| 00:11.39 | jasta | damn music app sure is buggy |
| 00:11.46 | jasta | i've broken it several times by just tinkering around |
| 00:12.03 | jasta | maybe i don't want to use this as an example afterall :) |
| 00:12.53 | ttuttle | jasta: Please report the bugs! I've got a vague "music crashes" bug that I never finished tracking down while I was there, and you might be able to help them find it. |
| 00:13.31 | jasta | i'd track it down myself if you give me the source :P |
| 00:13.41 | ttuttle | jasta: I would if I could. |
| 00:14.03 | jasta | well then fix it yourselves hehe. i don't have any useful information on what seems to trigger it |
| 00:14.19 | jasta | it just seems to open often to the player screen that is playing nothing |
| 00:14.24 | ttuttle | jasta: Have you ever encountered a situation where it simply hangs whenever you try to actually play something? |
| 00:14.30 | jasta | and then if you click around a bit you catch it in an inconsistent state and it crashes |
| 00:14.49 | jasta | ttuttle: hangs as in, throws up the app is hanging dialog? |
| 00:15.03 | jasta | i've had it just simply not do what i wanted it to do |
| 00:15.07 | ttuttle | jasta: Either that, or it just sits there with a blank screen. |
| 00:15.11 | ttuttle | jasta: I've had both happen. |
| 00:15.29 | jasta | well right now, it's in this state where it claims to be playing a song |
| 00:15.39 | jasta | and if i click to go the player, it isn't playing anything. |
| 00:15.42 | jasta | the shuffel buttons are blank |
| 00:15.46 | jasta | the player slider is positioned at 0 |
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| 00:15.48 | ttuttle | jasta: Yeah, that sounds familiar. |
| 00:15.57 | jasta | clicking play does nothing |
| 00:16.06 | ttuttle | jasta: Oh, also, there was this one build where the music app worked perfectly, except no sound came out ;-) |
| 00:16.20 | jasta | and actually, i can't seem to choose a track now |
| 00:16.25 | ttuttle | jasta: And it ran through the files faster than normal (presumably because it wasn't waiting to output anything). |
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| 00:16.46 | jasta | this just looks like service mismanagement to me |
| 00:17.05 | jasta | service management is really a tricky topic, i think. i have spent a lot of time wrestling with just how the fuck i am supposed to critically bind an activity to a service |
| 00:17.32 | jasta | which is why i think you guys should do the community a favor and produce some reasonable examples of this (YOU AVOID IT COMPLETELY IN ApiDemos!) |
| 00:17.55 | ttuttle | jasta: Remember, ApiDemos is a bit of stuff made as demos, plus some code somebody's had a chance to clean up. |
| 00:18.32 | jasta | whatev, i don't want to get into this conversation again |
| 00:18.48 | ttuttle | jasta: Then don't complain about it! |
| 00:19.23 | ttuttle | jasta: There are a bunch of people working really hard to get this done, and I don't like it when you make it sound like they're sitting around trying to ruin your life. |
| 00:20.12 | jasta | yeah but surely someone at google must know how this is supposed to be done? a flipping hello world would take 5 minutes for that person to make. |
| 00:20.38 | ttuttle | jasta: Perhaps 5 minutes to write, but then add on time for documentation, approval... |
| 00:21.38 | ttuttle | jasta: Personally I don't know of a way to bind an activity to a service such that the activity automatically dies or reconnects or whatever. |
| 00:21.46 | jasta | you honestly are trying to tell me that adding a new demo is so much overhead that it's not worth it? :) |
| 00:21.54 | ttuttle | jasta: Not when there's a release to finish. |
| 00:22.06 | jasta | well, sure, whatever. |
| 00:22.16 | ttuttle | jasta: It's a good demo to have, sure, but not at the expense of bugs that go unfixed. |
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| 00:22.34 | jasta | i honestly don't think this process is even well understood at google |
| 00:22.51 | jasta | which seems like it should be done not for the benefit of the community, but for the benefit of the internal dev team :) |
| 00:23.28 | jasta | but whatever, i think i have figured it out for myself these days anyway |
| 00:28.09 | jasta | hmm, a question just popped into my head... |
| 00:28.25 | jasta | is there any way one app can replace another's launcher in the applications list? |
| 00:30.35 | ttuttle | I don't think so. |
| 00:31.00 | jasta | there is a lot of reasonable value in such a feature. like, my app will one day be a total replacement for the built-in music player. |
| 00:31.20 | ttuttle | jasta: Yes, but there's no way in hell a good platform would let you pretend you're another app. |
| 00:31.42 | ttuttle | jasta: It wouldn't be "okay" for you to replace Music. You could replace the functionality, but you can't just pretend you're it. |
| 00:31.48 | jasta | every platform i can think of lets you do that. |
| 00:31.53 | ttuttle | Um, no. |
| 00:31.57 | jasta | um, yes. |
| 00:32.22 | ttuttle | Linux will let you install many media players. A good package manager, though, won't let (for example) mplayer overwrite xine's executable, just because mplayer thinks theirs is better. |
| 00:32.30 | jasta | echo "echo You stink" > /usr/local/bin/ls :) |
| 00:32.39 | ttuttle | Yeah, but that's not the platform, that's you. |
| 00:32.49 | ttuttle | The platform should never let another package overwrite ls. |
| 00:33.08 | jasta | lol, do you have any idea what you're talking about? |
| 00:33.12 | ttuttle | Yes. |
| 00:33.18 | ttuttle | You want to replace another app's icon with your own. |
| 00:33.19 | ttuttle | That's wrong. |
| 00:33.20 | jasta | most linux package managers do not care what files you replace. |
| 00:33.35 | jasta | you could make a deb do whatever the heck you want. you can run arbitrary scripts even. |
| 00:33.43 | jasta | damn thing runs as root too. |
| 00:33.47 | ttuttle | jasta: Portage catches them. |
| 00:34.09 | jasta | well sure, and I'm sure Debian has some tools that try to catch them from doing something stupid |
| 00:34.14 | jasta | but the package manager and platform don't give a shit |
| 00:34.30 | ttuttle | Okay, but either way it's not something your app will be able to do. |
| 00:34.33 | jasta | the bottom line is that you must trust the source that sent you the deb. nothing about the package manager implies that it can't deceive you. |
| 00:35.14 | jasta | nothing about most computer platform implies that. you can happily go install things that damage your system. it's all about trust of the source, not of the platform. |
| 00:35.17 | ttuttle | What if someone replaces Contacts with an app that acts like the regular one but silently sends your info to someone's website as well? |
| 00:35.33 | ttuttle | jasta: Yes, but Android intends to maintain security between apps, as installed by a regular user. |
| 00:35.34 | jasta | ttuttle: Isn't that what a Linux rootkit is? Those exist. |
| 00:35.57 | ttuttle | jasta: Yes, but those exploit bugs, either in apps or in security configuration (e.g. bad passwords). |
| 00:36.15 | jasta | Uhh, not necessarily. |
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| 00:36.21 | jasta | They can just as well exploit user stupidity. |
| 00:36.29 | ttuttle | that's a bug in the configuration too ;-) |
| 00:36.32 | jasta | "Hey click here, I am a free porn bot!" |
| 00:36.43 | haavi | *clicks* |
| 00:36.50 | ttuttle | stabs haavi. |
| 00:37.28 | ttuttle | jasta: Nevertheless, Android will not allow apps to steal each other's icons, for many reasons (consistency, security, branding...). |
| 00:37.29 | jasta | ttuttle: Well, your argument sucks anyway. I could make an app with the same name and icon as another. Then the user is confused and will probably launch mine. |
| 00:37.42 | ttuttle | jasta: Ooh, good point. Lemme file a bug. |
| 00:37.52 | jasta | This "feature" has nothing at all to do with security, because that security model *SUCKS*. |
| 00:38.15 | jasta | but the whole point is that the user has to trust that the apps they install are not malicious |
| 00:38.31 | ttuttle | jasta: Yes, but it's nice if they can tell them apart as well. |
| 00:38.32 | jasta | *NOTHING* about the platform guarantees otherwise. Legitimate apps must request permissions just like malicious ones must. The user has to be able to distinguish for themselves. |
| 00:38.50 | jasta | So why not just introduce some new permission to say "I fully replace some other app" |
| 00:39.00 | ttuttle | Why? |
| 00:39.07 | ttuttle | That'd be horribly confusing. |
| 00:39.09 | jasta | for one, because it allows the user to have an easy "downgrade" path. |
| 00:39.18 | ttuttle | So does simply having two different apps. |
| 00:39.25 | jasta | most users would probably just choose to "delete" the old app |
| 00:39.34 | jasta | and then if they delete the new one, how do they go back? |
| 00:39.38 | ttuttle | Why can't Five Music simply be called "Five Music", instead of replacing Music? |
| 00:39.45 | ttuttle | jasta: Why did they delete it? |
| 00:39.59 | jasta | ttuttle: because they know it to be unnecessary. this is how users think, ttuttle. |
| 00:40.07 | ttuttle | jasta: then they can get another copy. |
| 00:40.18 | jasta | if you download a "better" contacts app, for example, you don't want to constantly see "Contact" and "Contacts IMPROVED!" |
| 00:40.32 | ttuttle | jasta: Um, that's how the Palm worked, and it worked fine. |
| 00:40.41 | jasta | Nothing about Palm works fine |
| 00:40.45 | ttuttle | jasta: Plenty of people had "Date Book+" or Agendus alongside the regular versions. |
| 00:41.11 | jasta | what would happen if i tried to delete the music app then? |
| 00:41.29 | jasta | probably wouldn't let me, i bet. *tsk tsk* |
| 00:41.39 | ttuttle | Um, that's intended behavior, if it does. |
| 00:41.40 | jasta | if it did, how would i get it back? |
| 00:41.42 | ttuttle | It's part of the system. |
| 00:41.59 | ttuttle | It's used by the browser to play videos, and lots of other stuff. |
| 00:42.41 | jasta | huh? it is? |
| 00:42.41 | ttuttle | There is no reason your app should be able to override the icon of another app. That will just serve to confuse the user. |
| 00:42.41 | ttuttle | Yeah, actually. |
| 00:42.41 | ttuttle | (It's unintuitive, but Music ~= "Media Player".) |
| 00:43.24 | jasta | so, all this talk that google has about users being able to "remix" all the google services off the phone is actually not true post production? |
| 00:43.40 | ttuttle | jasta: Music is not a Google service. |
| 00:43.46 | ttuttle | jasta: Also, that's just how it's configured so far. |
| 00:44.02 | ttuttle | jasta: Anyone could replace Music when building a new ROM/flash image. |
| 00:44.12 | jasta | that's what i meant by post production |
| 00:44.25 | ttuttle | jasta: Do you mean "off the phone" as in remove them? |
| 00:44.33 | jasta | i just mean take the icon away. |
| 00:44.37 | ttuttle | jasta: I guess it'll depend on how the phone's configured. |
| 00:44.48 | ttuttle | jasta: If whoever's making it decides they're permanent, they're permanent. |
| 00:45.05 | haavi | booooh |
| 00:45.56 | ttuttle | haavi: We can't stop them! |
| 00:46.21 | ttuttle | jasta: Okay, here's an example. |
| 00:46.43 | ttuttle | jasta: Suppose you wrote an app that created dozens of duplicates of the built-in apps. |
| 00:46.48 | ttuttle | jasta: What then? |
| 00:48.24 | jasta | ttuttle: what do you mean? then you'd just have dozens of duplicates? |
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| 00:48.28 | ttuttle | jasta: Yeah. |
| 00:48.32 | ttuttle | jasta: That's not a very good user experience. |
| 00:48.39 | jasta | what if i created an app that phoned your mother every night at 2am? |
| 00:48.48 | jasta | what then? |
| 00:48.51 | ttuttle | jasta: That's in the security model. |
| 00:48.58 | ttuttle | jasta: Creating dozens of copies of icons is not. |
| 00:49.03 | jasta | so why can't this be in the security model? |
| 00:49.32 | ttuttle | jasta: You mean a permission like "Duplicate built-in application icons"? |
| 00:49.40 | jasta | it's a reasonable thing to assume that folks may wish to replace built-in apps. |
| 00:49.46 | ttuttle | Hmm. |
| 00:49.49 | jasta | even if they don't really delete them, just making it seem that way. |
| 00:49.57 | ttuttle | Why not just use another icon? |
| 00:50.09 | ttuttle | It seems so much less confusing to me. |
| 00:50.14 | jasta | because then you have a bunch of clutter. what if you really wanted to rebrand the damn thing without making users reflash? |
| 00:50.24 | jasta | and what if your users knew that you would be doing this, agreed with you, and wanted their phone that way. |
| 00:50.41 | ttuttle | jasta: you're forgetting one piece of the phone industry. |
| 00:51.10 | jasta | which is? |
| 00:51.13 | ttuttle | CARRIERS! |
| 00:51.21 | ttuttle | they never want you to do anything fun with your phone! |
| 00:51.35 | jasta | so, Android would currently let me go so far as to "add" brand (not rebrand). |
| 00:51.43 | jasta | Then the users would just annoyingly not click on all the Google crud |
| 00:51.57 | ttuttle | jasta: You're confusing "Android as will be released as open source" and "Android as will be configured on end-user phones". |
| 00:52.15 | ttuttle | jasta: Users will have as much potential for customization as the manufacturers and carriers allow. |
| 00:52.22 | jasta | huh? are you saying that we will not be able to add apps to our phone by our own choice? |
| 00:52.31 | ttuttle | jasta: No, you'll be able to add apps. |
| 00:52.40 | ttuttle | jasta: I'm talking about modifying "system-ish" stuff. |
| 00:53.01 | jasta | this just seems like an area where android could step in to make things a lot nicer for larger customizations |
| 00:53.12 | jasta | so the users who want that don't have to just have a ton of extra icons they never use |
| 00:53.37 | ttuttle | jasta: If someone's making a phone that is likely to be customized in that way, they can do that. |
| 00:53.59 | jasta | now you're forgetting one big thing about the phone industry |
| 00:54.04 | ttuttle | jasta: Unfortunately, most carriers like to retain some sort of branding and control over their phones. Android, as will be on phones, will be a step in the right direction with the allowing-any-apps thing. |
| 00:54.08 | ttuttle | jasta: WhaT? |
| 00:54.10 | jasta | carriers and manufacturers are notoriously lazy, and barely hack the platforms they run. |
| 00:54.10 | ttuttle | *What? |
| 00:54.21 | jasta | they'd have to do a major hack job on the android code to permit this type of customizations |
| 00:54.24 | jasta | and for that, they'll never do it |
| 00:54.27 | ttuttle | jasta: Okay. |
| 00:54.45 | jasta | why not have Google do that massive hackjob, so all android phones can do this unless somebody toggles a default off? |
| 00:55.15 | ttuttle | Er, because nobody asked for it yet? |
| 00:55.19 | jasta | there is no way in hell the carriers are going to go "out of their way" to add lots of features to Android itself. they will value-add on top of it, but they won't go in and hack the crap out of it. |
| 00:55.26 | SanMehat | yoyo |
| 00:58.26 | ttuttle | jasta: I'm not sure why it's Google's responsibility to add these features. |
| 00:58.41 | jasta | why is it google's responsibility to do anything? |
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| 00:58.54 | jasta | ...they want to create a platform that users and developers like, right? :) |
| 00:58.56 | ttuttle | jasta: They're trying to produce something that will succeed. Unfortunately, carriers won't like something that can be completely overridden by a single download. |
| 00:59.08 | ttuttle | jasta: users, developers, *and carriers*, otherwise users will never see it. |
| 00:59.29 | jasta | well tahts fair :) |
| 01:00.15 | ttuttle | jasta: And carriers, like it or not, are not used to everything being really open. Honestly, most users aren't either, and may be confused if all of their phone can be replaced with a single download, even if they check off the "Yeah, whatever, let it run" box. |
| 01:03.30 | jasta | yes that's true. it's a tough thing for google to balance i suppose. |
| 01:03.55 | ttuttle | jasta: Exactly. |
| 01:05.28 | jasta | but, you do have a good long term position |
| 01:05.55 | jasta | you've just tied a dollar to a string and you get to keep tugging it every few months ;) |
| 01:06.09 | ttuttle | jasta: Heh. |
| 01:06.25 | ttuttle | jasta: Hopefully we'll all end up at a big pile of $100 bills at the end ;-) |
| 01:06.50 | jasta | you know what is kind of upsetting thougH? everyone touts android's openness as being really revolutionary |
| 01:06.57 | jasta | but like, Windows Mobile is exactly like that? |
| 01:07.03 | SanMehat | not as open as your mom |
| 01:07.06 | SanMehat | ohhhhh snap |
| 01:07.09 | jasta | the only difference between WM and Android is that WM is just a crummy piece of software |
| 01:07.10 | ttuttle | SanMehat: oh! |
| 01:07.25 | jasta | but as far as politics go, it's the same old business. |
| 01:07.37 | ttuttle | high-fives SanMehat. |
| 01:07.39 | jasta | It's really composable by the carriers/manufacturer, totally flexible once the user gets it, etc. |
| 01:07.47 | jasta | It's just bad, and users don't like it because it's slow/unstablke :) |
| 01:07.49 | jasta | unstable* |
| 01:08.04 | jasta | but still carriers seem to put up with that? maybe just because its microsoft |
| 01:08.13 | ttuttle | jasta: Exchange. |
| 01:08.41 | jasta | they put up with it because it has exchange? |
| 01:08.46 | ttuttle | jasta: Yes. |
| 01:08.56 | ttuttle | jasta: Corporate drones will do *anything* to talk to Exchange. |
| 01:09.01 | jasta | well shit, Android can have Exchange. Microsoft just got pounded into the ground on the licensing royalties |
| 01:09.30 | jasta | and open source projects (WHICH YOU ARE *grin*), are freed from patent responsibilities by their recent senility |
| 01:09.48 | jasta | the exchange activesync protocol is partially documented as a result, and the rest of it is expected shortly |
| 01:10.26 | ttuttle | jasta: Ooh, this sounds awesome! |
| 01:10.32 | jasta | you didn't know about all this? |
| 01:10.39 | jasta | how did you think the iPhone just got Exchange support? |
| 01:10.39 | ttuttle | jasta: I personally hadn't heard about it, no. |
| 01:10.45 | jasta | are you kidding me? |
| 01:11.06 | jasta | Microsoft released full disclosure documentation for ALL of their core network protocols. |
| 01:11.20 | jasta | which included Samba, Active Directory, Exchange, etc. |
| 01:11.52 | jasta | and they got chopped off at the knees by the EU so they had to reduce their licensing and royalty fees down to "fair" levels, allowing other firms to move in and become compatible |
| 01:12.06 | ttuttle | jasta: Wow, this is some great ass-kicking! |
| 01:12.23 | jasta | they went so far as to document what shit was covered by what patents |
| 01:12.55 | jasta | and they also claim in the license agreement that non-profit (open source qualifies!) organizations are permitted to use anything without fear of patent enforcement |
| 01:13.29 | jasta | so if Google was crafty in their business structure, Android could be a spin-off company not making profit. Then they could just implement the shit for free. |
| 01:13.29 | ttuttle | jasta: Wow! |
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| 01:13.40 | ttuttle | jasta: *Android* doesn't make profit now, I think. |
| 01:13.41 | jasta | Although frankly with the reduced licensing fees, Google could just outright afford it. |
| 01:13.48 | ttuttle | jasta: It's open-source -- how could we really charge for it? |
| 01:14.01 | jasta | ttuttle: well but it would have to be its own registered company, a subsidiary of google |
| 01:14.04 | jasta | that's M$'s rules |
| 01:14.11 | jasta | hang on, let me find this documentation |
| 01:14.15 | jasta | i can't believe you hadn't heard of this |
| 01:14.54 | SanMehat | i've been busy |
| 01:14.55 | jasta | http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2008/jun08/06-30InteropUpdatePR.mspx |
| 01:15.06 | jasta | i was wrong even, they are more relaxed than i thought: |
| 01:15.09 | jasta | "It is important to note that open source developers, whether commercial or non-commercial, will not need a patent license for the development of implementations of these protocols or for the non-commercial distribution of these implementations, according to Microsoft?s Patent Pledge for Open Source Developers." |
| 01:15.31 | jasta | this covers the recently published Exchange protocols, including ActiveSync |
| 01:15.35 | jasta | so Android, *right now* could freely support this. |
| 01:15.42 | jasta | and you've got all the docs to help you |
| 01:15.59 | jasta | surely this must be well known at google? my god, i figured you guys would be chomping at the bit to implement that. |
| 01:16.13 | jasta | it's so easy to bust into an entirely different market. support exchange, now suddenly you're "enterprisey" |
| 01:17.02 | jasta | it's really like Microsoft has totally gone insane. but it's a good idea to take advantage of it :) |
| 01:18.57 | ttuttle | jasta: Oh, yeah, we'd have to spin off. |
| 01:19.15 | ttuttle | jasta: Maybe they're desperately trying to avoid getting in more trouble by (gosh, I never thought I'd say this) behaving reasonably. |
| 01:19.28 | jasta | the EU really fucked them up good |
| 01:20.05 | jasta | they were successfully fining them $1M per day for months. |
| 01:20.24 | jasta | the total judgment was damn near a billion dollars in fines |
| 01:20.46 | ttuttle | jasta: great! ;-) |
| 01:21.00 | jasta | oh i was wrong :) |
| 01:21.01 | jasta | it was more than that. |
| 01:21.49 | jasta | total fine over the last 4 years was over 2 billion :) |
| 01:21.57 | jasta | they really, really fucked them up :) |
| 01:22.27 | jasta | fucking pussy american government :) |
| 01:22.57 | jasta | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_Microsoft_antitrust_case -- read this |
| 01:52.02 | ttuttle | ...and, we're back! |
| 01:52.18 | ttuttle | (aircon blew the circuit breaker on the surge protector running the ethernet switch I'm on. :-( ) |
| 01:56.42 | SanMehat | vege steamed dumplings, beef broccoli spicy garlic sauce, mixed vegetables in black bean sauce |
| 01:56.56 | SanMehat | sorry, didnt have a scratchpad open |
| 01:56.58 | SanMehat | :) |
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| 02:02.28 | ttuttle | ;-) |
| 02:02.28 | ttuttle | did you bring enough to share with the channel? :-P |
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| 02:09.54 | jasta | ponders the efficiency of passing ParcelFileDescriptors around. |
| 02:11.00 | romainguy | a ParcelFileDescriptor is a very light object |
| 02:12.12 | jasta | there's no IPC overhead involved with each read/write on the opened stream? |
| 02:12.20 | romainguy | no |
| 02:12.23 | jasta | ok, excellent. |
| 02:12.28 | romainguy | the ParcelFileDecriptor contains the fd |
| 02:12.36 | romainguy | on the other side you directly use that fd |
| 02:12.47 | jasta | i wonder how the hell they hacked that. |
| 02:13.04 | jasta | sharing file descriptors across processes? pure voodoo. :) |
| 02:13.13 | romainguy | beats me |
| 02:13.15 | romainguy | I just use it :) |
| 02:14.26 | romainguy_ | I added the ability to read/write fd in parcels to improve the performance of wallpapers for Home |
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| 02:26.40 | jasta | thinking about the binder, i wonder if this is just the most miserably insecure thing ever invented? :) |
| 02:26.53 | jasta | how does it check the mapped regions, for example? |
| 02:27.04 | yakischloba | how was your show jasta |
| 02:27.29 | jasta | obviously since you guys control how software loads/runs on the phone, you can just say "No C" and not give the Java layer direct access to the binder device... |
| 02:27.52 | jasta | but i wonder if you did conceivably have direct access to the binder what you could get away with... |
| 02:28.09 | jasta | yakischloba: great, actually |
| 02:28.15 | jasta | yakischloba: went drinkin after, got home around 1 |
| 02:28.51 | yakischloba | jasta: cool. I should've stopped by - went out for a bit but it was boring |
| 02:29.29 | jasta | just finished removing a now unnecessary layer of indirection in Five |
| 02:29.30 | yakischloba | went swimming all day at Seward Park today. Figured I should go out as summer is dwindling fast |
| 02:29.48 | jasta | yes. me and my buddies are planning to go backpacking when we get back from Ireland |
| 02:29.55 | jasta | hopefully we can find a not-pooring-down-rain weekend :) |
| 02:30.44 | yakischloba | Hard to do. I just posted some pics for my buddies today, from last year's August hiking trip...poured on us the whole time. |
| 02:31.29 | jasta | romainguy_: do you know if exceptions are still not possible through aidl? |
| 02:31.58 | jasta | this new interface i'm designing has a pretty complex set of ways it can fail and custom exceptions would be huge there |
| 02:32.47 | heat | fail less complexly then |
| 02:32.52 | heat | made a new word |
| 02:35.35 | jasta | heat: well, i think i'm just going to go with currently not telling the caller why it failed, just that it did |
| 02:35.40 | jasta | because the user won't much care either way.... |
| 02:36.16 | jasta | i might just communicate failures through a content provider though |
| 02:36.19 | jasta | sucky, but meh |
| 02:39.57 | heat | cant you add an exception to a Parcel? |
| 02:45.56 | jasta | meh ;) |
| 02:46.06 | jasta | i could do it by just making my own parcel that houses some complex return type |
| 02:46.11 | jasta | but i dont want to, and really, its not that critical |
| 02:46.23 | jasta | the primary reason for failure is no sd card or out of disk space on it |
| 02:46.32 | jasta | and i think the user can reasonably figure that out by guessing :P |
| 02:47.03 | heat | you give your user too much credit |
| 02:48.15 | heat | i dunno any of this framework stuff... I'm in the native world :-) |
| 02:48.39 | jasta | well, eventually i will log the errors, and give the user a chance to check on an error console |
| 02:48.44 | jasta | so they won't be totally lost ;) |
| 02:50.18 | jasta | this feels really nice simplifying my stuffs :) |
| 02:50.28 | jasta | my design was needlessly complicated before :) |
| 02:57.13 | umdk1d4 | ooh android software positions at google http://www.google.com/support/jobs/bin/search.py?lr=lang_en&type=f&query=android |
| 02:57.58 | jasta | did you think they weren't hiring? :) |
| 02:58.12 | umdk1d4 | well i remember lookign awhile back and not seeing anyhting |
| 02:58.43 | jasta | man it feels good to really start burning through code again |
| 03:53.13 | jasta | i forgot how to get the storage card location |
| 03:53.16 | jasta | anyone remember off hand? |
| 03:59.37 | jasta | oh yeah, android.os.Environment |
| 04:07.09 | jasta | actually no, that's not right. that's for USB mass storage |
| 04:07.09 | jasta | hmm |
| 04:14.39 | jasta | or is it? *confused* |
| 05:13.04 | *** join/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@c-68-35-245-156.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 05:14.33 | jasta | sup Dougie187, you're up late :) |
| 05:15.07 | Dougie187 | yeah i know. |
| 05:15.13 | Dougie187 | we just got home from a "party" |
| 05:15.21 | jasta | a |
| 05:15.23 | jasta | a "party"? |
| 05:15.28 | Dougie187 | prolly gonna pass out in a bit. |
| 05:15.28 | Dougie187 | yeah |
| 05:15.34 | jasta | why the quotes? |
| 05:15.52 | jasta | oh i get it. you're swingers. say no more. |
| 05:15.52 | Dougie187 | well. for the ladies it was a party because they went to a club |
| 05:16.02 | Dougie187 | but me and these guys stayed at home and watched army of darkness |
| 05:16.33 | jasta | that's ballsy letting your wife go clubbing ;) |
| 05:16.37 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 05:16.42 | Dougie187 | eh i trust her. |
| 05:16.43 | Dougie187 | shes goo |
| 05:16.44 | Dougie187 | good |
| 05:17.04 | jasta | you should probably just learn to like dancing and go with her ;) |
| 05:17.13 | Dougie187 | lol thats not going to happen. |
| 05:17.17 | Dougie187 | she goes with her married friends. |
| 05:17.19 | Dougie187 | so its good |
| 05:17.19 | jasta | the alternative ain't great :) |
| 05:18.00 | jasta | i've had enough female friends in my life to know that you don't a) let your girlfriend go to lots of parties without, b) don't let your girlfriend go clubbing without you, etc ;) |
| 05:18.56 | Dougie187 | well one big difference is you are referring to girlfriends. and in this case its a wife. |
| 05:19.01 | jasta | like yeah once or twice sure, whatever. when it's a general habit to go to places with tons of booze and available men? hmm, no :) |
| 05:19.10 | jasta | is wife different than girlfriend? |
| 05:19.33 | Dougie187 | lol is boyfriend different than husband? |
| 05:19.37 | jasta | no. |
| 05:19.45 | jasta | marriage does not suddenly transcend sexual desire. |
| 05:19.46 | Dougie187 | you are mistaken. |
| 05:19.50 | Dougie187 | lol. |
| 05:19.57 | jasta | divorce statistics disagree with you, sir. |
| 05:20.01 | Dougie187 | no but marriage adds another level of trust to it |
| 05:20.14 | jasta | lol, are you retarded? |
| 05:20.36 | Dougie187 | lol probably slightly. |
| 05:20.44 | Dougie187 | but i dont think anything is going to happen. |
| 05:20.48 | Dougie187 | plus she hardly goes out. |
| 05:21.17 | jasta | i'm not trying to make you worry, but your arguments suck :P |
| 05:21.56 | jasta | it isn't any more morally or socially acceptable for a girl to cheat on her serious boyfriend than it is for her to cheat on her husband. |
| 05:22.38 | Dougie187 | sure. but personally i would expect a girlfriend to be more likely to cheat then a wife. also, divorce statistics don't specify reason. |
| 05:23.10 | jasta | and marriage implicitly changes nothing about the dynamic of two people, except perhaps superficially by the traditional notions both persons had. |
| 05:23.41 | jasta | especially true if neither of you are religious, since you have no affinity to the tradition then in any case. |
| 05:23.57 | jasta | the only "bind" that really gets people is if you fear god, then you would fear violating your agreement you made with him. |
| 05:24.00 | Dougie187 | marriage does not have to be a religious thing. |
| 05:24.20 | Dougie187 | i disagree. you are thinking too traditionally about marriage. |
| 05:24.30 | Dougie187 | marriage can mean a lot to you even if you aren't religious. |
| 05:24.31 | jasta | Dougie187: you are thinking exclusively traditionally about marriage. |
| 05:24.51 | jasta | you believe that because of tradition, the relationship between two persons is affected. |
| 05:24.58 | Dougie187 | no, its just what it means to you. |
| 05:25.03 | jasta | but that is only true if both have great respect for the tradition and not the function it merits. |
| 05:25.25 | jasta | the function is that god fearing people must respect it. |
| 05:25.53 | Dougie187 | i disagree with that. |
| 05:26.04 | jasta | the tradition, though, means nothing to the interpersonal relationship. neither persons inherent behaviours have been affected. |
| 05:26.34 | Dougie187 | ill say they don't have to. |
| 05:26.37 | jasta | Dougie187: How can you say that? What about the process (and not tradition) of marriage changed your relationship? |
| 05:26.40 | Dougie187 | but that doesn't mean they cant. |
| 05:26.59 | Dougie187 | well i think going through the process has made me have a greater respect for my wife. |
| 05:27.01 | jasta | If it traditionally doesn't hold weight for you, then only the literal process that ocurred on that day does. So what about it? |
| 05:27.59 | jasta | And honestly, a separate argument, what kind of scum do you think can reason it OK to cheat on a long-term girlfriend but not OK to cheat on a wife? |
| 05:28.17 | Dougie187 | lol what? |
| 05:28.21 | Dougie187 | your thinking about the wrong side. |
| 05:28.34 | jasta | I just changed the gender because it's easier to imagine scummy guys than girls. |
| 05:28.46 | jasta | I thought it would make the argument stronger for that reason :) |
| 05:29.04 | Dougie187 | i dont mean wrong side as in male vs. female. |
| 05:29.16 | Dougie187 | i mean wrong side as in you are thinking about the 3rd party. rather then the wife or husband. |
| 05:29.27 | Dougie187 | cheating requires two people. |
| 05:29.37 | Dougie187 | of course there is always going to be a scum bag who wants to cheat with my wife. |
| 05:29.41 | jasta | I mean, if you think "it's my wife, not my girlfriend, so she wouldn't cheat on me", then you must imagine a majority class of people who would think it was wrong to cheat on a husband but OK to cheat on a serious boyfriend. |
| 05:29.45 | Dougie187 | but my wife has to chose to cheat. |
| 05:30.06 | jasta | Which I know that you don't. So your argument fails easily. |
| 05:30.20 | jasta | More easily than attempting to discredit the function of marriage. |
| 05:30.23 | Dougie187 | im not saying they think its "OK" to cheat on a serious boyfriend. im just saying that they think its more "OK" to cheat on a serious boyfriend then a husband. |
| 05:30.46 | jasta | Dougie187: I don't think you've been around very many unhealthy relationships, personally :) |
| 05:31.45 | jasta | There's clearly very little to do with whether they are married. |
| 05:32.27 | Dougie187 | ill give you that i haven't been around many unhealthy relationships, but i don't think you can fully understand/respect the process of marriage until you go through it |
| 05:32.40 | jasta | Social pressures are very weak in the face of sexual desire. Very weak. |
| 05:33.06 | jasta | Unhealthy relationships demonstrate that time and time again :) |
| 05:33.14 | Dougie187 | that completely varies by person. |
| 05:33.19 | jasta | Not many people really feel that it is OK to cheat, but they still do it. And they feel bad, but they'd still do it again. |
| 05:33.37 | jasta | Dougie187: Yes, but it varies greater by sexual desire :) |
| 05:33.49 | jasta | *cough* catholic priests *cough* |
| 05:33.52 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 05:34.15 | Dougie187 | neither my wife or I are religious, so we can't really bring that aspect into it. |
| 05:34.25 | jasta | then you have nothing :) |
| 05:34.45 | Dougie187 | lol, i just think you don't understand so you say i have nothing. but I can't make you understand. |
| 05:34.53 | jasta | the tradition just serves your assumptions that it is somehow a different relationship. |
| 05:35.01 | Dougie187 | no. |
| 05:35.02 | jasta | your assumptions that have merely imaginary weight |
| 05:35.10 | Dougie187 | seriously. you can't understand it until you go through it. |
| 05:35.26 | jasta | you can't understand it until you've seen people come out of it. |
| 05:35.27 | jasta | ;) |
| 05:35.42 | Dougie187 | and im happy i haven't. and i hope i never will. |
| 05:36.02 | jasta | then you can't really know what the hell you're talking about :) |
| 05:36.11 | Dougie187 | lol well neither can you. |
| 05:36.17 | Dougie187 | so i guess we are at a stalemate. |
| 05:36.24 | jasta | i actually have been married :) |
| 05:36.29 | jasta | and divorced :) |
| 05:36.32 | Dougie187 | When were you married? |
| 05:36.40 | Dougie187 | for like 2 years? |
| 05:36.41 | jasta | A time ago. :) |
| 05:36.49 | jasta | I was with the person for a total of 6 years. |
| 05:37.04 | Dougie187 | and how many of those were married years? |
| 05:37.09 | *** join/#android designs703 (n=thomas@c-69-143-104-181.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 05:37.09 | jasta | 2. |
| 05:37.24 | Dougie187 | how long have you been divorced? |
| 05:37.29 | jasta | But how does that matter? If the tradition reinforced our relationship as you say, then what other variables are there? |
| 05:37.37 | designs703 | um |
| 05:37.38 | Dougie187 | its not the tradition. |
| 05:37.40 | Dougie187 | i never said that. |
| 05:37.44 | Dougie187 | you said that. |
| 05:37.46 | designs703 | am I in the Android chat room? |
| 05:37.52 | jasta | Then what other variables are there? |
| 05:38.01 | Dougie187 | designs703: android chat room is on vacation until monday. |
| 05:38.05 | jasta | Forget the tradition, what variables tell you that your relationship is strong as a result of marriage where others may not be. |
| 05:38.18 | Dougie187 | because of what it means to us. |
| 05:38.30 | jasta | Hehe, *tsk tsk*, that sounds like an assumption :) |
| 05:38.35 | *** join/#android muthu (n=sushmu@59.92.13.15) |
| 05:38.41 | Dougie187 | how is that an assumption at all? |
| 05:38.53 | muthu | nam |
| 05:39.05 | designs703 | k |
| 05:39.23 | jasta | Dougie187: well do recall that you started this conversation out more abstract than your own personal relationship. |
| 05:39.47 | jasta | You said initially that wife carries more weight than serious girlfriend, but are now saying "I know _MY_ wife, and therefore..." |
| 05:39.57 | jasta | You argument just jumped completely. |
| 05:40.02 | jasta | Your* |
| 05:40.15 | Dougie187 | sorry what i meant initially was "to me" wife means more then girlfriend. |
| 05:40.23 | Dougie187 | and i guess I assume that more people feel that way. |
| 05:40.28 | Dougie187 | than just me. |
| 05:40.32 | muthu | that's why its your wife ;) |
| 05:40.36 | jasta | Dougie187: But then you do mean the tradiiton |
| 05:40.40 | Dougie187 | no. |
| 05:40.45 | jasta | Dougie187: Because the only context of trusting your wife comes from KNOWING your wife. |
| 05:40.49 | Dougie187 | you are mis-interpreting that. |
| 05:40.52 | jasta | You don't know everyone else, and so you can't predict how they think. |
| 05:41.09 | jasta | You'd just be assuming that they also think about their wives as you think about yours. Which is totally wrong :) |
| 05:41.38 | Dougie187 | I do not think it is un-resonable to think that there are more people in the world who think of their wives as i think of mine. |
| 05:41.40 | muthu | trusting you wife is wrong? |
| 05:41.56 | jasta | Dougie187: There's not, but it's all fueled by tradition. |
| 05:42.01 | Dougie187 | no. |
| 05:42.07 | jasta | There is no other variable that could contribute to this irrational assumption you have. |
| 05:42.09 | Dougie187 | your stuck on the tradition thing. |
| 05:42.33 | jasta | As I told you, the only function of marriage is from god-fearing people. So if you remove that context of its function, then you have merely an assumption based on a traditional belief you were given with no logical justification. |
| 05:42.33 | Dougie187 | tradition is only for the people who follow it |
| 05:42.48 | Dougie187 | jasta: i think you are missing the depth of marriage. |
| 05:43.12 | jasta | Otherwise, what logical justification do you have to assume that married people are less likely to cheat? |
| 05:43.32 | Dougie187 | also, you don't know that the meaning of marriage I have been taught is traditional or not. |
| 05:43.37 | muthu | in marriage, you tend to be more committed |
| 05:43.54 | Dougie187 | at least if you take the marriage seriously. |
| 05:43.58 | jasta | Dougie187: I have asked you several times to tell me, which you haven't done./ |
| 05:44.41 | jasta | Marriage was essentially symoblicly a promise that you won't cheat on them or anything like that. |
| 05:44.52 | jasta | But what you're not getting is that the social pressures remain exactly the same. |
| 05:44.59 | jasta | You're still not supposed to cheat on your girlfriend :) |
| 05:45.06 | Dougie187 | because I feel like being married makes you respect the other person in the marriage, and think of them in all your actions, so if you were going to cheat you would have to consciously consider the other person. and I feel like that alone would make people less likely to cheat |
| 05:45.31 | jasta | Dougie187: But as I just said, you're still a bastard if you do that to your wife :) |
| 05:45.34 | jasta | err to your girlfriend* |
| 05:45.38 | jasta | You're no less a bastard, really. |
| 05:45.38 | gambler | for once jasta is right on the money |
| 05:46.06 | jasta | And isnce we were very specifically referring to "cheating" and not other forms of trespasses, I think my argument remains quite strong here. |
| 05:46.33 | muthu | in marriage you are showing commitment |
| 05:46.43 | muthu | and governed by laws |
| 05:46.44 | jasta | Showing it how? |
| 05:46.52 | Dougie187 | i dont think you are understanding what im saying. |
| 05:47.15 | Dougie187 | i agree that cheating on your girlfriend means your a douchebag. |
| 05:47.31 | muthu | if you are committed then you should marry your girlfriend |
| 05:47.32 | jasta | Dougie187: that's because you're trying to argue something that i can't possibly know about you. You're arguing without logic, but with your interpretation of a social contract which you were taught. |
| 05:47.35 | Dougie187 | but i think in peoples minds they would think less of the other person in just an average relationship. |
| 05:47.47 | jasta | Dougie187: And you can't do that. You can't argue things that we all don't know to be true. |
| 05:47.58 | Dougie187 | but thats what you are doing too. |
| 05:48.04 | jasta | No, I assure you it's not :) |
| 05:48.09 | Dougie187 | you are assuming that divorce statistics show that married people chate. |
| 05:48.11 | Dougie187 | cheat* |
| 05:48.21 | jasta | Dougie187: No, that was never part of my argument. |
| 05:48.23 | muthu | is it a question of who cheats most? |
| 05:48.28 | Dougie187 | then why did you bring it up? |
| 05:48.31 | jasta | I just said it to get your mind thinking in the right context. |
| 05:48.43 | Dougie187 | muthu: no, he was just telling me i should be careful letting my wife go to clubs with girls. |
| 05:48.52 | muthu | ha |
| 05:48.52 | jasta | and you should ;P |
| 05:48.56 | gambler | I never let my boyfriend go out clubbing unless Ive satisifed him first |
| 05:49.04 | Dougie187 | jasta: i don't see how that helps any though. |
| 05:49.05 | muthu | haha |
| 05:49.17 | muthu | gambler: lol, good policy! |
| 05:49.23 | jasta | really, i was just trying to give you a helpful piece of advice ;) |
| 05:49.27 | jasta | i learned my lesson a long time ago |
| 05:49.31 | gambler | :p |
| 05:49.57 | muthu | actually the argument depends on people |
| 05:50.00 | Dougie187 | lol, well i think you are bad at giving helpful advice. and also you might try to let people learn their own lessons. |
| 05:50.01 | muthu | you can't just generalize |
| 05:50.12 | jasta | also, i picked up a few things being single. girls with boyfriends or husbands who are frequently "not here" are easy targets ;) |
| 05:50.30 | muthu | waoh |
| 05:50.36 | muthu | another jastapedia fact! |
| 05:50.36 | gambler | jasta, so your admitting to be a homewrecker? |
| 05:50.40 | jasta | not that i would ever want to get entangled with that type of nonsense |
| 05:50.48 | jasta | just that it's a very easy thing to pick up on :) |
| 05:51.01 | jasta | gambler: no, just that I have learned this to be true. |
| 05:51.23 | Dougie187 | i don't disagree that they are "easy targets" |
| 05:51.23 | muthu | jasta: did you act in loveguru :P |
| 05:51.27 | jasta | for example, i've been to many a party where these girls end up going home with someone. |
| 05:51.28 | Dougie187 | im just saying, cheating is a two person act. |
| 05:51.34 | Dougie187 | and i trust my wife enough to not cheat on me. |
| 05:52.02 | muthu | yes, its all about people |
| 05:52.03 | Dougie187 | if that trust ends up f'ing me over. then so-be-it. but i don't think it's a healthy thing to do to not trust her. |
| 05:52.05 | jasta | i hope you're having plenty of sex, then :) |
| 05:52.18 | gambler | Dougie187, would you considering it cheating if she slept with a woman? |
| 05:52.19 | jasta | sexually satisfied people are way less likely to cheat. that's a much more powerful indicator than married or not. |
| 05:52.23 | *** join/#android SR71-Blackbird (n=nirvana@unaffiliated/sr71-blackbird) |
| 05:52.28 | Dougie187 | gambler: yes. |
| 05:52.56 | muthu | jasta: where you got that indicator? |
| 05:53.11 | jasta | Dougie187: it's not always about trust, you know. it's sometimes about just being insightful. jsut trying to detect when you're being kind of a douche and your wife is too embarrassed to tell you. |
| 05:53.14 | gambler | i dont see why...i figure its just like they are at boarding school |
| 05:53.33 | Dougie187 | muthu: he has an android app that measures likeliness to cheat. |
| 05:53.38 | jasta | like neglecting your partner, for example. your partner may never stand up and scream "HEY, PAY ATTENTION TO ME!" |
| 05:53.39 | muthu | haha |
| 05:53.42 | jasta | they might just leave you first. |
| 05:53.55 | muthu | lovemeter would be a good android app |
| 05:53.57 | jasta | so it's not about trust, but rather just being insightful and sensitive to things like how your partner is feeling about the relationship. |
| 05:54.02 | jasta | are they happy, sexually satisfied, etc? |
| 05:54.19 | Dougie187 | sure i don't disagree with that at all. |
| 05:54.24 | jasta | assuming that they are these things without really being objective about it and talking to them is pointless. |
| 05:54.31 | jasta | assumptions are totally stupid when it comes to how people feel :) |
| 05:54.42 | Dougie187 | but that is being a good partner. as well. you have to have good interpersonal communication with your partner. |
| 05:54.42 | jasta | assumptions about tradition, or personalities, etc. |
| 05:54.44 | muthu | jasta: have you seen these reality shows? |
| 05:54.52 | muthu | where people cheat for other reasons |
| 05:54.55 | Dougie187 | jasta: don't even start on the tradition again. |
| 05:55.11 | jasta | i'm just reinforcing my point. assumptions about the way people think is a very bad idea. |
| 05:55.23 | jasta | especially if you think you know that person very well. they always surprise you :) |
| 05:55.50 | gambler | jasta remembers back to the time his wife showed up with a strap on dildo |
| 05:55.53 | jasta | good communication limits how long assumptions can go untested. so that's really important of course :) |
| 05:55.53 | Dougie187 | well, no offense, but i think you only really say that because of your life experiences. |
| 05:55.57 | muthu | jasta: looks like you are talking for a single personal experience |
| 05:56.10 | muthu | gambler: lol |
| 05:56.31 | Dougie187 | i think you are generalizing with your own personal experiences, which is as well something that is not great to do. |
| 05:56.38 | muthu | agree |
| 05:56.48 | muthu | jasta just thinks what happened to him is happening to everyone |
| 05:56.50 | jasta | really? can you give me an example that supports that conclusion? |
| 05:56.58 | Dougie187 | which conclusion? |
| 05:57.02 | jasta | because honestly i feel like i was generalizing very objectively. |
| 05:57.36 | *** join/#android pafanen (n=u@a91-155-131-70.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 05:57.53 | Dougie187 | well i probably would have felt like you were generalizing with no experience until you brought up your previous marriage. |
| 05:57.55 | jasta | Dougie187: that my experiences have tainted my faith in people somehow. |
| 05:58.10 | jasta | because i do trust my girlfriend right now. i trust her because i have learned to communicate much better. |
| 05:58.16 | Dougie187 | after that point i felt like your points were drawn from a previous experience. |
| 05:58.21 | jasta | and i have learned to be more sensitive to what's going on with her |
| 05:58.27 | gambler | jasta sends her irc logs of his latest rant |
| 05:58.29 | Dougie187 | and thats not a bad thing at all. |
| 05:58.45 | gambler | awww thats cuddly... |
| 05:58.50 | jasta | if i hadn't told you about my experiences prior to this gf, you would have no reason to come to the conclusion you've come to |
| 05:59.01 | jasta | i feel like you've just found an easy escape from the argument since you realize your points are nonsense :) |
| 05:59.09 | Dougie187 | lol. |
| 05:59.16 | Dougie187 | i still stand by my arguments. |
| 05:59.34 | Dougie187 | i just feel like you don't understand what im saying, and say they are nonsense as an easy escape |
| 05:59.50 | jasta | that's usually how it goes when someone has experiences that don't match your own. it's better to argue without circumstantial evidence. |
| 06:00.07 | Dougie187 | i will have to say, based on your conversation though, and the fact that you had a previous marraige i had assumed that you had something negative that you draw your argument from. |
| 06:00.20 | jasta | not at all, actually |
| 06:00.35 | muthu | Dougie187: i think you are doing the right thing by letter her go to clubs if she wants to |
| 06:00.43 | jasta | i am grateful to have had that experience. i learned a lot about how not to be a douchebag boyfriend |
| 06:00.47 | jasta | because i totally was :) |
| 06:00.53 | gambler | jasta: "marriages" that happened online dont count...you know that right |
| 06:01.02 | jasta | muthu: i didn't say he should stop her from going. i said he should learn to dance and go :) |
| 06:01.31 | gambler | maybe you could mail him some ecstacy tablets |
| 06:01.34 | muthu | that's a good idea too |
| 06:01.40 | Dougie187 | well personally, and i think im not alone in this since it seemed like gambler and mutu had the same opinion, i feel like you gave the impression that you had some negative experience that paralleled your arguments. |
| 06:01.58 | Dougie187 | I wouldn't mind going to ballroom dance, just the club scene isnt my thing. |
| 06:02.02 | Dougie187 | i don't enjoy it. |
| 06:02.10 | gambler | Dougie187, how old are you and your wife |
| 06:02.13 | jasta | Dougie187: i wouldn't use either of them as jsutification. gambler isn't taking this conversation seriously, and muthu is muthu |
| 06:02.16 | jasta | so :) |
| 06:02.22 | muthu | haha |
| 06:02.24 | Dougie187 | me<-23 almost 24, her 22 |
| 06:02.35 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 06:02.38 | Dougie187 | tou'che. |
| 06:02.44 | jasta | Dougie187: yeah, but maybe she would really enjoy you to go. |
| 06:02.51 | jasta | ask her, some time. i bet you'll be surprised by her answer :) |
| 06:02.53 | Dougie187 | i'm sure she would. |
| 06:02.57 | Dougie187 | oh lol. no i wouldnt. |
| 06:03.00 | gambler | 24? I thought you were 40...this will all end up on jerry springer |
| 06:03.03 | Dougie187 | i know she would love me to go dance with her. |
| 06:03.09 | jasta | so be a good husban and make some sacrifice you putz :) |
| 06:03.39 | Dougie187 | lol i make my sacrifices at appropriate times. |
| 06:03.53 | Dougie187 | and i try to be a good husband to her as well. |
| 06:03.56 | jasta | be honest. are you just being selfish because you really don't feel comfortable doing it? |
| 06:03.58 | gambler | Dougie187, f that advice...get her into a 3some ...if she loves the ladies there is less chance she will hook up with another guy |
| 06:04.04 | jasta | and she can't change your mind because you don't want to be uncomfortable? |
| 06:04.41 | Dougie187 | i don't feel comfortable with it, but also just the whole scene isn't something I enjoy. i don't like the crowds or the other people who are there. |
| 06:04.43 | Dougie187 | its not my thing. |
| 06:04.56 | Dougie187 | and im referring to the dancing being somewhat uncomfortable. |
| 06:05.09 | jasta | Dougie187: do you ever have your gf accompany you to things she maybe isn't a fan of? |
| 06:05.16 | Dougie187 | usually when i get started its not too bad. but its always semi awkward. |
| 06:05.20 | jasta | like family reunions and shit? :) |
| 06:05.30 | Dougie187 | yes, and i acompany them to things i am not a fan of as well. |
| 06:05.35 | Dougie187 | lol family reunions.. she loves those. |
| 06:05.37 | jasta | does she ever tell you no? |
| 06:05.40 | Dougie187 | im not the fan of those. |
| 06:05.41 | Dougie187 | yes. |
| 06:05.56 | jasta | hehe |
| 06:06.01 | jasta | this conversation tickles me :) |
| 06:06.08 | muthu | gambler: don't think that would work |
| 06:06.29 | gambler | muthu, why not' |
| 06:06.33 | muthu | since you can marry whoever you like |
| 06:06.41 | Dougie187 | muthu: me either. i ignored it because of the lack of seriousness in the conversation. lol. |
| 06:06.44 | gambler | muthu, there is no love more pure then the love between two women |
| 06:06.56 | jasta | oh shut up gambler |
| 06:07.01 | Dougie187 | lol. |
| 06:07.08 | muthu | yeah, and they can get married if they choose to |
| 06:07.15 | jasta | muthu: not in most places in the world. |
| 06:07.17 | gambler | jasta, now u are talking about something u dont know about |
| 06:07.20 | Dougie187 | and the focus of the conversation has just shifted from me to gambler. |
| 06:07.30 | jasta | gambler: are you sure you want to start this argument? i can assure you, i know a lot more than you'd think. |
| 06:07.36 | gambler | yo im just an inncoent bystander |
| 06:07.49 | muthu | jasta: how come you know about everything? |
| 06:07.54 | Dougie187 | gambler: and you are definitely generalizing on something you shouldn't be doing. |
| 06:07.57 | jasta | muthu: i like to talk to people. :) |
| 06:08.01 | gambler | jasta ok tough guy..tell us all about it |
| 06:08.11 | jasta | my mom is a lesbian |
| 06:08.30 | gambler | so unless you F ed her i dont think that counts |
| 06:08.42 | Dougie187 | ... |
| 06:08.42 | jasta | she came out when i was 7, and my parents divorced. |
| 06:08.49 | Dougie187 | jasta: ... just let it go. |
| 06:08.55 | Dougie187 | keep in mind its not serious. |
| 06:09.05 | gambler | jasta: so you have 2 mommies? |
| 06:09.08 | jasta | i just would like to hear what sort of pathetic, uninformed response she has. |
| 06:09.19 | Dougie187 | jasta: seriously. just stop. |
| 06:09.30 | Dougie187 | it's going to turn into a meoblast conversation. |
| 06:09.34 | Dougie187 | was that one worth it? |
| 06:09.36 | jasta | you're right |
| 06:10.05 | jasta | i have to go anyway. gotta take a friend to the airport. |
| 06:10.06 | gambler | Dougie187, shame on you for quashing an interesting discussion |
| 06:10.10 | Dougie187 | you're talking with someone who doesn't care to have a conversation. |
| 06:10.16 | Dougie187 | ok. have a good one jasta |
| 06:10.20 | Dougie187 | i think im going to bed. |
| 06:10.29 | Dougie187 | gambler: just stop talking. |
| 06:10.31 | gambler | Dougie187, make sure you dont get herpes |
| 06:10.36 | Dougie187 | ill try not to. |
| 06:10.39 | Dougie187 | see ya |
| 06:10.39 | *** part/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@c-68-35-245-156.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 06:10.42 | gambler | Dougie187, sorry thought police |
| 06:11.17 | gambler | anyway i dont think theres anything wrong with jasta having a lesbian mother |
| 06:11.30 | gambler | nor do i think there is anything wrong with me fantasizing about them endlessly |
| 06:12.09 | jasta | is gambler like a 16 year old girl or something? |
| 06:12.25 | gambler | ive got the emotional maturity of one |
| 06:14.01 | gambler | frankly though growing up with a lesbian mother was the most interesting part of an otherwise pointless argument |
| 06:14.33 | gambler | id like to hear more...even though Dougie was such a buzzkill |
| 06:26.29 | gambler | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:26.35 | gambler | oops |
| 06:28.50 | ttuttle | gambler: lol |
| 06:30.02 | gambler | :p |
| 06:31.37 | muthu | when someone said "world is flat", i wonder how flat it is! |
| 06:58.36 | jerkface03 | "I still believe Google is no more than yellow page in the internet." <-- lol, looks like someone at microsoft has a disconnect with reality |
| 06:59.39 | jerkface03 | maybe this is why they've had their ass handed to them on a silver platter when it comes to anything to do with search |
| 07:02.05 | muthu | this yellow page thing is being spoken about a lot |
| 07:02.45 | muthu | i say mobile search.. they say yellow pages |
| 07:02.53 | muthu | i say mobile shopping.. they say yellow pages |
| 07:03.00 | muthu | i say mobile dating.. they say yellow pages |
| 07:03.09 | jerkface03 | well, i mean, i'm not google fanboy |
| 07:03.31 | jerkface03 | i'm no google fanboy even |
| 07:03.31 | muthu | poeple just say its an yellow page, when they don't really understand |
| 07:03.39 | jerkface03 | but, it's funny to see them try to brush off their failure |
| 07:03.47 | muthu | right |
| 07:03.54 | muthu | in the world of ebay, cragilist, and amazon |
| 07:04.01 | muthu | no one listens to you! |
| 07:04.32 | muthu | even google is not being listened to.. so that's not too bad |
| 07:04.40 | jerkface03 | "No... No... No... Who care about yellow page? We know Newspaper and TV make more money than yellow page, isn't it? Why not create the next TV on internet. " |
| 07:04.47 | jerkface03 | i'm starting to wonder if this is some giant troll |
| 07:04.53 | jerkface03 | http://blogs.msdn.com/tikiwan/archive/2008/08/23/how-can-microsoft-complete-with-google-part-ii.aspx |
| 07:05.25 | muthu | microsoft has lost it |
| 07:05.30 | muthu | they have to move on |
| 07:05.36 | muthu | like yahoo |
| 07:06.01 | jerkface03 | live search was a piece of shit before, and it's still not very good now |
| 07:06.12 | muthu | yeah, and you talk about live search.. |
| 07:06.18 | muthu | they'll throw yellow pages at you |
| 07:06.56 | muthu | hey goog, why don't you fund me so i can build an useful mobile search tool |
| 07:07.17 | muthu | people are still hung up on static search |
| 07:07.27 | jerkface03 | static search? |
| 07:07.30 | muthu | i like to say, search is 2 ways |
| 07:08.06 | muthu | yeah, the way we search now doesn't cut it |
| 07:08.14 | muthu | its not relevant, it doesn't show what you want |
| 07:08.52 | muthu | google has the big search box in android |
| 07:08.55 | muthu | come on! |
| 07:09.28 | muthu | if all you can think of is put a search box in a mobile, and say google works |
| 07:09.34 | muthu | it would be very disappointing |
| 07:09.44 | duey | waht if i want yahoo search?!?!1 |
| 07:09.58 | muthu | no, i'm not even talking about alternate searches |
| 07:10.10 | muthu | i'm saying the way we search in mobile, is not the same as in desktop |
| 07:10.12 | jerkface03 | looks like yahoo search will become live search soon? |
| 07:10.12 | duey | submits a feature request |
| 07:10.17 | duey | no |
| 07:10.20 | jerkface03 | so you don't want yahoo search |
| 07:10.21 | jerkface03 | lol |
| 07:10.23 | duey | that deals off isnt it? |
| 07:10.28 | duey | i use google |
| 07:10.33 | jerkface03 | not sure, i haven't been keeping up |
| 07:10.38 | duey | but just saying would be a lol feature request |
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| 07:10.46 | jerkface03 | but srsly homie, yahoo search is almost as big a failure as live search |
| 07:11.13 | muthu | yeah, yahoo just couldn't catch up |
| 07:11.13 | duey | live search is so fail |
| 07:11.23 | duey | at least yahoo returns good results |
| 07:11.32 | jerkface03 | tell me about it, i search for something on live search and i have to move down 9 pages to get what i actually want |
| 07:11.32 | muthu | and they failed, when they rejected microsoft |
| 07:11.43 | duey | M$ would of killed them anywya |
| 07:11.46 | muthu | jerkface03: that's the problem with the current search |
| 07:11.57 | muthu | duey: i would rather die with a shit load of money |
| 07:12.00 | muthu | than die poor |
| 07:12.04 | duey | lol |
| 07:12.08 | jerkface03 | s/money/hookers |
| 07:12.13 | duey | im sure jerry is already quite rich |
| 07:12.58 | duey | live search has this crazy ranking algo |
| 07:13.03 | duey | its a neural network |
| 07:13.07 | duey | insanely complicated |
| 07:13.14 | duey | compared to pagerank |
| 07:13.43 | muthu | wonder, what's the next pagerank? |
| 07:13.44 | jerkface03 | maybe that's why they fail it? |
| 07:13.49 | muthu | what google is innovating? |
| 07:13.56 | duey | well im sure pagerank evolves every day |
| 07:14.05 | muthu | goog needs to think ahead |
| 07:14.11 | duey | the idea of pagerank is very simple, but very successful |
| 07:14.15 | jerkface03 | i'm sure they're thinking ahead plenty |
| 07:14.16 | duey | and its very effective |
| 07:14.26 | duey | and they own the patent :) |
| 07:14.32 | muthu | i'm very disappointed with their mobile search |
| 07:14.51 | muthu | you cannot bring the desktop search to the mobile |
| 07:14.55 | jerkface03 | muthu: i'm sure it's one of those things that'll get better over time |
| 07:15.02 | muthu | hope so |
| 07:15.16 | duey | muthu, any news on the adc round 2 results? |
| 07:15.23 | muthu | coming in sep |
| 07:15.24 | duey | did you app end up looking good? |
| 07:15.29 | muthu | oh yeah |
| 07:15.32 | duey | nice |
| 07:15.41 | duey | good luck |
| 07:15.44 | muthu | hope i get funded enough |
| 07:16.02 | muthu | so i can work on redefining the mobile search ;) |
| 07:16.04 | muthu | duey: thx |
| 07:16.09 | duey | I guess you have a pretty good chance of winning |
| 07:16.19 | muthu | i personally think, in top 10 |
| 07:16.22 | duey | only 20/50 |
| 07:16.35 | duey | and i bet a few of those didnt continue in round 2 |
| 07:16.42 | muthu | no |
| 07:16.43 | duey | so it might be 20/40 |
| 07:16.45 | muthu | everyone did continue |
| 07:16.48 | duey | ah ok |
| 07:16.53 | duey | well maybe some people didnt care as much |
| 07:16.53 | muthu | why would they stop? |
| 07:17.01 | duey | I probably would of if i had won |
| 07:17.01 | duey | lol |
| 07:17.04 | muthu | 250k made everyone care ;) |
| 07:17.22 | duey | money doesn't motivate some people |
| 07:17.33 | *** join/#android dims (n=dims@c-66-31-154-33.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 07:17.34 | muthu | money motivates always |
| 07:17.40 | duey | actually |
| 07:17.52 | muthu | everyone has a dream, and they need money to follow it |
| 07:17.54 | duey | money is a means to motivation |
| 07:18.06 | muthu | money is not the goal |
| 07:18.10 | duey | yeah |
| 07:18.34 | jerkface03 | first you get the money |
| 07:18.36 | duey | like for example at work i am a lot more motivated by the success at what i create than my paycheck |
| 07:18.37 | jerkface03 | then you get the women |
| 07:18.39 | jerkface03 | then you get the power |
| 07:18.49 | muthu | then you get broke |
| 07:19.02 | muthu | not necessarily in that order ;) |
| 07:19.33 | muthu | i really want to win adc2 now |
| 07:19.41 | duey | can you enter adc2? |
| 07:19.52 | muthu | why not? |
| 07:20.03 | muthu | ofcourse with a different app |
| 07:20.08 | duey | ah |
| 07:20.26 | muthu | i plan to enter and win! |
| 07:20.56 | muthu | now i know what it takes to win ;) |
| 07:21.17 | jerkface03 | didn't you already win? |
| 07:21.20 | jerkface03 | what'd you do with the money? |
| 07:21.26 | muthu | spend it in SF |
| 07:21.38 | jerkface03 | sanfran? |
| 07:21.42 | muthu | yup |
| 07:21.47 | jerkface03 | you spent 10,000 in sanfran? |
| 07:21.48 | jerkface03 | on what? |
| 07:21.57 | muthu | on a lot of things |
| 07:22.13 | jerkface03 | "a lot of things"? is that code for a drug habit? |
| 07:22.20 | muthu | lol |
| 07:22.27 | jerkface03 | you need to try some less expensive drugs :( |
| 07:22.31 | muthu | hehe |
| 07:23.00 | jerkface03 | fack |
| 07:23.05 | muthu | do you think 10k is big money? |
| 07:23.06 | jerkface03 | schools starting for me again in september |
| 07:23.15 | duey | I would of spent it on junk too |
| 07:23.16 | jerkface03 | either i have to quit my job or take less courses |
| 07:23.17 | muthu | people blow millions of dollars on nothing |
| 07:23.36 | duey | probaby would of bought a macpro, macbookpro, and a new pc |
| 07:23.43 | muthu | yeah |
| 07:23.45 | jerkface03 | well, 10,000 is a large chunk of money. i would have probably invested it in something |
| 07:23.48 | jerkface03 | hah |
| 07:23.50 | muthu | buy a few gadgets, you are broke |
| 07:23.52 | jerkface03 | i just got a macbook a few days ago |
| 07:23.55 | jerkface03 | it sucks balls |
| 07:24.01 | duey | i have a macbook pro |
| 07:24.02 | jerkface03 | installed windows on it after 5 minutes |
| 07:24.04 | duey | its <3 |
| 07:24.10 | duey | jerkface03, not really a fair test.. |
| 07:24.17 | muthu | i will never get in to a mac, ever |
| 07:24.23 | duey | lol |
| 07:24.31 | duey | I use mac/windows everyday |
| 07:24.36 | muthu | just linux |
| 07:24.39 | muthu | fedora 8 |
| 07:24.45 | duey | use my mac for work realted stuff |
| 07:24.45 | muthu | right now, but might switch to ubuntu |
| 07:24.46 | duey | uni etc |
| 07:24.48 | jerkface03 | duey: so do i |
| 07:24.50 | duey | windows for games and irc |
| 07:24.53 | jerkface03 | at work i have a mac and a PC |
| 07:25.03 | jerkface03 | because the product we make has to run on both :( |
| 07:25.11 | muthu | i think i've grown up enough now, to not care about too many things |
| 07:25.22 | muthu | just stick with one, and you'll be happy ;) |
| 07:25.35 | duey | i just bought a macbook pro |
| 07:25.36 | duey | its great |
| 07:25.40 | duey | goign to buy a new pc now |
| 07:26.06 | jerkface03 | that's like eatting steak AND lobster |
| 07:26.07 | jerkface03 | in one sitting |
| 07:26.14 | muthu | lol |
| 07:26.23 | jerkface03 | correcting |
| 07:26.36 | jerkface03 | steak and a wendy's hamburger |
| 07:26.39 | duey | lol |
| 07:26.41 | jerkface03 | the mac being the wendy's hamburger |
| 07:26.50 | duey | i lent some money to some peoples awhile ago and they just paid me back |
| 07:26.55 | duey | so i figured i would waste it |
| 07:27.03 | muthu | buy a gphone |
| 07:27.09 | jerkface03 | you should have gotten a console |
| 07:27.09 | duey | na i dont use mobiles |
| 07:27.13 | duey | already have got one |
| 07:27.14 | duey | ps3 |
| 07:27.18 | duey | it sux |
| 07:27.21 | duey | paper weight |
| 07:27.29 | jerkface03 | well you should have gotten an XBOX and a Wii |
| 07:27.32 | jerkface03 | and then modded them both |
| 07:27.33 | duey | got an xbox |
| 07:27.34 | duey | it sux to |
| 07:27.38 | duey | its a bigger paperweight |
| 07:27.43 | umdk1d4 | YAY!!! /me dances around room i fixed a bug that took 4 hours to track down |
| 07:27.47 | umdk1d4 | in a huge library |
| 07:27.56 | duey | I don't like consoles |
| 07:27.59 | duey | never going to buy another one |
| 07:28.00 | umdk1d4 | it was a stupid off-by-one |
| 07:28.04 | jerkface03 | hah |
| 07:28.09 | jerkface03 | i was thinking about buying an xbox |
| 07:28.15 | jerkface03 | and then i found out i have to pay microsoft to play online? |
| 07:28.16 | jerkface03 | ya right |
| 07:28.19 | jerkface03 | in your fat fucking dreams |
| 07:28.23 | romainguy_ | don't play online :) |
| 07:28.25 | jerkface03 | i already pay for an internet connection |
| 07:28.26 | duey | jerkface03, yeah thats whats nice about the ps3 at least |
| 07:28.31 | romainguy_ | I tried online play |
| 07:28.33 | romainguy_ | people insult you |
| 07:28.37 | duey | awww |
| 07:28.41 | romainguy_ | and they play all the time so they're impossible to beat :) |
| 07:28.45 | romainguy_ | it's not very fun |
| 07:28.48 | jerkface03 | I tried online *, people insult you |
| 07:28.50 | *** join/#android Mathiasdm (n=Mathias@78-22-6-189.access.telenet.be) |
| 07:28.52 | duey | I paly counterstrike still :D |
| 07:29.01 | duey | so many pros on i |
| 07:29.02 | romainguy_ | duey: :p |
| 07:29.03 | duey | it |
| 07:29.17 | duey | I break even on kill/deaths so its ok |
| 07:29.27 | jerkface03 | source or regular? |
| 07:29.31 | duey | source |
| 07:29.35 | jerkface03 | i've been playing zombie mod alot of source recently |
| 07:29.40 | jerkface03 | on* |
| 07:30.03 | duey | they should release a new counterstrike |
| 07:30.08 | duey | or someone should release a mod |
| 07:30.18 | jerkface03 | i'm sure it's coming with the next HL? |
| 07:30.22 | duey | maybe |
| 07:32.14 | duey | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fwiv1t1QiEE |
| 07:32.16 | duey | maybe:D |
| 07:32.44 | muthu | yum.. lunch getting ready |
| 07:32.55 | muthu | love the aroma spreading around the hall |
| 07:33.44 | jerkface03 | duey: looks like i'm going to have to get a new video card :( |
| 07:34.58 | jerkface03 | i hope they still allow custom sprays |
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| 07:36.05 | jerkface03 | i don't know if i'd still be able to play without the ability to post a picture of steve urkel's mugshot on the wall |
| 07:38.48 | muthu | the biggest skam right now in india is the iphone sales |
| 07:39.37 | duey | biggest scam in nz is the cost of the iphone |
| 07:39.42 | duey | $250/m for 1GB! |
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| 07:50.10 | gambler | duey, whereabouts in nz |
| 07:50.19 | duey | all over? |
| 07:50.28 | gambler | i meant u |
| 07:50.32 | duey | oh |
| 07:50.33 | duey | hamilton |
| 07:50.55 | gambler | ah so ur not the massey guy :O |
| 07:51.04 | duey | nope |
| 07:51.09 | duey | waikato :) |
| 07:52.02 | gambler | not sure where that is |
| 07:52.32 | duey | in hamilton haha |
| 07:52.39 | duey | waikato uni that is |
| 07:52.49 | duey | waikato is the region in which hamitlon exists |
| 07:53.39 | umdk1d3 | is it possible to override/listen to the volume up/dwon buttons? instead of it being redirected to system volume service |
| 07:53.42 | gambler | ah i c...hamilton is on the north island right? i think i went there once |
| 07:53.43 | umdk1d3 | to be used as zooming controls |
| 07:53.50 | duey | yeah |
| 07:54.56 | gambler | also was supposed to go do dunedin one year but i pulled out at the last minute |
| 07:55.16 | duey | hamilton and dunedin are similar, just boring student towns |
| 07:55.25 | duey | not much in terms of tourism |
| 07:55.33 | duey | similar in size |
| 07:55.49 | muthu | umdk1d3: there used to be a zoomslider, and its missing in 0.9 |
| 07:55.50 | gambler | yah I was supposed to present a paper in dunedin but my co author went instead |
| 07:55.58 | duey | ah cool |
| 07:56.06 | umdk1d3 | muthu: zoomslider like a control? |
| 07:56.09 | umdk1d3 | *widget |
| 07:56.11 | duey | has to do a conference soon :( |
| 07:56.14 | muthu | widget |
| 07:56.24 | gambler | duey: presenter? |
| 07:56.26 | duey | honours presentations ftl! |
| 07:56.28 | duey | yeah |
| 07:57.01 | gambler | topic? |
| 07:57.15 | duey | parasitic javascript |
| 07:57.34 | duey | using javascript to compute problems in web browsers |
| 07:57.38 | duey | (without the users knowledge) |
| 07:57.48 | duey | and not impairing performance |
| 07:57.57 | gambler | like distributed computing |
| 07:58.02 | duey | yep |
| 07:58.14 | gambler | thats a sick way to do it without them downloading code |
| 07:58.20 | duey | yeah |
| 07:58.41 | duey | I can't even tell its running anymore |
| 07:59.24 | duey | doing a user study to see |
| 07:59.29 | duey | will be interesting |
| 07:59.36 | gambler | my honours student did his presentation on something similiar awhile back. but his focus was on strategies to detect evil clients |
| 08:00.15 | duey | yeah, I am also doing detection of evil clients |
| 08:00.23 | duey | but its fairly basic |
| 08:00.28 | duey | duplication of work units etc. |
| 08:00.29 | umdk1d3 | my proposed solution to finding evil clients is to add an isEvil() method to the Client class |
| 08:00.40 | umdk1d3 | j/k :P |
| 08:00.42 | duey | return true; )? |
| 08:01.05 | umdk1d3 | well you would have to iterate over what that client does |
| 08:01.19 | umdk1d3 | because the evil-ness of a Client is defined by its Action[] |
| 08:01.55 | duey | lol my definition of an evil client is one that modifies a work unit to return bad results |
| 08:02.01 | gambler | umdk1d3, these are all just computing the answer to a function |
| 08:02.05 | gambler | yes |
| 08:03.44 | gambler | the other thing thats very simple is to randomly check a porportion of its work units...you will tend to converge on isEvil() quite quickly |
| 08:04.18 | duey | yeah I wrote up several solutions, it depends on the problem I have found |
| 08:04.21 | gambler | duey, are you using it for anything interesting |
| 08:04.24 | duey | you can estimate some solutions |
| 08:04.51 | duey | gambler, not really, I have ray tracing for the presentation. have some machine learning stuff too |
| 08:05.35 | gambler | duey, i know nothing about javascript...how long does it run for, until a new page is surfed-to? |
| 08:05.41 | duey | yeah |
| 08:05.48 | duey | so I have made the work units small |
| 08:05.55 | duey | but its also single threaded |
| 08:06.06 | duey | so if you have long execution of a script it will lock the browser |
| 08:06.06 | gambler | can you hook in a sendResults() to a New-page action? |
| 08:06.17 | duey | I just ajax the results back and forth |
| 08:06.35 | gambler | doesnt that create alot of network I/O |
| 08:06.45 | duey | yep |
| 08:07.02 | duey | next modification is reduction in work unit size for slow connections |
| 08:07.13 | gambler | so you are doing like a heartbeat type thing? |
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| 08:07.21 | duey | yeah |
| 08:07.41 | duey | it basically just requests a work unit, computes it and sends it back |
| 08:07.57 | duey | it will keep doing it if the page stays open |
| 08:08.01 | gambler | you should measure the cost of sending a work unit with it's computation time |
| 08:08.13 | duey | yeah, need to find some 56k modems |
| 08:08.19 | duey | no body has them anymore :( |
| 08:08.35 | gambler | with all the marshalling and protocol stuff, id be suprised if your approach was efficient enough |
| 08:08.39 | gambler | i dont understand why you need a modem? |
| 08:08.48 | duey | testing slow connections |
| 08:09.11 | duey | its probably not very efficient |
| 08:09.27 | duey | but its more of a "you can use javascript to do this" watch out |
| 08:09.34 | gambler | ah well im pretty sure you can do rate limiting with iptables |
| 08:09.44 | duey | the original parasitic computing paper computed SAT problems using TCP/HTTP |
| 08:09.56 | duey | it was very very inefficient |
| 08:09.59 | duey | but still interesting |
| 08:10.20 | duey | yeah I might explore that |
| 08:10.23 | duey | or a proxy of some sort |
| 08:10.24 | gambler | gotcha...how about you build a skynet like supercomputer that becomes self aware...each browser represents a neuron |
| 08:10.31 | duey | haha |
| 08:10.47 | duey | well I have a neural network implemented, its a start |
| 08:11.35 | gambler | i believe AI could become self-aware...it wouldnt suprise me in the slightest |
| 08:12.08 | duey | neural networks are a bit of a joke IMO |
| 08:12.31 | gambler | thats a pretty broad term |
| 08:12.38 | duey | in terms of data mining |
| 08:12.41 | duey | perceptrons etc |
| 08:13.28 | gambler | there is alot of really advanced stuff out there |
| 08:13.37 | gambler | more so than peceptrons :p |
| 08:13.48 | duey | yeah |
| 08:14.31 | jasta | so, does anyone have a good strategy for setting up tests with Android? |
| 08:14.54 | jerkface03 | port junit over? |
| 08:14.56 | jasta | i want to basically unit test my service |
| 08:14.57 | duey | return true; |
| 08:15.07 | gambler | id settle for an emulator that loaded faster |
| 08:15.10 | jasta | there's all this shit around that looks like you can unit test and instrument android |
| 08:15.16 | jasta | but id ont know how to set up a project to do it? |
| 08:15.37 | jasta | it's like it's all here, but there's no sample build environment or anything on just how to load it up |
| 08:15.56 | muthu | setup an instrumentation class |
| 08:16.11 | jasta | i mean like, ApiDemos has a tests dir |
| 08:16.15 | jasta | with all sorts of stuff that seems like what i want |
| 08:16.18 | jasta | but how do i build it/use it? |
| 08:16.32 | muthu | you run it from adb |
| 08:16.34 | jasta | my friend came in here and started this conversation last week and it really got me wondering |
| 08:16.38 | jasta | muthu: how do you build it? |
| 08:16.46 | Acsia | I managed the instrumentation yesterday |
| 08:16.48 | muthu | regular ant/maven build |
| 08:16.54 | jasta | muthu: there's no build environment there. |
| 08:17.04 | jasta | it's just a manifest and some code. can't import the project into eclipse. |
| 08:17.19 | muthu | its all part of the same project |
| 08:17.37 | jasta | muthu: no, it's not. |
| 08:17.42 | Acsia | I did not manage to have the 2 manifest for the same project |
| 08:17.52 | jasta | Acsia: right, like how the hell did they do this? |
| 08:17.53 | Acsia | It failed upon installation |
| 08:18.08 | Acsia | but I managed to have instrumentation from my main manifest |
| 08:18.13 | jasta | the thing is that i like the idea of not having my tests get bundled into the freaking release APK :) |
| 08:18.31 | jasta | and also, there must be some nice way to run automated tests for validation? |
| 08:18.35 | Acsia | well potentially you could have another app which would do the instrumentaion |
| 08:18.54 | romainguy_ | it's adb shell am to run instrumentations |
| 08:18.55 | Acsia | as long as it is the same signature |
| 08:19.03 | jasta | Acsia: but can i distribute them both in the same build system? |
| 08:19.36 | jasta | romainguy_: but like what should my build environment look like? how does ApiDemos do it? |
| 08:19.48 | Acsia | I used the same app, it s not very well documented |
| 08:19.54 | jasta | ApiDemos seems to have some really slick testing framework in there... |
| 08:20.03 | romainguy_ | it's just built the same way as any other apk |
| 08:20.16 | Acsia | so I have my tests under acceptance folder in eclipse |
| 08:20.16 | jasta | romainguy_: well, it fails if you import it into Eclipse |
| 08:20.32 | romainguy_ | why does it fail? |
| 08:20.44 | romainguy_ | (our build system is based on make, not ant btw) |
| 08:20.46 | jasta | it says there are no activities defined. hang on, i'll try again and get the exact error |
| 08:20.52 | romainguy_ | ah |
| 08:20.55 | romainguy_ | that's because of the plugin |
| 08:21.04 | romainguy_ | the plugin probably doesn't know how to handle these guys |
| 08:21.06 | jasta | so, if i just copy some standard build.xml in here it should work? |
| 08:21.13 | romainguy_ | it should |
| 08:21.18 | Acsia | have you seen what positron aim to do? |
| 08:21.18 | jasta | standard being the one taht is for normla projects... |
| 08:21.27 | romainguy_ | but yeah, we have a cool instrumentation framework |
| 08:21.39 | romainguy_ | and we're working on cooler stuff |
| 08:21.55 | jasta | i'd like to start introducing real tests into my project is why i ask |
| 08:22.02 | jasta | i'd like good unit tests for all my services and stuff |
| 08:22.07 | jasta | so i don't have to manually test this crap all the time :) |
| 08:22.10 | Acsia | postiron starts a server so you can run tests that way |
| 08:22.20 | Acsia | there is Serviceinstrumentation |
| 08:22.30 | Acsia | activity and application instrumentation |
| 08:22.53 | jasta | hang on, i'm trying to get the ApiDemos test stuffs to build... |
| 08:22.55 | Acsia | but positron starts a server so you can run scripts against your app via the server |
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| 08:23.32 | Acsia | it s quite neat and the aim is to run it like via irb I beleive |
| 08:23.45 | Acsia | this is from trunk and undocumented obvioulsy |
| 08:27.15 | jasta | romainguy_: hmm, tons of errors... |
| 08:27.51 | jasta | of course, because it's trying to build separate but clearly depends on the other tree |
| 08:27.54 | jasta | hmmm |
| 08:29.05 | romainguy_ | just make it dependent of the other tree |
| 08:29.15 | romainguy_ | ask krosaen next time he's around |
| 08:29.17 | jasta | yeah i'm trying to think how to do that. i don't really know ant at all. |
| 08:29.57 | jasta | i could use maven, except the maven plugin hasn't been updated to 0.9r1 yet |
| 08:30.13 | muthu | jasta: set the path, before you compile |
| 08:30.37 | jasta | huh? |
| 08:30.54 | muthu | you'll have to look into the ant build.xml |
| 08:32.23 | jasta | muthu: have you done this before? |
| 08:32.33 | muthu | ant? |
| 08:32.50 | muthu | i ran instrumentation before 0.9 in the same project |
| 08:32.51 | jasta | created a functional build environment to build separate apks for testing/instrumentation? |
| 08:32.55 | muthu | worked fine |
| 08:33.21 | muthu | no, currently i'm not wasting anymore time on instrumentation :P |
| 08:33.26 | jasta | why not? |
| 08:33.39 | muthu | because i'm in planning stage |
| 08:33.48 | muthu | no code to test, lol |
| 08:34.22 | muthu | i would advice, to keep the tests in the same project |
| 08:34.35 | muthu | to start with, then may be branch it out |
| 08:34.39 | jasta | i want to keep in the same project, but i would prefer to have two different apks |
| 08:34.49 | jasta | so i dont have to distribute an apk that has tests in it. that's silly |
| 08:34.55 | muthu | tests will be excluded |
| 08:34.58 | muthu | if i'm right |
| 08:35.01 | jasta | i think im just gonna need to get maven up and running... |
| 08:35.06 | jasta | so i can build it properly ;) |
| 08:35.28 | muthu | need to look into maven android plugin |
| 08:35.31 | muthu | haven't tried it yet |
| 08:35.38 | muthu | ant works well enough for now |
| 08:35.38 | jasta | they haven't updated it, but for M5 it was sweet |
| 08:35.43 | jasta | and it wouldnt need many changes to work, theyre just being lazy |
| 08:35.51 | muthu | yeah, that's the problem |
| 08:35.58 | muthu | that's why i just stick with activitycreator |
| 08:36.00 | jasta | i like maven because there's less voodoo in the build programming. |
| 08:36.12 | jasta | the build.xml that activitycreator generates is huge :) |
| 08:36.19 | muthu | ha, come on! |
| 08:36.19 | jasta | all that logic is built into the maven plugin |
| 08:36.30 | muthu | that's nothing.. i've worked with huge ant files before |
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| 08:36.37 | jasta | anyway, im gonna try to figure this out, i havent seen instrumentation running yet |
| 08:37.00 | muthu | someone was trying 0.9 and said instrumentation did not work |
| 08:39.59 | Acsia | muthu, I managed instrumentation with 0.9 |
| 08:40.27 | muthu | oh yeah, it was acsia |
| 08:40.36 | muthu | what's solved it? |
| 08:40.49 | Acsia | you were correct btw with the permissino |
| 08:40.57 | Acsia | you need |
| 08:40.58 | Acsia | <uses-library android:name="android.test.runner" /> |
| 08:41.11 | Acsia | otherwise you ll get classnotfound |
| 08:42.58 | muthu | right.. that's what i remembered |
| 08:42.58 | Acsia | it s quite differrent from m5 |
| 08:43.20 | muthu | yeah, learned it the hard way when my maps stopped working |
| 08:43.30 | muthu | and was looking for this weird error |
| 08:43.49 | muthu | and jasta accused me for not disclosing enough info for him to debug.. hehe |
| 08:44.32 | Acsia | hehe |
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| 08:49.49 | BBHoss | do most of the samples with 0.9 not work, or is it just me? |
| 08:50.45 | jasta | Acsia: do you have a simple sample project with instrumentation working? |
| 08:51.04 | Acsia | well not simple but I have one yes |
| 08:53.04 | jasta | Acsia: but it's all just mushed into one apk/manifest? |
| 08:53.11 | jasta | the tests and the code it tests, i mean |
| 08:53.17 | Acsia | yes |
| 08:53.26 | Acsia | but it s in another src folder |
| 08:53.41 | jasta | how do you make that work if it's all in the same manifest? |
| 08:53.42 | Acsia | so when you want to compile your actual public apk, you can still skip it |
| 08:54.27 | Acsia | well why should it not work from the same manifest? |
| 08:54.56 | romainguy_ | ApiDemos has a second manifest for the tests |
| 08:55.05 | BBHoss | like the snake example complains about not being able to resolve class R |
| 08:55.06 | romainguy_ | is it in the SDK? |
| 08:55.08 | BBHoss | which is bullshit |
| 08:55.15 | Acsia | I did not managed to make that one work |
| 08:55.27 | Acsia | the second manifest |
| 08:55.32 | jasta | romainguy_: it is, but i don't see how you can make that work. i just looked at the code and it doesn't even import the stuff it tries to test. |
| 08:55.34 | Acsia | it complains with manifest not found |
| 08:56.13 | romainguy_ | jasta: because it's in the same package |
| 08:56.15 | jasta | Acsia: whats your build environment? ant? do you just conditionalize building the tests, but leave the manifest referencing them? |
| 08:56.35 | Acsia | I use one manifest at the end |
| 08:56.42 | jasta | oh, so it is. i thought it was in com.android.samples.test |
| 08:58.23 | BBHoss | why wont this shit just work? every single example or sample code i've tried is broken out of the box, the only ones ive been able to get working are the hello android example!!!! |
| 08:59.10 | romainguy_ | BBHoss: ?? |
| 08:59.22 | BBHoss | the fucking snake sample code wont even work |
| 08:59.27 | romainguy_ | BBHoss: what's the problem with the examples? |
| 08:59.31 | BBHoss | complains about not being able to resolve R |
| 08:59.41 | romainguy_ | did you compile it to generate the R file? |
| 08:59.44 | BBHoss | i didnt change anything |
| 08:59.48 | BBHoss | this is in eclipse |
| 09:00.03 | romainguy_ | you need to compile the sample to generate the R file |
| 09:00.41 | BBHoss | how does that work? |
| 09:00.54 | BBHoss | eclipse is supposed to do it automatically |
| 09:00.58 | jasta | romainguy_: ... |
| 09:01.02 | jasta | $ adb shell am instrument -w com.android.samples.tests/android.test.InstrumentationTestRunner |
| 09:01.06 | jasta | [1] Killed am instrument -w... |
| 09:01.08 | jasta | ??? |
| 09:01.26 | BBHoss | [2008-08-24 03:57:52 - Snake] Starting incremental Pre Compiler: Checking resource changes. |
| 09:01.26 | BBHoss | [2008-08-24 03:57:52 - Snake] Nothing to pre compile! |
| 09:01.30 | jasta | it stalls for a second or two, then apparently it's firing off SIGKILL? |
| 09:01.43 | jasta | oh yikes. |
| 09:01.58 | jasta | E/AndroidRuntime( 311): *** EXCEPTION IN SYSTEM PROCESS. System will crash. |
| 09:01.58 | jasta | E/AndroidRuntime( 311): java.lang.SecurityException: Permission Denial: starting instrumentation ComponentInfo{com.android.samples.tests/android.test.InstrumentationTestRunner} from pid=311, uid=311 not allowed because package com.android.samples.tests does not have a signature matching the target com.android.samples |
| 09:02.03 | jasta | hehe :) |
| 09:02.14 | jasta | i guess that answers my question though. i will need to also build ApiDemos.apk and sign it myself |
| 09:02.16 | BBHoss | romainguy_: do you know what the problem is? |
| 09:02.22 | romainguy_ | where do you get that .test package from? |
| 09:02.39 | jasta | romainguy_: that command line came from the tests/AndroidManifest.xml |
| 09:02.46 | romainguy_ | ah it's probably outdated |
| 09:02.50 | jasta | which claims it is from package com.android.samples.tests |
| 09:02.55 | romainguy_ | we used to have .tests packages with the old models |
| 09:03.01 | romainguy_ | ah wait |
| 09:03.03 | romainguy_ | no I see |
| 09:03.09 | jasta | but then all the classes are not in .tests |
| 09:03.14 | jasta | so i dont have any clue :) |
| 09:03.17 | romainguy_ | it's not the java package |
| 09:03.26 | romainguy_ | try to rename the package from the manifest to remove the .tests |
| 09:03.28 | romainguy_ | see if it works |
| 09:04.16 | jasta | romainguy_: well, i figured the error was about the signing of the apidemos.apk package, so im fixing that |
| 09:04.24 | Acsia | jast you need to have 2 diff package's name otherwise you won t be able to install both |
| 09:04.34 | jasta | Acsia: right, i think thats why thye did it that way |
| 09:05.18 | jasta | ok, here goes |
| 09:05.28 | jasta | worked, yay :) |
| 09:05.42 | BBHoss | romainguy_: how am i, or why am i, supposed to manually compile a file in the IDE, this seems very backwards, and I didn't have to do this with some other layout stuff i have worked on? |
| 09:06.01 | romainguy_ | BBHoss: you don't have to manually compile anything |
| 09:06.06 | romainguy_ | the R file is generated when you compile the project |
| 09:06.08 | jasta | the instrumentation stuffs is pretty cool... |
| 09:06.10 | BBHoss | then wtf is wrong with this shit? |
| 09:06.15 | romainguy_ | I have no diea |
| 09:06.29 | romainguy_ | you keep swearing without giving much details about what you do |
| 09:06.31 | romainguy_ | doesn't help |
| 09:06.35 | BBHoss | so google distributed a totally broken sample directory? |
| 09:06.40 | romainguy_ | no, it is not |
| 09:06.44 | romainguy_ | it works just fine |
| 09:07.03 | BBHoss | NONE OF THE SAMPLES WORK THE ERROR IS THAT IT CANT RESOLVE R, SO ECLIPSE WONT COMPILE THE PACKAGE, PERIOD.... |
| 09:07.26 | BBHoss | there is no more information, no other errors, etc |
| 09:07.31 | jasta | romainguy_: just seems to print a bunch of dots, though. i expected more flare :P |
| 09:07.34 | romainguy_ | BBHoss: yeah I got that, but you still haven't explained how you open the samples in Eclipse, etc. |
| 09:07.44 | BBHoss | romainguy_: i imported the project |
| 09:07.46 | romainguy_ | BBHoss: but if you'd rather keep swearing, good luck to you :) |
| 09:08.03 | romainguy_ | jasta: yeah well, when you run these suckers all day long, you don't want more flare :) |
| 09:08.12 | romainguy_ | especially the UI framework tests |
| 09:08.13 | jasta | i thought the normal junit runner does kind of a test-by-test OK/FAIL thing? |
| 09:08.16 | romainguy_ | they take long enough that way |
| 09:08.25 | romainguy_ | jasta: that's exactly what it is |
| 09:08.30 | romainguy_ | just in a different format |
| 09:08.41 | jasta | oh i get it. each '.' is a successful test, right? |
| 09:08.46 | romainguy_ | each dot is a success |
| 09:08.48 | romainguy_ | E would be a fail |
| 09:09.05 | jasta | that's pretty cool. i wonde rwhy you guys didn't include a build.xml that would let people actually see this :) |
| 09:09.14 | BBHoss | romainguy_: what more do i have to do other than importing the project, i didnt change anything? |
| 09:09.14 | jasta | i'll post something on my blog tomorrow tho. |
| 09:09.39 | romainguy_ | jasta: because we were busy and forgot it |
| 09:09.48 | romainguy_ | our internal build system is based on make |
| 09:09.57 | romainguy_ | so when everything works, it's easy to forget something like this |
| 09:10.01 | romainguy_ | file a bug |
| 09:10.29 | BBHoss | romainguy_: when i start a new project from existing source, it gives me the same error |
| 09:10.44 | romainguy_ | BBHoss: did you install the Android plugin? |
| 09:10.51 | BBHoss | of course |
| 09:10.56 | romainguy_ | or updated to the new one for the current SKD? |
| 09:10.57 | romainguy_ | SDK |
| 09:11.03 | BBHoss | yes, this is all 0.9 |
| 09:11.14 | jasta | did you also configure the Eclipse plugin and specifically point it to the path of your 0.9 SDK? |
| 09:11.18 | BBHoss | i removed eclipse totally before installing the new stuff |
| 09:11.20 | BBHoss | yes |
| 09:12.11 | BBHoss | it works with basic stuff, but any tutorials or samples dont work, for various reasons, maybe they are just old. the main frustration is that i cant get the samples included with 0.9 to work |
| 09:13.35 | BBHoss | sorry for getting upset, i just feel horrible i have some kind of cold or something and it feel like crap... |
| 09:14.05 | romainguy_ | do you have ant installed that you can use from the command line? |
| 09:14.21 | BBHoss | yes, the tools directory is in my path |
| 09:15.21 | BBHoss | compile fail: http://pasternak.superalloy.nl/pastes/763 |
| 09:16.07 | romainguy_ | do you have anything else in the compile log? |
| 09:16.22 | BBHoss | yeah, i can paste it, but i dont think its relevant |
| 09:16.36 | BBHoss | http://pasternak.superalloy.nl/pastes/764 |
| 09:16.38 | romainguy_ | paste it please |
| 09:17.17 | romainguy_ | wait |
| 09:17.25 | romainguy_ | that is not the sample of the new SDK |
| 09:17.56 | BBHoss | the timestamp is August 14 2008 |
| 09:18.06 | romainguy_ | this code is different from the one of the SDK |
| 09:18.14 | romainguy_ | the package is com.google.android.snake instead of com.android.snake |
| 09:18.30 | romainguy_ | and setContentView(R.layout.main) instead of setContentView(R.layout.snake_layout) |
| 09:18.44 | BBHoss | well, when i load it in eclipse, it recognizes the com.google* and com.android* |
| 09:18.58 | BBHoss | lets see what happens if i delete the "old" one |
| 09:19.03 | romainguy_ | then you have the samples from a previous SDK somewhere |
| 09:19.17 | romainguy_ | did you mix the two SDKs? |
| 09:20.10 | BBHoss | no, not to my knowledge |
| 09:20.23 | romainguy_ | looks like you did somehow |
| 09:20.40 | BBHoss | hmm, that might explain my pain |
| 09:20.50 | BBHoss | lemme download a fresh copy and see if its in there |
| 09:20.54 | romainguy_ | ok |
| 09:21.31 | BBHoss | moving all of the old classes into the new package fixed it though |
| 09:21.39 | romainguy_ | you should not have to do this |
| 09:21.46 | romainguy_ | you should not have the old classes |
| 09:24.24 | BBHoss | romainguy_: hmm, it must have gotten mixed up somehow, 'cause the new copy doesn't have the error. Thanks! |
| 09:26.31 | jasta | sweet, got tests set up like ApiDemos in five-client now :) |
| 09:26.42 | jasta | two separate builds ;) |
| 09:26.49 | jasta | but both managed under the same project in eclipse |
| 09:26.56 | jasta | hooray |
| 09:27.30 | BBHoss | where does the emulator store its data? |
| 09:27.44 | BBHoss | home directory? |
| 09:27.54 | jasta | BBHoss: in ~/.android/ |
| 09:28.19 | jasta | romainguy_: this is exciting. thanks for helping me get this goin |
| 09:28.30 | BBHoss | ahh, i just deleted the entire sdk and just booted up the emulator and was like wtf mate? it still has all my data :) |
| 09:28.48 | jasta | thats why you run -wipe-data between releases ;) |
| 09:30.32 | BBHoss | jasta: ok thanks |
| 09:30.35 | romainguy_ | jasta: check out android.test.TouchUtils |
| 09:30.50 | romainguy_ | and android.test.ViewAsserts |
| 09:30.55 | jasta | uhh, where? :) |
| 09:31.04 | romainguy_ | in the API |
| 09:31.17 | jasta | they arent documented :) |
| 09:32.19 | romainguy_ | but the IDE can autocomplete |
| 09:32.30 | jasta | i'll take a look at the classes ;) |
| 09:32.39 | romainguy_ | also instrumented activities have some cool methods |
| 09:32.44 | romainguy_ | like sendKeys() |
| 09:34.47 | tric | jasta: would be really cool if you can write about your problems and solutions somewhere, i wanna use it aswell. |
| 09:36.46 | jasta | tric: i plan to blog about it tomorrow |
| 09:37.00 | Acsia | where s your blog jasta? |
| 09:37.04 | jasta | devtcg.org |
| 09:37.35 | muthu | what does devtcg mean? |
| 09:38.06 | jasta | just something me and some high school friends came up with as a moniker for all of our development efforts. |
| 09:38.33 | jasta | it stuck, and we all still use it for stuff. |
| 09:38.35 | muthu | change it to jastarocksandroid :P |
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| 09:56.07 | jasta | romainguy_: there's a getService() method on ServiceTestCase, is that what i'm supposed to use to get a handle for tests to use? the LocalServiceTest doesn't use that method, but maybe it should? |
| 09:56.55 | jasta | wait nm, that doesn't get the interface to the service :) |
| 09:58.00 | jasta | i guess i should just handle taht myself in setupService and shutdownService? |
| 10:01.28 | Acsia | man |
| 10:01.36 | Acsia | this locking of the db makes it quite hard to instrument |
| 10:05.29 | jasta | oh it seems to run all of these tests in a separate context, so you have to call bindservice each time. that makes sense, i guess. |
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| 10:36.02 | anno^da | good monring guys |
| 10:36.04 | anno^da | morning |
| 10:36.08 | jasta | mornin |
| 10:37.14 | anno^da | jasta: I like the post that you gave me yesterday. This kind of stopping I/O is really great. |
| 10:37.28 | anno^da | I got a few questions later on. |
| 10:37.39 | anno^da | regarding that. |
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| 10:41.11 | jasta | anno^da: sure... |
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| 10:44.04 | jasta | anno^da: ill be going to bed soon fyi |
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| 10:45.08 | anno^da | Yeah no problem. I have to end up my project here so dont wait. I have to write down all the questions the next days. |
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| 11:08.12 | jasta | *sweet*, the five-client project now has unit tests in SVN |
| 11:08.53 | jasta | http://code.google.com/p/five/source/browse/#svn/trunk/five-client/tests |
| 11:08.56 | anno^da | Oh testing I should do that as well in my next project :> |
| 11:09.44 | jasta | it's total black magic right now, undocumented completely in Android |
| 11:09.56 | jasta | but it does work. the apidemos has a pretty crude sample that you can use for reference. |
| 11:10.02 | jasta | and i just also produced some tests |
| 11:10.11 | anno^da | :) |
| 11:11.01 | anno^da | But I can tell you that it is pretty satisfying seeing my first app running :> |
| 11:14.31 | yakischloba | oh go to bed jeez |
| 11:14.45 | jasta | yakischloba: me? :) |
| 11:15.02 | yakischloba | jasta: yes you. you have no business being up when anno^da is having breakfast or w/e ;) |
| 11:15.15 | jasta | yakischloba: well what are you doing here? :) |
| 11:15.41 | yakischloba | jasta: getting home from my last loco evening out before getting serious about the new job and winter training |
| 11:16.11 | yakischloba | jasta: no excuses now, find your pillow :) |
| 11:16.29 | jasta | yakischloba: well i'm like 20% through fundamentally redesigning the Android side of Five :) |
| 11:17.00 | jasta | basically all of five-client is rewritten and redesigned |
| 11:17.14 | anno^da | :D |
| 11:17.14 | yakischloba | nice |
| 11:17.21 | anno^da | yakischloba: I'm back from lunch :D |
| 11:17.28 | jasta | it's much faster and more correct :) |
| 11:17.35 | jasta | both in design and implementation |
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| 11:17.42 | jasta | and it's a heck of a lot simpler, too |
| 11:17.49 | yakischloba | well I, at this time, and much slow and less correct |
| 11:17.55 | yakischloba | in both design and implementation |
| 11:18.02 | yakischloba | s/and/am |
| 11:18.15 | yakischloba | blah |
| 11:18.22 | jasta | this is why i was so excited to have a near stable release finally. now i can really move in and start cementing some shit down |
| 11:18.28 | jasta | and making a design and code base i can be proud of |
| 11:18.46 | jasta | instead of all this spaghetti crap i had in there before |
| 11:18.53 | yakischloba | you have plenty to be proud of. everything in moderation now ;) |
| 11:19.05 | jasta | im very happy to finally have unit testing neatly integrated |
| 11:19.05 | yakischloba | not that I adhere to that but I'll preach it anyways |
| 11:19.12 | yakischloba | maybe I'll listen to myself someday |
| 11:19.16 | jasta | once the maven plugin is updated (grr, i may have to just submit patches) i'll be on my way again |
| 11:20.13 | BBHoss | jasta: what protocol does your client for five use? |
| 11:21.10 | jasta | BBHoss: ofr talking over the internet? SyncML over HTTP, as well as simple HTTP GETs for other stuff. |
| 11:21.29 | BBHoss | are you using something like RESTful design? |
| 11:21.32 | jasta | client and server both do WbXML |
| 11:22.01 | jasta | BBHoss: no, not really. the HTTP GETs i mentioned are just for content delivery which is RESTful but it's mostly just obvious |
| 11:22.29 | jasta | SyncML is a very appropriate protocol here. It is basically a general purpose protocol to synchronize incremental changes between two remote databases. |
| 11:22.31 | yakischloba | rest is over-rated. |
| 11:22.55 | BBHoss | ahh ok, i am planning a mobile version of my app that uses rails and AMQP, and I was going to use XMPP, but it has been removed so i'm wondering what i'm left with |
| 11:22.58 | jasta | With built-in conflict resolution, anchoring, etc. And it specifies the use of WbXML for efficient encoding/parsing. |
| 11:24.05 | jasta | SyncML is maybe not strictly the most efficient way to do this, but it is certainly a fair compromise between flexibility, fault tolerance, and performance. |
| 11:24.41 | jasta | and also i get a robust, free server-side implementation with libsyncml |
| 11:24.42 | BBHoss | my main thing i want to do is push alerts and notifications to each device, individually |
| 11:25.03 | jasta | BBHoss: Yeah, GTalk was kind of supposed to be that I guess. I don't know what's going on there. |
| 11:25.13 | jasta | Maybe the carriers cried foul? They want you to use SMS and pay them big bucks. |
| 11:25.46 | BBHoss | jasta: i think it has to do more with the network load of XMPP, since GTalk is heavily modified XMPP for mobile networsk |
| 11:26.04 | BBHoss | the carriers will get their money with data fees |
| 11:26.10 | jasta | BBHoss: we were talking about two different things... |
| 11:26.28 | jasta | XMPP was removed a while ago |
| 11:26.32 | BBHoss | i know |
| 11:26.39 | anno^da | But in the end some XMPP GTalk implementation will come |
| 11:26.40 | jasta | GTalk remained though, and they were planning to change the protocol away from XMPP completely |
| 11:26.43 | BBHoss | the latest news on gtalk is that there is some security flaw |
| 11:26.47 | jasta | then they removed GTalk completely |
| 11:26.51 | anno^da | no matter if google implements it or not |
| 11:26.57 | BBHoss | thats why gtalk is no longer in there |
| 11:27.06 | jasta | BBHoss: yeah well, we'll see. |
| 11:27.21 | BBHoss | jasta: have you read the post about why they didnt go with xmpp? |
| 11:27.26 | jasta | i still think there's a good possibility google won't be able to get away with using GTalk to "replace" SMS. |
| 11:27.39 | jasta | BBHoss: no, but i assume it's because it's slow and stupid :) |
| 11:27.42 | BBHoss | jasta: i dont think thats the intent |
| 11:27.54 | BBHoss | heh, they want to send intents :) |
| 11:28.07 | jasta | BBHoss: seems like it. a reliable peer-to-peer messaging framework for mobile devices? :) |
| 11:28.31 | yakischloba | sets an example and goes to sleep, knowing that work will come early on Monday |
| 11:28.33 | BBHoss | jasta: well it comes down to that xmpp isnt really suited for mobile, for many reasons, and the Mobile XMPP standard is still a year out |
| 11:28.52 | jasta | BBHoss: right, slow and stupid. :) |
| 11:29.13 | BBHoss | now i think they should give AMQP a look though, its really lightweight |
| 11:29.24 | BBHoss | not sure about connection overhead though |
| 11:29.29 | jasta | follows yakischloba |
| 11:29.34 | BBHoss | heh |
| 11:29.35 | jasta | err, except i'm going to my bed |
| 11:29.36 | BBHoss | night then |
| 11:29.40 | jasta | not his ;) |
| 11:29.41 | jasta | hehe |
| 11:29.49 | jasta | later |
| 11:30.05 | anno^da | n8 jasta |
| 11:30.07 | anno^da | :) |
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| 11:50.51 | Acsia | is is TestSuite working properly? |
| 11:51.01 | Acsia | anyboydy can help with TestSuiteProvider |
| 11:51.02 | Acsia | ? |
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| 12:01.03 | Acsia | how would I creat a one time setUp and tearDown? |
| 12:01.24 | Acsia | is the TestSuit working with instrumentation? |
| 12:04.07 | anno^da | Could someone tell me where I can lookup what the ACTION_PICK for the Images gets me back. I now that it is in the extras of the intent I'm getting back but to get it out of the Bundle I have to know what the bundle content is called |
| 12:04.15 | anno^da | how it is called |
| 12:04.37 | Acsia | log it |
| 12:22.19 | anno^da | data=Intent { data=content://media/external/images/media/8 } <- thats what I'm getting I've tested now getString("data") bot doesnt finde it. I've debugged it but dont get the point how I could get it out. There must be some docu for that. |
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| 12:25.40 | _Marvin_ | hello there... |
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| 12:32.59 | anno^da | lol easy as pie data.getData(); :( |
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| 12:53.14 | anno^da | What is the right way to put a URI into a Bundle ? Should I submit it as a string and at the receiver turn it back into a URI? |
| 12:59.13 | inZane- | i guess that's the only way |
| 13:00.14 | inZane- | since there is not setData method like in Intent |
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| 13:02.40 | muthu | jasta: nice jobs with tests |
| 13:03.51 | muthu | olympics closes finally |
| 13:04.06 | muthu | china is the new superpower |
| 13:04.08 | anno^da | setParcelable works @ inZane- |
| 13:04.16 | anno^da | put.. :D |
| 13:04.36 | anno^da | well China how many people live there :P |
| 13:05.22 | inZane- | URI implements parcelable? |
| 13:08.28 | muthu | yeah, there's a lot of people in india too |
| 13:09.19 | anno^da | inZane-: yeah that works but I got a bigger problem now |
| 13:11.00 | anno^da | I want to create a File out of a Uri and dont know what is the right way to do that |
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| 13:11.38 | muthu | anno^da: use the file api |
| 13:11.47 | inZane- | no |
| 13:11.49 | anno^da | At first I thought String path = uri.getPath() ; File file = new File(path); But that gives me a file which is null |
| 13:11.51 | inZane- | Context.openFileOutput() |
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| 13:13.29 | anno^da | well that method takes a String and not an Uri |
| 13:14.26 | anno^da | is it not possible to get a valid file path out of the uri |
| 13:15.07 | inZane- | why are you using an uri for a file? |
| 13:15.33 | anno^da | well I'm choosing a picture with the Pick action |
| 13:15.43 | anno^da | and so I#m getting back an URI |
| 13:15.48 | anno^da | to the picked image |
| 13:15.58 | anno^da | So I have to deal with the Uri :) |
| 13:16.26 | muthu | what's the string rep of this uri? |
| 13:16.26 | anno^da | And I need a File because I have to put that into the MultiPart Message :) |
| 13:16.51 | anno^da | Picture Path: /external/images/media/8 |
| 13:17.02 | anno^da | thats what I get if I'm calling uri.getPath() |
| 13:17.13 | muthu | uri.tostring? |
| 13:17.16 | anno^da | just that "/external/images/media/8" |
| 13:17.21 | anno^da | oh let me test |
| 13:18.05 | muthu | that'll work with a content provider |
| 13:18.13 | inZane- | arent the images saved in the contentprovider? |
| 13:18.24 | inZane- | i mean the sqlite database |
| 13:18.52 | anno^da | muthu: 08-24 15:18:33.760: ERROR/PHOTO_CHOOSE(3209): content://media/external/images/media/8 |
| 13:19.02 | muthu | yeah |
| 13:19.10 | muthu | so its a uri which will work with a content provider |
| 13:20.26 | anno^da | but cmon the Uri is the representation of the file in the content provider there must be some easy way to get the real path to the file directly from the Uri :D |
| 13:21.36 | muthu | the content provider will store that in a path |
| 13:21.45 | muthu | not sure if that would be accessible to you directly |
| 13:29.02 | muthu | london represented by an indian girl |
| 13:29.40 | muthu | hmm.. london diversity is shining |
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| 14:21.24 | anno^da | Oh man I got it now |
| 14:22.11 | anno^da | it is so long winded to do add a photo from an uri to a multipart message :) |
| 14:22.21 | muthu | how you did? |
| 14:24.28 | anno^da | http://paste.pocoo.org/show/83196/ |
| 14:24.49 | muthu | gr8..checking out |
| 14:25.12 | anno^da | the uri is in a parcelable because I had to transport it to my FlickrClient class :) |
| 14:26.11 | anno^da | with a normal file path it is 3 lines of code :) |
| 14:30.15 | anno^da | But ok I wont complain it is working fine now :D |
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| 15:45.25 | anno^da | Does someone know if picking of audio should work ? (ACTION_PICK) |
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| 17:08.12 | Pakalaka | When installing android sdk on linux should I copy it to my home directory or to /opt for instance under the filesystem and under the control of root? |
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| 17:13.09 | anno^da | Coule someone tell me if there is one working example for audio recording with the MediaRecorder? I'm getting crazy dealing with the faulty examples :/ |
| 17:14.30 | muthu | Pakalaka: whatever you are comfortable with |
| 17:15.21 | trigatch4 | whattup folks |
| 17:15.42 | trigatch4 | anyone have a minute to offer an opinion for me? |
| 17:17.47 | muthu | trigatch4: we are here |
| 17:17.54 | muthu | 24x7 logged in |
| 17:18.01 | muthu | to offer opinions all the time |
| 17:18.03 | trigatch4 | hehe, thats the spirit |
| 17:18.25 | trigatch4 | 24/7? jeez you must be some kind of robot or something... |
| 17:18.32 | trigatch4 | maybe... an android or something... hehe |
| 17:18.36 | muthu | hehe |
| 17:18.46 | trigatch4 | so i'm trying to organize my forum |
| 17:18.51 | trigatch4 | i'm going to be promoting it more heavily |
| 17:18.56 | trigatch4 | now that android is actually starting to surface |
| 17:19.00 | trigatch4 | as a consumer product |
| 17:19.05 | muthu | yeah android is coming.. |
| 17:19.08 | trigatch4 | and i want to get some opinions on organization of the forums |
| 17:19.16 | trigatch4 | forums to add, delete, ordering, etc.. |
| 17:19.21 | trigatch4 | http://androidforums.com |
| 17:19.25 | muthu | let me look |
| 17:19.54 | trigatch4 | honest criticism/suggestions appreciated |
| 17:19.57 | muthu | here's an idea: |
| 17:20.02 | muthu | have code snippets |
| 17:20.15 | muthu | Android Code Snippets |
| 17:20.18 | Pakalaka | thank you. |
| 17:20.24 | muthu | where we can post bits of code |
| 17:20.49 | anno^da | Well my first opionion looking at the page was - dont fix it to such a width. I'm getting 40% of my screen filled |
| 17:21.25 | muthu | yeah, make it 100% |
| 17:21.33 | muthu | for a forum use all the real estate you can |
| 17:21.47 | anno^da | And regarding the code snippets I would like to see some working MediaRecorder recording Audio :D |
| 17:22.27 | muthu | anno^da: the idea is inspired from you |
| 17:22.34 | muthu | you keep posting the pastebin code |
| 17:22.41 | trigatch4 | use fluid width? |
| 17:22.42 | anno^da | It's annoying that I'm guessing all the time beacause all the examples in the docs fail. |
| 17:22.52 | trigatch4 | problem is some people have huge screens and then it looks idiotic |
| 17:22.56 | muthu | and i thought, it would be nice to post these code snippets somewhere where users can browse |
| 17:23.01 | trigatch4 | what if i spread the width to like 960px or so |
| 17:23.02 | anno^da | muthu: I will post the first working example. |
| 17:23.14 | muthu | i know ;) |
| 17:23.31 | trigatch4 | Code Snippets? |
| 17:23.41 | trigatch4 | See I'm not a developer... so that would be difficult for me |
| 17:23.41 | muthu | yes, like cookbook style |
| 17:23.47 | trigatch4 | thats something that members would have to do themselves |
| 17:23.49 | trigatch4 | hehe |
| 17:23.50 | muthu | trigatch4: its not for you |
| 17:23.54 | muthu | its for the users |
| 17:24.02 | trigatch4 | right but i couldn't implement it |
| 17:24.02 | muthu | and android developers would find it useful |
| 17:24.08 | muthu | what? |
| 17:24.22 | trigatch4 | i have a developers forum... |
| 17:24.26 | muthu | creating a subforum is that hard? |
| 17:24.30 | trigatch4 | i'm confused as to what you're suggesting |
| 17:24.40 | muthu | Android Apps |
| 17:24.41 | trigatch4 | oh so just make a subforum called "code snippets" |
| 17:24.42 | muthu | Android Games |
| 17:24.47 | muthu | Android Themes |
| 17:24.50 | muthu | the same way.. |
| 17:24.53 | muthu | another sub forum called |
| 17:24.59 | muthu | Android Code Snippets |
| 17:25.13 | anno^da | Android Open Source Apps :D |
| 17:25.21 | trigatch4 | so maybe i should make "Android Developers" a category instead of a forum |
| 17:25.23 | trigatch4 | and have |
| 17:25.32 | trigatch4 | Code Snippets be a forum in that category |
| 17:25.55 | muthu | yes |
| 17:26.12 | muthu | and i know that's going to be very active |
| 17:26.20 | muthu | since we are dealing with bits of code all the time |
| 17:26.30 | muthu | and would be nice to put it somewhere for future reference |
| 17:26.47 | muthu | the google android developers forum suffers from this |
| 17:26.58 | muthu | its a mix of everything, and hard to find working code bits |
| 17:27.48 | trigatch4 | okay... |
| 17:27.50 | trigatch4 | reload |
| 17:28.03 | trigatch4 | i made Android Developer's a category with Code Snippets as a forum |
| 17:28.10 | trigatch4 | I'm going to make Developers Lounge... |
| 17:28.11 | muthu | nice |
| 17:28.12 | trigatch4 | what else? |
| 17:29.13 | trigatch4 | okay so there is a dev lounge, code snippets |
| 17:29.24 | trigatch4 | of course the whole thing is useless unless it has content and members |
| 17:29.29 | muthu | yeah |
| 17:29.32 | trigatch4 | i would gladly do the work |
| 17:29.34 | trigatch4 | and put in snippets |
| 17:29.39 | trigatch4 | but since i'm not a coder |
| 17:29.41 | trigatch4 | i can't really do that |
| 17:29.43 | trigatch4 | ;) |
| 17:29.48 | anno^da | :) |
| 17:29.53 | anno^da | I will add some snippets |
| 17:29.55 | muthu | you can just copy and paste some stuff which is already there in android developers |
| 17:29.56 | trigatch4 | unless there is somewhere I can dig around for it and compile all the info |
| 17:30.23 | trigatch4 | any other categories/subforums that you could see being useful/logical in the developer area? |
| 17:31.03 | muthu | Unit testing |
| 17:31.13 | muthu | Unit Testing / Instrumentation |
| 17:31.21 | muthu | add that as a subforum under developers |
| 17:31.34 | trigatch4 | as one thing? |
| 17:31.41 | muthu | yeah, both means same |
| 17:31.49 | trigatch4 | Unit Testing / Instrumentation ? |
| 17:31.54 | trigatch4 | k |
| 17:31.57 | muthu | it was the hot topic today |
| 17:32.07 | muthu | yup, and more developers are going to begin testing |
| 17:32.59 | trigatch4 | added as requested |
| 17:33.01 | trigatch4 | ;) |
| 17:33.07 | trigatch4 | anything else? |
| 17:33.13 | trigatch4 | android arguments |
| 17:33.15 | trigatch4 | hehe jk |
| 17:33.27 | muthu | hehe |
| 17:33.29 | trigatch4 | SDK updates and important announcements? |
| 17:33.40 | trigatch4 | or would that just be sticky stuff in the Dev Lounge |
| 17:34.21 | muthu | Android Rumors! |
| 17:35.02 | trigatch4 | I have Android News & Talk in the main Android Forum |
| 17:35.07 | trigatch4 | maybe just change "talk" to rumors |
| 17:35.20 | trigatch4 | i thought about that before... it does sound better |
| 17:36.08 | muthu | Android Appstore |
| 17:37.42 | trigatch4 | ? |
| 17:37.48 | trigatch4 | Android Apps is a forum |
| 17:37.52 | trigatch4 | what would be the difference |
| 17:39.01 | muthu | yeah may be apps would do |
| 17:40.37 | trigatch4 | i'm worried about "apps" |
| 17:40.44 | trigatch4 | i feel like that might end up having to be its own category |
| 17:40.49 | trigatch4 | but at some point you just have too many categories |
| 17:41.29 | trigatch4 | so as far as developers category goes... is that good? or should there be more? |
| 17:41.56 | muthu | Android UI |
| 17:43.00 | trigatch4 | Android UI as a forum for developer's |
| 17:43.02 | trigatch4 | ? |
| 17:43.04 | muthu | yes |
| 17:43.11 | muthu | to talk about ui stuff like views/layouts |
| 17:43.17 | trigatch4 | k |
| 17:44.43 | muthu | Android Service |
| 17:44.49 | trigatch4 | whats android service? |
| 17:45.07 | muthu | under developers |
| 17:45.10 | SanMehat | morning |
| 17:45.16 | muthu | service is a topic by itself |
| 17:45.36 | trigatch4 | service meaning??? |
| 17:46.55 | muthu | http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/app/Service.html |
| 17:47.03 | anno^da | A service is one part of an Android application |
| 17:47.21 | anno^da | something that is running in the background doing some work. |
| 17:47.37 | anno^da | For example playing music while the user uses the phone to browse the web or sth like that. |
| 17:47.58 | trigatch4 | so that needs its own subforum? |
| 17:48.03 | muthu | yes |
| 17:48.05 | trigatch4 | Android Service or Android Services? |
| 17:48.14 | muthu | Android Service |
| 17:49.02 | trigatch4 | added |
| 17:50.03 | muthu | Content Providers / SQLite |
| 17:50.08 | muthu | under developers |
| 17:50.52 | trigatch4 | is just "content providers" okay... to keep it more generic/flexible? |
| 17:50.58 | muthu | ok |
| 17:51.27 | muthu | it must be database related |
| 17:51.41 | trigatch4 | added |
| 17:52.13 | muthu | looks good |
| 17:52.19 | muthu | ui to talk about views/layout |
| 17:52.28 | muthu | service for ipc |
| 17:52.30 | trigatch4 | yeah |
| 17:52.33 | muthu | contentproviders for database |
| 17:52.35 | muthu | cool |
| 17:52.49 | trigatch4 | okay... how about the other areas... from a consumer perspective |
| 17:53.12 | trigatch4 | Android Troubleshooting seems kind of redundant... becausze if you have problem its going to be WITH an app, WITH a phone, WITH a theme, etc... right? |
| 17:53.18 | trigatch4 | thinking i should just delete that |
| 17:53.48 | muthu | yup |
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| 17:55.04 | trigatch4 | thinking i should change "Its All Good" to General Discussion |
| 17:55.08 | trigatch4 | or something more logical |
| 17:55.12 | anno^da | Does someone know how to get from a byte[] to a Bitmap ? |
| 17:55.43 | muthu | anno^da: BitMapFactory has some methods |
| 17:55.50 | muthu | trigatch4: yeah make it more specific |
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| 17:57.47 | anno^da | great thx muthu |
| 17:57.56 | muthu | np |
| 17:58.50 | trigatch4 | i'm going to change Android News & Rumors to General Android Discussion and "Its All Good" to Off-Topic |
| 17:58.54 | trigatch4 | good or no good? |
| 17:59.05 | chomchom | Argh, I'm without internets! I got so lonely I've resorted to an iPhone irc client. |
| 17:59.43 | chomchom | It's not too fast typing on this keyboard. |
| 17:59.54 | trigatch4 | htc dream FTW |
| 18:00.02 | trigatch4 | HA... shitty iphone |
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| 18:00.51 | muthu | Android Phones and Carriers |
| 18:00.54 | muthu | and add TMobile |
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| 18:02.06 | anno^da | lol the bitmap factory needs some offset value |
| 18:02.19 | anno^da | but I dont get an offset value by the callback method :/ |
| 18:02.36 | trigatch4 | muthu: if i did phones and carriers i'm going to soon have a billion forums and its going to be a huge pain in the butt for anyone to navigate the homepage |
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| 18:02.52 | trigatch4 | android phones has a carrier/manufacturer inherent for the most part |
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| 18:03.03 | trigatch4 | look at the top... there is "android phones" and the HTC Dream is listed... |
| 18:03.29 | jasta | *yawn* |
| 18:03.31 | trigatch4 | maybe I can make Android Carriers a sub forum in the main Android Area? |
| 18:03.42 | trigatch4 | hey jasta, whats up buddy |
| 18:04.25 | jasta | not much |
| 18:04.33 | jasta | got instrumentation/unit testing working in my project |
| 18:04.36 | jasta | pretty damn sweet actually |
| 18:04.46 | muthu | trigatch4: then list Tmobile |
| 18:05.07 | jasta | i can now test my services using an Android Context and stuff without cluttering my production apks |
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| 18:06.34 | jasta | and there's an android test runner you can invoke through adb shell am |
| 18:07.27 | muthu | jasta: nice |
| 18:09.21 | jasta | muthu: i even figured out how to make it build in a separate apk (not very tricky, as romain hinted) |
| 18:09.46 | jasta | but i really want to hack up the masa plugin to support 0.9r1 so i can have a better build environment for the tests ;) |
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| 18:09.59 | muthu | masa should be pretty straight forward to hack |
| 18:10.29 | jasta | yeah, i'm sure it is. it's basically just translating the default build.xml into Java. |
| 18:10.36 | muthu | probably all we need is to upload the latest jars to the repos |
| 18:10.40 | jasta | so i'd just need to figure out how the build.xml has changed, if at all, and translate those changes back in |
| 18:11.01 | muthu | right |
| 18:11.10 | jasta | should be totally simple i've just been lazy :) |
| 18:11.26 | jasta | but it would be much better than using ant for this and then having this crappy frankensteined build environment |
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| 18:12.45 | muthu | maven is cool |
| 18:13.00 | jasta | totally, i really like it |
| 18:13.13 | muthu | mvn test should run instrumentation |
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| 18:17.01 | trigatch4 | muthu: take a look now... what do you think? |
| 18:19.33 | muthu | let me check |
| 18:20.59 | muthu | Android Apps is confusing |
| 18:21.04 | muthu | is it the apps or the ideas? |
| 18:21.17 | trigatch4 | what do you mean? |
| 18:21.22 | trigatch4 | its for discussing applications |
| 18:21.25 | trigatch4 | that currently exist |
| 18:21.33 | muthu | ok |
| 18:21.42 | trigatch4 | or questions like, "im looking for the best weather application" |
| 18:21.44 | muthu | currently someone has listed ideas |
| 18:22.31 | trigatch4 | Android Tips & Tricks? |
| 18:25.15 | muthu | yup |
| 18:25.18 | muthu | that's a good one |
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| 18:27.16 | trigatch4 | how about multimedia... video, audio, ringtones, television, etc... how would you handle that |
| 18:27.30 | muthu | Android Media |
| 18:28.05 | muthu | GPS, Maps |
| 18:28.13 | muthu | Bluetooth, Wifi |
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| 18:30.08 | trigatch4 | those will all be thread/post icons |
| 18:30.36 | trigatch4 | does that sound okay? |
| 18:31.01 | muthu | having more subforums under developers |
| 18:31.03 | muthu | is a good idea |
| 18:31.11 | muthu | so we can quickly get into topics |
| 18:32.36 | trigatch4 | like it is now? or even more? |
| 18:33.31 | muthu | tips and tricks should be in developers |
| 18:33.54 | trigatch4 | i guess it should be in both |
| 18:33.56 | muthu | there are 2 things here |
| 18:33.56 | trigatch4 | ;) |
| 18:34.00 | muthu | right |
| 18:34.03 | muthu | 1. end users |
| 18:34.06 | muthu | 2. developers |
| 18:35.12 | trigatch4 | right |
| 18:35.18 | trigatch4 | okay added |
| 18:37.33 | trigatch4 | sooooooo |
| 18:37.50 | trigatch4 | i think its set for now in terms of organization and categories/forums... |
| 18:37.56 | trigatch4 | how can i make the developer area USEFUL now |
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| 18:38.10 | trigatch4 | all the right forums with 0 content isn't too helpful |
| 18:38.12 | trigatch4 | ;) |
| 18:38.24 | trigatch4 | and also if nobody is answering your questions |
| 18:38.26 | trigatch4 | hehe |
| 18:38.47 | muthu | you can reorganize based on activity |
| 18:38.47 | trigatch4 | maybe i should add an IRC chat client where people can access this channel |
| 18:46.15 | trigatch4 | alright muthu... now just need suggestions on building it up as a resource developers will WANT to use.. because right now its just empty developer area |
| 18:47.15 | muthu | need to somehow pull developers there |
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| 18:47.22 | muthu | so you need to plug your stuff here ;) |
| 18:47.26 | trigatch4 | jasta, would love your expert opinion as well |
| 18:48.36 | Dougie187 | i think hes gone. |
| 18:49.10 | trigatch4 | dangit |
| 18:49.40 | trigatch4 | unfortunately for you,dougie187, you've just volunteered to give your opinion |
| 18:49.45 | trigatch4 | http://androidforums.com |
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| 18:50.01 | trigatch4 | muthu just helped me edit/organize all the categories/forums |
| 18:50.13 | trigatch4 | to make it more useful and logical for end users and developers alike |
| 18:50.19 | trigatch4 | whatchya think? |
| 18:51.23 | Dougie187 | what are you trying to organize? |
| 18:51.30 | Dougie187 | just the main forum topics? |
| 18:51.42 | trigatch4 | everything... |
| 18:52.10 | trigatch4 | there are no limits to what you can suggest/criticize |
| 18:52.33 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 18:52.49 | Dougie187 | i like how you have the descriptions under the forum names. |
| 18:52.52 | trigatch4 | i also realize that nobody will touch the developer section if its just an empty, abandoned area... so if you have any ideas for research/content i can add upfront i'm willing to do the work' |
| 18:52.55 | Dougie187 | i think you should add more of those. |
| 18:53.01 | trigatch4 | okay.. |
| 18:53.02 | trigatch4 | i'll do that now |
| 18:53.19 | trigatch4 | while i am.. keep the constructive criticism/suggestions coming |
| 18:53.38 | Dougie187 | ill try to. |
| 18:54.50 | Dougie187 | i sort of think off-topic should go in your "horses mouth" category. |
| 18:55.45 | Dougie187 | I also think you should collapse the Phones and carriers into one group. and just have one forum for carriers and one for phones. then threads for the seperate things. because thats going to get huge if you want to have a forum for every phone or every carrier. |
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| 18:57.26 | Pakalaka | anyone know why i should get this error with 0.9 beta? ERROR: Unknown command 'compile' |
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| 19:02.22 | trigatch4 | dougie187... i think having a separate forum for each phone is kind of a must |
| 19:02.29 | trigatch4 | most questions tend to be phone oriented |
| 19:02.35 | trigatch4 | well |
| 19:02.39 | trigatch4 | with an android phone they shouldn't be |
| 19:02.39 | Dougie187 | i think that its going to get huge fast. |
| 19:02.42 | trigatch4 | but they will be |
| 19:02.46 | Dougie187 | personally. |
| 19:02.48 | trigatch4 | yeah i hear that |
| 19:02.53 | Dougie187 | i just think its going to be overkill. |
| 19:03.01 | trigatch4 | because in the first 3 months of 2009 there should be like 10 phones or so at least |
| 19:03.06 | Dougie187 | yeah |
| 19:03.13 | trigatch4 | hmmm |
| 19:03.24 | Dougie187 | so its going to grow fast. and then your main site is going to be complicated and messy to go through. |
| 19:03.32 | trigatch4 | yeah |
| 19:04.00 | trigatch4 | i actually have a pretty good idea |
| 19:04.02 | Dougie187 | ok |
| 19:04.06 | Dougie187 | anyways i have to go for now. |
| 19:04.08 | trigatch4 | i could have a sidebar and just list all the phones/carriers |
| 19:04.12 | Dougie187 | but good luck |
| 19:04.14 | trigatch4 | instead of listing them as forums |
| 19:04.15 | Dougie187 | sure that would work too. |
| 19:04.16 | trigatch4 | thanks man |
| 19:04.17 | trigatch4 | take care |
| 19:04.31 | Dougie187 | or you could just make a phones can carriers main forum. and then sub forums for each one. |
| 19:04.39 | Dougie187 | phones and carriers* |
| 19:05.17 | Dougie187 | but im out. see ya |
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| 19:06.11 | michaelnovakjr__ | howdy |
| 19:07.16 | trigatch4 | whattup michaelnovakjr__ |
| 19:07.26 | trigatch4 | picking up where dougie187 just left off hahaha |
| 19:08.36 | michaelnovakjr__ | :) not much |
| 19:10.16 | michaelnovakjr__ | so what's new in here? |
| 19:10.41 | michaelnovakjr__ | eh, stupid system reboot... be back |
| 19:12.23 | trigatch4 | k |
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| 19:45.08 | cathya | hi |
| 19:45.08 | cathya | whoever is awake |
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| 19:51.12 | cathyal | hi anyone for a few mins to explain if google's android is jsut the OS |
| 19:51.21 | cathyal | or they're coming up with hardware as well |
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| 20:30.30 | trigatch4 | whats up folks |
| 20:30.38 | trigatch4 | anyone around or just idlers |
| 20:31.01 | Ark1 | idler |
| 20:31.16 | _Marvin_ | yo |
| 20:31.21 | chomchom | +1 Idler |
| 20:31.41 | Miek | +1 :p |
| 20:33.50 | _Marvin_ | what's up? well ... watching a movie before a night of sleep and a new week at work.... |
| 20:40.10 | _Marvin_ | feel a bit washed out :) |
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| 20:49.11 | trigatch4 | word |
| 20:49.39 | trigatch4 | any of you mind taking a peek at my android forums? trying to get them going and organize them properly and get geared up here |
| 20:49.49 | trigatch4 | appreciate input, opinions, suggestions, participation, etc... ;) |
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| 20:58.18 | trigatch4 | now everyone is gone.. :( |
| 20:58.30 | trigatch4 | or are they hiding |
| 21:15.22 | trigatch4 | ark1, _marvin_, chomchom, miek - http://androidforums.com - thoughts/feedback? |
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| 22:21.31 | Acsia | trigatch4 can you get openid? |
| 22:21.40 | Acsia | looks very much as anddev |
| 22:21.46 | trigatch4 | can i get what? |
| 22:21.50 | trigatch4 | openid for login |
| 22:21.52 | Acsia | openid login? |
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| 22:21.54 | Acsia | yes |
| 22:21.56 | trigatch4 | on androidforums? |
| 22:21.59 | Acsia | yes |
| 22:22.01 | trigatch4 | hmmm |
| 22:22.02 | trigatch4 | not sure |
| 22:22.07 | Acsia | I am just very lazy tbh |
| 22:22.13 | trigatch4 | i can try and see |
| 22:22.15 | trigatch4 | hahaha |
| 22:22.17 | trigatch4 | thats really lazy |
| 22:22.19 | trigatch4 | ;) |
| 22:22.21 | Acsia | what type of forum are you using? |
| 22:22.30 | Acsia | phpbb? |
| 22:36.02 | trigatch4 | vbulletin |
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| 22:40.40 | trigatch4 | Acsia.. can't do openid |
| 22:41.07 | trigatch4 | you're right... anddev is very similar... just looking at that now for the first time in awhile |
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| 23:18.15 | Dougie187 | good evening everyone. |
| 23:19.19 | umdk1d3 | ohhai ^.^ |
| 23:21.13 | trigatch4 | dougie187 |
| 23:21.16 | trigatch4 | you're back |
| 23:21.21 | trigatch4 | i have been so sad here without you |
| 23:24.29 | gambler | we have all missed you |
| 23:25.49 | Acsia | yesterday I decided that hercules in new york is the best movie of all time |
| 23:28.51 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 23:29.01 | Dougie187 | did you get a lot done trigatch4? |
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| 23:53.58 | trigatch4 | what do you mean by "a lot" |
| 23:54.20 | trigatch4 | dougie187 - look for yourself |
| 23:54.37 | trigatch4 | i need ideas for building it as a "resource" so you all will WANT to use it |
| 23:54.51 | trigatch4 | main problem is that nothing attracts a crowd like a crowd |
| 23:55.00 | trigatch4 | and i don't yet have a crowd |