| 00:01.42 | umdk1d3 | does ACCESS_FINE_LOCATION also imply ACCESS_COARSE_LOCATION as a subset? |
| 00:10.39 | languish | hmm |
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| 00:11.14 | languish | T-Mobile is saying that anyone having downloaded an app prior to Oct 20th, will have to re-download all their apps. |
| 00:11.34 | languish | I wonder how that's going to work for apps that contain data/configurations |
| 00:11.44 | languish | And, if this will occur again in the future |
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| 00:12.26 | languish | Sounds like something app devs should keep in mind, and work to protect configurations and user data through these updates. |
| 00:12.55 | languish | I know, not the update on the 20th, but potential future updates. |
| 00:17.37 | languish | DarkriftX |
| 00:17.44 | languish | check this out .. http://forums.t-mobile.com/tmbl/board/message?board.id=87&thread.id=788 |
| 00:17.46 | DarkriftX | sup |
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| 00:26.38 | jasta | i feel bad for the support team that is going to have to field customer questions on the G1 :) |
| 00:26.54 | jasta | *shudder* |
| 00:27.16 | Dougie187 | how come? |
| 00:27.16 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 00:28.04 | DarkriftX | languish, thx, now i know for sure that one will install i can use that as a test file on my site once i find someone with a g1 |
| 00:29.43 | languish | :) |
| 00:31.10 | DarkriftX | im thinking all donwloads will have to be direct links instead of dynamic links but i hope not |
| 00:31.24 | DarkriftX | in firefox, the dialog is different for both types of dl links |
| 00:31.35 | DarkriftX | one gives me save as or run, other just gives save |
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| 00:35.56 | umdk1d3 | interesting @ languish |
| 00:36.03 | umdk1d3 | yea, and its coming from a tmob person |
| 00:36.07 | umdk1d3 | "Looks like an update to the Andoid Market is coming on the 20th. I'm not aware of the changes exactly, but it will require that you re-download any applications you may have downloaded before that point. " |
| 00:36.15 | umdk1d3 | not sure how they are planning to roll that out |
| 00:44.53 | romainguy | umdk1d3: probably because of the change of the keys used by apps so far |
| 00:46.06 | DarkriftX | Any G1 users have 3 minutes they could spare me? I need help testing some links on my site to make sure they will work to install directly from the devices browser. |
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| 01:43.40 | DarkriftX | can adb install be done with a url? |
| 01:49.26 | gambler | no |
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| 02:00.28 | After_Math | Does anyone know how I can set my environment to make Android apps under Linux without using a IDE like Eclipse. |
| 02:01.22 | jasta | yes |
| 02:01.47 | wastrel | it's in the hello world tutorial iirc |
| 02:01.48 | jasta | you basically just need to get a build environment going. android includes activitycreator which makes an ant build environment |
| 02:02.02 | gambler | there is also a vi plugin for eclipse code complete |
| 02:02.05 | jasta | i use maven with the masa plugin, however. it's more robust if you ask me |
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| 02:03.35 | After_Math | gambler, yes I have that with my Eclipse, I just think it would be a better learning experience doing it all from scratch |
| 02:03.53 | jasta | After_Math: well you have your answer. so go :) |
| 02:03.54 | After_Math | jasta, how exactly would I do that? |
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| 02:04.12 | jasta | After_Math: the android docs will show you how to get started with activitycreator |
| 02:04.32 | jasta | for maven, well, read their docs too. are you familiar with java development at all? |
| 02:04.49 | After_Math | jasta, ok thanks |
| 02:05.01 | jasta | activitycreator btw is just a script that stubs out a skeleton project with an Ant build script and some other junk. |
| 02:07.51 | After_Math | kind of foreign to me still but I will read up on activitycreator :P |
| 02:08.25 | jasta | there's very little special about android development when compared to other types of java-based projects |
| 02:08.43 | jasta | so if you aren't familiar with java, ant, etc that is almost certainly why it feels so strange to you |
| 02:09.09 | jasta | the android bits are just putting togethre the class files into an apk and the resource management stuff |
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| 02:10.41 | umdk1d3 | hmm is there a fast way of adding transparency to a jpg on the device? |
| 02:10.56 | umdk1d3 | like, everything ~5 away from white |
| 02:12.09 | wastrel | gambler: vi plugin for eclipse? |
| 02:12.34 | romainguy | umdk1d3: ? |
| 02:13.09 | umdk1d3 | well it might be simpler than that |
| 02:13.21 | umdk1d3 | i have images coming in that at a fixed aspect ratio (say 100x100) |
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| 02:13.50 | umdk1d3 | but they are white-letterboxed when the original image is, say 80x100 |
| 02:13.51 | gambler | wastrel, google eclim and vimplugin - one of those is what you want |
| 02:14.19 | umdk1d3 | might be easy enough to step into the image from all sides |
| 02:14.24 | umdk1d3 | until i hit something non-white |
| 02:14.31 | umdk1d3 | then assume that as a cropping boundary |
| 02:14.33 | umdk1d3 | yay! =D |
| 02:17.12 | After_Math | jasta, so ant is from apache? I just found this site https://www.datasprings.com/Resources/ArticlesInformation/AndroidSDKExampleApplicationSampleCode/tabid/910/language/en-US/Default.aspx |
| 02:17.34 | jasta | go to Android's documentation and read their getting start info. |
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| 02:18.13 | SamSerious_ | wow there is a android channel too :O |
| 02:18.20 | jasta | amazing |
| 02:18.24 | SamSerious_ | cool :D |
| 02:18.31 | SamSerious_ | I was just checking :p |
| 02:19.09 | After_Math | jasta, ok |
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| 02:19.50 | jasta | hey dougie |
| 02:19.53 | SamSerious_ | Whats 'Four'? as in topic.. |
| 02:20.01 | jasta | Dougie187: you have those StarCraft videos too? I'd like to check them out :) |
| 02:20.10 | Dougie187 | lemme see |
| 02:20.10 | jasta | SamSerious_: countdown to handset availability |
| 02:20.10 | Dougie187 | one sec |
| 02:20.28 | SamSerious_ | Ha.. Can't wait.. >.< |
| 02:20.35 | Dougie187 | I can get them, but be prepared, they are not as entertaining as the d3 ones. |
| 02:20.44 | jasta | hehe |
| 02:20.46 | jasta | i can handle it |
| 02:20.48 | Dougie187 | ok |
| 02:21.06 | SamSerious_ | Is it gonna be available at store on 22nd? |
| 02:21.14 | jasta | thats the idea |
| 02:22.16 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 02:22.17 | SamSerious_ | Is there any irc client for android? It would be great.. :) |
| 02:22.29 | Dougie187 | I don't remember reading it in the details. |
| 02:22.33 | Dougie187 | someone might write one though |
| 02:22.39 | jasta | im sure someone has |
| 02:22.41 | Dougie187 | but irc on android might be kinda irritating. |
| 02:22.46 | SamSerious_ | why? |
| 02:22.56 | jasta | SamSerious_: just google around, i bet you could find someone doing something |
| 02:23.09 | Dougie187 | well... i kinda think IM'ing on a phone is kinda ridiculous. and irc would be even more soo. |
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| 02:23.11 | Dougie187 | so* |
| 02:23.18 | Dougie187 | but thats personal preference. |
| 02:23.37 | After_Math | jasta, still cant seem to find any documentation on building without using Eclipse |
| 02:23.49 | romainguy | Dougie187: actually I found IM'ing very useful |
| 02:23.54 | DarkriftX | irc on a phone isnt bad at all |
| 02:23.57 | romainguy | it replaced 95% of my usage of SMS :) |
| 02:24.07 | Dougie187 | yeah i guess in that sense... |
| 02:24.09 | DarkriftX | when the wife kicks me off the computer i used to get my wm phone and jump on irc |
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| 02:24.18 | DarkriftX | im sure android will make it even better |
| 02:24.19 | SamSerious_ | I'd love to have one.. when I'm not on PC.. |
| 02:24.21 | Dougie187 | hey romainguy i got a question. |
| 02:24.25 | Dougie187 | with google talk |
| 02:24.26 | DarkriftX | irc clients for wm sux0rz |
| 02:24.31 | Dougie187 | is there voice calling? |
| 02:24.34 | Dougie187 | i haven't heard any of it. |
| 02:24.40 | Dougie187 | i doubt there would because thats like skype. |
| 02:24.42 | Dougie187 | but still... |
| 02:24.50 | romainguy | Dougie187: not in the current version |
| 02:24.55 | romainguy | I don't know what plans are for this |
| 02:24.58 | romainguy | if there are any plans |
| 02:25.02 | Dougie187 | ok |
| 02:25.02 | SamSerious_ | i'd be disappointed if there is no voice for gtalk on Android |
| 02:25.15 | jasta | After_Math: it's there. ugh. |
| 02:25.18 | Dougie187 | I wouldn't expect it to be there.. but it would be cool. |
| 02:25.25 | romainguy | write a client :)) |
| 02:25.50 | SamSerious_ | Which I could learn some java.. But im busy with abap :p |
| 02:25.51 | After_Math | jasta, ok Ill keep on looking. Where might I look exactly, |
| 02:26.00 | jasta | http://code.google.com/android/intro/hello-android.html#noeclipse |
| 02:26.18 | jasta | i told you to do go to android's hello world tutorial, somehow you couldn't find that. |
| 02:26.29 | jasta | you are fired. |
| 02:26.33 | SamSerious_ | lol |
| 02:26.33 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 02:27.12 | After_Math | jasta, ah ha, thanks :P I must have missed that part |
| 02:27.40 | jasta | yes, you must have. |
| 02:28.26 | Dougie187 | damn, these are downloading slow. |
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| 02:49.43 | Dougie187 | jasta: you have about 10 more minutes. |
| 02:49.45 | Dougie187 | just so you know |
| 02:49.56 | jasta | cool |
| 02:50.03 | jasta | just hacking around with Five today |
| 02:50.10 | jasta | adding a lot of features to the UI |
| 02:50.23 | Dougie187 | nice |
| 02:50.36 | jasta | playlist support is basically done, adding shit like shuffle/random, better navigation from the main UI, the ability to enqueue more flexibly, etc |
| 02:50.44 | jasta | just making a better overall music program |
| 02:50.49 | SamSerious_ | you guys are developing app? |
| 02:51.15 | jasta | Dougie187: i'm gonna update screenshots soon :) |
| 02:51.15 | Dougie187 | well its already pretty sweet. |
| 02:51.19 | Dougie187 | heh cool |
| 02:51.34 | jasta | SamSerious_: i am, yes. http://five.googlecode.com (that UI is very old) |
| 02:51.34 | Dougie187 | all those sites that took them from you will have to update theirs as well |
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| 02:53.14 | SamSerious_ | jasta: WoW.. Looks great and cool Idea! I like it!!!! |
| 02:53.20 | Dougie187 | i guess dominos has a large 1 topping pizza for 3.99 |
| 02:53.25 | jasta | what? |
| 02:53.34 | jasta | i would order that right now if that's true |
| 02:53.35 | Dougie187 | and a large infinity topping pizza for 6.99 |
| 02:53.36 | jasta | i'm hungry :) |
| 02:53.41 | Dougie187 | im not sure if it is or not. |
| 02:53.41 | Dougie187 | here |
| 02:53.52 | Dougie187 | http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/hot-deals/871293/ |
| 02:53.59 | SamSerious_ | its 11PM :| |
| 02:54.01 | jasta | SamSerious_: it's real, too! :) |
| 02:54.13 | Dougie187 | you might have to go pick it up. |
| 02:54.14 | Dougie187 | but still |
| 02:54.16 | jasta | i mean, my app. it really does what it says it does. |
| 02:54.20 | jasta | right now. :) |
| 02:54.42 | SamSerious_ | jasta: :) |
| 02:55.03 | jasta | open source too. you could build it now if you want. |
| 02:55.15 | SamSerious_ | I dont know java :( |
| 02:55.38 | jasta | like it's hard to learn :) |
| 02:55.54 | Dougie187 | and you don't need to know java to build it |
| 02:56.16 | SamSerious_ | No I thought programming.. |
| 02:56.21 | Dougie187 | nope. |
| 02:56.30 | Dougie187 | thats like saying you need to know how to program to install a game |
| 02:56.40 | SamSerious_ | Time is what I don't have for learning :| |
| 02:56.58 | jasta | by definition, everyone using IRC has time. |
| 02:57.04 | SamSerious_ | hahaha |
| 02:57.04 | Dougie187 | true. |
| 02:57.06 | jasta | nothing but time :) |
| 02:57.37 | Dougie187 | jasta: do you still have the link to my site? |
| 02:57.47 | jasta | don't think so |
| 02:57.51 | Dougie187 | ok. pm |
| 02:57.53 | jasta | k |
| 02:58.12 | SamSerious_ | well I have this fat book on my keyboard and trying to learn some logical expressions.. :p |
| 02:58.55 | Dougie187 | logical expressions as in...? |
| 02:59.08 | Dougie187 | jasta: do you play any console games? |
| 02:59.18 | SamSerious_ | abap programming.. SAP stuffs |
| 02:59.21 | jasta | well, occassionally I get really stoned and play Mega Man |
| 02:59.28 | Dougie187 | which mega man? |
| 02:59.33 | SamSerious_ | jasta: you do web designing? |
| 02:59.44 | languish | DarkriftX |
| 02:59.52 | DarkriftX | ? |
| 02:59.53 | jasta | Dougie187: all of them. i have only not played some of the more esoteric japanese only ones |
| 02:59.55 | languish | DarkriftX http://androidcommunity.com/forums/f8/warning-all-android-users-please-read-2910/ |
| 03:00.04 | Dougie187 | which one is your fav? |
| 03:00.05 | jasta | my favorite is probably Mega Man X1 for the SNES |
| 03:00.15 | Dougie187 | hell yeah |
| 03:00.17 | Dougie187 | that one rocks |
| 03:00.19 | Dougie187 | i love the X's |
| 03:00.24 | jasta | but there is one i have played most recently that is really great |
| 03:00.28 | jasta | i cant remember which one it was tho |
| 03:00.32 | jasta | its on my PS2 upstairs :) |
| 03:00.36 | Dougie187 | 2 and 3 are good as well |
| 03:00.42 | Dougie187 | i have all of them on my xbox. heh |
| 03:00.42 | jasta | X2/3 or regular 2/3? |
| 03:00.48 | Dougie187 | regular 2 and 3 |
| 03:00.51 | Dougie187 | i like X1 2 and 3 |
| 03:00.57 | Dougie187 | but regular 2 and 3 are good as well |
| 03:01.07 | Dougie187 | i hear 9 is pretty good as well |
| 03:01.11 | Dougie187 | but i haven't tried it yet |
| 03:01.39 | DarkriftX | heh |
| 03:01.41 | jasta | i basically only play it when i smoke tho, and i havent smoked in a _long_ time |
| 03:02.00 | Dougie187 | heh, i don't smoke. |
| 03:02.04 | jasta | the issue is really that Mega Man is too easy an adult when you're sober |
| 03:02.06 | Dougie187 | i play when i get bored though |
| 03:02.17 | Dougie187 | but its fun... to get everything at least. |
| 03:02.17 | jasta | so i like to scale back my reaction time to when i was 7 or 8 :) |
| 03:02.19 | Dougie187 | but it is very easy |
| 03:02.23 | Dougie187 | it takes like 2 hours to be X1 |
| 03:02.35 | ttuttle | jasta: heh |
| 03:02.49 | Dougie187 | beat* |
| 03:03.58 | After_Math | do you create your own ActivityName? |
| 03:04.51 | jasta | After_Math: dude, you can figure this out with just the docs. i promise you. |
| 03:05.10 | After_Math | ok then I will say yes :) |
| 03:07.13 | wastrel | smoking is bad |
| 03:07.18 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 03:09.22 | Dougie187 | wastrel: what kind of smoking? |
| 03:09.54 | After_Math | lol yes it is |
| 03:10.12 | After_Math | how can I check ants compiler error output log? |
| 03:10.16 | After_Math | or where are they located? |
| 03:12.44 | jasta | uhm, just read stdout |
| 03:12.50 | jasta | it should tell you. |
| 03:12.53 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 03:13.48 | After_Math | lol |
| 03:13.53 | Dougie187 | jasta: you like the videos? |
| 03:13.58 | After_Math | I dont understand it |
| 03:14.15 | jasta | Dougie187: havent looked just yet |
| 03:14.17 | jasta | i will in a sec |
| 03:14.26 | jasta | After_Math: dude, you need to be in #java |
| 03:14.27 | Dougie187 | ok, it will probably take like 10-20 minutes to download. |
| 03:14.49 | After_Math | k |
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| 03:23.54 | Dougie187 | im out guys. |
| 03:23.55 | Dougie187 | see ya |
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| 03:38.46 | jasta | what the fuck, i still seem to be having that issue where pressing back to go to a previous activity in my app doesn't preserve the lists position |
| 03:38.56 | jasta | what the fuck is with that. do you need to use ListActivity to get that behaviour or some crap? |
| 03:39.48 | dmoffett | I have having the same issue but I am using a ListActivity. |
| 03:40.02 | dmoffett | I assumed that I would have to deal with it manually. |
| 03:40.09 | dmoffett | but have not gotten that far. |
| 03:40.18 | dmoffett | Are you using an Adaptor? |
| 03:40.56 | jasta | yes, i dont get it either. i've asked romain about this a while ago and he claims "it just works" |
| 03:41.06 | jasta | and that his evidence of this is that the ApiDemos app has this behaviour |
| 03:41.18 | jasta | but for some reason i dont get it in any of my activities... or at least not consistently |
| 03:41.21 | jasta | i dont understand |
| 03:41.27 | jasta | it destroys usability, so i have to figure it out |
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| 03:41.42 | umdk1d3 | are you filling the adapter in oncreate, or another part of the lifecycle? |
| 03:41.59 | jasta | another part of the lifecycle, now that you mention it. |
| 03:42.06 | umdk1d3 | and that might be the issue |
| 03:42.09 | dmoffett | Usually I have to send a notifyDataSetChanged so I thought I would have to manage the selection. |
| 03:42.12 | jasta | yeah it just occurred to me |
| 03:42.27 | jasta | umdk1d3: im gonna check 0.9r1 source to see how this magic works |
| 03:42.31 | umdk1d3 | it might destroy it far enough 1/2 the time to need to recreate that datasource |
| 03:42.56 | umdk1d3 | and the magic "restoring list posiotion" that romain talked about might happen /before/ the list gets populated |
| 03:43.01 | umdk1d3 | when the activity comes back to foreground |
| 03:43.10 | umdk1d3 | in those random cases |
| 03:43.23 | jasta | i meant "some of the time" as in some of my activities do this |
| 03:43.24 | jasta | others do not |
| 03:43.27 | jasta | and i think you are right |
| 03:43.42 | jasta | its the activities where i defer setContentView |
| 03:43.58 | jasta | so perhaps for that usage i do need to manage this myself |
| 03:44.14 | jasta | but i want to figure out how ListView handles this normally, so i can tap into whatever its doing |
| 03:44.57 | jasta | ListView.SavedState, i bet that's got somethin to do with it ;P |
| 03:45.27 | jasta | oh actually it probably doesnt. |
| 03:47.54 | jasta | ahh, AbsListView.SavedState is relevant ;) |
| 03:50.32 | jasta | hmm, this could be very tricky. |
| 03:51.02 | jasta | apparently deferring setContentView like this isn't a great strategy. perhaps i should just setContentView early but hide it all |
| 03:52.26 | After_Math | sweeeet |
| 03:52.36 | After_Math | I can do it now :) |
| 03:52.37 | After_Math | woohoo |
| 03:53.00 | After_Math | no thanks to jasta ;) |
| 03:54.22 | dmoffett | public Parcelable onSaveInstanceState() seems to work pretty well for me. |
| 03:55.07 | jasta | dmoffett: well that is what's supposed to be doing it for the ListView |
| 03:55.27 | jasta | so somehow with my usage (deferred setContentView i bet) it's not working properly |
| 03:56.06 | dmoffett | Hmmm... I am keeping and setting the Parcelable using the onRestoreInstanceState. |
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| 03:56.16 | dmoffett | I could be way off though. Just trying it out now. |
| 03:56.30 | dmoffett | seems to work but without a lot of testing. |
| 03:56.40 | jasta | you mean your list state? but what is your usage of ListView? |
| 03:57.16 | jasta | i think how we're setting the adapter or when we're posting the ListView is the issue. i'm checking when onRestoreInstanceState is called right now |
| 03:57.45 | dmoffett | Basically I fill the list from a custom adaptor and usually edit the list in another activity and return. |
| 03:58.07 | jasta | oh i think i know what my issue is actually |
| 03:58.23 | dmoffett | Prior to using the methods the list just went back the initial state. |
| 03:58.26 | dmoffett | Cool |
| 03:58.31 | theCarpenter | so i saw some mailing list postings from a while back that said that Android itself is not opensource (yet)? is this still the case? |
| 03:58.42 | jasta | in onStop(), i am calling setContentView(new View(this)) just as a dummy way to unset. i need to rework how i'm managing this. |
| 03:58.52 | jasta | theCarpenter: yes |
| 03:59.07 | dmoffett | Apparently the source will be release after the phone. |
| 03:59.15 | dmoffett | at Google discretiion. |
| 04:01.05 | theCarpenter | Understood. If not the whole platform, have any subcomponents of the platform been yet? I'm wondering about the package manager in particular. |
| 04:01.07 | dmoffett | theCarpenter == Jesus? |
| 04:01.40 | dmoffett | no idea. |
| 04:01.43 | jasta | theCarpenter: no, nothing. |
| 04:01.52 | jasta | (Except the kernel *grin*) |
| 04:01.54 | dmoffett | Guess I would want to know if I were talking to God. |
| 04:02.01 | gambler | his 2nd coming was in #android? wow |
| 04:02.08 | theCarpenter | dmoffett: Well, i do have a thing for wine... |
| 04:03.04 | *** join/#android muthu_ (n=mobeegal@59.92.71.110) |
| 04:04.08 | theCarpenter | Wait, the kernel sources have been released? |
| 04:04.29 | theCarpenter | oh |
| 04:05.07 | jasta | yes, they would have to be. otherwise it would be a gpl violation |
| 04:07.04 | gdsx | theCarpenter: I don't know if they have been already, but they will be |
| 04:07.10 | gdsx | theCarpenter: Market will not be open-sourced |
| 04:07.41 | gdsx | theCarpenter: there's stuff on the device that actually installs the .apk packages, and I believe that will be, though |
| 04:07.48 | gdsx | (not specifically sure what you mean by "package manager") |
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| 04:09.34 | theCarpenter | http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/content/pm/PackageManager.html |
| 04:10.01 | theCarpenter | I believe that's the interface to it |
| 04:11.06 | gdsx | theCarpenter: oh, I believe that will be open-sourced |
| 04:11.26 | theCarpenter | I wanted to hook into the package manager directly, but i suppose my particular application will have to wait |
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| 04:23.17 | *** join/#android muthu (n=muthu@59.92.71.110) |
| 04:24.48 | *** join/#android Poohba (n=poohba@c-71-58-20-66.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 04:26.51 | theCarpenter | What's an application token? http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/Manifest.permission.html#MANAGE_APP_TOKENS |
| 04:27.14 | theCarpenter | if i kill an app token in the window manager, will it kill the app entirely, or just kill its window? |
| 04:50.07 | theCarpenter | Is there any way for one application to restart another currently running application? |
| 04:50.12 | theCarpenter | or shutdown? |
| 04:50.51 | muthu | you can only request intents |
| 04:52.40 | jasta | theCarpenter: can you give us a hint as to what youre trying to accomplish? it may be redundant or unnecessary on android |
| 04:53.01 | theCarpenter | Parental monitoring and package installation monitoring. |
| 04:53.11 | jasta | ahh |
| 04:53.17 | jasta | well, yeah, you are not going to get far with that |
| 04:53.27 | jasta | in fact, for the love of god do not buy your child an android phone :) |
| 04:53.33 | muthu | lol |
| 04:53.39 | bderrly | hah |
| 04:53.41 | muthu | htc would not like to hear that |
| 04:53.44 | theCarpenter | heh |
| 04:54.07 | theCarpenter | So there's no way to hook into the package manager at all to white or blacklist apps? |
| 04:54.13 | jasta | theCarpenter: once you have source, your best bet is almost certainly going to be creating your own "parental" firmware |
| 04:54.19 | jasta | that lets your app become part of the system |
| 04:54.27 | jasta | and thus unremovable and much more overarching for the system |
| 04:54.50 | gambler | Jesus would approve. |
| 04:54.56 | theCarpenter | Well I'm unmarried and childless, but I do thank you for the advice ;) |
| 04:55.01 | jasta | theCarpenter: probably not, but the bigger point is that Android is one of (if not the) most flexible platforms out there |
| 04:55.05 | gambler | theCarpenter, arent you worried about the kid surfing to evil websites? |
| 04:55.07 | languish | until your kid flashes the phone with their own fake-parental firmware |
| 04:55.08 | jasta | giving that to a child is a _REALLY_ terrible idea |
| 04:55.31 | taaz | i thought children were the primary users of new phones? seriously. last weekend i was in bestbuy and i was the only one over 15 looking at phones. |
| 04:55.34 | jasta | you couldn't possibly blacklist every app you dont want them to have |
| 04:55.44 | muthu | teens are the major revenue |
| 04:55.50 | jasta | and they will surely be clever enough to work around the thin layer you provide for them (again, Android is really flexible and is not meant to be inhibited in any way) |
| 04:55.56 | gambler | what about the good apps, like the ones that let you know where they are in case they get kidnapped? |
| 04:56.08 | languish | taaz, most adults knwo best buy is a ripoff and find better deals elsewhere. |
| 04:56.17 | languish | :| |
| 04:56.21 | jasta | gambler: what about the bad ones, like that let you broadcast your location to strangers on facebook? :) |
| 04:56.46 | muthu | the power is with the users.. |
| 04:56.47 | jasta | theCarpenter: my advice to you is to wait until source code comes out to see what you can accomplish, and to think _WAY_ beyond managing what can and cannot be installed. |
| 04:56.58 | gambler | hmmm, well I plan on having boys instead of girls :p |
| 04:56.58 | jasta | muthu: right, which is why you don't give it to small children |
| 04:57.07 | theCarpenter | Let me clarify a few things: 1) I don't have kids of my own |
| 04:57.08 | languish | jasta, teenage girls lay on beaches with their phone numbers zinc-oxided on their backs.. .you really think pervs need to go out of their way to find them? |
| 04:57.13 | muthu | yeah, but they are the one who want them badly |
| 04:57.24 | muthu | languish: lol |
| 04:57.30 | theCarpenter | 2) I think there might be a market for something like this especially if the Android GamePhone or KidPhone or something is released down the rode |
| 04:57.32 | theCarpenter | *road |
| 04:57.43 | taaz | languish: maybe. but at least you can check out the size and feel of the fake phones. i was just asking if they would have the g1 but apparently don't even carry contract t-mobile stuff. |
| 04:57.51 | jasta | whatever, i give up |
| 04:57.53 | theCarpenter | 3) I recognize that it's difficult to get really comprehensive coverage, but you have to start somewhere |
| 04:58.17 | jasta | theCarpenter: you can't start without the source, i'm telling you that right now ;) |
| 04:58.29 | theCarpenter | And by comprehensive coverage, i mean it's difficult to 100% childproof something like Android |
| 04:58.33 | jasta | you will almost certainly need a custom firmware |
| 04:58.36 | jasta | to do anything useful at all |
| 04:58.36 | muthu | your app has 0 control over other apps |
| 04:58.53 | jasta | and even then, i dont recommend you target android for this type of thing |
| 04:59.16 | languish | besides, kids can jailbreak anything you can make |
| 04:59.17 | jasta | again, android is _VERY_ powerful. you don't want to give children that power under the guise of your pathetically trivial parental controls |
| 04:59.44 | jasta | if you were going to tackle a project like this, it would be _huge_ and would need to be a very elaborate custom firmware |
| 04:59.59 | languish | in addition.. |
| 05:00.10 | languish | you'd need a deal with the carrier |
| 05:00.16 | jasta | yes ;) |
| 05:00.43 | theCarpenter | So there would be absolutely no way to create an android software application that allows even partial coverage? |
| 05:00.44 | gambler | how about a WWJD app instead... |
| 05:00.58 | gambler | "Dear Jesus, should I use a condom?" - Jesus: No, Abstain. |
| 05:01.07 | jasta | theCarpenter: yes, there would be, but it would be a lot of work and would be at a level you dont have access to now (firmware + source) |
| 05:01.09 | theCarpenter | Even like say, having a whitelist for apps or something |
| 05:01.23 | languish | oh man, a magic WWJD 8-ball app |
| 05:01.25 | theCarpenter | jasta: Understood, and as you said, the sources for the package manager aren't available yet... |
| 05:01.25 | languish | lawl |
| 05:01.45 | jasta | theCarpenter: so wait for them. do not pursue this project until you have a broader picture. |
| 05:01.59 | jasta | you will fail and it will be really hard to admit that i was totally right :) |
| 05:02.02 | jasta | you don't want that |
| 05:02.11 | theCarpenter | Understood :) |
| 05:02.33 | jasta | btw, Disney has a kid phone. it really sucks (and that's the point) |
| 05:02.46 | languish | "Jesus, should I allow this man to touch me?" (shake G1) Result: My palms itch, ask again later |
| 05:02.57 | jasta | your job would be to take android and make it really suck. there's a lot of cool there :) |
| 05:03.32 | muthu | any news on market? |
| 05:03.35 | muthu | G1? |
| 05:03.37 | theCarpenter | In the meantime, is there anything I can at least play around with as far as monitoring anything? Even something like, say, detecting whether a particular application has or has not yet been installed and simply popping up a dialogue box if it has. |
| 05:03.45 | languish | muthu yes "it's coming" |
| 05:03.48 | languish | :| |
| 05:03.51 | theCarpenter | For my own curiosity purposes say :) |
| 05:03.54 | muthu | :|| |
| 05:04.02 | jasta | you go ahead and waste all the time you want theCarpenter. |
| 05:04.06 | taaz | jasta: do you do anything in five to handle long artist or title names? |
| 05:04.14 | jasta | taaz: such as? |
| 05:04.45 | languish | woot time |
| 05:04.51 | taaz | something to make it look better |
| 05:04.53 | jasta | most of the interface just makes TextViews that are bounded either single line or double line. other than that, i dont know what you mean. |
| 05:05.25 | jasta | but i try to keep that to a minimum, especially for song titles. people like to read their song titles. |
| 05:05.33 | jasta | esp since the really long ones tend to be funny to them |
| 05:05.40 | theCarpenter | jasta: You're great X-D... okay then, let me ask this. Lets set aside the parental monitoring thing for a second. |
| 05:06.14 | theCarpenter | The PackageManager class: http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/content/pm/PackageManager.html Will that at least let me *detect* if a particular application is installed at a given point in time? |
| 05:06.35 | taaz | well... i was thinking of a widget that truncated and added "..." or whatever. maybe even did title scrolling. i dunno. |
| 05:06.47 | jasta | taaz: uhh, TextView does that now |
| 05:07.00 | taaz | it does? i must be using it wrong. |
| 05:07.03 | theCarpenter | In other words, is an application at least allowed to check for the existence of another application? I'm seeing permissions for viewing other packages' size; what about an existence check? |
| 05:07.03 | jasta | set android:singleLine=true and stare in awe. |
| 05:07.58 | jasta | theCarpenter: well sure, look at the interface. |
| 05:08.49 | languish | wait. oyg! theCarpenter - a reference to....*gasp* jesus? |
| 05:09.12 | romainguy | jasta: no, you have to add android:ellipsize="end" |
| 05:09.24 | theCarpenter | languish: As I said before, I do have a thing for Wine... ;) |
| 05:09.26 | romainguy | (and use singleLine) |
| 05:09.39 | languish | theCarpenter as in, you like to? |
| 05:09.42 | languish | :\ |
| 05:10.14 | jasta | romainguy: really, because i get that effect on all my TextViews in 1.0 and i didnt do anything. |
| 05:10.23 | jasta | perhaps the textAppearanceMedium/Large styles include ellipsize |
| 05:10.52 | languish | stop trying to make lockdown apps for android, it's the antithesis of "open", even if a buncha wackadoodle right wingers will pay you for the illusion of security |
| 05:11.24 | gambler | I dont understand the Location Provider concept. |
| 05:11.25 | gambler | It seems like there should be a single class that uses the best heuristics it can manage to get a location fix. |
| 05:11.34 | theCarpenter | languish: Damn, FOSS fanatic much? |
| 05:11.40 | jasta | romainguy: hey i have a question if you have a second. i realized my deferred setContentView approach had a pretty big flaw in that ListView positions weren't preserved between onStop/onRestart |
| 05:11.41 | muthu | textview has some nice features.. ellipsize, linkify et al |
| 05:12.02 | languish | theCarpenter, only in the face of mediocraty |
| 05:12.03 | jasta | so i started reworking this pattern i use to setContentView only once, then hide/show getWindow().getDecorView() when i need them |
| 05:12.31 | jasta | romainguy: but there is a very slight delay between when the UI is shown to when my player state is shown on it. |
| 05:13.29 | jasta | do you know what might be causing this? i'm basically invoking getDecorView().setVisibility(View.VISIBLE); ViewSwitcher#showNext(); |
| 05:13.43 | jasta | but what seems to happen is an immediate draw with the viewswitcher on the old view, then very quickly updates to show it switched |
| 05:14.50 | romainguy | changing the visibility of the decor view seems like a bad idea to me |
| 05:14.58 | romainguy | the framework relies on decor view |
| 05:14.59 | jasta | yeah me too |
| 05:15.07 | romainguy | and it might make assumptions about its visibility |
| 05:15.32 | jasta | do you have any other suggestion for how i might tidy this drawing? |
| 05:15.44 | jasta | i don't want my UI to present to the user then suddenly flip to display the service's state. |
| 05:16.08 | jasta | i thought i had a clean solution for this but my solution has other bad problems so i scrapped it |
| 05:16.41 | jasta | i can show you the code if you think that would be helpful |
| 05:19.24 | jasta | actually, reviewing my own code i think this could be a logic error |
| 05:19.24 | taaz | jasta, romainguy: thanks. that worked well. |
| 05:19.56 | jasta | taaz: yeah i was pleased when i just updated my project and that effect was taken care of :) |
| 05:20.40 | jasta | sigh, nope, that logic bug was related to something else. |
| 05:20.43 | *** part/#android theCarpenter (n=virtualm@ppp-69-221-69-0.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net) |
| 05:21.48 | jasta | romainguy: i actually thought that the decor view was simply the top-most view that i give in setContentView tho |
| 05:26.49 | jasta | so, my view to control however i want. is that not true? |
| 05:30.44 | gdsx | romainguy: is there a way for an app to get root privs? (double-checking before I respond to the port email) |
| 05:31.57 | muthu | I/global ( 304): INFO: Default buffer size used in BufferedReader constructor. It would be better to be explicit if a 8k-char buffer is required. |
| 05:32.06 | muthu | that keeps showing up in logcat |
| 05:32.11 | jasta | muthu: so, specify a buffer size. |
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| 05:32.30 | jasta | they're warning you that an 8k buffer might be a big high for a mobile device, but that is the default harmony is using. |
| 05:32.43 | muthu | hmm |
| 05:32.58 | jasta | you probably want a smaller buffer size, like 1 or 2k, depending on what you're doing. |
| 05:33.28 | muthu | is that the internal views using it? |
| 05:33.48 | muthu | it says 'global' |
| 05:33.55 | jasta | it came from harmony, i'm sure. |
| 05:34.09 | muthu | yeah, but the system uses it that way |
| 05:34.37 | jasta | what are you babbling about? |
| 05:35.12 | muthu | i'm not using a BufferedReader anywhere |
| 05:35.18 | jasta | somebody is. |
| 05:35.28 | jasta | if you're sure it's not you, then ignore it |
| 05:35.30 | muthu | yeah, that somebody happens to be android |
| 05:35.41 | jasta | tho i have never seen that message anywhere except my own usage |
| 05:37.21 | jasta | romainguy: whoops. my assumption was incorrect, thanks for the tip. my top-level view is the first child of the decor view. any recommendation for locating that? obviously getChildAt(0) is not a good idea. |
| 05:38.15 | jasta | this solution i have is an abstraction, so it's not really workable to just give an id to my top-level view in setContentView |
| 05:41.45 | muthu | you can get it by 'id' |
| 05:41.52 | muthu | sry, by tag |
| 05:42.55 | jasta | how would i tag it without being able to locate it? :) |
| 05:51.26 | muthu | tag then when creating the views |
| 05:51.33 | muthu | *them |
| 05:51.40 | jasta | i'm not creating them. setContentView is. |
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| 06:04.51 | umdk1d3 | ooh it says there are new photos |
| 06:06.32 | jasta | new photos of what? |
| 06:06.52 | umdk1d3 | photostream said that romainguy posted new stuff |
| 06:07.04 | jasta | automagically? |
| 06:07.06 | umdk1d3 | wonders how often it checks |
| 06:07.09 | umdk1d3 | yep |
| 06:07.13 | jasta | slick :) |
| 06:08.05 | jasta | umdk1d3: the apparent feature set for Five is ramping up fast :) |
| 06:08.09 | jasta | i got a lot done tonight |
| 06:08.14 | umdk1d3 | oh cool :) |
| 06:08.28 | jasta | working right now on the ability to do shuffled playback of an album/playlist/whatever |
| 06:08.54 | umdk1d3 | ive been rewriting my backend ^.^ getting ready for who-knows-how-many-million people next week |
| 06:09.19 | jasta | dude, this is not a good time to be _rewriting_ things |
| 06:09.24 | umdk1d3 | lol :P |
| 06:09.28 | jasta | are you mad? |
| 06:09.33 | umdk1d3 | ive been neglecting it |
| 06:09.42 | umdk1d3 | and its going really well actually |
| 06:09.49 | umdk1d3 | is last minute guy |
| 06:10.21 | jasta | whatever you say |
| 06:11.18 | muthu | to launch it on market the first day would be v.cool |
| 06:11.26 | jasta | i suppose now is not a good time to bog you down with the trivial details of my UI? :) |
| 06:11.33 | DarkriftX | yo never did tell me what apps were yours umdk1d3 |
| 06:11.46 | umdk1d3 | DarkriftX: lol dont worry about it |
| 06:12.04 | jasta | oh right, umdk1d3 thinks he's "stealthy" |
| 06:12.08 | jasta | like no one knows who he is |
| 06:12.10 | muthu | hehe |
| 06:12.10 | jasta | lol |
| 06:12.11 | umdk1d3 | :/ |
| 06:12.16 | jasta | i bet i could do a simple google search and figure it out |
| 06:12.29 | umdk1d3 | outside of this chan ive kept this nick pretty well isolated |
| 06:13.11 | jasta | why do you think there is value in that btw? |
| 06:13.29 | gambler | yeah didnt muthu post in the channel at one stage that he wanted to have your baby? |
| 06:13.40 | umdk1d3 | wtf!? |
| 06:13.52 | *** join/#android mkitzman1 (n=mkitzman@57.66.56.195) |
| 06:13.54 | jasta | umdk1d3: hey, guess what, i found you with an i'm feeling lucky google search |
| 06:14.17 | umdk1d3 | yea well, dont spread it in here :/ |
| 06:14.23 | umdk1d3 | meh /me throws hands in air |
| 06:14.28 | jasta | i just dont see what the value is. i won't, but i mean... |
| 06:14.37 | gambler | lolza |
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| 06:14.52 | jasta | i intentionally connect my alias to my name so that i have a persistent identity |
| 06:15.15 | umdk1d3 | i would prefer just being some random guy on irc tho |
| 06:15.57 | jasta | are you afraid groupies will attack you in the super market? |
| 06:16.00 | jasta | hehe |
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| 06:16.42 | DarkriftX | i was only wondering because you made the comment about having authors links in file descriptions |
| 06:18.24 | umdk1d3 | it will be very interesting to watch how the whole market thing pans out |
| 06:18.31 | jasta | agreed |
| 06:18.44 | umdk1d3 | its either going to be one, or dozens |
| 06:18.55 | jasta | i'm even thinking of ways that Five can participate. i might put together a "demo" to put up there that connects to a copyright-free demo repository i host |
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| 06:19.17 | jasta | and then like a little button you push to say "i want to install it on my PC" and it tells you what to do |
| 06:19.20 | umdk1d3 | jasta: there may be issues with linking to repo-like things from market-hosted apps |
| 06:19.31 | gambler | jasta: just put it up as a regular app. ppl will pay |
| 06:19.36 | jasta | umdk1d3: what? really? |
| 06:19.43 | jasta | gambler: i'm not talking about a trial version |
| 06:19.58 | umdk1d3 | yea, but i didnt say anything |
| 06:20.55 | muthu | looks like market would have a lot of restrictions |
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| 06:28.05 | unix_infidel | wonders if the topic is UTC. |
| 06:29.00 | unix_infidel | or UTC -8 :-P |
| 06:43.28 | languish | I really hope there ends up being a method very soon to either have an alternate user profile on the g1, or a way to "image/save state" the g1 to SD. |
| 06:43.43 | languish | *microSD of course |
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| 06:45.19 | languish | it would be excellent for testing apps, and if there's a problem, remove or revert back to previous saved state. and also, it would be great for having a "clean" profile/image without personal data like contacts.. for showing the G1 to others |
| 06:46.26 | muthu | can you not sign in with different accounts? |
| 06:46.33 | unix_infidel | is there like a unit testing automation plugin for ADT that alows you to automaticlaly do user input and gestures? |
| 06:46.38 | unix_infidel | (like Xcode) |
| 06:47.59 | languish | muthu, you initialize the G1 with 1 gmail account. that doesn't change. You'd have to create a second gmail account (wasteful), and go through resetting and reinitializing the G1 to "switch accounts" as far as I know. |
| 06:48.27 | languish | that's an ugly and problematic method |
| 06:48.54 | muthu | multi profile is turned on? |
| 06:49.04 | languish | no idea |
| 06:49.10 | languish | I'll knwo monday :/ |
| 06:49.23 | muthu | ok, atleast if you can seamlessly switch between gmail accounts.. |
| 06:49.34 | languish | you can't as far as i know. |
| 06:49.38 | muthu | hmm |
| 06:49.40 | languish | though I may be wrong |
| 06:49.55 | unix_infidel | heh, yea i'll likely end up buying it on friday. |
| 06:50.05 | unix_infidel | because by then virtuall every single question that we've come up with will be answered. |
| 06:50.06 | languish | friday? |
| 06:50.20 | languish | good luck finding one by friday |
| 06:50.37 | languish | they come out in the stores tuesday |
| 06:50.51 | unix_infidel | languish: i'm sure someone will verify that they have a 2GB cap by then. |
| 06:51.12 | languish | unix_infidel, the cap issue has been addressed |
| 06:51.39 | languish | it's a 10GB cap so long as it's not excessive use 24/7 in a short period |
| 06:51.39 | unix_infidel | languish: they are a carrier, they should be able to reinstitute whatever they want. |
| 06:52.02 | unix_infidel | link to 10GB? |
| 06:52.14 | languish | after the 10GB cap, they drop you down to around 50kbps |
| 06:52.45 | languish | unix_infidel, it's been posted on the t-mobile forums for android by t-mobile employees |
| 06:52.59 | unix_infidel | meh, i'll wait till friday. |
| 06:53.02 | languish | lol |
| 06:53.14 | unix_infidel | if not I can always get an iPhone. |
| 06:53.23 | languish | I assume there will be problems the first couple of months |
| 06:53.41 | languish | 'eh, get a touch pro instead |
| 06:53.43 | unix_infidel | like... |
| 06:54.10 | languish | like... balancing the network usage and regional user density |
| 06:55.31 | languish | every time t-mobile has turned up a network service to all customers, there have been hiccups |
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| 06:56.10 | languish | though, this may not be as bad, as the total customer base won't be switching over all at once |
| 06:56.39 | languish | just the pre-orders that actually received their devices |
| 06:56.46 | languish | and it'll be staggered over a few days |
| 06:57.09 | languish | people have been receiving their devices already, and more will on monday |
| 06:57.31 | languish | so tmo will have some of the load already managed by the big launch on tues |
| 06:58.01 | languish | which is the smartest thing I've ever seen tmo do. working with google has been good for them |
| 06:58.36 | unix_infidel | i'm a little surprised people who access to the android phone are using their iphone full time. |
| 06:58.38 | muthu | tmo has become smart working with google |
| 06:58.50 | languish | muthu, i doubt this |
| 06:58.53 | languish | :) |
| 06:58.56 | muthu | hope it doesn't go the other way ;) |
| 06:59.20 | languish | I would say, tmo has gotten good advice from google on this venture. |
| 06:59.31 | languish | we'll see what tmo has learned over the next few years |
| 07:00.00 | languish | man, I would love to see google get fed up and buy tmo outright |
| 07:00.23 | languish | granted that's unlikely to ever occur with wimax coming down the pipe |
| 07:00.38 | muthu | google must go all out on mobile |
| 07:00.54 | theCarpenter | android API is ridculously comprehensive.. holy crap |
| 07:00.55 | theCarpenter | it's massive |
| 07:01.10 | languish | google's still making a play for national free wireless data broadband |
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| 07:02.30 | theCarpenter | ohhh rumors |
| 07:02.30 | languish | odd, even your ident changed |
| 07:02.33 | theCarpenter | will you never cease :) |
| 07:02.50 | languish | theCarpenter, it's not a rumor. they've made it very clear |
| 07:03.06 | languish | google isn't looking to build it out themselves right now |
| 07:03.09 | theCarpenter | nope |
| 07:03.12 | languish | but they're paving the way for someone to do it |
| 07:03.45 | languish | or for everyone to eventually get cloud devices |
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| 07:08.36 | DarkriftX | its not all that hard to believe if you think about it from their point of view |
| 07:08.48 | DarkriftX | if you arent online, you cant see thier ads, and they cant make money off you |
| 07:09.09 | DarkriftX | tv used to not be available to everyone, that changed fast lol |
| 07:09.21 | coder1 | any advice for xml preferences? I've copied one in the apis demo, but in my class that extends PreferenceActivity, R.xml.preferences is invalid. |
| 07:09.23 | DarkriftX | and by tv i mean broadcast, not the actual device |
| 07:09.30 | romainguy | umdk1d3 wonders how often it checks << every 24 hours |
| 07:09.46 | romainguy | umdk1d3: it checks only the beginning of the Flickr RSS feed |
| 07:10.30 | muthu_ | coder1: add a 'preferences' xml file |
| 07:11.06 | coder1 | muthu_: i added a new folder /res/xml , then a new file in it named preferences.xml |
| 07:11.08 | DarkriftX | hey, romainguy you got a minute you could spare me? |
| 07:11.22 | coder1 | muthu_: after doing that, should R.xml autocomplete in eclipse? |
| 07:11.34 | DarkriftX | i added 2 links to my page with a working .apk that has been tested. was wondering if you could see if either or both links work to install from a browser |
| 07:11.52 | duey | are you guys getting spam coming from adc-entrants@google.com and being sent to nathan@google.com ? |
| 07:12.01 | duey | (its actual spam) |
| 07:12.07 | muthu_ | coder1: righ |
| 07:12.09 | muthu_ | right |
| 07:13.00 | umdk1d3 | romainguy: does it always happen at midnight? it seemed to almost hit it right at the hour |
| 07:13.14 | romainguy | umdk1d3: it happens 24 hours after the first time you ran it |
| 07:13.19 | romainguy | or after your last boot |
| 07:13.25 | romainguy | so, it depends :) |
| 07:13.31 | umdk1d3 | odd, it happened like /right/ at midnight |
| 07:13.43 | muthu_ | hehe.. it wakes up at midnight |
| 07:14.04 | DarkriftX | to see if you are sleeping |
| 07:14.05 | umdk1d3 | also, is there a failover mode? if it fails, does it give up until the next 24 hour wake-up? |
| 07:14.10 | DarkriftX | so it can sneak out and take over the world! |
| 07:14.32 | gambler | kind of a simplistic LocationManager question... |
| 07:14.35 | gambler | how do I get those coordinates that are in DDMS? (Now that the test provider has been removed) |
| 07:14.52 | coder1 | muthu_: in my xml file, error is : no resource found that matches the given name. (at 'key' .. what is that referencing? |
| 07:14.58 | duey | romainguy: are you able to check that spam thing...looking at the headers it is going through google servers |
| 07:15.05 | duey | or i can fwd someone the spams |
| 07:15.14 | romainguy | duey: ? |
| 07:15.19 | duey | <duey> are you guys getting spam coming from adc-entrants@google.com and being sent to nathan@google.com ? |
| 07:15.55 | romainguy | you should contact Dan or Jason |
| 07:16.01 | duey | ok |
| 07:17.12 | muthu_ | coder1: the id |
| 07:17.45 | languish | I wnnder if the G1 update tomorrow is going to enable an "upload your app to the marketplace" feature |
| 07:17.56 | coder1 | muthu_: k thanks, i removed all the wrong xml and now my autocomplete works. i'll read up on the ids now. much appreciated. |
| 07:18.00 | languish | since there's been no announcement on how to do it |
| 07:18.23 | muthu_ | coder1: kool |
| 07:18.29 | umdk1d3 | i doubt they would announce over the weekend |
| 07:18.32 | umdk1d3 | maybe monday morning |
| 07:19.04 | languish | yeah I know.. they're also doing a remote update tomorrow |
| 07:19.17 | languish | tomorrow being monday |
| 07:19.58 | languish | so i'm just conjecturing :) |
| 07:23.17 | muthu_ | India's G1 will be named Ji1 |
| 07:25.48 | umdk1d3 | hmm i wonder if there is a good way to change the listview longpress animation end color (instead of white) |
| 07:26.01 | romainguy | change the selector's drawable |
| 07:26.19 | umdk1d3 | so im using Theme.Light, and its leaving it fading to white |
| 07:26.31 | umdk1d3 | so that drawable is coming from the theme most likely |
| 07:26.32 | romainguy | yeah Theme.Light is not entirely supportd |
| 07:26.35 | romainguy | supported |
| 07:26.46 | romainguy | just enough for our needs :( |
| 07:28.34 | muthu_ | so there's only 1 theme supported now? |
| 07:28.54 | romainguy | Theme.Light works |
| 07:29.01 | romainguy | but not for everything :) |
| 07:29.20 | romainguy | the Gmail app uses Theme.Light for instance |
| 07:29.33 | _avatar | our app does too |
| 07:29.38 | muthu_ | ok.. hope it doesn't throw an exception ;) |
| 07:29.45 | romainguy | no, it doesn't throw exceptions |
| 07:29.55 | _avatar | what doesn't work in Theme.Light? i've never seen anything weird |
| 07:30.04 | romainguy | nothing is really broken |
| 07:30.10 | romainguy | it's some details that kinda suck |
| 07:30.11 | umdk1d3 | the longpress on lists can look a bit odd |
| 07:30.19 | romainguy | like some variations of alert dialogs |
| 07:30.21 | umdk1d3 | because it still fades to white (which is now the background color) |
| 07:30.31 | romainguy | the long press in lists |
| 07:30.33 | romainguy | etc. |
| 07:30.49 | muthu_ | when the user selects the theme, all apps get affected? |
| 07:30.57 | umdk1d3 | muthu_: no, just your app |
| 07:30.58 | _avatar | no, your app can choose which theme to use |
| 07:31.07 | umdk1d3 | and you can have different themes for each activity too |
| 07:31.08 | muthu_ | hmm |
| 07:31.18 | umdk1d3 | rahter, choose theme per-activity |
| 07:31.19 | muthu_ | how about letting the user change themes? |
| 07:31.27 | romainguy | not supported for now |
| 07:31.32 | muthu_ | oooooooh |
| 07:32.44 | coder1 | muthu_: what part of the app are the IDs you were referring to? sorry for the nubness, .. trying to familiarize myself with the architecture.. just started today. |
| 07:33.04 | muthu_ | coder1: every view got an id |
| 07:33.08 | umdk1d3 | muthu_: looks like Context.setTheme() might work from a user-selected standpoint |
| 07:33.18 | umdk1d3 | which migth override the theme specified in the manifest |
| 07:33.26 | muthu_ | umdk1d3: was wondering, if we need to register for theme changes |
| 07:33.31 | romainguy | you can use the ContextWrapper to change a theme too |
| 07:33.46 | muthu_ | so the app gets auto updated when user swithches theme |
| 07:33.49 | coder1 | muthu_: i see now thanks. i'm learning out of order. |
| 07:33.56 | romainguy | muthu_: the user cannot switch theme :) |
| 07:34.04 | muthu_ | rite, got that |
| 07:34.17 | romainguy | muthu_: coder1: every view got an id << no, only when you give them an id :) |
| 07:34.45 | muthu_ | don't you assign an internal id, if its not set by app? |
| 07:34.50 | romainguy | no |
| 07:34.56 | muthu_ | hmm |
| 07:35.04 | romainguy | well we do |
| 07:35.07 | romainguy | it's always View.NO_ID :) |
| 07:35.11 | muthu_ | ha |
| 07:35.13 | romainguy | (which is -1) |
| 07:35.22 | muthu_ | so every view has an id <=== TURE :P |
| 07:35.35 | romainguy | well no |
| 07:35.40 | romainguy | because they all have the id NO_ID |
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| 07:35.46 | romainguy | so it's not an identifier anymore |
| 07:35.49 | muthu_ | yeah, NO ID is an id |
| 07:35.55 | romainguy | no it's not |
| 07:36.00 | romainguy | hence its name :) |
| 07:36.08 | muthu_ | then why you assign no id |
| 07:36.10 | WildCaterpillar | for the upcoming g1 (from tmobile)....can one have contacts which do not appear on your gmail account? |
| 07:36.23 | romainguy | muthu_: to know when no id was assigned |
| 07:36.30 | muthu_ | right, so the view has an id |
| 07:36.35 | muthu_ | which happens to be no_id |
| 07:36.45 | romainguy | muthu_: sure, whatever you want |
| 07:36.49 | gambler | eclipse DDMS on windows doesnt send location updates...but it works on linux...wow |
| 07:36.49 | muthu_ | lol |
| 07:36.55 | romainguy | WildCaterpillar: you can disable contacts syncing |
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| 07:42.46 | muthu_ | have a list view in a scroll view.. the list view doesn't respond to touch |
| 07:43.13 | muthu_ | i mean, just the scroll |
| 07:43.22 | muthu_ | for the list doesn't happen |
| 07:49.58 | languish | I know there were some devices Android was run on for dev and proof of concept..etc, prior to the htc dream established as the production model. I'm curious what other devices/form factors there were, and if any of them would have been unique to the market had they been chosen. |
| 07:50.11 | languish | +being |
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| 07:51.29 | languish | Be nice to see what google/HTC/the OHA played with, and what decisions led them to choose the dream over the others. |
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| 08:05.59 | jasta | watches the video for Band of Horses - Funeral ... *wonders* |
| 08:12.57 | romainguy | muthu_: wtf? don't put a ListView in a ScrollView, ListView already handles scrolling |
| 08:13.25 | romainguy | doing so basically goes against everything ListView does |
| 08:13.35 | romainguy | and turns ListView in a very inefficient LinearLayout |
| 08:33.33 | muthu_ | romainguy: ok |
| 08:33.47 | muthu_ | back after a perfect sunday lunch |
| 08:34.00 | _avatar | there is a gradient drawn at the top and bottom of ListViews to hint there are items above/below the visible ones. is there a way to change the color of that gradient? |
| 08:34.13 | muthu_ | list divider |
| 08:34.29 | muthu_ | can be set to any drawable |
| 08:34.30 | _avatar | the divider is for between items, i thought? |
| 08:34.35 | _avatar | i have customer diviers |
| 08:34.37 | _avatar | i'm talking about the "shadow" |
| 08:34.43 | muthu_ | hmm |
| 08:35.01 | _avatar | Theme.Light draws them as white, i'd just like them to be grey in Theme.Dark |
| 08:36.12 | _avatar | er, grey LIKE in Theme.Dark, (or whatever the default is) |
| 08:36.18 | _avatar | sorry, its getting late |
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| 10:33.30 | Got2 | hi there |
| 10:33.52 | Got2 | i got an iiphone |
| 10:34.27 | Got2 | is it possible to install android on that phone ? |
| 10:35.10 | muthu_ | not now.. but soon |
| 10:35.54 | Got2 | hi u |
| 10:36.16 | Got2 | and right now |
| 10:36.53 | Got2 | is it possible to simulate android on a pc ? |
| 10:37.11 | Got2 | to see how it look like ? |
| 10:38.23 | Got2 | is it possible ? |
| 10:39.13 | Got2 | emulate |
| 10:41.00 | muthu_ | got2, the android devs are sleeping |
| 10:41.06 | muthu_ | try US day time |
| 10:41.21 | umdk1d3 | Got2: sure it is :) |
| 10:41.29 | muthu_ | lol |
| 10:41.35 | muthu_ | umdk1d3: lives in mars, btw ;) |
| 10:41.37 | umdk1d3 | Got2: http://code.google.com/android/download_list.html |
| 10:42.16 | Got2 | on a mac |
| 10:42.32 | umdk1d3 | yep, there is a mac emulator |
| 10:42.36 | Got2 | is it possible ? |
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| 10:44.09 | ueoryuzj | umdk1d3: thx |
| 10:44.28 | ueoryuzj | i can't find the link |
| 10:44.36 | ueoryuzj | to install it on a mac ? |
| 10:46.16 | ueoryuzj | yeah it"s me Got2 |
| 10:46.29 | ueoryuzj | can't find the link |
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| 10:51.22 | muthu_ | hey, how to set icons for context menu? |
| 10:51.27 | muthu_ | umdk1d3: did you try conext menu? |
| 11:14.12 | muthu_ | is there a text align? |
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| 11:44.14 | Jonian | is this the google android channel ? |
| 11:50.01 | gambler | Im working on a positronic brain, I dont know what everyone else is here for |
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| 11:59.01 | muthu_ | this is 100% official google android channel |
| 11:59.15 | muthu_ | certified, branded, trusted |
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| 12:27.40 | VickiWong | trying to figure out an error im getting when converting strings to floats, is it possible a number in the thousands such as 1,234.70 could cause problems because of the comma? |
| 12:28.35 | VickiWong | when doing float f = Float.valueOf(s.trim()).floatValue(); |
| 12:29.28 | muthu_ | where's the comma from? |
| 12:29.34 | muthu_ | yeah, you can't have tht |
| 12:29.55 | VickiWong | im reading the numbers in as strings from an external source |
| 12:30.08 | VickiWong | and they're using comma seperators for thousands |
| 12:30.26 | VickiWong | so im going to need to check each value and strip the commas |
| 12:30.31 | VickiWong | if they exist |
| 12:31.01 | muthu_ | does it have a standard format? |
| 12:33.07 | VickiWong | yes, but not all values are in the thousands, so i have 0.23 4.2355 156.123 6,346.5 as some examples |
| 12:34.10 | muthu_ | so there's this format class you should use |
| 12:42.27 | VickiWong | java.util.formatter? |
| 12:42.39 | muthu_ | text.formatter |
| 12:42.50 | muthu_ | for numbers, there's numberformat |
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| 12:48.13 | VickiWong | isnt NumberFormat for when converting to a string? not the other way around |
| 12:49.01 | muthu_ | its both ways |
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| 13:07.46 | VickiWong | float f = NumberFormat.getInstance().parse(s).floatValue(); worked great thanks :) |
| 13:07.57 | muthu_ | cool |
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| 13:38.39 | Amitava | isn't it Three? |
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| 13:39.21 | Gigacore | Amitava: hi |
| 13:39.35 | Amitava | hello |
| 13:39.45 | hullap | hi |
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| 14:00.54 | pjv | does anyone have experience with using multiple ContentProviders? |
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| 14:04.31 | pjv | I don't understand the pros and cons of the form of a ContentUri |
| 14:04.59 | pjv | especially why when specifying the providers in the manifest only checking/filtering on the authority part is possible |
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| 14:06.33 | pjv | should I use: content://net.lp.collectionista.collection.generic, or content://net.lp.collectionista/collection/generic, or content://net.lp.collectionista.collection.generic/collection/generic, or content://net.lp.collectionista.genericcollectionprovider/collection/generic or what? |
| 14:11.56 | pjv | suppose there are Items in general, but there are also specialised Items, like FoodItems, what would be a good hierarchical ContentUri that would allow me to query all the Items, as well as only all the FoodItems? |
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| 14:27.12 | Darky_love_mmm_ | Four? |
| 14:27.34 | Darky_love_mmm_ | WTF Four? |
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| 14:51.33 | VickiWong | For my app I have an update button/feature, which users can run when they like to get more uptodate information from the net for the app (the data is stored in a database table) |
| 14:51.52 | VickiWong | I have just timed the update on the emulator and clocked it at 4mins 12 seconds |
| 14:52.17 | VickiWong | does that seem like a long time for a user to wait? |
| 14:53.28 | VickiWong | oh and the app is a currency converter, so users will only likely update once a day, and only when they need to do conversions (so mostly when abroad) |
| 15:03.48 | VickiWong | When I need to read in many xml files from the net (48 in this case) is it best to fetch/parse the data in threads? as apposed to looping thorugh the process for each file |
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| 15:28.18 | gambler | VickiWong, well your app will block. If there is no point to having old data you might as well block |
| 15:28.28 | gambler | if no other useful work can be done |
| 15:28.44 | gambler | you cant block in services...dunno about activities |
| 15:29.20 | VickiWong | block? |
| 15:30.27 | gambler | eg busy and non responsive.. |
| 15:32.54 | VickiWong | yeah I have a ProgressDialog showing while the phone is fetching the data |
| 15:33.35 | VickiWong | which takes 3-4minutes currently (going through 48 online xml files, fetching/parsing them and extracting important values one file at a time) |
| 15:34.06 | VickiWong | Im thinking I might be able to speed things up by using multiple threads, so that I can deal with multiple xml files at once |
| 15:35.20 | gambler | or you could maybe not use XML?? that might speed things up |
| 15:35.42 | VickiWong | the data my app uses is from a 3rd party source |
| 15:35.53 | VickiWong | who use xml rss feeds |
| 15:36.27 | VickiWong | im pullign the file, extracting the important values and saving them in a database table on the phone |
| 15:36.42 | gambler | gotcha. |
| 15:37.26 | VickiWong | this way users only need to update the database at their discretion, and the app is usable without ever updating |
| 15:38.27 | VickiWong | just trying to speed up the updating process a bit, 3-4mins seems like a bit long to expect a user to wait, playing with a few performance enhancing ideas for the updating process |
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| 15:42.10 | living_sword | is there a method to get current orientation ? |
| 15:44.18 | living_sword | i've seen getRequestedOrientation() but that returns what has been set in the manifest. |
| 15:48.02 | living_sword | nvm got it :) |
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| 16:04.56 | Dougie187 | shouldn't it be three now? |
| 16:07.03 | yakischloba | heh |
| 16:10.07 | ttuttle | morning |
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| 16:30.01 | SanMehat | morning |
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| 16:45.20 | Dougie187 | SanMehat: you have to change the topic to three today. |
| 16:45.29 | Dougie187 | or who ever changes the topic |
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| 17:30.04 | muthu_ | is there a method which takes a filename and produces valid file path? |
| 17:32.07 | VickiWong | for fetching/parsing multiple (48) xml files from the net, is it best to do each one in turn, or to run seperate threads to do multiple files at a time |
| 17:32.21 | muthu_ | run a thread |
| 17:33.05 | VickiWong | muthu_: any idea at what point it would have a negatuve performance effect? i would have thought having 48 threads running at once for example might be worse then doing one at a time |
| 17:33.19 | muthu_ | oh no |
| 17:33.24 | muthu_ | run one background thread |
| 17:33.53 | VickiWong | that deals with each xml file one at a time? |
| 17:33.57 | muthu_ | yes |
| 17:34.06 | VickiWong | yeah thats what i have at the moment |
| 17:34.19 | VickiWong | takes 3-4minutes to complete |
| 17:34.21 | muthu_ | yeah, you can increase the threads as you see fit |
| 17:34.39 | muthu_ | but then you need to make sure you manage your threads right |
| 17:38.24 | *** topic/#android by SanMehat -> Three. |
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| 17:54.26 | Macusers | hi |
| 17:54.47 | Macusers | i try to install android emulator on my mac os x |
| 17:55.39 | Macusers | as my english is very limited i can't install it |
| 17:55.55 | Macusers | can anyone help |
| 17:55.57 | Macusers | plz |
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| 18:21.15 | muthu_ | openFile* methods don't work on sdcard? |
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| 18:53.32 | WildCaterpillar | is there an ssh server for android? |
| 18:58.31 | DarkriftX | good question, i know there is a client but hadnt thought about server |
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| 19:05.18 | umdk1d3 | ooh does GradientDrawable automatically dither for you? |
| 19:07.05 | jasta | umdk1d3: the paint might |
| 19:07.08 | jasta | paints apply dithering |
| 19:07.51 | umdk1d3 | =D |
| 19:08.33 | tomgibara | umdk1d3: Try the method GradientDrawable.setDither(boolean dither) ;) |
| 19:09.03 | umdk1d3 | awesome :) |
| 19:09.14 | umdk1d3 | i dont see any xml-ized examples out there tho :/ |
| 19:09.19 | umdk1d3 | tries piecing together |
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| 19:10.32 | WildCaterpillar | hey neat idea for gphone....textified voicemail |
| 19:10.53 | WildCaterpillar | would be cool to connect to voicemail....listen to voicemail and convert audio to text... |
| 19:11.09 | *** join/#android tweakt (n=mark@xpc.tweakt.net) |
| 19:11.10 | WildCaterpillar | then it is available in print form...showing who called, when, etc |
| 19:11.43 | umdk1d3 | sadly i fear thats covered heavily by at+t patents |
| 19:14.03 | wastrel | hi |
| 19:18.44 | WildCaterpillar | on the emulator, how can i access the unlock app...i'd like to play with setting up a 'password' |
| 19:20.04 | tweakt | WildCaterpillar, i haven't found a way to bring it up, like I've seen in live demos. just says "locked" and any key unlocks |
| 19:20.17 | WildCaterpillar | hmm |
| 19:20.41 | WildCaterpillar | i really want to implement multiple unlock keys...trying to have various modes...like Guest and Me |
| 19:21.13 | tweakt | I imagine you can replace the "lock" app like you can any other part |
| 19:21.41 | WildCaterpillar | so is the one shown in demos not included in the emulator? |
| 19:21.42 | tweakt | something where you choose a sequence of symbols or icons would be cool |
| 19:22.26 | dos1 | i wonder how open G1 will be... |
| 19:22.59 | tweakt | WildCaterpillar, not sure, but I just get the "Screen Locked, press Menu to unlock" box here. |
| 19:23.04 | WildCaterpillar | yeah same here |
| 19:23.06 | dos1 | software will be open, but hardware can disallow users to change basic parts of system |
| 19:23.06 | jasta | yawn |
| 19:23.21 | dos1 | software can be open* |
| 19:24.24 | tweakt | dos1, as long as I can remove tmobile marketing/branding I will be happy |
| 19:24.34 | WildCaterpillar | haha, ditto |
| 19:25.24 | dos1 | tweakt: i prefer to see phone openess like in openmoko devices |
| 19:25.38 | tweakt | I can't even change the home page on the browser in my current phone |
| 19:26.03 | romainguy__ | tweakt: there's very little T-Mobile branding on the G1 |
| 19:26.03 | tweakt | and all the links are "Shop for..." and "What's hot" |
| 19:26.06 | romainguy__ | there's just the myFaves app |
| 19:26.07 | romainguy__ | that's it |
| 19:26.11 | tweakt | awesome |
| 19:26.33 | dos1 | i have freerunner and i very like its openness |
| 19:26.38 | umdk1d3 | romainguy__: =D so im trying to figure out how to build a GradientDrawable in xml, but the documentation link is dead :/ |
| 19:26.44 | tweakt | has anyone seen the UI for connecting to a Wifi access point? |
| 19:26.56 | romainguy__ | tweakt: what about it? |
| 19:27.19 | tweakt | romainguy, are there screen shots online? I'm working on an app idea, just curious what comes out of the box |
| 19:27.34 | romainguy__ | tweakt: I don't think we posted any screenshot of that UI |
| 19:27.42 | romainguy__ | you might find videos/screenshots in the reviews that came out this week |
| 19:28.23 | jasta | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:28.48 | jasta | but in a few days you could probably go to a t-mobile store and try it for yourself :) |
| 19:29.02 | tweakt | yep, planning to buy one |
| 19:31.47 | umdk1d3 | tweakt: http://content.zdnet.com/2346-17932_22-240708-166.html |
| 19:31.53 | umdk1d3 | tweakt: http://content.zdnet.com/2346-17932_22-240708-165.html |
| 19:31.54 | tweakt | WildCaterpillar, that's interesting, I was just watching a video and it had the same exact unlock screen as the emulator |
| 19:32.00 | VickiWong | I hate when that happens, get your app running fine, just the way you want, do some little tidying up changes (which should have no effect) and then your app wont run, and displays no errors >< |
| 19:32.30 | tweakt | umdk1d3, wow! thanks... tons of stuff there |
| 19:33.09 | WildCaterpillar | tweakt: link? |
| 19:33.44 | tweakt | WildCaterpillar, http://www.infosyncworld.com/reviews/cell-phones/t-mobile-g1/9843.html about 30s in |
| 19:34.05 | VickiWong | wow seems removving my toast error message on catch Throable solved the issue |
| 19:34.25 | VickiWong | no idea why there is a Throwable exception now, but app seems to work fine with it |
| 19:34.40 | jasta | VickiWong: throwable is the base class of exception |
| 19:34.49 | jasta | you...probably shouldn't be catching it. |
| 19:35.01 | tweakt | catch Throwable is a bad idea |
| 19:35.09 | jasta | also, make sure you interact with the UI (that includes Toasts) from the main UI thread. |
| 19:35.23 | jasta | the UI is not thread-safe (most UI toolkits are not), so you must take care when using it |
| 19:35.46 | VickiWong | jasta: thats the issue i think, the catch Throwable was leftovers from some code i found |
| 19:35.58 | VickiWong | and it was running in a seperate thread |
| 19:36.23 | jasta | look at runOnUiThread |
| 19:36.31 | jasta | Activity#runOnUiThread to be more specific |
| 19:36.34 | VickiWong | it's ok i just rmeoved the catch |
| 19:36.42 | VickiWong | runs fine now |
| 19:36.42 | jasta | right but you need to learn this either way |
| 19:36.58 | jasta | you can't interact with the UI from other threads |
| 19:37.12 | VickiWong | jasta: your right, sorry i thought you said 'add' instead of 'look at' :) |
| 19:38.23 | VickiWong | and thanks for the heads up on UI thread :) |
| 19:38.25 | WildCaterpillar | tweakt: wow...so maybe the fancy unlock app didn't make it...perhaps on Market? |
| 19:39.34 | tweakt | WildCaterpillar, yeah, but maybe it's only enabled if you select an option. Password protect is pretty important |
| 19:40.33 | WildCaterpillar | argh. i just wish i could set it on the emulator. |
| 19:42.20 | tweakt | WildCaterpillar, yeah. it's wierd there's no central "settings" menu like you're used to seeing on a phone. it must be an add on |
| 19:42.34 | tomgibara | Trivial comment I know, but: Who decided (given that capacity is at a premium) that it was a good idea to offer a solid pink background as one of the built-in options? |
| 19:42.41 | VickiWong | settings not included in emulator |
| 19:43.02 | romainguy__ | tomgibara: I did |
| 19:43.08 | VickiWong | lol |
| 19:43.40 | tomgibara | romainguy__: What was the reasoning? I find it really unpleasant to look at |
| 19:43.50 | romainguy__ | too bad for you then |
| 19:43.56 | romainguy__ | just don't use it |
| 19:44.10 | muthu_ | hey, context menu supports icons? |
| 19:44.36 | VickiWong | romainguy__: are you guys going to be going on hiatus from here in 3 days time? |
| 19:44.44 | VickiWong | romainguy__: I know i would |
| 19:45.09 | DarkriftX | why, thats when all the fun will start |
| 19:45.14 | romainguy__ | VickiWong: why would we? |
| 19:45.53 | VickiWong | romainguy__: because, to quote someone smarter then I 'thats when al lthe fun will start' :D |
| 19:46.10 | DarkriftX | the good news is most of the extreme n00bs dont use irc, so at least a third of the questions will be intelligible |
| 19:46.26 | tomgibara | romainguy__: Fair enough :) but was there reasoning behind it, eg. that there was no pink available in the other backgrounds? |
| 19:46.34 | DarkriftX | the forums will be the scary part |
| 19:46.45 | VickiWong | DarkriftX: good point |
| 19:46.57 | romainguy__ | DarkriftX: to be honest, some questions here are already scary :p |
| 19:47.15 | DarkriftX | "um.. hi lolomg, like how do i like make the thingy open like to show me um... stuff" |
| 19:47.24 | umdk1d3 | DarkriftX: loool its true :) |
| 19:47.30 | VickiWong | romainguy__: thats why i thought you'd all be worried about what's its going to be like after the next few days :D |
| 19:47.34 | umdk1d3 | irc is one of the great filtering mechanisms of the internet |
| 19:47.46 | DarkriftX | LOL umdk1d3 |
| 19:47.52 | romainguy__ | umdk1d3: if that's true, then I'm fucking scared about the rest of the Internet |
| 19:48.04 | umdk1d3 | romainguy__: have you seen forums these days? |
| 19:48.13 | wastrel | internet |
| 19:48.14 | umdk1d3 | the internet is... sad |
| 19:48.22 | DarkriftX | when im at work telling ppl how to find help for foss stuff like joomla, i always ask "do you know what irc is?" and if they answer, they get pointed here, if not i say "nevermind" |
| 19:48.23 | romainguy__ | so is IRC :) |
| 19:48.24 | VickiWong | umdk1d3: really? the amount of crap that's on IRC thats kinda worrying |
| 19:49.12 | umdk1d3 | the irc rfc doesnt support adverts ;) |
| 19:49.18 | *** part/#android dos1 (n=dos1@unaffiliated/dos1) |
| 19:49.25 | DarkriftX | lol |
| 19:49.33 | VickiWong | best argument I've heard in irc's favour :D |
| 19:49.33 | DarkriftX | yes it does, its called a quit message |
| 19:49.44 | umdk1d3 | DarkriftX: lol true :) forgot about that |
| 19:49.54 | umdk1d3 | you can turn off join/parts in irssi tho ;) |
| 19:50.06 | VickiWong | im not l33t enough for irssi |
| 19:50.06 | DarkriftX | quits (Visit my site here at www.domain.com ITS THE BESTEST!!) |
| 19:50.11 | umdk1d3 | <3 irssi |
| 19:50.20 | umdk1d3 | best switch i ever made |
| 19:50.27 | DarkriftX | im on xchat myself |
| 19:50.38 | umdk1d3 | its running in screen 24x7, so its like a bnc =D |
| 19:50.39 | VickiWong | i like hydrairc |
| 19:50.45 | DarkriftX | id still use mirc if it worked better in wine (i was scripting in mirc for about 6 years) |
| 19:50.46 | VickiWong | but yeah runnin xchat just cuz it's here |
| 19:50.49 | summatusmentis | umdk1d3: inorite? |
| 19:51.25 | tomgibara | romainguy: I'm genuinely interested in this, because I'm currently trying to design some icons - I still haven't seen the phone screen, and I'm trying to understand why particular wallpaper colours were chosen. Or was it purely on personal taste? |
| 19:52.05 | jasta | umdk1d3: right on :) |
| 19:52.10 | jasta | umdk1d3: and it's pretty to look at ;) |
| 19:52.21 | umdk1d3 | plus its totally more scriptable than mirc |
| 19:52.31 | umdk1d3 | i have python triggers all over the place |
| 19:52.33 | jasta | uhm you were coming from mirc? |
| 19:52.38 | umdk1d3 | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:52.47 | umdk1d3 | i did some tcl work tho for eggdrop bots |
| 19:53.07 | DarkriftX | i dont know python |
| 19:53.21 | DarkriftX | i know mirc scripting, some php and some bash scripting |
| 19:53.37 | DarkriftX | i started reading about perl but got bored |
| 19:53.37 | jasta | wonders if contentproviders will ever get a way to do transactions |
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| 20:10.21 | tomgibara | jasta: perhaps it could be done with something (very loosely) like an http session |
| 20:12.22 | jasta | well i dont think you could simulate it. this would possibly need to be a modification of sqlite |
| 20:12.29 | jasta | not sure exactly the relationship between provider and db connection tho |
| 20:12.43 | languish | sexual |
| 20:12.48 | languish | purely sexual |
| 20:13.02 | VickiWong | languish: yeah chocolate really is great.. |
| 20:13.15 | languish | You bet it is |
| 20:13.44 | languish | We picked up some truffles earlier. Wife's making some sushi |
| 20:14.09 | languish | Gonna have the truffles (chocolate variety) after we eat |
| 20:15.28 | *** join/#android shoragan_ (n=shoragan@sicherheitsschwankung.de) |
| 20:15.28 | ttuttle | Sushi! |
| 20:15.33 | languish | But damn these gourmet chocolatiers overcharge for a little bit of cocoa and milk |
| 20:15.36 | ttuttle | Yummy. |
| 20:15.45 | languish | $25/half lb |
| 20:16.08 | VickiWong | chocolate + sushi....can it get better |
| 20:16.22 | languish | speaking of which, fodd's ready l8r :) |
| 20:16.34 | mib_qanjef5s | try cooking capsules chocolate pots de creme ;-) |
| 20:16.47 | languish | lol will do |
| 20:16.48 | languish | o/ |
| 20:25.36 | DarkriftX | w00t languish i setup a mobile version of my site :) |
| 20:25.47 | DarkriftX | its kinda ugly, but very basic |
| 20:25.59 | DarkriftX | works great on the emu |
| 20:26.25 | DarkriftX | just add ?template=pda to the end of the url because my mobile. subdomain will take a few hours to propagate |
| 20:30.09 | VickiWong | is itn ormal to get com.android.phone is not responding error when running emu? |
| 20:32.13 | *** join/#android jt436 (n=jtomlins@76.194.67.232) |
| 20:34.27 | DarkriftX | i got that last night |
| 20:34.48 | jasta | VickiWong: normal, maybe. good, no. |
| 20:34.52 | *** join/#android MrSnowflake (n=mrsnowfl@88.197.199.109) |
| 20:35.16 | VickiWong | jasta: thats what i figured, obviously it's an error so it shouldnt be happening, but i do tend to get it frequently |
| 20:37.12 | MrSnowflake | How can I put this animation in xml: |
| 20:37.13 | MrSnowflake | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:37.14 | MrSnowflake | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:37.14 | MrSnowflake | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:37.14 | MrSnowflake | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:37.14 | MrSnowflake | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:37.40 | MrSnowflake | xml has relative_to_self as default type, and I want parent... |
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| 20:38.09 | romainguy__ | MrSnowflake: use the p prefix in the XML |
| 20:38.22 | romainguy__ | like android:start="50%p" |
| 20:38.35 | MrSnowflake | ok, thank you. Is it in the docs? |
| 20:39.05 | romainguy__ | it should be somewhere |
| 20:39.38 | VickiWong | that should be a quote |
| 20:39.51 | MrSnowflake | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:43.58 | VickiWong | Now Playing : Aerosmith - I dont wanna miss a thing - Unkown Album [5:00] |
| 20:44.15 | VickiWong | what a beautiful song |
| 20:45.15 | MrSnowflake | yup |
| 20:46.03 | jasta | oh god :) |
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| 21:13.34 | *** join/#android unix_infidel (n=blue@unaffiliated/unixinfidel/x-8383745) |
| 21:15.53 | vinse | i'm not seeing my debug messages: just got started, running Hello Android and the emulator works fine, the debugger attaches and stops at breakpoints, but i'm not seeing anything in the logcat window in eclipse |
| 21:17.31 | MrSnowflake | have you selected the correct emulator in the ddms perspective? |
| 21:19.00 | VickiWong | vinse - i have this issue with Eclipse, restarting eclipse tends to help |
| 21:19.07 | VickiWong | dunno if thats right solution or not, but works for me |
| 21:19.10 | vinse | i havent selected any emulator in teh ddms perspective ... there's a ddms perspective? |
| 21:19.54 | wastrel | what's ddms? |
| 21:21.37 | jasta | it's a debug tool for android devices |
| 21:21.53 | vinse | VickiWong: restart fixed me :0 |
| 21:22.21 | vinse | looks into openging the ddms perspective |
| 21:22.31 | VickiWong | vinse: your welcome |
| 21:22.40 | unix_infidel | hmm, did tmobile increase the data plan cost in the US? |
| 21:22.57 | unix_infidel | because now it looks like it is exactly as expensive an iPhone plan. |
| 21:24.03 | jasta | wouldnt surprise me |
| 21:24.35 | MrSnowflake | Yeah restarting eclipse saves a lot of time from time to time |
| 21:25.00 | umdk1d3 | gaa /me shakes fist at relative layout |
| 21:25.12 | unix_infidel | internet used to be 25 iirc. now it's 40 |
| 21:25.23 | umdk1d3 | its not listening to my android:gravity="center_vertical" |
| 21:25.29 | umdk1d3 | for its children |
| 21:25.45 | romainguy__ | umdk1d3: RelativeLayout applies its gravity to all the children at the same time |
| 21:25.54 | romainguy__ | it takes the union of the bounds of all the children |
| 21:26.00 | romainguy__ | and then apply the gravity on this |
| 21:26.13 | umdk1d3 | it doesnt seem to be doing it in my case :/ |
| 21:26.19 | umdk1d3 | gathers pastebin |
| 21:26.21 | DarkriftX | do forums show up pretty decent on the g1? |
| 21:27.05 | unix_infidel | jasta: yup, confirmed, according to CNET they did up the price from 25 for "unlimited data / email" to 40 |
| 21:27.20 | *** join/#android summatusmentis (n=summatus@keymaster.tproa.net) |
| 21:27.38 | unix_infidel | it actually looks like AT&T is...cheaper now for voice + data, than T-Mobile. |
| 21:27.40 | unix_infidel | carrier fail. |
| 21:28.03 | umdk1d3 | romainguy__: http://umdk1d3.mine.nu/dump/layout.txt |
| 21:28.06 | umdk1d3 | romainguy__: http://umdk1d3.mine.nu/dump/layout.png |
| 21:31.39 | umdk1d3 | also, it doesnt appear to be related to android:layout_alignParentRight="true" |
| 21:32.59 | umdk1d3 | also removing text2 which is gone doesnt help |
| 21:34.41 | umdk1d3 | ohwait |
| 21:34.45 | umdk1d3 | im setting the text /later/ |
| 21:34.52 | umdk1d3 | tries adding placeholder text |
| 21:35.52 | romainguy__ | umdk1d3: according to your screenshot, it's working |
| 21:36.29 | umdk1d3 | id like text1 to be centered vertically with respect to hint |
| 21:36.42 | umdk1d3 | it appears to just align at the top of hint |
| 21:36.54 | romainguy__ | RelativeLayout doesn't know how to do this |
| 21:37.02 | romainguy__ | well actually you could do this |
| 21:37.10 | romainguy__ | by giving text1 the same height has the hint |
| 21:37.11 | umdk1d3 | oh hmm, i thought gravity would do that |
| 21:37.19 | romainguy__ | and then using android:gravity on the textview |
| 21:37.19 | romainguy__ | no |
| 21:37.21 | romainguy__ | I told you |
| 21:37.33 | romainguy__ | android:gravity on a RelativeLayout applies to all the widgets at once |
| 21:37.38 | romainguy__ | by taking the union of all their bounds |
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| 21:37.46 | umdk1d3 | ohhhhh |
| 21:38.07 | umdk1d3 | it treats them as one block object |
| 21:38.10 | romainguy | yes |
| 21:38.19 | umdk1d3 | :/ |
| 21:38.21 | romainguy | you could align text1 with hint's top and bottom |
| 21:38.24 | romainguy | to make them the same height |
| 21:38.28 | romainguy | then center_vertical within text1 |
| 21:38.37 | umdk1d3 | well i had a linearlayout in there before and was trying to simplify the tree |
| 21:38.43 | umdk1d3 | in some cases tho i have a subtitle in text2 |
| 21:38.49 | umdk1d3 | other times its hidden |
| 21:39.01 | romainguy | maybe I should just add an option in RelativeLayout to center wrt to another view |
| 21:45.14 | VickiWong | i love that feeling, when your app (android or otherwise) doesnt work, and you try loads of different fixes, sometimes taking hours |
| 21:45.19 | VickiWong | and then you get it working |
| 21:45.27 | VickiWong | and everything runs smoothly |
| 21:45.38 | umdk1d3 | :) |
| 21:46.37 | jasta | hmm, if i have a SQLiteDatabase exposed through a ContentProvider, can i also just open the database directly and do stuff on it? i need transaction support badly. |
| 21:51.10 | vinse | VickiWong: are you currently running your app repeatedly w/o making any changes just to watch it execute? is that the feeling you're talking about? |
| 21:52.34 | VickiWong | vinse: no :D im tlaking about the feeling of finally solving a (usually) simple problem after hours upon hours of messing with code |
| 21:55.40 | *** join/#android Yeggstry (n=mind@cpc1-rdng14-0-0-cust946.winn.cable.ntl.com) |
| 22:01.45 | vinse | VickiWong: so was i, then you run the test/page/screen repeatedly just to watch it work ... i guess i'm the only one who does that :/ |
| 22:02.02 | *** join/#android Dialekt (n=Carter@cpe-76-169-85-33.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 22:02.07 | Dialekt | weak. |
| 22:02.21 | *** join/#android kslater (n=kslater@206.193.247.78.nauticom.net) |
| 22:02.23 | Dialekt | i wonder what that day is gonna be like |
| 22:02.24 | Dialekt | lol |
| 22:02.27 | VickiWong | vinse: nah i just jump back into the code and break something else |
| 22:03.00 | *** join/#android DarkriftX (n=AAQWR1@ip68-104-161-224.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 22:09.08 | *** join/#android commonsguy (n=chatzill@70.44.71.92.res-cmts.sm.ptd.net) |
| 22:15.24 | unix_infidel | I wonder, if those who pre-ordered w/ contract got locked into the $25 a month data plan instead of the new $40 dollar a month hike in anticipation of tuesday. |
| 22:16.01 | ttuttle | Wait, price hike? |
| 22:16.05 | ttuttle | Also, what's Tuesday? |
| 22:21.09 | *** join/#android tomgibara_ (n=tom@gibara.demon.co.uk) |
| 22:25.55 | jasta | ttuttle: apparently t-mobile has changed their unlimited data pricing (by a lot) |
| 22:26.02 | romainguy | what's the source? |
| 22:26.12 | summatusmentis | jasta: up, I assume |
| 22:26.17 | summatusmentis | oh, didn't read back far enough |
| 22:26.29 | ttuttle | jasta: oh? |
| 22:26.40 | jasta | according to CNET, i guess. hang on, ill see if i can find it |
| 22:27.07 | jasta | unix_infidel just started ranting about it |
| 22:27.27 | DarkriftX | anyone here know if forums display decent on g1 browsers? |
| 22:27.52 | jasta | meh, i cant quickly find a reference, so unix_infidel might have just made it up |
| 22:28.03 | romainguy | I looked on CNET already and couldn't find anything |
| 22:28.23 | jasta | maybe muthu just changed his nick again. hehe |
| 22:28.45 | *** join/#android PoohbaLT (n=Poohba@c-98-235-52-97.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 22:28.47 | DarkriftX | im in the process of converting my downloads section to forum topics with direct links because my download module was very UN-device-friendly |
| 22:29.57 | Dialekt | hmm.. |
| 22:30.02 | Dialekt | Darkrift that I know? |
| 22:30.36 | tomgibara_ | How does the pricing breakdown in the US, I don't really understand - this $25 (or $40) is on top of the standard call plan, yes? |
| 22:30.43 | romainguy | yes |
| 22:31.26 | *** join/#android mav_ (i=mav@c-98-201-123-154.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 22:31.36 | romainguy | unix_infidel: where did you see this $40 plan? |
| 22:31.41 | tomgibara_ | And how much might a 'voice plan' cost (if that's what it's called)? |
| 22:31.52 | DarkriftX | sup Dialekt |
| 22:31.55 | DarkriftX | i run into you everywhere |
| 22:31.57 | summatusmentis | tomgibara_: I think 200 mins on T-Mob is $30/mo |
| 22:32.07 | summatusmentis | don't quote me on that though |
| 22:32.08 | Dialekt | lol |
| 22:32.25 | Dialekt | so you're fanboing this platform now? |
| 22:32.35 | *** join/#android dims (n=dims@c-76-24-122-109.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 22:32.38 | DarkriftX | lol |
| 22:32.39 | tomgibara_ | and that covers all the monthly charges? |
| 22:33.01 | Dialekt | *hint @ Darkrift : roger that sir |
| 22:33.10 | DarkriftX | ive been trying to go from wm to a linux based mobile platform for a while |
| 22:33.13 | summatusmentis | tomgibara_: that'll give you 200 minutes. If you want sms/mms, it's another $5-$15 on top of that |
| 22:33.19 | Dialekt | why not iPhone? |
| 22:33.22 | DarkriftX | and this seems like its what im looking for |
| 22:33.26 | DarkriftX | too limited |
| 22:33.47 | Dialekt | dont tell me that |
| 22:33.51 | romainguy | tomgibara: to give you an idea, for 2 lines, 700 shared minutes, + 5 unlimited number, + unlimited nights & week end, unlimited SMS and unlimited data, I pay $110 |
| 22:33.52 | DarkriftX | dont want to have to call up apple to ask permission to use something lol |
| 22:33.57 | summatusmentis | Dialekt: don't get me started on 'why not iPhone' |
| 22:34.05 | Dialekt | summatusmentis: START |
| 22:34.09 | Dialekt | START |
| 22:34.12 | ttuttle | no |
| 22:34.14 | ttuttle | god |
| 22:34.14 | tomgibara_ | okay, thanks for the info |
| 22:34.17 | ttuttle | please no |
| 22:34.24 | Dialekt | ttuttle: hush... |
| 22:34.27 | ttuttle | ;-) |
| 22:34.29 | Dialekt | it has to happen at least once a week |
| 22:34.30 | Dialekt | lol |
| 22:34.40 | Dialekt | I don't wanna switch to t-mobile |
| 22:34.43 | tweakt | stereo bluetooth will be supported eventually right? I seem to recall the API just wasn't ready in time for launch? |
| 22:34.53 | DarkriftX | yes tweakt |
| 22:34.54 | Dialekt | and the Storm is coming in terms of blackberry |
| 22:35.02 | ttuttle | Dialekt: Then don't switch :-P |
| 22:35.07 | DarkriftX | from what i read it will be a few weeks after launch before added bt functionality is added |
| 22:35.11 | summatusmentis | I like Apple products, a lot, but I will NEVER buy an iPhone. That's all I'm going to say on the subject :) |
| 22:35.16 | ttuttle | summatusmentis++ |
| 22:35.48 | MrSnowflake | should I avoid using an Activity with a ListView instead of a ListActivity? |
| 22:35.51 | tweakt | can't wait for the possibilities of apps for that |
| 22:36.06 | Dialekt | WEAK. |
| 22:37.17 | summatusmentis | Dialekt: I'd like people like ttuttle to like me, so that at some point in the future, they can put in a good word for me wrt to hiring :) |
| 22:37.38 | Dialekt | wrt? |
| 22:37.41 | Dialekt | umm..ok |
| 22:37.49 | summatusmentis | with regard to |
| 22:38.13 | Dialekt | anyhow... i think the iphone community is so much mature which is what keeps me not neccesarily biased but torn. |
| 22:38.21 | Dialekt | but the same could be said for Symbian.. |
| 22:38.31 | Dialekt | but symbian doesn't have enough logic |
| 22:39.51 | romainguy | MrSnowflake: should I avoid using an Activity with a ListView instead of a ListActivity? << no, you can go with either |
| 22:40.00 | romainguy | ListActivity is a really thin wrapper around Activity |
| 22:40.03 | romainguy | it doesn't do much really |
| 22:40.18 | mav_ | I would hope something thats been out for 14 months woudl be more mature then something that hasnt been released yet. |
| 22:40.30 | umdk1d3 | it does help with android:id/empty if your adapter doesnt provide anything |
| 22:40.40 | Dialekt | does copy and paste work for the entire OS similar to blackberry or any major windows mobile device? |
| 22:40.47 | romainguy | umdk1d3: you can do the same without ListActivity |
| 22:40.55 | Dialekt | or is it limited to simple things like web browser "copy and paste url" etc |
| 22:40.56 | romainguy | again, ListActivity is just a thin convenience wrapper |
| 22:40.56 | umdk1d3 | right, but it helps manage that code |
| 22:41.02 | romainguy | not really :) |
| 22:41.04 | Dialekt | or is there a proper cursor, etc? |
| 22:41.10 | MrSnowflake | romainguy: That's what I thought, thanks again! |
| 22:41.53 | umdk1d3 | romainguy: also, does ListActivity.getListView() cache the findViewById result? |
| 22:42.10 | romainguy | it does |
| 22:42.14 | romainguy | again, thin wrapper |
| 22:42.20 | romainguy | the source code of ListActivity is really short |
| 22:42.57 | Dialekt | G1 is released on Nov 10? |
| 22:43.03 | Dialekt | or is that only for pre-order non hassle? |
| 22:43.11 | Dialekt | can i do the disgusting camp out for one? |
| 22:43.12 | Dialekt | lol |
| 22:43.26 | ttuttle | Dialekt: Please bring deodorant if you do. |
| 22:43.38 | Dialekt | i do simple campouts |
| 22:43.42 | Dialekt | because i DJ @ night |
| 22:43.47 | ttuttle | Oh, cool. |
| 22:43.49 | Dialekt | so i end up going around like 2 anyway |
| 22:43.59 | Dialekt | the iphone campout was quite pleasant |
| 22:44.07 | Dialekt | had an aritcle write-up too |
| 22:44.17 | Dialekt | in my field we deal with tons of celebs and stuff |
| 22:44.28 | Dialekt | they are so stuck on the blackberry that its sad..some on the iPhone |
| 22:44.33 | languish | Dialekt, G1's released this tues. you can buy one at a tmo corporate store |
| 22:44.46 | languish | assuming you get there before they run out of stock |
| 22:44.51 | Dialekt | languish: is there mac synching capability or no? |
| 22:45.03 | DarkriftX | syncing is done via online services |
| 22:45.04 | languish | there is no desktop sync yet other than 3rd party |
| 22:45.08 | Dialekt | that would probably be my first thing to look for or else i'd come how sad. |
| 22:45.16 | Dialekt | via online services as in ? |
| 22:45.20 | DarkriftX | gmail |
| 22:45.21 | Dialekt | some crazy exchange setup? |
| 22:45.22 | ttuttle | Dialekt: Google Account. |
| 22:45.22 | languish | it's sync's with the network "cloud" aka: google services |
| 22:45.27 | Dialekt | whoa.. |
| 22:45.34 | DarkriftX | google calendar, gmail etc |
| 22:45.34 | languish | btw Dialekt whois me |
| 22:45.41 | Dialekt | but i dont have my google contacts synched because its a nightmare |
| 22:45.59 | Dialekt | :) |
| 22:46.20 | languish | the G1 is heavily based around google services |
| 22:46.23 | Dialekt | I would really love to sync my contacts with google/gmail but i'm scared as hell..and i got 3 email accounts |
| 22:46.29 | Dialekt | damn. |
| 22:46.47 | languish | I've been using them... I'm pretty happy with it |
| 22:46.57 | languish | it being the google range of service |
| 22:47.01 | Dialekt | push email on the g1? |
| 22:47.09 | languish | for 1 gmail account yes |
| 22:47.16 | mav_ | does anyone know if it syncs with non @gmail.com google emails? I have my domain hosted there.. |
| 22:47.16 | Dialekt | sad |
| 22:47.17 | Dialekt | :( |
| 22:47.20 | Dialekt | but polls on the rest? |
| 22:47.26 | languish | the phone syncs with a single primary gmail account. |
| 22:47.29 | umdk1d3 | well, and its push for other email acct if you fwd them to your gmail |
| 22:47.29 | languish | for now, yes |
| 22:47.40 | Dialekt | i think android could be big |
| 22:47.42 | languish | there may be push for other accounts later |
| 22:47.46 | Dialekt | and sadly force apple to step it up |
| 22:47.50 | Dialekt | but then what? |
| 22:47.53 | Dialekt | A WAR? |
| 22:48.07 | languish | no, just consumers as winners, for awhile |
| 22:48.24 | languish | also, keep in mind.. android will not be homogenous across carriers |
| 22:48.32 | Dialekt | what u mean? |
| 22:48.33 | languish | each carrier will be able to taylor it as they see fit |
| 22:48.37 | Dialekt | oh |
| 22:48.44 | Dialekt | like the carrier bloatware on most pdas? |
| 22:48.48 | languish | it's linux, and it'll be open source |
| 22:48.56 | Dialekt | that's pretty amazing |
| 22:49.00 | languish | they can restrict it or enhance it as they see fit |
| 22:49.05 | Dialekt | restrict?! |
| 22:49.12 | DarkriftX | just like wm |
| 22:49.16 | Dialekt | oh i see |
| 22:49.18 | DarkriftX | carriers try to disable stuff all the time |
| 22:49.18 | languish | yep, they will modify the OS the way they want |
| 22:49.24 | DarkriftX | but most ppl can fix that easily |
| 22:49.27 | Dialekt | DarkriftX: you trying to make me camp out aren't you! |
| 22:49.30 | Dialekt | oh no! |
| 22:49.33 | DarkriftX | no |
| 22:49.37 | Dialekt | my iphone 3G is so beautiful |
| 22:49.38 | languish | Dialekt, mine's arriving tomorrow |
| 22:49.43 | Dialekt | languish.. |
| 22:49.45 | Dialekt | i'm scared |
| 22:49.46 | languish | ask me Wed. what I think about it |
| 22:49.57 | Dialekt | i'm gonna camp out i bet i will |
| 22:50.01 | Dialekt | comes in white and black right? |
| 22:50.07 | Dialekt | any answers for the copy and paste features |
| 22:50.16 | languish | wite black anf bronze/brown |
| 22:50.38 | DarkriftX | languish, you gonna be my site tester once you get it? lol |
| 22:50.47 | languish | copy paste works sensibly in and across most applications |
| 22:50.51 | Dialekt | bronze brown whoa??! |
| 22:50.56 | Dialekt | when? |
| 22:51.00 | languish | but it's still a work in progress |
| 22:51.04 | languish | tuesday |
| 22:52.15 | languish | DarkriftX, sure I'll help you out |
| 22:52.24 | DarkriftX | :) |
| 22:52.36 | DarkriftX | i found a g1 user earlier who helped me by telling me my downlaods dont work lol |
| 22:52.40 | tomgibara_ | Does anyone know if you can associate the G1 with a Google "Apps for domains" email account ? |
| 22:52.40 | Dialekt | no accelormertor? |
| 22:52.46 | languish | i'll initialize it with a dummy acount at first to test shit |
| 22:52.49 | tomgibara_ | Or does it have to be a gmail account? |
| 22:52.52 | Dialekt | WHOA |
| 22:52.55 | Dialekt | this stinks |
| 22:53.04 | languish | then reset it and initialize it later with my regular account |
| 22:53.07 | DarkriftX | so im in the progress of moving my downloads to the forum as seperate topics with direct links to the downloads |
| 22:53.13 | Dialekt | no landscape mode without keyboard = so so so sad |
| 22:53.32 | DarkriftX | erm? |
| 22:53.36 | languish | Dialekt, an app is in development to landscape without keyboard |
| 22:53.48 | Dialekt | yeah but is there no acc.? |
| 22:53.53 | languish | uhh there is |
| 22:54.09 | tomgibara_ | Dialekt: Not exactly true, apps can display activities in landscape if they choose |
| 22:54.24 | tomgibara_ | even if the keyboard is shut |
| 22:54.26 | Dialekt | yeah but |
| 22:54.46 | Dialekt | you guys got me riled up |
| 22:55.04 | Dialekt | is there a virtual keyboard!? |
| 22:55.09 | *** join/#android BBHoss (n=bbhoss@c-68-62-170-33.hsd1.al.comcast.net) |
| 22:55.18 | Dialekt | so if you want to use the device closed |
| 22:55.18 | languish | no virtual keyboar,d but there will be one as an app, likely free |
| 22:55.39 | tomgibara_ | Dialekt: Not yet, it's going to need a newer version of android |
| 22:55.40 | languish | just assume any common sense thing you want, will be dev'd |
| 22:55.54 | Dialekt | i need to use my iphone for the next 2 days to make sure I want to switch to t-mobile |
| 22:55.59 | Dialekt | i love the voice quality of t-mobile |
| 22:56.01 | languish | the g1 is a 1.0 device, bare bones with some awesome features |
| 22:56.07 | Dialekt | and my phone didn't BUZZ like AT&T |
| 22:56.12 | Dialekt | half HMR crap |
| 22:56.32 | languish | as time goes on, both the OS and available apps will inprove its functionality |
| 22:56.49 | tomgibara_ | languish: To properly support a sw keyboard, it will require new features in the framework |
| 22:56.52 | languish | the iphone didn't release all that awesome either |
| 22:56.59 | languish | tomgibara. noted |
| 22:57.12 | languish | I'm sure it'll come soon enough |
| 22:57.21 | tomgibara_ | I hope so |
| 22:57.49 | languish | I'm more interested in japanese input |
| 22:57.52 | languish | for my wife |
| 22:58.26 | languish | it's the one thing I'm not so confident they'll port over from japan |
| 22:58.38 | languish | at least not soon |
| 22:58.40 | languish | but hope they do |
| 22:59.23 | commonsguy | you guys have been sayin' Tuesday for the G1, but all I'm seeing on the Web is Wednesday |
| 22:59.25 | commonsguy | which is it? |
| 22:59.31 | languish | sorry my bad |
| 22:59.33 | languish | it's wed |
| 22:59.36 | languish | i'm a day off |
| 22:59.40 | languish | it's the 22nd |
| 22:59.47 | commonsguy | whew -- thought i was going to camp the wrong day! |
| 22:59.49 | commonsguy | ;-) |
| 23:00.12 | languish | damn, i shouldn't have said anything, and gotten to see you on some human interest news piece |
| 23:00.15 | languish | lol |
| 23:00.23 | DarkriftX | LOL |
| 23:00.30 | commonsguy | holding sign "will write Android books for G1" |
| 23:00.46 | DarkriftX | "Will please your wife for a G1" |
| 23:01.21 | languish | I'm seriously disappointed in google's lack of foresight in to assuring active contributors didn't get dibs on the hardware |
| 23:01.51 | languish | then again, it's mostly devs that are likely pre-ordering it in the first place |
| 23:01.55 | *** join/#android brylie (n=sunflowe@76.250.251.250) |
| 23:02.10 | languish | most of the general public still hasn't even heard of it in any manner that means something to them |
| 23:02.13 | commonsguy | yeah, but pre-orders were only for existing T-Mo customers, right? |
| 23:02.15 | brylie | How do I load one of the example Android applications and launch it, using Eclipse? |
| 23:02.35 | languish | commonsguy, technically yes, but people were able to sign up and get it |
| 23:02.57 | commonsguy | urk |
| 23:03.00 | languish | there was a lot of miscommunication from t-mobile's side on the launch |
| 23:03.05 | languish | as usual |
| 23:03.30 | commonsguy | ah, well, i wanted to schlep into Philly, anyway... |
| 23:03.41 | languish | t-mobile launching the first device is a mixed blessing |
| 23:03.50 | brylie | I have installed Android, Eclipse and the Eclipse plugin. We need to launch an Android application, such as nootebook. How do we import the file to launch via run? |
| 23:03.57 | languish | their ineptness in some areas is what's allowing this to happen in the first place |
| 23:04.09 | languish | but at the same time, they make things frustrating |
| 23:04.39 | commonsguy | brylie: if the sample has an Eclipse project file, it should just open, I would think |
| 23:04.46 | commonsguy | of course, I'm not an Eclipse user |
| 23:04.50 | commonsguy | nor do I play one on TV |
| 23:04.57 | languish | they need to stop hiring key positions based on religion and start filling them based on proven ability |
| 23:05.33 | brylie | commonsguy, there are xml files in the sample directory. Would src be a better folder to look? |
| 23:05.39 | languish | downside to having a devout mormon as president of a company |
| 23:05.40 | languish | :| |
| 23:06.01 | Dialekt | mn |
| 23:06.26 | brylie | there are several .java files, several subfolders deep, in the src directory. |
| 23:06.59 | commonsguy | brylie: Java source is stored by package (e.g., com/commonsware/android/sample/WickedCool.java) |
| 23:07.51 | brylie | ok, so which file do we need in order to execute the demonstration application? xml? |
| 23:08.24 | commonsguy | to execute? you need an APK, usually stored in bin/, after you build the project (inside or outside Eclipse) |
| 23:08.45 | commonsguy | have you gone through the tutorials on http://code.google.com/android ? |
| 23:09.45 | brylie | Looking at the HelloAndroid tutorial. I just thought one of the demonstration applications could be executed easly. |
| 23:10.23 | commonsguy | it may be they can -- again, I'm not an Eclipse user, so I don't have step-by-step instructions for loading an existing project |
| 23:12.43 | brylie | ok, thanks |
| 23:16.18 | brylie | can I just launch an AndroidManifest.xml from BASH command line to see the application? |
| 23:16.29 | brylie | Eclipse is weirding out here. |
| 23:17.00 | commonsguy | no, you need to install the APK in the Android emulator |
| 23:17.56 | *** join/#android waldo_ (n=waldo@cpe-76-170-48-18.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 23:18.50 | brylie | ok, we skipped that because it said optional. I'll go back |
| 23:19.18 | waldo_ | hey can anyone help a total java/eclipse/android newbie with a fairly simple question? |
| 23:19.32 | waldo_ | (assuming anyone's here) |
| 23:19.52 | summatusmentis | I may be able to help on java/eclipse |
| 23:19.57 | waldo_ | okay... here goes then |
| 23:20.05 | waldo_ | basically I'm trying to teach myself java on the android... |
| 23:20.12 | summatusmentis | right |
| 23:20.34 | waldo_ | learning java/android and eclipse all at once... anyway.. |
| 23:21.06 | waldo_ | so when I learn a new language first thing I usually write is a little game called "number guesser" .. .it asks for your name and then picks a random # from 1 to 100 and then lets you guess and says "higher/lower" until you get it... |
| 23:21.17 | waldo_ | a decent program to learn basic stuff. |
| 23:21.22 | waldo_ | okay so here's the question |
| 23:21.59 | waldo_ | I want to have the first thing it do is say something like "What's your name?" and you type it in, and it responds with "GREAT, YOURNAME... I'm thinking of a # from 1 to 100..." etc. |
| 23:21.59 | summatusmentis | right |
| 23:22.14 | waldo_ | this means i need to stop the execution flow and wait for input |
| 23:22.24 | waldo_ | but the way you design a UI in android.... |
| 23:22.37 | waldo_ | you make the view/layout and put some buttons and edittext widgets |
| 23:22.48 | waldo_ | and then whent he user fills out the form and hits return it calls a method.. |
| 23:23.10 | unix_infidel | romainguy: it's called the T-Mobile Total Internet Plan on their website. |
| 23:23.23 | waldo_ | how do I basically stop one method from running to wait for the user to enter something in another edittext widget, and then when they're done, come back for more execution? |
| 23:23.46 | summatusmentis | ok, no idea :) |
| 23:23.47 | summatusmentis | sorry |
| 23:23.51 | waldo_ | I made a UI that looks like a little console-- text on top and an "input bar" at the bottom... kinda like this irc chat |
| 23:24.01 | waldo_ | anyone here have an idea? |
| 23:24.18 | commonsguy | waldo_ : this feels like a square peg/round hole situation |
| 23:24.32 | waldo_ | I know it feels "wrong" in some way for the way the language is laid out, huh? |
| 23:24.53 | commonsguy | let's change this around -- have you implemented this program in any other GUI? |
| 23:24.54 | waldo_ | I'm used to procedural languages... but still, there's gotta be a way to do this I would think?! |
| 23:25.01 | waldo_ | I did a long time ago in objective c |
| 23:25.07 | waldo_ | for OS X |
| 23:25.15 | waldo_ | but I did it differently-- I did it with a different UI.. |
| 23:25.21 | waldo_ | mostly I've written this as a console game |
| 23:25.57 | commonsguy | if you want to do this using your IRC-style UI, you'll need to go event-driven |
| 23:26.01 | waldo_ | you understand the idea of the game tho--- user enters their name... computer says I'm thinking of a random # from 1 to 100. Guess.. users says 3 and it says "the numbe rI'm thinking of is higher" and it goes over and over, counting the guesses unitl the user gets it. |
| 23:26.16 | commonsguy | either a "Send" button or detect <Enter> keys in the text entry field |
| 23:26.27 | waldo_ | well that's how the android SDK seems to work |
| 23:26.31 | commonsguy | on those events, you push your state machine forward a step based on what they typed in |
| 23:26.52 | commonsguy | it's not the most natural Android UI, but it should work |
| 23:26.57 | waldo_ | commonsguy... I'm not sure how to set up that state machine you describe... |
| 23:27.17 | waldo_ | but that's what I want to learn to do... |
| 23:27.35 | commonsguy | your application is logically in one of several states: pre-name, pre-first-guess, pre-second-guess, etc. |
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| 23:27.57 | commonsguy | since you want a single UI element (the IRC text-entry field) to be the sole driver, you need to track state somewhere |
| 23:28.22 | waldo_ | commonsguy interesting-- yeah this kinda seemed right.. but in a program, how do you characterize these states and control flow...? |
| 23:28.42 | waldo_ | for example, first guess and second guess are going to be essentially the same process with different variables... so what "calls" them? |
| 23:28.57 | commonsguy | how about we change your UI around a pinch? |
| 23:29.10 | waldo_ | sure... how for a game like this do you see the UI being laid out? |
| 23:29.12 | commonsguy | would you consider a dialog box for the name, then a single "guess" field and submit button |
| 23:29.27 | waldo_ | I actually was playing with dialog boxes a little.. |
| 23:29.33 | commonsguy | plus a TextView (or popup dialog) to show the results of the guess |
| 23:29.46 | waldo_ | so you see the game as a series of dailog boxes popping up |
| 23:29.52 | waldo_ | ? |
| 23:30.05 | commonsguy | well, i see the game as being a somewhat contrived example ;-) |
| 23:30.28 | waldo_ | well maybe I need to reconceive of how the game would "make sense" |
| 23:30.42 | waldo_ | again I'm used to procedural programming.... |
| 23:30.44 | commonsguy | in <5 minutes of design time, having the main activity focus on guesses/responses and delegating the name to a dialog or something is one approach |
| 23:31.00 | commonsguy | in all honesty, Android is not the best environment for learning Java |
| 23:31.19 | commonsguy | for example, your app would work great in a console Java app, using stdin/studout |
| 23:31.24 | waldo_ | right... |
| 23:31.26 | commonsguy | s/studout/stdout/ |
| 23:31.37 | Dialekt | bbl |
| 23:31.52 | commonsguy | i'd learn Java using a more traditional environment before diving into Android |
| 23:32.09 | commonsguy | unless you're desperate |
| 23:32.11 | waldo_ | well I figure how it might work w/console |
| 23:32.37 | waldo_ | I'm not desperate but I think this is about learning the Android framework as much as anythin.. it's kind of why I'm learnign this.. (get my g1 next month I think) |
| 23:32.49 | commonsguy | that's cool |
| 23:33.02 | commonsguy | you might want to try a different starter app, though, one that is more in tune with a GUI implementation |
| 23:33.15 | commonsguy | your game would seem to fit best with a console UI |
| 23:33.16 | waldo_ | but maybe i need eithe ra new "first program" to write or think of a new UI that might make more sense OR think about how to do it with "states |
| 23:33.38 | commonsguy | in fact, I seem to recall that game from my TRS-80 days, back when I had hair on my head and none on my chin |
| 23:33.45 | waldo_ | commons yeah it's the first program I write in almost every language I've learned... but they all use traditional console-like output |
| 23:33.57 | waldo_ | commons yup I think I first wrote it in Applesoft :) |
| 23:34.40 | waldo_ | I've written this same application I think in... BASIC, Pascal, C, Perl... uh... Objective-C (with a totally different UI I wish I could remember it!) |
| 23:34.47 | commonsguy | so, you might try a password safe, or a notepad, or a tip calculator, or something else that is sample-app-ish yet more GUI in nature |
| 23:35.23 | waldo_ | that sounds good.. |
| 23:35.46 | waldo_ | wierd tho that something so simple doesn't have an easy translation into this UI... |
| 23:36.04 | DarkriftX | lol, trash 80 |
| 23:36.09 | DarkriftX | i had one of those :) |
| 23:36.16 | DarkriftX | i learned basic when i was 5-6 on one of those |
| 23:36.23 | waldo_ | I had a Commodore PET at school ;) |
| 23:36.57 | waldo_ | hmm.. thinking about this state thing... |
| 23:37.00 | waldo_ | mabe you do it like this |
| 23:37.14 | waldo_ | so you have the text-entry button at the bottom... if it gets clicked it calls whatever method that could say like.... |
| 23:37.47 | waldo_ | if state = askforname --> go to something method. if state = playinggame--> go to takeaguess method, etc.. |
| 23:38.02 | commonsguy | right |
| 23:38.05 | waldo_ | in other words, use the edittext listener method to drive everything |
| 23:38.09 | commonsguy | right |
| 23:38.16 | waldo_ | and then have it advance the "state" as the program executes |
| 23:38.19 | commonsguy | yup |
| 23:38.28 | waldo_ | wow that seems backwards but it might work! |
| 23:39.16 | waldo_ | thanks commonsguy that's kinda briliant! It's like looking at the program from a weird angle, but it's cool nonetheless |
| 23:39.26 | commonsguy | happy to help |
| 23:39.33 | waldo_ | wow I'm kind of excited to try it! |
| 23:40.11 | waldo_ | so I'd initialize and say like "state = 1" and then let it advance with every text-entry. only when the input is "acceptable" does it advance to state+1.... |
| 23:40.34 | waldo_ | and then if I add "want to play again?" and they say "yes" or "y" or whatever... then state goes back up to 1 or 2 or whatever. |
| 23:40.46 | waldo_ | it's like line numbers in BASIC! |
| 23:41.08 | waldo_ | it seems so wrong... but I like it! |
| 23:42.51 | waldo_ | tx again |
| 23:44.14 | commonsguy | you might be better served using objects for each state vs. integers |
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| 23:46.33 | commonsguy | here is a fairly decent writeup of the state pattern applied in Java: http://www.informit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=28677 |
| 23:46.39 | waldo_ | i'll take a look.. |
| 23:46.59 | waldo_ | you're saying a separate object containing what-- the methods for what I mean...? |
| 23:47.29 | waldo_ | thanks.. I'll definitely read ths... |
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