| 00:02.18 | yakischloba | anyone have a successful method of finding a project partner? |
| 00:02.42 | gambler | 1.0 is much more aggressive at killing off services |
| 00:02.54 | yakischloba | ah fuck i forgot i have to get the new sdk |
| 00:04.18 | unix_infidel | yakischloba: heh, yea, svn would be really nice :-P |
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| 00:05.31 | gambler | I register a HandShakeCompletedEventListener that works ok in java SE...but fails silently on android...why |
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| 00:15.19 | yakischloba | because you didn't buy the diamond studded elliptical. |
| 00:15.53 | gambler | the world is against me |
| 00:16.03 | gambler | that gets fixed tommorow |
| 00:16.04 | yakischloba | yeah, today anyway it seems lol |
| 00:18.22 | yakischloba | so what do I have to do to upgrade again? just load the new eclipse plugin and configure the new sdk dir in it? |
| 00:18.43 | gambler | yep |
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| 00:19.56 | yakischloba | k |
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| 00:25.23 | yakischloba | rad |
| 00:25.27 | yakischloba | no eclipse won't start back up |
| 00:25.34 | yakischloba | s/no/now |
| 00:25.52 | yakischloba | i knew i shouldnt have trusted a gambler |
| 00:26.01 | yakischloba | hh there we go |
| 00:26.16 | gambler | wise words |
| 00:27.04 | gambler | i hope your not writing any services because they all seem to get cleanup 2 seconds later after they get started now |
| 00:27.11 | yakischloba | no I'm not ;) |
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| 00:27.24 | f00f- | gambler, for real? |
| 00:27.27 | f00f- | what does your service do |
| 00:28.16 | gambler | f00f-, listens on a socket waiting for a little message to come in that says "bluetooth RFCOMM has been implemented" |
| 00:28.53 | f00f- | ltns |
| 00:29.10 | f00f- | there is rfcomm support? |
| 00:29.22 | f00f- | thought they removed it |
| 00:29.59 | gambler | yah i mean my service wont do anything useful until that is implemented |
| 00:33.31 | gambler | hmm scratch that, maybe its not getting cleaned up really fast. |
| 00:33.40 | gambler | its hard to tell at the moment |
| 00:34.32 | f00f- | your judgement is cloudy |
| 00:34.44 | jasta | yawn |
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| 00:36.30 | jasta | so, i have a question... |
| 00:37.18 | jasta | how does Java handle API changes? say, android 1.5 came out and changed the MediaPlayer class, how would you write an app which supports both the 1.0 api and that new one? |
| 00:37.47 | jasta | in C of course its easy, you just #ifdef on some helpful condition the API creator gives you. |
| 00:38.20 | jasta | would you just use reflection to test for the presence of methods you are interested in? |
| 00:38.37 | f00f- | annotate the old one with @Deprecated and never remove it |
| 00:38.41 | f00f- | that's how sun does it ;) |
| 00:38.48 | gambler | f00f-, i dont disagree but my code is behaving more differently than i expected |
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| 00:39.52 | f00f- | probably reflection would be better jasta, but i don't think excessive use of reflection is good since it can be slow |
| 00:39.59 | dcordes_ | lurks |
| 00:40.27 | jasta | f00f-: well what if it's just straight additions of functionality |
| 00:40.56 | f00f- | there is not android version constant? |
| 00:41.42 | jasta | but how would that help you conditionalize using new APIs? you can't conditionalize the code you feed to the compiler like you can with C |
| 00:41.47 | yakischloba | hey I don't think I've asked about this recently: is there anything like WinMo's "owner details" in android yet? |
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| 00:45.20 | jasta | lol, for real |
| 00:45.27 | jasta | i just booted android and the home screen crashed |
| 00:45.30 | jasta | the whole thing just reset itself |
| 00:45.34 | yakischloba | nice |
| 00:45.37 | yakischloba | 1.0! :) |
| 00:46.06 | jasta | E/System ( 200): Failure starting core service |
| 00:46.06 | jasta | E/System ( 200): java.lang.SecurityException |
| 00:46.07 | jasta | hmm |
| 00:46.08 | erus` | 10 hours late |
| 00:46.11 | yakischloba | I haven't tried booting 1.0 yet. |
| 00:46.14 | _avatar | ouch. |
| 00:46.32 | xavd_ | 1.0 only means compatible with 1.0 API |
| 00:46.34 | f00f- | -wipe-data |
| 00:46.38 | _avatar | maybe try a factory data reset |
| 00:46.45 | jasta | i did -wipe-data |
| 00:46.51 | f00f- | rm -rf ~/.android |
| 00:46.52 | yakischloba | xavd_: teasing ;) |
| 00:46.56 | f00f- | i never trusted -wipe-data in the early days |
| 00:47.12 | xavd_ | the emulator does not include everything the device does, which has some side effects :( |
| 00:47.15 | jasta | f00f-: what does rm -rf do that -wipe-data doesn't except clear my storage card? |
| 00:47.34 | jasta | E/AndroidRuntime( 147): java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to start activity ComponentInfo{com.android.contacts/com.android.contacts.DialtactsActivity}: java.lang.RuntimeException: Package manager has died |
| 00:47.38 | jasta | lol |
| 00:47.47 | yakischloba | har |
| 00:47.50 | xavd_ | btw there's no point in doing wipe-data the first time as we are saving the user data in a different folder this time |
| 00:47.52 | jasta | I/ServiceManager( 18): service 'power' died |
| 00:48.00 | jasta | E/AndroidRuntime( 56): *** EXCEPTION IN SYSTEM PROCESS. System will crash. |
| 00:48.01 | xavd_ | jasta: ouch, what did you try to do? |
| 00:48.02 | jasta | lol |
| 00:48.05 | jasta | xavd_: boot it. |
| 00:48.15 | xavd_ | hmm wow |
| 00:48.23 | _avatar | impressive crash |
| 00:48.27 | jasta | it happily reset itself and now works, but shit...what the hell happened there? some weird corner case? |
| 00:48.27 | xavd_ | indeed |
| 00:48.45 | xavd_ | I don't know. do you have a full log output? |
| 00:48.55 | jasta | sure do |
| 00:49.01 | gambler | I think the scheduler is tightened its belt up a little |
| 00:49.45 | xavd_ | can you give it to me through pastebin or similar? |
| 00:50.24 | jasta | i'll create an issue |
| 00:50.29 | xavd_ | thanks |
| 00:50.37 | jasta | the root of it all seems to be: |
| 00:50.40 | jasta | 09-23 17:44:42.835 E/System ( 56): Failure starting core service |
| 00:50.40 | jasta | 09-23 17:44:42.835 E/System ( 56): java.lang.SecurityException |
| 00:50.44 | jasta | after that it all goes to hell ;) |
| 00:52.09 | xavd_ | interestingly I have the same lines in my log, but that does not crash my emulator |
| 00:53.37 | jasta | i also get a failure starting statusbarservice |
| 00:53.39 | jasta | NPE |
| 00:53.48 | jasta | but the real calamity is some lines later: |
| 00:53.50 | xavd_ | me too, not sure what that's about :\ |
| 00:54.01 | jasta | 09-23 17:45:01.837 E/AndroidRuntime( 56): Uncaught handler: thread Thread-36 exiting due to uncaught exception |
| 00:54.04 | jasta | 09-23 17:45:01.837 E/AndroidRuntime( 56): *** EXCEPTION IN SYSTEM PROCESS. System will crash. |
| 00:54.07 | jasta | 09-23 17:45:01.837 E/AndroidRuntime( 56): java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Service not registered: android.accounts.AccountMonitor@434bf230 |
| 00:54.14 | jasta | i just posted issue 901 |
| 00:54.19 | jasta | the adb bugreport output is there |
| 00:54.22 | xavd_ | thanks |
| 00:54.36 | jasta | but do realize it restarted itself and did startup successfully. so both a crash and successful startup are in the log |
| 00:54.46 | xavd_ | ok |
| 00:56.51 | gambler | How do I go about debugging a HandShakeCompletedEventListener that works fine in java SE but not android... |
| 00:57.34 | gambler | It wont call my handshakeCompleted(HandshakeCompletedEvent event) callback |
| 00:57.58 | gambler | or is this probably a bug? |
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| 01:17.12 | yakischloba | has anyone had to make decisions about whether to include the ability for non-US folks to use their app or not? I'm using a bunch of 'measurement' data (weight, length, volume) and it seems like it would be a major pain in the ass to make it work right for both US and metric systems |
| 01:18.20 | wastrel | sigh the us is so backwards |
| 01:19.00 | yakischloba | yeah. I would figure that the major user base will be the US anyways...hmm |
| 01:19.28 | gambler | yakischloba, introduce a layer of abstraction. it wont be much work |
| 01:20.06 | yakischloba | I've been trying to think of a clean way to do it |
| 01:20.56 | yakischloba | obviously not thinking hard enough |
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| 01:22.26 | gambler | what would a typical measurement be for? |
| 01:23.18 | yakischloba | now that I think about it, I don't know if I should even be considering support outside the US |
| 01:23.19 | yakischloba | well |
| 01:23.24 | yakischloba | food items |
| 01:23.29 | yakischloba | so serving size and shit |
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| 01:24.45 | yakischloba | forget it ;) |
| 01:24.46 | tcameron | anyone know if the android phone from t-mobile will have a cisco vpn client? |
| 01:25.19 | yakischloba | tcameron: something tells me that hasn't been developed yet. |
| 01:25.39 | yakischloba | (could be completely wrong) |
| 01:25.51 | tcameron | anyone heard of cisco working on/with android community for that functionality? |
| 01:25.55 | f00f- | tcameron: not in your wildest dreams |
| 01:26.17 | tcameron | I'm *so* ready to dump my Palm and go with an android phone, but I need that capability |
| 01:26.27 | tcameron | wonders if vpnc will work on android...? |
| 01:26.31 | yakischloba | write it |
| 01:26.44 | tcameron | heh - would that I were capable of doing so... |
| 01:26.51 | f00f- | i'm pretty sure there is a TAP/TUN device |
| 01:26.59 | f00f- | so openvpn or any other will work |
| 01:27.16 | f00f- | just need to get the native binary on there |
| 01:31.40 | snadge | you could probably use openswan |
| 01:32.26 | snadge | i use that to make an ipsec tunnel vpn connection |
| 01:32.48 | snadge | and i'll need that to work with android too ;) |
| 01:39.16 | tcameron | interesting - cisco and google: http://www.networkworld.com/community/?q=node/24941 |
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| 01:45.21 | plusminus_ | hm, how to get distance between two GeoPoints in sdk 1.0 ? MapPoint.distanceSquared(MapPoint) is gone :( |
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| 02:13.36 | wastrel | hrm amazon mp3s what about amazon ebooks |
| 02:13.38 | wastrel | i'd go for that |
| 02:13.44 | wastrel | like the kindle |
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| 02:14.26 | _avatar | android's screen size is probably not optimal for reading novels ;) |
| 02:14.38 | _avatar | er, sorry, the G1 |
| 02:14.41 | _avatar | long day |
| 02:14.46 | wastrel | i've been reading novels on palm since 1998 |
| 02:15.07 | wastrel | people read novels on their blackberry |
| 02:15.18 | wastrel | it's perfect for prose |
| 02:15.27 | wastrel | i want an epaper device for technical docs and pdf |
| 02:15.33 | wastrel | but it's just fine for prose |
| 02:16.12 | _avatar | amazon may also see it as a waste of time to reinvent the wheel / develop a product that directly competes with another of its products. ;) |
| 02:16.16 | wastrel | problem with the ebook industry is the drm it's bad |
| 02:16.28 | wastrel | drm free pls ebook ppl |
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| 02:17.40 | Elijah | Android. The iPhone killer! |
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| 02:18.51 | wastrel | hi hi |
| 02:20.51 | Elijah | wastrel: hi |
| 02:23.12 | wastrel | anyway _avatar selling ebooks is amazon's business not selling kindles |
| 02:23.23 | wastrel | more platforms more sales. |
| 02:23.27 | wastrel | the drm is a problem tho |
| 02:26.25 | _avatar | wastrel: yes and no, in response to "selling ebooks is amazon's business not selling kindles |
| 02:26.28 | _avatar | " |
| 02:26.50 | _avatar | and yes, DRM is also a big problem |
| 02:26.57 | Elijah | isn't Amazons main business "selling anything" |
| 02:27.59 | wastrel | drm is bad |
| 02:28.09 | wastrel | repeal dmca and we can rip out drm with impunity :p |
| 02:28.28 | _avatar | drm free music is a good first step :) |
| 02:31.23 | umdk1d3 | jasta: that error was interesting |
| 02:31.29 | umdk1d3 | Unable to start activity ComponentInfo{com.android.contacts/com.android.contacts.DialtactsActivity}: |
| 02:31.43 | umdk1d3 | notice how it seems to double-up the classpath? |
| 02:31.50 | umdk1d3 | i saw the same thing happening with my apps intermittently |
| 02:32.19 | ralfz | umdk1d3, the usual syntax namespace/.class is actually a shortcut. This is the "full" string. |
| 02:32.59 | ralfz | when you write "com.blah/.MyClass" it is actually interpreted as "com.blah/com.blah.MyClass" |
| 02:33.17 | umdk1d3 | oh okay cool |
| 02:33.37 | umdk1d3 | so its not any classpath issues causing that error |
| 02:34.21 | ralfz | it just means the activity name is unknown. maybe a typo? |
| 02:34.40 | ralfz | what's "Dialtacts" anyway? |
| 02:34.42 | umdk1d3 | ralfz: but in their contacts app? o.o |
| 02:34.56 | ralfz | oh I though it was code of yours... sorry missed the beginning |
| 02:34.58 | umdk1d3 | dialer/contacts |
| 02:35.08 | umdk1d3 | and i also was seeing the same error in my own apps |
| 02:35.12 | umdk1d3 | *in 1.0 |
| 02:35.19 | ralfz | is that the emulator? maybe it lacks some activity... |
| 02:35.37 | umdk1d3 | rebuilding the eclipse project seemed to always fix it for me |
| 02:35.43 | umdk1d3 | but it would still randomly come back |
| 02:35.43 | ralfz | huh? |
| 02:35.48 | umdk1d3 | even without touching the manifest |
| 02:36.00 | ralfz | maybe it's unrelated? how do you reproduce it? |
| 02:36.02 | umdk1d3 | it /might/ have been old .class files somehow |
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| 02:47.50 | jasta | hmm, cute |
| 02:48.04 | jasta | error on lin1 of all my aidl files now says "bad type" |
| 02:48.21 | jasta | line 1* |
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| 02:50.27 | jasta | hmm, what the hell |
| 02:50.30 | jasta | i really cant figure this out |
| 02:52.45 | plusminus_ | *argh* Mock-Location-Proving changed once again |
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| 02:55.26 | jasta | ugh |
| 02:55.31 | jasta | why does android insist on being so broken |
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| 03:05.35 | jasta | this fix for allowing cusotm parcelables in Eclipse is so fucking hackish |
| 03:05.36 | jasta | ugh |
| 03:05.42 | jasta | i have no idea how they expect me to make this work |
| 03:07.27 | Elijah | Are you guys happy that Android has officially launched? |
| 03:07.37 | Elijah | I am but I am not a developer |
| 03:07.38 | jasta | it hasn't officially launched :) |
| 03:07.58 | jasta | not in my book anyway. one big deliverable is still missing ;) |
| 03:08.25 | Elijah | Are you excited to get an actual phone in your hands? |
| 03:08.52 | Elijah | I am but don't yet know if I will jump ship from Sprint to Tmobile, especially since Sprint is not far behind! |
| 03:08.52 | jasta | yes and no |
| 03:09.23 | jasta | sort of a mixed blessing being tied to the worst carrier in the US if you ask me |
| 03:09.40 | jasta | but from a dev perspective, yes i'd like to have a device very badly :) |
| 03:09.46 | jasta | i might even carry two devices for a short while |
| 03:10.19 | summatusmentis | Elijah: I'm not jumping ship, but I'm definitely getting one when it comes to Sprint |
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| 03:20.49 | chuck | Just wondering, what's so "open" about Google Android if no one even has the operating system? |
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| 03:21.11 | jasta | chuck: please don't troll here. |
| 03:21.39 | chuck | jasta: I'm sorry, I'm really not trying to troll, I'm just wondering what Google means by "open" |
| 03:22.15 | gambler | chuck, they are going to open source it by the end of the year |
| 03:22.16 | jasta | Google means a lot of things by it, principally that Android will be open source. |
| 03:22.50 | chuck | gambler: Oh, awesome |
| 03:22.52 | jasta | But it also means that they intend to foster open communication with the larger dev community, to allow unfiltered access to the stack, etc. |
| 03:23.13 | jasta | And also to engineer a stack in the first place which attempts to avoid immutable components. |
| 03:24.10 | chuck | is really hoping that someone gets Android running on the iPhone, or AT&T comes out with an Android phone, which doesn't seem likely, as they're not in the open handset alliance |
| 03:24.28 | jasta | well, the former is just insane. |
| 03:24.40 | jasta | the latter isn't gonna happen for quite some time, if it happens at all |
| 03:25.09 | chuck | well, people have gotten a linux bootloader running on the phone |
| 03:25.20 | jasta | chuck: i know what people have done, i have followed that project. |
| 03:25.30 | jasta | and they are a long, long ways away from loading something like Android. |
| 03:25.45 | jasta | so long in fact, that i'm certain the iphone will be old news by the time they ever make it work :) |
| 03:26.00 | chuck | do you think there are going to be unlocked android devices anytime soon? |
| 03:26.15 | muthu_ | yeah will happen |
| 03:26.33 | muthu_ | yo |
| 03:26.39 | muthu_ | feedback on 1.0 |
| 03:26.41 | muthu_ | ? |
| 03:26.42 | jasta | chuck: i really don't know, but judging from the communities tenacity so far i would imagine that there will be lots of people trying at least. |
| 03:26.48 | jasta | muthu_: it's hardly different from 0.9r1. |
| 03:26.53 | muthu_ | hmm |
| 03:27.06 | muthu_ | not surprising |
| 03:27.10 | jasta | they allegedly fixed my bug about custom parcelables in the Eclipse plugin tho, but i swear they have lied. |
| 03:27.16 | jasta | i can't make their fix work at all |
| 03:27.17 | muthu_ | hehe |
| 03:27.24 | jasta | it's tossing up all these insane errors i can't understand |
| 03:27.42 | muthu_ | jasta, can you pass a cursor around in Intent extras? |
| 03:28.12 | muthu_ | have a cursor open in the previous activity, want to reuse that in next activity |
| 03:28.15 | jasta | you can only pass parcelable objects in an intents extra. |
| 03:28.27 | muthu_ | any ideas? |
| 03:28.53 | jasta | you can't. you can try serializing all the inforamtion it contains though that will not be any better than just requerying. |
| 03:29.10 | muthu_ | hmm.. then prolly requery is best |
| 03:29.56 | jasta | you could also make it static, but then your application suffers from concrete dependance on itself (and cannot be replaced by other intent filters) |
| 03:30.03 | muthu_ | hate to use a viewflipper, becoz then kiss goes for a toss |
| 03:30.18 | muthu_ | hate statics |
| 03:30.32 | muthu_ | hate globals |
| 03:30.33 | jasta | yes i wouldnt recommend that approach |
| 03:30.48 | muthu_ | cool.. requery should be just fine |
| 03:30.53 | jasta | it does bother me that you have to be wasteful calling sub activities, though |
| 03:31.09 | muthu_ | its like the master/detail design |
| 03:31.17 | muthu_ | you have a list of results in the previous activity |
| 03:31.32 | muthu_ | then the result detail, when you click on one of the results in the next activity |
| 03:31.39 | muthu_ | so we are looking at the same cursor/db |
| 03:31.48 | jasta | well, you shouldnt be. |
| 03:31.54 | jasta | dont ever query data that you dont intend to use. |
| 03:32.10 | jasta | so the master activity should not query the "detail", merely the summary of the detail that it must display. |
| 03:32.10 | muthu_ | yeah |
| 03:32.15 | muthu_ | right |
| 03:32.21 | jasta | so there would be no information to pass along, since it doesnt have enough to pass. |
| 03:32.31 | muthu_ | but there's enough group info to pass along |
| 03:32.36 | muthu_ | the results are grouped |
| 03:32.47 | muthu_ | so you have group 1..n and each group has results 1..n |
| 03:33.00 | jasta | yes, there is an optimization possibility there for normal applications. not an android app, though :) |
| 03:33.06 | muthu_ | yup |
| 03:33.22 | muthu_ | the overhead of cursor passing, might be a lot more than requery |
| 03:33.25 | jasta | *argh*, i'm so frustrated by this aidl thing |
| 03:33.29 | jasta | i have to give up. i dont get it. |
| 03:33.33 | illuminum | who is this guy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FJHYqE0RDg he's awesome |
| 03:34.15 | muthu_ | that's a pretty old one |
| 03:34.33 | muthu_ | check out his blog: http://too.blogspot.com |
| 03:36.48 | illuminum | who is going to port quake 3 arena to android |
| 03:37.21 | erus` | its been ported to java? |
| 03:37.28 | erus` | *re-written |
| 03:37.57 | illuminum | shrug i dunno i'm a newb to devel |
| 03:38.14 | jasta | lol |
| 03:39.51 | jasta | loses it trying to get his project to build under 1.0 |
| 03:40.03 | jasta | my old hack doesn't even seem to work |
| 03:40.10 | jasta | now it's bitching about R.java and shit |
| 03:40.56 | jasta | ok that was me just being stupid. but still, ugh, crappy aidl :) |
| 03:44.11 | erus` | jasta |
| 03:44.14 | erus` | do you sleep? |
| 03:44.28 | jasta | yes, lots. |
| 03:44.52 | *** join/#android eton (n=eton@202.91.19.194) |
| 03:44.58 | erus` | not as much as me! *goes to sleep* |
| 03:45.29 | umdk1d3 | jasta: remind me again where your from? |
| 03:45.55 | muthu_ | jasta, sleeps at work.. hehe |
| 03:46.03 | umdk1d3 | hah |
| 03:46.10 | jasta | umdk1d3: Seattle, so i'm PST. |
| 03:46.12 | jasta | Google time, woo ;) |
| 03:46.17 | umdk1d3 | lol nice :) |
| 03:47.05 | jasta | this is interesting. in 1.0, for some reason Five doesn't properly save/recover album or artist artwork |
| 03:47.08 | jasta | investigates |
| 03:47.30 | jasta | oh, right, no sd card ;) |
| 03:48.15 | muthu_ | 5 works with amazonmp3? |
| 03:48.29 | jasta | anything works with amazon mp3. it just dumps well formatted mp3 files to the sd card |
| 03:48.48 | jasta | i would eventually like to tinker further to have Five sync back purchased mp3s to your home PC :) |
| 03:48.57 | jasta | nice little value add there |
| 03:49.01 | muthu_ | yuppie |
| 03:51.12 | _avatar | yeah, nice |
| 03:51.28 | jasta | T-Mobile is going to kill me ;) |
| 03:51.37 | *** join/#android gyudon7 (n=gyudon7@noisy.cs.dm.u-tokai.ac.jp) |
| 03:51.49 | jasta | i'm sure they want me to force Five to work only over Wi-Fi. lol. |
| 03:52.03 | muthu_ | why would they force? |
| 03:52.05 | _avatar | why do you say that? |
| 03:52.10 | jasta | AT&T's 3G network is happy to let me waste bandwidth all day long. T-Mobile better get in line. |
| 03:52.30 | muthu_ | jasta, they can shut you down |
| 03:52.36 | jasta | muthu_: check the fine print: T-Mobile will throttle or terminate you if you exceed 1GB of usage per month |
| 03:53.00 | muthu_ | rite |
| 03:53.01 | jasta | muthu_: well, then i'll take my unlocked phone back to AT&T ;P |
| 03:53.10 | muthu_ | haha |
| 03:53.16 | muthu_ | android rocks! |
| 03:53.29 | jasta | i once used 5GB on AT&T 3G in a month and they didnt say a word |
| 03:53.35 | muthu_ | i'm planning to buy an unlocked and use it here |
| 03:53.43 | muthu_ | not sure if it work with existing gsm providers |
| 03:53.48 | jasta | i tethered my phone (which you weren't allowed to do without paying for it, of course), and did a debian net install and some other junk |
| 03:54.05 | jasta | i love AT&T, though. i think theyre a great carrier |
| 03:54.17 | jasta | t-mobile, otoh, is a pile of poop |
| 03:54.31 | *** join/#android clyde (n=arn@c-98-208-32-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 03:55.15 | muthu_ | wow, first time jad worked without errors |
| 03:55.53 | *** join/#android dohtem (n=arn@c-98-208-32-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 03:55.56 | _avatar | jasta: couldn't you add a feature to five that keeps track of how many bits have been transferred OTA, and not exceed some user defined percentage of the bandwidth cap? |
| 03:56.45 | jasta | _avatar: yeah, i probably will do something like that eventually |
| 03:56.52 | jasta | let the user pick a usage profile and have five stick to it |
| 03:58.52 | muthu_ | starting new emu without wipe |
| 03:59.30 | *** join/#android dcode (n=dcode@12-201-87-210.client.mchsi.com) |
| 04:00.19 | *** part/#android ralfz (n=ralf@m201-20.dsl.tsoft.com) |
| 04:02.41 | dcode | is it possible to use the AMD64 sun-java6-jdk, AMD64 Eclipse 3.4, the Android ADT, and the x86 Android SDK? |
| 04:02.52 | dcode | Eclipse is not happy when I try to tell it where the SDK is |
| 04:03.07 | *** join/#android Adamant (n=Adamant@c-98-244-152-196.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 04:03.19 | dcode | and then, I couldn't even run the emulator from the SDK w/o running it as root |
| 04:03.41 | muthu_ | did the timezone emu settings change? |
| 04:05.05 | dcode | ah....nevermind....permissions |
| 04:05.15 | dcode | I unzipped the SDK as root into /opt/android |
| 04:05.23 | dcode | my user didn't have read perms |
| 04:05.38 | summatusmentis | is it bad that I downloaded the SDK only for the emulator? |
| 04:06.03 | chuck | More interestingly, buyers would be able to have access to a "contract free" G1 (with a price point of $399), and could unlock the device with T-Mobile's blessing after 90 days. |
| 04:06.05 | chuck | ugh |
| 04:06.16 | chuck | so, yes, an unlocked google android phone will be available, but damn pricey |
| 04:06.27 | chuck | anyone know how much T-Mobile plans are monthy? |
| 04:07.20 | summatusmentis | chuck: I think $30 for 200 minutes, individual |
| 04:07.28 | summatusmentis | and it goes up from there |
| 04:07.39 | summatusmentis | I looked a while back |
| 04:08.20 | chuck | summatusmentis: ah, so that means i could get an unlocked T-Mobile G1 for the low low price of $490 plus certain taxes |
| 04:08.30 | muthu_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:08.30 | chuck | hopefully someone puts one on ebay that's a little cheaper |
| 04:08.50 | summatusmentis | chuck: is that unfounded? aren't most unsubsidized smartphones ~$500? |
| 04:08.53 | muthu_ | how to get a unique device id? |
| 04:09.38 | chuck | summatusmentis: well, actually, yeah, most of them are around there without contracts now that you make me think of it |
| 04:10.05 | summatusmentis | now, most have exchange support, so if you need that... |
| 04:10.12 | chuck | and my iphone was purchased for $400, and if I jailbreak, unlock, and activate it, it should be worth $300-400 |
| 04:10.47 | chuck | doesn't need exchange :P just IMAP (and i use google apps which probably integrates nicely with google's mobile OS :P) |
| 04:11.27 | muthu_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:11.27 | muthu_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:11.27 | muthu_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:11.27 | muthu_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:11.31 | muthu_ | that's broken too.. |
| 04:11.34 | summatusmentis | chuck: google apps integrates very nicely, just sayin' |
| 04:13.20 | chuck | summatusmentis: do you know if, when android is open sourced at the end of this year-ish, if it will include anything in the way of x86 support for processors? |
| 04:13.47 | summatusmentis | I have no idea, but assuming the kernel is just plain linux, I'd say it's feasible |
| 04:14.02 | jasta | chuck: android is not really particular to a processor any more than linux and its device drivers are. |
| 04:14.07 | chuck | thinks it would be cool to have android on his Eee PC :P |
| 04:14.11 | summatusmentis | chuck: I'm not an Android dev, just an avid fan |
| 04:14.29 | jasta | chuck: the linux kernel is pretty standard. not too much has been modified. |
| 04:14.44 | jasta | in fact, the only reason you cant have it on your eee pc now is because the android stack itself is closed source (and so you cant build it for your own target) |
| 04:14.49 | jasta | that will change when the source is out, for sure. |
| 04:15.06 | jasta | and the dalvik format (and apk formats, of course) are cross platform, so apks can happily install onto any arch |
| 04:15.23 | jasta | i imagine cross compilation will even be quite easy |
| 04:15.43 | chuck | yeah, the only thing i can see not working are things like wireless, even that would get working with madwifi or something like that for android if it's possible to install that |
| 04:15.44 | jasta | assuming google's build system is not an untamable monster |
| 04:15.54 | chuck | jasta: has anyone written a terminal yet? |
| 04:16.12 | *** join/#android rainmkr_ (n=rainmkr@stikipad/admin/rainmkr) |
| 04:16.48 | jasta | kind of. google has, but it it not what i'd call a terminal |
| 04:17.06 | chuck | what do you mean? |
| 04:17.15 | jasta | a proper terminal on linux requires allocation of a pty, which can only be done with ioctl which is not available in Java |
| 04:17.19 | jasta | so you'd need a native layer to punch through to |
| 04:17.30 | jasta | feasible, it just hasn't been done and couldn't be distributed as a standard apk |
| 04:17.40 | summatusmentis | do we not have access to any kernel level anything? |
| 04:17.42 | muthu_ | nice.. 3 errors later.. v1.0 rox |
| 04:17.58 | chuck | jasta: oh, okay, gotcha |
| 04:18.01 | umdk1d3 | did they remove all the syncronizatino stuff from 1.0? |
| 04:18.06 | jasta | summatusmentis: not once you're in the upper layers of the android stack, no. |
| 04:18.34 | summatusmentis | jasta: hmm.. could one write a java installer to install kernel modules, which would then allow access to ioctl, etc. ? |
| 04:18.40 | summatusmentis | or some such thing |
| 04:18.52 | summatusmentis | and is java the only language? |
| 04:18.55 | jasta | summatusmentis: don't assume that google's choice of Linux and other open source technologies translates to unfettered flexibility for app developers. that was merely a sensible choice for underlying OS. |
| 04:19.05 | jasta | summatusmentis: well, that is yet to be seen. i'm betting a firm no. |
| 04:19.14 | summatusmentis | jasta: that's sort of depressing |
| 04:19.21 | summatusmentis | I want kernel access |
| 04:19.23 | summatusmentis | !! |
| 04:19.24 | jasta | first of all, the kernel won't be built with moudlar support (that would be stupid and wasteful) |
| 04:19.39 | jasta | second, all of this magic is likely to be hardcoded into the /system image, which is immutable normally. |
| 04:19.43 | jasta | you'd definitely have to reflash |
| 04:20.04 | jasta | which may or may not be an option to you, depending largely on what manufacturers are willing to provide and what level of standardization google can negotiate there |
| 04:20.05 | gambler | i thought dalvik was a register machine...its cross platform? |
| 04:20.05 | swetland_ | 1. the kernel is built with module support |
| 04:20.28 | jasta | swetland: it isn't currently. |
| 04:20.35 | jasta | or at least wasn't when i looked at M5. |
| 04:20.36 | swetland | the *emulator* kernel may not be |
| 04:20.43 | swetland | the kernel on the g1 hardware most certainly is |
| 04:20.53 | jasta | really, even the production version? |
| 04:21.01 | swetland | yes, even the production version |
| 04:21.12 | swetland | the wifi driver is rather large. we load it on demand. |
| 04:21.18 | jasta | interesting. |
| 04:21.38 | swetland | everything else is compiled in (in general, for embedded devices that does make sense) |
| 04:22.01 | swetland | of course if you start doing usb otg/host, or other hot-pluggable stuff, modules potentially become interesting again |
| 04:22.54 | summatusmentis | jasta, swetland: I'm thinking about OpenAFS access, which is currently only do-able through kernel modules due to licensing |
| 04:23.12 | jasta | well either way, i assume my comment about /system is still true, which means none of this matters at the high level of APK capabilities |
| 04:23.21 | swetland | tweakability of the kernel and system partition will vary depending on oem/carrier choices |
| 04:23.59 | swetland | we'll see some devices that really are wide open, I expect, and some that are a little more traditional in that the system image is not designed to be trivially replaced by the enduser |
| 04:24.01 | f00f- | muthu_: IMEI is unique |
| 04:24.03 | jasta | swetland: of course that would be Google's position, but none of us will be surprised to find all carriers are making the same decision. at least in the US> |
| 04:24.10 | f00f- | muthu_: globally unique |
| 04:24.21 | muthu_ | f00f-, but no way to get it now |
| 04:24.37 | summatusmentis | jasta: there is the hackability factor |
| 04:24.55 | jasta | summatusmentis: which up until this point, US carriers have wanted no part of. i dont see that changing. |
| 04:24.58 | summatusmentis | people have been flashing win mo 6.1 to their old 6.0 or even 5.0 devices for a while now |
| 04:25.29 | jasta | summatusmentis: that is because Microsoft has permitted it. |
| 04:25.32 | jasta | explicitly |
| 04:25.49 | jasta | that doesn't mean you'd go around building your own custom flash image for a win mo device to tweak it around |
| 04:25.53 | jasta | that would be unfathomably difficult |
| 04:26.05 | summatusmentis | you can, people do |
| 04:26.06 | swetland | getting carriers to sign up for totally open app deployment is exciting. end user replacable OS probably more so. but we're headed in a direction of more openness and flexibility in the long run, I think |
| 04:26.07 | jasta | you've got none of the build tools necessary, and android might actually not be that different. |
| 04:26.39 | summatusmentis | jasta: if we've got the stack source, someone will find a way to flash it |
| 04:26.45 | jasta | swetland: exciting, yes. soon, no. ;) |
| 04:27.07 | jasta | summatusmentis: again, those two have nothing to do with each other. building the android binaries that google provides has nothing to do with putting them onto specific hardware. |
| 04:27.46 | jasta | the image format, for example, could be completely proprietary with none of the tools being written or provided by google. |
| 04:27.56 | swetland | nope |
| 04:27.57 | summatusmentis | jasta: I'm aware, but if you can build the binaries, there _will_ be a way found to hack it onto a device |
| 04:28.13 | muthu_ | -timezone Asia/Calcutta doesn't work |
| 04:28.38 | summatusmentis | jasta: people hack linux onto old PDAs/phones all the time |
| 04:28.47 | jasta | summatusmentis: of course it will be, but by that argument anything is possible. it's all down to the amount of work and how much fun it is to do. |
| 04:28.58 | jasta | which the carriers and manufacturers have a ton more control over than you'd think. |
| 04:29.16 | jasta | tell you what, summatusmentis, let's just wait and see. |
| 04:29.20 | jasta | it won't be long now, anyway. |
| 04:29.42 | summatusmentis | jasta: I'm waiting till sprint gets one anyway :) But yeah, regardless, I'm excited :-P |
| 04:29.58 | Adamant | jasta: if people will expend the effort they do jailbreaking the iThings, I wouldn't bet strongly against it not happening. |
| 04:30.12 | jasta | Adamant: i wouldn't either, but that isn't really my point. |
| 04:30.18 | Adamant | ah. |
| 04:30.43 | jasta | Adamant: i don't consider the iphone hacks fun or exciting because they are in constant opposition to what Apple wants you to do with the device. so they will forever make it difficult and lame to do. |
| 04:31.06 | swetland | many people find reverse engineering incredibly fun and rewarding |
| 04:31.09 | summatusmentis | to me, that's part of what makes it fun :) |
| 04:31.13 | Adamant | jasta: they're fun if you like breaking embedded security |
| 04:31.14 | jasta | everyone assumes carriers and manufacturers who "support" Android will have this radically different position and will encourage you to abuse their network and devices. i doubt very much that they will let you do this. |
| 04:31.19 | Adamant | if not, then no. |
| 04:31.25 | jasta | swetland: ...you don't say? *grin* |
| 04:32.02 | swetland | the *important* security on the platform is about protecting users from the apps they install (and apps from each other) |
| 04:32.03 | muthu_ | selecting a ringtone, contacts app crashes |
| 04:32.06 | jasta | Adamant: otoh, i find custom linux distros on Linksys WRT devices to be loads of fun. because Linksys isn't constnatly trying to defeat you. |
| 04:32.22 | swetland | not about protecting the hardware (which is in the hands of the user, with physical access) from the enduser, so much |
| 04:32.43 | Adamant | swetland: I agree, but the carriers probably have a different opinion |
| 04:33.01 | aliases123 | "we need protection from ourselves" |
| 04:33.04 | aliases123 | steve jobs. |
| 04:33.09 | swetland | *personally*, I think if you have a nice recovery bootloader and a simple way to restore the hardware, it's silly to get all restrictive about what the user can install system wise |
| 04:33.19 | jasta | swetland: Adamant is right. your attitude is unlikely to be their attitude, and that is my point. |
| 04:33.25 | swetland | s/hardware/default image/ |
| 04:33.29 | jasta | swetland: silly? really? what about getting a free lunch with tethering, for example? |
| 04:33.40 | Adamant | their incentives to ensure security are less about the user and more about their balance sheet |
| 04:33.45 | swetland | handle it at the network level |
| 04:33.53 | swetland | it's silly to handle it at the hardware level |
| 04:33.59 | Adamant | jasta: if you're willing to pay for the extra data, tethering should be allowed. |
| 04:34.02 | aliases123 | how is it a free lunch |
| 04:34.03 | jasta | silly doesn't mean it won't be their target. |
| 04:34.05 | swetland | nothing stops me from putting that SIM in another device without whatever restrictions |
| 04:34.16 | jasta | Adamant: in the US, data is typically "unlimited" |
| 04:34.23 | jasta | so you wouldn't pay extra. |
| 04:34.26 | Adamant | uh. |
| 04:34.33 | Adamant | most of them are locked to 5G |
| 04:34.37 | aliases123 | this is all about simple logic. said phone connect to the network. said laptop connects to phone. there is no problem |
| 04:34.55 | chuck | you can also just tether and not tell them, and everyone is happy |
| 04:34.59 | jasta | Adamant: yes, but the point is that all of the carriers want to sell you separate laptop cards which cost $40-60/mo. |
| 04:35.00 | Adamant | the G1 is locked to 1G at regular speeds then is speed throttled |
| 04:35.07 | jasta | even though your phone is technically capable of providing the same service. |
| 04:35.09 | f00f- | chuck that is the policy t-mobile will adopt |
| 04:35.13 | jasta | so it's still a free lunch to hack your device to do tethering |
| 04:35.21 | chuck | (kind of like i do with my iphone, though i hear it's strictly forbidden, and i may get my plan cancelled or something like that >_>) |
| 04:35.25 | Adamant | ah. |
| 04:35.31 | swetland | it makes far more sense for the carrier to handle network usage by filtering/throttling/billing than trying to control it on the device side, really. or by trying to upsell you to a fancier plan. |
| 04:35.33 | f00f- | i doubt the G1 is locked adamant, it's a general network policy regardless of device |
| 04:35.50 | Adamant | f00f-: well, that's what I meant |
| 04:35.51 | f00f- | you cannot control it on the device side anyway |
| 04:35.57 | aliases123 | damn right. |
| 04:36.01 | jasta | swetland: hehe, of course. but again, what is sensible is historically not what carriers do. |
| 04:36.04 | gambler | they said in the webcast it is simlocked |
| 04:36.07 | jasta | in fact, it's typically exactly the opposite. |
| 04:36.27 | swetland | times change. last product I worked on had a closed, walled garden app store much like the iphone one |
| 04:36.32 | swetland | this product does not |
| 04:36.32 | aliases123 | jasta: so for end users. |
| 04:36.36 | jasta | why do you think the openness android is pioneering is so new in the first place? :) |
| 04:37.17 | jasta | swetland: sure, but nothing changes quickly. |
| 04:37.36 | jasta | and this is the first trial of android, i doubt we'll see anything spectacular. |
| 04:37.57 | swetland | I suppose not. Probably all dull and boring stuff that's been done before ^^ |
| 04:38.11 | jasta | well, i wouldn't say that either. |
| 04:38.30 | swetland | the sarcasm, it may not be easily detectable in this medium |
| 04:38.36 | jasta | all i'm trying to do is defeat this sensationalism folks bring to the channel. that since android uses linux, somehow it's magically the most hackable thing to come out of the cell industry. |
| 04:38.52 | muthu_ | http://www.boingboing.net/2008/09/23/android.html |
| 04:38.53 | jasta | swetland: i detected the sarcasm, i just wanted to clarify. |
| 04:39.05 | aliases123 | well steve jobs is very happy 200+ patents in their iphone |
| 04:39.36 | jasta | swetland: i hate the general attitude about linux and open source being magic. |
| 04:39.49 | jasta | its propogated typically by folks that understand neither, sadly. |
| 04:40.52 | jasta | swetland: btw, i've got a long history of reverse engineering, and yes i plan to hack the crap out of Android ;) |
| 04:41.17 | jasta | first things first, though, i need to *fix* android when source comes out. that fucking mediaplayer class is killing me. |
| 04:41.23 | swetland | I find your absolutism and authoritativeness highly amusing |
| 04:41.36 | aliases123 | me agrees |
| 04:41.56 | jasta | swetland: i actually think i'm being pretty vague, defeating the absolutism of others. |
| 04:42.07 | *** join/#android gyudon7 (n=gyudon7@p2190-ipad43hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp) |
| 04:42.12 | jasta | "i can't wait for android because i can do anything i want", for example. |
| 04:42.42 | aliases123 | jasta: that will never happen and who ever thinks that is an idiot |
| 04:43.02 | f00f- | muthu_: what are you talking about |
| 04:43.11 | f00f- | muthu_: use the TelephonyManager |
| 04:43.15 | jasta | swetland: really, i don't know where that comment comes from. |
| 04:43.16 | f00f- | muthu_: like you showed buddy |
| 04:43.25 | muthu_ | f00f-, the method is gone |
| 04:43.32 | muthu_ | getDefault not availabel |
| 04:43.37 | muthu_ | s/bel/ble |
| 04:43.40 | f00f- | get it from a service |
| 04:43.49 | muthu_ | guess so |
| 04:44.12 | muthu_ | the last time i checked, it wasn't in the service |
| 04:44.21 | f00f- | Context.getSystemService(TELEPHONY_SERVICE) |
| 04:44.25 | f00f- | maybe it was renamed |
| 04:44.41 | jasta | what are you guys trying to do? get the IMEI? |
| 04:44.49 | muthu_ | yeah |
| 04:44.50 | f00f- | yeah |
| 04:44.58 | jasta | TelephonyManager tm = (TelephonyManager)MetaService.this |
| 04:45.00 | jasta | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:45.06 | jasta | tm.getDeviceId() is the IMEI |
| 04:45.16 | muthu_ | cool |
| 04:45.18 | *** mode/#android [+o SanMehat] by ChanServ |
| 04:45.22 | muthu_ | jasta the android guru |
| 04:46.04 | jasta | it used to be all 0's in the emulator, i haven't checked that it still is. |
| 04:46.18 | chuck | google needs to add support for ruby android applications, and ruby app engine applications :P |
| 04:46.29 | summatusmentis | hi SanMehat |
| 04:46.44 | f00f- | ugh |
| 04:47.20 | *** join/#android milos_ (n=milos@92.36.136.53) |
| 04:48.13 | *** join/#android riversma (n=chatzill@c-24-11-143-128.hsd1.sc.comcast.net) |
| 04:48.23 | muthu_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:48.24 | muthu_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:50.08 | muthu_ | 000000000000000 |
| 04:50.31 | jasta | yup, tahts what it used to be |
| 04:50.35 | jasta | shame |
| 04:51.00 | muthu_ | jasta, why? |
| 04:51.03 | f00f- | muthu_: try it on a real device |
| 04:51.10 | muthu_ | it cannot be meaningful now |
| 04:51.12 | jasta | you guys have real devices? |
| 04:51.21 | f00f- | nope :X |
| 04:51.27 | muthu_ | nope :X |
| 04:51.38 | jasta | ugh. |
| 04:51.39 | f00f- | IMEI is 'kept' in firmware |
| 04:58.49 | aliases123 | neat. |
| 05:05.25 | illuminum | i wish my money transfer to etrade would hurry up before the rest of the world realizes that google and amazon are underpriced |
| 05:08.05 | *** join/#android covalentbond_ (n=covalent@cpe-66-65-148-87.nyc.res.rr.com) |
| 05:08.43 | f00f- | heh |
| 05:09.07 | covalentbond_ | So I was at the launch event this AM and spent some time playing with the Market app. It's pretty slick, and was definitely real, Has it made its way out into the wild anywhere yet? |
| 05:09.32 | covalentbond_ | I thought about it too late, but guess I had the chance to ship it off the phone while I was there. Oh, well... |
| 05:11.11 | f00f- | not yet covalentbond_ |
| 05:11.17 | f00f- | C6H12O6 |
| 05:11.54 | covalentbond_ | :) |
| 05:12.02 | covalentbond_ | screw the ionics! |
| 05:12.08 | f00f- | you were press? |
| 05:12.43 | covalentbond_ | close enough. I run http://www.medialets.com/ |
| 05:13.01 | covalentbond_ | We know lots of the press there, the T-Mobile folks, the Google folks... |
| 05:13.46 | covalentbond_ | The whole production went of really well. |
| 05:14.06 | covalentbond_ | The google team kicked some serious butt getting it together. |
| 05:14.18 | covalentbond_ | (well, their events team, but them nonetheless...) |
| 05:14.21 | swetland | we assembled our best butt kickers |
| 05:14.25 | f00f- | awesome |
| 05:15.29 | f00f- | what part of android do you work on swetland |
| 05:15.48 | swetland | I'm the systems/kernel lead |
| 05:15.58 | f00f- | were you at i/o ? |
| 05:16.07 | swetland | yeah |
| 05:16.14 | f00f- | so did you fix the firewall yet? :P |
| 05:16.22 | swetland | just for the fireside chat panel |
| 05:16.26 | swetland | fix the firewall? |
| 05:16.26 | *** join/#android jham_ (n=jham@c-67-180-169-183.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 05:16.44 | f00f- | for wifi, bluetooth, network, etc. |
| 05:16.55 | f00f- | to prevent rouge connections |
| 05:16.57 | f00f- | etc. |
| 05:17.05 | covalentbond_ | swetland - awesome. you were at be. i was at NeXT way back when... |
| 05:17.46 | swetland | nothing to connect to unless you install an app that creates a listen socket bound to a non-local or any address |
| 05:17.58 | covalentbond_ | i still have a bebox somewhere |
| 05:18.13 | *** join/#android taaz (n=dlehn@pool-71-171-20-4.nwrknj.east.verizon.net) |
| 05:18.19 | f00f- | well |
| 05:18.21 | swetland | as do I. in a closet full of increasingly ancient machines |
| 05:18.32 | f00f- | i have a bluetooth server |
| 05:18.36 | f00f- | but want to limit connections to it |
| 05:18.41 | f00f- | let's say it's RFCOMM server |
| 05:18.49 | f00f- | based on CoD or BT addr |
| 05:19.10 | covalentbond_ | that's what happens when you spend a life in tech, i guess |
| 05:19.41 | swetland | is there a method for identifying the peer name/address in BT (haven't worked with it much myself). Could certainly do that for IP sockets. |
| 05:20.02 | f00f- | yeah inquiry vs discovery ... discovery does names |
| 05:20.03 | swetland | of course BT also has a peering process before you can connect |
| 05:20.13 | f00f- | but i was thinking of a more low level control |
| 05:21.23 | swetland | interesting idea. not something we've done in 1.0, but certainly something that could be added. just as one could use the iptables stuff for IP level filtering |
| 05:21.44 | f00f- | yeah exactly |
| 05:21.58 | f00f- | basically protection for DoS attacks over the air |
| 05:22.08 | f00f- | or mitigation of them |
| 05:22.16 | swetland | doesn't help a lot |
| 05:22.24 | f00f- | scratch that |
| 05:22.25 | f00f- | i mean |
| 05:22.30 | swetland | because if you want to DoS somebody by running down their battery |
| 05:22.35 | f00f- | being able to hide your service from the PublicBrowseGroup |
| 05:22.37 | f00f- | for instance |
| 05:22.46 | swetland | the fact that the kernel filters the packets doesn't save you from the radio activity, wakeup activity, etc |
| 05:22.52 | f00f- | yeah |
| 05:23.39 | swetland | (which is one reason why most carrier networks are heavily nat'd and devices are not directly addressable from the outside or each other -- just the kind of random spammy stuff you can see on the internet would be hell on battery life) |
| 05:24.40 | f00f- | right |
| 05:24.50 | f00f- | so i'm mainly talking external connectivity |
| 05:25.00 | aliases123 | f00f-: you need filtering at the next hop away |
| 05:29.22 | aliases123 | f00f-: like you don't want some one continually nmaping port 139 on you. |
| 05:31.16 | f00f- | as i said, i'm not talking about network access |
| 05:31.20 | f00f- | i'm talking about bluetooth |
| 05:33.39 | aliases123 | did any one see how long it took to boot the device btw |
| 05:33.42 | aliases123 | was that shown ? |
| 05:33.58 | Adamant | covalentbond_: still got a NeXT Cube? ever see the pics/vids of Simson Garfinkel burning his? |
| 05:34.39 | covalentbond_ | Yep and yep :) |
| 05:34.41 | Adamant | the case was magnesium so it would actually burn pretty spectacularly |
| 05:34.47 | covalentbond_ | pretty colors |
| 05:34.47 | Adamant | cool |
| 05:34.53 | covalentbond_ | took a lot of heat but it would slag nicely |
| 05:35.37 | Adamant | I should get one, if they don't cost a fortune on the used market. |
| 05:35.55 | covalentbond | you can generally pick them up anywhere between free and $100 |
| 05:36.03 | covalentbond | good luck finding one with a working MO drive |
| 05:37.01 | gambler | f00f-, you cant defend against dos attacks esp in wireless |
| 05:37.14 | f00f- | i know |
| 05:37.33 | Adamant | kinda surprised. I thought they were fairly rare and figured collectors might be snapping them up |
| 05:37.39 | gambler | f00f-, your best defense is a good offense... |
| 05:38.09 | gambler | call in the airstrike |
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| 05:39.14 | covalentbond | depends - in our ex-NeXT community, they can occasionally be found in large piles for free when the spouse of an ex-NeXTer finally puts their foot down and boots the hardware out of the house :) |
| 05:40.22 | f00f- | lollerskates |
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| 05:55.43 | Adamant | covalentbond: true, but I'm not living in the Valley right now. :) |
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| 06:13.07 | muthu_ | what's the default layout for ExpandableListActivity? |
| 06:13.13 | muthu_ | and the id of the listview? |
| 06:14.12 | romainguy | muthu_: look at the ApiDemos |
| 06:14.32 | muthu_ | romainguy, apidemos just does the default |
| 06:14.35 | muthu_ | no layout nothing |
| 06:15.01 | muthu_ | there's 3 examples.. none of them show how to customize ELA |
| 06:15.10 | romainguy | then ask on the mailing list |
| 06:15.23 | muthu_ | yeah, mailing list |
| 06:15.29 | muthu_ | forgot about that.. totally |
| 06:15.45 | muthu_ | need to get back in action ;) |
| 06:20.33 | muthu_ | is there a way to get the default layout of an activity? |
| 06:20.44 | romainguy | what do you mean? |
| 06:21.03 | muthu_ | get a blank screen, in a view |
| 06:21.14 | muthu_ | need to add a textview saying nothing found |
| 06:21.24 | muthu_ | if results found, list is shown |
| 06:21.47 | romainguy | that's what ListView's empty view is for |
| 06:21.55 | muthu_ | what? where? |
| 06:22.05 | romainguy | look at the ApiDemos |
| 06:22.08 | romainguy | and at the docs |
| 06:22.15 | muthu_ | ok.. now i remember |
| 06:22.22 | muthu_ | guess it was discussed a while back |
| 06:22.24 | muthu_ | cool |
| 06:22.37 | romainguy | it's been in the SDK since M3 I think |
| 06:22.41 | muthu_ | rite |
| 06:22.48 | muthu_ | i know you mentioned it before |
| 06:22.58 | muthu_ | romainguy, where's your g1 videos? |
| 06:23.06 | romainguy | what do you mean? |
| 06:23.07 | muthu_ | was looking at the android peeks, didn't find yours |
| 06:23.12 | muthu_ | in youtube |
| 06:23.14 | romainguy | there's one with me |
| 06:23.18 | anno^da_ | haha yeah :) I searched that as well :) |
| 06:23.21 | muthu_ | which one? |
| 06:23.22 | anno^da_ | which one ? |
| 06:23.27 | romainguy | the one where I say my name :) |
| 06:23.32 | muthu_ | nope |
| 06:23.35 | anno^da_ | Grr :D |
| 06:23.38 | romainguy | yes, it's there |
| 06:23.39 | muthu_ | may be they pulled it ;) |
| 06:24.07 | muthu_ | what were your tricks? |
| 06:24.45 | muthu_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:24.46 | muthu_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:24.56 | muthu_ | hope this works for Expandable as well |
| 06:26.05 | muthu_ | romainguy, 1-10, what's your number in youtube? |
| 06:26.15 | romainguy | the one where I say my name :) |
| 06:26.21 | muthu_ | hehe |
| 06:26.59 | anno^da_ | haha |
| 06:27.10 | anno^da_ | ok lets walk through the videos again :D |
| 06:27.16 | muthu_ | anno^da_, you found it? |
| 06:28.07 | muthu_ | jeff, jack, jason, eric |
| 06:28.19 | romainguy | hey |
| 06:28.26 | romainguy | I'm in 4 videos |
| 06:28.40 | muthu_ | ha! |
| 06:28.41 | anno^da_ | lol 4 videos :) |
| 06:28.43 | muthu_ | just found it |
| 06:28.45 | muthu_ | lol |
| 06:28.48 | anno^da_ | which one muthu_ |
| 06:28.49 | muthu_ | yay! 4 |
| 06:28.55 | muthu_ | number 4 |
| 06:28.59 | romainguy | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lScgyXGxwo&feature=user |
| 06:29.03 | romainguy | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LkNlTNHZzE&feature=user |
| 06:29.03 | muthu_ | home screen shortcuts |
| 06:29.07 | romainguy | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aUjukCdPyQ&feature=user |
| 06:29.27 | muthu_ | with the android tshirt and all.. |
| 06:30.10 | muthu_ | nice |
| 06:30.12 | anno^da_ | ahhh havent seen them all :-) |
| 06:31.21 | muthu_ | flickr app is pretty cool |
| 06:34.28 | anno^da_ | perhaps you could highlight the new photo that is available after the notification :-) (just came to my mind while wathcing the flickr app video) |
| 06:34.57 | romainguy | I thought I did with m finger |
| 06:35.01 | romainguy | should have clicked on it |
| 06:35.04 | romainguy | but we tried to keep the videos short |
| 06:35.39 | anno^da_ | yeah you did it with the finger. |
| 06:35.44 | anno^da_ | Just an idea for the app itself |
| 06:35.57 | anno^da_ | (some eyecany if you want :-) ) |
| 06:36.01 | anno^da_ | +d |
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| 06:36.15 | romainguy | more eyecandy? :) |
| 06:36.38 | muthu_ | the flickr app will be downloaded like crazy |
| 06:36.46 | romainguy | I doubt it |
| 06:36.46 | muthu_ | we can shoot and upload directly, right? |
| 06:36.50 | romainguy | no |
| 06:36.53 | romainguy | it's just a simple viewer |
| 06:36.57 | muthu_ | oh |
| 06:37.02 | romainguy | it's meant as an developer's demo |
| 06:37.04 | romainguy | nothing more |
| 06:37.08 | muthu_ | ok |
| 06:37.28 | muthu_ | if you add an upload.. then nothing like it |
| 06:37.45 | romainguy | I could... but it's work :) |
| 06:37.57 | muthu_ | yeah, but you'll be a celebrity then :) |
| 06:38.08 | muthu_ | the most downloaded app title will be yours |
| 06:38.16 | anno^da_ | you can have my flickr upload :-) |
| 06:38.25 | romainguy | muthu_: lol, doubt it :p |
| 06:38.38 | muthu_ | would be interesting to watch those apps |
| 06:38.48 | muthu_ | you know the ratings. the downloads etc., |
| 06:38.56 | muthu_ | see how the adc winners are faring against the rest |
| 06:39.09 | anno^da_ | When are the developers able to register for the market store? |
| 06:39.15 | muthu_ | oct |
| 06:39.22 | muthu_ | prolly a week before launch |
| 06:39.27 | anno^da_ | ah ok must have stepped over that |
| 06:39.32 | anno^da_ | thanks |
| 06:39.49 | muthu_ | around launch is the werd |
| 06:40.15 | mazzen | oh... i can't wait for the german release :-) i *want* that phone!!! :-) |
| 06:40.26 | romainguy | btw |
| 06:40.32 | romainguy | speaking of Europe |
| 06:40.41 | romainguy | I'll be giving two Android talks in December at Devoxx: http://devoxx.com/display/JV08/Filthy+Rich+Android+Clients |
| 06:40.44 | mazzen | this os is so freaky cool! :-) |
| 06:41.15 | mazzen | hey! that's pretty close to my home |
| 06:41.20 | romainguy | Antwerp? |
| 06:41.25 | muthu_ | romainguy, it was called filthy rich swing clients? |
| 06:41.26 | mazzen | i 'll be there! :-) |
| 06:41.30 | romainguy | :) |
| 06:41.34 | romainguy | muthu_: just Filthy Rich Clients |
| 06:41.40 | muthu_ | oh rite |
| 06:41.58 | romainguy | but then Chet, with whom I wrote the book Filthy Rich Clients, went to work for Adobe and did a Filthy Rich Flex Clients talk :) |
| 06:42.00 | mazzen | western germany, that's very close to the netherlands |
| 06:42.21 | romainguy | I know :) |
| 06:42.42 | anno^da_ | romainguy: Do you know if there will be some developer programm regarding the hardware. So that european devs dont have to wait for the device launch in November / Q1 2009 ? |
| 06:42.51 | romainguy | I cannot answer this question |
| 06:42.54 | mazzen | romainguy: could you please bring a few hundreds of the G1 with you ? ;-) |
| 06:42.55 | anno^da_ | ok |
| 06:43.11 | anno^da_ | mazzen: that would be second wish :-) |
| 06:43.11 | romainguy | mazzen: I'll certainly have a couple, one for myself and one for demos :p |
| 06:43.14 | anno^da_ | +my |
| 06:43.25 | mazzen | args :) |
| 06:43.36 | muthu_ | if you bring the G1's.. it will be a soldout |
| 06:43.45 | romainguy | lol |
| 06:43.52 | romainguy | this conference doesn't need a G1 to be sold out :) |
| 06:43.54 | anno^da_ | haha I will try to be there |
| 06:44.03 | romainguy | it used to be called JavaPolis |
| 06:44.09 | romainguy | it's the biggest Java conference in Europe |
| 06:44.13 | muthu_ | oh rite |
| 06:44.27 | romainguy | except now it's not just Java anymore |
| 06:44.45 | muthu_ | java needs to give way |
| 06:45.16 | mazzen | seriously: does anyone knows if it's possible to buy the phone without a two year contract? |
| 06:45.41 | anno^da_ | mazzen: the T-Mobile CTO said it will be available for 399 withouth contracr |
| 06:45.49 | davidw | december is a weird time for conferences |
| 06:45.50 | mazzen | dollar? |
| 06:45.51 | anno^da_ | in the US. |
| 06:47.30 | mazzen | hm... guess that will fresh the ebay market again :) |
| 06:48.02 | muthu_ | would be nice to buy an unlocked and use it will local carriers |
| 06:49.07 | anno^da_ | well thats the choice if there wont be a dev program |
| 06:49.32 | anno^da_ | In order to develope we have to import the phones and unlock them. |
| 06:49.33 | mazzen | yes, i think / thought so also, ... but android without a data flat... makes maybe not so much fun |
| 06:49.40 | anno^da_ | true |
| 06:49.48 | anno^da_ | for testing it would be ok (with wifi) |
| 06:49.54 | mazzen | yes |
| 06:50.17 | anno^da_ | So romainguy has to import them for us ;) |
| 06:50.24 | mazzen | hehe :-) |
| 06:51.30 | mazzen | i would love to see the face of the duty officer... "do you have anything for duty?" "yes, sir. 423 htc G1 with android" |
| 06:53.38 | anno^da_ | romainguy: are the different kinds of the android logo (that are visible in the back of the videos) available on the web? ( I like the scratching android ) |
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| 07:09.22 | gambler | that was a good video |
| 07:09.32 | gambler | Apps are created equal |
| 07:09.39 | anno^da_ | reading through all the comments the only big criticism is the UI of the OS. (reading through some none geek site stuff) |
| 07:12.12 | anno^da_ | But what I recognized was that after they saw some of the videos (explaining the new possibilities in easy words) the opinion slightly changed. |
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| 07:19.04 | anno^da_ | To sum up the comments just one sentence quoted: "Man hätte sich doch ein etwas ansprechenderes Modell für den Start aussuchen können." - "They should have chosen a more appealing phone for the first launch" |
| 07:19.36 | davidw | I'm curious how soon we'll see other phones |
| 07:19.52 | davidw | I mean, that's part of the appeal... Android will be an open system with lots of different stuff |
| 07:20.55 | anno^da_ | Yeah but thats the point G1 in Europe in 2009. And no other phones announced. |
| 07:21.15 | gdsx | davidw: I believe I read that some folks got the 0.9 SDK running on hardware already |
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| 07:22.47 | anno^da_ | Well but thats geek stuff and not interesting for the normal consumer. |
| 07:23.20 | davidw | gdsx, yeah, I mean real phones for sale |
| 07:24.53 | gdsx | ::nod:: |
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| 09:10.58 | muthu_ | man, funny widgets can be created by fiddling the widget dimens |
| 09:11.08 | muthu_ | wow, looks cool |
| 09:11.45 | tomgibara | ulmen: I think the danger is that if the android platform is strongly associated with a poorly selling phone, people will draw negative conclusions about the platform |
| 09:12.13 | tric | hmm, maybe we need a -dev and a -devices chan and a -talk ;) |
| 09:13.14 | tomgibara | tric: Sorry, I guess this has already been debated to death, I'm late to the party |
| 09:13.40 | ulmen | and -fanbois, -critics, -other, -internal, -press, -bla, -foo, -bar, and -baz |
| 09:13.46 | ulmen | it's so crowded here. |
| 09:13.48 | tric | hehe, true! |
| 09:13.51 | ulmen | i can't even hear myself |
| 09:15.05 | davidw | tomgibara, "more open" is the key selling point for me |
| 09:15.32 | davidw | and I think that long term, that's a strength even for 'average users' |
| 09:15.34 | muthu_ | this channel doesn't have enough traffic |
| 09:15.36 | ulmen | tomgibara: i think once there are more phones than the g1, people will quickly see that android is not a phone but an operating system (like they very well do with windows mobile and symbian) |
| 09:15.47 | ulmen | and then it's all about the apps and features |
| 09:15.56 | muthu_ | #iphone is always active |
| 09:15.57 | tomgibara | davidw: Yes, I'm a huge fan of Android; and I won't touch the iPhone because of the distribution model. |
| 09:16.47 | anno^da_ | testapp from the new Openmoko UI: http://www.rasterman.com/files/illume-new-01.png |
| 09:16.53 | tomgibara | ulmen: It is conceivable that android could get a bad reputation among consumers because they associate it with poor/expensive phones. |
| 09:17.05 | anno^da_ | Thats a clean and nice looking UI. :-) |
| 09:17.33 | tomgibara | It's possible that it becomes a negative spiral: carriers not touching android because the percieve it as being unpopular with customers |
| 09:18.50 | ulmen | possible, but for now far from being reality ... android got rather good press imho |
| 09:20.12 | ulmen | and also, i don't buy my phones from carriers or am intrested in contracts that subsidize hardware =) |
| 09:20.37 | ulmen | so as long as the hardware manufacturers keep developing phones, i'm happy |
| 09:20.54 | tomgibara | ulmen: I agree its not a reality, but it is a risk, and one with very severe consequences, even if you regard it as a remote possibilty |
| 09:21.47 | ulmen | so what is your bottom line? not touch it because it's something new and it could fail? |
| 09:21.55 | tomgibara | Techies make this mistake frequently: because they know so many techies they grossly overestimate the impact that popularity among techies has on sales. Even if developers love android, and even if we see straight through the charades of the carriers, it won't make difference to direct hardware sales. |
| 09:22.04 | ulmen | imho there are too big names involved to make it a complete disaster |
| 09:22.19 | ulmen | also the strategy is good (enough) to be a success |
| 09:23.08 | tomgibara | I have already developed four apps for android, so no, that's not my bottom line... I want it to succeed because I think it's superbly engineered and a very positive development in the industry |
| 09:23.28 | tomgibara | What I am concerned about is that the first phone could tank and bring down android with it |
| 09:24.06 | anno^da_ | Hmm well that is what I'm concerend about as well. I don't know from what I hear from the normal end users the reactions are not that positive. |
| 09:24.22 | muthu_ | if the first phone tanks, google might be forced to look at cheaper phones |
| 09:24.34 | anno^da_ | As expected they compare features and UI / hardware design. |
| 09:24.43 | tric | hm, k, fixed the vibrator, didnt use the context.getsystemservice. |
| 09:24.46 | ulmen | well but now it is like it is, the g1 is the first handset and it has some (imho) rather minor flaws, the world did not fall apart and the future is bright =) |
| 09:24.55 | tric | but how to set qemu flags on the sdk1 emu? |
| 09:24.58 | anno^da_ | ulmen: true :D |
| 09:25.02 | muthu_ | may be they can target dumb phones |
| 09:25.55 | tomgibara | ulmen: minor flaws on a device at that price will get ripped apart in the press (rightly or wrongly) |
| 09:26.06 | muthu_ | G1 has got some great press |
| 09:26.10 | muthu_ | so looks like a hit to me |
| 09:26.51 | tomgibara | muthu_: good press where? |
| 09:26.56 | tric | hmm, not so great press here in germany |
| 09:27.29 | tric | more like: "not yet final os on common hw with no stereo bluetooth and no exchange support" |
| 09:28.33 | muthu_ | good press in the blogosphere |
| 09:28.34 | tric | damn, google guys still asleep? |
| 09:28.52 | tomgibara | muthu_: That hasn't been my impression |
| 09:28.59 | tric | muthu: nobody cares about blogs if real (paper) press is bad. |
| 09:29.08 | tomgibara | But then again I don't really read very much of that stuff |
| 09:29.44 | muthu_ | oh well |
| 09:29.45 | anno^da_ | http://gizmodo.com/5053734/how-many-google-engineers-does-it-take-to-tell-the-time# <- I recognized that lack in detail even at the press conference. The teaser video was something I would never show on an official press release. But that are things that are important outside the developers cage. |
| 09:30.59 | anno^da_ | One example: They buy a mp3 from the Amazon store. After that they play it with the music app and no cover is shown. |
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| 09:31.45 | anno^da_ | That are details and they might seem unimportant but they make the whole thing look somehow unprofessionel. |
| 09:32.10 | tric | hehe, yeah, the clock thing was really hyped in forums |
| 09:32.25 | tric | i wonder why such a thing happens |
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| 09:33.24 | anno^da_ | Well there are a lot of these problems. |
| 09:33.26 | tomgibara | anno^da_: This is a classic engineering dilema imo: increased freedom to engineer each component to its fullest potential can degrade their union |
| 09:33.42 | anno^da_ | Yeah sure tomgibara for third party apps. |
| 09:33.50 | anno^da_ | But not for the pre installed ones. |
| 09:34.01 | tric | yes, but there shouldnt be errors in the main promo pic! |
| 09:34.02 | tomgibara | It applies to preinstalled ones too |
| 09:34.03 | anno^da_ | And not for the details in press conference videos. |
| 09:34.09 | muthu_ | the emulator has problems with timezone now |
| 09:34.44 | anno^da_ | Yeah sure but thats something that has not to be so. Thats the polishing which Android lacks at the moment. |
| 09:34.47 | tomgibara | If the designer of app X thinks 16pt font works best for his app and, designer of app Y think 18pt font works best, what do you do? |
| 09:35.02 | tomgibara | Force them to make each app worse with a 17pt font? |
| 09:35.19 | tomgibara | These problems don't just disappear because the apps are preinstalled. |
| 09:35.23 | anno^da_ | tomgibara: I will connect to both and get a solution. In the end the user experience counts or not ? |
| 09:35.52 | tomgibara | But the end user experience will generally be worse for both apps. |
| 09:36.00 | anno^da_ | I know that in an open system there will never be a consistent look. |
| 09:36.20 | anno^da_ | But in press videos there has to be one. |
| 09:36.51 | muthu_ | hope the google market is open and free |
| 09:36.58 | ulmen | as long as they provide some good upgrade mechanism, i personally don't care to much about software flaws. google/the oha has quite some developer power to let the os evolve quickly |
| 09:36.59 | tomgibara | I agree, its hard to sell. I point to linux vs. OSX for a perfectly extreme example |
| 09:37.05 | anno^da_ | I dont know it is the same problem I recognized with a lot of open source apps. They are technically great but the look is well ... ok :-) |
| 09:37.24 | anno^da_ | Yeah thats a good comparison. |
| 09:37.36 | tomgibara | It's exactly the same issue, but very extreme |
| 09:37.51 | tomgibara | Each linux app develops to be extremely well suited to its task |
| 09:38.03 | tomgibara | But can make working between them very painful |
| 09:38.12 | anno^da_ | Agreed. |
| 09:38.21 | tomgibara | And it makes them inconsistent, so harder to learn. |
| 09:38.57 | anno^da_ | Yeah the point is if you look at the OSX developers. They do care about consitency. |
| 09:39.03 | anno^da_ | Even if they are not from Apple. |
| 09:39.04 | tomgibara | In the end, you're right: someone has to take responsibility for a collection of apps and say: I am willing to make these apps worse, to make the collection better |
| 09:39.29 | tomgibara | How far you go down that line is variable |
| 09:39.39 | anno^da_ | True. |
| 09:39.50 | anno^da_ | It is all about details. |
| 09:40.09 | anno^da_ | But the details can become very important if you step to the end user. |
| 09:40.30 | anno^da_ | (the normal dumb consumer. Dumb in this case must not be negative) |
| 09:41.24 | tric | damn, and seems like im having nativ lib/jni problems in sdk1 |
| 09:41.46 | tomgibara | One detail that frustrates me is that I can't change the design of the clock on the homescreen, but I can do it for the alarm |
| 09:42.07 | tomgibara | but the alarm clock is one that I rarely see |
| 09:42.39 | tomgibara | and, the homescreen clock isn't available as one of the options |
| 09:43.01 | tomgibara | it just seems daft to me |
| 09:43.15 | anno^da_ | Yeah that is something that I mean with details. |
| 09:43.41 | anno^da_ | Well an looking at this new Openmoko picture: http://www.rasterman.com/files/illume-new-01.png - Good design can be done and doesnt have to look like the iPhone. |
| 09:44.35 | tric | hmm, i was thinking, is there a on screen keyboard included in android 1.0? for phones without hw keys? |
| 09:44.48 | tomgibara | tric: not as far as I know |
| 09:44.59 | tomgibara | though I haven't used a phone yet |
| 09:45.47 | tomgibara | romainguy said that he thought they would be adding one, but he wasn't sure |
| 09:46.28 | tomgibara | I suspect they cut out APIs they didn't need on the first phones, to make sure they shipped on time |
| 09:47.01 | muthu_ | video recording is a big miss |
| 09:47.39 | tomgibara | Even though the hw keyboard is a major feature for me, I think I'd find the lack of a sw keyboard quite annoying |
| 09:48.12 | tomgibara | For example, you can filter the apps by typing letters, but that means that you need to open the phone first? Not really a timesaver is it. |
| 09:49.08 | tomgibara | (in the instance where you want to launch an app that wants portrait mode) |
| 09:49.09 | muthu_ | so mostly the phone will be in landscape mode |
| 09:50.05 | tomgibara | For these devices and apps that need typing, yes, that was obvious a while ago |
| 09:57.09 | muthu_ | so landscape is the default |
| 09:59.01 | tric | anyone here can please try -qemu flag on new emu? its included in doku but emu resports "no such option" here. |
| 09:59.29 | tomgibara | I wouldn't describe it as the default, but I think it will be more much more common than developers expect - I think they get brainwashed by its default into portait |
| 09:59.45 | ulmen | i hope for some onscreen keyboard love to come soon, which is enough for things like entering an url or contact |
| 10:00.24 | ulmen | for writing mails and longer text, the big hardware keyboard is obviously the premium solution |
| 10:01.25 | tomgibara | tric: I get "w: invalid option -- '-qemu'" |
| 10:02.05 | ulmen | and then it's onscreen only on the iphone vs onscreen + hardware keyboard ... win for android =) |
| 10:02.16 | tric | hmm, ok. so not my fault, but how do we are supposed to setup the network now? ie for listening sockets |
| 10:03.19 | tric | hmm, and did you guys read "Replacing Dialer, IM, and SMS Apps" on -dev group? interesting question. it was always "all apps are equal", doesnt seem to be true today |
| 10:05.14 | tomgibara | tric: I think they have been pretty clear from early on that core phone apps would not be up for replacement |
| 10:07.53 | tric | well, iirc in first talks they said _any_, but well. |
| 10:08.07 | Adamant | the US press for G1 has been pretty positive |
| 10:08.37 | Adamant | Mossberg even thinks the Android is the only real competitor for iPhone, and he's a big Apple fan |
| 10:10.22 | anno^da_ | haha that video is nice: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaN1Nz1Dyls&eurl=http://gizmodo.com/5053734/how-many-google-engineers-does-it-take-to-tell-the-time |
| 10:11.09 | tric | yeah, in the long run i would think that aswell, but the current hw is no competitor imho. everyone i talked to was disappointed about the design |
| 10:11.28 | tomgibara | The first sentence in the "The Times" (UK paper): The T-Mobile G1 is great. The iPhone is better. |
| 10:12.20 | tric | and almost same $$$ for a chinese phone! ;) |
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| 10:19.59 | Adamant | they're all Chinese |
| 10:20.19 | Adamant | at least in terms of who physically assembles them |
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| 10:25.27 | tric | adamant: we know, but most ppl think different |
| 10:26.12 | Adamant | tric: it says "Designed in California. Assembled In China" on most Apple products |
| 10:26.30 | Adamant | thanks for dissing America Steve. |
| 10:28.31 | Adamant | you could at least say "California, USA" |
| 10:35.32 | ulmen | "California, USA, North America, Western hemisphere, Earth, Solar system, ...., Milky Way Galaxy, ..., Universe" |
| 10:35.49 | ulmen | and that would still diss someone, propably |
| 10:50.30 | muthu_ | where's Mars? |
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| 11:06.04 | ulmen | mars is not part in the hierarchy of californias location |
| 11:08.16 | muthu_ | hehe |
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| 12:07.03 | tric | hmm, was there any word about installing a apk on the g1 beside the market? maybe via wifi and a url, usb or bt? |
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| 12:08.43 | anno^da_ | yeah there was a word but they didnt mention the way you do it |
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| 12:12.22 | Dougie187 | http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/23/t-mobiles-cto-on-g1-unlocking-and-tethering-plus-a-few-detai/ |
| 12:12.27 | Dougie187 | Good news for the unlockers. |
| 12:12.46 | tric | so even if i get one, its prolly no solution for developing |
| 12:13.19 | Dougie187 | Contract free for $400 |
| 12:13.47 | Dougie187 | but you cant unlock with t-mobiles blessing until after 90 days |
| 12:15.03 | tric | you can |
| 12:15.37 | Dougie187 | you can. but not with tmobiles blessing. |
| 12:15.42 | Dougie187 | thats what im saying. |
| 12:15.59 | Dougie187 | so tmobile doesn't want you to unlock it, until 90 days after you buy it. then they don't care what you do with it |
| 12:16.35 | tric | well, actually, i would only need to push a apk on it and use wifi. |
| 12:16.54 | tric | and get (qemu) network settings to work in sdk1 :( |
| 12:17.35 | Dougie187 | i just thought it was cool that they do contract free for 400 |
| 12:17.49 | Dougie187 | and they aren't going to lock it down so you can't unlock it |
| 12:17.57 | Dougie187 | or update the phone so unlock apps break |
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| 12:21.03 | tric | true |
| 12:21.43 | Dougie187 | and they won't lock out tethering either, but that 1gb cap is going to be a pain in the ass |
| 12:24.35 | tric | we need other provider offering more phones ;) |
| 12:25.43 | Dougie187 | it will come. |
| 12:25.51 | Dougie187 | Sprint is supposed to have one by the end of the year as well |
| 12:25.58 | Dougie187 | and they have better data plans than Tmobile. |
| 12:26.10 | Dougie187 | as long as they don't set up a 1Gb cap as well |
| 12:26.23 | tric | hmm, when i try to install a .apk from somewhere, the emu tells me about some settings that installation is blocked. is there a way to unblock it? |
| 12:26.40 | Dougie187 | ionno, im probably not the best person to ask. |
| 12:26.40 | tric | and we need it in .de ;) |
| 12:26.50 | Dougie187 | true, but that will come. |
| 12:26.57 | tric | im asking not only you ;) |
| 12:27.01 | Dougie187 | i know |
| 12:27.10 | Dougie187 | but, it seems like there not many active people in here. |
| 12:27.29 | Dougie187 | the numbers have died down a bit since yesterday |
| 12:27.42 | Dougie187 | almost to normal now. |
| 12:27.50 | zhobbs | it's early too |
| 12:28.04 | Dougie187 | true |
| 12:28.12 | Dougie187 | not many people like to think in the morning |
| 12:29.00 | tric | hehe, its 2pm here ;) |
| 12:29.06 | Dougie187 | yeah its 8:30 am here. |
| 12:29.10 | tric | so not actually morning over here |
| 12:29.18 | Dougie187 | 5:30 on the other coast. |
| 12:29.36 | tric | i dont care, i need support now! ;) |
| 12:29.50 | Dougie187 | lol, well the android people probably wont be in for another 2.5 hours. |
| 12:30.19 | zhobbs | googler's are hung over from the G1 launch |
| 12:30.36 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 12:30.51 | tric | and prolly some party ;) |
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| 12:45.19 | zenob | hello, does anybody know how can i get ScanResult in WifiManager ? |
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| 13:05.07 | tric | dougie187: what do you think about http://blog.wired.com/business/2008/09/three-years-and.html and the NO VoIP thing |
| 13:06.15 | km- | morning |
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| 13:07.08 | Dougie187 | thats too bad. |
| 13:07.24 | km- | wtf? |
| 13:07.27 | pardom | zhobbs: question about that code yesterday |
| 13:07.37 | km- | err. How could they make the phone "not do voip" |
| 13:08.06 | Dougie187 | Maybe they left out that part of the api? |
| 13:08.13 | tric | well. my voip client still works in sdk1.0, native libs still work. |
| 13:08.22 | Dougie187 | ionno. thats weird. |
| 13:08.30 | Dougie187 | isn't 1.0 whats going to be on the phone? |
| 13:08.41 | km- | ok, well, lets stop and evaluate. a voip program uses 1) audio out 2) audio in 3) codecs 4) transmission |
| 13:08.42 | tric | yeah, thats what google is telling us. |
| 13:08.53 | km- | What part could they gimp? |
| 13:09.09 | km- | I mean, the processor is fast enough to render realtime graphics translations, I'm pretty sure ulaw or even gsm would be cake |
| 13:09.10 | tric | audio in and out? ;) |
| 13:09.16 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 13:09.26 | tric | or, hmm, maybe udp! ;) |
| 13:09.31 | km- | hmm |
| 13:09.45 | km- | that is a good point, if they gimped udp that would make voip pretty un-doable. |
| 13:10.31 | km- | tric: you wrote a voip phone already? Are you planning to open source it? If so, can I get a copy? I'd like to see how you implemented it. |
| 13:10.33 | tric | well, no udp would suck big time for streaming any media |
| 13:10.58 | km- | tric: I was planning on writing one for myself since I have asterisk at the house and using android as a wifi extension :) |
| 13:11.26 | tric | km: i wrote no phone, i wrote a crippled voip/sip client, without support for proxy, and only for using some internal libs here for me thesis. and sadly i had to sign a nda and stuff, so i cannot release any info/source |
| 13:11.32 | spykid | I think that some googler said udp will work |
| 13:11.41 | yakischloba | thats a bunch of fucking shit |
| 13:11.43 | km- | tric: oh, what was your thesis on? |
| 13:11.45 | yakischloba | disabling voip isnt 'open' |
| 13:12.01 | km- | yakischloba: T-Mobile is betting that google is smarter than everyone else. |
| 13:12.10 | km- | yakischloba: don't believe that for a second. |
| 13:12.14 | tric | km: im still writing it, and its about "voip quality on android" |
| 13:12.20 | km- | tric: ah, neat. |
| 13:12.35 | Dougie187 | what level thesis? |
| 13:12.48 | km- | yakischloba: there's no quicker way to agitate the deep powers of the internet than for a big multinational corporation going "Nanny Nanny Poo Poo You Can't Do This!" |
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| 13:12.56 | tric | i started using mjSIP, but had to change alot, cause performance sucked big time. 10secs for a simple sip msg roundtrip |
| 13:13.02 | yakischloba | km-, yeah of course |
| 13:13.04 | km- | jesus |
| 13:13.07 | tric | dougie: (german) bachelor |
| 13:13.08 | km- | that is tough |
| 13:13.21 | km- | <--- voip engineer |
| 13:13.25 | tric | hehe. well |
| 13:13.30 | Dougie187 | thats a pretty intense bachelor thesis. |
| 13:13.39 | km- | yeah, I can't wait to see his PhD :P |
| 13:13.45 | Dougie187 | lol if he does one. |
| 13:13.47 | tric | my lib has a 200ms roundtrip now. thats enough for me ;) |
| 13:13.52 | km- | hmm |
| 13:14.01 | km- | roundtrip to a local endpoint? |
| 13:14.03 | tric | i dont think ill ever do a PhD ;) |
| 13:14.05 | tric | yes. |
| 13:14.10 | tric | localhost/emu only. |
| 13:14.11 | km- | how's the jitter? |
| 13:14.20 | km- | oh. emulator. |
| 13:14.25 | km- | I'm sure it'll be faster on native hardware |
| 13:14.30 | tric | pretty bad, but i assume thats some emu fault |
| 13:14.33 | km- | qemu isn't always the fastest. |
| 13:14.42 | tric | me too. but i dont have hw, so i need to use emu ;) |
| 13:14.43 | km- | yeah, I'd wait to see what it does on an actual handset |
| 13:15.12 | km- | once google opens the source to their OS it's over for any protections T-Mobile thinks they've got |
| 13:15.16 | tric | and hw is too late for my thesis. so maybe i gonna play with it a little, but i cannot actually use it |
| 13:15.40 | km- | you might be able to do jitter buffering but something makes me think on the emulator that could be a losing battle |
| 13:16.23 | tric | dougie187: i actually it wasnt intense i think. i had 6 months, and the hardest thing is writing it down on paper ;) |
| 13:16.33 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 13:16.42 | Dougie187 | well, that does sound like a bachelors thesis then. |
| 13:16.43 | tric | hehe. yeah,thats why i dont use a real jitter buffer atm. |
| 13:16.51 | km- | my "dream" of the app I was going to write was to extend the dialer and call classes such that I could pin a voip path into the class instead of just cell audio |
| 13:16.53 | Dougie187 | im working on my masters thesis. |
| 13:17.26 | tric | km: yeah, i dreamed about that aswell. but even the contacts do not support sip info :( |
| 13:17.29 | km- | we'll wait to see the source to see whether that's even possible. |
| 13:17.43 | tric | dougie: whats your thesis on? |
| 13:18.08 | km- | you could extend the contacts class as well I'd imagine. The hard part is making Android use the extended classes instead of the base classes |
| 13:18.08 | Dougie187 | my thesis is going to be comparing finite volume and finite element methods for climate modeling of Greenland. |
| 13:18.18 | tric | and why is writing the text of a masters thesis different to a bachelor? |
| 13:18.28 | km- | Dougie: deep. |
| 13:18.30 | Dougie187 | well i have to do actual work for a masters thesis. |
| 13:18.42 | tric | hey, it was work aswell! |
| 13:18.42 | Dougie187 | for the bachelors i just had to write the paper and babble about it for 10 minutes. |
| 13:19.07 | km- | sounds like tric had to do a fair bit of work here for his bachelors |
| 13:19.14 | Dougie187 | yeah but for bachelors thesis (depending on your school) they don't really care about your results. |
| 13:19.21 | km- | you don't just sneeze on the screen and voip code magically occurs |
| 13:19.35 | tric | well, i have implemented it, writing the paper (prolly near to 80-100 pages) and talk about it 30min. the last part is the easiest i think |
| 13:19.35 | Dougie187 | its kinda just so you can see what research is like. |
| 13:19.44 | Dougie187 | yeah |
| 13:19.49 | Dougie187 | writing the paper takes a long time. |
| 13:19.56 | Dougie187 | doing the work is the fun part though. |
| 13:19.58 | tric | dougie: i do care, i dont advance to master. at least not directly |
| 13:20.17 | Dougie187 | no not you don't care about the results. The school doesn't care about your results. |
| 13:20.21 | Dougie187 | unless they are amazing. |
| 13:20.37 | Dougie187 | (the results) |
| 13:20.38 | tric | km: it was my plan todo some work, cause i dont plan to advance, cause of my age ;) |
| 13:20.48 | Dougie187 | how old are you? |
| 13:20.52 | tric | hehe, 31 |
| 13:20.59 | tric | so im LATE! ;) |
| 13:21.06 | Dougie187 | i have some people older than that in my masters program here. |
| 13:21.44 | tric | but i feel like im late ;) |
| 13:21.44 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 13:21.44 | Dougie187 | there were some 70 year old people in my undergrad classes too |
| 13:21.55 | km- | eh, I only had a year of college |
| 13:22.36 | tric | and, well, my school does care about the result, i need at least a 2 out of 1-6 where 1 is the best to advance to master. |
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| 13:23.03 | Dougie187 | hmm |
| 13:23.03 | Dougie187 | i dont even know what that means. |
| 13:23.03 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 13:23.05 | Dougie187 | 1-6? |
| 13:23.14 | Dougie187 | is that like your grading scale? |
| 13:23.36 | tric | our scale of the results ;) |
| 13:23.51 | Dougie187 | so 1-6 is only for your thesis? |
| 13:24.46 | tric | well, both, for my thesis and one for overall, and i need a 2 overall. but i didnt choose my thesis for a good result. i wanted to do interessting stuff |
| 13:25.08 | tric | and something so ppl will at least impress a little |
| 13:25.09 | Dougie187 | cool |
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| 13:25.28 | tric | err something so ppl will be impressed a little |
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| 13:26.41 | tric | looks my english (writing) sucks today ;) |
| 13:26.51 | Dougie187 | eh it happens. |
| 13:27.03 | Dougie187 | so what do you want to do after you graduate? |
| 13:28.23 | yakischloba | what are YOU going to do dougi? |
| 13:29.13 | tric | dougie: getting money for writing sw and sw design |
| 13:29.15 | Dougie187 | well |
| 13:29.21 | Dougie187 | im going to get my ph.d. after my masters. |
| 13:29.25 | Dougie187 | and then probably a postdoc. |
| 13:29.30 | tric | prolly java/android stuff |
| 13:29.35 | Dougie187 | and then probably work in a national lab or something for a while |
| 13:29.44 | yakischloba | hmm |
| 13:29.48 | tric | actually i would love android stuff, but thats gonna be hard here in .de |
| 13:29.49 | Dougie187 | Sounds like fun. so you want to try to do mobile dev stuff? |
| 13:29.57 | yakischloba | all that edumacation cost a lot of money eh |
| 13:30.07 | Dougie187 | well you can always come to the us. heh |
| 13:30.16 | Dougie187 | yakischloba: naw, i get paid to do it. |
| 13:30.17 | km- | land of fading opportunity |
| 13:30.25 | yakischloba | Dougie187, nice |
| 13:30.35 | Dougie187 | yeah, it makes it easier. |
| 13:30.42 | tric | hehe. i guess my girlfriend wount like that, but well. maybe 1 or 2 years. if someone wants me over there |
| 13:30.45 | km- | last thing we need is more IT people in a contraction |
| 13:31.19 | tric | haha |
| 13:32.36 | tric | is it currently tough to get a IT job over there? |
| 13:32.51 | km- | it really depends who you ask and what region |
| 13:32.58 | yakischloba | and what you want to be doing |
| 13:33.29 | km- | I just got promoted up to R&D at the company I work for, and they're trying to fill my position -- the boss has gotten 50 resumes, lots of them with masters degrees, to do systems administration. |
| 13:33.37 | km- | when the masters degrees come to do nocmonkey, you know it's a tough market. |
| 13:34.42 | tric | whats R&D? |
| 13:35.09 | Dougie187 | Research and Development |
| 13:36.14 | *** join/#android matt_c (n=mcroydon@gozur.sunflowerbroadband.com) |
| 13:36.31 | tric | ic |
| 13:38.17 | *** join/#android dipen (n=fdd001@host-208-68-238-59.biznesshosting.net) |
| 13:38.17 | gambler | km- join #sip-communicator if you want to talk about open source VOIP |
| 13:42.50 | *** join/#android romainguy (n=gfx@170-215-93-83.bras01.mob.ut.frontiernet.net) |
| 13:42.56 | Dougie187 | good morning romainguy |
| 13:43.04 | romainguy | yo |
| 13:43.09 | km- | gambler: thanks, I just might do that. |
| 13:43.53 | Dougie187 | did you guys have a big android party last night romainguy? |
| 13:44.16 | romainguy | I don't know, I'm on vacatiob :) |
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| 13:45.00 | Dougie187 | lolo |
| 13:45.12 | *** part/#android Terdhex (n=ENRIQUE@host-208-68-238-59.biznesshosting.net) |
| 13:45.15 | tric | romainguy: so no emu 1.0 / qemu help from you? -qemu isnt working here |
| 13:45.28 | romainguy | vacation :)) |
| 13:46.04 | tric | but you are here! so no real vacation. ;) |
| 13:46.07 | unix_lappy | is android to work exclusively on HTC devices as per the contract with Tmobile? |
| 13:46.31 | unix_lappy | tric: i think the real test is how many lines of code he's written whilst on vaca. |
| 13:46.40 | DD94300 | Is it possible to replace native application in SDK 1.0? |
| 13:46.53 | romainguy | unix_lappy: no, that would be contrary to the idea of Android |
| 13:47.02 | pjv | DD94300, sure |
| 13:47.29 | pjv | DD94300, all only in java ofcourse |
| 13:47.37 | Dougie187 | unix_lappy: as per the contract with Tmobile? |
| 13:48.10 | unix_lappy | Dougie187: yea i remember hearing the word exclusive in context with HTC and google from Tmobile yesterday. |
| 13:48.24 | Dougie187 | no. |
| 13:48.30 | Dougie187 | They are not the only members of the OHA either. |
| 13:48.41 | Dougie187 | Sprint is getting a phone by the end of the year with android on it too. |
| 13:48.46 | unix_lappy | obviously Android wants to be as ubiquitous as possible, but with this initial launch with Tmobile are we to see only HTC devices. |
| 13:48.47 | Dougie187 | and samsung is making devices. |
| 13:48.57 | tric | unix: prolly the g1 is exclusive to tmobile |
| 13:49.00 | Dougie187 | with the initial launch.. yes |
| 13:49.09 | DD94300 | bez last time i asked this question to Google , they told me that it would be possible in SDK 1.0. |
| 13:49.13 | Dougie187 | the initial launch is only going to bring one phone. |
| 13:49.35 | unix_lappy | heh, I wonder how long I have to wait before I find a handset I actually like :-P |
| 13:49.38 | Dougie187 | but you might be able to use android on other phones.. |
| 13:49.49 | pjv | DD94300, it's not very hard in any SDK: just write your own browser for instance |
| 13:50.01 | DD94300 | i know that |
| 13:50.02 | tric | dd94300: when the source is released, you should be able to replace everything, but i dont know if you should call it android after that ;) |
| 13:50.09 | Dougie187 | hey romainguy: do you have a g1 yet? |
| 13:50.13 | DD94300 | but what about replacing home screen |
| 13:50.27 | pjv | DD94300, the source code of Android might help to know which intents are important (the interfacing) and such though |
| 13:50.48 | DD94300 | which is not yet available, rt? |
| 13:50.52 | pjv | Dougie187, didnt watch the video yet? |
| 13:50.57 | Dougie187 | ? |
| 13:51.01 | Dougie187 | which video?. |
| 13:51.09 | Dougie187 | i've seen a lot of them. |
| 13:51.13 | pjv | of the Android team proposing their small contributions |
| 13:51.18 | romainguy | Dougie187: er... yes? what do you think we've been using for development? |
| 13:51.21 | romainguy | :)) |
| 13:51.35 | Dougie187 | romainguy: something similar to plusminus_'s dev "handset". lol |
| 13:51.46 | romainguy | DD94300: you can replace the home screen easily |
| 13:51.47 | pjv | DD94300, home screen might be a bit difficult but when the code becomes available soon that will change |
| 13:51.52 | pjv | oh |
| 13:52.21 | tric | romainguy: what about the phone and sms apps? |
| 13:52.27 | romainguy | SMS yes |
| 13:52.36 | romainguy | the Phone app, I don't know if you can in 1.0 |
| 13:52.40 | DD94300 | thanks pjv |
| 13:52.53 | romainguy | DD94300: replacing Home is very easy, and there's a sample showing how to do it in the SDK |
| 13:54.09 | pjv | romainguy, the library/bookshelf app you showed, is that much more than a list with a bookshelf background image? |
| 13:54.30 | romainguy | it's a GridView |
| 13:54.40 | DD94300 | romainguy, I have tried that. But in addition, I want to add my application to the home screen as well. |
| 13:54.47 | romainguy | and there's some trickery with scroll listeners and animations |
| 13:55.08 | romainguy | DD94300: what do you mean? all applications show in the home screen |
| 13:56.21 | pjv | romainguy, are you serious about the app or was it just a small prototype? |
| 13:56.32 | romainguy | the bookshelf? |
| 13:56.33 | DD94300 | romainguy, I create my home screen and then I want to register application so they can appear on home screen as well. Currently I am not able to register any mine or native application to the replaced home screen. |
| 13:56.36 | pjv | yes |
| 13:57.00 | romainguy | it's a demo to show how to create fancy looking Android apps with deferred loading, optimized scroll performances, network access, custom image rendering, etc. |
| 13:57.19 | romainguy | (if you look closely you can see shading and lighting applied on the book covers to simulate depth) |
| 13:57.28 | pjv | it's not available anywhere is it? |
| 13:57.38 | romainguy | not right now |
| 13:57.46 | romainguy | I didn't have time to finish it before I left for my vacation |
| 13:58.15 | pjv | but there is a good chance you might open source it? |
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| 13:58.31 | romainguy | pjv: that's the goal, just like Photostream |
| 13:59.09 | romainguy | (or Panoramio or Divide and Conquer, etc.) |
| 13:59.56 | pjv | actually from the video it looked nicely done but not too complicated |
| 14:00.19 | pjv | where did you find the background image? must not have been easy to find anything suitable? |
| 14:00.48 | tric | romainguy: you have any comment about the no voip thing in http://blog.wired.com/business/2008/09/three-years-and.html? whats removed so voip isnt possible? |
| 14:02.00 | romainguy | I don't know anything about VoIP |
| 14:02.12 | romainguy | pjv: I drew the background image |
| 14:03.34 | tric | hmm, so you dont know anything about things that were removed for voip. no news are good news ;) |
| 14:04.09 | pjv | I'm actually in the inception phase of a similar (open source) app |
| 14:04.12 | Dougie187 | tric: even if he did, i would assume he wouldn't be able to tell you what was removed. that would make it easy to look for what to implement when it was open sourced. |
| 14:04.29 | pjv | so it came a bit as a surprise to see something like that |
| 14:04.57 | tric | dougie: well, i will be easy anyway. problem is that you would have to flash a new fw |
| 14:05.01 | pjv | a bit broader than a collection for only books though |
| 14:05.51 | Dougie187 | tric: true, but i would think they wouldn't be able to assist in the process. |
| 14:06.01 | tric | true |
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| 14:07.26 | scatterp | where can i get the g1 android rom? |
| 14:10.50 | ulmen | on the flash module inside the g1, butt odds are you don't have one so then the answer is nowhere =) |
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| 14:13.55 | gambler | pjv tell us about it |
| 14:14.09 | DD94300 | Is android.provider.Telephony package has been removed from new SDK? |
| 14:15.31 | pjv | gambler, you interested in an open source project? |
| 14:16.30 | gambler | pjv, join #sip-communicator ...the most people in there in awhile |
| 14:17.00 | pjv | just a sec |
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| 14:22.31 | summatusmentis | ulmen: what does the emulator boot from? |
| 14:24.11 | ulmen | summatusmentis: kernel, ramdisk image, system image |
| 14:24.48 | ulmen | and i'd bet the files on theese images are not identical with the ones on the real phone |
| 14:25.05 | ulmen | like some are missing, some are changed, some are extra |
| 14:26.20 | summatusmentis | ulmen: I assumed they wouldn't be the same on the phone. |
| 14:26.42 | summatusmentis | but if you just want something to base stuff off of, the emulator might get somone what they wanted |
| 14:27.44 | ulmen | but it still does not make the emulator the "g1 android rom", which is what he asked for |
| 14:28.12 | summatusmentis | ulmen: oh, that's true |
| 14:29.02 | scatterp | ulmen where can i get the emulator ? |
| 14:29.45 | ulmen | http://code.google.com/android/ |
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| 14:30.00 | jasta | hey Dougie187 |
| 14:30.03 | Dougie187 | hey jasta |
| 14:30.05 | Dougie187 | hows it going/. |
| 14:30.17 | Dougie187 | you see the $400 for a contract free g1? |
| 14:30.19 | jasta | pretty ok, just getting ready for work |
| 14:30.39 | jasta | i had heard something about that but i wasnt sure if that was official news or just some junk someone made up |
| 14:30.44 | Dougie187 | one sec. |
| 14:30.47 | Dougie187 | ill grab the link |
| 14:31.25 | Dougie187 | http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/23/t-mobiles-cto-on-g1-unlocking-and-tethering-plus-a-few-detai/ |
| 14:32.24 | jasta | oh yes, if this is true, i am quite excited. although i need ot know what UMTS frequencies it supports |
| 14:32.33 | jasta | i dont want to take an unlocked phone over to AT&T if 3G won't work :) |
| 14:33.08 | Dougie187 | heh true. |
| 14:33.14 | Dougie187 | but i thought it was pretty cool sounding. |
| 14:33.17 | zhobbs | I heard it won't work on att 3g |
| 14:33.31 | Dougie187 | unlocking and tethering won't be destroyed. |
| 14:33.34 | ulmen | spec tells 1700 + 2100 MHz |
| 14:33.35 | summatusmentis | jasta: there was something that said what UMTS frequencies it was using, but I don't recall them |
| 14:33.44 | ulmen | http://www.htc.com/www/product/g1/specification.html |
| 14:34.51 | jasta | well yeah, so there's that. |
| 14:35.05 | jasta | guess i'll have to join t-mobile then. piece of crap. |
| 14:35.15 | zhobbs | think that's a hardware thing, or firmware thing? |
| 14:35.22 | Dougie187 | or something else. |
| 14:35.39 | Dougie187 | are any other carriers in that range? |
| 14:35.45 | summatusmentis | zhobbs: generally hardware? I would think? |
| 14:35.53 | summatusmentis | probably directly modem related |
| 14:36.17 | jasta | Dougie187: not in the US. although GSM/EDGE would work on the phone with ATG&T |
| 14:36.18 | jasta | AT&T |
| 14:36.44 | yakischloba | :( |
| 14:36.47 | jasta | i'm still in the middle of a flippin contract with AT&T hehe |
| 14:37.18 | yakischloba | anyone transferred numbers between US carriers? is it a PITA?.. |
| 14:37.18 | jasta | you know what's bollocks? all these people are gonna sign up for AT&T to get the first android device, then before their contract is up sprint is gonna get the second device |
| 14:37.29 | jasta | and so everyone will have to pay the massive fine to jump ship to sprint |
| 14:37.39 | summatusmentis | jasta: I'm just waiting till Sprint gets it |
| 14:37.40 | summatusmentis | :) |
| 14:37.42 | jasta | what a racket! |
| 14:37.52 | jasta | yakischloba: its pretty easy. |
| 14:37.55 | summatusmentis | yakischloba: it's supposed to be easy... I don't actually know though |
| 14:38.01 | yakischloba | whats involved? |
| 14:38.03 | Dougie187 | me too |
| 14:38.09 | zhobbs | yakischloba: a form and a few days |
| 14:38.14 | yakischloba | oh. not bad. |
| 14:38.16 | jasta | yakischloba: submitting some paperwork and waiting a while |
| 14:38.17 | summatusmentis | you tell your company that you want to port, and they do it :) |
| 14:40.49 | Dougie187 | i wonder what sprint's android phone is gonna look like. |
| 14:41.15 | spykid | xdd |
| 14:41.44 | yakischloba | damn grocery store was closed this morning |
| 14:41.54 | yakischloba | not only am i hungry, im falling asleep without any caffeine |
| 14:42.44 | jasta | wow. i just compared side-by-side some specs of this G1 phone |
| 14:42.51 | jasta | it has *worse* battery life than my bad MOTO Q9H |
| 14:42.57 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 14:43.03 | yakischloba | no surprise there :/ |
| 14:43.05 | Dougie187 | 5 talk time and 130 standby. |
| 14:43.09 | Dougie187 | right? |
| 14:43.12 | jasta | i have to charge my Q9H every flippin day or it dies |
| 14:43.19 | jasta | i guess android will be no different |
| 14:43.35 | Dougie187 | and once you throw on a few poorly crafted apps its going to die like crazy |
| 14:43.47 | summatusmentis | Dougie187: I'm hoping it'll be better spec'd than the G1 |
| 14:44.28 | jasta | argh, its heavier, too. |
| 14:44.28 | Dougie187 | I heard it was supposed to have more features. |
| 14:44.49 | summatusmentis | Dougie187: 'more features' meaning what? |
| 14:44.52 | Dougie187 | ionno |
| 14:44.57 | Dougie187 | it was a very vague. |
| 14:45.00 | Dougie187 | report* |
| 14:45.10 | zhobbs | hmmm, jad isn't working with new sdk |
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| 14:45.15 | summatusmentis | yeh, I haven't heard anything about Sprint's Android offering |
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| 14:45.29 | Dougie187 | me either. just that its supposed to be out by the end of the year. |
| 14:45.37 | Dougie187 | and the phone will have more features then the tmobile one. |
| 14:46.22 | summatusmentis | which I'm ok with. I wonder what full pricing will be (just signed up with Sprint in June, will need to buy it full price) |
| 14:46.32 | Dougie187 | did you get on the Sero plan? |
| 14:46.52 | summatusmentis | I did, like a week before it ended |
| 14:47.00 | Dougie187 | nice. |
| 14:47.06 | Dougie187 | its pretty sweet |
| 14:47.36 | summatusmentis | it is, and perfect for a college student |
| 14:47.42 | Dougie187 | hell yeah |
| 14:47.43 | summatusmentis | I bought a centro though :( |
| 14:47.52 | Dougie187 | or a married couple like my wife and i. |
| 14:48.06 | Dougie187 | its soooo cheap. |
| 14:48.10 | summatusmentis | well, it's perfect for anyone, but yeah |
| 14:48.22 | summatusmentis | I'm not happy with my centro, it's kinda contrained |
| 14:48.23 | Dougie187 | im hoping they don't have a plan restriction with the android phone, |
| 14:48.26 | Dougie187 | but im sure they will |
| 14:48.54 | jasta | you know what confuses me... |
| 14:49.05 | Dougie187 | whats that? |
| 14:49.08 | summatusmentis | Dougie187: why would they, they don't for the HTC Touch Diamond |
| 14:49.13 | jasta | google keeps making mention that they've made major strides by convincing the carriers and the like that openness is really good for them in the long run |
| 14:49.27 | jasta | but if its this major revolutionary challenge, how exactly did Microsoft do it so easily with Windows Mobile? |
| 14:49.31 | Dougie187 | summatusmentis: yeah they do. its not as strict as the instinct, but they have plan requirements. |
| 14:49.34 | jasta | Windows Mobile is exactly as open as Android is currently. |
| 14:49.58 | jasta | except of course that you need non-free tools to development for it. |
| 14:49.59 | summatusmentis | jasta: don't you have to buy the WinMo SDK? |
| 14:50.10 | jasta | but from the carrier's perspective, it's all the same. |
| 14:50.29 | summatusmentis | maybe from the carrier's perspective, but the OS itself is more open on Android |
| 14:50.37 | jasta | summatusmentis: how so? |
| 14:51.07 | summatusmentis | jasta: good luck getting drivers to the hardware of a WinMo phone |
| 14:51.10 | Dougie187 | summatusmentis: HTC Diamond Mail in rebate "requires an Everything plan, Talk/Message/Data Share plan, Data Premier add-on or PRO Pack add-on." |
| 14:51.22 | jasta | summatusmentis: right but that openness has nothing to do with convincing carriers. |
| 14:51.44 | summatusmentis | Dougie187: right, but they're not restricting all out purchases to new plans, you can put it on a SERO plan |
| 14:51.44 | jasta | summatusmentis: the carriers apprehension must come from consumers being able to do "whatever they want" with devices, and for that fear Windows Mobile can already do it. |
| 14:52.08 | summatusmentis | jasta: it does, carriers are VERY closed about the hardware capabilities |
| 14:52.17 | Dougie187 | summatusmentis: true. i just hope the mail in rebate doesnt make you switch to the new stupid sero plan. |
| 14:52.31 | summatusmentis | Dougie187: I'm in a contract, won't matter for me :) |
| 14:52.38 | Dougie187 | im out of one. |
| 14:52.46 | Dougie187 | been waiting for an andorid phone to get a new contract. |
| 14:52.57 | Dougie187 | s/andorid/android/g |
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| 14:53.04 | summatusmentis | even the new SERO plan might be ok, $50 vs $30 |
| 14:53.12 | Dougie187 | its 60 |
| 14:53.25 | Dougie187 | its twice as much for the same plan. |
| 14:53.31 | Dougie187 | but you get black berry stuff added into it |
| 14:53.41 | summatusmentis | it's 60? |
| 14:53.46 | Dougie187 | yeah |
| 14:53.48 | Dougie187 | http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/expired-deals/680568 |
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| 14:54.21 | summatusmentis | oh, $59.99, that's why I got confused |
| 14:54.51 | Dougie187 | yeah |
| 14:55.13 | Dougie187 | i guess its cheaper then if you have a BB device before. |
| 14:55.24 | Dougie187 | but its stupid to make everyone pay for BB services even if you don't have a BB |
| 14:55.24 | summatusmentis | probably |
| 14:55.37 | summatusmentis | and it you care about Sprint TV or Navigation |
| 14:55.40 | Dougie187 | BB services were 40 bucks before. so if you have a sero plan and a BB it was 70 bucks |
| 14:55.48 | Dougie187 | true |
| 14:56.37 | summatusmentis | but yeah, now that we're wildly OT :) |
| 14:57.11 | Dougie187 | im excited to see the sprint android phone though |
| 14:57.32 | summatusmentis | me too, I wish there were more rumors |
| 14:57.32 | Dougie187 | im half afraid its not going to be a touch screen though... |
| 14:58.07 | Dougie187 | this is the last thing i read about it |
| 14:58.07 | Dougie187 | http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/17/t-mobile-g1-said-to-be-landing-october-17th-sprint-android-phon/ |
| 14:58.38 | Dougie187 | i misread "other functionality" for "more features" |
| 14:58.47 | summatusmentis | yeah, I saw that on BGR |
| 14:59.00 | summatusmentis | I want touchscreen... I _need_ touchscreen |
| 14:59.10 | Dougie187 | i want a touch screen too. |
| 14:59.19 | jasta | is having a hard time figuring out what to do |
| 14:59.19 | Dougie187 | maybe it will be a kick ass multi touch phone. |
| 14:59.24 | jasta | im in the middle of an AT&T contract hehe |
| 14:59.29 | Dougie187 | when does it end jasta? |
| 14:59.37 | jasta | like 4 or 5 months |
| 14:59.39 | summatusmentis | multi-touch? Doesn't apple have that patent? |
| 14:59.46 | jasta | but really, i dont want to cancel it. i have a life-time 15% discount on my account |
| 14:59.49 | jasta | which i'd lose :( |
| 14:59.50 | Dougie187 | id say wait and see what the sprint phone looks like. |
| 15:00.00 | Dougie187 | personally. |
| 15:00.05 | Dougie187 | especially since you don;t like the way this one looks. |
| 15:00.10 | summatusmentis | jasta: can you get the G1 withouth data? |
| 15:00.23 | jasta | why would you want to do that? |
| 15:00.27 | summatusmentis | because if you just want one to play with, you could maybe get a flex-pay plan for it |
| 15:00.40 | jasta | i doubt you can do that, besides that would be silly anyway |
| 15:00.58 | jasta | i might just buy it and pay for two phone plans for a while |
| 15:01.00 | Dougie187 | jasta: i would wait and look at sprints. the 1GB cap on tmo is killer. |
| 15:01.30 | yakischloba | it will be interesting to see how fast you go through bandwidth under normal usage, without things like downloading media |
| 15:01.41 | yakischloba | i guess some of the premise is that downloading media _IS_ normal usage |
| 15:01.41 | Dougie187 | you probably wouldn't. |
| 15:01.46 | yakischloba | but I won't be using it for that |
| 15:01.49 | Dougie187 | i would think if you tethered though.. |
| 15:01.56 | yakischloba | oh of course. |
| 15:02.09 | *** join/#android gary| (n=gary@93-96-140-104.zone4.bethere.co.uk) |
| 15:02.10 | Dougie187 | people are gonna tether and bittorrent. |
| 15:02.10 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 15:02.38 | gary| | hey, when making a gui for an android app, are there methods in the SDK for that or do we use the java methods? |
| 15:02.48 | yakischloba | lol? |
| 15:03.00 | jasta | gary|: come again? |
| 15:03.18 | yakischloba | gary|: i suggest even glancing at some documentation about it |
| 15:03.28 | gary| | for GUI stuff, like buttons, boxes, etc, are there methods in the SDK for that, or do we use the java built in methods? |
| 15:03.34 | gary| | yakischloba: I did |
| 15:03.52 | *** join/#android cbeust_ (n=cbeust@72.14.224.1) |
| 15:04.09 | jasta | gary|: we don't understand what you mean by "methods in the SDK" |
| 15:04.16 | Dougie187 | did you even look at the api? |
| 15:04.24 | gary| | yes... |
| 15:04.28 | Dougie187 | or even play with the dev tools in the emulator? |
| 15:04.46 | jasta | or for that matter, i don't know what you mean by "java built in methods" |
| 15:04.46 | gary| | yes, but only the basic ones |
| 15:04.50 | gary| | ... |
| 15:04.51 | yakischloba | then you would see that just about everything you use to create GUI stuff is included in the SDK |
| 15:05.03 | gary| | thank you, thats all i needed to hear |
| 15:07.07 | Dougie187 | i love the whole syncing thing in the G1 too |
| 15:07.13 | Dougie187 | thats gonna kick ass |
| 15:07.13 | yakischloba | eh? |
| 15:07.18 | yakischloba | what syncing |
| 15:07.20 | Dougie187 | how it syncs all your contacts and stuff |
| 15:07.24 | Dougie187 | and your calendar |
| 15:07.28 | yakischloba | oh, you mean to google services |
| 15:07.29 | yakischloba | yeah |
| 15:07.45 | Dougie187 | its going to be awesome. |
| 15:07.50 | Dougie187 | and push gmail is going to be sweet too |
| 15:09.00 | summatusmentis | Push gmail happens now |
| 15:09.20 | summatusmentis | and I'll bet the calendar is just a CalDAV client |
| 15:09.45 | summatusmentis | syncing contacts/push gmail can happen now, if you're using the right client |
| 15:10.08 | summatusmentis | gets "push" gmail on his centro, it's just IMAP IDLE |
| 15:10.17 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 15:10.21 | ulmen | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:10.22 | Dougie187 | but this way it comes in it. |
| 15:10.23 | yakischloba | summatusmentis: i think the point is that it will be nice to have it integrated smoothly into the phone, for those of us that enjoy google services |
| 15:10.49 | Dougie187 | and i for one, and one of the many people who enjoy google services. |
| 15:10.50 | summatusmentis | yakischloba: I definitely agree. I guess my point is you can do it on other phones |
| 15:11.03 | summatusmentis | I definitely agree, I wish my centor had a gmail app |
| 15:11.05 | summatusmentis | centro* |
| 15:11.08 | yakischloba | yeah of course. these things are not revolutionary technologies in and of themselves ;) |
| 15:11.45 | summatusmentis | and I have been looking for OTA calendar syncing |
| 15:12.00 | summatusmentis | I'm currently faking it using CalDAV -> iCal, then hotsync to centro :) |
| 15:12.02 | wastrel | i have my own domain name and domain email |
| 15:12.18 | yakischloba | I might actually start using the calendar if its on the g1 |
| 15:12.21 | wastrel | and my own email server |
| 15:12.32 | wastrel | i want to use my own email :/ |
| 15:12.39 | yakischloba | do it! |
| 15:12.45 | summatusmentis | yakischloba: google calendar is better than a stupid enterprise oracle calenar that my school provides |
| 15:13.00 | yakischloba | heh |
| 15:13.02 | yakischloba | most calendars suck |
| 15:13.21 | summatusmentis | yes |
| 15:13.29 | Dougie187 | can't you use your own domain and email server with gmail? |
| 15:13.39 | yakischloba | Dougie187, yeah |
| 15:13.52 | Dougie187 | thats what i thought. |
| 15:14.07 | Dougie187 | i was arguing someone yesterday who didn't like the lack of exchange support |
| 15:14.10 | yakischloba | I did it at my last job. I just used their servers though |
| 15:14.13 | yakischloba | it worked pretty smooth |
| 15:14.22 | Dougie187 | and i said it would be easy to set it up if you were an experienced sys admin |
| 15:14.33 | summatusmentis | I think the issue is that exchange is the industry standard |
| 15:14.42 | Dougie187 | but it sucks. |
| 15:14.43 | summatusmentis | and so they won't want to have to change infrastructure |
| 15:15.22 | summatusmentis | granted, doesn't mean people will change |
| 15:15.41 | Dougie187 | true, but this is such a better option, in my opinion. |
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| 15:16.12 | summatusmentis | the idea of google having all of my information scares me in a big-brother sort of way, but I agree, it's a good option |
| 15:16.21 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 15:18.21 | wastrel | i'd have to move my domain to google and host my email there |
| 15:18.38 | wastrel | or so i thought |
| 15:18.45 | Dougie187 | i dont think you would need to.. |
| 15:18.50 | Dougie187 | i think there are ways around that. |
| 15:19.56 | km- | I think I've changed my mind |
| 15:20.01 | km- | going to wait for the javelin or the bold |
| 15:20.43 | summatusmentis | km-: they won't have android... </singsong voice that makes you feel bad about your decision) |
| 15:20.48 | summatusmentis | s/)/>/ |
| 15:21.13 | km- | See, the thing is, I'm really annoyed about this "we're going to not allow voip" |
| 15:21.31 | unix_lappy | km-: i think the android platform is fine, i think google is having to deal with traditional telecom nonsense. |
| 15:21.55 | summatusmentis | km-: I guess I don't understand why voip is a big deal... you'll need to have a voice plan right? |
| 15:21.56 | km- | I was extremely happy with the idea of android until I heard about all this bullshit. |
| 15:21.59 | unix_lappy | devices that are sub par paired with restricted services that dont make use of the devices / platforms functionality. |
| 15:22.04 | km- | summa, the problem isn't voip per se |
| 15:22.12 | km- | it's the fact that they're touting "open" and then closing it. |
| 15:22.31 | km- | Ooh, Wow, look at our *OPEN* phone (small print: you can't do everything you want with it, so it's not really open) |
| 15:22.47 | summatusmentis | km-: are they actually saying "no voip" or are they saying "no voip _right now_" (as in, developers, make it happen0 |
| 15:22.56 | unix_lappy | km-: it's not an "open" device. |
| 15:23.02 | Dougie187 | its not even official though |
| 15:23.03 | unix_lappy | it's an open platform that runs on mobile devices. |
| 15:23.04 | km- | they're saying T-Mobile is specifically requiring them to disallow voip |
| 15:23.07 | Dougie187 | noone official said "No Voip" |
| 15:23.24 | km- | dougie: that goes against what I read this morning, let me find where I read it again |
| 15:23.27 | summatusmentis | Dougie187: they did say "no skype" |
| 15:23.44 | summatusmentis | also, TMob's 3G is very very new |
| 15:23.46 | Dougie187 | all i say about no skype was some unofficial blog post. |
| 15:23.50 | km- | When I talked to Cole Brodman, the CTO of T-Mobile, after the event about what would stop something like Skype from designing a program that could run on the phone, negating the need for a massive voice plan, he said he had "worked with Google" to make sure Android couldn't run VOIP. "We want to be open in a way that consumers can rely on," is the way Brodman put it to me. |
| 15:23.56 | km- | (via wired) |
| 15:24.21 | km- | unix_lappy: well, it's not the hardware that's blocking voip. |
| 15:24.26 | km- | unix_lappy: it's the software on that device. |
| 15:24.27 | swetland | nor the software |
| 15:24.43 | km- | this quote specifically says "to make sure Android couldn't run VOIP" |
| 15:24.43 | swetland | there's no magic anti-voip technology in 1.0 |
| 15:24.49 | Dougie187 | but that is something (as trig mentioned) that people can implement after it is opened. |
| 15:24.58 | swetland | not exactly sure what mr brodman was talking about there |
| 15:25.19 | km- | swetland: so you can speak authoritatively on googles plans? |
| 15:26.00 | km- | I mean, it's all heresay here, but this is bad fucking press for you guys if there aren't corrections to some of these rumors now. It's past the time to be cagey, the announcement is made, and people are choosing sides |
| 15:26.25 | yakischloba | lol |
| 15:26.54 | swetland | km: I'm sure things'll get straightened out. I certainly am not a google spokesperson, but I can tell you that the 1.0 software does not have anything in it specifically to prevent VOIP |
| 15:27.21 | km- | I'm not trying to be a jerk, I just know that I'm very encouraged by android, but it's got to be what it claims it will be for me to leave a proven platform |
| 15:27.57 | swetland | I certainly understand your concerns |
| 15:28.37 | summatusmentis | checks to see if google is still hiring 'mobile software engineers' |
| 15:28.43 | km- | take heart in the fact at least that I'm now on my 5th blackberry and am thinking of pre-ordering, but I'm spooked by what sounds like hype-retraction. |
| 15:30.44 | summatusmentis | I've got a friend all excited about the Blackberry Storm(or whatever) coming out soonish |
| 15:31.30 | *** part/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@wg-d232053.dsl.fsu.edu) |
| 15:31.52 | km- | eh, I'm not too impressed with what I hear about the storm so far |
| 15:31.58 | km- | but I would definitely get a bold, hands down |
| 15:32.06 | km- | almost considered buying one from europe to get one |
| 15:32.50 | summatusmentis | I'm almost considering dropping out of school to apply to work at Google :-p |
| 15:33.07 | jeffb | continue your education. :P |
| 15:33.10 | jasta | drop out to *apply*? |
| 15:33.14 | jasta | that's a bold move ;) |
| 15:33.21 | summatusmentis | jasta: touche |
| 15:33.22 | cbeust_ | summatusmentis: that would be a terrible idea |
| 15:33.32 | summatusmentis | I'd probably apply, then drop out :-P |
| 15:33.37 | summatusmentis | cbeust_: I know, mostly a joke |
| 15:33.49 | cbeust_ | Stay in school, try to get an internship, but finish your educatino |
| 15:33.55 | summatusmentis | my summer of code project got me all excited though |
| 15:33.58 | cbeust_ | Ok good to hear |
| 15:34.22 | cbeust_ | We're always happy to get enthusiastic candidates, but dropping out of school won't get you much sympathy here :) |
| 15:34.34 | jeffb | i have a SoC shirt somewhere, its about 5 sizes too small :P |
| 15:34.47 | jasta | has a skateboarding android shirt somewhere :) |
| 15:34.52 | summatusmentis | cbeust_: :-D |
| 15:35.08 | jeffb | haha jasta, that's a fun one :) |
| 15:35.15 | summatusmentis | jeffb: unless I start gaining enormous amounts of weight, I don't expect to be growing anymore :-P |
| 15:35.49 | jeffb | summatusmentis: i think its a small, which was then washed in hot water so it shrunk to toddler sizes :P |
| 15:35.57 | summatusmentis | oh god :) |
| 15:36.12 | summatusmentis | cbeust_: yeah, I'm on the list to be notified of internships :) |
| 15:38.16 | cbeust_ | Good, internships are a good way toward getting a job, we do conversions all the time |
| 15:39.01 | summatusmentis | you're an engineer? |
| 15:39.20 | cbeust_ | Yes |
| 15:39.27 | summatusmentis | cool cool |
| 15:40.07 | DD94300 | when using service, does onCreate() always creates new process? |
| 15:41.04 | cbeust_ | It never does, it just gets called when the service is created. |
| 15:41.04 | zhobbs | DD94300: depends if it's a remote or local service I think |
| 15:41.23 | zhobbs | remote services actually run in a different process |
| 15:41.58 | swetland | cbeust: I think that's one of our big hiring defects -- the obsession with degrees ^^ |
| 15:42.33 | cbeust_ | swetland: I haven't seen this obsession at all |
| 15:42.36 | swetland | but I will agree that practical experience (internships, real world projects, etc) are highly valuable |
| 15:43.03 | unix_lappy | heh, in a company where the "two" founders dropped out of their Ph.D programs.... |
| 15:43.04 | summatusmentis | swetland: I tend to agree that getting a degree is a good thing, if only because it opens doors to things like real world projects, internshipts, etc. |
| 15:43.28 | DD94300 | i still very confuse about onCreate and onStart when talking about service, can somebody give me some highlights? |
| 15:43.37 | swetland | oh I don't advise dropping out. lots to learn. |
| 15:44.21 | swetland | just saying that I think google perhaps puts a bit more weight on it than most places I've worked for |
| 15:44.24 | summatusmentis | swetland: so whnen I apply for the internship, I'll let you know so you can put in a good word, ok? :-P (I kid) |
| 15:44.46 | unix_lappy | swetland: good thing google isnt the only place to work for. |
| 15:44.52 | jasta | summatusmentis: i think first of all you should consider whether or not you're even an interesting or useful candidate. are you? :) |
| 15:44.59 | unix_lappy | work at... |
| 15:45.16 | summatusmentis | jasta: someone picked me for GSoC, I must have some hidden talent that others see |
| 15:45.48 | jasta | DD94300: i can help, what specifically are you trying to understand? |
| 15:46.00 | summatusmentis | jasta: honestly, I don't consider myself that skilled, wasn't expecting in any way to get a SoC project, but hey! |
| 15:46.32 | jasta | well, to be awarded as SoC project you simply must write well and have good ideas. not necessarily be a capable engineer :) |
| 15:47.04 | summatusmentis | haha, true |
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| 15:53.37 | DD94300 | jasta, I am trying to understand difference between onCreate and onStart .... |
| 15:54.23 | Cedric2 | DD94300: it's clearly explained in the Life Cycle doc |
| 15:54.33 | unix_lappy | lol, i believe he means write code well. |
| 15:54.38 | Cedric2 | Well, it's explained, I hope it's clear :) |
| 15:55.17 | jasonchen | DD94300: http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/app/Service.html covers Service life cycle |
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| 15:58.14 | DD94300 | i been through the document, according to my understanding, whenever new service is started OnStart and OnCreate method are called no matter what. Am i right? |
| 15:58.36 | jasta | no. |
| 15:58.47 | jasta | a service can be started more than once during its lifetime, but it can be created only once. |
| 15:59.14 | jasta | onCreate will be called always prior to the first invocation of onStart. subsequently, any number of onStarts may be called to match the number of calls to startService() that have been made elsewhere. |
| 15:59.45 | jasta | most sophisticated services can ignore onStart() and simply tie their start/stop state to the interface they implement through AIDL |
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| 16:02.48 | DD94300 | thanks, jasta. It will make sense slowly after some coding practice |
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| 16:05.29 | jeffb | BENLEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY |
| 16:05.35 | benley | U R DONG |
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| 16:19.44 | km- | heh, the freaking dns servers at my work resolve blogspot.com to 127.0.0.1 |
| 16:19.46 | km- | bastards! |
| 16:21.39 | summatusmentis | hah, have you tried wordpress? I've wondered about switching to blogspot |
| 16:21.53 | km- | I have a blog on blogspot |
| 16:22.01 | km- | I've been reasonably happy with it. |
| 16:22.08 | km- | although I haven't posted for like a year now |
| 16:22.23 | km- | I intended to document some of the weirder projects I was working on and it sorta stopped when I ran out of fun projects to hack on. |
| 16:25.21 | summatusmentis | mm |
| 16:25.39 | summatusmentis | I guess it doesn't really matter that much which one you use |
| 16:25.47 | summatusmentis | blogspot allows for editing of your theme though |
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| 16:43.28 | zhobbs | seems like maxLines="1" in an EditText means you shouldn't be able to hit enter and enter multiple lines...but guess that's really how many lines are shown |
| 16:44.59 | anno^da_ | Someone here from Google that can tell me if the Market Store will be open for global developers at the beginning or just for the US ones? |
| 16:45.50 | pjv | what kind of question is that? what's the difference between US and non-US devs? |
| 16:47.03 | zhobbs | I saw hackbod say on the mailing lists that no apps should be on the market that haven't been tested on the device :) |
| 16:47.46 | zhobbs | ahhh, android:singleLine="true" |
| 16:47.53 | anno^da_ | pjv: Well if we talk about paid apps there are differences in payment from country to country. |
| 16:48.59 | anno^da_ | I know at the beginning we will have no paid apps but after they are available as well it would be interesting how the payment: consumer -> Google -> dev will be handled. Or not ? :-) |
| 16:49.22 | pjv | hmm ok, seems like a practical question |
| 16:49.44 | pjv | but there is paypal ofcourse |
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| 16:51.11 | anno^da_ | yeah sure. Just thought about the billing and how that will be handled with the taxes etc. That's probably different in every country. |
| 16:55.34 | SanMehat | morning |
| 16:58.25 | km- | sup san |
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| 17:03.44 | tmccrary | Does anyone know if the HTC G1 has hardware 3d support? |
| 17:07.59 | ulmen | "As part of its work with the OHA, Qualcomm has optimized the Android software by integrating it with Qualcomm's MSM7201A-a single chip, dual-core solution that combines high-speed processing, hardware-accelerated multimedia capabilities, 3D graphics and built-in, multi-mode 3G mobile broadband connectivity for an optimal wireless experience." |
| 17:08.11 | wastrel | what's that mean in english? |
| 17:08.36 | tmccrary | ulmen: thanks, where did you find that? |
| 17:08.52 | ulmen | http://www.qualcomm.com/news/releases/2008/080923_T-Mobile_G1_to_Run_on_Qualcomms_Advanced_Dual-Core_Chipset.html |
| 17:09.22 | tmccrary | ah, I searched for the processor specs but couldn't find anything about 3d |
| 17:09.25 | tmccrary | thanks again, this is great news! |
| 17:10.03 | ulmen | i can't really translate that to "has hardware 3d", but i think this is what it means ... but just guessing |
| 17:10.21 | tmccrary | yeah it sounds like it and the HTC Touch Pro has a lot of 3d stuff going on |
| 17:10.27 | tmccrary | it uses the same processor I believe |
| 17:10.56 | tmccrary | I'll be happy if its more powerful than a nintendo ds |
| 17:11.03 | tmccrary | which isn't asking for too much |
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| 17:14.19 | *** part/#android lockwood (n=lockwood@74.125.60.1) |
| 17:17.48 | anno^da_ | The first blog that was able to take good quality pictures of the G1: http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/09/photo-gallery-g.html |
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| 17:20.35 | *** join/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@wg-d232053.dsl.fsu.edu) |
| 17:21.07 | anno^da_ | ""We want to be open in a way that consumers can rely on," T-Mobile CTO Cole Brodman told Wired's Daniel Roth. Translation: We don't really want to be open." <- great one from wired.com :D |
| 17:21.34 | tmccrary | cellphone corporate types are such douche bags |
| 17:21.36 | Dougie187 | yeah its been going around all morning |
| 17:21.42 | tmccrary | even worse than most others |
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| 17:22.49 | jasta | hmm? |
| 17:24.49 | anno^da_ | It also lacks movie playback capabilities... <- I read that sentence in every news now. Why the hell did they leave out the video app and left it in the market store? |
| 17:25.13 | Dougie187 | because maybe some people don't want to watch videos on their phone. |
| 17:25.44 | wastrel | i don't generally care about videos on my phone |
| 17:25.44 | *** join/#android ken_ (n=user@84.92.70.37) |
| 17:25.55 | anno^da_ | Well some people :-) |
| 17:26.25 | anno^da_ | But I would say 90% of the normal consumers search for that feature. Especially on such a phone. |
| 17:27.51 | gdsx | anno^da_: fwiw, I'm not really a fan of the wired blog photos -- they were taken with a quality camera/lens, but it looks like the person shooting didn't really know what they were doing |
| 17:28.30 | ulmen | the only people i ever saw watching video on their phones were teenagers/children trying to impress each other |
| 17:28.55 | jasta | the real issue of course is that the battery can't stand up to that punishment |
| 17:29.07 | yakischloba | probably a big player in why it wasn't included |
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| 17:29.13 | anno^da_ | gdsx: Well but show me one better picture in the blog/news phere. |
| 17:29.13 | yakischloba | (jastas comment) |
| 17:30.11 | ulmen | flickr has some nice pictures. nice in terms of 1726 x 1407 |
| 17:30.14 | gdsx | anno^da_: I'm not saying there are/aren't better photos out there, just that the photos on the wired blog are "ok" |
| 17:30.22 | anno^da_ | ok :-) |
| 17:31.06 | wastrel | battery life is important |
| 17:31.18 | benley | mossberg has a huge photo with a terrible fake screenshot glued into it |
| 17:31.31 | gdsx | haha, yeah |
| 17:31.50 | anno^da_ | Yeah I saw that one :-) |
| 17:31.51 | gdsx | I wonder how hard it'd be to port Luna :oP |
| 17:31.53 | benley | http://mossblog.allthingsd.com/files/2008/09/android-open.jpg |
| 17:32.06 | benley | luna? |
| 17:32.23 | gdsx | benley: code name for the Vista UI, iirc |
| 17:32.26 | benley | oh, yuck |
| 17:32.30 | benley | stays far far away |
| 17:32.37 | gdsx | I love throwing bad ideas out into the wild :o) |
| 17:33.01 | tmccrary | the HTC Touch Pro resembles the G1 and uses a horrible microsoft os :) |
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| 17:34.41 | summatusmentis | no, vista UI is aero |
| 17:34.46 | summatusmentis | luna is XP UI, iirc |
| 17:35.04 | Cedric2 | Luna is the name of my dog! |
| 17:35.11 | Cedric2 | is calling his lawyers |
| 17:35.36 | summatusmentis | how old is your dog? |
| 17:36.17 | Cedric2 | 1 year, but I'll pretend she's 12 years old |
| 17:36.21 | Cedric2 | I'm going to become rich |
| 17:36.23 | summatusmentis | haha |
| 17:36.42 | Dougie187 | just feed her lots of bacon grease. |
| 17:36.50 | Dougie187 | then she will get over weight and move slowly. |
| 17:36.53 | Dougie187 | just like an old dog. |
| 17:37.01 | jasta | yawn |
| 17:37.03 | Cedric2 | Mmmh, that might be problematic... http://picasaweb.google.com/cbeust/CrissyField#5248251031880943650 |
| 17:37.16 | Cedric2 | I'll start forcefeeding her tonight |
| 17:37.21 | Dougie187 | there ya go. |
| 17:38.02 | summatusmentis | she's cute though |
| 17:38.18 | Dougie187 | yellow lab? |
| 17:38.44 | Cedric2 | yup |
| 17:38.58 | summatusmentis | I want a dog... my landlord won't let us get one though |
| 17:40.08 | Dougie187 | we have a tiny mutt dog |
| 17:40.42 | summatusmentis | wants a newfie |
| 17:41.01 | Dougie187 | seriously? |
| 17:41.06 | Dougie187 | those things are giant. |
| 17:41.09 | benley | newfies are AWESOME |
| 17:41.21 | summatusmentis | seriously, they're so cool! |
| 17:41.39 | AttractiveApe | too big :P |
| 17:41.40 | Dougie187 | I want a Husky |
| 17:41.42 | summatusmentis | my family used to have a newf, but he died because of hear issues :( |
| 17:41.48 | AttractiveApe | best friend had two when I was growing up :) |
| 17:41.51 | benley | hear issues? |
| 17:42.00 | benley | newfs don't live particularly long, sadly |
| 17:42.05 | Dougie187 | hear issues are the worst. |
| 17:42.13 | benley | wth is a "hear issue" |
| 17:42.21 | Dougie187 | you don't know what a hear issue is? |
| 17:42.26 | Dougie187 | its like the worst kind of issue ever. |
| 17:42.40 | benley | you accidentally the whole hear? |
| 17:42.49 | Dougie187 | just about. |
| 17:43.04 | summatusmentis | benley: heart* |
| 17:43.04 | Dougie187 | ... |
| 17:43.13 | benley | oh HEART |
| 17:43.22 | summatusmentis | I can't type |
| 17:43.22 | Dougie187 | heh. |
| 17:43.22 | benley | shakes his head |
| 17:43.27 | Dougie187 | i was just kidding anyways. |
| 17:44.30 | summatusmentis | urgh, linear algebra. I'll be back later |
| 17:44.31 | summatusmentis | bye all |
| 17:44.36 | Dougie187 | linear algebra is fun! |
| 17:44.44 | Dougie187 | Yay Linear Algebra! |
| 17:44.50 | summatusmentis | no, it's really not |
| 17:45.13 | Dougie187 | i just had a numerical linear algebra class earlier |
| 17:45.14 | Dougie187 | i enjoy it. |
| 17:45.17 | Cedric2 | Linear algebra is actually fun when you stop doing it for class and grades |
| 17:45.37 | Dougie187 | it only has about a billion applications. |
| 17:45.49 | *** join/#android lesceil (n=lesceil@gateway.penguincomputing.com) |
| 17:45.55 | benley | drops a diffeq book on dougie187's head |
| 17:46.04 | Dougie187 | diffeq is fun too |
| 17:46.11 | Dougie187 | those have a billion applications as well |
| 17:46.41 | benley | yeah, mostly involving pain and suffering |
| 17:47.01 | Dougie187 | hah pfft. |
| 17:47.05 | Dougie187 | its not that bad. |
| 17:47.12 | Dougie187 | im taking a numerical pde course as well |
| 17:47.18 | Dougie187 | that one is really fun |
| 17:47.45 | Dougie187 | and your diffeq book is probably just ODEs |
| 17:47.57 | *** join/#android mickrobk (n=mickrobk@c-67-173-250-134.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 17:49.04 | *** join/#android cheng (n=cheng@xGagB214.WH1.TU-Dresden.De) |
| 17:50.40 | Dougie187 | what don't you like about ODEs? |
| 17:50.50 | benley | what's an ODE? |
| 17:50.52 | Dougie187 | or, diffeq i should say assuming you mean it more generally. |
| 17:51.05 | Dougie187 | Ordinary Differential Equation. |
| 17:51.12 | benley | ah |
| 17:51.43 | benley | I never actually took any courses beyond multivariable calculus, because at that point I ran off to major in theatre. |
| 17:51.56 | Dougie187 | he |
| 17:51.57 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 17:52.00 | *** join/#android Payal (n=fkp021@host-208-68-238-59.biznesshosting.net) |
| 17:54.16 | jasta | yay, got my test environment all set up for all this new code i wrote |
| 17:54.28 | Dougie187 | nice |
| 17:54.31 | Dougie187 | hows it all coming along? |
| 17:54.40 | jasta | slowly. the MediaPlayer is killing me |
| 17:55.09 | chomchom | Jasta tell me, for the love of all that is mighty. Does SDK1 help you out at all? |
| 17:55.18 | jasta | lol, of course not |
| 17:55.33 | jasta | if anything, it's just depressing to finally have. tells me all of the things that just plain won't be right for 1.0. |
| 17:55.50 | benley | at least it provides a final list of things to work around |
| 17:56.07 | jasta | i suppose |
| 17:56.24 | chomchom | pats jasta on the back |
| 17:56.26 | benley | I haven't actually looked yet, is gdata present in the 1.0 sdk? |
| 17:56.27 | jasta | but for Five at least, my work arounds are temporary and a proper release can't proceed until the issues are fixed correctly |
| 17:56.46 | jasta | so my dev has slowed down a lot just because there's no point for me to try to hit the Oct 22nd date |
| 17:56.54 | jasta | i'll need to wait around for Android 1.1 no matter what |
| 17:58.52 | chomchom | In the meantime jasta why don't you work out a bad ass marketing plan for five? |
| 17:59.11 | jasta | because i'm not interested in that |
| 17:59.19 | jasta | if i was, why on earth would i be an open source developer? :) |
| 17:59.31 | chomchom | Come up wit ha website that has much with some cosmetic lovliness |
| 17:59.49 | jasta | well, for one i dont have the skill to do that |
| 18:00.00 | chomchom | Open source doesn't mean looks rubbish and no one uses it |
| 18:00.06 | Dougie187 | maybe muthu can help you |
| 18:00.12 | chomchom | well find someone who complements you skills |
| 18:00.14 | Dougie187 | :) |
| 18:00.37 | jasta | chomchom: why bother? if open source works like it's supposed to, they should find me :) |
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| 18:01.01 | chomchom | Open source is in its essence just a marketing and distribution model |
| 18:01.03 | *** join/#android ken_ (n=user@84.92.70.37) |
| 18:01.18 | chomchom | It won't just fly off and become really popular without you putting any effort in |
| 18:01.32 | chomchom | People will have to know how good it is and so you'll have to get it to them |
| 18:01.33 | jasta | let's please not have a philosophical discussion on what open source is and is not. i have plenty of experience in this area. |
| 18:01.46 | SanMehat | jasta: so do a lot of people, that doesn't make you an authority |
| 18:01.55 | SanMehat | sigh why do i bother |
| 18:02.06 | jasta | besides, android's market is the distribution channel that everyone should target anyway |
| 18:02.09 | chomchom | I also just gave a talk on it at the Google dev day actually! |
| 18:02.19 | jasta | it would be premature for me to focus my energy there though, since the damn thing can't even work on 1.0 |
| 18:03.08 | chomchom | maybe, just if you are stuck for things to work on. I was thinking about proactive ways to spend the time that would help five in the long run |
| 18:03.27 | jasta | i'm not stuck, i'm spending my time working on a hugely complicated work around |
| 18:03.32 | jasta | it will take a long time to finish :) |
| 18:03.59 | jasta | it'll ultimately need to be replaced before a proper release can be made, but in the mean time it will let me continue development. |
| 18:04.22 | chomchom | I want to see it work man, we all do, as you are definitely one of the #android |
| 18:06.17 | jasta | well, it's open source, so at any point you're free to see it work :) |
| 18:06.55 | jasta | but that doesn't mean i'm going to publish and market a proper release with a hackish work-around that i know to be unintuitively limiting and unstable |
| 18:07.20 | jasta | for example, i'm not going to support seeking with this hack. so users can't seek around in songs. i'm also not going to bother to show buffering progress, which most users would find unforigvable. |
| 18:07.42 | jasta | the former is because the work around is too much effort, the latter is because it's impossible given the state of MediaPlayer |
| 18:10.00 | jasta | and to give you an idea of scope, so far my hack is 2000 lines long. i expect it'll grow to 3 or 4k loc before it works. |
| 18:10.24 | chomchom | That is indeed a hack |
| 18:10.44 | chomchom | Well I do intend to check out five later. Haven't checked out the code in a while. |
| 18:10.57 | chomchom | I don't suppose you have done any server to client synching yet? |
| 18:11.14 | chomchom | It seems all the interfaces have ran away in the new SDK release |
| 18:11.39 | jasta | i didn't use any of the APIs in Android. |
| 18:11.48 | chomchom | hmmmm |
| 18:11.59 | jasta | Five synchronizes on its own, with a background service that connects to the Five server on your PC. All that is very stable at this point. |
| 18:12.13 | jasta | the only TODO left in that area is that it currently doesn't synchronize playlists. A simple task, I just never got to it. |
| 18:12.21 | jasta | Probably take me just a day to add |
| 18:13.18 | chomchom | Interesting.... Does it synchronize between the SQLite DB and another DB upon dirty/new entries on the client side or does it just push changes to the clietnt from the users machine? |
| 18:13.53 | jasta | not sure what you mean? it uses SyncML and supports all the usual features of the protocol to do synchronization of meta data from server to client. |
| 18:13.59 | chomchom | ah |
| 18:14.14 | chomchom | you went the syncML root |
| 18:14.21 | chomchom | that seems like a good option |
| 18:14.24 | jasta | the server tracks changes and all that, so each successive client sync only gets what is different |
| 18:14.33 | chomchom | as its more or less the symbian way |
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| 18:14.35 | jasta | yeah, SyncML was attractive because of libsyncml, which is the basis for the server. |
| 18:14.49 | chomchom | Yeah I think thats a good option |
| 18:14.53 | jasta | there is also some java client library out there, but it's very bad, so i wrote my own. |
| 18:15.07 | chomchom | also open source? |
| 18:15.11 | jasta | of course. |
| 18:15.31 | jasta | it's crude at this point, clearly building up just enough support that Five needs so it's not a true SyncML implementation |
| 18:15.31 | chomchom | win. Well you'll be having my dirty eyes all over that. |
| 18:15.40 | jasta | but at some point i'd like to finish it and package it as a nice generalized SyncML client |
| 18:16.14 | jasta | Five's a big project, for sure. There's something like 25k loc total code in the repository. |
| 18:17.26 | jasta | if you're curious, my road map for the next couple of months is to get this MediaPlayer hack done, finish testing the rewritten playlist service, then redo a good portion of the music player UI |
| 18:17.35 | jasta | the latter is really exciting, i have lots of new ideas about how this should be done :) |
| 18:17.55 | jasta | kind of combining five's old interface with some of the cool things i like about Google's music player. |
| 18:17.57 | Dougie187 | did you do this jasta? http://www.androiddownload.org/download-android-five-alpha-streaming-application/ |
| 18:18.38 | jasta | i did not |
| 18:18.55 | Dougie187 | but thats your app is it not? |
| 18:19.08 | *** join/#android amjad (n=amjad@66.7.161.202) |
| 18:19.24 | jasta | yeah |
| 18:19.52 | Dougie187 | i didn't know you had released it as an alpha. |
| 18:19.59 | jasta | i haven't released anything to date |
| 18:20.06 | Dougie187 | heh ok |
| 18:20.10 | benley | so wtf are they offering for download there? |
| 18:20.15 | jasta | though the repository is public for anyone to do with it as they please :) |
| 18:20.15 | *** join/#android saraneya (n=chatzill@59.92.33.227) |
| 18:20.24 | jasta | no idea, probably a download snapshot at some point they did |
| 18:20.30 | jasta | they packaged, i mean |
| 18:21.21 | Dougie187 | lol they even took the picture off your site. |
| 18:22.53 | jasta | im sure there will be lots of that as phones come out |
| 18:23.08 | chomchom | Well thats good since its free advertising! |
| 18:23.08 | Dougie187 | is all the code in the repo up-to-date? |
| 18:23.12 | jasta | folks just arbitrating someone elses open source project. it happens a lot, actually |
| 18:23.17 | jasta | Dougie187: yes, always. |
| 18:23.23 | Dougie187 | with your hack too? |
| 18:23.45 | jasta | yes, but the hack has not been tested. right now im in the process of building test cases for all the code i wrote in the last month |
| 18:24.26 | jasta | the hack is in five-music/.../service/LocalHttpServerHack.java |
| 18:24.26 | Dougie187 | cool |
| 18:24.48 | jasta | but its missing lots of features ;) |
| 18:25.00 | jasta | the PlaylistService needs some new test cases built to make sure it all works in that context too |
| 18:25.09 | jasta | and preemptive downloads were ripped out during this rewrite, so i have to introduce that back in again |
| 18:25.19 | jasta | also, submission to Last.fm was temporarily removed for that same reason |
| 18:25.39 | jasta | since 0.9r1 was released, i've been steamrolling over a lot of code, rewriting it to be more efficient and more correct |
| 18:26.25 | plusminus_ | "more correct" :-D |
| 18:26.26 | Dougie187 | cool |
| 18:26.26 | *** join/#android saraneya (n=chatzill@59.92.33.227) |
| 18:27.13 | Dougie187 | you write nice code, just so you know. |
| 18:27.21 | Dougie187 | but you don't write very many comments. |
| 18:27.22 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 18:27.35 | jasta | comments are not a sign of good code. excessive comments usually surrounds bad code :) |
| 18:27.42 | jasta | surround* |
| 18:28.01 | Dougie187 | true |
| 18:28.03 | jasta | but yeah, i don't comment much. generlaly only when i'm writing some goofy hack or something |
| 18:28.07 | Dougie187 | people here push comments. |
| 18:28.09 | Miek | // increment by one |
| 18:28.10 | Dougie187 | i hate comments though |
| 18:28.11 | jasta | thanks for the compliment tho :) |
| 18:28.12 | tmccrary | its better to have too many comments than not enough |
| 18:28.17 | Dougie187 | i think they make it harder to read. |
| 18:28.27 | chomchom | Good code should read well without comments |
| 18:28.34 | tmccrary | I used to think that but its still better to comment |
| 18:28.36 | Dougie187 | I'd rather have a readme file with all the comments dumped into it, and then the code nice and clean |
| 18:28.44 | tmccrary | "good code" is a perfect world situation |
| 18:28.59 | tmccrary | which you should never plan to have :) |
| 18:29.09 | chomchom | heh |
| 18:29.24 | Dougie187 | tmccrary: i think you mean perfect code. |
| 18:29.34 | Dougie187 | good code is all subjective. |
| 18:29.50 | chomchom | Well at least good code should have documentation in the form of adequate unit testing |
| 18:30.39 | Dougie187 | I think jasta's code is an example of good code. its clean, uses a lot of white space, but not too much. and doesn't have redundant unneeded comments. |
| 18:31.08 | Dougie187 | it might benefit from a description at the top of the file, but the file names are just as descriptive as that would be. |
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| 18:31.35 | jasta | fyi, i tend to roll over my code once i am happy with it and javadoc at least the classes and modules. |
| 18:31.42 | jasta | if not the important methods and such |
| 18:32.24 | jasta | for example, this hack i'm concentrating on just making it work, then i'll epxlain why it is necessary and how it works |
| 18:32.35 | saraneya | who has the time to write comments? |
| 18:32.51 | Dougie187 | people who don't know how to code. |
| 18:32.58 | jasta | Dougie187: for example, see IPlaylistService.aidl. |
| 18:33.37 | Dougie187 | yeah |
| 18:34.22 | Dougie187 | those help some too |
| 18:34.29 | Dougie187 | but they are hard to read in vim |
| 18:34.29 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 18:35.05 | jasta | what are? |
| 18:35.14 | jasta | (i use vim almost exclusively, btw) |
| 18:35.41 | Dougie187 | the aidl files. |
| 18:35.45 | Dougie187 | me too |
| 18:35.49 | Dougie187 | i can't use anything else. |
| 18:36.10 | Dougie187 | but you run javadoc over these right? |
| 18:36.19 | jasta | i haven't yet :) |
| 18:36.25 | Dougie187 | yeah, but you will at some point |
| 18:36.28 | Dougie187 | after you finish everything. |
| 18:36.41 | jasta | yeah, i guess. javadoc is more for me and how it shows up in vim though :) |
| 18:36.59 | jasta | i like structured documentation, i am not as interested in the output that the javadoc tools make |
| 18:37.00 | Dougie187 | javadoc tends to make things easier to read, at least as far as comments go. |
| 18:37.19 | jasta | but anyway, use :set ft=java on those aidl files |
| 18:37.30 | jasta | editing mine should have that happen automagically since i have that in my header |
| 18:37.35 | *** join/#android dfas (n=none@10.201.216.81.static.s-o.siw.siwnet.net) |
| 18:37.35 | jasta | which makes it display quite nicely |
| 18:37.38 | Dougie187 | yeah that helps too |
| 18:38.07 | Dougie187 | the syntax coloring is nice. |
| 18:38.13 | Dougie187 | everything without it is hard to read imo |
| 18:38.14 | Dougie187 | lo |
| 18:38.17 | Dougie187 | lol* |
| 18:39.24 | saraneya | how many apps will be available on oct 22? |
| 18:39.36 | Cedric2 | Millions! |
| 18:39.39 | Dougie187 | hah |
| 18:39.48 | Dougie187 | probably a couple hundred at the most. |
| 18:42.25 | amjad | question: who makes the hardware for T-mobile G1?? |
| 18:42.26 | saraneya | will be interesting to watch the apps that debut on market |
| 18:42.38 | saraneya | HTC |
| 18:42.51 | f00f- | amjad: HTC, it is internally known as the HTC Dream, the device |
| 18:42.53 | jasta | Dougie187: well thanks for all the flattery. i'm off to lunch now ;) |
| 18:43.04 | Dougie187 | have fun |
| 18:43.51 | *** join/#android plusminus_ (i=81020c44@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-13f4d8937f8b8796) |
| 18:44.29 | unix_lappy | lol, jasta has been in here all day and is going to lunch now :-) |
| 18:44.42 | Dougie187 | its noon for him. |
| 18:44.55 | *** join/#android erus` (n=Tom@92.11.96.181) |
| 18:45.23 | unix_lappy | Dougie187: yea, west coast, i dig. |
| 18:45.54 | f00f- | too early for lunch |
| 18:46.06 | Dougie187 | noon? |
| 18:46.16 | Dougie187 | i have to eat either at 11:30 or 10:30 every day. |
| 18:46.26 | Dougie187 | otherwise i don't get a chance until like 2 or 3. and thats too late |
| 18:47.00 | f00f- | oh my, what a regime :X |
| 18:49.06 | unix_lappy | Dougie187: you have class around noon? |
| 18:49.18 | unix_lappy | big bummerino. |
| 18:49.35 | f00f- | oh, you're in school |
| 18:51.17 | Dougie187 | yeah every day. |
| 18:52.15 | *** part/#android gary| (n=gary@93-96-140-104.zone4.bethere.co.uk) |
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| 18:53.57 | saraneya | can the app be in both tmo market and android market? |
| 18:54.11 | benley | there's a difference? |
| 18:56.57 | Dougie187 | and if so, why would you not be able to do that? |
| 19:00.13 | Dougie187 | tea time! |
| 19:00.33 | benley | good idea |
| 19:00.39 | benley | only s/tea/espresso/ |
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| 19:09.08 | *** join/#android flynn (n=chatzill@mail.vs-us.com) |
| 19:11.06 | pardom | android question!!! |
| 19:11.17 | pardom | what's the difference between binding a service and just starting it? |
| 19:15.21 | tric | ie an activity can bind to a service, so it can use/call it. after just starting a service there wont be such a connection |
| 19:15.48 | BBHoss | is the any way to get the device's GPS location using javascript in the browser? |
| 19:18.23 | yakischloba | BBHoss: i hope not, thats max evil |
| 19:18.33 | *** join/#android trashguy (n=trashguy@core1.calarts.edu) |
| 19:18.45 | BBHoss | yakischloba: the blackberry browser allows it if you enable the functionality |
| 19:18.55 | yakischloba | wow really |
| 19:18.58 | yakischloba | curious |
| 19:19.17 | BBHoss | yeah its in general properties or something like it |
| 19:19.30 | *** join/#android mr_daniel (n=sysrq@e177151137.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 19:19.34 | BBHoss | enable location browser services or something like it |
| 19:25.14 | *** join/#android covalentbond (n=covalent@mail1.earthquakemedia.com) |
| 19:26.46 | *** join/#android dohtem (n=arn@c-98-208-32-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 19:28.39 | erus` | is the any way to get the device's GPS location using javascript in the browser? yes like in the webview demo |
| 19:29.42 | erus` | you can pass object to the javascript |
| 19:29.46 | erus` | super sexy cool |
| 19:37.42 | BBHoss | erus`: what? |
| 19:38.21 | erus` | you can access pretty much anything in javascript if you make it accessable |
| 19:38.38 | BBHoss | erus`: can you give me a little more detail on how i would access GPS? |
| 19:39.24 | erus` | its in the sdk |
| 19:40.21 | BBHoss | but i have to install something or modify the device first right? |
| 19:40.35 | BBHoss | also do you have a link for more info? |
| 19:41.36 | erus` | yes u do |
| 19:41.44 | erus` | no i cant find link right now im busy |
| 19:43.04 | BBHoss | erus`: ok, thanks for your input :) |
| 19:49.24 | jasta | hehe yikes, i'll have to pay AT&T $175 to cancel my contract and move to T-Mobile |
| 19:50.50 | trashguy | lol |
| 19:50.56 | trashguy | iPhone fail |
| 19:51.24 | unix_lappy | jasta: or you could wait until christmas to get an unlocked g1 |
| 19:52.03 | AttractiveApe | jasta: better option -- give your contract away on craigslist or something, some people can't pass the credit checks to get the contract. |
| 19:52.06 | *** join/#android covalentbond_ (n=covalent@231.sub-75-192-151.myvzw.com) |
| 19:52.12 | AttractiveApe | Maybe throw in a free phone if you don't have an awesome plan. |
| 19:52.19 | trashguy | lol |
| 19:52.27 | trashguy | people sell contracts on craig slist |
| 19:52.29 | trashguy | lulkz |
| 19:52.56 | jasta | unix_lappy: except that it doesn't support AT&T's 3G frequencies, i confirmed that today |
| 19:53.05 | jasta | one of these phones without 3G is useless |
| 19:53.26 | trashguy | finally a 3g phone on tmobile |
| 19:53.27 | jasta | AttractiveApe: how the hell does that work? the account has my god damn soc# on it |
| 19:53.34 | trashguy | my blackberry is worthless its so slow |
| 19:53.44 | *** join/#android covalentbon (n=covalent@9.sub-75-220-222.myvzw.com) |
| 19:53.55 | AttractiveApe | jasta: then you go in and transfer it, so they don't see it. |
| 19:54.12 | BBHoss | jasta: ATT uses UMTS whereas Tmo uses AWS, the gsm standard base is still supported though |
| 19:54.18 | AttractiveApe | I dunno, it works on Canadian carriers at least. |
| 19:54.20 | AttractiveApe | ymmv. |
| 19:54.38 | benley | why would it be useless without 3g? |
| 19:55.16 | trashguy | slow |
| 19:55.19 | benley | wifi. |
| 19:55.24 | trashguy | i forgot |
| 19:55.28 | trashguy | the entire usa is coverd inw ifi |
| 19:55.28 | jasta | benley: well, considering my project is Five....... :) |
| 19:55.34 | unix_lappy | jasta: as many pluses as we've drummed up. |
| 19:55.41 | unix_lappy | the minuses are quickly adding up :-( |
| 19:55.50 | jasta | unix_lappy: what? |
| 19:55.59 | unix_lappy | for the entire g1 situation. |
| 19:56.04 | jasta | AttractiveApe: how do you transfer it? i don't know what you're talking about. |
| 19:56.28 | jasta | unix_lappy: im just buying mine for dev, actually |
| 19:56.46 | jasta | if i really wanted a great phone i'd just buy an iphone hehe |
| 19:56.51 | unix_lappy | jasta: i'm buying my first smartphone. |
| 19:56.58 | benley | I've used an iphone and I've used a g1, and I'll keep the g1 thx |
| 19:57.14 | jasta | how have you used a g1? |
| 19:57.21 | trashguy | you mean a blackberry |
| 19:57.24 | AttractiveApe | jasta: I dunno, talk to AT&T. |
| 19:57.42 | benley | jasta: no comment I guess |
| 19:58.03 | jasta | benley: oh, were you one of the winners? |
| 19:58.09 | benley | no. |
| 19:58.18 | unix_lappy | there are plenty of g1's floating around for non google employees. |
| 19:58.40 | jasta | i didnt think there would be any for folks to walk away with and actually use |
| 19:59.33 | trashguy | has it beeen jail broken? |
| 20:00.54 | *** join/#android mg4001 (i=mg4001@208.98.20.164) |
| 20:00.58 | benley | is there anything to jailbreak? |
| 20:01.17 | trashguy | i dont know |
| 20:01.25 | trashguy | will i be able to run a terminal |
| 20:01.47 | jasta | highly unlikely |
| 20:01.52 | Cedric2 | Yes for terminal, but you won't be able to su on a locked device |
| 20:01.55 | Cedric2 | so it won't take you far |
| 20:02.13 | jasta | No for terminal, Yes for opening for processes. |
| 20:02.25 | jasta | -for :) |
| 20:02.40 | jasta | there's a difference, even if most googlers don't know what it is |
| 20:02.40 | jasta | :) |
| 20:02.57 | Cedric2 | Admittedly, I have only been using unlocked devices so far |
| 20:03.10 | trashguy | so inlocked you can su in etc? |
| 20:03.14 | trashguy | unlocked |
| 20:03.16 | Cedric2 | Yes |
| 20:03.20 | trashguy | okay cool |
| 20:03.28 | Cedric2 | and adbd runs as root, so you can do whatever you want including reflashing it |
| 20:03.37 | Cedric2 | which is what we do on a daily basis |
| 20:04.14 | jasta | Cedric2: are we expecting adb to be uncrippled on consumer devices? that would be excellent news. |
| 20:04.43 | Cedric2 | Not sure what you mean by uncrippled, right now it's a binary thing: doesn't work on locked devices, works on unlocked devices |
| 20:05.12 | jasta | oh, interesting. so locked in this sense is much more than sim lock? |
| 20:05.27 | Cedric2 | Unfortunately yes (you can't reflash a locked device) |
| 20:05.51 | Cedric2 | I hear you can unlocked your device after 90 days, though |
| 20:06.00 | jasta | so how does that work with the CTO's recent claim that customers can have it unlocked after 90 days? |
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| 20:06.05 | jasta | ahh yes, that ;) |
| 20:06.19 | jasta | that makes no sense why you'd make a dev simply wait idly for 90 days to have that level of freedom |
| 20:06.44 | Cedric2 | Carriers have different perspectives than developers on this kind of thing, I'm not going to try to justify this |
| 20:06.47 | jasta | it's not a huge deal assuming there is no treachery going on, but still, that's kind of a strange policy |
| 20:07.18 | jasta | so, with a locked phone, can custom applications be installed freely? |
| 20:07.25 | jasta | that is, deploying an apk you built? |
| 20:07.38 | Cedric2 | Yes, that part should work since you're not touching the system partition (which is read-only) |
| 20:07.47 | jasta | but aren't you using adb to do that? |
| 20:08.10 | Cedric2 | Yes, but adb install pushes stuff in /data, not on the system partition |
| 20:08.15 | Cedric2 | you just need to enable USB for this |
| 20:10.14 | jasta | i see, so adb shell should still work, it just won't give you a root shell? |
| 20:10.19 | Cedric2 | yup |
| 20:10.40 | jasta | excellent, and adb push as well? so all we need to do is start looking for local root exploits hehe jk |
| 20:11.03 | Cedric2 | I'm sure exploits will be found |
| 20:11.09 | Cedric2 | but probably a touch challenge on a locked device |
| 20:11.28 | Cedric2 | Anyway, I expect them to be broken 24 hours after the official release, it's par for the course |
| 20:11.30 | jasta | well if t-mobile is true to their word and allows unlocking freely, then i guess there's no sense in that |
| 20:11.48 | Cedric2 | You know that won't stop hackers from trying and succeeding :) |
| 20:11.56 | jasta | trust me, i know |
| 20:11.56 | benley | looks forward to 3rd-party hackers unlocking the phones |
| 20:12.07 | jasta | my contention isn't whether it can be done, it's what t-mobile will do about it |
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| 20:20.59 | wastrel | hi |
| 20:21.14 | wastrel | it's a pretty good phone |
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| 20:41.46 | kristian-m | There should be a way for developers to get a G1 in europe... - is Google/HTC/T-Mobile planing anything like that? |
| 20:42.49 | f00f- | yeah |
| 20:42.53 | f00f- | give it some time |
| 20:42.54 | f00f- | november |
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| 20:47.51 | amjad | is there any docs with spec file email clients/browser for G1?? |
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| 20:50.15 | chuck | kristian-m: yeah i'm hoping that google comes out with a device like the openmoko one (but a lot better looking of course >_<) |
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| 21:20.00 | ttuttle | SanMehat: ping |
| 21:20.04 | slux | halo |
| 21:24.00 | SanMehat | hey |
| 21:25.00 | ttuttle | SanMehat: How's it going? |
| 21:25.19 | f00f- | pong |
| 21:26.59 | SanMehat | ttuttle: shitty, making posters for a lost cat |
| 21:27.04 | ttuttle | SanMehat: Awwww. |
| 21:27.07 | ttuttle | SanMehat: That sucks. |
| 21:28.19 | benley | the poor kitty! |
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| 21:28.55 | kingkung | hello all |
| 21:28.55 | ttuttle | benley: hey! |
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| 21:29.19 | kingkung | anyone know what happened to the SMS Inbox/Outbox in Android 1.0? |
| 21:29.35 | benley | ttuttle: I LIKE TUTTLES |
| 21:30.11 | ttuttle | benley: ...thanks? |
| 21:30.16 | benley | ttuttle: sorry, repeating old meme |
| 21:30.17 | kingkung | look it up on youtube |
| 21:30.20 | ttuttle | benley: ah |
| 21:30.33 | ttuttle | benley: my address is in LDAP if you want to send me a G1 ;-) |
| 21:30.38 | benley | Heh :) |
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| 21:31.03 | benley | pity they didn't let you keep one when you went back to school |
| 21:31.18 | kingkung | anyone an expert at android 1.0 yet? |
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| 21:31.26 | kingkung | have a question |
| 21:31.39 | ttuttle | benley: It would have been a *horrible* idea to let me keep it. |
| 21:32.13 | ttuttle | benley: Someone would've ended up getting pictures or something. |
| 21:32.37 | benley | heh |
| 21:33.20 | kingkung | looks like that's a resounding "no". |
| 21:33.39 | ttuttle | kingkung: Um, it hasn't been out long. |
| 21:33.54 | ttuttle | kingkung: But many people know Android 0.9, which is strikingly similar. If you have a question, just ask. |
| 21:34.03 | kingkung | sure |
| 21:34.04 | kingkung | i did |
| 21:34.27 | kingkung | what happened to the SMS Inbox/Outbox in Android 1.0? (available in 0.9) |
| 21:34.30 | ttuttle | Oh, that. |
| 21:34.35 | ttuttle | I dunno. :-\ |
| 21:34.41 | kingkung | android.provider.telephony.Sms |
| 21:34.43 | ttuttle | brb |
| 21:34.46 | kingkung | not there anymore! |
| 21:37.51 | Miek | i don't really know anything about it, but is this helpful: http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/telephony/gsm/package-summary.html ? |
| 21:41.04 | kingkung | not exactly what i was looking for, but thank you |
| 21:45.12 | jasta | ponders what should be done about the MediaStore provider in Five |
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| 21:49.20 | jasta | i guess i should put cached five tracks in this provider... |
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| 21:51.35 | cyrus__ | Anyone here run android on the n810? I followed the instructions on internettabletalk but when I run android it never does anything |
| 21:58.29 | kingkung | you're probably just running the "invisible" skin |
| 21:59.50 | kingkung | it's always important to set invisibility to "off" prior to isntalling android on any mobile devices |
| 22:01.46 | cyrus__ | not sure what you mean to invisibility to of |
| 22:01.53 | jasta | he's joking |
| 22:04.11 | kingkung | sorry, i'm bored attempting to port to 1.0 |
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| 22:04.20 | Cedric2 | Because you have nothing to do? |
| 22:04.38 | Cedric2 | I would consider this a success :) |
| 22:04.42 | kingkung | because i dunno what happened to the Sms package |
| 22:04.51 | kingkung | and can't find anything in docs |
| 22:05.15 | f00f- | probably a service now |
| 22:05.34 | jeffb | TUTTLES |
| 22:05.56 | f00f- | !HOTDOG! |
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| 22:52.20 | donomo | How do i take an R.id.radio_button_thing and retrieve its object soi can set to to On? |
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| 22:53.43 | f00f- | ((RadioButton) findViewById(R.id.bleh)).setOn(whatever); |
| 22:54.47 | donomo | sweet. thx |
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| 23:16.22 | jasta | yawn |
| 23:17.22 | umdk1d3 | yay |
| 23:17.29 | umdk1d3 | in sanjose |
| 23:17.44 | jasta | that place sucks |
| 23:17.59 | umdk1d3 | ohsnap =O |
| 23:17.59 | jasta | go to SF :) |
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| 23:22.57 | xavd | jasta: do you still have the "bad type" error on your aidl files? |
| 23:23.27 | jasta | well, yes, but i worked around just like i did in pre 1.0 |
| 23:23.45 | jasta | but still, the bug remains valid |
| 23:24.05 | xavd | strangely I opened an old project that had aidl files and add it too. I edited the file and saved it and the error disappeared... I'm not sure what is going on |
| 23:24.22 | xavd | (add it too = had it too) |
| 23:24.53 | jasta | the problem, i believe, relates to the new project.aidl feature |
| 23:24.56 | jasta | which apparently does not work |
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| 23:25.06 | xavd | well I'm using it right now and it works |
| 23:25.31 | jasta | so you have a custom parcelable? |
| 23:26.01 | xavd | Yes, I have a class implementing Parcelable, and an interface defined in an aidl file with a method that returns it |
| 23:26.19 | jasta | Hmm, well. |
| 23:26.27 | jasta | I don't know, I struggled for hours to make it work |
| 23:29.49 | taaz | amused by bad press causing t-mobile to back off and review the 1GB cap |
| 23:32.01 | xavd | jasta: it looks like the "bad type" error comes when aidl fails to parse project.aidl. It should not happen when it's generated automatically. I'm looking into it |
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