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| 00:27.28 | SanMehat | evening |
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| 01:21.58 | yakischloba | michaelnovakjr: i got my monitor its dope |
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| 01:46.28 | michaelnovakjr_ | yakischloba: sweet@ |
| 01:46.30 | michaelnovakjr_ | ! |
| 01:46.35 | yakischloba | yeah I love it |
| 01:46.39 | yakischloba | eclipse and docs side by side |
| 01:46.47 | yakischloba | hella wide |
| 01:47.03 | gambler | multimon? |
| 01:47.10 | yakischloba | no just one..just bigger than before |
| 01:47.16 | yakischloba | going from my 13" laptop screen to 22" |
| 01:47.27 | gambler | try multimon...its sick what it does for your productivity |
| 01:47.36 | yakischloba | ohhhhh that thing |
| 01:47.36 | gambler | im on a 3 mon setup |
| 01:48.10 | mickrobk | nice, i want to get a 3rd monitor, but im out of desk space :( |
| 01:48.26 | yakischloba | my dad was a day trader for a couple years, he had 8x 21" monitors |
| 01:48.46 | mickrobk | wow |
| 01:49.00 | yakischloba | yeah CRT's too, this was like 6 or 7 years ago |
| 01:49.19 | yakischloba | the desk was nuts |
| 01:49.23 | yakischloba | he made me put it together |
| 01:49.29 | yakischloba | took me an entire day |
| 01:49.34 | yakischloba | weighed like 500 lbs |
| 01:49.37 | gambler | im also a recovering gambler/trader |
| 01:49.40 | mickrobk | i bet |
| 01:49.56 | mickrobk | those monitors must have weighed a ton |
| 01:50.13 | yakischloba | 70lbs a piece I think |
| 01:50.39 | michaelnovakjr_ | damn |
| 01:50.57 | yakischloba | the main center part had 3 on top and 3 on the bottom, and then there was a platform on a swinging arm on either side for the other two |
| 01:51.15 | yakischloba | he has a picture of it somewhere, it was pretty nuts |
| 01:51.32 | yakischloba | I was like 14 at the time so I would have my friends over and put porn videos on all 8 of them |
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| 01:51.45 | yakischloba | gambler: yeah needless to say that didn't work out well for him ;) |
| 01:52.52 | gambler | its a tough business. Im still in it somewhat |
| 01:53.43 | yakischloba | hmm. its in my blood, I've been toying with the idea of trying it out. He only did that for 3 years or so, but he was a bond broker for 20 years or so before that. |
| 01:54.30 | gambler | its easier for young people than older people to handle the variance |
| 01:55.29 | yakischloba | yeah. I think he was very successful earlier in his life. |
| 01:56.18 | gambler | he still alive? |
| 01:56.31 | yakischloba | yeah barely ;) |
| 01:56.58 | yakischloba | hes only 58. The stress of that business destroyed him...He brought a lot of it on himself though. |
| 01:57.23 | gambler | thats part of the cost of the business...the aspect i dont like |
| 01:58.32 | yakischloba | some people handle it better than others though, for sure. I occasionally run into his old business colleagues, and most of them seem fine. |
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| 02:00.19 | gambler | you can be in this business and be nearly totally unconscious for your entire career and do well. |
| 02:00.32 | gambler | you can also be a near genius and do poorly. |
| 02:00.38 | gambler | just the nature of the game |
| 02:01.18 | yakischloba | thats what keeps me away from it..Don't want to end up like he is now. |
| 02:01.45 | gambler | it can be hard to relate to people you know too who arent in the game. how do you tell your friend your in a bad mood because that morning you lost the equivalent of his salary for the next 10 years |
| 02:02.06 | gambler | some of those guys, they probably just playing with someone elses cash, working for institutional players |
| 02:02.37 | gambler | its easier/more fun that way fo sho |
| 02:03.03 | yakischloba | heh. yeah my bedroom used to be next to the room he traded in. I woke up many times to curses at 5am. |
| 02:04.08 | yakischloba | he would down screwdrivers while I ate my cereal and got ready for school |
| 02:04.34 | yakischloba | I could see myself ending up just like that |
| 02:05.06 | gambler | funny coincidence, a friend of mine just started whining to me on MSN right now about a position that went sour |
| 02:05.10 | gambler | lol |
| 02:05.15 | yakischloba | heh |
| 02:06.13 | jasta | yawn |
| 02:06.51 | yakischloba | jasta: how many hours did it take you to get home? the traffic was fucking horrible even not on the freeway |
| 02:07.00 | jasta | yeah it was bad |
| 02:07.02 | jasta | like an hour |
| 02:07.06 | jasta | maybe a little less |
| 02:07.54 | jasta | hmm, i dont think planetandroid.com syndication is working right |
| 02:08.00 | jasta | i posted a blog entry at lunch today and it still isnt there |
| 02:08.39 | jasta | oh, stupid blogger |
| 02:08.43 | jasta | tagged the date when i created the draft |
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| 02:30.59 | jasta | michaelnovakjr_: lets stop versioning the apk filenames |
| 02:31.02 | jasta | just version them in the summary. |
| 02:31.08 | jasta | stupid android can't handle it well. |
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| 02:38.05 | jasta | yakischloba: i took 99N btw. |
| 02:38.10 | jasta | thanks for the suggestion, jerk ;) |
| 02:38.23 | jasta | it was stop and go until queen anne hehe |
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| 02:47.24 | michaelnovakjr_ | jasta, good idea :) |
| 02:48.58 | michaelnovakjr_ | i had to remount my data image just to delete the apk because of the versioning |
| 02:52.19 | f00f- | jasta: it certainly is a competitor to google maps/transit. hard for us since google has so much clout and can get deals with transit agencies directly for data. |
| 02:52.57 | f00f- | but we're working multiple angles, growing our data set organically and slowly |
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| 03:54.20 | yakischloba_ | jasta: I don't drive, so listening to my traffic avoidance advice is a bad idea :) |
| 03:54.43 | jasta | hehe |
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| 04:08.21 | jasta | hello romain |
| 04:08.37 | romainguy_ | oi |
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| 04:19.33 | jasta | the quality of my android code has improved significantly as a result of all these stupid mini-apps ive been building lately :) |
| 04:20.36 | sayers | jasta: =D , my tip calculator after learning all the cool effects looked a lot more native. |
| 04:20.42 | sayers | however nothing compared to your code ;P |
| 04:21.17 | yakischloba_ | tip calculator :) |
| 04:21.22 | jasta | i have a new pattern when i'm using Handler for robust message passing. |
| 04:21.43 | sayers | yakischloba_: Took 40 minutes to write and was fun :) |
| 04:21.45 | jasta | tip calculation is so easy :) |
| 04:21.50 | sayers | yeah I know :D |
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| 04:22.07 | sayers | I can't come up with any good project ideas that are managable |
| 04:22.18 | sayers | My game is coming along though, so I should be back on android in 2 weeks tops |
| 04:22.22 | jasta | sayers: remove the 3 last words and then try anyway. |
| 04:22.49 | yakischloba_ | jasta: thats what I did :) |
| 04:23.03 | sayers | jasta: I know how that works :) |
| 04:23.03 | jasta | by the way, i also had to learn Java for Android development. i would reasonably expect quite a few others are in that boat as well. |
| 04:23.33 | sayers | jasta: I've read through a bit of Mythical man month, two weeks is realistic |
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| 04:23.58 | sayers | i've got the movement, and floor and buildings down, I just have to add scoring and make it have colors |
| 04:24.23 | sayers | I really think two weeks is 4 times the amount of time needed :-) |
| 04:24.37 | sayers | but * 4 gives you something realistic |
| 04:25.14 | jasta | if you get bored, i've always wanted a good Solitaire suite on my phone :) |
| 04:25.19 | sayers | Anyone good night android-developers |
| 04:25.22 | jasta | with Freecell at least. |
| 04:25.27 | yakischloba_ | lol |
| 04:25.31 | sayers | jasta: I don't like 2d games with logic :p |
| 04:25.35 | jasta | and a clean UI for touch screens. |
| 04:26.13 | sayers | jasta: quick run down on the game I'm making : "You are a sphere who rolls around, knocks down buildings and collects coins on top of said buildings to get points" |
| 04:26.42 | sayers | but night all |
| 04:27.52 | jasta | katamari damacy? |
| 04:27.53 | jasta | ;) |
| 04:28.07 | jasta | a katamari damacy game for android would be great, actually ;) |
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| 05:37.59 | jasta | yawn |
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| 06:27.02 | jasta | hmm |
| 06:27.12 | yakischloba_ | ? |
| 06:28.44 | jasta | just kinda sleepy |
| 06:28.50 | jasta | bought some new speakers online |
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| 06:30.34 | yakischloba_ | i'm enjoying my new monitor |
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| 06:53.51 | jasta | Good, I suppose :) |
| 06:54.39 | jasta | grooves to a new Airborne Toxic Event song |
| 06:55.07 | jasta | basically i love them. i'm so excited for their album release |
| 07:00.15 | jasta | o/~ We'd scratch and turn and say let's burn these sheets down to the seams...like gasoline o/~ |
| 07:00.44 | jasta | Tuesday, even. It's coming up fast :) |
| 07:01.09 | jasta | It will quite probably be the best debut album ever. Better even than The Cinematics - Strange Education |
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| 09:04.38 | al2308 | moin |
| 09:09.25 | umdk1d3 | niom |
| 09:11.50 | f00f- | sup umdk |
| 09:11.51 | f00f- | how goes it |
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| 09:27.29 | tric | hi |
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| 09:44.31 | umdk1d3 | hey wheres muthu |
| 09:48.23 | f00f- | no clue |
| 09:53.14 | anno^da_ | Someone here ? |
| 09:53.40 | anno^da_ | What is the easiest way to come from the InpuStream to a JSON object |
| 09:53.51 | anno^da_ | I know that the InputStream is a JSON object |
| 09:56.13 | gambler | you mean from inputstream to a java object? |
| 09:58.17 | anno^da_ | yeah right. |
| 09:58.25 | anno^da_ | From the InputStream to the JSONObject |
| 09:59.28 | anno^da_ | the entity looks like the following in the response: http://img.skitch.com/20080801-bnskk7fuyawam3hsijwukt6t6p.jpg |
| 10:00.39 | gambler | are you trying to get out a java object of a JSONObject? Because a JSON object AFAIK is just a string of text. |
| 10:00.47 | gambler | s/of a/or a |
| 10:01.29 | anno^da_ | ah well no. I've done a HTTP Post to a server and got a response with the JSON object included |
| 10:02.04 | anno^da_ | Now I've done the following |
| 10:02.33 | gambler | The JSONObject class in android has a parser to turn it into a non java object collection of name value pairs ..Is that what you want? |
| 10:02.43 | gambler | Its in the JSONObject constructor |
| 10:03.24 | anno^da_ | hmm I just want to get the JSON part out of the HTTP Response. |
| 10:03.58 | anno^da_ | and turned into the JSONObject |
| 10:04.15 | anno^da_ | to be able to parse the content inside the JSON object |
| 10:05.07 | anno^da_ | from my point of view I have to convert the content of the InputStream to a String |
| 10:05.25 | anno^da_ | and then create a JSONObject with the (String ..) constructor |
| 10:05.32 | gambler | yep? |
| 10:06.52 | gambler | it sounds like you've figured it out |
| 10:06.54 | anno^da_ | from my point of view I have to convert the content of the InputStream to a String <- and thats my problem. I remembered sth like a Stream Reader. |
| 10:07.26 | anno^da_ | well I'm looking around a bit cant be that difficult :> |
| 10:07.40 | anno^da_ | I'm coming back if I'm too stupid to get it working :) |
| 10:08.11 | umdk1d3 | ive used simplejson in android |
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| 10:08.32 | umdk1d3 | JSONValue.parse() iirc and feed in a string |
| 10:09.24 | umdk1d3 | oh yea just read everything off the socket into a string |
| 10:09.36 | umdk1d3 | theres plenty of code like that floating around |
| 10:10.02 | anno^da_ | yeah I#m searching :) |
| 10:10.03 | umdk1d3 | might be easier to just use a byte[] buffer instead of wrapping in a new BufferedReader object |
| 10:10.13 | umdk1d3 | lemme pastebin some code brb |
| 10:11.26 | umdk1d3 | oh wait lol i havent written that yet |
| 10:12.10 | anno^da_ | :) |
| 10:12.22 | anno^da_ | thank you very much. |
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| 10:23.11 | anno^da_ | well I've done it :) |
| 10:23.17 | anno^da_ | and it works quite nice |
| 10:59.10 | tric | im starting an activity from a service using startActivity(Intent); using an intent with extra data added. the activity is started, but is there any way to access the extra data? |
| 10:59.39 | tric | access the extra data during or after activity startup |
| 11:15.07 | anno^da_ | accessing the data inside the started Activity ? |
| 11:15.17 | tric | exactly |
| 11:15.42 | anno^da_ | Just do Bundle extras = getIntent().getExtras(); |
| 11:16.14 | anno^da_ | after that you have the data added inside the bundle |
| 11:16.24 | tric | ah, thanks, i was missing the getIntent(9 ;) |
| 11:16.32 | anno^da_ | :) np |
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| 11:55.45 | meredydd | Hey - I'm having issues with an AIDL definition with the Eclipse plugin |
| 11:56.01 | meredydd | The java class isn't being autogenerated |
| 11:56.38 | meredydd | I must be missing something - what else is there to do, apart from creating the .aidl file in my source folder? |
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| 12:04.36 | tric | meredydd: are you using only primitive and string/map or your other classes aswell? |
| 12:05.39 | meredydd | tric: I managed to find and run 'aidl' myself - I'd missed an 'in' declaration. |
| 12:06.04 | meredydd | For some reason, the error wasn't showing in the GUI, but when I fixed it everything Just Worked(tm) |
| 12:06.13 | tric | yeah, the plugin is missing to print errors somewhere |
| 12:06.27 | tric | same with emu startup. |
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| 12:30.12 | anno^da_ | whats the easiest method to get the actual date ? |
| 12:32.38 | zhobbs_ | Calendar.getInstance() |
| 12:33.14 | anno^da_ | thanks |
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| 12:55.31 | EQU | hello |
| 12:56.27 | EQU | any body here :) ? |
| 13:01.41 | anno^da_ | yeah |
| 13:04.31 | EQU | I have problem with drawable defined by xml - files |
| 13:04.34 | EQU | file* |
| 13:04.45 | EQU | wait a moment |
| 13:05.42 | EQU | http://rafb.net/p/I7Ewp424.html |
| 13:05.51 | EQU | this is a xml file |
| 13:06.19 | EQU | i use this drawable ( layer-lis ) as a selector in list view |
| 13:06.53 | EQU | but tags : android:width android:height doesn't work |
| 13:07.49 | EQU | item "side_arrow01" is stretched to bottom and right edges of parent view |
| 13:08.16 | anno^da_ | hmm sorry I cant help you in that case |
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| 15:10.46 | anno^da_ | Could someone tell me sth about the DateFormat class ? |
| 15:10.59 | anno^da_ | I want to achieve the following format: |
| 15:11.15 | anno^da_ | 2007-12-01 14:50:02 |
| 15:11.22 | jasta | so then achieve it. |
| 15:11.31 | jasta | :) |
| 15:11.45 | muthu | there's a pattern you can pass |
| 15:11.57 | anno^da_ | yyyy-MM-dd h:.... |
| 15:12.06 | SanMehat | jasta: don't be a douche |
| 15:12.14 | muthu | then call format method |
| 15:12.18 | SanMehat | :) |
| 15:12.21 | anno^da_ | I know that |
| 15:12.42 | anno^da_ | but |
| 15:12.46 | anno^da_ | what does that mean: |
| 15:12.47 | anno^da_ | m -> 7 |
| 15:12.47 | anno^da_ | mm -> 07 |
| 15:12.47 | anno^da_ | mmm -> 007 |
| 15:12.47 | anno^da_ | mmmm -> 0007 |
| 15:13.43 | jasta | anno^da_: It refers to padding the string with zeroes. |
| 15:14.49 | jasta | SanMehat: Don't question my methods. :) |
| 15:15.04 | SanMehat | Don't make me go over there :) |
| 15:15.24 | jasta | anno^da_: Read the javadoc for SimpleDateFormat. If you still can't figure it out, read it again. |
| 15:16.03 | anno^da_ | I will do. SanMehat I can understand jasta :) |
| 15:16.15 | jasta | SanMehat: Too much hand-holding in the Java community. I'm happy to employ a #C-style pedagogical approach :) |
| 15:16.57 | anno^da_ | :-D |
| 15:17.10 | SanMehat | i can dig that |
| 15:20.08 | jasta | anno^da_: FWIW, The SimpleDateFormat patterns are ambiguous and poorly designed. |
| 15:21.28 | jasta | strftime, for example, is quite a bit better :\ |
| 15:23.59 | michaelnovakjr | SimpleDateFormat is relatively easy to work with |
| 15:24.12 | gambler | is anyone using a publish/subscribe type pattern/msging system? |
| 15:24.14 | michaelnovakjr | the patterns are easy too |
| 15:31.31 | jasta | gambler: can you be more specific? |
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| 15:32.56 | gambler | jasta, for network comms. alot of libs out there, hard to know whats good. |
| 15:33.29 | jasta | I'm not familiar with what you mean I guess. |
| 15:34.04 | gambler | its like an Instant messaging system, but a bus instead of a 2 way communication |
| 15:34.13 | gambler | you publish info to the bus |
| 15:34.23 | gambler | subscribers listen to the content they are interested in |
| 15:34.45 | jasta | as a form of IPC? Or for communicating with external devices? |
| 15:36.02 | gambler | RPC / external comms... its a semi r&d topic |
| 15:36.20 | gambler | how to use it for RPC would be interesting |
| 15:36.43 | gambler | the easiest way to think about it is writing an msn client |
| 15:36.59 | gambler | then realising what PITA it is to make it a party line |
| 15:39.32 | gambler | meh the whole concept of RPC / network comms on android is an open questio to me |
| 15:39.42 | jasta | how so? |
| 15:40.16 | gambler | well i like really lean binary protocols like zeroC ice |
| 15:40.23 | gambler | which is what im doing stuff with now |
| 15:40.32 | gambler | but afaik there is nothing like that in android |
| 15:41.02 | jasta | The only implied layer that Android provides is GTalk, which is said to be undergoing a major optimization. |
| 15:41.22 | jasta | Other than that, what in particular about Android enforces an application-layer protocol? |
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| 15:41.46 | jasta | I'm sure HTTP will be a popular way to do things, possibly even with SOAP, but Android isn't responsible for those decisions. |
| 15:42.01 | gambler | right... im just talking to the future... |
| 15:42.20 | jasta | I doubt very much that Google will provide some sort of new general-purpose application-layer protocol to use on Android. |
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| 15:42.29 | jasta | Except of course, GTalk. |
| 15:42.31 | gambler | if I use Ice now and then new Gtalk is all good well... |
| 15:42.42 | gambler | rite |
| 15:43.04 | michaelnovakjr | i like gtalk |
| 15:43.17 | jasta | My application uses a combination of SyncML (encoded as WbXML) and RESTful HTTP requests |
| 15:43.33 | michaelnovakjr | google will certainly have nice gtalk integration in android...... i hope :) |
| 15:44.35 | jasta | Google also recently released/announced Protocol Buffers, which may make an appearance in Android. |
| 15:44.44 | gambler | exactly |
| 15:44.53 | gambler | thats what im using ...protobuf on ice |
| 15:45.04 | anno^da_ | I'm getting mad with the DateFormat. Using String formatString = "yyyy-MM-dd HH:mm:ss"; results in 2008-08-01 which is ok, but the time: HH:44:31 but it should be 17 instead of HH :). I found that in the java docs and capital H should trigger the 24h hours time |
| 15:45.07 | michaelnovakjr | i have a feeling network communications will see a significant upgrade in the next SDK |
| 15:45.09 | gambler | and they are very nice |
| 15:45.53 | jasta | anno^da_: Do you mean SimpleDateFormat or...? |
| 15:47.12 | anno^da_ | oh my god forget it :( |
| 15:47.36 | michaelnovakjr | SimpleDateFormat is what you should use anno^da_ |
| 15:47.36 | anno^da_ | I've used the DateFormat the whole time :) |
| 15:47.37 | anno^da_ | yeah |
| 15:47.38 | anno^da_ | :P |
| 15:47.44 | jasta | I told you earlier to use SimpleDateFormat. |
| 15:47.45 | anno^da_ | slap me :) |
| 15:47.57 | anno^da_ | Yeah I read in the SimpleDateFormat docs |
| 15:48.02 | michaelnovakjr | SimpleDateFormat dateFormat = new SimpleDateFormat( "yyyy-MM-dd HH:mm:ss" ); |
| 15:48.03 | anno^da_ | but used the DateFormat in code :) |
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| 16:08.26 | anno^da_ | But thank you guys again everything is working now and the fun level is rising :) . |
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| 16:21.56 | michaelnovakjr | :) |
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| 16:32.34 | chab7 | hi |
| 16:33.06 | SrSilveira | hi chab7 |
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| 18:07.38 | jasta | morning romain |
| 18:08.03 | romainguy_ | oi |
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| 19:10.46 | michaelnovakjr | sup jasta |
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| 19:36.55 | jasta | michaelnovakjr: sup |
| 19:37.01 | jasta | michaelnovakjr: started fiddling with some of your code :) |
| 19:37.07 | michaelnovakjr | oh yea? which one? |
| 19:37.08 | jasta | got me all excited to go buy a device on monday |
| 19:38.05 | michaelnovakjr | which code jasta? |
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| 19:44.04 | jasta | all the android-random stuffs |
| 19:44.04 | jasta | pretty significant code base now :) |
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| 19:44.42 | jasta | michaelnovakjr: Btw, I posted my simple HttpClient example to devtcg.org if you're curious. I implemented it in HttpDownloader recently as well. |
| 19:44.56 | michaelnovakjr | ah cool |
| 19:44.58 | jasta | i think it's a good general strategy we should use for this type of I/O in our projects. |
| 19:45.09 | michaelnovakjr | i'll definitely check that out |
| 19:45.25 | michaelnovakjr | the Messages apk is still quite a work in progress |
| 19:45.36 | michaelnovakjr | I have a lot of UI work I want to do still |
| 19:45.50 | michaelnovakjr | but functionally you can send and receive text messages in a pretty decent way |
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| 19:56.23 | jasta | would love to meet hackbod sometime |
| 19:56.46 | jasta | she seems like a fascinating enigma |
| 19:56.55 | romainguy__ | why an enigma? |
| 19:58.00 | jasta | Well, for the obvious reasons projecting my own inherent sexism ;) |
| 19:58.22 | SanMehat | nice. |
| 19:58.51 | michaelnovakjr | there used to be a girl that came in here, and said she was a guy so people wouldn't treat her different ;0 |
| 19:58.55 | michaelnovakjr | really weird |
| 19:59.26 | jasta | My experiences have not constructed a flattering view of women in engineering, that's all. I'd like the opportunity to meet some counter-examples. |
| 20:00.04 | jasta | Also, systems-level engineering is interesting to me, and so I welcome the opporutnity to converse with anyone working in that area. |
| 20:00.39 | jasta | But the enigmatic nature is, unfortunately, her gender. |
| 20:01.34 | jasta | However, with a name like Hackborn I don't see how you could avoid systems-level work :) |
| 20:01.45 | michaelnovakjr | :0 |
| 20:05.23 | jasta | I feel like Romain is judging me |
| 20:05.25 | jasta | :) |
| 20:05.35 | michaelnovakjr | jasta, taken a look at the messages app? |
| 20:05.43 | jasta | I haven't fired it up. |
| 20:06.03 | michaelnovakjr | its crude looking..... but functions nicely |
| 20:06.09 | jasta | I will though. |
| 20:06.10 | michaelnovakjr | still working on the UI |
| 20:06.20 | michaelnovakjr | i like the autocomplete :) |
| 20:06.23 | jasta | I am gonna buy the Vogue on Monday ;) |
| 20:06.26 | michaelnovakjr | nice |
| 20:06.35 | michaelnovakjr | autocomplete is really a nice feature |
| 20:07.15 | jasta | I am surprised by the lack of available software to install onto the device. |
| 20:07.25 | jasta | Lots of ADC participants seem not to have published their software. |
| 20:07.38 | michaelnovakjr | yea |
| 20:08.04 | jasta | not even simple games really |
| 20:08.15 | jasta | There are some, but not many. |
| 20:08.15 | yakischloba | build it up! |
| 20:08.21 | michaelnovakjr | jasta, my next is a game |
| 20:08.35 | jasta | I've been tossing around the idea of restarting Five development, tearing out and redesigning certain pieces that I know will need it. |
| 20:08.44 | jasta | Nothing that will be affected by the next SDK, though. |
| 20:09.01 | jasta | just stuff like the basic playlist service API I created. And also the cache API needs to be inverted. |
| 20:09.21 | jasta | And logic to make the cache work right needs to be implemented. Stuff like that ;) |
| 20:09.35 | michaelnovakjr | good stuff, i am looking forward to that app |
| 20:10.39 | jasta | http://code.google.com/p/android-tabletop/ -- that might be fun to load |
| 20:10.41 | romainguy__ | jasta: no I'm not judging |
| 20:10.42 | jasta | i remember talking with the guy who wrote it |
| 20:11.17 | michaelnovakjr | yea, i like chess |
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| 20:11.42 | jasta | that's basically the only game i could find that might actually work |
| 20:12.03 | jasta | oh and the description says it might not be playable |
| 20:12.04 | jasta | dang ;) |
| 20:12.19 | michaelnovakjr | i'll be writing a few logic games most likely |
| 20:12.29 | michaelnovakjr | just want to finish up the Messaging apk |
| 20:12.37 | jasta | 10 months and there's no solitaire game? lame. |
| 20:12.54 | romainguy__ | because solitaire is boring :p |
| 20:13.00 | jasta | Freecell solitaire is great. |
| 20:13.07 | jasta | Klondike is boring, yeah |
| 20:13.12 | jasta | but there are lots of solitaire games. |
| 20:13.13 | romainguy__ | I would like to see a port of all the Q? Entertainment games on Android |
| 20:13.30 | zhobbs_ | jasta: that board game is just a board...don't think there's an engine or ai behind it or anything |
| 20:13.45 | jasta | yeah probably not. |
| 20:13.59 | zhobbs_ | I think there's gotta be some kind of addicting MMO concept out there... |
| 20:14.06 | jasta | romainguy__: I would also love a Bomber clone :) |
| 20:14.37 | jasta | zhobbs_: Trivia would be fun. To be able to play against people in your city and have regionalized high scores and stuff. |
| 20:14.48 | jasta | Real-time playback, so you could identify the users who answer correctly/wrong etc. |
| 20:14.54 | jasta | Like the in-flight game on Delta |
| 20:15.12 | jasta | That was far more addictive than I initially thought it would be. |
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| 20:15.45 | michaelnovakjr | that's an interesting concept |
| 20:17.48 | zhobbs_ | I'm thinking there's probably a concept for an always on call type of game...something like the sims, where you might get a vibration at a random time to do something |
| 20:18.18 | michaelnovakjr | i don't know if that would catch my attention |
| 20:18.27 | zhobbs_ | me either |
| 20:18.28 | michaelnovakjr | i have a short lived desire to play games |
| 20:18.41 | michaelnovakjr | its one of those things you have to be interested in |
| 20:18.48 | zhobbs_ | yeah |
| 20:19.04 | jasta | Most people don't want their phone alerting them to random nonsense. |
| 20:19.12 | zhobbs_ | I learned a long time ago to stay away from MMORPG's |
| 20:19.24 | zhobbs_ | jasta: 14 year olds love that shit |
| 20:19.28 | jasta | Lately I've been thinking a lot about how I actually use my smartphone. |
| 20:19.37 | jasta | Paying very close attention to my habits, how I treat applications, etc. |
| 20:19.42 | michaelnovakjr | me too |
| 20:19.45 | michaelnovakjr | very close attention |
| 20:19.51 | zhobbs_ | I've never had a smart phone |
| 20:20.00 | jasta | One thing I've noticed about myself is that I often like to sort of multi-task my phone. So, I will open some link in Opera and while it loads I'll go read some news. |
| 20:20.00 | michaelnovakjr | really? |
| 20:20.00 | michaelnovakjr | you should get one |
| 20:20.23 | zhobbs_ | michaelnovakjr: I will |
| 20:20.31 | michaelnovakjr | zhobbs_: it'll certainly improve your application designs |
| 20:20.36 | michaelnovakjr | you'll see them differently |
| 20:21.12 | michaelnovakjr | it took me a little bit to get used to the fact its a small phone and not a desktop computer |
| 20:22.01 | zhobbs_ | I've used an iphone for a short perios |
| 20:22.03 | zhobbs_ | period |
| 20:28.46 | jasta | sorry, got pulled away from my desk before i finished my thought |
| 20:29.08 | jasta | Anyway what I meant was that I learned it's important to design your app assuming the user leaves *frequently* |
| 20:29.16 | jasta | and expects to have some task they started finished when they get back to it |
| 20:29.28 | jasta | assume that there is no linear flow invovling your program ever. |
| 20:30.09 | jasta | it helps you answer questions like "what to do with onStop()/onPause()? When does it make sense ot implement a task as a service?". |
| 20:30.22 | michaelnovakjr | yea |
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| 20:34.46 | jasta | a lot of times i found tempted to treat onStop as a directive to stop doing work |
| 20:34.53 | jasta | obviously that's onDestroy() :) |
| 20:35.18 | jasta | and i implemented things like a ProgressDialog for file downloads that would cancel when the user navigated away. |
| 20:35.21 | jasta | That's definitely wrong. |
| 20:35.40 | jasta | in fact, even a progressdialog in general may not make sense if there is something else in the app they could be doing |
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| 20:48.57 | romainguy | jasta: Anyway what I meant was that I learned it's important to design your app assuming the user leaves *frequently << that's what makes iPhone annoying to use: switching between apps |
| 20:52.49 | michaelnovakjr | romainguy i think the iPhone will shift gears |
| 20:53.02 | romainguy | they have to |
| 20:53.19 | romainguy | I barely use 3rd party apps on my iPhone because it's too annoying to switch from one app to the other |
| 20:53.26 | romainguy | especially when you leave a game |
| 20:54.51 | michaelnovakjr | ooo Android developer using an iPhone |
| 20:54.53 | michaelnovakjr | haha |
| 20:54.55 | jasta | that surprises me. i've never used an iphone, but i would have figured they would not have made a mistake like that. |
| 20:55.07 | michaelnovakjr | jasta, its part of being too controlling |
| 20:55.10 | jasta | even windows mobile generally works fine to multi-task |
| 20:55.16 | jasta | except that some apps cancel your actions when you leave |
| 20:55.25 | jasta | but what you really are saying is "do your work, i'll come back" |
| 20:55.25 | michaelnovakjr | true, but others keep state |
| 20:55.37 | romainguy | jasta: it's because an app cannot run in the background |
| 20:55.40 | romainguy | so apps are restarted every time |
| 20:55.42 | michaelnovakjr | yea |
| 20:55.51 | michaelnovakjr | when it leaves the screen the app is killed |
| 20:55.58 | jasta | oh, stupid :) |
| 20:56.24 | romainguy | michaelnovakjr: I use Android devices whenever I can |
| 20:56.24 | jasta | that's an interesting choice to make. no other smart phone platform is like that. |
| 20:56.29 | romainguy | but in public I use an iPhone |
| 20:56.34 | michaelnovakjr | romainguy it makes sense |
| 20:56.34 | jasta | in fact, part of the main difference between smart phones and regular phones is that they multi-task. |
| 20:56.46 | michaelnovakjr | yea |
| 20:56.56 | michaelnovakjr | iPhone will definitely have to change that mentality i think |
| 20:57.35 | romainguy | something else that's annoying |
| 20:57.41 | romainguy | is when you get a notification sound |
| 20:57.47 | romainguy | you don't know if it's an email, an IM, etc. |
| 20:58.27 | jasta | on windows mboile i just set different noises for those events |
| 20:59.01 | romainguy__ | don't you get an icon in the status bar? |
| 20:59.05 | romainguy__ | I don't remember |
| 20:59.12 | romainguy__ | it's been a long time since I had a WinMo device |
| 20:59.22 | yakischloba | Same icon for MMS, SMS and email all on my winmo phone |
| 20:59.25 | romainguy__ | (and I hated it) |
| 20:59.37 | jasta | romainguy: I hate it too. |
| 21:00.04 | romainguy__ | I'm always amazed by how slow Windows Mobile is at even drawing screens |
| 21:00.12 | romainguy__ | considering the CPU these devices sometimes have |
| 21:00.34 | jasta | romainguy: Well, it's Windows 95 ;) |
| 21:00.44 | jasta | Windows 95 is heavy even for a mobile phone. |
| 21:00.44 | romainguy__ | I was also amazed by some OS limitations :) |
| 21:00.54 | romainguy__ | in Windows Mobile 4 it was impossible to have more than 3 levels of folders |
| 21:03.17 | jasta | one of my friends works on the Windows Mobile team. |
| 21:03.41 | romainguy | all my condolences :) |
| 21:03.51 | jasta | that team is so clueless. they've just buried their head in the sand and refuse to listen to their customers. |
| 21:04.13 | zhobbs_ | they'll have to change |
| 21:04.28 | romainguy | zhobbs_: I'd rather they don't ;) |
| 21:04.53 | jasta | and now she's parroting all their dogma too. |
| 21:05.00 | zhobbs_ | can iphone open word/excel files? |
| 21:05.23 | romainguy | it can view them |
| 21:05.25 | romainguy | not edit them |
| 21:05.42 | zhobbs_ | ok |
| 21:06.11 | jasta | zhobbs_: Microsoft is actually not going to change their Windows Mobile strategy. |
| 21:06.16 | michaelnovakjr | romainguy, android will have a lot more to offer i feel |
| 21:06.31 | jasta | I can assure you of that. It is quite clear both internally and externally that they feel like the iPhone, Android, etc are flukes. |
| 21:07.02 | michaelnovakjr | jasta, that's too bad for them then |
| 21:07.03 | zhobbs_ | they thought the internet was a fluke |
| 21:07.08 | jasta | And that consumers are largely unmoved by these innovations. |
| 21:07.28 | jasta | Microsoft can only see their business customers as well. They are blind to anyone else. |
| 21:07.37 | michaelnovakjr | true |
| 21:07.44 | jasta | They refuse to accept that mobile phones are *PERSONAL* devices that just so happen to find use professionally as well. |
| 21:08.01 | jasta | No skin off my back. All it means is that they will go away and quit bothering the mobile industry :) |
| 21:08.27 | michaelnovakjr | yep :) |
| 21:11.22 | jasta | Really though, it's hard to listen to my friend on the team. |
| 21:11.49 | jasta | She just sounds so totally lost. |
| 21:11.54 | michaelnovakjr | haha |
| 21:12.24 | jasta | Within 2 weeks of working there she began spewing the Microsoft dogma without even a hint of a unique idea ;) |
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| 21:23.59 | jasta_ | sup :) |
| 21:24.18 | yakischloba | you sure have taken a liking to irc on on your phone eh |
| 21:24.43 | jasta_ | yup. i just wish i had ssh so i wouldnt need a new irc session. |
| 21:24.50 | jasta_ | i could set up a bounce, tho. |
| 21:25.11 | jasta_ | a new irc connection i meant |
| 21:26.00 | yakischloba | mmhmm |
| 21:28.00 | jasta_ | i might ditch out of work early today :) |
| 21:30.37 | romainguy__ | jasta: as opposed to the other days? :) |
| 21:33.41 | jasta | yeah, my work ethic sucks lately |
| 21:33.43 | jasta | i admit it :) |
| 21:33.55 | jasta | but my job performance, none-the-less, is excellent :) |
| 21:34.27 | romainguy | obviously, since it's you :) |
| 21:35.11 | AttractiveApe | jasta_: what phone do you have? |
| 21:35.21 | AttractiveApe | Get a real phone that has SSH ;) |
| 21:37.16 | jasta | AttractiveApe: moto q9h |
| 21:37.26 | jasta | romainguy: well, it's good. it's not excellent ;) |
| 21:37.36 | jasta | it used to be excellent hehe |
| 21:37.50 | jasta | i stopped caring about this job right around November last year *hint hint* |
| 21:38.24 | AttractiveApe | jasta: well, install ssh then. |
| 21:38.33 | jasta | AttractiveApe: there's no decent free windows mobile ssh client. |
| 21:38.36 | AttractiveApe | putty or there's a myriad of them. |
| 21:38.40 | jasta | putty, last i tried, is AWFUL |
| 21:38.46 | jasta | and doesn't work right on landscape phones anyway |
| 21:38.47 | AttractiveApe | compared to not having ssh? |
| 21:39.00 | jasta | putty at least is truly unusable last time i checked it out |
| 21:39.12 | jasta | the UI clipped and 2/3 of the width of the screen was left blank |
| 21:39.34 | jasta | it was clearly for PocketPC, then poorly hacked to work on WM5/6 |
| 21:42.40 | *** join/#android dims (n=dims@c-66-31-154-33.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 21:46.25 | jasta | romainguy: don't patronize ;) |
| 21:46.45 | romainguy | jasta: ? |
| 21:46.59 | jasta | i just caught your "obviously, since it's you" comment :) |
| 21:47.21 | romainguy | well, yes |
| 21:49.00 | jasta | surely as a fellow engineer you can forgive my hubris :) |
| 21:51.37 | *** join/#android cutmasta (n=cutmasta@ip-78-94-46-184.hsi.ish.de) |
| 21:55.26 | davidw | is never going to work with windows mobile |
| 21:55.35 | davidw | just not interesting |
| 21:55.55 | jasta | C# .NET is even a crippled envirnment on it. they don't even support their own technology well. |
| 22:12.17 | *** join/#android krau (n=cktakaha@200.184.118.132) |
| 22:13.47 | *** join/#android jsilvaa (n=jsilva@142.150.154.107) |
| 22:41.22 | *** join/#android romainguy_ (n=gfx@72.14.224.1) |
| 22:55.24 | jasta | grrr. apparently i can't buy from Adobe's store from Firefox on Ubuntu |
| 22:55.26 | jasta | that's real cute. |
| 22:56.49 | jasta | hmm, it seems to be broken in Firefox on Windows too |
| 22:56.51 | jasta | raises an eyebrow |
| 23:03.04 | jasta | oh my god. traffic is horrific looking. |
| 23:03.16 | jasta | Google maps has the 0-10mph lines for a huge part of my drive home :( |
| 23:05.48 | romainguy_ | jasta: weird, I bought LightRoom 2 with Firefox a few days ago |
| 23:09.47 | jasta | it was just some brokenness with their account creation |
| 23:09.51 | jasta | it said i had to check my form input |
| 23:09.58 | jasta | but then it created my account anyway, i just had to back out and log in. |
| 23:10.22 | jasta | for a while i thought it was a form validation error because i was unchecking that they could spam me |
| 23:15.44 | jasta | michaelnovakjr: i am becoming increasingly aware of just how little open source software exists on Android... |
| 23:15.53 | jasta | for* |
| 23:16.17 | romainguy_ | jasta: it will get better once the SDK 1.0 is out :) |
| 23:16.23 | romainguy_ | and when the contest is over too |
| 23:16.38 | jasta | i would've expected all the initial software to be open sourced. most of the losing apps, even. |
| 23:16.50 | jasta | especially stupid dummy games and things |
| 23:17.19 | jasta | i wonder if we'll have a hard time changing the mobile ecosystem even with an open source platform. |
| 23:17.35 | jasta | everyone seems to want to make a quick buck from trivial programs |
| 23:17.47 | davidw | traffic is going to suck here too this weekend... all of Italy goes on vacation |
| 23:18.05 | jasta | davidw: why? |
| 23:18.05 | davidw | with lots of them spilling out over the border... and germans headed the other way |
| 23:18.20 | davidw | jasta, everyone takes their vacations in August |
| 23:19.20 | jasta | i'm starting to get an itch to write something simple like a game or update my news reader and publish the source. |
| 23:19.30 | jasta | but then i know that i will be too lazy to update them once the next SDK drops |
| 23:19.31 | jasta | sigh |
| 23:20.12 | jasta | did i invent some blurb about how an android engineer felt the SDK would be coming in a few weeks? i can't remember if that was true or not |
| 23:21.19 | davidw | sleep time for me |
| 23:25.40 | jasta | i must have made that up :) |
| 23:25.58 | umdk1d4 | well, it will come out at some point |
| 23:26.03 | umdk1d4 | and future time can be measured in weeks |
| 23:26.43 | *** join/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@c-69-244-215-210.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 23:26.53 | umdk1d4 | aaand who changed the topic? o.o |
| 23:27.18 | Dougie187 | that is a rather odd topic... |
| 23:27.44 | umdk1d4 | and ive got opers in there now lol |
| 23:27.49 | jasta | for some reason morrildl thought it was hilarious. w hat a dork :) |
| 23:27.56 | umdk1d4 | ill share with anyone else who joins :) |
| 23:27.56 | Dougie187 | i dont even get it.. |
| 23:28.13 | umdk1d4 | libre=free beer |
| 23:28.15 | jasta | i was babbling about their promotion of "freeware" in the new google group they started |
| 23:28.16 | umdk1d4 | oh wait |
| 23:28.18 | umdk1d4 | libre=liberty |
| 23:28.28 | jasta | umdk1d4: no, the other one. not free beer. |
| 23:28.38 | umdk1d4 | jasta: wait /they/ started the google group? |
| 23:29.00 | jasta | i think so, yes. |
| 23:29.11 | umdk1d4 | you mean android-freeware.org? |
| 23:29.24 | umdk1d4 | with its related http://groups.google.com/group/android-freeware |
| 23:29.53 | jasta | oh no, they did not. nevermind. |
| 23:30.13 | jasta | still, i was just babbling to dan anyway |
| 23:30.22 | dpino | jasta your app in on the top list |
| 23:30.32 | jasta | dpino: because i added it, and it was the most recent to be added. |
| 23:30.42 | dpino | ah ok |
| 23:31.07 | dpino | submitted by karlos002, is it you? |
| 23:31.07 | jasta | i've been getting very frustrated lately that everything i find is closed source. |
| 23:31.11 | jasta | no |
| 23:31.26 | umdk1d4 | jasta: i think it will get better |
| 23:31.29 | romainguy_ | jasta: if it's a good app, does it really matter if it's open source? |
| 23:31.42 | umdk1d4 | however, the biggest problem im seeing is that people arent following the Right Way(tm) of doing things on android |
| 23:31.44 | Dougie187 | its the pricipal romainguy |
| 23:31.53 | umdk1d4 | partially because lots of us dont know those ways yet |
| 23:31.53 | romainguy_ | Dougie187: why? |
| 23:31.53 | jasta | romainguy_: i think it matters a lot that at least some powerful, robust applications are open sourced. |
| 23:32.03 | jasta | it serves as a great platform for exploring best practices, sophisticated design, etc. |
| 23:32.03 | romainguy_ | jasta: I agree |
| 23:32.30 | jasta | i don't care at all if all or even most of them are. just that there is a healthy community of both small and large projects. |
| 23:32.33 | umdk1d4 | agreed, best practices are good |
| 23:32.38 | jasta | of good quality, as well. |
| 23:32.52 | romainguy_ | umdk1d4: open source apps are not always good examples ;-) |
| 23:33.00 | dpino | submitted by karlos002, is it you? => it may be related to the ad |
| 23:33.02 | umdk1d4 | thats why the sample code with the sdk is useful--it shows the right-way of doing thigs |
| 23:33.03 | jasta | for me, the advantage of open source is that you can explore more advanced engineering topics openly, and with other engineers who know what they are talking about. |
| 23:33.10 | umdk1d4 | romainguy_: true, but its better than a blank slate |
| 23:33.21 | umdk1d4 | and if its truely open, then people who know the rightway can fix it ;) |
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| 23:33.56 | jasta | romainguy_: And really, right now, smaller apps being opened would be of much greater benefit to the community. |
| 23:36.02 | jasta | openness is really about education to me. openness is the only reason i was able to create and publish significant software at 15. colloboration of a lot of folks who knew a lot more than i did :) |
| 23:36.07 | jasta | collaboration* |
