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| 00:05.08 | zhobbs | Dan_U: probably when the phones come out |
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| 00:06.29 | Dan_U | yeah, I suppose |
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| 00:28.33 | l33tlinuxh4x0r | does android use a linux kernel? |
| 00:31.46 | l33tlinuxh4x0r | ping |
| 00:32.29 | romainguy___ | yes it does |
| 00:33.50 | l33tlinuxh4x0r | cool |
| 00:33.59 | l33tlinuxh4x0r | and the software is writen in java? |
| 00:35.20 | jasta | ahh, home |
| 00:35.27 | jasta | l33tlinuxh4x0r: Most of it, yes. |
| 00:36.33 | l33tlinuxh4x0r | interesting |
| 00:37.35 | l33tlinuxh4x0r | is there a list of supported hardware? |
| 00:37.43 | jasta | yes, and it contains 0 entries. |
| 00:37.49 | l33tlinuxh4x0r | lol |
| 00:37.54 | l33tlinuxh4x0r | what about the sdk? |
| 00:38.08 | jasta | the SDK is supported on Linux, Mac OS X, and Windows. |
| 00:38.10 | l33tlinuxh4x0r | shouldn't the software that we make run on something |
| 00:38.34 | jasta | l33tlinuxh4x0r: Yes, but it currently only runs on an emulator. |
| 00:38.47 | jasta | l33tlinuxh4x0r: Please read the FAQ on Android's site. I am not interesting in reading it to you. |
| 00:39.30 | l33tlinuxh4x0r | ok |
| 00:40.27 | l33tlinuxh4x0r | do you work for google |
| 00:40.52 | jasta | No. |
| 00:40.55 | morrildl | l33tlinuxh4x0r: http://code.google.com/android/documentation.html |
| 00:41.00 | morrildl | That page should help you get started |
| 00:41.12 | Dan_U | romainguy___: Got a tablelayout issue, want to help me out? |
| 00:41.22 | romainguy___ | Dan_U: I can't right now |
| 00:41.28 | Dan_U | ok, no problem |
| 00:41.30 | romainguy___ | try shrinkColumns and stretchColumns :) |
| 00:41.35 | morrildl | l33tlinuxh4x0r: some FAQs are here http://code.google.com/android/kb/index.html |
| 00:41.47 | Dan_U | romainguy___: doubt that would fix it |
| 00:43.11 | Dan_U | If anybody is wondering what is wrong, http://pastebin.com/d2c646c25 has the example code/xml |
| 00:43.41 | jasta | gonna fire this up on my VNC viewer and take a look at the new UI on a real handset :) |
| 00:43.51 | jasta | err my VNC server |
| 00:48.00 | l33tlinuxh4x0r | is there an irc channel for the msm7k kernel |
| 00:52.41 | jasta | ohhhh, pretty :) |
| 00:54.35 | jasta | wow seriously, this UI does look nice a handset |
| 00:54.56 | romainguy___ | :)) |
| 00:55.11 | jasta | it actually isn't big looking at all |
| 00:55.16 | jasta | it looks quite sensible |
| 00:55.19 | romainguy___ | told ya |
| 00:55.43 | jasta | told me? you must be confused, i was defending the UI. |
| 00:55.52 | jasta | i just hadn't taken the time to actually load it up yet :) |
| 00:56.39 | romainguy___ | :) |
| 00:57.01 | jasta | i love that i wrote this VNC server hehe |
| 00:57.11 | jasta | even though i know it will be totally pointless once phones come out |
| 00:57.19 | jasta | i'm gonna post some pictures for people to drool over :) |
| 00:57.23 | romainguy___ | hehe |
| 00:57.27 | jasta | this time though i'm gonna try to make them not look so damn fuzzy |
| 00:57.47 | jasta | you had some tips for me last time but i can't remember them. should i try taking the photo outside or something? |
| 00:58.01 | romainguy___ | ah no |
| 00:58.06 | romainguy___ | the trick is to take two pictures |
| 00:58.13 | romainguy___ | one exposed for the phone |
| 00:58.17 | romainguy___ | one exposed for the screen |
| 00:58.17 | jasta | oh right, i remember that. but i don't understand what you mean at all :) |
| 00:58.31 | romainguy___ | well the screen is very bright compared to the device itself |
| 00:58.36 | jasta | i was just borrowing my girlfriends basic digital camera. |
| 00:58.44 | romainguy___ | does it have a manual mode? |
| 00:58.52 | jasta | yeah probably |
| 00:59.02 | romainguy___ | if so, you'll want to use it |
| 00:59.53 | jasta | and just control the exposure? |
| 01:00.15 | romainguy___ | yes |
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| 01:01.47 | romainguy___ | hmm |
| 01:01.57 | romainguy___ | I used to have pictures I took that way but I seem to have deleted them |
| 01:02.05 | romainguy___ | aah, I know |
| 01:02.43 | romainguy___ | jasta: http://progx.org/gallery/1081447377.jpg << this is an example of the technique I'm talking about |
| 01:03.12 | jasta | interseting. |
| 01:04.09 | jasta | hehe neat, there's a dropshadow on the windows title now |
| 01:04.11 | jasta | i never noticed that |
| 01:04.26 | jasta | couldn't see it on my monitor, but i can see it on the device :) |
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| 01:09.46 | Dan_U | When I make an invisible tablerow visible, why would the columns in all the rows beneath it appear to shrink in width? |
| 01:11.35 | jasta | romainguy___: i really think you guys went the right route with the menu. looking at it on a phone really drives this home |
| 01:12.25 | Dan_U | I take that back, apparently it's only the first column |
| 01:12.51 | romainguy_ | jasta: thanks :) |
| 01:13.07 | romainguy_ | Dan_U: TableLayout always makes sure that all the cells in a column have the same width |
| 01:13.17 | romainguy_ | if you introduce new columns then the sizes are recomputed |
| 01:13.31 | jasta | teehee, i searched for "mexican near seattle" in Google Maps here and it came up with "El Gaucho's Restaurant", which is a fancy suit and tie steak house in Seattle. |
| 01:13.42 | Dan_U | but I'm adding a row, not a column |
| 01:14.06 | Dan_U | I mean, I could see it widening the column width if my new row had wider content |
| 01:14.16 | Dan_U | but it is getting narrower |
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| 01:17.23 | jasta | hehe maps is unusable on QVGA-L :) |
| 01:17.41 | jasta | (dont lecture me, i understand why) |
| 01:18.50 | romainguy__ | @!# VPN |
| 01:18.59 | romainguy__ | never ever buy an Airport Extreme Base Station if you want to use VPN |
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| 01:22.14 | romainguy____ | re |
| 01:43.59 | Dan_U | I give up. I'm just gonna let my layout look a little weird |
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| 02:26.40 | alphabeta | anyone know why setting the Blur_Behind flag on my activity's window causes the background to go solid black? (without the flag, its transparent, which is what its supposed to be) |
| 02:27.09 | alphabeta | im using the same code as the fancy translucent demo, but instead of the neat clear blue I get solid black |
| 02:30.38 | alphabeta | or why setting the text color for any textview in xml doesn't do anything |
| 02:31.03 | alphabeta | im stumpd |
| 02:31.10 | alphabeta | *stumped |
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| 04:56.27 | sushmu | what's the killer application for android? |
| 04:57.20 | sushmu | i'm sure everyone is developing one :) |
| 04:59.39 | sushmu | its definitely not google though |
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| 06:35.07 | romainguy_ | sushmu: its definitely not google though << how so? |
| 06:41.35 | sushmu | a very simplistic observation: google is already so yesterday |
| 06:41.45 | sushmu | atleast that's what people might think |
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| 06:42.10 | vniles | hi |
| 06:42.28 | vniles | does flattening frames work on android |
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| 06:43.19 | sushmu | people are used to google innovations.. so they are looking for killer apps from anyone other than google |
| 06:43.31 | sushmu | from google, they take granted |
| 06:43.54 | sushmu | again simple theory.. not backed by any deep research |
| 06:45.45 | sushmu | when a third party company makes it big with android and comes up with a killer app.. it takes android and google to the next level, IMHO |
| 06:46.42 | sushmu | it also give a lot of push and credibility to the whole open source thingy |
| 06:47.03 | duey | thats bs |
| 06:47.03 | sushmu | ok.. i'll stop now |
| 06:47.11 | sushmu | welcome duey |
| 06:47.19 | duey | i am welcomed |
| 06:47.35 | sushmu | tell me why its bs |
| 06:47.45 | duey | i look to google for innovation |
| 06:48.08 | sushmu | yes and we got android |
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| 09:04.07 | sushmu | http://pastebin.com/m11a0212c |
| 09:04.14 | sushmu | looking for some suggestions |
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| 14:32.37 | mike1o | anyone else have problems with app icons? |
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| 15:09.26 | pandora-- | mike1o: haha yeah |
| 15:09.37 | pandora-- | mike1o: every phone needs a different size |
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| 15:48.28 | sushmu | please put XMPP back in |
| 15:49.22 | sushmu | lot of people are unhappy about GTalk dumping XMPP support |
| 15:49.43 | Kraln | I'd say go for the mailing list |
| 15:50.09 | sushmu | good idea.. let me register my concerns |
| 15:58.19 | zhobbs | sushmu: xmpp was never in |
| 15:58.33 | zhobbs | sushmu: the old xmpp only worked with gtalk |
| 15:58.33 | mike1o | pandora--, what are the possible choices? |
| 15:59.00 | zhobbs | that's why they renamed it |
| 15:59.31 | mike1o | sushmu, full xmpp wasn't supposed to be in anyway... apparently |
| 16:01.47 | dims | http://davanum.wordpress.com/2007/12/31/android-just-use-smack-api-for-xmpp/ |
| 16:01.57 | dims | (sample on the old SDK) |
| 16:04.24 | sushmu | it would be great if we have full xmpp support |
| 16:04.31 | sushmu | just posted to the dev group |
| 16:05.07 | sushmu | with the latest announcement, xmpp will be eased out soon |
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| 16:06.03 | sushmu | imagine building a twitter like service |
| 16:06.27 | sushmu | with xmpp, a jabber server would do the trick |
| 16:09.14 | Kraln | with xmpp, it'd be hugely bandwidth wasteful. |
| 16:09.30 | Kraln | rest, xml-rpc, or soap would be less wasteful than xmpp |
| 16:09.48 | romainguy_ | ah I understand why so many people on the mailing list complain about the new SDK having a weird UI |
| 16:09.53 | romainguy_ | don't run the QVGA skins :) |
| 16:11.52 | sushmu | Krain: what's the waste? |
| 16:12.23 | sushmu | in the original docs xmpp was said to be faster and reliable |
| 16:13.00 | sushmu | xmpp, rest, xml-rpc, soap will all fall in the same category |
| 16:13.38 | sushmu | the new GTalk specs is talking about native binary protocol |
| 16:13.55 | sushmu | which is ok, but XMPP support must also be retained |
| 16:15.29 | Kraln | xmpp has a lot of overhead. remember we're dealing with a mobile device, and people pay for transfer by the kilobyte in many areas |
| 16:16.03 | Kraln | a gzip'd ascii stream is much preferable to a 10k xml request to send the text "in my room" |
| 16:17.53 | sushmu | i support Android innovating a faster high performing binary protocol |
| 16:18.20 | sushmu | but that's not an excuse to drop XMPP |
| 16:18.46 | zhobbs | sushmu: can't say it was dropped, it never existed |
| 16:18.48 | Kraln | it's not about faster, it's about efficiency |
| 16:19.07 | Kraln | and yeah, they didn't really ever have xmpp anyway |
| 16:20.02 | zhobbs | and take a loot at dims' link there, you can use the smack jars to use standard xmpp |
| 16:20.34 | sushmu | true |
| 16:20.46 | sushmu | but its not the same as native android support |
| 16:20.52 | zhobbs | only problem is that I don't think you can implement a reciever doing that, ie would wake your app up when you get a message (unless you have always on service or something) |
| 16:21.55 | sushmu | GTalk is available.. If it supports an open standard like xmpp.. we can build twitter like service |
| 16:22.09 | sushmu | how cool is that? |
| 16:23.07 | sushmu | now i have to write the entire server part from scratch |
| 16:24.13 | Kraln | kwitcherbitchin. =) |
| 16:24.26 | zhobbs | that must be german or something |
| 16:25.00 | sushmu | looks english to me :) |
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| 16:43.07 | davidw | sushmu, so write an xmpp thing for it |
| 16:46.06 | sushmu | davidw: my plan was to host a jabber server and broadcast |
| 17:38.02 | romainguy | re |
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| 17:55.06 | zhobbs | haha, just got an email from the "for dummies" publisher wanting me to write an android for dummies book |
| 17:55.56 | zhobbs | you'd think they'd read my site and realize that I can't write |
| 17:58.39 | romainguy | zhobbs: some publishers don't care about that :) |
| 17:59.04 | zhobbs | romainguy: any money in books? |
| 17:59.07 | romainguy | nope |
| 17:59.14 | romainguy | depends on what you call money |
| 17:59.18 | zhobbs | hehe |
| 17:59.29 | romainguy | with my book I earned enough to buy a nice TV and a video game system :)) |
| 17:59.38 | zhobbs | Nice |
| 17:59.50 | romainguy | compared to the time it takes to write a book, the pay is miserabl |
| 18:00.00 | romainguy | unless you're very very successful, which is hard on this market |
| 18:00.22 | romainguy | for instance, it pays a lot more to work as a independent tech writer/tech journalist |
| 18:00.25 | romainguy | I did it for years |
| 18:00.40 | romainguy | I earned as much money writing 2 articles for developer.apple.com than writing half of a book |
| 18:02.21 | zhobbs | they don't want a programming book, they want a "how to use your phone" book |
| 18:02.51 | romainguy | ah, then it might be more interesting :) |
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| 18:10.57 | davidw | it's more about advertising for yourself |
| 18:11.24 | davidw | zhobbs, isn't that more appropriate for the "for drooling morons" series? |
| 18:11.26 | zhobbs | yeah, good resume builder also I suppose |
| 18:11.47 | zhobbs | hehe, I was thinking "who buys a book to use a phone?" |
| 18:12.16 | davidw | old people is all I can think of |
| 18:12.16 | zhobbs | But I see like 5 books on how to use your iPod in the bookstore |
| 18:12.49 | davidw | that's terrible |
| 18:13.46 | zhobbs | another guy contacted me saying he's writing a programming book for android called "Hello Android", and that I should give him the site |
| 18:14.01 | zhobbs | but he's let me keep posting on it if I wanted to :) |
| 18:14.06 | zhobbs | he'd* |
| 18:16.38 | davidw | ahhahah nice of him |
| 18:16.48 | fgleich | how does one get apps you write onto your phone and recognized ? |
| 18:17.11 | zhobbs | we distribute the apk file |
| 18:17.33 | zhobbs | eventually there will be package managers that will let users browse different package repos |
| 18:17.36 | romainguy | zhobbs: The opposite happened to me, somebody bought the .com domain that matched the title of my book and shortly before publication, he donated the domain to us :) |
| 18:17.53 | zhobbs | nice of him |
| 18:17.59 | romainguy | yep! |
| 18:18.33 | fgleich | How does a person put an app he's written onto a phone so it runs ? |
| 18:18.59 | zhobbs | right now using a command |
| 18:19.14 | zhobbs | but eventually you'll be able to do it in the web browser or through a package management application |
| 18:19.43 | fgleich | a command on a cli ? |
| 18:19.56 | zhobbs | yeah |
| 18:20.01 | zhobbs | "adb push <package>" |
| 18:20.01 | fgleich | is this documented in the help files ? |
| 18:20.10 | zhobbs | Yeah, somewhere |
| 18:20.11 | fgleich | oh I see, thanks :) |
| 18:22.21 | zhobbs | fgleich: actually, scratch that command, it's "adb install <package>" |
| 18:22.28 | jasta | zhobbs: adb install, isn't it? |
| 18:22.34 | zhobbs | :) |
| 18:22.46 | jasta | although most developers use the Eclipse plugin to do everything. |
| 18:22.52 | zhobbs | or "adb push <package> /data/app" |
| 18:30.10 | fgleich | I have eclipse with android plugin, so that would be able to do it all then ? |
| 18:30.40 | fgleich | thanks for all the answers |
| 18:30.59 | zhobbs | fgleich: yep |
| 18:31.11 | fgleich | awesome ! |
| 18:31.15 | zhobbs | might want to check out the tutorial to get started |
| 18:31.27 | fgleich | I certainly will |
| 18:31.31 | fgleich | thanks again |
| 18:31.43 | zhobbs | http://code.google.com/android/intro/tutorial.html |
| 18:36.46 | romainguy | jasta: what do you mean? |
| 18:37.25 | jasta | well, i have a list of server sources, and a "sync all" button. the typical list, when not doing anything, will show the sources, the last time they synced, and someb asic status info from the database. |
| 18:38.20 | jasta | when you hit sync all, as each source starts doing something, its status will change to "Connecting...", "Synchronizing...", "Updating 1 of 1000...", etc. until finally "Done, last synchronized: now." |
| 18:38.28 | romainguy | you can definitely do that |
| 18:38.37 | jasta | so, there is a mix of run-time information from the activity and service with actual cursor data from the database. |
| 18:38.44 | romainguy | however, given the way ListView is written, this will trigger a new layout everytime you change something |
| 18:39.00 | jasta | previously, i extended the list adapter and a view that was placed at each row so i could have a lot more control over what goes where. |
| 18:39.19 | jasta | romainguy: really? that's pretty bad. |
| 18:39.38 | jasta | Would you recommend an alternative interface? |
| 18:40.20 | romainguy | jasta: The problem is that ListView supports items or arbitrary sizes, so whenever something changes inside an item, you need a full layout because it's the only way to guarantee everything has the right size and position |
| 18:40.42 | romainguy | well the full layout will not be that bad |
| 18:40.46 | jasta | well, there won't be a scalability problem here; typical usage will have 1 source. |
| 18:40.49 | jasta | so, 1 list item. |
| 18:40.55 | romainguy | yep |
| 18:40.56 | romainguy | oh and also |
| 18:41.06 | romainguy | when I say "full layout", I mean it will re-layout what you see on screen |
| 18:41.08 | romainguy | and that's all |
| 18:41.12 | jasta | i know that ;) |
| 18:41.17 | romainguy | just to make sure :) |
| 18:41.27 | romainguy | ListView will perform the same with 1 or 1,000,000 items |
| 18:41.50 | jasta | how can that be? the layout pass has to loop all children doesn't it? |
| 18:43.08 | romainguy | nope |
| 18:43.11 | romainguy | everything is virtualized |
| 18:43.27 | romainguy | ListView basically works with just enough children to fill the screen |
| 18:43.31 | romainguy | and recycle them as needed |
| 18:43.43 | romainguy | that's why it's important to make use of the convertView in Adapter.getView() |
| 18:43.57 | jasta | Really? that's clever. |
| 18:44.00 | romainguy | yep |
| 18:44.11 | romainguy | and that's why we spend so much time working on ListView and GridView |
| 18:44.20 | jasta | How does it behave, then, if I were to drastically alter the size of an entry just off screen? |
| 18:44.23 | romainguy | because they do an awful lot of work for the application to ensure nice performance :) |
| 18:44.37 | jasta | does it just avoid the case entirely and not change the viewport at all? |
| 18:44.43 | zhobbs | so, if you have 1,000,000 items of various heights, and you say setSelection(150,000) how does it calculate the scroll bar % without knowing the heights of the items? |
| 18:44.59 | romainguy | zhobbs: that's one of the issues we need to solve |
| 18:45.09 | alphabeta | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:45.12 | romainguy | right now the scrollbar is based on the number of visible items against the total number of items |
| 18:45.19 | romainguy | so you might see it change size from time to time |
| 18:45.42 | jasta | hmm, well, anyway, how would you recommend i approach this problem then? |
| 18:45.43 | romainguy | jasta: How does it behave, then, if I were to drastically alter the size of an entry just off screen? << when the adapter changes, ListView relayouts what it knows was on screen |
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| 18:46.36 | jasta | i can't see a graceful way to find a particular row by the Cursor _id and inject some artbirary changes to one of the views being displayed at that row. |
| 18:47.18 | jasta | i mean, i know how to do it with a custom adapter and row view. |
| 18:47.33 | romainguy | jasta: the adapter should just say the data has changed |
| 18:47.43 | romainguy | and then in getView() you should update it appropriately |
| 18:47.51 | romainguy | the next SDK will help a little more |
| 18:47.56 | romainguy | since it will provide a nice scroll listener |
| 18:48.11 | romainguy | that you will be able to use to track what positions from the adapters are currently shown on screen |
| 18:48.23 | jasta | But the point here is that the service will notify the activity that a specific source is being worked on, and only that sources status should be updated. |
| 18:48.34 | jasta | So I would need a way to find which row is appropriate. |
| 18:49.03 | jasta | based on the _id column in the Cursor, of course. |
| 18:49.32 | jasta | I remember this being a real problem with the last SDK, which required me to ultimately create my own mapping of _id to row views. |
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| 19:00.31 | jasta | maybe i still have to. |
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| 19:07.48 | aLeSD | hi all |
| 19:08.21 | jasta | hello |
| 19:08.26 | aLeSD | Someone here know where could I find the kernel that ARM used on OMAP850 in Barcelona ? |
| 19:08.32 | aLeSD | jasta: hi |
| 19:08.50 | jasta | the linux kernel source code that Android runs is publicly available on android's google code site. |
| 19:09.56 | aLeSD | jasta: mmm is there a list of the supported proc and arch ? |
| 19:10.35 | jasta | presumably, Android's modifications are portable. |
| 19:11.01 | jasta | what specifically are you interested in? |
| 19:11.34 | jasta | if it's to run Android on some existing platform, you will find that the greatest hurdle is not in the kernel, but rather in the software stack which is all closed source. |
| 19:12.03 | aLeSD | jasta: I have my mobile that use an OMAP850 ... it has Win Mobile ... I'm using an hacked kernel to start linux ... and it works ... but it's to difficult to support my LCD cause |
| 19:12.11 | aLeSD | the code is smoggy |
| 19:12.32 | aLeSD | so I need a better kernel to add the support for my mobile |
| 19:12.53 | jasta | well, the LCD driver that Android provides may be for a device that you do not have. |
| 19:13.02 | aLeSD | the stuff is that I need support for OMAP and the ufficial kernel doesn't support it |
| 19:13.23 | jasta | then you will be able to merge the changes you are interested in from Android's kernel. |
| 19:13.29 | jasta | but you should already know that. |
| 19:13.34 | aLeSD | jasta: of course ... I had found the params dumping the registers in WinME |
| 19:13.44 | jasta | again, you will not be able to run the Android stack on your phone though. |
| 19:15.01 | aLeSD | jasta: I'd like to start with thew modified linux kernel for OMAP850 ... later I will work on the android stuff |
| 19:15.55 | aLeSD | jasta: I can't find the source of the kernel in android website ... and I think is ARM stuff |
| 19:15.57 | jasta | again, i will caution you that since the Android stack is closed source, you will have no chance of making it work on any platform not binary compatible with the ARMv5 target. |
| 19:16.10 | jasta | aLeSD: The source is there. It is on their google code page. |
| 19:17.54 | aLeSD | jasta : ARM926EJ-S V5 architecture up to 200 MHz |
| 19:18.46 | jasta | well, you've got a lot of work ahead of you, sir. |
| 19:18.57 | jasta | have you researched whether the radio in your phone has a supported Linux kernel driver? |
| 19:19.01 | jasta | through Android or otherwise? |
| 19:19.17 | jasta | oh i suppose the OMAP processor is a unified CPU and wireless radio, so it would be. |
| 19:27.44 | aLeSD | jasta: it's a multimedia proc ... it has all inside ... is it the right answer ? :) I'm sorry for my english |
| 19:28.12 | aLeSD | jasta it has ARMv5TEJ |
| 19:28.22 | jasta | what phone is this? |
| 19:28.45 | aLeSD | so android should work on it ... but this isn't my problem now ... not the first :D |
| 19:29.29 | aLeSD | jasta HP ipaq 514 |
| 19:29.51 | aLeSD | I only hope to have the usb working |
| 19:30.04 | aLeSD | with the other kernel I have it |
| 19:30.20 | jasta | unfortunately, even if you get this working, the Android UI in the newest SDK is designed with single purpose for a HVGA touch screen device |
| 19:30.40 | jasta | it doesn't work very well on this screen size :) |
| 19:31.12 | aLeSD | people will make it work on it |
| 19:31.27 | jasta | well, unlikely, since Android is so closed source now ;) |
| 19:31.51 | jasta | i'm not trying to discourage you, i'm just being practical :) |
| 19:38.48 | aLeSD | ... well .. now is not forever |
| 19:38.51 | aLeSD | I will show u a movie on android and OMAP850 |
| 19:39.03 | jasta | i look forward to it |
| 19:39.06 | aLeSD | jasta sorry ... my internet connection isn't good |
| 19:39.10 | aLeSD | jasta ... the hardest part is support the plantform on the linux kernel |
| 19:39.17 | jasta | in the mean time, i got my code working. |
| 19:41.05 | aLeSD | :) |
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| 20:02.25 | jasta | hehe, i've listened to the same song on repeat for the past 30 minutes i think. |
| 20:02.33 | zhobbs | in the zone |
| 20:02.44 | jasta | barely even noticed, although i do love this song |
| 20:02.58 | jasta | i played hookey today, coding at home :) |
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| 20:11.48 | jasta | boo, my wireless keyboard crapped out |
| 20:12.07 | zhobbs | this looks pretty nice: http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/samsungs-new-touchwiz-ui-gets-previewed-on-video/ |
| 20:12.56 | jasta | i'm very glad that Samsung is part of the OHA, actually. they are awesome. |
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| 20:21.54 | f00f- | playing it on the phone? :D |
| 20:22.10 | jasta | not just yet, although i could do it manually with my system so far :) |
| 20:22.13 | jasta | just no UI for that |
| 20:22.27 | jasta | i could attach to the ContentService and downlaod it to the SD card with just a few lines of code :) |
| 20:23.27 | f00f- | :) |
| 20:24.20 | jasta | right now i'm actually just rounding out some rough edges, introducing error logging in the service and exposing it to the user and stuff |
| 20:25.37 | f00f- | almost done with your app? |
| 20:26.05 | jasta | no, certainly not. |
| 20:26.44 | jasta | my application has 3 major components to submit for the challenge: the synchronization client and service, the server (written in C), and the music player. |
| 20:27.03 | jasta | the first two are very far along. the music player hasn't even been started yet. |
| 20:27.25 | f00f- | so you can submit non-apk apps? |
| 20:27.46 | zhobbs | you don't submit the server component |
| 20:28.06 | jasta | Not really. I have been advised to both distribute my server component to compile and install, but that I should also provide a hosted dummy server for the judges to attach to. |
| 20:28.08 | f00f- | it just better be up and running when the judges test it =) |
| 20:28.24 | f00f- | probably a fake server running locally on the phone may be best |
| 20:28.50 | jasta | I am hoping to write a short plea in my submission to ask that if the public server is down to try to install the one I provide. |
| 20:29.17 | zhobbs | just keep it up :) |
| 20:29.26 | jasta | It's not like it's hard, and they are giving away $25K after all, perhaps they should apply a little bit of grace. |
| 20:29.56 | jasta | zhobbs: Well that's my plan :) |
| 20:30.17 | jasta | What is cool, though, is that I will be able to have log activity showing me when my submission is being judged ;) |
| 20:30.29 | zhobbs | that's true |
| 20:30.39 | zhobbs | that's pretty cool |
| 20:31.04 | jasta | and roughly what they're doing with it. |
| 20:31.14 | jasta | the server will be notified by each sync request, and each song download. |
| 20:31.35 | f00f- | nice nice |
| 20:31.53 | jasta | of course, i will be very confused if i don't win, and there's never any log activity. |
| 20:32.07 | zhobbs | yeah, then you know it's a sham |
| 20:32.23 | f00f- | so i'd expect you to go fully public with it |
| 20:32.46 | jasta | of course, they could claim they didn't use my public server, and instead compiled their own from the sources i provided. |
| 20:33.25 | jasta | i want to submit the server as part of this, just in case the judges are not total stiffs and want to actually try out my app as it was intended. |
| 20:34.00 | jasta | the dummy server is just going to copy my music collection's meta data and replace every song with a looped recording. that way, no copyright is violated. |
| 20:34.17 | jasta | but at the same time, BFD ya know. that wouldn't be a very exciting app :) |
| 20:34.20 | romainguy | jasta: of course, i will be very confused if i don't win, and there's never any log activity. << and if you win and there's no activity? |
| 20:34.40 | zhobbs | then who cares :) |
| 20:34.47 | jasta | exactly :) |
| 20:35.44 | zhobbs | confused all the way to the bank |
| 20:36.01 | jasta | i will also be able to determine if the app is being tested in the emulator or on a real phone. |
| 20:36.29 | jasta | well, maybe not. the prototypes probably just use Wi-FI. |
| 20:36.37 | jasta | Fi, i mean ;) |
| 20:38.05 | romainguy | salut loic |
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| 20:47.07 | romainguy | jasta: loic is French |
| 20:47.25 | jasta | yeah, i figured. |
| 20:49.17 | loic-pointgphone | talking about me? :) |
| 20:49.45 | romainguy | :) |
| 20:49.53 | romainguy | I misread your quit message |
| 20:49.58 | romainguy | I thought you were joining ^^ |
| 20:50.01 | romainguy | << tired |
| 20:50.35 | loic-pointgphone | i'm too :) |
| 20:51.13 | loic-pointgphone | working on an android project... for school |
| 20:51.36 | romainguy | loic-pointgphone: what school? |
| 20:53.09 | loic-pointgphone | master in computer science (embedded systems) |
| 20:53.40 | romainguy | where? |
| 20:53.43 | loic-pointgphone | in strasbourg :) |
| 20:53.48 | romainguy | what school? :) |
| 20:53.57 | jasta | french people, ugh :) |
| 20:53.58 | romainguy | or university |
| 20:54.03 | loic-pointgphone | "Université Louis Pasteur" |
| 20:54.11 | romainguy | jasta: let us bond :p |
| 20:54.20 | loic-pointgphone | french people talking in english ! |
| 20:54.23 | romainguy | loic-pointgphone: is Android part of the program? |
| 20:54.50 | loic-pointgphone | no but we had to chose a project, I chosed Android :) |
| 20:56.07 | loic-pointgphone | I guess we have to wait a bit before Android becomes part of the program |
| 20:58.45 | loic-pointgphone | but i'm going to present my project in front of the university director, maybe it will convince him to open an Android course :) |
| 21:00.59 | jasta | whats your project? |
| 21:01.36 | loic-pointgphone | presenting Android :> |
| 21:03.33 | loic-pointgphone | already wrote ~40 pages |
| 21:03.44 | jasta | Will you be loading a browser and showing them the YouTube videos? :) |
| 21:04.31 | loic-pointgphone | exactly ! |
| 21:04.48 | jasta | Sounds cake. |
| 21:07.41 | romainguy | loic-pointgphone: I wish they taught Android at my former school too |
| 21:07.57 | jasta | Getting a bit pretentious, aren't you guys? :) |
| 21:08.17 | jasta | It's only months old, has little source code available, and no commercially available handsets. |
| 21:08.33 | romainguy | jasta: The point is not about learning Android itself |
| 21:08.37 | jasta | It's not exactly a hobbyists dream yet. |
| 21:08.51 | romainguy | jasta: it's more about learning about developping for embedded system |
| 21:09.13 | jasta | I understand that, but how is Android a good case study? None of the development process has been exposed outside of Google. |
| 21:09.24 | romainguy | that's why I'm just saying "I wish" |
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| 21:10.47 | romainguy | and compared to what they made me do, it'd be a lot better, even in the current state ^^ |
| 21:11.13 | jasta | Did you have a focus on embedded systems in college? |
| 21:11.23 | romainguy | nope |
| 21:11.27 | romainguy | my masters was very generic |
| 21:11.34 | jasta | Well, it was in computer science. |
| 21:11.39 | romainguy | but we did embedded network programming on a real-time OS with not TCP/IP stack... we had to simulate network with messages and mailboxes... |
| 21:12.58 | jasta | simulate network, as in, you did network programming without ever attaching a real network? |
| 21:13.10 | loic-pointgphone | my teachers seem to be very interested in the platform so they were totally ok with the project |
| 21:13.17 | romainguy | yes and as in we didn't even use a network API |
| 21:13.25 | jasta | that sounds like a waste of energy |
| 21:13.49 | loic-pointgphone | that's school :) |
| 21:14.27 | jasta | good thing they let you offset yourself with drugs, alcohol, and sex. |
| 21:14.48 | loic-pointgphone | by the way I read MIT is going to open an android course later this year |
| 21:14.52 | loic-pointgphone | true |
| 21:15.15 | jasta | loic-pointgphone: Yeah, I am just so surprised by that. It's such a leap of faith. |
| 21:16.43 | jasta | i had no idea which system i was working on |
| 21:16.47 | jasta | have* |
| 21:32.48 | davidw | jasta, maybe morrildl bribed the professors |
| 21:33.09 | davidw | he offered to let them visit california in winter or something |
| 21:34.26 | morrildl | who? |
| 21:34.28 | morrildl | what? |
| 21:34.30 | morrildl | professors? |
| 21:35.03 | morrildl | davidw: ha, no that's Rich Miner's doing |
| 21:35.14 | morrildl | he's in the Cambridge office, so he's practically next door I guess |
| 21:36.30 | jasta | alright here goes, testing the error reporting mechanism that my service has now |
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| 21:37.01 | jasta | and then, if it works, i'll make a sandwich. |
| 21:37.32 | jasta | oh jeez, threw an exception right away. oh well, i'm hungry |
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| 21:46.53 | jasta | E/CursorWindow( 781): Bad request for field slot 0,-1. numRows = 1, numColumns = 4 |
| 21:46.58 | jasta | hmm, what the hell does that mean? |
| 21:49.51 | fgleich | don't exist yet ? |
| 21:49.57 | fgleich | or not there ? |
| 21:50.46 | fgleich | IRobot mother robot killed em all |
| 21:53.48 | jasta | oh that's fuckin stupid |
| 21:54.16 | jasta | if you use a projection map to add tables names for joins then you have to specifically alias the columns back to their original name |
| 21:54.45 | jasta | so like map.put(Foo, "f." + Foo + " AS " + Foo); |
| 21:55.11 | jasta | otherwise you can't use getColumnIndex(Foo) because it won't find the field "f." + Foo. |
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| 21:55.43 | f00f- | is anyone following the google guidelines for optimized small code? |
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| 21:56.03 | jasta | Not all of them, no. |
| 21:56.09 | romainguy | f00f-: I do :) |
| 21:57.21 | f00f- | oh that's good news :) |
| 21:57.28 | f00f- | i wonder if our apps will be judged on performance |
| 21:57.44 | f00f- | honestly, i was execting a more responsive UI on the emulator |
| 21:57.52 | romainguy | the emulator is a difficult story |
| 21:57.52 | jasta | It is not part of the criteria officially, but I'm sure that it will contribute. |
| 21:58.01 | romainguy | it highly depends on what machine it runs on |
| 21:58.05 | zhobbs | f00f-: read somewhere that on the phones the ui is more responsive |
| 21:58.14 | romainguy | for instance on my MacBook Pro and my MacPro it's very responsive, more so than actual hardware |
| 21:58.40 | romainguy | but we do a lot of performance work to make sure that things run nicely on typical phone hardware |
| 21:58.41 | f00f- | i know that linux perf >> windows perf |
| 21:59.00 | f00f- | ok cool, emulators sometimes lie i've noticed |
| 21:59.06 | romainguy | the two things I can really put emphasize on are: |
| 21:59.14 | romainguy | - avoid numerous memory allocations |
| 21:59.24 | romainguy | - in adapters, reuse the convertView in getView |
| 22:00.25 | f00f- | good point, i think i'm ignoring convertView right now |
| 22:00.44 | romainguy | to give you an idea |
| 22:01.03 | romainguy | on a particular piece of hardware, I've been able to animate a ListView scrolling at 60 fps recently |
| 22:01.17 | romainguy | this number went down to 12 fps with an application that was not reusing convertView correctly |
| 22:01.35 | romainguy | because it ended up churning memory and doing a lot of work in getView() through XML inflation, etc. |
| 22:02.30 | f00f- | right, will need to fix that |
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| 23:57.32 | *** part/#android morrildl (n=chatzill@nat/google/x-6b3adce89948e894) |
| 23:59.44 | duvy | Hi all! I am particularly a new start and have been trying to retrieve sms messages from the SIM. The documentation lists the ISms interface for this as described in http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/telephony/gsm/package-summary.html . Can someone point me to how I can "fetch" this interface as given in the sample method? |
