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| 00:04.40 | SanMehat | umdk1d3: ping |
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| 00:13.39 | *** join/#android romainguy (n=gfx@69.36.227.135) |
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| 00:27.57 | Disconnect | zhobbs: so I ran it through the WAF filter and the feedback was (at least by default) if you make a change with a profile on, it should go away when the profile does. so each template is 2 lists - a sticky "forced settings" list ("Joe: no ring, Bob: ring") and a temporary list ("Jan: no ring") - temp list isn't stored between profile swaps. |
| 00:28.04 | Disconnect | might have to write this thing just to get it out of his head :) |
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| 00:30.55 | zhobbs | romainguy_: I have a ListView, and click on a row launches an Activity. Why would my adapter's getItemId() method get called *after* onPause() ? |
| 00:31.19 | romainguy | I don't know, why are you calling it? :) |
| 00:31.24 | zhobbs | haha |
| 00:31.34 | romainguy | use the debugger and see what the stack is |
| 00:31.43 | romainguy | it could be the selection resurrection code |
| 00:31.46 | Disconnect | (thats Wife Acceptance Factor fyi, for any non-english-speakers :) ..) |
| 00:32.44 | zhobbs | romainguy: VideoLibraryAdapter(CustomCursorAdapter).getItemId(int) line: 69 |
| 00:32.44 | zhobbs | ListView(AdapterView).rememberSyncState() line: 1082 |
| 00:32.44 | zhobbs | ListView(AbsListView).onSizeChanged(int, int, int, int) line: 1141 |
| 00:32.54 | romainguy | well here you go |
| 00:33.06 | jasta | really likes the new cat wallpaper :) |
| 00:33.11 | romainguy | it's the code that saves the state of the list |
| 00:33.14 | zhobbs | ok |
| 00:33.19 | romainguy | jasta: it's a snow Leopard :) |
| 00:33.26 | jasta | it's gorgeous |
| 00:33.27 | jasta | did you take that? |
| 00:33.32 | romainguy | unfortunately no |
| 00:33.39 | romainguy | this one and the beach are not mine |
| 00:33.39 | zhobbs | so, if my adapter is based on a cursor, I'm supposed to deactivate it in onPause() right? |
| 00:33.40 | Dougie187 | is it from planet earth? |
| 00:33.49 | romainguy | all others (except the last 3 drawings) are mine |
| 00:33.49 | zhobbs | (deactivate the Cursor that is) |
| 00:33.57 | jasta | romainguy: is the device gonna ship with some of your work on it? that would be so freaking cool |
| 00:34.11 | romainguy | the wallpapers you see are what the device in store will have |
| 00:34.15 | zhobbs | jasta: yeah, it'll ship with ListView, GridView, etc |
| 00:34.17 | romainguy | so yes, it's cool :) |
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| 00:34.57 | Dougie187 | i don't have the snow lepoard. |
| 00:34.59 | Dougie187 | :( |
| 00:35.19 | jasta | romainguy: that alone is a cool thing to put on your resume :P |
| 00:35.23 | romainguy | ^^ |
| 00:35.29 | soulless | romainguy: you're still on the android team? |
| 00:35.38 | romainguy | yes |
| 00:35.46 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 00:35.49 | jasta | ...stil? |
| 00:35.51 | jasta | still* |
| 00:35.53 | romainguy | for those interested, here are the high-res version of the Android wallpapers: http://www.flickr.com/photos/romainguy/sets/72157607462733219/ |
| 00:35.56 | Dougie187 | would you expect anything else? |
| 00:36.08 | jasta | nice |
| 00:36.23 | jasta | where's the snowy mountain? i liked that one a lot too |
| 00:36.24 | Dougie187 | Wheres the grass land one taken? |
| 00:36.26 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 00:36.35 | soulless | romainguy: do you get to see any cool phone prototypes from various manufacturers? (i know you can't discuss details) |
| 00:36.35 | romainguy | Dougie187: in China |
| 00:36.36 | jasta | all it lacked was a snowboarding racing an avalanche :) |
| 00:36.44 | romainguy | soulless: I can't tell :p |
| 00:36.50 | romainguy | jasta: http://www.flickr.com/photos/romainguy/61153541/in/set-72157607462733219/ |
| 00:37.00 | soulless | that means the answer is yes ;) |
| 00:37.10 | unix_infidel | blasphemy, these should be on picasa! |
| 00:37.24 | jasta | romainguy: i know it's nothing like yours, but i took a really cool photo when iw as in ireland |
| 00:37.30 | jasta | hang on let me grab the url |
| 00:37.55 | jasta | http://picasaweb.google.com/jasta00/Ireland2008#5249763835446290226 |
| 00:37.58 | romainguy | jasta: here are the photos of the Android team member who took the picture of the Snow Leopard http://www.flickr.com/photos/visiglow/ |
| 00:37.58 | Dougie187 | what kinda camera do you have romain? |
| 00:38.08 | romainguy | Dougie187: a Canon EOS 30D |
| 00:38.24 | Dougie187 | i take it you like it a lot? |
| 00:38.27 | romainguy | jasta: nice! |
| 00:38.29 | Dougie187 | it takes some pretty sweet pictures. |
| 00:38.36 | romainguy | Dougie187: well I shot 2,500 photos lat week :) |
| 00:38.41 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 00:38.53 | jasta | romainguy: that spot was so flippin cool. the clouds were rushing by so fast that the scene changed every couple of minutes we stood there |
| 00:38.53 | soulless | does anyone know if the G1 accelerometer is more or less sensitive than the iphones? |
| 00:38.56 | Dougie187 | are you a freelance photographer in addition to android? |
| 00:39.08 | romainguy | jasta: here you go: http://www.flickr.com/photos/visiglow/224157465/ |
| 00:39.20 | jasta | sweet :) |
| 00:39.22 | romainguy | Dougie187: I'm not, but I'd definitely like to |
| 00:39.26 | Dougie187 | that is sweet. |
| 00:39.32 | jasta | romainguy: it looks especially cool on the "right" android screen |
| 00:39.34 | Dougie187 | you should try to do some of it. |
| 00:39.49 | romainguy | I just need to check whether it's compatible with my work visa ;-) |
| 00:40.16 | romainguy | I also recently got 2 photos published in this book: http://www.curious-creature.org/page/2/ |
| 00:40.55 | jasta | romainguy: that photo i took was on the Dingle Peninsula in Ireland btw :) |
| 00:41.06 | romainguy | how was your trip btw? |
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| 00:41.31 | jasta | i loved it. i had so much fun |
| 00:41.33 | Dougie187 | romainguy: did you get paid for the photos? |
| 00:41.45 | jasta | people were great, the country side is beautiful, ... |
| 00:41.47 | jasta | so much to love there |
| 00:41.52 | romainguy | Dougie187: I chose not to because all of my photos are under Creative Commons |
| 00:42.36 | Dougie187 | well thats cool |
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| 00:43.27 | romainguy | last week I finally went to Antelope Canyon |
| 00:43.43 | romainguy | which means I took a picture that looks exactly like one of M3's wallpapers ^^ |
| 00:43.51 | jasta | romainguy: http://picasaweb.google.com/jasta00/Ireland2008#5249763347500241394 :) |
| 00:44.31 | romainguy | hehe cool |
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| 00:45.14 | jasta | that's a really neat story actually |
| 00:45.24 | jasta | that dolphin lives there, he comes up and swims with any boat the drives by |
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| 00:45.35 | jasta | http://www.emeraldtiger.com/countys/kerry/fungie.htm |
| 00:47.32 | jasta | check this place out too: |
| 00:47.39 | jasta | http://picasaweb.google.com/jasta00/Ireland2008#5249765324994644210 -- there's a whole series of pictures before this |
| 00:47.47 | jasta | they let you walk all along that cliff side. about 2.5 miles total. |
| 00:52.21 | soulless | romainguy: was the eclipse android plugin developed at google? |
| 00:52.29 | romainguy | it still is |
| 00:53.00 | soulless | you need to use your influence to have someone make an updated netbeans plugin ;) |
| 00:53.12 | romainguy | lol |
| 00:53.20 | romainguy | well, I use IntelliJ... :) |
| 00:53.58 | soulless | i suppose tor norbye isn't on irc much anymore |
| 00:54.28 | romainguy | I haven't seen him on #javaposse in months |
| 00:55.18 | soulless | i'm a bit surprised that they haven't put any effort on support for android and gwt |
| 00:55.53 | romainguy | NetBeans? |
| 00:55.56 | soulless | yes |
| 00:56.02 | romainguy | they're busy with dynamic languages and Java FX |
| 00:56.07 | romainguy | unfortunately nobody cares about Java FX |
| 00:56.33 | soulless | i've only played around a bit with the media support in fx |
| 00:56.46 | Disconnect | wants a python api (I know, it'll be a while at best) |
| 00:57.16 | SanMehat | oh.. .god.... no... |
| 00:57.47 | Disconnect | could be worse. could be ruby. |
| 00:57.57 | romainguy | that's my shuttle stop |
| 00:57.58 | romainguy | see ya |
| 00:58.06 | SanMehat | romainguy: night man |
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| 01:17.10 | *** topic/#android is BEHOLD - http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2008/09/announcing-android-10-sdk-release-1.html |
| 01:19.07 | jasta | i've been writing lots of fun java code lately :) |
| 01:19.55 | jasta | basically writing "tail" in java at the moment |
| 01:21.38 | romainguy_ | you have a very personal definition of fun :)) |
| 01:21.51 | yakischloba | yeah really |
| 01:22.29 | Disconnect | jasta: save me the effort and embarrassment by writing a terminal app? :) |
| 01:23.01 | Disconnect | does -not- feel like relearning ansi codes and writing a proper term emulator :/ but if begging fails.... :) |
| 01:23.49 | jasta | Disconnect: you don't have to, there's a public domain terminal emulator (ported to android even, bonus) already out there |
| 01:24.03 | jasta | i think its contained within a project called connectbot maybe. i know it exists, i just dont know what the project is called |
| 01:24.04 | Disconnect | cool. i looked around but couldn't find it. |
| 01:24.06 | Disconnect | ah ok |
| 01:24.15 | romainguy_ | there's also the one we wrote :p |
| 01:24.19 | Disconnect | installable and working on the actual hardware? |
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| 01:24.51 | jasta | Disconnect: its not a terminal, but it contains a general purpose VT100 implementation and a view for it on android |
| 01:24.53 | Disconnect | had expected tmob to object to that |
| 01:24.59 | jasta | you would need to adapt it to be a terminal and not an ssh client, of course |
| 01:25.04 | jasta | but thats very, very easy if you know what youre doing |
| 01:25.15 | Disconnect | ah ok. thats not bad, thats about the same scale as the first-effort i was gonna do anyway :) |
| 01:25.16 | jasta | Disconnect: oh, it won't be useful, and it won't be a real terminal without JNI |
| 01:25.44 | jasta | (you wont have permission to do anything interesting, and tehre wont be many interesting tools) |
| 01:25.47 | Disconnect | ah |
| 01:26.38 | wastrel | does the g1 have bluetooth? |
| 01:26.50 | romainguy_ | yes |
| 01:26.54 | Disconnect | ssh client is important of course, but it won't be long before somebody slaps a proper shell on it. embedded linux devices hardly ever stand long without that. |
| 01:29.09 | gambler | wastrel, BT isnt officially supported yet in the SDK though. |
| 01:32.43 | Disconnect | wasn't someone saying they had jni working? |
| 01:32.59 | Disconnect | (not -supported- just working) |
| 01:33.07 | romainguy_ | it works |
| 01:33.11 | romainguy_ | just don't do it :) |
| 01:33.15 | Disconnect | lol |
| 01:33.42 | Disconnect | isn't feeling -huge- pressure to get a shell running. on the emulator. and i've already -got- a shell on the mac, so... :) |
| 01:35.03 | Disconnect | that'll change when i ahve a device in my hand and its all locked away and mean. |
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| 01:40.34 | jasta | i feel like ive asked this before but is there some type of spacing attribute on layouts? |
| 01:41.13 | jasta | i've got for example a horizontal row of buttons and i'd like them to be spaced apart equally, but it seems lame to specify the same padding/margin for each button |
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| 01:48.56 | d03boy | what are some of the best android apps that people have made? |
| 01:49.28 | jasta | that's a pretty loaded question don't you think? |
| 01:49.38 | d03boy | no |
| 01:49.41 | jasta | google's answer is the winners of the ADC, i'd say. |
| 01:49.42 | d03boy | just a regular question |
| 01:50.26 | d03boy | has anyone made an IRC app yet? |
| 01:50.37 | d03boy | ive been out of the loop because of my busy life lately |
| 01:52.33 | jasta | i actually don't know what's out there at this point. i'm sure the android market will tell you very fast. |
| 01:57.47 | d03boy | i'm excited |
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| 02:01.24 | soulless | hmm, i think the idea i'm still forming is more interesting than most of the adc winners.. but i'm sure someone must have had the same idea already |
| 02:01.38 | d03boy | soulless, care to divulge? |
| 02:02.14 | d03boy | can you use a stylus on the screen? |
| 02:03.29 | soulless | basicly an app that uses the accelerometer to detect seizures and possibly accidents, and automaticly sending gps data to for example a family member.. could be used for things like epilepsy patients or even some accidentprone sports like slalom and mountain biking |
| 02:06.48 | d03boy | "Hello, Tom. It seems that you are having a seizure. Please press 'Disable' if that is incorrect." |
| 02:07.08 | soulless | exactly |
| 02:08.32 | d03boy | might have to talk to some doctors or something to see what kind of movements they generate |
| 02:08.43 | d03boy | i wonder how sensitive it is |
| 02:10.22 | soulless | yeah, it would have to have different profiles for different things.. but i think the idea has potential.. but yet, the sensitivity of the accelerometer would be an issue, but at least someone recently created an iphone app that measures earthquakes |
| 02:10.40 | d03boy | its worht a try |
| 02:11.51 | packetthirst | you need to have a way to ignore all the false positives that could happen... |
| 02:12.32 | packetthirst | as d03boy said, are you planning to have something like press to 'Disable' ? |
| 02:12.34 | soulless | this would be one of those applications that doesn't fit into steve jobs "we have a better idea, 'push' can do anything background apps can" idea |
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| 02:12.57 | soulless | yeah, it would have to give the person a chance to cancel false alarms |
| 02:13.17 | packetthirst | It really doesnt make sense when the user meets with an accident or the sort where the user is too busy to think about his/her phone |
| 02:13.55 | soulless | packetthirst: but they only need to cancel if it's a false alarm.. if it's not a false alarm they don't need to do anything |
| 02:14.26 | packetthirst | don't you think false alarms will happen pretty often ? |
| 02:14.48 | soulless | hard to say without having a chance to play with the accelerometer |
| 02:15.17 | packetthirst | oh yeah, provided the user only enables your app when he feels an impending disaster :-D |
| 02:15.21 | d03boy | i think the back and forth would have to be sustained over a long period of time |
| 02:15.27 | packetthirst | uses his "spidersense" |
| 02:16.44 | packetthirst | great idea, but pretty hard to implement usefully |
| 02:16.48 | soulless | also the accuracy of the gps could play a large role.. a person that still moving at a steady pace but still shakes enough to indicate a seizure would be a sign that it's a false alarm |
| 02:16.57 | packetthirst | worth a challenge anyway :-D |
| 02:18.33 | soulless | i think the whole challenge of finding ways to predict an "event" would be the fun part of the project |
| 02:18.55 | d03boy | you'd likely have to build in an aspect of AI |
| 02:19.00 | packetthirst | maybe someone should port that boob fondling iphone app to android :-D |
| 02:20.39 | soulless | that can wait til we get haptic tactile screens ;) |
| 02:22.10 | packetthirst | oh yeah, im already getting a lotta ideas |
| 02:24.24 | packetthirst | wonder if there was a database somewhere with dimensions of various celebrity boobies... |
| 02:25.15 | soulless | their implant specs.. then you order the same one and put a bluetooth chip in it ;) |
| 02:25.32 | packetthirst | hehe |
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| 02:26.59 | Disconnect | jasta: fyi (from 30 mins or so ago) last time i checked android market it showed me things like chromium. except its the windows version. (and other similar "applications") |
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| 02:29.47 | covalentbond | anyone know if Thrift works (data structure side) under Android? |
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| 02:57.29 | gambler | covalentbond_, yep |
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| 03:34.29 | living_sword | what is the max external memory size that android can address ? |
| 03:34.43 | plusminus_ | sd-card ? |
| 03:34.50 | plusminus_ | 8gb as far as I've heard |
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| 03:36.01 | illuminum | what's up with that limitation, don't 16gb microsd cards exist |
| 03:36.06 | living_sword | i wonder if it would take a firmware update to take it to 16 gb ? or is it currently possible ? |
| 03:39.46 | d03boy | too bad it just doesnt have a 16gb hard drive |
| 03:39.57 | wastrel | hard drive bad |
| 03:40.01 | d03boy | why |
| 03:40.07 | illuminum | are you kidding? sd cards > hard drive |
| 03:40.16 | illuminum | you can have 160 gigs if you have 20 sd cards |
| 03:40.17 | wastrel | big, eats power, delicate |
| 03:40.26 | illuminum | plus what wastrel said |
| 03:40.29 | d03boy | illuminum, that is easily the worst argument ever, haha |
| 03:40.33 | plusminus_ | illuminum: yeah seems to be raised to 16 gb with a formware-upgrade |
| 03:41.15 | illuminum | well perhaps you can have 1 160 gig sd card once they get up that high and the kernel/fw whatevz supports it ne oniichan? |
| 03:43.32 | Adamant | flash drives are great, but only if they have the right level of capacity. |
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| 03:55.12 | plusminus_ | anyone got SmsManager.sendDataMessage(....); working ? |
| 04:10.52 | f00f- | curious |
| 04:10.55 | f00f- | what is sendDataMessagE? |
| 04:10.58 | f00f- | sending SMS to a port? |
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| 04:36.05 | muthu_ | Evolution doesn't seem to have separate mail boxes like Thunderbird.. Any ideas? |
| 04:38.48 | gdsx | muthu_: "stop using evolution?" |
| 04:39.13 | muthu_ | ubuntu came with it |
| 04:39.26 | gdsx | muthu_: apt-get --purge remove evolution; apt-get install thunderbird |
| 04:39.32 | muthu_ | thought why not try it, instead of downloading thunderbird |
| 04:39.40 | muthu_ | gdsx: hehe |
| 04:39.42 | umdk1d3 | rolls in |
| 04:39.48 | gdsx | stopped using Evolution a long while ago (admittedly, though, I don't know if it got better in the meanwhile) |
| 04:39.55 | muthu_ | me too |
| 04:40.36 | muthu_ | a single view for all accounts.. hmmm |
| 04:40.54 | gdsx | muthu_: also, according to bugzilla, the TBird folks are _finally_ planning on fixing the modal dialog stuff. Once that's done, I should be golden |
| 04:42.28 | muthu_ | yup, like thunderbird |
| 04:43.03 | muthu_ | wonder why ubuntu bundles only firefox and not tbird |
| 04:44.27 | gdsx | muthu_: my first guess is that Evolution is more akin to Outlook (that is, it does calendaring and all that stuff also) |
| 04:45.09 | living_sword | umm... android cannot read more than 8 Gb memory. it doesnt recognise the card of greater cap. |
| 04:45.15 | living_sword | i wonder why then a Google spokesperson said 16 gb microSDHC would work out-of-box |
| 04:46.52 | cbeust_ | Some of us are using 16G, we didn't extensively test them, that's all. But they work |
| 04:47.39 | living_sword | thanx for the info |
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| 04:55.23 | muthu_ | seriously doubt that evolution will lack multiple account view |
| 04:55.33 | muthu_ | prolly missing something here.. |
| 04:57.01 | muthu_ | more than a week productivity is gone, since my fedora failed on me |
| 04:57.20 | muthu_ | hehe.. this is fun too |
| 04:57.46 | muthu_ | so far ubuntu has crashed once |
| 04:57.56 | muthu_ | hope it doesn't happen often |
| 04:58.35 | illuminum | ubuntu sounds like papua new guinea |
| 04:59.01 | muthu_ | ubuntu sounds like a chennai slang |
| 04:59.43 | muthu_ | its sounds similar to "dubuku" |
| 05:00.09 | muthu_ | à®à®ªà¯à®©à¯à®à¯ |
| 05:00.56 | gambler | ubuntu in english reminds me of a word I cant remember |
| 05:01.04 | gambler | but it conjures the mental image of someone vomiting |
| 05:01.28 | gambler | ive always thought it was a weird name |
| 05:01.31 | muthu_ | lol |
| 05:01.42 | muthu_ | that's ewwwwbuntu |
| 05:02.37 | gambler | yo SanMehat you around? |
| 05:03.27 | illuminum | it just conjures images of naked pigmies in my mind |
| 05:03.34 | illuminum | beating on drums |
| 05:04.14 | gambler | I cant remember...I think in my primary school that bunt was slang for dry heave ...It was so long ago Ive forgotten |
| 05:11.04 | gambler | this is a bit funny http://lwn.net/Articles/296040/ ...read the 1st comment |
| 05:17.58 | snadge | ubuntu sounds like an african word which means humanity unto others.. or, i am who i am because of who we all are ;) |
| 05:19.40 | snadge | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODQ4WiDsEBQ |
| 05:25.21 | gambler | so Nelson Mandela is a linux user...I wonder if he is a kde or gnome person |
| 05:29.06 | snadge | obviously gnome |
| 05:29.28 | snadge | it is the choice of free software advocates |
| 05:30.00 | gambler | yah i just read on his twitter that hes shitty with the bugs in kde 4.x |
| 05:30.20 | gambler | but im not sure how you can say gnome is more free than kde |
| 05:30.53 | gambler | i thought they were both a mixture of gpl/lgpl code |
| 05:31.07 | snadge | because the toolkit that its chosen.. qt, is dual licensed |
| 05:31.43 | snadge | gpl and something else.. whereas gtk, is lgpl |
| 05:32.56 | snadge | now if gpl was the only license for QT.. it would technically be more free than GTK |
| 05:33.11 | snadge | but it isnt, so it isnt ;) |
| 05:34.35 | snadge | in my books thats almost reason enough alone to boycott kde |
| 05:35.06 | snadge | but i think the more important reason.. is that it sucks |
| 05:35.31 | summatusmentis | ... I don't understand that mentality... how is dual licensing not free? it's available under gpl... |
| 05:35.43 | gambler | summatusmentis, dogma. |
| 05:36.00 | summatusmentis | dogma? |
| 05:36.23 | snadge | qt is only free if you wish to use it to write free software |
| 05:36.38 | snadge | gtk has no such restriction because it uses the lgpl |
| 05:36.49 | snadge | pretty damned simple really ;) |
| 05:37.13 | summatusmentis | so the viral portion of gpl is lost, because of dual licensing |
| 05:37.32 | snadge | thats right, if you're going to use the gpl.. use it properly |
| 05:38.18 | snadge | i also frown on mysql for using this tactic |
| 05:38.25 | snadge | i still use it anyway though |
| 05:38.26 | muthu_ | is there a license, which is *totally* free? |
| 05:38.36 | summatusmentis | meh, I feel like it being gpl is good enough... it's available, it's not as though they're not providing source |
| 05:38.55 | muthu_ | is android plugin available for netbeans? |
| 05:38.57 | summatusmentis | muthu_: depends on your definition of free I suppose |
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| 05:39.13 | muthu_ | summatusmentis: free as in free, no strings attached whatsoever |
| 05:39.15 | snadge | good enough maybe .. but when theres a solution (ie gtk) thats less restrictive.. then as far as im concerned, thats even better than good enough |
| 05:39.26 | f00f- | nothing is free in this world |
| 05:39.28 | snadge | aka public domain |
| 05:39.44 | muthu_ | f00f-: air is free |
| 05:39.47 | muthu_ | hehe |
| 05:39.52 | summatusmentis | muthu_: some would argue a bsd license is 'free' because you can do whatever youw ant |
| 05:39.56 | gambler | not in total recall |
| 05:39.57 | f00f- | for now, muthu, for now :D |
| 05:40.00 | snadge | not really.. you still have to expend the energy required to expand and contract your lungs |
| 05:40.08 | snadge | and then your body requires energy also to process this oxygen |
| 05:40.20 | snadge | so breathing costs effort :P |
| 05:40.57 | muthu_ | snadge: free has nothing to do with effort ;) |
| 05:41.52 | muthu_ | shit! 8k messages are downloading to evolution |
| 05:42.08 | muthu_ | into a single inbox |
| 05:42.29 | gambler | how many free ringtones did you sign up for |
| 05:43.11 | snadge | if QT was BSD licensed.. its freeness wouldn't be an issue |
| 05:43.31 | snadge | but of all things.. its gplv3.. the most poisonous of them all |
| 05:43.41 | snadge | hehe |
| 05:44.22 | muthu_ | plusminus should be working for google android. seriously. |
| 05:45.07 | muthu_ | wth is the goog hr doing? |
| 05:45.52 | muthu_ | now is the time to ramp up.. and go all out for v2 |
| 05:47.31 | muthu_ | http://androidcommunity.com/t-mobile-g1-hands-on-including-award-winning-android-app-feature-shopsavvy-20080929/ |
| 05:49.09 | f00f- | v2 ? |
| 05:49.40 | muthu_ | yeah, android 2 |
| 05:50.12 | muthu_ | quickly get in bluetooth, video recording, xmpp etc., |
| 05:50.58 | muthu_ | and add multitouch |
| 05:51.00 | f00f- | ADC II |
| 05:51.03 | f00f- | not "p2" either :P |
| 05:51.08 | muthu_ | lol |
| 05:51.10 | f00f- | yeah i don't know what to brew up for ADC II |
| 05:51.21 | f00f- | will need to get some more juicy details before i get my hopes up |
| 05:51.22 | muthu_ | f00f-: i'm waiting for the adc 2 rules |
| 05:51.28 | muthu_ | hope nothing krazy in it |
| 05:51.28 | f00f- | aye |
| 05:51.43 | f00f- | shouldn't be any |
| 05:51.44 | muthu_ | meanwhile working on mobeegal for market launch |
| 05:51.54 | f00f- | nice, how far away are you? |
| 05:52.09 | muthu_ | still early |
| 05:52.13 | muthu_ | but we are getting there |
| 05:52.18 | f00f- | you promised to launch in like august?! |
| 05:52.19 | muthu_ | you want to join our team? |
| 05:52.32 | f00f- | if i had no other projects, yes :) |
| 05:52.49 | f00f- | i got plenty on my plate right now :X |
| 05:52.49 | muthu_ | this should be your major project :) |
| 05:52.54 | f00f- | haha |
| 05:53.09 | muthu_ | i know.. all androids are busy ;) |
| 05:53.26 | f00f- | as if we should be so lucky |
| 05:53.33 | f00f- | hopefully something comes out of this blood and sweat |
| 05:53.46 | muthu_ | its going to fantastic |
| 05:53.50 | muthu_ | just keep at it |
| 05:54.14 | muthu_ | i can go back to coding, if only my os can behave! |
| 05:54.36 | f00f- | i missed PuTTY in windows, so i went back :D |
| 05:54.58 | muthu_ | haha |
| 05:55.19 | muthu_ | the evil thought crossed my mind |
| 05:55.25 | muthu_ | but i quickly shut it down |
| 05:56.37 | f00f- | hehe |
| 05:57.24 | muthu_ | ubuntu is great.. almost, except for that crash |
| 05:57.32 | f00f- | doing an upgrade? |
| 05:57.57 | muthu_ | and this is an holiday month here in india |
| 05:58.16 | muthu_ | ramzan, gandhi jayanthi, diwali.. |
| 05:58.35 | f00f- | yeah i heard about that temple stampede, too |
| 05:58.42 | muthu_ | terrible |
| 05:58.53 | muthu_ | everymonth one of the temple stampede happens |
| 05:59.22 | muthu_ | there's this famous temple in tirupati |
| 05:59.31 | muthu_ | you wouldn't believe the kinda crowd there |
| 05:59.40 | f00f- | for religious occasions? or all the time? |
| 05:59.46 | muthu_ | ALL the time |
| 05:59.52 | muthu_ | occasions.. man! |
| 05:59.57 | muthu_ | don't even think about it |
| 06:00.06 | f00f- | hopefully they have some crowd control.. |
| 06:00.12 | muthu_ | yeah, they do |
| 06:00.27 | f00f- | but yeah it can be tough, depending on how many police, etc. there are |
| 06:00.37 | f00f- | sometimes you can't anticipate |
| 06:00.43 | muthu_ | no police |
| 06:00.46 | muthu_ | all temple staff |
| 06:01.04 | muthu_ | but only indians can survive it |
| 06:01.56 | muthu_ | its depressing to pick the papers these days |
| 06:02.14 | f00f- | yeah :/ |
| 06:02.22 | muthu_ | stampede, riots, blasts, communal violence, wall shit screwups |
| 06:02.54 | f00f- | i kinda want my ADC II project to revolve around the "rest of the world" |
| 06:03.09 | muthu_ | what's the plan? |
| 06:03.28 | f00f- | i don't know, something about `green` and microeconomics maybe, dont know |
| 06:03.38 | muthu_ | green will win |
| 06:03.45 | f00f- | helping non-cash economies? still scouting. |
| 06:03.51 | f00f- | actually havent' started thinking until 5 minutes ago |
| 06:04.19 | muthu_ | an android app which transfers funds to your home locker before the banks gets busted will be a big hit |
| 06:04.47 | f00f- | yeah, especially if wall street starts tanking cyclically from this point on |
| 06:04.58 | muthu_ | its tanking |
| 06:05.47 | muthu_ | heard homes are as cheap as 75$ |
| 06:06.04 | f00f- | 75 dalla'? |
| 06:06.07 | muthu_ | yeah |
| 06:06.11 | muthu_ | 75 dolla |
| 06:06.20 | f00f- | must be out in the sticks |
| 06:06.21 | f00f- | but i believe it |
| 06:06.24 | f00f- | so |
| 06:06.28 | f00f- | do you know stockton? |
| 06:06.32 | f00f- | it's like up north here in the bay |
| 06:06.40 | muthu_ | yeah |
| 06:06.47 | f00f- | about two months ago, there were houses going for $25,000 up there |
| 06:06.58 | muthu_ | yup, this is a good time to think about buying |
| 06:07.00 | f00f- | like decent 2 bedrooms |
| 06:07.09 | f00f- | use your ADC winnings to go into real estate |
| 06:07.12 | f00f- | trust me, you won't fail |
| 06:07.13 | muthu_ | i'll say jun 2009 is the perfect time |
| 06:07.33 | f00f- | yeah |
| 06:07.34 | muthu_ | f00f-: agree, buying now is a smart move |
| 06:07.41 | f00f- | it's going to be hard to get credit |
| 06:07.45 | f00f- | esp. for first time buyers |
| 06:07.46 | muthu_ | still not bottom.. but close |
| 06:07.50 | f00f- | yeah |
| 06:08.02 | muthu_ | how much in SF? |
| 06:08.23 | f00f- | way too much to even consider in living in that yuppyville |
| 06:08.23 | f00f- | BUT |
| 06:08.25 | f00f- | i'm sure it has dropped |
| 06:08.30 | f00f- | to reasonable rates :) |
| 06:08.34 | muthu_ | rite |
| 06:08.49 | f00f- | i'm eyeing the peninsula (west bay) one day |
| 06:08.59 | muthu_ | buy in summer next year |
| 06:09.22 | f00f- | yeah i'm working on balancing between saving and playing the market |
| 06:09.53 | muthu_ | dublin is a nice place |
| 06:10.20 | f00f- | isn't that oracletown or is that sybaseville? |
| 06:10.20 | muthu_ | its got everything |
| 06:10.27 | muthu_ | sybase |
| 06:10.46 | f00f- | i'd say there's nothing out there, sine i'm from east bay |
| 06:10.51 | f00f- | not *that* far east as dublin :) |
| 06:10.51 | muthu_ | hehe |
| 06:11.03 | f00f- | but i need to give an objective look at it |
| 06:11.18 | muthu_ | its nice |
| 06:11.41 | muthu_ | everything is closer |
| 06:11.51 | muthu_ | you don't need mobeegal there ;) |
| 06:11.52 | muthu_ | lol |
| 06:12.14 | f00f- | yeah, screw pednav too |
| 06:12.19 | f00f- | everything is within arm's length reach! |
| 06:12.20 | muthu_ | haha |
| 06:12.30 | muthu_ | that's the best part in dublin |
| 06:12.37 | muthu_ | i felt right in |
| 06:12.51 | f00f- | i never figured out if it had a downtown or not |
| 06:12.59 | muthu_ | it has |
| 06:13.03 | muthu_ | pretty small |
| 06:13.08 | f00f- | i guess i'm thinking dublin == pleasanton |
| 06:13.31 | muthu_ | yeah, dublin/pleasanton |
| 06:13.32 | f00f- | i know dublin is full of auto dealers |
| 06:14.34 | muthu_ | a lot |
| 06:15.02 | muthu_ | f00f-: got a G1? |
| 06:15.24 | f00f- | muthu_: nope, i need to go to the store and get one on the 22nd :/ |
| 06:15.38 | umdk1d3 | nobody replied from google? |
| 06:15.46 | f00f- | yeah, they said 'no' |
| 06:15.50 | umdk1d3 | ouch :/ |
| 06:15.53 | f00f- | i should have lied upfront |
| 06:16.07 | f00f- | oh well, at least know i get to work harder |
| 06:16.23 | f00f- | hopefully i can get root access on the consumer device |
| 06:16.29 | f00f- | 'su' :P |
| 06:16.35 | snadge | what are the chances of the federal reserve being disbanded within the next decade? |
| 06:16.44 | muthu_ | http://www.mrwiggleslovesyou.com/comics/rehab477.jpg |
| 06:16.45 | umdk1d3 | i seriously doubt root on consumer devices :/ |
| 06:17.02 | f00f- | umdk1d3: since that would totally help in debugging |
| 06:17.09 | snadge | google should declare war on the banking system :P |
| 06:17.10 | f00f- | i wonder if we'll even be able to do remote on-device debugging |
| 06:17.28 | umdk1d3 | f00f-: the debugging+logcat all happens in userspace |
| 06:17.53 | f00f- | oh, so did you figure out a way to retreive the logcat from an app? |
| 06:17.57 | f00f- | or does it need some system privs |
| 06:18.11 | snadge | even better.. google should start its own bank, with the intention of performing a hostile takeover of the federal reserve banks.. and ultimately controlling the world economy ;) (shuts up now) |
| 06:18.16 | umdk1d3 | i asked in here a few days ago, but havent looked any further past that |
| 06:18.24 | umdk1d3 | there was a DUMP permission iirc |
| 06:18.44 | f00f- | ah interesting, maybe you need to construct logcat-like logs yourself from a dump |
| 06:18.57 | muthu_ | snadge: federal reserve banks are doing fine.. aren't they? |
| 06:20.08 | muthu_ | shopsavvy is the only app which is seeing some action |
| 06:20.23 | muthu_ | wonder what the other 20, or 50 is doing? |
| 06:20.36 | f00f- | umdk1d3: did you get your stuff squared away for that deadline? |
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| 06:20.55 | f00f- | muthu_: i'm sure the lucky ones are playing with their devices ;) |
| 06:21.05 | muthu_ | oh yeah |
| 06:21.09 | muthu_ | forgot about NDA |
| 06:21.46 | umdk1d3 | muthu_: i think they are kinda pushing the envelope with showing off their app |
| 06:21.56 | umdk1d3 | with regards to the tmobile nda they signed |
| 06:22.06 | umdk1d3 | maybe they agreed to someone else now, idk |
| 06:22.12 | f00f- | i'm very curious about the backend scalability of all these apps |
| 06:22.21 | umdk1d3 | mine scales ^.^ |
| 06:22.22 | f00f- | although i doubt there'll be as big an influx of users as with the iPhone |
| 06:22.32 | f00f- | and mine *will* scale soon too :P |
| 06:23.23 | muthu_ | umdk1d3: yeah, not sure what the tmo nda is |
| 06:23.38 | f00f- | i found this great graph library for java and am excited to see how it'll perform with some real-world data |
| 06:23.50 | muthu_ | no point in worrying about scaling now |
| 06:23.59 | muthu_ | focus on the functions |
| 06:24.07 | f00f- | totally |
| 06:31.19 | muthu_ | Oct 2, all wineshops are closed in India |
| 06:32.36 | f00f- | there's some announcement coming oct 2nd |
| 06:32.41 | f00f- | for what occasion muthu? |
| 06:33.39 | muthu_ | gandhi birthdate |
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| 07:47.39 | ezak | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:47.43 | ezak | sorry |
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| 08:03.33 | ezak | is gone.. autoaway after 15 min ..[cyp(l/on.p/on)] |
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| 08:27.48 | dhairya | Hi all, is there any Android App developed for Chinese / Japanese Text Input ? |
| 08:38.47 | dhairya | ? |
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| 10:28.58 | fearphage | jasta: we were talking about the g1's chipset. do you have any more detailed info about that? |
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| 10:39.21 | montamer | hi how can i extract differences patween two folders? |
| 10:40.57 | montamer | into a patch |
| 10:40.58 | montamer | ? |
| 10:52.39 | loke__ | montamer: diff |
| 10:58.24 | montamer | @loke__ thanx i will look into the diff man page |
| 11:08.28 | loke__ | good look |
| 11:08.38 | loke__ | check out "context diff", that's what patch is using |
| 11:08.45 | loke__ | it's -c to dif, IIRC |
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| 11:37.10 | Acsia | is there a way to wait for the mapview to load? |
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| 12:15.32 | Millow | anything new on android + htc diamond? |
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| 12:28.23 | Disconnect | loke__: diff -ur folder.old folder.new |
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| 12:30.29 | fearphage | Millow: htc touch pro would be sexier |
| 12:30.44 | Millow | fearphage: I like the diamond better |
| 12:31.18 | Millow | would like an iphone but we don't use the swedish iphone carrier at work so I choose HTC Diamond |
| 12:31.29 | Millow | but I'd love to use android instead of windows mobile |
| 12:31.30 | Millow | :) |
| 12:32.50 | fearphage | i hate what apple is doing to the iphone |
| 12:33.00 | fearphage | i got a chance to play with an unlocked iphone and i was amazed |
| 12:33.08 | fearphage | the current state of the locked iphone is abysmal |
| 12:33.28 | fearphage | the iphone has lots of potential but you are locked under Apple's thumb of control |
| 12:35.35 | gambler | fearphage, what did you think was so great about the unlocked iphone |
| 12:35.52 | fearphage | what it can do when allowed |
| 12:36.00 | fearphage | the power applications had |
| 12:36.20 | fearphage | although the basic app store api is very locked down |
| 12:36.33 | fearphage | shell access |
| 12:36.35 | gambler | anything specific? |
| 12:36.49 | gambler | im curious I havent really followed the iphone |
| 12:36.58 | fearphage | interfacing with gps, cameras, the disk, and things |
| 12:37.01 | fearphage | let me find one |
| 12:37.27 | fearphage | one major thing is you can use your phone as a blueetooth modem for internet connectivity from a laptop |
| 12:38.04 | gambler | does the iphone sdk let you write code in languages beside obj-c? |
| 12:38.24 | loke__ | gambler: not to my knowledge |
| 12:38.25 | fearphage | no, why would apple give you options? they dictate. you follow |
| 12:39.13 | gambler | ok just asking. I assumed iphone was just a *nix distro with something shiny on top like OSX |
| 12:39.47 | Disconnect | fearphage: so tethering (which tends to be a provider choice these days, rather than hw vendor) is the new 'killer app' for jailbroken iphones? thats kinda sad :( |
| 12:41.05 | fearphage | no, thats just what came to mind off the top of my head |
| 12:41.08 | loke__ | gambler: well, in a way it is. It's heavily locked down though and I don't believe you can even touch the underlying OS |
| 12:41.32 | loke__ | (unless you break it) |
| 12:42.01 | loke__ | Disconnect: well, are there any other phones except for the iphone that is locked down like that? |
| 12:42.15 | loke__ | i mean, finding ways to block voip apps and such |
| 12:42.20 | Disconnect | loke__: actually, most tmob phones are -worse-. |
| 12:42.33 | Disconnect | even the gmail app doesn't work (not signed by tmob == no net access) |
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| 12:43.11 | loke__ | Disconnect: ohh ok, but that's limited to the subsidised phoned right? I mean, you can always go and buy the non-crippled version if you pay full price for the hardware |
| 12:44.09 | Disconnect | the only reason i'm still with tmob is we've got an antique cheap-as-dirt family plan with a ton of freebies.. can't get within $30 a month on any other provider :( |
| 12:44.25 | loke__ | Disconnect: so what phone do you use with them then? |
| 12:45.18 | Disconnect | she's got a $60 unlocked blackberry off woot and i'm dumping a nokia e90 (nokia support is terrible, and they won't even sell me the 'disposable' parts i need.) |
| 12:45.27 | Disconnect | her bb happens to be tmob-branded but.. |
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| 12:45.51 | loke__ | Disconnect: I really like my E61, but it's getting very broken by now |
| 12:45.53 | Disconnect | hasn't used "standard" provider phones in years, i think the last one was a t910. |
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| 12:45.58 | loke__ | best app for it: Fring |
| 12:46.26 | loke__ | I can see how a provider would try to stop such app if they had control over the phones |
| 12:47.25 | loke__ | Disconnect: but if tmobile is so bad, how come they of all people paid to get an exclusive on the android phone? I mean, they don't have any control over the apps there |
| 12:47.34 | Disconnect | yah that was surprising |
| 12:47.41 | Disconnect | i suspect its a direct response to the appstore |
| 12:47.49 | loke__ | well, obviousl |
| 12:48.10 | Disconnect | (i was -really- surprised when gmail didn't work.. she only runs about 4 add-on apps, and gmail is the big one. we took it back that night..) |
| 12:48.23 | Disconnect | not in the usual way - people who want an iphone aren't going to buy a g1. |
| 12:48.25 | loke__ | I did read something that tmobile wanted to stop voip apps as well... Now, does that mean that the tmobile branded ones will have some kind of lock? |
| 12:48.43 | Disconnect | loke__: tmob can stop voip the easy way - in their network |
| 12:49.11 | Disconnect | but they do the roaming phones already (forget what its called, the ones that can switch back and forth between voip and cell automatically) |
| 12:49.23 | Disconnect | so i think they made their peace with that aspect of it |
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| 12:51.06 | Disconnect | random g1 question (since the google auth seems to be broken on my emulator) .. can you have different google accounts for calendar and mail? (or multiple gmail accounts).. otherwise i've got some hard decisions to make :( |
| 12:51.42 | loke__ | Disconnect: how? |
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| 12:52.08 | loke__ | Disconnect: sure they can block whatever protcol SIP uses, but how could they block whatever new protocol pops up? |
| 12:53.08 | loke__ | I have an unlimited dataplan for my mobile phone, I could use that thing as my primary internet if I wanted to |
| 12:53.21 | Disconnect | one or two users isn't a big deal. and once it gets beyond that the traffic analysis tools highlight it, and its a matter of minutes (on the tech side) and a couple of meetings to add a filter that disrupts or destroys it |
| 12:54.03 | loke__ | Disconnect: are the unlimited dataplans in the us, "true" unlimited plans? |
| 12:54.10 | Disconnect | yes and no |
| 12:54.12 | loke__ | or do they cap? |
| 12:54.41 | Disconnect | yes, there are no overage charges. but no, most providers say if you use too much bandwidth (by whatever defintion - average bps over time, total rx/tx, etc) you get throttled |
| 12:54.59 | Disconnect | take a look at the press about tmoble g1 and the 1gig limit for some decent background (fairly recent story) |
| 12:55.12 | loke__ | ok, throttle is OK i guess for most purposes (if the cap is high enough). Outright block or overcharge is bad |
| 12:55.21 | loke__ | Disconnect: 1 GB limit? |
| 12:55.24 | loke__ | w t f? |
| 12:55.25 | Disconnect | (fwiw a heavy-use iphone coworker of mine had only used about 200M on his phone in about 1.5-2 months) |
| 12:55.28 | Disconnect | 1gb per month |
| 12:55.42 | loke__ | I use way more than that every month on my Nokia, and I don't do much |
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| 12:56.44 | Disconnect | should find the counter on the e90 |
| 12:57.25 | loke__ | It's on my bill every month... it contains a line for my bandwidth charge (always damn high) and then there is a line with the discount which is the same amount |
| 12:59.37 | Disconnect | looks like i'm about 600 megs in about a month. so it'll be a lot higher with the g1, at least at first. |
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| 13:01.06 | loke__ | Disconnect: is there still no information on the public availability of the android phone? |
| 13:01.16 | Disconnect | no it got released |
| 13:01.24 | Disconnect | preorder opened, then ran out, but might be open again. |
| 13:01.29 | loke__ | Disconnect: i mean, one that is not operator-locked |
| 13:01.30 | Disconnect | shipping to arrive on the 23rd |
| 13:01.45 | Disconnect | ahh. i think the word was $600USD after the 23rd for unlocked-no-contract |
| 13:01.56 | loke__ | that's ok |
| 13:02.04 | ulmen | 400 afair |
| 13:02.09 | Disconnect | or just wait 90 days and get a used one unlocked (tmob's policy is 90 days before they'll unlock) |
| 13:02.26 | Disconnect | ulmen: i thought $400 was locked, just inelegible for contract extensions |
| 13:02.38 | plusminus_ | Disconnect: that means one can jump out of the contract for X dollars ? |
| 13:02.45 | loke__ | I can wait a few months, but my poor nokia is really dying on me... A few people in the pffice have gone for the E71, which is a mighty fine phone, but I want the android :-) |
| 13:02.57 | Disconnect | http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/23/t-mobiles-cto-on-g1-unlocking-and-tethering-plus-a-few-detai/ ok .. $400 and then wait the 90 days |
| 13:03.03 | ulmen | Disconnect: might be right, 400 is without contract but may have to be unlocked too ... no idea |
| 13:04.00 | ulmen | i also read somewhere htc will be buiding a very similar phone and sell it on its own |
| 13:04.12 | Disconnect | loke__: want to buy an e90? works great except the headset speaker (the standard non-speakerphone speaker) is shot. nokia support (esp if you have walk-in locations) might replace it cheap/free - its considered 'disposable' and should be replaced every time the handset is opened by nok. |
| 13:04.31 | loke__ | Disconnect: you want to sell me yours? |
| 13:04.37 | Disconnect | ya |
| 13:04.49 | Disconnect | i won't need it in a few weeks. and if it comes down to it, i can spend that time using my 9300i again |
| 13:04.51 | loke__ | Hmm... It's a bit big isn't it? |
| 13:04.54 | loke__ | How much for it? |
| 13:05.46 | Disconnect | lemme see what its worth btu its a little big. not totally huge but.. lemme find the size comparison. |
| 13:05.57 | loke__ | Disconnect: well, I've seen it |
| 13:06.46 | Disconnect | http://www.esato.com/phones/index.php/phone=333,cp=189 |
| 13:07.02 | loke__ | I'd consider it... Let me put it this way: if, after the g1 release, information comes out that says they have some kind of 1-year exclusive agreement with locked-only phones or whatever (in order words, no way for me to buy it) AND you still happen to have yur E90, then I'll buy it from you |
| 13:07.43 | Disconnect | heh sounds good |
| 13:08.14 | Disconnect | i'm willing to sell sooner - having to use bt headsets annoys me - but its not going anywhere (unlesss someone else buys it, but i'm not shopping it that hard) |
| 13:08.24 | loke__ | speaking of that though, I'm suprised that HTC would go into an agreement with tmobile that effecively prevents them from taking my money :-) |
| 13:08.35 | loke__ | I'd love to read the agreement between htc and tmobile |
| 13:08.47 | Disconnect | oh random side note (and how it got busted :) ..) its brown, with a red front bezel. although i can put the brown back on. |
| 13:09.05 | loke__ | Disconnect: if you sell to someone else, fine. :-) but if you still have it, i'll probably take it |
| 13:09.09 | Disconnect | cool |
| 13:10.27 | loke__ | For now, I'll go back to keeping my fingers crossed that tmobile didn't pay htc to keep the "non-operator-locked" phones off the market |
| 13:11.24 | loke__ | Disconnect: btw, it's a standard E90, right? quad-band so it'll actually work at full HSDPA speeds outside the us? |
| 13:12.01 | Disconnect | yah got it from someone who picked it up overseas (which is why nok usa won't touch it, even for money) |
| 13:12.11 | loke__ | oh |
| 13:12.33 | loke__ | I've had pretty good experience with nokia supprot here, they took my support calls without even verifying that I have a phone :-) |
| 13:12.38 | Disconnect | cool |
| 13:15.39 | loke__ | oh |
| 13:15.43 | loke__ | motorola android phones... |
| 13:15.44 | loke__ | but when? |
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| 13:39.51 | monteslu | romainguy, I got the dojo guys to add support for android to gfx, but it has to fall back to Canvas. Which means I can render really cool images, but no text rotation or events |
| 13:40.01 | monteslu | android's browser really, really needs SVG :) |
| 13:40.53 | monteslu | or VML, I guess. But SVG is doesn't drink the MS koolaid |
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| 13:49.09 | andylockran | howdy |
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| 14:35.10 | pardom | question not really related to android: |
| 14:35.26 | pardom | has anyone heard of the roaming hack to get out of etf? |
| 14:35.36 | pardom | or had any experience with it? |
| 14:37.18 | kslater | here's something I can't seem to find an answer to - will applications be able to be loaded locally? That is, not via download from an app store, but say loaded from the sd card for example? |
| 14:37.29 | pardom | yes |
| 14:37.46 | kslater | cool |
| 14:37.59 | kslater | one less impediment to getting the G1 |
| 14:41.02 | pardom | does anyone have a 1.0 example of sqlite that doesn't use a content provider |
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| 14:51.41 | yakischloba | pardom: I think the Notepad example uses sqlite without a content provider |
| 14:52.00 | pardom | it uses i content provider |
| 14:52.05 | yakischloba | oh |
| 14:52.08 | pardom | :( |
| 14:52.20 | yakischloba | well it should be pretty easy to figure out how to use it without content provider |
| 14:52.36 | jasta | pardom: do you have a specific question? |
| 14:52.39 | pardom | i just want to see good convention |
| 14:52.44 | pardom | and not hack something together |
| 14:52.49 | jasta | id ont know of any example off the top of my head, but how hard can it be to figure out? :) |
| 14:53.05 | jasta | ahh, well, look through the android apps repository |
| 14:53.08 | jasta | maybe theyve got something in there |
| 14:53.11 | yakischloba | its pretty hard to screw it up ;) |
| 14:53.36 | pardom | where's the repository? |
| 14:53.48 | jasta | you can find it on the developers blog |
| 14:53.53 | pardom | kl thx |
| 14:54.56 | jasta | one thing to consider is that you probably should be using a ContentProvider :) |
| 14:55.17 | pardom | why? i don't intent on sharing the data |
| 14:55.34 | jasta | if your data is not private by nature, it may be more useful than you'd think to export. |
| 14:55.35 | pardom | intend* |
| 14:56.54 | jasta | Photostream uses SQLite without a ContentProvider, btw. |
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| 14:57.56 | ttuttle | morrildl: greetings |
| 14:57.58 | pardom | found it, thx |
| 14:58.14 | morrildl | ttuttle: howdy |
| 14:58.19 | jasta | morrildl: hey, i've got my StreamMediaPlayer workaround moving along now. I might publish it here pretty soon once I iron out all the kinks. |
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| 14:58.48 | jasta | it's an extended MediaPlayer which adds setDataSource(RandomAccessStream) |
| 14:59.15 | morrildl | jasta: sweeeet. but it seems like it might be kind of hard to download files from IRC ;) |
| 14:59.36 | jasta | it's so slow it's unusable on the emulator, although i have tested it on a real device and for obvious reasons it performs much better there |
| 14:59.41 | jasta | thats pretty encouraging |
| 14:59.46 | morrildl | jasta: heh |
| 14:59.48 | morrildl | sounds about right |
| 15:00.33 | jasta | well, my work-around is I/O intensive, in particular because the MediaPlayer is writing its own temporary cache while I'm writing a permanent one. Also, I might even be reading from the cache at the same time in certain circumstances. |
| 15:01.22 | jasta | All this I/O going through the emulator to files on a single movable hard disk is agonizing, but on a device with two separate solid state storage mediums involved the performance is greatly improved. |
| 15:01.55 | jasta | I hadn't really considered that initially, that this type of brutal I/O will be way faster on the device than on a PC. |
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| 15:02.41 | jasta | and as for memory usage, i'm currently using HttpCore for the server, but for production I will implement my own extremely light weight server that understands just enough HTTP to make this crude trick work |
| 15:02.45 | morrildl | jasta: good thing it's linux underneath |
| 15:02.52 | jasta | why? |
| 15:03.06 | morrildl | b/c Linux has at least decent I/O performance |
| 15:03.11 | jasta | oh, yes |
| 15:03.12 | morrildl | many alternatives do not |
| 15:04.24 | jasta | i think the real win is that solid state drives have constant seek :) |
| 15:04.26 | *** join/#android unix_infidel (n=blue@unaffiliated/unixinfidel/x-8383745) |
| 15:04.51 | morrildl | that too |
| 15:05.01 | jasta | and also that there are two storage devices at play on the emulator, so its not even having to seek on one of them at all |
| 15:05.23 | jasta | the internal storage is writing the MediaPlayer's read-ahead cache, where the storage card is writing and possibly reading my cache. |
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| 15:15.02 | gambler | if a background service is generating events, whats the best way for it to drive the UI? |
| 15:15.38 | *** join/#android cbeust_ (n=cbeust@72.14.228.1) |
| 15:15.38 | jasta | do you mean binding it to an activity and communicating events to the activity for display? |
| 15:15.53 | gambler | yes exactly. |
| 15:15.53 | gambler | If I generate an Intent in my server ActivityManager gives me a Timeout executing service |
| 15:16.40 | jasta | i'm not sure what your question really is then, just define an asynchronous API in your service and have an activity use it to display results? |
| 15:16.49 | ttuttle | morrildl: How are things going? |
| 15:18.10 | zhobbs | gambler: you want to bind to your service and have async callbacks to receive the events...take a look at aidl |
| 15:18.51 | gambler | ah ok that shines a light...I didnt investigate that |
| 15:19.03 | jasta | gambler: here, i have a pretty sophisticated example of exactly this: |
| 15:19.36 | jasta | http://code.google.com/p/five/source/browse/trunk/five-client/src/org/devtcg/five/activity/SourceList.java |
| 15:20.11 | jasta | do note that this extends from my custom ServiceActivity, which is just a convenience for managing activities which critically bind to a service |
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| 15:21.45 | jasta | what it's doing is showing a simple list of sync sources and, when the service is syncing, showing its progress and results. |
| 15:22.58 | gambler | I could read the doco but where are you registering the callbacks |
| 15:23.01 | jasta | also note that this code defers a call to setContentView until after the service connection has been established so that it avoids the "flickr" of initially presenting a UI and then suddenly changing it based on the service's state |
| 15:23.35 | jasta | gambler: the callbacks are defined and implemented by .service.IMetaObserver.aidl and MetaService.java respectively |
| 15:23.52 | jasta | see the service package for a little help there |
| 15:24.27 | jasta | these are sophisticated examples, so maybe a bit hard to learn from, but the result of a heck of a lot of tinkering and tweaking so still probably worth the time to explore |
| 15:24.40 | gambler | cheers |
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| 15:31.43 | anno^da | Apple drops NDA for released software |
| 15:31.52 | anno^da | haha the pressure is increasing :-) |
| 15:32.16 | Danikar | just today? |
| 15:34.20 | anno^da | yeah |
| 15:34.27 | anno^da | http://www.tuaw.com/2008/10/01/iphone-nda-dropped/# |
| 15:34.54 | zer0her0 | dumb question, did t-mo state the unlock price(if there would be one)? |
| 15:35.09 | Acsia | ha |
| 15:35.10 | ttuttle | zer0her0: I've heard $400. |
| 15:35.13 | unix_infidel | zer0her0: iirc, 399. |
| 15:35.14 | anno^da | http://developer.apple.com/iphone/program/ |
| 15:35.23 | unix_infidel | but you can unlock a sim locked g1 after 90 days. |
| 15:35.24 | jasta | the CTO said it would be $400, but he's a CO so he's probably lying. |
| 15:35.41 | zer0her0 | well i don't have a t-mo contract nor do i want to enter into one again |
| 15:35.54 | unix_infidel | zer0her0: well you wont be able to use it on ATT |
| 15:36.10 | zer0her0 | um why? |
| 15:36.54 | unix_infidel | wonders what the "released software" caveat really means. |
| 15:36.55 | jasta | 3G frequencies are diff |
| 15:37.01 | jasta | it would work, but without 3G |
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| 15:38.47 | anno^da | unix_infidel: Well software after the release. :P |
| 15:39.23 | zer0her0 | ah ok, well tell you the truth i wouldn't even use it on ATT just wifi most likely. |
| 15:42.57 | unix_infidel | zer0her0: well it works without a SIM. |
| 15:43.29 | zer0her0 | ok cool |
| 15:43.48 | zer0her0 | sorry been busy with projects no time to read the announcements and break down of said news |
| 15:45.01 | wastrel | what android mailing lists should i be on? |
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| 15:47.52 | SanMehat | morning |
| 15:48.22 | jasta | hello :) |
| 15:48.33 | Danikar | hi |
| 15:48.46 | morrildl | wastrel: http://code.google.com/android/groups.html |
| 15:48.47 | ttuttle | SanMehat: hey |
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| 15:50.38 | SanMehat | yo |
| 15:53.27 | summatusmentis | ell all |
| 15:54.02 | summatusmentis | 'ello * |
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| 16:07.50 | unix_infidel | morrildl: did Alex from ShopSavvy get in touch with you recently? |
| 16:08.16 | jasta | those programs are going to get Android users banned from Best Buy :P |
| 16:09.18 | tethridge | I don't think best buy would want that bad press |
| 16:09.45 | tethridge | I'm not saying they aren't stupid enough to do that, just that I think ultimately it would work itself out |
| 16:09.50 | unix_infidel | jasta: well ShopSavvy polls all local retailers in your area as well as their respective online shops. |
| 16:09.53 | morrildl | jasta: I doubt anyone who would use such an app would be in Best Buy anyway. No matter what you're looking at in Best Buy, it's a pretty safe bet it's cheaper somewhere else anyway, so why bother? :) |
| 16:10.26 | anno^da | Is ShopSavvy just for US consumers ? |
| 16:10.45 | anno^da | Or is it capable of dealing with other countries as well ? |
| 16:10.47 | morrildl | unix_infidel: I am going through my enormous email backlog now, so maybe :) |
| 16:11.46 | jasta | wow, it's nice to have finally set up a gigabit network where i can actually get gigabit speeds ;) |
| 16:11.55 | jasta | instead of these crummy home networks i've dealt with up until now |
| 16:12.38 | jasta | i've got iperf reporting 988mbps transfers between all 6 servers at work |
| 16:13.05 | jasta | too bad disk perf is so bad on all but 2 of them :) |
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| 16:15.58 | jasonlee | unix_infidel: sorry to ask, but who are you? I work at big in japan and you seem to know someone? |
| 16:16.58 | romainguy | jasonlee: nice UI btw in ShopSavvy :) |
| 16:17.07 | unix_infidel | jasonlee: heh. |
| 16:18.39 | jasonlee | romainguy: thanks! Rylan has some talent at that stuff.. |
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| 16:26.49 | Disconnect | fyi most stores already have a no-photos policy; if this becomes super-popular they'll start enforcing it i suspect. |
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| 16:31.01 | tethridge | well, technically, it isn't taking a picture. It's just scanning |
| 16:31.16 | tethridge | that would be fun getting into that argument with the manager. |
| 16:31.22 | tethridge | where's the picture, eh? |
| 16:31.26 | jasta | actually, technically it _is_ taking a picture. |
| 16:31.29 | tethridge | I know |
| 16:31.52 | tethridge | but I'm thinking of making the manager prove you're taking pictures of his store |
| 16:32.08 | jasta | i think he'll probably just kick your ass out either way :) |
| 16:32.16 | tethridge | lol |
| 16:32.30 | tethridge | it they have good prices, they won't have any problems |
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| 16:36.08 | jasta | but they dont and they know that :) |
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| 16:43.52 | Disconnect | all he has to do is prove that you are waving a cameraphone around |
| 16:44.01 | Disconnect | and he doesn't even really have to prove that... |
| 16:44.23 | Danikar | all he really has to do is kick your ass out of the store. lol |
| 16:44.29 | summatusmentis | why would the store manager care? |
| 16:45.08 | Danikar | depends on wether the store manager relizes he is nothing but a peon or not. |
| 16:45.23 | morrildl | oh |
| 16:45.26 | morrildl | Hey, it's October now |
| 16:45.28 | morrildl | wow |
| 16:45.34 | ttuttle | morrildl: indeed it is |
| 16:45.41 | summatusmentis | :( means I have to pay money soon again |
| 16:46.00 | ttuttle | morrildl: I can't recall the details, but I heard some crummy cell phone was launching this month. :-P |
| 16:46.30 | summatusmentis | that one from t-mobile? yeah, I heard it's ugly, and has two different clocks on it, and can't compete with the iPhone at all |
| 16:46.41 | ttuttle | Yeah, what a shame. |
| 16:46.43 | ttuttle | ;-) |
| 16:47.14 | wastrel | 2 different clocks? |
| 16:47.38 | summatusmentis | someone on gizmodo was talking about UI design, because there's a clock widget, and a clock in the upper right corner |
| 16:47.44 | Danikar | the clock on the bar showed a different time than the big clock in the middle in one of the promo videos. |
| 16:47.55 | ttuttle | Danikar: That's likely been fixed. |
| 16:48.08 | rayado | more likely it was just photoshopped |
| 16:48.19 | ttuttle | rayado: probably not. |
| 16:48.27 | ttuttle | rayado: why go to the effort of photoshopping it when you have a real GUI? |
| 16:49.05 | *** join/#android Adamant (n=Adamant@c-98-244-152-196.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 16:49.18 | Disconnect | fwiw in the emulator its .. very wrong. |
| 16:49.45 | Disconnect | analog says 4:49, titlebar says 2:31 |
| 16:50.08 | *** join/#android romainguy (n=gfx@216.239.45.19) |
| 16:50.12 | ttuttle | ouch |
| 16:50.29 | ttuttle | romainguy: welcome back |
| 16:50.30 | ttuttle | er |
| 16:50.32 | ttuttle | fail |
| 16:51.00 | zhobbs | first thing I do after wiping the data is kill that clock...it's ugly |
| 16:51.02 | Danikar | The video on tmobile still has the 9:10 and 2:47 thing. |
| 16:51.14 | Disconnect | nice |
| 16:51.35 | *** join/#android schmylan (n=schmylan@38.114.108.2) |
| 16:52.06 | morrildl | romainguy_ loves that clock |
| 16:52.16 | morrildl | He talks about it all the time, how awesome it is |
| 16:52.20 | zhobbs | haha |
| 16:52.22 | morrildl | It's his favorite part of the UI |
| 16:52.52 | *** join/#android slux (n=slux@85-18-14-18.fastres.net) |
| 16:53.16 | ttuttle | morrildl: which one, the analog one? |
| 16:53.21 | ttuttle | morrildl: I mean, I love the Alarm Clock myself. |
| 16:53.23 | morrildl | Yup |
| 16:53.30 | morrildl | romainguy_ LOVES that home screen clock. |
| 16:53.47 | ttuttle | morrildl: It is pretty sweet. |
| 16:53.49 | morrildl | (romainguy_ is ignoring me.) |
| 16:54.11 | summatusmentis | or you know, not actually at his computer |
| 16:54.12 | ttuttle | morrildl: He may not be at his computer -- romainguy (no underscore) disconnected just a moment ago. |
| 16:54.17 | morrildl | ah |
| 16:54.34 | jasta | does he not actually love that clock, morrildl? *grin* |
| 16:55.00 | morrildl | jasta: he *loathes* that clock. |
| 16:55.13 | summatusmentis | haha, I see what u did thar |
| 16:55.17 | jasta | i got that, i was joking |
| 16:55.21 | summatusmentis | >_> |
| 16:55.22 | jasta | but yes, i hate that clock too |
| 16:55.25 | morrildl | yeah, but others aren't |
| 16:55.25 | jasta | it's hideous and out of place |
| 16:55.44 | zhobbs | jasta: agreed! |
| 16:55.48 | morrildl | I think it should have been a bug droid with his arms positioned to tell time |
| 16:55.52 | jasta | i actually don't much like the home screen this time around (*runs wildly away from romain*) |
| 16:55.56 | ttuttle | morrildl: the Alarm Clock has one like that. |
| 16:56.00 | jasta | it feels too much like the crappy windows desktop |
| 16:56.04 | ttuttle | hands jasta a collection of knives. |
| 16:56.11 | ttuttle | s/jasta/morrildl/; |
| 16:56.49 | tomgibara | About that clock: I've said this before - why can I style the alarm clock (which I will rarely if ever see) and not the clock on the home screen? |
| 16:57.00 | ttuttle | tomgibara: They're different apps. Good point though. |
| 16:57.06 | tomgibara | And why do the alarm clocks not include the homescreen clock? |
| 16:57.09 | ttuttle | tomgibara: Also, statistically, you will see the alarm clock. |
| 16:57.32 | tomgibara | ttuttle: statistically? |
| 16:57.35 | ttuttle | tomgibara: Yes. |
| 16:57.42 | jasta | i'm disappointed by the lack of flexibility that made it into the home screen for 1.0 actually |
| 16:57.45 | ttuttle | tomgibara: It's very commonly used on US phones. |
| 16:58.29 | zhobbs | jasta: widget support would be awesome |
| 16:58.37 | ttuttle | zhobbs: In due time... |
| 16:58.43 | tomgibara | ttuttle: You mean statistically, there is a high probability that a significant proportion of the population of users who own the phone will see it? |
| 16:58.50 | ttuttle | tomgibara: s/see/use/, yes. |
| 16:59.38 | morrildl | the problem is that home screen widget support requires multiple processes to be able to plug into the same view hierarchy |
| 16:59.47 | morrildl | this has security implications, to say the least |
| 16:59.57 | morrildl | it's a big enough project that it got bumped from 1.0 |
| 16:59.58 | tomgibara | morrildl: Yes romain had pointed to that |
| 17:00.06 | morrildl | a Widget API is on the roadmap |
| 17:00.13 | zhobbs | morrildl: yeah, understandable |
| 17:00.43 | tomgibara | morrildl: I suppose my core point is that the alarm app should at least have included the home screen clock. |
| 17:02.12 | morrildl | tomgibara: fair enough :) |
| 17:07.55 | zhobbs | what kind of playlists does the MediaStore parse of the /sdcard? |
| 17:08.07 | jasta | zhobbs: or how about replacing it ourgith? |
| 17:08.09 | jasta | outright* |
| 17:08.16 | zhobbs | MediaStore? |
| 17:08.26 | jasta | i was still talking about the home screen :) |
| 17:08.50 | zhobbs | one of my first ideas for adc was some kind of a unique home screen |
| 17:08.57 | jasta | probably just .pls and .m3u, although actually i dont know how it would do that very well |
| 17:08.57 | anno^da | Does someone know if there is an application in developement for recording GPS tracks? (for supporting the OpenStreetMap project or playing geocaching) |
| 17:10.15 | *** join/#android Yeggstry (n=mind@cpc1-rdng14-0-0-cust946.winn.cable.ntl.com) |
| 17:12.51 | *** join/#android Dralspire (n=dralspir@56-196.126-70.tampabay.res.rr.com) |
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| 17:26.03 | Danikar | Hey can someone tell me how to align the text in a EditText widget to the right side? |
| 17:31.44 | *** join/#android plusminus_ (i=81020c44@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-c31c10b2ae58a0f2) |
| 17:32.56 | zhobbs | wow, about time: http://developer.apple.com/iphone/program/ |
| 17:35.33 | zhobbs | wait...not sure I even understand...I first thought it meant that you could talk about the API in public |
| 17:35.37 | zhobbs | is that what it means? |
| 17:35.49 | *** join/#android chumphries_ (n=chumphri@pdpc/supporter/monthlybronze/chumphries) |
| 17:36.36 | fadden | First rule of iPhone development: don't talk about iPhone development. |
| 17:36.42 | zhobbs | haha |
| 17:36.52 | *** join/#android Adamant (n=Adamant@130.254.103.123) |
| 17:39.25 | jasta | lol |
| 17:40.22 | jasta | zhobbs: are you reading that verbiage? |
| 17:40.26 | romainguy_ | morrildl: don't get me started on the clock :)) |
| 17:40.27 | jasta | it sounds like a 15 year old wrote it. |
| 17:40.42 | romainguy_ | jasta: when 0.9 was released you seemed to like the Home screen :) |
| 17:41.01 | jasta | romainguy_: well, i like it better than M5 ;) |
| 17:41.28 | jasta | but the more i look at it i realize it's basically just the microsoft windows desktop with some simple gimmicks on top (activedesktop anyone?) |
| 17:41.44 | romainguy_ | yes, that's exactly what it is |
| 17:41.45 | jasta | but those gimmicks aren't even programmable, and so far i see only a handful of not-so-useful ones |
| 17:42.15 | *** join/#android lesceil (n=lesceil@gateway.penguincomputing.com) |
| 17:42.23 | jasta | and that clock...ugh :) |
| 17:48.31 | *** join/#android pjv_ (n=pjv@91.178.20.193) |
| 17:50.14 | monteslu | romainguy_, http://svgopen.org/2008/papers/63-How_Ajax_Changes_the_Game_for_SVG/ |
| 17:50.19 | monteslu | android is mentioned |
| 17:50.37 | monteslu | guess the author was under the same wrong assumption that I was :) |
| 17:55.34 | wastrel | svg what now? |
| 17:55.59 | romainguy_ | monteslu: that people care about SVG? :)) |
| 17:56.11 | wastrel | i like inkscape |
| 17:56.15 | monteslu | wastrel, it's missing in the android browser |
| 17:56.23 | monteslu | romainguy_, people will care more and more |
| 17:56.56 | monteslu | look at what you can do with dojox gfx, and tell me a better way of doing that |
| 17:57.05 | romainguy_ | Canvas API? |
| 17:57.13 | monteslu | Canvas API is horrible |
| 17:57.15 | monteslu | no events |
| 17:57.20 | monteslu | no text manipulation |
| 17:57.31 | monteslu | both svg and vml have it |
| 17:57.55 | fadden | SVG has had 10 years to become popular. |
| 17:58.08 | monteslu | fadden, so did ajax |
| 17:58.10 | monteslu | now it is |
| 17:58.23 | monteslu | things take time for other technologies to catch up |
| 17:58.29 | Cedric2 | Fair point |
| 17:59.39 | Cedric2 | However AJAX is an enabling technology |
| 17:59.45 | monteslu | as is svg |
| 17:59.48 | Cedric2 | is still skeptical that SVG will ever go anywhere |
| 18:00.18 | morrildl | The main problem with SVG is that it's in XML. |
| 18:00.26 | morrildl | has decided that there aren't enough XML flamewars on this channel. |
| 18:00.26 | Cedric2 | There are a lot of things that SVG cannot do well |
| 18:00.28 | romainguy_ | and a bad XML format too |
| 18:00.44 | Cedric2 | There is nothing that AJAX can't do since it's such a low-level technology |
| 18:00.51 | morrildl | Also, SVG requires that you use emacs to edit it. |
| 18:00.58 | monteslu | Cedric2, there is nothing that it can't do that canvas can |
| 18:00.59 | zer0her0 | haha |
| 18:01.05 | monteslu | yet canvas is supported by android |
| 18:01.06 | zer0her0 | morrildl: nice add |
| 18:01.17 | Cedric2 | Oh I'm not arguing that Canvas is better than SVG |
| 18:01.21 | *** join/#android romainguy (n=gfx@nat/google/x-30283265fbc03a1a) |
| 18:01.22 | rayado | more likely it was just photoshopped |
| 18:01.25 | rayado | doh |
| 18:01.32 | rayado | wrong window |
| 18:01.39 | Cedric2 | however, Canvas strikes me as a very low-level layer too, and there's a good track record that low level technologies can fare very well |
| 18:01.59 | monteslu | how is it lower level than svg? |
| 18:02.02 | Cedric2 | For example, you can do both vector and bitmap graphics on Canvas |
| 18:02.14 | monteslu | and you can add rasters to svgs |
| 18:02.29 | monteslu | and you can stretch and skew and rotate them with dojo |
| 18:02.31 | Cedric2 | Canvas is already supported by 95% of browsers out there |
| 18:02.39 | monteslu | not IE |
| 18:02.45 | Cedric2 | What you can add to a technology that doesn't exist on the web is not very relevant |
| 18:03.12 | monteslu | canvas doesn't do events, that's a big deal |
| 18:03.27 | rayado | that's not what canvas is for |
| 18:03.34 | rayado | the view hierarchy does events |
| 18:04.02 | monteslu | so, then what we write everthing for the specific platform? or in flash ? |
| 18:04.11 | rayado | the view hierarchy is more like svg than canvas |
| 18:06.20 | monteslu | if it's a small addition why not do it? Its not like its adding overhead when its not used, and its completely open |
| 18:06.43 | romainguy | monteslu: how is it a small addition? |
| 18:06.58 | monteslu | i didn't say it is. I said if it is |
| 18:07.12 | monteslu | I didn't hear that it is in fact huge |
| 18:07.30 | monteslu | and it was important enough to put in chrome |
| 18:07.36 | romainguy | Android is not Chrome |
| 18:07.42 | monteslu | i realize that |
| 18:07.49 | romainguy | we don't have the luxury of virtually unlimited storage and memory |
| 18:07.59 | monteslu | of course not |
| 18:08.01 | romainguy | even if it's just a few hundred kbytes of binaries, it's a lot |
| 18:08.11 | romainguy | I'm not saying SVG will not be supported or anything like this |
| 18:08.23 | romainguy | just that it's not as easy as turning a switch on |
| 18:08.32 | romainguy | especially considering the current spread of SVG |
| 18:08.54 | monteslu | sure, but I haven't heard a good reason why it shouldn't be supported |
| 18:09.06 | monteslu | so I'm doing my part to ask why its not there :) |
| 18:09.18 | romainguy | because there are tons of other priorities |
| 18:09.18 | Dougie187 | lol when android comes out you can implement it. |
| 18:09.19 | *** join/#android cheng (n=cheng@xhss50-60daa.wh14.tu-dresden.de) |
| 18:09.19 | Dougie187 | :) |
| 18:10.00 | monteslu | hey, if it helps. I'll try |
| 18:10.12 | monteslu | its an open spec with open implementations |
| 18:10.34 | monteslu | I'm just not a fantastic c coder |
| 18:11.17 | Kraln | hmm |
| 18:11.43 | Kraln | Should I turn android-chat into a normal chat client, and charge for it? |
| 18:12.03 | ttuttle | Kraln: Yes, and no. |
| 18:12.19 | Kraln | so I should release it for free? |
| 18:12.24 | Kraln | make me =p |
| 18:12.37 | Cedric2 | You're welcome to try :) |
| 18:12.56 | monteslu | romainguy, is there a better browser priority? Just curious as to what it is |
| 18:13.11 | *** join/#android cyrus__ (n=cyrus@c-24-20-125-119.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 18:13.11 | monteslu | the one in the sdk seems to work well |
| 18:13.18 | monteslu | other than the svg thing, of course |
| 18:13.34 | zhobbs | Kraln: if it was really good I'd pay up to $1.99 for it...but there will probably be an open source one right? |
| 18:13.44 | Kraln | zhobbs: it already is open source |
| 18:13.50 | zhobbs | ahh |
| 18:13.52 | Kraln | you know that open source does not mean freeware, right? |
| 18:14.19 | cyrus__ | Trying to do the following with the new SDK but it appears some of the options to the emulator have changed |
| 18:14.20 | cyrus__ | android-sdk_m3-rc37a/tools/emulator -sdcard card.img -console -debug-kernel |
| 18:14.34 | cyrus__ | that worked with sdk m3-rc37a |
| 18:14.44 | zhobbs | Kraln: sure, I guess you have to prove that you purchased the app to get the source? |
| 18:14.46 | cyrus__ | but the -console and -debug-kernel options are not recognized on the new version |
| 18:14.59 | Kraln | zhobbs: I'm not sure how I'm going to roll with it |
| 18:15.10 | Kraln | but lets say that source is free but if you want binaries you have to pay for them? |
| 18:15.18 | zhobbs | right |
| 18:16.54 | Disconnect | it'll take almost no time for bins to get released in that case. unless you go with something like the pine license, in which case.. hmm. you'll spend more time chasing bin distributors than coding |
| 18:17.01 | ttuttle | Kraln: That's useless... someone else will compile them and giving them out. |
| 18:17.04 | ttuttle | s/giving/give/; |
| 18:17.21 | Kraln | open source does not mean devoid of copyright |
| 18:17.34 | Kraln | I still retain copyright over the binaries generated by my source, and the name |
| 18:17.46 | Kraln | they'd have to call it something else. and change all the graphics and layouts (stuff not covered by code) |
| 18:18.00 | Kraln | and, I would point you to xchat for windows as an example |
| 18:18.02 | fadden | Kraln: the hard part is enforcing that. |
| 18:18.21 | Kraln | I'm sure that whatever store google has cooked up for android would be receptive to takedown notices. |
| 18:18.25 | Disconnect | yep. cuz that worked so well for mozilla - they spent years getting enough lawyers together to convince people they were serious, much less eventually making it happen |
| 18:18.28 | cyrus__ | anyone? |
| 18:18.45 | Disconnect | Kraln: doesn't need to be in the store for it to get distributed. |
| 18:18.51 | fadden | cyrus__: can you work without those flags? |
| 18:18.55 | Disconnect | this isn't the iphone after all :) |
| 18:19.04 | Kraln | you are talking about channels that less than 5% of consumers will take |
| 18:19.20 | Kraln | 95% of people: I WANT AN IRC CHAT CLIENT. OH LOOK THERE IS ONE FOR $1 IN THE STORE. *BUY* YAAY |
| 18:19.32 | zhobbs | Kraln: I agree |
| 18:19.35 | romainguy | you got it wrong |
| 18:19.36 | Kraln | 5% of people: I want an irc chat client, but I am too cheap to pay $1 for binaries but too stupid to compile it from source. |
| 18:19.40 | fadden | Kraln: true enough (see iTunes vs. amazon MP3) |
| 18:19.43 | cyrus__ | fadden - well I have tried to find out how I can access the console for the adb while the emulator is running, but haven't had any luck yet |
| 18:19.46 | romainguy | only 5% of cell phone users want an IRC client :) |
| 18:19.49 | zhobbs | though, that's probably more true for tetris than an IRC client |
| 18:19.53 | ulmen | oh look, there is another one for free. *notbuy* |
| 18:20.10 | fadden | cyrus__: what's special about the console? Does "adb shell" not provide what you need? |
| 18:20.17 | Kraln | romainguy: shh =p |
| 18:20.30 | Disconnect | yah. "oh wait, there's the free version without a pretty icon. even better." |
| 18:20.57 | fadden | Disconnect: I think you meant "betterer". |
| 18:21.21 | cyrus__ | fadden - not sure..never tried adb shell. let me give it a go |
| 18:24.01 | Kraln | Disconnect: see iceweasel vs firefox |
| 18:24.13 | Disconnect | right, i mentioned that earlier. |
| 18:24.14 | ulmen | Kraln: i suggest to sell a "donation"-version for a few bucks and a free version for, well, free |
| 18:24.42 | ulmen | if you app is good and i think worth some bucks, i'd happly give them away |
| 18:24.54 | Disconnect | or just bite the bullet and make it closed. |
| 18:25.14 | Disconnect | if thats what you want |
| 18:25.39 | ulmen | getting rich with some irc client won't happen i think =) |
| 18:25.54 | Disconnect | that too |
| 18:27.28 | Kraln | yeah |
| 18:27.39 | Kraln | in fact, I'd go as far as to say getting rich with some android application won't happen =p |
| 18:27.48 | tethridge | why are there only three virtual desktops on the home screen? |
| 18:27.52 | tethridge | is that configurable? |
| 18:27.52 | Kraln | which is why I'm working on an iphone game =p |
| 18:27.59 | Disconnect | sell it for $1k and give it a nice big "don't panic" button |
| 18:28.13 | Cedric2 | Kraln: ADC winnders would probably beg to differ :) |
| 18:28.14 | romainguy | tethridge: because more was too much |
| 18:28.19 | romainguy | so for 1.0, it's only 3 |
| 18:28.28 | romainguy | (too complicated to use :) |
| 18:28.32 | Kraln | Cedric2: ADC winners? You mean 3x flashlight, 4x location services, etc? |
| 18:28.37 | Kraln | that's artificial, I meant in the market |
| 18:28.45 | Cedric2 | No, I mean the apps that are sharing the prize money |
| 18:29.10 | tethridge | romainguy, I guess that means not configurable too |
| 18:29.21 | zhobbs | 3 desktops seems like more than I'll use on the phone |
| 18:29.31 | tethridge | iPhone has up to 9 |
| 18:29.33 | romainguy | tethridge: that's right |
| 18:29.48 | tethridge | of course it doesn't have the concept of the app drawer |
| 18:29.49 | Cedric2 | I'll go on record stating that "Three desktops should be enough for everybody" |
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| 18:30.06 | romainguy | tethridge: it is a bit different in that you can't really use these 9 screens freely |
| 18:30.41 | tethridge | true |
| 18:31.07 | Disconnect | Kraln: i'll spend $20 on your irc app if you get my preordered g1 to me this week :) |
| 18:31.17 | Kraln | nah |
| 18:31.25 | Kraln | busy enjoying the money my iphone app is making me =p |
| 18:31.39 | Kraln | I'm taking the wait-and-see approach to android |
| 18:31.41 | romainguy | what's your app? |
| 18:32.10 | jjshoe | Kraln what do you make roughly on it a week? |
| 18:32.13 | Kraln | romainguy: gflash+ - #1 in education |
| 18:32.38 | Kraln | jjshoe: roughly? minimum wage |
| 18:32.45 | yakischloba | Kraln: looks like #2 to me |
| 18:32.55 | tethridge | doh |
| 18:33.02 | Kraln | yakischloba: d'oh. |
| 18:33.13 | Kraln | well, it was #1 for four weeks, what can you do? =0 |
| 18:33.28 | yakischloba | har |
| 18:33.30 | tethridge | what is it. A flash card program? |
| 18:33.33 | unix_infidel | yea I was talking to a bunch of advertising guys about this. |
| 18:33.41 | Kraln | tethridge: yes |
| 18:33.43 | unix_infidel | distribution of profits is going to be much more spread out. |
| 18:33.55 | jjshoe | Kraln can't say there's anything wrong with a little extra cash, even if it's little |
| 18:34.06 | Kraln | jjshoe: minimum wage is about $13,000 a year. |
| 18:34.11 | Kraln | that's retirement funding, sir |
| 18:34.22 | unix_infidel | or a new KIA! |
| 18:34.29 | Kraln | eww. |
| 18:34.30 | unix_infidel | heh. |
| 18:34.43 | Kraln | I think the amount of people who own iphones or macs and drive kias is near zero |
| 18:35.04 | unix_infidel | meh, know a days I see people happy that they dont have to reboot their iPhones. |
| 18:35.06 | tethridge | Kraln, how is it that you are making money with a free app? |
| 18:35.15 | unix_infidel | now* |
| 18:35.15 | Kraln | mad ninja skills. |
| 18:35.19 | Kraln | or advertisements. |
| 18:35.26 | tethridge | ah |
| 18:35.48 | ulmen | i read somewhere $13,500 was the total cost of ownership for an iphone for five years ;) |
| 18:35.56 | ttuttle | ulmen: lol |
| 18:36.01 | yakischloba | hardly shocking |
| 18:36.02 | ulmen | so you can afford 5 |
| 18:36.03 | ttuttle | ulmen: Wouldn't surprise me. |
| 18:36.05 | unix_infidel | eh, it's nearly 3. |
| 18:36.35 | unix_infidel | the iPhone is much better built that the G1, imho. |
| 18:36.49 | Kraln | I wouldn't know. I can't stand at&t, I develop for ipod touch |
| 18:37.01 | ttuttle | Kraln: AT&T is better than Verizon. |
| 18:37.09 | unix_infidel | will likely get an iTouch in conjunction with the G1. |
| 18:37.17 | Kraln | my sprint deal is > * |
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| 18:51.18 | tethridge | Kraln, do you actually have a lot of people that click those ads? |
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| 18:55.15 | scatterp | hi can any one tell me when the phone will be released? |
| 18:55.27 | monteslu | oct 22 |
| 18:55.38 | scatterp | sucky ok |
| 18:55.44 | monteslu | you can order it now |
| 18:55.50 | monteslu | i did |
| 18:55.57 | scatterp | i just want the firmware :) |
| 18:56.03 | monteslu | download the sdk |
| 18:56.04 | zer0her0 | ORDER NOW operators standing by |
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| 19:06.28 | wastrel | yeep |
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| 19:19.08 | zhobbs | romainguy_: how do I disable animation caching? |
| 19:22.28 | Danikar | To distribute a android application do I just need to give the apk file in the bin directory? |
| 19:22.47 | herriojr | Wow, I just found out about .aidl and parcelables |
| 19:22.54 | herriojr | fantastic stuff |
| 19:23.03 | zhobbs | Danikar: you need to sign it...the one in /bin is a "debug" signed |
| 19:23.21 | zhobbs | used keytool and jarsigner to sign it, there's docs on it somewhere |
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| 19:30.34 | Danikar | Thanks |
| 19:30.40 | ttuttle | hey |
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| 19:37.41 | romainguy | zhobbs: why do you need to disable it? |
| 19:37.46 | romainguy | (then I'll tell you how to disable it :) |
| 19:38.23 | zhobbs | romainguy: getting OutOfMemoryExceptions when it's trying to pull/generate the cache |
| 19:38.48 | zhobbs | romainguy: well, how does the caching work? |
| 19:39.00 | romainguy | boo. your app must really be using tons of memory |
| 19:39.12 | zhobbs | I have a framelayout and I'm constantly animating different stuff in and out |
| 19:39.29 | zhobbs | what exactly does it cache? every different view that might be coming/going? |
| 19:39.59 | romainguy | android:animationCache="false" on the parent of the animated children |
| 19:40.09 | romainguy | the animation cache copies the animated views into bitmaps |
| 19:40.18 | romainguy | you'll get bad performance without it |
| 19:40.22 | zhobbs | ok, what if the view is destroyed? |
| 19:40.42 | romainguy | the cache goes away |
| 19:40.47 | romainguy | the bitmap is cached in the view |
| 19:40.50 | zhobbs | ok |
| 19:40.52 | romainguy | cf View.getDrawingCache() |
| 19:41.03 | zhobbs | generally these views are destroyed shortly after animation |
| 19:41.11 | romainguy | and you can destroy it manually |
| 19:41.42 | zhobbs | so..in java what can I be doing to leak memory? |
| 19:41.54 | romainguy | holding references to old objects |
| 19:42.14 | romainguy | for instance if you have a static field that keeps a reference to a Context object somehow, you will leak the entire activity on screen rotation |
| 19:43.03 | zhobbs | hmmm |
| 19:43.35 | zhobbs | (side note, I decided it's much easier to handle rotation manually) |
| 19:44.03 | romainguy | handling rotation manually has huge drawbacks |
| 19:44.05 | herriojr | does anyone know of a good idl/parcelable example? |
| 19:44.10 | herriojr | that runs in 1.0? |
| 19:44.26 | zhobbs | romainguy: such as? |
| 19:44.54 | romainguy | you can't use different assets as easily |
| 19:45.05 | zhobbs | yeah, that's true |
| 19:45.19 | zhobbs | dealing with different threads on rotation is a pain though... |
| 19:45.20 | romainguy | we really advice not to handle rotation manually |
| 19:45.34 | zhobbs | really, I was advised that I should when I talked to some googlers |
| 19:45.35 | romainguy | how so? |
| 19:45.42 | romainguy | it depends on your app |
| 19:45.53 | romainguy | for instance it makes sense for Browser to handle it manually |
| 19:46.22 | zhobbs | all my screens are ListViews or WebViews |
| 19:46.36 | romainguy | so what exactly is easier for you to do manually? |
| 19:46.45 | umdk1d3 | hmm so i heard rumors that there is a special cache partition on the device (that i guess the browser is making use of), but im not seeing any implementations of java.net.ResponseCache in the framework :/ wondering if there is some magic way of interfacing with that cache space |
| 19:47.11 | romainguy | umdk1d3: there is a cache partition, but I highly doubt ResponseCache is the way to access it |
| 19:47.15 | zhobbs | when you rotate screen while a thread is running I have to manage the state of that thread much more carefully |
| 19:47.24 | umdk1d3 | continues to grep the docs |
| 19:47.43 | romainguy | umdk1d3: I don't know if the public APIs give access to the cache |
| 19:48.26 | umdk1d3 | there is android.webkit.CacheManager |
| 19:48.30 | zhobbs | and hand my thread off to onRetainNonConfigurationInstance(), and handle it on the other side |
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| 20:01.17 | zhobbs | hmmm.....looks like LocalActivityManager.destroyActivity() doesn't really release any resources... |
| 20:01.27 | zhobbs | that's why I have no memory! |
| 20:03.19 | umdk1d3 | bah ill be writing my own cache i guess :/ because the url can slightly change between sessions, even though its the same image |
| 20:03.36 | umdk1d3 | hmm maybe i can create fake urls and just treat them as generic cache keys |
| 20:03.48 | tomgibara | zhobbs: how do you know this? |
| 20:06.15 | zhobbs | tomgibara: well, I'm calling it to destroy an activity and my memory usage doesn't go down |
| 20:06.41 | zhobbs | (sysinfo tab in ddms) |
| 20:07.44 | tomgibara | zhobbs: What if something else is holding onto a reference to the Activity? |
| 20:08.15 | romainguy | zhobbs: make sure you GC your process, the system process and your process again a couple of times |
| 20:08.33 | romainguy | and like tomgibara says, you might just be holding a reference to the Activity somewhere |
| 20:08.38 | romainguy | it's pretty easy to do through the Context class |
| 20:08.48 | zhobbs | hmm |
| 20:10.57 | zhobbs | romainguy: I should manually invoke gc? |
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| 20:11.30 | romainguy | no |
| 20:11.59 | romainguy | make sure you don't hold onto the references |
| 20:12.06 | ezak | is gone, autoaway/10m (l!on) |
| 20:12.10 | romainguy | I was telling you do force GCs to make sure the memory doesn't go away |
| 20:12.40 | zhobbs | ok |
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| 20:14.32 | zhobbs | yeah, it's not going away....let me try to figure out if I'm keeping a reference somwhere... |
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| 20:24.18 | fearphage | jasta: you there? |
| 20:24.44 | zhobbs | romainguy: when I run destroyActivity() it returns a Window, do I need to do something with this Window to release it's resources? |
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| 20:32.44 | tomgibara | zhobbs: Finding leaks in a big app is tricky, instead could you tackle it in the opposite direction? Produce a simple test app that repeatedly creates and destroys apps and see if that leaks, if it doesn't you know that your leak isn't related to the LocalActivityManager |
| 20:33.55 | zhobbs | tomgibara: yeah, might not be a bad idea |
| 20:34.39 | zhobbs | tomgibara: I've noticed that they don't use LocalActivityManager.destroyActivity() in their TabHost |
| 20:35.17 | zhobbs | and I found another bug already around destroyActivity() ( http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=879 ), so I'm not ruling out the possibility that it's a bug |
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| 20:36.08 | tomgibara | zhobbs: either way a mini test app should provide useful information |
| 20:36.22 | zhobbs | yeah, thanks for the tip...I'll try that out |
| 20:39.59 | Poohba2 | anyone here "actually" played with this thing yet |
| 20:40.47 | Disconnect | Poohba1: all the google guys prolly |
| 20:40.58 | Disconnect | and evidently tmob is doing hands-on training in their stores |
| 20:41.07 | Poohba2 | they are bias |
| 20:41.12 | Poohba2 | i need an unbias opinion |
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| 20:41.31 | zer0her0 | it's horrible |
| 20:41.35 | Poohba2 | lol |
| 20:41.38 | Disconnect | the one i was using sucked |
| 20:41.38 | zer0her0 | :-D |
| 20:41.50 | Poohba2 | ok... ineed an unbias detailed opinion |
| 20:41.52 | zer0her0 | has never touched one |
| 20:41.58 | zer0her0 | haha |
| 20:43.40 | Poohba2 | i'm a windows mobile user and i like my dash although I am sure it could be better. it freezes more than i'd like and it runs out of resources... which is why it freezes a lot |
| 20:43.53 | Poohba2 | not a lot but enough |
| 20:44.33 | Poohba2 | i am just wondering if 2wks will be enough time for me to put it t hrough hell to know if i want to keep it |
| 20:44.35 | Disconnect | so check out engadget's comparisons |
| 20:44.45 | Disconnect | or just get one |
| 20:45.01 | Poohba2 | i do a lot of emails and texting |
| 20:45.42 | Poohba2 | web browsing |
| 20:45.55 | Poohba2 | the thing i do least is talking |
| 20:46.13 | Poohba2 | stereo bluetooth (is this available?) |
| 20:46.33 | zhobbs | tomgibara: my small test makes it seem like it's a bug |
| 20:46.44 | zhobbs | damnit....that sucks |
| 20:47.02 | tomgibara | zhobbs: Given your previous comments, not that surprising I guess |
| 20:47.37 | zhobbs | now I'm screwed..... |
| 20:47.48 | tomgibara | why? |
| 20:48.20 | tomgibara | You rely on this class? |
| 20:48.22 | zhobbs | cause my app relies on that....I have 10 different activities all coming through my activitygroup |
| 20:48.53 | tomgibara | What's the reason for using the activity group? I've not used one directly |
| 20:49.05 | zhobbs | I'm using it for tabs |
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| 20:49.23 | zhobbs | I can have tabs, and animate each screen in and out within my tabs, etc |
| 20:49.40 | tomgibara | Well, maybe you can take heart from the fact that TabHost seems to work okay |
| 20:49.51 | tomgibara | or perhaps that leaks |
| 20:49.55 | zhobbs | it leaks |
| 20:50.20 | tomgibara | ah, then it sounds like a tricky situation |
| 20:50.20 | zhobbs | it doesn't destroy the other activities, it just accepts that memory hit |
| 20:50.29 | zhobbs | (according to jad) |
| 20:51.00 | tomgibara | you did read the SDK licence agreement didn't you ;) |
| 20:51.19 | zhobbs | of course, that's what makes decompiling it so fun! |
| 20:51.26 | tomgibara | :) |
| 20:51.52 | pardom | how do i get the _id of the list view item from onItemClick() |
| 20:52.06 | tomgibara | zhobbs: So when does memory from a TabHost get reclaimed? |
| 20:52.20 | zhobbs | when the TabHost is destroyed I guess |
| 20:53.05 | tomgibara | It's starting to look grubby... |
| 20:53.28 | zhobbs | I'm not using TabHost directly, in my tab system I just have a constant like MAX_RUNNING_TABS and I will keep at most that many tabs alive |
| 20:55.48 | tomgibara | Is there anyway to embed an activity without using this class? |
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| 20:57.53 | zhobbs | tomgibara: not sure, might have to find out :) |
| 21:05.41 | zhobbs | tomgibara: doesn't look like you can...we don't have access to ActivityThread |
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| 21:12.23 | herriojr | how come parceable objects no longer have readFromParcel? |
| 21:12.29 | herriojr | was it a security issue? |
| 21:12.59 | gary| | hi, according to the docs, textview manages the scrollbar on it's own. I tried setting more text then can be fitted in the screen, but the scrollbar doesnt show, any ideas? |
| 21:13.12 | tomgibara | zhobbs: I have no idea if this is possible or even sensible, but could you embed your 'actual' activities into 'wrapper' activities (which are memory light in their own right), put your wrappers into your tabbing widget and hold onto them permanently, then reduce memory usage by destroying the widgets that embed the actual activities |
| 21:13.21 | tomgibara | I hope that makes some sort of sense |
| 21:14.46 | zhobbs | How do I go about embedding/destroying in each wrapper activity? |
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| 21:16.21 | tomgibara | Produce a widget (backed by the evil LocalActivityManager) that just displays the actual activity and then destroy the widget to release the memory. |
| 21:16.52 | tomgibara | I'm assuming that its possible to release the memory when the widget is destroyed otherwise TabHost would be severely impacted |
| 21:20.06 | tomgibara | I totally concede that its an almost wholly nasty idea, but if your app hangs on it, its the only suggestion I have |
| 21:20.24 | zhobbs | tomgibara: submitted an issue, if you want to see the sample project I used http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=927 |
| 21:20.24 | romainguy | that or make sure you do not leak anything |
| 21:21.01 | zhobbs | romainguy: maybe I'm doing something wrong (I hope), a project demonstrating the problem is attached to that issue |
| 21:22.19 | romainguy | well here you go |
| 21:22.24 | romainguy | Window win = getLocalActivityManager().startActivity("T2", i); |
| 21:22.24 | romainguy | mView = win.getDecorView(); |
| 21:22.24 | romainguy | mFrame.addView(mView); |
| 21:22.33 | romainguy | you keep a reference to the activity's decor view |
| 21:22.37 | romainguy | which has a reference to the Context |
| 21:22.41 | romainguy | the Context is the activity itself |
| 21:22.50 | romainguy | since you keep that decor view reference as a field, the GC cannot collect it |
| 21:23.28 | zhobbs | well, mView gets reassigned right, so GC should pick it up? |
| 21:24.41 | romainguy | ok I see |
| 21:24.47 | zhobbs | android is my first java experience....so I haven't really put the time in to study GC, etc |
| 21:26.14 | romainguy | lemme check |
| 21:27.14 | zhobbs | (and if you try to restart tab 2 it doesn't work, bug 879) |
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| 21:28.45 | tomgibara | zhobbs: At least you may have a work around - I had to give up on this (I'm pretty sure it's impossible): http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=926 |
| 21:29.29 | mats-palats | htc diamond anyone? |
| 21:29.31 | zhobbs | yeah, I'd be very happy with a hacky workaround at this point "_ |
| 21:29.33 | zhobbs | :) |
| 21:29.46 | gary| | anyone have any ideas about my problem with textview? |
| 21:30.06 | gary| | it doesnt show the scrollbar when the text is more then what can be displayed in a single screen |
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| 21:30.39 | romainguy | put it in a scrollview |
| 21:31.33 | gary| | according to the doc, a textview takes care of the scrollbar |
| 21:32.18 | romainguy | where does it say that? |
| 21:32.32 | gary| | http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/widget/ScrollView.html |
| 21:32.44 | gary| | 2nd last line before summery |
| 21:33.16 | romainguy | I thought TextView supported scrolling only in EditText |
| 21:33.21 | romainguy | but I might be wrong ^^ |
| 21:33.50 | gary| | the api examples have the layout in scrollview as well, then a textview inside that element of the layout xml file :/ |
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| 21:37.24 | androoid | hey |
| 21:37.56 | androoid | i am having problem using udp connection in java to connect to a python/.NET server |
| 21:38.34 | androoid | has anyone here have experience using UDP ? |
| 21:38.42 | herriojr | could we get views to be serializable? |
| 21:38.50 | romainguy | zhobbs: I can't reproduce your bug |
| 21:39.02 | romainguy | when I force GCs of the processes, the memory is reclaimed |
| 21:39.08 | romainguy | and there's no stray activity or objects left |
| 21:40.32 | zhobbs | romainguy: hmm, interesting |
| 21:40.42 | fadden | androoid: have you done anything with port redirection? |
| 21:40.57 | zhobbs | romainguy: what process did you force GC on? |
| 21:41.02 | romainguy | just your process |
| 21:41.04 | androoid | fadden: no |
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| 21:41.45 | fadden | Are packets getting out and just not coming back? Or not getting out at all? |
| 21:42.35 | androoid | I tried a client/server in Java and android it is working fine |
| 21:42.58 | fadden | e.g.: http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=44 |
| 21:43.02 | androoid | but I need to have the client speak to a python/.NET server this time and it seems to not be able to connect |
| 21:43.21 | tomgibara | zhobbs: I just ran your test case, same thing: the memory was reclaimed promptly |
| 21:43.43 | fadden | "connect" is kind of a stretch with UDP |
| 21:43.51 | androoid | Let me try a lower port, I am currently in 8007 |
| 21:44.20 | androoid | fadden: sorry I do not know the terms, this is my first time attempt with socket programming |
| 21:44.51 | androoid | I know the client is working in Java since I can see the server has received it in the debug console |
| 21:46.30 | zhobbs | tomgibara, romainguy ok...well that's good news, so we forced gc, but that would happen normally whenever needed right? |
| 21:46.58 | romainguy | yes |
| 21:47.03 | romainguy | but there was no need to GC there |
| 21:48.34 | tomgibara | As I read the situation, the simple test app I suggested has demonstrated that there is no memory leak in destroyActivity(). Thus the most likely cause is now a memory leak inside your application. |
| 21:49.01 | romainguy | that's right |
| 21:49.16 | romainguy | I also checked the heap and there was no reference to Tab2 left |
| 21:49.23 | zhobbs | yeah, sorry for wasting your guys' time...gotta figure out what the problem is... |
| 21:49.51 | androoid | fadden: that bug wouldn't pertain to my problem because I am not even using android right now, I am just testing it with Java |
| 21:49.57 | tomgibara | zhobbs: Fine, I'm chugging through javadoc'ing, I'm glad for the occasional distraction! |
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| 21:50.38 | fadden | androoid: desktop only, emulator not involved? |
| 21:50.43 | androoid | fadden: yeah |
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| 21:51.01 | androoid | I am just using the java datagram class |
| 21:51.10 | romainguy | zhobbs: no problem |
| 21:51.14 | fadden | Alrighty then. |
| 21:51.30 | fadden | What sort of server are you talking to? |
| 21:51.40 | androoid | a Python/C# server |
| 21:51.46 | romainguy | zhobbs: lemme check something that might help you |
| 21:51.56 | *** join/#android Dipen (n=LENOVO@host-208-68-238-59.biznesshosting.net) |
| 21:52.01 | androoid | the Python client talks to the C#/Python server fine |
| 21:52.25 | fadden | Python code is bouncing UDP packets off of it? |
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| 21:52.41 | androoid | I don't know what bouncing off means |
| 21:52.53 | androoid | It seems like it is not connecting at all |
| 21:52.58 | Dipen | T-Mobile is not accepting any preorder for G1........ |
| 21:53.15 | umdk1d3 | remember that udp doesnt work in the emulator, at least incoming iirc |
| 21:53.34 | fadden | androoid: TCP and UDP have a common parent (IP) but are independent. TCP is connection-oriented, UDP is packet-oriented. |
| 21:53.39 | gary| | umdk1d3, the same on from Adullam? |
| 21:53.44 | gary| | s/no/one |
| 21:53.48 | androoid | umdk1d3: the UDP works if it's Java client/server |
| 21:53.49 | gary| | bleh, fail |
| 21:53.51 | fadden | You don't "connect" to a server with UDP; you throw packets at it and it throws some back. |
| 21:54.01 | umdk1d3 | qemu acts as a nat, and you could use adb to create port forwarding for TCP |
| 21:54.17 | fadden | umdk1d3: at this point he's totally on desktop Java |
| 21:54.19 | androoid | fadden: Yes, I guess the Python/C# server is not getting the packets the Java client is sending |
| 21:54.22 | umdk1d3 | gary|: lol why? |
| 21:54.33 | gary| | cos im there also |
| 21:54.36 | gary| | just wandering |
| 21:54.47 | umdk1d3 | pres been dead for awhile :P |
| 21:54.53 | gary| | under a diff nick ;) |
| 21:55.00 | gary| | i dont go there for that |
| 21:55.16 | gary| | i used to, but i just idle since it seems like an ok place |
| 21:55.27 | umdk1d3 | ah cool |
| 21:55.38 | umdk1d3 | yea im an ircop there |
| 21:56.14 | fadden | androoid: make sure you're sending them to the same interface that the server is listening on if the server isn't bound to INADDR_ANY |
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| 21:57.32 | androoid | what does the same interface mean? |
| 21:58.25 | *** part/#android Dipen (n=LENOVO@host-208-68-238-59.biznesshosting.net) |
| 21:59.01 | androoid | I'm just following the http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/networking/datagrams/clientServer.html code |
| 21:59.50 | androoid | and http://www.anddev.org/udp-networking_-_within_the_emulator-t280.html seems to be exactly the same |
| 22:01.16 | kingkung | hello |
| 22:01.46 | kingkung | does anybody know how to make a View object serializable and/or parcelable? |
| 22:01.58 | fadden | androoid: try it with both sides in Java. If that works, switch over to your Python/C# server. |
| 22:02.05 | ttuttle | hey |
| 22:02.10 | androoid | fadden: i have, and it works |
| 22:02.35 | fadden | So your Java bits can talk to Java bits, and Python/C# bits can talk to Python/C# bits, but neither can talk to the other? |
| 22:02.35 | romainguy | kingkung: you can't really |
| 22:02.49 | androoid | fadden: yes |
| 22:03.25 | fadden | If you try to run both servers at the same time, does one fail? |
| 22:03.30 | androoid | yes |
| 22:04.03 | fadden | Beats me. |
| 22:04.13 | androoid | in python, it gives me raise CannotListenError, (self.interface, self.port, le) |
| 22:04.13 | androoid | twisted.internet.error.CannotListenError: Couldn't listen on any:8007: (10048, ' |
| 22:04.13 | androoid | Address already in use'). |
| 22:04.19 | kingkung | romainguy: you can't break down the components of a view into smaller structures? |
| 22:04.41 | fadden | androoid: that's a good sign -- means both servers are listening to the same thing. |
| 22:04.51 | romainguy | kingkung: a View always needs a Context and the Context is your Activity |
| 22:04.54 | androoid | yeah I don't know if this is a Java issue or what |
| 22:05.04 | tomgibara | romainguy: On the subject of Parcels what does the mysterious enforceInterface() method do? I'm interested. |
| 22:05.10 | androoid | I tried to google and I have no luck with anyone else running into the same problem |
| 22:05.22 | romainguy | zhobbs: I have a solution for you |
| 22:05.36 | androoid | and it would be hard for me to mess up the code since it is pretty much like 2 lines of code |
| 22:06.01 | romainguy | tomgibara: where is that method? |
| 22:06.11 | zhobbs | romainguy: that'd be great! |
| 22:06.12 | romainguy | ah found it |
| 22:06.13 | tomgibara | On Parcel, it's the only undocumented method on that class. |
| 22:06.21 | kingkung | romainguy: would it be possible to extract the components from a view and re-create it using another context? |
| 22:06.28 | romainguy | tomgibara: no idea, ask Dianne :) |
| 22:06.38 | romainguy | kingkung: you could yes |
| 22:07.01 | romainguy | zhobbs: do you have JDK 1.6? |
| 22:07.04 | tomgibara | romainguy: If I ever get the chance :) |
| 22:07.07 | zhobbs | romainguy: yes |
| 22:07.12 | romainguy | tomgibara: on the groups |
| 22:07.14 | romainguy | zhobbs: excellent |
| 22:07.15 | kingkung | romainguy: i guess that's what i'm asking... is there a good/documented way to break down the components/children of a view and communicate it to another activity |
| 22:07.39 | kingkung | romainguy: to be recreated |
| 22:07.54 | romainguy | kingkung: no, there is not, but what exactly are you trying to do? |
| 22:08.18 | tomgibara | romainguy: I think on the groups, she has more important posts to answer - not my simple curiosities :) |
| 22:08.32 | romainguy | zhobbs: start with a adb shell kill -10 PID |
| 22:08.40 | romainguy | where PID is the process id of your app |
| 22:08.52 | androoid | fadden: do you know is there any way I can trace the actual packet somehow? |
| 22:08.54 | romainguy | then look at the output of adb lolcat |
| 22:09.00 | romainguy | you will see two file paths |
| 22:09.06 | kingkung | romainguy: i would like to define a view in a separate process and be able to communicate it through a service to my main process to display |
| 22:09.18 | romainguy | something like /data/misc/heap-dump-1234.hprof |
| 22:09.42 | tomgibara | kingkung: you are best off transmitting the data backing your views, not the views themselves |
| 22:09.43 | romainguy | one has a the "head" suffix |
| 22:09.53 | romainguy | you need to concat them by putting the head file first |
| 22:10.02 | romainguy | something like cat head rest > result.hprof |
| 22:10.16 | romainguy | then from your JDK you can run "hat result.hprof" |
| 22:10.21 | kingkung | tomgibara: what do you mean the data backing my views? i assume you mean something other than the data within the views |
| 22:10.31 | romainguy | that will open a webserver at http://localhost:7000 which will show you the content of the VM heap |
| 22:10.38 | romainguy | there you can track down leaks |
| 22:11.05 | fadden | androoid: you can try to use a packet sniffer (wikipedia has some links). |
| 22:12.17 | tomgibara | kingkung: I mean that it isn't practical to 'move' views to/from services. You need to transmit the 'logical' data that the views are displaying |
| 22:12.21 | zhobbs | romainguy: on logcat I got: hprof: can't open /data/misc/heap-dump-tm1222899020-pid20453.hprof: Permission denied. |
| 22:12.35 | zhobbs | romainguy: but I don't see that file in /data/misc |
| 22:12.46 | fadden | chmod 777 /data/misc ? |
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| 22:13.38 | romainguy | ooh |
| 22:13.41 | romainguy | let me try with the SDK |
| 22:13.48 | smacky_wolf | Hey all! |
| 22:13.50 | zhobbs | romainguy: ok, chmod got me the file |
| 22:13.54 | romainguy | cool |
| 22:15.07 | smacky_wolf | Here's a question: is there any reason that android would not be able to support extra bluetooth profiles (specifically A2DP or stereo audio) or is it just a hardware based limitation? |
| 22:16.03 | unix_infidel | no a2dp. |
| 22:16.25 | smacky_wolf | ...not quite the question |
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| 22:17.37 | zhobbs | romainguy: can't find hat |
| 22:17.46 | romainguy | it's in the JDK 6 |
| 22:18.15 | romainguy | you can also download it here: https://hat.dev.java.net/ |
| 22:18.35 | romainguy | it's probably called jhat |
| 22:18.49 | zhobbs | ahh, there it is |
| 22:19.17 | zhobbs | cat heap-dump-tm1222899289-pid20096.hprof-head heap-dump-tm1222899289-pid20096.hprof > result.hprof |
| 22:19.27 | zhobbs | jhat result.hprof |
| 22:19.36 | zhobbs | Reading from result.hprof... |
| 22:19.36 | zhobbs | java.io.IOException: Version string not recognized at byte 17 |
| 22:19.40 | romainguy | doh! |
| 22:25.51 | herriojr | tomgibara: if you write a wrapper around the view to make it parcelable, wouldn't you have to break it down into components to send it anyway? |
| 22:26.06 | herriojr | meaning break it into atomic components |
| 22:26.13 | herriojr | int, byte, etc. |
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| 22:26.34 | rayado | parcelable is pass-by-value, so it would become a different View each time it crosses a process boundary |
| 22:26.39 | zhobbs | herriojr: not really, if it's a text view just send the text and recreate the textview on the other side |
| 22:26.56 | herriojr | but what if you don't know that it is a text view that is going to be displayed |
| 22:27.03 | tomgibara | herriojr: I'm saying that you don't want to send the view |
| 22:27.06 | rayado | and anyway, there are way too many calls between views to just remote them all |
| 22:27.07 | herriojr | ok |
| 22:28.20 | zhobbs | romainguy: would an animation listener on a View keep that activity alive? |
| 22:28.42 | zhobbs | actually, the listener is on the animation not the view |
| 22:28.47 | romainguy | depends on how the animation listener is defined |
| 22:29.56 | zhobbs | romainguy: any ideas on the heap dump? |
| 22:30.08 | romainguy | zhobbs: looking :) |
| 22:30.12 | romainguy | but nothing so far |
| 22:30.42 | zhobbs | have you done that before with dalvik? |
| 22:30.53 | romainguy | many many many many times |
| 22:31.15 | romainguy | but we use an internal tool to analyze the heap dump |
| 22:31.22 | zhobbs | ahh |
| 22:31.32 | zhobbs | want an apk? :) |
| 22:31.32 | romainguy | JProfiler definitely used to work but I guess we changed the format since then |
| 22:33.01 | tomgibara | zhobbs: I was really surprised when I found out that a trivial app uses 2M of dirty private memory. I assumed i had a memory leak in an app until I found that out. Is it possible that your app is simply using a lot of memory? |
| 22:34.26 | zhobbs | tomgibara: sure, but the problem is the amount of memory I'm using never goes down |
| 22:34.57 | zhobbs | I open a webview activity, 8 MB more memory....I leave it, I see in the log it's destroyed, but I'm never getting that 8 meg back |
| 22:34.58 | romainguy | zhobbs: are you looking at the heap size or the actual usage of the heap? |
| 22:35.13 | romainguy | the heap will not shrink down |
| 22:35.23 | zhobbs | ddms, sysinfo, memory usage |
| 22:35.44 | fadden | I saw a nifty demo of Azul's stuff once. They embedded a web server in the VM. All sorts of fancy stuff visible by connecting a web browser into it. |
| 22:35.48 | zhobbs | that example app did go down on there after I forced GC on that process a few times |
| 22:36.13 | romainguy | ah |
| 22:36.15 | romainguy | don't look at this |
| 22:36.37 | romainguy | it's more interesting (in this case) to look at the VM heap |
| 22:36.44 | romainguy | just enable the heap updates for your process |
| 22:36.50 | romainguy | and then look in the VM Heap tab |
| 22:37.01 | romainguy | you'll see the heap size vs allocated |
| 22:37.19 | tomgibara | romainguy: That's interesting, the Dalvik heap doesn't shrink under any circumstance? |
| 22:37.40 | romainguy | I don't know of any VM that shrinks the heap actually |
| 22:37.48 | romainguy | fadden could prove me wrong if I'm saying something dumb |
| 22:37.52 | herriojr | tomgibara: ok, then instead of sending the view, send a xml representation |
| 22:37.58 | romainguy | but Java VMs for instance don't shrink the heap |
| 22:38.12 | fadden | Dalvik does -- pages are returned to the system when possible. |
| 22:38.26 | romainguy | fadden: the heap size can shrink? |
| 22:38.32 | tomgibara | romainguy: Yes, I know, I always assumed they relied on the OS to reclaim the unused heap though |
| 22:38.39 | fadden | Not sure that the bounds actually change, but "showmap" will show fewer pages in use. |
| 22:38.54 | romainguy | fadden: doesn't that imply that the GC must compact the heap first? |
| 22:39.10 | fadden | No, just that you have 4096 contiguous bytes of unused space. |
| 22:39.20 | romainguy | ah I was talking about the bounds |
| 22:39.27 | romainguy | not the actual memory used in the system |
| 22:39.54 | tomgibara | fadden: what sort of GC algorithm is it? |
| 22:40.07 | zhobbs | romainguy: hmm, setup updates on my process, can see GC in logcat, but nothing in that heap tab |
| 22:40.31 | fadden | Stone dumb stop-the-world, conservative mark/sweep. |
| 22:40.37 | *** join/#android zhobbs (n=zach@132.245.8.67.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 22:40.42 | tomgibara | zhobbs: Hit the GC button |
| 22:40.48 | fadden | Non-compacting too. |
| 22:40.55 | fadden | Needs to be replaced. |
| 22:41.01 | romainguy | wants a generational GC :p |
| 22:41.08 | tomgibara | fadden: So that's due to time constraints then |
| 22:42.01 | fadden | New & improved version will appear in some unspecified future release. |
| 22:42.02 | romainguy | tomgibara: see it that way, Android runs fast with a very basic GC, an interpreted VM and non-hw accelerated 2D API :) |
| 22:42.12 | romainguy | now think about what will happen in the next releases :p |
| 22:42.16 | tomgibara | Yes, I remember being impressed by the performance increase Hotspot demonstrated when the introduced a generational GC |
| 22:42.35 | romainguy | well in the case of Android a generational GC might really help applications |
| 22:42.46 | fadden | We mostly get away with the simple GC because we have one app per process, so we don't get conflicting allocation strategies fragmenting things badly. |
| 22:42.48 | romainguy | for instance scroll animations when adapters generates tons of small objects |
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| 22:43.00 | romainguy | you often get a stutter due to a 200/300ms GC pause in the middle of a scroll |
| 22:44.11 | herriojr | is the eclipse plugin supposed to auto-generate an interface from my .aidl file? If so, it doesn't seem to be working and it says that my .java file is in the way of my .aidl file and I must remove one |
| 22:44.27 | tomgibara | I'm looking forward to when someone starts using escape analysis to identify objects that can avoid the heap - I'm not sure what benefit will be gained, but I'm interested to find out |
| 22:45.17 | romainguy | tomgibara: with HotSpot's GC it would probably not matter much |
| 22:45.31 | wastrel | what's gc |
| 22:45.44 | romainguy | allocations are very fast and their use of the eden spaces help a lot with short-lived objects that would be found by local escape analysis |
| 22:45.49 | romainguy | but that'd be interesting to see :)) |
| 22:46.16 | gdsx | wastrel: "garbage collector" |
| 22:46.32 | tomgibara | yes, it's precisely because it's not an obvious win that I'm interested |
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| 22:46.43 | fadden | Some of the GCs do lots of copying, which is great on desktop systems with fat L2 caches; not so great with the device memory bandwidth. |
| 22:47.26 | fadden | But this sort of stuff is why the longer-lived VMs ship with 57 different user-selectable GCs. |
| 22:47.42 | zhobbs | hmmm, guess I gotta read up on what this all means...not sure what a heap is |
| 22:48.05 | fadden | zhobbs: heap == big pile of memory where objects live |
| 22:48.15 | tomgibara | fadden: I found I could eat away unlimited amounts of time just with the variants that Hotspot exhibited |
| 22:48.17 | gdsx | zhobbs: so, imagine you go to buy some dirt... |
| 22:48.42 | fadden | http://blogs.sun.com/watt/resource/jvm-options-list.html |
| 22:48.52 | romainguy | fadden: I once worked as a contractor on tuning the GC for the servers of a company |
| 22:48.55 | romainguy | that was painful ^^ |
| 22:49.00 | umdk1d3 | o.o 10-01 15:44:06.406: ERROR/OSNetworkSystem(5185): unclassified errno 99 (Cannot assign requested address) |
| 22:49.48 | tomgibara | GC tuning is so incredibly hard for complex apps (with concurrent and differing allocation profiles) that I learned it's best to produce smaller specialized apps that run in separate processes |
| 22:50.05 | jasta | umdk1d3: well, don't rquest an address that doesn't match any of your interfaces :) |
| 22:50.06 | umdk1d3 | which is super odd, because i get that error when im trying to use a legit ip thats on the device--it doesnt return that error when i try a random ip |
| 22:50.07 | tomgibara | Android gets things right in so many ways :) |
| 22:50.14 | umdk1d3 | jasta: its behaving opposite |
| 22:51.08 | romainguy | tomgibara: I totally agree with your assessment on GC tuning :) |
| 22:51.13 | jasta | how do you know that the ip corresponds to a local interface? |
| 22:51.37 | zhobbs | so, my heap size is 5.3 MB, 50% used....and according to the sysinfo tab I'm using 16.5 MB memory, what is the extra 10 MB? |
| 22:51.37 | umdk1d3 | jasta: im using a WifiInfo and decoding the int it returns into a byte aray, then InetAddress'ing it |
| 22:51.38 | romainguy | tomgibara: that reminds of when I used Xerces on another job and it was causing the VM to run out of perm space |
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| 22:52.04 | tomgibara | romainguy: Yes! I've hit that |
| 22:52.12 | jasta | umdk1d3: so you're trying to bind() on the wi-fi interface? |
| 22:52.20 | fadden | zhobbs: "adb shell procrank" and look at PSS; or "adb shell showmap <pid>" and admire the output |
| 22:52.21 | umdk1d3 | jasta: i think so lol |
| 22:52.28 | jasta | umdk1d3: what do you mean you think so? |
| 22:52.29 | tomgibara | It does a whole lot of interning (or something, I don't recall) |
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| 22:52.35 | wastrel | i'm learning java |
| 22:52.57 | romainguy | tomgibara: actually Xerces compiles XSLT into bytecode in memory and if you load tons of XSLT, you run out of perm space |
| 22:53.05 | umdk1d3 | jasta: im decoding the wifi address correctly, and i think that error is happening when something is trying to bind to that ip--im using another lib so im not sure /where/ the error is happening |
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| 22:53.26 | tomgibara | romainguy: Yes I was about to say that it was Xalan that tracked it down to |
| 22:53.33 | romainguy | ah yes, Xalan |
| 22:53.37 | romainguy | always get these two mixed up |
| 22:54.00 | jasta | umdk1d3: well, my advice is to side-step the lib and try a simpler test of just binding to the interface yourself |
| 22:54.12 | jasta | just to make sure your assumptions are correct :) |
| 22:54.25 | jasta | by the way, what are you doing? :P i'm curious about all this trickery |
| 22:54.43 | jasta | sounds to me like maybe VoIP? :) |
| 22:55.00 | umdk1d3 | lol |
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| 22:56.22 | tomgibara | zhobbs: It could be native objects like bitmaps |
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| 23:02.41 | jasta | umdk1d3: .....? :) |
| 23:06.08 | umdk1d3 | no im not doing voip :P |
| 23:07.13 | herriojr | through eclipse, how am I supposed to make my .aidl file so that it actually works? |
| 23:07.26 | herriojr | I just create a file and name it myinterface.aidl and that doesn't seem to work |
| 23:07.32 | herriojr | and I have the current eclipse plugin |
| 23:07.55 | herriojr | *android plguin |
| 23:07.58 | herriojr | *plugin |
| 23:08.02 | *** join/#android guerby (n=guerby@195.174.71-86.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 23:09.32 | herriojr | I just keep getting an error on the first line of "bad type" |
| 23:10.31 | herriojr | but if I run aidl.exe manually, it creates the interface |
| 23:15.38 | herriojr | nevermind, I got it to work, it seems to be really sketchy though |
| 23:15.53 | herriojr | I had to move the aidl out into another folder and package and then move it back in |
| 23:26.13 | *** join/#android cbeust (n=cbeust@67.218.107.29) |
| 23:28.47 | poetic_folly|G5 | down with rapidshare |
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| 23:38.21 | illuminum | where is the source for the api demos? |
| 23:38.35 | illuminum | e.g. where do i find example code for a table layout? |
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| 23:39.32 | zhobbs | illuminum: $SDK_FOLDER/Samples |
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| 23:41.31 | illuminum | thanks |
| 23:44.34 | zhobbs | romainguy: how do I get the animation cache for a View? |
| 23:45.40 | romainguy | getDrawingCache |
| 23:45.50 | romainguy | or use HierarchyViewer and double-click the view |
| 23:46.05 | zhobbs | and is setAnimationCacheEnabled() only relevant for Layout Animations? Cause I'm just doing View.startAnimation() |
| 23:46.27 | romainguy | setAnimationCacheEnabled is relevant to all animations |
| 23:46.29 | romainguy | it's on by default |
| 23:46.34 | romainguy | and you really should keep it on by default |
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