IRC log for #android on 20080625

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00:29.59Razechi...
00:30.22romainguyhi
00:30.37RazecWhats up
00:31.05Razecmuthu hi
00:31.11Razecjasta hi
00:31.14muthuRazec: hi
00:31.56Razecmuthu what do you recent development?
00:32.10muthuandroid
00:32.22muthuhttp://cookingcapsules.com
00:32.31Razecchecking now
00:32.43AttractiveApeyeah, muthu, my girlfriend loves your idea btw :)
00:32.58muthuAttractiveApe: thanks, lots of people love them
00:33.07muthuits a nice useful app
00:33.43Razecmuthu very interesting...
00:33.56muthuyeah, real cool
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00:36.52*** topic/#android is Hey, did anyone make it to any of our international Developer Days?
00:40.03f00f-muthu, you're leaving soon
00:40.06f00f-let's meet up
00:40.12muthusure, when?
00:40.18muthui'm leaving this weekend
00:40.23f00f-what day are you gone?
00:40.33muthui'm leaving sunday
00:41.02f00f-hmm ok let me see
00:41.14muthucool
00:41.20Dougie187jasta: you around?
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00:46.45f00f-how about saturday muthu
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00:46.51f00f-are you still in dublin
00:46.57muthuyeah
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00:50.48jastayup
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04:45.32jastaanyone seen charlie wilson's war?
04:45.39jastanot sure if i should watch it tonight
04:48.15romainguy__I read the book
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07:23.31trigatch4hi
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11:14.54spykidanno^da: btw mit wem von der t-com hast du geredet? Level?
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12:26.01dcordeshi
12:26.09dcordesin the dialer, where do you dial after you typed in a number?
12:27.49dcordesbuster__: are you the guy who had the vogue?
12:28.33buster__the vogue?
12:29.34dcordesnevermind. do you know how to dial in the dialer?
12:30.17buster__press the green button? dunno
12:30.39dcordesthere is none
12:30.57buster__below the display
12:30.58dcordesI got the two menu buttons on top (Dialer, Recent Calls)
12:31.13dcordesthen the field where you put the number with a pink X on its right
12:31.24dcordesand bottom part is the on screen keypad
12:31.35buster__actually i dont have the emulator here, so...
12:31.45buster__yes, i meant the "real" buttons below the screen
12:31.55dcordesobviously the phone app (the version I got here) assumes you got a working dialer button
12:32.01dcordeswell my phone has one but it doesn't react
12:32.22dcordesmaybe need to remap it in the kernel
12:32.42buster__so you have it installed on real hardware?
12:32.49dcordesof cooourse
12:33.03buster__dont believe that works, regarding to actually call someone
12:33.04dcordessomebody here who can hint me on how to dial in the dialer w/o working hardware keys?
12:33.17dcordesbuster__: why you don't know who I am and what I have here
12:33.34dcordesso that's vague but we had vague discussions in the paste so nevermind
12:33.55buster__i said, i believe, not that i know
12:34.05buster__just read properly
12:35.27dcordes:(((
12:35.51dcordesbuster__: sorry didn't mean to hate
12:36.34buster__anyway, did you ask on the android-internals group?
12:36.43dcordesbuster__: where is it?
12:37.05dcordesare those the kernel devs like swetland, san and so?
12:37.11buster__they are having a hard time bringing android to run on nokia n810, framebuffer, kernel compile, etc.
12:37.55buster__that just shows that its not ready for real hardware yet
12:37.55buster__its an android group, hardware-related
12:38.00dcordesn810 is not so interesting, since it has no phone
12:49.36dcordesI will just remap the dial button in the kernel according to how it is on the vogue
12:49.46dcordesbuster__: thanks for the pointers cya
12:50.09*** join/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@c-68-42-59-199.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
12:50.14dcordeso wait I will just idle maybe somebody will come up with a hint on how to dial on the screen
12:56.29michaelnovakjrbuster__ is that on irc
12:56.44Dougie187good morning michaelnovakjr
12:56.49michaelnovakjrhowdy
12:57.08Dougie187hows it going.
12:57.26michaelnovakjrexhausted
12:57.35michaelnovakjrhow do you get up so early?
12:58.29Dougie187lol
12:58.38Dougie187class usually.
12:58.42Dougie187but today i have an interview.
12:58.42michaelnovakjrwhat time?
12:58.53dcordesmichaelnovakjr: I think buster__ was speaking fo a google group /mailing list
12:59.01michaelnovakjrah damn
12:59.16dcordesDougie187: what sort of interview do you have?
12:59.20Dougie18710:30
12:59.20michaelnovakjrandroid is premature
12:59.36Dougie187its a state job, for administering a Systems Management Server.
12:59.47michaelnovakjrwhat state
12:59.58dcordescool
13:00.07Dougie187florida.
13:00.13Dougie187Department of Transportation.
13:00.17michaelnovakjrah that's right
13:00.59michaelnovakjri got android running on my iPod!
13:01.05Dougie187really?
13:01.09michaelnovakjr:)
13:01.12Dougie187What version?
13:01.17Dougie187(ipod)
13:01.30michaelnovakjrthink about it :)
13:01.49Dougie187thinking.
13:01.56michaelnovakjrclick wheel...
13:02.00michaelnovakjrtyping...
13:02.04dcordesyou can get it working on virtually any device that supports the linux kernel
13:02.34michaelnovakjri wouldn't say linux kernel
13:02.50michaelnovakjri can put a 'linux kernel' in my stopwatch if i watched to
13:02.56dcordesany device as in any PDAish device ^^
13:03.14Dougie187michaelnovakjr: there are like 3 versions of the ipod that have a click wheel.
13:03.17michaelnovakjrand android installed is useless
13:03.24michaelnovakjrDougie187, joking :)
13:03.49michaelnovakjrmy emphasis is on how useless that would be :)
13:03.49Dougie187so you didnt get it going on your ipod?
13:03.52Dougie187and your a liar now?
13:04.00michaelnovakjryes, but i didn't sleep with that woman
13:04.04Dougie187ok
13:04.12Dougie187good. because then you would have crossed the line.
13:04.20michaelnovakjri know
13:04.55michaelnovakjrpeople that are running android on hardware now are just running the ever so bare emulator image that comes with the SDK
13:05.05Dougie187yeah
13:05.11Dougie187are you a vim groupie?
13:05.12michaelnovakjrone person wrote radio drivers, but again..... useless at the moment
13:05.16michaelnovakjrnano
13:05.20Dougie187wtf.
13:05.20Dougie187nano?
13:05.24Dougie187are you serious?
13:05.29michaelnovakjrwhy not
13:05.33michaelnovakjrnano is awesome
13:05.37Dougie187because thats like saying you program in word.
13:05.39michaelnovakjri use vim on my servers
13:05.43michaelnovakjrhaha
13:06.07michaelnovakjri must say though, i like nano, but the line wrapping is annoying
13:06.18Dougie187yeah, but vim does that too.
13:06.22Dougie187though there is some way to make it not.
13:06.24Dougie187but i dont know it.
13:06.29Dougie187i love folding in vim.
13:06.31Dougie187that is the shit.
13:06.35michaelnovakjr:)
13:06.39Dougie187and splitting.
13:06.40Dougie187;)
13:06.45dcordesany device as in any PDAish device ^^  <- don't know if that arrived
13:06.48michaelnovakjri used to use vi for everything
13:06.54Dougie187dcordes: yes it did.
13:07.03Dougie187vim > vi
13:07.12Dougie187vi > emacs > nano
13:07.13Dougie187lol
13:07.20michaelnovakjrvi > emacs > nano > word
13:07.28Dougie187nano ~ word
13:07.30michaelnovakjrhah
13:07.42Dougie187because nano ~ pico
13:07.51Dougie187and pico ~ gedit ~ wordpad ~ word
13:08.00Dougie187=> nano ~ word
13:08.04michaelnovakjroh boy
13:08.14michaelnovakjrthere's way too many text editors in the world
13:08.18Dougie187lol
13:08.24Dougie187but theres only one for programmers.
13:08.25michaelnovakjrwe need to start a foundation that only supports vi
13:08.27Dougie187and thats VIM!
13:08.33michaelnovakjrand make everyone use it!
13:08.35Dougie187jasta would hop on that train.
13:08.39michaelnovakjr:0
13:09.00Dougie187i love vim.
13:09.07Dougie187there are so many cool things you can do with it.
13:09.12michaelnovakjri must say its a sexy editor :)
13:09.12Dougie187and all the awesome plugins.
13:09.18Dougie187do you use latex?
13:09.23michaelnovakjrhaha
13:09.26Dougie187not condoms.
13:09.28Dougie187LaTeX
13:09.32michaelnovakjri know i know
13:09.38Dougie187pervert.
13:09.40michaelnovakjrit was just at the right time
13:09.42michaelnovakjrhaha
13:09.53Dougie187either way.
13:09.55Dougie187do you?
13:09.58michaelnovakjrbut no i don't use latex
13:10.01Dougie187ok.
13:10.08Dougie187if you ever have to, check out latex-suite
13:10.18Dougie187its a really cool vim latex plugin
13:10.29michaelnovakjrnice
13:10.41Dougie187thats what i use to write all my reports for school.
13:11.02michaelnovakjrnice
13:11.45Dougie187do you use folding or splitting in vim?
13:11.59michaelnovakjryes
13:12.10Dougie187those have to be two of my favorite features.
13:12.18Dougie187what foldmethod do you like?
13:12.20michaelnovakjrindeed
13:12.27michaelnovakjrits good stuff
13:12.28Dougie187i typically use marker.
13:12.35Dougie187but i would like to learn expr
13:13.25michaelnovakjrexpr
13:13.31Dougie187you use expr?
13:14.17michaelnovakjryep
13:14.25Dougie187what is your foldexpr?
13:14.31Dougie187i never really got how to set it up
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13:15.56michaelnovakjri have it setup on my svn/git server
13:16.22michaelnovakjri write all my shit down because i can't remember anything :)
13:16.27Dougie187lol
13:16.37Dougie187i remember everything.
13:16.46Dougie187i dont write down anything.
13:16.52michaelnovakjrinteresting
13:17.01Dougie187but i do send myself emails all time.
13:17.04Dougie187with things to do.
13:17.05Dougie187lol
13:17.07Dougie187so i dont forget.
13:17.08michaelnovakjri do that too :)
13:18.15Dougie187lucky for me gmail keeps giving me more space.
13:18.16Dougie187lol
13:18.44michaelnovakjri run my own mail server :)
13:18.46Dougie187i only have like 803 megs of emails in it.
13:19.00Dougie187out of the 7gigs.
13:19.19michaelnovakjri have 1TB
13:19.28Dougie187i dont think ill ever need that much.
13:19.32Dougie187plus, this is free
13:19.35Dougie187and hosted for me.
13:19.36michaelnovakjrme either :)
13:19.45michaelnovakjrbut combined email addresses
13:19.47Dougie187i have a total of 10189 emails.
13:19.52michaelnovakjri run zimbra
13:19.55Dougie187lol, i have 3 email addresses with gmail.
13:20.06michaelnovakjri barely have to touch the server for anything
13:21.15michaelnovakjrsamething with my svn/git with trac
13:21.23michaelnovakjri barely have to touch that server.
13:21.28Dougie187thats cool.
13:21.47michaelnovakjrit takes snapshots of the repositories when new commits are entered
13:22.02michaelnovakjrand sticks them on a tape drive :)
13:22.14Dougie187nice
13:22.22michaelnovakjri get an email when space is running low.
13:22.30Dougie187and then you fire someone?
13:22.33michaelnovakjrand it takes care of business for me
13:22.59michaelnovakjrit just removes older snapshots that aren't needed anymore because more recent ones have been backed up
13:23.49Dougie187thats pretty sweet
13:24.03michaelnovakjrindeed
13:24.11michaelnovakjrever used Trac?
13:24.17Dougie187nope.
13:24.24Dougie187just vim
13:25.03michaelnovakjrTrac is a web-based project management tool
13:25.16michaelnovakjryou can browse sources diffs and have a ticket system
13:25.24michaelnovakjras well as a wiki, roadmap and milestones
13:25.34michaelnovakjrand a nice changelog vie
13:25.35michaelnovakjrw
13:26.05Dougie187thats cool
13:26.10Dougie187i use websvn at school.
13:26.24michaelnovakjrnice
13:26.31Dougie187but thats just for my homeworks
13:26.45Dougie187then i checkout my homework when i get home and work on it here.
13:26.45michaelnovakjrdo any interesting homework?
13:26.48Dougie187eh
13:27.03Dougie187http://people.scs.fsu.edu/~djacobsen/websvn
13:27.10Dougie187i think you can login with guest/guest08
13:27.29Dougie187oh lol.
13:27.33Dougie187i gpged most of them
13:27.43michaelnovakjr:)
13:27.44Dougie187because there is a slacker student who would just steal homeworks from people.
13:27.49Dougie187and he had sudo access
13:27.56Dougie187so i gpged all of them so he couldnt take mine.
13:27.57Dougie187lol
13:28.04dcordesdamn old slackers
13:28.17Dougie187i know.
13:28.32Dougie187that last homework is ODE stuff
13:29.04Dougie187solving ODEs with a 1 step Adams-Bashforth method and a 2 step Adams-Moulton method.
13:29.31michaelnovakjrtcl huh
13:29.33Dougie187...
13:29.35Dougie187yeah...
13:29.43michaelnovakjrwow
13:29.43Dougie187that class sucked.
13:29.57Dougie187and my polygon clipper doesnt work right
13:29.57Dougie187lol
13:30.02michaelnovakjrwhy tcl?
13:30.08Dougie187vtk
13:30.20Dougie187he gave us those scripts.
13:30.23Dougie187we didnt have to write them
13:30.25Dougie187just modify them
13:30.39michaelnovakjrah
13:31.22Dougie187ACS1 Lab5 is also ODE stuff
13:31.24Dougie187Orbit of the moon.
13:31.36Dougie187using different methods again.
13:31.37michaelnovakjrnice
13:32.56Dougie187yeah
13:33.07Dougie187ACS1 is by far the most interesting class out of those three.
13:33.36michaelnovakjrgood stuff
13:33.45Dougie187yeh
13:33.50Dougie187MD sucked.
13:33.52Dougie187SciViz Sucked.
13:33.55Dougie187lol
13:34.00michaelnovakjrhaha
13:34.04Dougie187MD was bad because the teacher didnt know anything about MD
13:34.10Dougie187but he does MD as his research.
13:34.14Dougie187but he didnt know how to do it.
13:34.18Dougie187it was irritating.
13:34.21michaelnovakjrhow's that work?
13:34.24Dougie187well.
13:34.29Dougie187he uses a package called CharMM
13:34.43Dougie187(Chemisty at Harvard Molecular Modeling)
13:34.56Dougie187and it is the biggest piece of garbage i have ever seen.
13:35.07michaelnovakjrthat might explain his issues
13:35.11Dougie187basically he just writes these tiny scripts and makes Charmm do his MD stuff
13:35.23Dougie187but he can't write an MD program even for a simple situation
13:35.28michaelnovakjrhaha
13:35.42Dougie187and he doesnt know what his stuff does really.
13:35.49Dougie187he just acts like he does.
13:35.59michaelnovakjrgotta hate professors like that
13:36.09Dougie187SciViz sucked because the teacher thought it was Computer Graphics for the first 3/4 of the semester.
13:36.18michaelnovakjrhaha3
13:36.36Dougie187he was teaching us basically how to write opengl.
13:36.52Dougie187and im like "WTF, I dont get a shit how to write open gl. I want to use it to visualize my data!"
13:36.54michaelnovakjrfor what purpose?
13:36.56Dougie187but he didnt get that.
13:37.17Dougie187just so we know how to write the next generation of Visualization software packages.
13:37.20Dougie187like Amira and stuff.
13:37.25Dougie187OpenGL, VTK
13:37.28Dougie187all those things.
13:37.56michaelnovakjrhm
13:38.00Dougie187he didnt read the Syllabus.
13:38.05michaelnovakjrha
13:38.14michaelnovakjrwasn't he the one who wrote it?
13:38.27Dougie187if he had, he would have understood that we were supposed to learn how to use those packages, and apply their techniques to the data we had and visualize it in a meaningful manner.
13:38.29Dougie187I would guess not
13:38.36Dougie187i bet he stole it from the teacher from the previous year
13:38.46michaelnovakjrhaa
13:39.11Dougie187And ACS1 was cool, because it was about different techniques for Computational scientisits.
13:39.22michaelnovakjrnice
13:39.29Dougie187like doing Numerical Calculus, and Error checking, and ODE Solving.
13:39.31Dougie187stuff like that
13:39.59michaelnovakjrsounds like interesting stuff
13:40.05Dougie187yeah it was really cool.
13:40.10Dougie187i enjoyed it a lot
13:40.17Dougie187but most of the students slept through it
13:40.18Dougie187lol
13:40.24Dougie187or didnt come.
13:40.27Dougie187like that slacker kid
13:40.41Dougie187makes it rather frustrating.
13:43.38michaelnovakjrhaha
13:43.47michaelnovakjrsome people are just stupid
13:44.31Dougie187yeah
13:44.33Dougie187and lazy asses
13:44.43michaelnovakjryep
13:44.52Dougie187i hate lazy asses.
13:45.00michaelnovakjrme too
13:45.00Dougie187there were about 30 of them this last term too
13:45.01Dougie187lol
13:45.22Dougie1871st year grad students here, have to do 1 year of technical support work.
13:45.32Dougie187and me and one other guy were the only two who did anything.
13:45.49michaelnovakjrfigured
13:45.55Dougie187everyone else was foreign, so their advisors said they didnt have to do anything because they couldnt understand the instructions.
13:45.57michaelnovakjrwhat kind of technical support?
13:46.24Dougie187depends who you worked for. but i supported servers, helped maintain the machine room, and set up desktop systems.
13:46.35Dougie187as well as fixing various problems on the servers and desktops.
13:46.47michaelnovakjrnot a bad gig
13:46.49Dougie187one student, had to run network cables and preform cable management on servers.
13:46.51Dougie187but they wouldnt do it.
13:47.00Dougie187because they couldnt understand what their boss was telling them.
13:47.05Dougie187so i had to do that.
13:47.08michaelnovakjrthat is crazy
13:47.17michaelnovakjrthen how can they understand their professors?
13:47.23Dougie187the other guy who did a lot of stuff helped me, but had to create a PHP interface to the Ldap server.
13:47.27Dougie187lol, i dont know
13:47.33Dougie187i think its more the boss was lazy then the student though
13:47.42Dougie187the bosses gave up
13:47.52Dougie187and then gave me and the other guy more work to do.
13:47.56Dougie187so i was pissed
13:48.20Dougie187but luckily i was the only person who got an excellent yearly review
13:48.20michaelnovakjrthat sucks
13:48.31Dougie187everyone else got "Ok" or "Poor - Bad"
13:48.45michaelnovakjri would do grad school if i could afford the time to do it
13:49.07Dougie187well, its cool because we get assistantships.
13:49.14Dougie187so they pay for school, + they give us a stipend.
13:49.22michaelnovakjrnice
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13:49.41Dougie187but you have kids dont you?
13:49.53michaelnovakjrnope
13:49.58Dougie187oh, how old are you?
13:50.12michaelnovakjr22
13:50.19Dougie187lol i thought you were older then that.
13:50.24Dougie187you should totally go for it.
13:50.29Dougie187are you married?
13:50.32michaelnovakjryea
13:50.38michaelnovakjrbut i make too much money
13:50.59michaelnovakjrwife just started as a school teacher
13:51.07michaelnovakjrso its tough
13:51.09Dougie187heh
13:51.15Dougie187well maybe your job will pay for some of it
13:51.58Dougie187what would you go for?
13:52.05michaelnovakjri'd want to not work for it
13:52.12michaelnovakjrengineering
13:52.20Dougie187any specific type of engineering?
13:52.29michaelnovakjrcomputer
13:52.46Dougie187are there any good engineering schools up there?
13:53.15michaelnovakjrnot really anything spectacular
13:53.50Dougie187my alma mater is trying to get in the top 25 for Engineering.
13:53.55Dougie187their Engineering program is huge though
13:54.06Dougie187and they have like the coolest building for EECS
13:54.19michaelnovakjrwhat school?
13:54.24Dougie187Oregon State
13:54.34Dougie187www.orst.edu
13:54.35Dougie187lol
13:54.35michaelnovakjrnice
13:54.42Dougie187its quite a ways away from you though
13:54.49michaelnovakjri'd say :)
13:54.55Dougie187did you just graduate?
13:55.19michaelnovakjrlast year
13:55.24michaelnovakjri'd been working though
13:55.35Dougie187well, you if you have any interest in it, you should take your GRE soon, and get References.
13:55.39michaelnovakjrlast two years i went at night
13:55.42Dougie187just so you have them in the future.
13:56.01michaelnovakjrits a good idea
13:56.31Dougie187I went to a seminar on grad school and they said that if you have any interest in it, before you get too far out of school you should apply to just 1 college for grad school.
13:56.38Dougie187that way you have all the stuff ready when you need to apply for real
13:56.56michaelnovakjrnot a bad idea
13:58.24Dougie187most colleges too, have a career center that you can have your letters of recommendation sent to, and they will hold them
13:58.32Dougie187(because hardly ever will a professor give you a copy of it)
13:58.38michaelnovakjrhaha.
13:58.42Dougie187and then you can call them and they will send it for oyu
13:58.50Dougie187incase your professor dies or something
13:58.54Dougie187that way you still have access to it
13:59.00michaelnovakjrhaha
13:59.05michaelnovakjrthat's a good point
13:59.13Dougie187one of my old professors had that happen to her.
13:59.24michaelnovakjrdamn
13:59.26Dougie187and the director of the program had to break into the dead guys office to get the letter.
13:59.27Dougie187lol
13:59.42michaelnovakjrhqah
14:01.49Dougie187well. i think i need to be going.
14:02.34Dougie187bbl
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14:33.04dcordessomebody got a htc kaiser?
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14:44.56dcordesdoes somebody know what amss version the kernel people have on halibut?
14:45.28dcordeswhere's swetland san etc when you need them ^^
14:55.13michaelnovakjrthey aren't in here
14:55.23michaelnovakjrthis channel isn't for installing hacked android
14:56.43dcordesmichaelnovakjr: where is the channel for installed hacked android?
14:56.54michaelnovakjrno idea
14:56.56dcordesI can actually make and receive calls, it is a WELL hacked android
14:57.01dcordes!
14:57.04michaelnovakjri have that version
14:57.08michaelnovakjrits not all that great
14:57.14dcordeswhat version?
14:57.28michaelnovakjrthe haret android package for win mobile
14:57.34dcordeshuh?
14:57.39michaelnovakjrmaking and receiving calls is all you can do with it
14:57.43michaelnovakjrthere isn't any software
14:57.48dcordesmichaelnovakjr: on what phone?
14:57.49michaelnovakjrits just the emulator sdk os
14:57.52michaelnovakjrhtc touch
14:57.57dcordesis that vogue?
14:58.01michaelnovakjryes
14:58.03dcordestouch is one of the marketing names
14:58.08michaelnovakjrit drains the battery in an hour as well
14:58.18dcordesah I see. yea it's great. the kernel is perfectly dzo did a great job here.
14:58.27michaelnovakjrits not that great
14:58.30dcordesyou can even use network right?
14:58.37michaelnovakjryes, but there's no software
14:58.43michaelnovakjronly a browser and maps
14:58.49michaelnovakjrand you can't save data
14:58.53dcordesah come on dzo spent a lot of free time porting the google msm kernel tree to the vogue!
14:59.03dcordesyea we have no storage yet on the htcs
14:59.09dcordesmmc driver isn't working yet
14:59.16michaelnovakjri understand that, but you can't do anything much with i
14:59.17michaelnovakjrt
14:59.26michaelnovakjrits neat for about five minutes and that's about it
14:59.29dcordes:)
14:59.47michaelnovakjrdefinitely has its issues
14:59.58michaelnovakjrwhen receiving calls sometimes the phone freaks out and freezes
15:00.08michaelnovakjryou can't see battery life or get and updated time either
15:01.05dcordesdid you try the latest kernel image and ramdisk image he release a few days ago?
15:01.56michaelnovakjrnope, there's no software available so the usage isn't what i need
15:02.18michaelnovakjronce you can actually run applications on it that do stuff it'll get more use
15:02.24michaelnovakjrfor now i am sticking with my treo
15:03.05michaelnovakjrare you a developer?
15:04.37dcordesnot a professional one
15:05.00michaelnovakjrwhat do you mean?
15:05.12dcordesI don't work as developer
15:05.57michaelnovakjrare you developing for android?
15:05.58dcordesI'm helping the real pros port the google msm kernel to htc kaiser and vice versa
15:06.09dcordesno
15:06.12dcordeskernel
15:06.25dcordesnot android applications
15:06.40michaelnovakjrwho are the real pros?
15:07.05dcordesthe android rootfs does a lot of magic that's required to make the audio and AT communication between arm9 and arm11 work so I will dive into it
15:07.05michaelnovakjryou do know that the device will be supported
15:07.27dcordesmichaelnovakjr: kaiser?
15:07.41dcordesdzo is one of the real pros
15:08.54dcordesmichaelnovakjr: you mean google will officially support the kaiser?
15:08.58dcordesthey'd eat our code :)
15:09.05michaelnovakjreat your code?
15:09.58dcordesyes, as in merege our modifications that enable to run the google msm tree on our htc devices
15:10.26dcordeslike vogue, niki, kaiser, titan, polaris  and friends
15:10.35michaelnovakjri'm familiar with the kernel, i just think its a waste of time to dev for anything related to android at the moment
15:11.02dcordeswell the linux kernel is the linux kernel. Your choice what you run on top of it...
15:11.37michaelnovakjrbut seeing as android is still NDA..
15:12.27dcordesI'm no big fan of android out of that reason.
15:12.43dcordesstill I like how fast and sexy the gui is
15:12.59michaelnovakjrand you forgot to mention outdated
15:13.05dcordesregarding those two parameters, it fucks every open source backend around
15:13.13michaelnovakjr?
15:13.27dcordeslook at openmoko qtopia and so on
15:13.40dcordesthey don't even come close to usability and speed of the android ui
15:14.30michaelnovakjrwhat part of the kernel are you working on
15:14.36dcordes*
15:14.48dcordesmostly the msm specific stuff
15:14.59michaelnovakjrwhich is..
15:15.11dcordesjust look at our tree ok?
15:15.17michaelnovakjrwhere is it
15:15.27dcordesone second
15:15.43dcordeshttp://git.linuxtogo.org/?p=groups/mobile-linux/kernel.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/htc-msm
15:16.06dcordesthe latest changes to the smd code that make phone on the msm7200 htcs work will hit the git tomorrow
15:16.53dcordesneeds some cleanup
15:17.07michaelnovakjrhave you committed anything?
15:17.18dcordesI'm luke
15:19.52dcordesnext goals are mmc and bluetooth
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15:23.17michaelnovakjrif you aren't a pro developer what do you do?
15:24.00dcordes_michaelnovakjr: I just finished school
15:24.20michaelnovakjrwhere'd you attend?
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15:25.11dcordes_grammar school
15:28.03dcordes_michaelnovakjr: what about you? What are you doing and what's your connection with android?
15:28.44michaelnovakjri work full time as a developer, and i am developing applications for android
15:29.13dcordes_cool. did you participate in the 50 billion dollar contest?
15:29.31michaelnovakjryea
15:30.17dcordes_michaelnovakjr: so did you win something? :)
15:31.19michaelnovakjrnope
15:32.27dcordes_michaelnovakjr: what applications do you work on/did you make?
15:32.49michaelnovakjri worked on weatherphone
15:33.13michaelnovakjri am working on a few others that haven't been released because development stopped until an updated SDK is out
15:33.39dcordes_ok cool keep it up. I hope the whole dalvik thing will be open sourced one day
15:34.05michaelnovakjrit all depends
15:34.15michaelnovakjrwe already know not everything will be open source
15:34.16dcordes_I like the kernel very much still :)
15:35.23dcordes_michaelnovakjr: did you see that input method which won $$?
15:35.32michaelnovakjrwhat was the name of it
15:36.07dcordes_hmm no idea I saw it on some news website. You can jus slide around an on screen keyboad in order to type
15:36.30michaelnovakjrhaven't seen i
15:36.31michaelnovakjrt
15:36.49michaelnovakjri'm working on a cross-platform diff utility for linux/windows
15:37.20michaelnovakjri hate the fact windows users can't open a linux diff in a GUI
15:37.22dcordes_why not using patch in cygwin?
15:37.39michaelnovakjrsome people i work with like GUI apps for their diffs
15:37.40dcordes_or try microsoft visual patch 2009 professional edition for vista :D
15:37.58michaelnovakjrdoes the visual patch app read linux diffs?
15:37.59dcordes_I also do sometimes I use kdiff3
15:38.11dcordes_michaelnovakjr: sorry I was just trying to be funny
15:38.20michaelnovakjrthought so
15:38.22dcordes_about the visual patch ^^
15:38.36michaelnovakjri hate microsoft
15:38.46michaelnovakjri don't usually follow their product lines unless i have to :)
15:39.06dcordes_don't gotta tell me. that's the reason I got a kaiser
15:39.22dcordes_a nice device always deserves linux support
15:39.24michaelnovakjri don't use my htc phone yet
15:39.33dcordes_the vogue?
15:39.37michaelnovakjrwaiting for android.... i'm still using my treo
15:39.38michaelnovakjryep
15:40.47dcordes_I'm really impressed how quick android is
15:40.59michaelnovakjryea, it runs fast...
15:41.06michaelnovakjrbut its also not running any apps :)
15:41.24dcordes_you mean on your vogue?
15:42.03michaelnovakjryea
15:43.21dcordes_I think you can easily put stuff in
15:43.28dcordes_do you know how you extract and repack the initrd?
15:43.33michaelnovakjryea
15:43.40dcordes_ok
15:43.44michaelnovakjri meant that its really really fast because no user apps are on it.
15:43.50dcordes_aah gotcha
15:44.02dcordes_well to my understanding, any count of apps wouldn't matter
15:44.33dcordes_because android uses nice process management that makes the background stuff not spend resources
15:46.59michaelnovakjri'm sure the process management is nice, but the kernel can only do so much :)
15:48.04dcordes_michaelnovakjr: ramdisk is the limiting paramter there
15:48.18dcordes_as you know there's no storage yet so we are working entirely from the ram
15:48.32michaelnovakjri meant when android is officially released
15:49.12dcordes_I'm looking forward to the next release where you can drag the desktop around and so
15:49.19dcordes_will be useful on a qvga device
15:50.07michaelnovakjri just want a new sdk so i can continue developing
15:51.20dcordes_michaelnovakjr: can't you just continue with the current one?
15:51.59michaelnovakjrapparently the changes are very significant
15:52.27dcordes_I can't imagine THEY will break the work of all of you people
15:52.44dcordes_anyway gotta run, bye
15:52.45michaelnovakjruh, sure they will
15:52.53michaelnovakjrthey have already said that
15:54.14jastayawn
15:54.22michaelnovakjrhowdy
15:54.53jastadcordes_: they have already admitted that, moving forward, APIs will change, new features will be introduced, etc.
15:55.14michaelnovakjrhe's one of those kernel hackers
15:55.30jastaand we have no forewarning as to how much, what those features might be, etc.  how can an engineer work under those conditions?
15:55.40michaelnovakjr:)
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16:02.10jastaalso, the biggest problem for me is that there are huge bugs in a particular area i need to work :)
16:02.24jastaand still a lot of confusion as to how GTalk will fit in for alerts.
16:02.24michaelnovakjrme too
16:02.35michaelnovakjryea, they haven't expanded on that yet
16:02.48jastathere are just plain too damn many unknowns to comfortably move forward.
16:03.04jastabbl
16:03.23michaelnovakjrlater
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16:13.01jastaback ;)
16:13.11michaelnovakjrquick
16:13.33jastasomething really weird happened last night
16:13.38jastaand now both my eyes are bloodshot :)
16:13.46jastalike a popped simultaneous blood vessels
16:13.54michaelnovakjrweird
16:13.56jastai*
16:14.02michaelnovakjrdoes your work think its drugs?
16:14.19jastayeah, and looking at it makes me very aware of it, so i feel like my eyes "hurt" :)
16:14.56michaelnovakjr:)
16:15.01michaelnovakjrfunny how that works huh?
16:15.12michaelnovakjryour eyes associate that view with pain
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16:15.33michaelnovakjrso your brain doesn't know the difference and its like oh yea... ouch that does hurt :)
16:15.38jastaright, but of course they don't, since there is no ability to feel pain in a bloodshot eye :)
16:15.44michaelnovakjryea :)
16:15.47Smoke_ScreenHey, need some help please
16:15.50jastawhen i think of very sharp objects
16:15.53jastalike a long thing blade
16:15.59michaelnovakjryea
16:16.02jastait makes the back of my legs hurt, where they bend...
16:16.12yakischlobawierdo
16:16.16Smoke_ScreenTrying to use intents to launch my app when a bittorrent file is clicked on in the browser
16:16.19michaelnovakjryea... i am reading an interesting book on the brain
16:16.32jastaand i imagine, without control, that the little tenden connecting your leg there is being cut, as with scissors or something
16:16.41jastaSmoke_Screen: can't be done currently.
16:17.12jastamichaelnovakjr: i saw this really fascinating program on phantom limbs once
16:17.15Smoke_Screenjasta: serious, damn thought I was close
16:17.22michaelnovakjryea, jasta
16:17.26jastathis man complained for years that his left hand ached, though he had lost his entirely left arm.
16:17.30michaelnovakjrthe phantom theory is amazing
16:17.35jastascientists devised a way to cure him, that worked.
16:17.46Smoke_Screenjasta: that I was just missing something
16:17.58jastathey constructed this booth with mirrors on the side, so he would sit in it, and put his right arm in a hole
16:18.02michaelnovakjryou can actually run a test similiar to the phantom theory but it doesn't require you to have lost anything
16:18.04michaelnovakjryea
16:18.06jastathe mirror would make it seem as though he had a left arm if he looked to his left
16:18.10michaelnovakjri've seen that before
16:18.15jastathen, he simply did some basic exercises with his right arm, looking at his left
16:18.18jastaand he claims it cured him
16:18.33Smoke_Screenjasta: Thanks, that's a waste of a day
16:18.55jastaSmoke_Screen: yup, and i bet it's probably possible in the next SDK too.  which has no known release date, yay! :)
16:19.13michaelnovakjrSmoke_Screen, basically go on vacation until the next sdk
16:19.41michaelnovakjrjasta, there's an experiment where a blind man was able to see using his tongue to transmit images from a lens
16:19.55Smoke_Screenjasta: well I am go to the States in September but my final year project is due in November so wanted it done with by then
16:20.02yakischlobamichaelnovakjr: i have heard jasta mention that everyone is sitting around until next SDK. have the current possibilities already been exhausted, is that it?
16:20.09jastamichaelnovakjr: wow.
16:20.23michaelnovakjryakischloba, google has stated that the new sdk will break current apps
16:20.32yakischlobaOh.
16:20.44michaelnovakjryea jasta, the claim is that the brain only sees a certain type of pattern
16:20.45jastayakischloba: no, the current SDK is just really buggy, and Google has already gone chopping away at it, changing things, adding new features, etc.  None of which is being publicly disclosed.
16:20.55yakischlobathoroughly useless.
16:21.05michaelnovakjrand that the inputs from your touch and sight are not different and can be routed.
16:21.17jastayakischloba: if you're curious, the ADC winners are under NDA with Google and as such are given access to the newest versions.
16:21.29michaelnovakjrthe stimulation in the visual area is seeing activity where the sense of touch normally would
16:21.31jastamichaelnovakjr: like an APIC, hehe, neat.
16:21.42yakischlobajasta: I take it you are not one of them? :(
16:21.45michaelnovakjryea, and how they say blind people have acute hearing
16:21.59jastayakischloba: nope, i'm not, though we have some that are in this channel.  that is why we know that bit of news.
16:22.05jastasince Google of course has not announced anything
16:22.24yakischlobajasta: I figured you would be, being the bright little sunbeam that you are.
16:22.56jastathere's no need for sarcasm :)
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16:23.15michaelnovakjr:) yea its not his fault.... its google's yakischloba
16:23.19jastathough if you are curious, my project is hosted at five.googlecode.com
16:25.06yakischlobahaha. I'm just here to hang out and keep track of whats going on. I'm a ruby nerd, I doubt I could ever be proficient in a 'real' language ;)
16:25.24michaelnovakjrhaha yea probably not.... ruby is annoying
16:25.31michaelnovakjrno offense :)
16:25.49michaelnovakjri just hate those ruby guys who think their work is perfect and that all bugs are intentional features
16:25.53yakischlobaat some point I had aspirations of learning Java and coding android apps but I think it would require me to sink way more time into it than would be worth it
16:26.18yakischlobaand by the time I produced anything useful, 10 other people would have written the same app way better
16:26.21michaelnovakjrwell, you should do yourself a favor and get off the ruby kick!
16:27.25yakischlobaheh. well I have no formal education in programming so really i'm just a script junkie. I have however, had an easier understanding other languages when I encounter, since learning ruby
16:27.34Dougie187its not that hard.
16:27.47michaelnovakjrprogramming isn't hard
16:27.57michaelnovakjrits rocket science :)
16:28.00michaelnovakjrhaha
16:28.02michaelnovakjrnot really though
16:28.07Dougie187lol
16:28.11yakischlobaComes easier for some than others, thats for sure.
16:28.17Dougie187good thing rocket science is easy!
16:28.24Dougie187well you know how to write scripts.
16:28.37Dougie187you have at least a little experience.
16:29.15michaelnovakjrthat can be bad though
16:29.22yakischlobayeah. definitely.
16:29.25michaelnovakjrscripting i have some problems with
16:30.05yakischlobaRuby lets you get away with all kinds of retarded stuff that won't fly other places.
16:30.11michaelnovakjryea
16:31.25yakischlobashrug. its allowing me to produce results for the time being.
16:31.27Dougie187but at least your on the right track.
16:31.36Dougie187and there are tons of tutorials online for most languages.
16:31.39yakischloba(and getting me paid.)
16:33.06yakischlobaYeah. its hard to find the time in the day to put into learning something whos return is a long ways off.
16:33.31michaelnovakjri do it all the time :)
16:33.43michaelnovakjri'm always learning something new
16:33.54jastayakischloba: don't use lack of education as a crutch.
16:34.19yakischloba-_-
16:35.18jastaCS programs are hardly responsible for delivering formal programming training.
16:35.30Dougie187lol
16:35.37yakischlobaI have a hard time settling on what I should spend my little free time learning. Java? (bias here maybe)
16:35.50Dougie187most of them dont have the interpersonal communication skills to deliver it very well.
16:35.56jastayakischloba: You're thinking about the problem all wrong.
16:35.59dcordes_jasta: 17:54 < jasta> dcordes_: they have already admitted that, moving forward, APIs will change, new features will be introduced, etc. <- does that mean you'll have to revisit all kinds of stuff that were made for the current version of the sdk?
16:36.00michaelnovakjryou have to keep learning in the computer industry
16:36.16michaelnovakjrdcordes_: absolutely yes
16:36.20Dougie187yakischloba: it doesnt matter. just learn something.
16:36.21jastadcordes_: presumably, yes, but as i said they have clarified nothing on the order of scope or scale.
16:36.44jastayakischloba: don't focus on language X or Y, or toolchain Z.  Just think of something you want that doesn't exist.
16:36.46michaelnovakjrthat is what you get when developing for a platform still in development itself
16:36.48jastaOr something that does which should be better.
16:36.53Dougie187once you learn one language its really easy to convert another language.
16:36.54jastaThen learn waht is appropriate to make that possible.
16:37.03dcordes_jasta: michaelnovakjr: at least you can't complain since you did it for cash :D
16:37.17jastaFor example, I have been programming C for 10 years, and picked up Java simply to tackle my Android project.
16:37.54jastadcordes_: But I didn't do it for cash.
16:37.54yakischlobaSure. I suppose it would help a lot to be around other computer people. I think that would be more conducive to learning than my current solo gig.
16:37.55jastadcordes_: For the record, my app is one of the *VERY* few open source Android apps out there.
16:38.08jastayakischloba: Nope, probably not.  You're just making lame excuses.
16:38.13michaelnovakjryea my stuff is all open source
16:38.16yakischlobahaha. ok.
16:38.17jastaIf you aren't interested in building something, just use that excuse :)
16:38.33michaelnovakjrdcordes_: i don't plan to charge anything for my apps on android
16:38.54yakischlobaI'll tug my panties out of my gash and be cranking out amazing code tomorrow morning.
16:39.45Dougie187michaelnovakjr: are you going to complete your project?
16:39.47dcordes_I was just alluding to the rewards :)
16:39.48Dougie187or is it over?
16:40.14michaelnovakjrDougie187, the weatherphone is dead six feet under
16:40.27michaelnovakjri had started another one but stopped because of the sdk
16:40.37Dougie187sad panda
16:41.02michaelnovakjr:)
16:41.23Dougie187i havent even started writing anything yet because of the sdk issue
16:42.53michaelnovakjrnot a bad idea
16:43.21Hai-Faisdk issue meaning "'cause new hasn't arrived" or something else with sdk?
16:43.27jastadcordes_: the rewards with the ADC are merely a fortunate coincidence for me.
16:43.34jastai had already begun my app on Windows Mobile prior to Android :)
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16:43.44dcordes_jasta: what's your app?
16:43.46Dougie187Hai-Fai: #1
16:43.50jastadcordes_: http://five.googlecode.com
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16:46.25dcordes_jasta: I prefer scp to put music on my portable devices :)
16:46.38dcordes_looks like a nice program though
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16:47.19jastadcordes_: i doubt very much that your approach is popular :)
16:47.26michaelnovakjrhaha
16:47.30michaelnovakjrscp.... dude why?
16:47.49Dougie187lol i dont put music on my portable devices. but i like scp
16:48.09jastai dont currently put my music on my phone, or really even my laptop.
16:48.17michaelnovakjrthat's like saying i scp video to my dvr
16:48.17jastabecause it's such a lame, tedious process :)
16:48.31Dougie187yeah
16:48.32dcordes_also rsync
16:48.42Dougie187i would enjoy five for my laptop from my desktop
16:48.44jastadcordes_: i also am working on a Rhythmbox plugin to support my system.
16:48.52michaelnovakjrdo you even have a desktop dcordes_
16:48.57dcordes_jasta: ah that program is for streaming?
16:49.03michaelnovakjryes
16:49.07jastamy program?  yes.
16:49.30jastait syncs meta data passively, then streams content on demand.
16:49.36jastaand caches it, of course.
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16:49.55Dougie187hey jasta can the user specify the cache size?
16:49.55dcordes_what does passively mean?
16:50.09Dougie187behind the scenes.
16:50.15jastadcordes_: the meta data is synchronized on a schedule currently, away from the foreground attetion of the user.
16:50.32dcordes_ah automagic, I see
16:50.35jastaeventually, with GTalk, I hope to support server-side alerts, so that changes in the collection can be immediately sensed and retransmitted to the device.
16:50.54jastathe server, of course, knows precisely when changes are made and what they are.
16:51.02jastathe synchronization transmits only those changes
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16:51.21dcordes_jasta: are you aiming at 3g data use?
16:51.29jastathe purpose of this is so that navigating the interface is responsive and local.  only audio playback can possibly require network function.
16:51.47jastadcordes_: Yes, although I have used my real Windows Mobile handset with some tools I wrote to test the system's performance under various conditions.
16:51.50jastaincluding EDGE and GPRS.
16:51.59jastaGPRS...uhh, does not work, but EDGE works fine.
16:52.08jasta3G works spectacularly well, typically seeing speeds twice as fast as necessary
16:52.13jastawith only a second or two of warm-up.
16:52.39jastadcordes_: Five preempts the user as well.  When the current song is done downloading, but still playing, it'll prefetch the next tracks.
16:52.42Dougie187hey jasta does the user get to specify the cache size?
16:53.07jastaNot right now, but my ultimately goal is to use a scheme where the user can choose a size or percentage to honor as free space.
16:53.15Dougie187ok
16:53.24jastaSo, rather than say it can use 80% of the SD card, or 1GB or something, you say it can use all *but* 10%.
16:53.25Dougie187can a user access the cache?
16:53.30dcordes_jasta: 128K mp3 stream works great on my kaiser with umts
16:53.50dcordes_didn't try other streaming
16:53.50Dougie187for instance in the rhythmbox plugin.
16:53.51jastaI hope to implement an offline mode, when the radio is off.  So only stuff in the cache can be seen/played.
16:53.58Dougie187ok
16:54.05jastaOh, for the rhythmbox plugin, no.  For the eventual FUSE approach, yes.
16:54.24jastai mean, it'll just be a bunch of flat files in ~/.five i imagine, so you could access it that way :)
16:54.37Dougie187but could you just copy them?
16:54.54jastanot directly, Rhythmbox wouldn't support this I think.
16:55.01Dougie187ok
16:55.13jastabut as i said, i eventually want to do a FUSE implementation to support all players
16:55.16jastaand Mac OS X
16:55.26Dougie187yeah
16:55.29jastabut its much more complicated.  it will require two components working very closely together
16:55.48jastaa daemon that can sync the meta data and populate the FUSE mount, and then the FUSE side to actually implement what the daemon populates.
16:56.37Dougie187have you seen how it scales with multiple clients accessing the server simultaneous?
16:56.40Dougie187ly*
16:58.46jastano, but there is no reason to believe it would not work well assuming you have sufficient upstream bandwidth.
16:59.15Dougie187define sufficient?
16:59.15jastathe server uses libsyncml and libsoup (for HTTP), both of which are multiplexing.
16:59.34Dougie187i mean 56k is obviously not enough.
16:59.40jastawell, if you are streaming a 128kbit mp3 from two sources, imagine that you will need 256kbit of upstream ;)
16:59.55jastaor rather, *to* two sources ;)
17:00.01Dougie187yeah
17:02.41jastai hope to also support FLAC and a wide range of other formats by transcoding them on-the-fly at the server.
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17:02.55Dougie187sounds pretty awesome
17:02.55Dougie187im download Planet Earth.
17:03.02Dougie187its super slow though.
17:03.03jastaand it will be, once Google stops jerking us around :)
17:03.03Dougie187lol
17:04.02dcordes_Dougie187: the spinning 3d globe app?
17:04.02Dougie187well, dont expect that to stop anytime soon.
17:04.02Dougie187dcordes_: you mean Google Earth.
17:04.02Dougie187and no.
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17:04.06dcordes_Dougie187: no I don't mean google earth. I mean the spinning 3d globe app.
17:04.06dcordes_in android. one of the demos
17:04.06Dougie187then again. i would respond no.
17:04.30Dougie187the Discovery TV series.
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17:13.28Dougie187heh
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17:13.28jastaDougie187: well, not suprisingly they cover Challenger and Columbia.
17:13.28jastaso thats kinda sad
17:13.28dcordes_Dougie187: there's no disovery tv here
17:13.28Dougie187yeah
17:13.28muthuman on moon
17:13.28muthuwas that shot off florida?
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17:55.45spykidHaha, who was asking what Euro2008 is? - http://germany.usembassy.gov/warden/2008-06-24/index2.html
17:55.54michaelnovakjrhaha
17:56.48Dougie187...
17:56.59Dougie187you tend to be a day behind in ever conversation.
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17:57.57Dougie187hey jasta you around?
18:00.58Dougie187brb
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18:04.05Dougie187back
18:08.00jastayeah
18:08.40muthuyo
18:08.56muthujasta want to show you something
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19:26.17jastawhat?
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20:40.55Dougie187(its his weiner)
20:40.58Dougie187(look out)
20:41.06thesnark...what
20:42.22jastawhy, what?
20:42.29jastaerr
20:42.33jastai meant yea, what? :)
20:43.22michaelnovakjrhaha
20:43.40michaelnovakjris there an issue tracker for the android kernel
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20:45.23jastai dont think so
20:47.17jastabut there is a mailing list, with what i imagine is very little traffic
20:47.23jastaso its probably a good place for that
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20:58.08Dougie187lol did you get what i was talking about jasta?
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21:12.24Dougie187jasta you here?
21:12.33f00f-nah he cut
21:12.40Dougie187cut what?
21:13.26f00f-g-speak broski
21:13.39Dougie187g-speak?
21:13.41Dougie187wtf is that?
21:13.52michaelnovakjrgoogle-speak>
21:13.54f00f-forget it
21:13.55michaelnovakjr?
21:14.00Dougie187f00f-: who are you?
21:14.05Dougie187crazy ass.
21:17.33jastaoh lord
21:17.45jastawe're getting a new telecom provider in our Idaho office right...
21:17.58jastait was supposed to be all set up on Friday, but they delayed pretty significantly to July 8th
21:18.07Dougie187lol
21:18.15jastaso i called our existing provider and said "hey, delay the cancelation to July 15th" (from July 3rd)
21:18.16Dougie187hey jasta wanna test my pptp server?
21:18.22jastathey are "not sure if they can do that"
21:18.45jastaand that they're going to charge us $200 to make the change, assuming they are capable.
21:19.00jastai have no idea what the hell they are talking about.  shutting off T-1 service?  what the fuck work do you have to do!?
21:19.25Dougie187lol
21:19.29Dougie187that sucks
21:20.22jastait's not like they laid the damn line
21:20.30jastaand even if they did, its not like you'd unwire it.
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21:29.58yogaboyThe emulator on my Linux box is kind of slow.  I wonder if I upgrade to 2 GHz CPU, how good will it be?
21:31.32f00f-who knows
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21:36.29yogaboyWhat is the speed of CPU for ok development Android?
21:36.44f00f-i clock my laptop at around 1.60 GHz
21:36.45f00f-and it's usable
21:36.48Dougie187isnt there a system requirements?
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21:38.39Dougie187http://code.google.com/android/intro/installing.html#developmentrequirements
21:39.29yogaboyI don't have "Open run dialog" menu in my eclipse, althought I installed the Android JDT.  How come?
21:40.09f00f-you have it
21:40.16f00f-go into the java perspective
21:40.26f00f-and it's not a menu buddy, it's in the Run menu
21:41.35yogaboyf00f-: I am in Java EE  perspective. but I don't have "Open run dialog"
21:41.57f00f-what do you have
21:41.59f00f-that is similar
21:44.56yogaboyI just have "Run" Ctrl-F11 and "Debug" F11 etc, but not "Open Run Dialog".
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21:51.54yogaboyf00f-: Do you emulator respond ok?
21:57.59f00f-it's ok
21:58.00f00f-not perfect
21:58.06f00f-click runthen
21:58.10f00f-Click Run
21:58.15f00f-create new launch config
21:58.16f00f-for android
21:59.40yogaboyf00f-: How long it take for your emulator to start the Hello World?
21:59.56f00f-emulator boots in around 3-5 minutes
22:00.05f00f-hello world starts in about 5 seconds
22:01.38yogaboyDoes anyone had a 2GHz CPU, and how long is it to start the emulator and the Hello World?
22:02.17jastayogaboy: the emulator is miserably slow, even on fast hardware.  though, for some reason it does seem to perform better on macs.
22:04.04f00f-i have a 2.13 GHz CPU that runs the emulator
22:04.10f00f-but i step it down to 1.60 due to heat issues
22:04.12yogaboyMy emulator is just show the giant moving rad dot, I guess it's still starting up.
22:04.18f00f-i also have ran it on a Cure Duo
22:04.23f00f-at around 1.8 or so
22:04.25michaelnovakjri have a 2.8 dual core with 4gigs of ram and the emulator is slow
22:04.26f00f-and runs bloody fast
22:04.29f00f-too fast for comfort
22:05.15yogaboymichaelnovakjr: How fast is your Hello World?
22:05.28michaelnovakjrwhat do you mean?
22:05.34michaelnovakjrits just a string
22:05.45Dougie187lol
22:05.55f00f-hahahhahahaha
22:05.55f00f-rofl
22:06.04yogaboyHow long it take's to start Hello World after the emulator started?
22:06.12f00f-dude it takes 5 seconds
22:06.15f00f-is that too long to wait?
22:06.17michaelnovakjrit starts right away
22:06.34michaelnovakjrit calls one ui file and loads 'just one' string
22:06.45michaelnovakjrits the emulator that can take awhile to boot
22:06.55f00f-he understands that
22:07.03f00f-well HW proabyl takes 1-2 sce
22:07.13yogaboyI am still looking at the red gient dot move on the emulator.
22:07.23f00f-shit, apps on my symbian phone take more time to start than on the emulator
22:07.32f00f-yofaboy
22:07.35jastayogaboy: if you're curious, invoke the emulator with -verbose
22:07.50jastait pipes the kernels output to stdout
22:07.53michaelnovakjryogaboy: if you try to catch the red dot it might stop loading and show you the app :)
22:07.57f00f-it's still booting yogaboy
22:08.32yogaboyf00f-: Yes, it still booting.
22:09.01michaelnovakjryogaboy: you are trying this on linux
22:09.21jastacoughs and reminds yogaboy to use -verbose
22:09.39yogaboymichaelnovakjr: Yes, I am using OpenSuse 11 on 1.3 GHZ CPU.
22:10.16michaelnovakjroh ew opensuse, its probably some microsoft code Novell slipped in your machine
22:10.17yogaboyAh, I see it now, my Hello Wold finally show up!
22:10.21michaelnovakjrhaha
22:10.28f00f-bro, dont go there
22:10.29michaelnovakjrnow don't turn the emulator off!
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22:10.54jastai just pictured f00f snapping his fingers and flipping us all attitude
22:10.59michaelnovakjrhahahaha
22:11.06jastareally made me chuckle at my desk here
22:11.07michaelnovakjrthat is exactly how i understood it jasta
22:11.13Dougie187lol
22:11.18Dougie187too bad he didnt add girlfriend to it
22:11.24michaelnovakjrhaha
22:11.40michaelnovakjryogaboy: you should really run it again with verbose on to see what it gets hung on
22:11.49yogaboyNow how do I run the apps again without restart the emulator?
22:11.50f00f-haha
22:13.01michaelnovakjrisn't that documented somewhere.... check out the getting started guide at http://code.google.com/android
22:14.01jastayogaboy: just run them.  escape, btw, is equivalent to the phones back key
22:14.42michaelnovakjralso clicking the back button is too
22:14.44michaelnovakjr:)
22:14.50michaelnovakjron that note....
22:14.56michaelnovakjrbe back later
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23:14.03muthuyo
23:14.59jastathese women in customer service make me wish we didn't let women in the work place.
23:15.11jastahowever, the women in project management make me glad we did :)
23:15.16jastahehe
23:15.47jastai sometimes just feel like standing up and yelling over the cubes "SHUT THE HELL UP ABOUT YOUR CAT!"
23:20.47muthuwhy women in customer service are good
23:21.28muthuwomen are so important for our workplace
23:21.36jerkface03lol
23:21.38jerkface03psycho
23:23.01jastahehe, one of my friends is big about the women in technology kick.  we disagree on a lot of topics in that area ;0
23:24.41jastanot that i have a problem with the end goal, i just think specializing it by industry and in adulthood makes no sense.  it seems obvious enough to me that it's a coarsing social problem that started way before students are picking their majors.
23:24.51jastacoursing*
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23:27.22muthuhey, waiting for gphone
23:27.30muthumeanwhile which phone to buy?
23:27.50muthujasta: what phone you have now?
23:28.24jastai have a moto q9h, and while i hate windows mobile, i just adore the keyboard on this device.
23:28.36jastait stands out to me as one of my favorite phones i've used for that reason
23:30.08jastai do a lot of texting and emailing from my phone
23:30.48f00f-oh
23:31.02f00f-cant wait to upgrade firmware on my N95 and possibly brick it
23:31.32jastaive actually never owned a nokia phone
23:31.41jastasomehow, they have never appealed to me
23:31.51jastamaybe i just dont know what im talking about :)
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23:32.23f00f-yes probably
23:33.42muthunokia seems to be popular
23:33.51muthun95 for its video thingy
23:34.43jastabtw, i am going to punch someone in the teeth if they manufacturer the first android phone without a standard 3.5mm headphone jack
23:34.56Dougie187lol
23:35.08jastai cant stand how many smartphones require stupid adapters just to plug in headphones or aux in your car
23:35.13Dougie187true.
23:35.21Dougie187but do you think they will oppose that convention?
23:35.35jastawell, most of the good smartphones do have 3.5mm headphone jacks :)
23:35.38f00f-many have 2.5mm jack
23:35.39jastalike, apparently, this n95 and the iPhone
23:35.42f00f-glad mine has 3.5mm :P
23:35.55f00f-i dont know what video thingy you speak of muthu
23:36.01muthuprobably will get a nokia
23:36.03jastaf00f-: all the ones ive used require adapters that use the same port for power and headphones
23:36.09jastaso you cant even hcarge it while you listen
23:36.10jastastupid
23:36.14f00f-jasta they may not be smart phones :P
23:36.20muthuf00f-:  n95 supports 3g/video
23:36.23jastaall the winmo handsets are like that
23:36.31f00f-muthu: all phones support video.....
23:36.35Dougie187that is retarded.
23:36.35f00f-oh ok
23:36.49muthusince nokia has opensourced symbian.. i'm beginning to like them
23:37.04jastayeah that is exciting news
23:37.10jastaunfortunately, Symbian code is an absolute mess
23:37.21muthuyeah, heard programming symbian is hell
23:37.22f00f-yeah it's utter shit that needs major rewriting for 21st century
23:37.23jastacoding for it is very clumsy
23:37.36f00f-_L("hello, world string");
23:38.02muthuwoah
23:38.04f00f-Open C needs to become a first-class citizen
23:38.15muthuanything with underscore, is a complete screwup
23:38.19f00f-keep the kernel and rip out everything else and start over
23:38.47muthulots of underscores in python too ;)
23:38.52f00f-we'll see if on demand paging makes gmail start in less than 10 seconds
23:39.27muthugmail is acting a bit wierd these days
23:39.57muthuand OM seems to have a problem with his google domain account
23:40.07jastawell actually, that _L is normally an internationalization thing.
23:40.09f00f-so you know om right
23:40.20jastaand its not too horrible when you think about how much power it has.
23:40.23f00f-i was at the sun startup camp a few weeks ago
23:40.28f00f-and they accidentally gave me his badge
23:40.30f00f-until i realized
23:41.00muthujasta: have you seen this IO photo?
23:41.07jastawhich?
23:41.21muthuf00f-: really?
23:41.33muthui know OM, he doesn't know me :)
23:41.44muthujasta: let me show you
23:41.46f00f-muthu: yeah, same last name, but i aint no Ommmmmmmmmmmmmm
23:41.51muthuhaha
23:42.01muthuyeah, now i know why it got mixed up
23:42.05muthulol
23:42.26f00f-oh the pic from facebook
23:42.28f00f-with jasta on the left
23:42.48muthuoh yeah!
23:42.50f00f-where di i see that
23:42.54f00f-oh here
23:43.02f00f-http://photos-g.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v248/129/13/742180340/n742180340_3381886_2120.jpg
23:43.03jastahuh?
23:43.08muthucheck it out
23:43.24f00f-still wearin that same jacket muthu? :)
23:43.27jastaaww nuts, you get to see my nervous tick.
23:43.39Dougie187lol
23:43.39muthuf00f-: that's not mine in fact
23:43.45Dougie187playing with your wristband?
23:43.50jastayeah.  i did that a lot.
23:44.02muthuactually, that was the good part in IO
23:44.04jastai hardly even wanted to take it off when it came night time because i had been playing with it all damn day
23:44.05muthuthe meeting with jasta
23:44.17jastai really enjoyed getting smashed that night :)
23:44.18f00f-LOL
23:44.27Dougie187who else is there?
23:44.52muthuf00f-: who's next to jasta?
23:44.56muthudon't remember his name
23:44.58f00f-the guy
23:45.02jastato my left?  some dude.  he gave me a business card or something
23:45.05jastai doubt i still have it
23:45.09f00f-i think the guy on the right came to the dinner thing
23:45.10Dougie187whos on the right?
23:45.10muthuthe other guy is vergil
23:45.16f00f-oh right
23:45.27muthubehind me is travis
23:46.06f00f-wow, i didnt realize that restaurant had nice backdrop
23:46.11f00f-http://photos-a.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v248/129/13/742180340/n742180340_3381776_7409.jpg
23:46.30jastaa girl?  lies! :)
23:46.37jastathat must be f00f's girl
23:46.49f00f-hahaha
23:46.59f00f-no that's muthu's teammate
23:47.00f00f-har har
23:47.07jastabut you totally hit that, right? :)
23:47.28muthuha, this is a good one
23:47.41muthuzach is so cool
23:47.57muthuso is amir
23:48.10muthuso is travis and finn
23:48.25muthuthat was a long night :)
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23:51.10muthui think that's the only IO photo of me
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23:51.38jastawhose facebook account uploaded those?
23:52.14muthujasta: you got facebook?
23:52.28jastauhhhhhh no
23:52.32Dougie187lol
23:52.34Dougie187i do.
23:52.46Dougie187but the only reason i got facebook was so my wife's facebook would say "Married to"
23:52.54Dougie187i refuse to get myspace though
23:53.25muthufriendfeed is cool
23:53.43Dougie187don't you mean lame?
23:54.10muthuDougie187: get off the games, and get into SN
23:54.15muthuyou'll have more fun
23:54.27Dougie187hah
23:54.28Dougie187yeah right.
23:54.29f00f-explain, while i run to ameeting
23:54.32Dougie187i dont have fun stalking people.
23:54.39f00f-add random people you dont know
23:54.40f00f-etc.
23:55.01Dougie187your like "yay this is awesome, i love pretending i have 100's of friends"
23:55.02Dougie187lol

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