| 00:18.04 | *** join/#android michaelnovakjr__ (n=mnovak@ool-18ba6e83.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 00:18.13 | michaelnovakjr__ | howdy |
| 00:22.46 | chomchom | howdy |
| 00:23.08 | michaelnovakjr__ | whats up |
| 00:23.42 | chomchom | Nothing but the rent my man. |
| 00:23.48 | chomchom | You? |
| 00:23.59 | michaelnovakjr__ | doing some work |
| 00:24.21 | chomchom | interesting? |
| 00:24.59 | michaelnovakjr__ | eh, nothing android related |
| 00:25.32 | chomchom | Java related? |
| 00:26.26 | michaelnovakjr__ | nopre |
| 00:26.31 | michaelnovakjr__ | c++ |
| 00:26.41 | chomchom | anything interesting there then? |
| 00:26.59 | chomchom | C++ is where all the cool kids hang |
| 00:27.03 | michaelnovakjr__ | i'm writing a compiler |
| 00:27.25 | gambler | in C++? |
| 00:27.28 | *** join/#android meshuga (i=meshuga@c-67-183-112-152.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 00:27.31 | chomchom | Hardcore man, are you defining a language? |
| 00:27.38 | chomchom | Or parsing something? |
| 00:28.01 | sayers | I wrote a language once |
| 00:28.07 | michaelnovakjr__ | writing a C/C++ compiler |
| 00:28.29 | michaelnovakjr__ | not for any other purpose than to learn from writing one |
| 00:28.34 | chomchom | That would be pretty cool. A worthy hard graft. |
| 00:28.35 | sayers | it was called engCode |
| 00:29.00 | michaelnovakjr__ | sayers: i was thinking of writing a language, i still might... |
| 00:29.14 | sayers | michaelnovakjr__, I was joking though :) |
| 00:29.45 | gambler | what kind of language |
| 00:30.21 | michaelnovakjr__ | no idea, its a far off idea :) |
| 00:30.32 | chomchom | Have you seen this, it could give you some good ideas: http://99-bottles-of-beer.net/abc.html |
| 00:31.15 | chomchom | At work my friend has been running coding Dojos, at the last one we all picked an obscure language and then wrote a simple game in 2hours. |
| 00:31.19 | chomchom | Was fun |
| 00:31.27 | chomchom | We picked our languages from that list |
| 00:31.35 | gambler | michaelnovakjr__, I take it u know about ANTLR? |
| 00:32.37 | michaelnovakjr__ | yea, i'm not using it though |
| 00:33.09 | *** join/#android meshuga (i=meshuga@c-67-183-112-152.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 00:33.09 | gambler | chomchom, shouldnt you should be picking language paradigms instead of languages |
| 00:33.13 | gambler | aaaigh |
| 00:33.23 | gambler | s/ you should /should |
| 00:33.31 | chomchom | I don't know, should I? |
| 00:33.53 | gambler | chomchom, so man languages are so similiar imo |
| 00:34.03 | chomchom | Yes |
| 00:34.09 | sayers | and if they are different |
| 00:34.12 | sayers | they are silly :D |
| 00:34.24 | gambler | i seem to be having some seriously typing illiteracy again today. Im hoping this is my wireless keyboard. |
| 00:34.52 | chomchom | Thats true, we just picked them and then ran with what we knew. If you don't know then using the language is the best way to learn |
| 00:34.57 | michaelnovakjr__ | is your bling getting in the way gambler? |
| 00:35.15 | gambler | damn u perceptive dog |
| 00:35.27 | chomchom | Its nice using a language you don't know and then identifying th ecommon bits |
| 00:35.31 | gambler | my gun is on my desk too |
| 00:35.38 | michaelnovakjr__ | i bet |
| 00:35.42 | chomchom | and then getting a moment of clarity when you learn a new bit |
| 00:35.45 | sayers | gambler, what kind :D ? |
| 00:37.17 | gambler | steyr M9 |
| 00:37.43 | gambler | its mostly a fashion / coffee table accessory |
| 00:38.00 | michaelnovakjr__ | gambler: is a straight up gansta |
| 00:38.11 | michaelnovakjr__ | shakes in my boots |
| 00:39.45 | chomchom | Well we are a nice mixing of cultures from around the world joint in progging |
| 00:39.49 | chomchom | I'm straight up scottish |
| 00:39.55 | chomchom | With my cuppa tea |
| 00:40.03 | chomchom | and my slippers |
| 00:40.14 | chomchom | ...so cool man |
| 00:40.32 | michaelnovakjr__ | gambler: i picture the movie malibu's most wanted |
| 00:41.02 | gambler | haha |
| 00:41.29 | *** join/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@c-69-244-215-210.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 00:41.49 | Dougie187 | good evening everyone |
| 00:42.18 | chomchom | good of the eve |
| 00:42.20 | michaelnovakjr__ | Dougie187: i was just saying how gambler reminds me of Malibu's most wanted |
| 00:42.50 | Dougie187 | Gambler? |
| 00:43.05 | michaelnovakjr__ | gambler: reveal yourself |
| 00:43.16 | Dougie187 | whats Malibu's most wanted? |
| 00:43.24 | gambler | quietly throws some dice in the corner |
| 00:43.35 | gambler | whats with the all the ad hominem today michaelnovakjr__ ? |
| 00:44.00 | michaelnovakjr__ | :) |
| 00:44.06 | Dougie187 | you play much halo lately? |
| 00:44.11 | Dougie187 | or just the GTA3? |
| 00:44.13 | Dougie187 | i mean 4 |
| 00:44.50 | michaelnovakjr__ | just some gta4 recently |
| 00:45.01 | Dougie187 | well a little while ago. |
| 00:45.11 | Dougie187 | its been like a week at least since we discussed it last. |
| 00:45.42 | Dougie187 | you still playing it though? |
| 00:45.47 | michaelnovakjr__ | yea |
| 00:45.52 | Dougie187 | nm about what i was saying. lol |
| 00:46.02 | Dougie187 | i just re-read what you said and realized i read it wrong to begin with. |
| 00:46.26 | Dougie187 | I haven't even touched my xbox in a while. |
| 00:46.32 | Dougie187 | have you tried any of the new arcade games? |
| 00:46.38 | Dougie187 | like Geometry wars 2? |
| 00:47.39 | michaelnovakjr__ | nope |
| 00:47.42 | Dougie187 | debian is 15 today? |
| 00:47.45 | michaelnovakjr__ | i wrote up a small one |
| 00:49.53 | Dougie187 | yahoo zimbra will be accessible to ubuntu users? |
| 00:50.22 | michaelnovakjr__ | ? |
| 00:50.29 | Dougie187 | http://www.ubuntu.com/news/zimbra-desktop |
| 00:50.36 | michaelnovakjr__ | i run a zimbra server |
| 00:51.11 | michaelnovakjr__ | oh yea, their desktop client app |
| 00:51.25 | michaelnovakjr__ | zimbra desktop is the email app for the desktop |
| 00:52.07 | Dougie187 | thats cool. |
| 00:52.21 | Dougie187 | i didnt know zimbra was a yahoo product. |
| 00:54.03 | michaelnovakjr__ | yahoo bought them |
| 00:54.16 | Dougie187 | was that long ago? |
| 00:54.27 | michaelnovakjr__ | not too long ago |
| 00:54.36 | Dougie187 | well thats cool. |
| 00:55.00 | michaelnovakjr__ | yea, i use it for my email.... the server is nice |
| 00:55.07 | michaelnovakjr__ | i have it running on CentOS, your favorite OS |
| 00:55.21 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 00:55.35 | Dougie187 | do you use the desktop client too? |
| 00:55.52 | chomchom | I found CentOS too hard to use as a server |
| 00:56.02 | chomchom | I recently switched to umbuntu |
| 00:56.08 | chomchom | its really nice and easy |
| 00:56.24 | michaelnovakjr__ | chomchom: CentOS === RedHat |
| 00:56.36 | michaelnovakjr__ | its not difficult... its Linux :) |
| 00:56.43 | gambler | chomchom, just install the EPEL packages |
| 00:56.51 | Dougie187 | chomchom centos sucks. |
| 00:56.53 | Dougie187 | its junk. |
| 00:57.08 | michaelnovakjr__ | Dougie187: that is a desktop perspective |
| 00:57.17 | michaelnovakjr__ | as a desktop Ubuntu is the best |
| 00:57.20 | chomchom | yeah I was using it on a vps |
| 00:57.26 | Dougie187 | true. i can't really comment on the comparison of ubuntu server vs. centos server |
| 00:57.37 | Dougie187 | though I wouldn't think they would be much different. |
| 00:57.39 | Dougie187 | just how you install things. |
| 00:57.47 | Dougie187 | but servers are mostly command line anyways. |
| 00:57.52 | michaelnovakjr__ | Dougie187: you use a server and desktop very differently |
| 00:57.59 | ttuttle | Dougie187: Not Windows Server! |
| 00:57.59 | michaelnovakjr__ | Dougie187: exactly |
| 00:58.08 | Dougie187 | lol well.. windows servers are junk. |
| 00:58.11 | ttuttle | Dougie187: Yeah I know. |
| 00:58.12 | Dougie187 | that is one thing you can compare. |
| 00:58.19 | chomchom | yeah I think I just go for an easy life, and umbuntu has a lot of fan boy tutorials that I can just lazily walk through for any config |
| 00:58.20 | michaelnovakjr__ | Dougie187: I have one of those too :) |
| 00:58.32 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 00:58.38 | Dougie187 | thats what i admin at work now-a-days |
| 00:58.39 | michaelnovakjr__ | my file server is a windows server |
| 00:58.44 | Dougie187 | why? |
| 00:58.58 | michaelnovakjr__ | i have quite a few windows machines.... and its really easy :) |
| 00:59.09 | michaelnovakjr__ | and Ubuntu picks them up easy as well as macs |
| 00:59.32 | michaelnovakjr__ | it hasn't given me any issues |
| 00:59.49 | michaelnovakjr__ | i use FreeBSD for my code repository servers |
| 01:00.32 | Dougie187 | thats one thing most linux things try to do. |
| 01:00.37 | Dougie187 | make it easier for people who use windows. |
| 01:00.44 | Dougie187 | where as MS couldnt care less. |
| 01:00.51 | Dougie187 | a great example is stupid silverlight. |
| 01:01.06 | *** join/#android meshuga (i=meshuga@c-67-183-112-152.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 01:01.58 | Dougie187 | lol did you know silverlight is supposed to be cross-platform. |
| 01:02.52 | michaelnovakjr__ | i thought only windows and mac |
| 01:03.58 | gambler | no they made a deal with novell to distribute their codec pack with moonlight |
| 01:04.08 | Dougie187 | well it says on the site cross-platform. |
| 01:04.10 | Dougie187 | which is retarded. |
| 01:04.15 | Dougie187 | yeah moonlight is like silverlight |
| 01:04.18 | Dougie187 | but its not out yet. |
| 01:04.30 | Dougie187 | and NBC's coverage of the Olympics requires silverlight |
| 01:05.00 | gambler | Dougie187, probably only v1, which I think moonlight mostly handles now |
| 01:05.19 | gambler | though i did have problems with their most recent firefox plugin |
| 01:05.19 | Dougie187 | from what i hear moonlight doesnt allow you to watch them on NBC.com |
| 01:05.54 | Dougie187 | its so stupid. |
| 01:06.14 | gambler | Dougie187, your pissed that you cant watch the olympics? |
| 01:06.37 | Dougie187 | lol, no not the olympics in general. im pissed that i cant download the videos of people messing up. |
| 01:07.01 | gambler | i got ya |
| 01:07.09 | michaelnovakjr__ | i am watching the olympics |
| 01:07.20 | Dougie187 | i heard this Chinese guy was doing the rings the other day and fell on his side and made this awesome face. i wanted to see it but i couldnt get the video. |
| 01:07.55 | gambler | so you like to see people mess up and humiliate themselves |
| 01:07.59 | Dougie187 | lol yeah |
| 01:08.01 | Dougie187 | thats awesome. |
| 01:08.05 | gambler | you must be a kindred soul |
| 01:08.15 | Dougie187 | especially when they are the 16 year olds who will be crushed for life after that incident. |
| 01:08.15 | michaelnovakjr__ | yea yo ;) |
| 01:08.41 | Dougie187 | i wanna see someone get hurt on the trampoline |
| 01:08.49 | Dougie187 | i feel like its 90% impossible. |
| 01:08.52 | Dougie187 | but who knows. |
| 01:08.57 | gambler | we can onlyhope |
| 01:09.05 | Dougie187 | true. |
| 01:09.15 | Dougie187 | Do you enjoy a good fall in the olympics? |
| 01:09.50 | gambler | i havent watched any yet |
| 01:10.00 | Dougie187 | too bad. |
| 01:10.03 | gambler | i probably last watched tv about 5 years ago |
| 01:10.17 | chomchom | lies upon lies! |
| 01:10.23 | Dougie187 | lol well you should try to catch some of the live feeds of the olympics. |
| 01:10.56 | gambler | chomchom, true for broadcast tv...i cherry pick all my media online now |
| 01:11.08 | chomchom | yeah me too |
| 01:11.31 | chomchom | I don't use Tv, I have a mac mini I use for media |
| 01:11.49 | Dougie187 | oh man, i download hd videos and watch them on our big screen. they look awesome. |
| 01:11.54 | gambler | Dougie187, id prefer to watch something like 'Dougie187s Best Of' |
| 01:12.01 | Dougie187 | i just hook my laptop up to it. it is sooo cool. |
| 01:12.09 | Dougie187 | gambler: what do you think that would consist of? |
| 01:12.42 | gambler | Dougie187, Chinese guy falling from the rings? |
| 01:12.53 | Dougie187 | oh you mean of the olympics? |
| 01:13.08 | Dougie187 | some guy got hurt running today. |
| 01:13.50 | Dougie187 | oh yeah, also... nbc.com requires Windows OS to download the videos. |
| 01:14.02 | ttuttle | FAIL |
| 01:14.05 | Dougie187 | "Sorry, NBC Direct currently requires Windows XP (Service Pack 2) or Windows Media Center Edition or Windows Vista." |
| 01:14.13 | chomchom | I run VMware to view some stuff |
| 01:14.30 | Dougie187 | yeah i dont feel like going to that much trouble. ill just complain about it. |
| 01:14.33 | gambler | Ive got a windows MCE server under my flatscreen. The only way I could get it there was to get something that didnt look like a computer |
| 01:14.42 | chomchom | Its really easy one you have an image |
| 01:14.53 | Dougie187 | yeah but you have to make the image first. |
| 01:15.00 | Dougie187 | thats what i dont feel like doing. |
| 01:15.02 | chomchom | you can download one although they are huge |
| 01:15.10 | Dougie187 | for xp though? |
| 01:15.14 | michaelnovakjr__ | yea |
| 01:15.32 | Dougie187 | oh. i thought you had to pay for them or something.. with xp, since its not free. |
| 01:15.45 | chomchom | Yes, well |
| 01:16.06 | Dougie187 | bittorrent probably would work though. |
| 01:16.13 | michaelnovakjr__ | :) |
| 01:16.45 | chomchom | With the likes of vmware fusion you put in your serial and it sets everything up dead quickly, you just leave it to make the image |
| 01:16.52 | chomchom | very convenient |
| 01:17.31 | Dougie187 | yeah but fusion is only for osx. right? |
| 01:17.55 | chomchom | Yeah it might be, thats what I'm using. I'm sure there will be an equivelant |
| 01:18.20 | michaelnovakjr__ | yea |
| 01:18.22 | Dougie187 | well fusion has been out for like... 2 years? |
| 01:18.24 | Dougie187 | something like that. |
| 01:18.45 | *** join/#android morrildl (n=chatzill@76-217-210-185.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 01:18.46 | Dougie187 | fusion is cool though. |
| 01:19.46 | Dougie187 | hows it going morrildl? |
| 01:21.24 | *** join/#android duey (n=Nick@203.96.223.40) |
| 01:23.21 | michaelnovakjr__ | Dougie187: i'm going iPhone shopping in September |
| 01:23.44 | Dougie187 | sad panda. |
| 01:23.51 | Dougie187 | you are retiring your android dreams? |
| 01:24.03 | michaelnovakjr__ | basically |
| 01:24.19 | Dougie187 | thats sad. |
| 01:24.22 | chomchom | Oh really? Thats awful news. |
| 01:24.24 | Dougie187 | so you are also switching to spring? |
| 01:24.28 | Dougie187 | i mean att |
| 01:24.34 | michaelnovakjr__ | yea |
| 01:24.47 | Dougie187 | what made you decide to do that? |
| 01:24.57 | Dougie187 | i mean from the commercials, i would assume the iphone is only good for work. |
| 01:25.17 | michaelnovakjr__ | i saw lots of the apps on their and well they look better than what i've seen for android |
| 01:25.21 | chomchom | The iphones great man |
| 01:25.27 | michaelnovakjr__ | plus android management has pissed me off |
| 01:25.31 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 01:25.44 | chomchom | I love it, although the second edition of the software has been a step back in performance |
| 01:25.59 | chomchom | Its got all windows mobile laggy |
| 01:26.00 | Dougie187 | but i would be willing to bet if you put as much stock in the iphone's management as you did in android you would be equally disappointed. |
| 01:26.17 | michaelnovakjr__ | not really |
| 01:26.33 | michaelnovakjr__ | i think from a consumer point of view the iphone is great |
| 01:26.41 | michaelnovakjr__ | dev standpoint not so great |
| 01:26.49 | Dougie187 | yeah but what are you going to be? |
| 01:26.53 | Dougie187 | a dev/consumer? |
| 01:26.55 | michaelnovakjr__ | a consumer :) |
| 01:26.56 | Dougie187 | or just a consumer? |
| 01:27.05 | michaelnovakjr__ | i have no intentions of writing software for the iphone |
| 01:27.19 | chomchom | I'm at the mo' just a consumer for Iphone and that does me fine |
| 01:27.20 | michaelnovakjr__ | unless i find a need which has no software available |
| 01:27.37 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 01:27.39 | Dougie187 | well good luck with that. |
| 01:27.42 | romainguy | as a consumer my big issue with iPhone is the time it takes to switch between apps |
| 01:27.43 | Dougie187 | im gonna stick to android. |
| 01:27.47 | romainguy | it takes fucking forever @!# |
| 01:27.55 | Dougie187 | i never really got stuck to the iphone love. |
| 01:28.08 | chomchom | I hate the fact that it lags upon pressing on a phone contact as well |
| 01:28.08 | romainguy | and the firmware 2.0 is definitely slower and very buggy :(( |
| 01:28.14 | michaelnovakjr__ | romainguy, i guess that is because you are starting the app each time? |
| 01:28.15 | Dougie187 | i played with them a couple of times, and never thought they were all that great. |
| 01:28.16 | romainguy | chomchom: yes that's very annoying too |
| 01:28.21 | romainguy | michaelnovakjr__: yes, in part |
| 01:28.27 | romainguy | michaelnovakjr__: the long animations don't help either |
| 01:28.32 | michaelnovakjr__ | true |
| 01:28.47 | michaelnovakjr__ | i'm not an animation fan |
| 01:28.50 | romainguy | it is a great product, but I find it sometimes annoying to use heavily during a day |
| 01:29.05 | Dougie187 | i never thought it was that great. |
| 01:29.11 | romainguy | the worse is when you play a game and you hear a notification and you switch to your email for instance |
| 01:29.14 | Dougie187 | sure its flashy and cool, like 90% of what apple does. |
| 01:29.18 | romainguy | going back to the game is sloooow |
| 01:29.19 | Dougie187 | but eh. |
| 01:29.22 | chomchom | yeah, I'm really surprised how much they've dropped the ball with this software. There must be a whole load of third party problems for so much performance to be lost. |
| 01:29.43 | chomchom | In their primary stuff, and the fact that they haven't focused on it |
| 01:29.46 | romainguy | also updating the firmware is very annoying |
| 01:29.54 | romainguy | having to copy all your music again every time... |
| 01:29.56 | Dougie187 | did you jailbreak yours? |
| 01:30.10 | michaelnovakjr__ | i use a phone to check email and text message |
| 01:30.11 | romainguy | I did at first |
| 01:30.14 | romainguy | but it was unstable |
| 01:30.15 | chomchom | No, everyone else I know did though |
| 01:30.19 | romainguy | and most apps were not interesting |
| 01:30.27 | romainguy | so I stopped jailbreaking |
| 01:30.29 | chomchom | there has been less reason too since the apps |
| 01:30.35 | Dougie187 | yeah |
| 01:30.39 | michaelnovakjr__ | the lastfm app is sweet |
| 01:30.44 | chomchom | yeah |
| 01:30.49 | romainguy | there are very few apps I use anyway |
| 01:30.55 | romainguy | most are games |
| 01:30.55 | morrildl | Dougie187: hi |
| 01:30.57 | romainguy | then it's AIM |
| 01:31.01 | Dougie187 | hows it going dan? |
| 01:31.01 | romainguy | hey morrildl :) |
| 01:31.02 | morrildl | Guess I jumped in in the middle of a conversation |
| 01:31.06 | chomchom | For me the Iphone is a great email and book reader |
| 01:31.07 | michaelnovakjr__ | :) |
| 01:31.13 | morrildl | hi romainguy |
| 01:31.19 | romainguy | chomchom: a good book reader is a book reader, not a phone :p |
| 01:31.22 | michaelnovakjr__ | i read rss, lastfm, sms and email |
| 01:31.29 | chomchom | both are killer features I would by individually |
| 01:31.30 | morrildl | for reading books, I prefer... books :) |
| 01:31.36 | chomchom | Yeah me too |
| 01:31.36 | romainguy | morrildl: that too :) |
| 01:31.37 | michaelnovakjr__ | yea electronic books i find annoying |
| 01:31.44 | chomchom | but not always practical |
| 01:31.46 | Dougie187 | true dat. |
| 01:31.48 | romainguy | morrildl: I said that because I have a Sony ebook reader |
| 01:31.51 | Dougie187 | ebooks hurt my eyes. |
| 01:31.52 | romainguy | it's surprisingly good |
| 01:31.59 | romainguy | very handy for travels |
| 01:32.05 | romainguy | (and google shuttle ;-) |
| 01:32.10 | chomchom | the pdf reader is at least as good as the sony equivelant book reader |
| 01:32.12 | michaelnovakjr__ | yea gives me a headache |
| 01:32.21 | chomchom | not nearly as nice an experience as the kindle |
| 01:32.21 | Dougie187 | i always have to print out what i want to read. |
| 01:32.23 | Dougie187 | and then read it. |
| 01:32.26 | romainguy | chomchom: except that the screen on a ebook reader is much better |
| 01:32.30 | chomchom | but a darn sight more asthetic |
| 01:32.30 | Dougie187 | its also easier to take notes on.. |
| 01:32.33 | michaelnovakjr__ | Dougie187: i'm the same way |
| 01:33.20 | Dougie187 | i have an ebook of Numerical Recipes 3rd Edition though, and theres no way im printing that out. |
| 01:33.23 | Dougie187 | its like 1300 pages. |
| 01:33.46 | Dougie187 | im just going to buy it at some point. |
| 01:33.53 | michaelnovakjr__ | i enjoy reading an actual book |
| 01:34.32 | chomchom | The past two books I've started reading on the train in the morning on my iphone, I've ended up buying |
| 01:34.42 | chomchom | So I guess it works out well |
| 01:35.49 | michaelnovakjr__ | well... |
| 01:35.57 | michaelnovakjr__ | wouldn't that mean you bought it twice? |
| 01:36.19 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 01:36.36 | Dougie187 | i actually just bought a new book. |
| 01:36.50 | chomchom | Me too, what are you reading? |
| 01:36.51 | Dougie187 | good ol' Numerical Mathematics. |
| 01:36.59 | Dougie187 | how about you? |
| 01:37.10 | chomchom | Manning, Ruby for Rails |
| 01:37.19 | Dougie187 | mines Quarteroni |
| 01:37.22 | michaelnovakjr__ | as opposed to Numerical English? |
| 01:37.32 | michaelnovakjr__ | Ruby BLOWS!! |
| 01:37.34 | Dougie187 | i think book 37 in the yellow book series. |
| 01:37.44 | morrildl | uh oh, it's the Ruby throwdown |
| 01:37.49 | michaelnovakjr__ | i just finished reading Steve Wozniak's book |
| 01:38.04 | chomchom | michaelnovakjr__:silly boy |
| 01:38.04 | morrildl | puts his arms out to the sides, pushing people back, making space for the fight |
| 01:38.07 | Dougie187 | might as well just throw in some other languages to get them stomped on as well. |
| 01:38.08 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 01:38.26 | michaelnovakjr__ | Ruby creator said it has no bugs |
| 01:38.32 | michaelnovakjr__ | and he meant it! |
| 01:38.42 | michaelnovakjr__ | everything was intended |
| 01:38.48 | Dougie187 | michaelnovakjr__: how is the numerical english book? |
| 01:39.22 | michaelnovakjr__ | :) |
| 01:39.46 | Dougie187 | that good? |
| 01:40.18 | michaelnovakjr__ | that comment before was sarcastic :) |
| 01:40.26 | Dougie187 | no way. |
| 01:40.36 | Dougie187 | i couldnt tell at all. |
| 01:40.42 | Dougie187 | usually that stuff doesnt get by me. |
| 01:41.00 | michaelnovakjr__ | haha |
| 01:41.04 | Dougie187 | ;) |
| 01:41.30 | Dougie187 | omg im bored. |
| 01:41.42 | Dougie187 | i can't believe there is nothing to do on a saturday night. |
| 01:41.47 | Dougie187 | i guess its alright for fighting. |
| 01:41.49 | morrildl | sighs |
| 01:42.08 | michaelnovakjr__ | olympics are on :) |
| 01:42.20 | Dougie187 | as long as its not stupid beach volley ball. |
| 01:42.47 | morrildl | Dougie187: would smart beach volleyball be acceptable? |
| 01:42.54 | Dougie187 | slightly. |
| 01:43.07 | michaelnovakjr__ | Dougie187: women's beach volleyball is not stupid :) |
| 01:43.14 | Dougie187 | i think all of it is stupid. |
| 01:43.28 | Dougie187 | especially when i have to hear my grandpa tell me the women have great asses. |
| 01:43.28 | michaelnovakjr__ | no way |
| 01:43.34 | michaelnovakjr__ | haha |
| 01:43.39 | Dougie187 | i think its disappointing that its part of the olympics. |
| 01:43.45 | Dougie187 | they already have real volleyball. |
| 01:43.56 | Dougie187 | why do they need its cousin for drunk people at the beach? |
| 01:44.04 | michaelnovakjr__ | yea, but its awesome |
| 01:44.08 | *** join/#android yakischloba (n=jake@63-226-230-125.tukw.qwest.net) |
| 01:44.15 | Dougie187 | i disagree. |
| 01:44.21 | michaelnovakjr__ | i enjoy women's beach volleyball..... not men's though... i don't care about that |
| 01:45.05 | Dougie187 | i dont like either. |
| 01:45.09 | Dougie187 | its a waste of time. |
| 01:45.33 | Dougie187 | if you like watching women in bathing suits that much just go to the actual beach. |
| 01:45.47 | michaelnovakjr__ | :) |
| 01:45.59 | Dougie187 | then they are real. and you could potentially speak to one of them. |
| 01:46.04 | michaelnovakjr__ | i don't think NY beaches are like FLA beaches |
| 01:46.08 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 01:46.19 | Dougie187 | well you can always come down to FLA |
| 01:46.25 | Dougie187 | drive over to Panama City. |
| 01:46.28 | michaelnovakjr__ | true |
| 01:47.34 | Dougie187 | and shooting |
| 01:47.39 | Dougie187 | thats another one i dont think should be a game. |
| 01:47.54 | Dougie187 | i think anything that typically includes beer should not be in the olympics. |
| 01:48.11 | michaelnovakjr__ | haha |
| 01:48.43 | Dougie187 | thats my opinion though. |
| 01:49.09 | Dougie187 | i haven't met too many people who agree with me. |
| 01:49.22 | Dougie187 | though i have met a lot of women who think the dress code for beach volleyball is unfair. |
| 01:50.50 | Dougie187 | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:50.53 | Dougie187 | so whats new michaelnovakjr__? |
| 01:50.59 | Dougie187 | besides your iphone love? |
| 01:51.31 | michaelnovakjr__ | not much |
| 01:52.17 | michaelnovakjr__ | messing around writing a compiler |
| 01:52.24 | Dougie187 | for what? |
| 01:52.29 | michaelnovakjr__ | shits and giggles |
| 01:52.39 | Dougie187 | yeah but what's it compile? |
| 01:52.44 | michaelnovakjr__ | oh c/c++ |
| 01:52.55 | Dougie187 | sounds like fun. |
| 01:53.01 | michaelnovakjr__ | its interesting |
| 01:53.10 | Dougie187 | why dont you take a compilers class? |
| 01:53.24 | michaelnovakjr__ | i might |
| 01:54.54 | Dougie187 | i might try to make creme brulee tomorrow. |
| 01:55.08 | michaelnovakjr__ | nice |
| 01:55.15 | Dougie187 | i love me some creme brulee. |
| 01:55.19 | Dougie187 | that stuff is awesome |
| 01:55.26 | michaelnovakjr__ | :) |
| 01:56.22 | Dougie187 | are you a creme brulee fan? |
| 01:57.16 | michaelnovakjr__ | indeed |
| 01:58.41 | michaelnovakjr__ | i just saw the marathon |
| 01:58.47 | michaelnovakjr__ | coming in fourth must suck badly |
| 01:58.58 | michaelnovakjr__ | 26 miles later, and 4th place |
| 01:59.43 | Dougie187 | true. |
| 01:59.51 | Dougie187 | that would be sad. |
| 02:01.18 | morrildl | damnit |
| 02:01.22 | morrildl | Now I want some creme brulee |
| 02:01.26 | morrildl | THANKS A LOT |
| 02:02.01 | ttuttle | starts a rumor that ADC participants got free creme brulee. |
| 02:03.11 | michaelnovakjr__ | starts a rumor that sept 17 android phones are going to be released on tmobile. |
| 02:03.38 | ttuttle | keeps his mouth shut, as he's still under NDA until the phones come out. |
| 02:04.00 | ttuttle | But OH MAN I CAN'T WAIT! |
| 02:04.22 | f00f- | from the leak online it looks like a sidekick 4 imho |
| 02:04.33 | ttuttle | f00f-: Which leak? |
| 02:04.53 | ttuttle | f00f-: The Youtube video? |
| 02:05.06 | f00f- | perhaps |
| 02:05.12 | ttuttle | :-P |
| 02:06.31 | ttuttle | is very excited. |
| 02:06.58 | ttuttle | Android is going to be awesome. |
| 02:07.38 | f00f- | it won't be a ravolution, but we'll see. |
| 02:07.47 | f00f- | tough to beat the iphone in terms of wow-factor |
| 02:08.07 | ttuttle | f00f-: Yeah, the iPhone is impressive. |
| 02:08.27 | ttuttle | f00f-: But I like the (upcoming) openness of Android. |
| 02:08.32 | f00f- | ya |
| 02:08.35 | michaelnovakjr__ | i'm sold on the iphone :) |
| 02:09.12 | ttuttle | f00f-: (I'm the kind of person who likes writing phone software for kicks, so I don't want to mess with the App Store. Also, I don't like Apple.) |
| 02:09.48 | ttuttle | michaelnovakjr__: I've used the 3G, and I've gotta admit, it's pretty smooth. |
| 02:10.41 | michaelnovakjr__ | :_ |
| 02:12.07 | ttuttle | ? |
| 02:13.12 | f00f- | can iphone web apps use GPS ? |
| 02:13.20 | f00f- | or location |
| 02:13.40 | ttuttle | I think so. |
| 02:14.02 | f00f- | i cant find any info on it |
| 02:16.14 | ttuttle | developer.apple.com? |
| 02:16.25 | f00f- | nothing |
| 02:16.28 | ttuttle | Hmm. |
| 02:16.33 | ttuttle | Maybe they changed their minds? |
| 02:16.38 | f00f- | ideally i want an example |
| 02:16.41 | f00f- | must be using some JavaScript |
| 02:59.24 | *** part/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@c-69-244-215-210.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
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| 04:04.50 | *** join/#android eton (n=eton@ppp-58-8-212-104.revip2.asianet.co.th) |
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| 04:35.58 | romainguy | re |
| 04:39.05 | morrildl | romainguy: mi |
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| 05:04.53 | *** join/#android meoblast001 (n=meoblast@dynamic-acs-24-239-93-241.zoominternet.net) |
| 05:05.03 | meoblast001 | is this google Android? |
| 05:09.41 | *** join/#android SR71-Blackbird (n=nirvana@unaffiliated/sr71-blackbird) |
| 05:10.19 | meoblast001 | hi SR71-Blackbird |
| 05:11.09 | michaelnovakjr_1 | :) |
| 05:11.17 | michaelnovakjr_1 | SR71-Blackbird won't answer you |
| 05:11.19 | meoblast001 | am i in the right place? |
| 05:11.23 | michaelnovakjr_1 | yes |
| 05:11.25 | meoblast001 | ok |
| 05:11.28 | meoblast001 | i want this |
| 05:11.31 | meoblast001 | for my phone |
| 05:11.33 | meoblast001 | but my phone sux |
| 05:11.37 | meoblast001 | so im running the emu |
| 05:11.46 | meoblast001 | what phones is it compatible with |
| 05:11.56 | michaelnovakjr_1 | that information hasn't been announced yet |
| 05:12.00 | meoblast001 | oh |
| 05:12.08 | meoblast001 | does it work on any cheap sprint phones? |
| 05:12.12 | michaelnovakjr_1 | probably not |
| 05:12.21 | meoblast001 | because i dont want to stay with sprint |
| 05:12.29 | meoblast001 | but i want a phone that supports android |
| 05:12.30 | michaelnovakjr_1 | what do you mean by cheap phones? |
| 05:13.00 | meoblast001 | idk.... a phone that doesnt require me to dish out a bunch of money and then just throw the phone away when im done with sprint |
| 05:13.24 | meoblast001 | the emu is sitting here at the red ball going back and forth |
| 05:13.35 | michaelnovakjr_1 | its loading |
| 05:13.44 | michaelnovakjr_1 | the emulator isn't going to give a you feel for the phone |
| 05:13.46 | meoblast001 | its taking longer this time |
| 05:13.49 | michaelnovakjr_1 | its used for development purposes |
| 05:13.58 | michaelnovakjr_1 | its an sdk |
| 05:13.59 | meoblast001 | can i skip it =P |
| 05:14.06 | michaelnovakjr_1 | no |
| 05:14.13 | meoblast001 | lol ok |
| 05:14.19 | michaelnovakjr_1 | the emulator isn't really meant for consumers |
| 05:14.24 | meoblast001 | i like it |
| 05:14.29 | meoblast001 | i would love to develop for it |
| 05:14.33 | meoblast001 | but i dont use java |
| 05:14.38 | michaelnovakjr_1 | why not? |
| 05:16.40 | meoblast001 | michaelnovakjr_1: never found the need |
| 05:16.56 | meoblast001 | im not the best programmer |
| 05:17.04 | michaelnovakjr_1 | i see |
| 05:17.14 | meoblast001 | is Android development easy? |
| 05:17.17 | meoblast001 | like.. for apps? |
| 05:17.35 | michaelnovakjr_1 | if you know what you are doing sure |
| 05:17.47 | meoblast001 | i could make a myspace app =P |
| 05:17.54 | michaelnovakjr_1 | oh jeez |
| 05:17.57 | meoblast001 | lol |
| 05:17.58 | michaelnovakjr_1 | i hate myspace |
| 05:18.05 | meoblast001 | or AIM |
| 05:18.10 | meoblast001 | or does it already have that |
| 05:18.17 | michaelnovakjr_1 | it will have that stuff |
| 05:18.30 | meoblast001 | hmm.. what else does it need? |
| 05:18.34 | meoblast001 | i have an idea |
| 05:18.38 | meoblast001 | an HTML editor =P |
| 05:18.53 | michaelnovakjr_1 | on a phone? |
| 05:18.58 | meoblast001 | lol |
| 05:18.58 | meoblast001 | no |
| 05:19.01 | meoblast001 | that would be stupid |
| 05:19.08 | meoblast001 | go faster emulator |
| 05:20.11 | michaelnovakjr_1 | i'd recommend reading the documentation first |
| 05:20.15 | meoblast001 | uhhh |
| 05:20.17 | meoblast001 | Java died |
| 05:20.21 | meoblast001 | this was working before |
| 05:20.23 | meoblast001 | i end it |
| 05:20.25 | meoblast001 | and now it wont work |
| 05:20.31 | michaelnovakjr_1 | there are some design elements that are important to understand |
| 05:20.42 | meoblast001 | i had it working before =P |
| 05:20.57 | michaelnovakjr_1 | what os? |
| 05:22.06 | meoblast001 | Linux |
| 05:22.08 | meoblast001 | 32 |
| 05:22.12 | meoblast001 | i686 |
| 05:22.25 | meoblast001 | Lin32 lol |
| 05:23.04 | meoblast001 | Emulator is a CPU whore lol |
| 05:23.21 | michaelnovakjr_1 | its an emulator |
| 05:23.26 | meoblast001 | yeah |
| 05:23.30 | meoblast001 | dgen doesnt do this lol |
| 05:23.34 | meoblast001 | then again |
| 05:23.39 | meoblast001 | dgen is a very very matured emulator |
| 05:23.47 | michaelnovakjr_1 | this isn't meant to be :) |
| 05:23.47 | romainguy__ | what does dgen emulate? |
| 05:23.49 | meoblast001 | so mature, that development stopped |
| 05:24.02 | meoblast001 | sega genesis |
| 05:24.04 | *** join/#android muthu (n=sushmu@59.92.50.68) |
| 05:24.10 | romainguy__ | it's not quite the same thing to emulate :) |
| 05:24.16 | meoblast001 | i guess |
| 05:24.23 | michaelnovakjr_1 | hey meoblast001, got a friend you should meet |
| 05:24.24 | romainguy__ | Android's is based on qemu btw |
| 05:24.29 | michaelnovakjr_1 | muthu, meet meoblast001 |
| 05:24.42 | muthu | mornin |
| 05:24.45 | meoblast001 | hi |
| 05:26.02 | muthu | meoblast001: any androd apps you are working on? |
| 05:27.33 | meoblast001 | muthu: no |
| 05:27.37 | meoblast001 | i might start sometime soon |
| 05:27.41 | muthu | great |
| 05:27.44 | meoblast001 | well |
| 05:27.51 | meoblast001 | that is if the things i saw on youtube arent true |
| 05:27.57 | meoblast001 | i saw a lot of stuff saying android is dead |
| 05:28.01 | muthu | nope |
| 05:28.15 | meoblast001 | and that the blog hasnt been updated since 2007 |
| 05:28.28 | muthu | a public sdk is coming soon.. |
| 05:28.34 | muthu | and the launch is near |
| 05:28.35 | meoblast001 | public? |
| 05:28.42 | meoblast001 | i have the SDK |
| 05:28.46 | meoblast001 | so isnt that public? |
| 05:28.48 | muthu | m5 was the last sdk that we got in feb |
| 05:28.59 | muthu | so we are expecting updates now |
| 05:29.15 | meoblast001 | wtf is up with the emu |
| 05:29.20 | meoblast001 | it was working fine a bit ago |
| 05:29.30 | meoblast001 | i guess after you get it up and running once, thats the end |
| 05:29.37 | meoblast001 | i'll just delete all this and reextract |
| 05:29.47 | michaelnovakjr_1 | muthu, you are too optimistic |
| 05:30.17 | meoblast001 | every thing looks good |
| 05:30.21 | michaelnovakjr_1 | muthu, its pretty dead as far as the public is concerned |
| 05:30.21 | meoblast001 | from the videos i saw on youtube |
| 05:30.24 | meoblast001 | a few bugs here and there |
| 05:31.09 | michaelnovakjr_1 | few++ |
| 05:31.14 | muthu | michaelnovakjr_1: with the recent news.. its coming alive |
| 05:31.30 | michaelnovakjr_1 | what recent news? |
| 05:31.38 | michaelnovakjr_1 | muthu, you confuse rumors with news too much |
| 05:32.20 | meoblast001 | im involved with too many projects |
| 05:32.35 | meoblast001 | Alientrap, Xeiso, Ubuntu, Crystal Space (sort of) |
| 05:33.57 | meoblast001 | why is this sooooo slooooooow |
| 05:34.09 | meoblast001 | it was done in 30 seconds on my first try |
| 05:34.19 | meoblast001 | and now i give it 10 minutes and nothing |
| 05:34.29 | meoblast001 | not even terminal output |
| 05:35.10 | meoblast001 | michaelnovakjr_1: any help? |
| 05:35.31 | michaelnovakjr_1 | i've never had emulator problems :) |
| 05:35.43 | michaelnovakjr_1 | what terminal output are you talking about |
| 05:35.45 | michaelnovakjr_1 | adb logcat? |
| 05:35.46 | meoblast001 | how long does it take you to get past red ball? |
| 05:35.55 | michaelnovakjr_1 | about 30 seconds |
| 05:35.57 | meoblast001 | ok maybe im doing something wrong |
| 05:35.58 | michaelnovakjr_1 | at most |
| 05:36.14 | meoblast001 | i drag tools/emulator into a terminal |
| 05:36.16 | meoblast001 | press enter |
| 05:36.19 | meoblast001 | and it brings up a window |
| 05:36.25 | meoblast001 | with the emu |
| 05:36.30 | meoblast001 | it says Android_ |
| 05:36.33 | meoblast001 | and then the red ball |
| 05:36.35 | meoblast001 | and the red ball still |
| 05:36.38 | meoblast001 | and it never stops |
| 05:36.49 | michaelnovakjr_1 | open a new terminal window and run adb logcat |
| 05:36.53 | michaelnovakjr_1 | see what its stuck on |
| 05:37.18 | meoblast001 | k |
| 05:37.54 | meoblast001 | bash: adb: command not found |
| 05:38.09 | muthu | its in tools |
| 05:38.10 | michaelnovakjr_1 | its part of android |
| 05:38.12 | michaelnovakjr_1 | its in tools |
| 05:38.25 | meoblast001 | ok |
| 05:39.04 | meoblast001 | its doing stuff |
| 05:41.14 | meoblast001 | W/SurfaceFlinger( 508): executeScheduledBroadcasts() skipped, contention on the client. We'll try again later... |
| 05:41.14 | meoblast001 | D/ ( 508): zip_openZipFile(/system/app/gtalkservice.apk) |
| 05:42.05 | meoblast001 | michaelnovakjr_1: whats up with that... i think its repeating stuff but idk |
| 05:42.57 | meoblast001 | ahhhh |
| 05:43.10 | meoblast001 | quit trying again later and just get the job done |
| 05:43.20 | michaelnovakjr_1 | ? |
| 05:43.27 | michaelnovakjr_1 | just restart it |
| 05:43.30 | meoblast001 | W/SurfaceFlinger( 508): executeScheduledBroadcasts() skipped, contention on the client. We'll try again later... |
| 05:43.59 | michaelnovakjr_1 | what java are you running |
| 05:44.04 | meoblast001 | idk |
| 05:44.10 | meoblast001 | whatever Ubuntu gave me |
| 05:44.17 | michaelnovakjr_1 | if its that gcj shit.... get rid of it and install the sun binaries from package manager |
| 05:45.10 | michaelnovakjr_1 | go to package manager and search for sun, if no java package is selected there you must have the gcj.... |
| 05:45.19 | meoblast001 | i'll check |
| 05:47.10 | meoblast001 | michaelnovakjr_1: sun-java6-bin |
| 05:47.39 | michaelnovakjr_1 | just make sure you gcj packages are installed |
| 05:48.32 | meoblast001 | michaelnovakjr_1: i thought you called those shit |
| 05:48.49 | michaelnovakjr_1 | i meant not installed |
| 05:48.53 | michaelnovakjr_1 | sorry, its late here |
| 05:49.06 | meoblast001 | gcj-4.2-base |
| 05:49.09 | meoblast001 | thats installed |
| 05:49.36 | michaelnovakjr_1 | dump it |
| 05:49.42 | meoblast001 | ? |
| 05:49.45 | michaelnovakjr_1 | remove the package |
| 05:50.10 | meoblast001 | k |
| 05:51.33 | muthu | get jdk 1.6 from sun |
| 05:51.56 | michaelnovakjr_1 | muthu, he has it |
| 05:52.05 | meoblast001 | im running emu now |
| 05:54.11 | meoblast001 | michaelnovakjr_1: D/PackageManager( 508): Scanning app dir /system/framework |
| 05:54.11 | meoblast001 | W/SurfaceFlinger( 508): executeScheduledBroadcasts() skipped, contention on the client. We'll try again later... |
| 05:55.04 | michaelnovakjr_1 | you got me, i've never had an issue with it |
| 05:55.13 | michaelnovakjr_1 | i'd try some android forumns |
| 05:55.16 | michaelnovakjr_1 | forums* |
| 05:55.24 | meoblast001 | i dont have time at the moment sadly |
| 05:55.31 | meoblast001 | if all else fails i'll let it go overnight |
| 05:55.57 | meoblast001 | wheres the docs/ |
| 05:56.11 | michaelnovakjr_1 | where you downloaded the sdk from ... http://code.google.com/android |
| 05:56.37 | romainguy__ | meoblast001: what computer/OS do you have? |
| 05:56.40 | meoblast001 | i keep forgetting that google is a company |
| 05:56.44 | meoblast001 | Ubuntu 8.04 HH |
| 05:57.07 | romainguy__ | what machine do you run on? |
| 05:57.16 | romainguy__ | CPU and RAM |
| 05:57.30 | meoblast001 | oh yay heres the embarasing part |
| 05:57.44 | meoblast001 | 1.6 GHz Intel Pentium M |
| 05:57.50 | meoblast001 | 512 megabytes of ram |
| 05:58.02 | romainguy__ | oh ok, then the emulator will probably be very very very very slow |
| 05:58.07 | meoblast001 | but wait |
| 05:58.09 | meoblast001 | i got it to run |
| 05:58.15 | meoblast001 | it only took 3-5 minutes to start |
| 05:58.23 | romainguy__ | which is very very very slow :) |
| 05:58.24 | meoblast001 | and after that it never started again |
| 05:58.31 | romainguy__ | remove your user data |
| 05:58.34 | meoblast001 | user? |
| 05:58.37 | romainguy__ | rm -Rf ~/.android |
| 05:58.41 | meoblast001 | oh |
| 05:58.53 | meoblast001 | i didnt know it did that |
| 05:58.59 | meoblast001 | i just kept reextracting the files |
| 05:59.12 | romainguy__ | I didn't say you did that |
| 05:59.17 | romainguy__ | I'm telling you to do that |
| 05:59.24 | michaelnovakjr_1 | :) |
| 05:59.24 | meoblast001 | i know |
| 05:59.27 | romainguy__ | ok :) |
| 05:59.51 | muthu | do a -wipe-data once in a while |
| 06:00.10 | meoblast001 | or wipe it manually |
| 06:02.20 | muthu | and make sure you pray to the android gods often ;) |
| 06:02.38 | meoblast001 | lol |
| 06:02.39 | romainguy__ | soon you won't even need an emulator :) |
| 06:02.52 | meoblast001 | im not rich |
| 06:03.05 | meoblast001 | i cant afford the hardware |
| 06:03.59 | muthu | i'm tired of emu |
| 06:04.11 | meoblast001 | isnt there already a working one |
| 06:04.13 | romainguy__ | meoblast001: no pricing has been announced yet |
| 06:04.15 | meoblast001 | i saw videos on youtube |
| 06:04.24 | meoblast001 | people put them on their phones |
| 06:04.31 | michaelnovakjr_1 | coughs, rumors |
| 06:04.43 | meoblast001 | what about on the android homepage |
| 06:04.47 | meoblast001 | that guy who has it on his phone |
| 06:05.03 | meoblast001 | and he gets a text from Lexi about pizza |
| 06:05.04 | romainguy__ | meoblast001: er the Google employee? |
| 06:05.13 | meoblast001 | yeah |
| 06:05.15 | michaelnovakjr_1 | romainguy_ wouldn't even go there |
| 06:05.20 | romainguy__ | well |
| 06:05.21 | romainguy__ | yeah |
| 06:05.28 | muthu | is the device being used in goog cafeteria? |
| 06:05.30 | romainguy__ | we have real hardware at work to do our job:)) |
| 06:05.41 | romainguy__ | michaelnovakjr_1: ? |
| 06:05.46 | meoblast001 | you work at google? |
| 06:05.46 | romainguy__ | michaelnovakjr_1: go where? |
| 06:05.49 | romainguy__ | yes |
| 06:05.50 | romainguy__ | I work on Android |
| 06:05.51 | michaelnovakjr_1 | the guy on the android homepage :) |
| 06:06.09 | meoblast001 | romainguy__: do you like your job? |
| 06:06.13 | romainguy__ | I love it :) |
| 06:06.23 | meoblast001 | sometimes i forget google is a company |
| 06:06.27 | romainguy__ | michaelnovakjr_1: I still don't get it :) |
| 06:06.33 | muthu | android is the best mobile platform out there |
| 06:06.40 | michaelnovakjr_1 | Sergey |
| 06:06.47 | romainguy__ | what about him? |
| 06:06.54 | michaelnovakjr_1 | he's the guy on the homepage |
| 06:07.00 | meoblast001 | Android Emulator is the best emulator out there (cough cough) |
| 06:07.13 | romainguy__ | michaelnovakjr_1: er ok :) |
| 06:07.13 | michaelnovakjr_1 | meoblast001: wanted to know why he had a device... |
| 06:07.14 | muthu | sergey is the android god :) |
| 06:07.20 | michaelnovakjr_1 | ? |
| 06:07.43 | meoblast001 | wheres the secret button |
| 06:07.45 | meoblast001 | come on |
| 06:07.47 | meoblast001 | the joke's over |
| 06:07.59 | romainguy__ | this chan is very confusing |
| 06:08.26 | meoblast001 | D`= |
| 06:08.33 | muthu | bolt seems to be running backwards when crossing the 100m finish line |
| 06:08.36 | michaelnovakjr_1 | meoblast001: i recommend doing some reading up on android |
| 06:08.48 | michaelnovakjr_1 | muthu: he was done before he finished |
| 06:08.49 | muthu | and he still has 9.69!! |
| 06:08.51 | meoblast001 | i want to do exactly what i was doing about 30 minutes ago |
| 06:08.56 | meoblast001 | playing around with the emu |
| 06:09.35 | muthu | how's this 100m WR keep getting pushed like this? |
| 06:09.41 | muthu | where's the limit? |
| 06:10.13 | michaelnovakjr_1 | if he kept running he could have done 9.5 |
| 06:10.23 | muthu | yeah |
| 06:11.17 | muthu | there's some nice goog api's in code.google.com |
| 06:11.49 | muthu | i'm looking at the geo and social networking in particular |
| 06:11.49 | meoblast001 | hmm |
| 06:11.49 | meoblast001 | was i supposed to cd first? |
| 06:11.49 | michaelnovakjr_1 | i have social networking :) |
| 06:11.50 | muthu | if you put these together in your android.. you would have some nice stuff |
| 06:11.52 | michaelnovakjr_1 | but you already know that |
| 06:11.58 | michaelnovakjr_1 | hate * |
| 06:12.03 | muthu | hehe |
| 06:12.16 | meoblast001 | ? |
| 06:13.18 | muthu | meoblast001: add tools to your path |
| 06:13.34 | meoblast001 | ? |
| 06:13.40 | meoblast001 | cd? |
| 06:13.49 | muthu | yeah |
| 06:13.53 | meoblast001 | ok |
| 06:13.59 | meoblast001 | is that why it was phailing before? |
| 06:14.06 | muthu | may b |
| 06:15.58 | muthu | 7th gold for phelps is amazing |
| 06:16.08 | muthu | looks like the serb won |
| 06:17.03 | meoblast001 | this thing is running as slow as windows |
| 06:17.20 | michaelnovakjr_1 | muthu, you watching in delay? |
| 06:17.52 | meoblast001 | if (user == "impatient") { wait("long_time"); } |
| 06:18.14 | meoblast001 | W/SurfaceFlinger( 514): executeScheduledBroadcasts() skipped, contention on the client. We'll try again later... |
| 06:18.17 | muthu | michaelnovakjr_1: yeah, in delay |
| 06:18.25 | meoblast001 | trying again later DOESNT GET THE JOB DONE |
| 06:18.49 | michaelnovakjr_1 | oh, muthu... it gets better |
| 06:19.01 | michaelnovakjr_1 | meoblast001: im sure if you looked online you would have found it already :) |
| 06:19.06 | michaelnovakjr_1 | help that is |
| 06:19.25 | meoblast001 | do i put that whole string into google? |
| 06:19.35 | meoblast001 | lol @ talking about google in a google channel |
| 06:19.43 | meoblast001 | i mean |
| 06:19.47 | meoblast001 | do i type that in at ask.com =P |
| 06:20.08 | michaelnovakjr_1 | you are really new at this huh? |
| 06:20.16 | muthu | meoblast001: what's that you are trying to do? |
| 06:20.16 | michaelnovakjr_1 | look in the forums for keywords |
| 06:20.26 | michaelnovakjr_1 | like emulator slow on linux :) |
| 06:20.27 | meoblast001 | im not good at keywords |
| 06:20.41 | meoblast001 | or emulator hangs linux |
| 06:20.48 | meoblast001 | then that sounds like its killing linux |
| 06:20.50 | meoblast001 | but it doesnt |
| 06:21.08 | meoblast001 | and google algorithms still arent smart enough for how stupid i am |
| 06:22.04 | meoblast001 | cant find forums |
| 06:22.16 | michaelnovakjr_1 | i think you are just lazy |
| 06:22.37 | meoblast001 | ahhh |
| 06:22.43 | meoblast001 | i typed in android forums in google |
| 06:22.49 | meoblast001 | and it pointed me to a porn forums |
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| 06:29.17 | muthu | lol |
| 06:34.29 | meoblast001 | i now know why this isnt released yet |
| 06:39.43 | meoblast001 | muthu: its starting window manager, how close am i? |
| 06:42.16 | muthu | meoblast001: the emu should run without issues |
| 06:42.26 | meoblast001 | how close am i? |
| 06:42.37 | meoblast001 | plz.. this has been over 10 minutes ive been watching this thing |
| 06:42.56 | muthu | hold on |
| 06:45.52 | meoblast001 | fuck this |
| 06:45.55 | meoblast001 | im redownloading tommorro |
| 06:45.58 | meoblast001 | im deleting it all |
| 06:46.37 | muthu | that might work ;) |
| 06:46.51 | meoblast001 | my computer is devastated |
| 06:46.58 | meoblast001 | running as slow as a windows machine |
| 06:47.42 | meoblast001 | let me add this to my Freenode startup channels |
| 06:48.03 | meoblast001 | ok |
| 06:48.06 | meoblast001 | now im gonna go to bed |
| 06:48.09 | meoblast001 | see you tommorro |
| 06:48.11 | meoblast001 | night |
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| 07:44.13 | muthu | will gae support anything other than python? |
| 07:45.34 | muthu | python seem to be really good though |
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| 08:19.03 | anno^da- | good morning |
| 08:20.38 | muthu | good afternoon |
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| 08:21.43 | anno^da | :-) |
| 08:21.55 | anno^da | Where do you live? In the US ? |
| 08:22.26 | muthu | chennai, india |
| 08:23.37 | anno^da | Ah I should have guessed that from your name :) |
| 08:24.33 | muthu | you in ny? |
| 08:24.54 | anno^da | No I'm living in Germany :) |
| 08:25.15 | anno^da | I'm coming directly from breakfast. :-) |
| 08:25.27 | muthu | oh yeah |
| 08:32.20 | chomchom | good morning! |
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| 08:40.08 | anno^da | morning chomchom |
| 08:45.40 | anno^da | Whats the easiest way to create a pulsing button (the background color fades from one in to another and back) ? |
| 08:45.51 | anno^da | Is it possible with a simple animation ? |
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| 09:53.57 | anno^da | haha the latest rumours |
| 09:54.02 | anno^da | no GPS :P |
| 09:54.25 | anno^da | with 80% ot the ADC apps using GPS services |
| 09:55.06 | anno^da | so I dont believe that rumours but the big news sites will :) |
| 09:58.52 | swetland | I heard they're removing the baseband modem and replacing it with an RJ11 jack for dialup |
| 10:03.31 | anno^da | Oh well I've heart we get an barbecue grill included. Would be cool for muthus cooking capsuels :D |
| 10:03.59 | jasta | anno^da: they might have AGPS |
| 10:04.03 | jasta | which is not GPS |
| 10:06.32 | anno^da | from my point of knowledge AGPS is a normal GPS chip that uses the data line to get more precise results. (A=assisted) |
| 10:06.48 | swetland | a: but there will be ads on the bbq sauce ; ; |
| 10:07.03 | jasta | true, but also there is google's "My Location", which doesn't rely on GPS at all. although it is very inaccurate. |
| 10:07.16 | swetland | AGPS generally means having ephemeral data available so that the GPS can get a first fix faster |
| 10:07.25 | anno^da | yeah |
| 10:07.26 | jasta | anno^da: still, it wouldn't surprise me if android failed on one of its basic requirements :) |
| 10:07.28 | anno^da | thats what I meant |
| 10:07.33 | swetland | downloaded from an external source (server somewhere) |
| 10:08.16 | swetland | it is true. those fools probably will get the cook time all wrong for the bbq. |
| 10:08.27 | anno^da | jasta: well yeah but that would be pretty stupid. :) Having no GPS would be the worst thing they could do. |
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| 10:08.59 | swetland | I bet I could think of several things worse than no GPS! There's a lot of ways to make a crappy phone ^^ |
| 10:10.07 | anno^da | Sure swetland but the most ADC apps are based on their local position. And I don't think they will just use the inaccurate Cell ID. |
| 10:10.31 | swetland | I was a bit surprised at the number of mobile social apps |
| 10:10.55 | swetland | and the lack of basic useful stuff I was hoping to see |
| 10:11.39 | anno^da | That's true. But I think that the big vendors for PIM application will the develope for Android outside the ADC. |
| 10:11.46 | anno^da | -the |
| 10:12.11 | anno^da | I dont really care much about the Google apps that will be built in. |
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| 14:13.54 | SR71-Blackbird | hi guys |
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| 14:52.20 | michaelnovakjr_1 | wow SR71-Blackbird spoke! |
| 14:52.52 | dmoffett | He is just responding when I said hello months ago. :-) |
| 14:53.05 | michaelnovakjr_1 | :) |
| 14:53.41 | SR71-Blackbird | haha.. |
| 14:53.59 | michaelnovakjr_1 | wow again! |
| 14:54.13 | SR71-Blackbird | i haven't been active here much anyways |
| 14:54.37 | michaelnovakjr_1 | are you a programmer |
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| 14:55.22 | Dougie187 | good morning everyone |
| 14:55.26 | SR71-Blackbird | yeah.. been writing an app for a while.. basically for disaster management scenarios |
| 14:55.34 | michaelnovakjr_1 | Dougie187: look he spoke! |
| 14:55.41 | Dougie187 | who's he? |
| 14:55.56 | SR71-Blackbird | Dougie187, michaelnovakjr_1 was it an issue that I didn't speak? |
| 14:56.04 | michaelnovakjr_1 | ah yea, i was writing one of those and some stole it |
| 14:56.15 | michaelnovakjr_1 | you've just been in here for like 8 months :) |
| 14:56.16 | Dougie187 | I dont know SR71-Blackbird |
| 14:56.23 | Dougie187 | he use to talk... |
| 14:56.32 | michaelnovakjr_1 | Dougie187: everyone thought he was phantom |
| 14:56.41 | Dougie187 | Looks like Good Ol' TSFAY is coming right up through florida. |
| 14:56.47 | SR71-Blackbird | michaelnovakjr_1, was in my autologin.. and I don't like talking much anyways.. |
| 14:56.49 | michaelnovakjr_1 | yep |
| 14:56.53 | michaelnovakjr_1 | :) |
| 14:57.00 | michaelnovakjr_1 | Dougie187: coming close to you? |
| 14:57.06 | Dougie187 | Decently close. |
| 14:57.12 | Dougie187 | We are in the projected region for Wednesday |
| 14:57.12 | michaelnovakjr_1 | SR71-Blackbird: were you in the top 50 |
| 14:57.16 | Dougie187 | but that is also huge. |
| 14:57.21 | michaelnovakjr_1 | yea |
| 14:57.28 | Dougie187 | its a good 300 mile diameter. |
| 14:57.38 | dmoffett | You can't have a name like SR71-Blackbird and not bring some attention. :-) |
| 14:57.39 | SR71-Blackbird | michaelnovakjr_1, nope.. didn't apply for that.. had a lot to do during that time.. |
| 14:57.41 | Dougie187 | but we are supposed to get winds of 25 mph and significant rain fall |
| 14:59.19 | michaelnovakjr_1 | getting ready for it? |
| 14:59.21 | SR71-Blackbird | is there any word about new SDK? |
| 14:59.34 | michaelnovakjr_1 | nope |
| 15:01.09 | muthu | SR71-Blackbird: expected sometime this month.. |
| 15:01.53 | michaelnovakjr_1 | muthu.... rumors |
| 15:02.08 | SR71-Blackbird | muthu, yeah, been hearing those for a while anyways.. :) |
| 15:03.19 | muthu | sep 17, oct 13 are the two dates |
| 15:03.21 | michaelnovakjr_1 | i'm fed up with the whole thing |
| 15:03.28 | michaelnovakjr_1 | stop speculating!! |
| 15:03.34 | michaelnovakjr_1 | google hasn't said anything |
| 15:04.06 | SR71-Blackbird | michaelnovakjr_1, yeah... I've kinda stopped working on android for a while.. need to resume in a few weeks anyways |
| 15:04.32 | michaelnovakjr_1 | i was working on it for awhile but kinda stopped also |
| 15:04.38 | michaelnovakjr_1 | thinking about getting an iPhone |
| 15:04.46 | SR71-Blackbird | too |
| 15:04.51 | muthu | now is the time to work on android |
| 15:04.59 | michaelnovakjr_1 | nope |
| 15:05.23 | SR71-Blackbird | I'd need to port my app to iPhone soon anyways, so looking at it.. |
| 15:05.25 | michaelnovakjr_1 | muthu, its gonna flop |
| 15:05.32 | muthu | it would be a huge hit |
| 15:05.37 | muthu | android will rock |
| 15:05.47 | michaelnovakjr_1 | not when it launches |
| 15:06.11 | michaelnovakjr_1 | the top 50 apps suck, and there's no promising apps for it and we don't even know what the google stuff will look like |
| 15:06.13 | muthu | glad its not blindly following iphone |
| 15:06.17 | SR71-Blackbird | thing about mobile phones is, the life is short... even iPhone wont last long enough.. it was fairly disruptive.. but Linux will beat to it |
| 15:06.24 | muthu | we don't need an iphone clone! |
| 15:06.41 | SR71-Blackbird | iPhone is definitely something in the right direction IMO |
| 15:06.50 | muthu | top 50 doesn't matter |
| 15:06.58 | michaelnovakjr_1 | muthu yes it does |
| 15:07.01 | muthu | am sure there are other apps waiting to be released |
| 15:07.10 | michaelnovakjr_1 | with an old sdk |
| 15:07.17 | michaelnovakjr_1 | you are too hopeful man :) |
| 15:07.53 | muthu | android makes me hopeful |
| 15:07.57 | SR71-Blackbird | i think google fscked up by trying to do everything in java and stuff... I'd have loved to program in python, C++ |
| 15:08.06 | SR71-Blackbird | LiMo looks better in that regard.. |
| 15:08.26 | muthu | disagree |
| 15:08.30 | muthu | android is cool with java |
| 15:08.44 | muthu | and that's a major selling point |
| 15:08.48 | michaelnovakjr_1 | why? |
| 15:08.57 | muthu | and they picked python for gae |
| 15:08.59 | michaelnovakjr_1 | is java the only language you know muthu? |
| 15:09.21 | SR71-Blackbird | java is only something people "have been" using to program mobile phones... that doesn't make it better.. |
| 15:09.32 | muthu | android is better |
| 15:10.37 | michaelnovakjr_1 | muthu, i have seen no evidence to prove this |
| 15:10.50 | michaelnovakjr_1 | i don't like to set myself up for disappointment |
| 15:10.58 | michaelnovakjr_1 | google's done that once already |
| 15:11.19 | SR71-Blackbird | IMO android is very much J2SE with some extra classes and Dalvik VM... it didn't pull a lot of stuff from other platforms, which it could've and kinda left other non-java developers almost entirely as of now |
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| 15:11.44 | dmoffett | Java is the choice since Android was bought and there will be other languages as soon. |
| 15:12.07 | muthu | yeah, other languages might come in |
| 15:12.20 | SR71-Blackbird | dmoffett, hope so.. I'm looking at symbian too, since it's open source too.. it will be.. IIRC |
| 15:12.22 | michaelnovakjr_1 | doubt it would happen for a long time |
| 15:12.33 | dmoffett | new languages? |
| 15:12.39 | michaelnovakjr_1 | ya |
| 15:12.57 | michaelnovakjr_1 | they can't even get it right with one language :) |
| 15:13.05 | dmoffett | I would think soon since Ruby and Python can already create byte code for other VM. |
| 15:13.13 | michaelnovakjr_1 | i hate Ruby |
| 15:13.18 | michaelnovakjr_1 | Python is cool though |
| 15:13.22 | dmoffett | Ruby rocks. |
| 15:13.33 | michaelnovakjr_1 | nope, the create is a douce |
| 15:13.34 | michaelnovakjr_1 | douche |
| 15:13.38 | dmoffett | Python rocks just not as much as Ruby. :-) |
| 15:13.43 | michaelnovakjr_1 | "Ruby has no bugs!" |
| 15:13.51 | dmoffett | lol |
| 15:14.15 | SR71-Blackbird | michaelnovakjr_1, I haven't seen much reason to use ruby yet.. Python does everything I need |
| 15:14.26 | michaelnovakjr_1 | yea Python's cool |
| 15:14.33 | dmoffett | I fought hard to on a project for Python and lost out to Ruby. After knowing both I lean towards Ruby. |
| 15:14.51 | muthu | python might be supported |
| 15:14.56 | muthu | since goog uses a lot of py |
| 15:14.58 | dmoffett | I would think so. |
| 15:15.05 | dmoffett | and they have Guido. |
| 15:15.08 | michaelnovakjr_1 | muthu, why must you speculate |
| 15:15.21 | muthu | michaelnovakjr_1: what else to do here? |
| 15:15.33 | michaelnovakjr_1 | talk about real stuff :) |
| 15:16.04 | muthu | would love to, but there's not real stuff to talk about now ;) |
| 15:16.22 | SR71-Blackbird | ok.. see ya guys, I'll try to hang out here more often... :) |
| 15:16.23 | muthu | hate GAE supports only python |
| 15:16.27 | SR71-Blackbird | goes back to reading |
| 15:16.45 | muthu | goes back to google reader |
| 15:19.01 | michaelnovakjr_1 | muthu why? |
| 15:19.06 | michaelnovakjr_1 | python is fine |
| 15:20.02 | dmoffett | dmoffett heads out to Mountain Bike on the Uncompahgre Plateau saying later to all you geeks. |
| 15:20.38 | muthu | michaelnovakjr_1: i'm too lazy to learn python now |
| 15:20.45 | michaelnovakjr_1 | why? |
| 15:20.48 | michaelnovakjr_1 | its not hard |
| 15:21.18 | michaelnovakjr_1 | muthu, do you program other stuff other than Java? |
| 15:21.54 | muthu | what do you program? |
| 15:22.11 | michaelnovakjr_1 | lots of stuf |
| 15:22.18 | dmoffett | Muthu if you don't know a scripting language, Python is a fine one and you will never regret it. Writing simple apps for testing or automating task makes it worth the effort. |
| 15:22.27 | michaelnovakjr_1 | :) |
| 15:22.57 | muthu | i'm at a stage where learning new language is not fun anymore |
| 15:23.11 | dmoffett | Perl is hard Python is fun. |
| 15:23.30 | michaelnovakjr_1 | muthu, what languages do you know? |
| 15:24.09 | muthu | michaelnovakjr_1: i'm not answering that because it doesn't prove anything |
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| 15:24.42 | michaelnovakjr_1 | i was just asking :) |
| 15:25.14 | muthu | all i can say is, learning something new is not fun anymore ;) |
| 15:25.26 | michaelnovakjr_1 | ? |
| 15:25.45 | muthu | would rather stick to something i know, and focus on the product rather |
| 15:26.19 | michaelnovakjr_1 | that doesnt make sense |
| 15:26.28 | michaelnovakjr_1 | that is limiting |
| 15:26.39 | muthu | when you don't have a focus, it doesn't matter |
| 15:28.32 | muthu | goog is big on python.. so it must be good |
| 15:29.52 | michaelnovakjr_1 | muthu, if you are a programmer languages are simple |
| 15:30.12 | michaelnovakjr_1 | you put a lot of trust in google huh :) |
| 15:32.19 | muthu | yeah i trust goog |
| 15:32.37 | muthu | they have the right intentions |
| 15:32.50 | michaelnovakjr_1 | i'd take it with a grain of salt |
| 15:32.54 | dmoffett | One of the powerful tools that Ruby and Python really helped me with were regular expressions. I used regx in languages like Java but regx really shine in scripting languages. |
| 15:33.09 | michaelnovakjr_1 | true |
| 15:33.36 | muthu | any online python tutorials? |
| 15:33.42 | muthu | that you folks can recommend |
| 15:33.46 | dmoffett | Muthu: I think you are right but that will only last as long as they make gobs of money. The bottom line they are publically traded and are beholden to the share holders. |
| 15:34.17 | muthu | dmoffett: i know, and that might be one reason for the recent silence |
| 15:34.25 | dmoffett | could be. |
| 15:34.38 | muthu | that's why i said, right intentions ;) |
| 15:35.33 | dmoffett | and I agree until the intentions conflict with share hold value. Sad fact of life. |
| 15:36.00 | muthu | yup |
| 15:36.03 | michaelnovakjr_1 | i honestly think it'll flop.... no developers are even close to being ready for a launch |
| 15:36.46 | muthu | this is only v1.. it will only get better |
| 15:36.55 | dmoffett | My fear is that it will become a developers platform. |
| 15:36.57 | michaelnovakjr_1 | first impression is everything |
| 15:37.15 | michaelnovakjr_1 | people waiting to see it, if they don't like it they'll get an iPhone |
| 15:38.09 | dmoffett | iPod is a good example of growing a platform. The first gen iPods were not a wild success. Only after a few revs did it become a huge success. |
| 15:38.38 | michaelnovakjr_1 | it was also a first of its kind :) |
| 15:38.41 | dmoffett | Imo a keyboard will win over a lot of people. |
| 15:38.54 | dmoffett | Not really there were others. |
| 15:39.04 | michaelnovakjr_1 | i actually like the iPhone keyboard, i didn't think i would but they did a nice job with it |
| 15:39.11 | dmoffett | just iPod came into a market of lame implementations. |
| 15:39.11 | muthu | dmoffett: it has to become a developers platform, for android to be successful |
| 15:39.56 | dmoffett | But to make money they need users to like it. |
| 15:40.18 | michaelnovakjr_1 | no muthu..... it has to be a users platform |
| 15:40.25 | dmoffett | not just developers. From what I have seen developers seem to like the platform. |
| 15:40.30 | michaelnovakjr_1 | yea |
| 15:40.52 | michaelnovakjr_1 | many users are comparing to the iPhone and well...... |
| 15:40.58 | dmoffett | Personally I like it better than developing on iPhone. |
| 15:41.19 | michaelnovakjr_1 | dmoffett: sure! developing is great...... but i want a phone to work for me :) |
| 15:41.36 | dmoffett | Using the iPHone rocks. Android has a tough battle and those that don't think so are naive. |
| 15:41.47 | michaelnovakjr_1 | very naive |
| 15:42.24 | muthu | its not easy for anyone in the mobile space |
| 15:42.34 | muthu | android seems to have the right balance |
| 15:42.46 | michaelnovakjr_1 | what do you mean right balance? |
| 15:42.57 | michaelnovakjr_1 | there is no balance.... its all developers right now :) |
| 15:42.59 | dmoffett | I have an iPhone and love it. I have big fingers and get pissed off. There is room I think. |
| 15:43.39 | muthu | we need to wait until android hits the users, to find out if they like them or not |
| 15:44.21 | michaelnovakjr_1 | absolutely, i'm just not expecting great things |
| 15:45.40 | anno^da_ | I'm expecting it to get different users than the iPhone just because there will be devices for every taste. Not everyone likes a touch only phone. |
| 15:45.49 | anno^da_ | +s |
| 15:46.10 | michaelnovakjr_1 | eh, but i think thats a small market |
| 15:46.21 | michaelnovakjr_1 | touchscreen is becoming more and more popular |
| 15:46.30 | anno^da_ | lol the iPhone here in germany takes 1% of the market. |
| 15:46.41 | michaelnovakjr_1 | germany isn't the whole world :) |
| 15:46.52 | anno^da_ | Well yes but the US isnt as well. ;) |
| 15:47.02 | michaelnovakjr_1 | obviously :) |
| 15:47.06 | anno^da_ | :D |
| 15:47.20 | michaelnovakjr_1 | the iPhone has sold quite a bit |
| 15:47.27 | anno^da_ | So there will definetly be space for both. |
| 15:47.45 | michaelnovakjr_1 | like the iPod and the Zune? |
| 15:47.56 | michaelnovakjr_1 | or the Creative devices? |
| 15:48.21 | muthu | android should be competing with the nokias, if its really serious |
| 15:48.23 | anno^da_ | which is a total different market. You can't compare mp3 players to mobile phones. |
| 15:48.36 | michaelnovakjr_1 | muthu, i don't think that's the idea |
| 15:48.40 | anno^da_ | Android competes with other operating systems. |
| 15:48.42 | michaelnovakjr_1 | that OS is meant for a good phone |
| 15:48.53 | michaelnovakjr_1 | i don't think it'll run well on piece of crap phones |
| 15:48.54 | muthu | right like symbian |
| 15:49.46 | michaelnovakjr_1 | i'm going to use the web browser on my tiny piece of crap phone? |
| 15:50.06 | michaelnovakjr_1 | i just don't see it |
| 15:50.21 | michaelnovakjr_1 | if it doesn't grab hold of the smartphone market it will surely flop |
| 15:51.23 | anno^da_ | Well what is a crappy phone for you? Is it a Nokia N95 is it a SE K810? |
| 15:52.04 | michaelnovakjr_1 | any non smartphone.... i don't think android will have the desired results |
| 15:52.30 | anno^da_ | But you're right the first devices should be mobile phones that include everything a high class phone can carry. |
| 15:56.13 | anno^da_ | But even the iPhone is not really the holy grail talking about the feature set. |
| 16:01.58 | anno^da_ | And talking about MP3 players isnt a good comparison for one reason. When the iPod reached the market nearly no one had a mp3 player. So the people had no background knowledge. They had nothing in mind what features their player should have. On the mobile market it is pretty different. 90% of the people have a mobile phone and they have a lot of things in mind that their mobile phone has to include. (just think about camera, flash light, ext |
| 16:02.39 | *** join/#android parti (n=parti@77.163.25.244) |
| 16:02.56 | anno^da_ | So from my point of view the impact of the iPhone is there. But mainly on the marketing site. Eveyone knows about the iPhone but not really everyone will buy one. |
| 16:04.06 | anno^da_ | I've heard a lot of friends say "Well the user interface is awesome but my crappy little 30 bugs phone has a better camera than the iPhone" (thats what I mean with background knowledge) |
| 16:23.07 | *** join/#android meoblast001 (n=meoblast@dynamic-acs-24-239-93-241.zoominternet.net) |
| 16:23.24 | meoblast001 | hi |
| 16:23.45 | meoblast001 | im looking to download some real android applications so i can see what some normal apps look and act like |
| 16:23.52 | meoblast001 | is there a place where i can go? |
| 16:24.10 | michaelnovakjr_1 | http://android-random.googlecode.com |
| 16:24.13 | michaelnovakjr_1 | that has a few |
| 16:24.29 | michaelnovakjr_1 | they are geared towards another project, but they run in the emulator |
| 16:24.50 | meoblast001 | what other project? |
| 16:25.05 | michaelnovakjr_1 | the link to it is on that site |
| 16:25.23 | meoblast001 | is there a media player yet? |
| 16:25.35 | michaelnovakjr_1 | five.googlecode.com |
| 16:25.54 | meoblast001 | i want to see how the media player is looking |
| 16:26.52 | anno^da_ | meoblast001: You have to know that there wont be "one" media player. There will be a lot of different ones. |
| 16:27.15 | anno^da_ | So Five is just one example for the media players you could run on the Android platform |
| 16:27.28 | michaelnovakjr_1 | an excellent one! |
| 16:27.40 | meoblast001 | well.... we'll need a simple one for the actual android interface |
| 16:27.43 | meoblast001 | why? you might ask |
| 16:27.54 | michaelnovakjr_1 | what do you mean simple one? |
| 16:28.01 | anno^da_ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VrbNRBOlq0 <- one more |
| 16:28.06 | meoblast001 | because i know how end users think.... and if they have to do any work to play music, they wont do it |
| 16:28.21 | michaelnovakjr_1 | man you are lazy huh? |
| 16:28.26 | michaelnovakjr_1 | that isn't work dude |
| 16:28.27 | meoblast001 | no |
| 16:28.31 | meoblast001 | thats how end users think |
| 16:28.40 | michaelnovakjr_1 | not all end users think that way |
| 16:28.41 | anno^da_ | meoblast001: How many endusers dont install software on their personal computer ? |
| 16:28.54 | anno^da_ | How many dont install software on the iPhone ? |
| 16:29.02 | meoblast001 | well. haha.... im a teenager so my freinds are like that |
| 16:29.08 | michaelnovakjr_1 | uh 30 million apps downloaded i think |
| 16:29.11 | meoblast001 | they only know how to install one app |
| 16:29.14 | meoblast001 | AIM |
| 16:29.17 | meoblast001 | so they have IE and AIM |
| 16:29.23 | michaelnovakjr_1 | i'd say you need new friends |
| 16:29.24 | meoblast001 | some higher level ones install Firefox |
| 16:29.40 | meoblast001 | i mean..... thats how most ppl i know think |
| 16:29.55 | anno^da_ | So we cant give you an answer because there wont be one standard player for that. :) |
| 16:30.09 | anno^da_ | On the devices we will see different standard players. |
| 16:30.18 | meoblast001 | i have some freinds that are very good with computers.... but the majority cant do crap but type.. press enter.. and click |
| 16:30.39 | meoblast001 | well i have an idea |
| 16:30.45 | anno^da_ | meoblast001: That's ok. I dont know anything about the internals of cars. :P |
| 16:31.20 | meoblast001 | in the interface have a get media player button... when they click it, it brings up a list of all media players they can install |
| 16:31.30 | meoblast001 | because in smart phones media players are a common feature |
| 16:31.31 | anno^da_ | So it is just the point that every device manufacturer could end up with a different player so there is not just one standard one. |
| 16:31.39 | michaelnovakjr_1 | that is a waste meoblast001 |
| 16:31.51 | meoblast001 | for someone like me and you it is |
| 16:31.52 | michaelnovakjr_1 | why would you put something like that in an interface |
| 16:31.55 | anno^da_ | haha yeah media players that are able of playing one file format :D |
| 16:32.03 | meoblast001 | but for the stupid ppl im usually around, its not |
| 16:32.23 | michaelnovakjr_1 | well, maybe they shouldn't get one if they can't learn it |
| 16:32.27 | meoblast001 | well... than again |
| 16:32.32 | michaelnovakjr_1 | this isn't 1950 anymore :) |
| 16:32.41 | meoblast001 | if this becomes a standard.... they'll just do what they already do with computers |
| 16:32.56 | meoblast001 | find the smartest person they know... ask him/her... and tell everyone else when they ask |
| 16:33.16 | michaelnovakjr_1 | they aren't going to cater the UI to morons |
| 16:33.40 | meoblast001 | well.. i now see your point |
| 16:33.47 | meoblast001 | Microsoft did that with Windows |
| 16:33.51 | meoblast001 | and look at what we have with that |
| 16:34.15 | michaelnovakjr_1 | Windows isn't that bad |
| 16:34.28 | meoblast001 | sure... it could be worse... but i wouldnt use it |
| 16:34.28 | michaelnovakjr_1 | i use linux/mac/windows ... all for different reasons |
| 16:34.56 | michaelnovakjr_1 | its stupid to limit yourself |
| 16:35.07 | meoblast001 | i used to have windows |
| 16:35.09 | meoblast001 | it crashed |
| 16:35.16 | meoblast001 | and i didnt feel like paying for another copy |
| 16:35.23 | meoblast001 | and i was happier with Ubuntu |
| 16:35.26 | meoblast001 | so i kept that |
| 16:35.44 | michaelnovakjr_1 | Ubuntu is considered the watered down Linux :) |
| 16:36.05 | meoblast001 | thats what everyone says but i think of it different |
| 16:36.10 | michaelnovakjr_1 | ? |
| 16:36.27 | meoblast001 | its something that is very close to being 100% usable by endusers |
| 16:36.39 | meoblast001 | and i have this thing with helping make things end user compatible |
| 16:36.47 | meoblast001 | so i try to help out Ubuntu |
| 16:36.54 | meoblast001 | but heres something i dont like |
| 16:36.55 | michaelnovakjr_1 | how? |
| 16:37.34 | meoblast001 | i dont like messing the project up while trying to make it more end user compatible |
| 16:37.41 | anno^da_ | michaelnovakjr_1: is there a way to package my emulator? (with all the files I pushed into it) |
| 16:38.00 | michaelnovakjr_1 | anno^da_: in what way |
| 16:38.04 | michaelnovakjr_1 | you mean for the data? |
| 16:38.38 | meoblast001 | i started android up again |
| 16:38.42 | meoblast001 | the emulator |
| 16:38.54 | meoblast001 | lets see how long it takes |
| 16:39.05 | michaelnovakjr_1 | anno^da_: you mean for the apps and stuff like that? |
| 16:39.16 | meoblast001 | yay im in |
| 16:40.07 | meoblast001 | is there going to be a place on the phone where you can download other apps from? |
| 16:40.15 | anno^da_ | Hmm well I'd like to test the whole app on a different pc and dont want to push all the files up again in the files directory of my activity. So all I want is an image of the actual condition of my emulator. |
| 16:41.50 | michaelnovakjr_1 | try copying over the data and system images |
| 16:42.39 | anno^da_ | Should they be in tools directory ? |
| 16:43.16 | *** join/#android yakischloba (n=jake@c-24-17-53-6.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 16:46.44 | michaelnovakjr_1 | i can't remember exactly where |
| 16:46.58 | michaelnovakjr_1 | i think a hidden folder in your home directory |
| 16:49.30 | meoblast001 | maps need some work |
| 16:49.37 | meoblast001 | i give it my address from my contacts |
| 16:49.39 | meoblast001 | and it dies |
| 16:49.44 | meoblast001 | in directions |
| 16:50.27 | anno^da_ | meoblast001: the sdk is from march :P |
| 16:50.44 | meoblast001 | ok |
| 16:50.55 | meoblast001 | thats not that long ago |
| 16:51.12 | michaelnovakjr_1 | yes it is |
| 16:51.20 | michaelnovakjr_1 | it is still in development |
| 16:51.23 | michaelnovakjr_1 | that is a very long time |
| 16:52.02 | *** join/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@c-69-244-215-210.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 16:53.12 | meoblast001 | when did Android start? |
| 16:54.02 | anno^da_ | nov 07 |
| 16:54.07 | meoblast001 | oh |
| 16:54.10 | meoblast001 | thats not that long ago |
| 16:54.17 | meoblast001 | i haz another question |
| 16:54.23 | meoblast001 | i have an apk file |
| 16:54.25 | meoblast001 | how do i install it |
| 16:55.35 | anno^da_ | open the adb in the console |
| 16:55.48 | meoblast001 | ? |
| 16:55.53 | anno^da_ | and then "adb install name.apk" |
| 16:56.07 | anno^da_ | what OS are you using ? |
| 16:56.15 | anno^da_ | Ubuntu ? |
| 16:56.39 | meoblast001 | oh |
| 16:56.40 | meoblast001 | ok |
| 16:56.42 | meoblast001 | i get it now |
| 16:56.47 | anno^da_ | fine :) |
| 16:56.59 | meoblast001 | when is the estimated release date of Android? |
| 16:57.21 | anno^da_ | well if you want to believe the latest rumours it will be about the 17th of October |
| 16:57.42 | anno^da_ | the first device from HTC with T-Mobile as the operator. (in the US) |
| 16:57.57 | meoblast001 | oh |
| 16:58.05 | meoblast001 | cant you already install it on phones? |
| 16:58.16 | meoblast001 | like.. if you have your own phone |
| 16:58.21 | anno^da_ | Well you can install it on different phones. |
| 16:58.53 | meoblast001 | what phones are those? |
| 16:58.56 | anno^da_ | But that are just hacks and they dont work pretty good. But perhaps michaelnovakjr_1 can tell you more about it. :) |
| 16:59.19 | anno^da_ | Some HTC devices, the Nokia N810/800 |
| 16:59.33 | anno^da_ | that are the devices I have in mind but there are some more |
| 16:59.52 | michaelnovakjr_1 | i have it running on an HTC Touch |
| 17:00.09 | meoblast001 | i cant afford a good phone =( |
| 17:00.14 | anno^da_ | How is the performance ? |
| 17:00.24 | anno^da_ | @ michaelnovakjr_1 |
| 17:02.50 | michaelnovakjr_1 | its good |
| 17:02.56 | michaelnovakjr_1 | just no apps for it :) |
| 17:03.21 | meoblast001 | michaelnovakjr_1: can you call and text and stuff on it? |
| 17:03.26 | michaelnovakjr_1 | yea |
| 17:03.34 | michaelnovakjr_1 | i wrote the SMS app i'm using |
| 17:03.41 | michaelnovakjr_1 | it doesn't come with one |
| 17:04.05 | meoblast001 | will it have one in it at release? |
| 17:04.45 | anno^da_ | is the performance better than at the emulator ? |
| 17:05.34 | michaelnovakjr_1 | anno^da_: yes |
| 17:05.37 | michaelnovakjr_1 | meoblast001: obviously :) |
| 17:06.03 | michaelnovakjr_1 | you need a data plan for anything other that text and calling |
| 17:06.19 | michaelnovakjr_1 | including app downloading |
| 17:06.24 | meoblast001 | yeah |
| 17:06.28 | meoblast001 | thats obvious |
| 17:06.32 | meoblast001 | can it bluetooth connect to pc? |
| 17:07.30 | michaelnovakjr_1 | not yet |
| 17:07.38 | michaelnovakjr_1 | like i said... its still a development version |
| 17:07.45 | michaelnovakjr_1 | not everything works |
| 17:08.09 | meoblast001 | i cant find an APK of five |
| 17:10.46 | muthu | meoblast001: try helloandroid.com and anddev.org |
| 17:13.21 | Dougie187 | lol michaelnovakjr_1 you have it running on your touch and you are still converting to iphone? |
| 17:15.27 | anno^da_ | romainguy: you here ? |
| 17:15.47 | michaelnovakjr_1 | Dougie187: yep |
| 17:16.02 | Dougie187 | i would have thought you would have stuck with it after you played with it on your phone. |
| 17:16.17 | michaelnovakjr_1 | its not all that special |
| 17:16.31 | meoblast001 | i cant find an actual APK of Five |
| 17:16.46 | michaelnovakjr_1 | build it from the source |
| 17:17.23 | *** join/#android morrildl (n=chatzill@72.14.224.1) |
| 17:18.16 | meoblast001 | i dont know how |
| 17:19.32 | meoblast001 | michaelnovakjr_1: how do i add files to the emu's filesystem |
| 17:21.11 | muthu | meoblast001: are you planning to buy a gphone? |
| 17:21.31 | meoblast001 | i thought gphone was a myt |
| 17:21.31 | meoblast001 | h |
| 17:22.37 | *** part/#android michaelnovakjr_1 (n=mnovak@96.56.111.166) |
| 17:22.46 | meoblast001 | muthu |
| 17:23.02 | muthu | yeah, android phone |
| 17:23.05 | anno^da_ | meoblast001: You can add files with the eclipse plugin or with the adb shell |
| 17:23.12 | muthu | ok, aphone then ;) |
| 17:23.37 | meoblast001 | yes i plan to |
| 17:23.50 | meoblast001 | i heard rumors that android is like a dieing project |
| 17:23.57 | muthu | WHAT? |
| 17:24.12 | muthu | lol |
| 17:24.52 | anno^da_ | haha |
| 17:25.02 | anno^da_ | the rumours are floating around who knows :P |
| 17:25.06 | romainguy__ | meoblast001: it sure doesn't feel like it at work ^^ |
| 17:25.14 | meoblast001 | lol |
| 17:25.25 | muthu | android is the next big thing |
| 17:25.26 | meoblast001 | ok... i just tried to push a file |
| 17:25.29 | anno^da_ | romainguy: I got my problem solved. I'm sorry for calling you :/ |
| 17:25.46 | meoblast001 | is it adb push /location/on/phone /location/on/computer |
| 17:25.57 | meoblast001 | or adb push /location/on/computer /location/on/phone |
| 17:26.02 | anno^da_ | first one |
| 17:26.13 | anno^da_ | ah noe second |
| 17:26.13 | anno^da_ | :P |
| 17:26.23 | meoblast001 | ok no wonder that didnt work |
| 17:26.25 | meoblast001 | i ddi the first |
| 17:26.29 | anno^da_ | http://code.google.com/android/reference/adb.html |
| 17:26.38 | anno^da_ | as a reference for the adb |
| 17:26.58 | ttuttle | It's source destination, always. |
| 17:26.58 | romainguy | anno^da_: what was your problem? |
| 17:27.00 | ttuttle | Just like cp. |
| 17:27.37 | meoblast001 | why isnt yahhh.mp3 in /root now |
| 17:27.47 | anno^da_ | romainguy: I searched the actual userdata.img on OSX. And I just missed the .android all the time :) |
| 17:27.53 | meoblast001 | i thought i pushed it |
| 17:27.54 | romainguy | :) |
| 17:28.27 | anno^da_ | Now everything is fine. :) |
| 17:28.31 | meoblast001 | wtf |
| 17:28.33 | meoblast001 | its not copying |
| 17:28.37 | meoblast001 | glance cant find the files |
| 17:29.01 | muthu | http://www.turtlefiji.com/ |
| 17:29.13 | muthu | that's the best vacation spot in the world, ever. |
| 17:29.46 | anno^da_ | muthu: dont show me that nice pictures. :) I didnt have any vacation this year. :) |
| 17:29.56 | muthu | haha |
| 17:30.10 | anno^da_ | it hurts :D |
| 17:30.22 | muthu | i know |
| 17:30.57 | muthu | that's where the androids are having fun ;) |
| 17:31.57 | meoblast001 | i cant push the files |
| 17:32.02 | meoblast001 | it says they push but nothing happens |
| 17:32.17 | romainguy | is the partition read only? |
| 17:32.29 | meoblast001 | ./adb push '/home/user/Music/yahhh.mp3' /data |
| 17:32.29 | meoblast001 | 940 KB/s (3419687 bytes in 3.551s) |
| 17:34.19 | meoblast001 | romainguy: why doesnt it show up on the device? |
| 17:34.24 | ttuttle | romainguy: hey! |
| 17:35.32 | romainguy | meoblast001: I have no idea since you are running Android on a custom installation |
| 17:35.54 | romainguy | ttuttle: ? |
| 17:36.16 | meoblast001 | custom installation? |
| 17:36.16 | meoblast001 | what |
| 17:36.17 | ttuttle | romainguy: er, I meant "hey!" in the sense of "hello", not in the sense of "zomg there's something important I have to tell you". |
| 17:36.22 | romainguy | :_ |
| 17:36.24 | romainguy | :) |
| 17:36.30 | ttuttle | romainguy: How's it going? |
| 17:36.39 | romainguy | meoblast001: aren't you running Android on a phone? |
| 17:36.43 | romainguy | ttuttle: tired :) |
| 17:36.47 | meoblast001 | no |
| 17:36.48 | ttuttle | romainguy: :( |
| 17:36.50 | meoblast001 | im running the emu |
| 17:36.53 | romainguy | meoblast001: oh sorry then |
| 17:37.02 | meoblast001 | my phone is too crappy to run android |
| 17:37.15 | romainguy | have you checked that the file is on the emu using adb shell ls /data ? |
| 17:41.48 | meoblast001 | buying a smartphone without a contract is expensive |
| 17:41.53 | meoblast001 | oh sorry |
| 17:42.19 | meoblast001 | let me check |
| 17:42.51 | meoblast001 | its there |
| 17:42.55 | meoblast001 | why cant i play the file now |
| 17:43.19 | romainguy | how do you play the file? |
| 17:43.32 | meoblast001 | uhh.. h/o while i get the name of the app |
| 17:43.38 | meoblast001 | Ambient |
| 17:43.41 | meoblast001 | i cant find it |
| 17:43.48 | meoblast001 | the file |
| 17:44.25 | meoblast001 | h/o |
| 17:44.26 | meoblast001 | i gtg |
| 17:44.28 | meoblast001 | bbl |
| 17:46.29 | *** join/#android crib (n=chris@port-195-158-167-6.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 17:53.47 | *** join/#android sayers (n=sayers@c-76-20-182-119.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) |
| 17:53.56 | *** part/#android muthu (n=sushmu@59.92.60.141) |
| 17:58.00 | *** join/#android Mathiasdm (n=Mathias@vpnf133.ugent.be) |
| 18:01.47 | meoblast001 | im back |
| 18:04.00 | meoblast001 | romainguy: if i wanted a not too expensive phone that worked with sprint and android, what would i want to buy? |
| 18:06.17 | plusminus_ | there is not yet a phone that officialy supports Android (even no unofficial, as most of the hacks suffer problems) |
| 18:07.22 | meoblast001 | plusminus_: why does the FAQ say i cant put it on a phone? |
| 18:07.33 | meoblast001 | but some people already ahve it on a phone |
| 18:08.09 | plusminus_ | because that were dirty hack0rz |
| 18:08.10 | plusminus_ | :D |
| 18:08.23 | meoblast001 | well i want a phone with android |
| 18:08.36 | meoblast001 | romainguy: you work for google, you can get me one right? |
| 18:08.38 | plusminus_ | its linux, so its portable (if you have the knowledge) |
| 18:09.08 | plusminus_ | I'd wait for the first official phone, just because its official. |
| 18:09.25 | SanMehat | morning |
| 18:10.06 | plusminus_ | hi |
| 18:11.16 | meoblast001 | plusminus_: how many years til we get that? |
| 18:11.42 | plusminus_ | maybe 12th of a year, maybe longer |
| 18:11.55 | meoblast001 | 12th of a year? |
| 18:12.15 | SanMehat | hahaha |
| 18:12.19 | meoblast001 | a month? |
| 18:13.25 | meoblast001 | plusminus_ |
| 18:14.56 | plusminus_ | yep, but its just rumors. |
| 18:15.14 | meoblast001 | plusminus_: we'll it be out by april? |
| 18:15.28 | plusminus_ | but also no one debunking them ;) |
| 18:15.45 | plusminus_ | --> I guess that rumours might be correct. |
| 18:17.47 | romainguy | meoblast001: no I cannot get you one |
| 18:18.12 | meoblast001 | ok |
| 18:18.25 | meoblast001 | romainguy: do you think android will be out by april 09? |
| 18:18.43 | romainguy | we announced the first phones would be out by the end of 2008 |
| 18:19.32 | plusminus_ | I should start a rumor that romainguy is giving away Android-Devices for free :D |
| 18:19.44 | plusminus_ | but as people would probably kill me, I don't... |
| 18:20.19 | *** join/#android plusminus_ (i=590f5364@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-80210779bbd42f88) |
| 18:20.27 | plusminus_ | damn, this channel would burst ^^ |
| 18:20.31 | meoblast001 | romainguy: do you think that's gonna happen? |
| 18:20.44 | romainguy | meoblast001: we announced the first phones would be out by the end of 2008 |
| 18:20.51 | Dougie187 | romainguy is giving away free android-devices? |
| 18:21.01 | plusminus_ | success :D |
| 18:21.13 | Dougie187 | ;) |
| 18:21.19 | meoblast001 | he refuses to state his opinion on whether they are going to do what was announced |
| 18:22.11 | romainguy | then just assume we're going to do what we announced |
| 18:22.17 | romainguy | that's why we announce stuff |
| 18:22.21 | romainguy | because we will do it :) |
| 18:22.28 | romainguy | (like open sourcing the code) |
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| 18:23.15 | plusminus_ | romainguy should we trust in incredibly often cited rumors, too? |
| 18:23.25 | romainguy | rumors are rumors |
| 18:23.34 | romainguy | it's up to you to trust them or not |
| 18:23.35 | plusminus_ | damn |
| 18:23.36 | meoblast001 | Google = :) |
| 18:23.54 | plusminus_ | so I won't trust but hope ;) |
| 18:24.17 | romainguy | you can see a pattern with rumors on the web |
| 18:24.22 | romainguy | be it about Android or something else |
| 18:24.30 | plusminus_ | yes: copy+paste ;) |
| 18:24.33 | romainguy | one web site starts it, with an undiscolsed, often vague, source |
| 18:24.38 | plusminus_ | but hope is green, liek android. |
| 18:24.40 | romainguy | and everybody else repeats it |
| 18:24.58 | plusminus_ | suddenly becoming less and less vague. |
| 18:25.04 | Dougie187 | 1 month and the supposed t-mobile release comes out. |
| 18:25.07 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 18:25.33 | meoblast001 | when does the sprint one come out? |
| 18:25.37 | meoblast001 | lol |
| 18:26.10 | Dougie187 | who knows. |
| 18:26.13 | Dougie187 | thats what im waiting for |
| 18:26.41 | Dougie187 | hopefully soon after t-mobile. |
| 18:27.14 | plusminus_ | will an US-Device work in Europe also? |
| 18:27.38 | plusminus_ | (question was not Android-specific) |
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| 18:28.32 | romainguy | plusminus_: if the said device supports European radio frequencies and if the said device is not SIM-locked, yes |
| 18:28.49 | romainguy | but most phones nowadays work fine all over the world |
| 18:28.59 | romainguy | that said |
| 18:29.11 | romainguy | I just gave my mom my old Sony Eriscsson because her Nokia wasn't working here |
| 18:29.39 | plusminus_ | is that called "Tri/Quad-Band" in US, too? |
| 18:29.47 | romainguy | probably |
| 18:30.28 | plusminus_ | fine, so as I assume that T-Mobile will make a 2 year contract "w00t", I'll have to buy mayself out of that contract |
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| 19:05.52 | meoblast001 | romainguy: i have Android console up and gsm call 5555555555 wont work |
| 19:16.46 | michaelnovakjr__ | meoblast001: why don't you read some of the tutorials at www.anddev.org |
| 19:17.15 | anno^da_ | :) |
| 19:17.41 | meoblast001 | im reading the emulator page |
| 19:18.05 | meoblast001 | it said to bring up a console and type gsm call <number> |
| 19:18.09 | meoblast001 | i did that and it yelled at me |
| 19:18.29 | michaelnovakjr__ | do you know how to bring up a console |
| 19:18.37 | michaelnovakjr__ | telnet localhost 5554 |
| 19:18.39 | meoblast001 | ./emulator -console |
| 19:18.48 | michaelnovakjr__ | bring it up in telnet |
| 19:18.54 | michaelnovakjr__ | telnet localhost 5554 |
| 19:18.59 | meoblast001 | ? |
| 19:19.00 | michaelnovakjr__ | gsm call ...number.... |
| 19:19.16 | michaelnovakjr__ | open up terminal and type in telnet localhost 5554 |
| 19:19.25 | michaelnovakjr__ | then run the gsm command |
| 19:20.01 | meoblast001 | ok |
| 19:20.04 | meoblast001 | its not ringing |
| 19:20.11 | meoblast001 | i dont hear a ring |
| 19:20.41 | michaelnovakjr__ | your comp audio must be in use by another app |
| 19:20.55 | michaelnovakjr__ | again. its only a dev emulator for writing apps |
| 19:22.18 | meoblast001 | im trying to get familiar with it so i can eventually develop for it |
| 19:22.58 | anno^da_ | well why dont you use the eclipse plugin ? |
| 19:32.14 | meoblast001 | eclipse plugin? |
| 19:32.19 | anno^da_ | michaelnovakjr__: could you do a video of the android running on the htc touch? I would be interested in how fast the apps load. |
| 19:32.39 | anno^da_ | (since it is very subjective) |
| 19:32.47 | anno^da_ | meoblast001: well yes. :) |
| 19:33.17 | anno^da_ | Read the instructions please... |
| 19:34.03 | anno^da_ | http://code.google.com/android/intro/installing.html#installingplugin |
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| 20:57.43 | jasta | *rubs eyes* |
| 20:58.58 | chomchom | rolls up sleeves |
| 20:59.41 | michaelnovakjr__ | howdy |
| 21:00.01 | chomchom | howdy howdy howdy |
| 21:00.55 | jasta | i am mildly hungover |
| 21:00.58 | jasta | but still, i feel like coding :) |
| 21:01.12 | michaelnovakjr__ | :) |
| 21:02.40 | morrildl | heh |
| 21:02.51 | morrildl | coincidentally, I was just about to start drinking |
| 21:03.06 | morrildl | actually I guess that's not true I had a mimosa with brunch |
| 21:06.30 | jasta | you animal |
| 21:07.22 | plusminus_ | can http responses be transferred "zipped" from the server? |
| 21:07.33 | plusminus_ | like adding a request-flag? |
| 21:07.34 | jasta | say again? |
| 21:07.43 | plusminus_ | me? |
| 21:07.46 | jasta | you mean the response header itself? |
| 21:07.50 | jasta | or the response body? |
| 21:07.58 | plusminus_ | dunno just heard of such stuff |
| 21:08.07 | jasta | can you be more specific? |
| 21:08.20 | plusminus_ | I send a http request to a server |
| 21:08.50 | plusminus_ | and I want the html-respons to be zipped as zipped text is a lot smaller than not-zipped text |
| 21:09.02 | jasta | you mean teh response body? |
| 21:09.08 | plusminus_ | probably |
| 21:09.25 | jasta | the request and response bodies can be encoded any number of arbitrary ways, and compression is well supported on lots of servers. |
| 21:09.54 | plusminus_ | i guess I have to send "a flag" along with the request, right= |
| 21:09.55 | plusminus_ | ? |
| 21:10.10 | jasta | in a manner of speaking, yes. do you know the HTTP protocol at all? |
| 21:10.22 | plusminus_ | nope |
| 21:11.09 | jasta | the request and response headers have key/value entities that can specify any number of arbitrary things, although there are commonly understood ones like user agent, transfer encoding, etc. |
| 21:11.42 | plusminus_ | I think I found something: http://csharpfeeds.com/post/5518/HttpWebRequest_and_GZip_Http_Responses.aspx |
| 21:11.53 | jasta | the content encoding in particular can request gzip compression |
| 21:12.14 | jasta | and if the server supports it, and gives you a content-encoding of gzip back (or a content-type that is compressed), then you know you have a compressed stream. |
| 21:12.17 | plusminus_ | / Http.Headers.Add(HttpRequestHeader.AcceptEncoding, "gzip,deflate"); |
| 21:12.20 | jasta | i am 100% certain httpclient supports this gracefully. |
| 21:12.39 | jasta | but again, this is a negotiation between your client and the server. the server may not honor it if not supported or whatever. |
| 21:13.26 | jasta | also, do realize that you've got a double-edged sword on mobile devices. |
| 21:13.49 | jasta | compression is popular with most machines because bandwidth is a bottleneck, and that is true for mobile devices as well. |
| 21:14.02 | plusminus_ | DataRates against computing power ? |
| 21:14.06 | jasta | however, on mobile devices, battery and CPU considerations are a close second, which is unlike other environments. |
| 21:14.24 | jasta | so while you may transfer faster technically, the phone may take more time decompressing the stream and waste lots of battery doing so. |
| 21:14.38 | plusminus_ | is just 20kb zipped against 100kb unzipped |
| 21:14.49 | plusminus_ | uncompressing should not take too long. |
| 21:15.00 | jasta | plusminus_: and what do you base that on? |
| 21:15.01 | plusminus_ | I'll test this :) |
| 21:15.10 | jasta | Unless you test with a real phone, you haven't learned anything. |
| 21:15.31 | plusminus_ | copy returned html-source to a file and zip it |
| 21:15.51 | jasta | there isn't much data on this topic, but it is well known that you must balance radio usage, latency, and bandwidth against CPU and battery when considering compression. |
| 21:16.02 | jasta | plusminus_: that's hardly a test either. |
| 21:16.29 | plusminus_ | its on the Nice-To-Have for AndNav (if it does not get forbidden o_O ) |
| 21:16.30 | jasta | don't waste your time benchmarking this: see if you can find a more detailed numerical analysis of this problem online |
| 21:16.37 | jasta | i'm sure someone has explored the topic in more detail than i have. |
| 21:16.57 | plusminus_ | k g2g |
| 21:16.59 | plusminus_ | bye |
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| 21:30.32 | chomchom | and then he was gone... |
| 21:30.58 | chomchom | ...gone to personally answer another million posts |
| 21:31.23 | chomchom | like arnold J rimmer |
| 21:31.48 | chomchom | but without the wig |
| 21:41.31 | chomchom | smoke me a kipper, |
| 21:41.37 | chomchom | I'll be back for ADC2 |
| 21:41.57 | morrildl | chomchom: that was... interesting :) |
| 21:43.01 | chomchom | not a fan of red dwarf? Classic. |
| 21:50.21 | jasta | they had some cool deal downtown last night... |
| 21:50.31 | jasta | free concert at the seattle center sponsored by our local indie rock radio station, KEXP 90.3 |
| 21:50.41 | jasta | all local artists, and mostly the big ones that KEXP plays |
| 21:50.57 | jasta | Rocky Votolato played last night. What a treat for free too! |
| 21:51.12 | jasta | with a beer garden, and plenty of seating. it was really cool. i love seattle :) |
| 21:51.49 | jasta | and after the show, all the artists were hanging around. eating food, talking to people, etc. |
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| 21:57.53 | jasta | hehe, this is interesting |
| 22:12.32 | jasta | some friends are complaining about all this android secrecy. |
| 22:12.54 | jasta | professional devs don't seem to want to touch android. |
| 22:23.21 | michaelnovakjr__ | jasta, its a joke |
| 22:23.34 | michaelnovakjr__ | the android thing has pissed me off |
| 22:24.03 | ttuttle | michaelnovakjr__: patience, grasshopper. |
| 22:24.06 | *** join/#android zer0her0 (n=Z@cpe-74-67-48-253.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 22:24.41 | michaelnovakjr__ | i'm getting an iphone :) |
| 22:24.53 | ttuttle | michaelnovakjr__: :( |
| 22:24.58 | jasta | do it. |
| 22:25.17 | michaelnovakjr__ | i probably won't program for it.... but as a user i'm sure i'll be pleased |
| 22:28.32 | michaelnovakjr__ | ttuttle: i have a feeling android will be a flop when its released |
| 22:29.02 | jasta | i'd like to clarify that my opinion is that there is nothing telling us android *WON'T* flop. |
| 22:29.27 | jasta | not that i think it will or will not, just that a belief either way is entirely that: a belief. |
| 22:29.54 | michaelnovakjr__ | its been a disappointment |
| 22:30.04 | jasta | Google has done a miserable job showing us why Android will be great. Google has done a miserable job at everything exception designing and generally implementing a good API. |
| 22:30.20 | jasta | So, congratulations to the developers :) |
| 22:30.43 | *** join/#android zer0her0 (n=Z@cpe-74-67-48-253.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 22:30.52 | michaelnovakjr__ | but not to management :) |
| 22:32.30 | jasta | it's just really frustrating being carried along for a year on faith alone. i am not a religious man, but you wouldn't know it from my blind devotion to Android for so long. |
| 22:33.09 | michaelnovakjr__ | yea, it sucks |
| 22:33.13 | ttuttle | feels like a prophet who cannot speak. |
| 22:33.30 | ttuttle | (NDA) |
| 22:33.34 | michaelnovakjr__ | ttuttle: that is exactly why people are so pissed off |
| 22:33.50 | jasta | it's even largely based on the notion that it is open source. i don't like this abstraction of realized versus promised. |
| 22:33.58 | michaelnovakjr__ | after putting so much time in it to be left in the dark is absolutely bs |
| 22:33.59 | gambler | I heard debian/arm is now working on openmoko. In terms of progress thats more significant than android imo... |
| 22:34.06 | jasta | ttuttle: The stupid SDK was leaked anyway. |
| 22:34.13 | ttuttle | jasta: Oh, it was? Heh. |
| 22:34.21 | jasta | ttuttle: Yup, and I think it sucks :) |
| 22:34.34 | ttuttle | jasta: I'm sorry to hear that. |
| 22:34.39 | jasta | Or rather, that it doesn't represent the leap I had hoped it would. |
| 22:34.49 | ttuttle | jasta: Well, that's probably why it wasn't released publicly. |
| 22:35.19 | jasta | I had assumed as much. |
| 22:35.31 | jasta | Or at least, I consider that a reasonable conclusion. |
| 22:35.34 | michaelnovakjr__ | ttuttle: then they should have said that |
| 22:35.40 | ttuttle | michaelnovakjr__: Yeah, probably. |
| 22:35.57 | michaelnovakjr__ | its a load of crap to keep people in the dark |
| 22:36.39 | ttuttle | personally can't wait for it to come out. |
| 22:36.53 | jasta | i can't wait either. michaelnovakjr__ clearly won't. |
| 22:36.58 | jasta | ;) |
| 22:37.26 | michaelnovakjr__ | :) i'm impartial now |
| 22:37.41 | michaelnovakjr__ | going for the iphone :) |
| 22:37.45 | jasta | ttuttle: The point is, Google has made us all fools for following them. |
| 22:37.59 | michaelnovakjr__ | i've wasted too much time on this |
| 22:40.15 | jasta | ttuttle: We rallied behind an idea they won't share with us; a vision they won't show us. |
| 22:40.23 | jasta | If it turns out that we like what we rallied behind, it is only by dumb luck. |
| 22:40.45 | jasta | Because we certainly never knew what it really was when we were baited onboard. |
| 22:41.19 | jasta | I feel very tricked and cheated. And that has infuriated me, as many of you have seen demonstrated publicly :) |
| 22:41.28 | tomgibara_ | jasta: I don't quite agree with that |
| 22:42.14 | jasta | By all means, what don't you agree with? |
| 22:42.42 | tomgibara_ | As far as I have been able to judge, Google's publicly stated aim has not changed since the first release. |
| 22:42.54 | tomgibara_ | Because we certainly never knew what it really was when we were baited onboard. << I don't think what "it is" has changed |
| 22:43.04 | jasta | Which is nothing but abstract rhetoric, is it not? |
| 22:43.15 | tomgibara_ | what has changed - regrettably is the openness demonstrated early on |
| 22:43.47 | tomgibara_ | what hasn't changed is that they are building an open source phone platform |
| 22:44.00 | tomgibara_ | I'm not sure they promised any more than that |
| 22:44.14 | jasta | Their "goal", I mean. Their goal was not defined, it was just uttered carefully to not have any weight or consequence. There will be no revolution of the carriers, of the industry. There will just be a platform, with some source code attached to it. |
| 22:44.16 | tomgibara_ | I stand to be corrected ;) |
| 22:44.43 | tomgibara_ | I wouldn't confuse the means with the ends |
| 22:45.03 | michaelnovakjr__ | the fact is they gave certain people access with an NDA |
| 22:45.05 | michaelnovakjr__ | that is crap |
| 22:45.20 | michaelnovakjr__ | and offered no reason at all |
| 22:45.23 | tomgibara_ | Google undoubtedly want predominantly open platform for phone apps - I would go as far as to say they need it |
| 22:45.26 | jasta | tomgibara_: Again, it's just abstract rhetoric. We all got onboard to nothing at all. |
| 22:45.51 | tomgibara_ | Google may be making a calculation: Do we beat the carriers with a stick, or dangle a carrot? |
| 22:45.53 | jasta | Just a promise that Google would write a mobile platform, and that phones would run it. Great, that's what they promised, and that's what we're going to get. But can you honestly say you expected nothing more? :) |
| 22:46.15 | tomgibara_ | Just because you see that as an appeasment to the carriers doesn't mean it's the wrong strategy |
| 22:46.33 | jasta | You don't seem to understand my argument, tomgibara_. |
| 22:47.11 | tomgibara_ | Perhaps I don't: what did you expect in addition? |
| 22:47.39 | jasta | Tell you what. Go back and watch the initial video from Sergey. |
| 22:47.50 | tomgibara_ | btw I'm not saying that programmers were not misled - I think they were |
| 22:47.50 | jasta | The very first one we all saw. And you tell me how that vision was realized in the last 6 months ;) |
| 22:48.44 | tomgibara_ | Yes, I agree - there was an 'invitation' there, and it certainly felt like it was retracted. |
| 22:49.07 | tomgibara_ | I agree 100% that it was misleading (at least it was to me) |
| 22:49.39 | tomgibara_ | But I'm trying to separate Google's aims from their means. |
| 22:49.53 | michaelnovakjr__ | i just no longer have an interest in using android |
| 22:50.09 | michaelnovakjr__ | i'll probably still program for it... but won't use it |
| 22:50.13 | tomgibara_ | The means fell short (imo - though who knows what's to blame), we have yet to see if the aims are met |
| 22:51.58 | tomgibara_ | michaelnovakjr__: In my dichotomy, an unfortunate consequence of their means. |
| 22:51.58 | jasta | I'm just saying, if we end up liking it, it's purely dumb luck :) |
| 22:52.14 | tomgibara_ | for clarity, liking what? |
| 22:52.28 | jasta | liking the phone itself, and how it fits in this industry. |
| 22:52.46 | jasta | of course, the abstract phone *grin* |
| 22:53.17 | jasta | we all know we like the API. but do we like anything else? |
| 22:53.17 | tomgibara_ | well, android isn't the phone though is it |
| 22:53.56 | tomgibara_ | I hope there will be many phones, of course it is hope at this stage |
| 22:54.06 | jasta | that's why i clarified. the abstract phone. |
| 22:54.15 | jasta | i meant android as a phone, not as a platform for phones. |
| 22:54.41 | jasta | ultimately, android software has to make a good phone experience. and they have to deliver on all our assumptions of openness. |
| 22:54.43 | tomgibara_ | I understood, but the phone is by definition more than its OS |
| 22:54.53 | tomgibara_ | agreed |
| 22:55.13 | jasta | i think if you go back and look at all the original materials and announcements, you see that all they really promised was a phone platform and some source code. why does that excite us? |
| 22:55.47 | tomgibara_ | I think there was the implicit promise of something more, which I think you would agree with |
| 22:55.51 | jasta | in sergey's original speech even he opens by conjuring similarities to GNU and Linux. how laughable does this seem now? :) |
| 22:55.59 | jasta | even when it's released we know it won't match either project. |
| 22:56.50 | jasta | it won't even be similar, I bet. but of course we don't know either way. this is the nuance of my argument. |
| 22:56.50 | tomgibara_ | Well, that's hyperbole isn't it - Google can't make Linux, it's a corporation - and even if did it would be an anachronism |
| 22:57.07 | jasta | we just don't know what we've got behind here. even now, months before launch, we know fuck all about how this will play out. |
| 22:57.26 | tomgibara_ | I bet Google don't know how it's going to play out :) |
| 22:57.46 | jasta | yeah, that's probably true. but shame on us for rallying behind such a bumbling leader :) |
| 22:58.16 | yakischloba | it was pretty easy to get excited about. |
| 22:58.20 | tomgibara_ | We make out judgements and we will learn our lessons - just at the moment I'm still waiting to learn |
| 22:58.27 | jasta | We should never have supported them in this endeavour. They did nothing to support us, and we don't know that their ends meet our ends. |
| 22:58.39 | jasta | No reason to forge a relationship between us and them. I feel stupid for having done so. |
| 22:59.11 | tomgibara_ | The main thing that will disappoint me is if there is no open way to get applications onto a phone. |
| 22:59.14 | jasta | And frankly the attitudes of some of the folks in this channel has worsened it. Half the time I think Dan thinks this is some big fucking joke. |
| 22:59.42 | tomgibara_ | I'm not saying that Google explicitly promised it, but it's the only logical basis for all their rhetoric |
| 23:00.13 | tomgibara_ | An open platform that has carriers as the gate keepers is utter bullshit |
| 23:00.16 | jasta | tomgibara_: Right. It was also only logical that when you announce a product that *IS* open source, that source comes with it. |
| 23:00.30 | jasta | It's only logical to assume that a company sponsoring developers would care to make sure they have all the right tools to develop. |
| 23:00.51 | jasta | It's only logical to assume lots of things that didn't happen. So clearly, logical assumptions were not the best way to operate here. |
| 23:00.54 | tomgibara_ | Well I can only say that the effort it takes to open source code in a usable way is significant |
| 23:01.05 | tomgibara_ | I can understand why they want to defer that effort until 1.0 is shipping |
| 23:02.22 | jasta | I can understand why they did everything. Because it serves them, not us. |
| 23:02.49 | ttuttle | Also, remember that an open platform that nobody uses is useless. |
| 23:03.03 | tomgibara_ | Well, that's a simple argument 'in the small', but they may have acted 'in the greater good' |
| 23:03.35 | jasta | They acted in their own interests, as you would expect any company to do. |
| 23:03.38 | ttuttle | It's in everyone's interest if Android actually deploys on phones, and people have to wait a little longer for everything to be open source, than if they spend a bunch of time writing code and open source it, and *then* have to sell carriers on it. |
| 23:03.42 | jasta | THat was the logical assumption we all SHOULD have had all along. |
| 23:03.47 | tomgibara_ | ttuttle: Exactly, they want to get Android out there, even if it's at the expense of treading over us (sadly) |
| 23:04.04 | ttuttle | tomgibara_: It's not really treading. |
| 23:04.11 | jasta | Haha, it's not? |
| 23:04.19 | tomgibara_ | Better that we get a bit trodden on than end up with Android shipping years late |
| 23:04.22 | ttuttle | jasta: Would you develop for a phone platform if no phones used it? |
| 23:04.24 | ttuttle | == tomgibara_ |
| 23:04.35 | jasta | They abused the community to produce applications to support their platform and then walked right past them? |
| 23:04.46 | jasta | past the community, I mean. |
| 23:04.50 | jasta | That seems like treading to me. |
| 23:05.01 | tomgibara_ | ttuttle: I'm agreeing with you, but it doesn't reduce the pain that I think many developers felt |
| 23:05.04 | jasta | ttuttle: What they did to us has nothing to do with the phone making it to consumers. |
| 23:05.49 | jasta | I think they quite simply had an ambition that was unrealistic. And rather than retracting it, they just papered over it, making us look like fools. |
| 23:05.50 | tomgibara_ | I have to say, that I don't personally feel that hurt, but you only have to see the commentary to see that many developers are |
| 23:06.07 | ttuttle | jasta: They're still planning to open source it. |
| 23:06.08 | tomgibara_ | jasta: Quite possibly |
| 23:06.34 | jasta | Open source is not just a gesture, and shame on them for being so glib with it. |
| 23:06.59 | jasta | If you announce your product by opening with a comparison to freaking Linux and GNU you damn well better understand what you're talking about. |
| 23:07.26 | tomgibara_ | Though I don't feel like a fool, Google have plenty of opportunities to demonstrate that they will be good os custodians of Android |
| 23:07.31 | ttuttle | jasta: They do understand it. Open source means you get the source code with the product. The product isn't out yet, so neither is the source. |
| 23:07.47 | jasta | Open source is a political statement as much as it is a pile of code coming with your download. Clearly, they did not appreciate the gravity of what they said initially. |
| 23:08.03 | ttuttle | jasta: I think they did appreciate it, but got too busy finishing the release. |
| 23:08.14 | jasta | To say it is open source, and then to pull these stunts, private SDKs, no source code, no collaboration, nothing at all. It is enraging to anyone that truly understands open source. |
| 23:08.28 | tomgibara_ | yep |
| 23:08.48 | ttuttle | jasta: Okay, the ADC SDK NDA (acronym soup!) was nasty. |
| 23:08.48 | tomgibara_ | And I'm sure the Android engineers know it too |
| 23:09.02 | jasta | ttuttle: You don't take your commitments seriously if you don't honor them, period. If you don't think you can honor them, then plan carefully and don't overcommitt. |
| 23:09.06 | jasta | commit* |
| 23:09.24 | ttuttle | jasta: But you're making it sound like they've changed their mind, and aren't open sourcing it. |
| 23:10.00 | jasta | ttuttle: No, I'm telling you that open source is not just dropping code on people at some arbitrary date in the future. |
| 23:10.07 | ttuttle | jasta: What is it, then? |
| 23:10.12 | jasta | You don't conjure up this comparison to a project like Linux and then pull these stunts we saw. |
| 23:10.14 | Dougie187 | Hey Jasta |
| 23:10.43 | tomgibara_ | ttuttle: It's more a process |
| 23:10.47 | ttuttle | tomgibara_: Yeah, I know. |
| 23:10.55 | Dougie187 | or a commitment. |
| 23:11.01 | jasta | It's like me comparing breaking up with my high school girlfriend to divorcing my wife of 30 years. It just ain't the same, and you look like an ass for saying it. |
| 23:11.13 | jasta | Google looks like an ass for pretending to "get it", and then so clearly not. |
| 23:11.32 | tomgibara_ | jasta: But we still don't know why there was secrecy |
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| 23:11.35 | jasta | The justifications don't matter. |
| 23:11.35 | ttuttle | jasta: Why are you assuming they aren't going to do these things in the future. |
| 23:11.50 | tomgibara_ | jasta: I disagree, I think they do |
| 23:11.54 | jasta | ttuttle: I'm not. I have learned a lot through this experience, personally. |
| 23:11.55 | Dougie187 | well we have heard its not going to be completely open sourced by them. |
| 23:12.05 | ttuttle | Dougie187: Oh? |
| 23:12.08 | Dougie187 | yeah |
| 23:12.10 | jasta | Dougie187: Yes, true. |
| 23:12.14 | Dougie187 | like 90 - 95% |
| 23:12.28 | Dougie187 | any propritary drivers and stuff will not be open sourced. |
| 23:12.31 | Dougie187 | or i should say *some* |
| 23:12.36 | Dougie187 | not any. |
| 23:12.38 | jasta | ttuttle: Google Apps are a maybe. The platform itself, yes. All the drivers are optional, up to the manufacturers and chipset makers basically. |
| 23:12.45 | tomgibara_ | Dougie187: Google can't write all the code, and they can't open source the code of others |
| 23:13.01 | ttuttle | == tomgibara_ |
| 23:13.04 | jasta | They committed to basically everything you get with the current SDK will be open sourced. That doesn't include all that much :) |
| 23:13.07 | Dougie187 | true, but these are things, at least as far as i know, google is writing. |
| 23:13.32 | jasta | Regardless, it has nothing to do with what they will or won't eventually release. |
| 23:13.44 | tomgibara_ | jasta: It should be enough for us (the os community to compete) |
| 23:13.47 | jasta | As I said, they conjured up this similarity to something that they must have known they could not fulfill. |
| 23:14.03 | ttuttle | jasta: I'm not understanding what you want, other than all the code, now. |
| 23:14.23 | tomgibara_ | Actually, I think that's the crux of it - is it open enough for the os community to better any of the carrier/google software that ships on the devices |
| 23:14.27 | jasta | Why would you be so stupid to say that your project will be open, of the likes of GNU and Linux, and then so clearly know that source is not coming "soon". That you don't really intend to divert your engineering resources to the community, etc. |
| 23:14.30 | Dougie187 | none of the run-around we have gotten to this point. |
| 23:14.41 | jasta | ttuttle: What I want is already too late. I wanted them not to bloody call it an open project. |
| 23:14.44 | Dougie187 | ;) |
| 23:14.49 | jasta | Had they not, I wouldn't have paid any mind to it. |
| 23:15.05 | ttuttle | jasta: Is the problem that they called it open and then didn't release it for too long? |
| 23:15.17 | jasta | ttuttle: Again, why do you assume that "open source" means releasing source? |
| 23:15.33 | jasta | GNU and Linux are free software, not just software with source. |
| 23:15.37 | jasta | There is a big god damn difference |
| 23:15.57 | ttuttle | jasta: For lack of a better definition. To me, it means software you can get the source for and modify (and use) freely. |
| 23:15.59 | jasta | it is the freedom, community, and ideals the embody this political idea that are important to me. |
| 23:16.07 | jasta | the source is just a manifestation of them. |
| 23:16.36 | Dougie187 | sounds like an awesome conversation tonight. |
| 23:16.39 | jasta | Google failed on all fronts. The openness, the collaboration, the freedom, and unbelievably even the source. |
| 23:16.48 | ttuttle | :-( |
| 23:17.04 | Dougie187 | i haven't quite heard jasta call someone an ass to this point |
| 23:17.08 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 23:17.12 | jasta | It's coming. |
| 23:17.17 | jasta | Dan better just hope he keeps quiet :) |
| 23:17.24 | tomgibara_ | hehe |
| 23:17.25 | jasta | I'm in no mood for his playful take on all this. |
| 23:17.43 | Dougie187 | lol im sure he will, hes prolly not in the mood for a discussion of this calibur tonight. |
| 23:18.02 | Dougie187 | especially with the ADC1 R2 finishing up. |
| 23:18.05 | jasta | Again, the point is the promise that duped me into this community in the first place. Yes, I should have been wise enough to not be fooled, I admit. |
| 23:18.12 | tomgibara_ | jasta: Where I diverge is that I am willing to judge their commitment to the openess after they release the first version |
| 23:18.13 | jasta | But they should just have kept their mouths shut. |
| 23:18.23 | ttuttle | tomgibara_: Thank you :-) |
| 23:18.38 | jasta | tomgibara_: You are willing to be deceived, then. Do you think Sergey is unsure of the tenses of the word "to be"? |
| 23:19.04 | ttuttle | jasta: What do you mean? |
| 23:19.12 | tomgibara_ | jasta: Well I may already have been deceived - and as I've already said - I think the initial 'spin' was misleading |
| 23:19.12 | Dougie187 | i think he means he takes into account the reasons they do the things they do. |
| 23:19.21 | jasta | He said "is", not "will be". |
| 23:19.35 | tomgibara_ | But I'm not going to apportion any blame until the dust settles |
| 23:19.43 | jasta | Android "will be" an open project, would not have weighed the same as "is" to me. |
| 23:19.47 | tomgibara_ | jasta: That's a very valid point actually |
| 23:19.57 | jasta | If any of you remember, I was the one in this channel early on saying "Man, they better release source by February. What the fuck is this?" |
| 23:20.17 | ttuttle | jasta: Hmm. That's a good point. |
| 23:20.20 | jasta | But I was already more than half way into my project at the time. |
| 23:20.30 | jasta | Then they extended the damn thing, so now I have to operate on faith for just a "short while longer" |
| 23:20.39 | jasta | then NOTHING said at all after Apr 14, so my faith is extended yet again. |
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| 23:21.03 | jasta | Until finally my faith and patience broke. And now I revisit some of their initial promises and try to understand how the hell they got me into this mess. |
| 23:21.16 | tomgibara_ | You see, I never took the contents of that particular video too seriously - no offense to Sergey |
| 23:21.17 | jasta | How the hell they fooled me so easily. |
| 23:22.18 | jasta | I had nothing but genuine excitement until about...ohh...May 15th. |
| 23:22.28 | tomgibara_ | My calculation was: Google needs an open platform (in the sense that it's totally open to developers), carriers and manufaturers will only take it if its free (in the full sense), so android will be OS |
| 23:22.34 | jasta | When I finally started to realize what an elaborate hoax this really was. |
| 23:22.41 | ttuttle | jasta: It's not an "elaborate hoax". |
| 23:22.58 | jasta | Well, I didn't literally mean that it was malicious deceipt. |
| 23:23.07 | jasta | I actually think it was bumbling incompetence all along. |
| 23:23.19 | ttuttle | jasta: s/bumbling incompetence/realities of business/; |
| 23:23.42 | jasta | Aren't those interchangable always? |
| 23:23.46 | ttuttle | No. |
| 23:23.48 | tomgibara_ | ttuttle: I think they are very close to the same thing |
| 23:24.08 | ttuttle | They had three things to do: 1. Write platform. 2. Get platform on phone(s). 3. Open source platform. |
| 23:24.23 | ttuttle | They did them in that order, instead of 1. Write platform. 2. Open source platform. 3. Get platform on phone(s). |
| 23:24.33 | tomgibara_ | ttuttle: and so far we know nothing about any of those! |
| 23:24.41 | ttuttle | tomgibara_: :-( |
| 23:24.46 | tomgibara_ | How complete is the platform? |
| 23:24.51 | ttuttle | can't tell. |
| 23:24.59 | jasta | tomgibara_ is under NDA too |
| 23:24.59 | tomgibara_ | What phones are using the platform? |
| 23:25.06 | ttuttle | jasta: It's a different NDA. |
| 23:25.08 | jasta | fyi ttuttle. |
| 23:25.15 | jasta | Oh right, you're that intern |
| 23:25.21 | tomgibara_ | Where are the protocols for how I can contribute back to the Android code base? |
| 23:25.27 | jasta | Now I really want to strangle you :) |
| 23:25.31 | ttuttle | jasta: Sorry. |
| 23:26.03 | jasta | tomgibara_: That last one by the way is a hot button for me. |
| 23:26.16 | tomgibara_ | Yes, I think that's the biggest issue of all |
| 23:26.17 | Dougie187 | ttuttle: your at google? |
| 23:26.21 | ttuttle | Dougie187: I was, over the summer. |
| 23:26.26 | ttuttle | Dougie187: My last day was August 8. |
| 23:26.54 | Dougie187 | with android? |
| 23:26.57 | jasta | tomgibara_: I bet they will, unsurprisingly, disappoint. |
| 23:26.58 | ttuttle | Yeah. |
| 23:27.02 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 23:27.13 | Dougie187 | well... just in case you haven't figured it out yet. |
| 23:27.17 | Dougie187 | jasta loves to argue. |
| 23:27.22 | Dougie187 | and he can go forever. |
| 23:27.23 | ttuttle | Dougie187: I know. So do I. :-) |
| 23:27.27 | jasta | tomgibara_: It will probably be that only Google employees have write access for all time, and that contributions will generally not be open to much serious discussion. |
| 23:27.37 | Dougie187 | and he typically has his arguments well laid out. |
| 23:27.42 | tomgibara_ | ttuttle: You didn't implement the emulator -nojni switch by any chance did you? |
| 23:27.47 | ttuttle | tomgibara_: No. |
| 23:27.53 | ttuttle | tomgibara_: Why? |
| 23:27.57 | jasta | tomgibara_: heheh |
| 23:27.57 | tomgibara_ | jk |
| 23:28.07 | jasta | Oh man, if he had... ;) |
| 23:28.16 | ttuttle | (I've never used it? Is it broken?) |
| 23:28.28 | ttuttle | keeps putting random (wrong) punctuation at the end of sentences^ |
| 23:28.33 | jasta | ttuttle: I was babbling a few days ago about how it seemed to be written by some goober intern because it was poorly named and seems not to work. |
| 23:28.37 | tomgibara_ | Just poorly named, jasta blamed an anonymous intern |
| 23:28.44 | ttuttle | jasta: Hey, interns aren't all dumb! |
| 23:28.53 | Dougie187 | well interns are interns |
| 23:28.58 | Dougie187 | they are the easiest to blame for ever |
| 23:29.02 | Dougie187 | as they don't have a voice. |
| 23:29.06 | Dougie187 | since they are interns. |
| 23:29.10 | jasta | I started out as an intern at a software company working for the navy when I was 16... |
| 23:29.13 | ttuttle | Okay, I guess you can make me the official scapegoat of #android if you want ;-) |
| 23:29.35 | Dougie187 | lol well if you are the scapegoat of #android you get a bunch more baggage than just that. |
| 23:29.43 | jasta | Those crazy idiots let me into production code within 6 months of working there. |
| 23:29.44 | Dougie187 | you carry all the android problems. |
| 23:29.45 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 23:29.53 | ttuttle | jasta: 6 months? Try 1 week. |
| 23:30.09 | ttuttle | jasta: I had a week of orientation in Mountain View, and off I went. (Under supervision, of course.) |
| 23:30.20 | jasta | What did you work on? |
| 23:30.34 | gambler | the new microblogging API |
| 23:30.43 | gambler | j/k ttutle |
| 23:30.50 | ttuttle | Some process/memory utilities, lots of app bugfixes, and some really neat telephony stuff. |
| 23:30.57 | ttuttle | I'll point it out once it's released. |
| 23:31.00 | ttuttle | gambler: lol |
| 23:31.35 | Dougie187 | i hope its a fax reader. |
| 23:31.44 | ttuttle | Ooh, that's a cool idea. |
| 23:32.03 | Dougie187 | hell yeah. i had that idea a while ago. |
| 23:32.20 | Dougie187 | but jtapi 2.0 is not out yet and i dont know if android supports it. |
| 23:32.24 | jasta | man i have wasted half my afternoon ranting in here |
| 23:32.31 | yakischloba | well i'm certainly waiting until after android comes out, to do much further work on my app |
| 23:32.34 | Dougie187 | but i thought it would be sweet to make your phone accept faxes. |
| 23:32.42 | ttuttle | does hope Android does eventually end up with a thriving open source community, and rainbows everywhere. |
| 23:32.44 | yakischloba | jasta: not missing much, with it being so damn cloudy today |
| 23:32.46 | ttuttle | It'd be nice. |
| 23:33.01 | jasta | ttuttle: It won't without a lot of hard work on Google's part. Work I don't know if Google's prepared to do. |
| 23:33.15 | jasta | Free software is a lot more than just dropping source, as I said. It's about treating outsiders with the same privilege as insiders. |
| 23:33.19 | jasta | And that is hard for companies to do. |
| 23:33.23 | jasta | Impossible for most. |
| 23:33.33 | ttuttle | Ooh, JTAPI looks nifty. |
| 23:33.46 | ttuttle | checks the public SDK docs before commenting on anything. |
| 23:33.53 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 23:33.56 | Dougie187 | I thought it looked cool. |
| 23:33.59 | jasta | yakischloba: It's cloudy, but like a thousand degrees. what the hell is with this weekend? |
| 23:34.04 | Dougie187 | i wanted to write an app for that a while ago |
| 23:34.11 | Dougie187 | but i didnt think android supported it. |
| 23:34.16 | Dougie187 | so i figured it would be a waste of time. |
| 23:34.16 | jasta | Dougie187: you need to code up my electric fence idea :) |
| 23:34.29 | ttuttle | Dougie187: /me wonders how hard it would be to write a translation layer. |
| 23:34.30 | Dougie187 | yeah.... too bad im lazy right now. but i do want to do that at some point. |
| 23:34.37 | ttuttle | Dougie187: All that's in the public SDK is android.telephony.*; |
| 23:34.39 | yakischloba | jasta: I duno. I sweated my ass off all day and all night. Then it cooled down for a couple hours this morning and now its back up. I figured it was sunny, being so damn hot, until I looked out the window |
| 23:35.00 | jasta | yakischloba: i was sweating just making breakfast this morning hehe |
| 23:35.02 | jasta | it sucked |
| 23:35.07 | Dougie187 | well i thought that app would be retardedly useful for businessmen. |
| 23:35.13 | Dougie187 | i even told romain about it a while back. |
| 23:35.18 | Dougie187 | though i dont know what he can do about it. |
| 23:35.41 | ttuttle | Dougie187: It's probably filed away along with all the other "when we get to it" bugs ;-) |
| 23:35.51 | tomgibara_ | Dougie187: " retardedly usefu" <- great phrase |
| 23:35.57 | tomgibara_ | *useful |
| 23:36.39 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 23:37.30 | tomgibara_ | Combined with the word businessmen, it has a wonderfully ambiguous quality, I think |
| 23:37.37 | jasta | retardedly useful does certainly apply to faxes. |
| 23:37.39 | jasta | ;) |
| 23:42.37 | ttuttle | Ooh! |
| 23:42.43 | ttuttle | We should start a betting pool on the next SDK release. |
| 23:43.01 | ttuttle | (I'd be disqualified, of course.) |
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