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| 00:18.26 | wastrel | hi |
| 00:18.36 | duey | hhi |
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| 00:28.07 | jasta | hey duey |
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| 12:39.32 | Dougie187 | Good morning everyone. |
| 12:40.26 | volmaria1 | oxymoron |
| 12:40.29 | volmaria1 | mornings are not good |
| 12:40.35 | Dougie187 | mine are most days. |
| 12:40.46 | Dougie187 | i guess it depends on what you do in the morning |
| 12:43.49 | Dougie187 | what makes your mornings not good? |
| 12:44.59 | volmaria1 | waking up >_< |
| 12:45.07 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 12:45.11 | Dougie187 | well waking up isnt all that great. |
| 12:45.53 | Dougie187 | but after i take a shower im fine. |
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| 13:14.54 | Dougie187 | could this also be referring to the first android devices? |
| 13:14.55 | Dougie187 | http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/02/nvidia-launches-tegra-hopes-to-change-the-smartphone-mid-game/ |
| 13:15.09 | Dougie187 | products planned Q4 2008. |
| 13:18.25 | volmaria1 | Any idea on whether the initial android devices will have 3d acceleration? |
| 13:18.49 | Dougie187 | you could ask the ADC1 winners, but they will get sued after they answer. |
| 13:18.58 | Dougie187 | also you have to find a way into their private IRC room |
| 13:19.29 | volmaria1 | eh. |
| 13:19.46 | mazzen | private irc room? |
| 13:19.47 | mazzen | hm.. |
| 13:19.51 | Dougie187 | yeah |
| 13:19.59 | Dougie187 | they made one last week, so they could get help. |
| 13:20.06 | Dougie187 | becuase they cant talk about the SDK in here. |
| 13:20.26 | mazzen | is there a "hacking-android-on-hardware" channel also? ;-) |
| 13:20.34 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 13:20.35 | vol | ha |
| 13:20.39 | Dougie187 | not that i know of. |
| 13:20.51 | mazzen | args :-| |
| 13:21.02 | Dougie187 | just wait for the source to come out. |
| 13:21.10 | Dougie187 | then you can probably find out how to do that fairly easy. |
| 13:21.22 | mazzen | hm... |
| 13:21.44 | mazzen | in fact i would love to do it right now. |
| 13:21.56 | Dougie187 | some people have done it with an N810 |
| 13:22.01 | Dougie187 | possibly an N800 as well |
| 13:22.21 | mazzen | yes, but they did not build an "image" file, which you can flash to a cell phone |
| 13:22.45 | mazzen | for the n8xx stuff, you copy the android file system on a card |
| 13:22.58 | Dougie187 | nope. as far as i know, noone (except google maybe, or other OHA members) has a copy of android working on a cell phone |
| 13:23.30 | mazzen | and what's with the videos on youtube? |
| 13:23.40 | Dougie187 | which ones? |
| 13:23.52 | Dougie187 | ive only seen ones from google. |
| 13:24.23 | mazzen | http://youtube.com/watch?v=muIqc7TP1bs |
| 13:24.30 | mazzen | this one is a real old video |
| 13:24.59 | mazzen | and these are not google staff, or? |
| 13:25.20 | Dougie187 | i dont think these are google employees, but ionno. write them an email. |
| 13:26.02 | mazzen | hehe |
| 13:26.15 | mazzen | i fear, they got *a lot* of mails, because of this |
| 13:26.31 | Dougie187 | probably. |
| 13:26.51 | Dougie187 | i dont know how they would actually be running android. |
| 13:27.24 | Dougie187 | unless it was just the SDK, and they were running the emulator. |
| 13:27.26 | Dougie187 | but ionno. |
| 13:28.30 | mazzen | hm... i think, they did it the same way like the nokia nxx people |
| 13:28.46 | Dougie187 | well, they say they can make calls with it. |
| 13:28.49 | Dougie187 | though they never demo that. |
| 13:28.51 | Dougie187 | ionno |
| 13:28.58 | mazzen | yes, that's strange... |
| 13:29.07 | Dougie187 | and they dont talk about a service provider |
| 13:29.24 | Dougie187 | personally, id be skeptical. |
| 13:29.33 | mazzen | anyway, i would really chat about this |
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| 13:29.48 | Dougie187 | my bet is its the same as what they did on the nokias, but thats not really running android if i understand it right. |
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| 13:31.11 | zhobbs_ | http://www.thestreet.com/s/source-gphone-delayed-to-2009/newsanalysis/techtelecom/10419263.html?puc=googlen&cm_ven=GOOGLEN&cm_cat=FREE&cm_ite=NA |
| 13:32.22 | Dougie187 | hows it going zhobbs_ |
| 13:32.47 | zhobbs_ | it's good |
| 13:32.50 | zhobbs_ | worn out form IO |
| 13:32.55 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 13:33.01 | Dougie187 | you are in ADC1 R2 right? |
| 13:33.31 | zhobbs_ | yea |
| 13:33.42 | Dougie187 | hows that IRC room going? |
| 13:34.08 | zhobbs_ | that IRC room? |
| 13:34.14 | mazzen | zhobbs_, thanks, that's interesting. but it's from february... so is this still true? i have heard, that the first google phones should be released at the end of 2008 |
| 13:34.17 | Dougie187 | the ADC1 R2 one |
| 13:34.39 | zhobbs_ | mazzen: didn't notice it was that old |
| 13:34.40 | Dougie187 | google even states that it should be released 2nd half of 08 |
| 13:34.56 | mazzen | ah, ok |
| 13:34.57 | Dougie187 | its not old, it says 6/02/08 on it. |
| 13:35.03 | vol | it's from today |
| 13:35.06 | zhobbs_ | oh |
| 13:35.09 | vol | june 2, not feb 6 |
| 13:35.12 | mazzen | ah :-) |
| 13:35.13 | zhobbs_ | I think it's bs |
| 13:35.15 | vol | us wacky americans and our dating system |
| 13:35.27 | mazzen | typicall mistake for a german :) |
| 13:35.31 | zhobbs_ | Dougie187: didn't know there was a R2 irc room |
| 13:35.50 | vol | Also, what the heck is round 2 going to be, anyway |
| 13:35.53 | Dougie187 | yeah you will have to ask f00f- or muthu |
| 13:36.05 | Dougie187 | they know the detials. |
| 13:36.11 | Dougie187 | i think f00f- set it up. |
| 13:36.22 | Dougie187 | they did it cuz of the NDA so they can't ask questions in here about the SDK |
| 13:36.27 | zhobbs_ | yeah |
| 13:36.30 | mazzen | but anyway. does anyone know, what dio or m0 files are or even better: how they are created? |
| 13:37.03 | vol | how they're created is easy: when a developer and an IDE love each other very much... |
| 13:37.12 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 13:37.22 | mazzen | rofl |
| 13:37.23 | mazzen | heeh |
| 13:37.37 | Dougie187 | whyd you choose IDE? |
| 13:38.23 | mazzen | thinks about finding this IDE and start to love it |
| 13:39.00 | mazzen | so vol, please tell me where i can find *her* ;) |
| 13:39.01 | vol | because I love eclipse with all of my body (including my peepee) |
| 13:39.12 | vol | on an unrelated note.... |
| 13:39.18 | Dougie187 | that is interested. |
| 13:39.21 | vol | i'm trying to introduce unit testing to my project. |
| 13:39.22 | Dougie187 | i mean interesting. |
| 13:39.29 | vol | So, I have a service that I start |
| 13:39.34 | Dougie187 | what is your project again? |
| 13:39.36 | vol | but I want to have a mock version that acts slightly differently |
| 13:39.42 | vol | driving directions |
| 13:39.47 | Dougie187 | oh yes. |
| 13:39.52 | Dougie187 | didnt you have to do that proposal? |
| 13:40.02 | vol | I did, I'm sure I'll hear back in a week |
| 13:40.05 | Dougie187 | cool |
| 13:40.06 | vol | till then, I have nothing else to do |
| 13:40.07 | vol | so! |
| 13:40.10 | vol | I have a service |
| 13:40.15 | vol | part of what it does is use a location provider |
| 13:40.23 | vol | I want to extend the service to use a different location provider that I can control |
| 13:40.26 | vol | for the sake of unit testing |
| 13:40.32 | Dougie187 | ok |
| 13:40.34 | vol | so, extending the service isn't hard |
| 13:40.43 | vol | what I'm curious about is how I modify the AIDL interface |
| 13:40.49 | vol | so that I can bind to that interface |
| 13:40.52 | vol | but get the mock service |
| 13:41.09 | vol | aidl doesn't seem to define "extends" for interfaces |
| 13:41.17 | Dougie187 | yeah i dont know. |
| 13:41.26 | Dougie187 | i havent messed with it enough. plus i dont have the SDK around. |
| 13:41.32 | Dougie187 | not till i get my laptop back |
| 13:41.37 | vol | I'm really hoping the answer isn't "keep different manifest files for release and testing" |
| 13:42.22 | vol | I remember something about setting prefrred activities |
| 13:42.22 | Dougie187 | too bad google isnt awake yet |
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| 13:52.35 | vol | Excellent! |
| 13:52.42 | vol | All I have to do is add a seperate category in the manifest |
| 13:52.49 | Dougie187 | nice |
| 13:52.52 | vol | for something like Intent.FRAMEWORK_INSTRUMENTATION_TEST_CATEGORY |
| 13:53.00 | vol | and then add that category to my intent |
| 13:53.53 | Dougie187 | well thats cool. |
| 13:53.58 | Dougie187 | so your going to be testing your app soon? |
| 13:55.16 | vol | well |
| 13:55.19 | vol | unit testing, yes. |
| 13:55.26 | vol | testing for general consumption, no. |
| 13:55.34 | vol | expect that to happen a year from now |
| 13:55.40 | vol | assuming that this project gets the goahead at all |
| 13:55.52 | Dougie187 | yeah |
| 13:55.58 | Dougie187 | but you are hoping you get the goahead. |
| 13:56.32 | vol | yes, but I'm not sure that'll happen |
| 13:57.08 | vol | for business reasons I won't disclose, it'd probably be smarter for me to work on other things |
| 13:57.16 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 13:57.17 | Dougie187 | ok |
| 13:57.33 | vol | even if I really would like to do this, and my boss would love it to happen too |
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| 14:25.13 | jasta | yawn |
| 14:25.21 | Dougie187 | good morning jasta |
| 14:29.04 | jasta | mornin |
| 14:29.20 | Dougie187 | hey are you writing your rhythmbox plugin in python? |
| 14:29.25 | jasta | no |
| 14:30.25 | Dougie187 | what are you writing it in? |
| 14:30.43 | jasta | C |
| 14:30.47 | Dougie187 | oh ok |
| 14:30.56 | Dougie187 | only the best. |
| 14:30.57 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 14:31.13 | jasta | the code will be most reusable as C. |
| 14:31.29 | jasta | also, i will be using libsyncml as the client library |
| 14:31.46 | Dougie187 | cool |
| 14:33.40 | jasta | and there are no python bindings, afaik. |
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| 14:38.57 | Dougie187 | i just read something that talked about making plugins in python. |
| 14:39.17 | Dougie187 | isnt this python? |
| 14:39.17 | Dougie187 | http://live.gnome.org/RhythmboxPlugins/WritingGuide#head-107f4ab8e7fc1bf19226417bbb3ef55daf09d3db |
| 14:40.26 | jasta | yes, but i meant for libsyncml |
| 14:40.33 | Dougie187 | oh |
| 14:40.33 | Dougie187 | ok |
| 14:40.47 | jasta | SyncML, as it turns out, is not a very well supported protocol :) |
| 14:41.03 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 14:41.06 | Dougie187 | that happens. |
| 14:41.14 | jasta | Basically, libsyncml is it. There's sync4j but it's frankly shite. To the point that I rolled my own Java client library for Android. |
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| 14:41.48 | jasta | And even libsyncml has major problems. Seems to have lots of leaks that need to be plugged, an incomplete API, and the client support is very new and does not work right. |
| 14:41.53 | jasta | I will need to dig in and extend it substantially |
| 14:42.05 | Dougie187 | thats too bad. |
| 14:42.32 | wastrel | dbm/win 23 |
| 14:44.18 | jasta | Yeah, but at least it's less work than doing it all from scratch. |
| 14:44.36 | jasta | and ultimately i think lots of other Android projects could end up taking advantage of this work. |
| 14:44.45 | Dougie187 | true |
| 14:44.54 | Dougie187 | i need to figure out if there is a way to use JTAPI with it |
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| 14:56.06 | cutmasta | is away (away) |
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| 15:34.14 | Dougie187 | heh. |
| 15:34.18 | Dougie187 | hey zhobbs_ |
| 15:34.18 | Dougie187 | http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/02/krakow-says-gphone-is-delayed-to-2009-wait-what/ |
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| 15:34.34 | jasta | hey f00f |
| 15:36.07 | zhobbs_ | Dougie187: saw that...I'd be surprised if we didn't see any phones this year |
| 15:37.37 | Dougie187 | i think id be more disappointed then surprised. heh |
| 15:37.55 | Dougie187 | especially after everything thats happened so far. |
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| 15:41.26 | Dougie187 | i like how jasonchen sneaks out after he sees that post. |
| 15:41.26 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 15:41.48 | jasta | i was not real happy with him when i was at I/O. |
| 15:41.59 | Dougie187 | i remember hearing that. |
| 15:42.10 | Dougie187 | he didnt have the responses planned out as he told you he would. |
| 15:42.12 | Dougie187 | right? |
| 15:42.26 | zhobbs_ | I think he might not be real happy with me |
| 15:42.33 | Dougie187 | how come? |
| 15:42.39 | zhobbs_ | for posting about the sdk thing |
| 15:42.49 | Dougie187 | where? |
| 15:42.51 | jasta | yeah, he clearly just tried to placate. |
| 15:42.54 | Dougie187 | or do you mean the NDA thing? |
| 15:43.01 | jasta | zhobbs_: You were not otherwise required to keep silent. |
| 15:43.07 | zhobbs_ | Dougie187: just the story on helloandroid.com |
| 15:43.11 | jasta | Afterall, the NDA can't preclude you from mentioning the NDA. |
| 15:43.11 | Dougie187 | oh ok |
| 15:43.15 | Dougie187 | i didnt notice that was you. |
| 15:43.24 | zhobbs_ | jasta: I actually got an ok to post it beforehand |
| 15:43.39 | jasta | Well, you didn't need the OK ;) |
| 15:43.42 | zhobbs_ | yeah |
| 15:43.52 | Dougie187 | heh i think hes not happy about it because we keep hassling him. |
| 15:44.00 | Dougie187 | he was supposed to give us an announcement two weeks ago. |
| 15:44.24 | Dougie187 | Still nothing. |
| 15:44.33 | jasta | Dougie187: if my impression is anything to go on, Google clearly does not appreciate the gravity of this situation. |
| 15:44.59 | Dougie187 | nor do a lot of other people though. |
| 15:45.04 | zhobbs_ | they're just going to wait it out...the issue will be gone in 2 months |
| 15:45.25 | Dougie187 | heh hopefully. |
| 15:45.28 | jasta | i doubt very much that the NDA will be that well aligned with the ADC. |
| 15:45.36 | Dougie187 | though i heard the SDK wont go public until handsets are out. |
| 15:45.49 | jasta | afterall, their words explain that the next release will be in several months. |
| 15:45.51 | Dougie187 | i heard SDK + Source + ADC2 will all happen at about the same time. |
| 15:46.27 | Dougie187 | watch, only the 20 winners of ADC1 R2 get the next SDK release |
| 15:49.09 | muthu | Dougie187: what? |
| 15:49.30 | Dougie187 | im extending the current SDK issue to the future of ADC |
| 15:49.59 | muthu | oh ok |
| 15:50.25 | Dougie187 | to say they will do the same thing with the current round winners and the next SDK release |
| 15:50.54 | michaelnovakjr__ | so when was the 'big' announcement |
| 15:51.02 | Dougie187 | hah, |
| 15:51.05 | Dougie187 | a while ago |
| 15:51.09 | Dougie187 | well |
| 15:51.10 | michaelnovakjr__ | what did it say? |
| 15:51.13 | Dougie187 | supposed to be a while ago |
| 15:51.18 | Dougie187 | but it hasnt come out still |
| 15:51.20 | michaelnovakjr__ | hah |
| 15:52.58 | jasta | michaelnovakjr__: i talked to Dan and Jason at I/O... |
| 15:53.03 | jasta | neither one of them had anything more to say |
| 15:53.09 | Dougie187 | yeah i know. |
| 15:53.10 | michaelnovakjr__ | that's great |
| 15:53.22 | Dougie187 | they havent had anything to say in a while. |
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| 15:53.39 | Dougie187 | but jason said they were waiting for... Andy? (i dont remember if thats his name) to let them know what they could do. |
| 15:54.21 | jasta | the bottom line is that this is going nowhere, and for now, it makes sense to ignore android. |
| 15:54.39 | michaelnovakjr__ | i haven't spent anytime looking at it |
| 15:54.45 | Dougie187 | me either. |
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| 15:54.56 | jasta | btw, the I/O sessions on Android were mostly ridiculous :) |
| 15:54.59 | Dougie187 | especially since we cant use the new SDK |
| 15:55.02 | jasta | even the Dalvik talk was kind of "yeah? so what." |
| 15:55.08 | Dougie187 | heh, i thought some of the keynote stuff was cool. |
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| 15:55.12 | muthu | mostly basic |
| 15:55.14 | Dougie187 | with the new sdk stuff. |
| 15:55.28 | Dougie187 | i thought the locking thing was cool |
| 15:55.32 | muthu | the firechat was good |
| 15:55.41 | zhobbs_ | dalvik one was interesting |
| 15:55.49 | zhobbs_ | first keynote was good |
| 15:55.52 | muthu | where you got some ideas about future of android |
| 15:56.00 | zhobbs_ | fireside was pretty good |
| 15:56.10 | zhobbs_ | otherwise not much going on |
| 15:56.17 | michaelnovakjr__ | i'm going to join the LinMo bandwagon |
| 15:56.34 | Dougie187 | are you leaving android then? |
| 15:56.39 | wastrel | linmo what now? |
| 15:57.02 | michaelnovakjr__ | i'm going to pay android no attention till i actually see it on a phone and being used by people |
| 15:57.15 | muthu | i know a few people got excited and pumped up |
| 15:57.19 | muthu | after the fire chat |
| 15:57.20 | zhobbs_ | it's probably closer than limo right? |
| 15:57.35 | muthu | and are jumping back into android again |
| 15:57.47 | Dougie187 | how can they jump back into android? |
| 15:57.51 | zhobbs_ | muthu: yeah, fireside was good...though they "beat around the bush" too much on a couple of topics |
| 15:57.53 | michaelnovakjr__ | haha |
| 15:58.05 | Dougie187 | zhobbs_ thats what i heard. |
| 15:58.07 | michaelnovakjr__ | its a waste man, the sdk is totally useless |
| 15:58.10 | jasta | maybe i didn't attend the same conference you guys did :) |
| 15:58.13 | Dougie187 | i heard they were good at dodgin questions. |
| 15:58.18 | muthu | i'm surprised even andy doesn't have direct answers |
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| 15:58.32 | michaelnovakjr__ | i'm not |
| 15:59.01 | Dougie187 | lol even from the QA session on day one, the video i saw he didnt really answer questions right. |
| 15:59.12 | jasta | i do appreciate the precarious position they are in with respect to the OHA, but i don't agree with their "lead by good example" mantra. |
| 15:59.21 | jasta | basically, because they are not setting a good example of openness so far. |
| 15:59.42 | Dougie187 | yeah, and i dont like their attitude towards the development community. |
| 15:59.44 | jasta | they can't have their cake and eat it too. |
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| 16:00.42 | zhobbs_ | jasta: I'm glad they aren't using a license that dictates exactly what you can do with android though |
| 16:01.13 | michaelnovakjr__ | their attitude sucks |
| 16:01.37 | jasta | zhobbs_: agreed, any other license would have been a mistake |
| 16:01.51 | jasta | but that doesn't excuse the fact that they are hiding behind a strategy they haven't adopted. |
| 16:01.57 | Dougie187 | i dont appreciate how in their mind the development community consists of the OHA members, and the top 50 ADC teams. |
| 16:02.20 | zhobbs_ | I think they should have had OHA members represented at the fireside chat |
| 16:02.30 | jasta | zhobbs_: repeated claims of openness in a community that could only be described as closed and privatized. |
| 16:02.30 | zhobbs_ | at least a couple |
| 16:02.52 | Dougie187 | what would you have wanted to get from them though? |
| 16:02.55 | jasta | you know i was talking to some folks from Motorola just before I left on Wed and was on my soap box about all this mess |
| 16:02.57 | muthu | i'll be happy when its opensourced |
| 16:03.03 | jasta | they seemed VERY alarmed. |
| 16:03.30 | zhobbs_ | Dougie187: ask the carriers if they plan on crippling android, or limiting package deployment in any way, etc |
| 16:03.33 | jasta | as in, they wanted to go back to their boss and re-evaluate their teams interest in Android. |
| 16:03.47 | Dougie187 | that would be interesting to hear, from carriers at least. |
| 16:03.54 | michaelnovakjr__ | muthu dont hold your breath |
| 16:03.57 | jasta | zhobbs_: let's just reasonably assume that they will :) |
| 16:04.00 | Dougie187 | i have been thinking for a little while they would probably cripple it somewhat. |
| 16:04.09 | Dougie187 | though, one thing i was thinking. |
| 16:04.18 | Dougie187 | is that if they do put android on a handset, and cripple it. |
| 16:04.27 | Dougie187 | couldnt you just "reinstall" a non-crippled version on it? |
| 16:04.33 | zhobbs_ | Dougie187: yeah |
| 16:04.39 | jasta | i wouldn't be so quick to assume that |
| 16:04.44 | michaelnovakjr__ | yea me too |
| 16:04.52 | michaelnovakjr__ | hardware drivers fellas |
| 16:05.04 | zhobbs_ | jasta: jason chen made it seem so in the "intro" session |
| 16:05.04 | jasta | if the interface between PC and device was proprietary and unusual, then how would you? |
| 16:05.05 | michaelnovakjr__ | wifi, radio.... |
| 16:05.06 | Dougie187 | true. i guess jasonchen did say not all the hardware drivers would be opensourced. |
| 16:05.28 | jasta | zhobbs_: what jason made it seem to be is not what it is. |
| 16:05.38 | zhobbs_ | well, he said anyone can create images...I guess getting them on the phone is different |
| 16:05.45 | michaelnovakjr__ | maybe we will see a reverse engineered open source version of some of the radio drivers |
| 16:06.05 | jasta | zhobbs_: of course. like i said, if the interface between the PC and phone is proprietary and unusual, how would you get around it? you'd end up going through a major hack fest just to get your image uploaded. |
| 16:06.14 | Dougie187 | i thought this video was funny. |
| 16:06.15 | Dougie187 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ffsjp0D1ZE |
| 16:06.17 | jasta | then comes the interesting part of how does your image differ from the one that was on there in the first place? will it even work!? |
| 16:06.24 | jasta | bbl, gotta run to work |
| 16:06.26 | michaelnovakjr__ | exactly! |
| 16:07.44 | muthu | hey, anyone unit tested android code? |
| 16:07.48 | muthu | how do you do them? |
| 16:07.59 | Dougie187 | vol was talking about that earlier. |
| 16:08.00 | michaelnovakjr__ | didn't waste any time doing thatj |
| 16:08.07 | muthu | haha |
| 16:08.17 | Dougie187 | muthu gets to waste time doing that |
| 16:08.18 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 16:08.21 | Dougie187 | hes one of the lucky 50 |
| 16:08.32 | muthu | agree |
| 16:08.40 | muthu | glad to be there |
| 16:08.42 | Dougie187 | hows the secret IRC room muthu? |
| 16:08.47 | muthu | oh oh |
| 16:09.09 | Dougie187 | did dan end up joining you guys? |
| 16:09.20 | muthu | Dougie187: no, not many participants now |
| 16:09.28 | Dougie187 | just you and f00f? |
| 16:09.35 | muthu | and a few more |
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| 16:10.09 | Dougie187 | sounds like fun. |
| 16:10.14 | Dougie187 | your still in San Fran, right? |
| 16:10.16 | zhobbs_ | there's a seperate nda for the irc room |
| 16:10.19 | zhobbs_ | :) |
| 16:10.22 | Dougie187 | hah |
| 16:10.22 | muthu | haha |
| 16:10.24 | michaelnovakjr__ | muthu... you wouldn't be pissed if the platform tanked? |
| 16:10.38 | muthu | i'll be pissed a lot |
| 16:10.41 | Dougie187 | he would have already won the money by that point michaelnovakjr__ |
| 16:10.59 | muthu | android is something i'm betting on |
| 16:11.12 | muthu | hope it gets mainstream |
| 16:11.16 | zhobbs_ | muthu: I think it's a good bet |
| 16:11.27 | Dougie187 | so did 1738 teams. |
| 16:11.55 | muthu | yeah, if goog cannot do it.. then who can? |
| 16:12.52 | wastrel | what's 1738? |
| 16:13.03 | Dougie187 | the number of losers from ADC1 R1 |
| 16:14.44 | zhobbs_ | open source projects don't just die unless they deserve to |
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| 16:14.59 | zhobbs_ | I know it's a little different for an embedded system, but still |
| 16:15.04 | Dougie187 | im just saying im sure there are a good portion of the 1738 who believe they deserve to now. |
| 16:15.18 | Dougie187 | or believe it deserves to |
| 16:15.45 | zhobbs_ | if it's any good, but mfgs don't buy into it for some reason we can still get it onto something like openmoko or something |
| 16:16.23 | Dougie187 | well see. i just think a good portion of the community is frustrated with googles attitude towards them. |
| 16:16.29 | zhobbs_ | or onto some of these maybe: |
| 16:16.30 | zhobbs_ | http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT9423084269.html |
| 16:16.40 | michaelnovakjr__ | its not that easy |
| 16:16.42 | Dougie187 | granted, you probably arnt one of them. |
| 16:16.46 | Dougie187 | and muthu isnt either. |
| 16:16.50 | michaelnovakjr__ | and i have a feeling android will disappoint more than it pleases |
| 16:17.14 | Dougie187 | are you sure it will be android that disappoints? rather then the carriers implementation of android? |
| 16:17.24 | zhobbs_ | well, after it's open sourced you can just say "F google" and fork and run |
| 16:17.36 | michaelnovakjr__ | zhobbs_: to a point |
| 16:17.43 | Dougie187 | if anything disappoints, i would think it would be how carriers would adapt it to their hardware. |
| 16:17.52 | michaelnovakjr__ | all that carrier stuff will be missing |
| 16:18.48 | Dougie187 | can a carrier selectively remove features from android under the current license scheme? |
| 16:19.06 | michaelnovakjr__ | i would think so |
| 16:19.10 | zhobbs_ | yes |
| 16:19.11 | zhobbs_ | for sure |
| 16:19.16 | Dougie187 | i dont know a lot about licenses. |
| 16:19.50 | zhobbs_ | why release a less desirable product though? |
| 16:20.03 | Dougie187 | because it benefits them. |
| 16:20.14 | Dougie187 | carriers arn't worried about the consumers. |
| 16:20.17 | zhobbs_ | free market usually works |
| 16:20.21 | Dougie187 | they are worried about the $$ |
| 16:20.34 | zhobbs_ | niches get filled |
| 16:21.19 | Dougie187 | well. one thing i know for instanced, is i have a sanyo katana phone right now (this thing blows) and its through sprint. and sprint made sanyo lock this thing down so you cant do almost anything to it. |
| 16:21.38 | muthu | that's a real problem |
| 16:21.40 | Dougie187 | s/instanced/instance/g |
| 16:21.42 | Dougie187 | yeah |
| 16:22.12 | muthu | the carriers and the oem combination can do anything |
| 16:22.18 | muthu | to benefit their agendas |
| 16:22.25 | Dougie187 | so i would assume, if carriers go that far to do that for this phone (its not even a smartphone) they would probably do that to android as well. |
| 16:22.31 | Dougie187 | exactly muthu |
| 16:22.32 | michaelnovakjr__ | its all a joke if you ask me |
| 16:22.43 | michaelnovakjr__ | media coverage hasn't been that great either |
| 16:22.48 | Dougie187 | yup. |
| 16:22.57 | Dougie187 | it just seems like in the end, its going to be another OS on a phone. |
| 16:23.04 | michaelnovakjr__ | zdnet told them to shut up and show me something |
| 16:23.14 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 16:23.23 | michaelnovakjr__ | enough talking about open source... do it! |
| 16:23.33 | Dougie187 | thats jasta's stance too |
| 16:23.53 | michaelnovakjr__ | no one is talking about the top 50 either |
| 16:24.03 | michaelnovakjr__ | that went by completely unnoticed |
| 16:24.07 | Dougie187 | i saw one other thing about the top 50 a bit a go. |
| 16:24.13 | Dougie187 | maybe last week |
| 16:24.20 | Dougie187 | it was just another thing on one of the apps. |
| 16:24.25 | Dougie187 | like enkin |
| 16:24.29 | michaelnovakjr__ | stupid enkin |
| 16:24.30 | Dougie187 | but something else. |
| 16:24.39 | Dougie187 | enkin lost didnt it? |
| 16:24.45 | michaelnovakjr__ | yep |
| 16:24.49 | muthu | may be the top 20 will get promoted |
| 16:24.58 | michaelnovakjr__ | doubt it |
| 16:25.05 | michaelnovakjr__ | nothing will without a platform |
| 16:25.18 | Dougie187 | well earlier my point i guess was, i bet after ADC1 R2 Google will screw another 30 people. |
| 16:25.21 | michaelnovakjr__ | i expect to see more losing apps get promoted |
| 16:25.26 | Dougie187 | just like they screwed 1738 people so far. |
| 16:38.47 | jasta | Dougie187: actually, Dan confirmed just that. That this will be "just another OS". |
| 16:39.39 | jasta | in particular, he said that Google is not in the business of changing anyone's overall strategy. |
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| 16:47.42 | jasta | Dougie187: it was stated many times that Google is trying to lead the industry by example. showing that openness and a supporting community is the right way to go. |
| 16:47.55 | jasta | unfortunately, given their example so far, i hope that the rest of the industry does not follow ;) |
| 16:49.38 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 16:49.40 | Dougie187 | true that |
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| 17:00.12 | jasta | Dougie187: the real problem is that i think Google is buying into their own hype |
| 17:00.41 | Kraln | jasta: would you be interested in an iphone version of your client? :-D |
| 17:00.53 | jasta | i don't want to write it. |
| 17:00.59 | Kraln | well, duh |
| 17:01.15 | jasta | but otherwise, yes :) |
| 17:01.26 | jasta | although i don't know how wise that would be, given Apple's evil license |
| 17:01.41 | zhobbs_ | gotta go the unofficial route |
| 17:01.41 | Kraln | eh? |
| 17:01.50 | zhobbs_ | toolchain |
| 17:01.56 | michaelnovakjr__ | how about a damn device that supports FLAC |
| 17:02.08 | Kraln | FLAC that spells free, credit report dot com baby |
| 17:02.15 | Kraln | ... |
| 17:02.24 | zhobbs_ | I met the dude that developed a lot of the iphone toolchain stuff at IO...craziest dude I've ever met |
| 17:02.45 | zhobbs_ | he's so weird that you you can tell he's really smart |
| 17:03.19 | zhobbs_ | he printed his own iPhone sign for the conference for some reason |
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| 17:04.50 | jasta | Kraln: right now, i'm working on a Rhythmbox plugin for the desktop |
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| 17:06.36 | jasta | i probably personally will only ever do the Linux stuff :) |
| 17:06.38 | zhobbs_ | jasta: you thought about real-time transcoding options on the server for less buffer time? |
| 17:07.00 | jasta | zhobbs_: Yes, it's in the planned core set of features. |
| 17:07.05 | jasta | specifically, to support FLAC, WMA, etc. |
| 17:07.44 | jasta | and then to re-encode other formats that are unreasonable sizes (probably anything greater than 192 makes sense to re-encode when the target is a mobile) |
| 17:07.51 | michaelnovakjr__ | hell yea FLAC!! |
| 17:07.52 | jasta | 192kbps, that is |
| 17:11.15 | jasta | i will probably get that support in place when i get ready to officially launch the Rhythmbox plugin |
| 17:11.24 | jasta | which i expect to be in the next few months |
| 17:11.35 | jasta | then i will move on to the generalized FUSE approach |
| 17:11.46 | jasta | and then, hopefully, refocus on the Android client. |
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| 17:19.05 | Dougie187 | im still waiting for the announcement. |
| 17:19.05 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 17:19.26 | jasta | honestly, i wouldn't. |
| 17:19.33 | jasta | i talked to them at I/O. they don't have any clue what's going on. |
| 17:19.39 | Dougie187 | yeah i know |
| 17:20.31 | jasta | dan claims he's still looking into whether or not they could extend the NDA to certain individuals as well |
| 17:20.35 | jasta | but i think that's a lie |
| 17:20.57 | Dougie187 | yeah i think they would have heard by now. |
| 17:21.12 | Dougie187 | plus, i doubt the "certain individuals" would extend to me. |
| 17:21.13 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 17:21.35 | jasta | i would imagine it would extend to me simply because i think they were interested in silencing me. |
| 17:21.49 | Dougie187 | heh yeah |
| 17:22.06 | zhobbs_ | maybe they should have a beta program |
| 17:22.25 | zhobbs_ | you apply and then they chose who to give it to |
| 17:22.27 | jasta | yeah, which is what they do with all their other technologies |
| 17:22.49 | zhobbs_ | yeah, they can then give it to many prominent community members |
| 17:22.50 | jasta | however their beta programs usually don't require an NDA :) |
| 17:23.23 | jasta | that's actually not a bad idea. it at least fits better with traditional google behaviour. |
| 17:24.05 | jasta | though i have spoken out largely against this move politically, i ultimately am upset personally because i can't continue my project and as such would be interested in the offer. |
| 17:24.38 | muthu | its a shame so many talented people are sidelined |
| 17:25.04 | Dougie187 | muthu thats how we feel |
| 17:25.10 | muthu | i know |
| 17:25.17 | muthu | i support a public release |
| 17:25.35 | Dougie187 | id go with a beta program. |
| 17:26.37 | michaelnovakjr__ | i think its stupid even to be having this conversation, when we are speaking of an open source project |
| 17:26.46 | michaelnovakjr__ | its like an oxy moron |
| 17:26.55 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 17:26.57 | michaelnovakjr__ | complete contradiction |
| 17:27.39 | jasta | agreed. Google is very confused as to how openness works. It's not something you get to pick only when it's convenient. |
| 17:27.51 | michaelnovakjr__ | it seems google wasn't completely not prepared for releasing any sdk when they did |
| 17:27.51 | Dougie187 | i also like how we are all speculating this, but noone from google is even in this room |
| 17:28.03 | michaelnovakjr__ | wasnt completely prepared ** |
| 17:28.35 | michaelnovakjr__ | i think that the early push of android will eventually lead to its fall between the cracks of the mobile industry |
| 17:28.59 | jasta | Dougie187: let's be reasonable, the folks from Google that frequent this channel are not in a good position to make changes for us. |
| 17:29.03 | jasta | at least not on these broad topics. |
| 17:29.14 | jasta | engineering concerns, yes, very much so |
| 17:29.27 | Dougie187 | true, but i think they are sick of listening to us period |
| 17:29.35 | jasta | which is why they are not here. |
| 17:29.45 | michaelnovakjr__ | i still think that apple will crush on competition this attempts to bring |
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| 17:29.54 | cstar | http://Handy-Gratis-aufladen.info/?id=5b43774f |
| 17:30.02 | jasta | michaelnovakjr__: what do you mean? |
| 17:30.21 | michaelnovakjr__ | i think apple is going to make the iphone cheaper, better, and more appealing to the average user |
| 17:31.15 | muthu | apple target market is different |
| 17:31.22 | michaelnovakjr__ | how so? |
| 17:31.32 | muthu | they cater to fine taste |
| 17:31.36 | muthu | not to the masses |
| 17:31.38 | michaelnovakjr__ | huh? |
| 17:31.44 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 17:31.51 | michaelnovakjr__ | your kidding right? |
| 17:31.56 | Dougie187 | i hope so |
| 17:31.56 | muthu | i'm talking about the global market |
| 17:32.04 | michaelnovakjr__ | do you see how many people use iPods? |
| 17:32.06 | muthu | with its price not everyone will afford iphone |
| 17:32.19 | michaelnovakjr__ | exactly, which is why apple will unveil a cheaper model |
| 17:32.32 | Dougie187 | and their 3G! |
| 17:32.36 | michaelnovakjr__ | i predict the iphone will see the same share of the market the ipod has |
| 17:32.36 | Dougie187 | right michaelnovakjr__ |
| 17:32.49 | michaelnovakjr__ | you can't beat the design |
| 17:33.14 | michaelnovakjr__ | and for the average consumer, pretty === purchase |
| 17:33.17 | zhobbs_ | iPhone is worthless as an mp3 player in current form |
| 17:33.41 | Dougie187 | maybe not when jasta gets his hands on it |
| 17:33.45 | zhobbs_ | I don't want to have to figure out which 15% of my music I'd like to store on it everyday |
| 17:33.47 | michaelnovakjr__ | agreed, but it can play mp3s, and do other things way better than any other phone |
| 17:34.09 | michaelnovakjr__ | most people only have 10% the size of your music collection :) |
| 17:34.22 | zhobbs_ | it's a great product though |
| 17:34.26 | Dougie187 | my music collection is rather big as well. |
| 17:34.27 | michaelnovakjr__ | the hardcore dudes are the ones with the gigs upon gigs of music |
| 17:34.30 | Dougie187 | so i look forward to five. |
| 17:34.39 | michaelnovakjr__ | i have quite a big collection as well :) |
| 17:34.45 | Dougie187 | how much music do you have michaelnovakjr__? |
| 17:34.47 | michaelnovakjr__ | lots of FLAC |
| 17:35.00 | michaelnovakjr__ | roughly 125,000 songs |
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| 17:35.39 | Dougie187 | i have like 20 gigs worth. |
| 17:36.04 | michaelnovakjr__ | i have over 100gbs |
| 17:36.11 | Dougie187 | nice. |
| 17:36.16 | Dougie187 | with 125000 songs? |
| 17:36.39 | michaelnovakjr__ | yea |
| 17:36.53 | michaelnovakjr__ | i can't remember the exact size, but its over 100 |
| 17:37.09 | michaelnovakjr__ | its been awhile since i looked at it.... i have it all on a media serer |
| 17:37.11 | michaelnovakjr__ | server |
| 17:37.14 | Dougie187 | what size hd is it on? |
| 17:37.16 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 17:37.19 | Dougie187 | i need a media server. |
| 17:37.19 | michaelnovakjr__ | 750gb |
| 17:37.28 | Dougie187 | my guess was ~350 gigs |
| 17:37.37 | Dougie187 | thats assuming 3 megs per song |
| 17:38.04 | michaelnovakjr__ | i have a lot of mp3's |
| 17:38.13 | Dougie187 | i have a lot of mp3s and aac. |
| 17:38.14 | michaelnovakjr__ | i am converting lots of to FLAC |
| 17:38.20 | Dougie187 | is FLAC smaller? |
| 17:38.26 | michaelnovakjr__ | but of course requires digging through cds |
| 17:38.27 | michaelnovakjr__ | no |
| 17:38.37 | michaelnovakjr__ | file sizes are larger |
| 17:38.43 | Dougie187 | damn ipods come in 160gig now. |
| 17:38.49 | Dougie187 | ive never used FLAC |
| 17:38.52 | michaelnovakjr__ | hell yea |
| 17:38.57 | michaelnovakjr__ | the bitrate is higher |
| 17:39.39 | Dougie187 | nice |
| 17:39.50 | Dougie187 | and its lossless. |
| 17:39.52 | Dougie187 | thats pretty sweet |
| 17:40.02 | michaelnovakjr__ | yea :) |
| 17:40.10 | Dougie187 | so of course its going to be bigger. |
| 17:40.10 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 17:40.55 | Dougie187 | i did a lab with pictures, compressing the images using CVTs, what we do is reduce the total number of colors in the image and then replace all of the colors by the closest match of those X colors. |
| 17:41.02 | Dougie187 | i guess you can do this the same way with audio. |
| 17:41.09 | Dougie187 | and reduce the number of frequencies. |
| 17:41.16 | Dougie187 | take like the 32 best frequencies. |
| 17:41.26 | Dougie187 | it ends up being pretty good. |
| 17:41.30 | Dougie187 | even down to 4 frequencies. |
| 17:41.47 | michaelnovakjr__ | interesting |
| 17:41.58 | Dougie187 | some guy did a presentation on it. |
| 17:42.02 | Dougie187 | its pretty cool. |
| 17:42.12 | Dougie187 | let me see if I can find the image with 4 colors that i have. |
| 17:42.13 | Dougie187 | one sec. |
| 17:44.54 | jasta | michaelnovakjr__: i have very few FLACs, though i do try to acquire all new music in FLAC if possible |
| 17:45.01 | jasta | and of course if i buy it, i rip to FLAC |
| 17:45.09 | michaelnovakjr__ | yea me too |
| 17:45.18 | jasta | that said, with very few FLACs, I have 84GB music ;) |
| 17:45.27 | jasta | not hard to see where my motivation for Five comes from |
| 17:45.43 | Dougie187 | http://people.scs.fsu.edu/~djacobsen/mandrill.tiff |
| 17:45.48 | Dougie187 | thats the original picture |
| 17:45.55 | Dougie187 | here is the reduced one. |
| 17:45.55 | Dougie187 | http://people.scs.fsu.edu/~djacobsen/Prob5.4.eps |
| 17:46.05 | Dougie187 | at least i hope that ones right. |
| 17:46.18 | Dougie187 | that reduced one uses 4 colors. |
| 17:47.40 | michaelnovakjr__ | jasta, i have to get the minus the bear stuff in flac, i bought the mp3's instead of cd's |
| 17:48.13 | Dougie187 | if you are interested i can post my report for that lab. |
| 17:49.24 | Dougie187 | i cant view that eps file because of stupid windows. |
| 17:49.35 | Dougie187 | i dont feel like downloading ghostscript on this laptop either; |
| 17:50.19 | Dougie187 | is the eps isnt the same picture as the mandrill let me know. |
| 17:50.23 | Dougie187 | ill find the real one |
| 17:51.33 | Dougie187 | but yeah., |
| 17:51.35 | Dougie187 | anyways. |
| 17:51.54 | Dougie187 | hows halo treating you michaelnovakjr__? |
| 17:52.33 | jasta | michaelnovakjr__: i dont have it in FLAC, i got all my minus the bear from my gf |
| 17:52.38 | jasta | i actually had not heard of them until 2 years ago |
| 17:52.43 | jasta | when i met her |
| 17:53.00 | michaelnovakjr__ | interesting |
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| 18:01.14 | vol | muthu: I've been using Positron to unit test android code |
| 18:01.36 | muthu | vol: the sdk has some default test framework, right? |
| 18:01.37 | vol | Positron extends junit, along with allowing acceptance testing things |
| 18:01.39 | vol | yeah |
| 18:01.46 | vol | the sdk has junit, which is nice |
| 18:01.50 | muthu | right |
| 18:01.51 | vol | except that you can only really test static code |
| 18:01.57 | vol | so you can't launch an activity |
| 18:02.00 | vol | and then check its state, etc. |
| 18:02.04 | muthu | oh ok |
| 18:02.06 | vol | also |
| 18:02.13 | vol | junit has trouble understanding how some of the sdk code works |
| 18:02.28 | muthu | so positron works well? |
| 18:02.33 | vol | yes |
| 18:02.39 | muthu | great, thanks |
| 18:02.43 | muthu | will look into it |
| 18:02.50 | vol | they have a tutorial on how to set it up, but I didn't find it very good |
| 18:03.03 | muthu | you have any pointers? |
| 18:03.18 | vol | uh, I wrote a little tutorial myself |
| 18:03.24 | vol | that steps through it a bit more slowly |
| 18:03.33 | muthu | is it available? |
| 18:04.28 | muthu | vol: share it :) |
| 18:04.33 | vol | yeah, hold on |
| 18:04.46 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 18:05.46 | vol | http://privatepaste.com/c01zYPGX0m |
| 18:05.51 | vol | expires in 1 day |
| 18:06.00 | vol | also, it's slightly inaccurate |
| 18:06.04 | vol | but close enough |
| 18:06.52 | muthu | vol: thanks |
| 18:07.32 | muthu | you rock man |
| 18:08.30 | muthu | vol: where you from? |
| 18:08.53 | vol | NJ |
| 18:09.48 | muthu | were you at IO? |
| 18:10.29 | vol | no |
| 18:10.33 | vol | unfortunately |
| 18:10.44 | muthu | ok, we could have met |
| 18:10.46 | vol | I probably won't be working on android for much longer |
| 18:10.50 | muthu | why? |
| 18:15.35 | vol | the company is reorganizing, and we probably won't make an android product |
| 18:15.46 | vol | in all fairness it's probably a smart move, much as I hate to say it. |
| 18:16.43 | muthu | hmm |
| 18:16.52 | muthu | what product are you making? |
| 18:20.56 | vol | I work for ALK |
| 18:20.59 | vol | www.alk.com |
| 18:21.06 | vol | we sell personal navigation software for cellphones |
| 18:21.08 | Dougie187 | this right? |
| 18:21.09 | Dougie187 | http://www.alk.com/copilot/ |
| 18:21.12 | muthu | cool |
| 18:21.12 | vol | as well as industrial routing for trucking companies |
| 18:21.13 | vol | yes |
| 18:21.24 | vol | google for "copilot blackberry" and read the responses |
| 18:21.33 | vol | you may understand why management is a little sour about a java project |
| 18:21.38 | vol | (I was not involved with this) |
| 18:21.52 | muthu | why you are not doing for android? |
| 18:23.48 | vol | for business reasons (which I won't go into) it doesn't make sense to start a whole new codebase |
| 18:24.07 | vol | at least not right now |
| 18:24.40 | muthu | ok |
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| 19:27.54 | jasta | nice, i think i can use google's geocoding API to make use of this Last.fm feed data |
| 19:28.12 | Dougie187 | col |
| 19:28.14 | Dougie187 | cool |
| 19:30.36 | vol | nice |
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| 20:04.13 | *** mode/#android [+o morrildl] by ChanServ |
| 20:04.22 | *** topic/#android by morrildl -> Latest Android demo is here: http://youtube.com/watch?v=sOSk9TW7z-4 |
| 20:05.50 | Dougie187 | good afternoon morrildl |
| 20:06.09 | morrildl | Dougie187: howdy :) |
| 20:06.17 | Dougie187 | Hows it going? |
| 20:06.28 | michaelnovakjr__ | how's that announcement going? |
| 20:10.30 | Dougie187 | heh i guess that means "what announcement?" |
| 20:10.43 | michaelnovakjr__ | haha |
| 20:13.30 | michaelnovakjr__ | i really like android, im just pissed at the dev relations for it |
| 20:13.44 | Dougie187 | i think thats the way most people are. |
| 20:13.53 | michaelnovakjr__ | yea |
| 20:14.30 | Dougie187 | hey morrildl: "The URL contained a malformed video ID." |
| 20:14.50 | jasta | Dougie187: i didn't get that, i'm watching it now |
| 20:14.53 | jasta | despite that i was sitting there :) |
| 20:15.04 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 20:15.09 | Dougie187 | i just clicked it. |
| 20:15.11 | Dougie187 | and it gave me that |
| 20:15.16 | Dougie187 | again. |
| 20:15.25 | Dougie187 | oh |
| 20:15.25 | michaelnovakjr__ | yea, it worked for me |
| 20:15.30 | Dougie187 | i think its cuz it has a . |
| 20:15.42 | jasta | YouTube sucks because you can't press right to skip through the video :) |
| 20:15.44 | Dougie187 | there we go |
| 20:15.46 | jasta | just FYI :) |
| 20:16.28 | Dougie187 | you can click on the bar though |
| 20:16.35 | Dougie187 | and it will start loading from where you click |
| 20:16.47 | morrildl | michaelnovakjr__: are we missing an announcement? |
| 20:16.53 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 20:16.54 | Dougie187 | yes |
| 20:17.01 | michaelnovakjr__ | morrildl, that is what i heard |
| 20:17.11 | michaelnovakjr__ | i guess that explains why it hasn't come :) |
| 20:17.14 | morrildl | announcement of what? |
| 20:17.20 | michaelnovakjr__ | something related to the sdk |
| 20:17.23 | Dougie187 | the issue of public access of the sd |
| 20:17.24 | Dougie187 | sdk |
| 20:17.27 | Dougie187 | or. |
| 20:17.33 | Dougie187 | access for other people then the top 50 |
| 20:17.40 | Dougie187 | and potential extension of the nda |
| 20:17.42 | morrildl | ahh, right |
| 20:17.46 | jasta | you know...it's that thing jason promised would be out no later than Tuesday of last week :) |
| 20:17.53 | Dougie187 | i believe it was supposed to be out before IO |
| 20:17.59 | Dougie187 | yup |
| 20:18.10 | morrildl | Hmm, okay, I will harass Jason :) |
| 20:18.18 | michaelnovakjr__ | you're the man! |
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| 20:26.48 | Dougie187 | michaelnovakjr__ hows halo treating you? |
| 20:27.16 | michaelnovakjr__ | not bad |
| 20:27.20 | michaelnovakjr__ | i just bought a ps3 too |
| 20:27.24 | Dougie187 | nice |
| 20:27.29 | Dougie187 | hows that working out? |
| 20:27.34 | michaelnovakjr__ | sweet |
| 20:27.43 | Dougie187 | what games did you get? or did you get it mainly for the blue ray? |
| 20:32.34 | jasta | i have to say, android is looking very nice :) |
| 20:32.42 | jasta | good to see a more recent version running on a mobile |
| 20:32.46 | Dougie187 | i enjoy the "desktop" screen |
| 20:32.47 | michaelnovakjr__ | i got call of duty 4 |
| 20:32.51 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 20:32.56 | Dougie187 | now you have two versions of CoD4 |
| 20:33.02 | Dougie187 | is playstations online free? |
| 20:33.05 | michaelnovakjr__ | yes |
| 20:33.10 | Dougie187 | thats a plus. |
| 20:33.13 | zhobbs_ | jasta: I agree |
| 20:33.14 | michaelnovakjr__ | wifi is also built in |
| 20:33.21 | Dougie187 | thats awesome. |
| 20:33.32 | Dougie187 | is it 1080p default? |
| 20:33.36 | Dougie187 | or do you have to buy cables again. |
| 20:33.38 | Dougie187 | and stuff |
| 20:34.03 | jasta | zhobbs_: i noticed that they did away with the app opening animation |
| 20:34.31 | michaelnovakjr__ | i had hdmi, and it picked up my 1080p by default |
| 20:34.40 | Dougie187 | nice |
| 20:34.43 | Dougie187 | thats pretty awesome. |
| 20:34.47 | Dougie187 | my xbox only does 720 |
| 20:34.53 | michaelnovakjr__ | it also allows you to hook up to surround sound without an extra adapter |
| 20:35.00 | Dougie187 | thats pretty sweet |
| 20:35.05 | Dougie187 | too bad they dont have halo |
| 20:35.06 | michaelnovakjr__ | which xbox doesn't |
| 20:35.51 | zhobbs_ | michaelnovakjr__: you don't need adapter for optical 5.1 on the xbox |
| 20:36.09 | michaelnovakjr__ | if you use HDMI |
| 20:36.26 | michaelnovakjr__ | the standard cable blocks the HDMI port |
| 20:36.39 | michaelnovakjr__ | so they have a different cable that let's you do it |
| 20:36.45 | zhobbs_ | gotcha...not using hdmi |
| 20:36.52 | michaelnovakjr__ | it just means more money |
| 20:38.22 | Dougie187 | i cant even use hdmi with my xbox |
| 20:38.36 | michaelnovakjr__ | don't have the xbox with hdmi? |
| 20:38.42 | Dougie187 | nope |
| 20:38.50 | Dougie187 | you have to buy a stupid kit for it now. |
| 20:38.59 | Dougie187 | but its not even true afaik |
| 20:39.04 | michaelnovakjr__ | yea, they tried to sell me one without it in december.... well after the xbox with hdmi was out |
| 20:39.11 | michaelnovakjr__ | i ripped into them |
| 20:39.15 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 20:39.18 | Dougie187 | your like F YOU GUYS! |
| 20:39.21 | michaelnovakjr__ | haha |
| 20:39.22 | Dougie187 | my parents bought it for xmas though |
| 20:39.58 | Dougie187 | so i cant complain about a free xbox |
| 20:39.58 | jasta | how old are you Dougie? |
| 20:39.58 | Dougie187 | 23 |
| 20:39.58 | jasta | wow and you got an Xbox from your parents? |
| 20:39.58 | Dougie187 | and i live across the country from them |
| 20:39.58 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 20:39.58 | Dougie187 | yeah |
| 20:39.58 | jasta | man, christmas sucks in my family |
| 20:40.08 | Dougie187 | my wife got a sewing machine and a Kitchen Aid mixer. |
| 20:40.13 | Dougie187 | they shipped all of it. |
| 20:40.14 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 20:40.23 | Dougie187 | the mixer weighs like 60 pounds. |
| 20:40.37 | michaelnovakjr__ | wait Dougie187 this christmas? |
| 20:40.42 | Dougie187 | this last one |
| 20:40.42 | Dougie187 | yeah |
| 20:40.48 | Dougie187 | it was also refurb |
| 20:40.51 | Dougie187 | from gamestop |
| 20:40.57 | michaelnovakjr__ | the hdmi xbox came out in the spring of '07 |
| 20:41.09 | Dougie187 | they dont have any idea what they are buying. |
| 20:41.18 | Dougie187 | they just went into gamestop and asked for an xbox refurb |
| 20:41.35 | michaelnovakjr__ | my wife bought it and we went back and both yelled at themn |
| 20:41.42 | Dougie187 | i cant complain because i wouldnt have one otherwise. |
| 20:41.47 | michaelnovakjr__ | totally |
| 20:42.02 | Dougie187 | yeah, but i cant do much about it after they bought it like 1.5 months before i got it |
| 20:42.03 | zhobbs_ | Dougie187: very subtle with your wife :) Should have also got her a vacuum cleaner and ironing board |
| 20:42.04 | michaelnovakjr__ | they aren't cheap |
| 20:42.10 | michaelnovakjr__ | haha |
| 20:42.14 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 20:42.20 | Dougie187 | she got an ironing board. |
| 20:42.26 | Dougie187 | and i bought her the vacuum |
| 20:42.30 | zhobbs_ | :) |
| 20:42.33 | michaelnovakjr__ | damn she's all set |
| 20:42.36 | Dougie187 | now shes got the whole kit |
| 20:42.36 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 20:42.48 | michaelnovakjr__ | cleaning machine |
| 20:43.21 | Dougie187 | only thing is, shes the working on right now |
| 20:43.22 | Dougie187 | one* |
| 20:43.22 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 20:43.30 | Dougie187 | since im a grad student, and especially since its summer |
| 20:44.24 | Dougie187 | im always suprised there are so many people in this channel, especially since i only heard like 6-10 of them talk ever |
| 20:44.55 | michaelnovakjr__ | haha |
| 20:44.59 | zhobbs_ | yeah, it's strange |
| 20:45.38 | muthu | we should have had a #android get together at IO |
| 20:45.48 | zhobbs_ | we pretty much did |
| 20:46.03 | muthu | yeah, but only a few were there |
| 20:46.05 | muthu | isn't it? |
| 20:46.06 | zhobbs_ | yeah |
| 20:46.21 | Dougie187 | lol if you wanted to pay for me to go i would have gone. |
| 20:46.33 | muthu | Dougie187: you could have got free pass |
| 20:46.36 | zhobbs_ | I met jasta, f00f-, you, umdk1d3 and a couple others |
| 20:46.38 | muthu | guess if you had asked people here |
| 20:46.57 | Dougie187 | pawalls and pcjjman_ |
| 20:47.13 | Dougie187 | muthu did you get a free pass? |
| 20:47.26 | zhobbs_ | top 50 got passes |
| 20:47.31 | muthu | right |
| 20:47.35 | muthu | and a few others too |
| 20:47.38 | zhobbs_ | and I got one before that for helloandroid.com |
| 20:47.42 | Hai-Fai | and me |
| 20:47.46 | Hai-Fai | sometimes =) |
| 20:47.54 | Dougie187 | thats quite a few free passes |
| 20:48.10 | muthu | if you had asked, you would have got one |
| 20:48.23 | Dougie187 | heh yeah but then i still would have needed to get a plane tickey |
| 20:48.25 | Dougie187 | ticket |
| 20:48.29 | muthu | haha |
| 20:48.36 | muthu | i'm not sure if they give you that |
| 20:48.45 | Dougie187 | yeah i doubt they would |
| 20:48.51 | jasta | i got one too |
| 20:49.02 | Dougie187 | did you drive down or fly jasta? |
| 20:49.03 | jasta | a free pass to the conference that is |
| 20:49.08 | jasta | fly, i live close. |
| 20:49.12 | Dougie187 | yeah i know |
| 20:49.14 | jasta | i mean, close enough to be cheap |
| 20:49.15 | Dougie187 | thats why i asked. |
| 20:49.18 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 20:49.20 | jasta | my ticket was like $140 |
| 20:49.29 | Dougie187 | thats way cheap, but you also live close to a major airport |
| 20:49.40 | jasta | Dougie187: who is pcjjman_ ? |
| 20:49.49 | Dougie187 | he was at IO |
| 20:49.53 | Dougie187 | he was always hanging out with umdk1d3 |
| 20:49.55 | jasta | i have never seen him talk here? |
| 20:49.58 | Dougie187 | afaik |
| 20:50.00 | muthu | who's umdk1d3? |
| 20:50.03 | jasta | i saw umdk1d3 a few times |
| 20:50.14 | Dougie187 | i know they were sitting next to each other at the first keynote |
| 20:50.23 | Dougie187 | and i think he went to the python session |
| 20:50.40 | zhobbs_ | umdk1d3 is ScanDroid right? |
| 20:50.46 | Dougie187 | i have no idea |
| 20:50.48 | jasta | AndroidScan |
| 20:50.55 | zhobbs_ | oh yeah |
| 20:51.01 | muthu | jeff? |
| 20:51.02 | Dougie187 | ScanDroid is a clever name though |
| 20:51.03 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 20:51.24 | zhobbs_ | muthu: yeah, jeff |
| 20:51.46 | muthu | we wanted to call him for the party |
| 20:51.53 | muthu | but he was very deep in talks |
| 20:52.08 | Dougie187 | pcjjman_ was posting the pictures from IO last week too |
| 20:52.13 | Dougie187 | he is justin |
| 20:52.29 | muthu | we called dan, but he didn't come |
| 20:53.09 | muthu | jason was also busy |
| 20:53.11 | jasta | what party? |
| 20:53.18 | muthu | 2nd day party |
| 20:53.22 | muthu | at jillians |
| 20:53.22 | michaelnovakjr__ | the special people party |
| 20:53.34 | jasta | oh, i was on a plane :) |
| 20:53.34 | Dougie187 | its posted on helloandroid. |
| 20:54.00 | jasta | i kinda wish i would've stayed the weekend, but my friend doesn't even own a couch. |
| 20:54.10 | jasta | so i would've had to stay at the hotel and that would be lame |
| 20:54.20 | Dougie187 | it was basically "muthu takes naked pictures of you and posts them to his blog" night |
| 20:54.26 | muthu | haha |
| 20:54.29 | michaelnovakjr__ | haha |
| 20:54.41 | muthu | good to have friends |
| 20:54.52 | muthu | who can let you in their home :) |
| 20:54.53 | Dougie187 | true. |
| 20:55.09 | Dougie187 | and unknowingly let you take naked pictures of them |
| 20:55.15 | muthu | oh oh |
| 20:55.19 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 20:55.25 | Dougie187 | i bet dans glad he didnt come now. |
| 20:55.39 | jasta | i bet Dan and Jason went home and went to sleep ;) |
| 20:55.45 | muthu | haha |
| 20:55.53 | Dougie187 | probably |
| 20:55.57 | jasta | they were actually working both days. |
| 20:56.06 | jasta | most of the googlers there were just screwing off, so they could do whatever. |
| 20:56.09 | jasta | but they had presentations and stuff. |
| 20:56.14 | jasta | also, they seemed decidedly sober both days. |
| 20:56.29 | Dougie187 | unlike you huh? |
| 20:56.41 | zhobbs_ | Dougie187: what's posted on helloandroid? |
| 20:56.46 | Dougie187 | it was a joke. |
| 20:56.59 | muthu | i thought zhobbs_ lets everything out |
| 20:57.01 | Dougie187 | i was talking about the naked pictures muthu took of people though. |
| 20:57.02 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 20:57.04 | jasta | Dougie187: i was hungover the second day, yes ;) |
| 20:57.11 | zhobbs_ | ha |
| 20:57.18 | muthu | thankfully its not there in HA |
| 20:57.21 | zhobbs_ | i was hungover the whole trip |
| 20:57.22 | jasta | i sat in the Mobile Mashups session just because i needed to sit down or i would die :) |
| 20:57.29 | Dougie187 | haha |
| 20:57.48 | jasta | i was with it the first day because i got in so late that i decided it would be a waste to go out |
| 20:57.59 | Dougie187 | well i should be getting my laptop back soon. |
| 20:58.04 | zhobbs_ | yeah, actually the only bad day was thursday |
| 20:58.05 | Dougie187 | then i can checkout your source again |
| 20:58.11 | jasta | it was like 9:30 Tuesday night when i got to my hotel and my friend lives in Palo Alto |
| 20:58.32 | jasta | Dougie187: i haven't committed any of my rhythmbox code yet, but i hope to once it all builds |
| 20:58.39 | zhobbs_ | muthu: you staying with Marry Ann? |
| 20:58.41 | Dougie187 | cool |
| 20:58.42 | jasta | which should be soon-is. next weekend perhaps |
| 20:58.44 | Dougie187 | im excited for that |
| 20:58.49 | jasta | soon-ish |
| 20:59.04 | jasta | basically i have to patch the hell out of libsyncml to support client mode |
| 20:59.19 | jasta | it has code for it, but it's very weak and needs more work |
| 20:59.19 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 20:59.41 | Dougie187 | well i should get my laptop back soon-ish as well |
| 20:59.47 | Dougie187 | hopefully by wednesday |
| 20:59.53 | Dougie187 | otherwise i wont get it until next week |
| 21:00.05 | Dougie187 | since my wife and I have to go to Daytona for a conference |
| 21:00.51 | zhobbs_ | I live close to Daytona |
| 21:01.02 | Dougie187 | oh yeah? |
| 21:01.10 | Dougie187 | we live in Tallahassee |
| 21:01.19 | jasta | i didn't know that f00f lived in the bay area, btw. he had a pretty convenient deal :) |
| 21:01.44 | zhobbs_ | Dougie187: yeah, I'm in Cape Canaveral |
| 21:01.57 | Dougie187 | thats awesome. You get to see all the shuttle launches? |
| 21:02.28 | zhobbs_ | yep |
| 21:02.31 | jasta | wow, you're far away |
| 21:02.35 | muthu | zhobbs_: no, i'm with a friend |
| 21:02.49 | Dougie187 | i saw a video of the last one, it was freaking awesome |
| 21:02.54 | Dougie187 | one of my friends went down there for it |
| 21:02.57 | zhobbs_ | I heard the one sat was nice |
| 21:03.10 | Dougie187 | this last saturday? |
| 21:03.12 | zhobbs_ | yeah |
| 21:03.21 | Dougie187 | i didnt even know there was one then. |
| 21:03.32 | zhobbs_ | me either |
| 21:03.44 | Dougie187 | thats cool though |
| 21:03.44 | zhobbs_ | I've lived here my whole life...used to it |
| 21:03.55 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 21:03.56 | zhobbs_ | yeah |
| 21:04.07 | zhobbs_ | ok...5:00 finally happened... |
| 21:04.09 | Dougie187 | this one is march's |
| 21:04.09 | zhobbs_ | cya |
| 21:04.09 | Dougie187 | http://people.scs.fsu.edu/~shenke/movies/nightlaunch.avi |
| 21:04.14 | Dougie187 | see ya |
| 21:04.19 | muthu | hey where to check out the cool happenings in SF? |
| 21:04.40 | zhobbs_ | Dougie187: send it to me when I log back in :) |
| 21:07.08 | Dougie187 | muthu are there cool happenings in SF? |
| 21:07.16 | muthu | i hope so |
| 21:07.25 | Dougie187 | i havent heard of them. |
| 21:07.42 | muthu | can go hangout, since i'm here |
| 21:09.05 | jasta | muthu: asking an IRC channel of mostly non-locals is not the best way to find fun things in a city. |
| 21:09.08 | jasta | instead, I recommend going out. |
| 21:09.23 | Dougie187 | i know there are plenty of gay bars and sushi shops. |
| 21:09.31 | Dougie187 | not sure if either floats your boat. |
| 21:09.36 | jasta | lol |
| 21:09.49 | Dougie187 | there is also a street of hippies, cant remember the name of it |
| 21:09.52 | jasta | i was at a sushi bar wed night :) |
| 21:09.57 | Dougie187 | but if you want some pot i think there is plenty on that street. |
| 21:10.01 | muthu | haha |
| 21:10.01 | jasta | 4 rounds of sake bombs there |
| 21:10.20 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 21:11.24 | jasta | i had a really insane night on Wed :) |
| 21:11.35 | jasta | hanging out with a guy i'd known for years but just met in person for the first time |
| 21:11.42 | jasta | some random friend of his, and two of my oldest best friends |
| 21:12.12 | muthu | what's that sushi bar? |
| 21:12.23 | jasta | i dunno. i think it was called Dragonfish or something |
| 21:12.32 | jasta | it was next to Butter, which seems to be closed down |
| 21:12.35 | Dougie187 | just walk down a street. you should find one |
| 21:12.54 | jasta | yeah seriously, if you wan tto experience the city, pick a district, have a cab drop you off there, and walk around |
| 21:12.59 | jasta | return in a cab at 2am :) |
| 21:13.15 | Dougie187 | you might take a knife with you though. |
| 21:13.17 | muthu | which we did, the 2nd day ;) |
| 21:13.19 | Dougie187 | some places can get kinda scary |
| 21:13.19 | jasta | oh, and in SF, expect to be $100 poorer as a result of your good times :) |
| 21:13.26 | muthu | oh yes |
| 21:13.31 | jasta | yeah, in fact, don't go where i was. |
| 21:13.38 | muthu | its scary though if you hangout latenights |
| 21:13.43 | jasta | we were in a very bad part of town :) |
| 21:13.54 | muthu | i prefer to go out in day |
| 21:14.19 | muthu | and be back safe and early |
| 21:14.32 | jasta | the place i was at was apparently called Sushi Groove South |
| 21:14.41 | jasta | muthu: well how the hell is that going to be fun? |
| 21:14.49 | muthu | yeah that's the problem |
| 21:15.55 | muthu | ThirstyBear is nice |
| 21:15.59 | muthu | you been there? |
| 21:18.31 | Dougie187 | hey muthu |
| 21:18.36 | Dougie187 | i believe that street is fillmore street |
| 21:18.48 | muthu | what you have there? |
| 21:18.56 | Dougie187 | hippies. |
| 21:18.58 | Dougie187 | music shops |
| 21:19.15 | muthu | hmm |
| 21:19.15 | Dougie187 | my friend took me there when we went |
| 21:19.15 | Dougie187 | it was pretty cool. |
| 21:19.17 | Dougie187 | but i dont know if i would go back |
| 21:19.21 | muthu | why? |
| 21:19.31 | Dougie187 | ionno, ive been there once. i dont need to see it again |
| 21:19.38 | Dougie187 | it wasnt like amazing. but i guess its famous |
| 21:19.53 | muthu | what's special? |
| 21:20.02 | Dougie187 | its a street |
| 21:20.07 | Dougie187 | with people on it |
| 21:20.11 | muthu | hehe |
| 21:20.31 | Dougie187 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fillmore_Street |
| 21:20.38 | muthu | let me check |
| 21:21.29 | Dougie187 | probably look at the fillmore district |
| 21:21.30 | muthu | it doesn't say much except "eclectic" |
| 21:21.58 | muthu | oh looks interesting |
| 21:22.04 | muthu | i'm gonna go there |
| 21:22.23 | Dougie187 | ok |
| 21:22.30 | Dougie187 | have fun! |
| 21:22.50 | muthu | dont know when but will check it out |
| 21:22.59 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 21:23.03 | Dougie187 | how much longer are you in SF? |
| 21:23.09 | muthu | jun |
| 21:23.22 | Dougie187 | well. then you should have left yesterday |
| 21:23.42 | muthu | there's still some time |
| 21:23.50 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 21:23.51 | Dougie187 | june what? |
| 21:24.05 | muthu | the whole of jun |
| 21:24.13 | Dougie187 | oh, until the 30th? |
| 21:24.16 | muthu | yup |
| 21:24.19 | Dougie187 | wow |
| 21:24.24 | muthu | hell yeah |
| 21:24.26 | Dougie187 | then you got another 4 whole weeks |
| 21:24.34 | muthu | yippy! |
| 21:24.36 | Dougie187 | thats quite a vacation |
| 21:24.46 | muthu | oh yes |
| 21:25.02 | Dougie187 | too bad google doesnt have any more conferences |
| 21:25.07 | jasta | but you're by yourself? |
| 21:25.17 | muthu | yeah |
| 21:25.29 | jasta | 1 month "vacation" alone in San Francisco sounds more like a chore than a vacation :) |
| 21:25.37 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 21:25.37 | Dougie187 | true |
| 21:25.41 | jasta | you'd better get out and make some friends quick |
| 21:25.48 | muthu | i do |
| 21:25.51 | Dougie187 | You can go to Alcatraz |
| 21:25.52 | muthu | i have a few |
| 21:26.15 | jasta | if anyone's curious, i'm going to Ireland in September for a month :) |
| 21:26.21 | jasta | well, 3 weeks |
| 21:26.22 | Dougie187 | really? |
| 21:26.27 | Dougie187 | thats pretty cool |
| 21:26.30 | jasta | Yeah, I'm totally excited :) |
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| 21:26.33 | Dougie187 | what for? |
| 21:26.36 | muthu | i want to visit ireland |
| 21:26.38 | muthu | may be next |
| 21:26.51 | jasta | my two closest friends are coming with me for the first week, then it's just me and my girlfriend after that. |
| 21:27.05 | jasta | Dougie187: Just to go, see it...hang out in pubs... |
| 21:27.15 | jasta | My family is Irish, so it's a cool chance to experience that... |
| 21:27.18 | Dougie187 | sounds like an expensive trip to a bar |
| 21:27.20 | Dougie187 | heh yeah |
| 21:27.29 | Dougie187 | that makes more sense then "hang out in pubs" |
| 21:27.56 | Dougie187 | I want to check out Norway |
| 21:28.01 | Dougie187 | since my family is norwegian |
| 21:28.08 | jasta | well, a big part of what i'm excited for is to meet the people |
| 21:28.24 | jasta | and in Ireland, the best place to meet the people and take in the culture is at a table with a pint of guinness. Or so I've heard :) |
| 21:28.24 | Dougie187 | do any of your family live there? extended and what not? |
| 21:28.25 | muthu | jasta: where you parents live? |
| 21:28.37 | Dougie187 | you sound like a commercial |
| 21:28.43 | muthu | haha |
| 21:28.43 | jasta | my dad is first generation in America, so he lives here in WA. |
| 21:29.07 | jasta | his father was born in Ireland, but moved to America as an adult. Originally, my family is from Westport. |
| 21:29.12 | muthu | you feel the irish connection? |
| 21:29.18 | jasta | According to my grandfather anyway. But he's Irish, so it's hard to tell if that's true :) |
| 21:29.23 | jasta | Oh yes, definitely. |
| 21:29.29 | muthu | cool |
| 21:29.47 | muthu | is irish culture different than american culture? |
| 21:29.58 | Dougie187 | if anyones curious, im not going anywhere over the summer |
| 21:30.11 | muthu | lol |
| 21:30.19 | muthu | Dougie187: how boring can you be? |
| 21:30.21 | Dougie187 | gonna hold down the fort durring hurricane season |
| 21:30.30 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 21:30.34 | Dougie187 | well i am a grad student |
| 21:30.41 | Dougie187 | i dont think they are ever very exciting |
| 21:30.48 | muthu | you need to go out and have fun |
| 21:31.01 | Dougie187 | well.. fun is expensive |
| 21:31.09 | Dougie187 | and fun gets limited when you buy a house |
| 21:31.25 | muthu | you are married right? |
| 21:31.28 | Dougie187 | yup |
| 21:31.35 | muthu | now i know ;) |
| 21:31.40 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 21:32.00 | jasta | sorry, my boss harrassed me |
| 21:32.06 | Dougie187 | it happens |
| 21:32.17 | jasta | muthu: i would say it is quite different, yes. |
| 21:32.34 | muthu | jasta: how different? |
| 21:32.41 | muthu | want to understand the irish culture |
| 21:32.42 | Dougie187 | very? |
| 21:33.02 | Dougie187 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland#Culture |
| 21:33.11 | Dougie187 | ;) |
| 21:33.13 | muthu | Dougie187: the wikipedia man! |
| 21:33.18 | Dougie187 | i try |
| 21:33.28 | muthu | i want to hear from people and friends |
| 21:33.30 | jasta | in the republic, there is a very strong connection to romain catholicism |
| 21:33.33 | jasta | for example :) |
| 21:33.47 | jasta | there is still a lot of hatred for the British too, of course. The protestants, in particular. |
| 21:34.12 | jasta | quite turbulent place near the border |
| 21:34.42 | jasta | lots of poverty, too, which is unfortunate. but recently Ireland has been trying to build up their technology sectors to attract younger people to the country (contributing to the economy directly) |
| 21:35.01 | jasta | and in particular, they have established a very strong mobile tech prescence, which is certainly very cool |
| 21:35.10 | muthu | yeah cool |
| 21:35.26 | muthu | irish, are they friendly in general? |
| 21:35.46 | jasta | yes, very. |
| 21:35.59 | jasta | and they are friendly to Americans in particular, which is somewhat hard to find these days |
| 21:36.10 | jasta | Bill Clinton apparently stopped by a small town pub in Ireland and had a few pints of guinness with the locals |
| 21:36.17 | muthu | wow cool |
| 21:36.28 | jasta | and with the Irish gift of gab, that small gesture spread to the entire country, affecting public opinion :) |
| 21:36.50 | muthu | its always the small things which matter |
| 21:37.03 | jasta | both my parents and other family members have gone to Ireland at least once, so i have a lot of second hand accounts |
| 21:37.22 | jasta | most of the people i know that have gone have also claimed Ireland is one of the most beautiful countries in the world |
| 21:37.30 | jasta | which is not hard to see just from a quick google search |
| 21:38.02 | jasta | i'm excited to see the cliffs of moher in particular. look that up on google images ;) |
| 21:38.29 | muthu | guiness is from ireland? |
| 21:38.35 | jasta | uhm, duh. |
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| 21:38.46 | jasta | it's like a symbol of Ireland :) |
| 21:39.04 | Dougie187 | and the blarney stone! |
| 21:39.05 | jasta | Guinness and Whiskey. |
| 21:39.41 | muthu | whiskey i though from scotch |
| 21:39.44 | jasta | yeah, but the blarney castle is kind of touristy. i've been encouraged to see Kilkenny Castle instead. |
| 21:40.04 | Dougie187 | scotch is a whiskey |
| 21:40.09 | jasta | muthu: scotch whiskey is from scotland. not all whiskey is scotch. |
| 21:40.18 | muthu | right |
| 21:40.29 | Dougie187 | all scotch is whiskey. afaik |
| 21:40.39 | jasta | scotch is a type of whiskey. |
| 21:40.45 | Dougie187 | same with bourbon |
| 21:40.45 | Dougie187 | yeah |
| 21:40.47 | jasta | and therefore, not all whiskey is scotch, but all scotch is whiskey. |
| 21:40.55 | Dougie187 | exactly |
| 21:41.00 | muthu | scotch is pretty popular |
| 21:41.06 | muthu | than irish whiskey i guess |
| 21:41.08 | Dougie187 | so is whiskey though |
| 21:41.41 | jasta | Ireland has its own particular type of whiskey as well |
| 21:41.44 | jasta | but it is not called anything different |
| 21:41.51 | jasta | it is just that type of whiskey that is from Ireland. |
| 21:41.55 | Dougie187 | there are loads of whiskey |
| 21:41.59 | jasta | some distillation process, i am not sure. |
| 21:42.44 | muthu | do irish drink all day? |
| 21:42.49 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 21:43.15 | jasta | It's somewhat a misconception that the irish actually drink an unusually large amount or something |
| 21:43.30 | muthu | indians drink a lot |
| 21:43.34 | jasta | Sure, they drink, and you will find many pubs and many people in them |
| 21:43.40 | jasta | But there are plenty of other cultures which match that. |
| 21:44.03 | jasta | In particular, though, the Irish daily lifestyle is a bit different than many other parts of Europe at least |
| 21:44.15 | muthu | what's the daily lifestyle? |
| 21:44.20 | jasta | for example, restuarants close at like 6 and open up again at 10 usually, esp in non-touristy places |
| 21:44.31 | jasta | so, most people drink between that time, and then go eat dinner after drinking |
| 21:44.33 | jasta | and go to bed |
| 21:44.41 | Dougie187 | dinner at 10? |
| 21:44.43 | Dougie187 | thats so late. |
| 21:44.50 | muthu | dinner at 9, in india |
| 21:44.52 | jasta | right, well, again, they do things differently. |
| 21:45.00 | jasta | they eat HGUE breakfasts, usually at like 11 or noon. |
| 21:45.02 | Dougie187 | im in bed by 10 |
| 21:45.02 | muthu | its always drink and eat |
| 21:45.04 | jasta | lots of food for breakfast |
| 21:45.09 | jasta | then a kind of lunch snack around 3 or 4 |
| 21:45.10 | jasta | then dinner at 10 |
| 21:45.59 | jasta | but that is a more traditional, for sure. |
| 21:46.16 | jasta | like in Dublin, you would probably find a lot of folks behaving like the rest of Europe and the Americas. |
| 21:46.29 | Dougie187 | where are you going? |
| 21:46.47 | jasta | I'm going all over. Starting in Dublin and spending a day or two there, then traveling all around the southern coast |
| 21:47.10 | Dougie187 | thats cool |
| 21:47.15 | Dougie187 | backpacking? |
| 21:47.27 | jasta | the island is somewhat small, even more so if you cut out of the northern part. |
| 21:47.30 | jasta | (which i will be) |
| 21:47.35 | jasta | no, driving of course. |
| 21:47.37 | jasta | it's bigger than that :) |
| 21:47.52 | jasta | the northern irish do not culturally identify themselves as irish. they are british. |
| 21:48.03 | jasta | that part of the island is much more like visiting England |
| 21:48.59 | jasta | although recently, Britain gave up certain parliamentary control of Nortehrn Ireland to the Republic, which will ensure that the country becomes much more unified moving forward. |
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| 21:49.30 | jasta | one odd tidbit, my dad and brother keep telling me that i must visit at least one Chinese restuarant in a small rural town in Ireland. |
| 21:49.37 | muthu | why? |
| 21:49.37 | jasta | apparently, that is where you will find the best chinese food in the world :) |
| 21:49.40 | vol | a wee tiny triad influence? |
| 21:50.53 | jasta | you mean the father, son, and holy spirit? |
| 21:51.01 | jasta | i'd say that's not a tiny influence in the republic :) |
| 21:51.36 | jasta | though i am not roman catholic, my father is. raised in catholic school in Boston. |
| 21:51.58 | vol | I meant chinese triads |
| 21:52.10 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 21:52.11 | vol | as in the chinese crime syndicates |
| 21:52.17 | jasta | oh, i doubt there's any of that |
| 21:52.28 | jasta | there's just no room for violent crime syndicates in Ireland ;) |
| 21:52.33 | jasta | i mean, other than the IRA. |
| 21:56.25 | jasta | man, i'm all fired up to go even more now |
| 21:56.29 | jasta | just talking about it :) |
| 21:56.45 | jasta | it's gonna be especially fun that my 2 closest friends will be going with me |
| 21:57.12 | muthu | your friends from ireland too? |
| 21:57.39 | jasta | no |
| 21:58.00 | jasta | they just want to go check it out there |
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| 21:58.13 | muthu | cool, should be great |
| 21:58.22 | jasta | i haven't met a single person that has gone and had a bad experience. |
| 21:58.32 | jasta | my mom isn't Irish either, and she's gone twice |
| 21:58.44 | jasta | (only my Dad is) |
| 21:58.54 | muthu | where's you mom from? |
| 21:59.00 | jasta | she's a mutt |
| 21:59.33 | muthu | what it means? |
| 22:00.14 | jasta | that her family is a mix of many cultures and her parents at least did not raise her with a particular cultural identity |
| 22:00.48 | jasta | so she really couldn't tell you what she is. |
| 22:00.49 | muthu | oh ok |
| 22:00.50 | jasta | American now, I guess. |
| 22:00.58 | Dougie187 | thats my mom too |
| 22:01.03 | Dougie187 | shes a mutt |
| 22:01.15 | Dougie187 | my dad's dad is first gen american from norway |
| 22:01.19 | jasta | my Dad otoh, is distinctly Irish. His parents made sure he had a traditional upbringing, even in America |
| 22:01.22 | Dougie187 | and his dad came through ellis island |
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| 22:01.39 | jasta | I was raised outside of that of course, but my Dad still made sure my brother and I knew about the Irish culture. |
| 22:01.44 | muthu | interesting |
| 22:01.55 | jasta | and so we identify, I'd say. |
| 22:02.00 | jasta | since we were raised knowing about it. |
| 22:02.02 | jasta | and have attached to it |
| 22:02.43 | jasta | I, for example, prefer Irish bars, love telling stories, etc :) |
| 22:02.49 | muthu | haha |
| 22:02.53 | muthu | we love your stories ;) |
| 22:03.36 | jasta | It's interesting to me how you can kind of impose a culture on your children by just teaching them about it. |
| 22:03.42 | jasta | They will grow to fit into it, without even realizing it. |
| 22:03.50 | muthu | oh yes |
| 22:04.00 | muthu | childrens are influenced by parents |
| 22:04.22 | muthu | and their behaviour |
| 22:04.34 | jasta | Well obviously, but I meant something more specific than that. |
| 22:04.44 | muthu | like what? |
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| 22:05.11 | jasta | I just meant that even though you don't live the culture, just learning about it at an early age will cause you to gravitate toward it. |
| 22:05.20 | jasta | And identify strongly with it, despite it never being truly "around" you. |
| 22:05.43 | muthu | right |
| 22:05.47 | Dougie187 | like you say "im irish" |
| 22:05.52 | jasta | Exactly |
| 22:05.52 | Dougie187 | even though you have never been to ireland |
| 22:06.07 | Dougie187 | and i say, im norwegian. |
| 22:06.12 | Dougie187 | even though ive never been to norway |
| 22:06.13 | jasta | And was not raised in an Irish neighborhood, or have otherwise known many other people from Ireland. Dougie gets my point :) |
| 22:06.29 | muthu | then who says "american"? |
| 22:06.30 | Dougie187 | and muthu says "Im indian" even though he lives in india |
| 22:06.40 | Dougie187 | well im american as well |
| 22:06.50 | jasta | muthu: I am distinctly American, and would not be ashamed to say I identify with that culture as well. |
| 22:07.05 | muthu | i understand |
| 22:07.07 | Dougie187 | personally i think American is more of an ideal. |
| 22:07.18 | Dougie187 | its the idea that all these cultures can come together. |
| 22:07.28 | jasta | It has it's own very discernable culture as well, Dougie. |
| 22:07.52 | Dougie187 | i guess. |
| 22:07.57 | jasta | That's the point of the Latin inscribed on our pennies :) |
| 22:07.57 | Dougie187 | i guess like humour. |
| 22:08.15 | Dougie187 | i always hear american humour is a lot different then other kinds of humour |
| 22:08.18 | jasta | E Pluribus Unum means "Out of many, One" |
| 22:08.24 | jasta | ;) |
| 22:08.30 | Dougie187 | similar to how biritish humour is crazy as hell |
| 22:08.32 | jasta | American humor is much better than the rest of the world :) |
| 22:08.37 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 22:08.58 | jasta | I am fine to say that objectively and not just as an American. There are plenty of things about American culture I find inferior to other parts of the world |
| 22:09.01 | jasta | But not humor :) |
| 22:09.07 | davanum | don't get me started about spellings :) |
| 22:09.25 | jasta | For example, Europe clearly dominates the music scene, in particular Britain. |
| 22:09.25 | Dougie187 | do you mean grammer in general? |
| 22:09.46 | Dougie187 | jasta do you mean modern music? |
| 22:09.52 | Dougie187 | or historically? |
| 22:10.15 | muthu | america has something common with india |
| 22:10.26 | muthu | which is how many people with distinct culture come together |
| 22:10.41 | Dougie187 | speaking of india. |
| 22:10.50 | Dougie187 | i just watched Indiana Jones and the temple of doom last night |
| 22:10.56 | muthu | haha |
| 22:11.05 | davanum | yeah right! accurate depication :) |
| 22:11.14 | muthu | that's not india |
| 22:11.16 | davanum | monkey brains :) |
| 22:11.22 | Dougie187 | that Maharasa (not sure if i spelled that correctly, so sue me davanum) is a dick |
| 22:11.29 | muthu | lol |
| 22:11.36 | davanum | muthu: kidding :) |
| 22:11.46 | muthu | i know |
| 22:11.47 | davanum | Dougie187: i am from india |
| 22:11.48 | Dougie187 | chilled monkey brains. |
| 22:11.49 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 22:11.53 | Dougie187 | cool |
| 22:11.59 | jasta | muthu: are you serious? i would have thought India to be generally much more isolated culturally than America. |
| 22:12.02 | Dougie187 | well i am sayign that because you said you didnt like spelling |
| 22:12.17 | davanum | Dougie187: i know 6 languages, i bet muthu does too |
| 22:12.21 | jasta | Can you really say that's not true? Look around you while you're in SF. |
| 22:12.29 | davanum | it's so diverse |
| 22:12.34 | muthu | india is a land of many cultures |
| 22:12.35 | davanum | languages, religion |
| 22:12.36 | Dougie187 | I know 1.1 languages |
| 22:12.56 | muthu | each state has its own identitiy |
| 22:13.09 | muthu | south, north, east, west |
| 22:13.12 | Dougie187 | Does india have states? |
| 22:13.15 | davanum | it's amazing to me how india is still sticking together as one country |
| 22:13.16 | Dougie187 | or are you talking about america? |
| 22:13.17 | muthu | and its all bound together by some miracle |
| 22:13.21 | davanum | :) |
| 22:13.21 | jasta | that could be said on some scale about every country with provinces or states in the world. |
| 22:13.49 | davanum | jasta: true |
| 22:13.49 | jasta | I'm not sure I can generally believe that India represents similar cultural diversity as does America. |
| 22:13.50 | muthu | right, in india we don't speak the same language |
| 22:13.53 | jasta | That genuinely seems absurd to me. |
| 22:13.59 | muthu | it differs in every state |
| 22:14.06 | Dougie187 | Lol go down to New Mexico. |
| 22:14.09 | vol | The english don't speak welsh |
| 22:14.15 | Dougie187 | There are towns there that only speak Spanish |
| 22:14.27 | jasta | Yeah, or LA. :) |
| 22:14.31 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 22:14.36 | muthu | forget about dialects |
| 22:14.40 | Dougie187 | there are "Burbs" there that speak spanish |
| 22:14.45 | muthu | we have different languages |
| 22:15.01 | muthu | in tamilnadu, we speak tamil |
| 22:15.15 | muthu | and then there's many dialects across tamilnadu |
| 22:15.26 | jasta | For example, at the university of washington, which is very near my house, caucasians are about 2 years away from becoming a minority. |
| 22:15.43 | muthu | i go to kerala - they speak malayalam, andhra - telegu, karnataka - kannada |
| 22:15.46 | jasta | Like 35% of the people who live there are Asian, many from Japan. |
| 22:15.50 | davanum | scripts are different too |
| 22:16.18 | muthu | yeah |
| 22:16.24 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 22:16.35 | Dougie187 | That happens in a lot of places. |
| 22:16.58 | Dougie187 | im not trying to argue that america is more diverse then india though |
| 22:17.14 | Dougie187 | ive never been to india |
| 22:17.16 | muthu | there's nothing diverse than india |
| 22:17.21 | muthu | its huge |
| 22:17.24 | Dougie187 | ... |
| 22:17.29 | Dougie187 | i would probably argue that |
| 22:17.32 | muthu | as said, its a miracle |
| 22:17.39 | muthu | its called india, and we all love together |
| 22:17.40 | Dougie187 | everywhere is a miracle |
| 22:17.50 | muthu | s/love/live/g |
| 22:17.52 | davanum | Dougie187: i agree |
| 22:18.02 | Dougie187 | every country is a miracle |
| 22:18.06 | jasta | muthu: Realize that this is hard for us to appreciate. |
| 22:18.17 | muthu | jasta: why so? |
| 22:18.20 | muthu | its very similar here |
| 22:18.22 | jasta | We, at least, were raised to believe that our culture is one of the most distinctly diverse in the world. |
| 22:18.29 | muthu | you have people from all around the world |
| 22:18.33 | jasta | By a wide margin, in particular. |
| 22:18.38 | Dougie187 | yeah |
| 22:18.51 | Dougie187 | so there are a lot more people then just indian people who live in india? |
| 22:18.54 | muthu | and americans include "indian - americans" too :) |
| 22:19.00 | muthu | so your's should be diverse! |
| 22:19.01 | Dougie187 | lets see what wikipedia has to say on the issue |
| 22:19.11 | jasta | muthu: Realize that what we were just talking about was that we have many people in America who culturally identify with other places. |
| 22:19.14 | jasta | such as myself with Ireland |
| 22:19.19 | jasta | Dougie187 with Norway |
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| 22:19.25 | muthu | right |
| 22:19.42 | jasta | Do you find that in India? A large population who lives in India, identifies with Indian culture, but also with another, totally distinct one? |
| 22:20.00 | davanum | jasta: yep |
| 22:20.09 | davanum | i am a kannadiga |
| 22:20.15 | jasta | I suppose that is the best measure of how diverse culturally a region is. How many people are importing an existing culture in and truly merging it with another. |
| 22:20.17 | davanum | from bagalore |
| 22:20.20 | davanum | from bangalore |
| 22:20.33 | jasta | Yeah? And? :) |
| 22:20.54 | Dougie187 | but bangalore is in india. |
| 22:21.06 | davanum | i dont feel at home in say the north of india |
| 22:21.17 | davanum | dont like the food :) |
| 22:21.19 | jasta | But do you culturally identify with something OUTSIDE of india? |
| 22:21.26 | Dougie187 | thats like me saying Im a New Jersian, Illonian, Indiana, Oregonian, and Floridian |
| 22:21.32 | muthu | we identify with other states |
| 22:21.46 | jasta | But don't you appreciate that the scope is way different? |
| 22:21.51 | jasta | We have different states and subregions all over the US too |
| 22:21.53 | Dougie187 | i didnt think Indianian was right... |
| 22:21.56 | jasta | but we also identify well outside of the US. |
| 22:22.02 | jasta | to places across the ocean, even. |
| 22:22.07 | Dougie187 | yeah |
| 22:22.18 | jasta | Does India? Is that same diversity a large part of your culture? |
| 22:22.20 | jasta | Because in America, it is. |
| 22:22.23 | Dougie187 | like if muthu were to live here, like he did for college i believe. He was america but indian too |
| 22:22.36 | muthu | agree |
| 22:22.42 | jasta | There are Mexican, Spanish, Italian, British, German, Russian, Irish, Japanese, Indian, ...Who all say they are these things. |
| 22:22.58 | davanum | yep, me as well...american/indian/kannadiga |
| 22:22.59 | jasta | And who say they are American too. |
| 22:23.17 | jasta | But you just said Kannadiga is in India. That doesn't really count. |
| 22:23.24 | davanum | ok |
| 22:23.35 | muthu | "indian" |
| 22:23.36 | muthu | is like |
| 22:23.39 | muthu | "american: |
| 22:23.44 | jasta | I don't say I'm diverse because I was born in Washington but have lived in Oregon. That would make no sense in the American context since we see diversity on an entirely differents cope. |
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| 22:24.05 | muthu | because you just can't say "indian" |
| 22:24.13 | jasta | Judging from your argument, I am having a hard time believing that you appreciate the scope that I am talking about. |
| 22:24.14 | muthu | because they'll ask, then where from? |
| 22:24.21 | jasta | muthu: Well they will ask that of the US too silly. |
| 22:24.29 | davanum | yep true |
| 22:24.31 | muthu | right |
| 22:24.34 | jasta | If I say "The US", anyone familiar with it would say "Well that's a pretty big country." |
| 22:24.44 | muthu | you say "american:" |
| 22:24.46 | jasta | That is not the scope of cultural diversity that Dougie187 and I are referring to. |
| 22:24.54 | jasta | Not even near it. |
| 22:25.13 | Dougie187 | I mean if you go around in the country here, you get asked where are you from. |
| 22:25.15 | jasta | So, I have to assume you do not truly understand what America's sense of the word really means. |
| 22:25.20 | Dougie187 | and thats referring to where in the US did you come from. |
| 22:25.21 | muthu | "american" and "indian" |
| 22:25.22 | davanum | one thing is we can identify those rom the north from folks who are from the south. not sure if that matters |
| 22:25.30 | Dougie187 | or if you are from outside of the country, what country did you come from. |
| 22:25.41 | Dougie187 | but that isnt diverse if you go to one state and find people from all the other states. |
| 22:25.47 | jasta | Dougie187: I think they just simply don't get it :) |
| 22:25.54 | Dougie187 | yeah. |
| 22:25.55 | muthu | jasta: we get it |
| 22:26.00 | muthu | i'm saying its almost the same |
| 22:26.01 | jasta | Is Japan diverse too? :) |
| 22:26.05 | Dougie187 | i think they are thinking of diversity in a different sense |
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| 22:26.16 | jasta | Dougie187: Yes, much different. |
| 22:26.32 | davanum | i guess :) |
| 22:26.33 | jasta | muthu: Let's bring this to a simpler discovery process: |
| 22:27.06 | jasta | How many people in India, who live there and say "I'm Mexican" or Italian, or German, or Russian, or American, or...? |
| 22:27.19 | jasta | Do you have a little italy, a china town, etc in nearly every Indian city? |
| 22:27.33 | jasta | Do you have those things that refer to cultures entirely outside of India. Nowhere near it, even. |
| 22:27.41 | jasta | Do they hit you everywhere you go in all of India? |
| 22:27.42 | Dougie187 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiculturalism |
| 22:27.52 | jasta | Because that is what WE mean. We think it is not what you mean :) |
| 22:27.57 | tomgibara | jasta: I've just noticed this conversation, I think you and muthu are definitely talking about different types of diversity |
| 22:28.02 | davanum | tibetian nepalese..yes |
| 22:28.11 | jasta | tomgibara: Right, despite our repeated attempts to clarify. |
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| 22:28.40 | muthu | india is the most diverse country in the world |
| 22:28.43 | tomgibara | India has a remarkable level of diversity 'within' it's indidgenous(sp) culture |
| 22:28.45 | Dougie187 | no |
| 22:28.50 | Dougie187 | it says here Second most muthu |
| 22:28.57 | jasta | davanum: America is made up of hundreds of very strong cultural ties to outside of our national boundary. And it is not a subtle concept here. |
| 22:28.58 | muthu | in terms of land, people, culture, language etc., |
| 22:29.04 | Dougie187 | India is the second most culturally, linguistically and genetically diverse geographical entity after the African continent. |
| 22:29.08 | tomgibara | America is extraordinarily diverse due to the importation of varying cultures |
| 22:29.43 | jasta | I can appreciate that there are two different scopes here, which is what I said. |
| 22:29.48 | muthu | agree, america is more diverse in terms of people |
| 22:29.56 | jasta | But that the American sense of cultural diversity is not common. It is not found in many other places in the world. |
| 22:30.01 | jasta | And that is exactly what I said to start all this :) |
| 22:30.05 | tomgibara | London? |
| 22:30.27 | muthu | heard london is diverse too |
| 22:30.47 | jasta | tomgibara: I said many, not none. Europe is of course very diverse in general. Though it still falls short by contrast. |
| 22:31.16 | muthu | india is the only country where people look very similar, but they are culturally different in a lot of ways |
| 22:31.21 | jasta | Of course I realize I'm contrasting a country with a continent, but the United State is quite huge, and most of those regions in Europe which are so diverse represnt a small land mass :) |
| 22:32.03 | tomgibara | jasta: I wasn't necessarily disagreeing |
| 22:32.10 | davanum | i see the distinctions :) |
| 22:32.16 | jasta | In fact, the US is bigger than India ;) |
| 22:32.27 | tomgibara | by land only :) |
| 22:32.33 | muthu | 3 times bigger by land |
| 22:32.36 | jasta | If my memory serves me right, by quite a wide margin :) |
| 22:32.41 | Dougie187 | Thank you alaska |
| 22:32.42 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 22:32.45 | muthu | lol |
| 22:32.58 | jasta | Well the spread of the population is what fuels differences more than the population density :) |
| 22:33.20 | jasta | Dougie187: Even without Alaska. I think the US is quite a lot bigger, though I don't have any hard numbers. |
| 22:33.28 | jasta | Or have looked at a map recently. Does anyone know if I'm wrong? :) |
| 22:33.36 | Dougie187 | true. im just asying that because Alaska is the biggest state. |
| 22:33.55 | Dougie187 | Us: Total 9,826,630 kmĀ² [1](3rd/4th3) |
| 22:33.55 | Dougie187 | 3,794,066 sq mi |
| 22:34.03 | Dougie187 | india |
| 22:34.03 | Dougie187 | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:34.03 | Dougie187 | 1,269,346 sq mi |
| 22:34.10 | jasta | Yes, so, wide margin then :) |
| 22:34.36 | Dougie187 | And alaska is 663,267 sq mi |
| 22:34.46 | muthu | yeah 3 times bigger |
| 22:34.54 | Dougie187 | Alaska is half of India alone |
| 22:35.00 | muthu | india is a mystery even to indians! |
| 22:35.28 | muthu | if i travel anywhere outside my state, i'm a foreigner |
| 22:35.32 | muthu | just like here |
| 22:35.46 | jasta | muthu: You need this 1 month vacation in the states apparently. To educate you :) |
| 22:35.55 | muthu | oh yes |
| 22:36.01 | muthu | i'm all for learning :) |
| 22:36.08 | jasta | I'll give you a project. Go out and meet some folks. Ask them where they're from originally, what cultural identity they have. |
| 22:36.11 | jasta | You tally it up :0 |
| 22:36.19 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 22:36.29 | muthu | i've met a lot of irish americans ;) |
| 22:36.42 | muthu | ok, let me do that |
| 22:36.45 | muthu | i'll ask everyone |
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| 22:36.54 | jasta | but don't be weird about it. |
| 22:36.59 | muthu | haha |
| 22:37.00 | jasta | some Mexican gangster might beat you up |
| 22:37.02 | jasta | ;) |
| 22:37.05 | muthu | lol |
| 22:37.23 | Dougie187 | and dont ask for nude pictures. |
| 22:37.24 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 22:37.33 | muthu | haha |
| 22:37.33 | Dougie187 | some Mexican Gangster will shoot you. |
| 22:37.38 | muthu | i know |
| 22:37.44 | muthu | this country is scary with guns |
| 22:37.50 | tomgibara | I think it's hard for those of us who are from populations which are largely culturally homogenous to understand what muthu is saying about being a foreigner in your own land. |
| 22:38.04 | muthu | tomgibara: right |
| 22:38.13 | tomgibara | Imagine travelling just a short way out of your state and not speaking the same language? |
| 22:38.18 | muthu | correct |
| 22:38.29 | muthu | and all different culture |
| 22:38.33 | jasta | tomgibara: Right, but most of Europe can easily appreciate that contrast. |
| 22:39.02 | muthu | its like the european union i guess |
| 22:39.15 | jasta | Yeah, and Europe frankly probably has it worse than you guys ;) |
| 22:39.23 | jasta | There are what, 37 languages in the EU in an area smaller than the US? |
| 22:39.29 | jasta | As large as India, I bet ;) |
| 22:39.33 | tomgibara | a little, but the nation states of the EU are still nations. |
| 22:39.56 | jasta | Sure, you need a passport ;) |
| 22:40.31 | davanum | yep. as i mentioned. not sure whats holding india together :) |
| 22:40.51 | tomgibara | I certainly consider myself "a world citizen", probably due to my mixed heritage. |
| 22:41.03 | muthu | tomgibara: what's that? |
| 22:42.42 | tomgibara | Paternal GPs: Italian, Greek, colonials in Egypt. Maternal GPs: Welsh, English. Father: Lebanese, Mother born in England. Parents met in France, Married in America. Me born Paris, Live in England |
| 22:43.00 | muthu | wow! |
| 22:43.09 | davanum | wow! |
| 22:43.39 | muthu | you are definitely a world citizen |
| 22:44.02 | tomgibara | In more multicultural (american sense) counties, mixes like that are more common I guess. |
| 22:44.09 | tomgibara | *countries |
| 22:44.18 | muthu | yeah think so |
| 22:47.01 | tomgibara | davanum: what's holding india together? A shared belief in nationhood. |
| 22:47.15 | tomgibara | I think that's mostly what it takes |
| 22:50.16 | muthu | and india is not economically developed to consider other options |
| 22:51.48 | tomgibara | never having lived in a huge country like the US or India, I marvel that they are governable |
| 22:52.15 | muthu | very difficult |
| 22:52.30 | muthu | especially if its corrupt |
| 22:53.45 | tomgibara | is the level of corruption in India diminishing in those states that are seeing economic growth? |
| 22:54.15 | muthu | i think so, probably yes |
| 22:54.59 | muthu | the rate of development is painfully slow |
| 22:55.16 | muthu | and india to develop it'll take atleast a century i guess |
| 22:58.07 | Dougie187 | looks like morrildl snuck out under the radar |
| 22:58.21 | tomgibara | muthu: Incidentally, I heard on the World Service that the Chennai Super Kings narrowly lost. Your team? |
| 22:59.19 | muthu | oh yes |
| 22:59.25 | muthu | they lost last ball, right? |
| 22:59.31 | muthu | sucks! |
| 22:59.45 | muthu | IPL is huge in india |
| 23:00.02 | tomgibara | The first season they said - did I understand that correctly? |
| 23:00.08 | muthu | yes, the first |
| 23:00.49 | tomgibara | Cricket - there's a game that divides the nations of the world... |
| 23:01.14 | muthu | haha |
| 23:01.48 | Dougie187 | i like soccer personally |
| 23:02.02 | jasta | doesn't like watching team sports, generally |
| 23:02.07 | jasta | i like freestyle athletics |
| 23:02.17 | Dougie187 | im just impressed by the endurance it takes to play pro soccer |
| 23:02.17 | jasta | like snowboarding and skateboarding |
| 23:02.42 | muthu | http://wiki.workatjelly.com/Jelly+San+Francisco+June+6th |
| 23:02.42 | tomgibara | Absolutely, the players are so extremely fit |
| 23:02.46 | muthu | that looks cool |
| 23:02.50 | Dougie187 | in soccer? |
| 23:02.52 | tomgibara | yes |
| 23:02.57 | Dougie187 | its crazy. |
| 23:03.00 | Dougie187 | the field is so huge. |
| 23:03.06 | Dougie187 | and they have to run up and down it so many times |
| 23:03.25 | tomgibara | I think cricket is on the other end of the spectrum |
| 23:03.29 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 23:03.38 | Dougie187 | the least physically draining activity? |
| 23:03.40 | tomgibara | Is it the only sport that includes scheduled tea breaks? |
| 23:04.03 | Dougie187 | hah |
| 23:04.06 | Dougie187 | i dont know but probably |
| 23:04.09 | Dougie187 | does Rugby? |
| 23:04.13 | tomgibara | Well, of course professional players of any sport benefit from being fit. |
| 23:04.26 | muthu | Dougie187: yeah tea breaks, lunch etc., |
| 23:04.34 | muthu | and you play 5 days |
| 23:05.05 | tomgibara | No, rugby is... well a tough, tough sport |
| 23:05.27 | Dougie187 | no i mean does it have tea breaks |
| 23:05.30 | Dougie187 | i know its tough |
| 23:05.38 | Dougie187 | its like football with death thrown in |
| 23:05.39 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 23:05.53 | tomgibara | :-) |
| 23:06.26 | tomgibara | No tea breaks in Rugby. |
| 23:06.38 | Dougie187 | isnt that an english sport too though? |
| 23:07.15 | tomgibara | yes, came from Rugby School in England |
| 23:07.27 | tomgibara | Warwickshire I think |
| 23:07.38 | Dougie187 | lol its like that Quiddick! |
| 23:07.42 | Dougie187 | dich |
| 23:07.43 | Dougie187 | not dick. |
| 23:07.52 | Dougie187 | i dont know if thats how you spell it |
| 23:07.56 | Dougie187 | or even if you know what im saying |
| 23:08.57 | tomgibara | Hogwarts game, except the bludgers are bloody huge men who just slam you into the ground. |
| 23:09.15 | Dougie187 | exactly |
| 23:09.23 | Dougie187 | thus the death |
| 23:11.30 | Dougie187 | hey tomgibara did you make the top 50? |
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| 23:11.57 | tomgibara | haha, no |
| 23:12.04 | Dougie187 | what was your app? |
| 23:12.29 | tomgibara | Moseycode |
| 23:12.38 | Dougie187 | i have heard of that before |
| 23:12.44 | tomgibara | there's a video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D364ReDaZ3o |
| 23:12.55 | Dougie187 | are you still working on it? |
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| 23:13.19 | tomgibara | Yes, a great deal |
| 23:13.34 | Dougie187 | so its like image tracking? |
| 23:13.58 | tomgibara | Its a process called augmented reality, which uses image recognition/tracking yes |
| 23:14.10 | Dougie187 | thats cool |
| 23:14.22 | tomgibara | I'm not actually that interested in AR in a desktop setting |
| 23:14.32 | Dougie187 | what are you going to do with it? |
| 23:14.37 | tomgibara | but I think it's quite exciting in a mobile context |
| 23:15.40 | tomgibara | Well, moseycode is many things. It's a: 2D barcode symbology, it's a set of publishing webservices and its a set of unifying semantics for barcode content |
| 23:15.49 | tomgibara | (and its an AR system too) |
| 23:16.03 | Dougie187 | but i mean. what is the practical use that you see in it? |
| 23:16.15 | Dougie187 | like what would you like to see people do with it |
| 23:16.19 | tomgibara | A few companies are looking to build systems that layer on top of various elements in that stack |
| 23:16.25 | tomgibara | Some are very advanced |
| 23:16.39 | Dougie187 | thats cool. |
| 23:16.43 | Dougie187 | Its pretty neat. |
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| 23:16.53 | tomgibara | Well, advertising and marketing are obvious applications |
| 23:16.58 | Dougie187 | yeah |
| 23:16.59 | duey | obvious? |
| 23:17.11 | duey | i dont see advertising as viable for that sort of thing |
| 23:17.34 | duey | unless people run around looking at barcodes on walls with there phones..? |
| 23:17.35 | tomgibara | Several people have come to me with great ideas that I don't want to disclose out of respect for their possible business plans |
| 23:17.54 | tomgibara | duey: it's quite popular in Japan |
| 23:18.15 | Dougie187 | i thought the business card thing was cool |
| 23:18.19 | duey | hmm but Japan is a totally different market compared to the west |
| 23:18.26 | duey | yeah i like thebusiness card thing |
| 23:18.31 | Dougie187 | maybe hes marketing it to japan though. |
| 23:18.32 | tomgibara | The ability to get, say, a 3D interactive model of a product 'pop-out' of an advert could be quite compelling |
| 23:19.01 | tomgibara | I think there could be scope for interactive games too. |
| 23:19.09 | duey | tomgibara, hmm that might be ok, I guess if you had fliers or something |
| 23:19.12 | Dougie187 | that was my first guess. |
| 23:19.20 | Dougie187 | i was thinking something like Eye of Judgement |
| 23:19.33 | Dougie187 | or like a 3d Pokemon type game |
| 23:20.22 | Dougie187 | but it would drain the battery like crazy |
| 23:20.41 | duey | ya |
| 23:20.53 | Dougie187 | hows your app coming duey? |
| 23:20.55 | Dougie187 | or did you stop it? |
| 23:20.58 | duey | stopped |
| 23:21.01 | duey | to busy |
| 23:21.03 | tomgibara | After I had started work on Moseycode I came across this: |
| 23:21.04 | tomgibara | http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3313097407471526965&q=augmented+reality+game&ei=EIBESIDqG4PeigLN5aXtCQ |
| 23:21.08 | Dougie187 | are you gonna pick it back up for ADC2? |
| 23:21.18 | duey | depends when adc2 is |
| 23:21.21 | duey | if its this year, then no |
| 23:21.57 | *** join/#android romainguy (n=gfx@adsl-75-55-215-79.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 23:22.02 | Dougie187 | thats too bad |
| 23:22.11 | Dougie187 | i thought you app would have a lot of uses. |
| 23:22.13 | duey | yep |
| 23:22.14 | tomgibara | I'm thinking that combined with network play, there could be some really interesting opportunities |
| 23:22.24 | duey | tomgibara, whats the performance like? |
| 23:22.36 | tomgibara | duey: hmmm |
| 23:23.29 | duey | do you use the circles to locate the bounding box? |
| 23:23.30 | Dougie187 | here tomgibara |
| 23:23.31 | Dougie187 | http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3313097407471526965&q=augmented+reality+game&ei=EIBESIDqG4PeigLN5aXtCQ |
| 23:23.43 | tomgibara | I developed Moseycode to be fast - and it is very fast, in the sense that it lends itself to extremely fast image detection (which is the bottleneck) |
| 23:23.56 | duey | (and consequently do you look at every pixel?) |
| 23:24.19 | tomgibara | A company has implemented an iphone version and get 20fps I think |
| 23:25.00 | Dougie187 | how about power consumption |
| 23:25.08 | Dougie187 | is the image detection done on the phone? |
| 23:25.19 | tomgibara | Yes you need to look at each pixel. But you can strongly downsample the image |
| 23:25.26 | duey | hmmm |
| 23:25.45 | duey | have you considered changing to something other than circles and not looking at every pixel? |
| 23:26.51 | tomgibara | Power consumption will be high, I'm sure. But I think the system will either be used like a game, or very intermittently and briefly (eg, to scan an advert) |
| 23:27.11 | Dougie187 | but can you scan it and then get it without scanning it? |
| 23:27.16 | Dougie187 | i dont know if that makes sense. |
| 23:27.27 | Dougie187 | but can you scan it once, and then get the whole advert until you close it? |
| 23:28.06 | muthu | why can't we barcode for locations? |
| 23:28.15 | tomgibara | Dougie187: yes, it maintains a barcode (portal) history that can be reviewed and previous portals can be revisited |
| 23:28.25 | Dougie187 | cool |
| 23:28.31 | Dougie187 | where are the portal data stored? |
| 23:28.32 | tomgibara | they can be manipulated by stroking the screen instead of moving around the barcode |
| 23:28.53 | tomgibara | There is a central barcode repository held on a server |
| 23:29.16 | Dougie187 | so when ever you see a new barcode you have to ping the repo and download the new portal? |
| 23:29.21 | tomgibara | The contents of barcoded portals are defined in "chamber documents" stored on that server |
| 23:29.32 | tomgibara | yes |
| 23:30.03 | Dougie187 | although its not quite like AR, but you could do that portion similarly to Duey to help with power consumption for the advery portion. |
| 23:30.19 | Dougie187 | you could just take an image, and send it to the server. then have the server return the correct portal |
| 23:30.46 | duey | hnm probably not nessesary |
| 23:30.58 | tomgibara | Yes not necessary |
| 23:31.01 | duey | I imagine some optimsiation just so you dont need to look at every pixel would be good |
| 23:31.26 | tomgibara | If you aren't looking at each pixel then that's generally equivalent to downsampling it |
| 23:31.43 | duey | yes but downsampling itself looks at every pixel |
| 23:32.11 | tomgibara | But using the image processing pipeline of the phone, that's very very fast |
| 23:32.18 | duey | yeah true |
| 23:32.35 | duey | but not all of the phones will have a gpu |
| 23:32.58 | Dougie187 | heh, some might not even have a screen! |
| 23:34.10 | tomgibara | If you're interested, it does a scaling, then an adaptive thresholding pass, binarizes the image into a boolean array, uses marching-squares to do blob detection, uses heuristics to identify ellipses, combines ellipses into rings, combines rings into quadrilaterals, scans each quadrilateral for a barcode pattern, computes its position in 3D space, then renders |
| 23:34.57 | Dougie187 | thats pretty intense |
| 23:35.03 | tomgibara | The main image detection function, does no memory allocation, no function calls, no FP arithmetic and no integer divides. |
| 23:36.01 | tomgibara | Image detection is the slowest part, very little comes close for overall runtime. |
| 23:37.20 | tomgibara | The trick, as with optimizing rendering, is to focus on hitting the image pixels the least number of times you can; since they are always the most numerous elements. |
| 23:38.54 | tomgibara | Anyway, the lack of a JIT/AOT compiler prior to launch, probably makes this slightly academic ATM |
| 23:39.37 | duey | there wont be a JIT compiler |
| 23:39.42 | Dougie187 | you should make an android ray tracer |
| 23:39.48 | duey | lol |
| 23:39.54 | duey | i have one in javascript :) |
| 23:39.56 | romainguy | Dougie187: I did one :) |
| 23:40.01 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 23:40.02 | tomgibara | Too easy :-P |
| 23:40.14 | Dougie187 | all the graphic nerds step forward on that one. |
| 23:40.15 | jasta | wow, i just saw something so ridiculous |
| 23:40.26 | Dougie187 | whats that jasta? |
| 23:40.29 | jasta | a woman was breastfeeding her baby as she walked down a crowded city street in Seattle |
| 23:40.34 | tomgibara | romainguy: does it render anything more than a sphere and a checkered plane? |
| 23:40.35 | duey | lol |
| 23:40.41 | jasta | that really floored me |
| 23:40.42 | romainguy | tomgibara: cubes :)) |
| 23:40.54 | Dougie187 | arbitrarily rotated cubes? |
| 23:42.24 | romainguy | but the raytracer I wrote was heavily object oriented and thus allocates tons and tons of objects |
| 23:42.32 | duey | <3 |
| 23:43.19 | tomgibara | I'm thinking of implementing Moseycode in actionscript, I've never done any significant Flash development before, but I think it's viable |
| 23:43.32 | romainguy | probably |
| 23:43.37 | romainguy | Flash's VM is good |
| 23:43.44 | romainguy | it's rendering pipeline is pure software though |
| 23:43.52 | romainguy | -it's+its |
| 23:43.57 | tomgibara | Yes, I was taking a look, those were my conclusions |
| 23:44.43 | *** join/#android f00f- (i=f00f@virusexperts.com) |
| 23:45.22 | tomgibara | Incidentally, on the Android emulator: creating an ArrayList of Integer and adding 10,000 boxed ints to it is slower than creating an array in JS and adding 10,000 numbers to it within the Webkit browser |
| 23:45.39 | duey | .... |
| 23:46.30 | tomgibara | Disclaimer: that's a _very_ rough benchmark I'm stating there |
| 23:49.36 | romainguy | and it depends on so many things :) |
| 23:51.09 | tomgibara | Naturally, the statement's not worthy of being called a fact, but I thought I'd throw it out there, since I'm pretty sure I'm the only person who's tried to gauge the relative performance of Webkit's ECMAScript implementation and the Dalvik VM |
| 23:53.10 | duey | well im currently using js for distributed ray tracing and its working well :) |
| 23:55.12 | Dougie187 | i tried to write a ray tracer in c and it didnt work so well |
| 23:55.13 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 23:55.16 | tomgibara | duey: surely the memory contraints prevent it from being, I don't know how to phrase this politely... competitive? |
| 23:55.37 | duey | ray tracing doesn't require much memory? |
| 23:55.54 | duey | when you are only computing a few pixels at a time its nothing |
| 23:56.18 | duey | obviously you would need a lot of computers for it to become comeptitive, but its just academic atm |
| 23:57.24 | Dougie187 | i took a scientific visualization class, and it ended up being a computer graphics class. |
| 23:57.27 | tomgibara | Most of the scenes (those that can't be mathematically modelled simplistically) that benefit from distribution are sufficiently complex that their geometry and textures are huge |
| 23:57.32 | Dougie187 | we did ray tracing and polygon clipping |
| 23:57.57 | duey | tomgibara, yes but ray tracing is just an example implementation |
| 23:58.12 | tomgibara | oh I see |
| 23:58.20 | duey | just so i can talk about something visual in a presentation |
| 23:58.32 | duey | people can see the result rather than some number |
| 23:58.37 | jasta | ever since I/O, my right arm has hurt pretty bad |
| 23:58.48 | duey | maybe they injected it with something while you were not looking |
| 23:58.52 | jasta | and i can't lift much weight without it hurting more |
| 23:59.09 | jasta | maybe i got drunk and gave dan a right hook :) |
| 23:59.13 | Dougie187 | ever since disney my right knee has hurt pretty bad jasta |
| 23:59.14 | duey | lol |
| 23:59.19 | Dougie187 | i cant walk on it right. |
| 23:59.33 | jasta | i might go to the doctor tomorrow if it doesnt feel better |
| 23:59.36 | jasta | its a very strange feeling |
| 23:59.56 | Dougie187 | i also think i got a sinus infection from my wife. |