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| 02:44.06 | jasta | is there some convenience in Android to do something like pause playback when a call comes in? |
| 02:44.17 | jasta | any kind of generic "PLEASE_SHUT_UP" intent? :) |
| 03:01.05 | Kontuus | yes |
| 03:02.02 | unix_remote | heh. |
| 03:02.48 | Kontuus | I'm trying to find it.. |
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| 03:03.27 | wastrel | hi |
| 03:03.42 | Kontuus | http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/content/BroadcastReceiver.html |
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| 03:12.23 | muthu_ | kill switch is so NOT google |
| 03:12.39 | yakischloba | haha |
| 03:13.01 | yakischloba | I didn't notice - does that only apply to apps distributed through the app store, or everything? |
| 03:13.12 | muthu_ | it applies to any apps on the device |
| 03:13.41 | yakischloba | so I take it the apps I have on the device, loaded through app store or otherwise, are reported in huh |
| 03:14.02 | muthu_ | yes |
| 03:14.12 | romainguy | muthu_: the kill switch is here for the user's protection |
| 03:14.18 | yakischloba | weak! i'll abandon for openmoko! |
| 03:14.21 | yakischloba | thats what they all say! |
| 03:14.46 | muthu_ | romainguy: i know, but it doesn't feel right |
| 03:14.54 | romainguy | ok |
| 03:15.06 | romainguy | let's say there's an app that steals or destroys your data behind your back |
| 03:15.19 | romainguy | and it spread on many devices |
| 03:15.43 | muthu_ | you should give that power to the user |
| 03:15.50 | romainguy | the user can also do that |
| 03:15.50 | muthu_ | to remove/uninstall/delete etc., |
| 03:15.57 | xavd | muthu_: where did you see it applies to any app, no matter how they were installed? |
| 03:15.59 | romainguy | but if the app does it in the background without you knowing it |
| 03:16.10 | yakischloba | romainguy: Are there any specific criteria that must be met to use this functionality, or is it up to some overlord to decide? |
| 03:16.35 | muthu_ | xavd: read in computerworld |
| 03:16.37 | romainguy | yakischloba: I have no idea |
| 03:16.55 | yakischloba | hmm |
| 03:16.59 | xavd | muthu_: was it an official google quote? |
| 03:17.04 | dmoffett | At least Google told us about it unlike Apple who had the same functionality and failed to mention it. |
| 03:17.06 | romainguy | if you're not happy with it, don't use Market :) |
| 03:17.21 | unix_remote | romainguy: so it doesnt apply to apps not installed using market? |
| 03:17.26 | romainguy | I don't know |
| 03:17.34 | jasta | it probably does, actually, they are all signed :P |
| 03:17.39 | muthu_ | android should be about mobile o/s |
| 03:17.41 | muthu_ | nothing more |
| 03:17.42 | romainguy | xavd would know |
| 03:18.20 | unix_remote | meh, i buy the argument that it's just an extension of the "do no evil" mantra, but it has to have a certain degree of reciprocity. |
| 03:18.38 | muthu_ | if its only the market app that has the kill switch |
| 03:18.42 | romainguy | you guys are totally paranoid |
| 03:19.02 | yakischloba | romainguy: most of us are just asking questions |
| 03:19.08 | unix_remote | romainguy: i'm more paranoid about shelling out a couple hundered bucks on a device when a new one is imminent :-P |
| 03:19.18 | unix_remote | *gives evil eye* |
| 03:19.35 | unix_remote | ;-) |
| 03:19.37 | romainguy | yakischloba: I just explained why there's a kill switch, if you don't like it... well that's your choice :) |
| 03:19.39 | muthu_ | none of the reviews mentioned about accelerometer |
| 03:19.46 | muthu_ | is it on G1? |
| 03:19.49 | romainguy | yes |
| 03:20.00 | romainguy | unix_remote: ask the phone manufacturers, not us |
| 03:20.01 | muthu_ | ok, not sure why the reviews missed them |
| 03:20.05 | yakischloba | romainguy: I could care less, because I expect and accept all of these compromises that come with a business backing a project |
| 03:20.33 | unix_remote | romainguy: ;-) |
| 03:20.46 | unix_remote | yakischloba: businesses* |
| 03:21.02 | yakischloba | I put my fate at the mercy of those who provide services to me every day, this won't be any different |
| 03:21.34 | muthu_ | is the market open? |
| 03:22.44 | muthu_ | android topic: |
| 03:22.57 | muthu_ | how does the activity to activity messaging happen? |
| 03:23.11 | muthu_ | do events get passed between activities? |
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| 03:28.38 | jasta | muthu_: all messaging is through the binder, how do you not know this by now? hehe |
| 03:28.56 | jasta | its a very specialized system for IPC |
| 03:29.20 | muthu_ | apart from IPC.. |
| 03:33.02 | yakischloba | dude like |
| 03:33.13 | yakischloba | what if you got on the bus and it took you somewhere you didn't want to go |
| 03:33.14 | yakischloba | or crashed |
| 03:37.20 | muthu_ | howdy jasta? |
| 03:37.25 | muthu_ | excited for G1? |
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| 03:39.47 | plusminus_ | muthu_: he gets tired thinking of the G1 |
| 03:39.49 | plusminus_ | sooo boring |
| 03:39.53 | plusminus_ | ;) |
| 03:39.56 | muthu_ | :) |
| 03:40.20 | muthu_ | jasta is the android stock index ;) |
| 03:40.25 | plusminus_ | maybe I can find a G1 in the streets of NY :) |
| 03:40.28 | plusminus_ | this weekend |
| 03:40.33 | muthu_ | cool |
| 03:40.53 | muthu_ | am resgined to the fact, that it'll be a couple more months before i can grab one |
| 03:41.16 | plusminus_ | what about ebay? |
| 03:41.25 | muthu_ | yeah, will try ebay.in |
| 03:41.30 | muthu_ | if available, gr8 |
| 03:41.46 | muthu_ | htc is launching in dec for sure |
| 03:41.51 | plusminus_ | maybe someone can get it here and ship it to you |
| 03:41.59 | muthu_ | yep |
| 03:42.08 | plusminus_ | would cost some extra bucks :( |
| 03:42.22 | muthu_ | after 22 anything is possible ;) |
| 03:42.36 | plusminus_ | ;) |
| 03:42.52 | plusminus_ | I'll be ill on 22nd :D |
| 03:42.57 | muthu_ | hehe |
| 03:43.02 | plusminus_ | i just can feel it :P |
| 03:43.13 | muthu_ | just work your free apps now |
| 03:43.22 | muthu_ | am sure market will open up quickly for paid apps |
| 03:43.31 | muthu_ | then you make all your dollahs :) |
| 03:43.35 | plusminus_ | hehe |
| 03:43.44 | plusminus_ | preparing a demo for AndSudoku... |
| 03:43.50 | muthu_ | great |
| 03:44.50 | muthu_ | http://googleappengine.blogspot.com/2008/10/announcing-https-support-for-appspotcom.html |
| 03:44.58 | muthu_ | wasn't this available for a long time? |
| 03:48.05 | plusminus_ | anyone knows if uninstalling an applicaton can be prevented (by a password or sth). Think of parental control apps. |
| 03:48.46 | muthu_ | you can't do that as of now |
| 03:52.59 | jasta | to make a parental controlled android phone you'd really want to reflash the whole thing |
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| 04:01.32 | After_Math-747 | Woohooo |
| 04:01.42 | After_Math-747 | I cant wait to use android |
| 04:03.21 | After_Math-747 | how is the room tonight? |
| 04:03.42 | yakischloba | stuffy |
| 04:03.47 | yakischloba | crack the window please |
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| 04:26.35 | muthu_ | ada da ada da ada da.. |
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| 04:47.36 | unix_remote | heh, it's so much fun to see how the UI design has evolved in the last 6 months. |
| 04:47.45 | unix_remote | is perusing through the GoogleDevelopers videos. |
| 04:50.24 | unix_remote | which I really dont think media coverage has reflected. I think the more appropriate term would be "nascent" rather than rusty, cartoonish, etc. |
| 04:50.45 | muthu_ | the current UI is nice |
| 04:51.37 | muthu_ | but need to really feel the G1 to find out ;) |
| 05:02.20 | unix_remote | muthu_: it feels fine and it's only going to get better, I wouldnt worry too much about that. |
| 05:03.18 | unix_remote | there are other variables to concern ourselves with as it becomes fo' realz. |
| 05:05.31 | languish | if anyone's looking for a cheap 4gb microsd, woot.com's selling them right now for $5.99 each, plus $5 ship, limit 3. so $23 for 3 total shipped |
| 05:06.03 | languish | if you don't know about woot.com they sell 1 type of item a day until it sells out, then a new item the next day |
| 05:06.36 | muthu_ | woot.. nice |
| 05:06.39 | languish | just figured someone might want some extra micrsd's to mess with |
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| 05:08.56 | Adamant | are there any 16GB cards out? |
| 05:09.05 | Adamant | I'm assuming they're an arm and a leg |
| 05:12.13 | languish | Adamant, in australia they've been out for a bit |
| 05:12.19 | languish | prolly where they're test marketing |
| 05:15.13 | languish | Adamant http://www.provantage.com/sandisk-sdsdq-016g-a11m~7SNDK2P3.htm |
| 05:15.19 | DarkriftX | languish, i used a few more of your ideas |
| 05:15.23 | languish | but i don't exactly trust provantage |
| 05:15.37 | languish | DarkriftX, cool man. I hope they work for you |
| 05:15.38 | DarkriftX | made the nav menu at top bolder and 12pt instead of 11pt |
| 05:15.49 | languish | that wasn't my idea :? |
| 05:16.03 | DarkriftX | you said it was small and hard to read |
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| 05:16.11 | DarkriftX | and that you didnt notice it because the text was small |
| 05:16.29 | languish | no, i said that it scrolls off the top of the main page and you don't see it, because of the large title image |
| 05:16.35 | DarkriftX | ahh, i c |
| 05:16.50 | languish | you scroll down the page to read the content |
| 05:16.52 | DarkriftX | so you think switching the top nav with the breadcrumbs would fix that? |
| 05:16.54 | languish | and lose the menu at the top |
| 05:17.33 | languish | *just* for the title page, duplicate the menu where it says "home" in the bar under the title image |
| 05:17.43 | languish | the rest of the site the navigation was fine |
| 05:17.55 | DarkriftX | i c |
| 05:18.41 | languish | or figure something else out :) |
| 05:19.15 | languish | i'm a bit inebriated and hung over at the sime time atm |
| 05:19.19 | DarkriftX | lol |
| 05:19.35 | languish | drink drink water |
| 05:19.39 | DarkriftX | im going to spend a couple hours fixing the descriptions for some of my downloads |
| 05:19.46 | languish | nod |
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| 05:23.14 | DarkriftX | its hard to find developer sites for some of this stuff |
| 05:23.22 | DarkriftX | or even decent descriptions |
| 05:25.32 | languish | DarkriftX, many of them are just on google's code site |
| 05:25.41 | DarkriftX | nice |
| 05:25.54 | languish | but yeah, a lot of android devs have been lax in putting up pages |
| 05:25.58 | DarkriftX | im editing my download module to have an authors homepage field built in |
| 05:26.10 | DarkriftX | see, thats why i want them to sign up for my site |
| 05:26.13 | DarkriftX | i could be their page :) |
| 05:26.18 | languish | :) |
| 05:26.19 | DarkriftX | htey could each get their own little mini forum |
| 05:26.27 | DarkriftX | without having to pay hosting :) |
| 05:26.27 | languish | it's not a bad idea, just.. so many want to do iyt |
| 05:26.30 | languish | *it |
| 05:26.37 | DarkriftX | not many are trying very hard though |
| 05:26.41 | languish | nod |
| 05:26.45 | DarkriftX | most ppl have 10-20 downloads, i have almost 60 |
| 05:26.53 | unix_remote | are there higher quality versions of some of the videos from the google code page for android? |
| 05:27.13 | taaz | DarkriftX: what's your site? |
| 05:27.25 | DarkriftX | android-dls.com |
| 05:27.33 | DarkriftX | its new |
| 05:27.46 | DarkriftX | still in the works, so descriptions and other stuff is kinda bare |
| 05:28.02 | DarkriftX | im working on getting the developers more credit for each download now |
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| 05:31.22 | taaz | wonders why so many androids sites are not optimized for android browser |
| 05:33.13 | gambler | because they are SEO noise |
| 05:35.06 | languish | cuz android broser give teh full intarweb experience |
| 05:35.09 | languish | minus flash :/ |
| 05:35.14 | DarkriftX | i was thinking that |
| 05:35.15 | languish | and some other unimportant shit |
| 05:35.28 | DarkriftX | from what i can see, its like a normal browsing experience |
| 05:35.38 | DarkriftX | my site displayed pretty nice in the g1 emu skin |
| 05:35.39 | languish | lies and innuendo |
| 05:41.28 | taaz | seriously? you think a 3 column page looks good on a screen that can only display 1? |
| 05:42.09 | taaz | the only reason most sites are viewable on mobile browsers is that the browser is smart enough to constrain the paragraph width to the screen size |
| 05:42.43 | taaz | notice if you zoom out there is a big empty column |
| 05:43.23 | taaz | maybe it's just a matter of adding some mobile stylesheets to the cms system... |
| 05:47.39 | DarkriftX | also keep in mind, my site is very beta right now |
| 05:47.49 | DarkriftX | im sure ill make a mobile. subdomain soon with completely different css |
| 05:52.55 | languish | yeah, DarkriftX doesn't get the point of a staging site prior to going live |
| 05:52.56 | languish | lol |
| 05:53.10 | languish | but at least he's getting community feedback and working with it |
| 05:53.32 | DarkriftX | closed betas suck~! |
| 05:53.36 | languish | lol |
| 05:54.05 | languish | anyone know where the g1's are shipping from? are they actually shipping outta cali? |
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| 06:34.01 | languish | DarkriftX |
| 06:34.06 | DarkriftX | sup |
| 06:34.09 | languish | http://androidcommunity.com/forums/f23/freeware-android-apps-site-2715/ |
| 06:34.12 | languish | go read |
| 06:35.08 | DarkriftX | lol, nice |
| 06:36.02 | languish | yeah, I don't like the android-freeware.org site |
| 06:36.14 | languish | bastard barely has it up, and has money ads all over it |
| 06:36.36 | languish | he's just lookin to cash in |
| 06:36.40 | languish | which is fine |
| 06:36.43 | languish | but geeze |
| 06:39.07 | DarkriftX | rich off ads? |
| 06:39.27 | DarkriftX | i couldnt imagine making more then $5/mo on adsense ($4/mo less then my hosting is) |
| 06:39.50 | languish | well, his site does come up will in google searches for freeware android apps |
| 06:39.54 | languish | will/well |
| 06:40.04 | languish | so i can see how he'd make some coin |
| 06:40.19 | languish | off topic.. http://health.yahoo.com/news/reuters/us_phones_rash.html |
| 06:40.20 | DarkriftX | hrmmmmm |
| 06:40.26 | DarkriftX | i wonder... |
| 06:40.41 | languish | I think if people cleaned their damn phones... they might not be getting rashes :| |
| 06:41.01 | languish | or the idiots that press the phone to their faces so hard for so long |
| 06:41.32 | languish | though, it's sort of amusing to see people walking past with imprints of a phone pad on their cheek |
| 06:42.09 | DarkriftX | LOL |
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| 06:42.28 | DarkriftX | i once put nail polish on someones red nokia phone and called them |
| 06:42.38 | DarkriftX | i cried... |
| 06:42.45 | DarkriftX | it hurt to laugh after the first few minutes |
| 06:43.26 | languish | :\ |
| 06:43.43 | languish | sup yaki |
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| 06:53.15 | rjaym | is it true the g1 will only handle headset bluetooth functionality?, like you can't hook up a frogpad to it? |
| 06:54.50 | languish | currently when it's first released that seems to be true |
| 06:55.01 | languish | mroe functionality is likely to come with updates |
| 06:55.03 | languish | *more |
| 06:55.17 | rjaym | hm :/ doesn't sound promising :/ |
| 06:55.23 | languish | it's very promising |
| 06:55.45 | languish | we'll get the majority of the functionality we want |
| 06:55.55 | languish | this is just a 1,0 device |
| 06:55.59 | languish | 1.0 |
| 06:56.31 | languish | they will be releasing fimrware updates for it, with additional features, functions and improvements |
| 06:56.34 | rjaym | how about a NES emulator |
| 06:56.50 | languish | pretty sure that'll happen eventually |
| 06:57.06 | languish | gotta give the devs time to work |
| 06:57.16 | languish | even the dev kit will be updated |
| 06:57.24 | languish | and give the devs more tools to work with |
| 06:58.37 | rjaym | I was sort of confused with a recent explanation of how the g1 will load independently developed apps, if not through the android marketplace |
| 06:59.17 | rjaym | can I just throw an installation package on an SDHC chip, and just run it? or does it need to go through the market? |
| 06:59.28 | languish | yeah, i'm not clear 100% on that either, but apperently you can load android apps that you download, not just from the marketplace |
| 06:59.44 | languish | it doesn't need to go through the market |
| 06:59.59 | rjaym | nodnod |
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| 07:06.21 | DarkriftX | finding the developers for all these apps wont be easy :S |
| 07:06.29 | DarkriftX | ive done 6 lol |
| 07:06.35 | languish | heh |
| 07:07.26 | languish | when the apps store is open, it'll be easier |
| 07:07.34 | languish | err |
| 07:07.39 | languish | android market :| |
| 07:09.36 | DarkriftX | lol |
| 07:10.11 | DarkriftX | id love to get a developers release setup in the forums where developers each get their own mini forum to their own apps |
| 07:11.36 | jt436 | you will have a lot of forums ;) |
| 07:11.54 | DarkriftX | wouldnt be bad |
| 07:12.02 | languish | DarkriftX http://freshmeat.net/search/?q=android§ion=projects |
| 07:12.07 | languish | :| |
| 07:12.21 | DarkriftX | a category where each developer gets his own forum and gets moderator in that forum and can control it as they wish |
| 07:13.07 | jt436 | as long as you have it an automated creation method, otherwise you'll spend everyday creating new forums |
| 07:13.24 | DarkriftX | nah, devs would have to have a few releases already and would have to apply for it |
| 07:13.31 | DarkriftX | not just anyone who writes a script would get a forum |
| 07:13.41 | jt436 | fair enough |
| 07:13.50 | DarkriftX | like for example, the allbinary apps, there are a couple, that person would be a good choice |
| 07:17.11 | muthu_ | hierarchyviewer ROCKS |
| 07:18.31 | romainguy | muthu_: if only I had time to finish it :) |
| 07:18.48 | muthu_ | do it pls, greatly helpful |
| 07:19.15 | romainguy | unfortunately it's not my priority |
| 07:19.22 | romainguy | and there's another tool I'd like to write first |
| 07:19.26 | muthu_ | ooh |
| 07:19.28 | muthu_ | what's that? |
| 07:19.37 | languish | prongrabber |
| 07:19.39 | languish | :) |
| 07:19.44 | muthu_ | oooh |
| 07:19.47 | muthu_ | nice |
| 07:19.51 | languish | lulz |
| 07:20.30 | romainguy | muthu_: I want to write a layout analyzer that would tell you how to change your XML files to make the layout use less views and be more efficient |
| 07:20.44 | muthu_ | wonderful |
| 07:20.48 | muthu_ | been thinking about that |
| 07:21.08 | muthu_ | but in general, we just make it work |
| 07:21.30 | muthu_ | am sure, i'm using tons of layout |
| 07:21.41 | muthu_ | not efficient at all |
| 07:24.02 | muthu_ | expandable list is buggy |
| 07:24.13 | muthu_ | its returning child view, for a parent view |
| 07:24.18 | romainguy | uh? |
| 07:24.24 | muthu_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:24.25 | muthu_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:24.25 | muthu_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:24.41 | muthu_ | overrides onChildClick |
| 07:24.52 | muthu_ | 'i' is the group index |
| 07:25.05 | romainguy | did you convert it though? |
| 07:25.08 | muthu_ | the cast fails, coz it returns a linearlayout which is achild view |
| 07:25.13 | romainguy | the index has to be converted to a flat index |
| 07:25.21 | muthu_ | ha |
| 07:25.21 | romainguy | ExpandableListView definitely works the way it should |
| 07:25.29 | muthu_ | ok |
| 07:25.49 | muthu_ | that's when i fired up hierarchyviewer and checked the layouts |
| 07:25.57 | muthu_ | brought back my sanity a bit ;) |
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| 07:40.14 | DarkriftX | languish, you around? opinions needed :) |
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| 08:07.06 | umdk1d3 | wakes up |
| 08:17.05 | DarkriftX | wb umdk1d3 |
| 08:17.17 | DarkriftX | hey, which apps are yours and whats a link to your site? |
| 08:17.40 | DarkriftX | tryign to add author links on all files |
| 08:33.51 | muthu_ | yo umdk1d3 |
| 08:40.40 | languish | DarkriftX, hrm? |
| 08:41.21 | DarkriftX | lol, your link is getting lots of attention |
| 08:41.55 | DarkriftX | and i was looking for your input: http://android-dls.com/forum/index.php?f=16&rb_v=viewforum |
| 08:44.32 | languish | change the title of the post |
| 08:45.05 | DarkriftX | suggestion? |
| 08:45.05 | languish | "Developers, do you want your own forum for your app here?" |
| 08:45.08 | DarkriftX | ahh |
| 08:45.33 | languish | something like that |
| 08:45.38 | languish | my brain is shutting down |
| 08:47.29 | languish | DarkriftX, you really need to work on those run on sentence. |
| 08:47.38 | languish | in your blogishes |
| 08:47.42 | DarkriftX | lol |
| 08:47.52 | DarkriftX | thats my problem, i type how i talk |
| 08:47.54 | languish | *sentences |
| 08:48.00 | DarkriftX | and i can spit a lot in one sentance lol |
| 08:48.01 | languish | most people do |
| 08:48.06 | languish | :) |
| 08:48.13 | DarkriftX | ppl look at me like "breath!" |
| 08:48.26 | tomgibara | Can anyone confirm why getWallpaper() is on Context? |
| 08:48.28 | tomgibara | Is it because applications are anticipated to theme themselves with it? |
| 08:48.30 | languish | type it all up, then revise it into shorter chunks |
| 08:49.12 | DarkriftX | thx for that link btw, im getting tons of visits from it :) |
| 08:49.25 | DarkriftX | 50 since midnight (almsot 2 hours ago) |
| 08:49.46 | languish | heh |
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| 09:37.52 | tomgibara | The theming that can be applied prior to launching an activity has some severe shortcomings :( |
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| 09:38.33 | romainguy | tomgibara: ?? |
| 09:40.15 | tomgibara | First a prelim. question: are applications anticipated to use Context.getWallpaper() for matching the user's graphical preferences? |
| 09:40.50 | romainguy | er |
| 09:40.55 | romainguy | depends if you want to show the wallpaper? |
| 09:42.31 | tomgibara | Well, I'm writing an app that I wanted to be "super-lite" and useful (an exercise for myself in keeping things small and simple), and I thought that one way of making feel 'light' was to use the user's preferred background. |
| 09:42.38 | tomgibara | Is this not sensible? |
| 09:43.03 | romainguy | I don't see how it gives the feeling of lightness but sure :) |
| 09:43.11 | romainguy | note that doing so has a drawback though |
| 09:43.21 | romainguy | loading the wallpaper takes time |
| 09:43.29 | romainguy | it's actually where Home spends most of its startup time |
| 09:43.42 | tomgibara | Ah, I wondered where the delay was coming from |
| 09:43.58 | romainguy | yeah, it's a big bitmap :) |
| 09:44.39 | tomgibara | Okay, well assuming this is a valid idea - there appears to be no way of sensibly using android:windowBackground if you do this |
| 09:44.49 | romainguy | actually |
| 09:45.02 | romainguy | there is an attribute to tell the system you want to use the wallpaper as you window's background |
| 09:45.14 | tomgibara | damn, I missed that |
| 09:45.38 | romainguy | now there's a huge drawback to this |
| 09:45.45 | tomgibara | which is :) |
| 09:45.53 | romainguy | this feature was implemented at a time where wallpapers were the size of the screen |
| 09:45.55 | romainguy | they are now large |
| 09:45.57 | romainguy | larger |
| 09:46.08 | romainguy | which means the wallpaper will be shrunk to fit the screen |
| 09:46.19 | romainguy | I have yet to add an option to fix that |
| 09:46.28 | romainguy | this opens a whole new can of worms though |
| 09:46.33 | tomgibara | yuk :( Not really usable then |
| 09:46.40 | romainguy | and slow to draw |
| 09:46.50 | romainguy | because you probably want the wallpaper to be translated just like on the Home screen |
| 09:46.58 | romainguy | which means Home needs to report the current visible part |
| 09:47.03 | romainguy | which increases complexity |
| 09:47.10 | romainguy | and makes Home replacements harder to write |
| 09:47.11 | tomgibara | (what would be useful is if the context also exposed a 'preferred transform' for the wallpaper |
| 09:47.37 | romainguy | so I'm not convinced about what to do yet :) |
| 09:47.54 | tomgibara | yeah, I can see it's complicated |
| 09:48.14 | romainguy | anyway |
| 09:48.45 | tomgibara | Okay, so as I read the situation, there's no solution to my problem (yet) |
| 09:49.20 | romainguy | well there is |
| 09:49.23 | umdk1d3 | well cant you use the dialog theme for your activity, similar to the voice dialer app? |
| 09:49.23 | romainguy | don't use the wallpaper |
| 09:49.24 | romainguy | or |
| 09:49.31 | romainguy | set your window background to be totally transparent |
| 09:49.35 | umdk1d3 | that keeps it lightweight showing through to the desktop behind |
| 09:49.41 | romainguy | and then set the wallpaper yourself |
| 09:50.40 | tomgibara | I'd considered that and rejected it for some reason that's lost on me now - probably stupidity - I'lll give that a shit |
| 09:50.44 | tomgibara | *shot! |
| 09:50.49 | umdk1d3 | here we go tomgibara: http://jkontherun.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/10/15/g1voicedial.jpg |
| 09:50.51 | DarkriftX | lol |
| 09:51.22 | muthu_ | hey nice |
| 09:51.28 | muthu_ | transparent background |
| 09:51.34 | tomgibara | The second gripe I have is that the android:windowTitleStyle attribute ignores gravity |
| 09:51.39 | romainguy | yeah but it also look like a dialog and not a raly app |
| 09:52.01 | romainguy | -raly+real |
| 09:52.22 | tomgibara | umdk1d3: Thanks for that, but I need it more app like |
| 09:52.34 | muthu_ | the dialog theme looks cool |
| 09:52.50 | umdk1d3 | yea, it all depends on what your going for |
| 09:52.55 | tomgibara | That dialog does look very nice |
| 09:53.44 | muthu_ | changes everything to dialog now |
| 09:54.31 | tomgibara | romainguy: I remember now, I set the window background to @color/transparent (#00000000) and it simply displayed a black background during the transition - did I do something wrong? |
| 09:54.43 | umdk1d3 | muthu_: it has its place, so dont go overboard with it |
| 09:54.56 | muthu_ | why? dialog looks nice |
| 09:55.06 | muthu_ | better than the opaque stuff |
| 09:55.10 | romainguy | muthu_: but they look like *dialogs* not applications |
| 09:55.19 | romainguy | and they make the screen look cluttered |
| 09:55.23 | muthu_ | yeah, that gives a lightweight feel |
| 09:55.24 | umdk1d3 | muthu_: regardless, you should fit into the UI pattern of other apps on the device |
| 09:55.28 | romainguy | they are useful but as umdk1d3 said, don't overuse them |
| 09:55.33 | umdk1d3 | so that people arent confused when they use your app |
| 09:55.33 | romainguy | no, it doesn't give a lightweight feeling |
| 09:55.40 | romainguy | it gives a false impression about your app |
| 09:55.47 | muthu_ | hmm |
| 09:55.54 | muthu_ | changes everything to default again |
| 09:56.07 | romainguy | tomgibara: ah I remember running into this too, you need to use the Theme.Transparent or something like that |
| 09:56.28 | tomgibara | muthu_: For what it's worth, this is what the app currently looks like: http://www.tomgibara.com/android/pinpoint/ |
| 09:56.54 | tomgibara | romainguy: Thanks for that tip - then the documentation is misleading since it implies that's set for you |
| 09:57.26 | DarkriftX | wow, great idea |
| 09:57.30 | tomgibara | romainguy: Any suggestion for the title gravity? Or is that something that's off limits? |
| 09:57.34 | muthu_ | tomgibara: looks nice |
| 09:57.52 | romainguy | tomgibara: I don't remember what the style applies to |
| 09:58.00 | romainguy | it could just be because the TextView is wrap_content |
| 09:58.08 | romainguy | try using a layout_gravity instead |
| 09:58.08 | DarkriftX | do you mind if i put it on my android downloads site tomgibara ? |
| 09:58.17 | tomgibara | muthu_: I think it needs a bit of work :) That text box is not the best design. |
| 09:58.19 | DarkriftX | ill put a link back to your site |
| 09:58.53 | muthu_ | tomgibara: like your new simplistic approach |
| 09:59.01 | muthu_ | smaller, simple apps |
| 09:59.15 | tomgibara | DrakriftX: If that site is targetted at phone users, then no, please don't, since it isn't a tested or supported app (yet) |
| 09:59.42 | tomgibara | romainguy: Thanks a lot for your insights (as ever) |
| 09:59.50 | romainguy | no pb |
| 09:59.54 | romainguy | sorry for these issues :) |
| 10:00.03 | DarkriftX | its android in general and lots of apps are beta, but ill check back in a week or so to see how its coming |
| 10:00.26 | DarkriftX | great idea for an app.... |
| 10:00.44 | tomgibara | romainguy: polishing takes a lot of effort and a long time :) |
| 10:00.52 | romainguy | yeah, that it does |
| 10:02.14 | tomgibara | DarkriftX: I tried to think of the smallest, simplest application that would be useful to me, and that's what I came up with - I'm quite absent minded and likely to misplace my G1 (when I have one) |
| 10:02.53 | DarkriftX | what about adding a way to email it and get location? incase you cannot find someone with text messaging around |
| 10:03.19 | DarkriftX | thats gonna be great when i get a g1 |
| 10:03.30 | DarkriftX | ill let the wife barrow it sometimes and spook her later telling her where she was |
| 10:03.36 | DarkriftX | borrow* |
| 10:04.10 | tomgibara | The application used to be much bigger and had those functions and I basically stripped everything out, including that :) |
| 10:04.16 | DarkriftX | i c |
| 10:04.59 | tomgibara | I may add features back in, but unless I keep it very small initially, I won't have time to give it the attention it needs to make it suitable for mass distribution. |
| 10:05.19 | DarkriftX | true |
| 10:05.46 | DarkriftX | question, if you text message it with your pin, does the person with the phone see the pin? |
| 10:05.47 | tomgibara | Also, as designed, it doesn't do anything in the background - it's entirely passive until an SMS comes in |
| 10:05.56 | DarkriftX | or does the app intercept and remove/hide it |
| 10:06.03 | tomgibara | yes, they see the pin |
| 10:06.10 | muthu_ | tomgibara: looks like a killer app to me |
| 10:06.12 | muthu_ | very useful |
| 10:06.16 | DarkriftX | hell yeah |
| 10:06.29 | tomgibara | The SMS is treated just as any other SMS. |
| 10:07.15 | tomgibara | The person sending the SMS can send you a message _and_ include the "locate pin" anywhere inside the message |
| 10:07.28 | DarkriftX | oh, nice |
| 10:08.25 | DarkriftX | do they need to be together? eg: hey, where are you, ive been trying to locate you all day, im at <pin> n 3rd street, come pick me up |
| 10:08.52 | tomgibara | yes, they need to be adjacent |
| 10:09.00 | tomgibara | but the number spaces between can vary |
| 10:10.11 | tomgibara | in principle it will respond to the word for "locate" in the phone user's locale's language - but I haven't got any language in there other than English. |
| 10:10.29 | DarkriftX | nice |
| 10:10.55 | DarkriftX | ill keep checking your site for when its completed so i can add it to my site |
| 10:11.10 | DarkriftX | trying to create the most complete android downloads site i can |
| 10:11.34 | tomgibara | DarkriftX: Well, I haven't decided anything about distribution yet. |
| 10:11.37 | tomgibara | For example: |
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| 10:12.07 | praveend | hi |
| 10:12.16 | tomgibara | It uses Intents for receiving SMS messages that were removed from the 1.0 SDK but still work |
| 10:13.01 | DarkriftX | i c |
| 10:13.01 | praveend | any one working on porting android to samsung processors |
| 10:13.12 | tomgibara | Until I have a hint from Google that they intend to support that functionality in the future (whether it's the same API or not), I'm unlikely to release it. |
| 10:16.01 | tomgibara | Also, I might try selling the app - I just haven't decided :) |
| 10:17.09 | tomgibara | muthu_: how is mobeegal progressing? |
| 10:17.25 | muthu_ | still early stages |
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| 10:17.33 | muthu_ | but planning to put something on 22 |
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| 10:17.45 | muthu_ | mobeegal is huge.. takes a long time |
| 10:17.55 | muthu_ | so approaching step by step |
| 10:18.02 | muthu_ | me and tu are working on it |
| 10:18.29 | muthu_ | right now we are focusing on search |
| 10:18.32 | tomgibara | I'm in a similar position with moseycode big -> slow |
| 10:18.41 | muthu_ | exactly |
| 10:18.50 | tomgibara | That's why I wanted something at the other end of the spectrum :) |
| 10:19.10 | muthu_ | yeah, either one of the approaches would be fine |
| 10:19.29 | muthu_ | i'm taking the bigger vision path |
| 10:19.59 | muthu_ | honestly it'll take atleast a year to figure it out |
| 10:20.24 | tomgibara | so the 22nd you mentioned above is 22/10/2009? |
| 10:20.25 | muthu_ | tomgibara: what's up for adc2? |
| 10:20.26 | tomgibara | :) |
| 10:20.39 | muthu_ | yep :)) |
| 10:20.48 | tomgibara | muthu_: You mean me personally for the adc2? |
| 10:20.59 | muthu_ | yeah, planning something for adc2? |
| 10:21.28 | muthu_ | 250k on the line ;) |
| 10:21.32 | tomgibara | Not until I see the terms, but I doubt if it could be anything other than moseycode, it's all I'd have time for! |
| 10:21.53 | muthu_ | am sure, adc2 will require apps not in market or published |
| 10:21.54 | tomgibara | It might be 100,000 $50 prizes, who knows? |
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| 10:22.10 | muthu_ | the terms would be similar |
| 10:22.23 | tomgibara | I don't see a basis for that |
| 10:22.33 | muthu_ | since goog will be comfortable handling the same pattern now |
| 10:23.11 | tomgibara | Anyway, I'm constantly working on different angles on moseycode - I came up with this at the weekend: http://www.tomgibara.com/computer-vision/rotary.pdf |
| 10:23.22 | tomgibara | (don't really expect you to read that) |
| 10:23.26 | muthu_ | haha |
| 10:23.31 | muthu_ | will take a look when free |
| 10:23.45 | tomgibara | I'm planning on combining it with OCR |
| 10:23.59 | tomgibara | muthu_: I wouldn't bother, just look at the pictures |
| 10:24.01 | umdk1d3 | tomgibara: latex =D |
| 10:24.11 | umdk1d3 | are you thinking about publishing? |
| 10:24.28 | tomgibara | no, I use it for all my mathematical documentation |
| 10:24.39 | umdk1d3 | <3 latex |
| 10:25.05 | tomgibara | Though I'm excited to say, that there is nothing in literature that I can find, so it might be genuinely new |
| 10:25.30 | tomgibara | but who's going to publish it? |
| 10:25.30 | umdk1d3 | do you have access to acm/ieee journals? |
| 10:25.38 | tomgibara | no :( |
| 10:25.44 | umdk1d3 | thats the one thing driving me nuts about scholar.google.com |
| 10:25.52 | tomgibara | Obviously the abstracts come up on searches. |
| 10:26.05 | umdk1d3 | i had to hack together a greasemonkey script to proxy through an edu account i still have |
| 10:26.26 | tomgibara | I totally agree with you about scholar.google.com |
| 10:26.58 | umdk1d3 | at least it does fulltext searching tho ^.^ |
| 10:27.24 | tomgibara | To be fair, I'm not a scholar, I'm a programmer. |
| 10:30.18 | umdk1d3 | tomgibara: when you mention "loss", is there some redunancy/error detection in the coding? |
| 10:31.44 | tomgibara | There's no error detection, but there are (possibly - not demonstrated any yet) some larger sets of patterns that have the same properties |
| 10:32.32 | tomgibara | You want to use the largest set of patterns since each pattern allows you to store a single value |
| 10:33.08 | tomgibara | What I did was use an informal argument (which I strongly suspect is correct) to establish how big a 'perfect' set could be |
| 10:33.41 | umdk1d3 | hmm |
| 10:33.44 | tomgibara | the efficiency/loss quoted is in relation to that |
| 10:34.01 | umdk1d3 | ohh ic |
| 10:35.14 | umdk1d3 | youve talked with dan @ google in the past, right? |
| 10:35.20 | umdk1d3 | he might be interested in this |
| 10:35.24 | tomgibara | I'm afraid the document is hastily written - it's more documentation for me than anything else, but I post them because someone else might just find them useful. |
| 10:35.48 | tomgibara | Dan Morrill? |
| 10:35.55 | umdk1d3 | sry daniel s. |
| 10:36.14 | umdk1d3 | worked on zxing |
| 10:36.42 | tomgibara | Yes, I think I've had brief email correspondence iirc. |
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| 11:07.36 | Kizoomer121 | hey all. How would i delete all rows from a TableLayout? Do i have to iterate through? |
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| 11:12.17 | Kizoomer121 | ahhh, perhaps removeAllViewsInLayout |
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| 13:44.29 | zhobbs | I wonder how much slower moving through a Cursor is compared to an ArrayList... |
| 13:45.22 | umdk1d3 | Cursor is just an interface ;) |
| 13:45.29 | umdk1d3 | it could be arraylist backed |
| 13:45.39 | zhobbs | sorry, SqlLiteCursor |
| 13:45.42 | umdk1d3 | but i know what you mean--when its backed by sqlite |
| 13:46.15 | zhobbs | or SQLiteCursor |
| 13:46.35 | umdk1d3 | well i think the cursor exists in memory, because its an already-run query |
| 13:46.44 | umdk1d3 | so it should be pretty fast |
| 13:47.41 | jasta | umdk1d3: actually, sqlite3 doesn't hold the result set in memory |
| 13:48.17 | jasta | it is more a reference to the result set, but stepping through a statement will be performing reads normally. |
| 13:48.23 | umdk1d3 | oh interesting |
| 13:48.32 | umdk1d3 | makes sense for larger queries |
| 13:48.37 | jasta | (and this is how most engines work) |
| 13:48.40 | zhobbs | yeah, I was assuming it wasn't in memory |
| 13:49.01 | jasta | zhobbs: so, in that sense, stepping has the overhead of disk I/O, which is *WAY* heavier than memory I/O :) |
| 13:49.02 | tomgibara | jasta: I have no evidence for this, but I'm assuming that internally it pages results |
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| 13:49.39 | jasta | tomgibara: yes, it does. but its algorithm is pretty inefficient at dealing with alrge result sets, which is why they recommend you not store large BLOBs. |
| 13:50.59 | jasta | bbl, more sleep :) |
| 13:51.22 | jasta | tomgibara: rather, imeant at large result rows. the set size is irrelevant |
| 13:51.39 | tomgibara | I understood what you meant :) |
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| 15:06.43 | Disconnect | neat. the j2me 'microemulator' for android can run opera mini |
| 15:07.34 | wastrel | finally a decent browser |
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| 15:07.55 | unix_lappy | meh, it's friday, if rumors are true people should start chiming in about unboxing their new toys. |
| 15:08.57 | zhobbs | yeah, wonder if that'll happen |
| 15:11.02 | Disconnect | mine still says "shipping info" :( |
| 15:11.40 | summatusmentis | wastrel: did you order one? |
| 15:12.01 | wastrel | summatusmentis: i'm not an existing t-mob customer |
| 15:12.10 | wastrel | have to wait til 22nd & stand in line |
| 15:14.37 | summatusmentis | oh, that's annoying |
| 15:16.01 | umdk1d3 | ooh there appears to be an unknown <manifest> attribs that helps describe your app across the system |
| 15:17.31 | zhobbs | umdk1d3: such as? |
| 15:19.19 | umdk1d3 | zhobbs: i dont know yet, lol |
| 15:19.23 | umdk1d3 | there is only one app using it |
| 15:19.28 | umdk1d3 | digs into apk manifest |
| 15:21.36 | umdk1d3 | grr wbxml2xml isnt happy with androids custom format |
| 15:21.49 | umdk1d3 | anyone else have a good xml decoder for taht stuff? |
| 15:21.56 | umdk1d3 | i thought i saw somewhere that it was wbxml |
| 15:22.15 | zhobbs | umdk1d3: jasta wrote one |
| 15:23.16 | umdk1d3 | pokes jasta |
| 15:23.26 | umdk1d3 | it /looks/ like android:description |
| 15:23.49 | umdk1d3 | and it then shows up in settings -> applications -> manage list |
| 15:23.56 | michaelnovakjr_ | http://code.google.com/p/android-random |
| 15:24.02 | zhobbs | http://devtcg.blogspot.com/2008/03/tool-to-read-android-binary-xml-files.html |
| 15:24.09 | umdk1d3 | yay axml2xml.pl |
| 15:24.13 | michaelnovakjr_ | umdk1d3: http://code.google.com/p/android-random/downloads/list |
| 15:24.16 | michaelnovakjr_ | download is there |
| 15:24.29 | umdk1d3 | awesome michaelnovakjr_ thx :) |
| 15:24.34 | michaelnovakjr_ | no problem |
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| 15:26.49 | umdk1d3 | o.o Out of memory during array extend at ../axml2xml.pl line 314, <> chunk 1. |
| 15:32.39 | zhobbs | 4GB micro sd $11: http://www.woot.com/ |
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| 15:35.22 | umdk1d3 | zhobbs: after shipping>? |
| 15:35.37 | umdk1d3 | ooh yes, $11 total =D |
| 15:36.09 | michaelnovakjr_ | not bad |
| 15:37.40 | summatusmentis | I'm still decided if I should |
| 15:39.20 | ttuttle | Hey. |
| 15:44.56 | wastrel | ah the woot i was thinking of getting that |
| 15:45.02 | wastrel | i have a 250MB micro sd |
| 15:45.13 | Disconnect | $4 each for up to 3 of them, flat $5 shipping |
| 15:45.26 | Disconnect | but i've got 2 4g microsd already so.. |
| 15:45.43 | jasonchen | umdk1d3: if you want to read the AndroidManifest.xml file in an existing .apk, you can just use aapt |
| 15:46.23 | umdk1d3 | ooh /me tries |
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| 15:47.12 | jasonchen | aapt dump xmltree filename.apk AndroidManifest.xml |
| 15:47.32 | umdk1d3 | aha there we go, so if you put android:description into your <application> tag, it will be helpful to users in other places on the system |
| 15:47.52 | umdk1d3 | ive only seen *one* other app doing this so far |
| 15:48.48 | umdk1d3 | specifically in "manage applications", where people are deciding what to put on the chopping block ;) |
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| 15:50.17 | unix_lappy | jasonchen: was watching your Android 101 talk from IO last night, major props ;-) |
| 15:53.33 | jasonchen | unix_lappy: thanks! |
| 15:53.55 | unix_lappy | "thank you mac os" :-P |
| 15:54.18 | jasonchen | unix_lappy: haha. you're referring to my other talk where the laptop crashes? |
| 15:56.42 | ttuttle | purchased an 8 GB Transcend microSDHC from Newegg for a little over $30 shipped. |
| 15:56.55 | unix_lappy | haha, yea. |
| 15:57.34 | unix_lappy | definitely one of those coding under pressure moments that we all enjoy. |
| 15:59.07 | ttuttle | Question: |
| 15:59.19 | ttuttle | Is it a bad idea to do qb.appendWhere("id=" + uri.getPathSegments().get(1))/ |
| 15:59.28 | ttuttle | Could someone sneak in an SQL injection attach? |
| 15:59.45 | umdk1d3 | ideally you would check for the injection on the server side? |
| 15:59.59 | ttuttle | umdk1d3: This is on the device, in a ContentProvider. |
| 16:00.01 | michaelnovakjr_ | you should scrub any data going into a db |
| 16:00.48 | umdk1d3 | doesnt the query builder automatically escape stuff if you use it correctly? (with "?" in the string, then filled later with String[]) |
| 16:01.03 | ttuttle | umdk1d3: Ooh, that sounds useful. Lemme try it. |
| 16:01.10 | ttuttle | Oh, duh. |
| 16:01.13 | ttuttle | Use Integer.parseInt first. |
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| 16:01.44 | umdk1d3 | sqlitedatabase.query() takes String[] |
| 16:02.21 | umdk1d3 | i dont see it talking about any injection prevention, but it seems like the pattern they would use to provide it |
| 16:05.37 | ttuttle | Hey. |
| 16:05.49 | ttuttle | Is there any reason I couldn't build a ContentProvider that is backed by a web service instead of a database? |
| 16:06.08 | wastrel | can't use your app in the subway |
| 16:06.21 | ttuttle | True. |
| 16:06.35 | ttuttle | This wouldn't replace the database one. |
| 16:06.48 | ttuttle | It would be instead of just a regular boring class to query the web interface. |
| 16:08.54 | unix_lappy | ttuttle: I hope you can do that, been meaning to try that out today. |
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| 16:14.21 | ttuttle | unix_lappy: What do you mean? |
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| 16:25.03 | ttuttle | Why does query take both a uri and the selection stuff |
| 16:25.04 | ttuttle | ? |
| 16:26.31 | jasta | because its a leaky abstraction |
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| 16:26.45 | ttuttle | Yeah, it seems so. |
| 16:27.00 | ttuttle | I can't really imagine using a ContentProvider for anything but an SQL database. |
| 16:27.52 | jasta | imo it's a _very_ weak point of Android's otherwise very elegant design |
| 16:29.26 | ttuttle | Hopefully it'll be redesigned for 2.0. |
| 16:31.20 | jasta | fortunately android will be open source which will make investigating contentproviders much easier :) |
| 16:31.52 | jasta | documenting a contentprovider is essentially impossible short of simply showing developers what query is being performed. the abstractions are way too flimsy for anything else |
| 16:36.20 | ttuttle | Yeah, I feel like accepting arguments that are snippets of SQL and returning a Cursor is pretty much giving up on allowing non-SQLite queryproviders ;-) |
| 16:37.54 | muthu_ | it don't have to be snippets of sql |
| 16:38.03 | muthu_ | you can do whatever behind the scenes |
| 16:38.40 | muthu_ | if its a web service, then you would not deal with sql |
| 16:38.49 | ttuttle | muthu_: Hmm. |
| 16:38.58 | ttuttle | muthu_: So what format is the "selection" argument to query? |
| 16:39.20 | cbeust | Whatever the content provider understands |
| 16:39.30 | cbeust | as muthu says, it doesn't have to be an SQL fragment |
| 16:39.33 | ttuttle | Hrm, okay. |
| 16:39.35 | cbeust | although most probably will |
| 16:39.50 | ttuttle | Hrm. |
| 16:40.59 | muthu_ | yeah mostly content providers are for db |
| 16:45.31 | ttuttle | ContentProviders are annoying. |
| 16:45.45 | ttuttle | They're just "SQL situps". |
| 16:46.40 | zhobbs | romainguy___: if I add a View to my Activity via the WindowManager should I have to do anything different as far as View.startAnimation? It's not animating for some reason... |
| 16:46.49 | muthu_ | ttuttle: not really, as you said you can use it with a webservice |
| 16:46.57 | ttuttle | muthu_: Yeah, but they're not designed for that. |
| 16:48.39 | ttuttle | should try writing a contentprovider for isbndb.com. |
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| 16:57.45 | jasta | ttuttle: that's precisely why the abstraction is so bad :) |
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| 16:58.39 | cbeust | jasta: I agree, it's a leaky abstraction, you are welcome to suggest something better... |
| 16:59.15 | cbeust | I didn't really like it when the design started going down that road, but I was never able to come up with something better |
| 16:59.29 | jasta | well it's a tricky problem space. you want to generalize access to data, but such an obtuse generalization will surely be impossible to use and horribly inefficient |
| 16:59.40 | cbeust | Exactly. |
| 16:59.47 | ttuttle | cbeust: So, I feel like ContentValues is good, but the selection arguments are lame. |
| 16:59.59 | cbeust | And RDBMS can take you very far in this direction, so it seems like a decent foundation for an abstraction, no matter how leaky |
| 17:00.27 | jasta | i think there is an improvement waiting to come out there, i just haven't given enough thought to what might be a better strategy |
| 17:00.39 | jasta | in the mean time, however, the documentation *ON* contentproviders is absolutely essential |
| 17:00.45 | jasta | without knowing the schema and queries underneath it, it is UNUSABLE |
| 17:01.03 | jasta | so, if you're going to support your own leaky abstraction you at least need to make your documentation equally leaky |
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| 17:03.59 | jasta | even my own contentproviders i find i constantly need to go back and examine what in the hell the queries are actually doing |
| 17:04.59 | muthu_ | will there be a hibernate for android? |
| 17:05.00 | jasta | also, the support tools you guys use to tidy up this generalization aren't especially consistent. for example, the projectionmap should be applicable to selection and orderby columns |
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| 17:05.19 | cbeust | muthu_: seems a bit overkill, but who knows |
| 17:05.30 | muthu_ | yeah, hibernate is neat |
| 17:05.35 | muthu_ | might be heavy |
| 17:05.36 | jasta | so if i have a query for some contenturi and i want to sort it a different way or where something else out of it, i need to use the name of the table to disambiguate |
| 17:05.39 | michaelnovakjr_ | hibernate?? |
| 17:05.41 | michaelnovakjr_ | why |
| 17:05.51 | cbeust | Make ORM a bit easier |
| 17:06.03 | michaelnovakjr_ | at the cost of performance though |
| 17:06.07 | cbeust | I have a lot of manual SELECTS and stuff in my code, might be nice to have a thin layer of abstraction |
| 17:06.14 | jasta | so like resolver.query(uri, ..., "a.track_num ASC"); -- the projection map knows track_num => a.track_num, so why can't i just ask for it that way? |
| 17:06.16 | cbeust | just wondering if performance and memory won't suffer too much |
| 17:06.18 | michaelnovakjr_ | you could easily write it better |
| 17:06.36 | michaelnovakjr_ | separate db stuff in its own classes |
| 17:06.45 | cbeust | Since we support annotations in Android, a thin layer is not out of the question |
| 17:07.01 | muthu_ | yeah, hibernate lite |
| 17:07.23 | michaelnovakjr_ | ? |
| 17:07.41 | muthu_ | michaelnovakjr_: currently orm is non existent in android |
| 17:07.56 | muthu_ | so something along those lines would be nice |
| 17:08.01 | michaelnovakjr_ | not really |
| 17:08.06 | michaelnovakjr_ | its just not handed to you |
| 17:08.30 | michaelnovakjr_ | if you write the same query more than once you are doing something wrong |
| 17:09.06 | jasta | raises his hand and says "guilty" |
| 17:09.38 | jasta | my database management is tragically specialized. part of me wants to believe its because generalized abstractions are going to be too inefficient |
| 17:09.39 | michaelnovakjr_ | i use db classes in my apps.... whether people agree with it or not.... it keeps things nice and neat |
| 17:09.42 | jasta | but really i'm just being lame :) |
| 17:10.12 | michaelnovakjr_ | i'm sure my stuff can be optimized but it is at least neat |
| 17:11.22 | cbeust | Speaking of which, new Android post on our blog: http://googlemobile.blogspot.com/2008/10/google-on-android-gmail-and-contacts.html |
| 17:11.55 | michaelnovakjr_ | my Messages app i wrote for the vogue uses methods in a class that run queries.... so in the other parts of the app i can use method calls instead of writing queries |
| 17:12.36 | jasta | cbeust: "We envisioned a world where your various computers and phones would always be in sync without needing discipline, USB cables, Bluetooth, and synchronization software." |
| 17:12.50 | jasta | this statement really embodies why i created Five |
| 17:12.50 | cbeust | Like that? :) |
| 17:13.30 | jasta | i'd like to think i'm taking the concept much further :) |
| 17:14.47 | Disconnect | damnit. now i remember why i stopped coding for a living. eats my brain and my time and my life :/ i've already got a list of about 10 utils and 3-4 proper apps that i need to write for android. except i have a wif and a house and a (fairly demanding) job and all that.. doh |
| 17:15.15 | Disconnect | but i think i'm gonna orphan my flashcard app for now, let tea.ch run unopposed (instead of just effectively unopposed :) ..) |
| 17:15.20 | jasta | Disconnect: yeah, its a bitch. pick 1 project and do it well. then quit your job and get someone to pay you to write the rest of them :) |
| 17:15.45 | Disconnect | yah tempting. some of the utils will be worth $1-$5, most will be free, and the apps.. i'm not sure i want to get deep into that mess again but i might :) |
| 17:15.57 | cbeust | Disconnect: I have a wife, a house, a dog and a World of Warcraft addiction. The only solution is to sleep less :) |
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| 17:16.35 | jasta | i'm not sure how WoW and wife are compatible. all the WoW people i know are desperately alone :) |
| 17:17.06 | jasta | but i do occassionally get sucked into games. Dougie187 and I were playing Diablo II like every day while I waited for the next SDK to drop :) |
| 17:17.29 | Disconnect | cbeust: i already do that. but lets look at a random week (last week).. sun ended at 2am, mon stated at 5:30-6am. work until get to PT at 7, then home at 8. 30 mins for a beer and a chill on the couch, then dinner, brief tv/rss catchup time, then 1 hour of coding, bed by 1. repeat until fri. (dinner guest wed so 2:30am instead of 1am..) |
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| 17:18.28 | Disconnect | cbeust: friday, basically the same. sat, up early, clean house, rennfest (rennfest.com is right up the road), 7:30pm half the world comes over for food/drink/hottub. that ended at 6am. up for skins game (don't want to talk about it) at 1030. then post-faire people again until 1. repeat @ monday.. |
| 17:18.45 | Disconnect | overall i get about 3 hours a week to spend coding. gonna try to get a netbook and up that (metro time) but .. ugh. |
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| 17:19.09 | zhobbs | seems like it'd be hard to code on the metro |
| 17:19.23 | invain | hi |
| 17:19.36 | invain | knock.. |
| 17:19.37 | Disconnect | nah its pretty simple. but i'm not whipping out and juggling a 17" mbp :) |
| 17:19.42 | jasta | Disconnect: i get about 4-5 hours a week on normal week, but this past month i have been asking for *lots* more time from my gf |
| 17:19.49 | Disconnect | heh |
| 17:19.55 | jasta | for instance, she's leaving tonight at 8 and coming back Sunday at 10pm :) |
| 17:20.03 | jasta | and all my housemates are going to portland |
| 17:20.05 | jasta | so i can really focus :) |
| 17:20.05 | Disconnect | nice |
| 17:20.10 | jasta | trying to get ready for Wed :) |
| 17:20.14 | jasta | (which i took off work *grin*) |
| 17:20.33 | Disconnect | heh |
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| 17:20.38 | Disconnect | thats right, you're doing hte in-line thing |
| 17:20.41 | herriojr | how do I inform a content observer of what row was modified without having an observer for each and every row? |
| 17:21.27 | herriojr | can I have the listener listen to content://com.something.object/# and that will do it? |
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| 17:22.33 | jasta | i was wondering about this myself |
| 17:22.40 | jasta | the observer framework feels very superficial |
| 17:29.22 | herriojr | I see that you can listen for a specific row, but I don't want to create a listener for each and every row |
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| 17:44.07 | Disconnect | would have more time for coding if he spent less time reloading the ups tracking page :) |
| 17:44.31 | blount | hahaha |
| 17:44.32 | DarkriftX | LOL |
| 17:44.44 | DarkriftX | waiting on your G1? |
| 17:46.38 | Lenolium | Disconnect: I'm 100% with you on that one. |
| 17:46.44 | zhobbs | Disconnect: when you supposed to get it? |
| 17:47.03 | herriojr | I should have mine today or monday I think |
| 17:48.30 | Disconnect | is still at "received billing info" |
| 17:48.39 | Disconnect | so chances are good its still palletized on a truck headed for atlanta :/ |
| 17:48.56 | Disconnect | once i've gotten a ground shipment delivered before it got listead as unpalletized/existing but only once.. |
| 17:49.08 | DarkriftX | every time you do /me i think i was "disconnected" |
| 17:49.19 | Disconnect | so far, for the record, it has taken longer from printing (10/15) to delivery (sometime after the weekend) than any of my 3 orders from brando in hong kong... |
| 17:49.21 | wastrel | i'm hoping there's not a line at the t-mob store on wed. :/ |
| 17:49.22 | DarkriftX | it shows up like my system messages do |
| 17:49.45 | Disconnect | ed by peer. |
| 17:49.52 | DarkriftX | lol |
| 17:50.18 | Disconnect | ed for excess idle. Enter nickserv password to reconnect: |
| 17:50.48 | muthu_ | g123 |
| 17:51.00 | zhobbs | is there a way to get the versionName from your <manifest> ? |
| 17:51.17 | zhobbs | (in code) |
| 17:51.25 | DarkriftX | who here is going to be doing reviews on their g1 when they get it? |
| 17:51.54 | herriojr | not I |
| 17:51.55 | plusminus_ | I planned to, but I was gone over with the review-devices :) |
| 17:51.59 | herriojr | too busy coding :) |
| 17:52.14 | DarkriftX | heh, thats not a bad thing herriojr |
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| 17:52.33 | Disconnect | will prolly do some microblogging on it but nothing major |
| 17:53.17 | Disconnect | whats the (effective) standard these days - controls at the top of the screen or at the bottom? |
| 17:53.39 | Disconnect | is thinking bottom, since the menu can cover it so its not doubley-wastful |
| 17:53.40 | DarkriftX | what kind of controls? |
| 17:53.41 | Disconnect | wasteful |
| 17:54.07 | Disconnect | most-used buttons (eg - for the flashcard app - "next card" "last card" "hint" .. things that don't belong behind a menu) |
| 17:54.22 | Lenolium | Disconnect: Bah, just use gestures. |
| 17:54.32 | wastrel | gestures too |
| 17:55.12 | Lenolium | Disconnect: Mine moved from "Billing Information Received" to "Delivery Rescheduled" today. It made me so happy. |
| 17:56.43 | Disconnect | Lenolium: cool |
| 17:56.50 | Disconnect | when is the resched? :) |
| 17:56.56 | Lenolium | Disconnect: the 21st |
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| 17:57.07 | DarkriftX | ouch |
| 17:57.08 | Disconnect | and gestures are all well and good (and i intend to take advantage) but sometimes you need a button :) |
| 17:57.26 | Disconnect | Lenolium: if you call them up you may be able to get hold-for-pickup at the local dist center, get it today/tomorrow |
| 17:57.27 | DarkriftX | id be going nuts waiting right now |
| 17:57.35 | DarkriftX | thats what i do lol |
| 17:57.44 | DarkriftX | "you are slow, where is it, ill get it myself" |
| 17:57.54 | Disconnect | is going with bottom.. this (unlike flashcards) is an app i'll use a lot, so if that sucks it'll get moved :) |
| 17:58.03 | Lenolium | Disconnect: Oh, it's rescheduled because the billing information was received so long ago and had a scheduled delivery date of the 17th. |
| 17:58.14 | DarkriftX | did you write the flashcards app? |
| 17:59.25 | Disconnect | DarkriftX: not tea.ch, i was writing a quickie one to get back into java with. just not worth releasing it :) although for only 25c you too can have a flashcard app with pre-determined flashcards. i'll even edit them for you so they don't say things like "1front of card is looooooooooooooooooooooooong long front 111111" and so forth :) |
| 17:59.48 | DarkriftX | LOL |
| 18:00.20 | DarkriftX | i was just wondering because im trying to find developer info for the apps i have on my site |
| 18:00.22 | DarkriftX | putting "Authors Site:" on each one, but not all authors are easy to track down |
| 18:01.49 | herriojr | ok, I can see how a contentobserver can be called when descendents are acted upon, but I can't find a way for the contentobserver to know exactly which row was modified |
| 18:02.51 | herriojr | has anyone else had experience with contentobservers? |
| 18:03.45 | jasta | sigh, stinkin' mediaplayer |
| 18:03.56 | jasta | it's relaly disappointing that ogg streaming wasnt implemented |
| 18:05.00 | pjv | DarkriftX: Which is your site again? |
| 18:09.36 | zhobbs | anyone here interested in helping on HelloAndroid.com....I pretty much have no time, and now that my job is Android it's even harder to get motivated |
| 18:10.09 | zhobbs | s/.../? / |
| 18:11.47 | pjv | zhobbs: help in what way? what kind of commitment? |
| 18:12.59 | zhobbs | pjv: no commitment...just would like to move it from "my" site to be the community's site instead |
| 18:13.05 | zhobbs | targeted at developers |
| 18:13.19 | wastrel | omfg |
| 18:13.25 | wastrel | this is a foo statement |
| 18:13.28 | wastrel | s/foo// |
| 18:13.30 | zhobbs | so...developer news, tutorials, tech articles, etc |
| 18:14.19 | wastrel | android eh |
| 18:14.23 | unix_lappy | zhobbs: i'm sure you could get nice coin for the domain... |
| 18:14.42 | zhobbs | hmm, I wonder |
| 18:14.54 | wastrel | no commitment, i can commit to that |
| 18:15.44 | *** join/#android cheng (n=cheng@xhss50-502aa.wh14.tu-dresden.de) |
| 18:16.24 | zhobbs | hehe, helloiphone.com is taken! |
| 18:16.30 | zhobbs | should have grabbed that too |
| 18:16.39 | michaelnovakjr_ | androidnerds.com |
| 18:16.47 | michaelnovakjr_ | still trying to figure out what to do with it |
| 18:16.49 | pjv | maybe, you and plusminus should sit together and unite forces (just a suggestion)? |
| 18:17.04 | pjv | he's great at forums and tutorials |
| 18:17.09 | zhobbs | yep |
| 18:17.23 | pjv | while you have the app db and the ideas tracker and some better presented tutorials |
| 18:17.48 | zhobbs | app db will probably go away because of Market |
| 18:17.50 | pjv | I'm sure 1 big site would be better than 2 small |
| 18:18.01 | pjv | (also in ads revenu) |
| 18:18.26 | pjv | app db go away? please no, I would really not like that |
| 18:18.36 | zhobbs | :) |
| 18:18.57 | pjv | see, I'm not sure if open source stuff would have its place on the Market |
| 18:19.10 | michaelnovakjr_ | well then that is what i'll support |
| 18:19.25 | pjv | also, I'm sure you or the community could filter apps, which will be much harder on the Market |
| 18:19.32 | zhobbs | I actually had an offer from someone to build a HelloAnroid app store for me for free |
| 18:19.34 | michaelnovakjr_ | androidnerds.com will support open source apps |
| 18:19.41 | *** part/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@wg-d232108.dsl.fsu.edu) |
| 18:19.42 | michaelnovakjr_ | hosting, etc. |
| 18:20.14 | Disconnect | random side note, bestest package tracker ever (and not my effort) isnoop.net/tracking .. one of the earlier google maps mashups |
| 18:20.16 | pjv | michaelnovakjr_: no hosting, just filtering, categorising, small reviews, updates, news |
| 18:20.34 | pjv | I'm pretty sure there are already lots of platforms (google code, launchpad, ...) |
| 18:21.17 | michaelnovakjr_ | eh, not a bad idea |
| 18:21.26 | pjv | zhobbs: also, face it, anddevs color scheme isn't exactly perfect ;-) |
| 18:21.27 | michaelnovakjr_ | sometimes googlecode sucks though |
| 18:21.36 | michaelnovakjr_ | its slwo |
| 18:22.03 | pjv | slow, but standardized |
| 18:22.11 | zhobbs | pjv: yeah, I think the presentation of tutorials is better on HA, but the community and quantity of tutorials at andev is awesome |
| 18:22.20 | pjv | launchpad is usually slow only if a page has changed (i think they cache it somehow) |
| 18:22.28 | pjv | zhobbs: exactly |
| 18:23.28 | DarkriftX | pjv, android-dls.com |
| 18:23.54 | pjv | one bigger site would also lend itself to community members taking up some level of responsibility/commitment (plusminus already asked for help in here too) |
| 18:25.02 | pjv | I mean: I'd like to contribute something substantial, but only once not 10x |
| 18:25.04 | *** join/#android Dougie187 (n=djacobse@class14.scs.fsu.edu) |
| 18:25.23 | michaelnovakjr_ | i'm open to idea |
| 18:25.24 | michaelnovakjr_ | s |
| 18:25.31 | *** join/#android JoeBrain (n=JoeBrain@adsl-70-232-148-93.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 18:25.45 | michaelnovakjr_ | i'd like to do something with androidnerds.com just haven't settled on something |
| 18:31.28 | Disconnect | anyone know if google is ever gonna fix the disaster that is gmail contacts on the web? |
| 18:31.47 | Disconnect | (not just the - now toggleable, yay - auto creation but the whole interface.. its so... web1.0) |
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| 19:08.46 | *** join/#android Tinyboom (n=nahh@23.80-202-156.nextgentel.com) |
| 19:10.49 | VickiWong | killswitch? fail |
| 19:13.51 | Disconnect | killswitch to remove spyware and allow applications to be returned - win. killswitch to prevent voip - fail. but .. meh. could be worse. tmob phones are generally so locked down that -nothing- works (eg gmail app can't get to the net, etc etc) so.... |
| 19:14.04 | *** join/#android TheOther (n=nahh@23.80-202-156.nextgentel.com) |
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| 19:15.41 | *** join/#android borism (n=boris@195-50-199-195-dsl.krw.estpak.ee) |
| 19:16.00 | VickiWong | i dont want anyone touching my handset's contents, wether it be to remove spyware or not |
| 19:16.03 | *** join/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@wg-d232108.dsl.fsu.edu) |
| 19:16.32 | cbeust | Easy: turn off data :) |
| 19:16.34 | umdk1d3 | idk if they will be able to remove apps installed outside of market |
| 19:16.44 | *** join/#android TheOther (n=nahh@23.80-202-156.nextgentel.com) |
| 19:16.57 | umdk1d3 | ya know, i wonder if they even have it implemented yet |
| 19:17.09 | umdk1d3 | right now its just in the legal terms |
| 19:18.41 | VickiWong | cbeust: im assuming that'd effect more then just killswitch |
| 19:19.24 | Disconnect | VickiWong: so wait for the source and see if its possible to rebuild it without the switch. (or, more to the point, see if they did anything evil with the images to prevent you from flashing custom versions) |
| 19:19.35 | plusminus_ | New York, New York ... tam tam tatatam... |
| 19:19.49 | Disconnect | but i'd bet the "return an app for free w/in 24 hours" option will go away as soon as you disable that switch.. |
| 19:20.18 | VickiWong | Disconnect: good point, once source is revealed things like this will be clearer |
| 19:20.57 | Disconnect | anyone from google want to comment briefly/generally on how the 24 hour app returns work? |
| 19:21.02 | Disconnect | is curious |
| 19:21.42 | umdk1d3 | i dont think they would release market open sourced |
| 19:22.07 | umdk1d3 | same reason why they wouldnt release youtube or the streetview app |
| 19:22.11 | Disconnect | no but once i have an apk installed, i can go to the market and say "um, i hate it, gimme my cash" .. how do they prevent me from just reinstalling it? |
| 19:22.33 | umdk1d3 | Disconnect: it would be tied with your google account probably |
| 19:22.48 | umdk1d3 | they prolly force you to associate a g-account to use market |
| 19:22.54 | Disconnect | (there's lots of 'probably'/'maybe', thats why i'm wondering :) ..) |
| 19:23.00 | umdk1d3 | true lol |
| 19:24.09 | *** join/#android MrKeuner (n=kudo@unaffiliated/mrkeuner) |
| 19:24.54 | MrKeuner | hi all, is it true that tracherous computing made its way into android ? |
| 19:25.38 | Disconnect | whats a tracherous? |
| 19:26.34 | umdk1d3 | it would be interesting how they would handle this "automatic uninstall" |
| 19:26.35 | MrKeuner | can google or somebody else remove any programs on my device without asking me |
| 19:26.57 | umdk1d3 | if its package-name-based, why couldnt i name my app something already taken by a legitimate app? |
| 19:27.20 | cbeust | We put code in Android that will steal your morning cereal and siphon off the gas in your tank while you sleep |
| 19:27.24 | *** join/#android matt_c (n=mcroydon@gozur.sunflowerbroadband.com) |
| 19:27.26 | VickiWong | MrKeuner: talking about the killswitch? if so then seems so |
| 19:27.29 | umdk1d3 | malicious app is called com.google.photostream or something |
| 19:27.31 | VickiWong | cbeust: I knew it! |
| 19:27.50 | JoeBrain | They're always after me Lucky Charms... |
| 19:27.53 | cbeust | VickiWong: black ops have been dispatched to your location |
| 19:28.09 | VickiWong | cbeust: u no can haz my crunchy nut >< |
| 19:28.10 | cbeust | expect helicopters and ninjas coming down your balcony any minute |
| 19:28.12 | MrKeuner | VickiWong: that is really sad, I was one of your users otherwise |
| 19:28.26 | VickiWong | MrKeuner: one of my users? |
| 19:28.33 | JoeBrain | lol |
| 19:28.38 | *** join/#android muthu (n=muthu@59.92.57.99) |
| 19:28.43 | cbeust | MrKeuner: yes, VickiWong is the enemy, well done |
| 19:28.44 | VickiWong | MrKeuner: only my bf gets to use me >< |
| 19:29.07 | VickiWong | you can keep your sticky hands to yerself |
| 19:29.24 | VickiWong | cbeust: enemy? : ( |
| 19:29.35 | Disconnect | ...my hands are clean, what about me? |
| 19:29.46 | umdk1d3 | ". in such an instance, Google retains the right to remotely remove those applications from your device at its sole discretion" |
| 19:29.48 | muthu | when the market opens? |
| 19:29.48 | VickiWong | Disconnect: touche |
| 19:29.57 | umdk1d3 | the key phase being "retains the right" |
| 19:29.58 | Disconnect | :) |
| 19:30.02 | Disconnect | s/e// |
| 19:30.08 | umdk1d3 | at this stage, i doubt theyve actually implemented it yet |
| 19:30.14 | Disconnect | (or is that s/t/d/ instead :) ..) |
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| 19:30.55 | MrKeuner | android license must be a non-free licence then |
| 19:31.19 | umdk1d3 | huh MrKeuner? |
| 19:31.26 | Disconnect | ..android license is apache. marketplace license is whatever they choose. |
| 19:31.45 | Disconnect | i think you are totally unclear on what you are talking about. |
| 19:32.07 | MrKeuner | marketplace is the application that installs remove software on android? |
| 19:32.10 | Disconnect | (i know, shocking coming from me, eh? but there's a difference between unclear and unable to articulate. i usually fall in the latter :) ..) |
| 19:32.11 | muthu | ha, the king of good times |
| 19:32.23 | Disconnect | MrKeuner: yep. |
| 19:32.36 | Disconnect | MrKeuner: it exists to remove software and molest your relatives. |
| 19:32.39 | MrKeuner | is it possible not to use marketplace? |
| 19:32.50 | cbeust | And steal cereal, don't forget that part |
| 19:32.52 | umdk1d3 | i think that most stuff on the emulator (minus maps) will be opensourced |
| 19:32.54 | muthu | there'll be many markets |
| 19:32.57 | Disconnect | oh yah, steal cereal |
| 19:33.14 | VickiWong | why everyone wanting my crunchy nut |
| 19:33.14 | umdk1d3 | MrKeuner: sure, you can install stuff from anywhere |
| 19:33.46 | MrKeuner | if application is not installed using marketplace, can't google remove the application at their discretion? |
| 19:33.48 | VickiWong | cbeust: your ninja army was foiled by my pirate guards, cereal is mine |
| 19:34.13 | umdk1d3 | MrKeuner: right, if i install something outside of marketplace, that clause doesnt(shouldnt) apply |
| 19:34.34 | MrKeuner | at least that's good to hear |
| 19:34.49 | muthu | but i think its an overreach |
| 19:34.53 | Disconnect | hey random oop question. say i've got an object that can either stand alone (Box) or be bundled with other like types (say, Pallet contains ArrayList<Box>) .. whats the best OOP way to represent that? esp given that I need a master list of Boxes anyway (CerealCompany contains AL<Box> AllOurBoxesEver and AL<Pallet> Pallets) |
| 19:35.23 | *** join/#android pardom (n=chatzill@75.144.91.181) |
| 19:35.45 | umdk1d3 | how often would you need to look over AllOurBoxesEver? |
| 19:35.48 | Disconnect | and i think google will apply that clause anyway. tmob (and other carriers) will insist on it. voip apps, for example, are verboten. i think the killswitch will have to go beyond marketplace for that to mean anything.. |
| 19:36.07 | Disconnect | its the primary interface. sometimes you'll look at all pallets instead, and drill down, but most of the time its box-oriented |
| 19:36.10 | muthu | killswitch must be killed |
| 19:36.39 | Disconnect | and when a new Box is created, sometimes its part of a pallet, sometimes not, and sometimes you go back later to make or break that association |
| 19:36.45 | MrKeuner | I am not using android |
| 19:36.53 | umdk1d3 | if its all pointer based, then it shouldnt be an issue to keep both AL's |
| 19:36.58 | Disconnect | MrKeuner: try #maemo, nice open mobile platform with no killswitch |
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| 19:37.08 | jasta | i think the kill switch is in somewhat poor taste, however if the kill switch has no ability to reach into the phone nad uninstall non-market apps, i don't really care |
| 19:37.15 | Disconnect | umdk1d3: yah. it just feels all tangled up tho |
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| 19:37.26 | jasta | the point is that there should be SOME friendly way for users to install apps that can't be remotely killed. |
| 19:37.41 | umdk1d3 | Disconnect: well, the other way would be for class Box { Pallet parent; } |
| 19:37.49 | umdk1d3 | if you dont need to use it that often |
| 19:38.08 | muthu | the user makes the decision to kill or not |
| 19:38.14 | Disconnect | hmmmm. actually, that might make more sense. esp since a Box only gets 1 Pallet. (and it translates to sqlite better too) |
| 19:38.18 | muthu | market mustn't dictate that |
| 19:38.43 | Disconnect | the Pallet.add(Box) { box.setParent(this) } feels weird to me but its not as tangled up. |
| 19:39.07 | covalentbond | Anyone know if there's any sort of unique device id available other than the IMEI? |
| 19:39.16 | Disconnect | covalentbond: mac address |
| 19:39.22 | Disconnect | covalentbond: either wifi or bt |
| 19:39.49 | covalentbond | available via SDK? |
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| 19:40.32 | *** join/#android AttractiveApe (n=phil@office.gossamer-threads.com) |
| 19:40.42 | abc[g] | yes |
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| 19:41.47 | covalentbond | nice. any idea what the call is to get it? |
| 19:41.52 | covalentbond | it doesn't appear in the java docs for android's flavor of java |
| 19:42.30 | abc[g] | :) |
| 19:43.23 | VickiWong | If anyone finds a way to fetch the user'ss google account information (specifically their registered location) give us a shout, still cant find a way mentioned anywhere |
| 19:43.28 | Disconnect | umdk1d3: i guess an that model the company would then hold AL<Pallet> ourPallets and AL<Box> ourBoxes .. dunno, my embedded xp and OOP learnings are both screaming 'run away' :) but i think it'll work. and if not.. well.. thats what refactoring is for. and/or v2.0 :) |
| 19:43.53 | *** join/#android muthu1 (n=muthu@59.92.57.99) |
| 19:44.21 | umdk1d3 | Disconnect: that pattern might get rid of the need for a Pallet to have an AL<Box> |
| 19:44.42 | umdk1d3 | its a tradeoff, depending on how you need to reference stuff |
| 19:45.13 | Disconnect | yah. i need to be able to get a list of pallets in a company, or a list of boxes in a company. (if i need a list of all boxes everywhere .. well.. thats too bad, at least for right now :) ..) |
| 19:45.50 | Disconnect | i'm gonna need a better way to instantiate all this anyway, the more i think about it the more i see OOM errors in my future. |
| 19:46.50 | Disconnect | Box is small, and Pallet is just a name and a list of Boxes, but .. hmm. if i was procedural i'd just take a list of Pallets when i needed it (with no associated boxes) and a list of the last 'n' boxes for the master display and not worry about the rest.. |
| 19:47.29 | Disconnect | but doing it that way is not even a little OOP.. |
| 19:48.07 | umdk1d3 | mmm /me throws in an interface Forklift{} and knock Box'es all over the floor |
| 19:48.23 | Disconnect | lol |
| 19:48.31 | Disconnect | isn't that an exception? |
| 19:48.42 | umdk1d3 | BoxKnockedOverException ;) |
| 19:48.43 | Disconnect | if not we need a new Forklift.driver |
| 19:49.43 | Disconnect | if pallets wait till later, its easy. company has boxes, boxes have names and values. done. |
| 19:49.55 | Disconnect | sounds like i just established a roadmap for 2.0 :) |
| 19:52.06 | *** part/#android MrKeuner (n=kudo@unaffiliated/mrkeuner) |
| 19:54.17 | VickiWong | is MenuItem add(int groupId, int itemId, int order, CharSequence title) the standard way of adding buttons to the phone menu? |
| 19:55.07 | muthu1 | you can load from xml |
| 19:55.30 | *** join/#android commonsguy (n=chatzill@70.44.71.92.res-cmts.sm.ptd.net) |
| 19:57.14 | VickiWong | muthu1: thats what i was aiming for :) |
| 19:57.40 | muthu1 | pretty easy, look at api demos |
| 19:57.50 | VickiWong | muthu1: checking them out now :) |
| 19:57.55 | muthu1 | cool |
| 20:00.50 | muthu | how's the viewgroup.layoutparams different from linearlayout.layoutparams? |
| 20:02.03 | jasta | the latter extends ViewGroup.LayoutParams to add layout parameters specific to LinearLayout's. |
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| 20:02.24 | muthu1 | its one of the annoying things |
| 20:02.32 | jasta | btw, do you know how to open up documentation? these past few days you've asked ridiculous questions well covered in android's docs. |
| 20:02.42 | muthu1 | yo |
| 20:03.54 | Disconnect | jasta: who? |
| 20:04.00 | jasta | muthu |
| 20:04.23 | muthu | jasta |
| 20:04.35 | Disconnect | just checking :) |
| 20:04.46 | muthu | haha |
| 20:05.41 | muthu | jasta: i've seen you asking the ridiculous of the ridiculous.. so what gives? |
| 20:08.07 | jasta | no, you haven't. |
| 20:08.30 | muthu1 | hehe |
| 20:08.57 | Dougie187 | damn, there are two muthus? the world must be ending |
| 20:09.15 | muthu1 | what's up Dougie187 |
| 20:09.33 | Dougie187 | doing homework. |
| 20:09.34 | muthu1 | how's your app coming along? |
| 20:09.52 | muthu1 | arggggh home work.. |
| 20:09.53 | *** join/#android meoblast001 (n=meoblast@dynamic-acs-24-239-93-241.zoominternet.net) |
| 20:10.32 | Dougie187 | app? |
| 20:10.53 | Dougie187 | I wish i had time for an app |
| 20:10.57 | muthu | hmmm |
| 20:11.05 | Dougie187 | but first comes homework. then comes research, and after that possibly comes an app |
| 20:11.19 | muthu | it can be parallel |
| 20:11.56 | muthu | 1.5 mil phones sold |
| 20:12.11 | zhobbs | muthu: we'll see about that |
| 20:12.11 | Dougie187 | thats a lie. |
| 20:12.13 | jasta | isn't that just an estimate based on nothing? |
| 20:12.28 | JoeAFK | funny maths |
| 20:12.33 | muthu | Dougie187: not a lie, maths |
| 20:12.37 | Dougie187 | its a lie |
| 20:12.44 | muthu | stats |
| 20:12.49 | Dougie187 | no. |
| 20:12.50 | Dougie187 | lie |
| 20:12.51 | jasta | god just shut up muthu |
| 20:12.55 | JoeAFK | lol |
| 20:12.56 | muthu | probabality |
| 20:13.07 | Dougie187 | http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/16/t-mobiles-g1-presales-arent-even-close-to-1-5m/ |
| 20:13.29 | Dougie187 | a.k.a. lie |
| 20:13.38 | muthu | http://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.readwriteweb.com%2Farchives%2F15_million_g1_mobile_phones_pre-sold.php&ei=6vH4SOzqH4686gOEp4GHDw&usg=AFQjCNGc7qnzMM5-hZlgD6-Vfk1WMxtUWQ&sig2=EN5xoQmlaYt093A2RGu1ZQ |
| 20:13.52 | Dougie187 | mine is more recent. |
| 20:13.59 | Dougie187 | biotch |
| 20:14.05 | JoeAFK | Lol muthu that cites Engadget as its source.. |
| 20:14.19 | JoeAFK | atleast for pre-order #s |
| 20:14.19 | muthu | lol |
| 20:14.44 | JoeAFK | Believe everything you read... especially in IRC :P |
| 20:14.47 | muthu | android has mostly got good reviews |
| 20:14.56 | jasta | and so he changes the subject hehe |
| 20:15.09 | jasta | to something also not true. android has mostly gotten mediocre reviews. |
| 20:15.10 | muthu1 | jasta: don't you wish its 15 mil? |
| 20:15.29 | jasta | do i wish completely absurd things were reality? no. |
| 20:15.33 | Dougie187 | jasta: yeah. most reviews say "its decent, but has a long way to come" |
| 20:15.35 | muthu1 | imagine.. how many people will use 5? |
| 20:15.41 | JoeAFK | I wish I were hooked up w/ a supermodel... |
| 20:15.56 | Dougie187 | there ya go JoeAFK, thinking like muthu |
| 20:16.01 | Dougie187 | except he believes he is. |
| 20:16.05 | JoeAFK | :) |
| 20:16.08 | jasta | no, thinking like muthu would be saying that he WILL hook up with a supermodel :) |
| 20:16.08 | fadden | http://i-want-a-pony.com/ |
| 20:16.13 | muthu1 | haha |
| 20:16.20 | jasta | or has already :) |
| 20:16.27 | muthu1 | its not that difficult ;) |
| 20:16.44 | JoeAFK | I think the G1 reviews will be mostly irrelevant anyways; not like there wont be another Android phone out soon enough |
| 20:16.46 | jasta | an american supermodel, how about that? :) |
| 20:16.49 | unix_lappy | icanhazpony.com |
| 20:16.52 | muthu1 | he |
| 20:17.15 | muthu1 | supermodels are from europe |
| 20:17.21 | muthu1 | what's an american supermodel? |
| 20:17.23 | jasta | i wonder how long i'd actually go to jail if i punch muthu in the face next time i see him |
| 20:17.28 | Dougie187 | JoeAFK: The relevant information from the G1 reviews is the direct information regarding Android, not the hardware |
| 20:17.33 | jasta | contacts legal council |
| 20:17.37 | muthu1 | lol |
| 20:17.38 | Dougie187 | jasta: probably like 1 day. |
| 20:17.39 | JoeAFK | Righto |
| 20:18.07 | muthu1 | jasta: are you coming for next IO? :) |
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| 20:18.17 | JoeAFK | Was there a first time you saw him jasta? And you didnt punch him then? :) |
| 20:18.18 | Dougie187 | JoeAFK: thats where people need to focus to make android better. so it can some day be a competition to the iPhone and winmo. |
| 20:18.43 | Dougie187 | i think most people would take the opportunity now. |
| 20:18.47 | JoeAFK | Right but I get the feeling everyone wants to compare something to the iPhone; so they'll focus on it as a whole |
| 20:19.04 | muthu1 | ok, lets be honest |
| 20:19.13 | Dougie187 | true, but if the software blows the iPhones software out of the water, the hardware won't matter as much. |
| 20:19.15 | muthu1 | why you folks are so pessimist about android? |
| 20:19.30 | JoeAFK | Not pessimistic, just not a fanboy |
| 20:19.38 | Dougie187 | muthu1: you just think we are pessimistic because we are realistic and you are retardedly optimistic. |
| 20:19.42 | JoeAFK | lol |
| 20:19.43 | muthu1 | its got good reviews, reasonable preorders etc., |
| 20:19.55 | JoeAFK | It does; but when you spout 1.5M... |
| 20:20.02 | muthu1 | not me |
| 20:20.09 | muthu1 | the blogosphere says 1.5m |
| 20:20.09 | Dougie187 | muthu1 it has got *DECENT* reviews. and reasonable preorders. |
| 20:20.26 | Dougie187 | omg, the internet is always right isn't it muthu1? |
| 20:20.37 | muthu | Dougie187: its not one source |
| 20:20.39 | muthu | its many |
| 20:20.47 | Dougie187 | what would you do if I wrote a blog that said android sucks and the g1 is garbage, and tmobile has -1.8trillion preorders? |
| 20:20.49 | JoeAFK | "muthu: 1.5 mil phones sold" |
| 20:20.59 | Dougie187 | muthu: all of those sources get their info from the same place. |
| 20:21.12 | Dougie187 | you can't read 20 articles that site the same source and say they are all different articles. |
| 20:21.35 | muthu1 | all i'm saying is.. |
| 20:21.40 | muthu1 | ANDROID ROCKS |
| 20:21.49 | JoeAFK | then you shoulda just said that instead |
| 20:22.03 | Dougie187 | all im saying is Android could rock. |
| 20:22.17 | muthu1 | 1.5m preorders is big deal |
| 20:22.23 | muthu1 | that's why the blogs reported |
| 20:22.23 | Dougie187 | there he goes again. |
| 20:22.25 | Dougie187 | you don't even get it. |
| 20:22.30 | muthu1 | and you folks don't want to believe it |
| 20:22.31 | Dougie187 | you arn't reading anything im writing. |
| 20:22.47 | Dougie187 | so i will just stop. your brain is too thick for the internet. |
| 20:22.53 | muthu1 | lol |
| 20:23.02 | muthu1 | i'm open |
| 20:23.07 | muthu1 | you folks are closed |
| 20:23.09 | Dougie187 | no you're not. |
| 20:23.10 | Disconnect | muthu1: the blogs made it up. someone heard that tmob ordered 500,000 units. then sold out and tripled their order. HOWEVER... |
| 20:23.12 | Dougie187 | you won't listen. |
| 20:23.20 | JoeAFK | Gullible != Open |
| 20:23.23 | muthu1 | right, so there's this news |
| 20:23.27 | muthu1 | which is all over the place |
| 20:23.36 | muthu1 | and no one knows what's true |
| 20:23.42 | Dougie187 | muthu1: all of that news came from the same f'ing place. |
| 20:23.45 | Disconnect | muthu1: chances are the 500,000 units were preorder, sale and probably even the whole quarter. (the actual preorder might have been 100,000, later upped to 3x whatever it was) |
| 20:23.52 | JoeAFK | So you act like a bird & follow the rest instead of thinking for yourself |
| 20:24.12 | muthu1 | the only problem is.. |
| 20:24.17 | JoeAFK | Motley Fool is clearly no longer a reputable source |
| 20:24.19 | muthu1 | there's something called world.. outside US |
| 20:24.27 | muthu1 | and you are thinking about those numbers |
| 20:24.28 | Dougie187 | omg... |
| 20:24.41 | Disconnect | here's the only actual source - http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/10/12/1-5-million-t-mobile-g1s-already-pre-ordered/ .. everyone else is quoting him. and he has no actual info. |
| 20:24.42 | muthu1 | the 1.5m number is allover the world |
| 20:24.51 | Disconnect | ...no, its not. |
| 20:25.00 | Dougie187 | Disconnect: AND! After that they reverted that post. |
| 20:25.06 | Dougie187 | Can anyone outside of the US even preorder yet? |
| 20:25.15 | muthu1 | yeah, in UK |
| 20:25.19 | JoeAFK | muthu, now everyone's saying that 1.5M is wrong, so why wont you believe all the sources again? |
| 20:25.20 | Dougie187 | not reverted... retracted. |
| 20:25.31 | tomgibara | muthu1: no you can't preorder in the UK yet |
| 20:25.40 | muthu1 | haha |
| 20:25.47 | Dougie187 | looks like muthu1 doesn't know what hes talking about. |
| 20:25.59 | muthu1 | tomgibara: did you read the forums? |
| 20:26.05 | JoeAFK | Actually the source is here: http://www.fool.com/investing/high-growth/2008/10/09/google-were-fresh-out-of-androids.aspx |
| 20:26.11 | tomgibara | muthu1: which ones? |
| 20:26.24 | JoeAFK | The Eng. post just didnt seem to cite the source |
| 20:26.28 | muthu1 | where Al talked about the preorders |
| 20:26.35 | muthu1 | the google forums |
| 20:26.46 | Disconnect | here it is. http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2008/10/16/t-mobile-g1-pre-order-numbers-way-too-astronomical/ |
| 20:26.56 | tomgibara | I may have done, but I would instantly choose to ignore and forget it |
| 20:27.03 | Disconnect | JoeAFK: yah i hit the wrong link :) |
| 20:27.08 | tomgibara | As I've said before, I ignore most of that stuff |
| 20:27.10 | JoeAFK | :) |
| 20:27.15 | Disconnect | the last link is where the #s came from (boygenius) |
| 20:27.24 | Disconnect | rather, explains where they came from |
| 20:27.32 | muthu1 | boygenius - is he from engadget? |
| 20:27.38 | JoeAFK | Every reputable blog is now making excuses for the lousy fool.com article |
| 20:28.07 | Dougie187 | muthu1 doesn't get it... |
| 20:28.12 | Dougie187 | its not worth anyones time... |
| 20:28.16 | muthu1 | Dougie187: its not about getting it |
| 20:28.17 | Disconnect | yah it took apple 20 countries and a -huge- media push to get 1mil in a weekend. tmob has neither of those things. |
| 20:28.52 | JoeAFK | lol clearly 'understanding' is not your primary concern muthu |
| 20:29.02 | muthu1 | gphone will sell more than iphone |
| 20:29.17 | *** join/#android Adamant (n=Adamant@c-98-244-152-196.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 20:29.19 | JoeAFK | Androids in total maybe, but probably not the G1 |
| 20:29.21 | Dougie187 | muthu1 you had no idea about that. |
| 20:29.28 | muthu1 | no one has any ideas |
| 20:29.33 | Dougie187 | you are just making up crap now. |
| 20:29.36 | tomgibara | muthu1: And what exactly is a gphone? |
| 20:29.40 | Dougie187 | don't say thing you can't back up. |
| 20:29.50 | Dougie187 | things* |
| 20:29.56 | muthu1 | whatever i've said so far has been proven true |
| 20:30.09 | Dougie187 | nothing you have said so far has been proven true. |
| 20:30.13 | Dougie187 | actually.. |
| 20:30.15 | umdk1d3 | lol |
| 20:30.19 | JoeAFK | lol |
| 20:30.20 | Dougie187 | most things you have said so far have been proven false. |
| 20:30.27 | muthu1 | negative |
| 20:30.37 | Dougie187 | what is one thing that you have said that has been proven true? |
| 20:30.48 | JoeAFK | circular argument, he just lives in a different reality |
| 20:30.59 | muthu1 | i said android will get positive reviews inspite of phone |
| 20:31.20 | muthu1 | i've said android is the next vb for mobile phones |
| 20:31.25 | tomgibara | muthu1: I think you'd be best to drop this, it's not worth the abuse |
| 20:31.33 | muthu1 | haha |
| 20:31.38 | muthu1 | abuse is a motivator! |
| 20:31.41 | Dougie187 | muthu1: where is a positive review? |
| 20:31.52 | tomgibara | Okay, prepare for a lot of motivation |
| 20:31.56 | muthu1 | lol |
| 20:32.09 | muthu1 | Dougie187: where were you hiding? |
| 20:32.24 | muthu1 | haven't you read no positive reviews so far? |
| 20:32.34 | Dougie187 | muthu1: i have read quite a few of the reviews. were you on shrooms when you read these? or on acid or sometihng? |
| 20:33.48 | Dougie187 | Have you noticed how there isn't even one person in here backing you up? |
| 20:33.57 | Dougie187 | doesn't that make you think you might be wrong? |
| 20:34.13 | JoeAFK | thinking is not his forte |
| 20:34.19 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 20:34.20 | Dougie187 | true. |
| 20:34.27 | muthu1 | back.. |
| 20:34.37 | VickiWong | wow claws really are coming out today |
| 20:34.50 | JoeAFK | ugh IRC makes it too easy to procrastinate |
| 20:35.03 | muthu1 | everyone is in agreement.. |
| 20:35.04 | JoeAFK | If I wasn't @ work, I'dve probably have just muted this whole convo :) |
| 20:35.11 | VickiWong | and this used to be such a civilised place |
| 20:35.12 | *** part/#android commonsguy (n=chatzill@70.44.71.92.res-cmts.sm.ptd.net) |
| 20:35.27 | muthu1 | VickiWong: welcome to android ;) |
| 20:35.37 | JoeAFK | I didnt think anywhere on IRC was civilized |
| 20:36.01 | muthu1 | if its civilized, we won't be here.. lol |
| 20:36.02 | Dougie187 | well im out now. time to pick up my wife. muthu1 i expect to have a 100% positive review of android from someone other than you from a reputable site when i can back up. |
| 20:36.04 | VickiWong | JoeAFK: i have my own private channel, very civilized in there :) |
| 20:36.08 | JoeAFK | lol |
| 20:36.13 | muthu1 | Dougie187: hang on |
| 20:36.16 | muthu1 | let me cite the source |
| 20:36.26 | Dougie187 | give it to me later. |
| 20:36.28 | Dougie187 | i can't read it now. |
| 20:36.29 | *** part/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@wg-d232108.dsl.fsu.edu) |
| 20:36.36 | VickiWong | Dougie187: 100% in order to be considered a positive review? so your saying they are all 100% negative? |
| 20:37.18 | muthu | he doesn't understand there's no 100% |
| 20:37.29 | VickiWong | realizes she is talking to a plastic plant and tht Dougie has already left... |
| 20:37.39 | muthu | hehe |
| 20:37.59 | muthu | wow, time flies here |
| 20:38.01 | VickiWong | muthu: I know, i love that argument 'if there is no 100% positive review then there are NO positive reviews' :D |
| 20:38.13 | muthu | lol |
| 20:38.44 | JoeAFK | actually I'm sure you can find a 100% positive review on some idiots blog |
| 20:38.47 | muthu1 | android is the next best thing, since sliced bread |
| 20:39.00 | VickiWong | sliced bread wasnt so great |
| 20:39.04 | languish | sliced bread isn't such a great thing |
| 20:39.13 | VickiWong | languish: beat ya to the punch :D |
| 20:39.14 | languish | it causes bread to mold faster |
| 20:39.18 | languish | :) |
| 20:39.23 | muthu1 | android is the next best thing, since big mac |
| 20:39.26 | VickiWong | great minds.. |
| 20:39.30 | languish | heh |
| 20:39.35 | umdk1d3 | android makes people fat? o.o |
| 20:39.39 | muthu1 | lol |
| 20:39.49 | JoeAFK | bacon and android sandwich |
| 20:40.03 | languish | muthu, android is the next best thing to google spam filtering |
| 20:40.12 | languish | :) |
| 20:40.16 | muthu1 | :) |
| 20:40.26 | muthu1 | allright people, go back to work ;) |
| 20:40.45 | VickiWong | Is inflating XML the only way to define menu buttons using XML? |
| 20:41.03 | muthu1 | yes |
| 20:41.34 | VickiWong | muthu1: dangnabbit that was a waisted search :D |
| 20:41.52 | *** join/#android Tinyboom (n=nahh@23.80-202-156.nextgentel.com) |
| 20:42.13 | muthu | VickiWong: where you from? |
| 20:42.24 | VickiWong | muthu: Hong Kong |
| 20:42.31 | muthu | great |
| 20:42.48 | VickiWong | muthu: why? and how about yourself, UK? |
| 20:43.00 | muthu | India |
| 20:43.15 | VickiWong | wow i missed by quite a distance :D |
| 20:43.22 | muthu | haha |
| 20:43.24 | *** join/#android cybereagle (n=cybereag@unaffiliated/cybereagle) |
| 20:43.28 | muthu | visit US for business |
| 20:43.43 | muthu | am planning to come china, hongkong |
| 20:43.46 | VickiWong | I study in UK |
| 20:43.51 | muthu | cool |
| 20:43.52 | VickiWong | 'when' im studying |
| 20:44.00 | muthu | what you do now? |
| 20:44.03 | VickiWong | cool when you coming to HK? |
| 20:44.15 | muthu | sometime next year |
| 20:44.18 | VickiWong | Im on a BSc degree course at moment |
| 20:44.29 | muthu | what brought you to android? |
| 20:44.35 | VickiWong | currently looking for a job for my work placement year |
| 20:45.03 | VickiWong | been doing mobile development for past 2 years, in Java. Big fan of Google and love the ideals behind Android :) |
| 20:45.03 | muthu | heard hongkong is wonderful |
| 20:45.12 | muthu | nice |
| 20:45.21 | VickiWong | how about yourself? |
| 20:45.41 | muthu | http://linkedin.com/in/tellibitz |
| 20:45.46 | muthu | http://mobeegal.in |
| 20:46.05 | muthu | that's my story |
| 20:47.01 | VickiWong | cool |
| 20:49.37 | languish | hmm |
| 20:49.48 | languish | Does this channel have a website? |
| 20:49.59 | stadlero | code.google.com/android :) |
| 20:50.00 | muthu | android.com |
| 20:50.04 | VickiWong | :D |
| 20:50.22 | f00f- | muthu when is your content up for mbgl |
| 20:50.48 | languish | I think it might be a good idea to have a site dedicated to this channe, to list links we discuss, and reference projects of the regulars..etc |
| 20:50.55 | languish | +l |
| 20:51.03 | f00f- | languish agree. lots of newb questions, so we need a faq. |
| 20:51.03 | jasta | languish: i agree, a wiki would be good for that |
| 20:51.18 | languish | Well I'm not doing it. |
| 20:51.26 | languish | But I think it's a god idea :) |
| 20:51.29 | *** join/#android muthu_ (n=mobeegal@59.92.57.99) |
| 20:51.29 | languish | *good |
| 20:51.51 | muthu | f00f-: oyyo |
| 20:51.58 | muthu | what's up f00f- y! |
| 20:52.04 | languish | mostly because I don't have the time to dedicate to it, or the skills to make it sufficiently presentable |
| 20:52.19 | f00f- | muthu: not much. i've already got a feature request for pednav ;) |
| 20:52.28 | muthu | nice |
| 20:52.30 | f00f- | muthu: some guy mailed us, heard about it in some top 15 article |
| 20:52.31 | muthu | pednav rocks |
| 20:52.38 | languish | cool |
| 20:52.40 | muthu | wonderful |
| 20:52.52 | f00f- | now if i can just finish coding it then we can actually rock something ;) |
| 20:52.59 | f00f- | hopefully i can get a phone before they run out |
| 20:53.02 | muthu | just do it |
| 20:53.07 | jasta | f00f-: you trying to get one on day 1? |
| 20:53.16 | *** join/#android jt436 (n=jtomlins@sdserver66.mforma.com) |
| 20:53.26 | f00f- | jasta: i'm trying to work the business angle, failing that, go into the store |
| 20:53.39 | jasta | the business angle? bribing t-mobile reps? :) |
| 20:53.48 | jasta | i already thought of that, didn't work hehe |
| 20:53.52 | f00f- | no, just trying to set up biz service |
| 20:53.57 | languish | f00f-, just connect with a store manager |
| 20:54.12 | muthu | not sure, why f00f- did not get a G1 |
| 20:54.22 | jasta | i'm gonna head into the t-mobile store i plan to go to on Wed and talk to the manager actually. make sure they are expecting a big shipment |
| 20:54.33 | *** part/#android muthu1 (n=muthu@59.92.57.99) |
| 20:54.37 | jasta | f00f-: that probably will get you one later, actually |
| 20:54.42 | michaelnovakjr_ | jasta, i can send my cousin vinny for you |
| 20:54.47 | jasta | f00f-: they don't prioritize business customers like that... |
| 20:54.49 | michaelnovakjr_ | he's good with people |
| 20:55.04 | jasta | yeah? :) |
| 20:55.08 | f00f- | okay, i'll call the guy and see what he says |
| 20:55.10 | jasta | hehe, i have a friend that is actually like that. |
| 20:55.15 | michaelnovakjr_ | vinny from brooklyn |
| 20:55.22 | jasta | crazy Russian named Dmitri |
| 20:55.28 | michaelnovakjr_ | they are good too |
| 20:55.46 | jasta | oh, and my friend Scott is a large black man with 2 black belts ;) |
| 20:55.53 | michaelnovakjr_ | haH |
| 20:55.53 | jasta | he sure is scary |
| 20:56.02 | *** part/#android pardom (n=chatzill@75.144.91.181) |
| 20:56.02 | languish | jasta, that explains your gaping.. n/m |
| 20:56.11 | f00f- | hahaha |
| 20:56.19 | *** join/#android plusminus_ (i=4421a620@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-428c2354de03dc1e) |
| 20:56.25 | jasta | lol, we're going as The A-Team for halloween. he will make an excellent B.A. Baracus |
| 20:58.03 | languish | heh |
| 20:59.38 | jasta | i gotta find some way to temporarily die my hair gray/white. i'm gonna be hannibal |
| 20:59.56 | jasta | get a cigar and stuff |
| 21:00.11 | VickiWong | anyone know of an example of inflating xml for creating a menu that doesnt use apis.R? |
| 21:00.17 | jasta | man i love halloween as an adult. drink like crazy around a bunch of half dressed girls |
| 21:00.34 | jasta | VickiWong: what exactly are you trying to do? |
| 21:00.35 | VickiWong | jasta: -_- |
| 21:00.57 | VickiWong | jasta: trying to add menu buttons via xml |
| 21:01.02 | jasta | ok, so do it ;) |
| 21:01.22 | jasta | have you looked at ApiDemos? it does a lot of this. |
| 21:01.38 | VickiWong | yeah I looked up their example |
| 21:01.43 | VickiWong | it uses apis.R |
| 21:01.49 | stadlero | ApiDemos/.../app/MenuInflateFromXml.java |
| 21:02.01 | VickiWong | stadlero: thats the one im looking at :) |
| 21:02.19 | jasta | VickiWong: uhm, apis.R is just their _LOCAL_ packages R.java |
| 21:02.22 | VickiWong | uses R.menu.blah |
| 21:02.23 | jasta | you have one too, generated for you. |
| 21:02.44 | jasta | you would make a menu/foo.xml file, then R.java would get generated to include R.menu.foo |
| 21:02.51 | jasta | thta's how all resources work |
| 21:03.13 | VickiWong | jasta: as I figured, but it's giving me issues, although im using res/layout/menu.xml |
| 21:03.20 | jasta | well, don't do that. |
| 21:03.25 | dmoffett | RelativeLayout cellLayout = (RelativeLayout) inflater.inflate(R.layout.recording_cell, null); |
| 21:03.36 | dmoffett | Is that what you are looking for? |
| 21:04.35 | jasta | dmoffett: i think he's just struggling with the basic notion of how to interact with resources... |
| 21:04.46 | dmoffett | I see. |
| 21:05.36 | VickiWong | jasta: i put the xml file in the wrong folder *facepalm* |
| 21:06.08 | jasta | facepalm? |
| 21:06.14 | jasta | sounds like a drink |
| 21:06.33 | VickiWong | jasta: http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/facepalm.jpg |
| 21:07.06 | jasta | i'm so excited for this weekend |
| 21:07.11 | jasta | 100% android coding :) |
| 21:07.14 | VickiWong | jasta: oh and it's 'she' :) |
| 21:07.16 | jasta | no distractions |
| 21:07.24 | jasta | VickiWong: don't be ridiculous ;) |
| 21:07.47 | VickiWong | jasta: -_- |
| 21:08.26 | zhobbs | jasta: I can't wait for this weekend, 0% android programming!!! haven't taken a whole weekend off in a while |
| 21:08.41 | jasta | i took like 5 months off :) |
| 21:09.08 | jasta | i'm gearing up for the opposite :) |
| 21:09.38 | stadlero | By the way Vicki, the tool that compiles your resources doesn't actually care which directory they're in. Putting the layouts in res/layout and the menus in res/menu is just a convention. You could put everything in res/xml if you wanted. The difference would just be in the naming in your R file |
| 21:09.59 | stadlero | e.g. if your menu.xml file is in res/layout, you can probably find it in R.layout.foo |
| 21:10.13 | jasta | well, that's not entirely true is it? |
| 21:10.17 | stadlero | (Note, it's recommended to stick with the conventions, of course) |
| 21:10.18 | VickiWong | stadlero: but when i had menu.cml in res/layout i got errors, when i moved it to res/menu error vanished |
| 21:10.28 | jasta | for example, res/layout-land is magical |
| 21:10.33 | VickiWong | stadlero: ahh with editing the R file :) |
| 21:10.57 | jasta | VickiWong: don't edit R.java, it's autogenerated. |
| 21:11.04 | VickiWong | jasta: im not :) |
| 21:11.34 | stadlero | jasta: as a matter of fact you can also have menu-land and so forth |
| 21:11.52 | jasta | stadlero: but xml/land? :) |
| 21:12.16 | stadlero | xml-land, yep |
| 21:12.21 | jasta | really? that's pretty weird. |
| 21:12.28 | jasta | i guess it's useful though |
| 21:12.53 | jasta | i'm not a big fan of how that's organized though. very large projects will have just a ton of files all in one folder |
| 21:13.33 | stadlero | We |
| 21:13.40 | zhobbs | subfolders would be nice |
| 21:14.23 | zhobbs | actually, I would just be happy with a tool that would find/delete all my unused resources |
| 21:14.49 | jasta | zhobbs: won't eclipse technically do taht? wouldn't R.java build with warnings? :) |
| 21:17.16 | *** join/#android Terdhex1 (n=ENRIQUE@host-208-68-238-61.biznesshosting.net) |
| 21:19.56 | languish | shit |
| 21:20.07 | languish | looks like our g1's won't be delivered until after the weekend |
| 21:20.23 | unix_lappy | languish: try and schedule a pickup. |
| 21:20.30 | jeld | languish, of course, the release is set to 22nd :) |
| 21:20.37 | languish | unix_lappy, yeah, I don't think it's even in my state yet |
| 21:20.57 | languish | jeld, no.. quite few have received theirs already |
| 21:21.11 | languish | +a |
| 21:21.42 | jeld | heh, interesting |
| 21:21.52 | languish | I still don't get why some were shipped 3-day and others ground, when the option to upgrade shipping wasn't given during the order process |
| 21:22.18 | jeld | languish, yup |
| 21:22.20 | jeld | :( |
| 21:23.01 | jeld | and on top of that there was no option to give them alternative shipping address, now I have to wait for UPS to attempt to deliver before I can reroute it |
| 21:23.24 | languish | well that much I sort of understand |
| 21:23.48 | languish | I'm glad they didn't go by the tmo billing addy alone. |
| 21:24.04 | jeld | actually they did I think |
| 21:24.16 | languish | coulda ended up addressed to my PObox, which USB doesn't deliver to |
| 21:24.22 | languish | *UPS |
| 21:24.25 | jeld | that is why they are shipping to my home |
| 21:24.46 | languish | Ah, it did let me send it to my home |
| 21:24.56 | languish | since it rejected the pobox |
| 21:24.58 | languish | lol |
| 21:25.02 | languish | i guess that was the trick |
| 21:28.44 | *** join/#android meoblast001 (n=meoblast@dynamic-acs-24-239-93-241.zoominternet.net) |
| 21:32.03 | VickiWong | oh the android menu is it possible to have a toggle button? or just standard buttons |
| 21:32.17 | f00f- | how much is the unlimted data on t-mobile for the g1? |
| 21:32.42 | VickiWong | the only way i have found so far is to alternate the button to represent current state (as in swapping 'turned on' button with 'turned off' button |
| 21:32.43 | *** join/#android unix_infidel (n=blue@unaffiliated/unixinfidel/x-8383745) |
| 21:33.35 | muthu_ | VickiWong: is that a checkbox? |
| 21:34.29 | romainguy___ | VickiWong: yes you can have toggle buttons |
| 21:34.44 | *** join/#android duey (n=duey@203.96.223.40) |
| 21:35.00 | muthu_ | romainguy: you can have toggle buttons in menu? |
| 21:35.20 | Lenolium | f00f-: $25/mo with 400 txt messages, $35/mo with unlimited txt. |
| 21:35.28 | romainguy | the phone app has toggle buttons in its menu |
| 21:35.31 | romainguy | so, yes |
| 21:35.33 | Lenolium | f00f-: But that's on top of whatever plan you have. |
| 21:35.36 | muthu_ | hmm |
| 21:35.38 | f00f- | Lenolium: is it stated somewhere on their site? |
| 21:35.53 | muthu_ | can you load a toggle from xml |
| 21:35.55 | muthu_ | ? |
| 21:36.21 | unix_infidel | Lenolium: still cheaper than at&t, 55/month base. (*cough* + tax) |
| 21:36.35 | VickiWong | muthu: was hoping more for an 'on' 'off' type toggle |
| 21:36.55 | muthu_ | VickiWong: check box exists |
| 21:36.56 | romainguy | unix_infidel: I switched our 2 phones from Verizon/AT&T and T-Mobile is definitely cheaper for |
| 21:36.57 | romainguy | +us |
| 21:37.03 | muthu_ | but haven't seen any toggle button menu example |
| 21:37.04 | romainguy | and we get more stuff out of the plan |
| 21:37.13 | VickiWong | romainguy___: is there a sample of how to implement toggle buttons into the menu? i cant find one in the api demos |
| 21:37.20 | wastrel | wait the $25/mo is on top of another plan? |
| 21:38.09 | wastrel | i thought that was the plan |
| 21:38.09 | unix_infidel | romainguy: they roll out the 3g yet? |
| 21:38.09 | languish | f00f-, it was stated during the ordering process |
| 21:38.10 | f00f- | i pay 55/mo with att, for 450 anytime, unlmited N&W, M-M, data. would cost 65/mo at t-mo from what i can see |
| 21:38.12 | languish | nfi if it's info on the site yet |
| 21:38.25 | unix_infidel | f00f-: w/ the iphone? |
| 21:38.30 | f00f- | nope. with my N95 :D |
| 21:38.34 | romainguy | unix_infidel: yes, it's be on for a few weeks in SF |
| 21:38.51 | Lenolium | Yeah, $25/mo is on top of your voice plan. |
| 21:38.55 | languish | technically, you can get the data for only $20/mo on tmo |
| 21:39.03 | romainguy | languish: that's the one I have |
| 21:39.03 | languish | plus your voice plan |
| 21:39.09 | unix_infidel | f00f-: yea I think that's an apt point, the G1 doesnt compete with the iPhone. |
| 21:39.18 | f00f- | languish: what's the name of the $20 data plan? |
| 21:39.31 | languish | f00f-, it's just tmo's normal data plan |
| 21:39.41 | Lenolium | I used to have the $6/month data plan on my e61, and that worked just fine (just had some serious port restrictions) |
| 21:39.47 | f00f- | dont see it on their site |
| 21:39.47 | languish | they combined text and data plans for the g1 |
| 21:40.12 | romainguy | f00f-: T-Mobile Total Internet or something like this |
| 21:40.27 | romainguy | but it's for Sidekick and Blackberry |
| 21:40.32 | f00f- | romainguy: that one is $40 |
| 21:40.34 | romainguy | they probably won't let you get it with a G1 |
| 21:40.36 | f00f- | ah |
| 21:40.58 | languish | f00f- http://www.t-mobile.com/shop/addons/services/information.aspx?oscid=16110380-8E6A-42BF-B6DD-4806D8032CD0&PAsset=InternetEmail&tp=Svc_Tab_Smartphones&WT.mc_n=InternetandEmailTmophones_categorytile4WT.mc_t=OnsiteAd |
| 21:41.24 | languish | T-Mobile Total Internet Add-on |
| 21:41.24 | languish | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:41.35 | *** join/#android romainguy_ (n=gfx@72.14.224.1) |
| 21:41.42 | f00f- | nice, i will try to work that |
| 21:41.45 | f00f- | on top of voice plan |
| 21:41.51 | wastrel | so what's the voice plan? |
| 21:41.52 | unix_infidel | anyone now of a way to auto minimize panes in eclipse? |
| 21:42.06 | wastrel | meh |
| 21:42.15 | languish | I have the $39.99 1000 minutes + nights & weekends |
| 21:42.24 | languish | so my data will be on top of that |
| 21:42.47 | languish | one thing that annoys me about the g1, is how they cow-towed to the carriers and didn't make all messaging data. |
| 21:42.49 | languish | fuckers |
| 21:43.25 | languish | there's absolutely no reason beyond sheer greed to charge more for sms/txt |
| 21:43.44 | umdk1d3 | there kinda is |
| 21:43.51 | umdk1d3 | sms isnt internet |
| 21:44.10 | umdk1d3 | sms is in the signaling band of GSM, not IP based |
| 21:44.27 | romainguy_ | which means it works pretty much everywhere you can get a tiny bit of signal |
| 21:44.31 | wastrel | so $60/mo total for voice & data eh |
| 21:44.33 | jasta | yeah actually if anything SMS should be more expensive than it is; it's totally abused. |
| 21:44.43 | jasta | SMS should be replaced by an IP switched network. |
| 21:44.44 | VickiWong | romainguy: Is there anything in the api demo that uses a toggle in a menu? or is it just in the dialer on the G1 |
| 21:44.52 | languish | more expensive than $0.20/message? |
| 21:44.52 | jasta | or at least, should be made transparent to operate over either |
| 21:44.54 | f00f- | it will be |
| 21:44.54 | romainguy_ | VickiWong: I hav eno idea |
| 21:44.56 | unix_infidel | heh, as opposed to totally cheating with "fastview" |
| 21:45.11 | VickiWong | romainguy: thanks anyway :) at least now i know it is possible somehow |
| 21:45.20 | languish | sms rates are sheer rape |
| 21:45.22 | wastrel | my cable internet & phone is less than that |
| 21:45.34 | umdk1d3 | VickiWong: MenuItem.setCheckable(boolean checkable) maybe? |
| 21:45.45 | muthu_ | that gives a checkbox |
| 21:45.48 | muthu_ | not a toggle |
| 21:45.58 | languish | <wastrel> so $60/mo total for voice & data eh |
| 21:46.00 | languish | yeah x2 |
| 21:46.03 | languish | one for my wife |
| 21:46.04 | VickiWong | what muthu said ^ |
| 21:46.06 | languish | plus the taxes |
| 21:46.10 | romainguy_ | muthu: it probably shows a toggle in the main menu |
| 21:46.19 | muthu_ | oooh |
| 21:46.19 | romainguy_ | languish: no, because you can use the family plans |
| 21:46.20 | umdk1d3 | oh hmm :/ |
| 21:46.38 | romainguy_ | languish: $59 for 2 lines with unlimited nights & weekends + 5 unlimited numbers per line |
| 21:46.39 | languish | romainguy, we get more minutes per dollar not using the family plan |
| 21:47.55 | languish | we use about 850mins/month on average, and like having the extra 150 minutes in case we have an ecessive month |
| 21:47.57 | languish | each |
| 21:48.12 | languish | that's primetime minutes, not nights/weekends |
| 21:48.36 | unix_infidel | anyone on my earlier question? auto-minimize panels in eclipse? |
| 21:48.46 | languish | if tmo would drop nights back to 7pm like it was when we first signed up, it would be a different story |
| 21:49.04 | jasta | i should probably pay attention to this |
| 21:49.09 | jasta | because ill be a brand new t-mobile customer |
| 21:49.21 | jasta | AT&T pricing seems rpetty good, but i bet T-Mobile's is gonna be better so that's nice |
| 21:49.29 | languish | heh |
| 21:49.47 | jasta | with AT&T I get 900 minutes + rollover + N/WE for $60/mo, with $30/mo for data+sms |
| 21:49.51 | languish | there are tradeoffs |
| 21:50.08 | languish | att's connectivity is better |
| 21:50.43 | romainguy_ | depends where |
| 21:50.50 | romainguy_ | T-Mobile was surprisingly better for me here |
| 21:50.55 | languish | true |
| 21:51.21 | languish | in my neighborhood, tmo's connectivity is better, but alnost everywhere else I go, att is better |
| 21:51.37 | languish | also, tmo's signal sucks indoors in most places in manhattan |
| 21:51.39 | umdk1d3 | in urban areas there might be a difference, but in most rural areas everyone uses the same towers :/ |
| 21:51.52 | languish | it's not just about the towers |
| 21:52.09 | languish | it's about how they modulate the signal and all this other crap.. how well it penetrates walls |
| 21:53.23 | languish | I can't get tmo signal in my park avenue lawyers office, but att and verizon work just fine there |
| 21:53.50 | languish | when I go there, they hand me an office phone during the time I'm there |
| 21:54.21 | umdk1d3 | right, thats in an urban area tho |
| 21:54.36 | languish | it's new york city |
| 21:54.40 | languish | 10 million people |
| 21:54.51 | languish | you think they'd work better indoors by now |
| 21:55.24 | umdk1d3 | the majority of the country is serviced by typically just one GSM provider, and the non-native carriers have roaming agreements |
| 21:55.49 | languish | nod |
| 21:55.49 | *** join/#android andyross (n=andy@static-71-245-107-194.ptldor.fios.verizon.net) |
| 21:55.49 | languish | "not my problem" except that it is |
| 21:55.49 | f00f- | umdk1d3: hey dude.. congrats on the latest press about your itunes thing ;) |
| 21:55.57 | JoeAFK | I need to get a roaming agreement with my gf |
| 21:56.06 | umdk1d3 | oh thanks lol, was happy it actually worked for him |
| 21:56.10 | muthu_ | powercut at 3am |
| 21:56.19 | languish | JoeAFK, you'll likely need to upgrade your model for that |
| 21:56.31 | umdk1d3 | lol @ JoeAFK |
| 21:56.54 | JoeAFK | hah |
| 21:56.59 | languish | :) |
| 22:01.00 | *** join/#android zoniq (n=sk@87.246.64.2) |
| 22:01.01 | taaz | umdk1d3: i just gave up on the remote app. didn't feel like debugging network crap. |
| 22:01.43 | umdk1d3 | taaz: you have a device? |
| 22:01.49 | taaz | i probably just missed the itunes "Allow Android apps" checkbox |
| 22:01.58 | taaz | nope |
| 22:02.13 | umdk1d3 | it should be a *lot* easier on the real device |
| 22:02.23 | taaz | yeah. i'll try again then. |
| 22:03.03 | romainguy_ | umdk1d3: it is |
| 22:03.07 | languish | if anything ruins android, it'll be the carriers :| |
| 22:05.53 | muthu_ | agree |
| 22:06.10 | muthu_ | carriers will piss off the users |
| 22:06.30 | JoeAFK | I blame carriers for the state of all handsets in general |
| 22:08.53 | languish | I'm glad the g1 doesn't have a physical sliding lock switch |
| 22:09.06 | languish | I always forget about the damn thing on the zune |
| 22:09.22 | languish | sometimes it gets slid to lock while the device is off |
| 22:09.46 | languish | takes me a minute to remember the damn switch, and not that the zine is dead |
| 22:09.50 | languish | *zune |
| 22:10.14 | languish | yes, sometimes, I cam an idiot. that's a given |
| 22:12.59 | languish | I'm curious to see how well my US G1 will perform in the .uk |
| 22:13.27 | JoeAFK | in terms of cellphone usage? |
| 22:13.31 | JoeAFK | Is it quadband? |
| 22:13.39 | jasta | it's quad GSM, dual UMTS |
| 22:13.51 | jasta | UMTS2100 which is standard across most of Europe |
| 22:14.06 | languish | well, it supports both HSUPA and HSDPA |
| 22:15.01 | languish | so I'd like to see how my connectivity will be, if it's a seemless transition |
| 22:15.30 | jasta | hehe, ive been using my app (through the emu) to listen to music at work for weeks now |
| 22:15.33 | jasta | it's so great :) |
| 22:15.46 | languish | :) |
| 22:16.22 | jasta | reinforces how much nicer my approach is than traditional media players |
| 22:16.28 | languish | lol |
| 22:16.31 | jasta | got some new album yesterday even, came into work, and bam :) |
| 22:16.40 | JoeAFK | can i ask what your app is called jasta? |
| 22:16.48 | jasta | JoeAFK: http://five.googlecode.com |
| 22:16.53 | JoeAFK | thanks |
| 22:16.54 | languish | the tmo internal issues with bandwidth usage worries me |
| 22:17.04 | jasta | JoeAFK: the screenshots there are outdated, i'm gonna update them this weekend |
| 22:17.16 | JoeAFK | ah k |
| 22:17.57 | languish | streaming music all day, most of the week, plus my regular data usage, plus some streaming video, plus eventually some RDP action... |
| 22:18.17 | JoeAFK | internal issues? |
| 22:18.23 | languish | without any p2p traffic or "abuse" just regular usage |
| 22:18.37 | jasta | languish: oh im sure there will be some contention... |
| 22:18.47 | languish | JoeAFK, yeah, they have a stick up their asses about "regular" data usage in areas like mine |
| 22:18.49 | jasta | but thats impossible to predict |
| 22:19.15 | JoeAFK | I'm already capped on my home broadband |
| 22:19.21 | languish | their whole 1Gb data use BS before is an obvious indicator of it |
| 22:19.27 | f00f- | issues list link' on main page is broekn jasta |
| 22:19.36 | JoeAFK | ironic |
| 22:19.40 | jasta | f00f-: i just noticed that actually |
| 22:19.44 | jasta | fixed it right as you typed that |
| 22:19.52 | languish | jasta, it's t-mobile, it's quite easy to predict. |
| 22:19.53 | *** join/#android commonsguy (n=chatzill@70.44.71.92.res-cmts.sm.ptd.net) |
| 22:20.10 | languish | I'll hit 2.5 Gb and my service will die |
| 22:20.14 | jasta | f00f-: just links to the projects Issues tab th |
| 22:20.15 | jasta | tho* |
| 22:20.44 | JoeAFK | Wont they rape you with charges over limit first languish? Even if you have an unlimited plan? |
| 22:20.48 | languish | I mean, casual all day use will hit about 1gb inside 10 days |
| 22:20.54 | languish | JoeAFK, no |
| 22:21.06 | jasta | JoeAFK: that isn't in the contract. |
| 22:21.09 | jasta | (so no) |
| 22:21.11 | languish | JoeAFK, they'll start by limiting the data rate to 50KB |
| 22:21.26 | languish | everything will get dial-up slow |
| 22:21.49 | jasta | if i get my G1 on Wed, i will hit that by Wed night ;) |
| 22:21.55 | languish | heh |
| 22:21.59 | jasta | i won't be able to put the stupid thing down i'm sure |
| 22:22.12 | languish | yeah, so when your connectivity turns to shit, you'll know why |
| 22:22.15 | languish | rather |
| 22:22.20 | languish | your transfer rate |
| 22:22.49 | jasta | f00f-: there are a lot, that's the important part ;) |
| 22:22.56 | unix_lappy | well this isnt a blackberry or an iphone or one of those heavily mass marketed devices. |
| 22:22.57 | languish | tmo's always been very good about moderate use.. they'll let you get away with all kinds of shit under moderate bandwidth use |
| 22:23.00 | unix_lappy | this is a pretty geeky device. |
| 22:23.09 | languish | but they're total nazi's with "regular" data usage |
| 22:23.35 | languish | and they still have the outdated concepts about what data use should be |
| 22:25.08 | f00f- | yeah i'm looking at them jasta. no new commiters eh? |
| 22:25.12 | *** join/#android tonyacunar (n=joseacun@c-76-16-208-53.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 22:25.17 | jasta | f00f-: unfortunately, no. :\ |
| 22:25.32 | *** join/#android matt_c (n=mcroydon@137.147.45.66.cm.sunflower.com) |
| 22:25.33 | jasta | there are a few people who have expressed some interest and are pining through the code |
| 22:25.38 | jasta | but so far no one has contributed directly |
| 22:25.53 | jasta | that said, i'm gonna try a little PR on Monday to fix that |
| 22:26.21 | *** join/#android romainguy__ (n=gfx@72.14.224.1) |
| 22:26.22 | jasta | record a new video after this weekend when i've got some issues ironed out, and post it to planetandroid.com |
| 22:26.44 | f00f- | yeah a video would be swell |
| 22:26.56 | jasta | gonna try to sell the idea to get some developers interested in helping me tidy up for 1.0 |
| 22:27.13 | jasta | the issues remaining represent about 3 months worth of work for me personally. with a larger team, i could see it happening inside of 2 months. |
| 22:29.05 | f00f- | not bad, but are the core media player functions usable? |
| 22:29.11 | jasta | absolutely |
| 22:29.13 | f00f- | if you just had local files |
| 22:29.14 | f00f- | ok |
| 22:29.16 | jasta | fully tested on real hardware |
| 22:29.29 | jasta | oh no, the mediaplayer stuff works for even stream/caching too |
| 22:29.35 | jasta | the basic concept here is totally working |
| 22:29.44 | f00f- | i'd say that's beta quality then :D |
| 22:29.45 | jasta | you install a server, it scans crap, you sync with it, then you get all your music streaming to you |
| 22:29.56 | taaz | does ogg streaming work? |
| 22:30.00 | jasta | the issue is that there are a lot of little dark corners about "oops, doesn't do this." :) |
| 22:30.07 | jasta | taaz: no, because of the fucking piece of crap MediaPlayer |
| 22:30.19 | jasta | http://code.google.com/p/five/issues/detail?id=31 |
| 22:30.23 | taaz | unfortunate that my entire music collection is in ogg eh? |
| 22:30.35 | jasta | taaz: well, the server is going to include a [lame] work-around. |
| 22:30.46 | jasta | see that issue :) |
| 22:31.46 | jasta | f00f-: for instance, i am just now working on getting playlist synchronization done :) |
| 22:31.46 | languish | *sigh* |
| 22:32.02 | jasta | it'll be finsihed this weekend for sure. that's my highest priority task right now |
| 22:32.06 | languish | I'm really going to have to carry some kind of flashlight/led light with my g1 |
| 22:32.15 | jasta | ? |
| 22:32.17 | languish | just to take pictures |
| 22:32.33 | jasta | every mobile phone ive ever used is bad at that |
| 22:32.39 | languish | led spotlight belt buckle :/ |
| 22:32.56 | f00f- | ah cool |
| 22:32.58 | jasta | f00f-: my StreamMediaPlayer class is uber. works around lots of MediaPlayer issues... |
| 22:33.06 | languish | jasta, point being.. the other device I wanted, the touch pro.. from the same manufacturer.. has an led light |
| 22:33.13 | f00f- | jasta btw did you ever find an elegant solution to cancelling active http requests using HttpClient ? |
| 22:33.22 | languish | pisses me off they didn't include it |
| 22:33.30 | jasta | f00f-: yes, i found it it's just that the HttpCore version included with Android at the time (M5) was busted. |
| 22:33.42 | jasta | the version in 0.9r1 and 1.0r1 is not busted, and so the solution works without any modification. |
| 22:33.50 | jasta | f00f-: i use it all over Five and other projects... |
| 22:34.11 | jasta | in fact, my LocalHttpServer hack to do the streaming synchronizes all its threads just to make sure :) |
| 22:34.22 | f00f- | hehe |
| 22:34.26 | languish | as long as I can watch my 350mb eztv .avi's |
| 22:34.32 | languish | then I'll be ok |
| 22:34.37 | languish | :\ |
| 22:35.39 | muthu_ | jasta: will 5 work as a regular media player? |
| 22:36.05 | jasta | yes |
| 22:36.22 | jasta | forgot to add that issue actually, 1 sec |
| 22:36.29 | languish | lol |
| 22:36.50 | jasta | f00f-: i mean synchronizes as in, when you say shutdown/abort, it waits for the thread to die before returning to you. so any issues with the graceful cleanup would be noticed in the UI |
| 22:36.50 | languish | muthu you said "will" not "does" :) |
| 22:37.13 | jasta | oh wait no, i do have that issue :) |
| 22:37.20 | jasta | http://code.google.com/p/five/issues/detail?id=36 |
| 22:37.20 | jasta | :) |
| 22:37.25 | languish | lol |
| 22:37.25 | muthu_ | cool |
| 22:37.43 | languish | microsd card access |
| 22:37.50 | jasta | every issue listed there Medium or higher is release critical for 1.0... |
| 22:37.50 | languish | and away! |
| 22:38.19 | languish | until it breaks with some android firmware update :/ |
| 22:38.29 | languish | I'm so looking forward to those |
| 22:38.55 | languish | I don't think my wife groks that concept |
| 22:39.25 | romainguy__ | languish: why would it break? |
| 22:39.34 | romainguy__ | if you stick to public APIs... :) |
| 22:39.35 | languish | romainguy, nature of the beast |
| 22:41.51 | languish | I know googles working hard to avoid that |
| 22:42.03 | languish | they'll likely do a better job than apple did |
| 22:42.07 | languish | but it'll happen |
| 22:43.06 | *** part/#android jt436 (n=jtomlins@sdserver66.mforma.com) |
| 22:46.13 | jasta | romainguy__: well, at some point you will find flaws in your API... |
| 22:46.27 | romainguy__ | and we'll deal with them |
| 22:46.31 | romainguy__ | we won't break binary compatibility |
| 22:46.51 | languish | we need a quote bot in here |
| 22:46.53 | languish | lol |
| 22:47.01 | romainguy__ | well unless the said API can destroy the universe :) |
| 22:47.05 | jasta | i guess i'm talking out of my ass. i don't know much about how java maintains binary compat. adding method signatures i assume does not disrupt that? |
| 22:47.08 | languish | :) |
| 22:47.14 | romainguy__ | no it doesn't |
| 22:47.26 | romainguy__ | for instance, a Java 1.0.2 app still works on Java SE 1.6 without recompiling |
| 22:47.36 | romainguy__ | now maybe the behavior is a little different |
| 22:47.40 | romainguy__ | but the binaries are not broken :) |
| 22:47.50 | jasta | interesting, yeah i guess that would be easy to provide... |
| 22:47.53 | muthu | you can't madly change interfaces (contracts) though |
| 22:47.56 | romainguy__ | we might break source compatibility |
| 22:47.59 | romainguy__ | but not binary compatibility |
| 22:48.17 | romainguy__ | muthu: you can, it only breaks source compatibility, not binary compatibility |
| 22:48.25 | romainguy__ | (as long as you don't call the new methods on old implementers) |
| 22:48.26 | jasta | romainguy__: i always wondered how you would go about building your project to suit older versions of things... |
| 22:48.39 | jasta | i don't know what techniques are available in general for Java developers |
| 22:48.40 | muthu | romainguy: right |
| 22:49.08 | romainguy__ | jasta: dynamic class loading (doesn't work for now), factories based on platform version number of reflection |
| 22:49.19 | romainguy__ | or you just stop supporting old versions of the platform |
| 22:49.23 | jasta | ahh, right. that makes sense. |
| 22:49.39 | jasta | does that introduce significant performance overhead in most VMs? |
| 22:49.49 | romainguy__ | the use of factories is common in Java SE desktop apps to support Linux/Windows/MacOSX |
| 22:49.54 | romainguy__ | reflection? yes |
| 22:50.01 | romainguy__ | fadden can tell you all about it :p |
| 22:50.18 | jasta | why? what does fadden work on? |
| 22:50.30 | romainguy__ | Android stuff |
| 22:50.48 | jasta | but what specifically can he tell me about? :) |
| 22:50.56 | romainguy__ | reflection |
| 22:51.13 | romainguy__ | fadden: *poke* |
| 22:52.45 | jasta | what sort of techniques are there to limit this performance overhead? like what if the MediaPlayer class gets all kinds of new features that i want to utilize, but poor old 1.0 users should still be supported with my lame hacks for a little while |
| 22:53.01 | jasta | i wouldn't want significant performance overhead interacting with it just to support backwards compat... |
| 22:53.31 | romainguy__ | I like a factory approach in this case |
| 22:53.32 | dmoffett | Do what apple does make them buy new hardware. :-) |
| 22:53.40 | muthu_ | jasta: the platform takes care of backwards compat |
| 22:54.50 | jasta | romainguy__: do you have any examples of something like this? i'd like to look. |
| 22:55.47 | jasta | romainguy__: i haven't been writing Java for long so admittedly i don't know much about solutions to practical issues like this |
| 22:56.08 | romainguy__ | it's nothing really complex |
| 22:56.17 | romainguy__ | you just create a base class or interface with your own API |
| 22:56.21 | romainguy__ | then two implementations |
| 22:56.30 | romainguy__ | one for Android 1.0, one for Android 1.1 |
| 22:56.45 | romainguy__ | and you just instantiate one of the two depending on the platform version |
| 22:56.52 | romainguy__ | so it adds a layer |
| 22:56.55 | jasta | but that would be through reflection, yes? |
| 22:56.58 | romainguy__ | no |
| 22:57.18 | romainguy__ | let's say you have a StreamMediaPlayer interface |
| 22:57.26 | jasta | oh i see what you mean. because you're building an APK with newer method signatures but because android remains backwards compat it won't be an issue |
| 22:57.34 | romainguy__ | yes |
| 22:57.57 | romainguy__ | as long as you don't executed the newer code on old versions of the platform, everything's fine |
| 22:58.01 | jasta | so you've just got some extra crufty code that will flip out at runtime if the code path runs on Android 1.0, but you guarantee it wont. ok, that's pretty elegant. |
| 22:58.08 | romainguy__ | unless dalvik's verifier does stuff with it |
| 22:58.11 | romainguy__ | again fadden would know |
| 23:00.58 | muthu_ | 5am |
| 23:01.10 | muthu_ | 4:31am |
| 23:02.26 | jasta | a lot of my MediaPlayer issues havent been responded to. i wonder what's going on there :) |
| 23:02.49 | jasta | i'm hearing from some folks that the MediaPlayer class internally is in really, really bad shape hehe |
| 23:05.23 | f00f- | muthu is doign a major release next week? |
| 23:05.37 | muthu_ | 22 |
| 23:05.46 | jasta | major release of what? |
| 23:05.49 | muthu_ | lot of things broken as of now |
| 23:10.03 | Disconnect | for the record, i hate the layout tool. or possibly the layout xml. either way, turning the paper map into the code is not working for me :) |
| 23:10.13 | Disconnect | oh but i finally got tracking info. my g1 is in louisville. |
| 23:10.17 | Disconnect | eta tues :( |
| 23:11.12 | jasta | Disconnect: i haven't even loaded that thing up yet hehe |
| 23:11.37 | Disconnect | heh |
| 23:11.44 | jasta | no really, i haven't even seen what it looks like :) |
| 23:11.45 | Disconnect | when its not eating all my ram its fairly useful. |
| 23:11.56 | jasta | i edit all my XML through vim because Eclipse drove me mad |
| 23:11.58 | Lenolium | Disconnect: Mine's shipping from the same place as yours, same ETA for arrivial. |
| 23:12.25 | jasta | that reminds me, i should get an order in for one of those HTC ExtUSB dongle thingies |
| 23:12.26 | Disconnect | mine is going to wash dc.. (basically) |
| 23:12.30 | jasta | so i can actually listen to music |
| 23:12.46 | Disconnect | yah :( buddy of mine was a huge htc fan for years. and 3 weeks ago he donated all his old adapters and phones. doh! |
| 23:13.02 | jasta | hey, does the G1 have a decently loud speaker so you could just listen to music with it sitting on your desk? |
| 23:13.10 | romainguy__ | didn't T-Mobile said they would put the adapter with the G1 |
| 23:13.11 | Disconnect | jasta: according to reviews, sorta. |
| 23:13.13 | romainguy__ | but not in the first batch? |
| 23:13.16 | Disconnect | romainguy__: right |
| 23:13.16 | jasta | Disconnect: ? |
| 23:13.22 | romainguy__ | jasta: yes, it's loud |
| 23:13.29 | romainguy__ | it's actually the loudest phone speaker I've heard |
| 23:13.32 | Disconnect | jasta: yes, loud enough to listen. no, not on the desk - muffles it too much. |
| 23:13.40 | jasta | ahh |
| 23:13.51 | romainguy__ | Disconnect: flip it the other way :) |
| 23:13.55 | jasta | what if you just flip the phone over? :) isnt the speaker on the bottom back? |
| 23:13.57 | Disconnect | eh |
| 23:13.58 | Disconnect | heh |
| 23:14.05 | jasta | looks at romain |
| 23:14.05 | romainguy__ | but it depends on your environment I guess |
| 23:14.11 | romainguy__ | I don't find it too muffled on my desk |
| 23:14.11 | Disconnect | i am looking forward to the itunes/amarok remotes mostly. |
| 23:14.34 | jasta | i would like to see a nice general purpose home automation framework integrated |
| 23:14.37 | Disconnect | but first, its beer oclock before i regroup on this xml mess. |
| 23:14.46 | jasta | a really slick home remote, music, lights, etc |
| 23:15.27 | jasta | of course it probably wont be open source, and itll cost $20, and won't support anything i use. |
| 23:15.30 | jasta | Sigh. :) |
| 23:15.31 | JoeAFK | homemade rave party? |
| 23:15.47 | languish | Ahs anyone that's been beta testing the g1's done a performance comparison with different microSD cards? |
| 23:16.18 | jasta | languish: i was wondering this as well. i was cautioned by my roommate not to get a poor performing storage card, but he didnt have much useful info on how to make sure you get a good one |
| 23:16.43 | languish | jasta, start by going with a known name brand and class 6 or class 8 |
| 23:16.48 | romainguy | I just grabbed a SanDisk 8 GB |
| 23:16.50 | romainguy | works fine |
| 23:16.52 | andyross | Not sure, but isn't SD clocked from the host? Are different manufacturer's cards even allowed to be different speeds? |
| 23:17.02 | languish | romainguy, what class is it? |
| 23:17.31 | romainguy | no idea :) |
| 23:17.39 | jasta | yeah i didnt know that was even a metric of sd cards? |
| 23:17.49 | ttuttle | Alright, this is going in version control. |
| 23:17.50 | romainguy | and given what I do with it that doesn't really matter |
| 23:17.53 | ttuttle | I just blew away one of my files. :-( |
| 23:18.03 | languish | andyross, seems to be a difference between the responsiveness of a device, and the rated 'speed" of i/o |
| 23:18.16 | jasta | romainguy__: it will matter a lot for my app, because of the way i work around some mediaplayer issues i abuse the SD card a bit |
| 23:18.56 | andyross | But "responsiveness" isn't an electrical parameter. Like I said, not being an expert: I believe SD is hard-clocked from the host. There isn't a query/response kind of thing where a device could add its own delays. I think. |
| 23:19.21 | languish | here'sd an example... http://www.symbian-guru.com/welcome/2008/09/sandisk-ultra-8gb-microsd-better.html |
| 23:19.56 | languish | I've heard this from tech reviewers I know here in NY a number of times |
| 23:20.31 | languish | but no one's really gone out on a limb to compare decisively, and most don't even know where to start because of the lack of oversight on SD card manufacturing |
| 23:20.52 | andyross | Note that there are different revs of the standard (SDHC, etc...) that specify different speeds, of course. Somewhere there's a datasheet that will answer this conclusively. |
| 23:21.50 | languish | andyross, I think it's more complicated than that |
| 23:22.14 | languish | I believe it's an issue of the individual devices SD slot/controller implimentation |
| 23:22.37 | languish | because the same card, on different devices, appears to have more or less impact, based on which device |
| 23:22.39 | andyross | The controller, yes. But not the card. |
| 23:23.11 | romainguy | languish: the URL you posted, that's the card I use |
| 23:23.25 | languish | Well, as there's no manufacturing oversight for SD cards, we can end up getting class 6 labled cards, that are actually class 2/4 |
| 23:23.28 | romainguy | but which class... |
| 23:23.55 | romainguy | ah wait |
| 23:23.58 | romainguy | it's a class 8 |
| 23:24.09 | languish | so you have the best current card |
| 23:24.10 | ttuttle | Wait, they make class 8? |
| 23:24.12 | languish | yes |
| 23:24.13 | ttuttle | Mine's only a class 4 :-( |
| 23:24.22 | ttuttle | I mean, it should work fine, but... |
| 23:24.42 | romainguy | you can get class 2 for very cheap too :) |
| 23:24.47 | ttuttle | romainguy: Oh yeah. |
| 23:25.14 | languish | yeah, from what I've seen, based on what your task is.. a lesser performing card causes obvious delays in the interaction with the device |
| 23:26.22 | languish | romainguy, would you have the full part number from the packaging handy for that card? |
| 23:26.34 | languish | ..or at your leisure |
| 23:26.45 | romainguy__ | I don't have the packaging |
| 23:26.49 | languish | nod |
| 23:27.07 | romainguy__ | argh |
| 23:27.13 | romainguy__ | tunewiki is putting images on the sdcard |
| 23:27.20 | romainguy__ | that are picked up by the media scanner |
| 23:27.23 | romainguy__ | booooo TuneWiki |
| 23:27.26 | languish | o.O |
| 23:31.35 | umdk1d3 | romainguy__: isnt that where you're caching your book covers tho? :P |
| 23:32.58 | romainguy__ | yes |
| 23:33.07 | romainguy__ | but I made sure they would not be picked up by the media scanner |
| 23:33.12 | romainguy__ | you just need to remove the file extension |
| 23:33.20 | romainguy__ | or name the directory .something |
| 23:33.26 | romainguy__ | or add a special empty file in the directory |
| 23:33.51 | umdk1d3 | flails arms--and where is this documented? :P |
| 23:34.00 | umdk1d3 | lol |
| 23:34.09 | romainguy__ | don't ask questions :) |
| 23:34.20 | Disconnect | empty file is the Right Answer (of those listed) but yah, thats a huge issue on maemo also - its impossible to tell the media indexer not to index dirs |
| 23:34.22 | JoeAFK | :O |
| 23:34.46 | f00f- | touch .noindex <-- should be as easy as that |
| 23:34.55 | romainguy__ | here you go |
| 23:35.27 | romainguy__ | Disconnect: I actually like the no file extension approach |
| 23:36.25 | Disconnect | yuck. file extensions exist by common convention to id filetypes.. why break that, esp to prevent an indexer from indexing stuff thats none of it's business anyway? |
| 23:36.28 | umdk1d3 | well romainguy__ that prevents easy file identification tho |
| 23:37.07 | romainguy__ | umdk1d3: and I'm fine with it :) |
| 23:37.31 | romainguy__ | Disconnect: because it's just a cache so there's no reason to identify the files in there |
| 23:37.47 | Disconnect | how often does it expire? |
| 23:38.13 | romainguy__ | it doesn't for now |
| 23:41.06 | VickiWong | does Android access current date/time same way as any Java app? |
| 23:42.29 | VickiWong | sorry that was worded wrongly.. |
| 23:42.42 | VickiWong | can I access current date/time in my android app the same way as any Java app? |
| 23:43.38 | commonsguy | if you mean by new Date() and kin, yes |
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| 23:44.47 | VickiWong | commonsguy: great :) |
| 23:45.22 | VickiWong | so tricky trying to code in J2ME one day and in Android the next... |
| 23:45.24 | VickiWong | for me anyway |
| 23:45.29 | Disconnect | ok this is seriously not funny. eclipse takes up 2+ gigs of ram because i am typing into the xml entry in the layout editor. |
| 23:45.55 | Disconnect | VickiWong: just do j2me and let the applet runner translate :) |
| 23:46.20 | commonsguy | VickiWong: I did find I needed to set the timezone in the emulator via -timezone "America/New_York", otherwise it seemed to default to UTC |
| 23:46.44 | VickiWong | commonsguy: thanks for the tip :) |
| 23:46.57 | VickiWong | Disconnect: meh thats not at 100% from what i remember |
| 23:47.10 | Disconnect | enough for opera mini, beyond that i dunno |
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| 23:51.37 | Disconnect | any good cheat sheet for the various layout types? (found the layouts list, looking for one that lists all the types with 1-liner summaries) |
| 23:54.38 | Disconnect | actually.. i might be looking for a listview. basic drop-down list selector..? |
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