IRC log for #android on 20081014

00:00.23*** join/#android angryamoeba (n=danski@93-97-160-230.zone5.bethere.co.uk)
00:09.52*** join/#android unix_infidel (n=blue@unaffiliated/unixinfidel/x-8383745)
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00:38.12*** join/#android zer0her0_ (n=Z@cpe-72-231-147-72.nycap.res.rr.com)
00:50.57Disconnectok i'm feeling dumb. following the docs online, I can't manage to get the object out of the xml layout. (eg "TextView .. id="@+id/tv1" .. how do i get that programatically to - eg - change the text..?) trying to follow http://code.google.com/android/reference/available-resources.html#layoutresources
00:51.15jastauhh
00:51.27jastacan you rephrase?  i can't parse that :)
00:51.56Disconnectsorry :/ really tired. basically i'm creating a layout in xml, with (among other things) a textview and an edittext.
00:52.11Disconnecthow do i get a hold of those programatically in order to manipulate them?
00:52.55Disconnector should i just ignore the xml layout and do it all programatically from the start?
00:52.55jastafindViewById()?
00:53.08jastano, definitely don't do it all on your own.  it's always a good idea to use XML layouts
00:53.18jastado you mean how to inflate an XML layout and attach it?
00:53.51DisconnectI've got it displaying, I think its findViewById I was missing. gotta figure out what the int is that it wants tho.
00:54.29jastait wants R.id.foo
00:54.32jastafrom your package
00:54.35Disconnectcool :) R.id.tvfield
00:54.46Disconnectyah thats what i was missing i think. thanks :)
01:05.03*** join/#android plusminus_ (i=4421a620@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-55488361253bdfa6)
01:09.33Disconnectso on the actual device, will the clocks give the same time? :)
01:09.55romainguythey do
01:14.30Disconnectjust wondering :)
01:17.32*** join/#android Dralspire (n=dralspir@81-196.126-70.tampabay.res.rr.com)
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01:29.50*** part/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@68.35.245.156)
01:30.46*** join/#android eton (n=eton@ppp-58-8-3-254.revip2.asianet.co.th)
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01:49.09Disconnectrandom side note, the code on http://code.google.com/android/kb/commontasks.html#addmenuitems is outdated
01:49.16Disconnectnot that hard to figure out but..
01:52.43jastayou should report this type of stuff to the issue list
01:52.48jastathat way someone will actually fix it :P
01:53.07*** join/#android dan_winckler (n=dan@sdsl-104-051.dsl.bway.net)
01:59.56Disconnecti should, true.
02:00.16Disconnectwill, but not tonight. tongiht its bedtime, too tired to see straight anymore (it was a busy/long weekend)
02:00.47wastreli am at home
02:21.41umdk1d3gosh darnit i just had a nightmare about being in new york city, and everyone had "not here" signs in their windows, because everyone was trying to get theri paws on phones
02:22.16wastreli live in nyc
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02:24.36*** join/#android winfield (n=winfield@124.90.197.121)
02:29.06umdk1d3lol @ http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg282/rizzy811/iphonevsstone.jpg
02:29.59summatusmentisumdk1d3: d'you have an iPod Touch?
02:30.19umdk1d3kinda, not with me atm
02:30.59wastrelmy friend has one
02:31.01wastrelit is very thin
02:31.24summatusmentisI want one
02:33.43umdk1d3it became very apparent over time how "walled garden" it was
02:33.55umdk1d3it *is* sexy, including the UIs
02:35.16summatusmentisyeah, the "walled garden" thing bugs me, but I need a new iPod, and my 810 isn't used enough to justify it
02:37.15umdk1d3i cant stand going back to my n810 now  :/
02:38.16summatusmentisreally? after using which? Touch? or Android?
02:38.50umdk1d3both  :(  the 810s one redeeming feature is native bash+ssh though  ^.^
02:39.04umdk1d3but its firefox is horridly slow
02:39.44summatusmentisit really really is
02:39.52summatusmentisI want bluetooth
02:45.50SanMehatyo
02:46.22*** part/#android mqt (i=tran@monaco.nirv.net)
02:46.53*** join/#android Razec (n=razec@189.56.183.198)
02:47.39summatusmentishi SanMehat :)
02:48.26SanMehathahaha
02:48.29SanMehathey
02:49.58summatusmentis>_> not trying to be creepy
02:51.39wastrelcreepy what now?
02:53.08summatusmentiswastrel: I run into the same people over and over again in multiple channels
02:53.31wastrelweird
02:53.39wastrelnever happens to me
02:53.59summatusmentishaha
02:55.11summatusmentisno, SanMehat just said hi in #gsoc and here
02:55.44summatusmentisand I creepily responded to both
02:55.45umdk1d3shouldnt it be #gfoc or gwoc now?  :P
02:58.59summatusmentisif only
02:59.08summatusmentisthen I wouldn't need to work stupid help desk jobs
03:04.34*** join/#android vbabiy (n=vbabiy@pool-71-244-116-32.albyny.fios.verizon.net)
03:10.51dmoffettHas anyone had luck calling the Google Map app from their program?
03:11.51*** join/#android matt_c (n=mcroydon@137.147.45.66.cm.sunflower.com)
03:12.20plusminus_did not yet try, but there is a couple of things it should react on :/
03:12.41plusminus_is there a specific youtube intent or how to show a youtube-video ?
03:12.54plusminus_or just ACTION_VIEW and a youtube url ?
03:13.37*** join/#android winfield (n=winfield@124.90.197.121)
03:14.04dmoffettI am trying to use this Intent.
03:14.05dmoffettIntent intent = new Intent(android.intent.action.VIEW, uri);
03:14.28dmoffettandroid.intent.action.VIEW is not valid apparently.
03:14.47dmoffettmy uri is geo:alat,along
03:15.36dmoffetttried android.content.Intent.ACTION_VIEW
03:15.45dmoffettbut that fails with Activity not found.
03:17.01plusminus_maybe that one: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=New+York
03:17.08plusminus_as uri
03:17.30jastauhm, no.
03:17.55jastahttp://code.google.com/android/reference/available-intents.html
03:18.07jastayou use geo
03:18.24dmoffettYes that is what I trying to use.
03:18.33dmoffettgeo:lat,long
03:18.51*** join/#android living_sword (n=chatzill@203.115.94.245)
03:18.58dmoffettI suspect that I need some kind of permission.
03:19.07jastayes, check the list of permissions
03:21.17*** join/#android michaelnovakj1 (n=mnovak@pool-96-224-178-38.nycmny.east.verizon.net)
03:23.47jastaromainguy: is it redundant to call requestLayout and invalidate()?  will requestLayout take care of both?
03:27.44plusminus_*AndNav status update* Google-Routing now works on OSM-Maptiles (looks funny, when you are told to use streets that do not yet exist in the osm tiledata ^^)
03:28.33dmoffettNo permission needed.
03:28.35dmoffettIntent intent = new Intent(android.content.Intent.ACTION_VIEW, uri);
03:28.35dmoffettownerActivity.startActivity(intent);
03:28.52dmoffettthat does it with a uri geo:lat,long
03:29.00dmoffettnot sure why it did not work before.
03:31.15umdk1d3mmm <3 bash scripting
03:31.32summatusmentisI've never done any bash scriptiong
03:31.39summatusmentisscripting*
03:31.55umdk1d3plusminus_: google routing?  doesnt that reintroduce the licensing issues?
03:32.22plusminus_just for testing the correctnes of my projection
03:32.36umdk1d3ahic
03:32.54umdk1d3yea ive noticed that projects like mapnik have adopted google maps projection system alot
03:33.01umdk1d3which makes things alot easier
03:33.22plusminus_yes, its maybe a 1-2 px error I'd say on what I see here
03:33.56*** join/#android muthu (n=saraneya@218.248.24.81)
03:34.31plusminus_but that maybe comes from colelcting the data slightly different
03:34.32umdk1d3thats not bad at all  ;)
03:34.56wastrelsomething about bash
03:35.50dmoffettDepends on how far you are zoomed in.  :-)
03:36.02muthuahoy
03:36.46muthuanyone tried a gallery inside a list?
03:37.00muthuso you can get horizontal pick
03:37.58muthulol.. dogbert ceo
03:45.57*** join/#android ttuttle (n=tom@pdpc/supporter/student/gentoo.contributor.ttuttle)
03:47.40muthuhttp://techblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2008/10/google-chrome-browser-losing-m.html
03:47.52ttuttleAnyone used Video Player?
03:48.01ttuttleI've put a .mp4 file on my microSD card, but it won't show up.
03:48.22umdk1d3its removed from the usb host
03:48.23umdk1d3?
03:48.25jastawe don't get the video player
03:48.31jastado we?
03:48.40ttuttleIt's in the public Market right now.
03:48.47jastathere's a public market?
03:48.55muthupublic market?
03:49.04muthuthere's no public market yet
03:49.05gdsxjasta: for devices
03:49.15ttuttlehas a G1 and begs to differ.
03:49.22jastadoes ttuttle think he's in a google only channel?
03:49.22gdsxjasta: so, for instance, the press folks who have devices can install stuff from Market
03:49.26muthuyeah, but its not *public*
03:49.35jastayeah what defines that as public? :)
03:49.38ttuttleWell, not *public*, but it's the one that's going to *be* public.
03:49.38gdsxmuthu: it is public.  It's not on the emulator
03:49.41jastaif youre exclusive enough to have a device, it's public? :)
03:49.42ttuttleIt's not the Google market.
03:49.55ttuttleThere's an internal one for testing.  This is the real one.
03:50.08muthuttuttle: link?
03:50.17umdk1d3ttuttle: do other apps like pictures appear to read from the card?
03:50.17ttuttlemuthu: I don't have one.  You need a device, I think.
03:50.21gdsxmuthu: it's only available from actual devices
03:50.22umdk1d3muthu: EPIC   =D  rofl
03:50.25ttuttleumdk1d3: Music works.
03:50.34muthugdsx: oh, so the link is not public
03:50.38jastahehe
03:50.44gdsxmuthu: there is no link; it's not HTTP
03:50.46jastathese guys can't work out the definition of public :)
03:50.51muthuhaha
03:50.54umdk1d3hmm its found mp4 and 3gp fine in the past
03:50.59muthupublicly available for devices
03:51.00ttuttleumdk1d3: Hrm.
03:51.06jastamuthu: ...which are not :)
03:51.08gdsxumdk1d3: can you play it with mplayer?
03:51.11ttuttlemuthu: The market is publicly available.  The devices to access it are not yet.
03:51.14ttuttlemuthu: ;-)
03:51.24jastattuttle: so what's the host then?
03:51.27ttuttleumdk1d3: What found it?
03:51.29ttuttlejasta: I don't know.
03:51.34ttuttlejasta: I tap "Market" and some apps show up.  That's it.
03:51.42umdk1d3that video player app
03:51.48jastasure would love to have that address and do some nmapping ;)
03:51.50ttuttleumdk1d3: What were you running it on?
03:52.04ttuttlejasta: So, it's likely a Google server.
03:52.07ahaberlachonmapping?
03:52.09ttuttlejasta: They're generally secure, AFAIK.
03:52.10gdsxumdk1d3: err... wrong person :o)
03:52.14ahaberlachoYeah, it's standard Google infrastructure.
03:52.23ahaberlachoJust nmap google.com and you'll get the same thing.
03:52.23muthuhow many apps in market now?
03:52.39ttuttlemuthu: /me probably shouldn't say yet.
03:52.44muthuhehe
03:52.48ttuttlemuthu: But there are some of the ADC winners, and some other stuff.
03:52.57muthucool
03:53.02jastaahaberlacho: so how does it communicate?  do you know?
03:53.05muthuopen up the market, i'll put mobeegal in
03:53.21gdsxjasta: TCP :o)
03:53.28jastagdsx: http?
03:53.37gdsxI said above that it's not http
03:53.39jastait must be http.  it's google, they don't know any other protocol :)
03:53.54muthuits https ;)
03:53.59jastalol, oh ;)
03:54.03gdsxanyway, stuff to do
03:55.06ahaberlachoYeah, RPCs over HTTP/S
03:55.17jastanot http, eh? :)
03:55.22ahaberlachoNo surprises.  It's a protocol we're pretty good at by now.  :)
03:55.35ahaberlachoI'm not sure if it is all HTTP or all HTTPS.  There's probably some of each.
03:56.02muthuits google protocol buffer
03:56.21jastai wonder how google's internal cloud looks
03:56.26jastathat would be a really interesting thing to study
03:57.20ahaberlachoYes.  Yes it would.  :)
03:57.27ahaberlachoLots of moving parts.
03:57.41jastaeh?  it breaks often? :)
03:57.42ahaberlachogoes to do some "real work" that he didn't get done earlier today.
03:57.53ttuttlejasta: Computers, as a general rule, break often.
03:57.58ahaberlachoParts of it break all the time.
03:58.12romainguygiven the size of it that's kinda expected :))
03:58.44muthuto think of backup, recovery etc., mind boggling
03:58.49jastai really have to say i'm tickled by how defensive you all get about Google :)
03:59.13ahaberlachoSo, my record computer uptime is just shy of two years.  So if you were to take 700 computers, chances are that two of them would be down per day.
03:59.30ahaberlachoI'll let you scale however you want, but trust me: there's a lot of broken stuff at any given time.  :)
04:01.45muthuhey android question
04:01.54muthuneed a horizontal scroll in a list item
04:02.10muthuwhat's the best widget to use as a  list row?
04:02.21romainguydepends on the data you want to display...
04:02.26muthubuttons
04:02.37romainguytry a gallery
04:02.43muthuoomph
04:02.50muthuyeah, but the focus issues is getting me
04:02.57muthugallery seems to be the best fit
04:03.01romainguythen create your own widget
04:03.13muthui'm going to use a linear layout
04:03.20muthuand just add buttons with a scroll
04:03.33romainguythen why do you ask? :))
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04:03.49romainguywe had the exact same discussion not long ago :p
04:03.53muthubecause supposedly you are the android gods ;)
04:03.59muthuhehe
04:04.21muthusince i ventured into this custom component thing
04:04.24ahaberlachoromainguy is the ListView god.  :)
04:04.36muthumy productivity has crashed like wall st
04:04.58muthunow there's a lot of toxic widgets that needs to be rescued
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04:05.12muthuListView needs some work
04:05.21muthuits kinda dumb when you put custom components
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04:05.34muthustealing focus et al
04:06.07muthuis it selected and focused?
04:06.14muthuor focused and selected?
04:07.26muthuhave discovered that by butchering the widgets by mashing them together you get some cool weird widgets
04:08.28romainguymuthu: its kinda dumb when you put custom components < or you don't understand it
04:08.53muthuromainguy: agree, my understanding is limited
04:08.59muthuthe docs are not very clear
04:09.03romainguyit's pretty simple really
04:09.08romainguya list item can have focus
04:09.11romainguyor can be selectable
04:09.14romainguybut not both
04:09.36muthuoh ok
04:09.37ttuttleromainguy: Greetings.
04:10.05muthuhave a gallery as a list item
04:10.24muthuthen why the gallery items are not selected?
04:10.44jastai wonder if this 220k /system/etc/NOTICE.html file is going to be in the final build :)
04:10.48jastahehe
04:11.12ttuttlejasta: What is it?
04:11.33unix_infideljasta: also makes me wonder how updates are going to be handed out...
04:11.42ttuttleunix_infidel: Magic.
04:12.06jastattuttle: just a stupid legal agreement
04:12.11ttuttlejasta: Oh.
04:12.20ttuttlejasta: I know what it's there for, I think.
04:12.21jastaa big stinkin waste of 220k i say
04:12.27ttuttlejasta: Is it popped up in the setup wizard?
04:12.33ttuttlejasta: Maybe they should at least gzip it?
04:12.34jastawhat setup wizard?
04:12.45unix_infidelttuttle: i think it involes larry and sergey skating around the earth so fast that it reverses time until 24 hours before RTM.
04:14.54muthuhow can i make the entire toggle button take the selection color (green in this case)?
04:15.07muthuclick a toggle, if its selected, turn green
04:15.21romainguymuthu: change it's background drawable to use your own images
04:15.31muthuam trying to avoid using anything my own
04:15.45ttuttleunix_infidel: heh
04:15.45muthucan i get the toggle's selection as a resource?
04:16.02muthuits not public..
04:16.06romainguymuthu: then you can't make it green
04:16.10muthuhehe
04:16.19muthuhmm.. ok, i'll put my own color
04:17.20muthuunselected toggle will be red, selected will be green.. yoooohooo
04:26.00muthuwhat you folks think of uploading the app to market without testing it on G1?
04:26.44ttuttlemuthu: I think you should test it.
04:27.01muthuisn't the emulator close enough?
04:27.05ttuttlemuthu: Eh.
04:27.17romainguymuthu: the problem is the way some apps are designed
04:27.38romainguyfor instance some apps are badly designed for landscape even though the G1 requires landscape to have access to the keyboard
04:27.56romainguyor for instance some apps do not stop the GPS correctly, resulting in bad battery performance
04:27.58romainguyetc.
04:28.06muthugot it
04:28.08romainguythere are also apps who tried to make smaller widgets than the default ones
04:28.19muthuhaha
04:28.19romainguyand the widgets are thus too small and very annoying to touch
04:28.39muthuwhat's the approximate scale?
04:28.46muthuis it like 0.6
04:28.56muthui'm using 0.66 now in emu
04:29.01ttuttlemuthu: What does it do?
04:29.10muthuscale it to smaller G1 size
04:29.23ttuttlemuthu: No, I mean what does your app do?
04:29.41muthuhttp://mobeegal.in
04:29.49muthuwe do google ;)
04:30.07taazromainguy: there should be a guidelines doc with a pre-release checklist like that
04:31.08muthudon't think an app would completely fail to start, if its been tested well in emu
04:33.01muthuwhy do we have this light theme?
04:33.17muthuits never been supported
04:33.24muthustill its there..
04:33.44plusminus_muthu: yes some apps do weird things
04:33.56ttuttlemuthu: I could probably give it a try and let you know if it works decently.
04:34.03muthusure
04:34.05plusminus_s.o. tested an app of mine and it asked for probably every possible Permisson I have ever seen !
04:34.18gamblerlandscape access requiring keyboard seems really device specific...
04:34.31muthuttuttle: thx, i'll let you know
04:34.34ttuttlegambler: So, landscape is just generally a good idea.
04:34.39ttuttlegambler: Most devices do not have square screens.
04:34.42plusminus_almost like the CAN_DESTROY_DEVICE - permission
04:34.46tomgibaragambler: actually it's keyboard requires landscape
04:34.53romainguygambler: that's because there's no soft keyboard yet
04:35.09plusminus_romainguy: 'Not yet' ?
04:35.24romainguyplusminus_: we are writing a mobile OS
04:35.31gamblerhrm
04:35.32romainguyour goal is to support as many configurations as possible
04:35.35ahaberlachoZOMG!!1! FEATURE L33K!
04:35.43romainguyincluding devices with no keyboards... or with only 12 keys... etc.
04:35.45tomgibaraAll devices will have device specific characteristics
04:35.52romainguytomgibara: :))
04:35.53plusminus_;) I was wondering since m3 why there is no sw keyboard
04:35.54ttuttleahaberlacho: Android 2.0 is going to have mind control robots!  Better not tell #andro... $#%^@$%^@#$%#$% NO CARRIER
04:36.08plusminus_:D
04:36.09muthuwoah!
04:36.29ahaberlachowonders how many people here have actually had a session end in NO CARRIER.
04:36.45ttuttleahaberlacho: I have.  I used to have <shame>AOL</shame>.
04:37.11ahaberlacho<-- CompuServe.  Back when they charged different rates for 300 and 1200/2400 baud.
04:37.13muthuplusminus_: so the device, asking for new permissions?
04:38.29ttuttleahaberlacho: wow
04:38.41muthua bug report direct from G1 wold be nice
04:43.01plusminus_muthu: See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSOiQsYLrEA
04:43.15muthuwatching
04:44.04plusminus_that is definitely(!) not what the AndroidManifest says @lol
04:44.36plusminus_like SMS , Calls, Systools...
04:45.16muthuarggh.. flash player broken
04:45.35muthuno idea what broke it
04:46.27ttuttlemuthu: /me hates Flash player.
04:46.40muthume too
04:47.01plusminus_i love it.. if it works as it should ;)
04:47.17ttuttleplusminus_: So, I love Microsoft when they write stable software that does what I want.
04:47.58plusminus_:P I'm totally fine with vista (except the search-mechanism is totally crap, like always)
04:49.17plusminus_awesome, I found a street in the OSM-Data that is called "FIXME, FIXME"
04:50.00ttuttleDamnit, the video player is crapping out on my file.
04:50.15ttuttlewants, just for ONCE, an embedded device where the video player actually plays any valid file.
04:50.38muthuttuttle: there's a lot of players working on such mediaplayer for android
04:51.02muthuwe'll see some exciting media players soon
04:51.06ttuttlemuthu: Yeah, but they're all going to use the same mediaplayer class.
04:51.15muthumight not
04:51.23ttuttlemuthu: nah, they'd have to implement it in java.
04:51.55muthunot sure, but heard they are workin g on it
04:52.02ttuttlewho?
04:52.05muthua few
04:52.25muthuin forums etc.,
04:52.29muthuremember seeing it
04:52.31ttuttlehmm
05:03.30muthuandroid is changing peoples life
05:06.04unix_infidelwow, if the latest spyshots are true, the new macbooks look fugly.
05:07.13muthuapple has only one way to go now
05:09.50summatusmentisunix_infidel: I disagree, I like the latest spyshots much better than my current white plastic macbook
05:16.57Adamantunix_infidel: they look pretty close to a MBP with a MB kb
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05:37.53jastattuttle: well, you'd need to port mplayer then :)
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06:07.57living_swordis there an equivalent api for Java2D animations ?
06:09.46living_swordor do we use OpenGL for 2D animations ?
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06:11.30romainguyliving_sword: it's called SGL or Skia
06:11.37romainguyyou use it with a Canvas object
06:17.07living_swordromainguy: thanx, but nothing about SGL in the docs.
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06:25.10living_swordthink i got it. is it mentioned at android.graphics ?
06:30.40living_swordromainguy: some classes dont have comments, should i assume these classes are not stable ?
06:31.04MrSnowflakebasically, yes!
06:32.32living_swordthanx
06:34.11MrSnowflakenp, but no documentation doesn't mean you _can't_ use it!
06:34.21MrSnowflakejust take in to account it could be unstable
06:34.44living_swordok
06:35.55muthulost count of all these disclaimers
06:36.00muthuno docs but can use it
06:36.10muthupublic but will be unstable
06:36.16muthuprivate but might be made public
06:36.21muthuundocumented, but stable
06:36.27muthustable, but deprecated
06:36.30muthu...
06:36.48MrSnowflake:)
06:36.53muthu:)
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06:38.40tomgibaraThat's rubbish
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06:50.08rjaymthis is sort of off-topic, does anyone know if I can get a g1 pre-ordered as a non-existing t-mobile customer if I get a junky phone/plan and then order the g1?
06:51.41jastarjaym: the pre-orders i don't even think are still open.  dude, the thing comes to retail stores in like a week
06:52.08rjaymya, but it seems like there won't be any on day one
06:52.16jastayes there will be lots
06:52.19rjaympeople will line up like they did for the iphone 3g
06:52.27jastawell then get in line with them
06:52.36rjaymand I sorta need a phone for work, and mine just broke so I'm in this wierd situation
06:52.57rjaymya just thinking maybe I could beat the line by buying a junky 50$ phone then pre-ordering
06:53.43tomgibaraSorry to be so short, but it's all I had time to type: Google engineers have said nothing about undocumented being unstable, nor (afaik) is any part of the API deprecated
06:54.35muthuoh ok
06:54.49muthunow we know what you meant
06:55.15muthubut if that's what you meant, then its stupid
06:57.12MrSnowflaketomgibara: I remember reading somewhere on some google site, that when come api wasn't documented, it wasn't supposed to be used.
06:57.23tomgibaraI agree that there have been many points of 'unclarity' from the first preview release to the 1.0 SDK (excacerbated by the NDA), but the position on 1.0 seems clear
06:59.01tomgibaraMrSnowflake: Yes, there were entire tranches of the API which were completely undocumented, and then removed, but that was in the earliest (most raw) releases.
06:59.35MrSnowflakeok
06:59.49MrSnowflakeyet SoundPool is undocumented and seems to be very buggy
06:59.59MrSnowflakeThere's a pattern!!! ;-
07:00.02MrSnowflake*;)
07:00.47tomgibaraIf they weren't committing to supporting the api (buggy or not), they wouldn't have left it in 1.0
07:02.00MrSnowflakeYes I know the SoundPool will stay, but it is really buggy and not documented, so non-documented code seems to be not really trusthworthy
07:05.13tomgibaraDoesn't prove much, MediaPlayer is documented and that's buggy
07:11.58MrSnowflakeYeah, but that's the other way around.
07:12.15MrSnowflakeAny way, you are right.
07:12.21gdsxtomgibara, MrSnowflake: If an API is hidden (undocumented), it is liable to change
07:12.30gdsxthat doesn't mean it _will_ change, but it might
07:12.41MrSnowflakeIs anything known about a r2 release with the release of the G1?
07:12.56gdsxAPIs that are documented will, in all foreseeable cases, be supported for a long time
07:12.57MrSnowflakehmm, strange v1 api...
07:13.19MrSnowflakeI thought the V1.0 api was suposed to be final
07:13.48tomgibaragdsx: I was using the term undocumented in the sense that it appears in the list of documented classes, but has no comments associated with it.
07:14.14gdsxtomgibara: do you have an example?
07:14.57tomgibaragdsx: MrSnowflake gave the example of SoundPool
07:15.20gdsxMrSnowflake: I'm not sure about that.  The goal is that, whatever 1.0 is, we won't break compatibility with applications using published 1.0 APIs for a very long time (if ever)
07:16.10gdsxtomgibara: dunno, I haven't run across it
07:16.47MrSnowflakegdsx: ok, so if I write an app now, using SoundPool (ie), it will work on say v1.0r9?
07:16.52gdsxtomgibara: I would say that if you see something that's not documented, ask romainguy.  But likely, if there's not documentation, you should avoid using it if you want to guarantee that your app keeps working when APIs are updated
07:17.00MrSnowflakeeventough the soundpool api changed?
07:17.18gdsxMrSnowflake: I don't know, but if soundpool isn't documented, I would probably bet against it
07:17.27tomgibaragdsx: I wasn't worrying about lack of documentation :) It was MrSnowflake
07:17.33gdsxMrSnowflake: I'm not really the best person to talk to about this stuff though, unfortunately
07:17.42gdsxtomgibara: I know.  I'm saying you might want to start worrying
07:17.50MrSnowflake:D
07:18.07tomgibaragdsx: afaik, SoundPool is the only undocumented class in the entire API (I might be wrong though)
07:18.25tomgibaraIt's certainly the only one I've encountered, and I've used most of them
07:18.48MrSnowflaketomgibara: that's good news then.
07:19.09gdsxtomgibara: ask romainguy, then; he would know
07:24.40tomgibaraActually one example of a class which is entirely undocumented is EGL10, its a good counterexample, because its clearly a core part of the API - presumably is wasn't documented because it's known
07:27.29MrSnowflakeActually there are a lot of undocumented classes.
07:41.17tomgibaraMrSnowflake: In the android packages?
07:41.30gdsxtomgibara: not necessarily.  There's no problem with breaking API compatibility internally, because we can fix the API users without anyone finding out
07:42.15gdsxtomgibara: if an external app uses a non-stable API, there's some likelihood that the app will break when the API changes out from under it
07:42.44tomgibaragdsx: I understand that, I'm only referring to the published APIs in this instance
07:42.57gdsxok, anyway, bed calls.  g'night :o)
07:43.05tomgibaragn
07:48.00MrSnowflakegn
07:48.40MrSnowflaketomgibara: oh the android package, dunno about that.
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09:04.07muthurain rain
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09:05.16MrSnowflakenot here I believe
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09:05.22muthupouring in chennai
09:05.32muthunothing beats rain watching :)
09:05.41MrSnowflake:)
09:05.59MrSnowflakeI like thunderstorms, they are awsome to watch :)
09:06.14muthuha, bit scary
09:06.29muthuespecially texas, oklahoma
09:06.55MrSnowflakeHehe yeah, but here in the EU it's pretty safe :)
09:07.08muthuyeah, in india too
09:07.35muthuMrSnowflake: how's your app coming along?
09:09.16MrSnowflakeit's on googlecode: snowservices.googlecode.com
09:09.24MrSnowflakeYesterday I was working on DroidGaming
09:09.37muthusnowservices.. hmm
09:09.38muthuchecking
09:09.55muthuwhat it do?
09:10.41MrSnowflakeIt's a little framework which should make it more easy to develop games using the SurfaceView
09:10.49muthucool
09:11.07MrSnowflakeIt's starts a seperate thread and gives you a listener which you should implement to make the game
09:11.15MrSnowflakemuthu: I hope :)
09:11.19muthuinteresting
09:11.53muthudo you follow java event model?
09:11.55MrSnowflakeIt's something like Ogro only 1/1000000*10E+23 in size :)
09:12.06MrSnowflakedunno
09:12.11MrSnowflake:)
09:12.12muthuok
09:12.23muthuwho knows?-)
09:12.54MrSnowflakewhat's the java event model?
09:13.05MrSnowflakelike with the listener interfaces and such? :/
09:13.06muthujava.event package
09:13.09muthuyeah
09:13.14muthubut android seems to avoid that
09:15.09MrSnowflakejava.awt.event?
09:15.18muthuyup
09:15.34MrSnowflakethen obviously I'm not using it :)
09:16.01MrSnowflakeBut it has some resemblance I guess. Yet it only has 3 (now 4) methods in the listener
09:16.33muthuright.. the only thing is maintaining the listeners
09:16.44MrSnowflakehehe yeah.. :)
09:16.49muthuand making sure the events are delivered right
09:17.04muthuthe java sdk had some support for it
09:17.11muthunot sure if android has built in like that
09:17.13MrSnowflakedidn't know.
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09:19.37MrSnowflakeseeing KeyEvent in Android has Object as its super, I guess android doesn't really do this
09:19.46muthuyup
09:20.01muthuso we need to cook up our own
09:20.08MrSnowflake:)
09:20.14muthu:(
09:20.17muthuhehe
09:20.36muthuwhy android doesn't include event support is a mystery
09:21.04MrSnowflakeone of the many
09:21.11muthutrue
09:24.03MrSnowflakewhere can I find info about the event delivery stuff you said? (that is where in the docs?)
09:24.17muthuyou mean java sdk?
09:24.56MrSnowflakeyes
09:25.08muthulet me check
09:25.13MrSnowflakethanks!
09:27.19muthuits in java tutorial in sun website
09:27.27muthuswing/uiswing/events/index.html
09:27.48MrSnowflakeok thanks, but I almost use the same system as that
09:28.04muthujavapassion.com
09:28.10muthuanother resource
09:28.56MrSnowflakethanks, I'll have a look
09:29.02muthuguess it comes with swing docs
09:29.20muthuhaven't looked it for a while.. but am sure its bundled with jdk docs
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09:58.13MrSnowflakeI there a way in eclipse to define somekind of #regions like it's possible in Visual Studio
09:58.56MrSnowflake*Is
10:22.38MrSnowflakeWhat java code would be faster? concerning an ArrayList: using the iterator with a while(iterator.hasnext)
10:22.48MrSnowflakeof for(int i = 0; i < arraList.size(); ++i)?
10:41.20MrSnowflakek, for the record, the iterator seems to be __BLAZING__ fast
10:41.33muthureally?
10:41.47muthuoh yeah.. its an arraylist
10:41.50MrSnowflakeja
10:41.54MrSnowflakeuh hehe yes :)
10:42.26muthuyou're reading performance tips & tricks, he? ;)
10:43.05MrSnowflakeno, I was just wondering and wrote my own test app :)
10:43.35muthuya, performance needs to be kept in mind
10:43.45MrSnowflakeindeed
10:43.57MrSnowflakeI'm rewriting my code to be more event oriented
10:44.04muthunice
10:44.15MrSnowflakethere is an EventObject in the docs
10:44.20MrSnowflakeSo I'm using that
10:44.27muthuin android?
10:44.29MrSnowflakeyes
10:44.34MrSnowflakejava.util.EventObejct
10:44.38muthuha
10:44.41muthuthat's the one
10:44.50muthuok, its in java.util
10:45.08MrSnowflakeBut as I need to iterate through my listeners, it have to find the quickest way :)
10:45.23muthulook in util
10:45.30muthuthere will be more event helpers
10:45.47muthuactually look in java src
10:45.53muthuwhere they maintain the listeners
10:46.00muthuthat's the quickest way
10:47.05MrSnowflakeok, I'll try it out
10:49.53MrSnowflakeOk, the iterator is actually a lot slower :)
10:50.02muthuhehe
10:50.09MrSnowflakefound an error in my code :)
10:50.21muthulol
10:53.39pjvMrSnowflake: you wanna use something like for(Item item: arraList){}, which is the default way since java 1.5, but you'll need to use an ArrayList<Item>(whats tha called again? generics??)
10:54.05muthugenerics, yup
10:54.30MrSnowflakepjv: Thanks, but in the Android docs the use of the extended loop is said to be slow with an ArrayList
10:54.59pjvhmm
10:58.06MrSnowflakepjv: http://code.google.com/android/toolbox/performance.html#foreach
11:02.01pjvI remember reading this
11:02.20pjvsounds like something a compiler should optimize
11:02.55pjvanyhow, the balance still tips to the enhanced for loop for me because it's very readable, while the others are faster
11:03.29pjvthe clue is to only optimize where it would make a difference, i.e. in a very important and frequent loop
11:03.56pjvnot sure if that's the case for you, MrSnowflake
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11:05.54muthupjv: right, optimize only if required
11:06.36MrSnowflakeI know optimizing should only be done in the most preformance critical situations
11:06.48MrSnowflakeAnd my situation is the most preformance critical possible :D
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12:19.12tomgibaraMrSnowflake: If it's extremely performance sensitive consider: using an array or allowing only one listener
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12:33.13MrSnowflaketomgibara: Thanks, I thought about both. 1 listener seems to few. But an array could probably do, as the game state won't change 10times a sec, so creating and destroying an array could be viable
12:34.06tomgibaraWhy create and destroy the array?
12:34.07MrSnowflakeMaybe if I make 3 dispatcher classes, using the 3 methods, the user can choose themselfs which strategy to use
12:34.21MrSnowflakebecause they can remove the listeners too?!
12:35.52tomgibaraIf you grow the array as necessary, and then keep a count of the number of listeners, the app should typically reach a steady state quickly, where you don't need to do any allocations in response to listener removal.
12:36.57tomgibaraA dispatcher class might be a good model, but remember that it adds overhead to every strategy
12:37.49MrSnowflakeIf I want to grow the array, I need to destoy it (implicitly)
12:38.51tomgibaraOnly if you want to store more listeners than your array has elements, will you need to grow the array.
12:39.35MrSnowflakeofcourse
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12:41.50living_swordis the power consumption more with 2D on Canvas or 2D on OpenGL ?
12:42.34tomgibaraliving_sword: Doing what? :)
12:42.40erus`depends how often your re-drawing
12:43.28living_swordtomgibara: custom views
12:44.10MrSnowflakeliving_sword: I suppose 2D canvas, as you don't (ever) need the 3d hardware.
12:44.18MrSnowflakeYet, Canvas isn't hw accellerated
12:44.50living_swordbut with OpenGL I bypass the View hierarchy which lends speed.
12:45.26MrSnowflakeliving_sword: The same can be achived by using a SurfaceView
12:45.33tomgibaraliving_sword: You can bypass the View hierarchy with a SurfaceView (which is what I assumed you were talking about)
12:46.48MrSnowflaketomgibara: Don't all View's (TextView, ...) use a SurfaceView internally? or are they all software drawn (in draw())
12:47.31living_swordhmm..im going through LunarLander, I believe SurfaceView is halfway between Canvas and OpenGL.
12:48.09MrSnowflakeSurfaceView is supposed to be somewhat HW accellerated
12:49.20tomgibaraThere is (I assume) a Surface onto which all Views render, I doubt if that is provided by a SurfaceView.
12:50.08living_swordsetting aside the speed issue, will a SurfaceView eat more power than a Canvas ?
12:50.23MrSnowflaketomgibara: I believe the SurfaceView allows access to the Surface you describe
12:50.56MrSnowflaketomgibara: be it in a confined region
12:51.10tomgibaraIt does, but the idea that the framework is rendering views onto a view by default is silly
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12:51.39tomgibaraA surface is a low-level (poss. hardware supported) buffer of pixel data
12:52.01tomgibaraA SurfaceView is a widget
12:52.37MrSnowflakeYeah, I know but the surfaceview gives you access to the surface, doesn't it?
12:52.58MrSnowflakek, nvrmnd
12:53.05MrSnowflakemissed you 1ste post
12:53.19tomgibaraYes :) All I'm drawing attention to is that you said "Don't all View's (TextView, ...) use a SurfaceView internally?" - no they don't
12:53.54MrSnowflakek, slipup of words :) sorry :)
12:54.00tomgibaranp :)
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12:56.28MrSnowflakeliving_sword: I don't know any of such, I suppose a Surface would be more power efficient, as it _could_ use dma, which, as I assume, uses less power
12:56.50tomgibaraI suspect it's going to depend on what you're rendering
12:56.56MrSnowflakeliving_sword: But those are only speculations on my part. And I'm no hardware guru by anymeans!
12:58.42living_swordsome custom views. I guess i'll choose Canvas, unless theres compelling evidence not to. :)
13:00.21MrSnowflakeliving_sword: I think that's a good idea for custom Views. For games that would be different
13:01.02living_swordthanks for your opinions.
13:01.12MrSnowflakenp
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13:53.17plusminus_Mornin :)
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13:55.47plusminus_Thanks everyone: http://www.anddev.org/andnav_-_how_much_would_you_spend-t3146.html
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13:56.12MrSnowflakelo +-
13:57.21MrSnowflakewhat's the difference between realtime navigation and the one andnav uses?
13:59.52plusminus_the version of andnav that will be out on 22nd won't conatin realtime nav, because of the licensing issues.
14:00.11plusminus_(realtime nav is what you know from like TomTom)
14:00.25plusminus_'AndNav2' will do that
14:00.42tethridgewhat map service will you use?
14:00.49tethridgefor andnav2?
14:00.53plusminus_but I probably won't get that out until 22nd, especially as realtime nav requires some testing ;)
14:01.02MrSnowflake:)
14:01.13MrSnowflakeI'm able to test if you'd like :)
14:01.31plusminus_tethridge: AndNav1 --> GoogleMaps ; AndNav2 --> OpenStreetMaps
14:01.37plusminus_MrSnowflake: also a G1 ?
14:01.45MrSnowflakeOh you mean real device :)
14:01.50plusminus_yeah
14:01.56MrSnowflakehehe ofcourse stupid of me.. :)
14:02.42plusminus_it works fine in the emulator, but some guys(2) tested it on a G1 and there were big problems getting GPS-position...
14:02.55plusminus_what is kinda trivial o_O
14:03.00MrSnowflakeProblem with openstreet maps is, there are very few roads in belgium
14:03.12plusminus_and I have no ida why :'(
14:03.20MrSnowflakestrange
14:03.36MrSnowflakeprob some small thingy you didn't do according to Androids likings :)
14:04.19plusminus_If you rode a route once, the second time AndNav2 will probably contain the route :) Its self-improving (better to say OSM will get that route (anonymously) and put it to their database, which I build upon))
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14:04.57MrSnowflakeOh, I really like that feature! Especially if we could name the streets. I would actively use such a feat
14:05.04MrSnowflake(yeah I'm a sucker :D )
14:05.15plusminus_Hm... while driving ;)
14:05.53MrSnowflakeIt could detect a new street and ask you to stop to enter the name and number you currently at
14:06.10plusminus_the user will have the possibility to choose a seperate osm-account (not the common andnav one) which he then can modify later on (on the osm/website).
14:06.33plusminus_(... modify the route driven)
14:07.16ttuttleWhat's AndNav?
14:07.50tethridgeplusminus_, is the g1 going to be able to use the gps for navigation based on your initial testing?
14:08.19tethridgeI heard that the iphone didn't work that well as a replacement for a tom-tom or garmin gps
14:08.37tethridgeI've heard of devs trying to build the same thing you're working on for the iphone
14:08.47plusminus_doesn't the iiphone completely disallow navigation or sth ??
14:08.56ttuttleplusminus_: Yep.
14:09.07plusminus_http://andnav.org
14:09.10ttuttleplusminus_: They want to sell their own navigation software, so you can't write any.  Lovely, isn't it?
14:09.15tethridgeI'm not sure of the details.  I thought I read that tom-tom was looking at creating a version for it
14:09.46tethridgeplusminus_, so does the g1 hardware work for your app?
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14:09.57plusminus_tom-tom probably will, but it will be much more expensive and very probably require continouous map-pack updates
14:10.11plusminus_tethridge: got no G1 but in the emulator it works fine
14:10.36tethridgewhy don't you get some of these fine google engineers to try it out now?
14:10.37tethridge:-)
14:11.15MrSnowflakeplusminus: but your nav thingy always requires internet access
14:11.30plusminus_hm .. yes it does
14:11.35plusminus_for maptiles
14:11.41plusminus_(but they get cached)
14:11.47ttuttleWow, looks cool.
14:11.48plusminus_and at least once for the route itself
14:12.04plusminus_ttuttle: what you just saw is illegal ;)
14:12.11ttuttleplusminus_: What?
14:12.20plusminus_not allowed by the GoogleMaps ToS
14:12.26ttuttleplusminus_: Oh, that's lame. :-(
14:12.30plusminus_so I had to switch to OSM
14:12.35ttuttleplusminus_: Probably a liability issue.
14:12.42MrSnowflakeThat's the plus of tomtom: when driving abroad (happens a lot if you live in Belgium) you don't have to pay hard cache :)
14:12.59ttuttleMrSnowflake: ba-da-boom
14:13.45plusminus_MrSnowflake: you could set the cache to 1GB :-P
14:14.03plusminus_so you need to browse just once and have the tiles 'forever'
14:14.27MrSnowflakeI just saw you can download xml files from osm, suppose you could optionally use them?
14:14.28plusminus_there always are tradeoffs for thin-clients like andnav
14:14.41plusminus_it will be just about 1Mb in size
14:15.04MrSnowflakeIn the states such a thing will prob work, as you don't have to roam between states (As is understand)
14:15.10MrSnowflake*I
14:15.26plusminus_that would pump it up to hundreds of megabytes
14:15.40plusminus_and might get painfully slow
14:16.08plusminus_getting the route with a simple http-request can be incredibly fast, especially on 3G
14:16.28plusminus_the data returned is not big, around 50kn
14:16.30plusminus_b
14:16.37plusminus_.. got to work a bit now ;)
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14:18.19MrSnowflake+-: but the xml's should be optional
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14:20.44muthu1imagebutton shows image + text, right?
14:21.00muthu1icon is shown.. where did the text go?
14:22.00MrSnowflakemuthu1: I think imagebuttons don't have text
14:24.02muthu1looks like it
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15:13.19ttuttleexplains to his phone that "silent" does not mean DO NOT TELL ME WHEN SOMEONE IS CALLING ME FOR A PHONE INTERVIEW.
15:13.46cbeust_You should have picked the profile "Silent except if a recruiter calls me"
15:13.57ttuttlecbeust_: Yeah :-\
15:14.10ttuttleis also dismayed to find that calling the number back does not work.
15:21.14ttuttleOh well, I'll try to schedule a new one.
15:21.32muthu1ttuttle: where's the interview?
15:21.46ttuttlemuthu1: It was a phone interview.
15:21.57ttuttlemuthu1: My trusty G1 obeyed me and remained silent as the recruiter called me twice :-\
15:22.07ttuttlemuthu1: I mean, it was a n00b mistake.  I turned off vibrate by accident.
15:22.12muthu1ha
15:22.30ttuttle(The real WTF is that I wasn't sitting in a quiet room waiting for the phone call.)
15:22.53muthu1hmm, he'll catch you..
15:22.55ttuttle(Which, of course, I can blame on Google Calendar for not telepathically figuring out that I needed a reminder.)
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15:23.09ttuttlemuthu1: Yeah, I assume some percentage of phone interviews are missed connections.
15:24.07muthu1aren't you with google?
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15:32.23muthu1http://alsutton.wordpress.com/2008/10/14/where-googles-android-may-have-already-failed/
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15:40.25*** topic/#android by morrildl -> On the 22nd, it begins Fo' Realz.
15:40.53muthu1morrildl: when the market opens?
15:43.32SanMehatFo' Realz?!
15:43.47morrildlSanMehat: YES.
15:43.53morrildlFO' REALZ, YO
15:44.29zer0her0of course that's the day i leave for a week and won't have internet access
15:47.25muthu1yo morrildl
15:47.31muthu1is the market open for public?
15:48.09morrildlmuthu1: not yet
15:48.44muthu1make it open..
15:48.50zer0her0hah
15:48.54muthu1all of the events so far
15:49.04muthu1"open" is only in the "OHA" title
15:49.19muthu1or change OHA to CHA ;)
15:50.08muthu1so far its all about NDA, private, small group, limited, US only
15:50.27zhobbsmuthu1: it'll be open, t-mobile and HTC just gotta get their moneys worth with a good launch...after that it should be free reign
15:50.58muthu1hope so
15:52.20zer0her0agreed.
15:52.24muthu1zhobbs: how's tunewiki shaping up?
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15:58.45muthu1developers in india are getting ready for android
15:59.28michaelnovakjr_jeez stop changing your name
15:59.53michaelnovakjr_are they putting on their i <3 muthu shirts?
16:00.03muthu1hehe
16:00.17muthu1i <3 android shirts
16:01.51jastamichaelnovakjr_: changing his name?  hehe, you know a while back muthu switched his nick and was in here trolling like a 12 year old
16:02.01michaelnovakjr_haha so i hear
16:02.05jastait was really pathetic
16:02.12michaelnovakjr_i could only imagine
16:02.27muthu1that'll happen once a month
16:02.36muthu1so hang on for the next session
16:02.44michaelnovakjr_are you serious?
16:02.58muthu1yup
16:03.16michaelnovakjr_why would you do that..... its incredibly stupid
16:03.32muthu1to be incredibly stupid
16:03.48michaelnovakjr_you definitely are a moron
16:03.54muthu1hehe
16:04.01michaelnovakjr_i wasn't joking :)
16:04.09muthu1hehe
16:04.20muthu1who cares about michaelnovakjr
16:05.35muthu1what happened to your random app, michaelnovakjr?
16:05.42michaelnovakjr_random?
16:05.42zhobbsmuthu1: tunewiki is coming along pretty well
16:05.56muthu1zhobbs: nice
16:06.11michaelnovakjr_what random app are you talking about?
16:06.21muthu1the one you wrote
16:06.28michaelnovakjr_?
16:07.32jastamuthu1: i might submit that the measure of a man is not the product he produces.
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16:08.39muthu1jasta: why the heck are you talking about measure of a man now?
16:08.52muthu1makes no sense
16:09.00jastayou did, you suggested we not care about michaelnovakjr.
16:12.54muthu1if you care about someone who's serious about calling others morons, then you have a real problem
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16:21.19michaelnovakjr_muthu1, you are a moron
16:21.24michaelnovakjr_you have proven it
16:21.28michaelnovakjr_its not an opinion
16:21.36michaelnovakjr_its based on your actions
16:21.53muthu1feel free
16:22.19jastabetter quiet down lest the moderators disagree with you :)
16:22.29muthu1hehe
16:22.39muthu1jasta: bet you
16:22.49michaelnovakjr_jasta, disagree with me?
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16:22.54jastayeah
16:23.10SanMehatguys...
16:23.10michaelnovakjr_someone trolling around like a 12 year old isn't a moron?
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16:23.40michaelnovakjr_i don't have patience for morons
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16:24.20jastawhy can't there be fist fights on irc?  aww ;)
16:24.29yakischlobai think you guys should compare your android dicks and see who's is biggest
16:24.57zhobbshaha
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16:29.04bricodeGuess people are bored waiting for the actual hardware to be available...
16:29.33_moronhey, how's it going?
16:29.44bricodeCan anyone confirm that the audio subsystem is based on ALSA?
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16:35.19androidrockshow to do a checked menu item?
16:36.05SanMehatbricode: the audio system is not based on alsa
16:36.31bricodeSanMehat: OSS?
16:36.33jeldguys, sorry for a rather stupid question. I am trying to get a button click to change something on the same screen, all I need to do is call some methods from my main Activity class, but how do I get my activity instance from inside the OnClickListener ?
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16:36.36windowsrefundhello
16:37.01windowsrefundis android 100% free software?
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16:37.31androidrocksjeld: get the context
16:37.43androidrocksor use "Activity".class
16:37.53androidrockserr.. "Activity".this
16:38.41jeldandroidrocks, what?
16:38.58rayadojeld:  is your OnClickListener an inner class of your Activity?
16:39.12jeldandroidrocks, where do I get the context from, it seems like I get passed a View in the onClick, and I guess the View is the Button that got pressed
16:39.23jeldrayado, yes
16:39.36jeldrayado, I define the onclick methods inside the onCreate
16:39.42rayadoin that case, YourActivity.this will be your activity
16:39.49jeldrayado, heh
16:39.53jeldrayado, lemme try
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16:45.14jeldhow do I log messages to the logcat?
16:46.55androidrocksLog.i
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16:51.02Disconnectjeld: http://code.google.com/android/kb/commontasks.html#logging (i happened to be on that page anyway :) ..)
16:51.23jeldDisconnect, thanx
16:51.27jeldandroidrocks, thanx
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16:53.23windowsrefunddoes a pdf reader exist for android?
16:53.53Hai-Faiif one creates such a thing
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16:54.53jeldfreaky, all I have is a List called results bound to a ListView via ArrayAdapter. When I call results.clear() I get UnsupportedOperation
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16:58.48Disconnectwow the eclipse layout editor is a huge memory hog
16:58.54Disconnectgigs and gigs
16:59.53jeldDisconnect, looks like it starts eating too much once in a while, I am running it and it takes maybe a couple hundred megs, but once or twice a day it will go and gobble up all the memory on the system
16:59.57androidrockslooks like the checked menu item can only be shown in a group
17:00.21Disconnectyah - triggered by doing text edits mostly i think. looks like its trying to update the layout display even when it knows its broken.
17:02.29jeldDisconnect, yes, I noticed that it mostly happened to me when editing layouts
17:04.09jastayawn
17:04.24jastaDisconnect: that thing has never even worked for me
17:04.27jastait always freaks out
17:04.29Disconnectheh
17:04.35jastabut i dont really see the point so, meh :)
17:05.35Disconnectlooking at http://code.google.com/android/devel/ui/layout.html .. looks like i can say linear, fill_parent, then set sizes to 0 and a weight (eg '10' and '20') to split up the screen, right? (if i want the '20' child be 2x the size of the '10') but thats not working for me.
17:05.38Disconnectam i misreading that?
17:08.21Disconnect(assuming i want a display like their right-hand example i might say "Review" size 0 weight 5, "Add" same, ... and hten Comments-textbox size 0 weight 20?)
17:08.34jastathat is how it should work, but only the dimensions you want to stretch would be set to 0px
17:08.34jastathe orientation matters
17:09.20Disconnectok i think that makes more sense.
17:09.36jastaand the 0px thing is just an optimization
17:10.00jastait just tells the layout to not bother computing the potential size during the initial pass, but rather, go back and fill it in exactly with the available space from the rest of the layout
17:11.22Disconnectyah it works now. :)
17:13.23jastaweight requirse a two pass measure btw
17:15.15Disconnect?
17:17.38jastausing weight is somewhat expensive
17:18.34Disconnectah. yah. fortunately its a static view (content changes but not layout) except on orientation change. so hopefully it won't matter
17:18.37jastajust keep that in mind as your layouts become complex
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17:19.43Disconnectyah definitely
17:20.03Disconnectis there another decent way to do a layout like that, without just coding it for current-size screens?
17:20.54jastano, not really
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17:21.10jastaim not recommending you avoid using weight, i'm just telling you to think about it :)
17:21.12Disconnect(the basic "these objects at content size, then {1-3 objects} split the rest" layout)
17:21.14Disconnectheh yah fair enough
17:21.21Disconnectwas just looking for other ways to do it
17:24.20jastaalso, something to keep in mind that you can write custom layouts which are permitted to make further assumptions about your layouts.  for example, if you find that you have a very deeply nested layout structure it might be a good idea to create your own layout that gives you the same level of flexibility but without the deep layout/measure pass
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17:30.52plusminus_Is there a list of tmobile stores that ar selling the G1 on October 22nd
17:30.54plusminus_?
17:31.09plusminus_my local one does not *CHEER*
17:33.10jastaim sure you can call t-mobile and get that info
17:34.57morrildljasta: but he's looking to buy a phone
17:35.10morrildlare you suggesting that he might already have one? ;)
17:35.27jastano, i'm suggesting that he can call t-mobile and ask what stores will be getting a shipment of G1's on the 22nd.
17:35.30jastawhich they would know
17:35.54MrSnowflakemorrildl: he can use the emulator
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17:38.38jastapokes umdk1d3
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17:48.00ttuttlegreetings
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17:51.24jastaam i just being dense?  what is the milestone column for in google code issue list?
17:51.40jastais that for which release the bug belongs to, or which release the bug will be fixed in?
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17:53.19jastahey dougie
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17:57.52plusminus_morrildl: no I got non. if you've got two ... :P
17:58.18Dougie187hey jasta hows it going?
18:00.28jastagreat, getting excited to run Five on a real phone :)
18:00.49jastaworking on some last minute things i really need it to have hehe
18:01.07jastabtw, if anyone is interested in helping out:
18:01.12jastahttp://code.google.com/p/five/issues/list -- everything Medium and over is release critical
18:01.15jasta:P
18:02.17plusminus_MrSnowflake: I'd be fine, if the GPS in the emulator would work similar to GPS on the G1... something seems to be dlightly different
18:02.24plusminus_or I am missing something
18:02.32zhobbsjasta: nice of you to leave 4 issues as optional
18:02.32plusminus_jasta: 22nd is close :)
18:02.38zhobbs:)
18:02.48jastazhobbs: hmm?>
18:03.08zhobbsjasta: only 4 issues are below medium :)
18:03.18jastawell there are lots more optional things i just didnt have the energy to add them
18:03.24zhobbsah
18:03.24jastai created that as a kind of checklist to release hehe
18:04.57jastarealistically, i'd say all this work will let me have a Jan or Feb release.
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18:06.20zhobbsjasta: yeah, that's a lot of work
18:06.53jastai'm ok with it tho.  i didn't do squat for like 5 months after the ADC round 1
18:08.50jastastill, it will be usable when i get my phone on the 22nd ;P
18:09.14jastai plan to have playlist support done by then, which is one of the last usability issues i personally need worked out :)
18:10.30jastahey check out my new player screen
18:11.20jastahttp://five.googlecode.com/files/player-really-new.png
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18:15.40jasonleeso is this 1.5 million pre-order number legit?
18:16.31zhobbsseems high to me
18:17.33jastayeah, i dont buy it.
18:17.39jastai bet its more like 100-200k
18:17.40jastaif that
18:17.47jastafor pre-order, i mean
18:17.50zhobbsjasta: I agree
18:18.05jastathe iphone sold what, 1 million in a week?  do you guys really think android will outsell it in presale alone?  no way.
18:18.31zhobbsno one I know has even heard of it (outside me)
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18:19.43f00f-nice jasta, although i fear the buttons are too small
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18:21.01zhobbsyeah, they probably are too small
18:21.23zhobbsplay with the -scale argument to get it down to the size of an iphone
18:21.35muthu1-scale 0.6
18:21.49zhobbsdepends on your monitor/resolution
18:24.30jastaf00f-: yeah, i'm actually increasing them by smushing the top bar (making more room at the bottom)
18:26.54jastaand then scale the buttons of course
18:27.03jastazhobbs: i've been testing with real devices, actually
18:27.25zhobbsjasta: nice, a G1?
18:27.26jastafriendly googlers and t-mobile employees hehe
18:27.27jastayes
18:27.31zhobbscool
18:27.58unix_lappymaybe not the first day, but probably be able to say you've sold more android devices than Apple.
18:28.23JoeBrainHow do you like the G1?
18:29.56plusminus_self testing or getting it tested ?
18:30.12plusminus_.. @ jasta
18:30.18Acsiahave you seen this: rjdj.me?
18:30.28Acsiaaugmented reality within your iphone
18:30.31Acsiavery cool idea
18:31.11JoeBrainwhat is reality augmented with?
18:31.17unix_lappyJoeBrain: it's fine, some people dont like it though, citing lack of multitouch, lack of 3.5mm, screen bezel is too big, the overall design and color scheme is lacking.
18:31.31jastaplusminus_: getting it tested
18:31.47JoeBrainhrmm those don't bug me too much, you have any pet peeves besides those unix_lappy?
18:31.55AcsiaJoeBrain: you basically program a scene with puredata which can react on the movement of your phone, external sound etc...
18:31.55zhobbslack of 3.5mm jack is weak
18:32.10jastazhobbs: yeah, and combined with lack of stereo bluetooth is a really big problem
18:32.19zhobbssuper weak
18:32.25jastaagreed, i was so disappointed by that
18:32.28JoeBrainI do admit I've been putting myself to sleep w/ a pair of headphones at night attached to iPhone :)
18:32.29unix_lappyit's a practical portable device.  it's not designed to be an iphone....
18:33.09zhobbsif you want to charge and listen you gotta have something like this: http://store.mobilitytoday.com/content/accessories/73-75--3571.htm
18:33.17unix_lappynow, you throw together all the iphone hardware, with android and throw in a keyboard...all under 200 and you've got a winner.  but that's not what the first iteration was designed to be like.
18:33.34JoeBrainG1 is sub-200 USD?
18:33.36unix_lappynor would it be cost effective imho.
18:33.46zhobbsJoeBrain: yeah, $179 + contract
18:34.01JoeBrainah damn is it locked to T-Mo?
18:34.10unix_lappyJoeBrain: in the US you assume contract.  other countries flat out price for a device in it's class is about 400-600
18:34.30JoeBrainah so I could probably import one for about 500 hrmmm
18:34.33jastazhobbs: yeah, and that really sucks for music playback
18:34.41jastabecause a lot of times people use it in the car and stuff
18:34.57jastai'll need some lame dongle off my aux jack in my car
18:35.05jastaand another one for power
18:35.20zhobbsyep
18:35.26jastaand the worst part about the dongle is that it doesn't fit well
18:35.41jastai've used one of these before, and the stupid thing is so back heavy that it flops out of the phone a lot
18:35.49jastaterrible design, argh
18:36.10JoeBrainso no A2DP either huh
18:36.11zhobbsohh well, we'll see some more android phones next year
18:36.13unix_lappyI wish they had the mainstream consumer in mind when designing the device.
18:36.14jastaJoeBrain: nope
18:36.23jastazhobbs: i want A2DP so i can hook up something to use that in my car :)
18:36.24unix_lappyin the tradition of the PMP
18:36.26jastathat would be slick
18:36.28zhobbswe waited a year for this, can wait a bit longer I guess
18:36.42plusminus_zhobbs: no :)
18:36.45plusminus_i want it now
18:36.46unix_lappyzhobbs: the big question is how much longer.
18:36.49zhobbshehe
18:36.55JoeBrainit'll be great when you do development work & it works or is easily portable across multiple devices
18:36.57jastaunix_lappy: actually i think they had google services in mind, and music isn't part of any google services ;)
18:36.58unix_lappyand how much better is the new device going to be.
18:37.07zhobbsyeah, we'll all have contracts with t-mobile, so we'll be stuck when the next device is badass
18:37.08plusminus_better to say... i need it, because I need to debug :(
18:37.29JoeBrainwhat's due date for G1?
18:37.34Disconnectsupposedly its all about the platform. which means you can run it on the n810 and make google fix any g1 bugs :)
18:37.36unix_lappyJoeBrain: topic ^
18:37.40JoeBrainI'm blind
18:37.42JoeBrainthanks :)
18:38.03plusminus_I'll keep my first Android Device forever ^^ (just because its nerdish :) )
18:38.20JoeBrainPretty cool, only a week away
18:38.22jeldamazingly, but my first (very silly) android program actually works
18:38.57JoeBrainI guess I'll have to wait for a handset mfr to make one for ATT if I want cell signal :|
18:39.36unix_lappyjasta: agreed. though I'm not a big fan of music on the go.  I'll likely buy an ipod touch to go along with my G1.
18:39.49jastabut think about why you're not...
18:39.55jastabecause your phone typically sucks at it :)
18:40.04jastaif it didn't suck at it, why on earth would you prefer carrying two devices?
18:40.17JoeBrainlike stuffing your pants w/ socks, right?
18:40.39unix_lappyjasta: that and most usable / portable headphones suck.
18:41.02jastaunix_lappy: how is your ipod touch gonna be different? wherever you carry it you'd need to carry headphones hehe
18:41.21zhobbsunix_lappy: why get a touch? just get a 16 GB sd card
18:41.34JoeBrainMore toys = better
18:41.37unix_lappyzhobbs: that's a given.
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18:42.27unix_lappyit'll be interesting to see how decent transfer speeds.
18:42.46unix_lappyand along those same lines how updates are handled and how fast they are.
18:43.19herriojrhow far away is it?
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18:44.30herriojrwell, it is closer to the train station
18:45.00herriojrmt
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18:51.31DisconnectJoeBrain: fyi at&t and tmob both do gsm. so you just need one unlocked.
18:52.00JoeBrainRight, but don't you usually need to be w/ a carrier for 2 yrs to unlock or something?
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18:52.19Disconnecttmob will do it after 90 days for most everyone (sooner for long-term customers)
18:52.22JoeBrainor do you think eBay will have unlocked ones off the bat?
18:52.23unix_lappyDisconnect: fyi, att & tmobile operate on two different 3g freqs
18:52.35Disconnect3g sure
18:53.12Disconnectbut 99.9% of tmob's coverage is 2g anyway
18:56.45unix_lappytoday, yes.
19:03.24Disconnectthinks worrying about tmob's 3g network tomorrow is about as productive as rushing out to get a wimax device - sure, someday it'll exist, but someday will probably also come with new, better, possibly cheaper devices..
19:04.47JoeBrainNot sure if ATT is expanding 3G, but I'm starting to get the 3G symbol on my iPhone in a lot more places
19:05.33jastaAT&T is growing their 3G network, yes
19:05.39jastathey all are
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19:07.37zhobbsI have a feeling it'll be a long time before I see a 3G symbol after I get a G1
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19:09.25MrSnowflakeSame here, well, I could get 3G almost anywhere here but that would cost some limbs...
19:09.29Disconnectnot me. but thats only cuz i drink in baltimore a couple times a year. :/
19:10.13unix_lappyzhobbs: there are so many things that could go wrong with this release because there are a hundered undisclosed variables.
19:11.08Disconnecti do think its moderately hilarious that one hand is screaming "its a platform!" while the other keeps going "sorry, no <code, agreements, marketplace, docs, ..> until the phone is out."
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19:11.37salviaz0r_testedhello.
19:14.14unix_lappyDisconnect: i'm cautiously optimistic it will work out.
19:15.06dmoffettI wonder if it would not just be better to let the phone come out with the standard Google apps.  Make sure developers get their hands on devices.  Developers then have a chance to test.  Then have the stores open for business.  It would not be good to have a bunch of untested apps show up on the phone and give users a really crappy experience.
19:15.08Disconnecti think they have a huge opportunity to pull a moko and fizzle
19:15.22unix_lappybut when 3 companies with 3 different bottom lines with 3 different investors to cater to stand on a stage and start talking about openess and cooperation....
19:15.48unix_lappyi'm skeptical, but cautiously optimistic.
19:17.03f00f-heh
19:17.24f00f-too late for that dave
19:17.38dmoffettI know I don't want to release with out testing on real hardware but if I see a competitor on the market there will be pressure.
19:17.50f00f-you can still wait ;D
19:17.57dmoffettGuess so, smarter people than I are in charge.  :-)
19:18.02dmoffettI plan to.
19:18.16Disconnectdid they kick phones to the adc winners at least? (noo... so their "wild awesome new best-of-show" multiple-hundred-thousand-dollar winner apps .. will blow sky high as soon as someone waves a phone at them
19:19.02jastasome of them got phones
19:19.18Disconnectit'd be different if the emulator and phone really did work identically but i haven't heard from anyone yet who's managed to get it run on a phone and had it work out of the box as expected.. (but then again, maybe those people aren't loudly posting going "dag nabbit google you f'd up my app!" so.. :) ..)
19:19.29JoeBrainreally? without finagling it from friends like unix_lap?
19:19.41benleyany of you guys played with the itunes remote app?
19:20.18unix_lappyJoeBrain: ?
19:20.29JoeBrainhe was saying that some ADC winners got devices
19:20.54JoeBrainand I mixed your name w/ jasta's
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19:21.21Disconnectjasta: i was going by the published faq (says "cash only no strings")
19:21.25unix_lappya lot of non ADC winners, non google employees, etc have played with the phone, afaik.
19:21.55JoeBrainAny clue where you'd get one?
19:21.55haxiexcuse me, are the official release of android planned yet?
19:21.59Disconnect"played with" .. sure. tons of tmob managers are hauling it around as well :)
19:22.19Disconnecthaxi: the official release is 1.0r1 (ooh its a platform) but the phone comes out next week on t-mobile usa
19:22.37JoeBrainah dern it, I don't have any friends that work for TMo
19:22.54zhobbswow...can't believe it's next week...I better get back to work
19:23.04benleysweet, it really is just a week off
19:23.06haxinext week on USA mh.. Do you think the HTC Dream G1 will be "ported" to france?
19:23.19benleyhaxi: officially or greymarket?
19:23.26benleygreymarket is inevitable
19:23.42haxiofficially.
19:23.58haxiWell, it will depend when it will be out ;P
19:24.23zhobbsanyone here pre-order one?
19:24.33Disconnectdid
19:24.38haxiI hope this phone will simply rock.
19:25.24Disconnecthaxi: http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg282/rizzy811/iphonevsstone.jpg
19:25.47dmoffettOver time Android will be fine, but I suspect there will be some bumps.  Even Apple, who has a press lighting rod, had some bumps.
19:25.52haxiyes? mh...
19:26.11zhobbsDisconnect: lol
19:28.06haxiDisconnect: I'm not a iPhone addict, but my actual phone is gonna be outdated soon (W850i), and I'm looking for a new one. Since I'm a free human being (debian), I'd love to use an android phone. I'm actually looking around new LG's and Samsung's.
19:29.23Disconnectooh 'free human being' i gotta say, while i'm all for freedom, that amuses me. i'm afraid you won't find a "free" phone. gsm chipsets are heavily proprietary and protected...
19:30.43JoeBrainNo MMS does bug me, but only because viewmymessage.com blows chunkies
19:30.44Disconnectbarring that, openmoko is a better bet - the device and software are both open (istr thats the one that published plans, bootloaders, etc) and its already out.
19:30.54JoeBrainOpenMoko has no camera?
19:31.51jastathe neo freerunner will be a great android target when source is out
19:31.55jastai'm so excited about that :)
19:32.04jastai will totally buy one if they get it up stable
19:32.09Disconnectbut i'm not sure you can read this anyway, since the bios, monitor firmware, graphics chip firmware, NIC firmware (ooh don't forget disk controller) and so forth are all non-free :)
19:34.32haxiDisconnect: Yep, i know that some parts are not opensource, but I'd be glad to have an open-source system on my phone ;D
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19:34.54haxiI hope I'll see htc dream G1 ass around here in france soon.
19:36.09zhobbsif you get multiple intents broadcasted to a BroadcastReceiver will it create multiple instances, or just call onReceive() again on an existing instance?
19:36.16Disconnectisn't holding his breath on a complete free-and-really-actually-free android source tree until it appears.. it may well do that, which is great, but..
19:36.44jastaDisconnect: i think enough will come out to port it elsewhere, even if that excludes tons of google apps
19:36.46haxiYou're one of the android dev?
19:36.56haxigoogle apps rocks, yes.
19:37.03Disconnectjasta: i hope so.
19:37.29zhobbsI agree...we'll see it ported
19:38.28jastai also want to see a free app repo open up
19:38.39jastalibre, that is
19:39.11jastastupid english
19:40.13haxilibre, yes. ;)
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19:43.32haxiDo anyone has a good picture of this "htc dream g1"?
19:44.07haxior there is no designs yet?
19:44.48Disconnectt-mobileg1.com
19:44.59Disconnectdream is the in-development codename
19:46.04zhobbshaxi: http://tmobile.modeaondemand.com/htc/g1/
19:46.26haxithanks.
19:47.46SanMehathaxi: welcome to earth
19:49.42haxiberk. the design is NOT ok.
19:50.30benley?
19:52.13haxithis slide is.. not for me :P
19:52.31SanMehathaxi: thats too bad...
19:52.54SanMehathaxi: maybe another future android device will meet your requirements
19:53.38dmoffettI think haxi might be an indictor why there may not be 1.5M units pre sold.  :-)
19:53.46ttuttleSo, here's the thing:
19:54.21haxi; D
19:54.26ttuttleMost of my really technical friends pick up the dream and are somewhere between disgusted and indifferent.  They start poking at it and get annoyed about little details.
19:54.26tethridgeso did they debunk the rumor that 1.5 units were sold?
19:54.48ttuttleBut most of my non-technical friends pick it up and like the keyboard, and think it's cool.
19:55.03ttuttleSo don't take the attitudes of people here as anything like the attitudes of the population at large.
19:55.48Disconnectdmoffett: because he's not in the us and can't buy one? :P)
19:55.49Disconnect:)
19:56.12dmoffettBecause he did not even know a unit existed.
19:56.35tethridgeso they did sell 1.5 million already?
19:56.50ttuttledoes not know, but thinks it would be really awesome.
19:57.12tethridgeI guess we'll see
19:57.19tethridgetmo would brag about that
19:58.04tethridgeif they have sold that many, imagine what would sell if the hardware was like the touch hd specs...
19:58.07JoeBraintech people will never be happy with anything ttuttle :)
20:00.50haxitech people always want more :)
20:00.58haxilike dragon ball z, you see.
20:02.51JoeBrainhrmm no i dont really see, but ok
20:02.52jeldI wonder, how would you go about changing a keyboard map on android device?
20:03.12jeldfor example if I want to type in different language
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20:08.57haxijeld: Maybe you could submit that feature (if it's not implemented yet) to android's devs?
20:09.11jastait would be pretty embarrassing if it didn't exist yet and wasn't known
20:09.28jastai mean, that's the realization that english isn't the only language humans write in :)
20:09.42Disconnectthats like the realization that the usa isn't the only place with developers :)
20:10.02JoeBrainthats the realization we all need to start learning Esperanto!
20:10.33haxioshi-. ;]
20:10.49wastrelni hao
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20:42.34Disconnectmaybe i haven't looked very hard :) but does anyone know off teh top of their head what the license on the sample code in the api docs is?
20:42.44Disconnectcuz that is prolly gonna matter a lot when people start writing commercial apps :/
20:43.36jastaI believe it's Apache 2.0
20:44.16jastaromainguy_: hey, i think i just broke the home app
20:44.28MrSnowflakecool
20:44.28jastait will no longer slide left to right, or open the long press menu
20:44.34jastabut the drawer at the bottom opens fine
20:44.54jastacan't click on any icons on the home screen either, only the ones in the drawer that open
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20:48.14Disconnectjasta: there is an sdk license ("everyhing ours is ours, the risks are all yours" sort of thing) and then the "open source" license. but i wasn't able to find anything concerning the docs.
20:48.49Disconnect(and by extension, the code samples)
20:49.07LenoliumDisconnect: Most of the sample code has explicit Apache 2.0 licenses at the top of it.
20:49.39jastayes, the code samples are def. apache 2.0
20:50.21MrSnowflakeAren't the docs common creators?
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20:53.05Disconnectnot talking about the notepad demo and such, but (for random example) http://code.google.com/android/kb/commontasks.html#alerts .. maybe its stated somewhere obvious and i missed it (it happens)
20:55.32taazwhy would anyone on any platform make example code in docs anything but public domain?
20:56.54Disconnectyou'd be surprised (i was - few years back, on an embedded platform, turned out the totally-broken-anyway zigbee examples they shipped were burn-before-reading nda crap.)
21:02.14romainguy_jasta: yeah, known bug, kill the process or reboot the device
21:03.07*** join/#android plusminus_ (i=4421a620@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-1e6f52a55f1359cf)
21:05.19Disconnectthat does answer my question tho, stated or otherwise its apache 2.0 :) (rather than the locked-up hash in the SDK terms)
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21:07.36MartynHey all ..
21:07.49Martyn*waves* to San, hey man, LTNS
21:08.07JoeBrainHello Martyn
21:08.39Martynandroid.widget.CheckBox ---
21:09.06MartynIf you set an item in the Checkbox with setchecked(true) .. the UI should immediately reflect the change, correct?
21:14.59tomgibararomainguy_: regarding the home app on the emulator: if you drag the drawer open, then shut (without releasing the mouse), it still springs open - that irritates me occasionally when I have second thoughts about opening it.
21:15.09Martynping?
21:15.43romainguy_tomgibara: doesn't happen for me
21:15.53romainguy_ah I see
21:16.02romainguy_yes it happens if you release the mouse outside of the device
21:16.27romainguy_it's actually difficult to do with a finger
21:16.42tomgibaraI guessed that might be the case
21:18.58tomgibaraMartyn: My understanding is that, assuming you call it on the UI thread, it will cause the CheckBox to be invalidated, which will in-turn post a later call on the UI thread to repaint the view.
21:19.21tomgibarabit garbled - hope it makes sense
21:23.31plusminus_just fugured out where to get a G1 on 22nd :)
21:23.33plusminus_i
21:23.50zhobbsplusminus_: how?
21:25.05plusminus_in a t-mmobile store ?
21:25.11JoeBrainlol
21:25.27plusminus_the closest 10 got none, but in Baltimore they have :)
21:25.59JoeBrainthey're accepting preorders?
21:26.23plusminus_i didn't say that, and I hope no. I've heard of FCFS :)
21:26.28plusminus_so I have to eb early :D
21:26.39zhobbsplusminus_: you just call them, or call corporate?
21:26.54plusminus_went to a local store and they called there
21:27.20JoeBrainyuckkkk so you're going to camp out? :)
21:27.59plusminus_no, but 'll be there about an hour earlier wearing a Android shirt :)
21:28.41plusminus_so everybody knows I'm going to kill for a G1 :P
21:29.11JoeBrainlol
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21:30.28MrSnowflakeIs there a way for a thread to wait for vblank on a Surface(View)?
21:33.37romainguy_MrSnowflake: it's done for you
21:34.24MrSnowflakethrough the lockCanvas and unlockCanvasAndPost ?
21:34.28romainguy_yes
21:34.35MrSnowflakethanks.
21:34.45MrSnowflakeIs there a way to avoid this behaviour?
21:35.15romainguy_you *don't* want vsync?
21:35.51MrSnowflakefor preformance testing. If I have say 100fps left, I still have a lot of power I don't use!
21:36.07romainguy_I don't think we have ways to not do vsync
21:36.23MrSnowflakeok, no biggie. Thanks for the info!
21:37.45MrSnowflakeOh, what's the "average" fps we should aim at? 60, or is it device dependant?
21:38.33romainguy_if you want something that looks smooth, 40+ fps
21:39.24MrSnowflakeI know, but screen wise, what's the refresh rate?
21:39.46romainguy_on G1 I think it's 50 Hz
21:40.06MrSnowflakethanks again
21:57.26jastaromainguy_: i had some complaints that my artist/album view is slow on a real device...
21:57.33jastado you have any recommendations for how to debug/optimize this?
21:57.40romainguy_use traceview :)
21:57.50romainguy_what is this view, a list?
21:57.59jastayeah
21:58.05romainguy_look in the ApiDemos sample
21:58.15romainguy_there's a ListView demo called Efficient Adapter or something like that
21:58.21romainguy_it shows a couple of tricks
21:58.37romainguy_also, where do you get the images from when you bind data to a list item?
21:58.45jastai'm pretty sure i've read that before but i'll take a look
21:58.58jastai use a SimpleCursorAdapter to bind columns which are Uri strings
21:59.06jastathat map to my content provider
21:59.14romainguy_and where does the provider get the images from?
21:59.16jastai'm checking my ContentProvider's code right now to check that openFile() isnt slow somehow
21:59.20jastafrom the sd card
21:59.23romainguy_here you go
21:59.30romainguy_you want to have an in-memory cache
21:59.47romainguy_if you use a Map of SoftReference you can keep about 2 MB of arts in memory
21:59.52romainguy_that's what we do in our Music app
21:59.56jastadoesn't ListView have all that drawing cache stuff for itself?
21:59.58romainguy_that helps a lot
22:00.01romainguy_that's different
22:00.14romainguy_in your case you are reading from the sdcard every time you bind an item
22:00.19jastaok, so would I hold a reference to the Bitmap itself or the ImageView?
22:00.22romainguy_ListView takes over caching after binding
22:00.28romainguy_a reference to the Bitmap
22:00.38romainguy_next, what size in pixels are these bitmaps?
22:00.42jastaok, should be simple to implement
22:00.45romainguy_and at what size do you display them?
22:00.45jasta64x64
22:00.49jastaand 64x64 :)
22:00.55romainguy_good :)
22:01.09romainguy_getting read of sdcard reads will help *a lot*
22:01.17jastain particular, i use width=64px, height=fill_parent, scaleType=center
22:01.25romainguy_perfect
22:01.40romainguy_also, you can use a new API on TextView that lets you bind text with 0 allocation
22:02.59romainguy_it's Cursor.copyStringToBuffer()
22:03.24romainguy_and overall avoid all possible allocations
22:03.31romainguy_cache as much as you can (using the ViewHolder pattern for instance)
22:03.43romainguy_a good list adapter is a no-op adapter ^^
22:03.58jastawhat's the ViewHolder patterN?
22:04.14romainguy_it's explained in the ApiDemo I was referring to
22:04.19jastaok, hang on, ill read it again
22:04.21romainguy_it avoids all the findViewById
22:06.01jastaahh yes, i do remember that
22:06.25jastathanks for the info, i'll get started on a memory cache
22:06.30romainguy_sure
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22:14.46chouman82does sms just not work on the sdk 1.0?
22:15.48chouman82anyone has an idea?
22:17.58jastaromainguy_: so, does SimpleCursorAdapter use a ViewHolder pattern for me?
22:18.14romainguy_nope
22:18.21jastaso i should not use a viewbinder if i want this opt?
22:18.45romainguy_you can use a ViewBinder
22:19.04romainguy_actually ViewBinder is the only way to use the ViewHolder pattern with SimpleCursorAdapter without subclassing SimpleCursorAdapter
22:19.24jastai can't see how.  the view binder is doing the findViewById for me
22:19.45jastait passes the view it finds, based on the id i supplied to the SimpleCursorAdapter constructor
22:19.51romainguy_oh yeah it does
22:19.52romainguy_sorry
22:19.55romainguy_I'm confused :)
22:20.07romainguy_you're screwed then :)
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22:20.30MartynBack
22:20.39MartynI may have missed the reply
22:20.41zhobbsromainguy_: how do I save/restore the scrolled state in a ListView?
22:20.54romainguy_zhobbs: to do what/when?
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22:21.04romainguy_it's supposed to do it for you automatically
22:21.09romainguy_(if the listivew has an id)
22:21.19zhobbsromainguy_: yeah, it doesn't because I'm in an ActivityGroup
22:21.54zhobbsI tried getScrollY() and scrollTo()
22:21.59Martynin CheckedTextView, if you use setChecked(true) ... should the UI show the checkbox as checked as soon as you call setChecked()?
22:21.59zhobbsdidn't seem to work
22:22.08romainguy_then just call onSaveInstanceState()/onRestoreInstanceState()
22:22.34zhobbsAhhh, on the ListView
22:22.34romainguy_ListView does not use scrollY
22:22.45romainguy_Martyn: yes it should
22:22.56zhobbswhat kind of key does a View use in that Bundle?
22:23.08Martynromainguy : In the simulator, it fails to do so.
22:23.08jastaromainguy_: well, really, for a simple view (as i have), the findViewById would be quite fast.
22:23.25romainguy_jasta: yes, but on a fling they add up really quickly
22:23.29chouman82hey guys, any experts on the sms?
22:23.38jastaromainguy_: the ViewBinder *should* implement ViewHolder, don't you think?
22:23.39romainguy_on "simple" items I got up to 5/10 more fps by applying ViewHolder
22:23.47jastai mean, what prevents a general optimization here?
22:23.51romainguy_jasta: time
22:23.57romainguy_as usual
22:24.27jastaoh ok
22:24.36jastawell, then i'm not gonna hassle with it too much at first
22:24.42romainguy_zhobbs: it doesn't use keys
22:24.43jastaand hope that at some point magically ViewBinders get optimized :)
22:24.57jastaor perhaps i will subclass SimpleCursorAdapter with a ViewHeldBinder :)
22:25.03zhobbsromainguy_: really? how can you store data in a Bundle without a key?
22:25.14romainguy_the problem is that because of the way SimpleCursorAdapter works, doing a generic ViewHolder might be almost as bad as the current implementation ^^
22:25.32romainguy_because we would need a map of int->View
22:25.41romainguy_which means autoboxing/unboxing
22:25.44romainguy_which means GCs
22:25.46jastaoh, right, i see what you mean
22:25.48romainguy_which means poor perfs
22:26.01romainguy_there are ways to do it, just not as simple as it may seem at first :(
22:26.04jastathe ViewHolder is really a compile-time map
22:26.15jastahadn't thought about that at first
22:26.17romainguy_zhobbs: it's not a Bundle, it's a Parcelable
22:26.50zhobbsOhh....I see
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22:49.50jastawow
22:49.57jastaromainguy_: that mem cache makes a _big_ difference on perf :)
22:50.11romainguy_:)
22:50.54MrSnowflakeI'm trying findViewById() on a view in a layout xml, which isn't set as contentView, is it normal it returns null?
22:52.53romainguy_MrSnowflake: are you writing findViewById(R.layout.mystuff)?
22:53.36MrSnowflakenopy findViewById(R.id.bla), but the layout didn't seem to work either
22:53.51romainguy_but you never inflated the layout?
22:53.56romainguy_if so, that's normal :)
22:53.57MrSnowflakenow
22:53.58MrSnowflake*no
22:54.02MrSnowflakeah :)
22:54.15romainguy_if the View doesn't exist, you surely can't find it :)
22:54.26MrSnowflakeok. then how should I use a ViewSwitcher? only with programmically made views?
22:54.35romainguy_no
22:54.39romainguy_just inflate the XML file
22:54.43romainguy_either with setContentView()
22:54.46MrSnowflakeok
22:54.47romainguy_or with the LayoutInflater class
22:55.01romainguy_or with View.inflate()
22:55.16MrSnowflakeand then inflate the layout?
22:55.24romainguy_these will inflate the layout
22:55.27romainguy_and give you a View back
22:55.33MrSnowflakeok, thanks
22:55.34romainguy_then you can call inflatedView.findViewByid()
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22:56.45MrSnowflakethanks again.
22:56.54MrSnowflakeanother question, but not for me.
22:57.03MrSnowflakeI've seen this before but can't find it again.
22:57.17MrSnowflakeHow to set in an Activity it should rotate with gravity?
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22:58.05KenBW2any idea whether a more low-cost android phone is on the way?
22:58.47plusminus_http://www.anddev.org/handycalc_031_for_sdk_10_released_free-t3150.html
22:58.54plusminus_I love that calculator :)
22:59.07MrSnowflakethat's awsome news +-
23:01.00chouman82is there something similar to the port directed sms in android?
23:01.25chouman82like using sms to start an app
23:01.26plusminus_KenBW2: Maybe the zzzPhone :/
23:02.00plusminus_data sms currently do not work :( (or do they already ?)
23:02.10plusminus_so its text-parsing :)
23:02.18plusminus_should be pretty simple
23:02.48chouman82how do i simulate an out going sms?
23:03.04plusminus_SMSManager
23:03.09plusminus_search anddev.org for that
23:03.24tomgibaraplusminus_: That is one app, that's definitely going to go onto my phone
23:03.53plusminus_if (sms.getBody().startWith('Intent:')){ startActivity(ACTION_VIEW, sms.getBody().split(":")[1]); }
23:03.57plusminus_tomgibara: full ACK :)
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23:04.21plusminus_I had to ping the author 3 times until he started porting it to 1.0 :-D
23:04.44tomgibaraIf only it wasn't buggy on orientation changes - hopefully that will get fixed
23:04.55plusminus_he seems busy :/
23:05.25plusminus_(he said that)
23:06.27plusminus_tomgibara: mmin18 /at/ gmail \dot\ com
23:06.34plusminus_thats the author
23:06.52tomgibaraplusminus_: Thanks
23:08.19plusminus_np
23:15.54jastaplays with flicking albums now
23:16.02jastadamn, what else can i throw a memcache at ;)
23:17.07romainguy_as long as you use SoftReferences... :)
23:17.14_avatarwhat's a memcache? i assume its in the backscroll I just cleared
23:18.06_avatar(I think I saw discussion about it a little while ago when I wasn't paying attention)
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23:19.09jastaromainguy_: so, is hardware-assisted drawing coming at some point?  i'm wondering because of my reflection effect...
23:19.25jastahardware assisted drawing would presumably make scaling, rotation, and alpha blending _much_ faster, right?
23:19.25romainguy_we still want to do it
23:19.32romainguy_but not roadmap for this yet
23:19.38romainguy_but in your case that doesn't matter
23:19.44jastano?
23:19.55romainguy_because you don't need high perf fps
23:20.01romainguy_and you could easily cache the result in a bitmap
23:21.04jastai plan to at some point
23:21.15jastabut the reason i don't now, actually, is because i'm still revising the look of that screen
23:21.35jastaand if i made a cache system everytime i want to tweak it i'd have to clear and rebuild it
23:21.53jasta(the cache system would do this at the time the album artwork comes in from the server, not on demand)
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23:33.07_avatarjust read the logs, i thought you guys were referring to some memory cache object or mechanism. nevermind, stupid question.
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23:34.49MartynWould someone mind testing the current emulator to see if setChekced(true) is doing the right thing in a CheckedTextView?
23:35.15MartynI just -can't- get it to set the checkbox on .. and I'd like to have a preset default checked in the interface...
23:35.40MartynChecking the value to console, I can clearly see isChecked is true.
23:36.00MartynBut the UI doesn't reflect it ... neither does it work when loaded on the hardware.
23:37.07romainguy_did you set the check mark drawable?
23:37.25plusminus_romainguy do you have an idea, what could be wrong with my SDK/ADT/eclipse setup when the only way to get gps-info is via  telnet  and 'geo fix lat lon' ?
23:37.49plusminus_(so its not working via DDMS :( )
23:38.07plusminus_(completely !)
23:38.07tomgibaraMartyn: Best to check the basic things... are you sure you're looking at the checkbox you're calling the method on?
23:38.07romainguy_no idea, I never used the GPS stuff
23:38.12plusminus_kk
23:38.24romainguy_Martyn: the CheckedTextView works fine for me
23:38.38Martyntomgibara : Yes, definitely.
23:38.56Martynroamain : Good, that means it's an issue with my build, and not with the emulator.  Thanks.
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23:39.30plusminus_romainguy did you do that photo? ( http://www.flickr.com/photos/romainguy/2936662469/sizes/l/ )
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23:39.33plusminus_I damn love it !!!
23:39.38romainguy_plusminus_: I did
23:40.26plusminus_its awesome !
23:40.55romainguy_glad you like it :)_)
23:41.23_avatardid you use an orange/warm filter for that?
23:42.03plusminus_I like all your photos. i hope this one is not to dark as a G1-wallpaper ;)
23:42.19romainguy__avatar: I didn't use any filter on this one I think
23:42.24romainguy_plusminus_: lol
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23:45.22MartynIf it is, you can pre-process it in Gimp to the right gamma
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23:50.37gdsxromainguy: that's pretty sweet

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