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| 00:02.45 | michaelnovakjr_ | howdy |
| 00:03.26 | yakischloba | hi |
| 00:03.46 | michaelnovakjr_ | so writing android software huh? |
| 00:03.59 | yakischloba | haha. you could hardly call it that yet |
| 00:04.21 | yakischloba | i'm just piecing shit together and learning as I go. |
| 00:04.24 | michaelnovakjr_ | :) |
| 00:04.29 | yakischloba | (really sloppy.) |
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| 00:04.50 | michaelnovakjr_ | open source stuff? |
| 00:05.24 | yakischloba | Sure. I figured why not, as soon as my code is not so embarrassing that I can present it :) |
| 00:05.51 | michaelnovakjr_ | :) |
| 00:06.58 | yakischloba | the idea of someone stealing my stuff is silly. I can see why people worry about their code getting heisted when they write some supergenius algorithm or something but...what is anyone going to do with an application like mine? |
| 00:07.22 | yakischloba | i'm happy to share |
| 00:07.23 | michaelnovakjr_ | anything i write for android myself will be open source |
| 00:07.42 | michaelnovakjr_ | i've already got two really simple apps at http://android-random.googlecode.com |
| 00:08.16 | yakischloba | cool |
| 00:12.15 | gambler | what are you using to pitch the packets out - vanilla sockets? |
| 00:12.23 | gambler | for remote logcat |
| 00:12.35 | michaelnovakjr_ | i open a socket stream and write to it |
| 00:12.40 | michaelnovakjr_ | very very simple |
| 00:12.43 | michaelnovakjr_ | does the trick |
| 00:12.56 | michaelnovakjr_ | on the remote machine it looks exactly like adb logcat |
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| 01:29.11 | michaelnovakjr_ | so nice to have new sms usage :) |
| 01:48.56 | Dougie187 | newegg has 1 gig micro sd with mini sd and sd adapters for 4 dollars. |
| 01:48.58 | Dougie187 | well.. 3.99 |
| 01:48.59 | Dougie187 | but still |
| 01:49.05 | Dougie187 | and a 2 gig for 8.19 |
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| 01:49.26 | michaelnovakjr_ | nice |
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| 02:13.38 | michaelnovakjr_ | hey jasta |
| 02:17.08 | jasta_ | hey, im at dinner :) |
| 02:17.43 | michaelnovakjr_ | nice :) |
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| 03:27.45 | michaelnovakjr_ | howdy |
| 03:32.05 | yakischloba | howdy |
| 03:32.14 | michaelnovakjr_ | how's it going? |
| 03:32.33 | yakischloba | good good |
| 03:32.35 | yakischloba | yourself? |
| 03:32.52 | michaelnovakjr_ | not too bad.... taking a break from coding |
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| 03:33.12 | yakischloba | yeah...same here...for the rest of the evening I believe ;) |
| 03:33.37 | michaelnovakjr_ | i'm looking for icons and updating my machine with my music collection |
| 03:36.15 | yakischloba | my CRT destroyed my eyes all day, they're all messed up now |
| 03:36.23 | michaelnovakjr_ | CRT, oh boy |
| 03:36.23 | yakischloba | hopefully my dell arrives by Friday |
| 03:36.30 | yakischloba | 60hz no less |
| 03:36.35 | michaelnovakjr_ | that'll be quite a change |
| 03:37.05 | yakischloba | well, I've spent the last 6 months or so on my macbook, which is small but has a smooth display |
| 03:37.11 | yakischloba | i just pulled my CRT out of the closet yesterday |
| 03:37.16 | yakischloba | and setup a proper workstation |
| 03:37.20 | michaelnovakjr_ | yea, i have a macbook pro |
| 03:37.30 | michaelnovakjr_ | dual booting ubuntu and mac |
| 03:38.13 | yakischloba | I put ubuntu on this desktop. I've never used it before, but I knew it was all the rage so I gave it a shot and I like it, at least for a workstation |
| 03:38.28 | michaelnovakjr_ | yea, its a very nice distro |
| 03:38.37 | michaelnovakjr_ | it runs awesome on macs |
| 03:38.41 | yakischloba | I'm still a slackware goon ;) |
| 03:39.30 | yakischloba | ubuntu, at least by default, is much more lightweight than i suspected though |
| 03:39.32 | yakischloba | i'm quite pleased |
| 03:40.02 | michaelnovakjr_ | yea |
| 03:42.33 | yakischloba | i like os x a lot too. I guess it really doesn't matter though. |
| 03:42.53 | michaelnovakjr_ | yea, i used to do a lot of programming on the mac |
| 03:43.05 | michaelnovakjr_ | i am a big fan of objective-c |
| 03:44.23 | dmoffett | Objective C is a very find language. To bad the syntax freak so many developers out. |
| 03:44.52 | yakischloba | I've been doing it on my laptop and then I stressed at first about having a mac desktop, but then realized it doesn't matter that much |
| 03:45.21 | michaelnovakjr_ | dmoffett: i think once you can wrap your head around the syntax its actually quite elegant |
| 03:45.26 | dmoffett | I saw Brad Cox speak back in the early 90s. |
| 03:45.32 | michaelnovakjr_ | :) |
| 03:45.39 | yakischloba | some people rave to me about C# |
| 03:45.42 | michaelnovakjr_ | i like the concept of objects and messages |
| 03:45.49 | michaelnovakjr_ | C# isn't too bad |
| 03:45.57 | michaelnovakjr_ | for windows its what i prefer |
| 03:47.20 | dmoffett | I have never been able to get my head around windows. |
| 03:48.01 | michaelnovakjr_ | i've done some windows development |
| 03:48.08 | michaelnovakjr_ | windows mobile as well |
| 03:48.22 | michaelnovakjr_ | the freedom of windows mobile is really nice |
| 03:48.23 | dmoffett | We tried to develop a system on windows 3.1. To much brain damage and we switched to NeXT. |
| 04:00.41 | dmoffett | michaelenovakjr: Do you think windows mobile is better than Android for developers? |
| 04:00.54 | michaelnovakjr_ | nope |
| 04:01.11 | michaelnovakjr_ | i feel android is much more pleasant of an environment |
| 04:01.27 | michaelnovakjr_ | not knocking win mobile or anything, but android is much nicer |
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| 04:03.18 | dmoffett | What about users? |
| 04:03.40 | michaelnovakjr_ | android has a simple user interface |
| 04:03.46 | michaelnovakjr_ | win mobile is a bit cluttered |
| 04:35.49 | yakischloba | i hate winmo..just as a user |
| 04:36.02 | michaelnovakjr_ | as a user it can be a pain |
| 04:36.15 | michaelnovakjr_ | the interface isn't very friendly and tries to do too much with little space |
| 04:36.35 | f00f- | as a user? |
| 04:36.38 | f00f- | who else would you be |
| 04:36.44 | michaelnovakjr_ | a developer :) |
| 04:36.46 | yakischloba | i have a winmo phone and use it only for that..a phone. trying to do anything else is an experience so poor its not even worth it |
| 04:37.02 | f00f- | hmm |
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| 06:59.24 | jasta | yakischloba: agreed. except i do use google maps and a news reader |
| 07:00.17 | yakischloba | jasta: yeah. I just couldnt justify 45/mo for google maps and AIM. nor could I at 30 like you pay. |
| 07:00.38 | jasta | i can, i'm rich! :) |
| 07:00.49 | jasta | actually, i just have a poor sense of direction |
| 07:00.53 | yakischloba | yeah. Some of us aren't yet =) |
| 07:00.54 | yakischloba | heh |
| 07:01.11 | jasta | but also, i agree with michaelnovakjr_ that the platform isn't even saved from the developer's perspective |
| 07:01.22 | yakischloba | I have a great sense of direction in the seattle area...I'm finally getting the hang of portland after going there about 10 times. |
| 07:01.24 | jasta | i originally tried to implement Five on Windows Mobile and got so fed up with its shortcomings that i cancelled the project. |
| 07:01.28 | jasta | restarting it on Android was a breeze. |
| 07:01.49 | yakischloba | I never tried to develop for winmo, I just assumed it wasn't worth trying |
| 07:02.01 | yakischloba | based on all the apps I experimented with |
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| 07:02.51 | yakischloba | I'm sure people did the best they could but...everything I've used has really fallen short |
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| 07:03.53 | yakischloba | even simple stuff like dialing numbers and sms is annoying |
| 07:04.00 | yakischloba | its slow and glitchy on my phone anyway |
| 07:04.16 | yakischloba | i type a bunch of stuff and it only catches half of it |
| 07:05.21 | gambler | miguel says blackberry > iphone ...im still on my nokia 6230i until a decent open fone ships |
| 07:06.40 | romainguy___ | has any of you tried the OpenMoko yet? |
| 07:06.47 | yakischloba | negative...I've been keeping up a lot though. Their channel is hoppin almost 24/7 |
| 07:08.02 | gambler | its really bad atm ...3 different sw frameworks all buggy |
| 07:08.27 | gambler | some good ppl left the company due to the disease of bad mgmt |
| 07:08.45 | yakischloba | my understanding is that its still at a very basic functionality, even falling short of what michaelnovakjr and the rest are getting with android on their phones |
| 07:09.31 | gambler | they also hard at work on other non GTA02 projects too according to my sources who work in openmoko |
| 07:10.16 | yakischloba | gambler: you mean to say, new hardware? |
| 07:10.20 | gambler | s/sources/source s/in/at |
| 07:10.31 | gambler | yakischloba, yahhh |
| 07:11.20 | yakischloba | it seems to me like the first two hardwares have been kind of half assed, at least as far as what I'm looking for. Is that their goal, just to pump out new hardware all the time and hope the community stabilizes it? |
| 07:12.13 | gambler | i think there are a few ppl with different ideas there |
| 07:12.27 | yakischloba | not that I'm belittling what it takes to put something like that out |
| 07:13.18 | gambler | it already has been integrated into a GPS device |
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| 07:21.37 | alex2308 | morning |
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| 07:24.09 | gambler | hi alex2308 |
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| 11:20.14 | michaelnovakjr_ | howdy |
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| 12:19.35 | alex2308 | sup |
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| 14:59.53 | michaelnovakjr | howdy |
| 15:04.51 | michaelnovakjr | quiet today |
| 15:05.24 | jasta | yawn |
| 15:05.32 | anno^da | howdy guys :) |
| 15:05.58 | anno^da | Oh it is very silent now I'm trying to code something and that takes a looooong time :) |
| 15:07.09 | SanMehat | morning |
| 15:07.09 | alex2308 | im working on my paper |
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| 15:20.30 | jasta | i saw dark knight last night |
| 15:21.24 | jasta | i liked it, but only because of the joker's character. everything else was exceptionally mediocre. exactly what you expect from the comic book type movies. |
| 15:29.15 | michaelnovakjr | :) |
| 15:30.13 | michaelnovakjr | jasta i tried out a really watered down version of my sms app |
| 15:30.24 | michaelnovakjr | the functionality is really awesome on the vogue |
| 15:38.06 | jasta | i'm very tempted to go get one today ;) |
| 15:38.15 | jasta | i believe if i had one in my hand, i would likely be able to fix five. |
| 15:40.19 | michaelnovakjr | yea |
| 15:40.41 | michaelnovakjr | i've got it so the sms notifications go away when you view the message, and its threaded :) |
| 15:40.58 | michaelnovakjr | interface needs some work, but its actually a very simple application |
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| 15:50.25 | SanMehat | yo jasta |
| 15:57.30 | jasta | yo |
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| 16:02.37 | chab7 | hello |
| 16:02.44 | jasta | hi |
| 16:04.22 | alex2308 | is there any .dex decompiler yet? |
| 16:04.37 | jasta | alex2308: no, the format is not well known. |
| 16:05.03 | alex2308 | it looks like the .class format, but slightly different |
| 16:05.28 | alex2308 | i tried changing some values in order to get jad to work, but it didnt work |
| 16:07.40 | jasta | it probably is only similar by accident. this is much like their binary XML format, which otherwise looks similar to WbXML, but is not. |
| 16:12.55 | alex2308 | might be, i cant tell. as far as i can tell its not the same :p |
| 16:13.19 | jasta | i'm sure it would be trivial to reverse engineer, if you have any experience in that area. |
| 16:13.26 | jasta | just no one seems to have taken a serious crack at it. |
| 16:13.34 | jasta | no one with sufficient skill, that is. |
| 16:14.04 | alex2308 | as far as i know bytecode classes are pretty easy to reverse |
| 16:14.06 | jasta | i reverse engineered the binary XML format quite easily. i don't think google intentionally obfuscated anything, which makes reverse engineering very simple. |
| 16:14.10 | alex2308 | see JAD or Reflector |
| 16:14.28 | jasta | well, JAD didn't reverse engineer anything. The format of class files is documented. |
| 16:15.14 | alex2308 | i mean decompiled |
| 16:15.26 | alex2308 | reflector is a .net decompiler |
| 16:15.29 | jasta | That isn't the same as reverse engineering. |
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| 16:25.51 | michaelnovakjr | jasta, i wrote up a really quick document viewer/editor |
| 16:26.01 | michaelnovakjr | tied it into glance also |
| 16:26.13 | michaelnovakjr | so you can open a file from the context menu in glance |
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| 16:28.34 | jasta | nice, using intents? |
| 16:28.47 | michaelnovakjr | yea |
| 16:28.54 | michaelnovakjr | i just tested it on the device |
| 16:29.16 | michaelnovakjr | i made it a separate program so you can open up a blank and write something from scratch |
| 16:29.29 | michaelnovakjr | but i also tied it into glance to make opening existing files much easier |
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| 16:30.11 | michaelnovakjr | i put a toast message if the file is read-only, so it shows when you open it up |
| 16:30.32 | michaelnovakjr | i have to add in the write support now, but that is really easy |
| 16:31.07 | jasta | do you have the ability to move files around? |
| 16:31.11 | michaelnovakjr | yes |
| 16:31.21 | michaelnovakjr | you can cut and paste files around |
| 16:31.27 | michaelnovakjr | or copy and paste |
| 16:31.31 | jasta | cool, what about grow and remount the underlying system image? :P *jk* |
| 16:31.41 | michaelnovakjr | haha :) |
| 16:32.47 | SanMehat | jasta: sup |
| 16:33.48 | jasta | uhh, hi again :) |
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| 16:34.06 | jasta | the last thing you said to me was "yo jasta" ;) |
| 16:34.31 | anno^da | Someone here ? |
| 16:35.26 | jasta | people are talking. i'm guessing yes, then :) |
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| 16:37.26 | anno^da | I got a question. I have implemented a ImageAdapter for the Grid View. Now I'm consuming pictures from Flickr and showing it in my Grid View through the Adapter. That works quite fine. But is it possible to update the Grid evrytime I go through the getView() method of my Adapter? |
| 16:38.26 | jasta | how do you mean update everytime you go through getView()? |
| 16:38.37 | alex2308 | people tend to leave after the common "someone here" "anyone alive/awake" question |
| 16:38.41 | jasta | getView is just a way for the grid itself to get another square in the grid for it to render. |
| 16:39.05 | SanMehat | jasta: sorry, i'm sick as a dog |
| 16:39.12 | jasta | SanMehat: lame, still working? |
| 16:39.21 | SanMehat | @home today |
| 16:39.29 | jasta | i'm still home now, but heading in. |
| 16:39.38 | jasta | i like working at home the first part of the am |
| 16:39.55 | anno^da | jasta: hmm at the moment the Grid is wating untill every picture is downloaded and then all the pictures appear in the grid at the same time. |
| 16:40.26 | jasta | anno^da: what is actually doing the waiting? you do realize that you are not expected to block the main UI thread, correct? |
| 16:41.15 | jasta | if you are using blocking I/O, you are expected to spawn a separate thread to do the image downloads and communicate them back to your UI thread. |
| 16:41.41 | michaelnovakjr | absolutely ;) |
| 16:41.51 | anno^da | So everything should apper directly if I a Thread would do the downloading stuff ? |
| 16:41.58 | michaelnovakjr | you shouldn't be downloading stuff from a network in the main ui thread |
| 16:42.26 | jasta | that said, getView maybe doesn't do what you think it does. It's just a way to get a View hierarchy for each square. It isn't necessarily a way to map data to widgets. For example, it will only request enough views to be displayed on screen. Not the total number in your list. |
| 16:42.39 | jasta | anno^da: Well, no, but I'm saying you have to redesign your app already :) |
| 16:43.14 | anno^da | Hmm but why I exactly that kind of functionality in the API demos :P |
| 16:43.20 | anno^da | -I + is |
| 16:43.25 | jasta | The only approach that Android currently offers, as I understand, is to refresh the entire view when changes are made. |
| 16:43.31 | jasta | anno^da: You definitely do not find this functionality in the API demos. |
| 16:43.42 | anno^da | hmm Grid view for pictures |
| 16:43.45 | jasta | The API demos are recalling images hardcoded onto the system image. |
| 16:43.50 | anno^da | yeah ok |
| 16:43.52 | jasta | Not from the network. |
| 16:43.52 | michaelnovakjr | yea jasta, you notify the data set has changed and refresh the whole vie |
| 16:43.59 | jasta | That causes your application to be designed quite differently |
| 16:44.05 | jasta | Anyway, look at those demos to figure out how they repopulate. |
| 16:44.24 | jasta | I'm sure they will be simply refreshing the entire grid view. |
| 16:44.44 | jasta | Romain claims somehow magically the overhead is low for this operation. I guess I believe him ;) |
| 16:44.47 | michaelnovakjr | you have to have the downloading thread alert the view when a new file is available so that it can refresh itself |
| 16:45.03 | michaelnovakjr | new *image |
| 16:45.27 | anno^da | Hmm yeah just thought you know that by heart how to refresh the view directly. I knew that I have to do the network stuff somewhere else. |
| 16:45.38 | anno^da | (and yeah I am a noob :D) |
| 16:46.20 | michaelnovakjr | notifyDataSetChanged(); and view.requestLayout(); |
| 16:46.39 | michaelnovakjr | you have to update the data object obviously otherwise the view doesn't see it |
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| 16:50.11 | anno^da | thank you I will export the whole network stuff first |
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| 16:59.40 | muthu | deadlines... |
| 16:59.51 | umdk1d4 | mmm deadlines |
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| 17:00.27 | muthu | umdk1d4: ready to go? |
| 17:00.36 | umdk1d4 | ha lol |
| 17:00.40 | umdk1d4 | getting there ;) |
| 17:00.45 | muthu | great |
| 17:00.53 | umdk1d4 | under a week noww |
| 17:01.00 | muthu | yup |
| 17:01.14 | umdk1d4 | well, exactly 6 days to be exact |
| 17:01.23 | umdk1d4 | 5 days, 58 minutes |
| 17:01.31 | muthu | unless they extend ;) |
| 17:01.35 | umdk1d4 | bah i doubt it |
| 17:01.59 | muthu | lol.. there won't be any submissions then |
| 17:02.03 | michaelnovakjr | i wonder if there will be any interest for this round |
| 17:02.15 | muthu | no interest |
| 17:02.22 | umdk1d4 | no submissions? o.o |
| 17:02.22 | muthu | its kinda boring |
| 17:02.39 | michaelnovakjr | obviously.... no one speaks of it :) |
| 17:02.56 | muthu | now its more secret.. lol |
| 17:03.04 | jasta | yawn |
| 17:03.14 | umdk1d4 | well and we cant exactly show off our stuff right away |
| 17:03.22 | umdk1d4 | stupid nda :P |
| 17:03.33 | muthu | the public sdk might be out soon |
| 17:03.54 | michaelnovakjr | they have been saying that for weeks |
| 17:04.02 | muthu | after the deadlines.. sure |
| 17:04.39 | muthu | adc 2 with real device would be cool |
| 17:04.49 | muthu | not sure how much of interest would be there for adc2 |
| 17:04.53 | michaelnovakjr | not sure i'll participate |
| 17:05.13 | zhobbs_ | I would think more interest |
| 17:05.30 | muthu | that's why its very important for a public sdk |
| 17:05.30 | zhobbs_ | depends on how many devices are out maybe |
| 17:05.41 | zhobbs_ | muthu: there def. will be when the devices come out |
| 17:05.43 | muthu | yup, the devices would bring in new interests |
| 17:05.52 | muthu | agree |
| 17:06.01 | michaelnovakjr | once there are devices i'll be more concerned with being able to use my software than entering in the adb |
| 17:06.11 | michaelnovakjr | adc* |
| 17:06.26 | muthu | adc gives you the platform to launch |
| 17:06.40 | michaelnovakjr | huh? |
| 17:06.44 | muthu | you get noticed |
| 17:06.52 | michaelnovakjr | i am not really concerned about that |
| 17:06.54 | zhobbs_ | or gets your open source project more developers |
| 17:07.03 | michaelnovakjr | if people like the apps then they'll use them |
| 17:07.12 | michaelnovakjr | if not, i still get the benefit of using it :) |
| 17:07.19 | zhobbs_ | i hear you |
| 17:07.29 | muthu | extra money wouldn't hurt ;) |
| 17:07.34 | zhobbs_ | at this point I don't want to think about adc for a while |
| 17:07.40 | michaelnovakjr | muthu, again i don't charge for my apps |
| 17:07.50 | zhobbs_ | michaelnovakjr: he's talking prize money |
| 17:08.03 | michaelnovakjr | oh yes |
| 17:08.20 | michaelnovakjr | it doesn't really interest me |
| 17:08.34 | michaelnovakjr | you start to think of developing differently when there's a money goal |
| 17:08.48 | michaelnovakjr | i feel that could end up hurting more apps than it would help |
| 17:08.48 | muthu | no |
| 17:08.54 | muthu | you think straight |
| 17:09.00 | michaelnovakjr | not necessarily |
| 17:09.15 | muthu | michaelnovakjr: its all the same goal |
| 17:09.15 | zhobbs_ | haha...I just leave comments like: // don't have time to do this right, will fax post adc |
| 17:09.22 | zhobbs_ | s/fax/fix |
| 17:09.26 | muthu | zhobbs_: :)) |
| 17:09.31 | muthu | lol |
| 17:09.47 | muthu | i'm sure everyone's doin it |
| 17:09.49 | umdk1d4 | lol if had $1 for each of those in my code :P |
| 17:10.14 | muthu | //todo: |
| 17:10.15 | michaelnovakjr | i have coded more productively recently than i did during the adb |
| 17:10.18 | michaelnovakjr | adc** |
| 17:10.47 | michaelnovakjr | completely different mindset |
| 17:11.25 | muthu | yeah, but what is productive? |
| 17:11.52 | michaelnovakjr | better code and use of time |
| 17:12.04 | jasta | i cowboy coded most of Five, and i'm not proud of it ;) |
| 17:12.17 | jasta | as of late i have been exploring smaller test cases to validate assumptions I made |
| 17:12.43 | muthu | its been a wild week.. so much of stuff got done |
| 17:12.47 | michaelnovakjr | jasta, don't you think if you were coding that outside of the adc descisions along the way would have been much different? |
| 17:12.48 | jasta | so far, i've found that most of my practices led to unreliable code based on wildly false assumptions ;) |
| 17:13.03 | jasta | i doubt i would have coded it this way at all had i not been focused so intently on the ADC deadline |
| 17:13.20 | michaelnovakjr | same here |
| 17:13.23 | jasta | michaelnovakjr: Oh yes, I have never approached software design in this way before. |
| 17:13.28 | jasta | Not even professionally |
| 17:13.41 | muthu | jasta_: now or for adc |
| 17:13.44 | muthu | ? |
| 17:18.15 | jasta | for the adc. |
| 17:18.28 | jasta | i don't think it was wholly wrong though. it just was very cowboy style. |
| 17:18.38 | jasta | I did get a lot done, though. Having this time now to reflect on best practices is very helpful, though. |
| 17:23.06 | michaelnovakjr | i must say though i am quite pleased hacking away on android now :0 |
| 17:23.21 | michaelnovakjr | its fun when you can actually test apks on a device |
| 17:23.47 | muthu | ha, you are lucky |
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| 17:24.18 | jasta | muthu: he isn't lucky, anyone could go buy the device he's using. |
| 17:24.28 | jasta | i have one i've been tinkering with as well |
| 17:24.38 | jasta | about to go buy my own so i dont have to borrow my co-workers |
| 17:24.48 | michaelnovakjr | yea, there's a few using them |
| 17:24.48 | muthu | did you get it working? |
| 17:24.50 | anno^da | Is it right the the getView methode of this ImageAdapter ( http://code.google.com/android/samples/ApiDemos/src/com/google/android/samples/view/Grid2.html ) gets called all the time? |
| 17:24.53 | michaelnovakjr | jasta have a radioshack by you? |
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| 17:25.17 | michaelnovakjr | i bought mine for 30 bucks through them |
| 17:25.21 | romainguy___ | anno^da: what do you mean "all the time"? |
| 17:25.31 | muthu | anno^da: why does it get called all the time? |
| 17:26.46 | michaelnovakjr | jasta, i was able to modify the timezone file using my app :) |
| 17:27.30 | anno^da | Hmm I'm trying to explain it from my beginner point of view. It is called untill all the pictures sumed up in the mThumbIds are converted so single ImageViews |
| 17:27.48 | michaelnovakjr | anno^da: it is called to draw each gridbox |
| 17:27.58 | anno^da | yeah |
| 17:29.08 | michaelnovakjr | the thread you have should request the layout of the grid, and then your gridview will have the newly added image |
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| 17:31.59 | umdk1d4 | kidnaps michaelnovakjr to get device :P |
| 17:32.19 | umdk1d4 | oh hmm |
| 17:35.21 | michaelnovakjr | umdk1d4: ? |
| 17:36.29 | jasta | michaelnovakjr: how? |
| 17:36.30 | jasta | $30? |
| 17:36.40 | jasta | oh, with a contract? see, i dont want a sprint contract :) |
| 17:36.41 | michaelnovakjr | they have some deal going on |
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| 17:46.14 | jasta | michaelnovakjr: but it is with contract, right? |
| 17:46.23 | jasta | im just going to pick one up and return it in 30 days ;) |
| 17:46.39 | jasta | i want to avoid actually getting sprint service like the plague :) |
| 17:47.14 | michaelnovakjr | :) |
| 17:47.18 | michaelnovakjr | its actually not too bad |
| 17:49.37 | muthu | oh, htc is carried by spring? |
| 17:49.40 | muthu | sprint? |
| 17:50.43 | michaelnovakjr | its carried by verizon too |
| 17:50.47 | michaelnovakjr | in america that is |
| 17:51.00 | muthu | great |
| 17:51.06 | michaelnovakjr | ? |
| 17:51.31 | muthu | oh, only the iphone has a different model.. right? |
| 17:51.44 | michaelnovakjr | huh? |
| 17:52.00 | muthu | locked? |
| 17:53.41 | michaelnovakjr | i have no idea what you are talking about |
| 17:56.54 | muthu | iphone being tied up to a single carrier |
| 17:59.32 | jasta | muthu: manufacturers aren't generally exclusive to a carrier. |
| 17:59.43 | jasta | handsets they make sometimes are, but even then they usually revise them for other carriers |
| 17:59.53 | jasta | the Vogue, in this case, is particular to Sprint in the US |
| 18:00.25 | muthu | ok |
| 18:00.28 | jasta | all US phones are locked, its just that certain carriers are compatible and you can find out how to unlock the devices. Sprint is not that way. |
| 18:00.42 | muthu | oh right |
| 18:00.58 | jasta | but all the carriers have 30 day satisfaction guarantees to avoid early termination feeds |
| 18:01.01 | jasta | im going to abuse that :) |
| 18:01.13 | muthu | haha |
| 18:01.53 | jasta | i'd prefer to get a Vogue permanently (buy it form my co-worker), then just use the 30 day guarantee to get service |
| 18:01.56 | jasta | it's simpler that way |
| 18:02.06 | jasta | but im not sure if i'll be able to pull that off |
| 18:02.14 | jasta | he probably will want $200 or more for it, which i'm not willing to spend. |
| 18:02.28 | jasta | if i "rent" it from Sprint, it'll be about $80 out of pocket for amonth. |
| 18:02.33 | muthu | why can't you wait a bit? |
| 18:02.38 | michaelnovakjr | yea I like the vogue |
| 18:02.50 | michaelnovakjr | i'll be running android on this when it comes out |
| 18:02.51 | jasta | because it's fun to play with it. if i wait until handsets launch it won't be that fun to play with a vogue. |
| 18:03.03 | muthu | agree |
| 18:03.07 | jasta | michaelnovakjr: lol, really? the vogue is a goofy phone. |
| 18:03.14 | jasta | i dont like not having a hardware keyboard. |
| 18:03.18 | michaelnovakjr | android runs nicely on it |
| 18:03.22 | jasta | that's true. |
| 18:03.26 | michaelnovakjr | oh, i don't mind the on screen keyboard |
| 18:03.28 | jasta | android runs smoother than windows mobile hehe |
| 18:03.33 | michaelnovakjr | definitely |
| 18:03.36 | jasta | and it doesnt even have the 3D acceleration enabled |
| 18:03.42 | michaelnovakjr | windows mobile menus and stuff is much smaller |
| 18:03.53 | umdk1d4 | 3d is enabled in the sdk, yes? |
| 18:03.55 | michaelnovakjr | harder to use with touch screen |
| 18:03.58 | jasta | umdk1d4: No. |
| 18:04.14 | jasta | Well, assuming you mean acceleration, no. The emulator is using a software renderer. |
| 18:04.22 | umdk1d4 | seriously?? |
| 18:04.23 | umdk1d4 | wow |
| 18:04.38 | umdk1d4 | mmm i still dont believe it ;P |
| 18:04.52 | michaelnovakjr | read the logcat during boot :) |
| 18:05.45 | muthu | jasta_: what's the best way to show progress for a background task? |
| 18:07.05 | michaelnovakjr | ? |
| 18:07.11 | jasta | muthu: uhh, probably a progress bar? |
| 18:07.17 | jasta | or a title progress bar |
| 18:07.19 | michaelnovakjr | :) |
| 18:07.20 | jasta | or a progress dialog |
| 18:07.25 | jasta | by "best", what exactly do you mean? |
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| 18:08.05 | jasta | umdk1d4: Well, a) they don't package the 3D acceleration library, and b) qemu doesn't support OpenGL acceleration from the host. |
| 18:08.09 | jasta | so, yeah, it's not enbaled. |
| 18:08.10 | michaelnovakjr | i'd say the title progress indicator is a good choice for background |
| 18:08.23 | muthu | michaelnovakjr: good choice |
| 18:08.33 | muthu | yeah, that's the best way |
| 18:08.40 | michaelnovakjr | if something is running in the background it must be for a reason |
| 18:08.56 | michaelnovakjr | so it defeats the purpose to interrupt the main ui thread to let you know what's working |
| 18:09.01 | jasta | muthu: why would you ask a question and then confirm the answer with your own prejudice? did you even intend to ask a question or did you just want to talk? |
| 18:09.05 | michaelnovakjr | something subtle in the title bar should do the trick? |
| 18:09.31 | muthu | jasta_: i wanted to get you started ;) |
| 18:09.58 | michaelnovakjr | muthu, you are definitely an odd fellow |
| 18:09.59 | jasta | ok? |
| 18:10.22 | muthu | jasta_: you know about handlers? |
| 18:10.29 | umdk1d4 | jasta: ah good point, i wasnt sure about what qemu offered |
| 18:10.33 | jasta | umdk1d4: and it's therefore not enabled on the vogue, because a) ... and b) the driver doesn't exist for the vogue :) |
| 18:10.54 | jasta | muthu: as in android.os.Handler? Yes, quite a lot. |
| 18:11.12 | muthu | so can you start a thread from an handler? |
| 18:11.41 | zhobbs_ | sure, probably not using the handler right if you're doing so though |
| 18:11.54 | muthu | zhobbs_: can you start a thread? |
| 18:12.00 | zhobbs_ | I would think so |
| 18:12.16 | zhobbs_ | you won't be in the UI thread anymore |
| 18:12.29 | muthu | yeah, then post back to another handler.. |
| 18:12.56 | muthu | so the question is.. can you start a thread which posts back to a handler from an handler? |
| 18:13.27 | jasta | muthu: what would the advantage to starting a thread from a handler? a handler is used to synchronize against the main UI thread. there is no reason to synchronize thread invocation against the main UI thread. |
| 18:14.02 | jasta | muthu: Uhm, handler's are threadsafe handles. that's the point. They attach to the thread on which they were created and are accessible by any thread to post messages back to the attached thread. |
| 18:14.21 | muthu | right |
| 18:14.36 | zhobbs_ | yeah, like I said, you might be able to do that, but why you'd want to I don't know |
| 18:14.50 | muthu | zhobbs_: you can't |
| 18:14.57 | zhobbs_ | ok |
| 18:15.05 | muthu | it cannot nest like that |
| 18:15.26 | muthu | but there's something called Looper which might do that |
| 18:15.55 | muthu | but looper is for the same thread, i guess |
| 18:16.04 | romainguy___ | there's no need to use the looper |
| 18:16.13 | romainguy___ | but when you create your handle you have to create it on the UI thread |
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| 18:16.31 | michaelnovakjr | muthu, you should read up on handlers :) |
| 18:17.00 | muthu | romainguy_: where's the seperation? |
| 18:17.17 | romainguy___ | what separation? |
| 18:17.30 | muthu | between a main thread, and a ui thread.. |
| 18:17.38 | romainguy___ | the UI thread is the main thrad |
| 18:17.39 | romainguy___ | thread |
| 18:17.41 | romainguy___ | same thing |
| 18:17.47 | umdk1d4 | gahhhhh its wednesday |
| 18:18.03 | muthu | yeah.. so the handler is getting created in the ui thread then |
| 18:18.34 | zhobbs_ | handlers give exceptions when you create them outside the UI thread I think |
| 18:18.50 | romainguy___ | only when you create them from a thread that is not associated with a looper |
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| 18:19.06 | romainguy___ | you can make associate any thread with the looper |
| 18:19.15 | romainguy___ | but it's more work for something you don't need to do in the first place |
| 18:20.09 | muthu | thread ==> handler ==> thread ==> handler is not a problem? |
| 18:20.46 | romainguy___ | no but why would you do that? |
| 18:20.54 | romainguy___ | what is the problem you are trying to solve? |
| 18:20.57 | muthu | it gave me error |
| 18:21.19 | michaelnovakjr | :) |
| 18:21.26 | michaelnovakjr | research |
| 18:21.34 | romainguy___ | what error? |
| 18:21.40 | romainguy___ | what are you trying to achieve? |
| 18:22.19 | muthu | trying to get some background stuff done |
| 18:22.27 | muthu | while the UI is being responsive |
| 18:23.05 | zhobbs_ | when the thread is done with one thing why not have it start the next thing instead of going to the handler and back |
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| 18:23.48 | muthu | no, but i want it this way |
| 18:24.01 | anno^da | jasta and michaelnovakjr thanks for your help I got it now. :-) |
| 18:29.53 | jasta | muthu: why are you trying to force a poor design? |
| 18:30.31 | muthu | i know.. but its fun to try |
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| 18:31.17 | umdk1d4 | hmm question while we are all here |
| 18:31.33 | umdk1d4 | i have an activity that starts, and i start a few processing threads in onCreate() |
| 18:31.46 | umdk1d4 | if those threads immediately begin hard cpu crunching stuff, it will delay the activity showing up |
| 18:31.52 | muthu | yes |
| 18:32.03 | umdk1d4 | however, if they Thread.sleep(500), then view shows up fine, and then the threads continue on their way |
| 18:32.15 | muthu | nice |
| 18:32.31 | umdk1d4 | i was thinking about toying around with onResume() or something |
| 18:32.36 | umdk1d4 | *starting the threads in there |
| 18:32.53 | muthu | onResume might be a good place |
| 18:32.54 | umdk1d4 | to see if i dont have to .sleep(), but still have the view show up right away |
| 18:33.15 | michaelnovakjr | if the user switches apps umdk1d4 what do your threads do? |
| 18:33.29 | muthu | but make sure, you want it that way |
| 18:33.39 | michaelnovakjr | muthu that doesn't make much sense |
| 18:33.41 | umdk1d4 | they are some background fetching processes |
| 18:33.55 | michaelnovakjr | onResume also is called when your app is brought back to the front |
| 18:34.01 | umdk1d4 | if they swtich apps, i suppose letting the threads finish is alright |
| 18:34.04 | umdk1d4 | true |
| 18:34.12 | umdk1d4 | michaelnovakjr: the threads are "smart" and keep a cache of things |
| 18:34.22 | umdk1d4 | so the onResume() second time would be much faster |
| 18:34.47 | michaelnovakjr | i meant if they were already created when you hit onResume().... |
| 18:35.15 | umdk1d4 | well, the method im calling inside each thread is synchronized |
| 18:35.18 | michaelnovakjr | not sure of the outcome, i haven't done it that way |
| 18:35.33 | umdk1d4 | so the second "thread" would block while the first one finishes, then it would find the cache |
| 18:35.35 | michaelnovakjr | its pretty easy to find out :) |
| 18:35.46 | michaelnovakjr | is that what you want |
| 18:35.52 | muthu | if you have it syncd then np |
| 18:36.46 | umdk1d4 | im thinking onResume() will let the GUI thread in onCreate() finish shwoing the activity before starting the threads |
| 18:36.50 | umdk1d4 | ill give it a try tho |
| 18:36.51 | michaelnovakjr | give it a try and watch closely to what the threads are doing, making sure they aren't running more than they have to |
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| 18:51.44 | jasta | umdk1d4: onResume and onCreate are called from the same thread. |
| 18:52.10 | jasta | the entire application lifecycle is managed by the UI thread, which is also the main thread your activity receives. |
| 18:52.11 | umdk1d4 | aww :/ |
| 18:52.20 | umdk1d4 | yea i just played around with that and onStart |
| 18:52.22 | jasta | do note that in any operating environment, 1 thread is always implied. |
| 18:52.27 | jasta | that is the thread you are *GIVEN* to execute on. |
| 18:52.47 | umdk1d4 | is there any reliable way to set priority on newly-created Thread s? |
| 18:52.51 | jasta | it is not different than any other program starting on any other operating system :) |
| 18:52.54 | zhobbs_ | umdk1d4: I've never had any problems starting a new thread in onCreate() |
| 18:53.02 | jasta | you must have at least 1 thread of execution, and it is provided for you. |
| 18:53.12 | umdk1d4 | its like the GUI thread and my background thread begin fighting for CPU |
| 18:53.14 | jasta | umdk1d4: Thread priority on Linux is usually ignored. |
| 18:53.24 | umdk1d4 | which prevents the gui thread from finishing until the background thread is done |
| 18:53.26 | jasta | since the scheduler thinks you are stupid, and it is right. |
| 18:53.31 | umdk1d4 | (yes, im doing threading right ;) |
| 18:54.00 | jasta | umdk1d4: That is called starvation. Break one or both of the threads in a debugger and observe their state. |
| 18:54.06 | jasta | It is likely one is waiting for a lock from the other. |
| 18:54.14 | jasta | (not knowing anything about your design, this is my most likely guess) |
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| 18:54.52 | jasta | also, your thread may be idle looping in a really inefficient fashion, hogging the CPU for itself that wya. |
| 18:56.16 | jasta | also, do realize that you can actually release your background thread from your main thread, to get it to stop doing whatever it's doing. |
| 18:56.28 | jasta | but there is no general strategy for this, as it depends entirely on what your thread is busy doing, and how it is busy doing it. |
| 18:56.49 | jasta | if you can create a small test case, i can certainly help you identify specifically what is wrong. |
| 18:57.09 | umdk1d4 | there arent any locks between them |
| 18:57.18 | umdk1d4 | its just very cpu intensive |
| 18:57.23 | umdk1d4 | good ideas tho |
| 18:57.32 | umdk1d4 | ill play around with breaking it |
| 18:57.34 | jasta | well, then you would want the main thread to halt it. |
| 18:57.56 | jasta | but please, listen to me when i say that you can't always just test concurrency problems to determine correctness. |
| 18:58.31 | jasta | concurrency is a tricky subject, and can lead to some of the most complicated bugs out there. in a simple test if it works as you expect that offers you no guarantee that your code is correct or will behave as you expect in all possible situations. |
| 18:58.52 | jasta | it is a far better strategy to try to understand the problem and attack it precisely, as opposed to tinkering and trial and error. |
| 18:58.59 | romainguy___ | note that java.util.concurrent offers excellent tools to make concurrency code easier and safer |
| 19:00.18 | jasta | umdk1d4: If your thread is busy looping some calculations and is not otherwise blocking on I/O or waiting/sleeping, you will need to dissect your algorithm in such a way that it can be interrupted at certain points. |
| 19:00.49 | jasta | For example, if it's busying doing an MD5 sum, you will need to decompose the MD5 operation to have hooks at various stages to check if the thread has been interrupted and back out gracefully, yielding no result. |
| 19:01.13 | romainguy___ | jasta: yeah that's usually the most annoying part of threading code :) |
| 19:01.14 | jasta | Often the Java language and its supporting libraries do not make this especially easy to do, so your solution can sometimes feel clumsy. |
| 19:01.32 | umdk1d4 | true true |
| 19:01.58 | jasta | But it is the only correct way to behave in this case. You don't want a terminated thread to just keep pounding the CPU and wasting resources when you no you don't care what result it will eventually have. |
| 19:02.27 | jasta | and by terminated I mean simply that you know you're done with it, and wish it to die. Not that it has been terminated by the operating system, which is a much different story. |
| 19:02.44 | jasta | The operating system actually does exactly as I'm describing. It breaks apart programs and adds hooks to check with the scheduler to allow other programs the chance to run. |
| 19:02.56 | jasta | And as a result, it can easily and abruptly kill any process or thread that it wants. |
| 19:03.20 | jasta | So only small sets of instructions execute in between this scheduling check. |
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| 19:03.40 | jasta | But you have to balance the efficiency of the check against the algorithm and the likelihood that this interrupt case will occur. |
| 19:04.00 | jasta | For example, you don't want to interleave a check for termination after every instruction, as this would radically degrade performance for the common case. |
| 19:04.34 | jasta | None of this applies if your thread is gracefully sleeping, waiting, or blocking on I/O though. Those cases are far simpler to terminate, as again the platform aids you. |
| 19:05.09 | umdk1d4 | hmm |
| 19:05.12 | jasta | The latter case is something I have been researching in depth, and have arrived at a satisfactory solution. |
| 19:08.14 | jasta | romainguy___: If you are curious, by the way, the latest HttpClient does in fact utilize Java 1.4 functionality in such a way that allows you to gracefully break out of a blocking connect, read, or write. The one distributed with Android M5 has a simple omission which prevents backing out of a blocking connect, however. |
| 19:08.34 | romainguy___ | what is this functionality? |
| 19:08.38 | jasta | I would be happy to code up a "best practices" example of this and offer it to the team for inclusion in the next SDK release. |
| 19:09.10 | jasta | romainguy___: Previously, the socket API composed the connect operation such that the socket creation and platform connect call were executed in the same function. |
| 19:09.28 | jasta | And there was no way to run code in between the two, given the socket fd but where the connect call blocks |
| 19:09.31 | jasta | for example... |
| 19:09.32 | jasta | int fd = socket(...); |
| 19:09.36 | jasta | connect(fd, ...); |
| 19:09.50 | romainguy___ | ah yes I see |
| 19:09.51 | jasta | if the connect call blocked, the fd was not exposed in any way through Java's API, and so you couldn't simply close it. |
| 19:10.05 | jasta | But in java 1.4, they fixed this, separating the two calls allowing you the chance to abort a blocking connec tby closing the socket. |
| 19:10.17 | romainguy___ | good to know |
| 19:10.28 | muthu | http://groups.google.com/group/android-freeware |
| 19:10.33 | jasta | HttpClient 4 alpha 4 takes advantage of this ability, allowing you the chance to close the socket which on Linux, Windows, and OS X, will interrupt the blocking connect. |
| 19:10.38 | jasta | Also, it will interrupt a blocking read, write, etc. |
| 19:11.21 | jasta | It is platform-specific, though, it just so happens that every platform does the Right Thing (TM) in this case. That is, if the socket being blocked is closed somehow, the blocking I/O call will abruprtly terminate. |
| 19:11.56 | jasta | I am certain that it is reliably behaviour on any POSIX host, which Android of course satisfies ;) This behaviour is defined by POSIX (through BSD sockets), in fact. |
| 19:12.42 | jasta | The process for doing this with HttpClient is simple. Just call method.abort(); from another thread and it will simply close the socket, releasing any threads blocking on I/O from that socket. |
| 19:13.46 | jasta | It is an especially clean way to release resources from a background download thread. It will also work if you implement the application layer yourself as well (layered on top of the Socket class). |
| 19:13.51 | jasta | or for any other library that does this. |
| 19:14.03 | jasta | The basic approach is simple: close the socket, not the input or outputstream. |
| 19:14.49 | jasta | There are some nuances, of course, and you need to carefully consider the state of your thread at initialization and termination to avoid jittery corner cases, but I believe my example does that correctly. |
| 19:15.17 | michaelnovakjr | muthu, what about it? |
| 19:15.29 | muthu | that's yours? |
| 19:15.33 | michaelnovakjr | nope |
| 19:15.43 | michaelnovakjr | http://android-random.googlecode.com |
| 19:16.35 | muthu | cuil |
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| 19:16.54 | muthu | jasta_: write a book on threads |
| 19:17.05 | muthu | even the java apis are not sure about them |
| 19:17.10 | jasta_ | why? many good ones are already written |
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| 19:17.17 | muthu | threads in android |
| 19:17.25 | jasta_ | the java apis remain vague for portability. |
| 19:17.41 | jasta_ | with android, we have the luxury of assuming a posix host, linux. |
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| 19:18.22 | jasta_ | and this is fortunate, as linux is especially sensible in this area :) |
| 19:19.12 | michaelnovakjr | threads are not that difficult in android |
| 19:21.18 | jasta_ | agreed, but its never a good idea to apply hubris to concurrent problems. |
| 19:22.20 | jasta_ | they are often nuanced and when you do screw up can be unbelievably painful to fix. |
| 19:22.28 | jasta_ | they can be* |
| 19:23.33 | michaelnovakjr | definitely, its hard to fix a problem that can have a different behavior each time :) |
| 19:23.43 | umdk1d4 | mmmm posix |
| 19:24.04 | umdk1d4 | posix, part of a balanced breakfast ^.^ |
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| 19:25.12 | jasta_ | adamently defends posix as one of the few great blessings of the software engineering world :) |
| 19:25.32 | michaelnovakjr | :) agreed |
| 19:28.20 | michaelnovakjr | boy, glance and the newly dubbed scribble are really helpful :) |
| 19:28.32 | jasta | i bet. i can't wait to get a device :) |
| 19:29.08 | michaelnovakjr | in /etc/ppp there's files for the connection |
| 19:29.24 | michaelnovakjr | they got reset and messed up.... i can fix them from the device now :) |
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| 19:30.04 | jasta | nice, i may finally go ahead and make a real terminal :) |
| 19:30.32 | michaelnovakjr | :) |
| 19:30.34 | jasta | and by real i mean it will allocate a pt. |
| 19:30.35 | jasta | pty* |
| 19:31.54 | michaelnovakjr | sweet |
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| 19:49.00 | jasta | i never did figure out quite what /system/bin/ioctl expected, so i'll just write a JNI layer |
| 19:49.15 | jasta | also, using /system/bin/ioctl to allocate a pty would have been very clumsy :) |
| 19:53.15 | jasta | michaelnovakjr: btw, martin claims that he's having trouble getting my older binder driver working in his build. |
| 19:53.20 | jasta | Not sure what's going on with that. |
| 19:53.30 | jasta | he hasn't responded to my latest e-mail |
| 19:53.42 | michaelnovakjr | hm, i had a few questions for him too |
| 19:53.48 | jasta | ? |
| 19:54.13 | michaelnovakjr | for one the timezone file in /data/timezone gets rewritten every boot to say GMT |
| 19:54.24 | michaelnovakjr | there's got to be a way to set your timezone |
| 19:54.30 | jasta | it probably is being written by Google's init. |
| 19:54.40 | michaelnovakjr | it shouldn't be hard seeing the clock works |
| 19:54.54 | jasta | it might be very hard, if google has hardcoded it in their init :) |
| 19:54.56 | jasta | let me check actually |
| 19:56.16 | jasta | well, it doesn't seem to directly. |
| 19:56.24 | jasta | no easy way to tell if some other process does, though |
| 19:56.37 | jasta | is /data/timezone even being observed anywhere? |
| 19:57.04 | jasta | or is it just a way to determine what timezone was set at boot? |
| 19:57.37 | michaelnovakjr | i think the latter |
| 19:57.56 | michaelnovakjr | it seems to write the timezone to file and not do anything with it |
| 19:58.01 | jasta | yeah, probably, so writing to it is pointless |
| 19:58.07 | michaelnovakjr | yea |
| 19:58.46 | michaelnovakjr | it'd be nice to know where that's being done :) |
| 19:59.39 | michaelnovakjr | on the emulator mine is EST |
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| 19:59.48 | michaelnovakjr | so its obviously something google does |
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| 20:11.59 | jasta | michaelnovakjr: this is gonna be a waste of time to try to figure out :) |
| 20:12.02 | jasta | its all closed source hehe |
| 20:12.20 | michaelnovakjr | yep :) |
| 20:13.14 | romainguy___ | or be patient :) |
| 20:14.56 | jasta | romain is just no fun ;) |
| 20:15.00 | jasta | no sense of adventure hehe |
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| 20:17.26 | michaelnovakjr | romainguy__ we could go join the bunch crying foul and complaining all day instead |
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| 20:21.38 | jasta | hey, i'm still in that group. |
| 20:21.51 | jasta | i've just been slapped by the futility of it all a little bit :) |
| 20:22.09 | jasta | they really seem not to be moved by what i say ;) |
| 20:22.19 | michaelnovakjr | :) |
| 20:22.30 | michaelnovakjr | i stay busy to keep away from the negative energy flow |
| 20:22.41 | jasta | yeah, a good idea. |
| 20:23.02 | jasta | i'm anxiously awaiting the next SDK so i can plow through my code and redesign a few things. |
| 20:23.18 | jasta | i figure the best time to do it is when the project's state is crippled by a changed API anyway |
| 20:23.52 | michaelnovakjr | yea |
| 20:23.56 | michaelnovakjr | definitely |
| 20:24.43 | sayers | How much of the api are they changing anywho ? |
| 20:24.59 | michaelnovakjr | not publicly known |
| 20:25.48 | jasta | sayers: i would not eb surprised to find it is quite significant. i'm sure the core concepts will sitll be there, but lots of stuff will shift around. |
| 20:26.06 | sayers | for the better I assume. |
| 20:26.15 | jasta | that's just based on my experience of how things like this tend to go. when they get a license to relaly fuck with the API, they do :) |
| 20:26.17 | sayers | Obviously |
| 20:26.31 | jasta | they being developers |
| 20:26.51 | michaelnovakjr | :) |
| 20:27.03 | romainguy___ | sayers: you can expect the change to be equivalent to M3 -> M5 |
| 20:27.09 | romainguy___ | in terms of % of API changes |
| 20:27.11 | sayers | I wasn't here then :) |
| 20:27.30 | romainguy___ | I don't have the exact number but it should be something like 30+% |
| 20:28.23 | michaelnovakjr | that i see is a good thing |
| 20:28.27 | michaelnovakjr | improving :) |
| 20:28.27 | sayers | that'll be fun |
| 20:28.39 | michaelnovakjr | yea, but i'm sure it'll be worth it |
| 20:29.08 | romainguy___ | the UI won't change like it did from M3 to M5 though |
| 20:29.27 | michaelnovakjr | i like the m5 UI |
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| 20:31.24 | romainguy___ | well we made many changes |
| 20:33.20 | jasta | i actually have some big problems with the M5 UI, but i suspect they will make it into 1.0 :( |
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| 20:33.58 | jasta | but i have a narrow view of the platform as a whole, so i'm uncertain how it will fit in with other applications google is writing. |
| 20:34.04 | ttuttle | #include <stddisclaimer.h> |
| 20:34.06 | ttuttle | jasta: What are the problems? |
| 20:34.09 | jasta | i'm very anxious to see what sort of UI guidelines we get handed down from the google apps |
| 20:34.23 | jasta | ttuttle: well, the notification tray for example i think is very clumsy |
| 20:34.30 | ttuttle | jasta: Awww, I like it ;-) |
| 20:34.32 | jasta | its strange how you have to "draw" it down when it otherwise doesn't resemble a tray |
| 20:34.42 | ttuttle | jasta: eh. |
| 20:34.42 | jasta | and the layout seems crude once inside of it. it's too general. |
| 20:35.03 | ttuttle | jasta: Well, it's supposed to be general, as it can hold any sort of notification ;-) |
| 20:35.07 | michaelnovakjr | on a device though its really smooth |
| 20:35.24 | jasta | michaelnovakjr: it animates fluidly, but it doesn't make it any more logical or useful. |
| 20:35.24 | ttuttle | michaelnovakjr: Do you have one? |
| 20:35.46 | jasta | i feel it's just awkward, but as i sadi we'll have to see how google makes use of it. |
| 20:35.52 | michaelnovakjr | well, jasta it does organize multiple notifications well |
| 20:36.06 | jasta | also, the notification area seems particular and sepcialized, so it is hard for example to think of a way to integrate for applications that don't strictly follow the prompted notification |
| 20:36.30 | michaelnovakjr | i use the notification manager with my sms application |
| 20:36.31 | jasta | like my music player. i want an icon to let the user know its running/playing/downloading, and let them tap something up there to get back to the playback screen |
| 20:36.34 | AttractiveApe | michaelnovakjr: how's your sms app/ |
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| 20:36.41 | jasta | but the notification area is not that. it feels all wrong to do it that wya. |
| 20:36.50 | michaelnovakjr | its coming along AttractiveApe |
| 20:36.56 | michaelnovakjr | it doesn't interrupt you |
| 20:36.58 | AttractiveApe | is Glance finished? |
| 20:37.07 | michaelnovakjr | yes :) its a version 0.0.1 |
| 20:37.15 | jasta | also it'll be interesting to see how built-in applications work together to make the experience work well. |
| 20:37.22 | michaelnovakjr | true |
| 20:37.32 | michaelnovakjr | AttractiveApe: i just wrote a quick little app called Scribble |
| 20:37.50 | jasta | one thing i've always wanted to see that i think google can do well is something like an sms coming in saying "sure, dinner at 7?" and letting you translate that to a calendar event/notification. |
| 20:37.52 | michaelnovakjr | its a notepad like app that lets you write files |
| 20:38.55 | michaelnovakjr | jasta, that would be nice |
| 20:39.20 | michaelnovakjr | i steered clear of calendar apps because i'm sure google will have a nice calendar/email/docs/sms system |
| 20:40.08 | jasta | as i said, im jut not sure how it will come togehter. we all have a very limited scope here. |
| 20:40.16 | jasta | really hard to see what google has built so far. |
| 20:40.25 | jasta | but im excited to get handed down some UI best practices finally |
| 20:40.33 | jasta | that has been a constant struggle with android development |
| 20:40.33 | michaelnovakjr | yea |
| 20:40.52 | michaelnovakjr | i'd like to think my apps aren't too far off |
| 20:41.09 | jasta | probably will be hehe |
| 20:41.11 | jasta | who knows ;) |
| 20:41.19 | michaelnovakjr | :) |
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| 20:43.44 | jasta | even at I/O they only showed us freaking pac man :) |
| 20:43.51 | michaelnovakjr | :) |
| 20:44.00 | michaelnovakjr | i have plans to make a simple game |
| 20:44.11 | jasta | i am going to make a solitaire engine if no one else does |
| 20:44.11 | SanMehat | jasta: were you at I/O? |
| 20:44.11 | michaelnovakjr | haven't done one at all so it should be fun :) |
| 20:44.12 | ttuttle | jasta: But it's Pacman! =D |
| 20:44.14 | jasta | i like klondike |
| 20:44.15 | jasta | SanMehat: yes. |
| 20:44.21 | SanMehat | jasta: you should have come and said hey |
| 20:44.26 | jasta | we've been over this ;) |
| 20:44.37 | SanMehat | shut up i'm sick and on cold medicine :( |
| 20:44.40 | jasta | i sat in on the fireside chat and couldn't quite figure out how i knew your name |
| 20:44.51 | jasta | only after i left did it connect hehe |
| 20:45.05 | SanMehat | lol |
| 20:45.13 | jasta | actually, i was reading a news recap of the event the next day and noticed "from left to right: ..., San Mehat, ..." |
| 20:45.21 | jasta | and was like "ohhhhh.." :) |
| 20:45.44 | davidw | oh... that's a name I know... I used to have a netwinder |
| 20:45.51 | jasta | i wish i would have figured it out much sooner. was heat there too? |
| 20:46.09 | SanMehat | davidw: yeah thats my baby... or was |
| 20:46.22 | SanMehat | jasta: he wasn't at the event |
| 20:46.25 | SanMehat | but he was around |
| 20:46.26 | davidw | it was pretty cool, I learned a lot from it |
| 20:46.33 | SanMehat | davidw: so did I.. :) |
| 20:47.00 | davidw | "THE developer of ARM Linux" |
| 20:47.01 | jasta | SanMehat: i would've liked to meet him too. i was hanging out with another friend from giFT... |
| 20:47.13 | SanMehat | hahaha |
| 20:47.19 | jasta | SanMehat: he's occassionally in here as pawalls, used to be malverian, if you recognize any of those names :) |
| 20:47.23 | SanMehat | that was RMK |
| 20:47.50 | davidw | yeah, then there was the guy "THE author of NUMEROUS perl scripts" |
| 20:47.57 | SanMehat | oh yeah... zac |
| 20:47.58 | SanMehat | hahaha |
| 20:49.14 | jasta | SanMehat: fyi, i might be up in the bay area in october... |
| 20:49.20 | michaelnovakjr | AttractiveApe: i wrote Scribble into Glance too... so if you pull the context menu up on a file you can open it in Scribble |
| 20:49.26 | SanMehat | jasta: cool, look me up. |
| 20:49.33 | SanMehat | but warning, i'm getting married in october. |
| 20:49.36 | SanMehat | so i might be busy |
| 20:49.53 | SanMehat | /s/might/will |
| 20:49.57 | jasta | nice :) |
| 20:50.33 | SanMehat | :) |
| 20:50.38 | jasta | excited or nervous? :) |
| 20:50.52 | AttractiveApe | michaelnovakjr: cool, I'll have to grab that android update and put glance in it :P |
| 20:50.57 | SanMehat | It's all good |
| 20:51.03 | jasta | i mostly have avoided marriage because it seems like a lot of owrk and i'm super lazy |
| 20:51.28 | jasta | my gf is basically my personal assistant. she pays all my bills, takes care of traffic tickets and other beauracratic business :) |
| 20:51.42 | SanMehat | hahaha |
| 20:52.13 | jasta | i'm not joking. i really can't manage anything on my own. |
| 20:52.22 | jasta | i once had a warrant out for my arrest for 3 months becuase i hate reading my mail |
| 20:52.26 | zhobbs_ | jasta: same here, my gf thinks I'm a little kid |
| 20:52.35 | zhobbs_ | probably for good reason, cause I always pay late, etc |
| 20:52.37 | jasta | i missed a court date i never bothered to write on my calendar, and then let the warrant go because i never opened the letter informing me |
| 20:52.54 | SanMehat | wow, you guys actually *need* Android to *survive*... |
| 20:52.55 | jasta | that was before my girlfriend hehe. life's better now ;) |
| 20:53.24 | SanMehat | otherwise your lives will devolve into a crazy disorganized catastrophy :) |
| 20:56.22 | michaelnovakjr | AttractiveApe: i committed the Glance update but didn't put the apk on the downloads page. Scribble i have one more thing i want to do to it then I'll post that too |
| 20:56.48 | michaelnovakjr | AttractiveApe: and of course, still plugging away at the SMS app, I have the threaded bit working :) |
| 20:58.30 | AttractiveApe | michaelnovakjr: cool cool |
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| 21:12.29 | anno^da | michaelnovakjr: What would you like to drin? :D |
| 21:12.34 | anno^da | drink |
| 21:12.41 | michaelnovakjr | ? |
| 21:12.49 | anno^da | I'm so happy now having a working micro app |
| 21:12.49 | anno^da | :D |
| 21:13.38 | michaelnovakjr | what app? |
| 21:14.07 | anno^da | downloading the images in a background thread and getting the images popping up in the grid view one after the other |
| 21:14.20 | anno^da | (haha yeah nothing special but for me it is :D) |
| 21:14.41 | michaelnovakjr | cool |
| 21:15.50 | anno^da | with that mini app I have learnt a lot about Views, my own Adapter, Message Handling, Threads and http work and consuming and converting of images via http |
| 21:16.23 | michaelnovakjr | that's good stuff |
| 21:18.01 | anno^da | How is the turning wheel called? (the progress widget) |
| 21:19.37 | michaelnovakjr | ? |
| 21:19.51 | anno^da | forget it :D |
| 21:19.59 | anno^da | (I'm too tired now :) ) |
| 21:34.37 | michaelnovakjr | AttractiveApe: when i get home i'll be adding those two apk's to the download page |
| 21:34.44 | michaelnovakjr | Glance and Scribble that is :) |
| 21:34.51 | AttractiveApe | Cool. |
| 21:35.03 | AttractiveApe | I finished what I've broken today. |
| 21:35.06 | AttractiveApe | feels proud. |
| 21:35.12 | michaelnovakjr | I'll let you know when its up.... probably in about two hours |
| 21:35.15 | AttractiveApe | Better yet, I fixed what I broke ;) |
| 21:35.19 | michaelnovakjr | :) |
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| 22:28.50 | jasta | romainguy___: do you know how to interpret this: |
| 22:29.18 | jasta | E/AndroidRuntime( 605): Uncaught handler: thread Thread-7 exiting due to uncaught exception |
| 22:29.22 | jasta | E/AndroidRuntime( 605): java.lang.NoSuchMethodError: <init> |
| 22:29.24 | jasta | E/AndroidRuntime( 605): at org.devtcg.demo.cancelhttpget.StoppableDownloadThread.getClient(StoppableDownloadThread.java:66) |
| 22:29.38 | jasta | that line is: |
| 22:29.38 | romainguy___ | somehow you're calling a constructor that doesn't exist? |
| 22:29.41 | jasta | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:29.41 | jasta | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:30.39 | jasta | romainguy___: how could it compile but then not exist at runtime? mustn't that be a dalvik or aapt bug? |
| 22:30.52 | duey | different versions of the api? |
| 22:30.53 | jasta | i'm including newer httpclient/httpcore jars... |
| 22:31.04 | jasta | to override the ones bundled with android. |
| 22:31.26 | romainguy___ | I guess dalvik resolves the Android HttpClient first |
| 22:31.27 | jasta | SingleClientConnManager is in a different package space in my bundled jars. |
| 22:31.49 | jasta | romainguy___: well, i'm not so sure about that... |
| 22:31.53 | jasta | because the lines above it are: |
| 22:31.57 | jasta | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:31.57 | jasta | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:31.57 | jasta | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:32.06 | jasta | SchemeRegistry and Scheme are also both in different package scopes. |
| 22:32.35 | jasta | in Android's HttpClient, they are in org.apache.http.conn.* |
| 22:32.46 | jasta | in alpha4, as i've included, they are in org.apache.http.conn.scheme.*; |
| 22:33.05 | romainguy___ | then I don't know :) |
| 22:33.07 | jasta | so it should also be croaking there too, then? |
| 22:33.22 | jasta | experiments. this must somehow be a bug, though. |
| 22:35.39 | duey | clean? |
| 22:36.05 | jasta | duey: i doubt that, i tried on two different machines :) |
| 22:36.13 | duey | ah ok |
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| 22:58.44 | jasta_ | hmm, weird. def looks like a bug. if i work around that class i can get it to kind of work. |
| 22:58.51 | jasta_ | but it seems to mix classes at runtime? |
| 22:59.12 | jasta_ | im gonna work out a way to sign one of the classes and figure out what its doing. |
| 23:18.36 | jasta_ | lame, work party... |
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| 23:35.50 | michaelnovakjr_ | howdy folks |
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