| 03:34.02 | jasta | i'm really cowboy coding on this thing |
| 03:34.11 | Kuja | Me too :-X |
| 03:34.46 | jasta | anyway, goin home |
| 03:34.48 | jasta | later folks |
| 03:36.33 | zhobbs | yeah, I can't say I'm planning my code out all that well either |
| 04:09.35 | zhobbs | you think I can create an SQL lite DB one time, then save the file into my /res/raw folder and copy it to my /data/data/<package>/databases/ the first time the app boots up? |
| 04:10.14 | zhobbs | or is there some kind of security/id numbers/ etc that would not allow the db file to be valid |
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| 04:40.35 | snoktruix | lumme |
| 04:40.43 | snoktruix | strike a light |
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| 04:58.49 | jasta | zhobbs: i think that it would work, but it might not be the best approach. |
| 04:59.17 | jasta | specifically, upgrades might not work very gracefully in that arrangement, and you'll waste a lot of space for a marginal performance gain at first startup. |
| 05:01.54 | jasta | as for security, i doubt it, however there does seem to be some extra magic that version controls your database if you use the database helper. |
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| 05:08.22 | romainguy___ | hmmm |
| 05:08.51 | romainguy___ | have you guys read the beginners newsgroup recently? |
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| 05:09.01 | jasta | i haven't ever read it, why? |
| 05:09.23 | romainguy___ | there are some interesting posts sometimes |
| 05:09.46 | jtoy | I read all the forums fairly often |
| 05:09.47 | jasta | I had assumed android-beginners would just be enthusiasts, no real developers. |
| 05:10.00 | jasta | romainguy___: what specifically, though? |
| 05:12.00 | romainguy___ | recent posts |
| 05:12.57 | jtoy | using an eeepc for android development doesnt sound too fun |
| 05:13.06 | jasta | i just glanced and didn't see anything of interest? |
| 05:16.03 | sushmu | may be just the level of activity is exciting to romain :) |
| 05:16.09 | jasta | maybe :) |
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| 05:16.25 | romainguy___ | just look harder :) |
| 05:16.39 | jasta | no. |
| 05:17.12 | jtoy | maybe romain is excited about 2gb of free storage |
| 05:17.20 | jasta | that's what i was wondering about. |
| 05:17.28 | romainguy___ | ah well, too bad for you guys |
| 05:17.43 | jasta | we're going to miss out on the limited offer. |
| 05:18.10 | jasta | seriously,w hat are you talking about? i went back quite a few pages and didn't see much threading at all |
| 05:18.22 | jasta | mostly just 1 or 2 message topics that are relatively short and uninformative |
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| 05:18.37 | romainguy___ | hey Jason |
| 05:18.49 | jasonchen | what's up, romain? |
| 05:18.56 | jtoy | romainguy: I hope you guys figure out some kind of api or way to allow applications to display screens or "widgets" when the phone is ringing (incoming call), from what i understand, its not possible yet |
| 05:18.59 | romainguy___ | Idling in the shuttle ) |
| 05:19.29 | romainguy___ | jtoy: What would you like to do with such an API? |
| 05:20.24 | jtoy | display some relavent info to the user regarding the incoming call |
| 05:21.48 | jtoy | so for a more concrete example: the number is checked against a database of spam numbers, and if its a spam number, then display the message, "this number may be a telemarketer according to spamdb.com" |
| 05:22.27 | romainguy___ | Oh I see |
| 05:22.55 | romainguy___ | well, file a feature request: http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/list :) |
| 05:23.38 | jtoy | but there is a lot more cool stuff you could do, I built some applications for a startup I used to work at that had some pretty tight integration with asterisk/webservices |
| 05:23.42 | jtoy | ok, thanks |
| 05:32.15 | romainguy___ | almost home |
| 05:32.17 | romainguy___ | see ya later |
| 05:45.16 | snoktruix | I made a Google maps stitcher thingy, makes big posters from google: http://www.jportsmouth.com/code/Stitch/stitch.html |
| 05:45.42 | jasta | that's cool :) |
| 05:46.31 | snoktruix | not enormously useful but fun |
| 05:47.17 | romainguy_ | re |
| 05:47.54 | jasonchen | snoktruix: neat |
| 05:48.08 | snoktruix | :) |
| 05:50.32 | zhobbs | snoktruix: that's pretty cool |
| 05:51.12 | snoktruix | cheers |
| 05:54.29 | zhobbs | jasta: I think romainguy_ was refering to the DB topic which was talking about exactly what I was talking about :) |
| 05:54.39 | romainguy_ | zhobbs: I doubt it :) |
| 05:55.08 | jasta | oh, well, that wasn't interesting all the same :) |
| 05:58.53 | jasta | romainguy_: how might i have a list which is allowed to grow as much vertically as it would like, but not necessarily take up the entire screen? |
| 05:59.14 | jasta | i want to basically position a view at the end of the list, without it being part of the list. |
| 05:59.51 | romainguy_ | height=0 weight=1 with the other view height=wrap_content |
| 06:00.20 | jasta | ahh, height=0 |
| 06:01.00 | zhobbs | for the listview? |
| 06:01.53 | romainguy_ | yes |
| 06:02.16 | romainguy_ | jasta: another height would work but height=0 goes through as faster code path |
| 06:02.24 | jasta | hmm. i set the listview layout_height="0px" layout_weight="1", and a textview immediately below it with layout_height="wrap_content", no weight, and it still shows at the very bottom of the screen. |
| 06:02.37 | romainguy_ | aah sorry |
| 06:02.42 | romainguy_ | I thought that's what you wanted |
| 06:02.55 | jasta | no, i want it to show at the bottom of the list, as though it was the last entry in the list. |
| 06:03.16 | romainguy_ | then the best thing to do is to set it as a footer in the list |
| 06:03.28 | jasta | lists have footers, eh? |
| 06:03.35 | romainguy_ | they support headers and footers |
| 06:03.42 | romainguy_ | if not in your SDK, in the next one :) |
| 06:04.03 | jasta | no, i see it. just never realized this existed. you guys really have to expand the API demos ;) |
| 06:04.21 | romainguy_ | Read the APIs :)) |
| 06:04.47 | zhobbs | there's still lots of api secrets out there |
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| 06:07.11 | jasta | romainguy_: how would i specify a view in XML and still use setFooterView()? |
| 06:07.32 | romainguy__ | put the view in another XML file |
| 06:07.39 | romainguy__ | inflate it in code, then call setFooterView() |
| 06:07.50 | romainguy__ | although we might have a way to do this in XML |
| 06:07.55 | romainguy__ | but I'm not sure |
| 06:08.03 | jasta | ahh, well, inflating views from XML is a mystery to us lowly mortals. |
| 06:08.15 | romainguy__ | it's pretty easy though |
| 06:08.51 | jasta | yeah? how do you? :) |
| 06:12.00 | romainguy__ | well, getViewInflate().inflate(R.layout.mylayout, aLayout, true, null); |
| 06:12.23 | romainguy__ | except in your case you'll want to use null, false, null |
| 06:12.27 | zhobbs | Nice...I'll have to remember that |
| 06:12.30 | romainguy__ | (for the last 3 parameters) |
| 06:13.12 | jasta | excellent. |
| 06:13.18 | romainguy__ | you can also obtain a ViewInflate object by calling getSystemService() on Activity |
| 06:13.25 | romainguy__ | or, if I remember, ViewInflate.from(myContext) |
| 06:15.00 | jasta | that's actually quite helpful. thanks. |
| 06:16.05 | romainguy__ | yeah, ViewInflate is a pretty sweet tool |
| 06:16.13 | romainguy__ | especially from within Adapters |
| 06:16.34 | zhobbs | exactly..I was struggling with doing a layout via code in an adapter last night |
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| 06:39.02 | romainguy____ | sorry for all the disconnects/reconnects |
| 06:39.06 | romainguy____ | playing with the router |
| 06:42.28 | jasta | ever had one of those odd philosophical dialogues with youreslf about why you constantly refer to actions performed by your code as "we"? |
| 06:42.48 | jasta | i sometimes wonder if programmers identify with their code like they are cooperating ;) |
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| 06:59.19 | jasta | good lord, the horizontal progress bar drawable is uuuggly ;) |
| 07:10.07 | jasta | there is so much interesting stuff in res/drawable in the android.jar :) |
| 07:10.24 | romainguy____ | yep |
| 07:10.38 | jasta | lots of goofy looking white icons too |
| 07:10.54 | romainguy____ | probably statubar's icons |
| 07:11.03 | jasta | i think they are too big for that. i see those as well. |
| 07:11.20 | romainguy____ | what does the white goofy icons look like? |
| 07:11.52 | jasta | like, res/drawable/contact_fax.png |
| 07:12.01 | romainguy____ | ah yes |
| 07:12.03 | jasta | they seem to all be contact icons |
| 07:12.18 | jasta | contact_pager.png hehe. i hope you guys don't ship with a pager field :) |
| 07:29.01 | jasta | hehe, what the hell. you can click to select a row not selectable. |
| 07:30.43 | jerkface03 | Does the OutputStream of a Socket block? or will it return right away when you add something to it? even if it's a very large write? |
| 07:33.49 | jasta | Yes, it will. |
| 07:34.44 | jasta | The associated SocketChannel is capable of supporting non-blocking operations, but the Socket is not. |
| 07:35.22 | jasta | Err, sorry, I meant Yes, it will block. |
| 07:36.33 | jerkface03 | SocketChannel is not yet implemented in the SDK is it? |
| 07:36.50 | jasta | That I don't know. I presume not because it is part of the nio package. |
| 07:37.06 | jerkface03 | aye |
| 07:42.22 | jerkface03 | hrm |
| 07:42.31 | jerkface03 | there's no way for me to tell how much i can feed into it without it blocking? |
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| 07:49.08 | jasta | what advantage is there pretending a blocking socket is non-blocking? |
| 07:50.08 | jerkface03 | i dont have to create a seperate thread to manage traffic |
| 07:50.50 | jasta | you must create a separate thread if you using a blocking interface. that is the fundamental premise and Java will not expose sufficient information for you to implement a non-blocking layer on top of that. |
| 07:51.01 | jasta | though that information does exist, in the kernel. |
| 07:51.48 | jerkface03 | ive given up on waiting for nio to be implemented |
| 07:52.00 | jerkface03 | im just using the standard java.net classes now |
| 07:52.14 | jerkface03 | hopefully that package is actually implemented |
| 07:52.38 | jasta | great, but that layer lacks sufficient information to implement non-blocking sockets on top of it. |
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| 09:41.33 | usm88 | hi all |
| 09:42.35 | usm88 | does any body how to install org.eclipse.equinox.app ? |
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| 10:27.13 | jtoy | has anyone layered the way they access sqlite3 on android? |
| 10:27.45 | jtoy | instead of just calling the android provided sqlite3 classes directly? |
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| 14:32.14 | cagxcom | sdk? |
| 14:32.26 | cagxcom | new ui? |
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| 16:34.56 | mike1o | couldn't we just do it like all those who are logged to the channel win the prize? :) |
| 16:43.44 | jasta | except we represent the laziest of all the participants. |
| 16:43.57 | jasta | therefore, however, the best programmers. :) |
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| 16:48.51 | Stephmw | right |
| 16:48.59 | Stephmw | the ultimate in code resuse |
| 16:49.05 | Stephmw | err.. reuse |
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| 16:51.55 | Stephmw | jasta: we don't write any code as that would just be duplicating someone else's efforts |
| 16:52.04 | Stephmw | jasta: so clearly, we should get the prizes |
| 16:55.50 | jasta | yay, made my service thing work. |
| 16:55.59 | jasta | so the activity can just bind to it and figure out what the service is doing at any time |
| 16:56.03 | jasta | without disrupting it |
| 16:56.17 | sushmu | how? |
| 16:56.56 | jasta | well startService and bindService, but my arrangement also has an observer interface on the service itself. |
| 16:57.27 | jasta | i just call startService, then bindService in onResume() and in onPause I unregister my observer, then unbindService. |
| 16:57.42 | sushmu | ok.. anyways the service needs to be disrupted |
| 16:57.51 | jasta | no it doesn't. |
| 16:58.30 | jasta | it gets a second call to onStart(), which it safely ignores, and no unwarranted calls to onStop. |
| 16:58.49 | sushmu | ok |
| 17:01.22 | jasta | i really enjoy the service architecture in android. i just wish some of the stupid smaller bugs would hurry up and get fixed. |
| 17:01.53 | jasta | asynchronous services are so easy to implement correctly, too. |
| 17:02.54 | sushmu | hope you do it right, otherwise it becomes a feature :) |
| 17:03.12 | jasta | i am certain i have done it correctly. |
| 17:04.26 | jasta | brb, shower, then work. |
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| 17:40.00 | romainguy | re |
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| 18:01.26 | zhobbs | alert, altert: http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/blogspot/hsDu/~3/234479957/android-sdk-m5-rc14-now-available.html |
| 18:01.32 | romainguy | ^^ |
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| 18:02.20 | morrildl | jeez, zhobbs |
| 18:02.34 | morrildl | you are on the ball |
| 18:02.45 | morrildl | steal our freakin' IRC thunder, will you |
| 18:02.47 | morrildl | ;) |
| 18:02.51 | zhobbs | hehe |
| 18:02.55 | *** topic/#android by jasonchen -> New Android SDK (m5-rc14) now available: http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2008/02/android-sdk-m5-rc14-now-available.html |
| 18:03.15 | jerkface03 | osnap! |
| 18:03.21 | romainguy | and if I may join in |
| 18:03.29 | romainguy | please, read the release notes :) |
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| 18:07.37 | stifffff | wut ! |
| 18:08.10 | romainguy | morrildl: the docs diff is really cool |
| 18:09.08 | jasta | woohoo! |
| 18:09.16 | jasta | what a treat! |
| 18:09.36 | jasta | i knew it was coming soon. |
| 18:10.02 | morrildl | romainguy: yeah that was crazybob |
| 18:10.06 | morrildl | that diff is sweet |
| 18:10.18 | morrildl | jasta: Yeah, cause we told you it was :) |
| 18:10.21 | romainguy | morrildl: it's quite impressive the number of changes... |
| 18:10.30 | morrildl | It's funny how sometimes we say things but people don't believe us :) |
| 18:10.34 | morrildl | ;) |
| 18:10.36 | romainguy | :)) |
| 18:10.51 | morrildl | romainguy: yeah I know, unfortunately b/c we skipped M4 |
| 18:10.58 | romainguy | morrildl: and also yesterday people on android-beginners noticed the plugin was asking for M5 :) |
| 18:11.07 | morrildl | romainguy: that too |
| 18:11.07 | jasta | ohh, very nice! support for Ogg now, this will be a great help to me. |
| 18:11.25 | jasta | morrildl: you didn't tell us this week :) |
| 18:11.45 | jasta | romainguy: Is that what you were referring to yesterday? |
| 18:11.46 | morrildl | jasta: tru dat |
| 18:11.51 | romainguy | jasta: maybe :) |
| 18:11.55 | zhobbs | UI looks different than the ones at the show |
| 18:12.11 | romainguy | zhobbs: it's the same |
| 18:12.16 | morrildl | zhobbs: they are not necessarily running this latest build |
| 18:12.19 | morrildl | it's somewhat older |
| 18:12.20 | romainguy | except you have a fresher version |
| 18:12.28 | jasta | i can't believe you guys waited for me to get into work to release this though :) |
| 18:13.33 | morrildl | jasonchen: see??? I TOLD you we should have waited for jasta |
| 18:13.48 | morrildl | now he's mad at us. NICE GOING |
| 18:13.55 | jasonchen | morrildl: doh! all my fault |
| 18:13.57 | morrildl | ;) |
| 18:14.05 | jasta | finally, the respect i deserve. |
| 18:14.21 | jasonchen | jasta: next time we'll work around _your_ schedule :-) |
| 18:15.19 | romainguy | jasonchen: can we get some sleep first? :) |
| 18:15.52 | jasta | nice, you guys released the traceview tool |
| 18:15.55 | jasta | i was really hoping for something like this |
| 18:16.02 | romainguy | traceview is really nice |
| 18:16.10 | romainguy | I spent some much time using it for M5... |
| 18:16.20 | jasta | yeah, i had been looking at all the screenshots wondering why we missed out |
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| 18:20.16 | jasta | nice job on the SimpleCursorAdapter improvements. |
| 18:20.25 | romainguy | thank you very much ;-) |
| 18:21.08 | jasta | TabWidget is no longer deprecated? I had been told that you guys were getting rid of that system? |
| 18:21.17 | romainguy | No |
| 18:21.23 | romainguy | We told you that it might go away |
| 18:21.38 | jasta | interesting. |
| 18:21.42 | romainguy | And since it was not ready to be used, it was marked deprecated |
| 18:21.45 | romainguy | Now it's ready to be used |
| 18:21.55 | romainguy | You can actually see it in action in the Contacts app |
| 18:22.16 | jasta | i can't wait to tear into this |
| 18:22.34 | zhobbs | the menu button is a lot different |
| 18:23.49 | jasta | hmm, the view threading improvements seem kind of clumsy. |
| 18:24.40 | romainguy | how so? |
| 18:25.06 | skicson | gah. well, i'm glad I already implemented a expandablelistivew. :-/ |
| 18:25.14 | jasta | It just seems like it's promoting magic, hiding away the Handler concept which is much cleaner and more general. |
| 18:25.48 | romainguy | jasta: we've added these methods because very often you just need to post an action to the UI thread and creating a Handler just for that purpose is cumbersome |
| 18:25.49 | stifffff | has the documentation been improved? |
| 18:25.57 | romainguy | especially since the View has access to a Handler |
| 18:25.57 | jasta | posting a runnable to a View also seems like an unusual relationship. |
| 18:26.17 | jasta | romainguy: I can understand the utility, it just seems magical. |
| 18:26.25 | romainguy | I disagree |
| 18:26.30 | romainguy | Threading should not have to be hard |
| 18:26.42 | romainguy | And considering how difficult it's been for some developers to understand and use Handlers... |
| 18:26.43 | jasta | private Handler mHandler = new Handler(); doesn't make anything harder. |
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| 18:27.37 | jasta | But it does have the advantage of exposing the framework in a manner more consistent with how it actually works. |
| 18:28.01 | romainguy | You can keep using a Handler if you prefer |
| 18:28.09 | jasta | but anyway, I won't be the one confused by it so... |
| 18:28.13 | skicson | lol "Toasts" |
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| 18:28.31 | umdk1d3 | yay new sdk :) |
| 18:28.38 | jasta | romainguy: I understand that; suffice it to say I simply disagree that such a utility was necessary. |
| 18:29.45 | jasta | romainguy: What is this Touch mode bit here? I'm intrigued, but don't understand what specific purpose you guys had in mind creating this? |
| 18:30.01 | romainguy | Which one? |
| 18:30.31 | jasta | The documentation refers to something called "touch mode". I'm curious why that was introduced? |
| 18:30.44 | jasonchen | skicson: the Toasts concept reminds me of the "Toastie" guy that you could make pop-up in Mortal Kombat |
| 18:31.00 | morrildl | jasta: it just means that we're claiming that touch-screen support is usable now |
| 18:31.07 | morrildl | In M3 it really wasn't |
| 18:31.10 | jasta | morrildl: Ahh. |
| 18:31.27 | romainguy | It also means that when you touch the screen, selection and focus disappear |
| 18:31.37 | romainguy | because they don't really have any strong meaning in touch mode |
| 18:31.37 | jasta | oh they actually stop drawing? |
| 18:31.56 | romainguy | yes, but they completely disappear |
| 18:32.01 | jasta | interesting. |
| 18:32.12 | romainguy | in touch mode, getSelectedItem() on a ListView will return null for instance |
| 18:32.26 | romainguy | However, a View can be focusable in touch mode to receive key events directly |
| 18:32.33 | jasta | right, that is absolutely a smart way to do this. |
| 18:32.34 | romainguy | for instance an EditText |
| 18:32.55 | romainguy | note that pressing a direction will exit touch mode and refocus something |
| 18:34.41 | jasta | Nice, tree view ;) |
| 18:35.18 | romainguy | jasta: Not quite, it supports only 2 levels |
| 18:35.31 | jasta | Oh, yeah, I see that now. |
| 18:35.51 | jasta | Oh well, trees aren't very good interfaces on mobile devices anyway. |
| 18:35.57 | romainguy | That's the reasoning |
| 18:38.11 | jasta | whoa, ContentURI was renamed. |
| 18:38.15 | jasta | that's a lot of code to update now ;) |
| 18:38.51 | jasta | oh boy, more than just renamed. yiikkes :) |
| 18:38.52 | skicson | jasonchen: so does the Toast have a pic of you in there somewheres? :-) |
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| 18:39.16 | romainguy | jasta: Good thing you got a deadline extension... :) |
| 18:39.24 | jasta | hehe, yes ;) |
| 18:39.25 | jasonchen | skicson: haha. thankfully, it does not. |
| 18:40.43 | jasta | ohhh, very nice on the openFile method in ContentProvider. |
| 18:40.51 | jasta | that was really a chore previously. |
| 18:43.32 | umdk1d3 | hmm |
| 18:43.58 | umdk1d3 | so now mediaplayer supports mp4 http streaming, but youtube mobile still only offers rtsp :/ |
| 18:44.13 | umdk1d3 | i was hoping for a youtube breakthrough with the new sdk |
| 18:44.17 | umdk1d3 | but oh well |
| 18:44.22 | jasta | umdk1d3: you can rest assured that android will offer a way to access youtube. |
| 18:44.26 | jasta | google owns youtube, remember. |
| 18:44.30 | umdk1d3 | lol yea |
| 18:44.39 | umdk1d3 | im thinking this is the last sdk before the contest deadline |
| 18:44.47 | jasta | they claim not. |
| 18:44.48 | umdk1d3 | so if we want youtube, we need to hack over an rtsp client ;) |
| 18:45.05 | zhobbs | I thought rtsp worked? |
| 18:45.37 | umdk1d3 | orly? |
| 18:45.51 | zhobbs | don't really know, just thought someone said that |
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| 18:45.57 | jasta | hehe, just got to the toast part of the changelog. this does sound like the Mortal Kombat thing ;) |
| 18:46.02 | umdk1d3 | ive hacked together a way to get http streaming working |
| 18:46.07 | umdk1d3 | but havent touched rtsp yet |
| 18:46.11 | umdk1d3 | its not too hard to code up |
| 18:49.22 | zhobbs | Hmm, new Android Manifest Editor for eclipse |
| 18:49.30 | jasta | yeah, im anxious to see that. |
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| 18:54.50 | michaelnovakjr | howdy |
| 18:55.13 | jasta | hello, new SDK. |
| 18:55.28 | skicson | ooh. pretty new bg on the emulator |
| 18:56.00 | romainguy | glad you like it :) |
| 18:56.32 | edcba | so which mobile will use android ? |
| 18:57.15 | skicson | i like the transition animations too.nifty. |
| 18:57.34 | michaelnovakjr | any screenshots of the new UI floating around yet? |
| 18:57.51 | zhobbs | http://www.helloandroid.com/node/258 |
| 18:58.29 | zhobbs | sorry for the annoying flash gallery, but was easy |
| 18:58.42 | morrildl | romainguy: why is the bug droid not the default background, anyway? |
| 18:58.54 | romainguy | morrildl: it didn't work well with this layout |
| 18:59.27 | morrildl | ah |
| 18:59.50 | zhobbs | can I change the background? |
| 18:59.58 | zhobbs | it says feature not supported or something |
| 19:02.35 | zhobbs | are those lists in dev tools, api demos, the default way a ListView looks? |
| 19:02.41 | romainguy | zhobbs: yes |
| 19:03.34 | umdk1d3 | ooh now to interface android with http://blogs.computerworld.com/here_come_the_teeny_tiny_mini_projectors :) |
| 19:05.23 | zhobbs | Nice, if I run ddms while eclipse is running I get infinate popup warnings |
| 19:07.02 | chomchom | YaY new sdk! Downloading now. |
| 19:07.25 | romainguy | zhobbs: aren't you glad about the deadline extension? :) |
| 19:07.36 | jasta | hmm, Ubuntu is all screwy and broken and won't let me install WST. |
| 19:07.57 | jasta | zhobbs: there is a DDMS perspective in Eclipse. |
| 19:08.23 | zhobbs | jasta: yeah I know |
| 19:08.58 | zhobbs | romainguy: yeah, no way you could release this and then expect us to figure it out for march 3rd |
| 19:14.44 | romainguy | zhobbs: you didn't show the new status bar notifications in your screenshots ;-) |
| 19:15.07 | zhobbs | ok, I'll get that updated |
| 19:17.55 | jasta | i'm installing the SDK right now ;) |
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| 19:19.57 | jasta | whoa, the android manifest editor is really elaborate. |
| 19:20.20 | jasta | holy cow |
| 19:21.01 | jasta | aww, Errors (100 of 147 items) :( |
| 19:21.21 | michaelnovakjr | jasta: lot of work ahead? |
| 19:21.26 | jasta | hehe, yeah :) |
| 19:21.55 | jasta | the best part, though, is that my ADC project just reached a major milestone so is in a good state to go tearing through it with API updates. |
| 19:21.55 | f00f- | wow lots of code breakage just by looking at the changelog |
| 19:22.14 | jasta | lol romainguy took the picture on the background of the new SDK. |
| 19:22.20 | jasta | i recognized that right away |
| 19:22.27 | romainguy | :)) |
| 19:22.41 | michaelnovakjr | i am guessing the reason for the extension... |
| 19:23.02 | jasta | ok i must admit i like the new UI a lot more than i thought from the videos i saw. |
| 19:23.12 | jasta | the videos didn't do it justice. there is a lot of subtle design here that looks very nice |
| 19:23.31 | michaelnovakjr | i agree |
| 19:25.36 | jasta | the bubbly icons on the top, however, i don't like. |
| 19:25.49 | jasta | the font used in the api demos is great :) |
| 19:25.53 | jasta | and all that padding, finally. |
| 19:26.04 | zhobbs | romainguy: I don't see any changes to the notification section of apidemos? |
| 19:26.47 | romainguy | tap the status bar |
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| 19:30.40 | jasta | all this new stuff is really great guys |
| 19:32.06 | jasta | ohh, i like the buttons with arrows on them. |
| 19:32.08 | jasta | that's very nice. |
| 19:32.39 | zhobbs | romainguy: I don't get what to do with the status bar? |
| 19:32.47 | romainguy | zhobbs: drag it down |
| 19:33.04 | zhobbs | Oh, I wasn't dragging it down far enough... |
| 19:34.18 | zhobbs | we need a task switcher |
| 19:36.46 | jasta | niiicee, the horizontal scroll bar in the title is great. |
| 19:37.17 | jasta | i also like the new circular scroll bar. i love how it kind of pauses each rotation. |
| 19:37.46 | jasta | nice, primary and secondary progress built in |
| 19:37.49 | jasta | fucking awesome |
| 19:38.07 | zhobbs | horizontal progress dialog looks nice |
| 19:39.04 | jasta | i still wonder about the soft keyboard.... |
| 19:41.13 | zhobbs | I like the progressbar in status bar |
| 19:41.22 | zhobbs | or title bar I mean |
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| 19:50.28 | zhobbs | romainguy: you got your status bar screenshot :) |
| 19:51.19 | zhobbs | is there tabs in m5? |
| 19:51.42 | romainguy | zhobbs: yes |
| 19:52.06 | zhobbs | hmm, just no api demo |
| 19:56.04 | davidw | wow... that's quite an update |
| 19:57.57 | jasta | zhobbs: look at the contacts app. |
| 19:58.03 | jasta | the tabs actually look nice. |
| 19:58.19 | jasta | i'm pleased they finally amped up the padding of everything and utilize all the screen real-estate. |
| 19:58.32 | jasta | it will make touch-screen users very happy :) |
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| 20:01.41 | zhobbs | jasta: try it with QVGA-L, everything is too big |
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| 20:07.08 | jasta | fortunately, that problem is solveable with the SDK. Android was obviously designed to have scalable UIs. |
| 20:07.58 | jasta | but i do think that's a job for Google. the open source community is not going to screw with UI stuff that much ;) |
| 20:08.39 | zhobbs | that's what you think... |
| 20:10.10 | Stephmw | screwing up the UI is perhaps not what he meant :D |
| 20:13.36 | morrildl | jasta is precisely right |
| 20:13.57 | morrildl | the first device that will be available will have a touch screen, so the first UI optimization is for touch-screens |
| 20:14.29 | zhobbs | Are the judges going to even fire up any emulators other than HVGA-P? |
| 20:14.31 | morrildl | when someone gets ready to launch a non-touchscreen device, somebody (perhaps TAT, perhaps someone else) will do a non-touch-optmized UI |
| 20:14.39 | morrildl | zhobbs: I'd be surprised if they do :) |
| 20:15.36 | chomchom | Just finished flicking through all the demos |
| 20:15.54 | chomchom | Nice to see a lot more nested table layou demos |
| 20:16.01 | chomchom | layout even |
| 20:17.34 | chomchom | They UI, although I'm not awe inspired by it, shows more clarity in the design and lends well to help visualise the final designs. |
| 20:17.47 | chomchom | I very much like the buttons |
| 20:18.11 | chomchom | The small additions of the arrow on the buttons are an excellent touch. |
| 20:18.12 | zhobbs | ui seem clunky to me |
| 20:18.22 | chomchom | Yeah |
| 20:18.24 | zhobbs | I guess it's good for big fingers though |
| 20:18.32 | chomchom | I don't mind big and well pronounced |
| 20:18.54 | chomchom | I'd understand big and well pronounced for accessibility reasons |
| 20:19.50 | skicson | ooh this is really breaking a lot of stuff |
| 20:20.06 | zhobbs | hehe, no kidding |
| 20:20.18 | zhobbs | get ready to break out grep/sed |
| 20:21.00 | skicson | it's worse than that. |
| 20:21.07 | chomchom | infact, looking at it, it may just be because only some parts of the UI are rendered. The Home screen just has a background behind the icons which looks a bit tattered. But demonstrates the functionality well enough. |
| 20:21.27 | chomchom | Very much like the layout animations, they are well swish |
| 20:22.44 | chomchom | There is one fundamental point about the UI from the last release I'd like to point out, and I hope is addressed for the final release. |
| 20:23.10 | chomchom | The scrolling feels somewhat unintuitive. |
| 20:23.33 | zhobbs | I was thinking that too, but might be a mouse vs touchscreen issue |
| 20:23.33 | chomchom | I don't know why but there is a mild feeling of disorientation when you scroll down a large area of text |
| 20:25.11 | chomchom | User agents such as web browsers and text programs have got in the habit of displaying your position by the use of a highlighted bar at the side of the application. This at one time displays your current position and an approxomation of the complete text available |
| 20:25.46 | chomchom | Taking that away from a user is mildly disorientating. Even though the IPhone manages it. |
| 20:27.10 | chomchom | It might be a good idea to experiment with a small arrow that would appear at the bottom right and top left corners when there is extended content available. |
| 20:29.10 | romainguy | chomchom: The scrolling feels somewhat unintuitive. << we are still working on that and we made huge improvements on it this week |
| 20:29.26 | chomchom | cool |
| 20:30.25 | chomchom | Be interesting to see how this pans out. User interfaces are having a bit of a rethink with this mobile market. |
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| 20:38.28 | michaelnovakjr | anything about battery life? |
| 20:39.04 | michaelnovakjr | battery usage is crucial in my applicatino |
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| 20:47.11 | zhobbs | michaelnovakjr: is there a way to test battery consumption? |
| 20:47.36 | michaelnovakjr | zhobbs: that is what I am wondering... |
| 20:47.54 | zhobbs | that would be handy |
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| 20:49.27 | michaelnovakjr | definitely |
| 20:49.35 | michaelnovakjr | how about video and android... |
| 20:49.46 | michaelnovakjr | codecs... do they play nice if at all? |
| 20:52.45 | chomchom | http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2008/02/android-sdk-m5-rc14-now-available.html |
| 20:53.00 | chomchom | "New media codecs - The MediaPlayer class has added support for the OGG Vorbis, MIDI, XMF, iMelody, RTTL/RTX, and OTA audio file formats." |
| 20:53.28 | michaelnovakjr | are there formats that it supported before? |
| 20:57.38 | zhobbs | wow, helloandroid got linked on engadget...server melting |
| 20:57.58 | michaelnovakjr | zhobbs...shared hosting?? |
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| 20:58.11 | zhobbs | VPS account...actually doing ok now |
| 20:58.20 | morrildl | zhobbs: congrats? condolences? |
| 20:58.23 | morrildl | hehehe |
| 20:58.26 | zhobbs | maxClients was set to 150 |
| 20:59.15 | morrildl | that's what you get when you scoop everyone |
| 20:59.32 | michaelnovakjr | you get popular :) |
| 21:00.13 | Kraln | vps melted :( |
| 21:00.25 | Kraln | that's no good |
| 21:00.34 | chomchom | which VPS did you move to? |
| 21:00.49 | zhobbs | No, was my fault, it's doing ok now |
| 21:00.58 | zhobbs | I love ServerAxis |
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| 21:04.02 | skicson | so it looks like we can't just send text messages from the emulator to somebody else with a gtalk account |
| 21:05.22 | skicson | that is - running in a browser for example? |
| 21:05.35 | michaelnovakjr | i can't wait to actually test it on hardware |
| 21:05.47 | michaelnovakjr | that is when i will know if my application sucks or not :) |
| 21:07.24 | skicson | i wonder if android will still accept IM inputs from browser-based gtalk users? |
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| 21:09.23 | zhobbs | cool, 200 guests on site and the load it pretty low |
| 21:09.26 | zhobbs | is |
| 21:11.00 | chomchom | Is anyone having a problem with the android:normalTextColor attribute? |
| 21:11.25 | skicson | yeah, it doesn't look like it exists anymore |
| 21:11.44 | chomchom | Whats the alternative? |
| 21:11.58 | skicson | i just used textColor until i find something more relevant |
| 21:12.19 | skicson | I've seen a few changes to the stylable stuff in naming conventions |
| 21:12.34 | skicson | foregroundColor is now colorForeground :-P |
| 21:13.13 | chomchom | makes more sense from a package structure point of view |
| 21:13.20 | skicson | sure |
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| 21:26.13 | michaelnovakjr | where can i find org.eclipse.wst.sse.ui |
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| 21:52.08 | jasta | morrildl: is a major bullet-point of GTalk and "always-on networking" to replace SMS as a proprietary mechanism for alerting devices? |
| 21:52.28 | jasta | i am curious about that since my program deals with synchronization of data. should we assume that the server can wake up the client when changes come in using GTalk alone? |
| 21:52.37 | davidw | heh... I doubt they're going to wave that flag too much before they get carriers on board |
| 21:52.52 | davidw | that second question's a good one though and I'm curious too |
| 21:53.55 | jasta | that would be huge for any application performing data synchronization. absolutely ground-breaking. |
| 22:01.01 | jasta | michaelnovakjr: it's WST, you can install it using Eclipse's Callisto repository. |
| 22:01.09 | jasta | it's under web tools or something. |
| 22:01.10 | michaelnovakjr | thanks |
| 22:01.18 | jasta | but you have to install a bunch of dependencies (i just ran into this) |
| 22:01.30 | jasta | like, 6 or 7. |
| 22:01.47 | jasta | and i had to do them manually for the most part (find the one it wants and install it as well) |
| 22:02.46 | michaelnovakjr | thanks |
| 22:03.30 | jasta | the drop-down notification area is strange, i think. |
| 22:03.40 | jasta | i feel like i should be able to just tap it, but that makes it appear and disappear rapidly |
| 22:03.44 | jasta | i have to tap and drag |
| 22:03.45 | zhobbs | jasta: I need to be able to wake the phone up from a server...and I really wish I didn't have to use gtalk |
| 22:04.07 | jasta | well, the current de-facto standard with mobile devices is SMS. |
| 22:04.28 | jasta | which is just so brutally locked down |
| 22:06.16 | zhobbs | and expensive sometimes |
| 22:06.24 | jasta | thats what i meant. |
| 22:06.35 | jasta | so if GTalk was our option, that would be a relief. |
| 22:06.42 | zhobbs | I think it is |
| 22:06.56 | zhobbs | You can setup a Listener for it right? |
| 22:07.34 | jasta | the new UI in google maps is very nice ;) |
| 22:07.42 | zhobbs | yeah, for sure |
| 22:07.47 | jasta | zhobbs: yes, but i'm just not sure if that's how they're positioning it. |
| 22:08.12 | jasta | that is, is it really going to automatically sign on when the device powers on and just always be reachable via XMPP/GTalk? |
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| 22:09.10 | michaelnovakjr | how do the messengers have open connections like they do? how are they not intensive? |
| 22:09.10 | jasta | i dont see how to zoom in, tho |
| 22:09.26 | zhobbs | jasta: i |
| 22:09.44 | jasta | right, but that's not very convenient for this form factor |
| 22:09.51 | jasta | should be able to tap twice or tap and hold |
| 22:09.56 | jasta | oh, you can ;) |
| 22:09.58 | jasta | tap and hold hehe |
| 22:10.39 | jasta | michaelnovakjr: well, there was talk of optimizing GTalk substantially for mobile operation. |
| 22:10.42 | jasta | that may be what theyre talking about. |
| 22:10.48 | jasta | (in addition to the obvious) |
| 22:11.02 | michaelnovakjr | my application would benefit from being able to monitor my web services frequently |
| 22:13.21 | zhobbs | michaelnovakjr: that's not a problem using an AlarmManager |
| 22:13.31 | chomchom | Is there somewhere we can see a vague list of the milestone expected modifications to the SDK? |
| 22:15.49 | michaelnovakjr | zhobbs: yea, i want to check back with the web services every minute or so... so yea kind of frequent... that is why i am worried about performance... its not a monster query by any means but it is frequent |
| 22:17.08 | zhobbs | michaelnovakjr: yeah, would drain battery |
| 22:17.45 | zhobbs | I have an app in mind where it's very important that a client is alerted of certain updates immediately |
| 22:17.59 | michaelnovakjr | that is pretty much what i am doing zhobbs |
| 22:18.35 | zhobbs | so I need an always on service using sockets or something, but would be nice if there was a way to just wake the app up |
| 22:18.58 | michaelnovakjr | zhobbs, some kind of listener? |
| 22:19.01 | zhobbs | yeah |
| 22:19.18 | zhobbs | I noticed that there is a new attribute "android:port" for intent filters |
| 22:19.30 | michaelnovakjr | docs on it? |
| 22:19.39 | zhobbs | haven't got that far |
| 22:19.45 | zhobbs | just looking for the M5 Changes |
| 22:20.14 | michaelnovakjr | zhobbs, your project is chat based or messaging system? |
| 22:20.15 | zhobbs | /s/for/over |
| 22:21.11 | zhobbs | michaelnovakjr: neither...the app needs to be alert in case of certain emergencies |
| 22:21.11 | jasta | sweet, just crashed the maps app. |
| 22:21.23 | michaelnovakjr | emergencies? |
| 22:21.25 | zhobbs | I can't type today... |
| 22:22.07 | zhobbs | yeah, if the server feels there is an emergency it needs to go out and wake the phone up to tell the user |
| 22:22.23 | michaelnovakjr | like a technical issue or something? |
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| 22:22.52 | jasta | yeah, i dont follow either. |
| 22:23.16 | jasta | emergency is a weird word to use her e:) |
| 22:23.28 | zhobbs | for example, a kid feels in harm, can press button to alert parents |
| 22:23.47 | jasta | he should call 911 for that. |
| 22:24.13 | zhobbs | for sure, maybe he pressed button, it calls 911 and alerts parents |
| 22:24.38 | michaelnovakjr | i am working on a warning system for mobile devices |
| 22:24.47 | jasta | zhobbs: wel, regardless, no need to define it to that level. |
| 22:24.48 | zhobbs | michaelnovakjr: what type? |
| 22:24.58 | michaelnovakjr | weather related |
| 22:25.01 | jasta | why don't we just call it an alert. the specific meaning of that data can be interpreted by the receiver. |
| 22:25.26 | zhobbs | jasta: exactly |
| 22:25.52 | zhobbs | michaelnovakjr: oh yeah, me too :) |
| 22:26.00 | michaelnovakjr | what do you mean? |
| 22:26.10 | davidw | michaelnovakjr, you should call it "Danger, Will Robinson!" |
| 22:26.45 | michaelnovakjr | haha |
| 22:27.29 | zhobbs | so we can keep using handlers if we want to right? |
| 22:27.37 | michaelnovakjr | zhobbs, how's yours weather related? |
| 22:28.35 | zhobbs | the app I'm about to finish is weather related |
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| 22:28.49 | michaelnovakjr | a warning system zhobbs? |
| 22:29.02 | jasta | i'm gonna port my news reader to the new SDK tonight |
| 22:29.29 | chomchom | The notification manager has changed how you add a visual notification to a running service, the upgrade docs are a bit thin on the ground as to how one would now apply an image on the status bar. Any ideas anyone? |
| 22:29.50 | jasta | there's an API demo that does it. |
| 22:30.10 | chomchom | oh is there? |
| 22:30.10 | chomchom | thanks missed that |
| 22:31.10 | chomchom | oh yeah showNotification() |
| 22:38.49 | zhobbs | does android support chinese input? |
| 22:40.44 | skicson | mnf. I guess it does still support chat via a IChatSession |
| 22:47.16 | morrildl | zhobbs: not yet |
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| 22:56.47 | chomchom | god I'm glad I kept the warnings clean. This upgrading is a task. Its going to have to be a concerted community effort to help revamp all of plusminus's tutorials |
| 22:59.12 | morrildl | chomchom: yes :( |
| 22:59.41 | morrildl | We realize that dropping a change of this magnitude on developers all at once is harsh |
| 23:00.01 | morrildl | We don't expect future releases to be this big a change, but then again we can't promise anything either :) |
| 23:00.27 | chomchom | I've got a few checked out that I'll try and contribute back, it would be a shame if new starts were put off by the amount of broken tutorials! |
| 23:00.34 | morrildl | fortunately for the Challenge (at least) you don't have to use M5, you can stick with M3 |
| 23:00.40 | chomchom | Its been a strength so far |
| 23:01.35 | chomchom | It would also be a shame if plusminus and other avid contributers to the tutorial forums got swamped with requests to update the old ones rather than making new ones! |
| 23:02.19 | zhobbs | I'll be marking mine "depreciated" for now |
| 23:05.05 | chomchom | Yeah thats a good start |
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| 23:08.13 | jasta | i intend to update a few of my existing projects tonight. |
| 23:08.22 | jasta | actually, it doesn't look like it'll take me more than a few hours |
| 23:08.23 | jasta | if that |
| 23:12.54 | chomchom | So far the classes extending the ListAdapters the notifications and the manifests have needed the once over, but I must say the documentation provided for the diff, change over recommendations and emulator installation so far is excellent. It has made it as painless as I could imagine. |
| 23:22.01 | jerkface03 | morrildl: i take it from the rlsnotes posted that nio isn't implemented in this rls either? |
| 23:22.04 | *** join/#android jasonchen (n=jasonche@nat/google/x-51bc95908ee9350d) |
| 23:23.05 | romainguy | jerkface03: NIO seems implemented |
| 23:23.19 | jerkface03 | seriously? |
| 23:23.23 | jerkface03 | that's great news |
| 23:23.39 | romainguy | take a look to make sure |
| 23:23.46 | jerkface03 | looks like all my bitching actually resulted in something |
| 23:23.59 | zhobbs | nio? |
| 23:24.11 | chomchom | yeah I was thinking the same thing |
| 23:24.14 | chomchom | whats nio? |
| 23:24.22 | romainguy | it stands for New I/O |
| 23:24.28 | morrildl | jerkface03: the diff is for API changes, basically |
| 23:24.30 | romainguy | it's non-blocking I/O |
| 23:24.45 | chomchom | non blocking? |
| 23:25.02 | jerkface03 | diff? |
| 23:25.21 | romainguy | jerkface03: http://code.google.com/android/migrating/m3-to-m5/changes.html |
| 23:25.32 | jerkface03 | looks neat. |
| 23:28.09 | jasta | migrating content providers is a bitch ;P |
| 23:30.21 | Dan_U | Does anyone know how to select a notification icon from the status bar? |
| 23:30.37 | chomchom | Yeah there is a tutorial on it |
| 23:30.46 | chomchom | in the provided API demos |
| 23:30.52 | romainguy | Dan_U: you mean, with your "finger"? |
| 23:31.24 | Dan_U | well, whatever way you are supposed to. I spent hours trying to figure it out with the last sdk until someone told me I had to click the home button, then the up key |
| 23:31.31 | chomchom | I don't think you can with the emulator |
| 23:31.36 | Dan_U | I select the icon now and it pops some weird panel up beneath the status bar |
| 23:31.37 | romainguy | Dan_U: drag down the status bar |
| 23:31.40 | romainguy | yep |
| 23:31.41 | Dan_U | but I can't do anything with it |
| 23:31.47 | romainguy | that panel must be dragged down |
| 23:31.48 | Dan_U | ah, I see |
| 23:31.59 | romainguy | it works beautfully on a touch screen |
| 23:32.05 | Dan_U | hmm |
| 23:32.11 | Dan_U | except there's nothing in the panel |
| 23:32.13 | romainguy | because when you touch the status bar, the panel appears and your finger also touches this panel |
| 23:32.19 | romainguy | because you have no notifications |
| 23:32.26 | romainguy | you can fling it to make it expand fully |
| 23:32.38 | chomchom | thats a nice idea |
| 23:32.39 | Dan_U | but I was looking at an api demo for notifications |
| 23:32.45 | Dan_U | so I do have the notification |
| 23:32.52 | romainguy | Dan_U: then drag it to the bottom of the screen |
| 23:32.57 | romainguy | it's still a work in progress |
| 23:33.00 | Dan_U | ah, I see |
| 23:33.03 | Dan_U | yeah, that needs some help |
| 23:33.05 | romainguy | right now the notifications stick to the top |
| 23:33.12 | Dan_U | not very intuitive. |
| 23:33.15 | romainguy | again, it works beautifully on a real touch screen |
| 23:33.20 | Dan_U | might be good if you didn't have to pull it down all the way |
| 23:33.26 | romainguy | yes, that's part of the plan |
| 23:33.36 | romainguy | to reveal the notifications early and then stick them to the top |
| 23:33.38 | romainguy | or something like that |
| 23:33.46 | romainguy | anyway, don't worry, we're working on it |
| 23:33.47 | zhobbs | romainguy: the notifications should stick to the bottom so you can peek at them |
| 23:34.00 | zhobbs | beat me to it |
| 23:34.01 | Dan_U | I still prefer the way it was before, with the exception of having to click home then the dpad up |
| 23:34.33 | chomchom | I have one remaining error, and I don't understand it's output message. It results in a "Conversion to Dalvik format failed with error 1" in the problems view. The stack trace gives out a more verbose: UNEXPECTED TOP-LEVEL EXCEPTION: com.google.util.ExceptionWithContext: Couldn't map types in phi insn:v24:[[Z v23:Ljava/lang/Object; v22:Ljava/lang/Class; v19:I". ... ...while processing column_metadata (J)[[Z...while processing |
| 23:34.33 | chomchom | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:34.41 | Dan_U | maybe touching the icon with your finger, then releasing should expand it all the way |
| 23:34.51 | Dan_U | right now it "blinks" for an instant |
| 23:34.51 | chomchom | does anyone understand what its telling me? |
| 23:36.55 | jerkface03 | the diff page doesn't show the nio package as being changed? and doesn't really show any of the nio classes being changed. so it still hasn't been updated? |
| 23:37.25 | romainguy | jerkface03: the diff page just shows methods that were added or removed |
| 23:37.27 | morrildl | jerkface03: the API hasn't changed |
| 23:37.29 | romainguy | it does not say anything about internals |
| 23:37.31 | morrildl | it's been implemented |
| 23:38.18 | morrildl | chomchom: it's telling you dx exploded converting some Java bytecode to Dalvik .dex bytecode |
| 23:38.26 | morrildl | chomchom: you should never see that |
| 23:38.45 | morrildl | please file a bug in the issue tracker, and if possible attach the .class file that's failing |
| 23:41.44 | Dan_U | I have another question about notifications. There's now two intents to use with the constructor. I'm looking at IncomingMessage example and I don't understand the appIntent. |
| 23:42.15 | Dan_U | What does it do exactly? |
| 23:42.52 | jasta | how on earth can you instantiate a Uri.Builder from an existing Uri? |
| 23:43.52 | romainguy | myUri.buildUpon() ? |
| 23:44.01 | romainguy | http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/net/Uri.html#buildUpon() |
| 23:44.05 | jasta | Oh. |
| 23:44.34 | jasta | that would make sense ;) |
| 23:46.44 | chomchom | I'm not sure which .class is failing as it doesn't appear in the stack trace but I'l have a look. Any pointers in the meantime as to how I could go about getting my app to build? Some pointers? I've tried starting the emulator with -wipe-data and I've tried creating a new workspace and running it from there. Any more ideas? |
| 23:50.44 | morrildl | chomchom: are you using external/third-party JAR(s)? |
| 23:51.30 | chomchom | Yes, I'm using an odbc implementation of sqlLite for unit testing |
| 23:51.40 | chomchom | I'll try removing it |
| 23:51.49 | morrildl | yes, do try that |
| 23:55.52 | chomchom | Well that seems to have got the emulator started, thank you. There is no need for my app to use third party Jars so its not a really big problem just now. I'll file an issue with the jars I used. |
| 23:56.04 | morrildl | chomchom: thanks |
| 23:56.08 | morrildl | It's actually a compile-time error |
| 23:56.24 | morrildl | the Eclipse builder is determining that your project is out of date, so it's rebuilding prior to starting the emulator |