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| 04:34.54 | tobe002 | hi |
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| 05:23.42 | cutmasta | mornin |
| 05:23.44 | cutmasta | all |
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| 06:27.04 | f00f- | no coding at all! :((((((((((((((((( |
| 06:27.15 | jerkface03 | lol wat? |
| 06:27.24 | f00f- | haven't done a lick of coding for android |
| 06:27.28 | f00f- | i am so lagging |
| 06:27.40 | jerkface03 | get busy then? |
| 06:27.42 | jerkface03 | chop chop! |
| 06:27.55 | jerkface03 | post haste! |
| 06:27.57 | f00f- | well... waiting for new sdk to drop |
| 06:28.05 | jerkface03 | don't hold your breath |
| 06:28.08 | f00f- | working on back end i guess |
| 06:28.29 | f00f- | i guess i know how i'm spending part of the prize |
| 06:28.38 | jerkface03 | how? |
| 06:28.44 | f00f- | just booked a flight to amsterdam, gonna be attending a conference |
| 06:28.47 | f00f- | about LBS |
| 06:28.52 | jerkface03 | lame. |
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| 06:29.55 | f00f- | i certainly hope not! |
| 06:30.17 | jerkface03 | you need to do something better with that cash money |
| 06:30.30 | f00f- | i'm open to suggestions |
| 06:30.51 | jerkface03 | punch someone in the mouth, and then use the money to pay off the medical bills they sue you for as a result of your punch in the mouth |
| 06:30.58 | jerkface03 | atleast you'll be able to tell your friends you punched someone in the mouth |
| 06:31.11 | f00f- | i can do that without the money |
| 06:31.14 | f00f- | just put on a mask |
| 06:31.15 | f00f- | done/done |
| 06:31.20 | jerkface03 | touche. |
| 06:31.54 | jerkface03 | get it converted to pennies, and throw the pennies at people as you drive around town |
| 06:31.58 | jerkface03 | that's also an option |
| 06:32.05 | f00f- | i'd be like an old grandma! |
| 06:32.18 | jerkface03 | then when someone runs up to you and punches you in the mouth, you can sue them to get even more pennies |
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| 06:49.16 | cutmasta | is away (away) |
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| 07:01.20 | jasta | romain? |
| 07:01.27 | jasta | ircing from france? :) |
| 07:01.43 | duey | I didn't know they hard irc in france ;) |
| 07:02.38 | jasta | he's taking a serious risk ;) |
| 07:04.22 | f00f- | uh oh! :P |
| 07:04.28 | f00f- | yeah just minitel from back in the days |
| 07:04.51 | f00f- | so is everyone EXCITED for I/O ?! |
| 07:05.00 | duey | yeah i would be if i was going |
| 07:05.18 | raboof | I/O is some sort of google conference? |
| 07:05.27 | duey | ya |
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| 11:46.46 | volmarias | Good morning everyone |
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| 12:04.14 | Dougie187 | morning everyone. |
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| 13:03.54 | Dougie187 | how was everyone's 3 day weekend? |
| 13:04.32 | volmarias | pretty nice |
| 13:04.35 | volmarias | went camping |
| 13:04.47 | volmarias | relearned that I get horrible allergies for like 2 weeks of spring |
| 13:05.03 | Dougie187 | lol i get horrible allergies for like 6 months of the yar. |
| 13:05.04 | Dougie187 | year |
| 13:06.22 | buster_ | hi guys. how would you search and display restaurants (etc.) on android? :o |
| 13:06.47 | buster_ | is there something like that in the api? |
| 13:06.57 | Dougie187 | i dont know. probably? |
| 13:07.06 | Dougie187 | you can possibly look into how the maps app works. |
| 13:07.09 | Dougie187 | but im not sure. |
| 13:07.34 | buster_ | mh |
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| 13:13.21 | volmarias | I'm pretty sure there isn't anything built in for POI |
| 13:13.38 | buster_ | damn :( |
| 13:13.43 | volmarias | driving directions are exposed through an interface that probably won't be public in the next release for that matter |
| 13:13.58 | buster_ | so i'll need to query some google or yahoo webservice or something like that |
| 13:15.45 | volmarias | probably. |
| 13:16.19 | volmarias | POI stuff is part of the meat & potatos of most personal navigation companies (the other half is directions/routing) |
| 13:16.24 | volmarias | so it maty not be easy |
| 13:17.14 | buster_ | well, its what google maps already offers |
| 13:17.24 | buster_ | enter pizza, and it will find some restaurants |
| 13:17.28 | buster_ | etc. |
| 13:23.16 | volmarias | right |
| 13:23.21 | volmarias | but you can't access that programatically |
| 13:23.24 | volmarias | afaik |
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| 13:27.54 | muthu | mornin droids |
| 13:32.37 | Dougie187 | hows it going muthu? |
| 13:32.43 | muthu | Dougie187: great |
| 13:32.56 | Dougie187 | nice |
| 13:33.02 | Dougie187 | you get your money yet? |
| 13:33.11 | muthu | no.. its a long paperwork |
| 13:33.17 | muthu | and confusing |
| 13:33.19 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 13:33.23 | Dougie187 | thats too bad |
| 13:33.34 | muthu | especially when you are a foreigner |
| 13:33.40 | Dougie187 | yeah |
| 13:33.43 | muthu | will get some details at IO |
| 13:34.03 | Dougie187 | isnt that tomorrow? |
| 13:34.34 | muthu | yeah |
| 13:34.48 | Dougie187 | so does that mean your in cali now? |
| 13:34.54 | muthu | yup |
| 13:34.59 | Dougie187 | ohh cool |
| 13:35.03 | muthu | :) |
| 13:35.17 | Dougie187 | how long was the flight? |
| 13:35.21 | muthu | oh boy |
| 13:35.33 | muthu | i took the longest possible flight |
| 13:35.45 | muthu | chennai - malaysia - hongkong - sf |
| 13:36.02 | muthu | and a 6 hr waiting in malaysia |
| 13:36.18 | muthu | it added up to like 26 hrs!! |
| 13:36.19 | Dougie187 | i would think it would have taken longer if you went through england or something and then went all the way across the us |
| 13:36.21 | Dougie187 | but iono |
| 13:36.28 | Dougie187 | thats insane. |
| 13:36.33 | Dougie187 | i bet you were dead when you got in |
| 13:36.37 | muthu | yeah, across europe is longer |
| 13:36.50 | muthu | Dougie187: yeah, almost and then you face immigration! |
| 13:36.58 | Dougie187 | hah yeah |
| 13:37.06 | Dougie187 | those guys are bastards huh? |
| 13:37.11 | muthu | haha |
| 13:37.21 | muthu | depends on who you get.. |
| 13:37.29 | muthu | and how prepared you are |
| 13:37.44 | Dougie187 | hopefully you didnt get a red neck immigration person |
| 13:37.51 | Dougie187 | i think they would be the worst. |
| 13:38.22 | muthu | haha |
| 13:38.36 | muthu | have been here for sometime |
| 13:38.56 | muthu | and seen many kinds.. but i like US |
| 13:39.02 | muthu | its a great country |
| 13:39.04 | Dougie187 | thats good. |
| 13:39.10 | Dougie187 | i enjoy it here as well. |
| 13:39.28 | Dougie187 | though i like somethings more than others, as with most people here. |
| 13:39.28 | muthu | you in florida, right? |
| 13:39.30 | Dougie187 | but thats alright |
| 13:39.32 | Dougie187 | yup |
| 13:39.40 | muthu | are you coming to IO? |
| 13:39.44 | Dougie187 | are you use to the time change? |
| 13:39.45 | Dougie187 | nope. |
| 13:39.51 | muthu | ha come on |
| 13:39.55 | muthu | would be nice to meet you |
| 13:40.02 | Dougie187 | yeah it would be cool to go. |
| 13:40.05 | Dougie187 | but i cant make it |
| 13:40.10 | Dougie187 | too much stuff to do here. |
| 13:40.21 | muthu | ok |
| 13:40.41 | Dougie187 | hah i dont know if you heard, but 2 days after i got my laptop back it broke again. |
| 13:40.48 | Dougie187 | they shipped it back with a faulty hard drive |
| 13:41.02 | muthu | oh shit |
| 13:41.10 | muthu | terrible |
| 13:41.17 | Dougie187 | yup |
| 13:41.19 | muthu | you should've asked for a new one |
| 13:41.56 | Dougie187 | i will if its broken when they send it back this time |
| 13:44.25 | Dougie187 | so what are you doing until io? |
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| 13:58.54 | Dougie187 | muthu: what are you doing until I/O then? |
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| 14:04.24 | cutmasta | is away (away) |
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| 15:05.00 | jasta | son of a bitch |
| 15:05.36 | jasta | i sent my boss an e-mail telling her i'd be fairly late and may just work from home |
| 15:06.29 | jasta | and she responded thinking i was on vacation Tuesday as well, not just Wed/Thu |
| 15:06.51 | jasta | i should've checked the calendar and just ran with it :) |
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| 15:47.10 | hagna | anyone try the iphone sdk and move to android instead? |
| 15:47.40 | hagna | even though the hardware doesn't exist |
| 15:48.12 | jasta | most of us here adopted Android much before the iPhone SDK was released |
| 15:48.34 | jasta | and were invested enough not to care too much about the iPhone SDK. |
| 15:50.20 | hagna | hmm if someone started caring about the iPhone SDK would you try to correct him or her? |
| 15:51.47 | jasta | not at all, as i said, many of us have not expored it much and so it would be wrong for us to advise anyone else about it. |
| 15:52.14 | jasta | though i would caution you to carefully read the license agreement and details. i have heard that there are evil things lurking there. |
| 15:52.34 | hagna | guts say go with android sdk |
| 15:52.56 | hagna | and I don't even know it that well |
| 15:53.01 | jasta | i would caution you away from adopting the Android SDK at this time, however. |
| 15:53.32 | hagna | jasta: because it is going to change or why? |
| 15:53.35 | jasta | Google is set to make an announcement soon that will clarify the long-term release strategy for the SDK, but at present what we know is that Google will not be making updates until handset launch later this year. |
| 15:53.51 | jasta | And already the latest SDK release is very old (3+ months, with numerous undocumented bugs) |
| 15:54.13 | hagna | jasta: so what does that imply? |
| 15:54.15 | jasta | This strategy has obviously confused and upset many developers, but Google seems unwilling to budge citing various legal challenges. |
| 15:54.39 | jasta | Like I said, they are set to make an announcement this week, so perhaps you can base your opinion on that information once released. |
| 15:55.15 | jasta | hagna: The winners of the Android Developer Challenge have been offered an NDA which will allow them access to new SDK versions with bug fixes, new APIs, etc. |
| 15:55.22 | jasta | The general public, however, is not going to get those updates. |
| 15:55.40 | jasta | So now would be a bad time to adopt Android as a developer. It would seem wise to wait until handset launch later this year. |
| 15:56.03 | hagna | jasta: ok that's interesting |
| 15:56.51 | jasta | It's less interesting and more infuriating, if you ask me. |
| 15:57.08 | hagna | jasta: later this year isn't too bad we're already half way through |
| 15:57.21 | jasta | Last week Google seemed to acknowledge our frustrations and at least confirmed they would make an announcement clarifying the situation |
| 15:58.09 | hagna | on the android blog |
| 15:58.50 | jasta | hagna: Look at the opposite end of the timeline. Handset launch is not expected before the ADC ends, which is some time in August. And Google thus far has not been good about hitting their target dates for the ADC |
| 15:58.54 | jasta | so I bet it slips much further than that. |
| 15:59.21 | jasta | Given that, the last SDK release was made early February. So that would be 7 months between last release and the next one at a minimum. |
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| 15:59.22 | hagna | jasta: oh yeah probably |
| 15:59.35 | michaelnovakjr__ | howdy |
| 15:59.37 | jasta | Prior to that, Android had only been out for about 5 months. |
| 16:00.17 | jasta | hagna: So it's really as though Android has been unreleased. |
| 16:00.35 | hagna | jasta: weird |
| 16:00.45 | jasta | Given that the window between the current release and next one is wider than the availability of Android thus far. |
| 16:00.53 | michaelnovakjr__ | its a good thing there's been an sdk update ;) |
| 16:01.22 | jasta | michaelnovakjr__: ? |
| 16:01.30 | michaelnovakjr__ | very sarcastic |
| 16:01.47 | jasta | hagna: But I would not count them out until after this announcement, which has been confirmed to appear today. |
| 16:01.56 | jasta | Though again, the Android team is terrible with hitting their target :) |
| 16:02.41 | jasta | If history is any measure, I'd bet the "second half of 2008" will land very late in the year: Nov or Dec. |
| 16:02.47 | jasta | If it even lands in 2008 at all. |
| 16:02.56 | michaelnovakjr__ | the whole android experience has been heading south recently |
| 16:03.15 | jasta | Agreed. I'm really going to kidnap Dan. |
| 16:03.29 | michaelnovakjr__ | i probably won't mess around with it any more until the source comes out |
| 16:04.12 | jasta | You mean the 70% of the source that is expected to be released? |
| 16:04.41 | michaelnovakjr__ | my sprint service sucks badly |
| 16:04.43 | jasta | There's that large 3 million line long chunk we'll be missing. |
| 16:04.57 | michaelnovakjr__ | i might just be leaning towards an iphone in june |
| 16:05.19 | michaelnovakjr__ | that is a shit load of code |
| 16:05.21 | jasta | Sprint is awful. I will only use Android if I can "unlock it" and use it on AT&T. |
| 16:05.42 | jasta | Which up until recently I had assumed would not be a problem. |
| 16:05.57 | jasta | Considering HTC's history of making quad-band world phones, and Android's alleged commitment to openness. |
| 16:06.04 | michaelnovakjr__ | this whole thing is a joke |
| 16:06.16 | michaelnovakjr__ | i have my doubts it will ever reach consumers |
| 16:06.17 | jasta | However as of late I am willing to bet that any hope or assumption I have not explicitly confirmed is wrong. |
| 16:08.01 | jasta | I don't doubt that it will reach consumers, I just think it will be very late and disappointingly closed. |
| 16:08.29 | michaelnovakjr__ | i hate cellphones |
| 16:08.37 | jasta | I am reasonably certain that those 3 million lines of closed code include absolutely everything relating to mobile technology. |
| 16:08.56 | jasta | the radio stack, chipset drivers, etc. |
| 16:08.57 | michaelnovakjr__ | of course :) |
| 16:09.15 | jasta | so essentially what we get open sourced is an application framework. very exciting. |
| 16:09.34 | jasta | oh yeah, </sarcasm> |
| 16:10.13 | jasta | i would otherwise hope that this would spark an initiative to reverse engineer many of these closed source pieces to further expand the platform, but i doubt that will happen. |
| 16:10.19 | michaelnovakjr__ | so much for the OHA |
| 16:10.21 | jasta | mostly because Google has pissed off enthusiasts. |
| 16:10.56 | michaelnovakjr__ | Overly Hoarding Assholes |
| 16:11.12 | michaelnovakjr__ | that is the new meaning of OHA |
| 16:11.55 | jasta | there's somethign to be said for our own naivety, though :) |
| 16:12.31 | michaelnovakjr__ | yea |
| 16:12.36 | michaelnovakjr__ | agreed |
| 16:12.44 | jasta | i mean, why did we expect that this platform would be open? because a company said it would be? |
| 16:13.21 | michaelnovakjr__ | and why did we waste our time writing apps for it when in the end the result is nowhere near the expectation |
| 16:13.24 | jasta | that is generally insufficient to convince me. that Google said it permitted an invalid assumption to continue. |
| 16:13.41 | jasta | which is my fault, honestly. |
| 16:13.52 | michaelnovakjr__ | i haven't looked at any code for android in two weeks |
| 16:13.57 | jasta | me neither |
| 16:14.15 | michaelnovakjr__ | and at this point i really don't care to |
| 16:14.29 | jasta | i do generally think that Android will remain one of the most pleasant platforms to develop against |
| 16:14.44 | jasta | and that will certain please developers in the mobile industry. |
| 16:15.08 | michaelnovakjr__ | i'll have something to say about that after i attempt an iPhone app |
| 16:15.08 | jasta | but i was attracted to Android for what it represented: as a way to truly change the mobile industry. |
| 16:15.11 | jasta | it isn't going to be that. |
| 16:15.14 | michaelnovakjr__ | not at all |
| 16:15.33 | jasta | it's a way to neatly file in line in the mobile industry, from the looks of it. |
| 16:16.32 | jasta | oh well, like i said, our naivety can not be blamed on Google :) |
| 16:16.47 | michaelnovakjr__ | true |
| 16:17.46 | jasta | so, Google I/O should be fun btw ;) |
| 16:17.56 | jasta | especially if Google ends up not making an announcement today to clarify all this. |
| 16:18.23 | jasta | i'll happily explain it to anyone at the conference;) |
| 16:20.47 | jasta | actually, i say that because i'm angry and frustrated. the reality is that i will just be drunk for the 3 days i'm in san francisco so i won't much care :) |
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| 16:31.25 | michaelnovakjr__ | jasta, exactly.... it'll take lots of proof for me to start coding for android again.... |
| 16:31.26 | michaelnovakjr__ | be back |
| 16:48.47 | Dougie187 | look whos back. michaelnovakjr__. |
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| 16:50.58 | Dougie187 | Hows it going jasta? |
| 17:03.39 | michaelnovakjr__ | hey Dougie187 |
| 17:04.19 | michaelnovakjr__ | i chipped the rust off my halo playing |
| 17:04.27 | michaelnovakjr__ | back to not so crappy :) |
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| 17:16.57 | Dougie187 | Haha |
| 17:17.02 | Dougie187 | thats pretty good |
| 17:17.07 | Dougie187 | youve been gone for a while. |
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| 17:32.58 | jasta | back, had to get my tire replaced |
| 17:33.12 | Dougie187 | you pumped for I/O jasta? |
| 17:33.16 | michaelnovakjr__ | that must have been exciting! |
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| 17:33.26 | jasta | Dougie187: yeah, but perhaps not for the right reasons |
| 17:33.32 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 17:33.36 | michaelnovakjr__ | i am sick of android |
| 17:33.41 | jasta | i am looking forward to hearing the talk from the Dalvik guy |
| 17:33.44 | Dougie187 | since that statement hasnt been released yet. |
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| 17:33.51 | jasta | and drinking, that will be fun |
| 17:34.14 | jasta | i also am excited to learn about the Google Web Toolkit |
| 17:34.21 | jasta | and Gears |
| 17:34.30 | Dougie187 | but mostly the drinking? |
| 17:34.35 | jasta | but mostly the drinking, yes ;) |
| 17:34.39 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 17:34.44 | michaelnovakjr__ | GWT is ok |
| 17:34.53 | michaelnovakjr__ | i use it a little bit at work |
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| 17:36.58 | jasta | Dougie187: i don't expect the announcement. |
| 17:37.11 | michaelnovakjr__ | what announcement? |
| 17:37.15 | Dougie187 | well. he said latest would be today EOD |
| 17:37.20 | jasta | that google promised us. |
| 17:37.29 | michaelnovakjr__ | oh 'the' announcement? |
| 17:37.46 | Dougie187 | yeah |
| 17:37.52 | Dougie187 | 'the' announcement |
| 17:38.02 | michaelnovakjr__ | what are we expecting 'the' announcement to say? |
| 17:38.11 | jasta | even if they say anything at all today, i expect it will be disingenuous |
| 17:38.34 | jasta | michaelnovakjr__: i have absolutely no idea what it will actually say. |
| 17:38.50 | jasta | i hope it would say "oops, we suck, we will still make bugfix and API changing releases to the public, sorry" |
| 17:38.53 | jasta | but it won't say that. |
| 17:39.20 | Dougie187 | lol michaelnovakjr__ do you know what the announcement is concerning? |
| 17:39.27 | michaelnovakjr__ | what if it just says the sky is blue, and its may and oh by the way.... we lost the source code to the sdk so we are starting over :) |
| 17:39.29 | Dougie187 | you have been gone quite a while. |
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| 17:39.53 | Dougie187 | you may not have heard. |
| 17:40.02 | michaelnovakjr__ | Dougie187, not a clue that is why i asked what it is about |
| 17:40.08 | Dougie187 | haha |
| 17:40.08 | Dougie187 | well |
| 17:40.12 | michaelnovakjr__ | i have been out of the loop :) |
| 17:40.18 | Dougie187 | id say last week it came out, but it might have been the week before. |
| 17:40.50 | Dougie187 | it was leaked that google was not going to release a new public SDK for a couple months. But the winners of Round 1 ADC1 could sign an NDA and get access to it. |
| 17:41.03 | jasta | several months, were their words. |
| 17:41.07 | Dougie187 | a lot of us were complaining. |
| 17:41.16 | jasta | couple is 2, several is 4 or more ;) |
| 17:41.17 | michaelnovakjr__ | wow, they are still doing damage control for that lousy piece of shit comment |
| 17:41.23 | michaelnovakjr__ | i remember that |
| 17:41.32 | Dougie187 | well it was true. |
| 17:41.37 | Dougie187 | as well. they confirmed it. |
| 17:41.43 | jasta | i called Dan an asshat hehe |
| 17:41.50 | michaelnovakjr__ | haha |
| 17:42.06 | michaelnovakjr__ | if i were a winner i would turn around and publicly release it myself |
| 17:42.10 | Dougie187 | and we are waiting to hear what the public can do to get into the SDK becuase it doesnt make any sense to allow 50 people access but noone else because it is "buggy and incomplete" |
| 17:42.11 | michaelnovakjr__ | under a different name |
| 17:42.20 | jasta | michaelnovakjr__: that's pretty serious business. |
| 17:42.23 | jasta | i would not do that, for sure. |
| 17:42.28 | Dougie187 | totally. |
| 17:42.32 | Dougie187 | youd have the whole OHA on your ass |
| 17:42.33 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 17:42.37 | jasta | NDAs are legally enforcable with serious penalty. |
| 17:42.50 | Dougie187 | for sure you would be stripped of your prize money. |
| 17:42.56 | jasta | yeah |
| 17:43.05 | michaelnovakjr__ | unless they checksum every copy how will they know where it came from |
| 17:43.16 | jasta | they very probably do signature each version they send. |
| 17:43.21 | jasta | making it easy to trace. |
| 17:43.25 | Dougie187 | they only have to keep track of 50. |
| 17:43.28 | michaelnovakjr__ | that seems like a lot of work |
| 17:43.31 | Dougie187 | + the ones they give to the OHA |
| 17:43.40 | michaelnovakjr__ | for what will be the 'open source android platform' |
| 17:43.52 | Dougie187 | well its not going to be open source for some time. |
| 17:43.54 | michaelnovakjr__ | fsck them |
| 17:43.55 | jasta | michaelnovakjr__: not really. honestly, making a signature on something like that would be really easy |
| 17:43.58 | Dougie187 | not until handsets are released. |
| 17:43.59 | raboof | feh, wasn't the open-source thing supposed to prevent all of this weirdness? :) |
| 17:44.06 | jasta | just tack on some extra noise in the build system |
| 17:44.21 | jasta | raboof: android isn't open source, and it has been confirmed that large portions of it will never be open sourced. |
| 17:44.22 | Dougie187 | haha its already buggy. |
| 17:44.28 | michaelnovakjr__ | reverse engineer that |
| 17:44.31 | Dougie187 | jasta they can incorporate random bugs. |
| 17:44.42 | michaelnovakjr__ | i think it is all a waste of time |
| 17:44.55 | michaelnovakjr__ | google has totally dropped the ball on this one |
| 17:45.01 | Dougie187 | one little thing some people have though of michaelnovakjr__ is that the teams that sign the NDA can have an unlimited number of people attached to it. |
| 17:45.26 | michaelnovakjr__ | that is pretty lame |
| 17:45.33 | Dougie187 | We did hear that the main reason for the NDA was because some OHA members have some features in the SDK they dont want to public to know about. |
| 17:45.39 | raboof | michaelnovakjr__: well, it's hard to get right |
| 17:45.59 | michaelnovakjr__ | google can stick that sdk where the sun don't shine |
| 17:46.00 | jasta | Dougie187: that is one point i am hoping the announcement will clarify |
| 17:46.06 | jasta | how to get arbitrary people in on the NDA |
| 17:46.15 | Dougie187 | jasta: as me. |
| 17:46.29 | michaelnovakjr__ | that is not open source, and they should take reference to the word 'open' off of their websit |
| 17:46.29 | michaelnovakjr__ | e |
| 17:46.38 | Dougie187 | i expect it to be you have to request access and have an app that you are actively working on, or submitted to ADC1. |
| 17:46.43 | Dougie187 | then sign an NDA |
| 17:46.46 | raboof | michaelnovakjr__: i mean, the openmoko folks got the openness part right, but they're not getting various vendors on board and a number of developers building apps on the scale that android has |
| 17:47.06 | romainguy | michaelnovakjr__: the source code will be released |
| 17:47.20 | Dougie187 | michaelnovakjr__: yeah just not until the handsets are released. |
| 17:47.21 | michaelnovakjr__ | so why the need for an NDA |
| 17:47.36 | Dougie187 | to hide featuers from the public until handsets are realsed. |
| 17:47.37 | michaelnovakjr__ | if it will be open source eventually what is the big deal |
| 17:47.37 | Dougie187 | ? |
| 17:47.51 | michaelnovakjr__ | but the 50 applications that get it won't be using some new features? |
| 17:47.54 | Dougie187 | or from other potential phone hardware manufacturing companies. |
| 17:48.05 | raboof | michaelnovakjr__: i suppose the industry partners demanded a head-start in exchange for support, or something like that |
| 17:48.40 | michaelnovakjr__ | are these parts going to be open source? |
| 17:48.50 | raboof | who knows... |
| 17:48.53 | michaelnovakjr__ | these 'NDA' parts? |
| 17:49.00 | Dougie187 | well from what i have heard from morrildl and jasonchen, they had developed some hardware drivers for specific companies in the OHA, and those companies do not want the public to know what they are. |
| 17:49.37 | michaelnovakjr__ | this sounds familiar |
| 17:49.48 | Dougie187 | michaelnovakjr__: again, from what i have heard. is that all of the android platform (SDK Tools... etc) will be released as open source after the handsets come out. Except for a few hardware drivers. |
| 17:50.19 | Dougie187 | one thing i didnt get clarification on was if google was developing these hardware drivers or if other OHA members were and then contributing them back to google for use in other companies. |
| 17:50.45 | michaelnovakjr__ | its a good thing all this bullshit is holding up developers from writing apps |
| 17:51.08 | michaelnovakjr__ | because a few jerks are paranoid about their drivers |
| 17:51.14 | Dougie187 | yeah i havent even started because there is said to be a lot of api changes in the new SDK |
| 17:51.36 | michaelnovakjr__ | why is vendor specific shit even built into the sdk? |
| 17:51.52 | Dougie187 | lol jasta might say because google doesnt know how to brance. |
| 17:51.53 | Dougie187 | branch. |
| 17:51.56 | michaelnovakjr__ | if i am on an LG handset why do i need the overhead of lets say HTC drivers? |
| 17:52.21 | raboof | isn't even really interested until there's more certainty both hard- and software will be sufficiently open |
| 17:52.23 | Dougie187 | i would guess because they thought it was easier to bundle it all together rather than make a seperate SDK for each company. |
| 17:52.41 | raboof | i'm really eager to find out it'll all be okay though :) |
| 17:52.50 | Dougie187 | raboof: software is said to be completely open. but hardware may not. |
| 17:52.53 | Dougie187 | afaik |
| 17:52.56 | michaelnovakjr__ | Dougie187, you wouldn't need to have a separate SDK necessarily, what about separate packages? |
| 17:53.20 | michaelnovakjr__ | HTC package, LG package.... then if they share something similar then put it in the SDK |
| 17:53.22 | Dougie187 | they didnt like the idea of maintaining all the different packages. |
| 17:53.40 | michaelnovakjr__ | so google is maintaining vendor drivers? |
| 17:53.45 | Dougie187 | i guess. |
| 17:53.55 | Dougie187 | im not sure if they are maintaining them specifically. |
| 17:54.06 | michaelnovakjr__ | that seems a little unnecessary |
| 17:54.07 | Dougie187 | or if the vendors are and they get put back into the sdk. or what. |
| 17:54.28 | pawalls | jasta, Hey |
| 17:54.30 | Dougie187 | also, keep in mind this is all just my understanding of the conversations i have had with morrildl and jasonchen. |
| 17:54.30 | pawalls | jasta, Shall we plan on going out tomorrow night or Thursday instead? |
| 17:54.46 | michaelnovakjr__ | of course :) |
| 17:54.53 | romainguy | You guys talk way too much with way too little information :)) |
| 17:55.20 | Dougie187 | romainguy: thats because you guys all hide when your scared to talk to us. so we fill in the blanks :) |
| 17:55.20 | michaelnovakjr__ | after investing quite a bit of time in the project only to be stalled, it would be nice to know what is going on |
| 17:55.45 | Dougie187 | I havent even seen morrildl in here since like last wednesday |
| 17:55.51 | michaelnovakjr__ | i must say looking back i think they did the challenge a bit too early |
| 17:56.27 | michaelnovakjr__ | i think ducks should have been in a row first, now we have NDA for 50 people and everyone else gets to wait. |
| 17:56.43 | Dougie187 | some people were upset about the whole SDK thing as well because the winners of ADC1 could potentially have an upper hand in ADC2 because of the SDK release. |
| 17:57.13 | michaelnovakjr__ | true |
| 17:57.15 | Dougie187 | so i guess they are working on a statement to address the "public" access of the SDK. |
| 17:57.34 | Dougie187 | at least thats what some of us hope is included in the announcement. |
| 17:57.56 | michaelnovakjr__ | my confidence in this whole process has definitely gone down |
| 17:58.17 | michaelnovakjr__ | i'm just going to wait for the source to be released |
| 17:58.26 | michaelnovakjr__ | in the meantime, i'll enjoy an iPhone! |
| 17:58.43 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 17:58.44 | Dougie187 | did you get one? |
| 17:58.46 | Dougie187 | or are you going to? |
| 17:58.58 | michaelnovakjr__ | waiting to see if June will bring a 3G version |
| 17:59.07 | michaelnovakjr__ | and a better SDK |
| 17:59.14 | Dougie187 | lol engadget thinks its coming soon. |
| 17:59.23 | michaelnovakjr__ | WWDC isn't too far away |
| 17:59.28 | Dougie187 | i keep seeing posts of 3G Iphone Ahead. |
| 17:59.33 | Dougie187 | yeah i remember hearing that too. |
| 17:59.55 | michaelnovakjr__ | i think at WWDC there will be 3G iphone and a way better sdk that supports background processes |
| 18:00.21 | Dougie187 | did you see the post of the MBA cutting some guy and slicing bread? |
| 18:00.38 | michaelnovakjr__ | nope |
| 18:01.20 | Dougie187 | http://www.engadget.com/2008/05/27/german-users-claim-macbook-air-can-cut-through-bread-flesh/ |
| 18:02.34 | michaelnovakjr__ | haha |
| 18:02.46 | michaelnovakjr__ | not sure i would use my laptop to cut bread :) |
| 18:02.55 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 18:04.28 | dims | macbook is better than sliced bread, it can even slice bread too :) |
| 18:04.57 | michaelnovakjr__ | and apparently slice your arm off if you are being an idiot and leaning against it |
| 18:05.12 | Dougie187 | either way michaelnovakjr__ we are supposed to hear the "announcement" today by the end of the day. |
| 18:05.36 | michaelnovakjr__ | i'm very interested to see what they have to say |
| 18:05.48 | Dougie187 | so are most of us. |
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| 18:07.09 | Dougie187 | romainguy should have clarified the stuff that i said that was wrong. |
| 18:16.22 | Kraln | michaelnovakjr__: I'm pretty sure the Iphone already supports background threads |
| 18:16.37 | Kraln | also, what's wrong with the current sdk? |
| 18:17.41 | tale_ | I've been holding out for an android phone, working on my own app, but I think that unless they announce something pretty significant, I'll be jumping on the iPhone bandwagon. |
| 18:17.55 | Kraln | honestly? why not the blackberry bandwagon |
| 18:17.58 | Kraln | much larger install base |
| 18:18.10 | tale_ | without the openness the iPhone wins with the UI |
| 18:18.21 | tale_ | blackberry's are ugly |
| 18:18.31 | Kraln | it has a larger install base and all the features |
| 18:18.35 | tale_ | functional yes, but I'm interested in looks |
| 18:18.51 | tale_ | if I can have looks and functionality, then why not? |
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| 18:24.27 | f00f- | winners of ADC1 are ineligible for ADC2 |
| 18:24.42 | Dougie187 | i thought they hadnt confirmed that. |
| 18:24.51 | Dougie187 | at least thats what morrildl said last i asked him that |
| 18:25.09 | f00f- | well, seeing who was eligible for ADC1 |
| 18:25.15 | f00f- | i mean |
| 18:25.25 | f00f- | not even google summer of code awardees |
| 18:25.27 | Dougie187 | and by winners, do you mean of round 1 or round 2? |
| 18:25.28 | f00f- | were eligible for ADC I |
| 18:25.34 | f00f- | either |
| 18:25.37 | f00f- | money is money |
| 18:25.55 | f00f- | i believe, if they have given you a chunk of cash in the past |
| 18:25.58 | f00f- | they won't give it to you again |
| 18:26.12 | Dougie187 | thats what i had thought, but morrildl said they hadnt decided yet. |
| 18:26.15 | f00f- | it would seem the most fair, i think |
| 18:26.17 | f00f- | ah okay |
| 18:26.39 | Dougie187 | he said they havent figured out if ADC2 will be structured the same at all or even if the Ts and Cs will be the same. |
| 18:27.08 | f00f- | it seems they are only a few days ahead of us in everything |
| 18:27.23 | Dougie187 | yup |
| 18:30.35 | Dougie187 | i think that disappoints a lot of people though |
| 18:31.28 | f00f- | every relationship needs good communication |
| 18:31.43 | Dougie187 | heh |
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| 19:23.04 | Dougie187_ | do any of you use timevault |
| 19:23.05 | Dougie187_ | ? |
| 19:23.11 | volmarias | no, I don't need timetravel |
| 19:27.37 | cutmasta | jo |
| 19:31.59 | borism | top -o cpu |
| 19:32.08 | borism | oops |
| 19:32.28 | volmarias | failure 99% |
| 19:39.46 | cutmasta | is away (away) |
| 20:02.30 | jasta | whew, home |
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| 20:12.04 | raidsf | Google IO tomorrow!! |
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| 20:43.08 | jasta | so, who's going to I/O? |
| 20:44.55 | Dougie187 | not this guy |
| 20:45.40 | michaelnovakjr__ | or this guy |
| 20:46.47 | jerkface03 | looks like you're the only one jasta |
| 20:47.14 | michaelnovakjr__ | and muthu :) |
| 20:48.54 | Dougie187 | and pawalls |
| 20:49.06 | Dougie187 | possibly f00f- |
| 20:49.19 | michaelnovakjr__ | jasta, you'll enjoy the inspirational content muthu will have :) |
| 20:49.31 | Dougie187 | muthu is already there as well. |
| 20:49.56 | Dougie187 | so michaelnovakjr__ your getting better at halo? |
| 20:54.37 | Dougie187 | i wonder which carrier will release the first android device. |
| 21:00.20 | michaelnovakjr__ | Dougie187, avg of 20 kills a match, mvp 3 times in a row yesterday |
| 21:00.28 | Dougie187 | nice |
| 21:00.58 | michaelnovakjr__ | i was a little rusty since i was only playing call of duty for a while. |
| 21:01.01 | Dougie187 | well we will have to play some more cops and robbers. |
| 21:01.03 | Dougie187 | heh yeah |
| 21:01.10 | michaelnovakjr__ | definitely |
| 21:01.16 | Dougie187 | 20 kills a match in what? |
| 21:01.18 | Dougie187 | team slayer? |
| 21:01.21 | Dougie187 | big team? |
| 21:01.23 | Dougie187 | lone wolves? |
| 21:01.26 | Dougie187 | or doubles? |
| 21:02.32 | michaelnovakjr__ | team slayer |
| 21:02.39 | Dougie187 | cool |
| 21:03.04 | Dougie187 | when is E3? |
| 21:03.53 | michaelnovakjr__ | e3? |
| 21:03.56 | Dougie187 | yeah. |
| 21:03.59 | Dougie187 | google it. |
| 21:04.34 | Dougie187 | its like the Electronic Entertainment Expo |
| 21:04.35 | Dougie187 | or something |
| 21:05.07 | michaelnovakjr__ | july 11-13 |
| 21:05.15 | Dougie187 | yeah i found it |
| 21:05.16 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 21:05.17 | michaelnovakjr__ | oh wait, that was last year :) |
| 21:05.48 | michaelnovakjr__ | its 15-17 this year |
| 21:06.00 | Dougie187 | awesome. |
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| 22:01.27 | jasta | laammmme |
| 22:01.53 | duey | ? |
| 22:01.54 | jasta | my friend can't make it to the conference after all |
| 22:01.58 | duey | aw |
| 22:02.04 | jasta | he'll still be out tomorrow night, but not to the stuff during the day |
| 22:02.50 | duey | you will have to sit with muthu |
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| 22:16.04 | f00f- | and his witty titles |
| 22:23.17 | jasta | this screws up my plans for tonight too |
| 22:23.22 | jasta | now i don't know what to do with myself :) |
| 22:24.27 | jasta | oh well, maybe i'll just work on some projects |
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| 22:40.03 | jasta | fuck, my phone is gonna die too and i forgot my charger at home |
| 22:40.07 | jasta | hmmm hmmm |
| 22:42.54 | jasta | sweet, there's a store right by my hotel |
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| 22:49.04 | f00f- | where you at jasta |
| 22:50.31 | jasta | i'm at the marriott right next to the moscone |
| 22:50.48 | jasta | i plan to be on foot the entire time i'm there, except to and from the airport |
| 22:51.34 | jasta | so, google's got an hour left until they officially blew this opportunity to right some things before I/O |
| 22:53.25 | duey | ? |
| 22:53.45 | duey | just hijack the state jasta |
| 22:53.48 | duey | stage |
| 22:53.58 | duey | steal the mic and have a good rant |
| 22:55.11 | tale_ | do it!! |
| 22:55.19 | tale_ | jasta, jasta, jasta |
| 22:55.34 | tale_ | we've got your back |
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| 22:57.16 | jasta | i honestly am thinking about not going. |
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| 22:59.04 | jasta | i don't really see what is going to be fun about this. i've already made up my mind that i won't be working on android until the next SDK drops |
| 22:59.14 | jasta | plus let's face it, the Android sessions at I/O are super lame. |
| 22:59.29 | jasta | the only interesting one is on Dalvik, the rest we all know anyway |
| 23:00.13 | duey | all the google techtalks i have been at uni were pretty good |
| 23:00.31 | jasta | yeah, but look at the sessions on Android |
| 23:00.39 | jasta | they're all like "how to write an Android app!" |
| 23:00.45 | duey | well dont go to them |
| 23:01.00 | duey | i went to one on sawzal & mapreduce it was really good |
| 23:01.09 | jasta | well i got a free pass to I/O, so it wouldn't be anything wrong with not going |
| 23:01.27 | duey | well it is sold out |
| 23:01.32 | duey | i think |
| 23:01.44 | jasta | so? |
| 23:01.55 | duey | oh its not |
| 23:04.58 | jasta | i mean, i could just go hang out in SF |
| 23:05.27 | jasta | i wish i would've known about all this Android lameness a month ago when i bought my tickets |
| 23:05.31 | jasta | i definitely would not have gone |
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| 23:08.11 | f00f- | huh |
| 23:08.14 | f00f- | it starts tomorrow |
| 23:08.36 | f00f- | the schedule has been up for a while |
| 23:08.52 | jasta | i mean the lameness of no SDK releases and general evilness surrounding the OHA |
| 23:15.42 | f00f- | do NOT jump to conclusions |
| 23:15.49 | f00f- | unless you have a jump-to-conclusions mat |
| 23:15.58 | f00f- | i think they are being silent for a reason |
| 23:16.10 | f00f- | they are not ready to set off the fireworks just yet |
| 23:16.18 | f00f- | (regarding the OHA) |
| 23:18.24 | duey | so whys the oha evil |
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| 23:31.29 | jasta | f00f-: well i don't much care for this big surprise that they may or may not in store for us. |
| 23:31.46 | jasta | my enthusiasm stemmed from the notion that i could prepare software to run on this platform ahead of its launch. |
| 23:32.19 | jasta | and obviously google wanted us to feel tha tway, else there would not have been the OHA. |
| 23:32.36 | f00f- | there won't be a phone for quite some time |
| 23:32.47 | jasta | and there won't be an SDK release for quite some time either. |
| 23:32.47 | f00f- | you can bet there'll be an SDK out before a phone goes on sale |
| 23:32.50 | jasta | Dan confirmed that. |
| 23:32.59 | jasta | i would not bet on that, actually. |
| 23:33.08 | jasta | because wouldnt that be "setting off the fireworks" early? |
| 23:33.11 | f00f- | i'd say definitely one will drop before august |
| 23:33.17 | jasta | i'd say not. |
| 23:33.31 | jasta | let's take a look at Google's track record, shall we? |
| 23:33.44 | jasta | what regarding Android has been on schedule? |
| 23:33.53 | f00f- | nothing |
| 23:33.59 | f00f- | i dont know what promises have been made though |
| 23:35.06 | jasta | the illusion of this platform has faded in my mind, and i am coming to the realization that they will be late to launch, late to release the next SDK, and will ultimately under-deliver on their openness pledge, |
| 23:35.34 | jasta | and i will be forced to sit on the sidelines as they flounder. |
| 23:36.09 | f00f- | you can jump in the game |
| 23:36.19 | jasta | that they are going to be late on this desperately needed announcement today is very telling. |
| 23:36.33 | f00f- | oh new announcement today? |
| 23:36.37 | jasta | f00f-: uhm, how? with the OHA controlling every aspect of the platform how might i do that? |
| 23:36.53 | f00f- | ask, offer to lend a hand, i dont know |
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| 23:37.04 | jasta | f00f-: last week i complained quite loudly to jasonchen that the lack of response from Google on this NDA issue was inappropriate. |
| 23:37.24 | jasta | he committed Google to an announcement clarifying and explaining the situation last week, though he did not specify a date. |
| 23:37.32 | jasta | Thursday he said it would definitely come Friday or today. |
| 23:37.39 | jasta | then he said it would definitely come today. |
| 23:37.48 | jasta | by the close of business Google time. |
| 23:37.52 | jasta | that is in 22 minutes ;) |
| 23:38.22 | jasta | and this announcement is not expected to be good news, but rather to clarify the bad news. |
| 23:38.26 | f00f- | wow 5pm is it |
| 23:38.57 | jasta | i don't believe the OHA is fit to manage this project. |
| 23:39.29 | jasta | fit, instead, to manage another platform that never labeled itself as open. |
| 23:39.58 | jasta | jasonchen publicly pondered if it would have been best for Google never to have unveiled the "openness" pledge in Android, opting instead to surprise us with that news near launch. |
| 23:40.10 | jasta | And I can say wholeheartedly that I agree. That would have been best. |
| 23:43.27 | f00f- | well let's pound them tomorrow |
| 23:43.49 | duey | so whats wrong with the nda issue? |
| 23:57.06 | jasta | that it exists. :) |
| 23:57.40 | jasta | moreover, that the general public will not be able to update their code to new APIs, utilize new features, or simply even have normal bug fixes. |
| 23:57.55 | jasta | M5 as it stands has lots of pathetic bugs that are reported as fixed in Google's source tree. |
| 23:58.18 | jasta | such as the MediaPlayer which crashes, fails to support the codecs they claim, and has no streaming/caching features. |
| 23:58.32 | jasta | or rather, has very limited streaming features which were otherwise intended to be more robust. |
| 23:59.01 | jasta | and that the Eclipse ADT debugger doesn't support watch expressions, and under certain scenarios showing local variables crashes the running process in Android. |
| 23:59.13 | jasta | or that the XML DOM parser doesn't support entities, CDATA section, etc. |
| 23:59.22 | jasta | or the animation cache bugs. |
| 23:59.24 | jasta | or the layout bugs. |