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| 01:15.08 | michaelnovakjr_ | howdy |
| 01:18.17 | Dougie187 | hey michaelnovakjr |
| 01:18.20 | Dougie187 | hows it going? |
| 01:20.07 | Dougie187 | michaelnovakjr_ you around? |
| 01:23.33 | michaelnovakjr_ | yep |
| 01:23.41 | Dougie187 | did you get my messages this weekend? |
| 01:23.42 | michaelnovakjr_ | what's up? |
| 01:23.50 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 01:23.53 | michaelnovakjr_ | nope... just saw you ask if i was around |
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| 01:32.50 | |Phocion| | hey all |
| 01:33.03 | Dougie187 | hello |
| 01:34.07 | michaelnovakjr_ | howdy |
| 01:36.47 | TSchultz55 | hey so michaelnovakjr_ I did a logcat when I could recreate Android hanging at startup |
| 01:37.21 | michaelnovakjr_ | got the output? |
| 01:37.26 | TSchultz55 | "W/SurfaceFlinger (517): executeScheduleBroadcasts() skipped, contention on the client. We'll try again later...." |
| 01:37.33 | TSchultz55 | just keeps saying that |
| 01:38.46 | michaelnovakjr_ | what does it say right before that? |
| 01:39.46 | TSchultz55 | nothing that i can see that strikes me as importanty |
| 01:40.03 | michaelnovakjr_ | do you have the whole output? |
| 01:40.14 | TSchultz55 | "Granting new permission com.google.android.maps.permission......." |
| 01:40.27 | TSchultz55 | yeah 1 sec |
| 01:41.21 | TSchultz55 | ah here we go |
| 01:41.22 | TSchultz55 | http://markmail.org/message/anybxyarwitlofsr |
| 01:41.28 | TSchultz55 | looks like similar problem |
| 01:42.58 | michaelnovakjr_ | interesting |
| 01:44.01 | TSchultz55 | yeah thats pretty much the same thing im seeing |
| 01:44.09 | TSchultz55 | endless "We'll try again later..." |
| 01:44.23 | TSchultz55 | and its hit or miss |
| 01:44.24 | michaelnovakjr_ | have to attempted the adb kill-server? |
| 01:44.28 | TSchultz55 | yeah |
| 01:44.42 | michaelnovakjr_ | work? |
| 01:44.56 | TSchultz55 | nope |
| 01:45.23 | michaelnovakjr_ | od |
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| 01:46.24 | michaelnovakjr_ | anyone play around with gps on android? |
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| 06:54.38 | jota- | Hey, How hard would it be to implement a simple SNMP client with the current SDK? Like a really simple app that would just connect to a router or some other device and get some info from it through SNMP? |
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| 07:38.09 | alex2308 | morning not-iphone dudez |
| 07:39.21 | davidw | damn, they managed to misquote me:-/ |
| 07:39.30 | romainguy | davidw: what did you expect? |
| 07:39.38 | romainguy | worked as a journalist for 5 years :)) |
| 07:40.41 | davidw | well, I did get my Hecl link |
| 07:40.59 | romainguy | you never give up :) |
| 07:42.59 | davidw | does anyone who does ever get anywhere? |
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| 08:38.14 | gambler | romainguy, what percent chance would you estimate that protobuf makes it's way into android? |
| 08:38.34 | alex2308 | what is protobuf |
| 08:38.53 | gambler | alex2308, a msg format for rpc like JSON |
| 08:39.46 | alex2308 | googled it, doenst look very impressive |
| 08:40.29 | gambler | that was some fast analysis |
| 08:40.53 | gambler | I dont think its meant to shake the internets...I just happen to find it useful |
| 08:41.48 | alex2308 | ofc, once you start using it, it might be useful |
| 08:42.01 | alex2308 | i prefer java serialisation or xml |
| 08:42.20 | alex2308 | depending on the needs |
| 08:42.24 | alex2308 | but (imh-fast-look-o) it looks the same |
| 08:42.24 | jota- | so nobody has any idea about how hard would it be to implement SNMP? maybe some of you know if its at least possible to write working UDP apps? |
| 08:42.49 | alex2308 | jota-: i think its possible to write udp apps |
| 08:44.32 | jota- | ok thx, that means its also possible to test them using the emulator right? like I could write at an app that connects to UDP port X and test it using a server listening on port X on my network right? |
| 08:51.22 | alex2308 | jota-: yes, try this http://www.anddev.org/socket_programming-t325.html |
| 08:52.00 | jota- | ok, thx a lot |
| 08:53.13 | alex2308 | youre welcome |
| 09:03.10 | davidw | http://blog.morrildl.net/2008/07/my-obligatory-foo-post.html |
| 09:03.15 | davidw | that's cool |
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| 11:10.49 | alex2308 | thats nerd stuff you geek |
| 11:10.55 | alex2308 | thats not cool |
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| 11:11.58 | Dougie187 | Good morning. |
| 11:14.11 | |Phocion| | hey mornin |
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| 11:18.15 | alex2308 | ho |
| 11:23.46 | *** part/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@c-68-42-59-199.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 11:31.34 | |Phocion| | http://www.talkandroid.com/135-no-android-sdk-updates/ |
| 11:47.17 | alex2308 | there is a typo ("detial" instead of detail) |
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| 12:10.21 | *** join/#android plusminus_ (i=590e01f7@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-ee7adbaedcf1c9a5) |
| 12:11.01 | plusminus_ | hi |
| 12:11.17 | plusminus_ | did you guys already talk about : "Final SDK build available (84853);deadline extended to Tuesday, August 5"-Mails ? |
| 12:11.30 | plusminus_ | was it a mistake? |
| 12:12.42 | *** join/#android plusminus_ (i=590e01f7@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-5879e721c96398c7) |
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| 12:34.13 | anno^da | about what ? |
| 12:34.16 | anno^da | @ plusminus_ |
| 12:35.03 | plusminus_ | the mail all adc-entrants received, which contained this sentence: |
| 12:35.04 | plusminus_ | We're pleased to announce that SDK build 84853 is now available on your private download site. This will be the last build released for ADC Round 2 and is the build that you will need to submit your final application under. |
| 12:35.40 | plusminus_ | It sounds like a mistake to me... |
| 12:35.56 | alex2308 | or intelligent PR |
| 12:36.04 | anno^da | Hmm havent taken part in the ADC |
| 12:36.19 | plusminus_ | ^^ |
| 12:37.20 | plusminus_ | I was like jumping around ... skimming over it... xD |
| 12:37.58 | alex2308 | 46 adc winners are public, right? |
| 12:38.05 | alex2308 | lets hack some account and steal the sdk |
| 12:40.46 | plusminus_ | i'd love to get it legally ;) |
| 12:41.14 | alex2308 | what about Jeffrey.Sharkey@gmail.com, student, american. makes a good victim |
| 12:42.31 | plusminus_ | he got "Scan" doesn't he? |
| 12:42.43 | alex2308 | he has a blog running wordpress, i might get hands on non-public wp exploit |
| 12:42.55 | alex2308 | but ill need someone with md5 rainbow tables |
| 12:42.58 | alex2308 | yes, he does |
| 12:43.46 | plusminus_ | maybe we can send him an barcode that makes his emulator execute code that hacks through to his real device, that submits his sdk to rapidshare... :D |
| 12:44.01 | plusminus_ | "... his desktop machine..." |
| 12:44.23 | alex2308 | no we cant |
| 12:44.35 | alex2308 | because all we have is a pretty outdated alpha of the sdk |
| 12:45.27 | plusminus_ | life sucks |
| 12:45.55 | plusminus_ | especially if you are not a owner of SDK build 84853... |
| 12:46.02 | alex2308 | im working on the wordpress exploit |
| 12:46.10 | alex2308 | just wait |
| 12:46.23 | plusminus_ | ... your choice.. |
| 12:46.43 | alex2308 | its like jailbraking the gphone hahaha |
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| 12:52.52 | zhobbs_ | hah, they still mentioned me in the article: |
| 12:52.52 | zhobbs_ | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/07/14/android_developer_unrest/ |
| 12:54.02 | alex2308 | who is you |
| 12:54.45 | zhobbs_ | zach hobbs |
| 12:55.18 | alex2308 | makes sense |
| 12:55.23 | alex2308 | you got a wordpress blog? |
| 12:55.26 | alex2308 | ^^ |
| 12:55.36 | zhobbs_ | no |
| 12:55.38 | zhobbs_ | helloandroid.com |
| 12:56.03 | plusminus_ | I can google my self and find me on some large technews-sites :D |
| 12:57.28 | zhobbs_ | hey, you worked hard on anddev.org |
| 12:58.14 | alex2308 | you arent far from my favorite winamp radio stream |
| 12:58.28 | alex2308 | @ hobbs |
| 12:58.37 | zhobbs_ | oh yeah? |
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| 12:58.55 | zhobbs_ | how you know where I'm at? :) |
| 12:59.32 | alex2308 | the simplest thing would be a whois on your domain |
| 13:00.07 | plusminus_ | zhobbs thx :) |
| 13:01.15 | zhobbs_ | alex2308: yeah, I guess that works |
| 13:02.00 | alex2308 | ofc it does |
| 13:02.12 | alex2308 | my fav station is in tampa (www.orbitalgroovesradio.com) |
| 13:03.13 | davidw | they screwed up a few things about what I said |
| 13:03.16 | zhobbs_ | that's cool, know lots of people from tampa |
| 13:03.36 | davidw | my brother is moving to florida, I guess |
| 13:04.30 | zhobbs_ | houses are cheap right now, especially if you're paying with euros |
| 13:04.55 | alex2308 | im earning euros ^^ |
| 13:05.15 | alex2308 | but i dont want to move to the staates |
| 13:06.15 | davidw | you probably would have trouble getting in:-/ |
| 13:07.37 | alex2308 | hm, why? |
| 13:09.08 | zhobbs_ | we don't just take anyone! but we'll look the other way if you're interesting in picking oranges for $2.50 / hour |
| 13:09.25 | zhobbs_ | interested* |
| 13:09.50 | alex2308 | im working on my master degree in computer science |
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| 13:15.43 | zhobbs_ | I'm tired of deadline extensions...getting burnt out |
| 13:15.45 | davidw | the US has a lot of bureaucracy regarding immigrants |
| 13:16.12 | plusminus_ | I did my J1-Visa today and it was a farce |
| 13:16.19 | davidw | just like most European countries... you have to have a company hire you before you go |
| 13:16.31 | davidw | how so? |
| 13:16.32 | plusminus_ | Where do you go ? - Maryland, Fraunhofer Center |
| 13:16.40 | plusminus_ | How Long ? - 6 Months |
| 13:16.43 | plusminus_ | Good bye |
| 13:16.46 | plusminus_ | o_O |
| 13:17.01 | davidw | those are the educational ones, right? |
| 13:17.02 | alex2308 | because you have an academic degree |
| 13:17.10 | alex2308 | they kiss your ass for that |
| 13:17.17 | plusminus_ | davidw yes |
| 13:17.21 | davidw | alex2308, well... even then, not necessarily |
| 13:17.22 | plusminus_ | ^^ |
| 13:17.30 | davidw | plusminus_, probably it's that you're going short term |
| 13:17.42 | plusminus_ | non-permanent |
| 13:17.50 | davidw | I remember when they took forever to give Linus Torvalds his green card |
| 13:18.03 | plusminus_ | we had to wait for like 2 hours, just for these two sentences ... |
| 13:18.05 | alex2308 | because he looks like a terorrist |
| 13:18.10 | plusminus_ | :-D |
| 13:18.50 | alex2308 | id rather go to japan or china than usa nowadays |
| 13:19.03 | plusminus_ | http://sandcat.nl/~hugo/fun/20050427-unix.jpg |
| 13:19.14 | davidw | alex2308, don't believe the hype - there are still lots of good things about the US |
| 13:19.18 | plusminus_ | Android is kinda linuxbased too... |
| 13:19.20 | plusminus_ | xD |
| 13:19.23 | zhobbs_ | heh |
| 13:19.41 | davidw | my wife uses Linux too:-) |
| 13:19.59 | alex2308 | davidw: ofc they are, wasnt offending, but imho its enough to go to asia and work in europe |
| 13:20.42 | alex2308 | keep up with the wave. the wave is in asia atm |
| 13:20.52 | alex2308 | if it moves back to the US, go to the US |
| 13:22.24 | zhobbs_ | I don't think I can learn another language...esp not chinese/japanese |
| 13:23.08 | alex2308 | you speak english, that should be enough |
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| 13:30.59 | michaelnovakjr | i'm glad that android developers gave the press yet more fuel to gripe |
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| 13:36.40 | michaelnovakjr | that article was stupid |
| 13:40.55 | zhobbs_ | yeah |
| 13:41.02 | alex2308 | there is no such thing as bad press |
| 13:41.18 | plusminus_ | michaelnovakjr which article? |
| 13:41.23 | zhobbs_ | register |
| 13:41.31 | plusminus_ | hm why? |
| 13:42.55 | zhobbs_ | they should have at least linked to my site when they mentioned me :) |
| 13:43.02 | davidw | they misquoted me about 'upper management' |
| 13:43.10 | davidw | I don't think that's the problem |
| 13:43.27 | plusminus_ | zhobbs :-P i got it this time |
| 13:43.32 | zhobbs_ | hehe, I know! |
| 13:43.36 | davidw | zhobbs, I spelled that part out for the guy pretty clearly:-) (now, that's Hecl dot org, h e c l) |
| 13:44.20 | zhobbs_ | ahh, you got a link too |
| 13:44.43 | alex2308 | and i get no link. neighter is my realnick mentioned. |
| 13:45.15 | plusminus_ | Temporary doubles the users :) |
| 13:45.44 | plusminus_ | my nick is also not named, just my full name... |
| 13:46.15 | alex2308 | thats ok nico |
| 13:46.22 | plusminus_ | pssst !! |
| 13:46.39 | alex2308 | dont you worry, im working for german telekom ag |
| 13:46.44 | alex2308 | :D |
| 13:47.24 | plusminus_ | i should send a mail to the "Bild-Zeitung" ... I think they like to report abotu your work ;) |
| 13:47.46 | plusminus_ | btw I had asked about "Final SDK build available (84853);deadline extended to Tuesday, August 5" and.. |
| 13:47.58 | alex2308 | pssst !! |
| 13:48.02 | plusminus_ | everbody is assuming it was meant to be sent to the finalists only.. |
| 13:48.13 | alex2308 | no, i wasnt |
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| 13:48.18 | plusminus_ | could anyone find a official answer ? |
| 13:48.39 | zhobbs_ | it was meant for the finalists |
| 13:48.42 | alex2308 | i think it was meant to leak, to keep developers working on android instead jumping on the iphone train (which runs pretty fast) |
| 13:48.52 | michaelnovakjr | it was a head hunting article |
| 13:49.26 | michaelnovakjr | i just don't understand that you'd take part in a bashing a platform that you apparently are very excited about |
| 13:49.44 | plusminus_ | zhobbs officially ? |
| 13:49.59 | zhobbs_ | I think the bad press could help expedite the next sdk release |
| 13:50.02 | zhobbs_ | plusminus_: yeah |
| 13:50.08 | michaelnovakjr | i doubt that very much |
| 13:50.08 | plusminus_ | thx |
| 13:50.25 | michaelnovakjr | in fact it'll just keep the google folks from having any real conversations with you |
| 13:50.27 | alex2308 | im bashing android much less than the iphone |
| 13:50.29 | zhobbs_ | plusminus_: he said that he was a victim of autocomplete in his mail app |
| 13:50.49 | plusminus_ | zhobbs :D |
| 13:51.05 | alex2308 | although i do have an htc touch diamond (which might run android) and an iphone 3g |
| 13:51.11 | plusminus_ | michaelnovakjr Why should I lie ? My feelings about the whole sdk situation are far from perfect |
| 13:51.24 | michaelnovakjr | i didn't say lie |
| 13:51.39 | michaelnovakjr | haven't you heard of the saying, if you have nothing nice to say don't say anything at all |
| 13:51.52 | alex2308 | never heard of it |
| 13:52.06 | michaelnovakjr | i don't agree with the nda sdk |
| 13:52.16 | alex2308 | must be a us saying |
| 13:52.24 | michaelnovakjr | but i certainly won't go putting my name on such a statement over at newsweek |
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| 13:52.48 | michaelnovakjr | i think its just a matter of poor taste |
| 13:52.48 | zhobbs_ | michaelnovakjr: that's fine that you don't, but there'd be nothing wrong if you did |
| 13:53.18 | davidw | I actually said a number of positive things to the guy, but of course that's not what he was looking for |
| 13:53.23 | michaelnovakjr | there was nothing good about android said in that article |
| 13:53.32 | michaelnovakjr | davidw :) |
| 13:53.38 | michaelnovakjr | he was head hunting |
| 13:53.54 | michaelnovakjr | he didn't want to talk about android |
| 13:54.03 | michaelnovakjr | he wanted to talk about the problems with android |
| 13:54.10 | michaelnovakjr | probably while writing from his new iphone 3g |
| 13:54.34 | michaelnovakjr | the more you help make android look like chaos the longer i'm sure those iphone lines will get |
| 13:54.39 | alex2308 | well, the last sentence ("The Apple App Store is already open.") is pretty offending |
| 13:54.57 | davidw | it's true, too |
| 13:55.15 | alex2308 | the iphone is indeed nice |
| 13:55.25 | michaelnovakjr | i am certainly not saying it isn;t |
| 13:55.41 | alex2308 | its just that it has to be broken and extremely expensive |
| 13:55.48 | plusminus_ | I think i mentioned that android-dev-team is working harder to get android to the stores instead of making public sdks. |
| 13:55.50 | alex2308 | imho: 2 big no-go's |
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| 13:56.56 | plusminus_ | anyway, I'd prefer at least one or two public sdks before that... |
| 13:57.12 | michaelnovakjr | plusminus_: saying you'd switch to the iphone or windows mobile, is a problem |
| 13:57.31 | michaelnovakjr | consumers reading that are going to get the completely wrong idea about the platform as a whole |
| 13:57.41 | michaelnovakjr | even though its not what you meant |
| 13:57.50 | michaelnovakjr | (atleast i assume :) ) |
| 13:58.02 | alex2308 | he didnt say that, thats another quote (actually mine) |
| 13:58.11 | plusminus_ | i didn'tsay that .. |
| 13:58.18 | plusminus_ | "... reads a mostly intelligible post from one of the many developers voicing th ..." |
| 13:58.23 | plusminus_ | alex2308 :D |
| 13:58.40 | alex2308 | yeah, i was pretty pissed that day |
| 13:59.27 | alex2308 | in fact im daily pissed since i have to work on android |
| 13:59.44 | plusminus_ | maybe visit a psychiatrist ? :D |
| 13:59.58 | plusminus_ | just kiddin ;) |
| 14:00.10 | alex2308 | or vacation |
| 14:00.11 | michaelnovakjr | haha my bad, the guy jumped around a bit |
| 14:00.37 | plusminus_ | yes, I also had to read that part twice |
| 14:00.55 | michaelnovakjr | instead of complaining and crying to the press about android, why not dig deep into some of the sdk where you maybe didn't during the challenge? |
| 14:01.02 | alex2308 | btw, how did you compile your C code to run it on the emulator plusminus_? |
| 14:01.05 | plusminus_ | alex2308: oh yes vacation, 3 weeks without E-SMOG ... i hope i survive that |
| 14:01.09 | michaelnovakjr | write up some tutorials on android concepts |
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| 14:01.14 | plusminus_ | alex2308: I never did that |
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| 14:01.43 | plusminus_ | michaelnovakjr: ... had not muck time in the last weeks |
| 14:01.47 | alex2308 | plusminus_: feels bad at first. then you get used to it. |
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| 14:01.56 | plusminus_ | :D |
| 14:02.10 | michaelnovakjr | i just hate seeing the term android developers tossed around in negative articles |
| 14:02.21 | plusminus_ | now is vacation and after that 7 months maryland (I live in germany) |
| 14:02.25 | plusminus_ | me too |
| 14:02.37 | alex2308 | i know where you live |
| 14:02.38 | plusminus_ | I think a couple of interestign apps would fit the news a lot better |
| 14:02.45 | plusminus_ | g2g ;) |
| 14:02.46 | alex2308 | you are less than 50km from me |
| 14:02.54 | plusminus_ | Darmstadt ? |
| 14:03.01 | plusminus_ | Karlsruhe? |
| 14:03.02 | alex2308 | work in darmstadt, live in frankfurt |
| 14:03.03 | michaelnovakjr | i'm still cracking away at an article |
| 14:03.08 | plusminus_ | gotcha ;) |
| 14:03.12 | michaelnovakjr | application** not article |
| 14:03.20 | davidw | is actually working on the Hecl port of Android right now |
| 14:03.29 | davidw | errr |
| 14:03.31 | davidw | Android port of Hecl |
| 14:03.35 | plusminus_ | been in frakfurt (consulate) today |
| 14:03.37 | michaelnovakjr | my application is closed source until the release of handsets :) |
| 14:03.40 | plusminus_ | .. /afk |
| 14:03.56 | alex2308 | im working on crosscompiled C code for the arm, which im trying to run on the emulator from inside the DVM |
| 14:04.16 | michaelnovakjr | alex2308: using a particular C library? |
| 14:04.33 | alex2308 | atm i would be happy if the simplest possible C code would work |
| 14:05.05 | alex2308 | (int main() { return 0; }) |
| 14:05.26 | michaelnovakjr | you forgot printf( "hello android!" ); |
| 14:05.40 | michaelnovakjr | :) |
| 14:05.43 | alex2308 | i do get a segmentation fault when i run it in android |
| 14:05.53 | michaelnovakjr | what are you compiling with? |
| 14:06.55 | alex2308 | yagarto |
| 14:07.00 | alex2308 | its a windows crosscompiler suite |
| 14:07.12 | michaelnovakjr | hm |
| 14:07.18 | michaelnovakjr | why not use gcc? |
| 14:07.25 | alex2308 | it does use gcc |
| 14:07.54 | michaelnovakjr | are you copying the executable to the emulator shell and trying to run it? |
| 14:08.33 | alex2308 | no, compiling on windows system, moving to emulator and trying to run |
| 14:08.41 | michaelnovakjr | that is what i meant |
| 14:09.06 | michaelnovakjr | that seems interesting |
| 14:10.21 | alex2308 | [1] Segmentation fault ./test |
| 14:11.08 | yakischloba | hmm. that article :/ |
| 14:11.21 | michaelnovakjr | article sucked |
| 14:11.38 | yakischloba | yeah. |
| 14:11.49 | spykid | Basically talking bad about Android and hoping that therefore the SDK will be released sonner is pretty stupid |
| 14:12.24 | yakischloba | yup. I was hoping that wouldn't be the approach but...blah. |
| 14:12.49 | michaelnovakjr | spykid i finally agree with you :) |
| 14:13.08 | spykid | There are so many people out there who hope that Google fails with Android and they hope for such things... |
| 14:14.03 | spykid | It also makes a good headline |
| 14:14.11 | michaelnovakjr | yep |
| 14:14.22 | zhobbs_ | criticism is good, you can't just give a free pass when you disagree |
| 14:14.52 | michaelnovakjr | that is not disagreeing |
| 14:14.57 | michaelnovakjr | that was distasteful |
| 14:15.16 | zhobbs_ | nah |
| 14:15.26 | spykid | Criticism is Ok, but if you give sensation hungry press people what they want and hope to get something in return you are acting like a little child |
| 14:18.40 | dmoffett | Only one thing better than an sdk release. Bacon. Mmmmmm Bacon. |
| 14:21.32 | zhobbs_ | i second that |
| 14:22.02 | michaelnovakjr | definitely |
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| 14:23.53 | alex2308 | but a sdk wont make you fat.. |
| 14:24.40 | zhobbs_ | I dunno, with all this ADC stuff I haven't had time for exercise! |
| 14:24.50 | dmoffett | Contrary to my claims of stopping development on Android I have continued to work away. What is the consensus on how hard it will be upgrade to the latest once the sdk is released? |
| 14:25.15 | michaelnovakjr | dmoffett: no one has really said |
| 14:25.24 | michaelnovakjr | i'm still plugging away |
| 14:26.55 | dmoffett | Can the some of the ADC winners comment on the degree of changes or is that forbidden as well? |
| 14:27.11 | michaelnovakjr | pretty sure thats a no no |
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| 14:31.34 | alex2308 | btw, will there be any group working on a really open android |
| 14:31.55 | michaelnovakjr | what do you mean? |
| 14:31.55 | alex2308 | im pretty sure network providers will create their own version and not all will be as free as mentioned |
| 14:33.05 | anno^da | probably to get Android work on open devices like the FIC Neo Freerunner |
| 14:33.27 | anno^da | but therefore you need the Android source code. So ther wont be developement untill the first devices are released. |
| 14:33.41 | zhobbs_ | I would think we'll be able to undo all the carrier bs |
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| 14:34.15 | michaelnovakjr | i'll certainly be active in providing a free and open way of running android on your device |
| 14:34.38 | anno^da | btw michaelnovakjr squeezecenter works pretty nice :). Having tested the whole setup now for two days and dont need a software player installed here anymore. :) |
| 14:34.56 | michaelnovakjr | nice |
| 14:35.01 | alex2308 | id prefer some more handy devices like the HTC ones. the freerunner is imho way too ugly and big |
| 14:35.23 | anno^da | I'll keep you up to date about the server working together with some real Squeezbox. |
| 14:35.31 | michaelnovakjr | sweet |
| 14:35.42 | michaelnovakjr | alex2308: i'll be quite invested in the HTC versions :) |
| 14:35.57 | anno^da | HTC will be my choice as well |
| 14:36.22 | alex2308 | do you own any htc devices atm? |
| 14:36.51 | michaelnovakjr | i have one |
| 14:38.01 | alex2308 | let me guess, a tytn ii? |
| 14:38.20 | anno^da | No at the moment I'm not owning one |
| 14:38.28 | michaelnovakjr | i have the touch |
| 14:38.34 | michaelnovakjr | as its known in america |
| 14:38.42 | anno^da | but I like the case design if it is not branded by t-mobile or some different carrierer. |
| 14:39.04 | alex2308 | i have the o2 xda diamond (htc touch diamond), but its barely branded |
| 14:39.12 | anno^da | michaelnovakjr: do you know archive.org or ? |
| 14:39.17 | alex2308 | decent design, but wracky OS |
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| 14:40.20 | michaelnovakjr | anno^da: yes |
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| 14:41.11 | anno^da | I've updated my Squeezcenter today to the latest version and it's now supporting archive.org (besides Pandora and a lot of other services) |
| 14:41.33 | anno^da | You can browse through the complete library of archive.org and listen to the concerts. |
| 14:41.33 | michaelnovakjr | nice |
| 14:41.48 | zhobbs_ | romainguy_: you awake yet? |
| 14:42.06 | zhobbs_ | romainguy_: I don't understand View.getTag() as you use it here: http://androidguys.com/2008/07/14/fancy-listviews-part-one/#comment-1374 |
| 14:43.45 | zhobbs_ | like, what if you have multiple image/text views? |
| 14:44.02 | michaelnovakjr | alex2308: i am building my cross compiler now |
| 14:46.11 | alex2308 | which one do you use? |
| 14:46.18 | michaelnovakjr | gcc |
| 14:46.24 | michaelnovakjr | binutils and newlib |
| 14:46.32 | alex2308 | linux environment? |
| 14:46.43 | michaelnovakjr | yeaz |
| 14:47.04 | alex2308 | hm, im on windows atm, but i could switch to linux, that shouldnt be a problem |
| 14:47.19 | michaelnovakjr | figured i would give it a go |
| 14:47.35 | plusminus_ | zhobbs have you been aware of ViewHolder before romainguy's post ? |
| 14:47.36 | alex2308 | its not bad knowing both systems |
| 14:47.54 | michaelnovakjr | nope, i really only use visual studio on windows |
| 14:48.01 | michaelnovakjr | otherwise i am a linux guy |
| 14:48.48 | alex2308 | im a windows guy, but i do have ubuntu on my lap, debian on my server and bsd and gentoo on a second machine |
| 14:49.06 | michaelnovakjr | nice |
| 14:49.17 | alex2308 | nah, chaotic :) |
| 14:49.24 | michaelnovakjr | i use freebsd on most of my servers, my mail server runs redhat |
| 14:49.33 | michaelnovakjr | and i have a windows server system as well |
| 14:49.59 | alex2308 | gentoo is pretty dead, bsd very outdated, ubuntu and debian up and running but i do use win xp and vista mainly |
| 14:50.10 | alex2308 | i love bsd |
| 14:50.24 | jasta | fyi, ViewHolder is not in M5. |
| 14:50.52 | plusminus_ | oh my god, he defines the class 2 lines above |
| 14:51.11 | alex2308 | thought youre gone +- |
| 14:51.17 | jasta | oh, i didn't even look at the post :) |
| 14:51.19 | plusminus_ | im back |
| 14:51.21 | plusminus_ | gas is full |
| 14:51.38 | plusminus_ | 77 € filling fully |
| 14:51.45 | alex2308 | golf 3? |
| 14:52.02 | plusminus_ | fast |
| 14:52.10 | plusminus_ | that is 122.47 $$$$$ |
| 14:52.12 | plusminus_ | o_O |
| 14:52.37 | alex2308 | i changed to vw lupo |
| 14:53.15 | jasta | plusminus_: europeans enjoy gas at just shy of $10 per gallon :) |
| 14:53.36 | plusminus_ | jasta: I hate unformatted text with code included |
| 14:53.40 | alex2308 | its 9.80$ per gallon, not 10 |
| 14:53.41 | plusminus_ | a gallon is... |
| 14:53.54 | plusminus_ | 3.78 |
| 14:53.55 | jasta | alex2308: "just shy of" |
| 14:54.12 | alex2308 | my fault sry |
| 14:54.49 | plusminus_ | that is USD 2,59 per litre o_O |
| 14:55.11 | jasta | google calc can do all this math. |
| 14:55.42 | jasta | it's about 1.50 eur per litre in usd per gallon |
| 14:56.22 | plusminus_ | more like 1.60... |
| 14:56.28 | alex2308 | true |
| 14:56.36 | plusminus_ | I was always thinking that gas is really cheap in the US |
| 14:56.37 | plusminus_ | ... |
| 14:56.57 | jasta | well, that's true. :) |
| 14:56.57 | plusminus_ | once again... |
| 14:56.58 | plusminus_ | life sucs |
| 14:57.02 | alex2308 | its about 50% of the german prices |
| 14:57.02 | plusminus_ | sucks |
| 14:57.25 | jasta | what always floors me is how people complain about the rising prices when it is obvious that they can only do that. |
| 14:57.46 | plusminus_ | wait... |
| 14:57.51 | jasta | a limited fuel in high demand can do nothing but rise in cost. |
| 14:57.54 | spykid | jasta: People are trying to deny what the real problem is... |
| 14:58.05 | plusminus_ | if 1 gallon == 3,78 litres cost 9,80 |
| 14:58.10 | alex2308 | its not limited.. |
| 14:58.20 | plusminus_ | then 1 litre is 2,6 USD |
| 14:58.31 | plusminus_ | * DOLLAR2EURO |
| 14:58.31 | alex2308 | it costs 4,60 usd |
| 14:58.55 | plusminus_ | 1,62 €/l for american gas |
| 14:58.58 | jasta | alex2308: in which sense? Gasoline as we use it now is very difficult to produce (such that it does not offset costs), and new sources are challenging to utilize. |
| 14:58.59 | plusminus_ | ... |
| 14:59.57 | spykid | alex2308: and how would you explain the high prices then...? |
| 15:00.11 | davidw | jasta, well... yes and no... high prices are a big incentive for people to go out there and do their damndest to find new sources of oil, and to utilize marginal sources that otherwise would not be profitable |
| 15:00.14 | alex2308 | jasta: some people are reducing extraction to rise prices |
| 15:00.29 | davidw | ultimately there's some sort of limit, but it's very, very hard to get good ideas about that |
| 15:00.32 | alex2308 | plusminus_: http://www.californiagasprices.com/ |
| 15:00.42 | davidw | gas is cheap in the US though |
| 15:00.46 | jasta | davidw: that's just the economy talking. the high prices reflect the NECESSITY to do so. |
| 15:01.09 | alex2308 | everyone knows gas prices are fake |
| 15:01.16 | alex2308 | its just that everyone still pays |
| 15:01.18 | jasta | i don't believe that for a second. |
| 15:01.31 | davidw | 'fake'? |
| 15:01.51 | davidw | detects a faint odor of tinfoil... |
| 15:02.00 | alex2308 | you know, there are ships standing in the bays, waiting for prices to rise (as they rise daily) before they drop, so there is no leak in gas, its a fake leak |
| 15:02.14 | jasta | again, a limited supply in extremely high demand can only rise in price. until eventually it is no longer a commodity. |
| 15:02.40 | yakischloba | as it should not be. |
| 15:03.21 | yakischloba | Hopefully the result is that millions of people stop thinking that they need to drive a car to work every day and get on a fuckin bike or bus. |
| 15:03.22 | davidw | no reason for it not to be |
| 15:03.34 | alex2308 | i cant bike 50km a day |
| 15:03.38 | davidw | just that the externalities should be included in the price |
| 15:03.53 | yakischloba | alex2308: you can't? then you're really out of shape |
| 15:03.54 | davidw | morrildl, compliments on the FOO camp thing, sounds like a lot of fun! |
| 15:03.54 | spykid | alex2308: why not? :D |
| 15:04.06 | davidw | 50km is a nice ride |
| 15:04.14 | alex2308 | its 50km one way |
| 15:04.14 | yakischloba | 50km is nothing |
| 15:04.35 | yakischloba | so ride 100km per day |
| 15:04.45 | yakischloba | Everyone has their excuse |
| 15:04.55 | alex2308 | and waste 4 hours of my life daily |
| 15:05.03 | yakischloba | Move closer |
| 15:05.07 | yakischloba | Transportation is not sustainable |
| 15:05.08 | davidw | riding a bicycle is *never* a waste of time:-) |
| 15:05.16 | alex2308 | i dont even have a bike |
| 15:05.18 | morrildl | davidw: it was pretty wild |
| 15:05.22 | alex2308 | nigga stole my bike *sing* |
| 15:06.03 | jasta | lives 8 miles from work, and i'd like to shorten that distance |
| 15:06.10 | yakischloba | Lets get in our cars and drive to work because there is _no other option_ |
| 15:06.17 | plusminus_ | alex2308: those prices from your link are per gallon right ? |
| 15:06.25 | jasta | i'd like to get a job in Fremont, *looks around suspiciously* |
| 15:06.31 | alex2308 | plusminus_: right |
| 15:06.46 | yakischloba | hah. I went by the Google building yesterday, looking for the Adobe building. I'd never seen it before. |
| 15:06.48 | plusminus_ | so americans pay about "a bit less than the half" |
| 15:06.51 | davidw | yakischloba, well, the prices keep going up, and people will figure things out, I guess |
| 15:07.04 | jasta | yakischloba: i've never been over there either, actually. |
| 15:07.05 | plusminus_ | I'm going to be cruising all day during my internship :-D |
| 15:07.11 | yakischloba | davidw: No way. Look at these euro guys that pay $10/gal ;) |
| 15:07.12 | jasta | i bet it's small. that area is small. |
| 15:07.14 | alex2308 | well, americans earn a bit less, so its okay |
| 15:07.18 | yakischloba | It is pretty small |
| 15:07.27 | yakischloba | Its very discrete too |
| 15:07.40 | yakischloba | Just at tiny little Google sign. And the Adobe building doesn't even have a sign |
| 15:07.47 | yakischloba | which is why I rode around in circles for 20 minutes |
| 15:09.07 | davidw | alex2308, in terms of purchasing power parity, that's not actually true, except for a few outliers like luxemburg and norway |
| 15:09.38 | alex2308 | how do you compare? |
| 15:09.44 | davidw | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita |
| 15:10.01 | alex2308 | btw, i managed to get C programm cross compiled using sourcery cross compiler, worked like a charm |
| 15:10.18 | michaelnovakjr | alex2308: what arch did you target? |
| 15:11.01 | alex2308 | arm-none-linux-gnueabi-gcc.exe |
| 15:11.24 | plusminus_ | http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arche_Noah |
| 15:11.27 | plusminus_ | :-D |
| 15:11.33 | alex2308 | davidw: it refers to 2007, think it will be different in 2008 |
| 15:12.29 | michaelnovakjr | plusminus_: :) |
| 15:12.40 | davidw | alex2308, a bit, but PPP takes into account actual costs of living, rather than currency differences - remember that a lot of stuff is bought and sold internally in the US in dollars |
| 15:13.41 | alex2308 | i remember that a lot of stuff is bought based on depts hehe (jk) |
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| 15:18.20 | davidw | most of the debts are dollar denominated though, so it's not as bad as it might be were they in currencies that are appreciating against the dollar |
| 15:19.56 | zhobbs_ | davidw: the sorting on wikipedia tables sucks, sorts text based for numerical columns |
| 15:28.54 | romainguy | zhobbs_: like, what if you have multiple image/text views? << that's the point, you store pointers to children views inside the tag of the top level view |
| 15:29.02 | romainguy | it works beautifully with ListView and adapter |
| 15:31.14 | zhobbs_ | romainguy: so the id (string) of the view corresponds to each var in the ViewHolder class? |
| 15:31.26 | romainguy | yes |
| 15:31.31 | romainguy | you can choose different names |
| 15:31.36 | romainguy | but it's an effective way to store them |
| 15:32.02 | romainguy | I don't have the numbers here but on a real device, using this pattern with convertView improves the framerate by a lot |
| 15:32.38 | romainguy | it's something like: 18fps wihouth using convertView, 37 with convertView and 47 with ViewHolder |
| 15:33.37 | zhobbs_ | cool, I'll have to switch over |
| 15:33.58 | romainguy | the final public SDKs should have a document I wrote explaining how to write efficient UIs |
| 15:34.04 | romainguy | it's just a bunch of tricks like this |
| 15:35.05 | zhobbs_ | wonder if it's worth it to use getTag() in some way in you activity to initialize your various UI controls |
| 15:35.42 | romainguy | what do you mean? |
| 15:37.10 | zhobbs_ | well in most of my activities there's a bunch of lines in onCreate() like "mTextView1 = (TextView) findViewById(R.id.tv1);" etc |
| 15:37.57 | romainguy | zhobbs_: that would not do you any good |
| 15:38.07 | romainguy | the purpose of the ViewHolder is to avoid the calls to findViewById |
| 15:38.15 | romainguy | in onCreate you do them only once |
| 15:38.56 | romainguy | anyway, got to run |
| 15:39.00 | zhobbs_ | ok, thanks |
| 15:39.13 | romainguy | with findViewById though, you can call it on children |
| 15:39.16 | romainguy | for instance if your UI has : |
| 15:39.20 | romainguy | LinearLayout(id=a) |
| 15:39.24 | romainguy | TextView(id=b) |
| 15:39.36 | romainguy | instead of calling findViewById(R.id.a) and then with R.id.b |
| 15:39.38 | romainguy | you should do: |
| 15:39.46 | romainguy | ViewGroup a = findViewById(R.id.a); |
| 15:39.53 | romainguy | TextView b = a.findViewById(R.id.b); |
| 15:39.56 | romainguy | much more efficient |
| 15:40.41 | zhobbs_ | gotcha...I'm not even id'ing most of my ViewGroups normally |
| 15:40.53 | zhobbs_ | unless they change in some way |
| 15:41.23 | romainguy | well if you need to find 2 children of a viewgroup, it's worth giving the group an id just to make the search faster |
| 15:41.45 | zhobbs_ | interesting.. |
| 15:41.53 | zhobbs_ | can't wait to see the UI docs |
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| 15:48.25 | jasta | i use that in my project quite extensively |
| 15:48.44 | jasta | finding a root view, then finding within it, i mean. |
| 15:49.42 | jasta | romainguy: is findViewById a recursive lookup or a search? |
| 15:49.48 | jasta | i assumed the latter |
| 15:52.05 | jasta | by that i mean, is the local findViewById O(1) or O(n)? |
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| 16:05.30 | plusminus_ | Regarding the "ViewGroup a = findViewById(R.id.a); TextView b = a.findViewById(R.id.b);"-thing... |
| 16:05.58 | plusminus_ | it only matters when it is executed (usually in onCreate()), right ? |
| 16:06.28 | jasta | it only matters when findViewById is called, wherever that may be. |
| 16:06.50 | jasta | if you're calling it, for example, in your list adapter, then it would matter when the list adapter is being queried |
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| 16:08.14 | plusminus_ | so it is nothing special, just as we always thought...? |
| 16:10.49 | michaelnovakjr | anyway else putts around with C in the emulator |
| 16:11.38 | alex2308 | soon me |
| 16:11.51 | michaelnovakjr | the linux env is cool |
| 16:12.09 | alex2308 | id like to be root, otherwise i feel like a guest ^^ |
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| 16:14.44 | alex2308 | the system is pretty basic though |
| 16:15.03 | alex2308 | they could port some more apps from linux |
| 16:25.28 | alex2308 | is getting a tea and preparing to leave work and head home for some chillout with UT2008 |
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| 16:27.52 | plusminus_ | busybox might help a bit |
| 16:28.49 | michaelnovakjr | busybox... |
| 16:29.26 | plusminus_ | thats why I said ... "a bit" |
| 16:29.59 | plusminus_ | you can tar "/system" and "/data" and go for a marathon untils its done :-D |
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| 16:58.18 | alex2308 | i dont know busyboy |
| 16:58.27 | alex2308 | will google it at home |
| 16:58.34 | alex2308 | or play ut :D |
| 16:58.39 | alex2308 | i guess ut3 wins |
| 16:59.23 | alex2308 | l8er dudez |
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| 18:06.59 | michaelnovakjr | romainguy, around? |
| 18:07.31 | romainguy_ | yes |
| 18:07.56 | michaelnovakjr | the ui is written in java, correct? |
| 18:08.31 | romainguy_ | yes |
| 18:08.36 | romainguy_ | the whole application/UI framework is |
| 18:08.49 | romainguy_ | (and the window manager, etc.) |
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| 18:08.57 | michaelnovakjr | cool |
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| 18:11.49 | plusminus_ | cya guys |
| 18:14.00 | jasta | romainguy: well, the interface portion anyway. |
| 18:14.24 | romainguy_ | the interface portion of what? |
| 18:14.24 | jasta | the "whole" framework is of course written using a combination of Java and other native code (probably C++) |
| 18:14.41 | morrildl | jasta: well |
| 18:14.47 | romainguy_ | there is native code |
| 18:14.47 | morrildl | the *framework* is written in pure Java |
| 18:14.59 | morrildl | drawing and compositing and stuff is written in native code |
| 18:15.10 | romainguy_ | morrildl: even some of the drawing is handled in Java |
| 18:15.14 | michaelnovakjr | ^^ |
| 18:16.50 | jasta | i guess when i think of the framework as a whole, i include its concrete implementation on the Android platform. maybe that's not correct. |
| 18:17.53 | morrildl | jasta: I suppose this is kind of a pointless argument really |
| 18:18.00 | michaelnovakjr | :) |
| 18:18.04 | morrildl | once the source drops, it will become rather obvious |
| 18:18.23 | morrildl | so trying to explain what is and isn't in Java is a little bit like wanking I guess :) |
| 18:19.01 | morrildl | but for now I guess the takeaway is: a lot is written in Java, possibly more than you might expect |
| 18:19.13 | jasta | i doubt more than *i* expect ;) |
| 18:19.22 | morrildl | ha ha, possibly |
| 18:19.32 | jasta | a lot of folks have decompiled the Java parts and have discovered exactly what is not in C :) |
| 18:19.43 | jasta | err what is not in Java* |
| 18:19.53 | jasta | for example, the entire MediaPlayer |
| 18:20.08 | michaelnovakjr | i was curious to see if android is stuck in java |
| 18:20.20 | jasta | michaelnovakjr: stuck? it is heavily bound to it. |
| 18:20.31 | zhobbs_ | jasta: I can't believe you would decompile the java...did you read the terms?!? |
| 18:20.35 | jasta | it would be insane to try to port all that code. |
| 18:20.59 | michaelnovakjr | port... i was thinking more along the lines of support for multiple languages |
| 18:21.02 | jasta | zhobbs_: hehe, seriously? |
| 18:21.26 | jasta | michaelnovakjr: as i said yesterday, the Dalvik layer is the best place to attack that problem, and not java. |
| 18:21.29 | romainguy_ | michaelnovakjr: as long as you code against the Java APIs... :) |
| 18:21.34 | zhobbs_ | jasta: no, not serious |
| 18:21.37 | jasta | and Dalvik is far too mysterious at present to know what to do :) |
| 18:22.00 | jasta | zhobbs_: ok ;0 |
| 18:22.49 | michaelnovakjr | Tests have shown native code runs faster than the vm, no? |
| 18:23.26 | jasta | That's a pretty loaded question, don't you think? |
| 18:23.38 | michaelnovakjr | loaded? |
| 18:24.15 | jasta | I think most of us here understand the real implications of interpreted bytecodes versus native ones, and what can be done to narrow the gap. |
| 18:25.12 | romainguy_ | michaelnovakjr: remember that the VM is still an interpreter and that the GC is very simple |
| 18:25.27 | romainguy_ | just look at what modern VMs on the desktop achieve today vs a few years ago |
| 18:25.30 | jasta | for all we know, Qualcomm and/or Intel are planning a native Dalvik implementation, or at least hooks to improve it. |
| 18:25.52 | romainguy_ | jasta: what do you mean "native Dalvik implementation" ?? |
| 18:26.39 | jasta | i mean a processor which either supports its bytecode natively, or one that simply provides instructions specifically to improve it |
| 18:26.55 | jasta | similar to Jazelle on ARM processors. |
| 18:27.03 | davidw | I was going to write Jazelle |
| 18:27.28 | romainguy_ | I doubt that's gonna happen |
| 18:27.47 | jasta | me too, but i was just demonstrating what's possible. |
| 18:27.54 | michaelnovakjr | my point was if UI stuff's all in java what's the point in attempting scripting languages? |
| 18:28.14 | romainguy_ | michaelnovakjr: you can always have another layer on top of our UI toolkit |
| 18:28.21 | jasta | and qualifying what i meant by "steps that can be taken to narrow the gap" between interpreted and native bytecodes. |
| 18:28.21 | romainguy_ | like Java FX Script does with Swing on Java SE |
| 18:28.33 | michaelnovakjr | true, but it adds another layer |
| 18:28.52 | romainguy_ | michaelnovakjr: that's usually what happens with scripting languages :) |
| 18:28.53 | michaelnovakjr | i don't think there's anything wrong with the java api, just trying to figure out why |
| 18:29.05 | jasta | michaelnovakjr: not necessarily. again, if you attack this problem at the Dalvik layer then you don't necessarily need to wrap the Java API |
| 18:29.19 | romainguy_ | jasta: you still need to code against the Java APIs |
| 18:29.25 | romainguy_ | and therefore have a language that lets you do this |
| 18:29.27 | jasta | yes, but not layer on top of them. |
| 18:29.31 | romainguy_ | sure |
| 18:29.35 | romainguy_ | but take a language like C |
| 18:29.39 | jasta | that's what i meant: you woulnd't need to wrap them |
| 18:29.54 | romainguy_ | it would not be easy to use our Java APIs, even if you have a C to dex compiler/converter |
| 18:30.07 | michaelnovakjr | exactly |
| 18:30.21 | morrildl | you would end up having to build stubs that transform e.g a Java String to a C string |
| 18:30.32 | morrildl | It's doable, but would be a decent chunk of work |
| 18:30.47 | michaelnovakjr | and in turn i am sure a loss of performance |
| 18:30.48 | morrildl | same is true of e.g. Python |
| 18:31.13 | morrildl | michaelnovakjr: maybe. perhaps not as much as you might imagine. Certainly a tight loop over a method that goes through a transformer like that would be painful |
| 18:32.07 | romainguy_ | but it'd be nice to have JRuby, Jython and Groovy (and Scala) :) |
| 18:32.11 | jasta | i am quite certain that someone will port some popular scripting language to Android |
| 18:32.18 | jasta | romainguy_: scala is already there. |
| 18:32.50 | yakischloba | i dont understand whats wrong with java |
| 18:32.59 | yakischloba | i thought java was the shit, and thats why im learning it. no? |
| 18:33.09 | jasta | yakischloba: different strokes :) |
| 18:33.13 | romainguy_ | yakischloba: it's just that many programmers don't like to learn/use other languages ^^ |
| 18:33.17 | romainguy_ | it's just a tool |
| 18:33.19 | jasta | i'm content with using Java on Android, and I think it's a good fit. |
| 18:33.25 | romainguy_ | just like you have to use Objective-C for iPhone dev |
| 18:33.29 | jasta | But I remain confident others will port ;) |
| 18:34.18 | yakischloba | So you guys are saying people will want to write stuff so other languages can use the current framework? |
| 18:34.46 | yakischloba | hmm |
| 18:35.47 | jasta | I believe that will happen, yes. |
| 18:35.57 | jasta | but we can't know for sure until we see the nuts and bolts of android |
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| 18:36.05 | jasta | or at least, we can't know how convenient it would be. |
| 18:36.43 | romainguy_ | there's also the fact that by using other languages you don't get the full benefit of the Eclipse plugin ^^ |
| 18:37.16 | davidw | the difference with the iPhone is, IIRC, you are forbidden from offering an interpreter |
| 18:37.26 | davidw | or some such hogwash |
| 18:37.55 | michaelnovakjr | romainguy: not using eclipse :) |
| 18:37.58 | jasta | romainguy_: you don't get the benefit of the Eclipse plugin either, though ;) |
| 18:38.13 | romainguy_ | I know |
| 18:38.14 | romainguy_ | and it sucks :) |
| 18:38.48 | yakischloba | does just about every use eclipse because of the plugin? |
| 18:39.01 | yakischloba | s/every/everyone |
| 18:39.02 | romainguy_ | also because Eclipse is a very good and free Java IDE |
| 18:39.09 | romainguy_ | I wish there was a NetBeans plugin though |
| 18:39.15 | romainguy_ | and possibly an IntelliJ one |
| 18:39.17 | romainguy_ | or even better |
| 18:39.22 | romainguy_ | a plugin that works with our source tree :)) |
| 18:39.30 | morrildl | davidw: interestingly, that validates the Gadgets model though |
| 18:39.56 | yakischloba | i had never used an IDE before android |
| 18:40.09 | romainguy_ | yakischloba: they do save tons of time |
| 18:40.11 | romainguy_ | anyway lunch |
| 18:40.18 | morrildl | davidw: that's basically what iPhone apps are: Gadgets with a somewhat richer API written in native code. Aside from that the limitations that Apple has placed on apps are very similar to those that Gadgets have |
| 18:41.08 | yakischloba | i like eclipse despite it using a lot of memory |
| 18:41.08 | yakischloba | i need to figure out how to make it look cute2.0 like textmate though |
| 18:41.08 | jasta | i use eclim :) |
| 18:41.33 | morrildl | davidw: Just as, say, Orkut wants to balance third-party apps with their need to retain their own site's identity and remain in primary control of the user experience, Apple is doing the same with the iPhone |
| 18:42.33 | michaelnovakjr | yea |
| 18:42.50 | michaelnovakjr | iPhone development is disappointing |
| 18:43.29 | zhobbs_ | jasta: eclim is pretty neat |
| 18:43.30 | davidw | Apple has always pursued that kind of strategy, which is IMO the reason they never capture too much of the market |
| 18:43.32 | zhobbs_ | never seen that |
| 18:49.31 | morrildl | davidw: I'm not sure they WANT to |
| 18:50.20 | davidw | I think you're right - they're pretty happy doing what they do |
| 18:51.07 | jasta | bbl, lunch |
| 18:52.41 | davidw | have a burrito for me |
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| 18:58.33 | zhobbs_ | romainguy_: no wonder I didn't get the getTag() thing...I missed that you setTag() when creating the view for the first time... |
| 18:59.51 | zhobbs_ | romainguy_: I feel like it improved performance on one adapter though |
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| 19:09.17 | dmoffett | michaelnovakjr: How is iPhone development a disappointment? |
| 19:09.44 | dmoffett | I have been doing quite a bit and just would like to hear some others take. |
| 19:11.02 | AttractiveApe | jasta: the dev just released sd controller support for the Touch |
| 19:11.42 | AttractiveApe | is excited. |
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| 19:53.17 | michaelnovakjr | dmoffett: i think the sdk is great, but the fact you have to be approved is stupid |
| 19:53.40 | dmoffett | pain in the butt for sure. |
| 19:53.58 | dmoffett | I also don't like that I can't load what I want onto my phone. |
| 19:55.12 | dmoffett | Frankly I probably don't understand all the risks to allowing users to load what ever onto a phone but you would think we could be treated like adults. |
| 19:57.29 | michaelnovakjr | yea |
| 19:57.33 | michaelnovakjr | its a pain |
| 19:57.38 | michaelnovakjr | that is why i like android :) |
| 19:57.56 | dmoffett | there is a lot to like if we can get out of the gates. |
| 19:58.17 | michaelnovakjr | yea |
| 19:58.35 | dmoffett | of course if I go down that line of thinking .... |
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| 20:09.09 | jasta | wooo, got back from lunch and i feel really light-headed |
| 20:09.14 | jasta | must be the heat |
| 20:09.44 | jasta | michaelnovakjr: do realize that Android is not new in letting users install whatever they wish. |
| 20:09.55 | jasta | Windows Mobile, for example, employs this strategy. |
| 20:10.02 | jasta | and with no security mechanism whatsoever |
| 20:10.12 | michaelnovakjr | true |
| 20:10.21 | jasta | trusting users is ALWAYS the right choice. |
| 20:10.27 | michaelnovakjr | i don't mind Windows Mobile.... just hate the battery life |
| 20:10.28 | jasta | even if they are stupid and will harm themselves |
| 20:10.39 | dmoffett | and probably anyone else that wants to can install on your device with windows. :-) |
| 20:11.29 | jasta | the only thing inherently new about Android is that it hopes to be more robust in doing all these existing things. |
| 20:11.50 | michaelnovakjr | yes |
| 20:11.55 | jasta | better documented, a stronger community, and open source. |
| 20:12.21 | jasta | all that on top of a more featureful platform. |
| 20:12.52 | michaelnovakjr | why do certain projects not provide the Makefile.in for their project? |
| 20:13.15 | jasta | michaelnovakjr: it must be distributed somehwere, else the project cannot build |
| 20:14.02 | jasta | some devs choose only to include the autogenerated result in their release tarballs, but the main repository will still have all the originals. |
| 20:17.30 | michaelnovakjr | python doesn't |
| 20:20.08 | jasta | well perhaps they aren't use autoconf, then. |
| 20:20.44 | michaelnovakjr | i change some configure.in options and regenerate but it chokes not finding Makefile.in |
| 20:21.08 | AttractiveApe | jasta: do you still have a Five apk around? |
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| 20:27.11 | jasta | AttractiveApe: yes |
| 20:27.30 | jasta | what's up? |
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| 20:30.19 | jasta | ohh, he got the SD card working |
| 20:30.21 | jasta | this guy is brilliant :) |
| 20:36.14 | jasta | teehee, even wrote a new init to make it work off the sd card |
| 20:36.31 | AttractiveApe | can you give me a Five client apk that has the server info already entered? |
| 20:36.33 | AttractiveApe | That dev one you have. |
| 20:37.00 | jasta | i never knew there was such a command as losetup |
| 20:37.08 | AttractiveApe | yeah it's cool, it comes with two 128MB ext3 files for system and data |
| 20:37.10 | jasta | sure, hang on, ill just resend your e-mail |
| 20:37.15 | AttractiveApe | hmmm |
| 20:37.21 | AttractiveApe | I always use mount -o loop |
| 20:37.26 | AttractiveApe | losetup is another step. |
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| 21:13.45 | cutmasta | bye all |
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| 21:54.00 | Dougie187 | good afternoon everyone. |
| 21:57.31 | jasta | hola |
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| 22:08.51 | morrildl | wassup Dougie187 |
| 22:09.39 | Dougie187 | not too much |
| 22:09.41 | Dougie187 | how bout you dan? |
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| 22:13.31 | morrildl | oh, lots |
| 22:13.42 | morrildl | all kinds of fun going on here :) |
| 22:13.55 | Dougie187 | heh thats always good. |
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