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| 00:35.33 | trigatch4 | hi folks |
| 00:41.46 | gambler | hi |
| 00:42.18 | gambler | werent you supposed to tell me the secrets of running a good forum |
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| 02:30.54 | plusminus_ | how to get the phone number of a contact? |
| 02:31.44 | plusminus_ | there is a android.provider.Contacts.People.Phones.CONTENT_DIRECTORY which is said to be a "SubTable" ??? Up to now I only knew Tables. Shouldn't there also be a CONTENT_URI ?? |
| 02:33.15 | plusminus_ | like: People.CONTENT_URI.buildUpon().appendPath(People.Phones.CONTENT_DIRECTORY).build() |
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| 02:39.46 | jerkface03 | anyone tried out chrome yet? |
| 02:39.56 | jerkface03 | i think it was a bad decision for them to skin it by default |
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| 02:55.32 | trigatch4 | jerkface03 |
| 02:55.33 | trigatch4 | you there? |
| 02:59.00 | jerkface03 | ya |
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| 03:29.11 | muthu | chrome is going to be part of android.. cool! |
| 03:31.02 | sztanpet | havent they got a browser already? |
| 03:31.12 | muthu | yeah, based on webkit |
| 03:31.28 | sztanpet | whats chrome for then |
| 03:31.49 | muthu | you get chrome in desktop/mobile |
| 03:31.58 | muthu | so your apps would work seamless |
| 03:32.52 | sztanpet | hmpf |
| 03:33.13 | sztanpet | i though theyll just call androids browser chrome |
| 03:33.22 | muthu | not yet |
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| 04:03.59 | trigatch4 | yo muthu jerkface03 |
| 04:04.14 | trigatch4 | still around? |
| 04:04.27 | muthu | trigatch4: yo |
| 04:04.31 | trigatch4 | hey dude |
| 04:04.35 | trigatch4 | you download chrome? |
| 04:04.50 | muthu | waiting on linux |
| 04:05.09 | trigatch4 | Proof that AndroidForums will succeed once the first handsets come out.... |
| 04:05.16 | trigatch4 | http://ChromeSpot.com |
| 04:05.41 | muthu | yeah just registered |
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| 04:05.56 | muthu | remembered androidforums suddenly |
| 04:10.07 | trigatch4 | what? |
| 04:10.12 | trigatch4 | just registered for which? |
| 04:10.22 | muthu | your forum |
| 04:10.41 | trigatch4 | Which one? |
| 04:10.44 | trigatch4 | ;) |
| 04:10.50 | muthu | how many you have? |
| 04:11.02 | trigatch4 | Thats a secret |
| 04:11.08 | muthu | hehe |
| 04:11.13 | muthu | then let me keep my secret |
| 04:11.21 | trigatch4 | What secret do you have? |
| 04:11.36 | muthu | registered for one of your forums |
| 04:15.40 | trigatch4 | hahahah |
| 04:15.58 | trigatch4 | google chrome is sick and i already cant wait for the android version |
| 04:16.17 | trigatch4 | i think they'll be able to do a lot of cool things with syncing your phone browser to your computer browser, bluetooth and all that jazz |
| 04:16.50 | muthu | chrome + gears |
| 04:16.54 | muthu | will do all the magic |
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| 04:20.17 | trigatch4 | muthu can you tell me if this is spam or real? http://www.androidforums.com/showthread.php?t=254 |
| 04:22.18 | muthu | did you extract the rar? |
| 04:22.39 | trigatch4 | no |
| 04:22.41 | trigatch4 | me = scared |
| 04:24.02 | trigatch4 | i was wondering whether or not it was possible, based on what it claims |
| 04:24.14 | muthu | should be |
| 04:24.25 | muthu | 0.9 ships with a few tones |
| 04:24.34 | muthu | may b he's providing more |
| 04:26.36 | trigatch4 | no... i think he is just providing a link to download only the tones |
| 04:30.54 | gambler | this is amazing |
| 04:30.59 | gambler | how many people have asked you if you have tried chrome 'yet'? |
| 04:31.08 | gambler | so far 5 people have asked me today ...and it came out yesterday |
| 04:32.09 | trigatch4 | its all the rage |
| 04:32.12 | trigatch4 | its only in beta |
| 04:32.18 | trigatch4 | i wonder what will happen when/if google promotes it |
| 04:32.31 | trigatch4 | apparently a techcrunch article said it already had 2% global market share |
| 04:33.28 | f00f- | heh yeah |
| 04:33.29 | f00f- | tried it |
| 04:33.32 | f00f- | used it for 3 minutes |
| 04:33.33 | f00f- | closed it |
| 04:33.54 | f00f- | i already have enough trouble syncinc 4 browsers |
| 04:34.05 | f00f- | FF/Opera in win32 and linux |
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| 04:34.25 | snadge | theres an article on slashdot that says.. according to clicky, google chrome has 3% of the web browser market |
| 04:34.30 | snadge | rofl |
| 04:34.44 | f00f- | yeah |
| 04:34.46 | f00f- | insane lollers |
| 04:34.48 | snadge | after day 2 of a beta for windows only |
| 04:34.55 | snadge | that is insane |
| 04:35.27 | muthu | i'm keeping firefox |
| 04:35.37 | snadge | i just switched to swiftfox 3.0.2pre |
| 04:35.39 | muthu | uninstalled all other browsers.. in anticipation of chrome |
| 04:35.57 | snadge | because the ubuntu packaged 3.0.1 firefox.. likes to crash randomly |
| 04:35.58 | plusminus_ | probably a lot of people trying chrome, but 3% is a bit high |
| 04:36.00 | gambler | thats 1% greater than 5 minutes ago...at this rate the market will be conquered by Chrome in 8 hours |
| 04:36.11 | muthu | hehe |
| 04:36.14 | plusminus_ | also that might have been many tech-sites |
| 04:37.23 | snadge | i know quite a few noobs who have tried it .. its almost as if google has tapped into this subconcious need for new web browser |
| 04:38.02 | snadge | how do you manufacture excitement like that |
| 04:39.14 | muthu | you can, if you have a lot of money in the bank |
| 04:45.35 | snadge | yeah but they're not giving the money to media or marketing people |
| 04:45.45 | snadge | they dont have to |
| 04:45.48 | trigatch4 | its because people despise IE |
| 04:45.57 | trigatch4 | and Google is somewhat of the "it" thing |
| 04:46.07 | trigatch4 | the average person doesn't even know what FireFox is... |
| 04:46.17 | trigatch4 | they think its some hackerish linux version of a web browser |
| 04:46.34 | trigatch4 | have you ever had a conversation in like... a grocery store and said "ubuntu" to somebody? |
| 04:46.41 | trigatch4 | try it.. they'll look at you like you havae 23523 heads |
| 04:48.05 | trigatch4 | Chrome is going to be awesome once it comes out of BETA... until then I can see why people would keep FF... I use Chrome for regular browsing and FF for web dev work |
| 04:48.35 | muthu | haha.. ubuntu |
| 04:49.01 | muthu | in ApiDemos, there's a servicebinding and a servicecontroller example |
| 04:49.04 | trigatch4 | muthu.. did you unzip that ringtone folder? |
| 04:49.10 | trigatch4 | it is all mp3 to me and works fine |
| 04:49.20 | muthu | trigatch4: looks like a valid link |
| 04:49.24 | trigatch4 | but i am wondering if someone can confirm this is what is pre-packaged on android? |
| 04:49.51 | trigatch4 | there are 32 ringtones |
| 04:49.57 | muthu | give the forum users a chance to rate etc., |
| 04:50.04 | muthu | so spams can be voted down |
| 04:50.27 | muthu | is there a preference between binding and controller? |
| 04:51.04 | muthu | if i need a service, do i follow the remoteservicebinding or the remoteservicecontroller example? |
| 04:51.15 | muthu | jasta: the android guru |
| 04:51.24 | muthu | has he yawned yet? |
| 04:51.26 | muthu | lol |
| 04:52.03 | muthu | looks like the binding also registers the callbacks |
| 04:55.16 | muthu | hmm, the controller calls start and the binding calls bind |
| 04:55.20 | muthu | that's the only diff i see |
| 04:56.18 | muthu | oh ok |
| 04:56.26 | muthu | bind does not call onstart |
| 04:57.54 | muthu | a few design decisions in android is ambiguous |
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| 05:35.09 | jasta | muthu: depends on what you're looking for, you could follow some code in five-client if you want. |
| 05:35.22 | jasta | specifically, i have a ServiceActivity class which you might find useful. |
| 05:35.37 | jasta | its for critically binding an activity to a service. |
| 05:38.04 | jasta | muthu: and yes, this part of Android is in my opinion quite ambiguous. the ApiDemos are not practical at all |
| 05:38.41 | jasta | it took a lot of experimentation to figure out the proper way to do this. see activity/SourceList.java in five-client for some hints as to how this can be done well. |
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| 05:42.00 | jasta | that activity also demonstrates my StatefulListView widget, which offers a very efficient way to attach UI state to a list backed by a cursor |
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| 06:26.13 | jasta | you know what would be a great Android app i just thought of... |
| 06:26.15 | jasta | a stargazing aid. |
| 06:26.38 | jasta | a program to map the star landscape for your location and given time, or other arbitrary settings. |
| 06:26.45 | jasta | and to show you what's neat to look at, etc. |
| 06:26.55 | jasta | when a good time would be to see upcoming events like eclipses, meteor showers, etc. |
| 06:27.21 | jasta | that would be a really great tool. |
| 06:27.28 | romainguy | actually you can make this even better |
| 06:27.44 | jasta | like stellarium for linux, but more of a guide feature added to it |
| 06:27.50 | romainguy | if you have a device that supports compass, GPS and orientation sensors, you can find what you're looking at :) |
| 06:28.29 | jasta | the basic premise is not so difficult (it is a well solved problem with lots of public data). the task would simply be miniaturizing it all some fare bit. |
| 06:28.50 | jasta | and it would be a very practical application for a mobile device. |
| 06:28.55 | jasta | i would absolutely love something like this. |
| 06:31.09 | jasta | it could even become really popular among lay persons if it was made more like a tour guide of the night sky as well as a general mapping utility |
| 06:31.23 | jasta | i just did a quick google search and the crop of apps like this for existing mobiles are disappointingly basic. |
| 06:35.26 | jasta | romainguy: i looked at buying a new, modern telescope a while back and they have really gotten incredibly advanced. |
| 06:35.49 | jasta | romainguy: you can orient them with a simple calibration exercise and they will pick what's interesting to look at and automatically move the telescope to look at it |
| 06:36.22 | jasta | so you get a menu on the telescope and you could pick, say, Mercury, wait a moment, and look through the telescope at Mercury. |
| 06:36.25 | jasta | incredible. |
| 06:36.27 | gambler | whats the name of that app to stitch photos together? that+your phone camera is your sextant + System.Time...voila GPS calibration utility/error calculator. |
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| 12:02.31 | muthu | 1 big service, or many small service - is there a recommended practice here? |
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| 12:03.53 | gambler | 1 big service will be easier to handle |
| 12:04.17 | muthu | right, but smaller services might be more flexible |
| 12:05.19 | gambler | maybe you can change to smaller services later if you need to. |
| 12:05.36 | muthu | good idea |
| 12:20.24 | tric | start with one big service, but define multiple interfaces. |
| 12:20.41 | tric | so there wont be much work later when splitting it up |
| 12:21.14 | muthu | in the apidemos, there's primary and secondary |
| 12:22.29 | muthu | two interfaces exposed via a single interface |
| 12:22.36 | muthu | not sure if this is a good design |
| 12:23.48 | muthu | oh |
| 12:24.01 | muthu | its a single service with 2 service connections |
| 12:25.57 | muthu | got it |
| 12:26.52 | muthu | the example demonstrates how you can nicely group your related services |
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| 12:37.00 | Proteus | is there a plan for using languages other than java for android progrmming? |
| 12:38.45 | swetland | there are two -- near term, one could write other front-ends that would generate .dex output for different languages. long term, supporting different runtime environments is doable, partially due to the platform security model being based around linux processes and process boundaries, not the VM itself |
| 12:40.28 | muthu | this is a great move, to pull all kinds of developers into android |
| 12:48.00 | Proteus | I mainly use objective caml, c, c++ which seems like I might need to wait a long time before these languages are supported. "pull in all kinds of developers into android" - I'm loooking for some sort of time table |
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| 14:04.17 | muthu | any example for AliasActivity? |
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| 14:19.02 | zhobbs | did something change with Notification? I'm creating a notification like: |
| 14:19.03 | zhobbs | Notification notification = new Notification(R.drawable.icon, "testing 123", System.currentTimeMillis()); |
| 14:19.19 | zhobbs | nm.notify(NOTIFY_ID, notification); |
| 14:19.37 | zhobbs | and getting "09-04 10:11:18.251: ERROR/AndroidRuntime(193): java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: contentView required: pkg=com.tunewiki.lyricplayer.android id=39340944 notification=Notification(vibrate=null,sound=null,defaults=0x0)" |
| 14:20.33 | muthu | setLatestInfo ? |
| 14:20.52 | muthu | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:20.53 | muthu | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:20.53 | muthu | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:21.40 | zhobbs | ok...guess that's not optional anymore huh |
| 14:21.50 | muthu | looks like it |
| 14:22.21 | zhobbs | thanks |
| 14:22.41 | muthu | how you been zhobbs? |
| 14:22.46 | muthu | are you back? |
| 14:22.51 | zhobbs | yep |
| 14:22.57 | muthu | huh |
| 14:22.57 | zhobbs | doing well |
| 14:23.07 | zhobbs | getting everything ported to 0.9 |
| 14:23.07 | muthu | was waiting for you in chennai ;) |
| 14:23.11 | zhobbs | ha |
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| 14:37.32 | zhobbs | hmmm, not sure why we need PendingIntent in addition to Intent |
| 14:38.03 | muthu | just use PI |
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| 14:38.41 | muthu | http://www.ariwriter.com/2008/09/top-260-successful-and-outstanding.html |
| 14:38.58 | muthu | 33-34. Michael Martin ⦠Google Android Phones Latest News + gPhone Information MTV Real World Road Rules News |
| 14:39.14 | muthu | wow! a google blog and an mtv blog |
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| 14:39.37 | tomgibara | zhobbs: Are you asking what purpose PendingIntent serves in general? |
| 14:40.13 | zhobbs | tomgibara: yeah |
| 14:40.48 | tomgibara | You use it when you want another process to invoke an intent with the privileges of its creator |
| 14:41.06 | tomgibara | (there may be other uses too) |
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| 14:42.41 | zhobbs | I just never thought about privileges and Intents...seemed like anyone can call any Intent and it would work |
| 14:44.26 | zhobbs | hmmm, IntentFilters have authority fields now |
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| 14:58.26 | Proteus | is there a plan for using languages other than java for android progrmming? |
| 15:01.04 | tomgibara | Proteus: Not outside of the Dalvik VM, no. |
| 15:01.31 | Proteus | unfortunate |
| 15:02.11 | tomgibara | secure |
| 15:02.18 | Proteus | not necessarily |
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| 15:02.55 | gambler | Proteus, you could always code raw dalvik ... |
| 15:03.52 | Proteus | gambler, I'm considering porting the ocaml-java project to get objective caml bytecode to run on dalvik |
| 15:04.34 | tomgibara | Proteus: Yes, nothing is necessarily secure - I think one of the main reason for Dalvik is keeping memory usage down |
| 15:04.39 | gambler | what does it target now - jvm? |
| 15:04.52 | Proteus | yeah, ocaml-java targets the jvm |
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| 15:06.39 | tomgibara | I imagine ocaml would be a fit for mobile apps - much closer to the performance of C, but properly typesafe |
| 15:09.55 | Proteus | tomgibara, that's my idea. the language is designed so that so many of the things the jvm/dalvik security has to check for just aren't issues because they're caught at compile time. Furthermore, I like the assurances I can get from the ocaml compiler/debugger that my code is robust and will perform just as I intend it to (ideally). Finally, it allows for much higher level programming when it's useful but is far less verbose than java. |
| 15:10.36 | Proteus | It just seems like a good fit for a mobile app and, obviously, my skills are biased towards ocaml |
| 15:12.15 | Proteus | java has more extensive libraries. combining the strengths of both is attractive |
| 15:12.28 | cbeust_ | The guarantee that the OCaml compiler offers are not that much better than Java's (but better than C's, that's true) |
| 15:12.43 | Proteus | similar to how you can link ocaml code directly to c |
| 15:13.49 | Proteus | I think the guarantee is superior, but I'm more interested in higher levels of abstraction and less verbosity. |
| 15:14.18 | cbeust_ | Less verbosity is not always a good thing either... (see Haskell :)) |
| 15:14.24 | Proteus | haha |
| 15:14.48 | Proteus | ocaml is a very practical language |
| 15:14.54 | Proteus | haskell is a religion |
| 15:15.01 | cbeust_ | Fair enough |
| 15:16.46 | tomgibara | ocaml is a very good language, it allows a higher degree of abstraction than Java and performs well |
| 15:16.59 | tomgibara | The lack of unicode in the core language winds me up though |
| 15:17.03 | Proteus | what I mean is that haskell _enforces_ a way of thinking about coding and about solving problems whereas ocaml is totally mulitiparadigm. You can write ocaml code that doesn't look that different from any other imperitive language, or you can write elaborate functional code. It's about staying as close to the problem as possible |
| 15:17.22 | Proteus | unicode? there's a fine library for that |
| 15:17.25 | Proteus | camomile |
| 15:17.46 | tomgibara | I know, I've used it, but it's not the same as having it in the language |
| 15:18.33 | cbeust_ | I was pleasantly surprised at how well ocaml behaved on the coding challenge (http://beust.com/weblog/archives/000493.html) |
| 15:19.01 | Proteus | I guess it's arguable. But the syntax is completely customizable with caml4p |
| 15:19.49 | gambler | wouldnt ocaml with android just look like java or would you alter the syntax? ...to me android is mostly just a fancy gui toolkit |
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| 15:20.54 | Proteus | hrmm |
| 15:21.11 | Proteus | I'm not sure what you mean by 'just look like java' |
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| 15:23.30 | gambler | well android is a set of classes with java semantics. what is the advantage of doing it in ocaml? |
| 15:25.16 | Proteus | if you mean the way it would interface with the rest of the system then I suppose one would want it to be as easy as possible to go between java codded *stuff* and ocaml coded *stuff*. However, I'd mostly just want to write certain algorithimsm with better clarity or performance in one language or the other. Obviously java is the primary language, so at first I'd just want to be able to call ocaml functions/modules/classes in specific ce |
| 15:25.16 | Proteus | rcumstanes, with the overall framework being written in java. |
| 15:26.41 | Proteus | there's no reason the android system and gui calls couldn't be just as easily written in OO ocaml as they are currently. |
| 15:27.24 | gambler | I never learned ocaml but someone told me it is similiar to lisp...is that right? |
| 15:27.32 | Proteus | noooooo |
| 15:28.01 | Proteus | lisp is a totally different beast |
| 15:28.25 | gambler | ah...well ill have to try it. Im pretty rusty on anything non imperative these days |
| 15:29.00 | Proteus | http://www.cs.caltech.edu/courses/cs134/cs134b/book.pdf |
| 15:29.05 | Proteus | this is a good introduction |
| 15:30.22 | Proteus | the syntax can look a rather scary at first but once you get what's going on it's quite fluid and elegant |
| 15:31.04 | Proteus | for questions, there's the #ocaml channel and two great mailing lists |
| 15:32.19 | gambler | Ive added it to my reading list... |
| 15:36.34 | Proteus | if you're curious about security and ocaml you might want to check out the Coq (pronounced like you think, but it's just the word for rooster in french, and it was written in france) theorom assistant. ocaml code can be formally verified with _relatve_ ease because of its design: ocaml is based on the mathematics of the typed lambda calculus. Java, of course, isn't based on any formal system. |
| 15:37.23 | cbeust_ | I studied there (INRIA) |
| 15:37.34 | Proteus | hey, cool |
| 15:38.26 | cbeust_ | And yes, the people who named Coq probably didn't master English very well :) |
| 15:38.40 | Proteus | hahahaaha |
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| 15:39.00 | gambler | Better than naming it clit |
| 15:39.07 | Proteus | well, the rooster is a national symbol France. |
| 15:39.13 | cbeust_ | yup |
| 15:39.36 | Proteus | it's interesting we pronounce the word the same, spell it differently, but it referrs to the same animal |
| 15:44.42 | Proteus | since android is going to be using java for a while though, I have a few questions. First, I've got the Core Java books - is this a good place to start? Second, I want to do real time sound synthesys in java, on android platforms - where can I find more out about doing this in java and are the current and near-future android phones going to be able to handle the computation? Third, doing 2d/3d graphics and animation with openglES from ja |
| 15:44.42 | Proteus | va - are there tutorials on the web that would help me do this with the restraints of an embededd system? I've done a good deal of 3d modeling and even some game programming, but I don't know how to account for the severe processor restrictions |
| 15:48.39 | Proteus | basically, I'm looking for help getting started. |
| 15:49.07 | Cedric2 | Proteus: I hear the Thinking in Java book is a good starting point for Java but I haven't looked at beginner's book in a long time |
| 15:49.27 | muthu | you can dive into android and then slowly learn the java concepts as required |
| 15:49.59 | gambler | Proteus, You said before you code C++ right? |
| 15:50.02 | muthu | Proteus: http://javapassion.com/ |
| 15:50.16 | Cedric2 | Ah if you already know C++ then learning Java will be trivial |
| 15:50.19 | Proteus | Cedric2, I'm not exactly a _beginner_ I don't need to be hand held through what a loop does, I'm just a beginner with java. |
| 15:51.04 | gambler | java is just C++ with fewer features and you dont have to worry about memory mgmt. |
| 15:51.09 | gambler | as much... |
| 15:51.34 | Cedric2 | Yes if you already know C++, you probably don't even need to get a book to learn Java |
| 15:52.30 | Proteus | I used to do c++ in class, but that's about it. I'm trying to relearn it while I work with Ogre3D - so, I think I really do need some help learning java |
| 15:53.42 | Proteus | I'm also really concerned with getting some pretty math heavy code to run without hiccups on an actual phone |
| 15:58.05 | Proteus | incidentally, I've read about aspectJ and I'd like to try it out in an serious program. Google isn't using the usual JVM, am I going to run into problems with incompatable tools/libs? |
| 15:58.28 | gambler | yes... |
| 15:58.53 | Proteus | is there a list of stuff to avoid? |
| 15:58.59 | Cedric2 | Yes, you will have a very hard time adapting something like AspectJ to dex |
| 15:59.14 | Cedric2 | Let me rephrase that: it might not be hard, but it's a lot of work :) |
| 15:59.32 | Proteus | huh. too bad. |
| 15:59.50 | gambler | i looked into this recently for a little translator I have written using antlr. I wanted to generated aspect J |
| 16:00.08 | gambler | the problem is that it generated JVM bytecode instead of java source |
| 16:00.09 | Cedric2 | The first step would be to implement a dex bytecode weaver |
| 16:00.47 | gambler | you can decompile it back to java source but its really messy, its a feature of the aspect bench compiler (abc) |
| 16:01.12 | Proteus | yikes. |
| 16:01.30 | gambler | or you can try to get the runtime dep running on android and change your workflow to suit it |
| 16:01.59 | Cedric2 | Proteus: at any rate, this kind of project doesn't strike me as a good Java starter project :) |
| 16:02.09 | gambler | i think the original version of aspectJ (like v1.0) was able to compile to source. I so far havent tried it yet. |
| 16:02.09 | Proteus | haha, yeah. |
| 16:02.34 | gambler | also the aspectJ CVS repository is very poorly maintained in my opinion. |
| 16:02.35 | Proteus | There are probably simple weavers out there that would work fine |
| 16:03.05 | gambler | If you end up playing with it, let me know because I really like the AspectJ approach, although I dont love the implementation. |
| 16:03.38 | Proteus | will do |
| 16:03.53 | Proteus | but like Cedric2 said, it's really not a starter project |
| 16:04.45 | gambler | yah probably not |
| 16:04.54 | Proteus | out of curiosity, what sort of stuff are you guys developing for android? |
| 16:05.14 | Cedric2 | I work *on* Android |
| 16:05.27 | Proteus | aah |
| 16:05.37 | Proteus | cool |
| 16:06.01 | gambler | Im just working on hello world 0.1 |
| 16:06.50 | muthu | Proteus: http://code.google.com/android/adc_gallery/ |
| 16:08.49 | tethridge | muthu, when did they post that page? |
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| 16:09.24 | muthu | tethridge: its been like a week |
| 16:10.20 | Proteus | muthu, that gives a pretty good overview, thanks. |
| 16:10.34 | muthu | welcome |
| 16:10.55 | tethridge | I'm surprised that tunewiki isn't available for the iphone |
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| 16:13.34 | tethridge | it seems like gocart and compare everywhere are the same concept |
| 16:13.58 | muthu | similar, yes |
| 16:15.30 | Proteus | Cedric2, perhaps you'd be best to ask about what I can expect in terms of performance restrictions in the near-mid term future? from what I've heard, the first crop of phones aren't too powerful and use the most primitive form of opengles (I think). Perhaps we could do a priviate channel and I can tell you exactly what I want to do and you can tell me if it's flat out impossible? |
| 16:16.56 | Cedric2 | You're right about OpenGL ES but I'm afraid I can't comment more about the hardware part (mostly because I don't know much, to be honest) |
| 16:18.03 | gambler | meh, optimizing even for embedded is a dying art. qualcomm are shipping 1ghz mobile phone processors now |
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| 16:18.24 | Cedric2 | gambler: you say that as if it's a bad thing... |
| 16:18.45 | Cedric2 | I still have scars from the early J2ME days where we put everything in a single class to save bytes and made sure all the classes were in the default package |
| 16:18.51 | gambler | just the facts ma'am |
| 16:19.34 | gambler | yes...I wrote a useless gym and diet tracking J2ME app. Even that was rather sluggish. I hope someone writes a better one for android. |
| 16:19.56 | romainguy__ | Proteus: the first phones will ship with OpenGL ES 1.0 and some of 1.1 |
| 16:20.21 | tomgibara | I posted a message to the android-security-discuss group more than two days ago and it's still not appeared - is anyone actively moderating that group? |
| 16:21.05 | romainguy__ | tomgibara: can you try to resend it? |
| 16:21.05 | Proteus | romainguy__, thanks. |
| 16:21.20 | gambler | Cedric2, I think we are on the cusp of a personal computing revolution and I cant wait to throw away my notebook computer |
| 16:21.41 | Cedric2 | gambler: I suggest you keep it around for a while longer, there is something to be said for mice, full size keyboards and big screens |
| 16:21.50 | romainguy__ | Proteus: as for the power aspect of your question, I have played with phones that are considered powerful, and it doesn't give you much |
| 16:22.39 | gambler | Cedric2, in my vision we just cruise up to the robust physical terminals sprinkled everywhere and we get that secure VNC into our phone |
| 16:22.41 | Proteus | romainguy, that's disheartening |
| 16:22.46 | tomgibara | romainguy_: I'll have to do it later, I'm off out now - it was just seeking clarification on what security mechanisms are in place when the phone is answered from a locked state. |
| 16:22.51 | romainguy__ | Proteus: it depends on what you want to do |
| 16:23.05 | romainguy__ | Proteus: remember the early videos of Android we published, we showed Quake 1 running |
| 16:23.14 | romainguy__ | but you won't get much more than that |
| 16:23.50 | SanMehat | morning |
| 16:24.14 | gambler | hi San |
| 16:24.28 | Proteus | aaahhhh, I know - I'd really like to get some feedback on how feasable my projects are with android and the current crop of phones without throwing away my ideas to another app guy (I'm a dirt poor student looking to sell apps to get some kind of an income) |
| 16:24.31 | romainguy__ | yo SanMehat |
| 16:24.31 | romainguy__ | slacking today? :)) |
| 16:24.34 | SanMehat | gambler: how you doing ? |
| 16:24.47 | SanMehat | romainguy__: no i'm sick.. got a nasty cold so i'm working on design docs from home :) |
| 16:25.07 | romainguy__ | what's your idea? |
| 16:25.35 | Proteus | you work for goole? |
| 16:25.43 | Proteus | google |
| 16:25.47 | SanMehat | ya |
| 16:26.37 | SanMehat | romainguy__: prv |
| 16:27.22 | romainguy__ | design docs? cool |
| 16:27.22 | romainguy__ | that said today I'm working on documentation |
| 16:27.22 | romainguy__ | Proteus: yes I work on Android |
| 16:27.39 | Proteus | would either/both of you give me a min in a private channel? |
| 16:28.06 | romainguy__ | can't you ask your question here? |
| 16:28.39 | Proteus | I...guess |
| 16:28.55 | Proteus | needing to pay for tuition makes you paranoid |
| 16:29.02 | Proteus | sorry |
| 16:37.04 | SanMehat | Yeah, whatever it is you can ask here. |
| 16:37.34 | Proteus | I have three apps planned to take me from novice andrioid programmer to quite advanced. One of my main interests is music and music composition. My overarching goal is to take mobile devices and enable them many of the functions that only musicians working on a desktop would have and many that could only be done with a mobile device. The first is really just to get me going, I doubt anyone would buy it, though people went nuts over that i |
| 16:37.35 | Proteus | Brue app. Whatever. Basically I just want to build something like a theramin in java, tied in nicely with the andrioid UI. Tilt sensors and accelerometors manipulate the functions of a relatively simple software synthesizer in real time. Give the user the ability to save their composition or send it via 3g/wifi to their computer (I was told the storage abilites of the early phones are ppretty meagre |
| 16:41.42 | zhobbs | whoa, I've never seen a theremin before, that's crazy |
| 16:43.37 | romainguy__ | Proteus: that app should be feasible |
| 16:49.50 | Proteus | My second app is more ambitious. I'm also a zennist and I had the idea of creating a set of minigames whose purpose isn't to stimulate or challenge the user, but to relax. My target market for this mainly commuters at the end of the day trying to wind down and I suppose it might appeal to anyone needing to chill. This app takes the first little synthesizer and adds visuals and input. Mini sound-visual enviroments would include perhaps a z |
| 16:49.50 | Proteus | en rock garden where the placement of the big stones and their spatial relationship sets up the foundation of the sonic environment while raking through the sand - at different speeds, rotations, etc- would add futher layers to the ambient sound scape. Kept interesting via something like markov chains to improvize ineresting flourishes and maybe more (I've read papers on using MC for improvizing complex jazz compositions, so I know it's f |
| 16:49.51 | Proteus | easable). This app would also include other interactive ambient soundscapes. For instance drawing sound with colors and tilts and picking different brushes to add different types of sound to the mix. A tool that played meditation bells with configurable times would be easy to add with the sound engine already there I have more ideas, but you get the picture. |
| 16:50.42 | Cedric2 | Proteus: er... wow :) |
| 16:51.21 | Proteus | The procedural synthesys is quite a bit more complex with this one |
| 16:51.39 | Proteus | sound synthesys, I mean |
| 16:52.00 | Proteus | this is where I start wondering whether the phone could handle it |
| 16:52.47 | romainguy__ | that I have no idea |
| 16:55.18 | Proteus | app2 has simultaneous graphics (possibly animated), multiple sound sources being mixed, and the real-time generation and manipulation of multiple sound sources in real time |
| 16:57.05 | krosaen | proteus: reminds me of electroplankton for the ds, great game! |
| 16:57.10 | Proteus | how is all this sounding so far? |
| 16:57.17 | Proteus | never heard of it. |
| 16:57.26 | krosaen | u should check it out |
| 16:57.31 | Cedric2 | It's sounding very ambitious but fun |
| 16:57.32 | krosaen | would love to see more games like that |
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| 16:58.51 | krosaen | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3v6npP8OZk |
| 16:59.34 | Proteus | well, I'd be prototyping all the sound synthesis algorithms in Max/MSP or PD first, which cuts the amount of time required by an enormous amount |
| 17:01.09 | muthu | http://www.ddj.com/mobile/210300551 |
| 17:01.42 | romainguy_ | krosaen: proteus: reminds me of electroplankton for the ds, great game! << I was about to say the same :)) |
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| 17:19.17 | Proteus | my third app is really ambitious, but I think it's actually revolutionary. I expand on what I've learned, code I've written, from the first two to build a kind of ultra-minimalist digital audio workstation, composition, and the featue that counts: collaborative composition and performance. The phone mic is used as a normal microphone, you can record whatever and then use the touch interface to chop up your samples, whatever. I also add t |
| 17:19.17 | Proteus | he sort of functionality you'd see in max or pd - you can take your samples and run them through vocoders, noise, other distortions and then eventually organize your creations into 'instrument' or 'sample' objects. These objects contain all relevant data and can be shared between other phones or to a server somewhere for storage. This app also includes synthesizers - which can be modifed by the user - and a simple sequencer. The main inte |
| 17:19.18 | Proteus | rface is where you actually work on compositions. The note interface intuitively works with the touch pad by using a melodic thesauraus - you tap a sqeunce in a melody and rings appear around where you tapped showing increasing complexity in outer rings and sesnible transformations selected by direction, each selection is played to get a feel for how it sounds. It would be a pain to compose whole songs on the tiny screen, the focus is on |
| 17:19.23 | Proteus | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:19.28 | Proteus | al is to allow people to compose and perform wherever they are in the world.Sort of a modern drum circle. |
| 17:22.02 | Proteus | this one doesn't absolutely require real-time audio synthesis until the android drum circle thing |
| 17:22.56 | Proteus | Cedric2, romainguy_, thoughts? |
| 17:24.11 | Proteus | is this too crazy? I'm hoping that app2 would give me enough money to maybe hire someone to help, but who knows. |
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| 17:32.50 | Proteus | does anyone have comments? |
| 17:33.07 | muthu | sounds like a big plan |
| 17:34.02 | Proteus | it basically requires hiring at least one or two people to help |
| 17:34.30 | krosaen | sounds cool, sort of like pro-tools or garage band on the go? |
| 17:34.41 | Proteus | sort of |
| 17:35.08 | Proteus | but with the addition of real time collaboration/performance |
| 17:37.08 | krosaen | realtime collaboration would be tough i'm guessing; getting each participant in sync to experience the same rythm as well as what others are playing is a hard problem |
| 17:43.15 | Proteus | if you can get the latency low enough it's not an issue. There are a lot of ways you could do it. First of all, you don't need split second precision if you set interface up so that what people see is a building queue of icons for their sounds getting layered and then once they feel far enough ahead they go 'live', but they're still not receiveing data which is super time critical, just updates to the queue and the current live output, w |
| 17:43.15 | Proteus | hich doesn't need to be in perfect sync |
| 17:44.39 | Proteus | I'm thinking of a very high level interface for the collaborative part of it. |
| 17:46.27 | muthu | if you have a delay, active collaboration might be difficult |
| 17:46.27 | Proteus | remember, they've worked together (maybe) building their sonic library and at least share the same data, so they're not manipulating much low level stuff by the time they go into jam session mode |
| 17:47.59 | Proteus | most electronica musicians, when they're improvising, have a decent head start |
| 17:48.22 | Proteus | but it depends on how you want to go about it |
| 17:48.52 | Proteus | if you can link the android phones through their wifi connections, latency isn't much of an issue |
| 17:49.19 | Proteus | collaboration also doesn't have to be simultaneous |
| 17:50.19 | Proteus | you work on something for a few hours, then shoot what you've got via 3g to your partner on the other side of the planet, he tweaks, deletes, adds things, then shoots it back, etc. |
| 17:51.51 | Proteus | you collect the sounds of cars and cafes and street-corner preachers, he collects the sounds of forest birds |
| 17:52.36 | Proteus | you slice and dice and maybe come up with something interesting. only your studio is with you all the time and the process is much more fluid |
| 17:54.23 | muthu | its a neat idea |
| 17:54.36 | Proteus | on the other side I'd set up a web back end for people to meet up and collaborate and share their work |
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| 17:58.34 | Proteus | one problem would the quality of headphone jacks and microphones |
| 17:59.43 | Proteus | assuming it has a headhpone jack. I'm not sure I've seen an android phone that had one - I hope I'm wrong |
| 18:01.49 | muthu | Proteus: good luck |
| 18:01.59 | Proteus | ha. thanks |
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| 18:21.04 | jasonchen | new app called Photostream in apps-for-android today: http://bit.ly/android-photostream |
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| 19:00.47 | laz | hello |
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| 19:25.06 | herriojr | so, java.beans doesn't seem to be implemented...is there any reason why I wouldn't be able to implement this myself? I want to make sure before I start :) |
| 19:25.26 | SanMehat | you want to add support for java beans? |
| 19:26.22 | herriojr | yes |
| 19:26.25 | SanMehat | i thought beans were one of those 'oh god don't ever use this crap its so 2%@% slow and bloated'.. at least thats what i'd heard.. |
| 19:26.41 | herriojr | I want to implement it because a library I'm using supports it |
| 19:26.52 | SanMehat | supports it or needs it? |
| 19:27.01 | herriojr | needs it I mean |
| 19:27.06 | SanMehat | then use a different library? |
| 19:27.17 | herriojr | do you have an alternative to the smack library? |
| 19:27.30 | SanMehat | don't you try to smack me |
| 19:27.36 | herriojr | with the same license |
| 19:27.39 | herriojr | heh |
| 19:27.39 | SanMehat | grumbles and goes back to his feverish sleep |
| 19:27.45 | SanMehat | <-- sick |
| 19:27.50 | herriojr | that stinks |
| 19:28.25 | zhobbs | herriojr: smack worked in m5 didn't it? |
| 19:34.25 | herriojr | yeah, it did |
| 19:34.43 | herriojr | but the library uses java.beans which isn't supported in 0.9 |
| 19:34.56 | heat | java.beans was in m5? |
| 19:35.08 | herriojr | maybe I grabbed the wrong source? |
| 19:35.36 | SanMehat | i would be very surprised if m5 supported beans.. |
| 19:35.42 | heat | yeah same here |
| 19:35.47 | herriojr | it must have been, because it is dying on PropertyDescriptor descriptor = new PropertyDescriptor(name, objectClass); |
| 19:36.04 | herriojr | and the same library jar worked in m5 |
| 19:36.16 | heat | jumps up and down on top of san's office |
| 19:36.53 | SanMehat | go ahead, i'm lying on the couch |
| 19:36.56 | SanMehat | :P |
| 19:37.08 | SanMehat | your domain does not stretch to the place above my livingroom! |
| 19:37.45 | herriojr | so I guess I should try and clean all bean references out of the smack source code |
| 19:38.28 | heat | hehe |
| 19:38.29 | heat | damn it! |
| 19:38.44 | heat | or use a different IM lib? |
| 19:39.00 | heat | down with the beans.. |
| 19:39.27 | herriojr | I'll just remove it if I can...there really are only about 3 lines with references to it |
| 19:40.05 | herriojr | I just don't know exactly what PropertyDescriptor is :) |
| 19:40.39 | heat | wait |
| 19:41.15 | herriojr | ok |
| 19:41.24 | heat | oh i dont know what it does either |
| 19:41.26 | heat | heh |
| 19:43.37 | fadden | "A PropertyDescriptor describes one property that a Java Bean exports via a pair of accessor methods." |
| 19:43.48 | fadden | Clear as mud. |
| 19:44.03 | heat | i dont like beans.. they make me fart :( |
| 19:44.13 | Cedric2 | fadden: it's the old school way of providing extra information beyond reflection |
| 19:44.20 | Cedric2 | we would do that with annotations or XML in the 21st century |
| 19:44.38 | Cedric2 | but Graham wrote this spec almost 10 years ago now |
| 19:45.26 | heat | time flies :( |
| 19:45.35 | SanMehat | heat: oh *thats* why a lot of java programmers say 'java beans smells' :) |
| 19:46.10 | Cedric2 | Like we say in French, "It's beginning to smell of pine" (a reference to the wood used to make coffins) |
| 19:46.18 | heat | ;) |
| 19:50.24 | SanMehat | haha |
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| 19:54.04 | mohbana | hi, will the first android phone support wifi like the nookia n95? |
| 19:54.57 | f00f- | no, but it will support wifi |
| 19:55.06 | f00f- | not wifi *like* the n95 |
| 19:55.41 | f00f- | but you seem like a consumer? |
| 19:56.43 | mohbana | yeh i'm just asking, if i wasn't clear; i'm talking about connecting to my router |
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| 19:57.16 | mohbana | f00f-: |
| 19:57.33 | f00f- | yeah then it should work, but no details yet |
| 19:57.49 | f00f- | first device wont be that technically great i think |
| 19:57.58 | f00f- | lots of limitations due to android api's not stabilizing |
| 19:58.33 | zhobbs | romainguy_: Photostream is cool, thanks |
| 19:59.40 | romainguy_ | zhobbs: glad you like it |
| 19:59.49 | mohbana | btw how do i turn on smooth scrolling on chrome? |
| 19:59.52 | zhobbs | yeah, will study it a bit |
| 20:01.04 | mohbana | and what's bigger, the iphone or the htc? |
| 20:03.24 | SanMehat | hey wheres jasta? its been somewhat quiet in here |
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| 20:09.11 | f00f- | so sanmehat, are you an advocate? what so you work on? |
| 20:09.30 | SanMehat | f00f-: I work on the kernel / system bits |
| 20:09.52 | Dougie187 | SanMehat: Jasta went to ireland today. or is going. |
| 20:09.55 | f00f- | awesome, i hope we get a good firewall in there |
| 20:10.07 | SanMehat | Dougie187: :) |
| 20:11.04 | Dougie187 | I would have expected him to turn off IRC, but i guess he might want to see how much people talk about him? |
| 20:11.08 | Dougie187 | or he hasn't left yet. |
| 20:11.12 | SanMehat | probably |
| 20:11.14 | heat | jasta smells |
| 20:11.26 | SanMehat | maybe he uses java beans |
| 20:11.30 | heat | lol |
| 20:11.41 | Dougie187 | I doubt it. |
| 20:11.46 | zhobbs | he'll probably be ssh'ing into his irc from irland |
| 20:12.15 | Dougie187 | I would think his lady friend would get irritated by that. |
| 20:12.22 | Dougie187 | plus i think he intends on being drunk most of the time. |
| 20:16.17 | heat | herriojr: try adding <uses-library |
| 20:16.19 | heat | android:name="android.awt" /> |
| 20:16.24 | heat | to your manifest |
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| 20:24.54 | mohbana | anyone get my questions? |
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| 20:54.52 | Digit4l | hello ? |
| 20:55.18 | SanMehat | hi |
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| 20:55.41 | Digit4l | Im comparing phones |
| 20:55.51 | Digit4l | the blackberry does have wireless ? |
| 20:56.08 | AttractiveApe | I haven't seen a blackberry with wifi, no |
| 20:56.40 | Digit4l | because it says everywhere wireless access to telco companies |
| 20:56.50 | AttractiveApe | They access the phone's wireless network |
| 20:56.56 | AttractiveApe | for internet, which is more expensive. |
| 20:56.56 | Digit4l | but I think that doesn't really mean access to my home network |
| 20:56.57 | Digit4l | xD |
| 20:57.37 | Digit4l | ok thanks |
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| 21:23.44 | zhobbs | romainguy_: can you create a shortcut on home from inside an application? |
| 21:23.56 | romainguy_ | yes |
| 21:24.14 | romainguy_ | but the preferred way is to do it the way Photostream does |
| 21:24.29 | zhobbs | right, will have that option also |
| 21:24.55 | romainguy_ | installing a shortcut directly from an application has two drawbacks: |
| 21:24.59 | romainguy_ | 1. it requires another permission |
| 21:25.11 | romainguy_ | 2. the shortcut will be placed in the first available slot on Home |
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| 21:26.25 | zhobbs | yeah...was just thinking that if you're watching a video or something would be cool to be able to add shortcut to that video from the menu |
| 21:26.51 | romainguy_ | you can dl that |
| 21:26.53 | romainguy_ | do that |
| 21:26.59 | romainguy_ | it's what Gears does in the Browser |
| 21:27.23 | zhobbs | ok |
| 21:27.45 | romainguy_ | so you need the permission com.android.launcher.permission.INSTALL_SHORTCUT |
| 21:28.25 | romainguy_ | the Intent to send Home must have the action com.android.launcher.action.INSTALL_SHORTCUT |
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| 21:28.38 | romainguy_ | and contain at least the following two extras: |
| 21:28.51 | romainguy_ | Intent.EXTRA_SHORTCUT_INTENT: an Intent to start when the shortcut is launched |
| 21:29.01 | romainguy_ | Intent.EXTRA_SHORTCUT_NAME: the name of the shortcut |
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| 21:29.18 | romainguy_ | ah and a third one |
| 21:29.25 | romainguy_ | Intent.EXTRA_SHORTCUT_ICON |
| 21:29.45 | romainguy_ | or Intent.EXTRA_SHORTCUT_ICON_RESOURCE |
| 21:29.48 | romainguy_ | the first one is a Bitmap |
| 21:30.06 | romainguy_ | the second one is a Intent.ShortcutIconResource |
| 21:30.12 | zhobbs | are resource id's unique to the whole system? |
| 21:30.23 | romainguy_ | yes |
| 21:30.29 | romainguy_ | but it will be converted to a resource name |
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| 21:30.39 | zhobbs | ok |
| 21:30.40 | romainguy_ | for instance: com.myapp.foo:drawable/my_icon |
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| 21:30.50 | romainguy_ | that means you should not change the name of the resource :)) |
| 21:30.55 | plusminus_ | how are sendDataMessage's received ? |
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| 21:31.24 | zhobbs | romainguy_: thanks for the help |
| 21:31.32 | romainguy_ | anytime |
| 21:31.36 | plusminus_ | damn, not that easy to use chrome and firefox at once ^^ |
| 21:32.24 | plusminus_ | romainguy_ you know how DataMessages (SMS) ar received? |
| 21:32.33 | romainguy_ | I have no idea |
| 21:32.40 | plusminus_ | k, thx |
| 21:33.00 | plusminus_ | so packing my data to a String should work too... |
| 21:33.29 | f00f- | why not use the network +/- |
| 21:33.35 | f00f- | eg. a data connection |
| 21:33.43 | f00f- | err, i mean, the web |
| 21:38.13 | plusminus_ | foof- I'm writing an SMS-Compressor |
| 21:38.17 | plusminus_ | f00f-: |
| 21:42.44 | mohbana | btw how do i turn on smooth scrolling on chrome? and what's bigger, the iphone or the htc? |
| 21:43.05 | zhobbs | mohbana: chrome isn't on android? |
| 21:44.00 | zhobbs | mohbana: androidguys.com has a lot of speculative info on the htc phone |
| 21:45.26 | plusminus_ | androidguys has a lot of 'sources' :-D |
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| 21:45.46 | zhobbs | they've generated a lot of traffic I bet though |
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| 21:48.06 | plusminus_ | probably |
| 21:50.35 | tomgibara | romainguy_: I want to rotate an ImageView using a RotateAnimation from its center; by default it rotates from the top-left corner of the view. What's the best way of doing that? |
| 21:51.29 | romainguy_ | from XML or code? |
| 21:51.38 | zhobbs | tomgibara: android:pivotX="50%" android:pivotY="50%" |
| 21:51.41 | tomgibara | I'm not fussy |
| 21:51.53 | romainguy_ | form XML, what zhobbs said |
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| 21:52.05 | romainguy_ | from code, use public RotateAnimation(float fromDegrees, float toDegrees, int pivotXType, float pivotXValue, |
| 21:52.05 | romainguy_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:52.12 | romainguy_ | with RELATIVE_TO_SELF for the types |
| 21:52.38 | tomgibara | thanks both of you - I was being dumb and just scanning the class for setters |
| 21:59.11 | tomgibara | romainguy_: I have another question, but it might be a bit premature because I haven't investigated closely... |
| 21:59.20 | tomgibara | I'm putting together a simple little game which uses a surface that is continuously updated in a worker thread. The FPS counter shows a healthy 15 fps, but the screen updates are clearly not as frequent. |
| 21:59.36 | romainguy_ | is this your fps counter? |
| 21:59.39 | tomgibara | yes |
| 21:59.45 | tomgibara | So my question is: Does the emulator throttle actual updates to the screen? |
| 22:00.01 | romainguy_ | I doubt it |
| 22:00.09 | romainguy_ | you can check the real number of updates easily |
| 22:00.25 | romainguy_ | run this: |
| 22:00.27 | romainguy_ | adb shell service call SurfaceFlinger 1013 ; sleep 10 ; adb shell service call SurfaceFlinger 1013 |
| 22:00.32 | romainguy_ | it will give you two hex numbers |
| 22:00.38 | romainguy_ | subtract them and divide the result by 10 |
| 22:00.46 | romainguy_ | that will be the number of fps as counted by SurfaceFlinger |
| 22:00.52 | romainguy_ | it doesn't get more real than that :)) |
| 22:01.07 | tomgibara | great, I'll try that out |
| 22:06.39 | tomgibara | well that cames to 15 |
| 22:06.41 | tomgibara | *came |
| 22:08.47 | romainguy_ | :) |
| 22:08.51 | romainguy_ | so your eyes are lying :) |
| 22:09.01 | romainguy_ | 15 is not much |
| 22:09.16 | tomgibara | must be :) perhaps my brain's running too fast |
| 22:09.19 | fadden | Or the timing is such that one frame has two updates, and the next has 0 updates. |
| 22:09.38 | romainguy_ | fadden: but SurfaceFlinger indicates 15 fps as well |
| 22:09.49 | tomgibara | romainguy_: When does SurfaceFlinger fling? When you do an unlockCanvasAndPost ? or continuously? |
| 22:10.12 | romainguy_ | when we do the unlockCanvasetc. |
| 22:10.25 | romainguy_ | and it waits on the vsync |
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| 22:13.44 | tomgibara | In all seriousness, I'm definitely not seeing 15ps on the screen. I can see a simple and slow linear animation clearly judder - I'd estimate 5fps max. I'm still on WinXP for now - I'm wondering if there's something happening between the emulator and the desktop. |
| 22:14.22 | plusminus_ | my SMSCompressor gives already 260 instead of 160 chars :) |
| 22:14.26 | tomgibara | I'm going to ignore it for now and polish up my code, I'll take a closer look when I've looked for any bugs. |
| 22:14.31 | romainguy_ | plusminus_: what does it do? |
| 22:14.52 | plusminus_ | for now just huffman encoding |
| 22:15.29 | plusminus_ | maybe some word replacement later, if that does not lead to accidential unreadability |
| 22:15.31 | tomgibara | romainguy_: Thanks for the SurfaceFlinger tip. |
| 22:15.46 | fadden | plusminus_: static or adaptive? |
| 22:15.57 | zhobbs | plusminus_: what is an smscompressor used for? |
| 22:17.22 | tomgibara | plusmins_: You can't stop the compressed SMS from appearing in their compressed state within the messages application though, or can you? |
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| 22:19.52 | plusminus_ | fadden: static because all clients need exactly the same 'trees' |
| 22:20.05 | plusminus_ | tomgibara: No I can't, system does not allow that |
| 22:20.23 | plusminus_ | the compressed message probably appear as coplete nonsense in the systemapp |
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| 22:20.59 | fadden | You're assuming English then? |
| 22:21.44 | plusminus_ | I have not tested 'special-char'-languages for now, but those are also just characters. |
| 22:21.57 | plusminus_ | which would receive their own dictionary then |
| 22:22.40 | tomgibara | plusminus: You could have a fixed set of 'trees', one for each language, and then prepend a bit sequence indicating the tree used |
| 22:23.01 | plusminus_ | tomgibara: exactly what I'm doing :) |
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| 22:23.23 | plusminus_ | I could say great mind think alike but I won't ;) |
| 22:23.28 | fadden | Any transformation that makes some sequences smaller will make others larger. Since you're not dealing with arbitrary inputs, though, it shouldn't be an issue. |
| 22:23.43 | fadden | You should be able to run the input text through every possible dictionary and send it in the one that works the best. |
| 22:23.52 | tomgibara | That's what I would propose too |
| 22:24.17 | plusminus_ | fadden: yep, its a bit cpu-intense but works smooth, even in the emulator |
| 22:24.24 | tomgibara | The really interesting question is this: Given a corpus, can you produce a partitioning that provides an optimal set of trees (in the obvious sense) |
| 22:24.40 | fadden | Another idea would be to use splay-tree compression, which adapts quickly; may work well given the short max length of SMS. |
| 22:24.59 | plusminus_ | http://www.picpaste.de/smstretcher.png |
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| 22:25.21 | plusminus_ | http://www.picpaste.de/thumbs/smstretcher.1220567104.png |
| 22:26.09 | plusminus_ | sorry for explicit language ;) |
| 22:26.25 | fadden | The neat trick would be to display the number of bytes remaining, and continuously update it as the person types characters in. |
| 22:27.06 | plusminus_ | the "253/257" updates every new character (as I said cpu-intensive, but smooth) |
| 22:27.18 | plusminus_ | its like "used/total" |
| 22:27.19 | tomgibara | Combining best compression table and updates takes even more processing |
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| 22:27.48 | fadden | Shouldn't be an issue for a typical human typist. |
| 22:28.04 | tomgibara | But the phone battery? |
| 22:28.13 | mohbana | what's bigger, the iphone or the htc? |
| 22:28.43 | fadden | Do you generate the output or just compute the length? I would think most of the expense in a Java static Huffman implementation is in the bit-shuffling. |
| 22:28.52 | fadden | All you need is a 256-entry table with the bit lengths, and just sum them up. |
| 22:29.06 | meoblast001 | is google chrome going to be linux compatible? |
| 22:29.44 | plusminus_ | I am computing the 'result' (=encoding) on every new character |
| 22:31.12 | tomgibara | Perhaps compute the result at each new character, and evaluate "best tree" in the background when the user pauses their typing. |
| 22:31.53 | plusminus_ | yeah, could be a possibility. |
| 22:32.11 | fadden | 200 chars should be 200 int array lookups (and 199 additions). You could further optimize by just adding the new char width alone; works for all keys except "delete". |
| 22:32.30 | fadden | Only compute the full encoded form at the end. |
| 22:33.34 | tomgibara | fadden: Tricky from a UI perspective, since on calculating the result, you many need to inform the user they have typed too much - unpleasant. |
| 22:33.49 | tomgibara | scrub that comment |
| 22:33.56 | fadden | :-) |
| 22:34.08 | tomgibara | I forgot it's a static encoding |
| 22:34.43 | fadden | Static Huffman encoding is actually a lot faster than static Huffman decoding. Let me know if you need 65816 assembly code for these. :-) |
| 22:35.00 | plusminus_ | :D probably not |
| 22:35.49 | tomgibara | I have an efficient java implementation too if you want one :) |
| 22:36.35 | plusminus_ | tomgibara: thanks I'l come back if mine turns out to be too slow |
| 22:41.28 | herriojr | trying to get smack to work is a pain in the ass |
| 22:41.38 | herriojr | it looks like it might take a bit longer than I thought |
| 22:47.57 | fadden | herriojr: did you find android.awt.jar? |
| 22:48.49 | herriojr | no, what's in it? |
| 22:49.27 | fadden | PropertyDescriptor, among other things |
| 22:49.31 | fadden | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:49.46 | herriojr | oh, android.awt is an outside library |
| 22:50.27 | herriojr | when adding a uses-library, what should the parent node be? |
| 22:50.35 | herriojr | application or the manifest? |
| 22:51.31 | fadden | Looks like it's under "application" in the sample code. |
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| 22:53.39 | herriojr | omg that works |
| 22:54.18 | herriojr | I wish they would document such things |
| 22:54.19 | herriojr | ... |
| 23:01.19 | herriojr | also - why would it be in the java.awt library and not java.beans? |
| 23:01.37 | herriojr | sorry, I'm not usually a java programmer, so it may be a dumb question |
| 23:09.38 | *** join/#android umdk1d3 (n=umdk1d3@adsl-dynamic-64-79-45-41.bridgeband.net) |
| 23:18.07 | plusminus_ | is Sending SMS between emulator proven to work ? |
| 23:19.40 | catzilla | that would be awesome |
| 23:20.35 | plusminus_ | xD it works... |
| 23:20.45 | *** join/#android cbeust (n=cbeust@69.36.227.135) |
| 23:20.56 | catzilla | your emulator has a phone number? |
| 23:21.00 | plusminus_ | guess what: "mEtTargetPhoneNumber.toString();" is not correct xD |
| 23:21.11 | plusminus_ | use the PORT |
| 23:21.15 | plusminus_ | (like 5556) |
| 23:33.36 | *** join/#android o3u (n=slim@modemcable050.151-58-74.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 23:36.27 | *** join/#android romainguy__ (n=gfx@adsl-75-52-252-122.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
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| 23:43.38 | mohbana | what's bigger, the iphone or the htc? |
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| 23:45.03 | catzilla | we'll know in november i guess |
| 23:46.00 | *** join/#android chouman82 (n=chouman8@65.173.101.2) |
| 23:46.54 | chouman82 | got a quick question regarding the spinner in 0.9 |
| 23:47.19 | chouman82 | did they take out the onItemSelectedListener? |
| 23:47.46 | chouman82 | is there anyway I can take actions based on the selected item in spinner? |
| 23:49.15 | romainguy_ | given how it works now, it doesn't really make sense |
| 23:49.32 | chouman82 | u mean the spinner? |
| 23:49.34 | romainguy_ | yes |
| 23:49.39 | chouman82 | wat do u mean |
| 23:54.08 | chouman82 | can you elaborate a little more, not quite understand what you mean |
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| 23:56.54 | heat | herriojr: its not documented to the reason that its not suported, and not encouraged |
| 23:59.05 | *** join/#android yxz97 (n=yxz97@201.194.46.86) |
| 23:59.28 | yxz97 | Hello I'm following the book, Android Essentials, however is out of date! |
| 23:59.47 | yxz97 | hello ? is there anybody ? |
