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| 00:55.49 | jasta | michaelnovakjr: *poke* |
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| 02:57.31 | muthu | so, what's next? |
| 03:11.26 | romainguy__ | muthu: the announcement of the ADC2 winners? |
| 03:11.36 | muthu | oh yeah |
| 03:11.46 | muthu | can you make it this week ;) |
| 03:12.58 | muthu | romainguy_: is there a longterm roadmap for android? |
| 03:13.19 | romainguy__ | what do you mean? |
| 03:13.32 | muthu | i just want to commit myself to android for a longterm |
| 03:13.46 | muthu | so just want to make sure there are plans for android over the next 3 yrs |
| 03:14.18 | muthu | you know, its a big risk for us.. small players |
| 03:15.00 | romainguy__ | unfortunately I cannot give any non-public information |
| 03:15.14 | romainguy__ | but I'm sure you'll be able to figure out what the answer is |
| 03:15.24 | muthu | yeah, i know |
| 03:15.30 | muthu | but some official confirmation would be cool |
| 03:16.21 | muthu | am going to focus on mobeegal a bit more and get the search thing sorted out :) |
| 03:16.44 | muthu | did you play with the 50 apps? |
| 03:16.55 | yakischloba_ | they've been taking advantage of the community to develop their product, which they are going to make closed and proprietary, and sell to apple. |
| 03:17.00 | romainguy__ | nope I haven't seen them |
| 03:17.08 | muthu | check it out |
| 03:17.31 | romainguy__ | yakischloba_: ?? |
| 03:17.39 | muthu | lol |
| 03:17.47 | yakischloba_ | romainguy__: i'm being serious. take me seriously. |
| 03:17.52 | muthu | goog has the right intentions |
| 03:17.59 | yakischloba_ | romainguy__: lighten up champ :) |
| 03:18.07 | muthu | but they have not planned it right |
| 03:18.28 | romainguy__ | muthu: there are so many things you don't know :)) |
| 03:18.32 | yakischloba_ | shrug...its not an easy thing to plan. |
| 03:18.42 | muthu | am keeping the faith |
| 03:18.49 | muthu | for a couple of reasons |
| 03:18.53 | muthu | . android rocks |
| 03:19.01 | muthu | . its free and opensource |
| 03:19.14 | muthu | i mean its ridiculously easy to program android |
| 03:19.21 | yakischloba_ | yeah it is. |
| 03:19.26 | muthu | android is the new php for mobile |
| 03:19.37 | romainguy__ | I don't know if that's a compliment :)) |
| 03:19.41 | muthu | lol |
| 03:19.51 | muthu | ok.. android is the new python for mobile |
| 03:19.53 | romainguy__ | I mean, PHP has very crappy APIs ^^ |
| 03:19.54 | romainguy__ | well |
| 03:20.00 | romainguy__ | Python has very crappy APIs ^^ |
| 03:20.05 | yakischloba_ | even someone with little programming experience and no java experience like me can walk in and start building applications |
| 03:20.12 | muthu | yeah |
| 03:20.17 | muthu | that's the beauty of android |
| 03:20.24 | muthu | and more and more folks are getting it |
| 03:20.53 | muthu | android is amazing well designed |
| 03:21.05 | romainguy__ | I wouldn't go that far :p |
| 03:21.17 | muthu | haha |
| 03:21.20 | romainguy__ | we have unfortunately many flaws |
| 03:21.27 | romainguy__ | but that's expected |
| 03:21.31 | romainguy__ | anyway |
| 03:21.34 | romainguy__ | that's my bus stop |
| 03:21.38 | romainguy__ | see ya |
| 03:21.42 | muthu | see ya |
| 03:23.46 | yakischloba_ | what is your app muthu? |
| 03:24.10 | muthu | for adc 1 - http://cookingcapsules.com |
| 03:24.17 | muthu | for adc 2 - http://mobeegal.in |
| 03:24.39 | yakischloba_ | lot of time on your hands? ;) |
| 03:24.46 | muthu | yeah, full time droiding |
| 03:25.02 | yakischloba_ | independently wealthy? ;) |
| 03:25.05 | muthu | i've been running my own company for some time |
| 03:25.15 | muthu | yakischloba_: i'm spoiled ;) |
| 03:25.19 | yakischloba_ | heh nice |
| 03:25.31 | yakischloba_ | you mean, your company runs itself at this point? ;) |
| 03:25.48 | muthu | i'm getting there.. |
| 03:26.05 | muthu | yakischloba_: what you do? |
| 03:26.38 | yakischloba_ | Uhm. I work for a natural foods distributor but I have an interview at a data center in the morning. |
| 03:27.07 | muthu | good luck |
| 03:27.49 | yakischloba_ | jeez I sure hope so. I'm so tired of my current job. I'm pretty sure the guy interviewing me is the guy I know though, so it ought to work out. |
| 03:28.45 | muthu | great |
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| 03:28.55 | michaelnovakjr__ | howdy |
| 03:29.00 | muthu | hiya |
| 03:29.09 | yakischloba_ | sure would be nice to do android full time though. that would be a blast. |
| 03:29.15 | yakischloba_ | hey there michaelnovakjr__ |
| 03:29.19 | michaelnovakjr__ | hey |
| 03:29.20 | muthu | android full time is a dream job |
| 03:29.47 | yakischloba_ | I usually only have a couple hours in the evening to work on it...I spend one of them figuring out what I was working on the day before |
| 03:29.50 | michaelnovakjr__ | indeed it would be nice |
| 03:29.57 | michaelnovakjr__ | :) |
| 03:30.59 | muthu | yakischloba_: comments can help you |
| 03:31.18 | yakischloba_ | hehe |
| 03:31.19 | michaelnovakjr__ | jasta, around? |
| 03:31.20 | yakischloba_ | yeah I know ;) |
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| 03:32.05 | muthu | haha.. but no one does that |
| 03:32.20 | michaelnovakjr__ | i do |
| 03:32.30 | muthu | really? let me check your code.. |
| 03:32.35 | michaelnovakjr__ | i try to make commit messages meaningful too |
| 03:32.37 | muthu | goes to android-random |
| 03:32.41 | michaelnovakjr__ | :) |
| 03:32.43 | yakischloba_ | I leave some comments..i also keep a text file with notes to myself |
| 03:32.51 | michaelnovakjr__ | I don't have any active ones muthu... |
| 03:32.55 | michaelnovakjr__ | i use TODO comments |
| 03:33.01 | muthu | oh |
| 03:33.03 | michaelnovakjr__ | to remind myself of what i need |
| 03:33.11 | michaelnovakjr__ | Messages might still have a few :) |
| 03:33.20 | michaelnovakjr__ | i can't remember if i cleaned it up yet |
| 03:33.29 | muthu | haha.. that's the other problem |
| 03:33.37 | muthu | i put a lot of todo |
| 03:33.41 | muthu | but never revisit |
| 03:34.05 | michaelnovakjr__ | oh, i revisit them... i put must have stuff as a TODO |
| 03:34.23 | muthu | its always "no time" |
| 03:34.38 | michaelnovakjr__ | i don't have deadlines :) |
| 03:34.52 | muthu | you need to have some ;) |
| 03:34.57 | michaelnovakjr__ | what for? |
| 03:35.08 | muthu | michaelnovakjr: need to check your sms app.. is it in random? |
| 03:35.14 | michaelnovakjr__ | yep |
| 03:35.18 | muthu | ok |
| 03:35.28 | muthu | this is great stuff, btw |
| 03:35.29 | michaelnovakjr__ | its going to be included in Martin's next release |
| 03:35.33 | michaelnovakjr__ | thanks |
| 03:35.45 | muthu | add some reusable intents |
| 03:35.50 | muthu | like "openintents" |
| 03:36.01 | romainguy | re |
| 03:36.05 | michaelnovakjr__ | what do you mean by reusable? |
| 03:36.21 | muthu | reusable "Activity" |
| 03:36.32 | muthu | "Service" etc., |
| 03:36.41 | michaelnovakjr__ | what do i need a Service for? |
| 03:36.46 | muthu | you don't |
| 03:36.50 | muthu | may be others will |
| 03:36.54 | michaelnovakjr__ | for what? |
| 03:37.07 | muthu | android-random |
| 03:37.14 | muthu | will be random.. only if you do random stuff |
| 03:37.28 | muthu | you can't be too picky! |
| 03:37.29 | michaelnovakjr__ | ooohhh, i thought you were just talking about the Messages app |
| 03:37.37 | muthu | oh no |
| 03:37.50 | muthu | just giving some ideas.. on attracting community |
| 03:38.22 | muthu | i know, openintents attracted a large crowd |
| 03:38.31 | michaelnovakjr__ | such as... |
| 03:38.37 | muthu | but somehow it did not materialize well |
| 03:40.46 | muthu | romainguy_: what's the best way to build reusable components in android? |
| 03:41.00 | michaelnovakjr__ | make them reusable :) |
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| 03:42.17 | muthu | michaelnovakjr: if i need to use your stuff, should it be installed as an apk? |
| 03:42.39 | michaelnovakjr__ | if you want to use the apps themselves? |
| 03:43.49 | muthu | if i want to use some part of your app |
| 03:44.06 | michaelnovakjr__ | which app in particular? |
| 03:44.32 | muthu | nothing in particular.. but if need to.. how do i? |
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| 03:45.07 | michaelnovakjr__ | well, the sms application uses the android standard intents |
| 03:45.17 | michaelnovakjr__ | for receiving and sending |
| 03:45.38 | muthu | so, how do i use your sms intent? |
| 03:45.40 | michaelnovakjr__ | so your app could initiate an sms by calling the SENDTO action |
| 03:46.02 | michaelnovakjr__ | are you familiar with calling intents? |
| 03:46.25 | muthu | assume i'm not familiar |
| 03:46.50 | michaelnovakjr__ | create an intent to call the sendto action and then start the activity |
| 03:47.24 | muthu | are there any map related activites? |
| 03:47.52 | michaelnovakjr__ | http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/content/Intent.html |
| 03:47.58 | muthu | lol |
| 03:48.05 | muthu | thanks for the link, i've never seen it ;) |
| 03:48.39 | michaelnovakjr__ | i figured that :) |
| 03:48.44 | muthu | haha |
| 03:49.23 | michaelnovakjr__ | i haven't really messed with maps, so i can't say for certain |
| 03:49.35 | muthu | ok |
| 03:50.01 | muthu | android-random is in google code right? |
| 03:50.42 | michaelnovakjr__ | yea |
| 03:51.27 | yakischloba_ | lol |
| 03:52.00 | michaelnovakjr__ | i'm sorry muthu, are you new here? |
| 03:52.09 | michaelnovakjr__ | http://code.google.com/p/android-random :) |
| 03:52.22 | muthu | lol |
| 03:52.25 | muthu | checking out.. |
| 03:58.24 | michaelnovakjr__ | any good? |
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| 03:59.54 | yakischloba_ | all trash. |
| 04:00.40 | michaelnovakjr__ | :) |
| 04:17.43 | jasta | yawn |
| 04:17.57 | jasta | michaelnovakjr__: hey, i'm just about done with the basic game logic :) |
| 04:18.03 | jasta | then it's just polish |
| 04:18.26 | michaelnovakjr__ | sweet |
| 04:18.38 | michaelnovakjr__ | Martin's going to put the Messages app in his next release |
| 04:18.43 | jasta | nice :) |
| 04:18.45 | jasta | what about Glance? |
| 04:18.53 | michaelnovakjr__ | i didn't ask him about it |
| 04:19.12 | michaelnovakjr__ | should include the httpdownloader too :) |
| 04:19.17 | michaelnovakjr__ | make it easy Downlo |
| 04:19.39 | michaelnovakjr__ | make it easy... not sure where the Downlo came from :) |
| 04:19.50 | jasta | michaelnovakjr__: hehe, "i'm sorry muthu, are you new here?" :) |
| 04:19.54 | michaelnovakjr__ | :) |
| 04:20.14 | michaelnovakjr__ | he was pestering again :) |
| 04:20.26 | muthu | hey, someone called me ;) |
| 04:20.52 | muthu | what's up jasta? |
| 04:20.57 | muthu | how you been? |
| 04:21.09 | jasta | good |
| 04:21.21 | jasta | michaelnovakjr__: alright, i've got another 2 or 3 hours then the solitaire game will be playable. |
| 04:23.20 | michaelnovakjr__ | jasta, sweet... i'll give it a good device test on the way to work in the morning :) |
| 04:23.40 | jasta | michaelnovakjr__: unfortunately, the layout is pretty hardcoded at the moment for the hvga skin on the emulator |
| 04:23.52 | jasta | one thing i want to polish is making it work nicely on lots of orientations and stuff |
| 04:23.56 | michaelnovakjr__ | think the resolution will be an issue? |
| 04:23.59 | jasta | demonstrate by example how to make an app that works well on lots of devices |
| 04:24.12 | jasta | not only just stretching the UI, but actually have different layouts. |
| 04:24.33 | jasta | also, Klondike is what I implemented first because I assumed it would be easiest. Freecell is next. |
| 04:24.39 | michaelnovakjr__ | i was playing with the messages app without using the touch screen, really elementary but it was cool to see it functioned :) |
| 04:26.56 | jasta | ok, back to coding |
| 04:26.57 | jasta | later |
| 04:27.11 | michaelnovakjr__ | later :) |
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| 04:54.15 | jasta | michaelnovakjr__: hmm, i'm stepping through this bug in a debugger now and this makes absolutely no sense. |
| 04:54.22 | jasta | i'm starting to suspect another bug in the debugger |
| 04:56.37 | jasta | nope, it's just that same old stupid bug |
| 04:56.44 | jasta | oh well, i figured out my logic problem without the debugger |
| 05:01.51 | jasta | just comitted a major set of bug fixes... |
| 05:02.01 | jasta | it's playable-ish. |
| 05:02.30 | jasta | ugly as sin, and there's none of the usual niceties, and it never ends ;) |
| 05:02.33 | jasta | there's no "you win" logic |
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| 05:04.50 | jasta | and i still don't have the suit images for diamonds/hearts ;) |
| 05:07.25 | jasta | i actually need to learn more about Klondike before I can implement the end game. I don't even really know what the ideal logic is for automatically ending it. |
| 05:07.39 | jasta | As in, I don't know when to automatically pull up the the cards onto the foundation. |
| 05:08.13 | muthu | jasta: are more games coming? |
| 05:08.28 | jasta | probably not. i had this game mostly written back in December and I just recently decided to finish it up. |
| 05:08.45 | jasta | was just a simple way to learn Android at the time. Now it's a way to reinforce what I know now :) |
| 05:09.06 | muthu | cuil |
| 05:09.28 | jasta | cuil? |
| 05:09.44 | muthu | cul |
| 05:09.50 | jasta | huh? |
| 05:09.55 | muthu | kool |
| 05:10.02 | yakischloba_ | lame |
| 05:10.14 | muthu | cuil is the new kool |
| 05:10.26 | jasta | cuil is pronounced cool, it doesn't mean cool. |
| 05:10.46 | muthu | its the next google |
| 05:11.26 | jasta | please don't say cuil ever again to mean cool. you sound like an ignorant fanboy. |
| 05:11.54 | muthu | cuil |
| 05:12.09 | yakischloba_ | ouch |
| 05:12.10 | jasta | It's just related to Irish folklore, and has no business making its way into your diction. |
| 05:12.21 | muthu | what does it mean? |
| 05:12.24 | muthu | in irish? |
| 05:12.36 | jasta | It's the name of a guy, Finn McCuil. |
| 05:12.42 | yakischloba_ | guigle |
| 05:12.56 | jasta | and it had been around long before that stupid search engine. |
| 05:13.08 | jasta | For example, the bar I have gone to frequently for the past 4 years is called Finn McCool's. |
| 05:13.35 | muthu | wonder where cuil got the name from.. |
| 05:13.42 | jasta | The legend of the man himself is hundreds of years old. |
| 05:14.12 | jasta | muthu: It's just a guy's name. It doesn't mean anything in particular anymore. |
| 05:15.05 | muthu | jasta: i don't think they named after the guy |
| 05:15.10 | jasta | yes they most certainly did |
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| 05:16.11 | jasta | And yes, it was spelled Cuil, and is now spelled and pronounced Cool, even by the Irish. It does not share meaning with "cool" as you used it. |
| 05:16.42 | muthu | that's in ireland |
| 05:17.08 | duey | cuil is so fail |
| 05:17.23 | muthu | but they have an interesting concept |
| 05:17.30 | duey | what? |
| 05:17.38 | duey | i didn't find anything interesting about it |
| 05:17.44 | duey | its hard to read, far to much content |
| 05:18.19 | muthu | google thinks everyone is happy with its simple layout |
| 05:18.22 | duey | search engines are supposed to get you to the content |
| 05:18.38 | duey | (fast) |
| 05:18.40 | muthu | but there might be a crowd for a rich layout |
| 05:18.54 | muthu | so my guess is cuil is going after those who want rich content |
| 05:19.01 | duey | maybe, got to get the basics right first though.. |
| 05:19.08 | duey | it doesnt even return relevant results |
| 05:19.08 | muthu | agree |
| 05:19.11 | jasta | http://failblog.org/2008/08/05/ladder-fail-3/ |
| 05:19.12 | jasta | hehe |
| 05:19.18 | muthu | must be relevant and rich |
| 05:19.27 | duey | lol |
| 05:19.27 | jasta | duey: you made me go there ;) |
| 05:19.42 | duey | jasta, yeah its my favourite word now |
| 05:19.44 | duey | <3 failblog |
| 05:19.48 | jasta | http://failblog.org/2008/08/05/bathroom-hook-fail/ |
| 05:19.51 | jasta | oh boy, i could go on forever |
| 05:20.29 | jasta | http://failblog.org/2008/08/04/clearance-fail/ -- oh *SHIT* |
| 05:20.31 | duey | ive spent hours on that site |
| 05:21.18 | jasta | ditto |
| 05:23.46 | jasta | HAHAHA |
| 05:23.49 | jasta | http://failblog.org/2008/07/31/animal-identification-fail/ |
| 05:23.51 | jasta | oh my god |
| 05:23.52 | jasta | that's awesome |
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| 05:51.17 | jasta | michaelnovakjr__: *poke* |
| 06:59.30 | jasta | michaelnovakjr__: i made a skin that is 240x320 just like the Vogue :) |
| 07:03.07 | jasta | michaelnovakjr__: you know what's interesting. at this resolution, the emulator seems to run much faster. it runs much more like the device does. |
| 07:04.06 | tric | hmm, only the gui or is the scheduler working better aswell? |
| 07:04.23 | jasta | just the gui, i'm sure. |
| 07:04.39 | f00f- | jasta, any recommendations on where to stay in downtown seattle for the weekend? |
| 07:05.19 | tric | i have got a big problem to get a isochronos rtp stream out of the emu |
| 07:05.29 | jasta | f00f-: Downtown is too expensive, and it sucks, basically. |
| 07:05.56 | f00f- | hmm |
| 07:06.37 | jasta | knowing what i know about the city, i'd stay on Aurora somewhere North Seattle and just roll on out to Fremont or whatever for drinkin' |
| 07:06.58 | jasta | All the downtown hotels are near trendy night clubs and other lameness. |
| 07:07.21 | jasta | and they are like $200 or more a night. Whereas just a few miles north on Aurora you can stay in a mediocre hotel for about $100. |
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| 07:08.01 | jasta | But if you must stay downtown, do know that the only bar with anything there is Fado's. |
| 07:08.15 | f00f- | hmm, well i'm not looking for a bad hotel experience either :P |
| 07:08.15 | jasta | worth anything* |
| 07:08.20 | f00f- | any place with a view of the cityscape? |
| 07:09.30 | jasta | probably quite a few :) |
| 07:09.33 | muthu | jasta: f00f- has a lot of money to burn ;) |
| 07:09.50 | jasta | the coolest place to see a view of the city is anywhere just slightly east of I-5 in the downtown area |
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| 07:10.11 | jasta | not sure if there are hotels there though. i've been to several condos up on that side though and it's really sweet up there |
| 07:10.17 | f00f- | nice |
| 07:10.22 | f00f- | thx, i'll take a look |
| 07:10.23 | jasta | seattle is basically one giant hill moving up East from the water. |
| 07:10.28 | f00f- | ah |
| 07:10.45 | jasta | that's why all the streets in the heart of downtown look to orient themselves different than all the others. |
| 07:10.57 | jasta | Queen Anne also has incredible views of downtown. |
| 07:11.05 | jasta | because it can see across the water |
| 07:11.15 | jasta | queen anne is also cooler than downtown :) |
| 07:13.44 | jasta | really, downtown nightlife is basically just night clubs. the bars are awful down there (except Fado's *grin*) |
| 07:14.18 | jasta | Capitol Hill is where all the music venues are, and also where most of Seattle's edginess comes from :) |
| 07:15.12 | jasta | Fremont has the best overall night life hands down, though. |
| 07:16.25 | f00f- | cool, good to hear |
| 07:16.33 | f00f- | is the minus the bear or whatever from there too? |
| 07:16.37 | f00f- | :P |
| 07:17.31 | jasta | they're from Seattle, I don't know whereabouts. |
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| 07:18.19 | jasta | if the weather's nice, go to Greenlake. It's way crowded but in a good way. Lots of half naked girls ;) |
| 07:18.30 | f00f- | oh my |
| 07:18.44 | f00f- | seattle sounds so much better already |
| 07:18.52 | muthu | lol |
| 07:18.55 | jasta | you'd be a stone's throw from my house too. |
| 07:19.19 | muthu | jasta: now we know why you stay in seattle ;) |
| 07:20.08 | jasta | well, Seattle's got nothing on SoCal. |
| 07:20.47 | jasta | f00f-: The U District is a fun area too. There's basically just one street called The Ave (it's really University Way, don't ask), everything is off of that. |
| 07:21.16 | jasta | In the summer time I swear it should be illegal to drive through there. So many hot girls you can't hope to keep your car driving straight. |
| 07:21.36 | f00f- | haha daym! |
| 07:23.12 | jasta | Also, best gyro you've ever had is at Aladdin's Gyrocery toward the north side on the ave. |
| 07:23.48 | jasta | but actually the U District is not a good place to go out at night by yourself. it's full of rowdy drunkards. |
| 07:25.12 | muthu | hmm gyro's |
| 07:27.40 | jasta | f00f-: What brings you to Seattle by the way? Something going on I should know about? :) |
| 07:28.03 | f00f- | ``So many hot girls`` |
| 07:28.04 | f00f- | :P |
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| 07:43.09 | jasta | yikes, almost 1am |
| 07:43.12 | jasta | time for bed for sure |
| 07:43.20 | muthu | you work crazy! |
| 07:43.23 | jasta | if anyone's curious, my crappy Klondike game does work now. |
| 07:43.33 | jasta | it's in SVN at android-random.googlecode.com |
| 07:43.40 | jerkface03 | does it involve doing things for a klondike bar? |
| 07:43.44 | muthu | cuil.. checking out |
| 07:44.10 | gambler | jasta: can I request a protocol buffers IPC/RPC layer for one of your examples? |
| 07:44.16 | jasta | it's actually mostly a Solitaire engine, with Klondike currently implemented as a simple demo. |
| 07:44.28 | gambler | the android engineers arent doing anything with it from what romainguy has said |
| 07:44.30 | jasta | I will support Freecell soon, which is the Solitaire game I prefer. |
| 07:44.37 | gambler | :p |
| 07:44.56 | jasta | gambler: What? You mean can you request that I write up an example using protocol buffers on Android? |
| 07:45.15 | gambler | jasta, no just a new communications framework |
| 07:45.28 | jasta | I'm not really interested in that. |
| 07:45.32 | gambler | :( |
| 07:45.37 | jasta | Why would you want a new IPC system in Android anyway? |
| 07:45.50 | gambler | the existing systems leave something to be desired |
| 07:45.55 | jasta | Like? |
| 07:45.57 | gambler | webservices = fat |
| 07:46.07 | gambler | sms = unelegant semantics |
| 07:46.18 | gambler | gtalkservice = meh |
| 07:46.29 | jasta | what does that got to do with the IPC transport? |
| 07:46.31 | f00f- | webservices are lean and mean |
| 07:46.40 | f00f- | unless you go the raw TCP proto route, which can become unwieldy |
| 07:46.45 | gambler | f00f-, pass that joint over here |
| 07:46.47 | f00f- | it's what you make of it |
| 07:46.55 | f00f- | takes a puff and passes it |
| 07:47.01 | gambler | well more like RPC |
| 07:47.15 | jasta | what does that have to do with the RPC transport, then? |
| 07:47.51 | gambler | er , they are very tight efficient little messages |
| 07:48.05 | f00f- | you can have fat RPC like CORBA and SOAP and XML-RPC |
| 07:48.15 | f00f- | or you can mnake your own lightwieght REST-based or whatver on top of http |
| 07:48.40 | jasta | gambler: So you're wanting Google to use protocol buffers in place of what, exactly? |
| 07:49.39 | gambler | i dont think in place of anything...there isnt really any subsystem for RPCs say across bluetooth |
| 07:49.40 | jasta | Or are you just wanting them to implement a generic protocol buffers encoding library in Android? I bet something like that has already been written for Java. |
| 07:49.54 | gambler | no im talking about the transport layer |
| 07:50.13 | jasta | gambler: Protocol buffers aren't for RPC either. They're just a data representation. |
| 07:50.38 | gambler | not really you can define Services in proto messages |
| 07:50.47 | gambler | its just that part of the code wasnt released |
| 07:51.02 | gambler | you can see a working implementation of the exact same idea in apache thrift |
| 07:51.02 | jasta | this isn't transpor tlayer by the way. |
| 07:51.06 | jasta | it's application layer. |
| 07:51.15 | gambler | RPC isnt transport? ok i wont argue |
| 07:51.34 | gambler | anyway protobuf is like the IDL....that needs an RPC layer |
| 07:51.54 | jasta | well, as i said, i bet a java library for it exists already. |
| 07:52.00 | jasta | if not, it would be trivial to produce. |
| 07:52.03 | gambler | im honestly not an experienced enough coder to write a robust RPC layer...im a statistician :) |
| 07:52.20 | jasta | protocol buffers as i understand it would not implement an RPC layer, you'd still have to do that yourself. |
| 07:52.53 | gambler | the work flow of protobuf is kind of tied in with RPC |
| 07:53.15 | jasta | RPC is more a logical mechanism to support end-to-end serialization of simple call mechanics of programming languages. |
| 07:53.21 | gambler | thats why you can define Service (SearchMethod) returns (SearchResponse); inside the .proto file |
| 07:53.28 | jasta | It generally has little to do with the encoding of the data, or the transport it goes over. |
| 07:54.04 | jasta | gambler: That still isn't RPC. That's still just data representation. RPC refers to the mechanics that lay atop the encoding. |
| 07:54.22 | jasta | But specifically logic, not data. |
| 07:54.37 | gambler | hmmm i wont argue over semantics with you. anyway we both agree there is only an IDL not an RPC now. |
| 07:54.46 | gambler | Apache thrift has a decent RPC system bundled with it |
| 07:54.49 | jasta | Protocol buffers are akin to XDR. Alone, it would not implement RPC. |
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| 07:55.06 | jasta | but ONC RPC required XDR to implement RPC. Still, XDR was not RPC. |
| 07:55.25 | gambler | riiight |
| 07:55.46 | gambler | aiee |
| 07:55.51 | jasta | I actually don't care that Google has not implemented some new sort of RPC for Android. That seems entirely unnecessary. Most of their and others useful services are REST-ful web services. |
| 07:56.56 | jasta | Usually using XML for data representation. |
| 07:57.00 | gambler | true... i personally find that approach really gross but it does work. |
| 07:57.13 | jasta | And that piece could stand to improve. Android's binary XML format may even be a good alternative there. |
| 07:57.21 | jasta | Or possibly WbXML, which is why my project uses. |
| 07:57.39 | jasta | I think REST-ful web services are quite elegant, actually. It's just that XML for data is not so elegant. |
| 07:58.23 | gambler | i swore off xml along time ago |
| 07:58.42 | gambler | im a pre xml computer person |
| 07:58.44 | jasta | But the semantic argument you tried to avoid is the real argument. The web services themselves don't dictate XML, the implementors do. |
| 07:58.57 | jasta | REST-ful web services can and do exist that do not use XML for data representation. |
| 07:59.02 | jasta | You could even use protocol buffers. |
| 07:59.48 | gambler | ah good point I never thought of that... |
| 07:59.51 | gambler | you could argue even http is a little chunky compared to a binary protocol |
| 07:59.56 | muthu | hey, what's the current device to device protocol in android? |
| 07:59.58 | jasta | Google isn't forcing you to do anything: you're just frustrated by the Way Things Are (TM) :) |
| 08:00.06 | gambler | muthu, not yet implemented |
| 08:00.10 | jasta | muthu: GTalk, basically. But they don't really tell us much yet. |
| 08:00.16 | muthu | ok |
| 08:00.24 | muthu | 2 different answers ;) |
| 08:00.30 | gambler | same answer |
| 08:00.51 | jasta | muthu: Well, the problem is that they kind of laid out that GTalk will be great, but then they never did anything with it, or told us about it. |
| 08:00.59 | jasta | So nobody could actually develop an application to take advantage of their vision |
| 08:01.23 | jasta | Perhaps that is a 1.0 revelation. |
| 08:01.56 | muthu | may b |
| 08:02.54 | jasta | but they have done that with most of Android, really. |
| 08:03.19 | jasta | we don't know anything about their market app, how their services will be integrated, what their providers/services will look like, what intents will be used, ... |
| 08:03.27 | jasta | they laid out all this framework but never showed us what to plug it into. |
| 08:03.39 | gambler | jasta, thats because they dont know those things either |
| 08:03.49 | gambler | its kind of an incremental learning approach |
| 08:04.23 | gambler | i think a big part of their strategy revolves around things like the ADC (see what they come up with, and we'll cherry pick what to integrate) |
| 08:05.43 | jasta | ok, bed time. |
| 08:05.51 | muthu | nite |
| 08:05.56 | gambler | http://blogs.sun.com/jag/resource/Fallacies.html |
| 08:06.01 | gambler | nite |
| 08:07.12 | muthu | gambler: why do we need rpc? |
| 08:07.49 | gambler | muthu, it lets you design your own cheap network protocols |
| 08:08.03 | gambler | without having to go crazy relearning networking concepts |
| 08:08.31 | muthu | what about the existing ones? |
| 08:10.03 | gambler | do something new :) |
| 08:10.12 | muthu | but rpc would be cool though |
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| 11:38.46 | anno^da_ | Someone here ? I got a problem with my LocationsProvider. I'm always getting the response that there should be no providers available. What am I doing wrong? Here is some code snippet: http://rafb.net/p/M6F5Fk16.html |
| 11:43.41 | anno^da_ | got it :/ access permissions |
| 11:43.42 | anno^da_ | :) |
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| 12:41.56 | muthu | yo |
| 12:42.44 | zhobbs_ | yo |
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| 13:23.40 | yakischloba | morning |
| 13:28.33 | michaelnovakjr | morning |
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| 13:39.13 | yakischloba | michaelnovakjr: how many hours do you sleep per night? ;) |
| 13:39.24 | michaelnovakjr | about 6 or so |
| 13:39.48 | yakischloba | ah i figured as much. you ought to get more than that |
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| 13:45.20 | michaelnovakjr | :) |
| 13:45.35 | michaelnovakjr | if i sleep more than 6 hours i end up being more tired. |
| 13:46.36 | yakischloba | i take it you dont participate in any heavy physical exercise |
| 13:54.44 | gambler | i can live on 6 hours sleep for months...but I have occasional bouts of complete narcolepsy |
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| 13:56.15 | gambler | yakischloba, you will have to get used to it if you want to follow in your pa's footsteps... |
| 13:56.23 | gambler | I hear Adderall helps :) |
| 13:56.46 | muthu | 6hrs sleep is good enough |
| 13:56.59 | muthu | less than 6 is a problem |
| 13:57.18 | yakischloba | gambler: yeah I don't think he slept much ;) |
| 13:57.34 | michaelnovakjr | yakischloba: i am a very active person :) |
| 13:57.56 | gambler | michaelnovakjr, tennis? |
| 13:58.04 | michaelnovakjr | soccer and softball |
| 13:58.12 | yakischloba | cool |
| 13:58.33 | yakischloba | i just know when im training a lot i need like 2 extra hours of sleep every night |
| 13:58.48 | yakischloba | my body feels very grumpy otherwise |
| 13:59.02 | gambler | do you watch the show the Wire? |
| 13:59.09 | michaelnovakjr | 6 hours is on average... there are nights i get 8 hours, and on the weekends sometimes it can be like 12 :) |
| 13:59.21 | yakischloba | shit..the laces on my nice shoes are all torn up :( |
| 14:00.27 | yakischloba | gambler: never heard of it |
| 14:00.32 | gambler | my sick issue is that my mind is clearest at night...midnight here and im wasting my best brain time chatting and surfing the net |
| 14:00.52 | gambler | yakischloba, its about cops in baltimore |
| 14:01.06 | gambler | my mental image of you is one of the characters |
| 14:01.30 | yakischloba | lol? what does this image look like |
| 14:02.44 | gambler | hehe dont kill me. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_%22Herc%22_Hauk (different personality ofc) |
| 14:03.01 | gambler | just some huge white guy who works at a natural food store |
| 14:03.09 | yakischloba | haha |
| 14:03.20 | gambler | am i right? |
| 14:03.25 | yakischloba | well |
| 14:03.28 | yakischloba | yes and no |
| 14:03.42 | yakischloba | I am a white guy with a shaved head, though I just shaved it a couple months ago and never had before in my life |
| 14:03.45 | *** part/#android Darkeye115471 (n=Craig@dsl253-084-234.hou1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 14:04.01 | gambler | im so f ing good it sickens me |
| 14:04.10 | gambler | :p |
| 14:04.38 | gambler | so what your not big? u skinny kid |
| 14:04.48 | yakischloba | however, it is optimal to be very thin in cycling. muscle bulk is of little advantage so...I'm not there yet but I'm definitely not as thick as that dude :) |
| 14:05.14 | gambler | ah well if i knew u were a cyclist |
| 14:05.19 | yakischloba | heh |
| 14:05.25 | yakischloba | i must say you were pretty close |
| 14:05.38 | yakischloba | at one point i may have looked a bit more like that |
| 14:06.20 | gambler | your one of the more active channel participants so its easier to profile you, FBI style. I scan every days traffic when i wake up |
| 14:06.42 | gambler | you need to work on your material |
| 14:06.44 | gambler | j/k |
| 14:07.01 | michaelnovakjr | haha |
| 14:07.09 | yakischloba | hah |
| 14:07.13 | gambler | :p |
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| 14:09.45 | yakischloba | gambler: for your viewing enjoyment http://photos-a.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v287/156/4/505927163/n505927163_566112_4546.jpg |
| 14:10.31 | gambler | damn son im trying to eat here |
| 14:10.35 | gambler | (spits out food) |
| 14:10.48 | yakischloba | lol |
| 14:11.20 | yakischloba | thats so funny how you guessed ;) |
| 14:13.04 | gambler | ok michael your turn :p |
| 14:13.07 | yakischloba | haha |
| 14:13.12 | yakischloba | you too gambler |
| 14:13.33 | michaelnovakjr | :) |
| 14:13.49 | michaelnovakjr | i doubt you could profile me accurately :) |
| 14:14.23 | yakischloba | I actually gotta run out the door to get to my interview. I'll be demanding these pics later. |
| 14:14.28 | gambler | challenge ? :p |
| 14:14.35 | gambler | aight |
| 14:14.36 | yakischloba | someone log this for me :) |
| 14:15.05 | michaelnovakjr | :) |
| 14:15.31 | gambler | poor kid...tell him im some gorgeous little 21 yr old who hides behind a male alias |
| 14:16.38 | gambler | michael: you wear glasses? |
| 14:16.50 | gambler | (or contacts) |
| 14:17.06 | michaelnovakjr | glasses |
| 14:17.12 | gambler | +1 gambler |
| 14:17.16 | michaelnovakjr | :) |
| 14:17.20 | gambler | >30 yrs |
| 14:17.27 | gambler | wait |
| 14:17.31 | gambler | >27 yrs |
| 14:17.50 | michaelnovakjr | nope |
| 14:19.28 | gambler | midwesterner? |
| 14:19.35 | michaelnovakjr | nope |
| 14:20.10 | gambler | former public servant? i gotta have some saves here |
| 14:21.30 | michaelnovakjr | i was a volunteer firefighter/emt a while back |
| 14:22.26 | gambler | mmm ok thats more like it...you have a sense of conservativeness to you id say |
| 14:22.34 | gambler | i think overall im grasping at straws here though |
| 14:22.38 | gambler | i just dont have enough information |
| 14:25.24 | gambler | i rate my performance C- |
| 14:25.53 | gambler | poor detective gambler |
| 14:26.15 | michaelnovakjr | :) |
| 14:26.24 | michaelnovakjr | i am pretty conversative you could say |
| 14:26.50 | anno^da_ | re |
| 14:27.03 | anno^da_ | Good evening guys and firefighters. :-) |
| 14:27.31 | gambler | ah shucks :p |
| 14:28.01 | gambler | sup |
| 14:32.49 | jasta | yawn |
| 14:35.41 | jasta | michaelnovakjr: i made a vogue layout (240x320px) |
| 14:56.36 | SanMehat | morning |
| 14:56.54 | jasta | michaelnovakjr: also, my solitaire game is playable, though still ugly as sin. |
| 14:57.41 | anno^da_ | So I'm getting now to the UI :P |
| 14:59.12 | michaelnovakjr | hey jasta |
| 14:59.30 | michaelnovakjr | i just loaded up your vogue skin about 20 minutes ago |
| 14:59.44 | michaelnovakjr | and the latest Solitaire build |
| 14:59.52 | michaelnovakjr | the focus looks good :) |
| 15:03.44 | jasta | it does!? |
| 15:04.02 | jasta | i hate the way it looks, i was going to polish the visuals tonight |
| 15:04.17 | jasta | i didnt touch the card drawing code since i wrote it back in december :) |
| 15:04.22 | michaelnovakjr | nice |
| 15:04.44 | jasta | and i will need to come up with a more general layout so it fits on the vogue |
| 15:05.44 | michaelnovakjr | yea that would be awesome |
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| 15:06.01 | jasta | i will do that today |
| 15:06.05 | jasta | tonight, rather. |
| 15:07.07 | michaelnovakjr | i am gearing up for my major project |
| 15:07.16 | michaelnovakjr | and the game i'm doing :) |
| 15:07.23 | jasta | what majro project? |
| 15:08.01 | jasta | once i finish this solitaire game, i'm going to start plowing throuhg Five code. lots of stuff needs to be rewritten. |
| 15:08.21 | michaelnovakjr | i'm going to write an open implementation of push services into zimbra |
| 15:08.36 | jasta | yikes ;) |
| 15:08.37 | michaelnovakjr | the goal is to write a full zimbra setup for android |
| 15:08.59 | michaelnovakjr | zimbra has push... but its part of their enterprise package |
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| 15:11.38 | jasta | we should write a better home screen for the vogue ;) |
| 15:12.00 | michaelnovakjr | :) |
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| 15:13.30 | gambler | michaelnovakjr, u know about this? http://openchange.org |
| 15:14.22 | michaelnovakjr | gambler: that is interesting |
| 15:14.38 | michaelnovakjr | i wish there was a calendar on android |
| 15:14.58 | michaelnovakjr | this stuff would have been useful for building applications that want to work with system apps like these |
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| 15:31.56 | jasta | michaelnovakjr: agreed. it bothers me that there is this elaborate IPC system to communicate with other apps but then no apps to communicate with :) |
| 15:32.09 | michaelnovakjr | yea |
| 15:32.20 | michaelnovakjr | i love the communication system for apps, its really elegant |
| 15:32.53 | michaelnovakjr | it was really nice integrating the messages app with the dialer and contacts |
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| 15:51.17 | anno^da_ | Why is that button ( http://rafb.net/p/RE5STq47.html ) not alligned to the bottom ? |
| 15:52.03 | jasta | what's layout_gravity=fill_vertical? |
| 15:53.39 | anno^da_ | Grow the vertical size of the object if needed so it completely fills its container. |
| 15:53.52 | anno^da_ | But that should fill_parent do as well right ? |
| 15:54.04 | jasta | anno^da_: isnt that what height=fill_parent does? |
| 15:54.17 | anno^da_ | yeah I thought so |
| 15:54.34 | anno^da_ | just added it because the bottom didnt align to the bottom of the screen |
| 15:54.49 | jasta | anyway, you want androdi:graivty=bottom |
| 15:54.58 | jasta | remove that layout_gravity in the linearlayout |
| 15:55.19 | jasta | also, do not that you can use layout_weight to accomplish a similar effect if you then want to place a widget in that region above the button |
| 15:56.38 | anno^da_ | yeah I removed the attribute again but the bottom is not alligned to the bottom :D |
| 15:57.37 | anno^da_ | I went through all the attributes but hmm well I dont get the point why it doesnt work. |
| 15:58.40 | jasta | i dont have time to confirm, but you can also try android:gravity=bottom in the outer layout |
| 15:58.51 | michaelnovakjr | the layout_gravity=bottom should be on the button |
| 15:59.00 | michaelnovakjr | the linearlayout shouldn't need it |
| 15:59.14 | michaelnovakjr | layout_gravity.... puts the element at that point on the parent layout |
| 15:59.28 | anno^da_ | yeah |
| 16:01.05 | jasta | are you eventually going to put something in that space above the button? |
| 16:02.28 | anno^da_ | I have a view TextViews and TextInput fields alligned to the top |
| 16:02.36 | jasta | thats not the right way to do this |
| 16:02.41 | anno^da_ | ok :) |
| 16:02.45 | jasta | <Linear orient=vertical> |
| 16:02.53 | jasta | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:02.58 | jasta | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:03.02 | jasta | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:03.06 | jasta | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:03.07 | jasta | </Linear> |
| 16:03.27 | anno^da_ | ok and button gravity bottom |
| 16:03.33 | jasta | no, no gravity at all |
| 16:03.45 | anno^da_ | Why is it at the bottom then ? |
| 16:03.53 | jasta | weight allows the widget to grow to take up as much as it can without displacing other widgets |
| 16:04.08 | anno^da_ | ahh |
| 16:04.15 | jasta | so it'll grow to fit the entire parent's height *except* the size needed by the button |
| 16:04.17 | anno^da_ | thanks I get it now |
| 16:04.37 | romainguy | jasta: weight allows the widget to grow to take up as much as it can without displacing other widgets << it does displace other widgets |
| 16:04.41 | jasta | with weight this way, use height=0. |
| 16:04.53 | romainguy | weight is used to fill the remaining space |
| 16:04.57 | jasta | romainguy: displace wasn't the right word to have used, because it obviously does yes. |
| 16:05.22 | romainguy | or if the layout content is bigger than the screen, the weight is used to shrink widgets |
| 16:05.55 | jasta | it is just a simple two-pass measure trick, i know. i just described it wrong ;) |
| 16:06.21 | romainguy | actually sometimes it can be a 3 pass :)) |
| 16:14.23 | *** join/#android Mathiasdm (n=Mathias@vpnd060.ugent.be) |
| 16:21.12 | anno^da_ | Thanks jasta |
| 16:21.16 | anno^da_ | it is working now |
| 16:33.23 | jasta | that's weird that the iphone is only a year old |
| 16:36.52 | michaelnovakjr | yes it is |
| 16:37.45 | gambler | romainguy, did u hear anything more about gtalk/ ipc/ rpc/ plans for next SDK? this would really help my plans |
| 16:38.55 | michaelnovakjr | back, stupid stupid bugs |
| 16:39.11 | michaelnovakjr | and yes, a calendar app would be really nice to include in the sdk |
| 16:40.02 | gambler | its pretty important...i know at least 2 people that threw away iphones because the calendar app supposedly sucks |
| 16:47.18 | jasta | i wish we had some sense of the quality of google's apps... |
| 16:47.29 | jasta | if we could just see one of them in action... ;) |
| 16:47.55 | romainguy | you've seen maps |
| 16:48.07 | michaelnovakjr | calendars i am interested in |
| 16:48.17 | jasta | romainguy: have we really? i expect the launched version to be much different. |
| 16:48.31 | romainguy | did I say it would not be different? |
| 16:48.38 | romainguy | I said you've seen maps |
| 16:48.49 | romainguy | remember how old your SDK is :p |
| 16:48.50 | jasta | i feel like we're seeing a crude version. |
| 16:48.53 | michaelnovakjr | it would be nice to have the intent system setup for calendars and tasks :) |
| 16:48.59 | jasta | same with the browser |
| 16:49.04 | SanMehat | romainguy: fancy seeing you here :) |
| 16:49.04 | michaelnovakjr | yea |
| 16:49.08 | jasta | the browser honestly sort of sucks in M5. |
| 16:49.28 | michaelnovakjr | jasta, the great thing is you can override anything you don't like :) |
| 16:49.31 | romainguy | SanMehat: :) |
| 16:49.57 | jasta | michaelnovakjr: yeah, but there are some applications that will be too painful to re-do better. |
| 16:50.01 | jasta | like maps, or the browser ;) |
| 16:50.24 | michaelnovakjr | well, of course no one said it would be painless |
| 16:51.10 | michaelnovakjr | i'd also like to see the text message app :) |
| 16:51.26 | jasta | really wants to see integration between messaging and the calendar. for example, if i get a text htat says "dinner at 6?", i'd like a way for the messaging app to guess a calendar entry at least starting at 6pm that same night. |
| 16:51.41 | michaelnovakjr | jasta, i had plans to do that |
| 16:51.48 | michaelnovakjr | then i remembered there's no calendar :) |
| 16:51.55 | romainguy | it's called Data Objects in Mac OS X 10.5 ^^ |
| 16:52.57 | gambler | right but what u need is a good solid RPC system to get that message |
| 16:53.01 | gambler | :p |
| 16:53.35 | jasta | gambler: good thing Android has an RPC mechanism for communicating with other android apps. |
| 16:53.41 | romainguy | gambler: which we already have |
| 16:53.43 | jasta | and a very good one at that. |
| 16:54.29 | gambler | how are other apps RPC |
| 16:54.32 | gambler | thats IPC |
| 16:55.24 | gambler | romainguy, so no changes there? i wish your bluetooth engineer hung out here |
| 16:55.28 | jasta | gambler: The binder is both low-level IPC and an RPC mechanism. |
| 16:55.40 | romainguy | gambler: I don't understand your question |
| 16:55.48 | romainguy | we have an IPC and an RPC mechanism already |
| 16:56.04 | jasta | and the binder is also one of my favorite parts about Android, actually. |
| 16:56.25 | gambler | romainguy, awhile back i was wondering about the status of if protocol buffers was going to be integrated into the next SDK |
| 16:56.47 | jasta | gambler: here we go again. this is still a semantic argument for you. you just don't understand what you're talking about. |
| 16:57.15 | romainguy | gambler: there's no protocol buffers API but nothing prevents your app from using them anyway |
| 16:57.37 | romainguy | anyway |
| 16:57.39 | romainguy | time to go to work |
| 16:58.17 | gambler | jasta, just because it can go over any transport doesnt mean the wire protocol isnt important |
| 16:58.26 | gambler | romainguy, ok np |
| 16:58.32 | jasta | the wire protocol is important, and the binder's wire protocol is very, very efficient. |
| 16:58.40 | jasta | the binder's implementation is also very efficient. |
| 16:58.58 | gambler | which part is the binder? |
| 16:59.06 | jasta | changing that protocol to use protocol buffers would offer nothing. it would be a pointless waste of time. |
| 16:59.16 | jasta | gambler: the Binder is Android's IPC and RPC mechanism. |
| 16:59.26 | jasta | It is only for communicating with other Android components, however, internal to the system. |
| 16:59.27 | gambler | what package is it in |
| 16:59.57 | jasta | gambler: It's implementation transcends packages. It has both kernel and userland features, some of it in Java, some of it in C++. |
| 17:00.02 | jasta | and some of it, of course, in C in the kernel. |
| 17:00.26 | gambler | so is it meant for RPC too or just IPC? |
| 17:00.31 | jasta | Most of the heavy lifting is done in the C++ userspace library. |
| 17:00.44 | jasta | gambler: It's ultimately goal is to provide an RPC mechanism over a kernel-assisted IPC transport. |
| 17:00.48 | jasta | ultimate* |
| 17:00.57 | jasta | And it does this beautifully, I might add. |
| 17:01.44 | gambler | ok m googling about it... is that the same thing i used when i wrote my android service? |
| 17:02.16 | jasta | Do realize that RPC and IPC are not siblings. IPC is fit into the network of what components you need to talk to and how (namely, processes). RPC is just a mechanism to affix procedure call semantics to some network. |
| 17:02.33 | *** join/#android yakischloba (n=jake@rnkfoods.com) |
| 17:02.53 | yakischloba | alright |
| 17:02.55 | yakischloba | lets see it |
| 17:02.55 | jasta | For example, files are a form of IPC. Pipes, sockets, etc. All IPC. |
| 17:03.31 | jasta | But none of them are RPC. RPC, however, could be implemented atop any of them. Though it is much more common to do so over sockets for obvious reasons |
| 17:04.56 | gambler | im looking at the AIDL again now actually |
| 17:05.11 | jasta | That said, the Binder is a component to establish a very efficient, somewhat higher level form of IPC. It's scope also includes RPC mechanics. |
| 17:05.43 | jasta | The AIDL is just the language you use to describe your RPC programs. |
| 17:06.10 | jasta | It generates stubs to interact with the Java layer, which is a loose wrapper around the real Binder system. |
| 17:06.40 | jasta | But do realize that any RPC system implicitly needs a network. In Android's case, with the Binder, that network is other processes on the system. Not networked computers on the Internet. |
| 17:06.48 | gambler | one of the nice features we have been discussing in the protobuf group is the ability to support metadata on protobuf types like C# annotations |
| 17:07.11 | jasta | The Binder doesn't need these features. That would be wasteful to implement them. |
| 17:07.58 | jasta | The binder is very lean and mean, and that is an important feature of it. |
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| 17:16.09 | gambler | The doco im reading emphasizes that Parcels are not a general-purpose serialization mechanism. |
| 17:16.55 | gambler | but there is probably heaps of other stuff there that i dont know about |
| 17:17.51 | jasta | and it's not. |
| 17:18.17 | jasta | general-purpose would mean that you could use it for purposes other than the Binder's IPC. |
| 17:18.20 | *** join/#android umdk1d4 (n=umdk1d3@adsl-dynamic-64-79-45-15.bridgeband.net) |
| 17:18.26 | jasta | and while maybe you could, you definitely should not. |
| 17:18.38 | gambler | dude you have way too much self righteousness for one man |
| 17:18.41 | jasta | for example, you wouldn't use a Parcel to serialize your game state and store it to a file. |
| 17:18.51 | gambler | obv thats at the top of the man page |
| 17:19.25 | gambler | you can argue to me about what i want later ... i gotta sleep now |
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| 17:20.00 | jasta | gambler: ok? i didn't mean to offend you. |
| 17:20.04 | jasta | i'm just trying to be very clear. |
| 17:20.29 | yakischloba | gambler is grumpy because his pic wasnt as sexy as mine. |
| 17:20.42 | jasta | AttractiveApe: hola. soon you will be able to play the great game of solitaire on your android phone. |
| 17:20.56 | AttractiveApe | jasta: excellent. |
| 17:20.57 | jasta | AttractiveApe: which will put the feature set of android m5 running on the vogue right up there with Windows Mobile 6! :) |
| 17:21.07 | AttractiveApe | What about Bubble Breaker? |
| 17:21.17 | AttractiveApe | I like Bubble Breaker :/ |
| 17:21.22 | jasta | hehe |
| 17:21.23 | yakischloba | jasta: you ought to make a 'productivity fail' picture involving solitaire on an android phone. |
| 17:21.33 | jasta | AttractiveApe: i like freecell, and there's no decent one for winmo. |
| 17:21.44 | AttractiveApe | jasta: what about hearts? |
| 17:22.01 | jasta | i don't know hearts, but my solitaire game is really an engine for implementing solitaire *games* |
| 17:22.34 | jasta | Klondike is just the first implementation for simplicity sake. The Klondike specific logic is only a couple hundred lines long |
| 17:22.41 | gambler | you have to do alot more than that to offend me |
| 17:22.48 | gambler | yakischloba, just for you before i go to sleep: |
| 17:22.49 | gambler | http://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rufus4rcus2de1.jpg |
| 17:23.07 | yakischloba | gambler: i knew it |
| 17:23.12 | gambler | :) |
| 17:23.18 | jasta | oh boy i hope that's not a picture of you :) |
| 17:24.08 | gambler | dont u wish u was hot like me |
| 17:24.11 | gambler | dontcha? |
| 17:24.15 | gambler | ok...SLEEP |
| 17:25.22 | zhobbs_ | lol...gotta love the nunchucks |
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| 17:28.57 | yakischloba | heh |
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| 17:30.42 | michaelnovakjr | that picture scares me |
| 17:31.17 | michaelnovakjr | they put that on the campaign ads telling kids not to get in cars with people they don't know :) |
| 17:31.46 | yakischloba | heh |
| 17:35.44 | AttractiveApe | jasta: when's your solitare done? |
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| 17:42.08 | jasta | this weekend, i bet |
| 17:42.37 | jasta | it's too ugly and the layout is static now. gotta fix that. |
| 17:46.39 | michaelnovakjr | i really want to see some google apps |
| 17:46.47 | michaelnovakjr | the basics that is |
| 17:47.10 | jasta | well keep wanting |
| 17:47.23 | michaelnovakjr | i don't we'll see them until launch |
| 17:47.24 | jasta | you probably wont see those until you waltz into a sprint/t-mobile store and buy one :) |
| 17:47.30 | michaelnovakjr | haha |
| 17:47.55 | jasta | is sad that the supporting carriers in the US are the two sucky ones that nobody likes |
| 17:48.21 | jasta | it's also pretty bad for business. android selling high-end pricey handsets at the two cheapest US carriers. hmmmmmm ;) |
| 17:48.33 | jasta | everyone i know that went with t-mobile or sprint did so solely because it's cheap. |
| 17:49.15 | michaelnovakjr | i'm writing a calendar app |
| 17:49.34 | michaelnovakjr | it bothers me this sort of stuff is not there |
| 17:51.07 | jasta | dude, you don't want to spend too much time on this type of stuff :) |
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| 17:51.25 | jasta | the apps you write will just get crushed in a few months. |
| 17:52.14 | michaelnovakjr | anything at this point is a waste of time |
| 17:53.21 | jasta | well, that's not entirely true. |
| 17:53.34 | jasta | for example, id oubt very much that my solitaire game will be deprecated by the next SDK |
| 17:53.41 | michaelnovakjr | true |
| 17:53.42 | jasta | it should be trivial to update it, too |
| 17:53.55 | jasta | i had a whole newsreader back on M3, and i updated it to M5 (poorly) in just an hour |
| 17:54.32 | michaelnovakjr | i want them to include the fundamental apps, or at least the connections into them |
| 17:54.32 | jasta | also, next up i plan to revisit Five development, but just taking care of stuff that i know has nothing to do with Android's design. |
| 17:54.48 | jasta | for example, my cache logic is not really implemented, and my playlist service API is crude and needs a lot of work |
| 17:54.58 | jasta | michaelnovakjr: yeah, but they won't :) |
| 17:55.15 | michaelnovakjr | and that is a terrible approach |
| 17:55.19 | jasta | no matter what, there is going to be significant work to do once handsets launch. even for the folks with the private SDKs that's true. |
| 17:55.50 | michaelnovakjr | the idea is to create a seamless feel on the phone, with apps talking to each other... |
| 17:56.08 | jasta | yeah, and that ecosystem just won't exist now ;) |
| 17:56.22 | jasta | so deal with it hehe |
| 17:57.17 | michaelnovakjr | yea, it just sucks |
| 17:57.29 | jasta | i'm having a fine time hacking together simple little apps, so don't harsh my buzz :) |
| 17:57.58 | michaelnovakjr | :) i am too |
| 17:58.34 | jasta | realiastically, writing good games is the best thing we can do, since the majority of game logic will be independent of the SDK changes |
| 17:58.38 | jasta | realistically* |
| 17:59.00 | michaelnovakjr | yea |
| 18:07.01 | jasta | but, we're doing a good thing contributing so much open code to the community at this stage, so i'm happy to keep moving with that. |
| 18:07.10 | jasta | if you really want to write a calendar app i won't stop you :) |
| 18:07.30 | jasta | although really, if you're itching for a project, a terminal would be great :) |
| 18:07.38 | jasta | esp since those kaiser folks have a qwerty keyboard |
| 18:07.59 | *** join/#android chab7 (n=kvirc@212.92.4.114) |
| 18:08.17 | jasta | or an app manager for all our stuff would also be nice |
| 18:08.18 | chab7 | hi |
| 18:08.36 | jasta | chab7: hello |
| 18:09.05 | michaelnovakjr | yea jasta, i was playing with the app manager idea agin |
| 18:16.03 | jasta | or you could write a bomberman clone :) |
| 18:16.10 | jasta | with the little android guy, that woudl be great |
| 18:16.30 | ttuttle | Nonono you can't blow up androids! |
| 18:16.33 | ttuttle | They're too cute! |
| 18:16.52 | jasta | bomberman would be hard to play on a touch screen tho |
| 18:17.11 | ttuttle | Eh, it'll work. |
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| 18:23.28 | michaelnovakjr | woohoo, Messages has zero downloads! |
| 18:24.36 | jasta | i woudlnt' expect much :) |
| 18:25.19 | michaelnovakjr | :) |
| 18:26.12 | jasta | you've got to quit versioning the apks btw :) |
| 18:27.31 | michaelnovakjr | i tried, but it wouldn't let me upload the file with that name again |
| 18:28.13 | michaelnovakjr | nevermind |
| 18:28.15 | jasta | well then delete the old download |
| 18:28.22 | michaelnovakjr | i just saw that |
| 18:28.33 | michaelnovakjr | they don't exactly make the delete button very easy to see :) |
| 18:28.34 | jasta | the old one was downloaded once :) |
| 18:28.41 | jasta | well, and rightfully so |
| 18:28.51 | jasta | normal projects should not ever delete versions. |
| 18:30.28 | michaelnovakjr | all better |
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| 18:35.10 | jasta | i'm gonna go get a haircut |
| 18:35.12 | erus` | open source porn |
| 18:35.17 | erus` | thats what the world needs |
| 18:35.18 | jasta | my hair is out of control |
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| 19:05.24 | jasta_ | hmm. |
| 19:05.42 | jasta_ | i should irc while they cut my hair. that would be awesome. |
| 19:06.44 | *** join/#android umdk1d3 (n=umdk1d3@adsl-dynamic-64-79-45-15.bridgeband.net) |
| 19:07.01 | yakischloba | irc everywhere. |
| 19:07.05 | AttractiveApe | That would be obsessive, and nerdy. |
| 19:07.16 | yakischloba | aka suit jasta quite well ;) |
| 19:07.26 | AttractiveApe | Worse, would be to tweet about it |
| 19:07.34 | AttractiveApe | OMG She's working on my bangs! |
| 19:07.43 | michaelnovakjr | :) |
| 19:07.57 | michaelnovakjr | jasta, i'm going to write up the terminal apk |
| 19:11.15 | neurosys | Are there any android phones out yet? |
| 19:12.05 | michaelnovakjr | nope |
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| 19:36.14 | jasta | michaelnovakjr: just note that you should create a proper terminal |
| 19:36.24 | michaelnovakjr | that's my plan |
| 19:36.34 | jasta | as in, you will need a JNI layer, and you should support VT100 fully. |
| 19:36.45 | jasta | there are terminal view widgets for Android already, one of which I think does support VT100 cleanly |
| 19:36.58 | michaelnovakjr | sweet |
| 19:37.04 | jasta | i can help you with the JNI layer. in fact, i could just write that library for you. |
| 19:37.52 | michaelnovakjr | sweet |
| 19:37.54 | jasta | michaelnovakjr: all our apps combined will just so happen to exploit a lot of interesting functionality. they can almost serve as small examples in themselves. |
| 19:38.03 | dmoffett | Along the lines of the rotary phone. How many of you have used a real VT100? |
| 19:38.17 | michaelnovakjr | me |
| 19:38.31 | jasta | not me, of course. it was invented before i was born. |
| 19:38.45 | yakischloba | same here. |
| 19:39.01 | michaelnovakjr | i like old school technology |
| 19:39.12 | michaelnovakjr | its interesting |
| 19:39.33 | dmoffett | so were a lot of things, what is your point? You don't use thing invented before you were born? |
| 19:39.56 | zhobbs_ | I don't use cars for that reason |
| 19:40.09 | jasta | dmoffett: it was also deprecated before i was born. |
| 19:40.17 | zhobbs_ | ahhh |
| 19:40.22 | michaelnovakjr | use cares? |
| 19:40.26 | yakischloba | lol |
| 19:40.26 | michaelnovakjr | cars? |
| 19:40.34 | michaelnovakjr | haha |
| 19:40.51 | yakischloba | yeah. Cars will be deprecated soon (hopefully) |
| 19:41.08 | dmoffett | phones, cell phones, computers, micro chips. |
| 19:41.10 | zhobbs_ | or just improved |
| 19:41.41 | jasta | dmoffett: you just didn't let me finish my thought :) |
| 19:41.46 | dmoffett | lol |
| 19:41.54 | jasta | i'm at work, so i switch off IRC frequently :) |
| 19:42.26 | yakischloba | Yeah. How many of us puts IRC in the background when someone walks behind us? ;) |
| 19:42.47 | michaelnovakjr | i just leave it up :) |
| 19:43.07 | jasta | i usually have 4 separate desktop workspaces... |
| 19:43.14 | yakischloba | I frequently leave it up these days. People got bored of peeking at what I was doing a long time ago. |
| 19:43.15 | jasta | 1 of which contains stuff i'm not supposed to be doing at work |
| 19:43.18 | jasta | 3 of which contain stuff i am :) |
| 19:43.22 | jasta | i switch anytime somebody walks by |
| 19:43.41 | yakischloba | Unfortunately my desk is right next to the front door of the office. |
| 19:43.52 | yakischloba | so someone walks by every minute or so |
| 19:44.55 | dmoffett | It's really nice to work from home. :-) |
| 19:45.03 | jasta | my desk is wedged back where both owners of the company walk by a lot |
| 19:45.05 | jasta | i still switch off ir c;) |
| 19:45.29 | jasta | one of my friends used to work at a naval base as an intern doing some lame IT work |
| 19:46.00 | jasta | about a few months in he started IRCing at work, and 3 days later he was escorted off the premises by two armed guards and fired. |
| 19:46.09 | michaelnovakjr | damn |
| 19:46.59 | yakischloba | ouch. |
| 19:47.15 | yakischloba | Well, I waited a few years to start doing stuff like IRC so :) |
| 19:47.30 | jasta | michaelnovakjr: i'm very excited about a terminal apk. if you start that commit early so i can take a look :) |
| 19:47.37 | jasta | i'll definitely help out with that. |
| 19:47.44 | michaelnovakjr | cool |
| 19:47.52 | michaelnovakjr | i'll probably start looking at it tonight |
| 19:48.00 | jasta | google around for that VT100 terminal view, i know it's somewhere... |
| 19:48.13 | jasta | i think someone wrote an SSH client for Android or something, which had a VT100 terminal view. |
| 19:48.26 | michaelnovakjr | cool |
| 19:48.29 | jasta | i remember finding two, though. one which was very crude and barely worked and another which was some 3rd party java library which was quite robust |
| 20:00.30 | michaelnovakjr | jasta, i think i found what you were talking about |
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| 20:15.45 | jasta | ? |
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| 20:18.52 | AttractiveApe | michaelnovakjr: how are you rebooting the vogue? |
| 20:18.58 | AttractiveApe | Via the soft reset? |
| 20:19.16 | michaelnovakjr | soft reset? |
| 20:19.31 | AttractiveApe | reset button next two the mini usb port? |
| 20:19.37 | AttractiveApe | to* |
| 20:19.52 | michaelnovakjr | oh yea |
| 20:20.03 | AttractiveApe | we need a better way :p |
| 20:20.07 | michaelnovakjr | yea |
| 20:20.32 | jasta | AttractiveApe: there's something broken that prevents real shutdown |
| 20:20.50 | michaelnovakjr | AttractiveApe: have you tried out the Messages app? |
| 20:21.01 | AttractiveApe | jasta: ah. |
| 20:21.06 | AttractiveApe | michaelnovakjr: not yet. |
| 20:21.09 | AttractiveApe | Gonna download it soonish. |
| 20:21.21 | michaelnovakjr | cool |
| 20:22.46 | jasta | AttractiveApe: something not right in the kernel, i mean |
| 20:23.02 | AttractiveApe | yeah, figured that's what you meant. |
| 20:31.39 | jasta | i wonder what percentage of failblog is photoshopped... |
| 20:31.44 | jasta | probably at least 50 |
| 20:37.31 | jasta | http://failblog.org/2008/02/08/cnn-physics-fail/ -- i believe that one, though :) |
| 20:38.16 | yakischloba | haha |
| 20:38.24 | jasta | Physical Fail :) |
| 20:39.32 | michaelnovakjr | yea |
| 20:41.00 | jasta | Physics, I meant ;) |
| 20:41.00 | jasta | I fail |
| 20:41.53 | jasta | i love listening to the mainstream media try to report on science news |
| 20:42.06 | jasta | it's rare that they don't say at least 1 thing that is simply false. |
| 20:49.04 | jasta | michaelnovakjr: |
| 20:49.12 | michaelnovakjr | howdy |
| 20:49.14 | jasta | http://www.jcraft.com/jcterm/ |
| 20:49.23 | jasta | that is where the vt100 emulator i was referring to came from |
| 20:49.27 | jasta | in a project called connectbot on android |
| 20:50.15 | michaelnovakjr | yea i found connectbot |
| 20:50.46 | jasta | it's nicely abstracted to. should be easy to plug into this code. |
| 20:50.57 | michaelnovakjr | sweet |
| 20:51.02 | jasta | just do note that until you allocate a terminal, you DON'T have one. |
| 20:52.19 | jasta | so the vt100 emulator won't do shit until you do. likewise, bash won't work like you expect, etc. |
| 20:53.04 | michaelnovakjr | good point |
| 20:54.10 | jasta | a lot of folks think a terminal is implicit, because that's the only way they've ever interactively explored a shell |
| 20:54.39 | jasta | but it's not. it means something significant to have one allocated and connected to a program's input and output streams. |
| 20:54.55 | michaelnovakjr | definitely |
| 20:55.03 | jasta | most UNIX programs will behave differently once they detect one as well. |
| 20:58.52 | jasta | you could still get started on the project without that though, just don't be surprised when firing up bash doesn't do what you expect :) |
| 20:59.06 | michaelnovakjr | cool :) |
| 20:59.38 | jasta | bash will act like you're a shell script. you'll need to send compile lines and flush them before it will actually do anything. there won't be a prompt, either. |
| 20:59.51 | jasta | arrow keys of course will do nothing |
| 21:00.04 | jasta | instead they'll just send gibberish to bash it can't parse |
| 21:00.29 | jasta | (because arrow keys are a VT100/ANSI escape code, and they are gibberish outside that context) |
| 21:00.40 | michaelnovakjr | yea |
| 21:01.13 | jasta | anyway, i'm excited to work on this project too. i've got all night to hack, so i'll look at implementing that JNI layer for you. |
| 21:01.17 | jasta | but you could stil start with the basic logic |
| 21:01.18 | jasta | and UI |
| 21:01.33 | michaelnovakjr | cool, i'll be around coding tonight as well |
| 21:01.40 | jasta | basically, adapting connectbot's code to use a local process for its input/output streams. |
| 21:01.46 | michaelnovakjr | yea |
| 21:03.30 | jasta | this project should be pretty easy, since we have that jcterm code :) |
| 21:03.54 | michaelnovakjr | yea, and it will be a great addition too |
| 21:04.38 | jasta | it'll just be a real bitch to use on the vogue ;) |
| 21:05.41 | michaelnovakjr | yea, with the lame software keyboard |
| 21:05.51 | jasta | kaiser should be nice tho |
| 21:05.59 | michaelnovakjr | yea |
| 21:12.06 | michaelnovakjr | i'll be back in a bit |
| 21:12.21 | jasta_ | im glad i got that vogue skin up. that will make fixing my solitaire app much easier :) |
| 21:12.49 | michaelnovakjr | yea, i loaded it up on my computer |
| 21:14.53 | jasta_ | theyre easier than i expected to make :) |
| 21:16.42 | jasta | michaelnovakjr: i wonder if we could find any more non-trivial apps to try on the vogue |
| 21:24.19 | *** join/#android duey (n=duey@203-190-208-12.innovationwaikato.co.nz) |
| 21:26.53 | AttractiveApe | jasta: could write something similar to the $1000 jewel app on the iphone. |
| 21:29.11 | jasta | michaelnovakjr: hmm, i just loaded handyCalc. that's slick looking for a calculator. |
| 21:32.13 | jasta | i'm a bit surprised that didn't win after looking at it. |
| 21:32.23 | jasta | it's rough around the edges, but i imagine most of the winners were |
| 21:32.43 | jasta | that guy has a solid foundation to be able to take on TI for high maths calculators |
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| 21:35.13 | jasta | i wonder if google code has a policy on expiring projects that don't upload code |
| 21:35.20 | jasta | there are lots of android projects like that |
| 21:36.22 | f00f- | lol, android just started :P |
| 21:36.35 | f00f- | i 've had stuff on sourceforge for years, and they haven't deleted it |
| 21:37.33 | *** join/#android AstainZZZZZZ (n=Administ@unaffiliated/astainhellbring) |
| 21:39.03 | jasta | it just pollutes searches and stuff. at least they should put a tag line up so you can quickly judge overall activity |
| 21:40.13 | f00f- | yeah would be good |
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| 22:07.55 | dmoffett_ | HandyCalc looks very slick. Imo it should have won something. |
| 22:09.42 | duey | yeah |
| 22:19.25 | *** join/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@c-69-244-215-210.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 22:19.31 | Dougie187 | good evening |
| 22:20.01 | yakischloba | hi Dougie187 |
| 22:20.19 | Dougie187 | hows it going? |
| 22:20.39 | yakischloba | ah good. had my interview this morning. waiting to hear ;) |
| 22:22.23 | jasta | where's this job at? |
| 22:23.52 | yakischloba | tukwila :/ |
| 22:25.04 | jasta | small company? |
| 22:25.06 | yakischloba | not very excited about that part but..its worth it |
| 22:25.27 | Dougie187 | tukwila? |
| 22:25.28 | Dougie187 | wtf is that? |
| 22:25.48 | yakischloba | Uhm. I don't really have a good idea of their size. |
| 22:25.58 | yakischloba | Dougie187: seattle |
| 22:26.03 | Dougie187 | what do they do? |
| 22:26.09 | yakischloba | data center |
| 22:26.21 | Dougie187 | so you manage everyones backups? |
| 22:26.22 | Dougie187 | or what? |
| 22:27.32 | yakischloba | I would be doing a bunch of things, i believe. They provide hosting services as well, not just colo style stuff |
| 22:31.08 | Dougie187 | well thats cool. |
| 22:31.10 | Dougie187 | good luck with that. |
| 22:31.15 | Dougie187 | Do you guys hang out ever (you and jasta?) |
| 22:32.14 | yakischloba | Not yet. I'm waiting for romain's bid on me delivering a slap in the face to jasta ;) |
| 22:34.12 | yakischloba | we do live and work only a few miles apart though. i suppose it'll happen eventually. |
| 22:37.29 | jasta | I don't think you want to do that. |
| 22:37.49 | jasta | Slap me that is. |
| 22:38.05 | yakischloba | :) |
| 22:38.13 | jasta | Romain couldn't pay you well enough to make it worth it :) |
| 22:38.25 | yakischloba | heh |
| 22:38.29 | yakischloba | thats more like it |
| 22:38.33 | jasta | I enjoy pranks, and I take everything way too far. Just food for thought :) |
| 22:40.21 | *** join/#android dang`r`us (n=eismann@versteht.es) |
| 22:40.52 | jasta | hehe, there are a lot of tutorials being posted lately by this guy on the android-dev list... |
| 22:41.09 | jasta | android engineers are coming out of the woodwork to demonstrate why the tutorials are poor practice and should not be followed hehe |
| 22:41.18 | romainguy_ | sorry :)) |
| 22:41.38 | romainguy_ | the biggest problem is that the guy seems to have a lot of experience with Swing and tries to relate everything to Swing |
| 22:41.39 | jasta | it's just funny. there really are a lot of terrible tutorials folks have posted on android |
| 22:41.52 | jasta | shit that even makes basic mistakes with the Java language. nothing to do with android at all. |
| 22:42.36 | jasta | hopefully none of my examples are like that hehe |
| 22:46.09 | *** part/#android dang`r`us (n=eismann@versteht.es) |
| 22:50.02 | jasta | romainguy_: btw, http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=785 |
| 22:50.08 | jasta | that's my bug regarding HttpClient4. |
| 22:50.26 | jasta | i'm really crossing my fingers that somebody looks at that nd just simply tests it to confirm it works right. |
| 22:51.06 | *** join/#android LanceHaig (n=lanceh@foresight/member/lhaig) |
| 22:52.18 | f00f- | this is waht they get for using blocking I/O |
| 22:54.38 | jasta | it's just a bug as far as i'm concerned. |
| 22:54.45 | jasta | not inherently a problem with blocking I/O |
| 22:55.33 | jasta | if you work through the layers, you find that the platform doesn't *really* have blocking I/O. it's just a flow control feature :) |
| 23:00.58 | jasta | the problem in this case, though, i was unable to confirm that the bug was in HttpClient or HttpCore. It may have been in Harmony. My tests with Sun's JRE and older HttpClient/HttpCore versions worked as I expected. |
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| 23:01.08 | jasta | My test with android.jar did not. So I'm not sure... |
| 23:01.50 | jasta | if it is with harmony, it's important that an engineer take a look at what's going on of course. or maybe the bug has just been fixed and there's no need to worry about where it was |
| 23:07.08 | tomgibara | romainguy_: Is there going to be an application-accessible 'text entry' API added for implementing on-screen keyboards? |
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| 23:23.28 | michaelnovakjr__ | howdy |
| 23:26.19 | jasta | hi |
| 23:26.21 | jasta | im about to head home |
| 23:26.32 | Dougie187 | i just got another d key jasta. |
| 23:26.32 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 23:26.33 | michaelnovakjr__ | cool |
| 23:26.35 | Dougie187 | i get one every time. |
| 23:26.45 | Dougie187 | but they take me forever to do. |
| 23:26.52 | jasta | so, i have a question for you guys |
| 23:27.00 | jasta | my company wants to do video conferencing between our 4 offices |
| 23:27.14 | Dougie187 | polycom? |
| 23:27.16 | jasta | we looked at the obvious approach just having some company come in and give us a bid to do it |
| 23:27.20 | jasta | and it was just stupidly expensive |
| 23:27.34 | michaelnovakjr__ | oh yea, i'm in webcasting at work.... its expensive :) |
| 23:27.41 | jasta | is there something a bit more reasonable that's basically just a sound station/phone + video hardware + tv + speakers? |
| 23:27.56 | jasta | with some reasonable software you can use to do document sharing and stuff too? |
| 23:28.43 | michaelnovakjr__ | one sec... http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobatconnectpro/?promoid=BPDEA |
| 23:28.54 | michaelnovakjr__ | have you seen that.... are you looking for something like that? |
| 23:29.02 | jasta | not sure, let me look |
| 23:29.18 | jasta | we do want real video conferencing too though |
| 23:29.27 | jasta | perhaps with the ability to switch between document sharing and video... |
| 23:29.54 | michaelnovakjr__ | i read about it a few weeks ago... it seemed like that was possible |
| 23:30.06 | michaelnovakjr__ | its certainly going to be competition for my company |
| 23:30.11 | jasta | and we don't want it person-to-person |
| 23:30.19 | jasta | we want it between conference rooms |
| 23:30.23 | jasta | for multiple groups to connect |
| 23:30.32 | jasta | and we want to be able to connect all the offices together in a single conference |
| 23:44.41 | *** join/#android zhobbs (n=zach@132.245.8.67.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 23:44.49 | zhobbs | http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/08/07/tunewiki-androids-iphone-like-media-player-that-may-become-the-platforms-standard/ |
| 23:46.04 | jasta | you copied the iPhone interface even more :) |
| 23:46.21 | jasta | it's hard to distinguish now ;) |
| 23:46.28 | michaelnovakjr__ | is it possible to turn off lyrics? |
| 23:49.24 | jasta | seeing this makes me feel a bit more licensed to copy more of the iphone interface :) |
| 23:49.51 | michaelnovakjr__ | i don't see what is so great about the iphone interface |
| 23:50.07 | michaelnovakjr__ | i don't see it as revolutionary |
| 23:50.21 | jasta | i think it's very nice, personally :) |
| 23:50.28 | jasta | and i would be hard pressed to do better. |
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| 23:51.52 | michaelnovakjr__ | android should have its own interface standards |
| 23:52.17 | jasta | yeah, but it doesn't. |
| 23:52.18 | jasta | ;) |
| 23:52.52 | jasta | until we see what google came up with for some ideas... |
| 23:52.57 | jasta | or until they release a style guideline, ... |
| 23:53.07 | michaelnovakjr__ | true |
| 23:53.10 | jasta | i honestly don't think they will though. google apparently really sucks at cooperating with a larger community ;) |
| 23:54.11 | michaelnovakjr__ | unfortunately |
| 23:54.53 | jasta | anyway, i'm heading home. |
| 23:55.06 | jasta | zhobbs: the new UI looks really nice btw. nice touch. |
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