| 00:06.27 | Dougie187 | usability. |
| 00:06.36 | Dougie187 | i would say that is a good reason why android is better. |
| 00:06.56 | Dougie187 | it would be more compatible with windows, linux, and mac than windows mobile. |
| 00:09.27 | Dougie187 | volmarias |
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| 00:37.20 | umdk1d3-io | anybody around io? |
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| 01:36.33 | umdk1d3-io | anybody around io |
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| 01:36.44 | umdk1d3-io | anybody around io |
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| 01:56.14 | umdk1d3-io | jjjjjjjk oooo |
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| 05:45.56 | gil_android | Has anyone installed the android-sdk_72264 release? |
| 05:46.04 | muthu | what? |
| 05:46.08 | muthu | is that the new one? |
| 05:46.12 | gil_android | Yes |
| 05:46.20 | muthu | not yet |
| 05:46.25 | gil_android | Hm |
| 05:46.32 | muthu | any changes? |
| 05:46.33 | gil_android | Does not start |
| 05:46.44 | gil_android | Many changes |
| 05:47.04 | gil_android | Took me a few hours to fix most if the problems in my code. |
| 05:47.07 | duey | uh |
| 05:47.18 | duey | there is no new release? |
| 05:47.26 | gil_android | There are a few changes in the Contacts database that I could not fix yet |
| 05:47.52 | gil_android | Top 50 only release |
| 05:47.52 | duey | how is IO muthu ? |
| 05:48.00 | duey | well why are you talking about it in here? |
| 05:48.21 | gil_android | Just asking |
| 05:48.36 | duey | didn't they NDA that..? |
| 05:48.48 | gil_android | You mean because of the NDA? |
| 05:49.08 | duey | well my understanding of an NDA is that you dont go into a public chat room and start talking about the subject which is under NDA |
| 05:49.17 | gil_android | Agreed |
| 05:49.22 | duey | just a suggestion |
| 05:49.28 | gil_android | A good one |
| 05:50.05 | gil_android | Did you participate in ADC 1? |
| 05:50.13 | duey | yeah |
| 05:50.23 | muthu | duey: hey |
| 05:50.33 | duey | jasta beat you up yet? |
| 05:50.41 | muthu | met jasta!! |
| 05:50.43 | muthu | haha |
| 05:50.43 | duey | zomg |
| 05:50.57 | muthu | guess he's partying still |
| 05:51.26 | muthu | IO was pretty good, met a few folks |
| 05:51.30 | duey | nice |
| 05:51.45 | muthu | most of them from this channel |
| 05:51.48 | muthu | pretty nice |
| 05:52.00 | muthu | dan, jason et al |
| 05:52.05 | duey | ah yep |
| 05:52.28 | muthu | dmofffet |
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| 05:52.36 | muthu | f00f |
| 05:52.45 | duey | did you have a #android meet up |
| 05:52.51 | muthu | oh yeah |
| 05:52.57 | duey | sit around and play irc? |
| 05:53.06 | muthu | #androids got together |
| 05:53.16 | duey | see any devices? |
| 05:53.22 | muthu | nope |
| 05:53.24 | Doctor_Nick | what are the other google-io channels on freenode? |
| 05:53.34 | duey | muthu, unusual |
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| 05:54.18 | muthu | there was a keynote |
| 05:54.30 | muthu | but that was pretty standard |
| 05:55.45 | Doctor_Nick | the keynote demo is up on youtube |
| 05:56.01 | Doctor_Nick | check the street view with compass mode demo :o |
| 05:56.02 | duey | did you meet the other person in your group lol? |
| 05:56.07 | muthu | food and drinks were good :) |
| 05:56.13 | Doctor_Nick | yeah |
| 05:56.15 | Doctor_Nick | free beer |
| 05:56.16 | duey | google food is always good :) |
| 05:56.21 | muthu | yes |
| 05:56.31 | muthu | met other people |
| 05:56.35 | muthu | but still not many |
| 05:57.03 | muthu | from my perspective, wanted to meet a lot more |
| 05:57.19 | duey | maybe you should of printed a tshirt: |
| 05:57.28 | muthu | haha |
| 05:57.28 | duey | "BREAKING NEWS: I AM MUTHU" |
| 05:57.48 | muthu | people recoginized me.. which was cool |
| 05:57.55 | duey | you had a pic? |
| 05:58.05 | muthu | no.. just the indian face :0 |
| 05:58.07 | muthu | :) |
| 05:58.11 | duey | ah |
| 05:58.13 | duey | lol |
| 05:58.16 | muthu | haha |
| 05:58.51 | muthu | most of the channel folks was there |
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| 10:14.27 | romainguy | yo |
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| 13:38.52 | Dougie187 | good morning everyone |
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| 15:13.20 | umdk1d3-io | rawr |
| 15:13.27 | umdk1d3-io | im in a bean bag |
| 15:13.30 | umdk1d3-io | where all yall at? |
| 15:13.40 | umdk1d3-io | finally met jasta last nite |
| 15:14.24 | Dougie187 | nice |
| 15:14.27 | Dougie187 | you guys get wasted? |
| 15:14.31 | umdk1d3-io | lol no |
| 15:14.43 | Dougie187 | lol i thought he would for sure be getting drunk |
| 15:14.43 | umdk1d3-io | he didnt stay for concert |
| 15:14.54 | umdk1d3-io | flightof conchords was awesome |
| 15:15.21 | Dougie187 | what was the concert? |
| 15:15.42 | umdk1d3-io | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_of_the_Conchords was the band that played |
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| 15:15.50 | umdk1d3-io | that was the major act everyone was looking fwd to |
| 15:15.55 | umdk1d3-io | but other djs thru the nite |
| 15:15.59 | umdk1d3-io | im sure there are pics up somehwere lol |
| 15:16.27 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 15:16.41 | Dougie187 | thats cool, i didnt know they would have a concert at IO |
| 15:17.00 | umdk1d3-io | yea they are a geeky band too lol |
| 15:17.04 | umdk1d3-io | was a good fit |
| 15:17.23 | Dougie187 | heh thats what it seemed like from reading the wikipedia article |
| 15:22.49 | Dougie187 | what sessions are you going to today? |
| 15:23.28 | umdk1d3-io | all the advanced android ones |
| 15:23.36 | umdk1d3-io | there talkinga bout dalvik internals and other stuff |
| 15:23.39 | Dougie187 | Ohh advanced android ones?! |
| 15:23.40 | Dougie187 | nice |
| 15:23.46 | Dougie187 | are they going to give you more on the new SDK? |
| 15:23.59 | umdk1d3-io | mayyyyybe |
| 15:24.07 | Dougie187 | hopefully |
| 15:24.09 | umdk1d3-io | actually last nite they sent out the logins for the private sdk site |
| 15:24.13 | umdk1d3-io | for the winners |
| 15:24.14 | Dougie187 | i guess there were specs released on the phone they used. |
| 15:24.19 | Dougie187 | thats lame. |
| 15:24.23 | umdk1d3-io | i tried grabbing it last nite but hotel wireless died |
| 15:24.34 | Dougie187 | i take it you won first round ADC? |
| 15:24.38 | umdk1d3-io | yea |
| 15:24.50 | umdk1d3-io | goes to try downloading again |
| 15:24.56 | Dougie187 | i think it sucks they they are only allowing the 50 winners access to the SDK. |
| 15:24.57 | Dougie187 | personally |
| 15:25.17 | umdk1d3-io | well |
| 15:25.26 | umdk1d3-io | i mean im sure there will be piles of issues/bugs |
| 15:25.33 | umdk1d3-io | it will be annoying as heck for us |
| 15:25.45 | Dougie187 | but it will be closer to release SDK then the current public one. |
| 15:25.46 | umdk1d3-io | and they dont wanna discourage the entire dev community |
| 15:26.00 | umdk1d3-io | gotta release a good foundation otherwise people will abandon |
| 15:26.05 | Dougie187 | loli think not releasing it publicly is discouraging the dev community |
| 15:26.21 | Dougie187 | certainly discouraged me. |
| 15:26.32 | Dougie187 | i havent even developed anything yet because i dont know how much the SDK is going to change. |
| 15:28.17 | Dougie187 | and there are 1738 teams that are at a standstill now. because they have gone as far as they can go with the current SDK |
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| 15:32.37 | umdk1d3-io | hmm |
| 15:32.45 | umdk1d3-io | Dougie187: you saw screenshots yday from keynote yes? |
| 15:32.56 | umdk1d3-io | im expecting more new sdk publicly today ion sessions |
| 15:33.04 | umdk1d3-io | yday it was surface overview stuff |
| 15:33.05 | Dougie187 | yeah |
| 15:33.09 | Dougie187 | and the videos. |
| 15:33.12 | umdk1d3-io | hopefully there will be wondering yummy details dtoday ;) |
| 15:33.14 | Dougie187 | that plusminus posted on his site. |
| 15:33.17 | Dougie187 | they were cool |
| 15:33.18 | umdk1d3-io | well pics will be more deatiled |
| 15:33.23 | Dougie187 | did you see the specs from the device? |
| 15:33.34 | umdk1d3-io | remind me to post them creativecommons or soemthing |
| 15:33.39 | umdk1d3-io | mmm noi i didnt |
| 15:33.42 | umdk1d3-io | how could anyone tell lol |
| 15:33.47 | umdk1d3-io | they kept the camera view reallyt tight the whole time |
| 15:33.51 | umdk1d3-io | it might be all speculation |
| 15:33.56 | umdk1d3-io | unless someon had insde into |
| 15:34.00 | umdk1d3-io | *info |
| 15:34.06 | Dougie187 | one sec. |
| 15:34.08 | Dougie187 | ill give them to you |
| 15:34.56 | Dougie187 | http://www.engadget.com/2008/05/28/android-qanda-session-at-i-o-reveals-dream-specs-carefree-mentali/ |
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| 15:41.32 | cutmasta | is away (away) |
| 15:46.42 | tale_ | umdk1d3-io, did you happen to see any mockups of an on screen keyboard for the touch screen phone they demoed? |
| 15:47.07 | tale_ | well, I guess they wouldn't be mockups, but rather implementations of the keyboard I've seen in the emulator |
| 15:47.25 | tale_ | I'm wondering if they will have some of the logic that the iPhone has in the keyboard |
| 15:49.42 | Dougie187 | i would assume so. |
| 15:49.52 | Dougie187 | because they can just have a touch screen phone |
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| 16:11.39 | umdk1d3-io | rawr |
| 16:11.45 | umdk1d3-io | keynote wireles sux again lol |
| 16:12.21 | romainguy | umdk1d3-io: it's always the case at large conferences |
| 16:12.42 | umdk1d3-io | romainguy: well idk but last year at deve day in san jose it was perfect |
| 16:12.45 | umdk1d3-io | worked the whole time iirc |
| 16:18.38 | romainguy | what's the keynote today? |
| 16:19.46 | umdk1d3-io | user interface |
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| 16:20.40 | umdk1d3-io | and measuing user experiebnce |
| 16:20.59 | umdk1d3-io | o.o quaoting sam walton |
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| 16:32.38 | umdk1d3-io | o.o pcjjman-io is here lol |
| 16:33.08 | umdk1d3-io | pcjjman-io: are you torrenting to kill the net here lol |
| 16:33.09 | umdk1d3-io | :P |
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| 16:33.33 | pcjjman-io | Distributed ddos on your box. |
| 16:33.59 | pcjjman-io | ;P |
| 16:34.48 | Dougie187 | hows the keynote today? |
| 16:35.26 | umdk1d3-io | talking about user experience a lot |
| 16:36.02 | Dougie187 | any cool android stuff? |
| 16:36.25 | trigatch4 | Hey does someone here do AndroidCommunity? |
| 16:40.42 | pcjjman-io | Nothing at all. When she mentioned the evolution of phones she talked about the iphone. |
| 16:40.51 | Dougie187 | hah |
| 16:40.53 | Dougie187 | thats lame |
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| 16:50.07 | Dougie187 | theres a new SC2 unit up |
| 16:50.13 | Dougie187 | for those interested. |
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| 16:56.14 | umdk1d3-io | tayay ssh bax |
| 16:56.18 | umdk1d3-io | stupid wireless lol |
| 16:56.23 | Dougie187 | lol |
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| 17:03.11 | umdk1d3-io | syay |
| 17:03.15 | umdk1d3-io | wireless is come and go |
| 17:03.20 | f00f- | `heh |
| 17:03.21 | pcjjman-io | More go than come. |
| 17:03.26 | f00f- | yeah it even sucks here up by the bean bags |
| 17:03.27 | umdk1d3-io | maybe they thye are rebotting or something |
| 17:03.30 | f00f- | or is quite laggy |
| 17:03.34 | umdk1d3-io | ooh f00f- your here? :D |
| 17:03.43 | umdk1d3-io | keynode it almost done |
| 17:03.47 | umdk1d3-io | were in front row lol |
| 17:03.52 | f00f- | haha nice |
| 17:03.58 | f00f- | i see a lot of people leaving already |
| 17:04.03 | umdk1d3-io | f00f-: im wearing brown striped shirt |
| 17:04.08 | umdk1d3-io | and im tall lol :P |
| 17:04.14 | umdk1d3-io | you? |
| 17:04.20 | f00f- | i'm the only one wearing a swiss army tank shirt, gray |
| 17:04.35 | umdk1d3-io | ooh lol |
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| 17:04.54 | umdk1d3-io | what sessn you goingt o first? |
| 17:04.59 | f00f- | dalvik :) |
| 17:05.07 | umdk1d3-io | well the first hour there isnt anything android |
| 17:05.16 | umdk1d3-io | im prolly hanging around android area on 2ndfloor |
| 17:05.16 | f00f- | i think we'll go early though, since it'll be packed |
| 17:05.20 | umdk1d3-io | oh totally |
| 17:05.26 | umdk1d3-io | KTHXBAI |
| 17:05.30 | umdk1d3-io | keynode ovbar |
| 17:05.38 | f00f- | meet at bean bags |
| 17:05.42 | f00f- | there is one empty here |
| 17:05.45 | umdk1d3-io | nothing new announced |
| 17:05.50 | Dougie187 | bust |
| 17:05.59 | Dougie187 | i want to hear something new |
| 17:06.24 | f00f- | afk |
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| 17:21.00 | pawalls | jasta, holy oversleeping, batman! |
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| 17:53.21 | f00f- | did you guys go out last night? |
| 17:53.37 | Dougie187 | umdk1d3-io said he hung out at the concert. |
| 17:53.42 | Dougie187 | thats all i know |
| 17:53.47 | Dougie187 | i know jasta didnt go to the concert though |
| 17:53.59 | f00f- | i think i saw him there |
| 17:54.14 | f00f- | well, that ended around 9p i think |
| 17:54.31 | Dougie187 | oh ok |
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| 18:07.53 | umdk1d3-io | rawr |
| 18:08.00 | Dougie187 | hows it going umdk1d3-io |
| 18:08.06 | umdk1d3-io | almost into dalvik sesison |
| 18:08.09 | umdk1d3-io | ive got camera |
| 18:08.14 | umdk1d3-io | will be posting stuff almost live ;) |
| 18:08.18 | umdk1d3-io | if theyh have new sdk prettyness |
| 18:08.25 | Dougie187 | nice |
| 18:08.30 | Dougie187 | im excited for those. |
| 18:08.35 | Dougie187 | hopefully they do have new SDK stuff |
| 18:10.04 | umdk1d3-io | oh frick |
| 18:10.07 | umdk1d3-io | my camera is dead |
| 18:10.22 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 18:10.23 | Dougie187 | bust |
| 18:22.11 | umdk1d3-io | yuay pcjjman-io has a camera |
| 18:22.22 | Dougie187 | nice |
| 18:22.22 | umdk1d3-io | and irc actually works here lol |
| 18:23.14 | f00f- | where are you umdk1d3-io |
| 18:23.21 | f00f- | we are here at the right side |
| 18:23.25 | f00f- | where the power is :) |
| 18:23.40 | Dougie187 | whos we? |
| 18:23.41 | f00f- | it's filing up.............................................. |
| 18:23.55 | f00f- | me and dmoffett |
| 18:24.01 | Dougie187 | Cool |
| 18:24.09 | Dougie187 | let me know if you guys find something interesting. |
| 18:24.22 | f00f- | will do |
| 18:24.41 | f00f- | nice music |
| 18:24.47 | f00f- | latin grooves |
| 18:28.02 | umdk1d3-io | f00f-: im at opposite sitde |
| 18:28.12 | umdk1d3-io | f00f-: you areound still? |
| 18:28.20 | f00f- | yep |
| 18:28.26 | umdk1d3-io | okay im gonna stand up |
| 18:28.26 | f00f- | wave your hand |
| 18:28.29 | umdk1d3-io | in brown striped shirt |
| 18:30.03 | umdk1d3-io | yay |
| 18:30.05 | umdk1d3-io | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:30.06 | umdk1d3-io | ;p; |
| 18:30.07 | umdk1d3-io | lol |
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| 18:31.02 | travischoma | so is this the android session back channel... no heckling guys :-). |
| 18:31.10 | umdk1d3-io | rofl |
| 18:31.16 | umdk1d3-io | dalvik iceland |
| 18:31.29 | umdk1d3-io | big picture |
| 18:31.42 | umdk1d3-io | just wait for traffic to die in here lol |
| 18:32.02 | umdk1d3-io | its getttting slooooooower |
| 18:32.07 | umdk1d3-io | f00f-: you using a bnc? |
| 18:33.24 | f00f- | hahhhaa |
| 18:33.27 | umdk1d3-io | vm needs to run o *n very slow cpu |
| 18:33.29 | f00f- | yes, well |
| 18:33.31 | umdk1d3-io | * relativelty little ram |
| 18:33.34 | umdk1d3-io | * without swap space |
| 18:33.37 | umdk1d3-io | * powered by battery |
| 18:34.02 | umdk1d3-io | ooh i wonder if i could icecast this lol |
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| 18:34.16 | f00f- | umdk1d3-io: yeah i use irssi on a server, just using screen |
| 18:34.28 | umdk1d3-io | f00f-: LOL im doing exact same rofl |
| 18:34.29 | f00f- | i would use my n95 to stream but i have no charger with me |
| 18:34.36 | umdk1d3-io | <3 irssi |
| 18:34.37 | f00f- | since it'll die in no time |
| 18:34.41 | f00f- | yes indeed |
| 18:35.28 | umdk1d3-io | * total ram: 64mb, after lowlevel only 20mb left free |
| 18:35.33 | umdk1d3-io | * large sys lib of 10mb |
| 18:35.43 | umdk1d3-io | (agian, emph no swap space) |
| 18:36.06 | umdk1d3-io | header, stringids, typeids, protoids, fieldids, methodids, classdefs, data |
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| 18:36.18 | umdk1d3-io | list of things in a dex (davlik execulateble) file |
| 18:36.27 | umdk1d3-io | id's are constant bool sections |
| 18:37.20 | umdk1d3-io | ids are really pointers between differnet parts of the dex file |
| 18:37.28 | umdk1d3-io | these are prolly the R. id's generated |
| 18:37.34 | umdk1d3-io | wow this session is deep |
| 18:37.36 | umdk1d3-io | lots of diagrams |
| 18:37.41 | umdk1d3-io | taking pix, will be up soonish |
| 18:37.50 | umdk1d3-io | jar file --> dex file |
| 18:39.31 | umdk1d3-io | showed an example of how java classes translate to dex fuile layouts |
| 18:40.19 | umdk1d3-io | hes compaing file sizes |
| 18:40.39 | umdk1d3-io | on average dalvik is 44%, whereas jar is 49% |
| 18:40.51 | umdk1d3-io | compraessed stuff |
| 18:43.58 | umdk1d3-io | enter the zygote |
| 18:44.14 | umdk1d3-io | nascent vm process,s tarts at boot time, prelaods and preinits classes and forks on command |
| 18:44.38 | umdk1d3-io | sits on a socket and runs commands |
| 18:45.23 | umdk1d3-io | shared dirty memory is shared through zygote between all running apps |
| 18:45.46 | umdk1d3-io | ooh pix coming online soon :D |
| 18:46.02 | umdk1d3-io | mark bits for gc;ing |
| 18:47.44 | umdk1d3-io | each separate heap does its separate gc'ing |
| 18:47.54 | umdk1d3-io | android uses parallel mark bits for gc'ing |
| 18:47.56 | michaelnovakjr__ | gc blows |
| 18:48.16 | michaelnovakjr__ | i miss the days when developers had to manage their own memory |
| 18:48.23 | umdk1d3-io | lol |
| 18:48.36 | umdk1d3-io | slides uplolading to flicr :D |
| 18:49.10 | AttractiveApe | michaelnovakjr__: there's a reason why they don't let you do that anymore... |
| 18:49.47 | umdk1d3-io | cpui speed 250-500mhz, 100mhz busw, 16-32k cache, 20mb ram for apps |
| 18:49.52 | umdk1d3-io | what they are aiming for dealing with |
| 18:50.10 | umdk1d3-io | NO JIT COMPILER |
| 18:50.18 | umdk1d3-io | jit=justintime |
| 18:50.36 | umdk1d3-io | PIX ONLING http://flickr.com/photos/8326556@N08/ |
| 18:50.39 | umdk1d3-io | from talk |
| 18:50.49 | umdk1d3-io | sessn still goign on |
| 18:51.46 | umdk1d3-io | thx pcjjman-io ;) |
| 18:52.14 | umdk1d3-io | at INSTALLTIME they look at dex files |
| 18:52.20 | umdk1d3-io | to verify that they have valid indeces, offsets |
| 18:52.23 | umdk1d3-io | code cant misbehave |
| 18:52.27 | umdk1d3-io | but only at installtime |
| 18:52.42 | umdk1d3-io | (might be able to xploit by changing code somehow after installed?) |
| 18:53.11 | umdk1d3-io | its mostly just a barrier for bugs, not really meant for security |
| 18:53.27 | umdk1d3-io | he says most security is provided by process bounaries, not by this check |
| 18:53.54 | umdk1d3-io | thse bugs could turn into security violateions for that speciifc app, so compromise that app, but not entire device |
| 18:54.05 | umdk1d3-io | optimization also happens at instlal time |
| 18:54.20 | umdk1d3-io | byte swapping/padding for arch, static linking |
| 18:55.32 | umdk1d3-io | ENTIRELY new bytecode system |
| 18:56.21 | umdk1d3-io | the stats: 30$ fewer instructions, 30% fewer code unitz, 35% *MORE* bytes in instruction stream |
| 18:56.37 | umdk1d3-io | code unit is 2 bytues in dex file, instead of 1byte in classfiles |
| 18:57.49 | umdk1d3-io | ooh concrete example coming |
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| 19:03.22 | *** join/#android htchien (n=chatzill@72-254-10-118.client.stsn.net) |
| 19:03.29 | umdk1d3-io | yay htchien |
| 19:03.38 | htchien | hi |
| 19:03.46 | umdk1d3-io | what sessn you in? ;) |
| 19:03.50 | htchien | hi umdk1d3-io |
| 19:04.03 | htchien | I'm not in Android related sessions. |
| 19:04.06 | umdk1d3-io | aww lol |
| 19:04.08 | htchien | just stop by |
| 19:04.15 | f00f- | damn!! this is some sick goto statement |
| 19:04.22 | umdk1d3-io | haha lol |
| 19:04.26 | f00f- | i thought goto had to be a label |
| 19:04.31 | umdk1d3-io | awesome he gave gcc credit |
| 19:04.33 | f00f- | now THAT is some power |
| 19:04.36 | f00f- | yeah |
| 19:04.40 | htchien | :) |
| 19:05.02 | umdk1d3-io | f00f-: were posting slides online as we go ;) |
| 19:05.14 | umdk1d3-io | bummer we dont have audio but meh |
| 19:05.15 | f00f- | nice, let me see :) |
| 19:05.24 | umdk1d3-io | http://flickr.com/photos/8326556@N08/ |
| 19:06.25 | f00f- | nice |
| 19:06.29 | f00f- | good pics |
| 19:06.44 | umdk1d3-io | yea, really needs his comments tho to be useful |
| 19:06.54 | Dougie187 | have you guys seen Dan Talk yet? |
| 19:06.55 | umdk1d3-io | == advice on how to optimize your code == |
| 19:07.08 | umdk1d3-io | really big diff is battery |
| 19:08.16 | umdk1d3-io | time scales: * human interaction (kbd,touch), * hguman perception (video,audio), * computer scale (very fast proc) |
| 19:08.48 | umdk1d3-io | just wondering, how many ppl in irc are following this live? |
| 19:09.01 | umdk1d3-io | cuz otherwise well just post pix at end of sesn or something |
| 19:09.17 | umdk1d3-io | first advice: get plenty of rest, dont use batt alot |
| 19:09.28 | umdk1d3-io | (sidfebar: is there a way to get stats on which apps used your batter?) |
| 19:09.37 | umdk1d3-io | (almost like ntop for batery) |
| 19:10.25 | umdk1d3-io | adivce: loop wisely |
| 19:10.41 | umdk1d3-io | ordered by most eff to least efficient |
| 19:10.43 | umdk1d3-io | slide will be up soon |
| 19:11.04 | umdk1d3-io | for(int i = init; i >=0; i--) {} //most eff |
| 19:11.29 | umdk1d3-io | DANGER for : iterable<type>list = getlist; for(Type obj: list) |
| 19:11.47 | umdk1d3-io | pretty wasteful for battery |
| 19:12.13 | umdk1d3-io | advice: avoid allocation |
| 19:12.26 | umdk1d3-io | avoid shortlived objects, because they need to be gc'ed quickly |
| 19:12.47 | umdk1d3-io | also avoid longlived objs, as they steal memory for other apps |
| 19:13.59 | f00f- | done! |
| 19:14.00 | umdk1d3-io | ooh questions |
| 19:14.01 | umdk1d3-io | :D |
| 19:14.15 | umdk1d3-io | lets do some security qujestions |
| 19:14.26 | umdk1d3-io | rest of pix coming up soon from pcjjman-io |
| 19:14.38 | umdk1d3-io | lol big lines for questions almost immediately |
| 19:14.49 | michaelnovakjr__ | avoid long and avoid short.... is there something in the middle? |
| 19:15.04 | umdk1d3-io | yea i think so |
| 19:15.09 | umdk1d3-io | just be smart about your memory |
| 19:15.16 | umdk1d3-io | if you need long, just be sure you need it |
| 19:15.20 | dims | love the pacman! |
| 19:15.34 | umdk1d3-io | so no new sdk stuff in thius sessn |
| 19:15.36 | michaelnovakjr__ | you are telling java developers to be smart about memory :) good man |
| 19:15.55 | michaelnovakjr__ | i find that interesting |
| 19:16.32 | f00f- | umdk1d3-io: who did you say are with on that side? |
| 19:17.11 | umdk1d3-io | pcjjman-io: is who im with |
| 19:17.18 | umdk1d3-io | also someone else i recognize |
| 19:17.19 | *** join/#android dmoffett (n=dmoffett@72-254-26-234.client.stsn.net) |
| 19:17.28 | umdk1d3-io | hes been in irc i think |
| 19:17.30 | umdk1d3-io | one of the 50 |
| 19:17.37 | f00f- | ah okay, cool |
| 19:17.39 | umdk1d3-io | oh btw i cant rmember f00f- were you in the 50? |
| 19:17.43 | f00f- | and you? |
| 19:17.44 | f00f- | yes i was |
| 19:17.51 | umdk1d3-io | ooh cool |
| 19:18.00 | f00f- | are you guys breaking for lunch? |
| 19:18.05 | umdk1d3-io | mmm maybe |
| 19:18.12 | umdk1d3-io | might leave someone here to save seats |
| 19:18.41 | umdk1d3-io | is inside the frameowrk next a 201 class? |
| 19:18.48 | htchien | good luck with the Android sessions |
| 19:18.58 | htchien | leave for lunch |
| 19:19.01 | htchien | 81 |
| 19:19.10 | umdk1d3-io | eh lunch is same as yday i think :/ |
| 19:20.33 | f00f- | are we allowed to 'eat' at the sessions? |
| 19:20.43 | f00f- | was the food like takeout-style? |
| 19:21.05 | umdk1d3-io | f00f-: yea |
| 19:21.10 | umdk1d3-io | there was platest and takeout boxes |
| 19:21.16 | umdk1d3-io | but lines are porlly long |
| 19:21.22 | umdk1d3-io | might not make it through before next sessn |
| 19:21.52 | pcjjman-io | http://flickr.com/photos/8326556@N08/ |
| 19:21.58 | umdk1d3-io | yay new pix up |
| 19:23.23 | f00f- | thanks for doing it guys |
| 19:23.28 | umdk1d3-io | :) |
| 19:23.35 | umdk1d3-io | who knows when theyse will end up online |
| 19:23.39 | umdk1d3-io | they are recording |
| 19:23.43 | umdk1d3-io | they might /shudder/ sell it |
| 19:23.49 | umdk1d3-io | cuz it was 400 admission |
| 19:24.11 | f00f- | ya, i think it'll be a hidden URL |
| 19:24.17 | umdk1d3-io | heh |
| 19:24.22 | umdk1d3-io | f00f-: you run linux laptop? |
| 19:24.43 | f00f- | yeah, but i'm not in it right now |
| 19:24.51 | f00f- | i run ubuntu usually |
| 19:24.52 | umdk1d3-io | ah you tried new sdk yhet? |
| 19:24.57 | umdk1d3-io | <3 gentoo here lol |
| 19:25.01 | f00f- | not yet, you? |
| 19:25.05 | umdk1d3-io | i cant get it to unzip :? |
| 19:25.11 | umdk1d3-io | after catting together |
| 19:25.17 | umdk1d3-io | its odd that linxu is only 4 parts |
| 19:25.26 | umdk1d3-io | ooh also f00f- catch me later ;) |
| 19:25.32 | umdk1d3-io | ive got some info |
| 19:25.42 | f00f- | okay!! heh |
| 19:26.36 | f00f- | i love the countdown timer in the back |
| 19:27.06 | umdk1d3-io | lol 3:10 left |
| 19:27.27 | *** join/#android dmoffett (n=dmoffett@72-254-26-234.client.stsn.net) |
| 19:27.40 | umdk1d3-io | yay dmoffett |
| 19:30.43 | f00f- | WTF |
| 19:30.45 | f00f- | it's increasing |
| 19:30.47 | f00f- | the counter |
| 19:31.07 | trigatch4 | what countdown timer? |
| 19:31.11 | f00f- | in the back |
| 19:31.21 | f00f- | negative overflow :O |
| 19:31.22 | f00f- | or something |
| 19:31.26 | trigatch4 | are you at google i/o as we speak? |
| 19:31.36 | f00f- | yes sir |
| 19:31.38 | trigatch4 | me = jealous as i sit here in baltimore, md |
| 19:31.53 | umdk1d3-io | lol |
| 19:31.55 | trigatch4 | any good android stuff today? |
| 19:32.04 | umdk1d3-io | trigatch4: in depth dalvik stuff just finished |
| 19:32.14 | umdk1d3-io | slides are online here |
| 19:32.15 | umdk1d3-io | 13:21 < pcjjman-io> http://flickr.com/photos/8326556@N08/ |
| 19:32.29 | trigatch4 | yall will have to keep me posted so I can release some breaking news on phandroid.com ;) |
| 19:32.32 | trigatch4 | brb |
| 19:33.19 | umdk1d3-io | trigatch4: you see new sdk shots from ydays keynote? |
| 19:33.31 | umdk1d3-io | we psoted a bunch at that url above |
| 19:40.52 | trigatch4 | nice... only wish i had the audio to go along |
| 19:41.00 | trigatch4 | thanks umdk1d3-io |
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| 20:37.13 | f00f- | haha |
| 20:37.19 | f00f- | "what was the intent of the map activity" |
| 20:37.27 | f00f- | "purpose" |
| 20:42.33 | umdk1d3-io | yay wireless |
| 20:45.17 | *** join/#android htchien_ (n=chatzill@72-254-10-118.client.stsn.net) |
| 20:47.05 | htchien_ | so people left for next session? |
| 20:48.20 | *** join/#android AstainHellbring (n=Administ@unaffiliated/astainhellbring) |
| 20:49.06 | f00f- | i like the music |
| 20:49.51 | htchien_ | so do I |
| 20:50.26 | htchien_ | ok, I'm here for the Mobile Mashup |
| 20:50.38 | f00f- | htchien_: come to the right side |
| 20:51.08 | htchien | I'm on the left side already |
| 20:51.16 | f00f- | boo |
| 20:55.14 | f00f- | do you know if the android fireside chat is in this room, too? |
| 20:56.04 | htchien | I think it's in another room |
| 20:57.03 | htchien | it's in FireChat room |
| 20:57.28 | f00f- | level 2? |
| 20:57.34 | htchien | yes |
| 21:04.35 | htchien | Chicago Crime Data System? |
| 21:04.40 | romainguy | re |
| 21:04.51 | f00f- | nice, i remember reading abot this |
| 21:10.33 | f00f- | you at i/o romain? |
| 21:10.59 | *** join/#android dmoffett (n=dmoffett@72-254-26-234.client.stsn.net) |
| 21:11.21 | f00f- | wait, is dan using Comic Sans as his font in eclipse?! |
| 21:11.30 | f00f- | ok nvm, he increased font size |
| 21:11.31 | f00f- | whew |
| 21:11.33 | htchien | :) |
| 21:12.02 | umdk1d3-io | looool |
| 21:12.18 | htchien | lol |
| 21:13.25 | Dougie187 | f00f- no romain is in france |
| 21:14.18 | f00f- | oh right, vacation |
| 21:14.22 | Dougie187 | yup |
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| 21:33.26 | tomgibara | I'm shocked by that presentation, specifically that there's no JIT. |
| 21:33.57 | *** join/#android dmoffett (n=dmoffett@12.153.255.213) |
| 21:34.03 | f00f- | hahahaha wtf |
| 21:34.12 | tomgibara | The lack of commitment to that I think effectively means that I will need to terminate my development of Moseycode for Android. |
| 21:34.34 | f00f- | ok this guy is building my app in 10 minutes |
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| 21:36.36 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 21:37.00 | htchien | lol |
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| 21:47.25 | f00f- | "hard drive" ? |
| 21:47.38 | f00f- | rofl |
| 21:48.56 | htchien | maybe "massive storage".... |
| 21:57.39 | htchien | leaving for FireChat already? |
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| 22:06.56 | htchien | Room 3 topic: Google Web Toolkit with Android and OpenSocial |
| 22:17.44 | umdk1d3-io | rawr in fireside |
| 22:17.49 | umdk1d3-io | its paaaaaacked lol |
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| 22:26.55 | umdk1d3-io | "we woulndt have done our job if we didnt provide a methhod for deveopers to get their applications out ot users" |
| 22:26.58 | umdk1d3-io | AHA!!! |
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| 22:33.03 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 22:33.50 | Dougie187 | that is a joke and a half |
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| 22:39.20 | umdk1d3-io | ooh bringign up new sdk |
| 22:39.28 | Dougie187 | nice |
| 22:49.54 | romainguy | tomgibara: I'm shocked by that presentation, specifically that there's no JIT. << how is that shocking? |
| 22:50.44 | tomgibara | romainguy: I'm shocked that (if I understand the slides correctly) there's no intention of adding one |
| 22:51.03 | romainguy | not soon |
| 22:51.19 | romainguy | a JIT is a lot of work and doesn't have only advantages |
| 22:51.28 | tomgibara | not before the first handsets are launched I assume |
| 22:51.31 | romainguy | for instance, it requires quite a lot of memory |
| 22:51.42 | romainguy | which can be painful on mobile phones |
| 22:51.55 | romainguy | now the good news is Android performance are actually very good on actual hardware |
| 22:52.49 | tomgibara | I appreciate that there are trade offs with JITing and memory can be one of them, but I think there remain compelling reasons for them |
| 22:53.07 | tomgibara | or rather, compelling reasons why performance really matters: |
| 22:53.16 | romainguy | performance matters |
| 22:53.28 | romainguy | but we use Android everyday on actual hardware, so we know what performance is like |
| 22:53.35 | romainguy | that doesn |
| 22:53.41 | romainguy | that doesn't mean a JIT would not be awesome |
| 22:53.48 | tomgibara | In my growing experience of sofwtare development, I've come to recognize performance as one of the cornerstones of code reusability |
| 22:54.05 | romainguy | I'm just saying it is not necessary right now to deliver a good user experience |
| 22:54.31 | romainguy | in many profilings I've done, the application was not always CPU-bound |
| 22:54.45 | romainguy | a cell phone hardware is slow at so many levels... |
| 22:55.22 | tomgibara | Obviously my application is somewhat different in character than many but... |
| 22:56.05 | romainguy | unfortunately I have to admit heavy image processing is not the kind of application I have in mind when I profile Android's framework :) |
| 22:56.42 | romainguy | My point is just that: JIT are great, but they have tradeoffs (one being the amount of work it requires) and actual performance are good today on real hardware |
| 22:57.44 | tomgibara | talking generally, and not about my application, not providing an effective way for code to be 'fast' actually subtly limits the scope for development on the platform |
| 22:58.25 | tomgibara | because it limits reuse, not because it's necessarily slow for end users |
| 22:58.38 | romainguy | a JIT is not the only way to make code fast |
| 22:59.01 | romainguy | btw, did anybody got the new SDK here? |
| 22:59.05 | romainguy | f00f-? |
| 22:59.16 | Dougie187 | umdk1d3-io said he was going for it earlier. |
| 22:59.27 | Dougie187 | have you heard if the rest of the community can get access to it yet? |
| 22:59.34 | romainguy | I cannot answer that question |
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| 22:59.37 | Dougie187 | i was expecting to hear an announcement last friday or tuesday. |
| 22:59.39 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 22:59.43 | romainguy | :) |
| 23:00.02 | Dougie187 | i just remember jasonchen saying the announcement would be made Tuesday EOD at the latest. |
| 23:00.05 | tomgibara | My understanding is that the interpreter has an overhead of 20 cycles for any operation, is that true? |
| 23:00.06 | htchien | :) |
| 23:00.09 | Dougie187 | and still... no announcement. |
| 23:00.31 | romainguy | tomgibara: that number is probably outdated |
| 23:01.08 | donomo | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:01.40 | tomgibara | even if it's more like 5 or 10, it means that for simple arithmetic operations the interpreter loop is eating most of of your CPU time |
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| 23:02.06 | tomgibara | Basically, the interpreter puts a pretty hard floor underneath the possible performance. |
| 23:02.33 | tomgibara | As you optimize your code down to simpler operations, the interpreter overhead grows rapidly |
| 23:02.50 | romainguy | sure |
| 23:02.51 | romainguy | but again |
| 23:02.56 | romainguy | a JIT has drawbacks too |
| 23:03.15 | romainguy | if using a JIT means we need to kick out other apps more often because of memory usage, that's not a performance improvement |
| 23:03.29 | romainguy | I'm not defending an interpreter against a JIT |
| 23:03.47 | romainguy | I'm just saying that a JIT is not necessarily a magical solution on this environment |
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| 23:03.55 | romainguy | believe me, we care a lot about performance |
| 23:04.11 | tomgibara | I understand that in any worthwhile engineering problem, the issues and tradeoffs are always subtle |
| 23:04.36 | romainguy | but right now, there are many things that can be done (and must be done) that are much more easy and important than having a JIT |
| 23:05.07 | romainguy | (again, not in your case) |
| 23:05.32 | tomgibara | Yes, it wasn't a tantrum that caused me to make my comment, just an acceptance of the facts. |
| 23:05.41 | romainguy | I totally understand |
| 23:05.57 | tomgibara | A company have independently implemented Moseycode for the iPhone and comfortably get 20fps |
| 23:06.11 | tomgibara | That's the stark reality for me to deal with. |
| 23:06.29 | romainguy | Until you've tried to run Moseycode on an Android phone that has the equivalent hardware... |
| 23:06.41 | romainguy | the iPhone has pretty beefy hardware for a phone :( |
| 23:07.47 | tomgibara | Yes, which is why I feel compelled to halt development until I have a production ready (or nearly) phone to run it on. |
| 23:08.05 | tomgibara | I'm pretty cut up about it because I love the platform. |
| 23:08.30 | romainguy | Why are you compelled to halt? |
| 23:08.51 | tomgibara | I think I've done a really good job in designing the symbology etc. and the specifications and there are many things that people want to do with the platform. |
| 23:09.24 | tomgibara | I don't have a job at the moment, I'm a floating consultant/contractor, so I really have to justify the time I spend |
| 23:09.51 | tomgibara | Both for my family and for other developers who believe in Moseycode and have commited their time to it. |
| 23:09.52 | romainguy | ah yes that I can understand |
| 23:11.46 | tomgibara | Irrationally, I had predicted some form of targetted AOT compiler that could take annotated methods and compile them |
| 23:12.11 | romainguy | I thought about that too :) |
| 23:14.24 | tomgibara | Well, if you know a company that's looking for an eager Android developer... that might be my only route to continuing with the platform in the short term. |
| 23:14.35 | tomgibara | I really have never had as much fun creating client focused applications, as I have with Android |
| 23:15.05 | romainguy | I'm glad to hear that :) |
| 23:15.52 | tomgibara | Thanks for the talk. |
| 23:24.32 | romainguy | umdk1d3-io: are you around? |
| 23:24.43 | tomgibara | romainguy: btw - I just saw your question above, I actually have the new SDK because I'm helping out one of the phase 1 winners. Any reason for asking? |
| 23:25.10 | romainguy | yes |
| 23:25.19 | romainguy | can I send you a private message? |
| 23:25.58 | tomgibara | sure |
| 23:26.08 | romainguy | done :) |
| 23:32.33 | umdk1d3-io | ooh its tom |
| 23:32.45 | umdk1d3-io | tom you here at io? |
| 23:34.49 | umdk1d3-io | patching sys partiton wriitng, base firmare foor radio updates, and app install |
| 23:35.04 | Dougie187 | umdk1d3-io did you get the new sdk? |
| 23:35.06 | umdk1d3-io | those are the 4 types of updates supported |
| 23:35.16 | umdk1d3-io | yep it was a bit slow |
| 23:35.22 | umdk1d3-io | ohwait crap |
| 23:35.23 | Dougie187 | is it pretty sweet so far? |
| 23:35.32 | umdk1d3-io | ami azlowed tosaythat lol |
| 23:35.40 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 23:35.41 | Dougie187 | ionno |
| 23:35.44 | Dougie187 | ask romainguy |
| 23:35.53 | umdk1d3-io | needd to look bax at nda |
| 23:35.57 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 23:36.09 | umdk1d3-io | i was on a cra'ppy celeron lappie |
| 23:36.19 | Dougie187 | `heh |
| 23:36.21 | Dougie187 | it happens |
| 23:37.05 | umdk1d3-io | almost done with fireside sessn |
| 23:37.47 | Dougie187 | cool |
| 23:37.52 | Dougie187 | is it good? |
| 23:38.11 | umdk1d3-io | lots of good qauestions |
| 23:38.21 | umdk1d3-io | stupid nokia kbdlol- |
| 23:38.28 | Dougie187 | i hope theres a video of it up soon |
| 23:38.30 | umdk1d3-io | tiny little bugger |
| 23:38.41 | umdk1d3-io | i heard 2wks as a rumor |
| 23:38.46 | umdk1d3-io | public utube |
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| 23:40.55 | umdk1d3-io | ooh for later uma and sip |
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| 23:48.23 | romainguy | any news from jasta btw? |
| 23:48.39 | Dougie187 | nope |
| 23:48.46 | Dougie187 | havent talked to him since yesterday morning |
| 23:49.04 | romainguy | he seemed so eager to meet the Android team and talk about the new SDK... :) |
| 23:49.14 | Dougie187 | hah |
| 23:49.20 | Dougie187 | i dont know if you mean talk. |
| 23:49.24 | Dougie187 | and meet. |
| 23:49.30 | romainguy | lol |
| 23:49.35 | Dougie187 | as in hold hostage and negotiate the public release of. |
| 23:49.41 | Dougie187 | then i would agree. |
| 23:50.27 | umdk1d3-io | looool |
| 23:50.43 | umdk1d3-io | actually jasta just walked past me like 5mins ago |
| 23:50.47 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 23:50.55 | umdk1d3-io | i guess he was heading home |
| 23:51.51 | Dougie187 | did he enjoy the sessions |
| 23:52.15 | umdk1d3-io | ithink he did |
| 23:52.19 | Dougie187 | thats good. |
| 23:52.28 | Dougie187 | i know he was not really looking forward to them before he left. |
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