| 00:00.23 | *** join/#android bmunger_ (n=bmunger@169.139.115.235) |
| 00:01.23 | d0nets | where is this "AudioTrack" you speak of tweakt? |
| 00:02.22 | *** join/#android thoraxe (n=thoraxe@c-76-122-89-182.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 00:03.41 | tweakt_ | I would expect the Java APIs get expanded in later releases |
| 00:06.11 | d0nets | well shiese, i just want a guitar tuner |
| 00:06.18 | d0nets | im tired of using this app on my laptop |
| 00:06.26 | d0nets | its java, i wanna port to android |
| 00:06.50 | d0nets | i guess ill just wait for splashplay |
| 00:06.56 | d0nets | they are supposed to release a guitar version |
| 00:07.01 | d0nets | but not till 2009 |
| 00:07.04 | andyross | AudioTrack is a C++ class, it's not in the official API. |
| 00:07.12 | d0nets | oh |
| 00:08.13 | d0nets | lol im in class and we just spend 15 mins talking about open source and how people dedicate their time to give us free crap |
| 00:08.40 | danfuzz | is dedicated to YOU |
| 00:08.54 | *** part/#android theCarpenter (n=virtualm@v-umnet-vpn-4-80.umnet.umich.edu) |
| 00:08.56 | d0nets | lol |
| 00:09.45 | *** join/#android lresende (n=luckbr19@198.80.6.3) |
| 00:09.46 | danfuzz | and do you ever send me flowers or chocolate? |
| 00:09.49 | danfuzz | alas |
| 00:10.30 | d0nets | lol |
| 00:10.32 | d0nets | "import javax.sound.sampled.AudioFormat;" |
| 00:11.04 | d0nets | what about setAudioStreamType(int) |
| 00:11.18 | d0nets | in media player |
| 00:12.11 | d0nets | nevermind, i dunno what im talking aboot |
| 00:16.03 | ionstorm | damn invisible shield is hard as fuq to install, took me an hr lol |
| 00:23.07 | *** join/#android ionstorm (n=ion@75-171-7-42.phnx.qwest.net) |
| 00:26.28 | d0nets | damnit |
| 00:26.42 | d0nets | all of the open java tuners i have found use javax.sound |
| 00:29.04 | *** join/#android cbeust (n=cbeust@69.36.227.135) |
| 00:29.43 | *** join/#android wastrel (n=wastrel@nylug/member/wastrel) |
| 00:31.04 | wastrel | hi, has anyone taken a look at the fbreaderj source? |
| 00:34.45 | *** join/#android mocsrox (n=wliu@c-24-6-189-189.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 00:35.57 | *** join/#android sjschultze (n=sjschult@c-24-218-166-109.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 00:36.17 | digitalspaghetti | hrmm, the barcode reader can't read complex qrcodes with text |
| 00:36.25 | DannyB_ | can you? |
| 00:36.26 | digitalspaghetti | just seems with urls or phone numbers |
| 00:37.14 | digitalspaghetti | anyway, bedtime |
| 00:38.34 | *** join/#android Gary|thinkpad (n=Gary1357@c-66-41-234-235.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 00:40.01 | *** join/#android meoblast001 (n=meoblast@dynamic-acs-24-239-93-241.zoominternet.net) |
| 00:41.13 | mocsrox | anyone have experience w/ using getChangingConfigurations on the Activity? |
| 00:41.13 | KNY | alright, if I install version 1 of my app via Market, adb install -r MyApp.apk should run my contentprovider's onUpgrade() right? |
| 00:41.17 | *** join/#android Adamant (n=Adamant@c-98-244-152-196.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
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| 00:54.23 | tweakt_ | Can MediaRecorder save audio to .WAV format? |
| 00:55.07 | tweakt_ | All I see is DEFAULT and 3GPP ? |
| 00:55.07 | oyeoj | lols @ GRAVITY_DEATH_STAR_I |
| 00:55.19 | tweakt_ | oyeoj, heh, yeah I spotted that too ;-) |
| 00:55.58 | oyeoj | that whole file is hilarious |
| 00:56.14 | oyeoj | int SENSOR_TRICORDER |
| 00:56.49 | oyeoj | i guess i could handle edge-cases for when android phones are not used on earth |
| 00:57.09 | *** join/#android wayne (n=overflow@81-179-2-55.dsl.pipex.com) |
| 00:57.58 | wayne | cool irc on the G1 nicely |
| 00:58.03 | *** join/#android mikez6 (n=lockwood@pool-72-93-80-103.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 00:58.15 | wayne | anyone taking |
| 00:58.25 | sodenrox | what are you using? |
| 00:58.50 | wayne | jmirc |
| 00:59.07 | wayne | working great |
| 00:59.42 | KNY | how does Android detect when it needs to upgrade the database? |
| 01:00.02 | tweakt_ | hmm, I'd been using ConnectBot to my home system, and a console IRC client there running from screen |
| 01:00.20 | tweakt_ | it's nice cause I can disconnect/reconnect but remain signed in |
| 01:02.28 | wayne | cool tried to get the worpress app to install |
| 01:02.59 | brocktice | wayne: Yeah it appears to have a busted manifest |
| 01:03.01 | brocktice | I reported it |
| 01:03.12 | brocktice | Actually the manifest is a db file of some kind. Some wires must have been crossed |
| 01:03.47 | *** join/#android herriojr (n=Miranda@65.173.101.2) |
| 01:04.06 | wayne | shame i had problems using the browser to write blogs with wordpress but sussed it now |
| 01:04.11 | herriojr | since I can only download a zip of the source code for the eclipse plugin, how do I go about checking in my changes? |
| 01:08.35 | KNY | herriojr, work for google? :) |
| 01:08.58 | KNY | you'd have to submit a patch and see if they accept it |
| 01:09.12 | kRutOn | ls |
| 01:09.14 | *** join/#android Dialekt (n=Carter@cpe-98-148-99-126.socal.res.rr.com) |
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| 01:13.21 | oyeoj | hm |
| 01:13.24 | oyeoj | init.goldfish.rc? |
| 01:13.46 | spikebike | different phone/platform |
| 01:13.48 | spikebike | it's not run |
| 01:13.52 | spikebike | g1=trout |
| 01:13.58 | spikebike | goldish is somehting else |
| 01:14.30 | donomo | with wifimanager.startScan(), what is the callback method when its done? the docs seem vague |
| 01:17.30 | wastrel | what's the correct way to import an android app source tree as an eclipse package? |
| 01:20.43 | zhobbs | wastrel: I've been wondering that too... |
| 01:21.24 | *** join/#android sfuentes (n=sfuentes@lgb-static-216.70.167.177.mpowercom.net) |
| 01:21.39 | romainguy | well you don't use the SDK :) |
| 01:21.41 | zhobbs | wastrel: you can do a standard "new project from existing source" if the app doesn't use any internal/hidden APIs |
| 01:21.57 | romainguy | just don't use the SDK |
| 01:22.03 | *** join/#android scarabx (n=scarabx@c-98-216-52-33.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 01:22.11 | romainguy | compile and deploying an app from the tree is really easy from the shell |
| 01:22.13 | romainguy | just type: |
| 01:22.18 | romainguy | mmm path/to/app && adb sync |
| 01:22.21 | *** join/#android neerhaj (i=chatzill@203.115.94.253) |
| 01:22.41 | wastrel | you named a command mmm |
| 01:22.56 | romainguy | yeah |
| 01:22.58 | romainguy | m |
| 01:22.58 | romainguy | mm |
| 01:22.59 | romainguy | and mmm |
| 01:23.04 | romainguy | m is just make |
| 01:23.13 | zhobbs | mmm apps/donuts |
| 01:23.14 | romainguy | mm is make for the makefile in the currenct directory |
| 01:23.19 | romainguy | (m is for the entire tree) |
| 01:23.23 | romainguy | and mmm is to make a specific path |
| 01:23.35 | wastrel | it also means yummy |
| 01:23.36 | wastrel | mmm |
| 01:23.42 | romainguy | actually the command I usually use is mmm path/app snod && adb sync |
| 01:23.48 | herriojr | KNY: I don't want to work for google |
| 01:23.54 | romainguy | snod will recreate the system.img for flashing/the emulator |
| 01:23.58 | geist | i thought that was mmmm |
| 01:23.59 | sfuentes | excuse me for asking, but is there direct access to the shell from the g1 phone? |
| 01:24.22 | zhobbs | sfuentes: there's an app in the market called "Terminal Emulator" |
| 01:24.23 | KNY | sfuentes, there (is? was?) an exploit to get it |
| 01:24.28 | wastrel | is |
| 01:24.30 | herriojr | sfuentes: no, but there's an app |
| 01:24.41 | sfuentes | awesome |
| 01:24.55 | herriojr | sfuentes: unless you root the phone, you don't have much access to anything |
| 01:25.00 | *** join/#android Dis_G1 (n=dis@sigkill.net) |
| 01:25.05 | oyeoj | i cant figure out what user i am in the term tho |
| 01:25.12 | oyeoj | whoami is permission denied |
| 01:25.22 | Dis_G1 | id |
| 01:25.28 | herriojr | oyeoj: look for the root hack, it's really simple |
| 01:25.39 | sfuentes | but most likely future updates will remove access, right? |
| 01:26.05 | oyeoj | hmm id 10049 |
| 01:26.17 | wastrel | they're still not finished rolling out the first update so you have some time |
| 01:27.22 | Dis_G1 | sfuentes: updates are unencrypted. so rehack it and apply by hand. |
| 01:27.42 | Dis_G1 | anyone try my dropbear patch yet? |
| 01:27.44 | sfuentes | anyone know if it's possible or if anyone is working on another language targeting the dalvik vm byte code? |
| 01:28.08 | wastrel | drop bear is a koala |
| 01:29.43 | herriojr | sfuentes: you should be able to make a compiler to translate to dalvik vm byte code |
| 01:30.01 | herriojr | sfuentes: but there is really no practical reason to do it |
| 01:30.24 | Adamant | sfuentes: have you tried converting the byteccode from other JVM based languages? |
| 01:30.45 | Dis_G1 | (yay beer, wifi and wings :) ..) |
| 01:30.57 | Adamant | IIRC, dx just converts JVM bytecode to Dalvik |
| 01:31.37 | Adamant | so things like JRuby, JPython, and Scala could theoretically work on Android if they don't use Java SE libraries |
| 01:32.17 | romainguy | they can work even if they use Java SE libraries |
| 01:32.19 | romainguy | well |
| 01:32.21 | romainguy | at least some of them :) |
| 01:32.27 | *** join/#android eton_ (n=eton@ppp-58-8-14-189.revip2.asianet.co.th) |
| 01:32.47 | Adamant | romainguy: well, I meant at runtime |
| 01:33.03 | Adamant | not the compiler/interpreters themselves |
| 01:33.13 | Adamant | bah |
| 01:33.18 | Adamant | that came out wrong |
| 01:33.28 | Dis_G1 | some gen bytecode live. non startet on g1 |
| 01:33.40 | Dis_G1 | non starter that is |
| 01:34.47 | sfuentes | dx runs on the dev environment, right? |
| 01:34.55 | Dis_G1 | ya sdk |
| 01:35.11 | romainguy | Adamant: I got what you mean :) |
| 01:35.31 | *** join/#android z6ck (n=isaac@c-67-160-37-200.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 01:36.26 | *** join/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@68.35.245.156) |
| 01:36.32 | z6ck | anyone use a LocationListener? |
| 01:36.41 | sfuentes | so we would need to create a subset of jython to have it run on dalvik then |
| 01:36.48 | zhobbs | z6ck: yeah |
| 01:37.00 | z6ck | zhobbs: did you have to use a Looper? |
| 01:37.14 | romainguy | I know that Scala can run on Android |
| 01:37.25 | Dis_G1 | sfuentes: prot to gen dalvik bytecode |
| 01:37.30 | Adamant | romainguy: is it slow as heck? |
| 01:37.35 | *** part/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@68.35.245.156) |
| 01:37.48 | romainguy | Adamant: no idea |
| 01:37.55 | romainguy | but Scala has a java compiler doesn't it? |
| 01:38.02 | Adamant | right |
| 01:38.07 | Adamant | it compiles to JVM bytecode |
| 01:38.13 | romainguy | so it's probably this they us |
| 01:38.14 | Adamant | actually |
| 01:38.18 | zhobbs | z6ck: I don't think you should ever use Looper |
| 01:38.26 | Adamant | I think it emits Java which is compiled to JVM bytecode |
| 01:39.38 | sfuentes | so technically it seems dalvik vm has nothing to do with java |
| 01:39.46 | z6ck | zhobbs: i setup a listener but onLocationChange() never seems to get called. |
| 01:39.47 | sfuentes | dx on the other does |
| 01:39.57 | z6ck | something odd with the emulator? |
| 01:40.28 | *** join/#android andyross (n=andy@static-71-245-107-194.ptldor.fios.verizon.net) |
| 01:40.34 | zhobbs | z6ck: yeah, don't think the emulator has location providers anymore |
| 01:40.45 | *** join/#android Gary|tp (n=Gary1357@c-66-41-234-235.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 01:41.22 | z6ck | zhobbs: ah that would explain it. i guess i'll test on my phone. (scary!) |
| 01:41.26 | z6ck | thanks |
| 01:41.40 | KNY | z6ck, you can emulate location via adb |
| 01:41.43 | *** join/#android yakischloba (n=jake@c-24-22-171-214.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 01:42.05 | *** join/#android unix_infidel (n=blue@unaffiliated/unixinfidel/x-8383745) |
| 01:42.13 | sfuentes | is it possible to load apps directly into your g1 phone without using android market? |
| 01:42.26 | zhobbs | KNY: yeah, but I don't think the emulator has sample location providers built in anymore |
| 01:42.27 | Dis_G1 | browser or adb |
| 01:42.38 | Dis_G1 | or alt markets |
| 01:42.42 | KNY | zhobbs, nope, but they added adb functionality |
| 01:42.58 | sfuentes | nice |
| 01:44.07 | *** join/#android JairunCaloth (n=dbrowne@c-76-20-219-18.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 01:44.16 | JairunCaloth | yar |
| 01:44.50 | z6ck | woo! it works |
| 01:44.53 | z6ck | sweeet |
| 01:44.56 | Dis_G1 | avast ye dogs, my ale be gone! |
| 01:45.07 | JairunCaloth | oh noes! |
| 01:45.36 | JairunCaloth | so anywho, back to what I was doing before I was rudely inturrupted by sleep and then work |
| 01:45.44 | Dis_G1 | lol |
| 01:45.47 | z6ck | oops I didnt put in a way to turn it off ;\ |
| 01:47.24 | Dis_G1 | thats bad |
| 01:47.58 | *** join/#android estiven (n=estiven@190.249.14.55) |
| 01:48.05 | *** join/#android Gary|thinkpad (n=Gary1357@c-66-41-234-235.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 01:48.11 | Dis_G1 | ok everyone can relax, the wench brought me a new beer. (www.duclaw.com) |
| 01:48.57 | *** join/#android Adamant (n=Adamant@c-98-244-152-196.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 01:50.25 | JairunCaloth | demands a beer |
| 01:51.06 | unix_infidel | would be interesting to see an app that has a database of all stores with a liquor license. |
| 01:51.06 | *** join/#android Amitava (n=UserNick@c-71-57-168-55.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 01:51.25 | Dis_G1 | lol |
| 01:51.26 | unix_infidel | then with the press of a button provies you a list / map of the closest. |
| 01:51.44 | Dis_G1 | there is a brewpub maps mashup out there |
| 01:51.50 | Dis_G1 | not as an app tho |
| 01:52.24 | unix_infidel | coors should've put out that app instead of that stupid accelerometer one. |
| 01:52.52 | Dis_G1 | i may be in the onlt non 3g duclaw :( but its got decent wifi :) |
| 01:53.05 | Dis_G1 | coors app? |
| 01:53.39 | unix_infidel | virtual beer. |
| 01:54.44 | Dis_G1 | gary dude give up.. seriously.. |
| 01:54.46 | *** join/#android Gary|tp (n=Gary1357@c-66-41-234-235.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 01:54.56 | Dis_G1 | Gary|tp: dude give up.. seriously.. |
| 01:55.20 | d0nets | high |
| 01:55.36 | d0nets | anyone know alot aboot the android.media.MediaPlayer api? |
| 01:55.43 | Dis_G1 | no just a little buzzed why? :) |
| 01:56.00 | *** join/#android eton (n=eton@ppp-58-8-2-131.revip2.asianet.co.th) |
| 01:56.04 | oyeoj | are the tabs in eg the contacts app part of a public view? |
| 01:56.05 | unix_infidel | d0nets: jasta would. |
| 01:56.12 | d0nets | i was talking to him earlier |
| 01:56.23 | d0nets | i think i have bugged him enough though |
| 01:56.32 | *** join/#android estiven_ (n=chatzill@190.249.14.55) |
| 01:56.41 | d0nets | he spent a day helping me build his app lol |
| 01:57.26 | Dis_G1 | he lives for dumb questions (kidding :) ..) |
| 01:57.26 | z6ck | does a LocationListener _stay_ connected or do I have to reconnect it every time the locationmanager calls me back? |
| 01:57.42 | *** join/#android Juan_David_Truji (n=chatzill@190.249.48.255) |
| 01:57.51 | *** join/#android BHSPitMonkey (n=stephen@unaffiliated/bhspitmonkey) |
| 01:58.13 | estiven | Hi |
| 01:58.24 | KNY | is there a way to set focus on a Button? myBtn.requestFocus() doesn't seem to work |
| 01:58.38 | *** join/#android rami (n=rami@77.31.219.249) |
| 01:58.42 | *** join/#android estiven_ (n=chatzill@190.249.14.55) |
| 01:59.24 | Juan_David_Truji | Hi!!! |
| 01:59.25 | Dis_G1 | i tried to price my beer but the barcode reader doesn't like foam :( |
| 01:59.45 | rami | Hello guys, I wanted to install pac-man from the android market, but its telling me I have to pay. But there is no option for paying? |
| 02:00.18 | KNY | rami, the one from namco? I installed that and it never asked/told me to pay |
| 02:00.58 | rami | KNY, yes it's from Namco |
| 02:01.03 | KNY | weird |
| 02:01.46 | rami | I keep reading about these apps online, but can't find them in the market. Are there any apps yanked out of the market? |
| 02:02.26 | rami | btw I am not on T-Mobile...will that make a difference? |
| 02:02.48 | Dis_G1 | no |
| 02:03.45 | rami | ok what about iskoot? I can't find it in the market |
| 02:03.56 | KNY | rami, did you try searching? |
| 02:04.18 | rami | yes, actually search never worked...it instantly gives me no result |
| 02:04.22 | KNY | sorry if that came across wrong, but just figured I'd ask the obvious |
| 02:04.25 | KNY | hmm |
| 02:05.14 | rami | Does it matter if I am trying from wireless or 3g? |
| 02:05.46 | KNY | I've only ever tried it on EDGE |
| 02:05.47 | Dis_G1 | wireless might be better |
| 02:05.55 | KNY | no 3G here and I just haven't tried wifi yet |
| 02:06.47 | sfuentes | rami: what do u mean ur not on t-mobile? |
| 02:07.14 | *** join/#android SjB (n=steve@CPE000f6694c28f-CM00194757c0b2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 02:07.27 | rami | sfuentes, am in saudi arabia |
| 02:07.38 | rami | sfuentes, using my own carrier |
| 02:07.47 | Dis_G1 | sfuentes: his english is good. he means he's not a tmob customer. |
| 02:07.49 | KNY | do you have an unlocked phone? |
| 02:08.15 | rami | KNY, lol yes of course :) |
| 02:08.23 | Dis_G1 | got unlocked by calling 611 and saying 'can i have my code?' |
| 02:08.23 | sfuentes | i didn't know android phones outside of t-mob were available |
| 02:08.34 | rami | Dis_G1, lol man |
| 02:08.48 | KNY | sfuentes, if you are an existing tmo customer and in good standing and ask nicely, some CSRs will give you the unlokc code |
| 02:08.49 | rami | sfuentes, its unlocked.... |
| 02:08.51 | KNY | unlock* |
| 02:08.55 | rami | sfuentes, same as yours |
| 02:09.47 | sfuentes | and u can then use it with any carrier??? |
| 02:09.55 | Dis_G1 | yes |
| 02:09.56 | rami | sfuentes, yes :) |
| 02:10.01 | sfuentes | omfg |
| 02:10.13 | rami | sfuentes, I tested it on 2 carriers out of 3 over here in Saudi Arabia |
| 02:10.28 | sfuentes | sorry but i got excited there for a min |
| 02:10.28 | *** join/#android poetic_folly|G5 (n=poetic_f@213-39.103-97.tampabay.res.rr.com) |
| 02:11.27 | *** join/#android porter1 (n=cameron@156.26.174.142) |
| 02:11.27 | sfuentes | so there's nothing special about that so called "g1 service"? |
| 02:11.29 | sfuentes | it's just unlimited data + 3g? |
| 02:11.33 | KNY | sfuentes, yeah |
| 02:11.51 | rami | sfuentes, nope, my plan 25$ for 1 GB per month |
| 02:11.57 | KNY | tmo just doesn't want people using their $5.99 data plan with the g1 :) |
| 02:13.01 | sfuentes | damn corporate vamps! |
| 02:13.04 | rami | A lot of people complaining about Pac-Man and the need to pay, didn't find an answer though |
| 02:13.47 | sfuentes | so at&t has best 3g service right now? |
| 02:14.59 | sfuentes | so what excuse can i use to say i need my unlock code? |
| 02:16.38 | rami | You can pay 20 bucks and unlock it |
| 02:18.32 | *** join/#android jlapenna (n=jlapenna@nat/google/x-d31ce3a602bcc5cc) |
| 02:18.58 | KNY | sfuentes, tell them you're visiting relatives in Canada, maybe? |
| 02:19.21 | unix_infidel | sfuentes: wont be able to use 3G with the G1 even if you unlocked it. |
| 02:19.59 | sfuentes | ok so the 3g service is tied to t-mob then |
| 02:20.20 | sfuentes | KNY: sounds like a good excuse |
| 02:20.27 | rami | sfuentes, no it's just the frequencies of ATT are different |
| 02:20.35 | rami | 3G is working just fine over here in Saudi |
| 02:20.37 | KNY | sfuentes, especially since we (the US) are coming up on a holiday |
| 02:20.58 | spikebike | 3G with what device? |
| 02:21.14 | rami | spikebike, G1 |
| 02:21.21 | spikebike | in saudi? |
| 02:21.37 | rami | spikebike, yes |
| 02:21.38 | sfuentes | rami: how did u get the right freq? |
| 02:21.38 | *** join/#android cbeust (n=cbeust@64-142-66-175.dsl.static.sonic.net) |
| 02:22.02 | Dis_G1 | gsm is magic like that |
| 02:22.07 | spikebike | weird, I thought the frequencies were unique to usa |
| 02:22.14 | rami | sfuentes, it just worked...unless I am just getting a G icon but not reall 3G |
| 02:22.15 | spikebike | well gsm should... not surprising at all |
| 02:22.18 | spikebike | 3g on the other hand |
| 02:22.31 | spikebike | oh G = GPRS I think |
| 02:22.35 | Dis_G1 | if you have the icon you are good |
| 02:22.36 | spikebike | run a bandwidth test |
| 02:22.42 | Dis_G1 | ooh yah |
| 02:22.44 | rami | aight |
| 02:22.56 | Dis_G1 | 3g is a '3g' icon |
| 02:23.03 | *** join/#android cbeust_ (n=cbeust@72.14.224.1) |
| 02:23.14 | Dis_G1 | dslreports.com/mspeed |
| 02:23.29 | rami | actually the icon is 3G |
| 02:23.29 | *** join/#android mfrnc (n=mfrnc@210-84-32-12.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 02:23.31 | KNY | there's a speedtest app in the market |
| 02:23.54 | Dis_G1 | KNY: it wants gps. screw that. |
| 02:24.01 | *** join/#android rubyonlinux (n=jeremy@c-67-189-55-96.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 02:24.06 | rami | speed 582.70795 KBPS ;) |
| 02:24.09 | *** join/#android jbq (n=jbq@nat/google/x-9d34ed2b4d2a1e08) |
| 02:24.16 | rami | I think am good :) |
| 02:24.17 | KNY | Dis_G1, I used it inside without problems |
| 02:24.59 | spikebike | do you have the wifi symbol? |
| 02:25.21 | rami | I disabled wifi. Lol what do you take me for :P |
| 02:25.32 | Dis_G1 | heh |
| 02:25.54 | *** join/#android jbq_ (n=jbq@72.14.224.1) |
| 02:27.18 | Dis_G1 | bbl all. or tomorrow. meh. |
| 02:28.05 | sfuentes | looks like getting the t-mob contract and then breaking the contract is cheaper than buying the phone at retail price |
| 02:28.23 | spikebike | heh |
| 02:28.32 | spikebike | what is teh early termination fee? |
| 02:28.32 | rami | ok guys, still nobody answered me. Are their applications pulled out of the market? I mean I read about I-skoot, toodo and a couple others that I can't find?? |
| 02:28.43 | wasabi | But what service would you use the phone with if not t mobile? |
| 02:28.49 | spikebike | rami some are USA only |
| 02:28.52 | spikebike | like iskoot |
| 02:29.09 | rami | spikebike, aha, Pac-Man? |
| 02:29.13 | spikebike | maybe |
| 02:29.40 | rami | but surely there is a hack ya? |
| 02:30.05 | spikebike | ya pacman is still there |
| 02:30.18 | rami | its asking me to pay for pacman |
| 02:30.29 | spikebike | namco prolly has the rights |
| 02:30.32 | spikebike | how much is it? |
| 02:30.55 | rami | doesn't really say, I don't mind paying, but I don't get any buy button or anything |
| 02:31.05 | `vip_ | can i uninstall the tmobile myfaves app ?? |
| 02:31.12 | *** join/#android neerhaj (i=chatzill@203.115.94.246) |
| 02:31.13 | sfuentes | spikebike: early term fee is 200 |
| 02:31.13 | kRutOn | So can I buy a G1 online from the T-Mobile website at the 399 price? |
| 02:31.30 | `vip_ | yeah or on the phone, kRutOn |
| 02:31.43 | spikebike | not last I heard... currently you have to sweettalk a t-mobile clerk |
| 02:31.59 | spikebike | sfuentes ah |
| 02:32.34 | wasabi | Any other providers you can use the phone with? |
| 02:32.35 | sfuentes | spikebike: early term fee is 200 + 180 g1 phone (after discounts) = 380 bucks ... not much savings though |
| 02:32.46 | KNY | kRutOn, yeah, you can get them online without a contract |
| 02:32.56 | kRutOn | kny: From the T-Mobile website or just eBay? |
| 02:32.56 | wasabi | you probably also don't pay sales tax on the 200. ;) |
| 02:33.00 | KNY | sfuentes, it's going to be $150 at walmart |
| 02:33.04 | jbq_ | sfuentes: you need to count the activation fee as well. |
| 02:33.04 | KNY | kRutOn, t-mobile |
| 02:33.11 | spikebike | kny with cotnract |
| 02:33.14 | kRutOn | KNY: I can't find a way to do it on their website. |
| 02:33.27 | KNY | spikebike, yeah, that's what we're talking about--buying and cancelling, no? |
| 02:33.45 | spikebike | they might have different terms |
| 02:33.52 | KNY | true |
| 02:34.16 | sfuentes | wasabi: dammit!! |
| 02:34.22 | kslater | wasabi: depends on what you mean by use it on another network |
| 02:34.35 | kRutOn | Either they have cleverly hidden the option to buy without a plan or I'm blind. |
| 02:34.35 | wasabi | 3g |
| 02:34.37 | wasabi | obviously |
| 02:34.39 | KNY | kRutOn, i'm not sure, but I got mine without a contract |
| 02:34.43 | wasabi | anything else is useles |
| 02:34.49 | kslater | at this point no |
| 02:34.49 | spikebike | kruton requires sweet talking a sales folk |
| 02:34.52 | KNY | though I went into a store--you don't need a t-mobile account with them, AFAIK |
| 02:34.53 | sfuentes | jbq_: how much we talkin? |
| 02:35.10 | jbq_ | I have $35 in mind, I might be wrong on that. |
| 02:35.19 | kslater | and I don't have 3g and still find the phone very useful |
| 02:35.29 | kRutOn | I went to a T-Mobile store and the guy there was like 'You can only buy the G1 online and no stores have it.' |
| 02:35.40 | kRutOn | Must be typical T-Mobile run-around. |
| 02:35.46 | spikebike | kruton only the "enterprise" stores have it |
| 02:35.52 | Juan_David_Truji | Hi All!, does anyone know How to get the position of a specific element in a spinner based on the element's text? |
| 02:35.59 | spikebike | they have a different symbol in the store search |
| 02:36.06 | sfuentes | what?? |
| 02:36.13 | kRutOn | spikebike: Do the Enterprise stores have NCC-1701 stenciled on the outside of them? |
| 02:36.23 | sfuentes | spikebike: i've seen t-mob booths with it |
| 02:36.28 | wasabi | i await an android device on another network |
| 02:36.28 | wasabi | sigh |
| 02:36.41 | spikebike | well the best supply anyways |
| 02:36.46 | sfuentes | wasabi: that's what i said about 1month ago :D |
| 02:37.05 | sfuentes | who's next anyway? sprint? |
| 02:37.06 | spikebike | there's 2 devices due by xmas |
| 02:37.15 | sfuentes | reallyy... |
| 02:37.26 | sfuentes | wonders if its worth waiting |
| 02:37.28 | kslater | really spikebike? who's? what network? |
| 02:37.34 | wasabi | Whose devices? |
| 02:37.36 | wasabi | Are they HTC or others? |
| 02:37.45 | wasabi | I like the G1, actually. Saw it in the store a few minutes ago. |
| 02:37.46 | kRutOn | spikebike: I went to one that has a red T to the left of it on their store search :-/ |
| 02:37.49 | wasabi | Just I'd like AT&T |
| 02:37.56 | wasabi | (can get a free plan with them through work) |
| 02:38.01 | kRutOn | spikebike: It says it's a "T-Mobile Owned Location" |
| 02:38.02 | spikebike | freerunner and some strange .au phone |
| 02:38.34 | sfuentes | spikebike: are u an insider? :) |
| 02:38.45 | kslater | freerunner, yeah, saw they had some rudimentary success already |
| 02:38.49 | KNY | anyone ever used a KeyListener on their apps? |
| 02:38.59 | kslater | but that's far from being completely working from what I read |
| 02:39.21 | spikebike | yeah the pink T locations |
| 02:39.25 | spikebike | I bought 2 at the one near my house |
| 02:39.36 | KNY | kslater, the hardware is pretty solid but the software stack was pretty pitiful |
| 02:39.37 | kRutOn | spikebike: I guess I'll try a different pink T location |
| 02:39.40 | KNY | hopefully android solves that |
| 02:40.11 | sfuentes | spikebike: u bought 2 g1s? |
| 02:40.59 | spikebike | ya |
| 02:41.05 | Amitava | I've managed to extend my exchange period to 30 days from 14, since the store don't have Brown. I told them that I'd cancel my contract if they don't exchange it :D |
| 02:41.11 | *** join/#android Jeffkyjin (n=Jeffkyji@host-177-100.cs.hku.hk) |
| 02:41.18 | KNY | Amitava, haha |
| 02:41.35 | spikebike | heh in california they change it to 30 as you sign |
| 02:41.36 | KNY | anyone want a new t-mo sim? |
| 02:41.37 | Amitava | Im pissed of with that cracking screen :( |
| 02:41.59 | KNY | the sales guy put one in for free and the phone came with one... and I already had one |
| 02:43.27 | wastrel | anyone looked at the fbreader (ebook reader) source? |
| 02:43.49 | spikebike | a little |
| 02:43.53 | KNY | Amitava, what cracking screen? |
| 02:44.26 | wastrel | spikebike: yeah? did you build it? |
| 02:44.38 | Amitava | KNY: the famous creaking screen? it makes those weird noice when you press on screen as if its broken |
| 02:44.48 | wastrel | my screen creaks |
| 02:44.51 | *** join/#android ITechJunkie (n=trevor@ip72-198-61-100.ok.ok.cox.net) |
| 02:44.52 | KNY | ahh, creaking.. that takes 10 seconds to fix |
| 02:45.07 | spikebike | nah, I poked around a bit, was considerign some tweaks for the n800 |
| 02:45.17 | spikebike | ended up just installing the binary |
| 02:45.22 | spikebike | it's a rather nice app |
| 02:45.28 | wastrel | it works for you? |
| 02:45.34 | KNY | wastrel, yes |
| 02:45.35 | wastrel | it hans opening books for me |
| 02:45.35 | *** join/#android g1er (n=chatzill@c-67-161-176-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 02:45.36 | wastrel | hangs |
| 02:45.49 | KNY | oh, I was talking about the creaking :) sorry |
| 02:46.04 | wastrel | creaking oh what's the fix? |
| 02:46.05 | Amitava | I'd rather have the brown one. Hopefully the white one comes within 23rd. |
| 02:46.07 | spikebike | oh? |
| 02:46.18 | spikebike | I got one brown and one black |
| 02:46.26 | Amitava | 2? |
| 02:46.33 | KNY | wastrel, above the END button, there's a tiny plastic nub where the screen touches the body.. right next to the hinge |
| 02:46.35 | spikebike | never had a problem with fbreader |
| 02:46.38 | wastrel | spikebike: yeah what format books are you using? also are they full length novels or short? |
| 02:46.39 | KNY | take a razor and slice it off |
| 02:46.52 | Amitava | KNY: didn't work |
| 02:46.56 | spikebike | I read dunno 10-20 books |
| 02:47.03 | spikebike | some txt, I think some pdf |
| 02:47.28 | KNY | Amitava, you tried it? |
| 02:47.29 | *** join/#android matt_c (n=mcroydon@137.147.45.66.cm.sunflower.com) |
| 02:47.39 | KNY | see this: http://androidcommunity.com/forums/f10/diy-creak-fix-4596/ |
| 02:47.47 | Amitava | KNY: yes. as in androidcommunity. |
| 02:47.58 | KNY | interesting |
| 02:48.01 | KNY | worked perfectly for me |
| 02:48.28 | wastrel | you mean that ridge there |
| 02:48.35 | KNY | yeah |
| 02:48.37 | KNY | the tiny one |
| 02:49.05 | KNY | just take a razor or exacto knife and slice it off |
| 02:49.28 | Amitava | I know it's because of friction between sliding screen and body but it's not that part. |
| 02:49.38 | KNY | Amitava, that's what it was on mine |
| 02:49.43 | ITechJunkie | does anyone know how i can scroll up in irssi. pgup and pgdown arent an option as i'm on my G1. |
| 02:50.40 | Amitava | KNY: I don't have that protruding part. Mine is smooth. |
| 02:50.52 | wastrel | you can send pgup it's a up then down on the screen |
| 02:50.55 | wastrel | gesture |
| 02:51.13 | wastrel | something like that iirc |
| 02:51.16 | spikebike | itech left edge |
| 02:51.24 | spikebike | swipe up or down |
| 02:51.31 | wastrel | ah |
| 02:51.39 | KNY | Amitava, it's riiiiight next to the hinge part. it was pretty hard to see without a flashlight on mine |
| 02:51.58 | spikebike | right edge is scroll up/down, doesn't work well with irssi |
| 02:52.12 | ITechJunkie | spikebike: thanks bro thats what i needed! |
| 02:53.06 | ITechJunkie | i love this phone lol |
| 02:53.08 | wastrel | cute i like the usb notification in the new firmware |
| 02:53.18 | spikebike | I hate it |
| 02:53.31 | spikebike | they do the timing wrong or something so it doesn't automount after I say yes |
| 02:54.00 | ITechJunkie | spikebike: i havent had that problem yet... |
| 02:54.15 | spikebike | might be ubuntu specific |
| 02:54.30 | wastrel | works just fine on my intrepix |
| 02:54.39 | ITechJunkie | spikebike: i use that. mounts mine right up |
| 02:55.02 | wastrel | ahh i'm using epub format books |
| 02:55.21 | wastrel | which is apparently zipped |
| 02:55.31 | KNY | spikebike, did you set up ubuntu? |
| 02:55.32 | zhobbs | I like that the Term app has 58 ratings in the Market, and "< 50 downloads" |
| 02:55.34 | wastrel | and fbreaderj docs mention there's a problem with opening zips. |
| 02:55.51 | KNY | spikebike, I had to configure some stuff before that worked--now it opens fspot right away |
| 02:56.20 | umdk1d3 | zhobbs: yea saw that in market, looks like google hasnt pulled it yet |
| 02:56.31 | zhobbs | umdk1d3: why would they pull it? |
| 02:56.39 | KNY | yeah, I was wondering that |
| 02:57.10 | ITechJunkie | zhobbs: lol after all the trouble we went through to install it on mine and it comes out a day later lol. |
| 02:57.31 | zhobbs | ITechJunkie: heh, well someone else was having the same prob as you so I just stuck it on the Market |
| 02:57.58 | RyeBrye | zhobbs - what app? |
| 02:58.04 | KNY | hate to be a repeat, but anyone ever used a KeyListener in their app? |
| 02:58.07 | ITechJunkie | zhobbs: right on. did ya ever find out what it was? |
| 02:58.09 | KNY | RyeBrye, Term.apk |
| 02:58.13 | RyeBrye | ah |
| 02:58.13 | zhobbs | RyeBrye: I just posed Google's Term.apk to the Market |
| 02:58.17 | zhobbs | posted* |
| 02:58.34 | RyeBrye | You should have waited until you could sell it :) |
| 02:58.41 | zhobbs | hehe |
| 02:58.53 | KNY | what's the ETA on payment? anyone heard? |
| 02:59.36 | wastrel | is there a way to partially extract a zip file? |
| 02:59.42 | KNY | partially extract? |
| 02:59.44 | wastrel | can you seek in a zip file? |
| 02:59.49 | wastrel | yeah |
| 02:59.52 | spikebike | itech/kny was just using default ubuntu 8.04, no config... used to just work |
| 03:00.03 | wastrel | it seems to me a terrible format for mobile if you have to unzip the whole ebook |
| 03:00.08 | KNY | spikebike, let me find the docs--you have to do something special |
| 03:00.17 | wastrel | just to show a couple hundred words at a time on the screen |
| 03:00.50 | KNY | spikebike, http://code.google.com/android/intro/develop-and-debug.html#developingondevicehardware |
| 03:01.05 | spikebike | cool, thanks |
| 03:01.10 | KNY | no problem |
| 03:01.24 | ITechJunkie | spikebike: it worked just fine on hardy as well. I've got a hardy machine in the other room if you want me to confirm it |
| 03:01.41 | KNY | ITechJunkie, I'm on one right now, stepping through breakpoints :) |
| 03:02.19 | ITechJunkie | KNY: cool |
| 03:03.04 | KNY | whoa cool, I didn't know you could long-press on keyboard keys for special characters |
| 03:03.05 | JairunCaloth | gawd I hate the color scheme in the Term app |
| 03:06.48 | Neverende1 | you can change it to black on white |
| 03:07.05 | *** join/#android Sorium (i=Sorium@dhcp0222.hil.resnet.group.upenn.edu) |
| 03:07.20 | ITechJunkie | JairunCaloth: talk to zhobbs. I bet if you tickle his nuts just right he might put more options in the next version. |
| 03:08.02 | Sorium | what's the android dev channel? |
| 03:08.02 | KNY | good god who decided on a blue background? |
| 03:08.15 | KNY | #android-dev |
| 03:08.15 | Sorium | android-dev ? anddev? |
| 03:08.17 | Sorium | thanks |
| 03:08.21 | *** join/#android guerby (n=guerby@78.196.98-84.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 03:09.08 | sfuentes | i see a world dominated by androids |
| 03:09.29 | KNY | that'd be nice |
| 03:09.40 | sfuentes | its such a beautiful thing |
| 03:09.50 | KNY | it's the way cellphones should be |
| 03:09.58 | ITechJunkie | sfuentes: for sure. |
| 03:10.07 | KNY | open, SDKs, APIs |
| 03:10.07 | Amitava | yeah, when everything works |
| 03:10.09 | KNY | sighs |
| 03:10.56 | JairunCaloth | That's the terminal app from the source right, ITechJunkie |
| 03:11.10 | sfuentes | iphone is based on freebsd, right? |
| 03:11.11 | zhobbs | JairunCaloth: yeah |
| 03:11.20 | KNY | sfuentes, it's based on OSX |
| 03:11.24 | spikebike | er no |
| 03:11.26 | KNY | which is XNUX, IIRC |
| 03:11.40 | spikebike | OSX has the freebsd userspace |
| 03:11.44 | spikebike | but the kernel is unrelated |
| 03:11.45 | JairunCaloth | yeah... I was just about to see if I could fix that, working on getting stuff setup for compiling apps |
| 03:11.48 | KNY | ah |
| 03:11.49 | zhobbs | JairunCaloth: I only modified the Manifest to be Market friendly and include a launcher icon |
| 03:11.51 | sfuentes | mach kernel i believe |
| 03:12.16 | spikebike | well amusingly it was mach related but they have been making it less microkernel like by the day |
| 03:12.17 | sfuentes | so iphone is free(mach)bsd |
| 03:12.27 | JairunCaloth | I'm no developer, but I know enouh about programming that I *might* be able to adjust something like colors |
| 03:12.36 | KNY | JairunCaloth, heh |
| 03:12.47 | sfuentes | spikebike: interesting |
| 03:12.49 | KNY | replace Color.BLUE with Color.BLACK |
| 03:13.03 | spikebike | sweet |
| 03:13.08 | spikebike | thanks for the link, it worked |
| 03:13.11 | spikebike | RC19 just worked |
| 03:13.15 | spikebike | RC29 didn't |
| 03:13.21 | spikebike | rc29 + tweak from that URL works |
| 03:13.28 | KNY | spikebike, I'm glad |
| 03:13.31 | spikebike | I like it to be easy enough for my wife to use |
| 03:13.39 | KNY | yeah |
| 03:13.43 | KNY | pops fspot right up |
| 03:13.54 | rwhitby | can anyone point me to the surface flinger and opengl stuff in the android source base? |
| 03:14.56 | *** join/#android dglazkov (n=dglazkov@c-24-130-144-56.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 03:15.38 | *** join/#android dglazkov_ (n=dglazkov@72.14.224.1) |
| 03:16.11 | ITechJunkie | hey guys. now that android is jailbroken what would it take to make the screen shift based on accelerometer motions? |
| 03:16.28 | Sorium | what are some known bugs in Android?? |
| 03:16.34 | KNY | ITechJunkie, jailbroken? |
| 03:16.38 | KNY | it's open source... |
| 03:17.05 | ITechJunkie | KNY: right but now we have root access and all |
| 03:17.10 | KNY | and applications can respond to accelerometer--just a matter of setting android:screenOrientation="sensor" |
| 03:17.24 | *** join/#android macboz_ (n=kozen@osb.s4bb.com) |
| 03:17.54 | spikebike | KNY er it needed jailbroken right up till we got root |
| 03:18.16 | spikebike | and may need to break root again |
| 03:18.22 | ITechJunkie | KNY: how can one set that globally? |
| 03:18.33 | spikebike | I hope that tmo gods decide that it's harmless |
| 03:18.43 | KNY | ITechJunkie, you can't |
| 03:19.05 | ITechJunkie | spikebike: google alrewady announced theyre gonna patch it. |
| 03:19.25 | spikebike | booo |
| 03:19.40 | spikebike | well lets hope that currently rooted phones can manage to reflash /system themselves |
| 03:19.42 | ITechJunkie | for real |
| 03:20.05 | spikebike | nokia relented and allowed root on the n770/n800/n810 |
| 03:20.33 | ITechJunkie | spikebike: didn't know that. |
| 03:21.05 | *** join/#android JairunCaloth (n=dbrowne@c-76-20-219-18.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 03:21.09 | benley | it's not really that clear what the big excitement is with getting root on android |
| 03:21.25 | benley | you can already run native code on it as a user |
| 03:21.34 | KNY | but you're in a sandbox |
| 03:21.38 | ITechJunkie | benley: allows more options for hackers |
| 03:21.40 | KNY | (sort of) |
| 03:21.45 | spikebike | benley kinda frustrating to have the source and not be able to fix/improve/extend things |
| 03:21.52 | spikebike | it's super open... except you can't change shit |
| 03:21.58 | benley | KNY: so build yourself a terminal app that's granted whatever permissions you need |
| 03:22.00 | spikebike | almost iphone like |
| 03:22.08 | ITechJunkie | example, now you can install apps to the flash |
| 03:22.09 | *** join/#android mfrnc (n=mfrnc@210-84-32-12.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 03:22.13 | merck | Does something know that Android support WiFi WISPr? |
| 03:22.30 | *** join/#android PoohbaLT (n=Poohba@98.235.52.97) |
| 03:22.36 | spikebike | benley except for tweaking the network, or installing apps on a sd card, or fixing the compeltely broken mail client |
| 03:22.55 | benley | spikebike: but you can already build your own version of the broken mail client. Look at the k9 app in the market. |
| 03:23.00 | *** join/#android shackan (n=frob@host247-86-dynamic.61-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 03:23.09 | merck | or Have someone used WISPr before? |
| 03:24.07 | *** join/#android jbq (n=jbq@c-24-5-185-88.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 03:24.39 | spikebike | can you delete the existing app? |
| 03:24.47 | *** join/#android jbq_ (n=jbq@72.14.224.1) |
| 03:24.50 | benley | probably not, but you _can_ just not use it :-P |
| 03:24.59 | spikebike | right, but the storage is severly limited |
| 03:25.12 | benley | running apps from the SD card is a huge win, I agree. |
| 03:25.17 | JairunCaloth | ITechJunkie: Looking through the mountd source the SD cards are mounted with options that specificly don't allow files to be set with executible permissions |
| 03:25.29 | benley | ... but running apps from fat32 is kinda assy |
| 03:25.35 | spikebike | tether is another big one |
| 03:26.29 | ITechJunkie | JairunCaloth: but you can mount it with different options once you obtain root |
| 03:26.43 | spikebike | trying a different wifi driver for the kernel could be another big one |
| 03:27.16 | JairunCaloth | yeah this is true |
| 03:27.17 | spikebike | and keep in mind that google's not stopped development |
| 03:27.30 | spikebike | I don't expect tmo to keep up with google |
| 03:28.00 | benley | I wonder how that's going to work out |
| 03:28.00 | spikebike | I'd like for instance to run sshd |
| 03:28.11 | benley | like, will google be spinning updates for the various carriers? |
| 03:28.13 | ITechJunkie | JairunCaloth: don't take my word for it. i'm not a developer. I'm just a linux enthusist |
| 03:28.15 | benley | or will they do those themselves? |
| 03:28.31 | spikebike | dunno, it's up to the maker... |
| 03:28.41 | spikebike | right now tmo isn't being nearly as open as google |
| 03:28.47 | JairunCaloth | ITechJunkie: yeah I've been playing with remounting it, but I haven't gotten it to let me set a file as executable |
| 03:28.48 | benley | sure, I just wonder how that's going to play out in practice. |
| 03:29.04 | benley | I expect that in the fullness of time you'll be able to buy a device that is as open as you want it to be :) |
| 03:29.17 | spikebike | n770/n800/n810 sell in decent volumes, is a relativelys imilar device and ships with an easy get root tweak |
| 03:29.40 | spikebike | benley I hopeso, in the mean time I'm going to try to keep root |
| 03:29.43 | ITechJunkie | JairunCaloth: let me know how it goes man. I'm interested to find out more about how this works. |
| 03:30.04 | *** join/#android sjschultze (n=sjschult@c-24-218-166-109.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 03:30.53 | ITechJunkie | spikebike: what if we implanted a backdoor so we could gain root again after google patches it? |
| 03:31.03 | spikebike | they reformat /system |
| 03:31.16 | ITechJunkie | spikebike: oh |
| 03:31.18 | JairunCaloth | will refuse to patch |
| 03:31.23 | KNY | ln -s /system /fake-system? |
| 03:31.33 | benley | seems to me like refusing all future patches might be dumb |
| 03:31.48 | ITechJunkie | KNY: good thinkin |
| 03:31.53 | JairunCaloth | well since you're root, you can take the stuff you need out of the open source version, and install them yourself |
| 03:31.58 | benley | the appletv hackers figured out how to keep root between apple updates :) |
| 03:32.01 | spikebike | comes from the ramdisk/initrd |
| 03:32.06 | spikebike | <PROTECTED> |
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| 03:32.14 | spikebike | so /system link will be overwritten |
| 03:32.29 | spikebike | ideally we can just keep root |
| 03:32.30 | KNY | ah |
| 03:32.34 | spikebike | deny updates |
| 03:32.37 | spikebike | and roll our own |
| 03:32.50 | spikebike | by picking the pieces we want out of the google updates |
| 03:32.57 | JairunCaloth | exactly |
| 03:33.30 | spikebike | the ability to flash is debatable |
| 03:33.39 | spikebike | and will take a brave soul to attempt |
| 03:33.42 | ITechJunkie | spikebike: someone should assemble a team that cranks out a safe version of the patch after google releases them. |
| 03:34.00 | spikebike | ya |
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| 03:34.11 | JairunCaloth | spikebike: I don't doubt someone somewhere is working on that very thing right now |
| 03:34.18 | spikebike | indeed |
| 03:34.19 | JairunCaloth | who has a lot more understanding and knowlege then I |
| 03:34.37 | spikebike | the tricky part is when we decide we like a newer kernel |
| 03:34.42 | spikebike | locking it down is IMO evil |
| 03:34.58 | JairunCaloth | anywho... changeing the terminal colors seems to be trivial enough |
| 03:35.00 | spikebike | silly even |
| 03:35.15 | spikebike | they should have a recovery method to reinstall back to a supported image |
| 03:35.23 | JairunCaloth | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:35.24 | JairunCaloth | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:35.24 | JairunCaloth | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:36.17 | KNY | nice |
| 03:37.34 | JairunCaloth | I'm guessing the extra pair is black |
| 03:38.18 | KNY | what extra pair? |
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| 03:38.39 | cbeust_ | No, it's the alpha |
| 03:38.58 | JairunCaloth | ah |
| 03:39.00 | KNY | yeah, that's what I was about to say |
| 03:39.06 | JairunCaloth | makes sense |
| 03:41.18 | JairunCaloth | I haven't compiled any apps for android yet, how do you get them in the apk format? |
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| 03:41.47 | KNY | eclipse |
| 03:41.54 | KNY | the SDK has a compiler |
| 03:43.04 | cbeust_ | or ant |
| 03:45.16 | KNY | that too |
| 03:46.01 | wastrel | hi |
| 03:47.09 | KNY | hello |
| 03:47.59 | wastrel | i unzipped my ebooks and now they work in fbreader |
| 03:48.02 | KNY | hey, is there a way to delete an AIM account from the IM app? |
| 03:49.13 | wastrel | now just need offline html and a decent todo/organizer app and we're set |
| 03:49.17 | wastrel | dunno from aim. |
| 03:50.35 | spikebike | I want offline access to maps |
| 03:50.51 | spikebike | I'm hoping something like maemo mapper becomes available |
| 03:50.54 | KNY | that would be nice |
| 03:51.55 | sjschultze | I'm interested in playing with mtd0.img (dump of the mtd0 device... the boot device) but don't know much about initramfs. Anybody more experienced? |
| 03:52.04 | wastrel | hrm i also need a nyc subway map |
| 03:53.03 | KNY | sjschultze, are you looking for #android-dev ? |
| 03:53.17 | sjschultze | perhaps I am |
| 03:53.21 | andyross | mtd0 is just some strings, there's no code in there. The main and recovery kernels are in mtd1 and mtd2, I think. Not sure which is which. |
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| 03:54.07 | sjschultze | ah, looks like boot is mtd2 |
| 03:54.23 | sjschultze | but once I have the dump of it, what do I do to extract or mount it? |
| 03:54.41 | JairunCaloth | could you mount it as a ramdisk? |
| 03:54.44 | sjschultze | as I understand it, it's the kernel plus a cpio of the root filesystem |
| 03:55.38 | andyross | Never played with that. No doubt the cpio archive (gziped?) is just a trailer on the file. Not sure how to find the offset, but you could probably check the configuration in the source kernel. |
| 03:55.45 | JairunCaloth | wow... |
| 03:55.53 | JairunCaloth | ubuntu's eclipse is woefully behind |
| 03:56.16 | andyross | FWIW, I just got dumps using "adb shell su 'cat /dev/mtd/mtdn' > localfile" |
| 03:56.20 | sjschultze | JairunCaloth: I have not had luck with that approach |
| 03:56.37 | sjschultze | andyross: yeah, I did basically the same thing |
| 03:56.52 | KNY | JairunCaloth, just download and extract the zip |
| 03:56.56 | KNY | don't install eclipse from the rpo |
| 03:56.58 | KNY | repo* |
| 03:57.08 | sjschultze | so are you saying you'd have to figure out the offset, hack off the kernel part, and then unzip it as a cpio? |
| 03:57.37 | andyross | Probably. This ain't word processin'. :) |
| 03:58.19 | spikebike | wastrel cool on fbreader, I suspect they will have a zip fix out soonish |
| 03:59.09 | spikebike | I'll have to track down where I was getting ebooks from |
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| 04:14.10 | tmzt | jimp: so it's an input layer thing? I thought console was only the serial port in shipped g1's? |
| 04:14.42 | Damm | so, anyone have problems with the G1 not downloading text messages? |
| 04:14.46 | Damm | i get an option to 'download' |
| 04:14.47 | tmzt | but then I still haven't seen a /proc/cmdline /proc/config.gz |
| 04:14.50 | Damm | but it never downloads |
| 04:15.31 | tmzt | at release they had said that defconfig was it, but there is stuff in there that is not in the g1's (can't remember what) |
| 04:16.01 | Damm | I realize I get 50 or so a day from nagios when our devel guy plays around |
| 04:16.06 | Damm | but srsly it should have no issues |
| 04:18.18 | g1er | I not sure if this has already been mentioned, but google's pushing a patch for the telnet thing :/ |
| 04:18.44 | wastrel | telnetd or the whole root console thing? |
| 04:19.15 | g1er | not sure, I'm not all the tech. http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/40063/140 |
| 04:19.45 | g1er | and. http://www.android-portal.com/2008/11/06/google-looking-to-patch-t-mobile-g1-root-access-bug-in-upcoming-androi-update/ |
| 04:21.25 | RyeBrye | Yeah, that's predictable |
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| 04:21.51 | michaelnovakjr__ | howdy |
| 04:21.58 | wastrel | hi mnj |
| 04:22.16 | michaelnovakjr__ | anyone work with ServerSockets on android yet? |
| 04:22.26 | Hiro2 | are they able to push the patch to owners who already have G1? |
| 04:23.16 | umdk1d3 | Damm: are they MMS? |
| 04:23.24 | g1er | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:23.26 | umdk1d3 | ive had issues getting MMS messages for some reason, they keep failing |
| 04:23.45 | Damm | umdk1d3, nope |
| 04:23.53 | Damm | umdk1d3, straight up text messages from nagios. |
| 04:24.23 | umdk1d3 | hmm i havent played with nagios specifiaclly, is it sending through an email address sms gateway? |
| 04:24.51 | Damm | email address as a sms |
| 04:25.02 | Damm | or atleast it should come as sms, doesn't appear to come as MMS |
| 04:25.53 | Hiro2 | have you guys used shazam? |
| 04:25.55 | Hiro2 | it's awesome! |
| 04:26.02 | umdk1d3 | does it have a download button in the messaging app next to that message? |
| 04:26.08 | RyeBrye | g1er - yes, I have somehow locked them out |
| 04:26.21 | umdk1d3 | and then says "message not downloaded" as a notifcation? |
| 04:26.40 | Damm | umdk1d3, yes it does, and then tap downloaded, and barfs |
| 04:26.57 | umdk1d3 | yea i was seeing that gui when someone sent me a MMS |
| 04:27.02 | elad | im still on rc19 |
| 04:27.03 | elad | ;/ |
| 04:27.14 | Damm | elad, update to rc29 |
| 04:27.18 | Damm | umdk1d3, :/ |
| 04:27.23 | Damm | yeah I've had no luck with MMS |
| 04:27.36 | Damm | tried to send a few, they never got it. |
| 04:27.39 | umdk1d3 | Damm: when you say "barf" does it crash, or just fail with that notification+icon? |
| 04:27.54 | Damm | fail with that notification |
| 04:28.00 | Damm | delete the 'thread', and it works again. |
| 04:28.06 | Damm | thread hits about 30 or so when it starts to fail |
| 04:28.09 | umdk1d3 | hmm interesting |
| 04:28.15 | umdk1d3 | are you using tmobile? |
| 04:28.23 | Damm | yup |
| 04:28.41 | umdk1d3 | yea i have one about 10msgs into a thread that fails |
| 04:28.46 | umdk1d3 | ive actully never had one work lol |
| 04:29.06 | Damm | that figures |
| 04:29.14 | umdk1d3 | figured it was a carrier issue, because the person sent it to me from an att phone |
| 04:29.32 | Damm | jesus my plan is 5k minutes/month? |
| 04:29.35 | Damm | sighs. |
| 04:29.51 | Damm | trying to see how many text messages vs. mms |
| 04:30.06 | scootley | is there any concensus or common trend in what people are doing to avoid losing root when an update comes? |
| 04:30.07 | umdk1d3 | i never did get that--do they try billing separately for mms? |
| 04:30.30 | wastrel | gah |
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| 04:30.59 | RyeBrye | I posted one technique here: http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Preventing_OTA_Updates |
| 04:31.42 | RyeBrye | Another one, of course, is to modify the recovery.img to only take things that you sign yourself - but that's a bit harder to explain |
| 04:31.44 | Damm | RyeBrye, it'll be interesting to know if that works. |
| 04:32.04 | RyeBrye | Damm - it does work - spikebike did it on his rc19 phone and it just sat there spinning the wheels on the download for RC29 |
| 04:33.09 | Sorium | hey what are some known bugs in Android? |
| 04:33.27 | Sorium | i've heard people talk about them but what are they? |
| 04:33.33 | Damm | Sorium, more like what are the known working things |
| 04:33.34 | Damm | j/k |
| 04:33.41 | sjschultze | RyeBrye: I think the command should be otacerts, not otakeys |
| 04:33.57 | Sorium | what i mean is this: does the phone book glitch? does text msg randomly delete messages? |
| 04:33.58 | Damm | well #MIN# fails |
| 04:34.07 | Sorium | i've read all of these things but want to know whats the truth |
| 04:34.14 | Damm | Sorium, when the message thread is too big it'll fail. |
| 04:34.22 | Damm | I hit about 30 nagios messages and it starts to throw a fit |
| 04:34.26 | Damm | delete the thread and it's fine |
| 04:34.33 | Damm | RC29's pretty darn stable to me |
| 04:34.43 | Sorium | ah interesting |
| 04:35.02 | Damm | RC19 was a crashhappy pos |
| 04:35.08 | Damm | com.android.phone crashed on me 2-3x a day |
| 04:35.38 | Damm | but RC29 has been pretty darn awesome... haven't had it crash yet |
| 04:35.43 | Damm | since last saturday |
| 04:35.44 | elad | Where is the rc29 download located? |
| 04:36.09 | Damm | check out android-dls.com or forum.xda-developer.com |
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| 04:40.17 | Sorium | does Rc29 automatically DL to the G1? |
| 04:40.18 | elad | dam how big is rc29 |
| 04:40.37 | scootley | 44 megs |
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| 04:46.55 | elad | interesting its saying: cant mount /dev/block/mmcblk0p1 |
| 04:47.11 | JairunCaloth | who was it that built the term app? |
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| 04:53.00 | swetland | yawns |
| 04:53.30 | jbq_ | yawns too. it's soon gonna be time to sleep. |
| 04:54.05 | Damm | elad, right, you have to partiton your sd card properly. |
| 04:54.10 | Damm | elad, if you run fdisk that's easy |
| 04:54.16 | Damm | err linux |
| 04:54.24 | Damm | no clue how to fix it in windows |
| 04:55.17 | swetland | damm: think you can use the manage computer / manage disks or local disks or whatever |
| 04:55.33 | swetland | I figured it out once |
| 04:56.39 | sjschultze | I am making progress on extracting mtd2 but running stuck on a couple of things... anyone interested in helping me troubleshoot? |
| 04:59.23 | DarkriftX | wassssssup |
| 05:00.13 | RyeBrye | http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Building_the_HTC_Dream_Platform - for anyone wanting to build the platform |
| 05:00.19 | RyeBrye | sjschultze - how are you getting stuck? |
| 05:00.55 | sjschultze | I grabbed the image by catting mtd2, then I opened it in a hex editor and found what looks to be the start of a gzip, and saved just that portion to a .gz |
| 05:01.02 | sjschultze | gzip will unzip that and complain about junk at the end |
| 05:01.31 | swetland | rye: all the bits for the new libaudio stuff should be online tomrrow, at which point you shouldn't have to pull libaudio.so from the device |
| 05:01.41 | sjschultze | and looking at that, it looks like a cpio file but cpio won't extract it... complains about end of tape or something |
| 05:02.00 | RyeBrye | swetland - thanks... I'll update that then :) |
| 05:02.01 | swetland | sjschultze: it's a boot.img |
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| 05:02.33 | swetland | http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/system/core.git;a=tree;f=mkbootimg;h=15d514046e4dbe26bdb33a199c91367869bc257e;hb=master |
| 05:03.18 | sjschultze | ah, ok beginning to understand |
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| 05:06.04 | sjschultze | so I see that mkbootimg will create boot.img for me... but is there a reverse tool that takes an existing boot.img and pulls it apart into kernel and file tree (which I could edit and then glue back together)? |
| 05:06.16 | sjschultze | or is that task left to the reader? |
| 05:07.31 | RyeBrye | I think it's called unpacking usually if youw ant to search for info on how to do it |
| 05:07.49 | michaelrnovak | so ServerSocket is busted on android, wont work? |
| 05:08.14 | michaelrnovak | anyone using it in their app? |
| 05:10.55 | swetland | sj: there is not a reverse tool (we've never really needed such a thing) |
| 05:11.57 | swetland | it's a really simple file format though |
| 05:11.59 | romainguy_ | michaelnovakjr_: I'm using it |
| 05:12.05 | romainguy_ | michaelnovakjr_: that's how HierarchyViewer works |
| 05:12.13 | michaelrnovak | hm |
| 05:12.14 | romainguy_ | and there's nothing wrong with ServerSocket in my experience |
| 05:12.28 | michaelrnovak | romainguy_ i'm getting a permissions do not allow access on socket |
| 05:12.36 | michaelrnovak | action not acces |
| 05:12.42 | romainguy_ | even with INTERNET permission? |
| 05:12.45 | michaelrnovak | yep |
| 05:12.50 | swetland | are you trying to use a port numbre < 1024? |
| 05:13.07 | michaelrnovak | swetland: yea... not allowed? |
| 05:13.22 | swetland | not as a regular user (which apps run as) |
| 05:13.25 | JairunCaloth | where the hell is android.os.Exec |
| 05:13.38 | swetland | somebody was asking me about providing a way for apps to bind to "reserved" ports the other day |
| 05:13.51 | swetland | it's on the "we should do that" list for the platform |
| 05:13.52 | sjschultze | swetland: so you find the appropriate place to split it and then gunzip, edit, gzip, cat? |
| 05:13.58 | michaelrnovak | swetland: good to know |
| 05:14.25 | sjschultze | or, replace cat with mkbootimg? |
| 05:14.34 | swetland | well gunzip and cpio for the ramdisk |
| 05:14.49 | romainguy_ | michaelrnovak: only root can listen on ports < 1024 |
| 05:14.57 | swetland | the kernel is 1. a self-unzipping binary and 2. build from source you have access to, so unzippping it doesn't do much that's interesting |
| 05:15.11 | michaelrnovak | romainguy_: yea, that would be the cause |
| 05:15.32 | swetland | romain: yah, I'd like to set up some service so we could have permissions for apps to bind to various reserved ports |
| 05:15.41 | romainguy_ | that sounds like a nice idea |
| 05:15.43 | michaelrnovak | it would be nice |
| 05:15.51 | swetland | could different ways we could do it |
| 05:15.55 | romainguy_ | http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/meebo_android_im_multitasking.php |
| 05:15.57 | *** join/#android ttuttle (n=tom@MAROON.RES.CMU.EDU) |
| 05:16.07 | tmzt | all dvm apps run as one process now? |
| 05:16.32 | swetland | romain: nifty |
| 05:16.48 | *** join/#android oavdeev (n=oavdeev@79.120.41.39) |
| 05:16.52 | swetland | tmzt: most all dvm apps run in their own processes |
| 05:17.08 | swetland | a couple of the long-lived system apps/services run in shared processes to reduce memory pressure |
| 05:17.26 | romainguy_ | for instance contacts and Home (and some other stuff) share the process called "acore" |
| 05:17.34 | DarkriftX | RyeBrye, the wiki is coming along nicely |
| 05:18.06 | tmzt | you would have to have a vm api to start a new vm under a root permission process that would fork off a vm that could listen on priv ports? |
| 05:18.26 | *** join/#android ttuttle (n=tom@pdpc/supporter/student/gentoo.contributor.ttuttle) |
| 05:18.30 | ttuttle | jasta: ping |
| 05:18.32 | tmzt | (sorry, even saying that confuses me) |
| 05:19.02 | sjschultze | swetland: and assuming I hack off the ramdisk appropriately from the end (starting from 1F 8B in my hex editor), I'll be left with the pure kernel that I can just mkbootimg back together with my edited ramdisk? |
| 05:19.12 | swetland | I believe currently the rules for asking zygote to start a new instance are: |
| 05:19.21 | swetland | - root may ask for a vm running as any user |
| 05:19.31 | swetland | - system server may ask for a vm running as any user >= 1000 |
| 05:19.39 | swetland | s/system_server/system/ |
| 05:19.52 | swetland | - anybody else may only ask for a vm running as their uid |
| 05:20.25 | swetland | sj: assuming you also drop the 2k header, yah |
| 05:21.06 | sjschultze | ah, there's a 2k header on the front of the whole file? |
| 05:21.21 | tmzt | so if I wanted run, say, jigsaw (if thats still around) on port 80, that would make sense, but I'm just wondering how a new listening thread or something could gain a perimssion the parent vm doesn't have? |
| 05:21.44 | swetland | tmzt: there's not really a way |
| 05:21.51 | romainguy_ | swetland: http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=1207 :) |
| 05:21.57 | sjschultze | or do you mean between the kernel and the ramdisk in the original boot.img? |
| 05:22.04 | swetland | we'd either have to modify the kernel to use a different model for restricting reserved ports (similar to the inet/bt perms) |
| 05:22.31 | swetland | or we'd have to have a service running as root that would open the socket and pass it to the requesting app (if the app had the appropriate permission(s)) |
| 05:23.12 | swetland | sj: the boot.img has a 2kb header, followed by a kernel, a ramdisk, and (optionally) a second stage bootloader |
| 05:23.15 | swetland | http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/system/core.git;a=blob;f=mkbootimg/bootimg.h;h=242ab35db82be002005dbd3ce51e34dd7404d8e0;hb=master |
| 05:23.27 | swetland | there's even a little ascii art diagram there ^^ |
| 05:23.44 | sjschultze | ah yes, so there is |
| 05:23.47 | *** join/#android After_Math (n=i8860054@adsl-99-14-133-206.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net) |
| 05:24.05 | After_Math | where might I find information on the release notes for the upgrade? |
| 05:24.37 | swetland | romain: well they finally sorted out what was going on there |
| 05:25.18 | jbq_ | swetland: personally, I'd prefer a design where there's a permission around the low socket. It seems to me that it involves fewer modules, so there are fewer risks of something going wrong. |
| 05:26.00 | swetland | jbq: it is in fact simpler, though it doesn't allow you to be specific about which low sockets you provide access too |
| 05:26.11 | tmzt | well, I just never understood why classloader couldn't bring in a jvm .class over the wire for something like jini, which defeated the whole bytecode thing in the first place. now with something like PolicyKit with its dbus ipc and small privleged processes that do only one thing, they've ended up mapping every thing you could ever do as root on a unix system to an api. for a really secure system, you could actually prevent sysc |
| 05:26.13 | michaelrnovak | it would be nice for some apps |
| 05:26.23 | swetland | (if you want to have the user know that the app is using port 80 or 25 or whatnot) |
| 05:26.37 | sjschultze | and any reason I should be paranoid about trying to do this in order to edit init.rc and then loading it back onto my device? I can always rescue, as I understand it. |
| 05:26.53 | michaelrnovak | swetland: some apps it would be useful to have access to under port <1024 |
| 05:27.01 | swetland | definitely |
| 05:27.09 | swetland | it's just a matter of how to present that permission to the user |
| 05:27.12 | michaelrnovak | yea |
| 05:27.14 | swetland | and how fine grained it would be |
| 05:27.15 | michaelrnovak | definitely |
| 05:27.21 | After_Math | whats up with googles version of terminal, cant do shit with it |
| 05:27.33 | jbq_ | swetland: on the other hand, if we go too fine-grained, users will trivialize the notion of permissions and accept everything without looking, which ruins the purpose of the entire permission system. |
| 05:27.44 | michaelrnovak | swetland: i was looking to write an IRC client, but the ident request comes in on 113 |
| 05:27.48 | swetland | am: it runs /system/bin/sh in a vt100 emulator. what else do you want? ^^ |
| 05:28.02 | swetland | jbq: yup. always tradeoffs |
| 05:28.05 | tmzt | through jni or java.io ? |
| 05:28.17 | DarkriftX | ouch, no ident on irc would be bad for some networks |
| 05:28.33 | swetland | I can't imagine why anyone cares about ident anymore for irc |
| 05:28.43 | michaelrnovak | swetland: its used :( |
| 05:28.53 | swetland | since the bulk of users are using personal computers |
| 05:28.56 | tmzt | huh, will that even work with gprs proxied? |
| 05:28.56 | michaelrnovak | yea |
| 05:29.18 | swetland | hell, a couple years ago, I got booted off some network because a friend and I were both running irssi on the same machine |
| 05:29.27 | michaelrnovak | haha |
| 05:29.44 | ttuttle | swetland: wow, that's dumb as fuck. |
| 05:30.09 | ttuttle | swetland: was it really worth the effort to track you down? |
| 05:30.38 | michaelrnovak | without access to 113 the connect at least to freenode dies |
| 05:30.58 | DarkriftX | swetland, i agree and wish they would get rid of it, but some networks (fucknet as i refer to them) still require it sometimes |
| 05:31.04 | *** join/#android Cedric3 (n=cbeust@nat/google/x-7b3f3ce726aae265) |
| 05:31.35 | michaelrnovak | DarkriftX: yea, that's the problem i ran into |
| 05:31.48 | DarkriftX | we need a movement to rid the world of ident |
| 05:32.04 | DarkriftX | i guess not adding ident support in irc apps would be a good start |
| 05:32.12 | DarkriftX | they start losing users they might rethink it |
| 05:32.20 | *** join/#android kingkung (n=kingkung@65.173.101.2) |
| 05:32.50 | michaelrnovak | it would have been nice if it worked :) |
| 05:32.51 | swetland | and I had to explain the concept of multiuser machines to some kid |
| 05:32.51 | swetland | who totall didn't believe me and thought I was running some kind of bot ^^ |
| 05:32.58 | michaelrnovak | haha |
| 05:33.00 | michaelrnovak | moron |
| 05:36.18 | DarkriftX | so is there currently a way to get a root shell from the phone without having to telnet into it from a remote computer? |
| 05:36.27 | michaelrnovak | well, i'd atleast appreciate access to port 113 :) |
| 05:36.28 | spikebike | ya |
| 05:36.35 | DarkriftX | i bet a command line pdf viewer would be useful for some ppl |
| 05:36.39 | spikebike | install telnet and you can telnet into yourself ;-) |
| 05:39.31 | Sorium | anyone here takin public speaking lessons |
| 05:40.07 | michaelrnovak | huh? |
| 05:40.22 | Sorium | sorry REALLY off topic question |
| 05:40.46 | michaelrnovak | uh yep |
| 05:41.06 | ttuttle | suggests #android-publicspeaking |
| 05:41.20 | JairunCaloth | zhobbs: you around? |
| 05:42.36 | michaelrnovak | is pissed off at freenode |
| 05:43.04 | Sorium | haha |
| 05:43.22 | *** join/#android aufegu- (n=angu@116.41.93.89) |
| 05:45.39 | DarkriftX | spikebike, telnet into yourself using what app? |
| 05:45.46 | Sorium | Android = javaPopularity ++; |
| 05:46.04 | tmzt | and java syntax knowledge decreases? |
| 05:46.19 | tmzt | (not currently taking public speaking) |
| 05:46.19 | Sorium | wow that was really bad syntax |
| 05:46.33 | tmzt | wait, no thats postincrement |
| 05:46.44 | tmzt | better than dice.com |
| 05:47.13 | spikebike | DarkriftX er... telnet |
| 05:47.49 | DarkriftX | erm.... |
| 05:48.17 | DarkriftX | ok, start pterminal, start telnetd then you have an app called telnet to open to connect to the telnetd daemon? |
| 05:49.49 | sjschultze | has anyone figured out how to read or write the format of logo.rle? I've tried everything, including gimp and ImageMagick |
| 05:50.43 | tmzt | not sure, but really old paintbrush? |
| 05:50.51 | umdk1d3 | well rle is a type of bitmap compression |
| 05:50.55 | spikebike | ya pterminal -> telnetd then telnet localhost |
| 05:51.17 | sjschultze | right, but all the image programs that supposedly support it won't read it |
| 05:51.38 | tmzt | and rle is run length encoding, which can be almost any set of compression primitives that use that method |
| 05:51.47 | mattgyver83 | Darkriftx, telnetd = on phone. telnet from another machine, you can telnet from the phone to the phone. if thats what your trying to do. |
| 05:51.57 | mattgyver83 | cant* telnet from phone to phone |
| 05:52.37 | DarkriftX | im wanting to get a root shell via the phone itself |
| 05:53.02 | incandenza | there is a telnet app in the market |
| 05:53.07 | mattgyver83 | I dont think thats possible right now |
| 05:53.13 | andyross | Write an application that prompts the user to type "telnetd\r" and then connects to 127.0.0.1:23 |
| 05:53.18 | DarkriftX | ok, thats what i was asking |
| 05:53.19 | incandenza | so presumably you can telnet to 127.0.0.1. although I haven't tried it. |
| 05:54.54 | mattgyver83 | ive found some .apk files that dont properly install and have read around that its possible they could be built on an older SDK. Anyone know if this is a truth, will some apps just not run due to this? |
| 05:56.01 | RyeBrye | I used the Term program on the phone to both start telnetd and to also connect to it |
| 05:56.25 | sjschultze | connect with what command? |
| 05:56.42 | andyross | Easiest mechanism by far is just adb port forwarding and the telnet client on your linux box. |
| 05:57.29 | fadden0 | sticks his head out of the hole, doesn't see his shadow, goes back to Fallout 3 |
| 05:57.51 | swetland | I should play some more fallout 3 |
| 05:58.04 | swetland | this week has involved not nearly enough fallout 3 |
| 05:58.42 | RyeBrye | telnet 127.0.0.1 ? |
| 05:58.58 | swetland | sjschultze: http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/build.git;a=tree;f=tools/rgb2565;h=aa8e6dd23f17887e39ffd731b42c0eb6317bf867;hb=master |
| 05:59.13 | michaelrnovak | swetland: i agree |
| 05:59.19 | andyross | "adb forward tcp:XXXX tcp:23; telnet localhost XXXX" |
| 05:59.24 | RyeBrye | swetland - once the libaudio stuff is in tomorrow, should I uncomment out the stuff inthe local_manifests to get the msm7k stuff to build the libaudio? |
| 05:59.48 | tmzt | oh, that would have been helpful dumping kaiser screen, well 5652rgb would be |
| 05:59.48 | swetland | rye: actually it's all in now except for a new prebuilt kernel |
| 05:59.58 | sjschultze | swetland: do you know everything? |
| 06:00.08 | swetland | sjshultze: no |
| 06:00.17 | RyeBrye | disagrees. Swetland DOES in fact know everything |
| 06:00.19 | tmzt | (or I could just learn the bin math stuff and write one) |
| 06:00.49 | swetland | but the answers to *almost* every question about "how does <x> on g1 work" is in the source code on android.git.kernel.org |
| 06:00.51 | RyeBrye | swetland - so do I need the msm7k or does the htc_dream stuff work by itself wihtout needing libaudio? |
| 06:01.14 | swetland | (questions not readily answered involve radio firmware, the htc bootloader, and a couple proprietary libraries like libqcamera, libhgl) |
| 06:01.29 | swetland | rye: you definitely will want hardware/msm7k |
| 06:01.37 | tmzt | yeah, but I thought logo was in bl anyway |
| 06:01.49 | swetland | msm7k is generic support for msm7k platforms |
| 06:01.50 | *** join/#android mocsrox_ (n=wliu@c-24-6-189-189.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 06:01.57 | swetland | vendor/htc/dream is specific configuration and support for g1 |
| 06:02.27 | fadden0 | swetland does not know combination to safe |
| 06:02.48 | swetland | safe contains less that 250 lines of source code and is emptied nightly |
| 06:02.52 | andyross | On the subject of those irreadily answered questions: is there *any* public documentation available on the GPU? The closest I've found are some powerpoints about OpenGL on Brew. |
| 06:03.14 | swetland | andyross: sadly, not that I know of |
| 06:03.22 | andyross | Figured. |
| 06:03.31 | swetland | using the opengl get features apis you can get a fair bit of info about what the hw supports |
| 06:03.48 | RyeBrye | I'm working on a project to install an Nvidia 8800 in my G1... I'm halfway there ;) |
| 06:04.04 | tmzt | how's the pcie going? |
| 06:04.10 | RyeBrye | That's the half I haven't done yet |
| 06:04.15 | swetland | we had some notes on optimizing for the gpu in msm7k. I'll poke the graphics guy and see if we can get those tidied up and published somewhere |
| 06:04.19 | andyross | Yeah, and I can benchmark stuff to explore. But there are a few extensions exposed that don't have docs, and absolutely nothing about the overall hardware architecture. |
| 06:06.07 | swetland | andy: sent some folks an email about gpu stuff |
| 06:06.16 | mattgyver83 | how can i find out what port is in use when downloading from the market. When my firewall is enabled i cant download on my wireless connection. |
| 06:06.29 | RyeBrye | Has anyone worked on xen virtualization for the G1 yet? I want to run a couple of colocation servers on my phone |
| 06:06.30 | tmzt | andyross: well, some articles on 8k suggest 7k is fixed-pipeline? |
| 06:06.44 | spikebike | RyeBrye heh |
| 06:06.53 | tmzt | kvm-arm |
| 06:07.05 | tmzt | but you need to patch kernel |
| 06:07.15 | RyeBrye | is to afraid to touch the kernel |
| 06:07.40 | RyeBrye | is afraid the HTC bootloader might look for a signed kernel, and touching kernel could auto-brick the phone |
| 06:08.09 | tmzt | yes, so could ddXX anything to /dev/mtd2, as posted earlier |
| 06:08.09 | andyross | Yeah, I got that far. It's an ATI core. It has two texture units. Does hardware T&L under most circumstances (for frustratingly ambiguous definitions of "most"). Dunno if the innards are floating point or not. Dunno about dedicated framebuffer memory (but it exposes VBOs, which only make sense in a NUMA context...) |
| 06:08.56 | sjschultze | tmzt: I don't think that will work. You need to use the flash util (although I have not tried it yet) |
| 06:09.21 | andyross | RyeBrye: thinking about this, the recovery partition is itself a kernel/initrd. Surely a failed boot from the main kernel would just fallback to the recovery mode? Not that I'm about to try it, mind you. But I can't imagine why else there would be two full bootable kernels. |
| 06:09.40 | tmzt | I know, I just read that earlier (and I think someone tried it), that would only write ones to the nand?? at very least you would have to mtdXX erase it first |
| 06:10.02 | tmzt | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:10.14 | RyeBrye | andyross - I know with reasonable certainty that the recovery image can be replaced |
| 06:10.23 | swetland | andy: you are quite correct |
| 06:10.44 | sjschultze | tmzt: yes, you have to /dev/zero it first |
| 06:11.31 | RyeBrye | the flash util is pretty simple if you look at the code for it |
| 06:11.31 | andyross | Right. So the sane mode would be to leave the recovery kernel in place and reflash the main one, using the sdcard update mechanism to recover a broken boot. Again, I'm not about to try it. :) |
| 06:11.56 | RyeBrye | Well... I'd replace the recovery kernel from the main one first - and then verify that my recovery is working properly - because if recovery fails you can get back to the main one and re-tool the recovery |
| 06:12.15 | RyeBrye | I want to only put stuff on that I sign myself - because I trust myself |
| 06:12.20 | swetland | as a favor to everyone who wants more open phones in the future, avoiding flooding tmo with a bunch of returns of mysteriously failed phones would be a plus ^^ |
| 06:12.37 | DarkriftX | great idea |
| 06:12.39 | RyeBrye | swetland - yes, excellent point |
| 06:12.40 | tmzt | there is a key combination to get into recovery? I would worry about a kernel starting to boot and then that fall back not working |
| 06:12.53 | swetland | especially since it's not all that hard to differentiate between a typical flash failure and somebody playing impressive games with their filesystem and boot partition |
| 06:13.02 | DarkriftX | but think about ti this way. if they were more open, there woudl be less chance of bricking |
| 06:13.16 | sjschultze | tmzt: the forums say power+home |
| 06:13.23 | sjschultze | http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=442831 |
| 06:13.38 | tmzt | oh, that's not for the sulogin mode? |
| 06:13.40 | swetland | dark: you might think that way, but in my experience that is not quite how major cellular carriers think, typically |
| 06:13.50 | jbq_ | I was about to write the same. |
| 06:14.01 | DarkriftX | sjschultze and tmzt http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Boot_Modifiers |
| 06:14.37 | jbq_ | A carrier would think "those people hacked phones, cost us money to support them and replace the phones, let's be sure to lock them out harder next time". |
| 06:15.03 | spikebike | sad |
| 06:15.13 | spikebike | if only they could be as clued as linksys or nokia |
| 06:15.13 | tmzt | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:15.20 | tmzt | (for iPhone) |
| 06:15.22 | swetland | in any case, for whatever it's worth, there are people who are arguing for more rather than less open hardware (I am one of them), but the industry is slow to change |
| 06:15.41 | *** join/#android Hai-Fai (n=jarmo@hoasnet-fe35dd00-42.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 06:15.44 | DarkriftX | we can tell swetland |
| 06:15.48 | sjschultze | what is "bootloader mode"? |
| 06:16.02 | DarkriftX | you are more likely to warn us then tell us not to do something |
| 06:16.18 | swetland | well there's not a lot of point in telling you not to do something |
| 06:16.28 | swetland | as I doubt you'd seriously listen to me ^^ |
| 06:16.33 | swetland | which is natural |
| 06:16.43 | DarkriftX | sjschultze, bootloader mode is what most htc phones have that tmobile locked up.. normally lets you reflash the whole phone from an image |
| 06:17.09 | andyross | A lot of it is just technical ignorance and fear. Carriers are, after all, phone companies. I dealt closely with one major wireless company in a previous job, it really wasn't pretty. |
| 06:17.19 | RyeBrye | DarkriftX - Well... that image is usually a signed image |
| 06:18.05 | sjschultze | back to andyross' point, I think that if you were going to update one of the boot images you would want to do the main one |
| 06:18.12 | sjschultze | so you could recover from the recovery image |
| 06:18.27 | RyeBrye | It's an either / or |
| 06:18.39 | RyeBrye | if you screw the recovery, you can still kick out and boot to the main |
| 06:18.42 | DarkriftX | if you can reflash the recovery back to normal, id rather mess with that |
| 06:19.11 | RyeBrye | and I'd rather use recovery to reflash my main one than doing it in the OS itself |
| 06:19.14 | DarkriftX | thats like saying "id rather screw up my computer then my recovery discs" |
| 06:19.25 | sjschultze | but how do you know if you've screwed the recovery until you boot to it? And how do you boot into recovery? |
| 06:19.31 | RyeBrye | hold down power + home |
| 06:19.33 | DarkriftX | power+home |
| 06:19.38 | DarkriftX | http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Boot_Modifiers |
| 06:19.38 | DarkriftX | lol |
| 06:19.44 | RyeBrye | I added some too it |
| 06:19.44 | sjschultze | no, that just gives you the tool |
| 06:19.49 | andyross | I guess it's a taste issue. But the idea of flashing *both* the vendor kernels gives me the willies. :) |
| 06:20.15 | sjschultze | from the screen you get with power+home I don't see how to actually boot from that partition |
| 06:20.29 | RyeBrye | You are booted from that partition when you see that scren |
| 06:20.33 | DarkriftX | id like some images for that page RyeBrye but its hard to take screenshots from there lol |
| 06:20.35 | *** join/#android mluser-work (n=mluser-w@208.178.12.226) |
| 06:20.53 | RyeBrye | Yeah, I nkow - I don't think adb screencapture2 or whatever works before the phone is booted... :) |
| 06:21.00 | DarkriftX | sjschultze, you dont boot from it |
| 06:21.15 | DarkriftX | you reflash an update file to recover your system |
| 06:21.26 | DarkriftX | its not like a second system, its just there to flash an image to fix a fuckup |
| 06:21.33 | sjschultze | right, so the only way to test your recovery image is to flash it into the main image |
| 06:21.57 | sjschultze | which blows away your main image, which you don't want to do until you know the new one works |
| 06:22.00 | tmzt | RyeBrye: is it a linux image then, the recovery option? the recovery is done from linux? |
| 06:22.10 | RyeBrye | Yes, it is |
| 06:22.10 | RyeBrye | afaik |
| 06:22.10 | tmzt | RyeBrye: and not the bootloader |
| 06:22.13 | spikebike | crap my phone and 3 friends got an update 2 days ago to RC29 |
| 06:22.17 | RyeBrye | No, the bootloader is HTC's crap |
| 06:22.23 | spikebike | my wife's phone is still RC19 8-( |
| 06:23.47 | andyross | spikebike: Grab the sdcard update file and update her manually. |
| 06:23.59 | romainguy_ | or just wait for the update... |
| 06:24.01 | spikebike | ya, that's getting more tempting |
| 06:24.01 | romainguy_ | there's no rush |
| 06:24.02 | RyeBrye | What is the bluelight special, btw? |
| 06:24.11 | RyeBrye | (trackball + power) ? |
| 06:24.15 | spikebike | I wish I slurped a copy when I had it |
| 06:24.23 | spikebike | I suspect it's been erased post use |
| 06:24.28 | romainguy_ | spikebike: just wait for it |
| 06:24.31 | romainguy_ | seriously :) |
| 06:24.53 | RyeBrye | they aren't pushing out RC30 stuff yet are they? |
| 06:25.00 | RyeBrye | or fixed RC29's? |
| 06:25.27 | RyeBrye | But... http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=USB_Notification the USB notifications! :) |
| 06:25.49 | swetland | I fought hard for the usb notification! |
| 06:25.54 | RyeBrye | is glad |
| 06:26.07 | swetland | though I wish I had noticed they made it audiable |
| 06:26.08 | DarkriftX | spikebike, i have them all hosted on my site lol |
| 06:26.12 | RyeBrye | Every update should add a new notification :) |
| 06:26.12 | tmzt | what is usb notification, what's it for? |
| 06:26.15 | swetland | that's a little annoying ^^ |
| 06:26.39 | swetland | tmzt before rc29 by default the device would go into usb mass storage mode (making /sdcard unavailable to apps) whenever you plugged in usb |
| 06:26.39 | RyeBrye | tmzt - lets you mount your phone as a storage device easily |
| 06:26.40 | spikebike | tmzt to ask if you want to mount the storage or not |
| 06:26.40 | andyross | That is a fantastic feature, it should be noted. Although whoever decided to put tech jargon in the UI should be shot ("Mount"? You're kidding, right? Even windows geeks don't know that one) |
| 06:26.50 | DarkriftX | swetland, anyone got a lsit of what changed in each update? i need more info for that part of the wiki |
| 06:26.57 | swetland | after rc29 it puts up a notification that lets you turn that mode on if you like (less disruptive) |
| 06:27.00 | DarkriftX | or romainguy_, didnt notice you here |
| 06:27.06 | RyeBrye | tmzt -> screenshots here: http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=USB_Notification |
| 06:27.08 | JairunCaloth | OS X uses mount |
| 06:27.09 | swetland | dark: dunno if there are public changelists anywhere |
| 06:27.14 | swetland | there *should* be. |
| 06:27.23 | romainguy_ | I remember seeing a changelog from T=Mobile |
| 06:27.26 | romainguy_ | on their forums I think |
| 06:27.26 | DarkriftX | even something general |
| 06:27.40 | DarkriftX | yeah, i saw it but it was pretty.... um.... useless |
| 06:27.56 | RyeBrye | T-mobile also said that if you updated stuff from the SDCard when the OTA update came down your phone's chimney, it would find the cookies already eaten and piss on your carpet |
| 06:27.57 | romainguy_ | there wasn't much in the update really |
| 06:28.05 | DarkriftX | "fixed bootloader, fixed operating system, fixed other things" |
| 06:28.06 | romainguy_ | if we push out new features, you'll know :) |
| 06:28.11 | RyeBrye | Their forums aren't exactly tech-savvy in my experience |
| 06:28.36 | JairunCaloth | someone write a flash app for the web browser :-p |
| 06:28.39 | swetland | rye: what? I'll have you know that the recovery system is completely housebroken and we haven't had any issues of soiled carpets for months |
| 06:28.43 | *** join/#android ignaciogggg (n=ignaciog@host30.190-137-192.telecom.net.ar) |
| 06:28.48 | tmzt | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:28.54 | DarkriftX | tmo doesnt know that swetland |
| 06:29.03 | swetland | ah, carriers |
| 06:29.09 | RyeBrye | swetland - yeah, the post was "Don't do the SDCard update - because the update will get pushed to your phone OTA and it might break stuff if it's already been done." |
| 06:29.10 | tmzt | I guess the only alternative for windows is mtp/ptp and mtp is only for wma? |
| 06:29.17 | ignaciogggg | anybody knows how can I get a "*" number for USA? |
| 06:29.19 | swetland | they generally don't let me talk to carriers, for which I am actually happy |
| 06:29.21 | *** join/#android Laz (n=Laz1@28.184.119.70.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 06:29.23 | tmzt | I mean, windows media devices |
| 06:29.28 | ignaciogggg | a SMS gateway |
| 06:29.35 | andyross | actually quit a job because he kept having to talk to carriers. :) |
| 06:29.47 | DarkriftX | lol |
| 06:29.50 | RyeBrye | ignaciogggg - you want a shortcode for SMS? |
| 06:29.58 | ignaciogggg | yes Rye |
| 06:30.08 | RyeBrye | ignaciogggg - you have to pay a shitload of money - up front - and wait about 12 weeks to provision one |
| 06:30.19 | swetland | andyross: after danger I swore I would never do another cellular device |
| 06:30.24 | swetland | sadly, I am easily tricked |
| 06:30.33 | cbeust_ | That didn't go too well did it, Brian |
| 06:30.40 | swetland | no, no it didn't |
| 06:30.43 | ignaciogggg | I saw some where they give you the number and they get comission for each message |
| 06:30.47 | andyross | I loved the device work (well, not symbian). It was the customer relations and travel that got to me. |
| 06:30.58 | RyeBrye | ignaciogggg - http://celltrust.com/Products/SMS-Gateway/CellTrust-ShortCode.html that talks about the process |
| 06:31.16 | RyeBrye | ignaciogggg - you want to charge for each message? Are you just doing outbound or 2-way? |
| 06:31.17 | ignaciogggg | great link! |
| 06:31.42 | ignaciogggg | I will not charge, just outbound |
| 06:31.45 | RyeBrye | ignaciogggg - the people will tell you, however, that at the end of the year there is a backlog - so they kind of dont' process stuff |
| 06:31.57 | RyeBrye | ignaciogggg - you can get by with a shared shortcode, which is much cheaper |
| 06:32.08 | jbq_ | I left my previous job in the mobile industry to join google hoping to work on something else... and I ended up in the Android team. Ah, the irony. BTW, I love it, it's everything that I've wanted to see in a cell phone and then some. |
| 06:32.09 | RyeBrye | ignaciogggg - celltrust.com has them, or clickatell.com, or numerous others have various options |
| 06:32.25 | ignaciogggg | oh, yes, clickatell, I checked it before |
| 06:32.43 | RyeBrye | jbq - I did something similar... I quit my job today so I could spend my day using google on my cellphone. |
| 06:32.50 | RyeBrye | is kidding... he's still employed |
| 06:32.53 | ignaciogggg | shared shortcode? Mhh.... no, the number is the "key" for my project |
| 06:32.53 | DarkriftX | i love android also, the version that has had tmo's handcuffs removed that is |
| 06:33.10 | spikebike | ya, google's been exemplary |
| 06:33.22 | spikebike | alas tmo's trying to ship a phone as locked down as any other smartphone |
| 06:33.25 | DarkriftX | google needs to buy tmo so we can stop this bullshit |
| 06:33.29 | spikebike | heh |
| 06:33.30 | DarkriftX | get on that swetland |
| 06:33.43 | spikebike | or just ship a whitespace capable phone and skip the carrier ;-) |
| 06:33.55 | DarkriftX | heh |
| 06:34.11 | tmzt | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:34.12 | DarkriftX | imagine a g1 that was sold unlocked for at&t/tmo |
| 06:34.37 | RyeBrye | Deutsche Telekom (T-mobile's daddy) has a market cap of $78B |
| 06:34.57 | RyeBrye | But even if Sergey decided "Hey, why not" - it might kill android if Google owned a cell phone carrier |
| 06:35.19 | RyeBrye | 'cause... I think the OHA might be a little concerned with conflict of interest |
| 06:35.47 | DarkriftX | some oha members have a conflict already |
| 06:36.02 | DarkriftX | google should buy them all out |
| 06:36.06 | DarkriftX | they will anyways one of these days |
| 06:36.18 | DarkriftX | google buys everything it gets close to |
| 06:36.28 | RyeBrye | Is Google Earth for Android under development, BTW? |
| 06:37.15 | swetland | I have to say, I expected that we'd end up with a local root exploit eventually, but this was very much not the way I'd expected to see it work |
| 06:37.15 | RyeBrye | a version that did the night sky similar to the "compass mode" on street view - but had constellations labeled and such would be awesome |
| 06:37.35 | umdk1d3 | RyeBrye: oh that would ROCK :) |
| 06:37.37 | ttuttle | RyeBrye: /me thought about writing that while I was at Google, but never got around it. |
| 06:37.41 | ttuttle | *to it |
| 06:37.42 | spikebike | speaking of which |
| 06:37.48 | spikebike | can the compass be calibrated? |
| 06:37.57 | RyeBrye | spikebike - yes - wave your arms like a crazy monkey |
| 06:37.58 | spikebike | mine is 5-10 degrees off on each axis |
| 06:38.14 | tmzt | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:38.18 | RyeBrye | spikebike - if oyu do adb logcat and open up orienteer you can see it spitting out messages about the compass needing calibration |
| 06:38.26 | spikebike | cool |
| 06:38.41 | RyeBrye | if you move it around in figure-8's in different axises for a while it will stop saying that and it will seem much more accurate |
| 06:38.58 | RyeBrye | I used my compass + connetbot to help me aim the antenna in my attic |
| 06:39.04 | DarkriftX | spikebike - yes - wave your arms like a crazy monkey <---- technical slang for compass alignment |
| 06:39.09 | jbq_ | spikebike: the math behind the compass is inaccurate when both roll and pitch are non-zero. On top of that it doesn't compensate for the magnetic declination. |
| 06:39.23 | umdk1d3 | RyeBrye: using a hdhomerun for snr readings? =D |
| 06:39.27 | tmzt | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:39.27 | RyeBrye | yes :) |
| 06:39.34 | umdk1d3 | awesome <3 hdhomerun |
| 06:39.38 | spikebike | er, not sure if it's the compass or the acceleration sensor |
| 06:40.00 | RyeBrye | Yeah, HDHR rules - and digital snr and snq readings sure beats "Hey, honey - do you see any ghosts?" when you are doing antenna adjustments |
| 06:40.10 | jbq_ | probably the compass. the acceleration sensor has no calibration. |
| 06:40.37 | umdk1d3 | not to mention they LGPL'ed their entire stack =D |
| 06:40.47 | umdk1d3 | so its easy to write libs to do fun stuff |
| 06:40.50 | *** join/#android TheSarge (n=zsirc@unaffiliated/thesarge) |
| 06:40.58 | umdk1d3 | *client side stack |
| 06:41.09 | RyeBrye | I THOUGHT briefly about writing an app that would connect to antennaweb.org and get antenna info based on GPS location - then show a compass showing you how to orient it and would also connect and do the hdhomerun_config comands to get the readings - but... then I realized that only about 3 people would ever use it :) |
| 06:41.15 | TheSarge | so what is this telnet app that gives you a root shel? |
| 06:41.35 | spikebike | ryebrye dunno |
| 06:41.37 | *** join/#android romainguy (n=gfx@adsl-75-55-215-117.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 06:41.38 | RyeBrye | umdk1d3 - yeah, it is in desperate need of someone writing something to tie into MythTV's multirec capability |
| 06:41.38 | tmzt | until tv's have ethernet ports |
| 06:41.44 | tmzt | that work |
| 06:41.54 | jbq_ | RyeBrye: for that kind of application, cell-based location is precise enough, it's much faster and uses less battery. |
| 06:41.54 | spikebike | ryebrye many folks seem to be doing HDTV OTA |
| 06:42.02 | spikebike | and I'd say 75% of them end up at that site |
| 06:42.03 | RyeBrye | jbq - yes, you're true |
| 06:42.10 | RyeBrye | err - your're correct |
| 06:42.18 | spikebike | jbq er, no way |
| 06:42.35 | spikebike | many places only locate to about 1/2 a city, that's not enough to point an antenna |
| 06:42.44 | umdk1d3 | RyeBrye: wait ive recorded from both tuners on my hdhr before using myth--whats special about the multirec tree? |
| 06:43.26 | RyeBrye | umdk1d3 - multirec handles recording multiple things off of a single mux - so if you have ABC and NBC on one mux, and CBS and FOX on the other - you can record 4 shows on 2 tuners |
| 06:43.41 | umdk1d3 | oh awesome |
| 06:43.43 | DarkriftX | where is the monkey app located? |
| 06:43.44 | RyeBrye | that is more common on QAM than ATSC |
| 06:43.57 | umdk1d3 | yea we had clear qam in this town forever until a few months ago |
| 06:44.03 | umdk1d3 | like 12 channels packed per mux |
| 06:44.05 | jbq | spikebike: well, you can do it two-stage: if the fix you get from cell is precise enough (especially if you're far from your TV tower), go with it. Otherwise, go for GPS. |
| 06:44.30 | spikebike | In berkeley and inside of sacramento it's often within a block |
| 06:44.40 | spikebike | but in davis or even slightly outside of sacramento it's often awful |
| 06:44.47 | umdk1d3 | rumor has it that fios still offers clear qam, and probably always will? because the channel filtering happens further up the chain |
| 06:44.47 | tmzt | wait, he's putting the phone on the antenna, isn't he? |
| 06:44.53 | spikebike | I thought I had the worlds lamest GPS in my g1 as I drove home |
| 06:44.58 | spikebike | turns out the gps was off by default |
| 06:45.01 | ignaciogggg | RyeBrye, back to the shortcode thing |
| 06:45.04 | tmzt | or what's the compass for? |
| 06:45.16 | jbq | cells are very small in densely populated areas, much larger in rural areas. |
| 06:46.33 | RyeBrye | but even on QAM - when you hit say 38 and it has 16.1, 16.2, and 16.3 on it - you could theoretically record all of those channels simulateously |
| 06:46.33 | RyeBrye | s/QAM/ATSC/ |
| 06:46.58 | umdk1d3 | BOTT! |
| 06:47.03 | umdk1d3 | kill eeet |
| 06:47.06 | DarkriftX | thanks infobot |
| 06:47.06 | infobot | no problem, DarkriftX |
| 06:47.08 | RyeBrye | umdk1d3 - when you use hdhomerun_config and get status on a tuner- it doesn't block the tuner from working right? you can get the status and the tuner will still spit out whatever to the other machine? Maybe an HDHR status monitor app would be cool to write - throw a compass on it and you're good to go |
| 06:47.08 | RyeBrye | That sucks. ATSC is way better anyway if you get the same channels |
| 06:47.08 | RyeBrye | well... not necessarily way better - but usually way better bitrates |
| 06:47.09 | DarkriftX | lol |
| 06:47.11 | tmzt | yeah, you can also cat the ts if you don't like your diskspace |
| 06:48.44 | RyeBrye | ignaciogggg - what do you need to know? |
| 06:48.52 | RyeBrye | tmzt - using the compass to aim the antenna in the best direction for ATSC TV reception... and man... this IRC is lagged for me :) |
| 06:49.11 | DarkriftX | we can tell RyeBrye |
| 06:49.12 | tmzt | makes alot more sense then what I said |
| 06:49.17 | DarkriftX | you spit like 4x lines at once |
| 06:49.28 | RyeBrye | always types 4 lines at once |
| 06:49.36 | RyeBrye | has quad-core |
| 06:50.16 | RyeBrye | Anectodataly - whoever put the antenna in my attic had it turned in the worst possible direction. It is a big YAGI style one - and when I adjusted it, I had to turn it basically 90 degrees |
| 06:50.22 | spikebike | has quad core but is lusting after the new intel 8 thread chips |
| 06:50.38 | RyeBrye | Well... I guess it was ALMOST the worst - I guess it wasn't 180 degrees |
| 06:50.47 | tmzt | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:51.14 | spikebike | you mean the leaks in performance for ssl like stuff? |
| 06:52.02 | tmzt | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:52.20 | spikebike | I thought that was on lkml |
| 06:52.27 | spikebike | I know of nothing that I'd consider serious |
| 06:52.43 | spikebike | was it real leakage? |
| 06:53.02 | spikebike | or just that you could detect cache footprint and jump locality on shared cores? |
| 06:53.19 | tmzt | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:53.48 | spikebike | I don't recall any real exposure... i.e. the contents of memory or registers |
| 06:54.10 | tmzt | ok |
| 06:54.15 | spikebike | just that if you know they were running an openssl keygen you could do a timing attack to see how long they were in each loop |
| 06:55.52 | *** join/#android Tetracomm (n=nicholas@72.252.29.2) |
| 06:59.55 | Tetracomm | Hello. |
| 07:00.09 | ttuttle | Tetracomm: Hi. |
| 07:00.12 | Tetracomm | Can I develop Android applications in languages other than Java? |
| 07:00.24 | ttuttle | Tetracomm: Not yet. |
| 07:00.43 | Tetracomm | Lawd. :( |
| 07:00.47 | RyeBrye | There is a roadmap for a language other than java? |
| 07:00.52 | Tetracomm | I don't know Java. |
| 07:01.04 | Tetracomm | Do you think it will support C/C++ any time soon? |
| 07:01.06 | ttuttle | RyeBrye: Not that I know of. |
| 07:01.09 | ttuttle | Tetracomm: Probably not. |
| 07:01.13 | RyeBrye | NEVAR |
| 07:01.20 | swetland | untrue |
| 07:01.21 | Tetracomm | Err. |
| 07:01.30 | ttuttle | Oh, I am speaking of stuff that runs in the VM. |
| 07:01.32 | Tetracomm | What other languages might it support? |
| 07:01.35 | cbeust_ | Tetracomm: what's your main language? |
| 07:01.42 | RyeBrye | Could be worse... could be Objective-C only :) |
| 07:01.45 | ttuttle | You could compile C/C++ code and call it from Java, but that's not officially supported. |
| 07:01.47 | Tetracomm | Delphi, but I am learning C now |
| 07:01.49 | Tetracomm | . |
| 07:01.51 | ttuttle | RyeBrye: ;-) |
| 07:01.53 | swetland | c extensions via jni and bundled .so are possible in 1.0. the ndk (native dev kit) is not ready for prime time yet |
| 07:01.56 | cbeust_ | Tetracomm: ah, |
| 07:02.06 | cbeust_ | Java is a different family, you'll have some learning to do |
| 07:02.12 | tmzt | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:02.13 | swetland | you could target dex from different frontends |
| 07:02.32 | swetland | and longer term, the platform is intended to be able to host different runtime environments, but that's a ways out |
| 07:02.34 | tmzt | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:02.50 | cbeust_ | tmzt: Java has pointers, just not pointer arithmetic |
| 07:03.07 | swetland | the process model used is partially for security sandboxing and partially to provide for (longer term) different environments coexisting |
| 07:03.10 | tmzt | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:03.56 | swetland | the security model does not depend on a virtual machine. the virtual machine is there because java is a pretty decent language for this stuff, with good existing tools, and a large userbase |
| 07:07.33 | Tetracomm | Ok. |
| 07:08.06 | *** join/#android moqfec (n=moqfec@203.171.199.67) |
| 07:08.59 | spikebike | heh |
| 07:09.29 | spikebike | seems like eclipse has evolved from a nice tool for development and flipped around into being a reason to use java ;-) |
| 07:09.52 | cbeust_ | Totally agree, spikebike |
| 07:11.38 | *** join/#android uncategorized (n=uncatego@c-76-20-61-57.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 07:11.47 | RyeBrye | feels differently about Eclipse |
| 07:11.59 | RyeBrye | I think Eclipse has evolved into a reason to buy a crapton of RAM perhaps |
| 07:12.02 | uncategorized | when a contact is set "directly to voicemail", is there anyway to get it so that their calls do not appear in the call log? |
| 07:12.04 | cbeust_ | Eclipse or IDEA, whatever rocks your boat |
| 07:12.19 | RyeBrye | Yes, IDEA rocks my boat and rows it at the same time! :) |
| 07:12.45 | RyeBrye | most of my bad feelings for eclipse stem from the sub-par plugin that Adobe has for Flex development |
| 07:14.15 | cbeust_ | (bath water + baby).throw() |
| 07:14.40 | RyeBrye | Well... in order to get the bath water in there, I'd have to find the installer for additional stuff under the Help menu first |
| 07:14.42 | RyeBrye | ;) |
| 07:20.26 | muthu | finally, after switching to jdk5.. 'make sdk' works |
| 07:20.29 | muthu | phew |
| 07:21.48 | spikebike | from? |
| 07:21.51 | spikebike | 1.6 doesn't work? |
| 07:22.30 | muthu | yep, 1.6 fails |
| 07:23.39 | spikebike | sad, I hope they fix that |
| 07:24.06 | muthu | its not officially supported yet |
| 07:24.57 | *** join/#android eton_ (n=eton@ppp-58-8-9-118.revip2.asianet.co.th) |
| 07:25.28 | cbeust_ | How does it fail? |
| 07:26.31 | muthu | http://www.evan129.com/2008/11/02/android-platform-study-tips-eng/ |
| 07:27.37 | muthu | not sure, what it is.. but jdk1.6 never generated sdk |
| 07:27.50 | muthu | it did only sdk docs |
| 07:27.54 | cbeust_ | Looks like the doclet is using non public classes |
| 07:28.03 | muthu | looks like it |
| 07:28.07 | cbeust_ | sun.util.* |
| 07:28.10 | cbeust_ | not surprising |
| 07:29.06 | RyeBrye | jerks |
| 07:30.05 | *** join/#android anno^da_ (n=anno^da@p5B07FE14.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 07:30.11 | tmzt | is that Throwable (is Object Throwable)? |
| 07:31.34 | muthu | Object is not throwable.. |
| 07:32.04 | tmzt | thanks, but I shouldn't scroll back and respond to that stuff anyway |
| 07:34.56 | zodttd | "You could compile C/C++ code and call it from Java, but that's not officially supported." <--- Using something like Swig? |
| 07:36.18 | cbeust_ | JNI |
| 07:36.24 | zodttd | Ahhh |
| 07:42.08 | zodttd | One more question ;) ...I heard someone ported a GameBoy Advance emulator to Android already. Got me thinking as to whether they were able to use dynamic recompilation. Is there a way/a need to clear the instruction cache on something such as the G1, and would the JVM interfere with dynamically compiling and executing code on the fly? My guess is something such as a dynarec wouldnt be feasible. |
| 07:42.38 | *** join/#android mokolade (n=mokolade@85.221.112.173) |
| 07:44.46 | spikebike | zod: dalvik does nothing on the fly |
| 07:45.00 | spikebike | it's a compile time conversion from jvm -> dex |
| 07:46.29 | *** join/#android eton (n=eton@ppp-58-8-215-133.revip2.asianet.co.th) |
| 07:46.31 | zodttd | Hmm, so would that let me be able to write dynamically executed code (a dynarec) on this platform? |
| 07:47.23 | spikebike | you can write an interpreter of course |
| 07:47.32 | zodttd | Yes true |
| 07:47.38 | spikebike | but I don't believe dynamic compiliation/JIT is feasible at the moment |
| 07:47.51 | spikebike | I believe the gameboy folks mentioned horrible performanc |
| 07:47.53 | zodttd | Ah ok. Yeah I had a feeling ;) |
| 07:48.12 | spikebike | there's a google I/O talk on dalvik that is pretty good |
| 07:48.22 | spikebike | I recomment it (it's on youtube) |
| 07:48.29 | spikebike | or somewhere google can find anywas |
| 07:48.31 | zodttd | ok Ill search for it |
| 07:48.34 | zodttd | heh yeah :) |
| 07:50.03 | zodttd | Ah, it was a Gameboy emulator. I was told GBA. This makes more sense now! I was wondering where that performance was coming from! :) |
| 07:51.10 | spikebike | what performance? ;-) |
| 07:51.19 | zodttd | Heh ;P |
| 07:53.18 | zodttd | I've done a few ports of emulators to the iPhone (ugh!) and look to get some homebrew games (original titles) done for the G1 to start, and if possible however unlikely, go for some emulation. Is there one community site better than another for this sort? |
| 07:54.35 | spikebike | Hrm, good question to ask |
| 07:54.43 | spikebike | I just came across |
| 07:54.44 | spikebike | er |
| 07:54.53 | zodttd | First thing I saw was androidcommunity.com |
| 07:55.14 | oyeoj | i'm fairly unimpressed by ^ |
| 07:55.29 | zodttd | By the title of the google listing, I would be too |
| 07:56.02 | zodttd | It was one of the "Will we ever see [insert hard to accomplish app here]" |
| 07:56.08 | spikebike | http://www.rbgrn.net/blog/2008/11/getting-started-in-android-game-development.html |
| 07:56.19 | spikebike | not very detailed though 8-( |
| 07:56.24 | zodttd | checking |
| 07:56.50 | spikebike | It's kinda early it seems |
| 07:57.18 | spikebike | I kinda expect it to crystalize a bit into 4-5 places specializaing in things like hacking the g1 |
| 07:57.21 | spikebike | application review |
| 07:57.21 | spikebike | s |
| 07:57.31 | spikebike | development for the g1 |
| 07:57.45 | zodttd | Yeah. I know of a few sites getting ready to pop up for Android. |
| 07:57.48 | spikebike | but here's not a bad place to ask |
| 07:59.36 | zodttd | Oh, I dug this up from my buddies site: http://www.modmygphone.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page#2D_and_3D_Graphics |
| 08:02.37 | *** join/#android MIR100 (n=MIR100@24-148-89-37.frg-bsr1.chi-frg.il.cable.rcn.com) |
| 08:04.18 | poetic_folly|G5 | heh hi zodttd |
| 08:06.32 | zodttd | He lives! :) |
| 08:06.33 | zodttd | heya |
| 08:07.03 | zodttd | poetic_folly|G5: Definitely building up that wiki will be a good thing |
| 08:07.03 | poetic_folly|G5 | you see saurik is working diligently on the G1 too now? |
| 08:07.08 | zodttd | No! Awesome! |
| 08:07.13 | poetic_folly|G5 | zodttd: help me out. ;) |
| 08:07.19 | zodttd | k ;) |
| 08:07.26 | poetic_folly|G5 | saurik is nearing getting DEBIAN running on it |
| 08:07.43 | zodttd | Ohh sheeze...! |
| 08:07.51 | zodttd | That would be great news for me |
| 08:07.52 | zodttd | heh |
| 08:08.00 | zodttd | Is he in need of help? |
| 08:08.11 | zodttd | or silently working alone on his endevours? |
| 08:08.29 | poetic_folly|G5 | zodttd: nah, he told me he thought he'dd have it running today sometime |
| 08:08.45 | ionstorm | where is the browser files on the device located |
| 08:09.32 | zodttd | poetic_folly|G5: Well if you get a chance to speak to him, let him know i'm coming and I will help where I can :) |
| 08:10.14 | poetic_folly|G5 | sure, will do. been chatting with him off and on tonight. hows your work coming? i'm trying to build up the mmg wiki. so far only myself and living_sword (neerhaj) been working on it. |
| 08:10.27 | poetic_folly|G5 | all help would be appreciated. ;) |
| 08:10.27 | ionstorm | where are settings stored for apps on the g1 |
| 08:11.14 | poetic_folly|G5 | ionstorm: maybe data/app? |
| 08:11.22 | poetic_folly|G5 | or data/data/ |
| 08:11.49 | cbeust_ | You mean the shared preferences for apps? |
| 08:11.52 | cbeust_ | Or the global settings? |
| 08:12.02 | ionstorm | well settings for the browser im looking for |
| 08:12.05 | cbeust_ | If the former, /data/data/<package>/foo.xml |
| 08:12.07 | ionstorm | and settings for gmail |
| 08:12.10 | zodttd | poetic_folly|G5: Well my work is slow but steady. Still doin the iPhone stuff, but I have a cool lil original game I could port to the G1 once I get a feel for things. |
| 08:12.13 | ionstorm | k |
| 08:12.17 | cbeust_ | actually there's a shared_preferences directory in there |
| 08:12.34 | ionstorm | is that directory refreshed after reboot or saved |
| 08:12.38 | poetic_folly|G5 | zodttd: nice. that'll be fun. |
| 08:12.57 | poetic_folly|G5 | i got you that unlock code, right? i forget if i emailed you... |
| 08:12.59 | zodttd | poetic_folly|G5: Yeah, should be a good test app. |
| 08:13.04 | zodttd | Yeah I got it :) |
| 08:13.10 | zodttd | I replied too heh |
| 08:13.12 | poetic_folly|G5 | oh cool |
| 08:13.58 | poetic_folly|G5 | oh thats right |
| 08:14.03 | poetic_folly|G5 | man my days are blurring together |
| 08:14.27 | spikebike | zodttd yeah pondering a game myself |
| 08:14.39 | *** join/#android romainguy (n=gfx@adsl-75-55-215-117.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 08:15.03 | zodttd | poetic_folly|G5: been busy ? ;) |
| 08:15.17 | zodttd | spikebike: Hows the Android Market handling? |
| 08:15.39 | poetic_folly|G5 | zodttd: like crazy. kid is almost 10 weeks old now, ModMyGphone is just starting to take off, and MMi is busier than ever with a bunch of new stuff. i never sleep. |
| 08:15.51 | zodttd | I bet with more phones emerging with the platform, it will get huge |
| 08:16.08 | zodttd | poetic_folly|G5: No sleep is good sometimes ;P |
| 08:16.24 | spikebike | handling? |
| 08:16.50 | zodttd | I was wondering if the sales figures are decent... |
| 08:17.05 | poetic_folly|G5 | zodttd: yah, that's the thought - more phones = more traffic. and yah, no sleep is good. means i'm staying above the rest of the economy at least, haha. |
| 08:17.11 | spikebike | oh no sales yet |
| 08:17.13 | poetic_folly|G5 | zodttd: its all free so far |
| 08:17.16 | muthu | gdsx: you there? |
| 08:17.17 | zodttd | ahh ok! |
| 08:17.33 | poetic_folly | sales start uh... q1? |
| 08:18.02 | zodttd | gives people time to be first in line :P |
| 08:18.12 | spikebike | well you can list dmos and charge offsite |
| 08:18.40 | zodttd | ah true |
| 08:20.25 | *** join/#android mfrnc (n=mfrnc@210-84-32-12.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 08:20.30 | DarkriftX | http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page anyone see anything vital that is missing? |
| 08:21.53 | spikebike | i see that connectbot doesnt auto rec urls. |
| 08:22.00 | cbeust_ | "Hello Android, you are my bitch"? |
| 08:22.12 | DarkriftX | lol, RyeBrye did that |
| 08:22.32 | cbeust_ | Doesn't exactly exhale an impression of professionalism. |
| 08:22.46 | DarkriftX | i was gonna edit it to be more pg13 but dont have the tools atm |
| 08:23.11 | cbeust_ | As in putting a black rectangle on the second sentence? :) |
| 08:23.17 | *** join/#android cutmasta (n=cutmasta@62.225.134.181) |
| 08:23.19 | DarkriftX | lol |
| 08:24.16 | ionstorm | im trying to find the boolean name= that enabled fileupload in the browser |
| 08:24.21 | ionstorm | any ideas |
| 08:25.00 | *** join/#android diaflux (n=diaflux@S0106001cf0f7fba0.vs.shawcable.net) |
| 08:25.33 | *** part/#android ignaciogggg (n=ignaciog@host30.190-137-192.telecom.net.ar) |
| 08:25.33 | DarkriftX | fixed cbeust_ :) |
| 08:25.37 | DarkriftX | didnt think of that |
| 08:25.45 | DarkriftX | was thinking of how to edit the last word |
| 08:26.41 | cbeust_ | Better :) |
| 08:26.55 | RyeBrye | I got rid of the image :) |
| 08:27.00 | RyeBrye | It has outlived its usefulness |
| 08:27.23 | DarkriftX | lol |
| 08:27.45 | DarkriftX | i feel like something major is missing but cant figure out what |
| 08:27.52 | DarkriftX | i added a page on forcing the updates |
| 08:28.03 | DarkriftX | fixed some of my links (still learning this wiki stuff) |
| 08:28.07 | oyeoj | tethering? |
| 08:28.20 | DarkriftX | thats missing on the phone, not just the wiki |
| 08:28.33 | DarkriftX | or did someone get a ssh tethering method working |
| 08:28.45 | RyeBrye | no, adb tethering |
| 08:29.22 | spikebike | web proxy sounded reasonable |
| 08:31.22 | *** join/#android pjv (n=pjv@91.178.166.162) |
| 08:32.43 | RyeBrye | anyone know how to compile C code for this thing on something other than debian? |
| 08:32.52 | RyeBrye | My hello world attempts are segfaulting :/ |
| 08:33.14 | ionstorm | hmm is upload capability in the android browser even coded in |
| 08:35.39 | ionstorm | anyone know the key combo for the htc fieldtest |
| 08:36.07 | *** join/#android Blime (n=blime@c-24-125-134-53.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 08:36.53 | tmzt | saurik: you doing chroot or something else? |
| 08:37.54 | *** join/#android tauno (n=tauntz@118.192.50.195.sta.estpak.ee) |
| 08:40.19 | RyeBrye | ionstorm - I just use anycut to get it |
| 08:41.20 | ionstorm | k |
| 08:41.45 | ionstorm | u seen meebo? |
| 08:41.53 | ionstorm | its a start for an im app |
| 08:41.56 | ionstorm | lol |
| 08:42.18 | poetic_folly | ah didn't realize saurik was in here |
| 08:43.36 | zodttd | lol |
| 08:44.42 | BHSPitMonkey | poetic_folly, woah. |
| 08:44.51 | poetic_folly | oh btw zodttd, nice on vlc4iphone |
| 08:44.56 | poetic_folly | BHSPitMonkey: sup |
| 08:45.01 | BHSPitMonkey | double woah. |
| 08:45.06 | poetic_folly | ? |
| 08:45.30 | BHSPitMonkey | Okay, everybody from the other network, raise your hand and identify yourselves |
| 08:45.32 | DarkriftX | anyone tested these modified recovery images? |
| 08:45.50 | poetic_folly | raises hand |
| 08:45.55 | RyeBrye | dream_kill has |
| 08:46.08 | RyeBrye | well, I don't know which specifically you are talking about |
| 08:46.09 | BHSPitMonkey | poetic_folly, maybe we should branch off to #iphone-hackers-on-android |
| 08:46.09 | RyeBrye | but he has done it on his |
| 08:46.27 | poetic_folly | BHSPitMonkey: heh. yah the gangs all here. |
| 08:46.36 | DarkriftX | cool |
| 08:46.36 | poetic_folly | even got a modmy site for it. ; |
| 08:46.44 | DarkriftX | have you tried any updates since installing it? |
| 08:46.56 | BHSPitMonkey | poetic_folly, so, I wonder when Saurik's gonna give us some Cydroid love :P |
| 08:46.57 | RyeBrye | He has, I haven't |
| 08:47.01 | DarkriftX | and does it allow downgrading to older firmwares? |
| 08:47.08 | BHSPitMonkey | poetic_folly, yes, I looked around the site a few days ago |
| 08:47.10 | poetic_folly | completely OT, but BHSPitMonkey I do believe you first told me about tab completion. thank you. lol |
| 08:47.22 | swetland | you guys going to port the platform to mach/bsd? ^^ |
| 08:47.22 | RyeBrye | DarkriftX - sure - you just modify the update script - that's where the downgrading is controlled |
| 08:47.32 | DarkriftX | nie |
| 08:47.34 | DarkriftX | nice* |
| 08:47.40 | DarkriftX | so installing this now is a big + |
| 08:47.44 | zodttd | poetic_folly: No way! How long were you on IRC without tab completion? |
| 08:47.45 | zodttd | heh |
| 08:47.53 | poetic_folly | zodttd: months |
| 08:47.55 | poetic_folly | :D |
| 08:47.56 | zodttd | whoa, impressive :) |
| 08:47.56 | DarkriftX | can resign ota's to install, can downgrade if they force an ota on you that takes away root etc |
| 08:48.00 | RyeBrye | DarkriftX - did someone prebuild one? |
| 08:48.02 | RyeBrye | I wouldn't trust one that I didn't build myself |
| 08:48.07 | DarkriftX | http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=443041 |
| 08:48.12 | poetic_folly | kept trying to figure out how the hell BHSPitMonkey spelled his name |
| 08:48.14 | poetic_folly | lol |
| 08:48.23 | zodttd | Must of been wondering why people always used your exact nickname when typing! |
| 08:48.26 | zodttd | lol! |
| 08:48.35 | poetic_folly | i just thought they were all thorough |
| 08:48.38 | poetic_folly | ;) |
| 08:48.39 | BHSPitMonkey | :) |
| 08:49.33 | poetic_folly | anyway almost 4 am. time for me to hit the rack, video shoot at 9 am. sigh. |
| 08:49.49 | zodttd | same |
| 08:49.51 | ionstorm | How will we regain root after a significant firmware upgrade? |
| 08:50.02 | zodttd | have fun pr0ning poetic_folly, night |
| 08:50.08 | DarkriftX | ionstorm, im hoping thats what this recovery mod will help with |
| 08:50.12 | poetic_folly | haha zodttd thanks |
| 08:50.30 | ionstorm | word |
| 08:50.35 | tmzt | swetland: aapl would just love that, wouln't they? ) |
| 08:50.40 | *** join/#android oavdeev (n=oavdeev@79.120.41.39) |
| 08:51.43 | swetland | tmzt: not being an apple employee, I would not feel comfortable speculating on their opinions ^^ |
| 08:51.53 | swetland | but *I* would think it was pretty cute |
| 08:52.02 | tmzt | could be fun to support X though, at least for individual apps as there are other approaches being taken on those devices |
| 08:52.28 | DarkriftX | x could work |
| 08:52.41 | DarkriftX | i have x on a 216mhz pda with 64mb ram :S |
| 08:52.42 | tmzt | well there are claims that vm's just aren't allowed in store |
| 08:53.03 | tmzt | DarkriftX: which? |
| 08:53.12 | DarkriftX | nec mobilepro 900c |
| 08:53.25 | DarkriftX | has a slimmed down debian on it |
| 08:53.29 | DarkriftX | icewm |
| 08:53.33 | tmzt | DarkriftX: unfortunately X won't work on here (q) |
| 08:53.40 | DarkriftX | even has firefox! lol |
| 08:53.51 | swetland | you could probably put together an X server that used surfacemanager surfaces for its backingstore put together if you wanted |
| 08:54.03 | swetland | and actually arrange to have X apps coexist with native apps |
| 08:54.21 | tmzt | yeah, have that with debian armel, had to build xserver-xfbdev |
| 08:55.02 | *** join/#android eton_ (n=eton@ppp-58-8-3-157.revip2.asianet.co.th) |
| 08:55.04 | tmzt | ok, but I was talking about the other way around |
| 08:55.06 | DarkriftX | damn im gonna be pissed if by the time i can afford a g1 they are all patched |
| 08:55.23 | RyeBrye | I'm guessing they will be all patched soon :/ |
| 08:55.36 | RyeBrye | there's likely another exploit - but it will be LOT harder |
| 08:55.48 | tmzt | very slow to type, need g1 |
| 08:56.00 | *** join/#android hank (n=hank@124.254.5.153) |
| 08:56.00 | swetland | rye: yeah, you guys totally got a freebie the first time around |
| 08:56.01 | DarkriftX | someone needs to buy lots of them, reload the recovery image and resell them for like $30 more then they paid |
| 08:56.01 | tmzt | 5 rows keys |
| 08:56.14 | swetland | cannot believe we missed that one |
| 08:56.16 | DarkriftX | well if i buy one that cannot be rooted ill return the fucker |
| 08:56.50 | DarkriftX | as it is, its just a phone with pretty apps.... |
| 08:57.02 | swetland | recalls checking serial numbers on boxes before buying extra psps back in the day ^^ |
| 08:57.03 | tmzt | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:57.16 | swetland | the fry's employee was very confused as to why that mattered |
| 08:57.22 | DarkriftX | lol swetland i bet |
| 08:57.33 | DarkriftX | they are always last to know (or first and you wouldnt find one) |
| 08:57.38 | swetland | "no, no, I need to see the box first" |
| 08:57.54 | swetland | tmzt: console isn't ttyS0 |
| 08:58.02 | DarkriftX | google should have taken longer to patch it |
| 08:58.11 | DarkriftX | or should patch ota, but not new boxed units |
| 08:58.38 | DarkriftX | this "g1 rooted" news will probably spike sales, and users will be pissed if they get updated units |
| 08:58.48 | ionstorm | lol |
| 08:58.53 | swetland | the sequence of events that lead to this (as best I can see), is we moved to the fiq serial debugger and removed console=ttyMSM2 a while back |
| 08:58.57 | romainguy | DarkriftX: I seriously doubt that such a news would spike sales :)) |
| 08:59.00 | swetland | which ended up leaving console as tty1 |
| 08:59.09 | jsherman | is there somewhere I can read details on this bug |
| 08:59.12 | swetland | *but* that had no effect because of the console switching code |
| 08:59.16 | romainguy | DarkriftX: the real solution is to have patched g1s, but to offer totally unlocked dev units |
| 08:59.19 | swetland | which we later removed, because it deadlocked |
| 08:59.30 | swetland | romain: that's crazy talk. we'd never do something like that ^^ |
| 08:59.32 | ionstorm | we gotta find a way to save battery life without disabling shit |
| 08:59.45 | DarkriftX | your prob right romainguy but all i know is i like the g1 more as a tiny computer and less as a phone |
| 08:59.47 | romainguy | swetland: I'm just saying it'd be nice :) |
| 09:00.00 | romainguy | DarkriftX: but that's because you're not the typical phone consumer |
| 09:00.01 | RyeBrye | totaly unlocked dev units would be nice - but $$ most likely |
| 09:00.39 | romainguy | DarkriftX: all the persons I met at the T-Mobile store on the first day the G1 was sold were definitely to the type interested by using a shell on a phone ^^ |
| 09:00.50 | romainguy | hence my comment: the real solution is to have dev devices |
| 09:00.58 | DarkriftX | i bet |
| 09:01.03 | umdk1d3 | raises hand, yes i would buy a completely unlocked dev device |
| 09:01.32 | RyeBrye | Yes, it is true |
| 09:01.41 | DarkriftX | i bet at&t would like unlocked unit owners to switch over to them :) |
| 09:01.46 | tmzt | swetland: yeah, you had said fbcon was pulled because of that chvt issue |
| 09:01.51 | DarkriftX | they would welcome you with open bandwidth, erm arms |
| 09:01.53 | RyeBrye | People I've mentioned in passing to that the G1 was hacked were surprised it even needed to be haked |
| 09:02.03 | jsherman | do t-mobile stores have demo units in store |
| 09:02.04 | DarkriftX | yeah RyeBrye, i get that a lot |
| 09:02.11 | DarkriftX | jsherman, non working ones |
| 09:02.16 | DarkriftX | so does walmart |
| 09:02.21 | jsherman | i went to a t-mobile store today, and they said they had no demo units due to theft problems |
| 09:02.21 | romainguy | I've seen working ones |
| 09:02.24 | swetland | tmzt: so basically when we yanked the fbcon, the vt stuff stayed behind, and removing the serial debug console ended up leaving console as tty1 |
| 09:02.28 | DarkriftX | they do NOT do the g1 justice though |
| 09:02.34 | jsherman | apparently all the other phones are just dummies |
| 09:02.58 | swetland | *then* somehow nobody noticed this through a whole ton of audits, reviews, testing |
| 09:03.10 | DarkriftX | kill all the monkeys, they failed to find this bug!! |
| 09:03.13 | swetland | which is certainly rather embarrassing |
| 09:03.16 | romainguy | swetland: when I think of all the crap I got for my ViewServer :)) |
| 09:03.19 | DarkriftX | i wanted to do a wiki page about the monkeys |
| 09:03.36 | romainguy | swetland: well at least I'm sure it explains some weird behaviors that were reported :p |
| 09:03.41 | DarkriftX | G1: Monkeys Inside! |
| 09:03.46 | RyeBrye | My personal favorite part of it, though, is that you can type "reboot" while you are booting the phone :) |
| 09:04.01 | RyeBrye | or if someone texted their friend "reboot" ... :) |
| 09:04.03 | jsherman | even a big store like the SF t-mobile doesn't have live demo's? |
| 09:04.12 | romainguy | jsherman: I've seen live demos in SF |
| 09:04.14 | swetland | honestly the only thing that surprises me is it took as long as it did for somebody to notice it |
| 09:04.16 | *** join/#android BBHoss (n=bbhoss@c-68-62-170-33.hsd1.al.comcast.net) |
| 09:04.17 | jsherman | ok |
| 09:04.21 | tmzt | there was no reason to lock down init.rc on qemu tqrget, and whatever the build sytem builds (Chicago is trying on titan) |
| 09:04.24 | jsherman | so some do have them? |
| 09:04.33 | DarkriftX | RyeBrye, i can see someones face who texts their friend "reboot my computer please" and their phone reboots |
| 09:04.39 | umdk1d3 | so wait, it picks up "reboot" typed anywhere from in the phone? |
| 09:04.42 | tmzt | the yaffs2 .img,s |
| 09:04.44 | RyeBrye | only shortly after boot |
| 09:04.46 | DarkriftX | although that wouldnt work with the extra text |
| 09:04.50 | romainguy | umdk1d3: yeah |
| 09:04.57 | umdk1d3 | so if there were a bashhistory on the phone........ |
| 09:04.57 | swetland | umdk: basically *all* keys are going to a root shell on console |
| 09:05.05 | DarkriftX | lol umdk1d3! |
| 09:05.11 | DarkriftX | up enter, poof |
| 09:05.13 | swetland | no history or editing on the really trimmed down shell |
| 09:05.28 | RyeBrye | but - the fact that the keymap was messed up meant you couldn't do / 's right? |
| 09:05.32 | RyeBrye | or any special chars? |
| 09:05.36 | umdk1d3 | sooo |
| 09:05.37 | tmzt | but not translating fn keys for some reason, according to this log |
| 09:05.52 | swetland | well yeah |
| 09:05.55 | RyeBrye | right - so you couldn't do rm -rf /* or anything |
| 09:05.58 | swetland | we've never really *used* console for anything |
| 09:06.04 | swetland | it doesn't have a complete kernel keymap |
| 09:06.16 | *** join/#android cmonex (n=xy6091@sd2ve8rgkc.adsl.datanet.hu) |
| 09:06.18 | RyeBrye | I should submit a patch for you to fix that |
| 09:06.21 | ionstorm | where is the fstab file in the g1 |
| 09:06.24 | RyeBrye | ;) |
| 09:06.28 | DarkriftX | hola cmonex |
| 09:06.36 | swetland | rye: we'd probably accept it |
| 09:06.41 | poetic_folly | RyeBrye: haha... saurik was saying imagine a fake captcha on a site saying "please type rm -rf /* to verify" or something... |
| 09:06.47 | jsherman | RyeBrye, is there a page online or something that gives a description of what exactly this exploit to android |
| 09:06.49 | swetland | provided it was clean, kernel style correct, etc ^^ |
| 09:06.50 | umdk1d3 | swetland: has any of this stuff been an issue on rc30/similar devices? |
| 09:07.06 | RyeBrye | jsherman - there isn't yet - but there should be on the wiki |
| 09:07.08 | umdk1d3 | we had someone report the "reboot" issue awhile back, but we ignored it because we couldnt reproduce it |
| 09:07.18 | umdk1d3 | *for the connectbot ssh client |
| 09:07.19 | RyeBrye | "stupid user" :) |
| 09:07.27 | swetland | the console tends to get stuck eventually |
| 09:07.32 | swetland | because it is picking up *all* input |
| 09:07.37 | RyeBrye | if you type "look at my cat" |
| 09:07.46 | geist | notes the cat's out of the bag |
| 09:07.52 | RyeBrye | it would just sit in cat, right? |
| 09:07.55 | swetland | so it tends to be most reliably reproducible after a fresh boot |
| 09:08.08 | *** join/#android eleftherios (n=user@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/eleftherios) |
| 09:08.13 | swetland | rye: might need an enter before cat, but yeah there are a couple different ways it could get stuck |
| 09:08.28 | swetland | geist: there's a pretty decent writeup about the bug out there now |
| 09:08.35 | geist | ah, was wondering about that |
| 09:08.44 | geist | had fun toying with it the other day |
| 09:08.50 | jsherman | swetland, where? |
| 09:09.33 | RyeBrye | so - swetland - the other night when we were all busy pleasuring ourselves with the root shell and you mentioned you were really familiar with it... etc. - you already knew at that point what was happening? |
| 09:10.03 | swetland | rye: yup. already fixed. in the pipe for approval. |
| 09:10.22 | geist | now that it's written up i can show my cow-orkers |
| 09:10.28 | geist | and we can all have a good laugh |
| 09:10.29 | swetland | http://android.jim.sh/index.php/ConsoleShell |
| 09:10.42 | swetland | geist: may your linuxphone not make the same mistakes ours did ^^ |
| 09:10.51 | RyeBrye | so, swetland - what's the next exploit in the pipes then ;) |
| 09:11.06 | swetland | rye: we don't actually *plan* the exploits. we try to prevent them |
| 09:11.08 | geist | i done fixed that bug a few months ago, unless of course it shows up again |
| 09:11.08 | RyeBrye | Oh |
| 09:11.10 | RyeBrye | darn |
| 09:11.11 | RyeBrye | :) |
| 09:11.50 | geist | my big question is what the hell telnetd is doing there in the first place |
| 09:12.01 | swetland | honestly I think this one was waaay to easy and if you guys were good sports, you'd pick up the fix and try again after we got it right ^^ |
| 09:12.01 | jsherman | lol |
| 09:12.17 | jsherman | that is humorous |
| 09:12.35 | swetland | geist: was useful for debugging the usbethernet function driver, and somehow did not escape the "scrub unused tests / extra junk" pass |
| 09:12.37 | RyeBrye | swetland - I might :) - but only after I give myself a safety net so I can reflash after the fact :) |
| 09:12.53 | RyeBrye | (i.e I just resign the fix and apply it) |
| 09:13.07 | swetland | rye: so you have us massively outnumbered *and* you cheat. hardly sporting ^^ |
| 09:13.17 | jsherman | i guess when I read "exploit" i assumed something others could access |
| 09:13.20 | RyeBrye | massively outnumbered? |
| 09:13.22 | jsherman | why is this important |
| 09:13.22 | RyeBrye | Nah |
| 09:13.38 | RyeBrye | don't you have a googol employees working on this project? |
| 09:13.51 | swetland | having all input funnel into a rootshell is a pretty bad bug no matter how you slice it |
| 09:14.03 | tmzt | jsherman: local exploit, as in an issue with the security of a device/system |
| 09:14.11 | RyeBrye | yeah, good thing flash_image had an underscore in it :) |
| 09:14.12 | swetland | there's no known remote exploit (besides social engineering I suppose), thankfully. |
| 09:14.16 | *** join/#android lindever__ (n=eton@ppp-58-8-210-238.revip2.asianet.co.th) |
| 09:14.25 | jsherman | but it's only accessible to the owner of the device |
| 09:14.27 | geist | whispers 'tinkerbell' |
| 09:15.04 | jsherman | I guess maybe if the phone was stolen and you had it locked carefully you wouldn't want them to do that |
| 09:15.30 | RyeBrye | I'd rather have this than a TIFF exploit or something |
| 09:15.31 | swetland | jsherman: yup |
| 09:15.41 | umdk1d3 | ooh could you somehow killall the unlock screen? |
| 09:15.55 | swetland | rye: if it were a valid remote root escalation attack, I'd be far more stressed about it being discovered before a patch was deployed |
| 09:15.57 | RyeBrye | I don't think killall is installed is it? |
| 09:16.01 | tmzt | locked? they said this worked on the lockscreen, so its kind of useless |
| 09:16.20 | umdk1d3 | its a java process, but maybe there is some way of controlling dalvik processes as root? |
| 09:16.40 | RyeBrye | if killall is installed, but 'cp' isn't - there are some priorities out of wack |
| 09:16.41 | jsherman | if this were an exploit that could only be performed on a phone in an "unlocked" state (already booted fully etc), would it be considered a bug? |
| 09:16.53 | swetland | it's definitely a bug |
| 09:16.58 | swetland | accidentally type reboot |
| 09:16.59 | jsherman | yeah as it is now |
| 09:16.59 | swetland | phone reboots |
| 09:17.00 | swetland | etc |
| 09:17.05 | geist | cp is for wimps |
| 09:17.09 | umdk1d3 | woudlnt it need to be \nreboot\n though? |
| 09:17.10 | geist | cat foo > bar |
| 09:17.15 | jsherman | wait, even after it's fully booted? |
| 09:17.21 | RyeBrye | yeah |
| 09:17.38 | jsherman | er upon first reading it seemed to me one meant press the keyboard while the loading screen is showing |
| 09:17.39 | umdk1d3 | jsherman: yea we had random reports of people rebooting their boxes over ssh, and saying it would reboot their phones too |
| 09:17.40 | RyeBrye | you could leave the phone on for a few hours after booting and type in 'reboot' and hit enter and it would work |
| 09:17.46 | umdk1d3 | we passed it off as they were crazy :P |
| 09:18.02 | RyeBrye | you write back to them "sorry - it doesn't work that way" |
| 09:18.23 | spikebike | they are crazy... just sometimes they are right as well |
| 09:18.29 | umdk1d3 | hmkay so im interested in this now--killing the lock screen |
| 09:18.29 | jsherman | oh |
| 09:18.54 | umdk1d3 | adb somehow kills processes when it uninstalls those packages |
| 09:19.02 | swetland | so, yes, it is definitely a bug. it is a local root exploit which could lead to extraction of private data if you obtained somebody's phone, etc |
| 09:19.07 | jsherman | how do the events get to the console, doesn't the android process have the key input |
| 09:19.08 | umdk1d3 | but i dont think we could uninstall the unlock screen because its part of the core system |
| 09:19.31 | RyeBrye | Did you guys play around with having the home screen take 'shaking' as an input to change between screens and stuff? |
| 09:19.56 | swetland | rye: dunno |
| 09:20.07 | RyeBrye | I'll have to ask romainguy about it later |
| 09:20.23 | RyeBrye | It'd be a cool "party mode" settin to turn on to wow your friends |
| 09:20.31 | swetland | yeah, anything much above init/libc is all fluffy apps code in my book ^^ |
| 09:20.38 | RyeBrye | :) |
| 09:21.02 | geist | wasteful pixel pushers |
| 09:21.13 | swetland | geist: indeed. |
| 09:21.31 | *** join/#android ALoGeNo (n=QUAKEIII@26.Red-81-35-167.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 09:22.33 | tmzt | does every init process need /dev/console, I know bash will panic if started interactively as init |
| 09:22.36 | tmzt | ? |
| 09:22.49 | RyeBrye | I will say... I don't like how all your code seems to avoid strcpy, gets, scanf, etc... |
| 09:22.53 | swetland | init doesn't need /dev/console at all |
| 09:23.03 | RyeBrye | :) |
| 09:23.06 | swetland | (well, ours doesn't -- maybe other inits do) |
| 09:23.18 | geist | well, where does it's output go otherwise? |
| 09:23.29 | swetland | rye: the security team is mean and yells at us a lot |
| 09:23.29 | geist | /dev/null i guess, but you need to push the bits somewhere |
| 09:23.30 | tmzt | and zygote is on /dev/input/eventX ? |
| 09:23.38 | swetland | geist: kernel log |
| 09:24.08 | geist | you dont have enormous server spew on console? |
| 09:24.14 | geist | grumbls |
| 09:24.27 | swetland | geist: no, everything spews to the log driver |
| 09:24.37 | tmzt | dont really have console, at least output |
| 09:24.52 | swetland | geist: don't worry, our userspace people are probably as horrible as yours (or more so) about log spew |
| 09:24.54 | RyeBrye | swetland - you guy should talk T-mobile into selling a Developer update track or something for existing phones - all they would need to do is send an SDCard update file to people and give them root... - would require no new hardware |
| 09:25.02 | geist | yeah |
| 09:25.06 | RyeBrye | They could even sell it for $50 or something |
| 09:25.11 | geist | it's a constant barrage of noise |
| 09:25.16 | swetland | rye: it is an idea that has been kicked around (well not making it for-pay) |
| 09:25.23 | jsherman | yeah |
| 09:25.27 | RyeBrye | making it pay would be bad |
| 09:25.28 | spikebike | rye that would be awesome |
| 09:25.32 | swetland | rye: it's a *tricky* idea to socialize to the carriers |
| 09:25.33 | tmzt | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:25.40 | jsherman | google should just find a way to give them away for free |
| 09:25.46 | DarkriftX | RyeBrye, if you build his images and they work, lemme know, ill upload them to my hosting |
| 09:25.49 | RyeBrye | but - T-mobile would be like "Oh, we charge for AIM messages as if they were SMS..." |
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| 09:25.56 | geist | google should also provide ponies |
| 09:25.58 | jsherman | something like the contest |
| 09:26.09 | jsherman | haha, no obviously i mean in a way that is to their benefit |
| 09:26.18 | jsherman | not to just anyone |
| 09:26.23 | swetland | ponies make users happy |
| 09:26.25 | RyeBrye | I don't think google CAN give away developer upgrades for these phones - since Google doesn't seem to hold the OTA update key |
| 09:26.27 | swetland | happy users search more |
| 09:26.30 | swetland | everyone wins |
| 09:26.31 | geist | mmm, special ponies |
| 09:26.31 | RyeBrye | it's signed by HTC iirc |
| 09:26.38 | geist | players club ponies |
| 09:26.47 | umdk1d3 | RyeBrye: that might be the bootloader only? |
| 09:26.48 | RyeBrye | Oh, I hacked mine to send all the searches through ask.com - ;) |
| 09:27.02 | swetland | rye: hacking your pony is *mean* and possibly *unamerican* |
| 09:27.11 | RyeBrye | true |
| 09:27.14 | tmzt | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:27.15 | geist | *frumple* |
| 09:27.17 | RyeBrye | I turned it into a donkey though |
| 09:27.46 | DarkriftX | readies himself for the last smoke before sleep |
| 09:27.47 | DarkriftX | gn all |
| 09:27.56 | jsherman | haha ok maybe it was a stupid idea, but it seems like a bunch of phones to encourage app dev is cheaper than the prizes for the ADC |
| 09:27.56 | RyeBrye | umdk1d3 - I think the cert.sf that signs the OTA updates is HTC's |
| 09:28.02 | spikebike | ryebrye but for now we can change the ota update key |
| 09:28.10 | RyeBrye | Right |
| 09:28.32 | RyeBrye | but... the earlier idea about having a Dev firmware update - Google would have to push the people who hold that key to do it if they wanted an official channel to do it |
| 09:29.01 | spikebike | well does a update from SD require the OTA key? |
| 09:29.09 | spikebike | hrm, I'm guessing it would |
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| 09:29.13 | RyeBrye | yes, it must be signed |
| 09:29.24 | RyeBrye | the keys it looks for get compiled in |
| 09:29.31 | RyeBrye | but - you can flash that so you can sign your own updates |
| 09:29.37 | RyeBrye | and only your updates can be signed then... etc |
| 09:29.44 | RyeBrye | must sleep now |
| 09:29.49 | swetland | rye: that solves the problem of the recovery program leaving them on the coffee table or losing them in the couch |
| 09:29.49 | spikebike | as well |
| 09:30.07 | swetland | 'night people |
| 09:30.12 | spikebike | night |
| 09:30.16 | RyeBrye | s/sleep/go to bed/ |
| 09:30.28 | RyeBrye | s/go to bed/play with infobot/ |
| 09:30.32 | RyeBrye | 'night |
| 09:30.43 | RyeBrye | kicks infobot |
| 09:30.49 | RyeBrye | you there? |
| 09:30.53 | RyeBrye | s/there/stupid/ |
| 09:31.09 | RyeBrye | Ah, cheap thrills... thanks infobot |
| 09:32.09 | RyeBrye | just got swetlands joke about the keys. then realizes he's really tired. |
| 09:32.47 | swetland | it was a really bad joke |
| 09:32.55 | RyeBrye | I appreciated it |
| 09:33.04 | RyeBrye | s/appreciated it/infobot is stupid ha ha ha/ |
| 09:33.35 | swetland | <mrw> groobot: don't crash. |
| 09:33.35 | swetland | *** Signoff: Groobot (EOF From client) |
| 09:33.36 | swetland | <mrw> he can't follow instructions yet. |
| 09:33.43 | RyeBrye | :) |
| 09:34.25 | umdk1d3 | (who owns infobot?) |
| 09:34.30 | RyeBrye | Tim somebody |
| 09:34.43 | umdk1d3 | dislikes bots |
| 09:34.46 | RyeBrye | infobot: who are you? |
| 09:34.47 | infobot | RyeBrye: what are you talking about? |
| 09:34.51 | languish | shouldn't even need to issue a separate dev version, just a slightly harder to enable option in the settings to average users don't mess with it accidentally |
| 09:35.07 | languish | to/so |
| 09:35.08 | RyeBrye | true |
| 09:35.44 | languish | all it really is a a chown/chmod mode fux |
| 09:36.00 | RyeBrye | or... mounting /data without nosuid would work for me |
| 09:36.15 | languish | yeah, quite a few ways to do it |
| 09:36.29 | languish | all pretty easy to add as a setting |
| 09:36.48 | RyeBrye | Yes, lets write a patch for our fork of android ;) |
| 09:36.54 | *** join/#android eton (n=eton@ppp-58-8-4-21.revip2.asianet.co.th) |
| 09:36.59 | RyeBrye | infobot: you want to write that? |
| 09:37.01 | languish | heck even if you want to track devs, add it as a uniquely signed key to enable the setting activated by an assigned dev code |
| 09:37.06 | tmzt | RyeBrye: data can be ext2? |
| 09:37.19 | RyeBrye | ? no - /data is yaffs2 |
| 09:37.50 | tmzt | oh, not sd card |
| 09:38.12 | RyeBrye | infobot: why are you so slow? |
| 09:38.12 | infobot | why not? |
| 09:38.26 | swetland | you couldn't put a generic fs on /data without some kinda of block translation layer |
| 09:38.41 | tmzt | right |
| 09:38.51 | swetland | you could use ext2/3/etc on the sdcard if you built it into the kernel (might want to tweak the automounter to try mounting that too) |
| 09:39.00 | tmzt | avoid tffs good |
| 09:39.13 | jsherman | how can ext2/3 use an mtd |
| 09:39.30 | tmzt | with ftl |
| 09:39.31 | RyeBrye | I was going to use reiserfs - but my wife has to use the phone on occasion |
| 09:40.00 | RyeBrye | infobot: you are good for cheap thrills |
| 09:40.00 | infobot | I think you lost me on that one, RyeBrye |
| 09:40.13 | RyeBrye | s/cheap thrills/mild amusement/ |
| 09:40.35 | languish | oh wow.. |
| 09:40.37 | languish | "De la Vega said AT&T continues to look at Google's Android operating system but is not prepared to make any moves to carry any Android phones. He said the platform is still evolving and needs to open up even more to offer a wider array of non-Google applications." |
| 09:40.47 | RyeBrye | WTF? |
| 09:40.52 | languish | now there's someone that doesn't get Android |
| 09:40.59 | tmzt | I just don't get how loop (block layer) also supports yaffs2 |
| 09:41.23 | languish | and that was AT&T's CEO |
| 09:41.40 | RyeBrye | "yeah, it needs to open up more. They should follow Apple's example in that regard. I'd send them documentation on how to do it, but Apple made me sign an NDA about it." |
| 09:43.03 | muthu | infobot: what's up? |
| 09:43.04 | infobot | Up is the direction away from the central point of gravity. |
| 09:43.10 | languish | then again, if he's making statements like that, either he's willfully trying to play andoroid down by spreading misinformation, or Google needs to do a better job of educating carrier CEO'ds |
| 09:43.29 | languish | infobot: Who should win the world series? |
| 09:43.47 | muthu | infobot: you dig android? |
| 09:43.49 | RyeBrye | he's looking it up |
| 09:43.53 | RyeBrye | infobot: you like inquieries? |
| 09:44.00 | RyeBrye | infobot: can you pick up my dry cleaning? |
| 09:44.09 | muthu | infobot: lol |
| 09:44.09 | infobot | [lol] stands for Laughing Out Loud. It is grammatically incorrect to use LOL in the first person; use 'heh' or 'haha' instead. If you want to use LOL, do '/me lol' instead. |
| 09:44.23 | languish | infobot: What team should win the world series? |
| 09:44.31 | languish | :( |
| 09:44.37 | *** join/#android ALoGeNo (n=QUAKEIII@48.Red-88-23-200.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 09:44.41 | muthu | infobot: obama |
| 09:44.41 | infobot | i heard obama is "the better choice at this point." |
| 09:44.54 | languish | infobot: Android |
| 09:44.54 | infobot | i guess android is an Open Handset Alliance Project by Google or an alleged Open Source phone software stack that's really not open. http://code.google.com/android/, or if it's sometime actually freed, someone might port it on the neo, but the provided binaries are incompatible |
| 09:44.55 | RyeBrye | s/infobot/your mom/ |
| 09:45.06 | umdk1d3 | infobot: pebkac |
| 09:45.07 | infobot | PEBKAC: Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair. |
| 09:45.13 | umdk1d3 | infobot: omgwtfbbq |
| 09:45.14 | infobot | omgwtfbbq is, like, Oh man guys, where's the freakin' barbeque? |
| 09:45.19 | muthu | infobot: haha |
| 09:45.20 | infobot | I call that haha |
| 09:45.22 | RyeBrye | infobot: EBCDIC |
| 09:45.24 | *** join/#android jreznik (n=jreznik@nat/redhat/x-28a57f5b9e27bbd9) |
| 09:45.30 | umdk1d3 | stumped him! =D |
| 09:45.48 | muthu | infobot: abcd |
| 09:45.49 | infobot | The ABCD tones are used in the U.S. military telephone network (AutoVon) amongst other things. A - Flash, B - Flash override priority, C - Priority communication, D - Priority override |
| 09:45.55 | RyeBrye | bed |
| 09:46.17 | RyeBrye | infobot: bedtime |
| 09:46.18 | infobot | well, bedtime is set to be 9:46:18 ryebrye so get to bed! |
| 09:46.18 | muthu | infobot: is nice |
| 09:46.24 | umdk1d3 | infobot: testtesttesttest |
| 09:46.36 | languish | icles |
| 09:46.39 | muthu | infobot: iphone |
| 09:46.40 | infobot | iSmoke, b*tch! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qg1ckCkm8YI |
| 09:46.57 | umdk1d3 | infobot: android |
| 09:46.58 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, android is an Open Handset Alliance Project by Google or an alleged Open Source phone software stack that's really not open. http://code.google.com/android/, or if it's sometime actually freed, someone might port it on the neo, but the provided binaries are incompatible |
| 09:47.10 | umdk1d3 | =O misinformation |
| 09:47.24 | muthu | infobot: bush |
| 09:47.24 | infobot | ooooh Bush me no likey bring on the tile baby... wanna borrow my razor.... |
| 09:47.33 | umdk1d3 | infobot: infobot |
| 09:47.34 | infobot | umdk1d3, I love abuse, feed me!, or an interactive bot that can learn all sorts of information (http://www.infobot.org/), or updated sources at http://infobot.sf.net/ |
| 09:48.17 | muthu | infobot: maven |
| 09:48.18 | infobot | i heard maven is a project build tool at http://maven.apache.org |
| 09:48.34 | muthu | infobot: tobofni |
| 09:48.56 | umdk1d3 | interesting |
| 09:48.59 | muthu | infobot: muthu |
| 09:49.02 | umdk1d3 | infobot: TWAIN |
| 09:49.03 | infobot | from memory, twain is (Toolkit Without An Interesting Name) This is a standard set for scanners to allow them to have a standard interface to software. This allows the use of your favorite graphics package with your favorite scanner without worrying if one will support the other. As long as both are TWAIN-complaint they will work together. Check out www.twain.org for much more information. |
| 09:49.16 | muthu | infobot: umdk1d3 |
| 09:49.16 | umdk1d3 | i never knew thats what twain stood for |
| 09:49.20 | muthu | haha |
| 09:51.10 | tmzt | that's not right |
| 09:51.27 | languish | infobot: OMFUG |
| 09:51.35 | languish | :( |
| 09:51.39 | tmzt | and if I knew I have now forgotten |
| 09:56.24 | tmzt | how can the world's information be organized if it is forgotten? |
| 09:57.05 | tmzt | it never stood for anything? the wikimedia fnd and the linked artucle says |
| 09:57.05 | languish | the internet doesn't forget |
| 09:58.36 | andatche | you can clear the data for the preinstalled apps from settings... is there anyway to do this for apps from the market without uninstalling them? |
| 09:58.53 | *** part/#android MIR100 (n=MIR100@24-148-89-37.frg-bsr1.chi-frg.il.cable.rcn.com) |
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| 10:01.25 | zodttd | infobot; zodttd |
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| 10:21.39 | rreck | got one and im g33ked |
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| 11:01.21 | cmonex | hmm, ok, it looks like my irc client was offline for a couple of hours.. so google submitted patch for the root hack yes? solving flash_image problem then? =P |
| 11:01.33 | cmonex | i wonder how fast that patch will be out on the phones |
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| 11:36.57 | Dialekt | WEAK. |
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| 12:01.25 | tauno | "for example change the standard white background image to a "Hello Kitty" background image" <--who wrote this line to the docs? That's exactly what I wanted to do :P |
| 12:09.43 | rreck | cmonex: can they force you to update? |
| 12:10.04 | Damm | yay, i crashed com.android.phone again. |
| 12:10.25 | Damm | smtp server got backed up, and it took 8hours to get 48 text messages at once |
| 12:10.36 | Damm | lemme tell you it hated that. |
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| 12:13.42 | bloo | so i suspect my program is having the same problems as the built in alarm does |
| 12:13.43 | bloo | :( |
| 12:14.09 | cmonex | rreck: no, but i'm thinking of people who didn't buy one yet. |
| 12:14.28 | cmonex | (such as myself... will soon get my hands on one, but who knows if it will already be patched up) |
| 12:15.03 | cmonex | rreck: when i said "no", i meant oyu can always prevent it even if they try to force you |
| 12:15.43 | cmonex | i would imagine an easy way to prevent is if your custom recovery doesn't accept anything not signed by your own key :shrug: |
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| 12:20.26 | bloo | i think i have the same problem that the built in alarm does grrrrrr |
| 12:20.28 | bloo | stupid wakelocks |
| 12:22.21 | *** join/#android eton (n=eton@ppp-58-8-10-88.revip2.asianet.co.th) |
| 12:28.19 | rreck | does anyone think a phone case with a magnet can hurt the phone at all? |
| 12:28.33 | Laz | probably the compass |
| 12:28.38 | languish | rreck it messes with the compass, that's all |
| 12:29.02 | rreck | but if i take it OUT of the case it should be ok |
| 12:29.03 | bloo | does anyone use quicksilver? |
| 12:29.06 | rreck | and work |
| 12:29.11 | Laz | no |
| 12:29.23 | Laz | you broke it |
| 12:29.25 | bloo | or one of those app launchers wher eyou hit a hotkey and type some text and it brings up stuff |
| 12:29.26 | rreck | wouldnt be permenant right ? |
| 12:29.47 | languish | rreck, you have to reorient the compass, which means waving the phone around like a nutcase for a few minutes in figure 8's at different angles |
| 12:30.31 | languish | if you don't use an app that uses the compass, you don't have to bother |
| 12:32.24 | *** join/#android taviso (n=taviso@74.125.121.33) |
| 12:32.36 | bloo | just took the screen protector off my phone |
| 12:32.43 | bloo | which means today will be the first time i drop it :( |
| 12:33.44 | rreck | i bet the gps uses the compass, do you think? |
| 12:34.16 | rreck | ok maybe the magnet closure case is a bad idea |
| 12:34.25 | rreck | i need a case now too |
| 12:34.47 | rreck | if i install telnetd cant every idiot in the world get in? |
| 12:35.57 | rreck | what is the difference between class 2 SDHC and class 4? |
| 12:36.23 | bloo | youre on a google related chatroom, google it :) |
| 12:37.16 | *** join/#android shackan (n=frob@host117-143-dynamic.1-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 12:37.18 | rreck | transfer rate, ok sorry |
| 12:37.30 | tauno | anyone from the US currently awake? can you confirm that G1 direct socket connections work on T-mobile? (j2me problem.. some us carriers block socket access and only allow to use http apn..) |
| 12:38.08 | bloo | tauno, how can i easily check |
| 12:38.08 | rreck | tauno: how would i check that? |
| 12:38.33 | tauno | ...that's the hard question :) |
| 12:39.10 | ali1234 | what is a "direct socket connection"? |
| 12:39.19 | bloo | socketconnection to an arbitrary port? |
| 12:39.39 | languish | i think he just means are they filtering ports |
| 12:39.41 | ali1234 | so, as opposed to a transparent proxy? or what? |
| 12:40.26 | tauno | I mean does Socket.connect(..) work |
| 12:40.43 | languish | tauno from the device or to the device |
| 12:41.06 | tauno | from device |
| 12:41.59 | tauno | to another porst than 80 :) |
| 12:42.18 | bloo | cool might be releasing my third market program |
| 12:42.26 | bloo | i fear this one is gonna get reallllly panned |
| 12:42.33 | languish | well, outbound ssh on non port 80 worked |
| 12:42.35 | bloo | cause im probably the only one who will find use |
| 12:42.36 | tauno | I heard that some operators APNs filter everything that's not http (eg port 80 etc) |
| 12:42.57 | languish | tauno, no we do have other ports open/available |
| 12:43.26 | languish | I don't know if it's only a standard set such as ftp(21), 8080, ..etc |
| 12:43.36 | languish | or if it's a wide range |
| 12:43.57 | languish | but we're not limited to only port 80 |
| 12:44.01 | swetland | I haven't checked exhaustively, but I believe outbound is unfiltered |
| 12:44.02 | ali1234 | tauno: in the UK they (tmobile) filter out certain ports and leave all others - FTP, IRC, MSN, and most other chat programs are blocked. |
| 12:44.11 | tauno | I need to have acess to >9000 range.. that's why I'm asking |
| 12:44.18 | languish | i think they may filter outbound port 25 |
| 12:44.19 | ali1234 | tauno: however for a bit more you can have an unfiltered package |
| 12:44.34 | languish | filter, not block |
| 12:44.38 | languish | have some ruleset on it |
| 12:49.56 | tauno | thanks! |
| 12:52.48 | *** join/#android eton_ (n=eton@ppp-58-8-4-219.revip2.asianet.co.th) |
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| 13:16.57 | *** join/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@216.173.163.214) |
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| 13:33.09 | *** join/#android licksjp (n=hana@cap013-014.kcn.ne.jp) |
| 13:33.17 | licksjp | hello |
| 13:33.56 | bloo | hi |
| 13:34.36 | licksjp | bloo, I am Japanese |
| 13:34.37 | thoraxe | hi |
| 13:34.38 | *** part/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@216.173.163.214) |
| 13:34.58 | thoraxe | マジ？ |
| 13:35.01 | licksjp | I am first contact in this channel |
| 13:35.06 | *** join/#android jbq_ (n=jbq@72.14.224.1) |
| 13:35.11 | licksjp | Japanese ok? |
| 13:35.20 | vol | would prefer english |
| 13:35.44 | thoraxe | ok for me but my japanese is very bad :P |
| 13:36.23 | licksjp | I had been to kansai open source 2008 in osaka,japan |
| 13:36.31 | licksjp | today |
| 13:36.56 | licksjp | and i had found andoroid booth today |
| 13:37.02 | *** join/#android tmarble (n=tmarble@user-38q4e4l.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 13:39.38 | licksjp | yorosiku m(_ _)m |
| 13:39.54 | thoraxe | licksjp: was there any information about japanese device with android? |
| 13:41.24 | licksjp | there aren't Japandevice it |
| 13:41.45 | licksjp | but I try to develop the emulater,i think |
| 13:42.07 | *** join/#android AstainZZZZZZ (n=AstainHe@unaffiliated/astainhellbring) |
| 13:42.42 | thoraxe | I know that the T-Mobile G1 (android device in USA) can display japanese characters in emails and on websites |
| 13:43.06 | Hiro2 | thoraxe, can you tell me more about that? |
| 13:43.16 | Hiro2 | I want to have it be able to display japanese characters |
| 13:43.26 | Hiro2 | oh and btw, anybody know a good screen protector for G1? |
| 13:43.40 | thoraxe | Hiro2: a friend in japan sent an email in japanese to me, and the kanji/kana all displayed properly |
| 13:43.49 | thoraxe | Hiro2: i do not think you can WRITE japanese yet, only display |
| 13:44.05 | Hiro2 | thoraxe: e-mail to your gmail? |
| 13:44.27 | thoraxe | yes to gmail |
| 13:44.35 | thoraxe | i have not tested in the regular e-mail app yet |
| 13:44.45 | thoraxe | i'm opening http://auctions.yahoo.co.jp now in the browser |
| 13:44.51 | Hiro2 | thoraxe: i see, i wish someone can write an app so we could write japanese |
| 13:45.06 | thoraxe | Hiro2: it would probably be easier to port something existing |
| 13:45.15 | thoraxe | like take SCIM from Linux and port it for android |
| 13:45.20 | thoraxe | but that would still probably be very difficult |
| 13:45.40 | *** join/#android bojangles (n=bojangle@163.sub-70-194-191.myvzw.com) |
| 13:45.45 | thoraxe | most input editors i have used also require you to write in romaji and then convert to kanji/kana |
| 13:45.53 | licksjp | I try to make develop enviroment in my PC |
| 13:46.25 | Hiro2 | thoraxe: plus since it's to a limited audience, im sure not many will like to develop an app huh? |
| 13:46.29 | licksjp | later |
| 13:46.58 | thoraxe | Hiro2: it's especially limited because right now you're only dealing with an audience of japanese-literates in the USA who would use it with any frequency |
| 13:47.07 | thoraxe | Hiro2: but i don't think there is anything for blackberry or iphone either |
| 13:48.03 | Hiro2 | thoraxe: are you japanese? |
| 13:48.22 | *** join/#android SjB (n=steve@nexus.wireless.uwo.ca) |
| 13:48.46 | thoraxe | Hiro2: no, i'm american. i studied japanese for 2.5 years at Columbia University and then I spent 6 weeks at 国際ã‚Âリスト教大å¦ for a summer program |
| 13:49.01 | thoraxe | and i've stayed in touch with japanese friends when i can by email and IM and stuff |
| 13:49.18 | *** join/#android hak7 (n=hak7@c-98-224-254-150.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) |
| 13:49.38 | thoraxe | now i'm in Atlanta and the japanese population is not so big, and i've lost touch with some of my friends, so it's kinda hard to keep up my skill |
| 13:49.42 | thoraxe | :( |
| 13:49.42 | Hiro2 | i see |
| 13:49.51 | Hiro2 | haha |
| 13:49.54 | Hiro2 | i see what you mean |
| 13:50.18 | *** join/#android mpagano (n=mpagano@pool-71-172-59-7.nwrknj.east.verizon.net) |
| 13:52.07 | bloo | i think everyone should just speak in numbers! |
| 13:52.42 | thoraxe | bloo: that would be difficult. english seems to work OK as the universal language so far. I wonder if we will see something firefly-esque in the future though with the chinese population being so large |
| 13:54.05 | muthu | bloo: numbers, in which language? ;) |
| 13:57.04 | *** part/#android hak7 (n=hak7@c-98-224-254-150.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) |
| 13:57.19 | *** join/#android plusminus_ (i=81020c44@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-d05511acf79ce5d1) |
| 13:57.19 | *** join/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@wg-d232118.dsl.fsu.edu) |
| 13:57.24 | thoraxe | Hiro2: the browser on my G1 will not open www.google.co.jp or auctions.yahoo.co.jp - it just stalls |
| 13:57.34 | thoraxe | i'll try to find a non .co.jp site that has japanese |
| 13:58.02 | Hiro2 | thoraxe: let me try, but www.yahoo.co.jp worked for me |
| 13:58.21 | thoraxe | Hiro2: www.silkroad-jp.com didnt' work either. i'll try yahoo |
| 13:58.27 | thoraxe | Hiro2: are you using a G1 device? |
| 13:58.48 | Hiro2 | thoraxe: yes |
| 13:58.57 | thoraxe | Hiro2: hmm |
| 13:58.58 | Hiro2 | thoraxe: actuion works also |
| 13:59.07 | thoraxe | weird... mine will load the first little bit and then stall |
| 13:59.12 | *** join/#android michaelnovakjr (n=chatzill@204.141.14.170) |
| 13:59.21 | Hiro2 | thoraxe: hmm |
| 13:59.29 | thoraxe | Hiro2: has your device been updated? |
| 13:59.32 | Hiro2 | thoraxe: well, i gtg work. hopefully someone will invenst irc for g1? |
| 13:59.37 | thoraxe | i just got a replacement yesterday |
| 13:59.41 | michaelnovakjr | Hiro2: hm |
| 13:59.42 | thoraxe | ok ttyl |
| 13:59.47 | Hiro2 | thoraxe: i got mine few days ago |
| 13:59.48 | michaelnovakjr | IRC not going to work natively |
| 13:59.56 | michaelnovakjr | at least at the moment |
| 13:59.59 | Hiro2 | ic |
| 14:00.03 | thoraxe | you can use irc via connectbot |
| 14:00.04 | michaelnovakjr | need ident |
| 14:00.08 | thoraxe | ssh into a server and then run irc |
| 14:00.13 | michaelnovakjr | can't listen on port 113 |
| 14:00.14 | thoraxe | michaelnovakjr: you can't irc without ident? |
| 14:00.17 | bloo | the markey is soooo buggy |
| 14:00.20 | bloo | market |
| 14:00.20 | michaelnovakjr | not freenode at least |
| 14:00.27 | michaelnovakjr | freenode requires ident |
| 14:00.28 | bloo | i cant belive google released this |
| 14:00.45 | michaelnovakjr | i was working on an IRC client |
| 14:00.58 | thoraxe | i'm on R19 still... is there a way to force an update request? |
| 14:01.05 | michaelnovakjr | i put it on hold.... if they give apps access to ports < 1024 i'll continue it |
| 14:01.19 | thoraxe | michaelnovakjr: couldn't you write some weird local proxy? |
| 14:01.23 | thoraxe | no, never mind |
| 14:01.25 | thoraxe | that would require access |
| 14:01.28 | thoraxe | hehe |
| 14:01.31 | bloo | novak, its probably a root access issue? |
| 14:01.43 | thoraxe | michaelnovakjr: if you have no access to <1024 how does connectbot work? |
| 14:01.48 | michaelnovakjr | bloo, userspace doesn;t have access to ports < 1024 |
| 14:01.49 | incandenza | somehow I'm on freenode without ident |
| 14:01.51 | bloo | thor: for listening |
| 14:01.58 | michaelnovakjr | thoraxe: because it doesn't listen |
| 14:02.04 | thoraxe | oh ok, outgoing is fine? |
| 14:02.07 | michaelnovakjr | yes |
| 14:02.09 | *** join/#android Amitava (n=UserNick@c-71-57-168-55.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 14:02.14 | michaelnovakjr | its listening for incoming connections |
| 14:02.17 | thoraxe | i am behind a firewall and i don't believe i have 113 open |
| 14:02.18 | michaelnovakjr | that is the issue |
| 14:02.23 | thoraxe | and i am connected to freenode |
| 14:02.35 | thoraxe | how can i check if ident is working? |
| 14:02.51 | michaelnovakjr | are you on windows or linux |
| 14:02.55 | bloo | maybe the router handles it? |
| 14:02.58 | thoraxe | michaelnovakjr: irssi on linux |
| 14:03.07 | thoraxe | bloo: why would the router "handle" traffic on a port that is closed? |
| 14:03.08 | *** join/#android AstainHellbring1 (n=AstainHe@unaffiliated/astainhellbring) |
| 14:03.16 | michaelnovakjr | block port 113 on your box and try to connect |
| 14:03.31 | incandenza | 13:08 [freenode] [irc.freenode.net]: *** No identd (auth) response |
| 14:03.34 | thoraxe | michaelnovakjr: it's blocked on my firewall too. |
| 14:03.41 | incandenza | still let me connect |
| 14:03.42 | thoraxe | michaelnovakjr: i don't have 113 open on iptables on this box |
| 14:03.43 | michaelnovakjr | incandenza: yes, that is the message you get |
| 14:03.53 | bloo | shrug, im not a netowkring guy ill keep quiet |
| 14:04.12 | michaelnovakjr | incandenza: what client are you using? |
| 14:04.22 | incandenza | irssi |
| 14:04.27 | michaelnovakjr | hm |
| 14:04.49 | thoraxe | 05:54 [freenode] !irc.freenode.net *** No identd (auth) response <-- ditto |
| 14:04.57 | *** join/#android laz66 (n=elld@28.184.119.70.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 14:05.33 | *** join/#android laz66 (n=elld@28.184.119.70.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 14:05.37 | michaelnovakjr | hm, i wonder if it fails over to another port |
| 14:05.41 | *** part/#android laz66 (n=elld@28.184.119.70.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 14:06.17 | incandenza | maybe it's a difference between getting a RST and getting no response at all |
| 14:06.42 | thoraxe | michaelnovakjr: i think it must allow no ident |
| 14:06.55 | michaelnovakjr | i've tried and it times out |
| 14:06.58 | thoraxe | michaelnovakjr: because how would it find another port, and wouldn't it then say that it did get an ident response once it did? |
| 14:07.28 | michaelnovakjr | not really sure, all i know is i'm getting timed out |
| 14:07.49 | thoraxe | perhaps it's for another reason? |
| 14:08.15 | michaelnovakjr | it says time out because of no ident response |
| 14:09.58 | *** join/#android joelone (n=joel@host-208-68-238-61.biznesshosting.net) |
| 14:10.48 | Damm | thoraxe, try a different port. |
| 14:10.49 | *** join/#android laz66 (n=elld@28.184.119.70.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 14:11.02 | Damm | 6667 is an awkward port anymore. |
| 14:11.42 | michaelnovakjr | Damm, i'm working on IRC, but getting timed out when it can't get an ident response |
| 14:12.01 | *** join/#android shackan (n=frob@host159-141-dynamic.3-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 14:13.03 | languish | michaelnovakjr, try disabling your ident completely on the client |
| 14:13.03 | languish | *identd |
| 14:13.13 | languish | it may be returning a malformed response so the server's waiting for a proper one |
| 14:13.16 | languish | ? |
| 14:13.21 | michaelnovakjr | languish: its my G1 :) |
| 14:13.27 | languish | i know |
| 14:13.32 | michaelnovakjr | i can't bind the port because its not allowed |
| 14:13.34 | languish | but you're using your own client |
| 14:13.38 | michaelnovakjr | yes |
| 14:13.50 | michaelnovakjr | but i can't even listen on the port because the permissions don't allow it |
| 14:14.28 | languish | michaelnovakjr, connect your g1 to wifi, then scan or telnet to tcp 113 on your g1's ip |
| 14:14.36 | languish | see if it is blocked, times out, or what |
| 14:14.51 | michaelnovakjr | languish: i have confirmed with Google, my application cannot access port 113 |
| 14:14.57 | languish | i understand |
| 14:15.03 | *** join/#android VickiWong (n=denvar@p5B053BE6.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:15.15 | michaelnovakjr | so it shouldn't matter because i can't send a response through 113 |
| 14:15.22 | languish | maybe 113 is returning *something* on your g1 |
| 14:15.29 | bloo | yeah |
| 14:15.36 | michaelnovakjr | ah |
| 14:15.39 | bloo | maybe identd is running? |
| 14:15.42 | languish | so the server is waiting for a proper response |
| 14:15.52 | languish | and not getting it, so timing out |
| 14:15.55 | Chainfire | i dont think identd is included, bloo |
| 14:16.12 | Chainfire | though if you rooted your G1 you can probably install it :) |
| 14:16.23 | simond | has anyone gotten the wifi to work with the FreeRunner? |
| 14:16.24 | languish | it's just something to check, based on trhe behaviour you described |
| 14:16.31 | *** part/#android laz66 (n=elld@28.184.119.70.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 14:16.41 | bloo | whats freerunner |
| 14:16.45 | *** join/#android laz66 (n=elld@28.184.119.70.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 14:16.52 | incandenza | tried telnetting to 113 on the G1. just got a normal RST (connection refused) |
| 14:17.06 | simond | bloo: the OpenMoko.org FreeRunner |
| 14:17.21 | languish | incandenza, nod.. the point is to see what michaelnovakjr's getting :) |
| 14:17.22 | incandenza | but maybe the difference is, most routers silently drop the connection attempt without a RST (not sure if most routers do that or not) |
| 14:17.47 | languish | michaelnovakjr, also, are you connecting via 3g or ? |
| 14:17.55 | incandenza | languish: ah... you apparently think he has a magic G1 which works completely differently? :) |
| 14:18.02 | michaelnovakjr | :) |
| 14:18.18 | Chainfire | damn, my G1 still hasn't arrived |
| 14:18.20 | michaelnovakjr | languish: i have attempted this on wifi |
| 14:18.20 | languish | incandenza, i think the server may be getting *something* that's causing it to wait for a response. |
| 14:18.24 | languish | so why not check |
| 14:18.34 | Chainfire | ill be so pissed off if I cant root it before its updated with patch :/ |
| 14:18.50 | languish | michaelnovakjr, ah.. and is port 113 on yuur wifi router already forwarded to another machine? |
| 14:18.55 | michaelnovakjr | no |
| 14:19.11 | languish | and it IS forwarded to your g1's ip? |
| 14:19.22 | michaelnovakjr | yes |
| 14:19.25 | languish | hmm |
| 14:19.34 | languish | try not forwarding it to the g1 |
| 14:19.41 | michaelnovakjr | did that too :) |
| 14:19.41 | *** join/#android aquarist_2006 (n=aquarist@host-208-68-238-61.biznesshosting.net) |
| 14:19.42 | languish | kill the forward then trt connecting |
| 14:19.46 | languish | same thing? |
| 14:19.46 | michaelnovakjr | i can't bind the port |
| 14:19.49 | languish | i know |
| 14:19.53 | michaelnovakjr | it won't get any response |
| 14:19.57 | languish | i'm not saying to bind the port |
| 14:20.22 | bloo | root my tooter |
| 14:20.22 | incandenza | I assume you can connect to IRC through this connection on a normal PC? what do you see about ident when you connect? |
| 14:20.28 | languish | you're saying you can't *get on* freenet because it's getting a timed out ident? |
| 14:20.35 | michaelnovakjr | incandenza: it works |
| 14:20.43 | michaelnovakjr | languish: yes |
| 14:20.51 | languish | because I'm on freenet now with no identd |
| 14:20.54 | incandenza | michaelnovakjr: but in the server messages, what does it say about ident? |
| 14:21.08 | michaelnovakjr | no response |
| 14:21.39 | michaelnovakjr | telnet returns connection refused |
| 14:22.06 | *** join/#android fleeting_ (n=fleeting@rrcs-24-173-30-178.sw.biz.rr.com) |
| 14:22.18 | incandenza | if 113 is not getting past your router, I don't see how it can be distinguishing between your PC and the G1. maybe the problem is something else |
| 14:22.38 | michaelnovakjr | the connection is refused.... |
| 14:23.05 | bloo | novak, try running the irc client on your pc? |
| 14:23.14 | michaelnovakjr | bloo it works |
| 14:23.18 | michaelnovakjr | the connection is refused on the device |
| 14:23.23 | simond | anyone else here using the Neo FreeRunner? |
| 14:23.24 | michaelnovakjr | i tested it locally on the network |
| 14:23.42 | languish | ok, when I connect to an ircd, even without port 113 forwarded, the server still see's my identd username (or realname not gecos) |
| 14:23.44 | thoraxe | Damm: try a diferent port for what? everything works fine for me |
| 14:24.17 | languish | perhaps there's something your client isn't returning aside from identd that the server defaults to when you connect |
| 14:24.22 | languish | and it's waiting for that |
| 14:24.44 | bloo | i say "port" your client so it can run on a pc and run it there |
| 14:24.58 | bloo | and get that working |
| 14:25.11 | *** join/#android dims (n=dims@c-76-24-122-109.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
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| 14:25.16 | *** join/#android vbabiy (n=vbabiy@rrcs-24-97-25-119.nys.biz.rr.com) |
| 14:25.25 | michaelnovakjr | bloo, on android you have no access to port 113, it has to do with that |
| 14:25.36 | bloo | are you 100% sure it has to do with that? |
| 14:25.52 | bloo | have you tried connecting to servers that dont care about identd |
| 14:26.02 | michaelnovakjr | and those are.... |
| 14:26.18 | incandenza | I think languish's explanation sounds right. maybe your client is not passing the 'real_name' field as irssi calls it (not sure where exactly this is done in the protocol) |
| 14:26.18 | bloo | run an ircd yourself? |
| 14:26.40 | michaelnovakjr | incandenza: i can't send a response back |
| 14:26.46 | michaelnovakjr | because i can't gain access to that port |
| 14:26.57 | michaelnovakjr | so its not getting any response |
| 14:27.23 | bloo | try irc.opera.com |
| 14:27.25 | incandenza | can you build this code to run on your PC? |
| 14:27.26 | languish | it doesn't do it on port 113 |
| 14:27.31 | bloo | some googling indicates they dont care about identd |
| 14:27.36 | michaelnovakjr | languish: what port does it do it on? |
| 14:27.50 | michaelnovakjr | bloo, where i googled all night last night |
| 14:27.57 | languish | likely 6667 or whatever port you connected on |
| 14:28.13 | bloo | http://my.opera.com/aleksanteri/blog/beyond-irc |
| 14:28.23 | languish | there's a field you're not passing somewhere |
| 14:28.33 | michaelnovakjr | well, languish the whole thing then :) |
| 14:28.41 | michaelnovakjr | i'm trying to send it on 113 |
| 14:28.57 | michaelnovakjr | let me try 6667 |
| 14:29.04 | bloo | are you doing USER <username> * * :<realname> |
| 14:29.04 | bloo | NICK <nick> |
| 14:29.12 | bloo | regardless of what happens with port 113? |
| 14:29.24 | bloo | thats bare minimum i think to login |
| 14:29.26 | languish | when the ircd doesn't detect identd, it defaults to the real anme field data you entered in the client (as mirc, BitchX..etc use) |
| 14:29.27 | incandenza | try just a raw telnet to 6667 |
| 14:29.37 | incandenza | it complains about no identd, but it doesn't disconnect me |
| 14:29.54 | incandenza | however, it will disconnect after only a few seconds on a timeout, if I don't respond |
| 14:30.11 | incandenza | so I wonder if your client is just not responding, and getting a normal timeout |
| 14:30.26 | *** join/#android bojangles_ (n=bojangle@209-252-120-122.ip.mcleodusa.net) |
| 14:30.29 | *** join/#android yakischloba (n=jake@c-24-22-171-214.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 14:30.31 | languish | yeah, server might even just be waiting for a pong |
| 14:30.35 | languish | :| |
| 14:30.47 | bloo | i suspect it wants to pong you |
| 14:30.51 | languish | though I thought that comes later in the connection process |
| 14:30.59 | bloo | i wanna pong u |
| 14:31.08 | languish | pings bloo |
| 14:31.18 | bloo | PONG |
| 14:31.21 | languish | oh baby |
| 14:31.23 | michaelnovakjr | i'm checking now |
| 14:31.44 | incandenza | it takes literally 15 seconds to drop me on a timeout. maybe the network is just too slow |
| 14:31.45 | bloo | i feel like i could get a working irc client quicker :P |
| 14:32.36 | languish | so do it.. :/ |
| 14:32.55 | languish | it doesn't hurt to have different implimentations |
| 14:33.07 | michaelnovakjr | bloo, go a head then |
| 14:33.10 | michaelnovakjr | i don't really care |
| 14:33.19 | michaelnovakjr | i'm writiing one because no one else has |
| 14:33.23 | bloo | if i get it working you can have my source |
| 14:33.36 | michaelnovakjr | i won't want it.... i'll have moved on |
| 14:33.38 | michaelnovakjr | :) |
| 14:33.52 | bloo | i wont finish it, i have 3 other apps im working on first |
| 14:33.54 | michaelnovakjr | everyone is so damn concerned with rooting the phone :) |
| 14:34.04 | bloo | novak, have you tried it in the emulator? |
| 14:34.19 | bloo | if its network slowness that would probably work then |
| 14:34.53 | languish | if he's on wifi, it's unlikely network slowness, unless he's torrenting the hell outta his line |
| 14:34.56 | Laz | mine is already rooted and blocking tmobile updates :) |
| 14:35.05 | *** join/#android malcolm_ (n=malcom@151.65.89.107) |
| 14:35.29 | cutmasta | Laz, nice |
| 14:35.50 | incandenza | my personal guess is his client is just not responding... and the ident thing is a red herring. just my theory |
| 14:36.03 | languish | tis possible |
| 14:36.35 | languish | i think google should include a reversion option for updates, in case an update breaks something |
| 14:36.47 | Disconnect | heh |
| 14:36.59 | Disconnect | i think they won't, because a broken update can be fixed by resigning and reversioning the working one |
| 14:37.05 | Disconnect | without allowing us to take advantage of it |
| 14:37.30 | *** join/#android jexe_ (n=jesseboy@pool-72-89-199-62.nycmny.east.verizon.net) |
| 14:37.32 | languish | I mean, if say an update breaks someone's home grown app |
| 14:37.58 | *** join/#android smr (n=patrick@c-98-215-144-59.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 14:38.00 | incandenza | I wonder if all the updates are going to be pushed on this spread-out a schedule |
| 14:38.07 | languish | and they want to revert to get it working again until they can take the time to troubleshoot it for the update |
| 14:38.10 | Disconnect | incandenza: generally yes |
| 14:38.25 | Disconnect | languish: then they should have gotten an engineering device.. |
| 14:38.49 | languish | Disconnect, and exactly how do they do that? |
| 14:38.52 | Disconnect | seriously.. the only real-world purpose for a downgrade is "hey they closed that security hole i was using" |
| 14:39.01 | incandenza | people are already getting frustrated now, when the update is hardly anything but bug fixes. imagine how they'll feel when it contains actual features they want :) |
| 14:39.08 | languish | Disconnect, I disagree |
| 14:39.40 | bloo | i think the ota broke one of my apps |
| 14:39.43 | bloo | one feature |
| 14:39.44 | bloo | lol |
| 14:39.53 | *** join/#android Neutron83 (n=neutron8@p548EA2CE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:39.56 | bloo | i swore i tested it and it worked before the ota |
| 14:39.58 | Disconnect | if you can gen revs as often as you like (which they can) and push them as fast or slowly as you like (which they can) then preventing downgrades doesn't impact them at all. it just impacts those of us who might want to revert to an earlier version for whatever reason (and the reasons are generally not in their favor) |
| 14:40.02 | bloo | and someone else mentioned that it worked before the ota too |
| 14:40.10 | *** join/#android milfadoodle (n=milfadoo@h100n2-blg-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 14:40.33 | Disconnect | yah i was gonna mention that it doesn't work for me btw :/ but i'm at rc29 |
| 14:41.09 | incandenza | do the updates just happen by the phone polling a Google server? or is t-mobile involved somehow? |
| 14:41.12 | languish | my point is, it's anti-consumer not to give us the choice, on a supposedly "open" platform |
| 14:41.24 | Disconnect | languish: yep. but the platform isn't the phone, remember? |
| 14:41.47 | Disconnect | thats why we got sources before... oh. thats why the developer devices are... oh. ummm... |
| 14:41.54 | languish | Disconnect, agreed, but it's the OS that's part of the platform ON the phone that's being update. not the physical hardware |
| 14:42.07 | languish | *updated |
| 14:42.12 | languish | so again.. |
| 14:42.19 | Disconnect | thats why its got an apache license. pretend tmob forked it for the g1 and mostly closed it. you'll feel better. |
| 14:42.26 | Disconnect | cuz thats basically how the device+os is handled |
| 14:42.41 | languish | but the updates come from google |
| 14:42.51 | languish | tmo just approves or disapproves them |
| 14:42.58 | Damm | correct languish. |
| 14:42.58 | Disconnect | google -> htc for signing -> tmob for distribution |
| 14:43.01 | languish | and acts as the medium |
| 14:43.01 | Damm | tmo has the final say |
| 14:43.30 | Disconnect | (its possible goog or tmob has keys, but i'd doubt it. if htc holds them then they know that they can be protected..) |
| 14:43.32 | Damm | tmo does not want a fully 'unlocked' device on their network which could allow you to cause damage/destruction/network outages. |
| 14:43.38 | languish | and as usual, the carrier is being anti-consumer |
| 14:43.48 | *** join/#android jbq (n=jbq@72.14.224.1) |
| 14:43.53 | languish | and google is cooperating with them in this |
| 14:43.55 | Damm | actually tmobile is fairly pro-consumer compared to AT&T or Verizon or Sprint |
| 14:44.10 | languish | sorry, I don't believe in "lesser evil" |
| 14:44.12 | languish | evil is eveil |
| 14:44.16 | languish | *evil |
| 14:44.20 | Damm | and stupid is stupid |
| 14:44.23 | Damm | clearly |
| 14:44.25 | Disconnect | Damm: hahahahahaha no they aren't. |
| 14:44.48 | Damm | Disconnect, and how is that? |
| 14:44.49 | languish | Right, and name calling is what? |
| 14:45.17 | Disconnect | Damm: i was amused as hell to see all the 'outrage' over the iphone being locked down "to protect the consumers" (before appstore etc) when tmob makes a policy of - on every handset before this one - preventing 3rd party apps from being able to use the net. (no gmail, no gmaps, no im clients... nothing.) |
| 14:45.38 | Damm | Disconnect, and do you know why? |
| 14:45.49 | Damm | and actually your incorrect |
| 14:45.49 | *** join/#android rl2000 (n=rl2000@0x573b88b0.hhnqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 14:46.04 | Damm | T-Mobile has not stopped Opera Mini, Google Maps, most of their devices include an IM Client. |
| 14:46.05 | languish | users should be given the option of keeping their device "locked down" for security or "open" for their own purposes |
| 14:46.12 | Damm | and your always welcome to install a Gmail j2me client. |
| 14:46.42 | Damm | T-Mobile also is more then willing to help you setup your 3rd party handset you bought from China, and make it work on their network |
| 14:46.47 | Damm | can you say the same of AT&T? Sprint? |
| 14:46.55 | Disconnect | Damm: actually, i tried to upgrade the wif 3 times (and sign 2 year contracts) and 3 times her basic candybar (non-free even - $50-$100 after subsidies) phone couldn't touch the net |
| 14:46.58 | languish | What do I care about att/sprint? |
| 14:47.07 | languish | I'm dealing with t-mobile |
| 14:47.21 | Disconnect | and at&t has historically been great to those people i know who imported phones, although i've never tried it personally |
| 14:47.21 | languish | I don't give a crap about carriers that do not have android devices |
| 14:47.22 | Damm | Disconnect, the problem is your cheap then. |
| 14:47.28 | incandenza | languish: in a way it almost is that way, though--if not advertised. it's not like the whole 'run telnetd' thing was particularly difficult to discover :) |
| 14:47.46 | Damm | AT&T has a pretty standard policy for non AT&T phones... "It may work, it may not... who knows" |
| 14:47.49 | languish | incandenza :) |
| 14:47.51 | Disconnect | wait. so because 90% of their handsets are locked and the final 10% isn't they somehow don't sell locked-down handsets? I'm confused.. |
| 14:48.06 | Disconnect | s/isn't/aren't/ infobot shut your piehole |
| 14:48.09 | Damm | T-Mobile sells cheap phones |
| 14:48.31 | Damm | you cannot compare a 50$ Candybar phone to the G1 |
| 14:48.32 | Disconnect | Damm: its not a lack of support. standard j2me apps. its permissions. it wasn't signed so it got no access. |
| 14:48.50 | oyeoj | hugs guise |
| 14:48.50 | Damm | Disconnect, most devices should allow a properly signed j2me app to be installed. |
| 14:48.57 | Chainfire | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:49.00 | Disconnect | installed, sure. run? sure. connect to the net? no |
| 14:49.21 | Damm | right, if you have the free t-zones you are locked to the T-Zones Deck |
| 14:49.25 | Damm | if you have the 5.99 T-Mobile web you can surf the web, blah blah |
| 14:49.38 | Damm | then the only next step up was T-Mobile Internet for 19.99 |
| 14:49.52 | Damm | however the plans are changing for T-Mobile, with web n go? (or is it web and walk) |
| 14:49.55 | Damm | i forget |
| 14:49.56 | languish | this has no bearing on the point at hand.. |
| 14:50.06 | languish | but nice digression |
| 14:50.26 | Disconnect | Damm: it wasn't plan problems either, we were paying $20 (and to be sure we slapped her sim into my phone and it worked) |
| 14:50.28 | Damm | however, I don't understand how T-Mobile is anti-consumer... T-Mobile is like a slum lord, selling you what you want for dirt cheap... you take it, and then you bitch |
| 14:50.49 | languish | I don't see t-mobile the same way you do |
| 14:50.51 | Damm | Disconnect, cheap crappy phone, big shock... T-Mobile loves Samsung |
| 14:51.16 | ali1234 | sounds like americans have it really bad to me |
| 14:51.17 | languish | damn, are you in the US, or Europe, or? |
| 14:51.21 | Damm | and most Samsungs are a piece of crap to me. They don't do this, they don't do that. |
| 14:51.24 | Damm | languish, US |
| 14:51.27 | Damm | don't let the hostname fool you |
| 14:51.30 | Disconnect | again.. its not the phone capabilities. its the security that -tmobile- puts on it. thats my point. tmobile said "i don't want 3rd party apps running on this phone." you could open the app details and see the greyed out permissions box. |
| 14:51.42 | languish | I was asking because of your attitude, not hostname |
| 14:51.51 | ali1234 | in the UK t-mobile dont lock down their smartphones at all |
| 14:52.02 | ali1234 | nobody does, except the iPhone |
| 14:52.08 | Disconnect | ali1234: what about the candybar phones? |
| 14:52.14 | Damm | Disconnect, if T-Mobile says that they're locking down their phones... you need to ask for their supervisor. |
| 14:52.26 | Damm | because the person your talking to is an idiot. |
| 14:52.36 | languish | there are different levels of "locking down" a phone |
| 14:53.04 | Damm | languish, sorry i've worked for t-mobile in the past and i've seen their attitudes and what they do to try and make the consumer happy... I've also dealt with AT&T |
| 14:53.19 | Disconnect | Damm: we did. i spent 3 hours talking to supervisors, 2nd level support, etc. the final answer was "oh, wait, you want to run something from the net? sure games work fine but no, gmail won't work because it can't talk to the net." |
| 14:53.25 | Damm | I have primarily unlocked phones from China, and T-Mobile is gracious about setting those up... where AT&T is .. |
| 14:53.28 | Damm | gah |
| 14:53.37 | Damm | painful, total lack of details... they won't even tell me the MMSC |
| 14:54.01 | Damm | Disconnect, *sigh* sounds like a problem with T-Mobile's stupid proxy server as usual. |
| 14:54.09 | languish | Damn, see you keep mentioning other carriers, what do I care about other carriers? They don't carry google android devices (yet) |
| 14:54.14 | Damm | change the port on the proxy from 9201 to 8080 and it works. |
| 14:54.14 | Disconnect | (2-3 hours on 611, an hour in the store while they proved - to their satisfaction - that it was not gonna work even though it should. ended up with him on talking to support, put -his- sim in with full-everythin gplan, opened the web browser and it worked, installed gmail and it didn't work..) |
| 14:54.32 | tauno | hey, guys.. your operator dominated world seems like a lot of fun... I'm quite happy now that there are no big operators here who restrict/allow stuff etc. |
| 14:54.39 | languish | I don't compare one carrier to another in these situations, I look at what the carrier I'm dealing with is or os not doing. |
| 14:54.44 | Disconnect | Damm: again, no it wasn't. you could see it in the security settings for the j2me app. |
| 14:54.48 | Damm | languish, focus. |
| 14:55.01 | Damm | Disconnect, which app? gmail? |
| 14:55.05 | bloo | i give up mike novak wins |
| 14:55.23 | Disconnect | yep |
| 14:55.39 | Disconnect | long-click on it (or was it a menu button? either way) to properties and scroll down to permissions |
| 14:55.42 | languish | damn, I'm still focused on the point that was originally made, that you keep digressing from. |
| 14:56.03 | Disconnect | (hey, it just occured to me.. j2me + gmail-mobile == multiple gmail accounts, kinda. without the evil imap noise.) |
| 14:56.19 | Damm | gmail is .. annoying |
| 14:56.24 | Damm | their imap hack is .. |
| 14:56.38 | Damm | languish, I forgot what the original point was other than t-mobile is evil. |
| 14:56.43 | languish | they're working on it |
| 14:56.54 | Disconnect | languish: they're working on lots of stuff.. |
| 14:56.54 | languish | (the email app) |
| 14:57.04 | Damm | rofl... they can keep working on it... as one person I know says 4/5 times you can connect to imap |
| 14:57.09 | Damm | then the 1 time it fails miserably |
| 14:57.51 | languish | What I believe shouldn't have been done, was sell a beta product to the public as a 1.0 retail release |
| 14:58.19 | languish | I know quite a few average joes that love the phone, but are getting frustrated over problems with it |
| 14:58.21 | jbq | takes offense |
| 14:58.41 | vol | I'm annoyed that the camera is basically useless |
| 14:58.41 | Damm | languish, yes, and no... I like that they released an unfinished product that we can help finish. |
| 14:58.47 | vol | it's cool being able to scan barcodes and all |
| 14:58.53 | vol | but it's such as shitty, shitty camera.... |
| 14:59.04 | Damm | vol, have you been able to? I can't get the camera to take even a decent picture worth reviewing. |
| 14:59.04 | ali1234 | languish: you only have to look at the market for WM based smartphones to know that people who buy this kind of thing arn't looking for a stable reliable phone |
| 14:59.09 | languish | damn, they should have released it as a "developers heaven" |
| 14:59.10 | Chainfire | vol thats quite common for Qualcomm based phones... |
| 14:59.28 | vol | Damm: the barcode scanning works well enough, if you have decent lighting and spend a few seconds |
| 14:59.36 | Damm | vol, ah |
| 14:59.40 | Damm | well it's a CMOS Camera |
| 14:59.41 | vol | but it's so incredibly bad for actual pictures : ( |
| 14:59.41 | Chainfire | something as restricted as the G1 doesnt seem like a developers heaven to me, languish |
| 14:59.56 | Damm | Chainfire, nah that's really the Openmoko |
| 15:00.04 | Damm | the G1 is more of the wannabe hackers delight. |
| 15:00.15 | Damm | people who want something different from WM, and Blackberry |
| 15:00.18 | vol | Yeah, enjoy the openmoko |
| 15:00.19 | Chainfire | myeah but thats the Openmoko isnt really a real world device |
| 15:00.25 | vol | the phone that does not reliably make to take phone calls |
| 15:00.31 | vol | s/to/or/ |
| 15:00.34 | jbq | We're working on making it easier for the OpenMoko people to contribute their changes back to the main Android source tree. |
| 15:00.37 | languish | ali1234, what i've been seeing in the t-mobile stores, are "people" that see a new phone some of the saleds reps are excited about, or some techy people they know are excitied about, and so they buy it for thmeselves and their families because it has "google" and "email" and Im" Oh my! |
| 15:00.50 | vol | ugh |
| 15:00.52 | vol | speaking of which |
| 15:00.59 | vol | they need to shoot whoever did the marketing campaign for the G1 |
| 15:01.05 | vol | "Hey guys, buy the G1! It has google search!" |
| 15:01.08 | vol | "... yeah! Google!" |
| 15:01.14 | vol | "... you know ..... google." |
| 15:01.20 | vol | "yeah, you can, you know, search for things." |
| 15:01.26 | vol | "you can search. that's pretty awesome right?" |
| 15:01.27 | languish | yep, the google name is selling it to the general public |
| 15:01.43 | *** join/#android malcolm__ (n=malcom@151.65.95.244) |
| 15:01.44 | languish | if you just called it the htc t-mobile android g1, no one would care much |
| 15:01.47 | vol | (ignore the compass, accelerometer, gps, 3G data, wifi) |
| 15:01.57 | languish | but no.. it's the "google phone" |
| 15:02.11 | ali1234 | languish: i love how you put "people" in inverted commas like they are somehow less than human or something :) |
| 15:02.16 | languish | and google really should have been more responsible about it |
| 15:02.45 | languish | ali1234, I put google in quotations in reference to your statement about people |
| 15:03.05 | languish | <ali1234> languish: you only have to look at the market for WM based smartphones to know that people who buy this kind of thing arn't looking for a stable reliable phone |
| 15:03.28 | languish | because people who are buying it ARE buying it as a retail product, which they expect to be stable and work |
| 15:04.08 | Damm | ... it's been fun in here, but clearly too much crap about 'it doesn't do this, or that...' this is evil |
| 15:04.12 | Damm | cya |
| 15:04.13 | *** part/#android Damm (n=damm@acheron.livid.dk) |
| 15:04.17 | *** join/#android streeter (n=streeter@12.68.228.100) |
| 15:04.23 | *** join/#android ziyourenxiang (n=ziyouren@bb121-7-21-232.singnet.com.sg) |
| 15:04.29 | languish | when it really should have been specifically sold to people with the understanding it's primarily for the more technical consumers who may want to develop for it, until it's better fleshed out |
| 15:04.54 | languish | truth hurts |
| 15:04.55 | languish | :| |
| 15:05.01 | Chainfire | i dunno, my WM devices are pretty stable :/ |
| 15:05.14 | Chainfire | more stable than most of the 'dumbphones' I've had, at least :) |
| 15:05.28 | languish | wasn't walking aboit winmo, just the g1 |
| 15:05.39 | ali1234 | that's completely unpossible :) |
| 15:05.54 | deebo | anyone bumped into a gpl (or similiar) license ocr lib? (to be used with 'write on the screen' text input) |
| 15:06.50 | Jagger_7 | use google hehe |
| 15:07.12 | Jagger_7 | http://swik.net/OCR+gpl |
| 15:07.14 | Disconnect | vol: they push search cuz its the only part that works reliably :) |
| 15:07.18 | *** join/#android jbq_ (n=jbq@nat/google/x-7f79cd6bef158f83) |
| 15:08.04 | languish | Disconnect, lol |
| 15:08.26 | languish | it doesn't help that t-mobile's netwark is having growing pains in some areas |
| 15:08.36 | Disconnect | does think walmart is gonna prove to be the worst thing that could happen to android in general and the g1 in particular |
| 15:08.54 | deebo | Jagger_7: ive done it, alot :P guess ill make my own |
| 15:09.26 | *** join/#android AstainZZZZZZ (n=AstainHe@unaffiliated/astainhellbring) |
| 15:09.29 | Disconnect | unless they've got a ton of huge fixes lined up in secret somewhere (sure its possible but i doubt it) .. camera doesn't work, gps mostly works (but takes up to 15 minutes to get a hit if its moving..not so good for use in the car..) etc |
| 15:10.08 | languish | which reminds me |
| 15:10.11 | cmonex | Chainfire: |
| 15:10.19 | cmonex | WM is stable as long as you dont take a wm6.1 device.. |
| 15:10.27 | cmonex | WM6.1 is really sucky |
| 15:10.37 | cmonex | now, that's my personal opinion and experience of course |
| 15:10.50 | languish | I have to swap my g1 for a replacement anyway. The camera button is almost impossible to use. Wife's works fine. silly htc quality control |
| 15:10.56 | *** join/#android jexe_ (n=jesseboy@static-64-115-213-78.isp.broadviewnet.net) |
| 15:12.00 | bloo | hi |
| 15:12.04 | vol | Disconnect: It doesn't take me longer than 30 seconds to get a GPS fix if I'm outside |
| 15:12.06 | Chainfire | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:12.10 | Disconnect | vol: in a moving car? |
| 15:12.13 | cmonex | hehe np Chainfire :) |
| 15:12.13 | vol | yes |
| 15:12.19 | vol | I pulled mine out on the way to lunch yesterda |
| 15:12.21 | languish | I can't say I've ever had problems with pocketpc/winmo, but mostly because I rarely used said devices as anything other than pda's and wifi testers |
| 15:12.32 | cmonex | btw Chainfire.. before wm6.1 i never understood people complaining.. |
| 15:12.33 | vol | I also thoroughly enjoy the cell tower location feature |
| 15:12.39 | vol | since it doesn't chew battery |
| 15:12.39 | cmonex | but i'll fix this .. |
| 15:13.02 | languish | I've found the gps to work rather well for me outdoors |
| 15:13.04 | Disconnect | dunno, i'll try it again not on the highway. but last time i used it on the highway it took -forever- to get a hit. we were almost to our destination when it finally found us. |
| 15:13.36 | languish | Disconnect, did you let the g1 sit in full view of the sky for awhile with gps truned on before using gps? |
| 15:13.45 | languish | *turned |
| 15:13.57 | Disconnect | i agree that sitting still it seems good. it can place me in the office anywhere within about 10-15' of the window (which is equiv or better than the iphone 3g, fyi. or at least the one who sits next to me. and only slightly worse than the e90, which had viciously-good gps reception) |
| 15:14.15 | Disconnect | languish: that doesn't count as "acquiring a fix while moving" does it? |
| 15:14.34 | languish | I hopped a bus the other day to do some reading while the G1 tracked via gps. It worked rather precisely |
| 15:15.12 | languish | same when I took a taxi |
| 15:15.18 | Disconnect | right but it sounds like you turned it on and then got on the bus after you had a fix. try pulling it out while moving and - with no fix or gps running beforehand - getting a fix. thats a different test. |
| 15:15.30 | languish | nod |
| 15:16.22 | languish | I'll be doing a master reset on my G1 before exchanging it, I'll test that then |
| 15:16.29 | Disconnect | cool. |
| 15:16.49 | Disconnect | i'd suspect my unit except it actually works great when it does have a fix |
| 15:18.22 | languish | jbq, just a note.. I'm completely for the direction google wants to go in with android. It's just some of the (perhaps necessary?) steps along the way that grate on my sensitive consumer nerves :) |
| 15:18.56 | languish | especially being "the guy" that so many around me whine to when these idiots buy devices I told them they shouldn't |
| 15:19.10 | jbq_ | yeah, that par can suck. |
| 15:19.15 | jbq_ | s/par/part/ |
| 15:19.52 | *** join/#android inZane-_ (i=nemo@dslb-084-058-017-245.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 15:20.21 | ttuttle | should fix the terminal emulator widget. |
| 15:20.25 | Disconnect | i think one day it'll be great. i think right now there are serious problems with core functionality that should have been solved -long- before people were talking about a release.. |
| 15:21.22 | languish | I think one of the gdevs mentioned they didn't exactly want to release this soon, but t-mobile did (likely to get in before the holidays and touch pro releases) |
| 15:21.30 | Disconnect | "the community will fix it" works only so long as the community is the primary user, and only when the community -can- fix it. tmob and walmart (esp walmart..) are gonna change that, and whats out there now is much more the moko-model "here's a pile of stuff we kinda hacked together, now you go fix it" |
| 15:21.40 | *** join/#android DannyB (n=dannyb@c-69-139-151-245.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 15:22.04 | Disconnect | hey anyone got the rc30 url? |
| 15:22.27 | *** join/#android bszabo (n=bszabo@ip72-208-41-138.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 15:22.35 | ttuttle | Disconnect: you *want* rc30? |
| 15:22.41 | languish | hahaha |
| 15:22.42 | Disconnect | i want the zip for rc30 |
| 15:22.47 | Disconnect | different animal entirely |
| 15:22.51 | ttuttle | Disconnect: ahh |
| 15:22.52 | vol | What is different in 30 |
| 15:22.54 | jbq_ | Disconnect: what's wrong with having a community? Would you prefer a model when the platform is worked on behind closed doors? |
| 15:23.03 | languish | he wants to see how it's fixed and how to break it again :) |
| 15:23.10 | ttuttle | languish: heh. |
| 15:23.32 | ttuttle | languish: the hole is entirely closed. he'll have to start from scratch. |
| 15:23.34 | *** join/#android jexe_ (n=jesseboy@static-64-115-213-78.isp.broadviewnet.net) |
| 15:23.47 | languish | ttuttle, yeah I read about that |
| 15:23.58 | Disconnect | jbq_: the community is fine, except the community is both hamstrung (no -legit- ability to, eg, fix email app or replace the camera app.. both the lock and the onboard storage restrictions are a problem here) and its not just a developer community anymore. |
| 15:24.10 | languish | good luck gettin the crackers refocused on anything beyond rc29 |
| 15:24.24 | *** join/#android boo1239 (n=boo1239@c-68-37-236-163.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 15:24.33 | bloo | yay |
| 15:24.34 | cmonex | languish: |
| 15:24.34 | languish | right, idiots like me can get a g1 |
| 15:24.39 | cmonex | there will be new crackers.. |
| 15:24.48 | cmonex | who dont have the g1 yet.. |
| 15:24.48 | Disconnect | would have happily paid $400 for this thing (with 1 or 0 year contract) as a dev device.. but $200 (with fees) and 2 years is insane. esp if you -aren't- gonna hack on it but just want an "iphone killer" |
| 15:25.01 | languish | cmonex, I know :) but the initial adopters are usually the best |
| 15:25.27 | cmonex | no, not always :) |
| 15:25.27 | languish | the passion is different |
| 15:25.29 | bloo | guess who boo1239 is :) |
| 15:25.41 | languish | cmonex, well, we'll see what revision you end up with lol |
| 15:25.45 | cmonex | i know some great people who came later to a platform |
| 15:25.46 | ttuttle | looks at the g1 he had before launch and realizes how awesome he must be. |
| 15:25.53 | cmonex | and, they surpassed earlier adopters just fine :shrug: |
| 15:25.59 | languish | nod |
| 15:26.04 | jbq_ | Disconnect: so, your concern is that the source code was released too early, at a point where it's not yet usable on real devices? |
| 15:26.22 | jbq_ | is puzzled, wonders how he can push to try to make things better. |
| 15:26.52 | bloo | i was able to connect here from the android emulator |
| 15:26.55 | cmonex | ttuttle: except now everyone has what you have ;P |
| 15:26.56 | bloo | but no dice on the actual g1 |
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| 15:27.13 | Chainfire | i for one am thankful for the source, but at this stage it isnt that much use to developers as you cant replace/fix/etc. |
| 15:27.28 | cmonex | Chainfire: the source sure made it easy to make custom recovery.img |
| 15:27.36 | cmonex | though, now i made one without recompling |
| 15:27.39 | Chainfire | perhaps it will help in jailbraking 30 :) |
| 15:27.43 | cmonex | just for the heck of it (patching the assembled one) |
| 15:28.17 | cmonex | yes it will probably help in jailbreaking... |
| 15:28.22 | cmonex | so that's nice. |
| 15:28.34 | cmonex | BTW - imagine if you could recompile the WM OS |
| 15:29.22 | Chainfire | that'd take several cups of coffee, I imagine. |
| 15:29.24 | cmonex | imagine how great it would be just fix the latest GWES from source instead of patching it, sigh. |
| 15:29.32 | *** join/#android mowgli (n=mviswana@host-208-68-238-61.biznesshosting.net) |
| 15:29.38 | cmonex | Chainfire: heh darkforce can do it but they are not giving the stuff out |
| 15:30.05 | Chainfire | well hurrah for darkforce then ... /me immediately forgets |
| 15:30.26 | languish | or you can join darkforce |
| 15:30.27 | languish | lol |
| 15:30.30 | AstainHellbring | too many people out there with tools that refuse to share them |
| 15:30.33 | *** join/#android bloog1 (n=bloog1@c-68-37-236-163.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 15:31.13 | Disconnect | sorry INTBOSS |
| 15:31.14 | Disconnect | back now |
| 15:31.17 | cmonex | languish: they will not take new members, so no. |
| 15:31.20 | Chainfire | true that |
| 15:31.34 | Disconnect | jbq: my concern is that the devices were released too early and/or the source too late. |
| 15:31.51 | *** join/#android bloog1 (n=bloog1@c-68-37-236-163.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 15:31.54 | cmonex | AstainHellbring: they refuse to share because they are afraid they wont get new stuff. to be able to make new roms you have to be continunally receiving the new AKUs |
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| 15:32.02 | Disconnect | nobody picked it up and handed it to an iphone (or blackberry or wm) standard user and said "try this out" or if they did, they didn't listen. |
| 15:32.03 | cmonex | (or you can tweak older roms, but new AKU is the cool thing) |
| 15:32.19 | Disconnect | things like the email app being totally broken for imap -scream- "nobody gave this a solid test" |
| 15:32.26 | jbq | Disconnect: that's where you're making assumptions that turn out to be wrong. |
| 15:32.53 | cmonex | Disconnect: now i'm really curious too see these things in real life.. |
| 15:33.27 | Disconnect | jbq: how did email escape without being able to update the server? you are saying that there was a test plan that covered that and you (generic you) just went "well.. maybe nobody will notice.." |
| 15:34.05 | *** join/#android Terdhex (n=ENRIQUE@host-208-68-238-61.biznesshosting.net) |
| 15:34.27 | *** join/#android bloog1 (n=bloog1@m450436d0.tmodns.net) |
| 15:34.32 | jbq | It's true that there are some pain points with some of the apps, and it's true that not all of those pain points had been fully identified before the release - but that's not enough to conclude that the code without being tested. |
| 15:34.35 | bloo | i just connected to here from my g1 |
| 15:34.37 | bloo | i win! |
| 15:35.33 | jbq | I'm personally not familiar with IMAP, neither as a protocol nor as our implementation, so I can't say anything precise about it. |
| 15:35.50 | *** join/#android famast (n=famast@host-208-68-238-61.biznesshosting.net) |
| 15:36.09 | famast | Is there any API to get the battery life? |
| 15:36.15 | jbq | I do know however that we have some fresh eyes looking over that code, and that this is something that we clearly want to improve. |
| 15:36.18 | Disconnect | i never said "no testing" I said "rushed/poor testing". i've tried handing this to people. they open a couple windows in the browser, then hit home and it hangs for 15-45 seconds. if they don't wander off immediately they want to take a picture. if -that- doesn't discourage them they ask about email (..yeah) and so forth. there is no one app you can point to that just straight -works- |
| 15:36.49 | ali1234 | Disconnect: if you think WM works any better than this you are mistaken. my WM phone arrived completely with half finished bluetooth (no headset support), alarms that just fail to go off 50% of the time, and the uncanny ability to silently drop incoming calls at random. |
| 15:37.12 | Disconnect | jbq: the problem with email isn't imap IDLE support. thats a bonus that yes, should have been included, but its a missing feature. the -breakage- is the fact that in shipping retail software you can't delete messages. you can't even mark them read with any sort of reliability. (its prolly different in rc29, i moved to k-9 so..) |
| 15:38.29 | DannyB | the thing is |
| 15:38.34 | DannyB | none of our testers had these problems |
| 15:38.55 | DannyB | you simply assume we didn't test it or "poorly tested it" |
| 15:38.56 | languish | next time, add me to the testers list |
| 15:39.08 | languish | I'll break it and show you where |
| 15:39.12 | languish | nooo problem |
| 15:39.15 | jbq | (and we'd have heard about it if anyone had had problems with it, because our testers are very vocal) |
| 15:39.22 | DannyB | *very* vocal |
| 15:39.29 | tauno | (G1 has a "broken" bluetooth implementation too.. or how do you call the current state that no apps (other than googles) can use bluetooth.. it's basically useless IMO) |
| 15:39.44 | Disconnect | DannyB: your testers clearly did not test imap email then. basic email app test plan is "create 2-3 accounts of each type - here are credentials. send an email - here is what it should arrive as. receive an email (testing noficcations,etcetcetc) delete an email" *** thats the break. its a -core feature-. |
| 15:39.45 | languish | tauno, G1's bluetooth isn't broken. It's unfinished. period |
| 15:39.51 | DannyB | again |
| 15:40.14 | DannyB | you assume becasue it does not work for you that it did not work in testing |
| 15:40.18 | DannyB | this is a wildly bad assumption |
| 15:40.33 | languish | G1's mono bluetooth for headsets works just fine for compatible headsets (not all headsets are compatible) |
| 15:40.39 | Disconnect | you never ever tested a retail device? thats not a detailed coverage test, thats a simple integration/verification test.. |
| 15:40.48 | DannyB | dude |
| 15:40.53 | DannyB | you are stil missing it |
| 15:40.59 | DannyB | WHEN WE DID IT |
| 15:41.00 | DannyB | IT WORKED |
| 15:41.09 | cmonex | <ali1234> Disconnect: if you think WM works any better than this you are mistaken. my WM phone arrived completely with half finished bluetooth (no headset support) -> no headset support? I wonder how old that phone was. :) |
| 15:41.23 | Disconnect | DannyB: -something- is different between what you tested successfully and what they shipped. which indicates that what you tested successfully was -not- what was shipped. which is -still- a lack of testing. |
| 15:41.29 | DannyB | no |
| 15:41.31 | rreck | dannyb: dont get bent about people talking in IRC its not worth it |
| 15:41.34 | tauno | languish, thats why I said "broken".. it works but only for some applications :) (for them it works just fine I guess) It's just that any other $50 device has a bluetooth API of some kind (be it jsr82 for J2ME) |
| 15:41.44 | DannyB | rreck: i just wish he wasn't so dumb :) |
| 15:42.11 | jbq | languish: we're working hard on e.g. making the official source tree buildable for OpenMoko (as opposed to a fork), so that it's easier for enthusiasts like you to actually grab newer versions before they get on boxed devices in a retail store and give us feedback. |
| 15:42.12 | rreck | IRC is for trolling |
| 15:42.29 | DannyB | Disconnect: okay dude, you caught us. we decided not to test the retail versions, instead testing secret versions nobody was going to use. |
| 15:42.35 | cmonex | DannyB: I dont have a G1. but surely he didnt just invent the problems. he actually met them. so how about accepting that? =) |
| 15:42.37 | languish | jbq, I know/understand :) |
| 15:42.46 | Disconnect | DannyB: here is a thing, A. this "A" is blue. your testers look at it, and it is blue, and they check "blue". now here is the thing A production line. all the new things off the line are green. something changed.. |
| 15:42.51 | DannyB | cmonex: we do, but he claims it was due to bad testing. and it clearly wasn't |
| 15:43.01 | Disconnect | DannyB: then what did happen? |
| 15:43.06 | cmonex | i see. |
| 15:43.11 | DannyB | why don't you let us find out |
| 15:43.13 | DannyB | instead of you know |
| 15:43.16 | cmonex | actually about testing, i think it is very hard to get everything fully tested |
| 15:43.18 | DannyB | continually claiming it was bad testing |
| 15:43.36 | DannyB | with you know |
| 15:43.38 | DannyB | no evidence |
| 15:43.54 | rreck | why is arguing in IRC like being in the special olympics? because even if you "win" you are still challenged |
| 15:44.01 | DannyB | no reason to let facts get in the way of a good rant |
| 15:44.09 | languish | jbq, I'm not upset with the gdevs. I'm more frustrated that the business end had such desire to make this work with a carrier, they caved to an earlier than desired release to consumers |
| 15:44.12 | vol | every time you post a platitude from the `90s, god kills a kitten. |
| 15:44.15 | vol | Please, think of the domo kuns. |
| 15:44.17 | Disconnect | if it worked in testing, chances are there is a version out there somewhere that works. the discussion i was seeing here (external to google, but involving google devs) was not "oh damn, thats an old build, wonder what happened" it was "hey, yeah, we really should implement that.." (again, not imap idle, but delete/read status) |
| 15:44.19 | DannyB | rreck: actually, the quote is "arguing on the intenet is like the special olympics. Even if you win you are still retarded" |
| 15:44.44 | rreck | well im trying to soften the blow for you retards |
| 15:44.49 | *** join/#android chris__ (n=chris@host86-129-222-100.range86-129.btcentralplus.com) |
| 15:44.51 | DannyB | rreck: i was part of that thread ;) |
| 15:44.53 | vol | To switch gears a bit, has anyone had experience using gdbserver on the emulator/device? I'm having trouble using gdb to load a symbol file to actually set breakpoints. |
| 15:45.17 | DannyB | vol: I used it early on to debug some C++ stuff |
| 15:45.19 | vol | I was under the impression that I can use standard gdb when debugging, regardless of gdbserver version, or do I need a version that can read the arm specific executables |
| 15:45.29 | rreck | let be honest ANYONE who bought this thing should have learned that ANYTHING on its first run is going to be buggy |
| 15:45.33 | DannyB | gdb's remote protocol is backwards compatible |
| 15:45.37 | DannyB | so it should just work |
| 15:45.43 | DannyB | regardless of gdb version you use |
| 15:45.46 | languish | rreck, you mean should have been informed. |
| 15:45.47 | vol | Hmmm. |
| 15:45.52 | DannyB | you *do* need a gdb that understands ARM |
| 15:45.53 | fadden0 | DannyB: I think you need arm-eabi-gdb to read the symbols out of the ARM binaries |
| 15:45.54 | jbq | sits back, relaxes, and enjoys the shows |
| 15:46.00 | vol | Let me double check and make sure symbol info was actually made. |
| 15:46.01 | languish | :) |
| 15:46.09 | vol | fadden0: ah |
| 15:46.09 | fadden0 | Should be sitting next to arm-eabi-gcc and friends. |
| 15:46.24 | rreck | ok news flash, every single product ever made was buggy when it first came out, expect this to continue you are hereby informed |
| 15:46.37 | DannyB | fadden0: well, kinda. you need it to disassemble and apply relocations. you don't actually need it for the debug info :) |
| 15:46.57 | vol | blergh! Why does my toolchain not have gdb : ( |
| 15:47.03 | languish | rreck, except that's not what consumers are told when purchasing :P |
| 15:47.03 | vol | searches |
| 15:47.04 | DannyB | vol: that sounds odd |
| 15:47.20 | rreck | nes flash, market dweebs lie |
| 15:47.21 | DannyB | in any case, i don't think any patches were made to gdb |
| 15:47.35 | fadden0 | val: prebuilt/linux-x86/toolchain/arm-eabi-4.2.1/bin/ has it |
| 15:47.39 | DannyB | so at worst you could configure gdb with --target=arm-eabi-linux |
| 15:47.39 | rreck | microsoft is a powerful multiuser operating system |
| 15:47.44 | *** join/#android Delvien (n=Delvien@cpe-75-180-28-178.columbus.res.rr.com) |
| 15:47.46 | vol | fadden0: Argh. Alright, I'll check there |
| 15:48.06 | *** join/#android bloo (n=blau@c-68-37-236-163.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 15:48.07 | *** join/#android matt_c (n=mcroydon@24.124.4.116) |
| 15:48.16 | cmonex | no, microsoft is a company.. |
| 15:48.22 | Chainfire | DannyB> do you know the location to the public G1-build version of Android? |
| 15:48.25 | bloo | im so miffed that theres no easy way to replace inlcuded apps |
| 15:48.26 | bloo | grrr |
| 15:48.32 | *** join/#android lindever__ (n=eton@ppp-58-8-4-225.revip2.asianet.co.th) |
| 15:48.39 | Chainfire | I've been told to ask swetland but he's never around :) |
| 15:48.45 | Disconnect | bloo: you have root now. (and ssh if you want it.) you can replace apps :) |
| 15:48.51 | rreck | i should have said Microsoft Windows/Vista |
| 15:49.02 | bloo | disc, its not simple though and it means i cant really share them |
| 15:49.07 | DannyB | Chainfire: not offhand :( |
| 15:49.28 | Chainfire | or where to find it then? :) |
| 15:49.32 | *** join/#android zenob (n=chatzill@akademik.nat.student.pw.edu.pl) |
| 15:49.40 | cmonex | rreck: well it is powerful, it is multiuser, but dont run it on anything that doesnt have xxxxxxx GB of ram and Ghz of cpu :) |
| 15:49.44 | cmonex | (vista) |
| 15:50.16 | rreck | IMHO its a farce |
| 15:50.39 | Disconnect | ..neat, something broke my rootsh |
| 15:51.17 | languish | did you select install at the OTA update prompt? :P |
| 15:51.21 | Disconnect | works on the device but not over ssh. i wonder what i did (or what happened? hope not.) |
| 15:51.23 | Disconnect | heh no prompt |
| 15:51.34 | Disconnect | and i blew away my ota keys and the updater app |
| 15:51.49 | tauno | rreck, no, please.. let's not go there |
| 15:51.53 | Disconnect | (not totally blown away of course, just moved somewhere safe) |
| 15:52.09 | bloo | disc, its blown away if root doesnt go |
| 15:52.12 | languish | unless they're google magic'd too |
| 15:52.19 | bloo | disc, its blown away if root breaks |
| 15:52.32 | rreck | well i was trying to think of the largest of marketing lies that persists despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary |
| 15:52.36 | Disconnect | bloo: it enables you to work The Google Way. create and test patches, then submit and hope it gets released by tmob in under 6 months. |
| 15:53.29 | jbq | Disconnect: I have no evidence that any patch that was submitted from the outside has been sitting unreleased for 6 months or more. |
| 15:54.26 | Disconnect | jbq: tmob isn't known for doing lots of updates. (which is not a slam on them, its in their best interest - updates are always risky, and - barring the rapid security releases that have happened recently - it only makes sense to bundle them up, test them and release them on their usual slower cycle) |
| 15:54.42 | tauno | rreck, it's your opinion against the opinion on somebody else.. nobody is right.. nobody can really "win". statements like this make things only worse :) |
| 15:54.51 | *** join/#android theCarpenter (n=virtualm@c-98-243-171-119.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) |
| 15:55.11 | theCarpenter | So is Android Market an app in and of itself? |
| 15:55.14 | bloo | there should be an easy way to install updates without waiting for OTAs |
| 15:55.16 | theCarpenter | Or is it a website? |
| 15:55.24 | bloo | android market is an app |
| 15:55.29 | oyeoj | theCarpenter: yes |
| 15:55.33 | *** join/#android twhd (n=twhd@79.111.106.160) |
| 15:55.37 | Disconnect | jbq: or, to rephrase, i also have no evidence that tmobile will do something unusual and risky with its new flagship device by releasing rapid and evolving updates.. |
| 15:55.53 | theCarpenter | So android market is an app that coems bundled with android? What's the name of it? I can't seem to find source for it anywhere |
| 15:55.55 | jbq | Disconnect: I can agree with that. Time will tell. |
| 15:55.57 | rreck | tauno: as things are only made worse in a form of UNIX we will be alright |
| 15:56.03 | theCarpenter | closest I see is something called "packageinstaller" |
| 15:56.06 | bloo | source has not been released afaik |
| 15:56.12 | rreck | s/as/if/ |
| 15:56.15 | Disconnect | theCarpenter: marketplace and google* are all closed |
| 15:56.15 | bloo | source for gmail hasnt either |
| 15:56.24 | Disconnect | infobot shove a weasel in it |
| 15:56.29 | Chainfire | eh, you cant use ports <1024 in Android without root, right? |
| 15:56.44 | theCarpenter | So does market then just call PackageInstaller to do the actual installation? |
| 15:56.58 | Disconnect | has anyone retested email app in rc29? |
| 15:57.01 | bloo | chain, yeah, but seriously how many apps need that? |
| 15:57.07 | jbq | theCarpenter: sadly, no, it goes through a slightly different door. |
| 15:57.08 | marcone | Chainfire: you cant use ports <1024 without root in any linux |
| 15:57.20 | Chainfire | k just checking |
| 15:57.25 | oyeoj | theCarpenter: my impression is market just downloads the app |
| 15:57.36 | Chainfire | bloo> all the apps im interested in? |
| 15:57.44 | bloo | chain, like hwat? |
| 15:57.53 | jbq | Chainfire: we discussed that here yesterday evening, this is something that should probably be opened a bit. We just need to agree on a security model, and from that point it's really only a matter of writing the code. |
| 15:57.53 | Chainfire | networking tools |
| 15:58.00 | bloo | you can go out of port < 1024 |
| 15:58.19 | Chainfire | thats good news jbq |
| 15:58.32 | jbq | oyeoj: actually, the actual download is done by the download provider. |
| 15:58.34 | theCarpenter | jbq: so market doesn't use PackageInstaller to install apps - does it use any released source code at all? |
| 15:59.02 | Chainfire | jbq> any idea about _when_ this will happen? (very roughly... weeks... months... 2010?) |
| 15:59.11 | languish | "If I wanted to make my own maert style app, what source code should I reference?" |
| 15:59.22 | oyeoj | jbq: ok fine. it passes a link to download provider. :) |
| 15:59.36 | languish | *market |
| 15:59.58 | jbq | Chainfire: it's hard to tell, it depends a lot of who is interested in contributing the change and how it fits in their priority list. |
| 16:00.10 | Chainfire | ah k |
| 16:00.35 | Chainfire | if you dont mind me asking, what are the security considerations in this? |
| 16:00.38 | languish | think I'm gonna dig in to an early lunch |
| 16:01.25 | jbq | The path that is used by market to actually install the apk should be in the open-source tree, though I don't know off-hand where it is. I can try to look it up. |
| 16:01.46 | *** join/#android jt436 (n=jtomlins@sdserver66.mforma.com) |
| 16:01.52 | andatche | jbq: are there any plans to allow package installation to the sd card? rapidly running out of space on the device |
| 16:01.56 | bloo | not that we got root i think ill work on my swipe based web browser |
| 16:02.26 | jbq | andatche: we're working on some plans, yes, but at this point the more we dig the harder we discover that it is. |
| 16:02.34 | theCarpenter | jbq: that woudl be great... reason i'm asking is i was hoping to add a reputation-based component to market, upvote/downvote style, and block installation of really downvoted apps |
| 16:02.37 | jbq | has a hard time keeping up with the discussions. |
| 16:03.16 | Chainfire | I asked what the security considerations were for <1024 port access, if that helps :P |
| 16:03.29 | andatche | jbq: yeah, I can imagine it complicates things a bit |
| 16:03.37 | Disconnect | jbq: fwiw at least a stopgap would be to do a loopback image. thats what the n8x0 is doing for swap.. |
| 16:03.42 | theCarpenter | i've done incredibly extensive searching through the open sourced tree, and i thought i was just missing something, and that the market and its installer source were just in some corner somewhere i couldn't find... >_< |
| 16:03.43 | jbq | On the Market front, I know that we've discussed ways to allow a third-party market to go through the exact same codepath as market, including the ability to ask for permissions before downloading, and to uninstall applications. |
| 16:04.07 | jbq | Disconnect: yes, that's the easy part. The hard part is that it's on removable storage. |
| 16:04.20 | Chainfire | also, there was some talk about how to request a product name you may use that includes the Android name... Is that possible yet? (a web form or something?) |
| 16:04.44 | Disconnect | so are ringtones and music, handle it in the same umount and/or warning path.. |
| 16:05.16 | bloo | http://services.google.com/permissions/application |
| 16:05.40 | bloo | you can use droid |
| 16:05.42 | jbq | Chainfire: the security issue I'm aware of is whether it's OK for any app to bind any port, especially the standard ones -e.g. in the case where you have an app that legitimately wants to run a web server, and one that just tries to hijack port 80. |
| 16:05.49 | bloo | android can only be used like "blablbal for Android" |
| 16:05.52 | bloo | http://www.android.com/branding.html |
| 16:06.26 | Disconnect | jbq: if i can insert a thought into that discussion (which i'm guessing is happening internally..?) this would also be a good place to add temporary permissions.. |
| 16:06.42 | Chainfire | bloo> thx |
| 16:07.43 | jbq | Disconnect: a good place for such a discussion would be one of the official mailing lists (I'd guess android-platform or android-security-discuss) |
| 16:08.42 | Chainfire | jbq> while I can understand such a thing for a real computer... i think the chances are a lot bigger that an app actually wants to run something there legitimitaly than not on a phone :D |
| 16:08.44 | Disconnect | jbq: you were indicating there was already an internal discussion.. "jbq(10:57am) Chainfire: we discussed that here yesterday evening, this is something that should probably be opened a bit. We just need to agree on a security model, and from that point it's really only a matter of writing the code." |
| 16:08.57 | theCarpenter | jbq: sorry to bother you again, but any luck finding that path in the open source tree that market actually uses to install stuff? |
| 16:09.31 | bloo | carpenter: hook up your phone to your pc |
| 16:09.31 | *** join/#android wastrel (n=wastrel@nylug/member/wastrel) |
| 16:09.36 | bloo | runs ddms and check logcat |
| 16:09.39 | bloo | see what intents get run |
| 16:10.17 | jbq | Chainfire: yes, that's why I said that we need to decide whether there's really any need for a specific security at all (e.g. whether there can be some ports that are used for mobile-specific core services and that should stay reserved for the system, like for e.g. proxy-initiated OMA push. |
| 16:10.36 | jbq | Disconnect: actually, the discussion happened here on IRC yesterday evening. |
| 16:10.44 | Disconnect | ah ok |
| 16:10.47 | Disconnect | nm then :) |
| 16:10.59 | jbq | theCarpenter: let me try to look this up |
| 16:11.01 | Chainfire | well fix it, and you can add one more shop developing for Android :) |
| 16:11.07 | theCarpenter | bloo: i don't have a phone mate ;) |
| 16:11.19 | languish | waits for samba to be ported to android/G1 lulz |
| 16:11.23 | blau | oh |
| 16:11.33 | blau | 11-07 11:10:44.782: INFO/ActivityThread(1804): Publishing provider downloads: com.android.providers.downloads.DownloadProvider |
| 16:11.46 | blau | it looks like it uses downloadprovider... is that open source? |
| 16:11.49 | Disconnect | android-security.. 5 members, invite only. sigh. |
| 16:11.59 | blau | 11-07 11:11:04.302: INFO/ActivityManager(57): Stopping service: com.android.providers.downloads/.DownloadService |
| 16:12.00 | Disconnect | applies anyway |
| 16:12.06 | jbq | Disconnect: check android-security-discuss |
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| 16:12.18 | Disconnect | ahh ok cool |
| 16:12.31 | Disconnect | hey check it out, already a member. :) |
| 16:12.35 | unix_lappy | Disconnect: i would wager that if anyone at google was discussing android security on an irc server it would be their own internal one. |
| 16:12.43 | Disconnect | unix_lappy: yah me too |
| 16:13.10 | blau | i wanna work for goog |
| 16:13.11 | blau | le |
| 16:13.17 | jbq | theCarpenter: I think that's the code that's protected by the INSTALL_PACKAGES and DELETE_PACKAGES permissions, which should be related to code that's in the open-source tree. |
| 16:14.03 | jbq | unix_lappy: actually, there's no reason to have private discussions about security design, in fact that would hurt security more than anything else. |
| 16:14.32 | jbq | unix_lappy: discussions about known security issues are likely to happen in private, to protect users. |
| 16:14.58 | Disconnect | has private discussions about security design on the g1, but thats probably with exactly the opposite goal :) |
| 16:15.01 | *** join/#android `vip (n=denied@m0b5e36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 16:17.30 | *** join/#android dd94300 (n=fdd001@host-208-68-238-61.biznesshosting.net) |
| 16:17.34 | jbq | Disconnect: while I hope that your goals are about your private amusement (as opposed to hurting other users), the reason why you have them private is the exact same one indeed. Discussing them in the open would be like playing poker and showing your cards to everyone at the table. |
| 16:17.43 | Disconnect | yah |
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| 16:18.54 | ahaberlacho | And showing your cards makes things more exciting! |
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| 16:19.05 | blau | stupid wakelocks and keyguards! |
| 16:21.04 | jbq | theCarpenter: from a quick grep (because I'm not familiar with that code at all), I'd suggest looking at installPackage() in frameworks/base/services/java/com/android/server/PackageManagerService.java |
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| 16:23.20 | jbq | blau: sorry, I missed your question. Yes, the download provider is open-source. http://git.source.android.com/?p=platform/packages/providers/DownloadProvider.git;a=summary |
| 16:23.46 | theCarpenter | jbq: i'll check it out, thanks |
| 16:23.50 | dd94300 | Does anybody know how to get read of this error: [INSTALL_FAILED_SHARED_USER_INCOMPATIBLE]? Trying to install app using ANT......... |
| 16:24.50 | jbq | I'm not an expert there, but I'd guess that you're trying to get a shared UID with a package that was signed with a different signature. |
| 16:24.59 | *** join/#android DannyB (n=dannyb@c-69-139-151-245.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 16:25.14 | jbq | (beyond that I know nothing about the signature process) |
| 16:27.05 | dd94300 | you are right. jbq...... |
| 16:27.35 | dd94300 | so where would i find keystore in SDK? anyone... |
| 16:28.09 | jbq | goes for breakfast |
| 16:31.48 | *** part/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@wg-d232118.dsl.fsu.edu) |
| 16:33.27 | `vip | http://androidcommunity.com/forums/f3/google-look-at-this-menu-seperated-6700/#post70599 |
| 16:33.34 | `vip | i like that |
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| 16:34.38 | marcone | is the idea that those labels at the bottom are buttons or something. If so, they're way too small. |
| 16:34.42 | theCarpenter | hmmm |
| 16:35.01 | theCarpenter | anyone have an idea of how many applications are currently in the marketplace? |
| 16:35.22 | theCarpenter | or, is there any way of finding out/ |
| 16:35.28 | marcone | just go to "all applications" and count them :) |
| 16:35.29 | `vip | marcone im guessing they're like dragable tabs |
| 16:35.35 | `vip | to open another slider maybe |
| 16:35.44 | theCarpenter | marcone: no phone mate. this is partially to convince the company to spring for phones ;) |
| 16:35.52 | blau | way too small i concur |
| 16:35.56 | blau | why not just directories? |
| 16:36.06 | blau | i think its just needless complicated |
| 16:36.34 | *** join/#android dglazkov (n=dglazkov@nat/google/x-6a3ee4e70d1fd207) |
| 16:36.36 | blau | i dont think people realise you can type on the screen |
| 16:37.06 | blau | to filter out |
| 16:37.31 | Disconnect | most people don't want to spend their lives opening and closing the thing watching it redraw.. |
| 16:37.58 | blau | theres too much animation! |
| 16:38.17 | blau | even long presses in gmail annoy me |
| 16:38.27 | blau | wayy too long for the default context menu |
| 16:38.33 | blau | but you can release your finger earlier and get it |
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| 16:42.01 | marcone | theCarpenter: somehow I doubt your company will be convinced by 5 tip-calculators and 3 flashlight apps ;) |
| 16:42.26 | theCarpenter | marcone: numbers, my friend! they are all that matter if used properly ;) |
| 16:42.35 | marcone | I'm kidding, of course, but there doesn't appear to be much business type software yet |
| 16:42.50 | theCarpenter | marcone: they (the numbers) just need to be correct ;) |
| 16:43.30 | blau | carpenter: the number can be as high as you want |
| 16:43.37 | blau | ill make as many apps as you need :) |
| 16:43.54 | theCarpenter | blau: maybe you could just tell me how many currently exist then? ;) :P |
| 16:44.07 | blau | more than 100! |
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| 16:47.59 | *** join/#android andyross (n=andy@static-71-245-107-194.ptldor.fios.verizon.net) |
| 16:48.21 | marcone | theCarpenter: I just scrolled through and counted about 220 apps |
| 16:48.29 | marcone | (approximately) |
| 16:49.01 | theCarpenter | marcone: thankies :) |
| 16:49.30 | theCarpenter | marcone: actually, not to doubt that number, but i heard someone say that all of the apps weren't actually listed in the All Apps view... (so ive heard) |
| 16:50.11 | marcone | well, then you can tell your company "AT LEAST 220 apps" :) |
| 16:50.47 | DannyB | yeah, we keep some apps secret |
| 16:50.49 | andyross | On the market? I thought there were more, actually. |
| 16:51.00 | DannyB | like the working email app |
| 16:51.04 | andyross | No doubt once payments are uncorked, the number will go up substantially. |
| 16:51.05 | DannyB | the auto-get-root app |
| 16:51.06 | DannyB | etc |
| 16:51.49 | theCarpenter | i'll just say "nearly 250 apps" |
| 16:51.52 | theCarpenter | that works i guess? |
| 16:51.55 | theCarpenter | goes back to work |
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| 16:53.00 | dd94300 | can i add more desktop screen, currently there are 3, is it even possible? |
| 16:53.15 | blau | not possible yet |
| 16:53.22 | blau | carpenter: i say over 200 |
| 16:53.43 | *** join/#android alansj (n=alansj@c-24-218-166-109.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 16:55.24 | vol | dd94300: duct tape 2 G1s together |
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| 16:56.08 | dd94300 | hahaha. i liked that idea , vol |
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| 17:01.51 | RyeBrye | Anynoe thought of writing an adb-FUSE that would let you use the sdcard over adb while the phone still has it mounted? |
| 17:02.12 | *** join/#android Poohba (n=rcampbel@63.215.212.242) |
| 17:02.43 | marcone | That would be kinda cool |
| 17:03.06 | *** join/#android tauno (n=tauntz@23.228.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee) |
| 17:03.08 | RyeBrye | Like Hannah Montana, adb-fuse would be the best of both worlds. |
| 17:03.16 | RyeBrye | needs to have his kids stop watching Disney Channel |
| 17:03.31 | theCarpenter | Please do not mention the unholiness that is Disney Channel here |
| 17:03.40 | theCarpenter | so... much... sound and noise.. .<explodes> |
| 17:03.54 | andyross | Or even better: export a USB network device from the phone and run samba on it. |
| 17:05.00 | blau | or an ftp server |
| 17:05.13 | blau | or NAS |
| 17:05.22 | blau | or jumanji! |
| 17:05.23 | theCarpenter | RyeBrye: If you don't mind, i'm bashing that quote. |
| 17:05.30 | RyeBrye | no problem :) |
| 17:05.35 | *** join/#android tethridge (n=tale@207.235.54.1) |
| 17:06.05 | andyross | The point being that host OS's will automatically connect a usb network device and discover a samba server, so you just plug it in and it "mounts", just like now. |
| 17:06.50 | ttuttle | nonono |
| 17:06.59 | ttuttle | please do not run samba on my phone.! |
| 17:07.23 | RyeBrye | I would think a fuse driver would not be hard. But that's because I've never tried to write one |
| 17:07.25 | *** join/#android eton (n=eton@ppp-58-8-7-222.revip2.asianet.co.th) |
| 17:07.30 | andyross | You'd be surprised how small samba is, actually. |
| 17:07.55 | ttuttle | I dislike it. |
| 17:08.02 | andyross | Motorola actually shipped it on my A780 for exactly that reason. The network device stuff was a mess. But the smbd was under a megabyte IIRC. |
| 17:08.15 | jasta | Samba is such a mess :) |
| 17:08.24 | jasta | my roommate hacks on it for his job |
| 17:08.33 | andatche | windows file sharing is a mess, why not just use NFS? :) |
| 17:08.46 | jasta | andatche: because NFS is the most tragically insecure network file system ever built |
| 17:09.06 | theCarpenter | it also fails to scale |
| 17:09.23 | andyross | And in this context, there's no discovery protocol. The advantage to samba isn't that it's a clean protocol (heh), it's that it's pervasively supported and dynamically discoverable. |
| 17:09.38 | ttuttle | It's a horrible idea. |
| 17:09.53 | andyross | And yet it works. Funny how those are sometimes in opposition. |
| 17:10.00 | jasta | andatche: smbd might be small in size, but it isn't light. |
| 17:10.01 | ttuttle | Will it work on my Linux box? |
| 17:10.10 | jasta | err andyross * |
| 17:10.38 | jasta | i cant imagine the battery would last long with that type of nonsense going on |
| 17:10.52 | andyross | The bottom line is that having to disable your sdcard to get to it from a PC is a misfeature and a problem. A smbd would avoid that, and provide the same user experience without the need for any special host software. I'm not aware of any other solutions that meet that criteria. |
| 17:10.59 | jbq | There are people at Google who know the samba implementation, so I'm sure that if we wanted to go in that direction we could ask for their help. |
| 17:11.10 | joakime | wispers "bonjour" and quietly slinks away ... |
| 17:11.19 | andyross | My A780 had a smbd running out of the box, and lasted for three days at a time... |
| 17:12.03 | jasta | andyross: i can't help but notice that you sit in here dreaming up wild ideas all day long, but are you actually going to do anything interesting with Android? |
| 17:12.05 | blount | you had an A780? wow |
| 17:12.13 | ttuttle | considers samba "special host software". I don't want to use a network filesystem to access a usb storage device. |
| 17:12.14 | blount | I didn't know they sold more than five of those... |
| 17:12.20 | ttuttle | blount: lol |
| 17:12.58 | andyross | jasta: Had a few dozen hits on the compiler wrapper that got posted yesterday. Does that count? Or am I not allowed to speak? Seriously: what's with the ad hominem? |
| 17:13.08 | jbq | as far as I now the hardest hurdle to go the samba route is the lower-level stuff (e.g. making a device look like a USB-to-ethernet adapter in a way that doesn't bluescreen windows). |
| 17:13.30 | thoraxe | why do you need samba? so you can access crap over the wifi? |
| 17:13.57 | jasta | andyross: i'm just curious if you actually _do_ anything. |
| 17:14.05 | jbq | it doesn't have to be samba, it could also be nfs, http, ftp... |
| 17:14.06 | thoraxe | i don't actually do anything |
| 17:14.16 | thoraxe | run httpd on your phone? |
| 17:14.32 | jbq | thoraxe: many phones already do, actually. |
| 17:14.38 | thoraxe | what the hell for? |
| 17:14.47 | jbq | for proxy-initiated OMA push. |
| 17:14.50 | jasta | thoraxe: my project uses a light-weight HTTP server, although that is because of limitations in Android. |
| 17:14.53 | thoraxe | interesting |
| 17:14.59 | thoraxe | makes sense though! |
| 17:15.13 | thoraxe | what would be totally awesome is a vpn client |
| 17:15.14 | thoraxe | :P |
| 17:15.17 | andyross | jasta: And if I answered "no", what would your response be? Are only people who "do" things allowed to speak? Just ignore me if you don't want to hear me. I just don't understand the hostility... |
| 17:15.36 | jasta | andyross: I said I was curious, that is all. |
| 17:15.50 | thoraxe | typically hostitlity comes when those with ideas think their ideas are good ideas and those who do not think their ideas are good decide to say so :) |
| 17:16.09 | thoraxe | but since i have no ideas of my own, i just babble |
| 17:16.22 | Chainfire | heh, does the G1 support RNDIS for USB ? |
| 17:16.44 | jbq | the good news is that once you have an IP link over USB (e.g. by faking ethernet over USB, but you could also look at serial, parallel, and even SCSI), you can run all those protocols at the same time. |
| 17:17.34 | jbq | one funny thought was to make android look like a USB modem, and to ppp into it. |
| 17:17.54 | jasta | thats how a lot of Windows Mobile phones work |
| 17:17.55 | RyeBrye | jbq - usb network adapter is an interesting approach |
| 17:17.59 | jasta | either over bluetooth or usb |
| 17:18.57 | RyeBrye | I don't know the limitations of the USB stuff at the low level, but I presume it would be extremely difficult / impossible for the device to present itself as a USB hub with 2 devices on it? I.e. a network adapter and another device? |
| 17:19.37 | *** join/#android SjB (n=steve@nexus.wireless.uwo.ca) |
| 17:19.46 | andyross | Pretty sure hub support is in the usb gadget code, but I don't know the kernel side. |
| 17:19.48 | RyeBrye | ignoring practicality for a second - making present itself as a USB keyboard and a USB network device simultaneously would be beyond the limits of the hardware? I'm not a USB expert |
| 17:19.53 | jbq | RyeBrye: no, that's actually very possible, but not necessary: a single USB device can expose multiple interfaces. |
| 17:19.55 | alansj | any current consensus about the relative wisdom of flashing boot vs. recovery when trying out new images? |
| 17:20.23 | jbq | RyeBrye: in fact the G1 exposes itself both as an ADB device *and* as a mass-storage device. |
| 17:20.51 | alansj | my sense is you could flash boot, see if it works, and always recover |
| 17:21.31 | alansj | however, if you flash recovery then all you can do is boot to the recovery tool (not see if _everything_ is working) before deciding to flash boot |
| 17:22.18 | RyeBrye | alansj - whichver one makes more sense to do for you is what you should do... but before you do anything you must accept this statement: |
| 17:22.32 | *** join/#android jexe_ (n=jesseboy@static-64-115-213-78.isp.broadviewnet.net) |
| 17:22.55 | RyeBrye | "If I brick my phone, I will not try to defraud the store by returning it." |
| 17:23.17 | alansj | yes of course |
| 17:24.18 | RyeBrye | If we prove that we are good boys and girls, maybe T-mobile / HTC will realize the sky does not fall when users have low-level access... |
| 17:24.50 | RyeBrye | had they left fastboot / the HTC bootloader in a functional state, it would be very difficult to brick the phone |
| 17:24.58 | andyross | Problem is that when a phone company realizes something "doesn't" happen, they take no action. :( |
| 17:25.30 | DarkriftX | yeah, i dont see them doing us any favors |
| 17:25.38 | DarkriftX | we need to get a man inside google |
| 17:25.43 | DarkriftX | looks around crookedly |
| 17:26.07 | alansj | I do think that flashing boot makes more sense than flashing recovery, fwiw |
| 17:26.21 | DarkriftX | its a neverending arguement, there are reasons for both |
| 17:26.35 | alansj | actually, I don't know what the reasons are for recovery |
| 17:26.41 | andatche | alansj: you have a link to anywhere I can read a bit about flashing? |
| 17:26.45 | RyeBrye | so that you can recover with your own code |
| 17:26.49 | alansj | http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=442831 |
| 17:26.50 | jbq | RyeBrye: the sad part (and the reason why you're walking a fine line right now) is that the risk of bricking a phone would actually be lower if the phones were open. |
| 17:27.04 | RyeBrye | jbq - yes, you are absolutely correct |
| 17:27.11 | DarkriftX | like i said last night, messign with boot first is like saying you would rather test your edits on your main computer then you would on your recovery disk... |
| 17:27.15 | alansj | RyeBrye: right, but I'd rather test my own code in an environment where I can recover to factory before putting my own code into recovery |
| 17:27.23 | DarkriftX | if you kill your recovery, you have a working phone still |
| 17:27.57 | RyeBrye | alansj - for now, your argument makes sense... but if you upgrade to a version that by default has the ability to gain root removed - and you have not flashed your recovery, you will be unable to flash back to an older version |
| 17:27.58 | alansj | yeah, but my point is that you don't know you've killed recovery for sure until you have already recovered and overwritten boot |
| 17:28.25 | alansj | RyeBrye: yes, ultimately you probably want to flash them both... but my argument is to start with boot to make sure it works |
| 17:28.28 | jbq | DarkriftX: but then you really prevent new "official" updates, including real security holes (and I don't mean patching local root exploits, I mean situations where a malicious app or a malicious site really hurts you). |
| 17:29.03 | RyeBrye | Yeah, I'm planning to still apply official updates - only my own special flavor of them |
| 17:30.05 | DarkriftX | so RyeBrye did you find out anytihng about that guys images? |
| 17:30.31 | RyeBrye | DarkriftX - not yet, I'll go check and see if he posted his patches... what he is doing sounds plausible |
| 17:30.37 | alansj | hey, small annoyance question: when I mount my sdcard in os x, then unmount it, /sdcard does not reappear in adb shell... is there some way to tell the phone that I want the sdcard re-mounted without unplugging/replugging |
| 17:30.54 | marcone | no |
| 17:30.56 | alansj | (that is, re-mounted on the phone, not os x) |
| 17:32.26 | ali1234 | so anybody found the jtag pins yet? ;) |
| 17:33.11 | Poohba | In my contacts I have a lot of numbers. There should be names attached but they are just numbers. When I click on one I see there is an Organization name "Business" but why doesn't that show? In outlook I didn't have the businesses with "names" just Business |
| 17:33.31 | RyeBrye | ali1234 - no... there is a 'void' sticker on the screw on my phone which acts like kryptonite to superhackers! ;) |
| 17:34.31 | DarkriftX | nothing useful on that page RyeBrye |
| 17:34.33 | *** join/#android blau (n=blau@c-68-37-236-163.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 17:34.38 | blau | grrr at users |
| 17:35.06 | *** join/#android SjB (n=steve@nexus.wireless.uwo.ca) |
| 17:35.34 | RyeBrye | DarkriftX - he posted his response - where he explained all of what he did. What he did makes sense - I'll still build my own stuff just because I have the whole build set up already - but his approaches seem reasonable. The fact that he didn't modify the recovery.img signficantly is good |
| 17:36.06 | Poohba | The Interactive Session yesteday wasn't helpful. Guess it was just to gather information |
| 17:36.24 | Poohba | hopefully they will do something better with the battery |
| 17:36.27 | DarkriftX | but what i read didnt seem like he made any changes that would cause what he says happens |
| 17:36.33 | alansj | You only have to do the build if you want to sign your own stuff, as I understand it. I'm working on creating my own boot.img which I'll just flash directly. |
| 17:36.41 | DarkriftX | which changes allows it to flash resigned images? |
| 17:36.47 | Poohba | they should also allow you to save programs to sd card bc i'm running out of room |
| 17:37.08 | RyeBrye | DarkriftX - rebuilding the recovery.img from the open source tree does that - it builds a recovery.img that only accepts stuff signed with the testkeys provided in the build |
| 17:37.17 | DarkriftX | The only change I made was to make it print out "using test keys" when it runs, just to make it easy to tell if it's running. |
| 17:37.20 | DarkriftX | oh, i c |
| 17:37.49 | RyeBrye | the keys it looks for are in an included 'keys.inc' file which gets generated in the build and then compiled into the recovery image |
| 17:37.56 | DarkriftX | so you think his files are good? others tried them and seems to be working |
| 17:37.58 | Poohba | and why can't you attach anything to an email other than pictures? What if I want to attach a file? Or even a sound clip. How do I attach my resume? |
| 17:38.10 | alansj | RyeBrye: where does the keys.inc file live? somewhere in the filesystem? |
| 17:38.35 | RyeBrye | alansj - no, on the phone it is embedded into the recovery.img - on the build system it just gets built as an intermediate file |
| 17:38.37 | jbq | Poohba: there was an explicit requirement to only be able to attach pictures. |
| 17:38.56 | RyeBrye | jbq - was this from T-mobile? |
| 17:38.59 | thoraxe | RyeBrye: the customer service agent at t-mobile didn't know what the void sticker waws for |
| 17:39.13 | jbq | RyeBrye: at my level I don't have visibility about the source of the requirements. |
| 17:39.21 | RyeBrye | Gotcha |
| 17:39.36 | RyeBrye | jbq: try typing into your computer as it boots, it might escalate your privileges ;) |
| 17:40.03 | RyeBrye | thoraxe: I think the sticker on the screw shows that the screw doesn't return anything after it runs....? |
| 17:40.12 | alansj | RyeBrye: right, but embedded where? I don't see it in the ramdisk. |
| 17:40.24 | jbq | It'd be good in the future if the discussions about such requirements could also happen "in the open" (as long as there's nothing confidential in them, of course). |
| 17:40.28 | RyeBrye | alansj - it gets compiled in. It's not read as a file. |
| 17:40.35 | alansj | into the kernel? |
| 17:41.02 | alansj | sorry to be slow... |
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| 17:41.19 | RyeBrye | alansj - dunno, haven't looked into it much, but it looks like it just creates a static array of numbers in the binary of the recovery executable... look in bootloader.c or something on the /recovery directory |
| 17:41.26 | Ramblurr | is it possible to access another activity's preferences? |
| 17:41.31 | andyross | And explicit requirement to ... *only* ... attach picture? :) Carriers... |
| 17:41.59 | RyeBrye | How is it determined that it is ONLY a picture? "Here's my picture of my dog... dog.zip.jpg" ? |
| 17:42.03 | Ramblurr | err nvm. preferences are application wide |
| 17:42.22 | andyross | Might have been a security worry. Some executive got burned once opening a zip file in an email and declared that he'd fix this right now. :) |
| 17:42.38 | alansj | RyeBrye: hm, ok. The only things in the recovery image are a kernel and a cpio'ed filesystem. |
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| 17:43.03 | jbq | RyeBrye: hmmm, good point actually. It does go through the image picker, but I don't know what'd happen if you installed your own image picker and returned other types of files. |
| 17:43.24 | andyross | FWIW, is there anything someone's dying to do with the kernel? It seems like the boot kernel is reasonably well-configured already. |
| 17:44.00 | alansj | yeah, the kernel is fine... what we want to do is change the stuff in the root filesystem... like init.rc |
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| 17:44.27 | andyross | Right, but you can do that post-boot via just writing to /system, for the most part. |
| 17:44.34 | RyeBrye | alansj - if you have a copy of the modified recovery image, I can pastebin the keys.inc that gets built as part of the build so you can scan through to see where the various values go |
| 17:44.49 | RyeBrye | alansj - I obviously don't have the keys.inc for the production ota-keys build |
| 17:44.53 | alansj | no, you can't because it's a ramdisk that gets loaded at boot which replaces init.rc anda few other things |
| 17:45.36 | andyross | Can you be more specific? I know rootfs isn't persistent, but nonetheless there *is* an init script run out of /system, and pretty much anything you want to do could be done there. |
| 17:45.47 | alansj | init.trout.rc, default.prop, init.rc, logo.rle, init.goldfish.rc, sbin/adbd |
| 17:46.07 | RyeBrye | yeah, replacing the logo would be nice |
| 17:46.21 | andyross | Those aren't in the initrd, though. They're in a read-only filesystem mounted at /system. (OK, logo is definitely an example) |
| 17:46.25 | alansj | yeah, that's the one I'm really shooting for |
| 17:46.48 | alansj | actually, turning off the logo, which is set in init.rc (which I think would show a boot up sequence) |
| 17:47.26 | RyeBrye | alansj: http://pastebin.com/m7dfbc989 - that is the keys.inc for the test keys build |
| 17:47.29 | alansj | thx |
| 17:47.56 | jasta | raises an eyebrow |
| 17:48.04 | KNY | hey, anyone around that has used KeyListeners (via someView.setKeyListener())? |
| 17:48.09 | jasta | i was just reading xda-developers and saw your posts RyeBrye :) |
| 17:48.14 | alansj | andyross: where do you see those files in system/ ? |
| 17:48.55 | alansj | because they are definitely in the boot.img ramdisk, and they sit in the root dir |
| 17:49.18 | DarkriftX | shit |
| 17:49.25 | DarkriftX | i cant even upload a friggen file to my ftp |
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| 17:49.43 | andyross | Ah, indeed, you're right. I swore they were in /system/etc. |
| 17:50.22 | alansj | cool, glad I'm not losing my mind |
| 17:53.27 | jasta | hehe, there are people in the xda-developers forums that are actually wanting to get Windows Mobile running on the G1 |
| 17:53.42 | spikebike | ew |
| 17:53.49 | jasta | mind boggling :) |
| 17:53.51 | spikebike | would be amusing to trade |
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| 17:54.08 | spikebike | they can run wm on my g1 if I can get one of the nicer HTCs ;-) |
| 17:54.41 | gdsx | spikebike: WM as in windowmaker? |
| 17:54.55 | gdsx | why? :o) |
| 17:55.20 | androoid | android rooools!! |
| 17:55.30 | michaelnovakjr | jasta, they are probably paid by microsoft to troll around leaving bad comments everywhere |
| 17:55.31 | spikebike | windows mobile |
| 17:55.49 | tauno | because when someone asks them afterwards.. "why?!".. they can answer with "beacause I CAN!! bwahahahaaa.." |
| 17:56.04 | spikebike | android on the touch HD or something |
| 17:56.32 | DarkriftX | "because the g1 is not useful right now because nothing works so i want wm on it" |
| 17:56.37 | DarkriftX | thats the default answer i see |
| 17:56.53 | KNY | doesn't WM not support capacitve screens? |
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| 17:57.21 | ttuttle | why would you want a g1 if you want to run wm? |
| 17:57.29 | zhobbs | how to I upgrade an app via adb? |
| 17:57.32 | spikebike | dunno |
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| 17:57.35 | spikebike | compass? |
| 17:57.42 | zhobbs | adb install gives error that it already exists |
| 17:57.44 | KNY | zhobbs, adb install -r App.apk |
| 17:57.52 | KNY | -r does a reinstall, while keeping the data |
| 17:58.18 | zhobbs | KNY: great, thanks |
| 17:58.24 | KNY | no problem |
| 18:01.45 | DarkriftX | hrmmmm |
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| 18:02.08 | thoraxe | because nothing works? |
| 18:02.13 | thoraxe | everything works as far as i can tell |
| 18:02.19 | thoraxe | some parts of things are broken, but quickly being fixed |
| 18:03.09 | spikebike | heh |
| 18:03.15 | spikebike | well I suspect the big apps are all missing |
| 18:03.30 | RyeBrye | plus.. if you put WM on the the thing, you'd have to somehow rub off the "with Google" on the back and replace it with something else |
| 18:04.00 | fadden | RyeBrye: scale down an "I'm with stupid" T-Shirt and paste it on |
| 18:04.02 | spikebike | heh, dunno |
| 18:04.14 | spikebike | google does provide some of the most popular wm apps |
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| 18:07.43 | thoraxe | spikebike: define "big apps" ? |
| 18:07.44 | thoraxe | outlook? |
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| 18:10.15 | spikebike | outlook, skype, turn by turn navigation, ability to edit word/excel docs |
| 18:10.24 | spikebike | and of course exchange integration |
| 18:10.27 | spikebike | VPN |
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| 18:13.15 | RyeBrye | I really hope TomTom comes out on Android |
| 18:16.18 | offby1 | I just noticed that the little satellite icon is visible on my screen, implying that some app is using the GPS. I'd like to make that stop, since the GPS is said to drain my battery quickly. But I cannot figure out which app is using it, and even if I could, I'm not sure how to stop an app. What should I do? |
| 18:16.33 | RyeBrye | ... although it is usually pretty pricey (TomTom Navigator 6 is $150) |
| 18:16.39 | vol | turn off gps in settings |
| 18:16.51 | vol | hold down the home key and see what's running |
| 18:16.52 | offby1 | oh crap, the phone just rebooted |
| 18:16.57 | vol | (gmaps?) |
| 18:17.00 | vol | ... :\ |
| 18:17.04 | vol | well, that solves it |
| 18:17.10 | alansj | RyeBrye: I lied... the recovery image has a few extra files including sbin/recovery which presumably is where those keys are compiled in |
| 18:17.15 | offby1 | vol: ah, holding down the home key tells me what's running? I had thought it merely displayed a list of recently-access apps. |
| 18:17.23 | RyeBrye | alansj - ok, that makes sense |
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| 18:17.27 | vol | well, it does. |
| 18:17.33 | offby1 | does which? |
| 18:17.39 | cbeust_ | offby1: you are correct, it doesn't show you all the processes |
| 18:17.40 | vol | what you said |
| 18:17.52 | offby1 | but I said two different things :) |
| 18:18.02 | offby1 | "tells me what's running" and "displayed a list of recently-accessed apps" |
| 18:18.20 | offby1 | I assume those are not always the same list |
| 18:18.20 | cbeust_ | There is no such thing as "applications that are running" |
| 18:18.36 | cbeust_ | Applications that are not in the foreground can be at varied stages in the lifecycle |
| 18:18.37 | jasta | well, it's not useful anyway hehe |
| 18:18.45 | offby1 | cbeust_: ah, I didn't know that |
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| 18:19.08 | cbeust_ | but they are not running, services might be, though |
| 18:19.40 | offby1 | interesting -- it didn't reboot, exactly ... the "Uptime" thing shows a nice big number, and it only displayed the "Android" logo briefly, as opposed to when it reboots, it displays it for almost a minute (and displays some other logo too). Weird weird weird. |
| 18:19.41 | jasta | cbeust_: a big complaint i seem to get often is "how do i kill apps i dont use anymore? i don't want my phone to slow down." |
| 18:19.44 | jasta | i just chuckle :) |
| 18:20.08 | offby1 | jasta: that's pretty much exactly my question :-| |
| 18:20.10 | cbeust_ | jasta: yeah it's a common question, it's not that easy to explain, unfortunately |
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| 18:20.26 | cbeust_ | and users don't like to hear "don't worry, the system knows how to handle this better than you" |
| 18:20.32 | offby1 | It may be an _ignorant_ question, but you can understand the motivation behind it |
| 18:20.37 | andyross | It's not that insane. An application might be spinning in the background, the framework can't prevent that except by killing it, which isn't user-visible. |
| 18:20.42 | cbeust_ | offby1: Absolutely |
| 18:21.39 | jbq | The key is that killing a process that's currently hosting an app doesn't stop the app from restarting a few seconds later. In fact, if you kill a process that hosts a running service, the system will spawn a new process to restart the service automatically. |
| 18:22.05 | *** join/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@wg-d232118.dsl.fsu.edu) |
| 18:22.56 | alansj | the moment of truth... about to reboot with a flashed boot image |
| 18:23.29 | jasta | cbeust_: it's hard for people in general to appreciate, i think. it takes even programmers a long time to realize that the compiler actually knows better than you. |
| 18:23.47 | jasta | (for example) |
| 18:23.56 | cbeust_ | jasta: agreed, and the desire to kill processes is ingrained in computer users, it's hard to shake off |
| 18:23.58 | jasta | stupid humans :) |
| 18:25.03 | alansj | oh boy, did something wrong... infinite reboot loop with the G1 logo... time for restore |
| 18:25.23 | wastrel | hi |
| 18:25.27 | cbeust_ | alansj: good luck :) |
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| 18:26.02 | ionstorm | so restore is like an update via update.zip? |
| 18:26.06 | jbq | That being said, it'd be good if the system could also automatically detect processes that don't host a running service or a visible activity but are using CPU time and gently kill them. |
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| 18:26.53 | DarkriftX | is rc30 out yet? |
| 18:27.52 | mowgli | dims: do you still have the callnative example hosted somewhere? your wordpress link is not active |
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| 18:28.49 | dims | mowgli, lost all of it by mistake :( |
| 18:28.50 | alansj | ionstorm: yes basically |
| 18:28.54 | offby1 | jbq: what you just said, about the system restarting the service, reminds me of the way Erlang stuff works ... |
| 18:29.08 | mowgli | hmm.. nice examples... too bad it was lost |
| 18:29.12 | blau | users make me cry |
| 18:29.14 | rreck | my phone is not able to locate where i am, is this a common thing? |
| 18:29.30 | offby1 | DarkriftX: good question. I wonder if there's some place where we can monitor upcoming releases etc. |
| 18:29.39 | offby1 | rreck: probably not too uncommon. Are you indoors? |
| 18:29.52 | offby1 | it's just an ordinary gps receiver, as far as I know; they have trouble if they can't "see" the sky |
| 18:29.54 | rreck | i was indoors, then went outside and it was the same |
| 18:30.05 | offby1 | do you have GPS turned on? I think it's off by default. |
| 18:30.14 | rreck | ok thanks i will check that |
| 18:30.22 | blau | you dont need gps usually though |
| 18:30.31 | cbeust_ | offby1: restarting processes automatically not exclusive to Erlang (and you still need to do it by hand in Erlang) |
| 18:30.34 | blau | itll be inaccurate but you can usually do it based on towers |
| 18:31.27 | offby1 | cbeust_: Erlang allows you to create "supervisor" processes, which automatically restart their children if needed. |
| 18:31.45 | cbeust_ | offby1: I know, but you still need to organize that graph yourself |
| 18:32.58 | andyross | To be fair, that's not really erlang's magic though. It's the idea that an immutable message to a server process and a pure functional call are the same thing. |
| 18:33.05 | alansj | hm, anybody done a recovery before? I seem to be not getting all the way there. |
| 18:33.44 | alansj | I boot into recovery tool, ALT+W, "Formatting DATA, CACHE, Data wipe complete" but when I reboot from there I'm still stuck in infinite reboot |
| 18:34.08 | jbq | Sounds like you're now the proud owner of a G1-shape brick. |
| 18:34.14 | alansj | indeed |
| 18:35.21 | DarkriftX | offby1, when it does come out ill add the file and whatever details i can to my wiki, which is why i was asking. i want to keep that up to date |
| 18:35.28 | DarkriftX | heads to work |
| 18:35.30 | DarkriftX | later all |
| 18:35.39 | DarkriftX | oh, and how do i read the channel logs? |
| 18:36.07 | alansj | hey, before you go have you done a recovery before? |
| 18:36.18 | DarkriftX | i dont have a g1 yet alansj :( |
| 18:36.24 | alansj | boo |
| 18:36.31 | DarkriftX | and depending on how rc30 acts, i might not get one |
| 18:36.36 | alansj | well at the moment I don't have one either |
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| 18:36.45 | DarkriftX | unless i can find a rc19/29 for sale somewhere |
| 18:36.57 | DarkriftX | romainguy, how do i view the logs? |
| 18:37.01 | DarkriftX | channel logs* |
| 18:37.15 | romainguy_ | no idea, ask morrildl |
| 18:37.40 | DarkriftX | morrildl!! you around? |
| 18:37.45 | gdsx | ~logs |
| 18:37.46 | infobot | All conversations are logged to http://ibot.rikers.org/channel, where "channel" is replaced by the URL-encoded channel name, such as %23freenode for #freenode. Lines starting with spaces are not logged. |
| 18:37.50 | DarkriftX | ooooh, nice |
| 18:38.05 | jbailey | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:38.17 | blau | anyone play around with quicklaunch settings? |
| 18:38.34 | vol | hmmm. |
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| 18:38.47 | fadden | hmmm. |
| 18:38.52 | DarkriftX | damn, not real time? |
| 18:39.26 | DarkriftX | i cant use irc at work, and wanted to be able to keep up with the convo while gone :( |
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| 18:40.55 | Dougie187 | you could always log it yourself at home |
| 18:40.56 | fadden | http://java.freenode.net/ |
| 18:41.36 | DarkriftX | thx fadden but if i can type into it i cant use it |
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| 18:41.47 | DarkriftX | we have credit card info all over and our screens are monitored |
| 18:41.59 | DarkriftX | anything we could paste cc numbers into that leaves the company is dissalowed |
| 18:42.01 | Dougie187 | you should just leave an irc open at home |
| 18:42.06 | DarkriftX | disallowed |
| 18:42.09 | blau | irc on ur g1 |
| 18:42.19 | DarkriftX | i do Dougie187 just need to make a way to read the real time logs while at work lol |
| 18:42.31 | michaelnovakjr | DarkriftX: your G1 :) |
| 18:42.39 | Dougie187 | you could have it log them at home, and then put it on a webserver or something |
| 18:42.56 | DarkriftX | no phones/mp3 players allowed on the "floor' |
| 18:43.10 | DarkriftX | yeah Dougie187 ill prob set that up tomorrow |
| 18:43.13 | andyross | Sounds like a great career choice :) |
| 18:43.28 | Dougie187 | what do you do? |
| 18:43.30 | Dougie187 | Stock broker? |
| 18:43.32 | DarkriftX | lol |
| 18:43.44 | rreck | where can i learn how to use the zoom in/out thing? |
| 18:43.44 | DarkriftX | tier 3 hosting support at godaddy |
| 18:44.10 | DarkriftX | I sell dedicated servers and assist with them all day :S |
| 18:44.25 | DarkriftX | and the occasional "here is your pop server for outlook" |
| 18:44.35 | blau | rreck: what do you mean? |
| 18:44.39 | Dougie187 | sounds like fun |
| 18:44.42 | DarkriftX | goes to work now |
| 18:44.43 | DarkriftX | later all |
| 18:44.47 | Dougie187 | bye |
| 18:45.04 | rreck | blau: stuff i just got this and am having trouble getting the hang of it |
| 18:45.13 | rreck | blau: simple stuff i mean |
| 18:48.29 | vol | DarkriftX: do you have a notepad |
| 18:48.30 | vol | like |
| 18:48.31 | vol | pencil and paper |
| 18:48.42 | vol | because I suspect you could get CC numbers that way too |
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| 18:54.36 | *** join/#android savid (n=savid@66.226.226.34) |
| 18:55.07 | savid | Is there a way to install android market on the android emulator? |
| 18:55.30 | savid | I'm basically wanting to try out some apps.. trying to decide if I should get the G1 :-) |
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| 18:57.10 | blau | not that i know of |
| 18:57.13 | blau | savid, get a g1 |
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| 18:57.44 | andyross | You could probably get a T-Mobile store to give you a demo and let you try some market apps. |
| 18:57.52 | savid | blau, heh, yeah, I'm pretty tempted to. I'm currently under helio contract :-( though I'm tempted to just pay the etf |
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| 18:59.35 | jt436 | what is a good name for a fake soft keyboard? I need something a bit shorter. |
| 18:59.44 | blau | fake? |
| 18:59.50 | blau | Fsk! |
| 19:00.07 | jt436 | well its fake since it for a single app not the whole platform |
| 19:00.20 | blau | ahh |
| 19:02.03 | blau | oh no, my first non reproducable bug for my finance app :( |
| 19:02.42 | vol | : ( |
| 19:02.45 | vol | blau: what is your app? |
| 19:03.43 | blau | dgMoney is the one im talking about, but I made SMS Screen Alert too |
| 19:04.35 | spikebike | jt thumbs |
| 19:04.41 | blau | and i got one email from someone that i really dont understand what they want |
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| 19:05.07 | vol | Ah, nevermind, I was hoping you were the guy from budgetdroid. |
| 19:06.00 | blau | nah |
| 19:06.05 | blau | like budget droid better? |
| 19:06.21 | vol | I haven't tried dgMoney yet |
| 19:06.34 | vol | I'm just using it to keep track of where the hell I'm spending all my money |
| 19:06.38 | vol | because it feels like I ought to have more : ( |
| 19:07.51 | cbeust_ | saw the latest South Park episode which came out 24 hours after the election and yet contained material that happened on election night |
| 19:08.08 | blau | from one email, "my one recommendation would be to enable ability to edit an entry, instead of deleting and rentering." |
| 19:08.16 | thoraxe | jt436: farkboard |
| 19:08.22 | blau | i feel like its so obvious how to edit |
| 19:08.25 | blau | you just click the item |
| 19:08.28 | savid | ugh.. my early termination fee for Helio is a whopping $175... should I wait a whole year? decisions, decisions.... I am kindof interested in what motorola's device is going to look like... |
| 19:08.43 | thoraxe | savid: ask them if they can not charge you the termination fee |
| 19:08.47 | blau | deleting and recreating a new item are so much harder |
| 19:09.00 | blau | that i dont see how someone could not edit but still know how to delete |
| 19:09.04 | yakischloba | Doesn't the current release on the G1 support a normal bluetooth headset profile or whatever? |
| 19:09.17 | brocktice | yakischloba: should |
| 19:09.22 | brocktice | Works for me |
| 19:09.28 | brocktice | No A2DP though :( |
| 19:09.31 | blau | i have no bluetooh problems yet |
| 19:09.35 | yakischloba | ahh there it is. I was just being stupid with my headset, didnt have it in discoverable. |
| 19:09.39 | savid | thoraxe, seriously? you think that just by asking them to not charge me I can get out of it? Has anyone been able to do that? |
| 19:09.52 | brocktice | savid: Stranger things have happened |
| 19:09.54 | brocktice | Can't hurt to ask |
| 19:10.14 | savid | heh, true |
| 19:10.38 | blau | i bought the g1 with full intentions to pay etf if sprint ever gets an android phone |
| 19:10.58 | thoraxe | savid: that's what t-mobile did for me when i had to cancel my sidekick line |
| 19:11.11 | thoraxe | savid: they couldn't *waive* the fee, but they said they could just not charge it |
| 19:11.19 | yakischloba | so whenever the bt headset is connected, call audio goes through it by default? |
| 19:11.22 | thoraxe | it's worth an ask |
| 19:11.36 | savid | true, true... |
| 19:11.41 | thoraxe | jt436: are you really making a soft keyboard? |
| 19:12.12 | thoraxe | jt436: i would love a t9 soft keyboard |
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| 19:13.08 | cbeust_ | A t9 keyboard? |
| 19:14.50 | jt436 | thoraxe: yeah i need to make a soft keyboard |
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| 19:15.23 | pjv | Is anyone (external or from Google) planning to come to FOSDEM 7/8 february 2009 in Brussels? |
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| 19:18.51 | savid | one thing I was curious about when looking at the G1 @ the tmo store is, does the screen only go landscape when you open the keyboard? Or is it sensitive to the accelerometer? |
| 19:19.05 | cbeust_ | savid: only when you open the keyboard |
| 19:19.11 | pjv | savid, depends on the apps |
| 19:19.15 | savid | hmm |
| 19:19.20 | brocktice | Yes, some apps use it |
| 19:19.27 | savid | guess that makes sense |
| 19:19.28 | brocktice | I guess their research found that people preferred that it was linked to the flip |
| 19:19.41 | brocktice | But for instance, the video player on the market uses the accelerometer |
| 19:19.44 | brocktice | even when the flip is not open |
| 19:19.47 | cbeust_ | brocktice: our research showed that automatically flipping the screen gets it wrong very often |
| 19:19.47 | pjv | most of the apps currently use the keyboard as a trigger, some use the accelerometer, but it could be either one or both |
| 19:20.08 | pjv | savid, the video app uses the accelerometer I think |
| 19:20.29 | savid | cool. I'm assuming the photo viewer would as well? |
| 19:20.29 | pjv | brocktice: whoops |
| 19:20.47 | brocktice | no worries |
| 19:21.19 | pjv | savid:no idea, but if you adapt it and make it do it, it will :-) |
| 19:21.27 | brocktice | actually I think with the photo viewer the's an option on the menu to flip it |
| 19:21.32 | brocktice | but it's not automatic |
| 19:21.38 | savid | pjv, very good pint! |
| 19:21.48 | savid | s/pint/point/ |
| 19:21.50 | brocktice | It does seem to record the orientation in the EXIF data when you take photos, though |
| 19:21.54 | savid | hehe |
| 19:22.32 | cbeust_ | Applications can force the screen to flip mode (the camera does) |
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| 19:29.25 | summatusmentis | has the jailbreak hack been patched yet? |
| 19:30.01 | alansj | hooray, g1 un-bricked |
| 19:30.24 | benley | how'd you brick it? |
| 19:30.32 | alansj | flashing a new boot image |
| 19:30.40 | alansj | which apparently wasn't properly created |
| 19:30.59 | vol | oops |
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| 19:32.32 | alansj | yeah, but it's pretty easy to re-apply the stock RC29 (as long as you haven't also screwed up the recovery image) |
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| 19:32.50 | spikebike | so noted, very good to know, that gives me hope |
| 19:33.30 | thoraxe | i still haven't gotten rc9 |
| 19:33.31 | thoraxe | 29 |
| 19:33.45 | andyross | alansj: What was the magic to getting recovery to work? |
| 19:33.47 | alansj | you can download it yourself and force it |
| 19:33.49 | thoraxe | i got it on my first device but that device broke, and i've had the replacement for 24+hrs |
| 19:34.33 | alansj | the magic was using the right command... I didn't want to do alt+W after all (that just wipes /data and /cache). Instead, you put the update on the sd card, name it update.zip, and then from the recovery menu hit alt+S |
| 19:34.56 | alansj | so, I accidentally deleted all my user data, but nothing important was there anyway |
| 19:35.12 | alansj | I'm just annoyed that the boot.img I created didn't work |
| 19:35.21 | jimp | I have to stop and think every time I see the "Mount or Unmount" dialog for USB storage. |
| 19:35.28 | tmzt | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:35.29 | jimp | It's totally backwards. |
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| 19:36.02 | andyross | jimp: It refers to "mount on the PC as a filesystem". But yeah, it really should be "Connect", or "Activate" or something. |
| 19:36.18 | jimp | andyross: Yeah, but that makes no sense, clicking that button doesn't cause it to mount on the PC. |
| 19:36.40 | jimp | It just causes the android to unmount locally and to expose the device via mass storage |
| 19:36.52 | jimp | It's up to the host if it wants to mount it over USB |
| 19:37.07 | andyross | Well, right. It causes it to appear as a storage device, which gets picked up by the automounter logic. But the net effect to someone plugging it in is to see a new filesystem on their computer. |
| 19:37.46 | jimp | I know how it works, I just can't help stumbling over the logic each time -- "click mount to unmount /sdcard, click unmount to mount /sdcard... got it!" |
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| 19:39.17 | dream_kill | anyone compiled the msm-htc-2.6.25 kernel and used on the g1 ? |
| 19:39.21 | dream_kill | did worked ok ? |
| 19:41.14 | ITechJunkie | dream_kill: what is that? |
| 19:41.34 | dream_kill | the kernel |
| 19:41.46 | ITechJunkie | the orginal kernel? |
| 19:42.01 | dream_kill | is in the repo on the g1 |
| 19:42.04 | spikebike | jimp actually that button does cause a mount if you configur it right |
| 19:42.30 | dream_kill | when compiling for htc-dream it uses the precompiled kernel from /vendor/htc.... |
| 19:42.35 | ITechJunkie | what is the difference? |
| 19:42.54 | dream_kill | wanted to know if anyone compiled itself the kernel in repo and if worked ok on the handset |
| 19:43.11 | spikebike | not sure we can boot an arbitrary kernel without control of the bootloader |
| 19:43.19 | jimp | spikebike: Hmm? can you swap the behavior? or are you just talking about from the PC side again |
| 19:43.44 | spikebike | I tweaked ubuntu, it used to automount rc19 |
| 19:43.47 | spikebike | but failed with RC29 |
| 19:43.50 | spikebike | till I tweaked udev |
| 19:43.54 | jimp | I don't care about automount from the PC, that's unrelated |
| 19:44.00 | jimp | from my point of view at least :P |
| 19:44.06 | thoraxe | spikebike: couldn't you just change the name of the kernel file if you knew what the bootloader was looking for? |
| 19:44.27 | thoraxe | i mean, with grub and linux, if you subbed in a different kernel/initrd it wouldn't matter what the bootloader was configured for |
| 19:44.30 | spikebike | Not sure we can write to where it's pointing or change the name |
| 19:44.34 | thoraxe | aha |
| 19:44.35 | thoraxe | gotcha |
| 19:44.37 | spikebike | not to mention the kernel might well be signed |
| 19:44.41 | jimp | thoraxe: It l oads it directly from flash, not a filesystem |
| 19:44.54 | thoraxe | jimp: flash memory you mean? |
| 19:44.57 | jimp | yes |
| 19:45.00 | thoraxe | gotcha |
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| 19:45.27 | dream_kill | getting the laptop out for more g1 hacking ...sorry research :P |
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| 19:49.12 | jeld | so, I guess google will delete telnetd or change permissions with r30 |
| 19:49.28 | jeld | wonder what can be done to make root access permanent |
| 19:49.55 | vol | a shared library marked suid |
| 19:50.39 | jimp | jeld: Deleting telnetd won't fix anything. The simple fix is here: http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=1207#c4 |
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| 19:50.51 | jimp | (disable the console) |
| 19:52.33 | brocktice | Well, you can't apparently modify the distributed flash file in future updates because then signatures won't match |
| 19:52.47 | brocktice | But since we now have write access to /system, couldn't you just unzip the update and apply it yourself? |
| 19:52.59 | brocktice | Or just the pieces you want |
| 19:53.36 | *** join/#android mnovaktesting (n=mnovak@pool-162-83-162-108.ny5030.east.verizon.net) |
| 19:53.49 | alansj | there has been work on modifying the restore image so that it checks for updates signed by the test keys rather than their keys |
| 19:54.19 | alansj | http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=2873715 |
| 19:54.47 | alansj | woops, this is a better link: √ |
| 19:54.50 | alansj | http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=443041 |
| 19:55.46 | brocktice | Interesting |
| 19:57.24 | brocktice | I wonder what was changed to make it work? |
| 19:57.37 | brocktice | I was looking at the install script in the RC29 update.zip, thought maybe that could be modified |
| 19:57.58 | jimp | What is changed is the keys compiled into the app. |
| 19:58.24 | brocktice | It's gotten around by writing the recovery.img directly? |
| 19:58.59 | jimp | Well, that's one way if you're just interested in reflashing (just flash the new image). |
| 19:59.11 | jimp | The goal there was to still use the built-in recovery mechanisms, just change the keys when building it. |
| 19:59.46 | brocktice | I see there's now a wiki for this stuff. |
| 19:59.48 | brocktice | Hope that stays up |
| 20:01.00 | jimp | There are a couple actually, I put one up at the same time as someone else |
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| 20:01.46 | brocktice | Well, now all of the people on the market complaining about not having a way to kill programs can (eventually) have what they want. |
| 20:01.49 | jimp | not much in mine, but some different info .. I imagine it will go away at some point |
| 20:01.53 | blau | lol |
| 20:02.05 | blau | its annoys me to no end about people wanting to kill apps |
| 20:02.16 | brocktice | They need to either get comfortable with the shell or (more likely) someone will come up with an app that uses root privs. |
| 20:02.27 | alansj | so I'm getting frustrated trying to put together my own boot.img... jimp have you messed with the image headers after updating the ramdisk? It's not clear to me how to read the ramdisk size specified in there. |
| 20:02.33 | blau | windows mobile has killed how people think mobile os's shoudl work |
| 20:02.38 | blau | ruined ruined ruined |
| 20:02.41 | brocktice | blau: To be fair, there are some real resource hogging programs that I've just uninstalled because of the crap that they run in the background |
| 20:02.50 | brocktice | And then rebooted. |
| 20:02.59 | blau | brock: if they are that bad, then you probably shouldnt be using them anyway |
| 20:03.03 | brocktice | It should not take 10 seconds to redraw the home screen |
| 20:03.08 | brocktice | Exactly |
| 20:03.13 | brocktice | That's why I uninstalled them. :) |
| 20:03.19 | blau | everything ive installed that has been a resource hogger, ive uninstalled and not even cared |
| 20:03.27 | brocktice | I really want Locale to be usable |
| 20:03.33 | brocktice | because it's cool stuff |
| 20:03.40 | brocktice | But it just grinds the device to a halt in short order |
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| 20:05.10 | jimp | alansj: http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/system/core.git;a=blob;f=mkbootimg/bootimg.h;h=242ab35db82be002005dbd3ce51e34dd7404d8e0;hb=master |
| 20:05.59 | jimp | blau: that's fine for apps that hog resources all the time, but what about the app that has a bug that causes it to just screw up once in a while? |
| 20:06.01 | alansj | yeah, I know... the thing driving me crazy is I used a compiled version of that to generate my boot img... and I'm just not good enough at c to totally decipher it |
| 20:06.03 | jimp | aah he ran away |
| 20:06.32 | jimp | why do you need to decipher? just run the app |
| 20:06.54 | alansj | yes, I did, and when I try to boot with the image I created I get infinite reboot |
| 20:07.00 | jimp | aah |
| 20:07.05 | alansj | maybe it's that the image itself is broken somehow |
| 20:07.31 | alansj | I noticed that when I gzip+cpio the ramdisk it's not the same size as the original despite the fact that I changed only one character |
| 20:07.49 | jt436 | once people learn how to code for the platform hopefully the resource hog apps will disappear (doubt it) |
| 20:08.00 | jimp | alansj: What platform did you run mkbootimage on? It doesn't look endian-safe to me. |
| 20:08.04 | alansj | and also that the ramdisk still has some readable strings in it (eg filenames) whereas the original ramdisk didn't have them |
| 20:08.07 | alansj | linux |
| 20:08.28 | alansj | it's possible I'm making the ramdisk wrong |
| 20:08.33 | jimp | I mean as in CPU platform. ppc, intel? 32-bit, 64-bit? |
| 20:09.43 | alansj | x86_64 |
| 20:09.56 | jimp | try 32, the alignment on the structure might be different |
| 20:10.08 | alansj | thx |
| 20:10.57 | jimp | actually, it looks like it's probably ok from an alignment pov... still worth a try though. |
| 20:11.19 | jimp | gcc -m32 |
| 20:12.27 | wastrel | why can't i view my shared work calendar in the calendars app? |
| 20:12.57 | wastrel | nvm it wasn't checked ;] |
| 20:14.28 | jimp | alansj: how are you making the ramdisk? |
| 20:15.00 | alansj | jimp, when creating my own ramdisk, should I be able to see strings in a hex editor or does that indicate that I somehow did the cpio/gz wrong? |
| 20:15.38 | jimp | A gzipped file likely won't have any recognizable strings |
| 20:15.52 | jimp | find . | cpio -o -H newc | gzip |
| 20:17.12 | jimp | See Documentation/filesystems/ramfs-rootfs-initramfs.txt in the kernel source for more details if you need them. |
| 20:18.27 | alansj | is the newc format important? |
| 20:18.28 | jimp | Also see e.g. scripts/gen_initramfs_list.sh |
| 20:19.58 | jimp | Maybe, I'm just reading the docs :P |
| 20:20.25 | jimp | Looks like GNU cpio's default is "binary" not newc |
| 20:21.42 | alansj | thanks for the pointers... I hadn't run across this before |
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| 20:23.18 | jimp | I'm headed out, later |
| 20:23.25 | brocktice | later |
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| 20:28.21 | Disconnect | wow. with http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=443041 it seems like we basically -have- the eng device already. cool deal. |
| 20:28.51 | VickiWong | anybody know what Google's London based mobile development team work on? Im sure it's not android |
| 20:30.09 | RyeBrye | Disconnect - not quite... we can brick our phones if we screw up both recovery and normal boot - but engineering devices can still use HTC's bootloader to reload if they do that |
| 20:30.15 | Disconnect | true |
| 20:31.24 | tauno | VickiWong, I think they are the J2ME guys.. google maps mobile and gmail(j2me) etc.. but I might be wrong |
| 20:32.25 | VickiWong | tauno: that sounds reasonable to assume, good idea |
| 20:35.10 | Disconnect | has anyone managed to get a working jad for gmail? wanted to try it in the j2me runner. |
| 20:35.29 | tauno | what do you mean by working? :) |
| 20:39.12 | Disconnect | working as in the dl links all show 404 and i can't find the "dl to your computer" link on the web page |
| 20:40.42 | cmonex | [21:30:15] <RyeBrye> Disconnect - not quite... we can brick our phones if we screw up both recovery and normal boot - but engineering devices can still use HTC's bootloader to reload if they do that |
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| 20:40.52 | cmonex | well i would like to see if SD flash is still available in the production SPL.. |
| 20:41.05 | cmonex | but I need that dump *hint hint ryebrye* |
| 20:41.17 | Disconnect | it is. thats how you do the manual update to rc29 |
| 20:41.23 | cmonex | Disconnect: incorrect |
| 20:41.27 | cmonex | you use recovery for it |
| 20:41.27 | cmonex | not SPL |
| 20:41.42 | androoid | what does it mean if I can't get the gps to update it's location? |
| 20:41.47 | cmonex | RyeBrye! you there? |
| 20:41.57 | brocktice | androoid: Go outside? |
| 20:42.41 | androoid | it works under maps application but not under my app |
| 20:42.46 | tauno | Disconnect, http://pastebin.com/d6adf507c |
| 20:43.08 | Disconnect | prodution crash, bbl |
| 20:43.14 | androoid | i'm just doing like |
| 20:43.17 | androoid | mLocationListener = new SampleLocationListener(); |
| 20:43.17 | androoid | getLocationManager().requestLocationUpdates(PROVIDER_NAME, t, 0,mLocationListener); |
| 20:43.18 | tmzt | androoid: you using apis or reading smd7 ? |
| 20:43.30 | androoid | where t is in ms |
| 20:44.58 | Disconnect | ..nevermind. fscking vmware. hate it. a lot. |
| 20:45.23 | ascii__ | a question guys, why would you want to flash your g1 with the recovery image? |
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| 20:45.36 | andyross | Hrm... there's no way to distinguish an event from the panel Menu button and the keyboard button with the same glyph? |
| 20:45.50 | ttuttle | ascii__: you don't want to. it's the "backup" image that's used to update the main image. |
| 20:46.05 | Disconnect | yah its one of those 'if you have to ask' kind of things :) |
| 20:46.45 | ascii__ | ttuttle, ah, that explains.. |
| 20:47.30 | ascii__ | my fuckin phone spent all my money on downloading that g1 update google released.. |
| 20:47.33 | ascii__ | without asking me.. |
| 20:47.36 | ascii__ | :@ |
| 20:47.39 | cmonex | wow. |
| 20:47.46 | cmonex | some bad designs |
| 20:47.52 | ttuttle | ascii__: money? |
| 20:48.03 | jasta | ascii__: all your money? you use the g1 without unlimited data!?! |
| 20:48.10 | ttuttle | ascii__: 1. OTA works over wifi. 2. T-Mobile doesn't cap data. |
| 20:48.12 | ascii__ | i sure do.. |
| 20:48.14 | jasta | are you insane? |
| 20:48.19 | cmonex | jasta: in many countries you don't have unlimited internet |
| 20:48.19 | ttuttle | ascii__: That's a bad idea. |
| 20:48.25 | cmonex | for mobile internet |
| 20:48.26 | ascii__ | i'm in australia though.. |
| 20:48.27 | jasta | cmonex: then don't buy a G1! |
| 20:48.32 | cmonex | in my country only vodafone has it |
| 20:48.37 | cmonex | and only with FUP |
| 20:48.43 | alansj | hey can you guys remind me if there's some setting on the phone you need to enable to have it run adbd? Ever since restoring my boot img, adbd doesn't start up (although I can start it manually from a terminal on the phone) |
| 20:48.48 | ascii__ | on a vodafone prepaid thingy.. |
| 20:48.50 | cmonex | jasta: this is why i said: "some bad designs". |
| 20:48.52 | Disconnect | tauno: cool thanks btw :) |
| 20:49.13 | cmonex | if g1 requires unlimited internet. that's not a good design :) |
| 20:49.20 | ascii__ | it should warn you before downloading stuff from the internet though...so i can enable wifi for example! |
| 20:49.27 | *** join/#android mnovaktesting (n=mnovak@pool-162-83-162-108.ny5030.east.verizon.net) |
| 20:49.36 | cmonex | ascii__: i'm on vodafone prepaid too, but different country... you can get unlimited only on contract :/ |
| 20:49.38 | jasta | cmonex: i disagre wholeheartedly. google is making a bold statement about how fucking stupid your carrier's policies are. |
| 20:49.54 | jasta | and you're the idiot for getting caught in the middle of that fight. |
| 20:50.04 | cmonex | jasta: have fun calling people idiot =) |
| 20:50.22 | mikez5 | alansj: The setting to enable adbd is Settings/Applications/Development/Enable USB debugging (or something like that). |
| 20:50.23 | ascii__ | cmonex, yea, i know...still fuckin expensive down here..australians are weird when it comes to internet and phones...living in 1996.. |
| 20:50.46 | Dougie187 | http://www.engadget.com/2008/11/07/google-patches-up-android-jailbreak-with-rc30-update/ |
| 20:50.51 | ascii__ | i'm originally from norway, much better there..here they still have caps on broadbands.. |
| 20:50.53 | alansj | mikez5: thanks |
| 20:50.54 | mikez5 | adbd is off by default to avoid annoying Hardware Wizard dialogs when plugging into Windows machines. |
| 20:50.55 | ttuttle | does not get Austrailia. The internet *sucks*. |
| 20:51.04 | *** join/#android TheSarge (n=Misunder@unaffiliated/thesarge) |
| 20:51.08 | TheSarge | hello |
| 20:51.15 | cmonex | jasta: btw, nice idea on gettign unlimited, but i would like to pay less for less (i dont need unlimited mobile internet so far.) |
| 20:51.21 | cmonex | and so that's what i do.. |
| 20:51.28 | cmonex | paying minimal amount =) |
| 20:51.33 | jasta | cmonex: in the US, unlimited mobile internet is very cheap. |
| 20:51.37 | cmonex | how cheap? |
| 20:51.44 | jasta | $25/mo on t-mobile, with 400 SMS messages included. |
| 20:51.51 | cmonex | 25 is too much for me in my country.. |
| 20:51.51 | jasta | 25USD, of course |
| 20:51.56 | TheSarge | that isnt chea |
| 20:52.01 | TheSarge | cheap |
| 20:52.23 | TheSarge | tzones hack for 5usd is cheap |
| 20:52.35 | jasta | 25USD isn't cheap? in my experience most europeans pay through the nose for their mobile phones. they get hardly any minutes for a lot of money, especially when you factor in the exchange rates. |
| 20:52.36 | ascii__ | i pay fuckin $40 bucks for a 100mb cap.. |
| 20:52.44 | ttuttle | ascii__: That sucks. You should move ;-) |
| 20:52.45 | cmonex | jasta: i pay about 10usd or less |
| 20:52.51 | cmonex | for my mobile internet from vodafone |
| 20:52.56 | Dougie187 | i don't pay anything. |
| 20:52.56 | jasta | cmonex: and how much do you get? |
| 20:53.01 | ascii__ | ttuttle, only got 1 more year down here.. :p |
| 20:53.02 | Dougie187 | free mobile internet here. |
| 20:53.03 | cmonex | and its enough data for me, but i wouldn't want to download OTA over it |
| 20:53.04 | Dougie187 | ;) |
| 20:53.15 | ttuttle | ascii__: Yeah, so, in the future, download OTA updates over Wifi. |
| 20:53.21 | *** join/#android mnovaktesting (n=mnovak@pool-162-83-162-108.ny5030.east.verizon.net) |
| 20:53.24 | cmonex | ttuttle: so you can disable automatic OTA? |
| 20:53.31 | ttuttle | cmonex: I'm not sure. |
| 20:53.35 | cmonex | that's the problem :S |
| 20:53.36 | ascii__ | ttuttle, but i don't know when the fuck it is downloading :p..it didn't say "can i download now".. |
| 20:53.37 | TheSarge | ya |
| 20:53.53 | jasta | doesn't the g1 only officially sell with carriers that have unlimited data plans? |
| 20:54.00 | ascii__ | if only it did i could have enabled my wifi.. |
| 20:54.14 | Disconnect | ascii__: doesn't it start with "you have an update, apply now?" |
| 20:54.21 | ttuttle | Disconnect: Yes, after it's downloaded it. |
| 20:54.26 | Disconnect | oooh :( |
| 20:54.26 | ascii__ | is soooon done with my current Android app project....yey! |
| 20:54.36 | cmonex | jasta: |
| 20:54.42 | mikez5 | You can't disable OTAs, unless you hack around it using the root sploit |
| 20:54.43 | cmonex | it will be sold on hungarian tmobile |
| 20:54.46 | ascii__ | Disconnect, it does, AFTER it already downloaded it :p |
| 20:54.48 | cmonex | and they don't offer unlimited! |
| 20:54.53 | cmonex | only vodafone does in my country ... |
| 20:55.00 | cmonex | (and only on contract. i'm prepaid) |
| 20:55.10 | jasta | i have a counter in my app hehe. so far since i got my G1 a couple of weeks ago, i have used almost 1GB with my app alone :) |
| 20:55.22 | cmonex | what app? :O :O |
| 20:55.29 | jasta | http://five.googlecode.com |
| 20:55.34 | Dougie187 | jasta: look out, it might slow down in another 2 weeks. |
| 20:55.38 | jasta | cmonex: and how much do you pay for minutes? :) |
| 20:55.39 | Dougie187 | once you hit your cap. |
| 20:55.45 | cmonex | jasta: I don't call |
| 20:55.52 | languish | lol |
| 20:55.52 | cmonex | just data and some sms |
| 20:55.53 | jasta | Dougie187: their contract no longer has a cap. |
| 20:56.01 | TheSarge | the cap isnt 1gb anymore |
| 20:56.05 | jasta | cmonex: they don't let you buy plans like that in the US, but those are atypical anyway. |
| 20:56.07 | Dougie187 | jasta: they have a cap where they throttle your bandwidth though. |
| 20:56.14 | Dougie187 | jasta: not a hard cap. a soft cap. |
| 20:56.18 | cmonex | yah, USA is very different |
| 20:56.19 | TheSarge | no |
| 20:56.21 | jasta | the US mobile pricing is very competitive, to the point that i can confidentally say it beats most countries in the world that tout progressive wireless policies |
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| 20:56.30 | incandenza | a t-mobile guy I talked to on the phone said there is a 10GB/mo cap. dunno if he knew what he was talking about though |
| 20:56.49 | TheSarge | the softcap is 10gb now |
| 20:56.50 | languish | incandenza, that's correct |
| 20:56.53 | cmonex | incandenza: maybe means FUP, over 10GB you are going to get watched :) |
| 20:57.05 | cmonex | vodafone does that here over 5GB on the "unlimited" plan, heh |
| 20:57.06 | languish | after 10 they limit you to modem speeds.. around 50k |
| 20:57.16 | incandenza | I see |
| 20:57.37 | cmonex | oops, is that USA tmobile? |
| 20:57.53 | cmonex | jasta: nice app idea :) |
| 20:59.00 | ascii__ | when are they gonna start release tv-shows and stuff for handhelds? |
| 20:59.12 | ascii__ | i would love that.. |
| 20:59.18 | jasta | cmonex: well, you can't use it :P |
| 20:59.29 | Dougie187 | ascii__: some carriers how them. |
| 20:59.47 | jasta | cmonex: i expect to average my monthly usage at about 3GB |
| 21:00.00 | jasta | all things told, not just my app i mean |
| 21:00.02 | ascii__ | sweet..not far away then.. |
| 21:00.05 | jasta | i use a lot of data, and i leave wifi off always |
| 21:00.21 | RyeBrye | my favorite comment so far in the android source tree: |
| 21:00.23 | RyeBrye | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:00.26 | *** join/#android feclare (n=feclare@84.121.199.52.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 21:00.27 | ascii__ | what element of the G1 uses most battery? |
| 21:00.37 | Dougie187 | jasta: you should try to get to your cap sometime just so you could see how your app works after that. |
| 21:00.38 | RyeBrye | (it's an external - so not google's stuff, btu still funny) |
| 21:00.41 | ascii__ | i find my G1 goes empty way to quickly.. |
| 21:00.45 | jasta | ascii__: GPS, 3G radio, WiFi radio, screen... |
| 21:01.12 | jasta | Dougie187: i talked with a sales rep quite a bit and read through the contract, they took that verbiage out. |
| 21:01.57 | Disconnect | ascii__: calibrate it |
| 21:02.08 | Disconnect | points to the topic where it still doesn't mention that (sigh) .. |
| 21:02.13 | jasta | i was skimming a bit when i read it so i might have missed something that i thought was irrelevant |
| 21:02.20 | jasta | but from what i read, it looked like i could sue if they cap me |
| 21:02.27 | ascii__ | Disconnect, how?what? :p |
| 21:02.27 | Disconnect | basically just drain it until it will not boot. at all. then charge it (at least 8 hours, 24 is best) UNINTERRUPTED. then it'll be much better about battery. |
| 21:02.35 | DJTachyon | is there any way to get internet from the usb on the G1 ? :P |
| 21:02.44 | Dougie187 | jasta: not hard cap... just throttle. |
| 21:02.55 | jasta | Dougie187: it's still not in the contract that they can do this |
| 21:03.09 | Dougie187 | is it online somewhere? |
| 21:03.18 | ascii__ | Disconnect, ahh..sounds good..i'll def give that a try...would you charge it powered off then, or? |
| 21:03.19 | jasta | i had a lengthy discussion with the sales rep about this too (who, of course, knows nothing) but the contract didn't contain any insane verbiage |
| 21:03.26 | jasta | Dougie187: the contract i signed with t-mobile? no :) |
| 21:03.36 | Dougie187 | no, i mean their terms of service. |
| 21:03.45 | jasta | oh i dont know |
| 21:03.48 | languish | cmonex, sorry I missed your Q before. yes, it's tmo-usa |
| 21:03.57 | jasta | Dougie187: the contract is self-contained as far as i know. |
| 21:04.05 | Dougie187 | this was the last bit i remember hearing about it. |
| 21:04.11 | Disconnect | ascii__: either way. modern devices (esp embedded linux) tend to mostly boot while charging anyway (to allow intelligent charging) .. g1 might be different (since there are 2 cpus etc) but it probably doesn't hurt to boot it |
| 21:04.11 | Dougie187 | "Our goal, when the T-Mobile G1 becomes available in October, is to provide affordable, high-speed data service allowing customers to experience the full data capabilities of the device and our 3G network. At the same time, we have a responsibility to provide the best network experience for all of our customers so we reserve the right to temporarily reduce data throughput for a small fraction of our customers who have excessive or disproportionate |
| 21:04.31 | incandenza | if they say something like "we don't guarantee any particular speed", I don't see how you can sue if it gets slower |
| 21:04.38 | Dougie187 | granted that i quite old. |
| 21:04.58 | Dougie187 | is* |
| 21:05.12 | jasta | Dougie187: it doesn't matter what they say on their website or anything. the contract is what legally binds me to their service, and they can't violate it. |
| 21:05.19 | tauno | ascii__ "when are they gonna start release tv-shows and stuff for handhelds?" <-- it's called DVB-H and it's already there.. and it's totally free :) |
| 21:05.21 | jasta | they can't do what's not in the contract, basically. |
| 21:05.44 | ascii__ | tauno, for everyone?...or only for us citizens? |
| 21:05.46 | jasta | if they disrupt my service in a way that violates the contract, then they can be sued :) |
| 21:05.53 | Dougie187 | jasta: is there a guarantee for some set speed in your contract though? |
| 21:06.04 | jasta | Dougie187: no, but there is a minimum guarantee of operable performance |
| 21:06.09 | jasta | that is the section i read thoroughly :) |
| 21:06.17 | tauno | jasta, that's in Estonia and some other EU countries.. don't know about US |
| 21:06.23 | jasta | and i think with most phones it's easy for them to argue that a cap is within the scope of the contract |
| 21:06.36 | jasta | with a device like the G1 or iPhone, it would not be since the basic function of the device does require heavy data usage |
| 21:06.42 | ascii__ | tauno, and you are talking about antenna signals, so a decoder is need in the phone? |
| 21:06.47 | jasta | so for instance i could say the built-in amazonmp3 app no longer works right, or the youtube app no longer works |
| 21:06.52 | jasta | and that has impaired the function of the device |
| 21:06.55 | jasta | and so is unacceptable. |
| 21:07.14 | Disconnect | jasta: built-in != basic function. |
| 21:07.23 | cmonex | languish thx :) |
| 21:07.29 | tauno | ascii__ yes |
| 21:07.33 | Disconnect | if it did, we could all get months and months of free service while we wait for camera and email to work. |
| 21:07.54 | tauno | ascii__ some new phones ship with it (like Nokia n96) |
| 21:07.57 | *** join/#android unix_lappy (i=614133e2@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-41304352f8be89de) |
| 21:08.03 | jasta | Disconnect: well, actually i would define basic function as everything it claims to do in its advertising. |
| 21:08.15 | ascii__ | aha..could be interesting..i know its big in japan.. |
| 21:08.27 | jasta | Disconnect: but we'll see if they even exercise this right. i doubt that they will, honestly. |
| 21:08.28 | ascii__ | when i was over there they all watched tv on the subway and stuff.. |
| 21:08.32 | ascii__ | damn asocial people :p |
| 21:09.29 | ascii__ | has there been any more rumours about other models running android? |
| 21:09.46 | ascii__ | last i heard was motorola and samsung was working on some stuff.. |
| 21:10.09 | Disconnect | someone said that at&t cto made an announcement @ web20 but i haven't seen any supporting evidence. |
| 21:10.18 | Dougie187 | ascii__: last i heard motorola stopped working on it. |
| 21:10.30 | ascii__ | Dougie187, oh really?? |
| 21:10.33 | Dougie187 | mainly because of their loses. |
| 21:10.34 | ascii__ | thats bad news.. |
| 21:10.39 | unix_lappy | Disconnect: yea, michael arrington let it go citing at&t ceo. |
| 21:11.11 | *** join/#android EQU (n=chatzill@aazd33.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 21:11.14 | unix_lappy | ny post puts out an article saying at&t is still investigating putting android on its devices... |
| 21:11.51 | ascii__ | i think the biggest drawback with android today, is that the htc dream isn't good enough designed to use with android.. |
| 21:12.18 | ascii__ | so android doesn't get as hyped as for example the iphone.. |
| 21:12.49 | Dougie187 | unix_lappy: http://www.engadget.com/2008/11/06/not-so-fast-android-isnt-coming-to-atandt-just-yet/ |
| 21:12.51 | RyeBrye | romainguy - you around? |
| 21:13.08 | Dougie187 | thats the last i heard about AT&T too. |
| 21:13.12 | *** join/#android TRob (n=TRob@63.162.194.147) |
| 21:13.17 | unix_lappy | Dougie187: yea, sorry, SFC, not NYP. |
| 21:13.55 | unix_lappy | i feel like i'll be getting screwed if i do get a g1 and i'll be getting screwed if i dont...so i'm done lusting over it ;-) |
| 21:14.11 | RyeBrye | if you are going to get one, now is the time |
| 21:14.13 | Dougie187 | I guess they aren't really impressed. |
| 21:14.15 | RyeBrye | ... before it gets patched |
| 21:14.19 | Dougie187 | same with sprint though... :( |
| 21:14.24 | cmonex | ascii__: yes htc dream is so ugly. |
| 21:14.28 | cmonex | and why isnt it VGA? WVGA? |
| 21:14.31 | cmonex | =) |
| 21:14.43 | cmonex | but i like that there is a hw keyb! |
| 21:15.02 | Dougie187 | cmonex: what about the touch pro? |
| 21:15.12 | unix_lappy | Dougie187: could care less about root access. |
| 21:15.26 | unix_lappy | erm, RyeBrye. i care more about functionality. |
| 21:15.35 | ascii__ | i think they could have removed that damn joystick thingy, and moved the menu-button to another place.. |
| 21:15.39 | michaelnovakjr | i don't care for root access either |
| 21:15.50 | unix_lappy | of course, if I was developing at that low a level sure, i'd want that root access, but i'm not. |
| 21:15.57 | ascii__ | and don't see the need for the answer/decline buttons..when you've got touchscreen.. |
| 21:16.03 | cmonex | Dougie187. i have a touch pro-- what is your question? |
| 21:16.10 | *** join/#android milfadoodle (n=milfadoo@h100n2-blg-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 21:16.22 | cmonex | unix_lappy: root is useful for some functionality =) |
| 21:16.25 | andyross | I rather like the trackball. Have you played with it in the browser? Much better for hitting small links than your fingers are. |
| 21:16.36 | Dougie187 | cmonex: nm then. Do you like the touch pro? |
| 21:16.36 | unix_lappy | cmonex: root is not a killer app. |
| 21:16.53 | cmonex | Dougie187: it's ok, the stock rom is quite buggy on it out of the box though |
| 21:16.54 | RyeBrye | unix_lappy: but root is an app killer ;) |
| 21:16.56 | cmonex | the hw is nice |
| 21:17.00 | tmzt | you can wait for bluetooth api or you can do it yourself |
| 21:17.07 | unix_lappy | andyross: agreed there, navigating to an area on the browser via touchscreen + trackball = heaven. |
| 21:17.17 | *** join/#android mnovaktesting (n=mnovak@pool-162-83-162-108.ny5030.east.verizon.net) |
| 21:17.22 | cmonex | Dougie187: luckily that cfan be helped though |
| 21:17.24 | cmonex | can* |
| 21:17.31 | cmonex | I was the one who unlocked the SPL on it |
| 21:17.42 | Dougie187 | thats cool |
| 21:17.50 | Dougie187 | now just get android on it. |
| 21:17.57 | ascii__ | SPL? |
| 21:18.01 | cmonex | hehe, i think that'll be possible too =) |
| 21:18.08 | Dougie187 | thats what im waiting for. |
| 21:18.16 | cmonex | SPL: bootloader. the tricolour thing on your G1 is when it's sitting in SPL |
| 21:18.23 | cmonex | (camera + power) |
| 21:18.36 | ascii__ | ah, okey :) |
| 21:19.00 | *** join/#android mnovaktesting (n=mnovak@pool-162-83-162-108.ny5030.east.verizon.net) |
| 21:19.32 | Dougie187 | mnovaktesting: what are you testing? |
| 21:20.10 | michaelnovakjr | yes... done now :) |
| 21:20.21 | Dougie187 | lol what is it? |
| 21:20.29 | michaelnovakjr | connecting from the G1 |
| 21:20.31 | cmonex | ascii__: it's also what loads the linux kernel or the recovery |
| 21:20.33 | Dougie187 | oh ok |
| 21:21.48 | ascii__ | so would it be possible to install android on other htc models? |
| 21:22.02 | Dougie187 | ascii__: not if it doesn't have a keyboard.... at least yet |
| 21:22.09 | Dougie187 | or it wouldn't be much use. |
| 21:22.24 | ascii__ | yea, sure.but there'll be an on-screen one soon.. |
| 21:22.31 | tmzt | there is dzo onscreen keyboard in the framebuffer driver for some htc devices |
| 21:22.32 | cmonex | ascii__: it has been done before yes |
| 21:22.39 | cmonex | just quite alphaish =) |
| 21:22.44 | *** join/#android dysinger (n=tim@rrcs-67-53-35-42.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 21:22.52 | ascii__ | sweet.. |
| 21:22.54 | *** join/#android mnovaktesting (n=mnovak@pool-162-83-162-108.ny5030.east.verizon.net) |
| 21:23.05 | ascii__ | what is the current best htc model? |
| 21:23.13 | ascii__ | when it comes to hardware specs.. |
| 21:23.41 | spikebike | touch HD |
| 21:24.01 | Dougie187 | spikebike: what are you basing best on? |
| 21:25.45 | *** join/#android dysinger_ (n=tim@rrcs-67-53-35-42.west.biz.rr.com) |
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| 21:30.02 | *** part/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@wg-d232118.dsl.fsu.edu) |
| 21:30.15 | thoraxe | oh where oh where could a vpn client beeeeee |
| 21:30.16 | thoraxe | heh |
| 21:30.17 | cmonex | spikebike |
| 21:30.27 | cmonex | my personal opinion only ... but it's htc athena |
| 21:30.37 | thoraxe | i wonder what mnovak is testing |
| 21:30.37 | cmonex | maybe a tie between the two :) |
| 21:30.48 | cmonex | as HD has better screen res, but athena has other stuff that's better. |
| 21:30.57 | tmzt | Touch Pro HD |
| 21:31.02 | tmzt | but it doesn't exist |
| 21:31.06 | cmonex | right =( |
| 21:32.34 | ascii__ | i remember my last HTC...was a Qtek(HTC) 2020i :D |
| 21:33.08 | tmzt | which is? |
| 21:33.50 | ascii__ | i'm trying to find out.. |
| 21:34.02 | tmzt | look on wiki.xda-developers.com |
| 21:36.06 | ascii__ | HTC Alpine..is that correct? |
| 21:36.07 | ascii__ | :p |
| 21:36.17 | *** join/#android dysinger__ (n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com) |
| 21:36.31 | ascii__ | Also had a HTC Tanager.. |
| 21:36.35 | ascii__ | good old days.. |
| 21:36.56 | ascii__ | most satisfied with my HTC Prophet though.. |
| 21:38.58 | benley | should ebay some of his various excess mobile devices |
| 21:39.20 | benley | anyone want an E61? |
| 21:39.26 | ascii__ | benley, anything good? |
| 21:39.26 | benley | or a ppc6700? |
| 21:40.12 | spikebike | cmonex I'm a sucker for 800x480 and 256MB ram |
| 21:40.18 | spikebike | what does the athena have? |
| 21:41.00 | *** join/#android brown10101 (n=celso@cpc1-walt6-0-0-cust156.popl.cable.ntl.com) |
| 21:41.12 | ascii__ | are there any plans on opening up the 3g frequencies on the G1?...since it's locked to t-mobiles frequencies.. |
| 21:41.32 | *** join/#android mnovaktesting (n=mnovak@pool-162-83-162-108.ny5030.east.verizon.net) |
| 21:41.47 | mnovaktesting | howdy |
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| 21:43.28 | jbq | ascii__: you'd literally need to solder additional chips to support additional frequencies. |
| 21:43.29 | cmonex | spikebike: 16GB SSD, vga out, usb host, detachable keyboard, 5" screen |
| 21:43.36 | cmonex | and.. quadband HSDPA |
| 21:43.56 | cmonex | fuck htc with their recent decisions to make different versions that are only dualband each.. |
| 21:44.01 | ascii__ | jbq, that bad?....why the hell would they do something like that? :p |
| 21:44.16 | spikebike | cmonex heh, is it still a phone |
| 21:44.20 | cmonex | it is :) |
| 21:44.27 | cmonex | well, mostp eople will want to use BT headset for it |
| 21:44.31 | cmonex | I don't really do voice |
| 21:44.39 | ascii__ | cmonex, that Athena would be fuckin sweet with android on it.. |
| 21:44.41 | cmonex | btw i saw the touch HD yesterday at a local meeting |
| 21:44.45 | cmonex | ascii__: yes :D |
| 21:44.55 | jbq | ascii__: I'm not an RF designer, but apparently they used discrete 3G radio amplifiers for each frequency band, so that there are 3 amplifiers on the device (2G, 3G1700, 3G2100) |
| 21:44.56 | cmonex | anyway, so the HD, i saw it beside an iphone 3g.. |
| 21:45.17 | cmonex | slightly thicker but a bit less in length, so wow. |
| 21:45.22 | cmonex | and *fast* |
| 21:45.26 | spikebike | Mmmm |
| 21:45.28 | spikebike | sounds great |
| 21:45.29 | cmonex | i have the diamond, i know what to compare to.. |
| 21:45.38 | cmonex | diamond (and touch pro too)is slowerû |
| 21:45.46 | spikebike | I basically want a fast n800 with celluar and android |
| 21:45.53 | cmonex | hehe |
| 21:45.56 | cmonex | n800 can run android yes? |
| 21:45.59 | spikebike | and the HD has the same screen |
| 21:46.02 | cmonex | i didnt install it on n810 yet :/ |
| 21:46.03 | spikebike | somewhat |
| 21:46.08 | cmonex | I want to see it on g1 first. |
| 21:46.11 | spikebike | no keyboard yet |
| 21:46.16 | cmonex | oh =( |
| 21:46.23 | spikebike | er HD has the same resolution as the n800 |
| 21:46.25 | cmonex | or what do you mean? |
| 21:46.31 | cmonex | n810 android has no keyb, or somethingelse? |
| 21:47.11 | cmonex | i prefer n810's screen to HD, but 800x480 is quite uncommon for WM (or any other mobile device) so no wonder the HD is so great ;) |
| 21:47.20 | ascii__ | would android be able to support video calls? |
| 21:47.34 | *** join/#android Adamant (n=Adamant@c-98-244-152-196.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 21:48.25 | spikebike | and the g1 does pretty damn well with multitasking and 192MB ram |
| 21:48.32 | spikebike | More ram certainly won't hurt ;-) |
| 21:49.01 | tmzt | is it physically limited to 192 or is that the bank thing in the kernel? |
| 21:49.32 | cmonex | bank thing? |
| 21:49.35 | cmonex | hey tmzt! |
| 21:49.35 | *** join/#android jt436 (n=jtomlins@sdserver66.mforma.com) |
| 21:49.45 | *** join/#android andyross (n=andy@static-71-245-107-194.ptldor.fios.verizon.net) |
| 21:49.49 | RyeBrye | Just out of curiosity, is there a way to dump the physical memory of the phone to debug it? |
| 21:49.55 | cmonex | spikebike: yes i think 192 is better than the n8xx's 128... :S |
| 21:50.46 | spikebike | I think it's two factors |
| 21:50.53 | spikebike | maemo sucks with 128M |
| 21:51.03 | spikebike | I think overall it's alot less memory efficient than android |
| 21:51.04 | tmzt | I think the 64ram is in the msm and the 128 is external, but I could be wrong |
| 21:51.12 | spikebike | tmzt I think you are right |
| 21:51.32 | andyross | RyeBrye: /proc/mem is there, but it's only the 101M mapped to the ARM11 core. There is a /dev/pmem driver which is android-specific that might get better access, but I don't know. |
| 21:52.08 | tmzt | so you are limited to that 101m all the time in android? |
| 21:52.17 | andyross | On the main CPU, yes. That's all the kernel sees. |
| 21:52.43 | cmonex | which 101MB, andyross? |
| 21:52.59 | andyross | You mean where, physically? No idea. But /proc/meminfo reports 101M available to the kernel. |
| 21:53.05 | cmonex | oh.. |
| 21:53.27 | cmonex | <tmzt> I think the 64ram is in the msm and the 128 is external, but I could be wrong --->that would be the same as diamond then :) |
| 21:53.44 | andyross | There's also a baseband CPU, a GPU and a DSP that all presumably have some allocation. And like I said there's a "pmem" driver that seems to be specific to android that might expose those other regions. |
| 21:53.51 | tmzt | that's where I'm getting that from then, I thought that was for trout |
| 21:54.11 | cmonex | where did you see the info tmzt? |
| 21:54.23 | tmzt | htc-linux, should be in the logs |
| 21:54.42 | andyross | Ah... so I'm guessing the 64M region is owned by the GPU and framebuffer, which explains why a Brew document about the MSM7500 encouraged the use of vertex buffer objects in OpenGL, which only make sense if vertex memory is somewhere that regular vertex arrays can't point to. |
| 21:54.46 | tmzt | the way the memory is mapped for board-trout and/or raph/diam |
| 21:55.17 | tmzt | there are mmu bits for different things |
| 21:55.40 | andyross | would really, really love to see a MSM7x00 datasheet at some point... |
| 21:56.22 | tmzt | like, on htc-linux they found that the gpios (on arm9) can be mapped into memory and avoid proc_comm in some cases |
| 21:56.26 | cmonex | tmzt can i see this somewhere for trout? |
| 21:56.31 | cmonex | this mmu info |
| 21:56.31 | tmzt | using permission bits |
| 21:56.57 | tmzt | I think that all came from the source, the .S files mostly (asm) |
| 21:57.30 | KNY | is it possible to run two versions of an application? |
| 21:57.32 | cmonex | hmm, ok, i'll look. :) |
| 21:57.38 | KNY | I want to use my app and develop it at the same time |
| 21:57.46 | KNY | without having to delete my db all the time and such |
| 21:57.49 | cmonex | actually, all thhis should be there somewhere. |
| 21:57.55 | cmonex | now i have to brb a bit.. |
| 21:57.58 | *** part/#android fx6 (n=fx5@dslb-082-083-218-252.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 21:59.36 | thoraxe | KNY: why not make two "different" applications? |
| 21:59.57 | KNY | thoraxe, eh? like MyApp.apk and MyApp+1.apk? |
| 22:00.18 | savid | So is the touch HD supposedly going to be the G2? |
| 22:00.24 | *** join/#android plusminus_ (i=4421a620@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-9ec07ff9856a1d7d) |
| 22:00.25 | savid | that's a nice phone :-p |
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| 22:18.00 | undiscove | Hi everyone! |
| 22:18.06 | androoid | hi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| 22:19.26 | undiscove | Quick question: I just did the "jailbreak", and I'm really glad to have root access. Is there anything I should be doing to preserve access to my phone? (T-Mobile hasn't pushed RC30 on me yet) |
| 22:21.32 | RyeBrye | http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Preventing_OTA_Updates |
| 22:21.40 | RyeBrye | that method is believed to work |
| 22:21.54 | RyeBrye | a method that would almost certainly work involves more risk, but is to reflash it |
| 22:22.04 | RyeBrye | http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=443041 |
| 22:23.54 | undiscove | Hrm. |
| 22:24.05 | undiscove | Thanks for the links. |
| 22:24.34 | undiscove | I like the idea of blocking OTA updates, although it sounds like it will just drain the battery down. |
| 22:25.16 | RyeBrye | only if they are in the process of sending you one |
| 22:25.33 | RyeBrye | so until RC30 hits, it wont drain any more battery |
| 22:25.39 | RyeBrye | but yeah, it's not a long-term solution |
| 22:26.52 | andyross | Someone (prob. xda-forums) pointed out that the Updater application itself can just be removed. |
| 22:28.02 | RyeBrye | where is the updater application? |
| 22:28.04 | *** join/#android walker (n=walker@pennmush.org) |
| 22:28.27 | undiscove | What about leaving behind a root-privileged executable on the phone? (Preferably one that asks for a p/w or something) |
| 22:28.36 | andyross | I forget. But the instructions were along the lines of "remount /system rw and remove Update.apk and Update.odex". Didn't look more closely. |
| 22:28.36 | RyeBrye | not possible |
| 22:28.46 | *** join/#android phosphoricx (n=fmaker@169.237.152.80) |
| 22:28.57 | undiscove | Ah. Why not?> |
| 22:29.05 | RyeBrye | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:29.14 | walker | Howdy folks - Has anyone as yet made build instructions for using other jvm-capable langauges with android? e.g: jruby, jython, rhino(javascript), etc? |
| 22:29.15 | phosphoricx | Can anyone point me to a tutorial on how to build Android source (Not App SDK) using Eclipse? |
| 22:29.16 | undiscove | ahhh |
| 22:29.24 | andyross | Yeah, there's an "Updater.apk/odex" in /system/app. Haven't tried it, ymmv, yada yada |
| 22:29.47 | RyeBrye | I'll keep it on mine though... It's probably the easiest way to sniff out the OTA URLs |
| 22:30.38 | mnovaktesting | or just wait :) |
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| 22:32.37 | sfuentes | walker: http://mantrid.wordpress.com/2008/04/28/do-android-dream-of-something-more-than-java/ |
| 22:33.07 | *** join/#android satadru (n=satadru@cpe-69-201-133-23.nyc.res.rr.com) |
| 22:33.16 | sfuentes | seems scala has the most potential here |
| 22:34.49 | michaelnovakjr | i like java :) |
| 22:35.21 | romainguy_ | phosphoricx: you mean you want to build the entire project from git using Eclipse? |
| 22:35.34 | satadru | has anybody installed the modded recovery image here successfully? |
| 22:36.05 | phosphoricx | romainguy_: yes |
| 22:36.21 | romainguy_ | you can't |
| 22:36.24 | romainguy_ | at least not easily |
| 22:36.27 | romainguy_ | you have to use make |
| 22:36.41 | michaelnovakjr | make is really easy |
| 22:37.03 | DJTachyon | ffs T-Mobile |
| 22:37.10 | DJTachyon | I'm on the phone again and they still havent sent a replacement |
| 22:37.20 | romainguy_ | DJTachyon: what happened to your phone? |
| 22:37.27 | DJTachyon | it came defective |
| 22:37.38 | DJTachyon | The Accelerometer/Compass package is broken |
| 22:37.41 | walker | sfuentes: Nuts. |
| 22:37.52 | walker | realizes he has the wrong nick. |
| 22:37.58 | DJTachyon | I have been waiting for a cross ship for 2 weeks |
| 22:38.26 | phosphoricx | romainguy_: ok, running make is cool. Is there an easy way to add all the src and inc files to the project without having to select each directory? |
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| 22:38.48 | romainguy_ | phosphoricx: yeah, you just run make at the root of the project :) |
| 22:39.00 | lethalcode | sfuentes: Thanks for the link, I was about ready to spend a lot of time trying to get rhino to work on android. |
| 22:39.05 | DJTachyon | romainguy: lame eh? This is my 4th call to the return center :P |
| 22:39.18 | phosphoricx | romainguy_: by add them I mean so that I can use code completion and go to implementation, etc |
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| 22:39.46 | romainguy_ | phosphoricx: ah, I don't know Eclipse enough to know how to do this |
| 22:39.58 | mikez5 | lethalcode: I thought I heard Rhino did some wacky stuff that might not work on Dalvik. |
| 22:39.59 | romainguy_ | I thought there was an eclipse project file in the git tree already |
| 22:40.04 | romainguy_ | there should be a .classpath |
| 22:40.06 | phosphoricx | romainguy_: oh ok, I"ll hope over to the eclipse channel, thanks for your help!!! |
| 22:40.11 | sfuentes | lethalcode: keep in mind the link is relatively old ... not sure what's the current status |
| 22:40.20 | andyross | Not to bring up the IDE flame again, but surely the sane thing to do would be a separate Eclipse project for each component. A single project for the whole platform? Yikes. |
| 22:40.38 | lethalcode | sfuentes: Right, I'll keep my eye out, but for now, that rhino-on-android project is on the backburner. |
| 22:40.45 | romainguy_ | andyross: having a single project works just fine |
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| 22:41.04 | stadlero | you can't use eclipse to literally build the system image, but you can use eclipse to edit all of the files, and since it does its own compiles "on the side", you get completion, refactoring, etc. |
| 22:41.31 | DJTachyon | romainguy: so what do I do if 4 G1's show up at my door? :) |
| 22:41.44 | stadlero | but you have to sort of go back-and-forth because you still have to use command-line make for the "real thing" and also for the circular dependencies (e.g. eclipse can't build from .aidl -> .java, or from resources -> R.java) |
| 22:41.46 | romainguy_ | DJTachyon: you call them :)) |
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| 22:41.46 | sfuentes | lethalcode: one more link: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/230193/what-can-you-not-do-on-the-dalvik-vm-androids-vm-that-you-can-in-sun-vm |
| 22:41.55 | cbeust_ | andyross: what works best in my experience is to have one project for the entire platform and just include the source files you are interested in |
| 22:41.58 | DJTachyon | heh .. especially if my account says $180 :P |
| 22:42.01 | DJTachyon | x4 |
| 22:42.04 | romainguy_ | cbeust_: same thing for me |
| 22:42.12 | spikebike | lethal one thing about dalvik is that you can't generate new code |
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| 22:42.24 | DJTachyon | alright well i have to go sand spackle in my bathroom .. later all :P |
| 22:42.31 | spikebike | so that rules out any language that does that like python, lisp, and I believe ruby |
| 22:42.56 | romainguy_ | this IntelliJ 8 is really cool |
| 22:43.11 | lethalcode | sfuentes: Hm. So I can compile .js files to davlik, but then can't use, e.g, eval(), load(), etc. |
| 22:43.27 | lethalcode | sfuentes: Is what I'm coming away from that second one with. |
| 22:44.22 | RyeBrye | romainguy - did you do any playing around on the home screen and using the accelerometer? i.e "shake to change screens" ... etc? |
| 22:44.37 | sfuentes | lethalcode: that was my interpretation as well. what do u think spikebike? |
| 22:45.03 | RyeBrye | romainguy - just for a 'impress your friends' kind of feature - I think it would not be great for usability in the long run though :) |
| 22:45.04 | romainguy_ | RyeBrye: there is a shake to change screen feature already |
| 22:45.09 | romainguy_ | it's been there since 0.9 |
| 22:45.11 | RyeBrye | Oh? |
| 22:45.15 | RyeBrye | romainguy - where is it? |
| 22:45.17 | romainguy_ | it's just disabled by default |
| 22:45.23 | romainguy_ | you have two ways to enable it |
| 22:45.27 | romainguy_ | change a constant in the code |
| 22:45.31 | romainguy_ | or change a system property |
| 22:45.41 | romainguy_ | if you do a setprop launcher.sensors 1 in the shell |
| 22:45.41 | spikebike | sfuentes, yeah, it's discussed in the google I/O dalvik talk as well |
| 22:45.45 | romainguy_ | -1+true |
| 22:45.47 | spikebike | no runtime generation of code |
| 22:45.51 | romainguy_ | and restart the acore process, it will be abled |
| 22:45.53 | romainguy_ | enabled |
| 22:45.54 | RyeBrye | cool :) |
| 22:46.18 | spikebike | at least not easily |
| 22:46.35 | spikebike | I guess you could port the dalvik/dex/java toolchain to the android platform |
| 22:46.35 | romainguy_ | I removed this feature for the 1.x branches though |
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| 22:46.52 | spikebike | then write a file, compile it, and install it ;-) |
| 22:47.26 | sfuentes | spikebike: cool. i still need to watch that video |
| 22:47.34 | spikebike | it's a good one |
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| 22:47.46 | spikebike | although I suspect most python code would work anyways |
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| 22:48.07 | sfuentes | spikebike: that's my goals ... python :) |
| 22:48.08 | spikebike | for all I know jython has that limitation already |
| 22:48.26 | spikebike | runtime generation of python code is legal, but not common afaik |
| 22:48.34 | sfuentes | so i'm thinking a slightly modified jython |
| 22:48.40 | lethalcode | heavily uses rhino on a server, likes javascript far more than java, was hoping for the same. Can live without eval()/load(). |
| 22:48.42 | sfuentes | would be the easiest way |
| 22:49.08 | spikebike | dalvik is a damn nice virtual machine I don't see why it shouldn't work |
| 22:49.26 | lethalcode | spikebike: It's a vampire. No reflection. |
| 22:49.35 | spikebike | my best guess is that dalvik on android is more efficient than jvms on similar hardware |
| 22:49.38 | spikebike | heh |
| 22:49.57 | lethalcode | hits the "laughter & applause" button on his (soon to be released) LaffTrack app on the g1. |
| 22:50.10 | alansj | I just successfully built my own boot image, flashed it, and booted to it. This allowed me to edit init.rc |
| 22:50.22 | RyeBrye | romainguy - what does launcher.opengl control? |
| 22:50.31 | mikez5 | Cool, so you removed the console from init.rc to fix the root exploit? |
| 22:50.36 | sfuentes | seems dalvik is more slim and sexy than jme ;) |
| 22:50.46 | alansj | heh, not yet |
| 22:50.52 | alansj | had to do more important things first |
| 22:51.02 | alansj | sadly, I learned that setting ANDROID_BOOTLOGO 0 doesn't get rid of the logo |
| 22:51.07 | alansj | bastards |
| 22:51.11 | wastrel | web gateway b0rked in NYC? |
| 22:51.37 | romainguy__ | RyeBrye: well it enables Home on top of OpenGL |
| 22:51.43 | mikez5 | the bootlogo is in the bootloader. There is support for a splashscreen in init, but I don't think it is used. |
| 22:51.44 | romainguy__ | at least it used to between M5 and 1.0 |
| 22:52.00 | romainguy__ | the API to enable OpenGL has been removed until we stabilize the implementation |
| 22:52.07 | alansj | so I wonder what ANDROID_BOOTLOGO is supposed to do |
| 22:52.10 | RyeBrye | gotcha |
| 22:52.28 | alansj | and I wonder if the bootloader is reading logo.rpe or something else |
| 22:52.38 | alansj | *logo.rle |
| 22:53.11 | spikebike | evil |
| 22:53.11 | mikez5 | use the source, Luke |
| 22:53.17 | fadden | alansj: where did you see ANDROID_BOOTLOGO referenced? |
| 22:53.19 | spikebike | RC30 update is being rushed outto disable root |
| 22:53.23 | lethalcode | romainguy__: Nuts. I was hoping I could use it to make a 3d shooting game using orientation sensor. |
| 22:53.23 | alansj | init.rc |
| 22:53.53 | romainguy_ | lethalcode: ?? you can do totally do that |
| 22:54.15 | romainguy_ | I was referring to the API that makes it possible to run the Canvas and the View API on top of OpenGL |
| 22:54.23 | romainguy_ | you can still use OpenGL directly |
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| 22:54.46 | wastrel | i just realized that right-handers must find the keyboard much more convenient than i do |
| 22:55.01 | jasta | wastrel: why? (i'm left handed) |
| 22:55.15 | lethalcode | romainguy_: Thought you disabled GL? |
| 22:55.20 | *** part/#android xc_legend (n=xc_legen@dyn-4-211.myactv.net) |
| 22:55.22 | fadden | alansj: I believe frameworks/base/libs/surfaceflinger/SurfaceFlinger.cpp uses the property "debug.sf.nobootanimation" now |
| 22:55.24 | wastrel | assuming they hold the device in their left hand, they just slide open the screen with their thumb and the keyboard is right there. |
| 22:55.28 | lethalcode | Oh, duh me. |
| 22:55.33 | lethalcode | isn't entirely here. |
| 22:55.42 | wastrel | jasta: for me, i'm holding it in my right hand, i slide open the kb and then need to turn the device to get at the keys |
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| 22:56.02 | romainguy_ | lethalcode: like I said, we disabled the ability to run the Canvas/View APIs on top of GL, not GL itself |
| 22:56.05 | jasta | wastrel: i hold it with my right hand and slide it up with my left hand or right thumb |
| 22:56.11 | lethalcode | But I was hoping I could use a canvas (to draw, e.g: guns, ammo, etc) on top of the gl. |
| 22:56.20 | mikez5 | grepping the code, it looks like ANDROID_BOOTLOGO does nothing. |
| 22:56.22 | jasta | i find it very comfortable to hold and use |
| 22:56.29 | romainguy_ | lethalcode: but then that'd be 2D, not 3D :) |
| 22:56.48 | fadden | mikez5: yes; see my previous remark |
| 22:57.21 | alansj | fadden: so where would I go about setting that prop? |
| 22:57.29 | lethalcode | romainguy_: Yeah. 2d heads up display with a 3d environment full of approaching zombies. And your G1's a mounted gun you have to use to prevent them from reaching you. (in 360 degree rotation, and maybe later add flying zombies?) |
| 22:57.37 | *** join/#android matt_c (n=mcroydon@gateway.sunflowerbroadband.com) |
| 22:57.46 | lethalcode | Or maybe I'll make it all 2d and fake the 3d view. |
| 22:57.55 | romainguy_ | lethalcode: you can do this in GL directly |
| 22:58.03 | romainguy_ | you can even draw with a Canvas on top of a GL view |
| 22:58.10 | romainguy_ | it'll be a bit slower though |
| 22:58.14 | fadden | alansj: init.rc has some "setprop" lines |
| 22:58.22 | alansj | ah yes |
| 22:58.22 | lethalcode | Okay, great. |
| 22:59.42 | RyeBrye | any game which requires you to spin 360 degrees to play it would be really tough :) |
| 23:00.00 | RyeBrye | It'd be cool though |
| 23:00.29 | romainguy_ | that's the grief I have with most iPhone games |
| 23:00.38 | romainguy_ | they make you move the phone around |
| 23:00.48 | romainguy_ | but because it's your screen, it makes the games just annoying to play |
| 23:01.02 | wastrel | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:01.24 | jasta | romainguy_: people get confused when you give them a ton of featurse in the phone. they forget how to write apps that make sense. |
| 23:01.26 | RyeBrye | yeah, If I were still in school I would hate those kind of games |
| 23:02.16 | *** join/#android matt_c (n=mcroydon@gateway.sunflowerbroadband.com) |
| 23:02.29 | fadden | It's like when CD-ROMs got built into game systems and suddenly everything was a shooter-on-rails. |
| 23:02.40 | romainguy_ | jasta: yeah we noticed :) |
| 23:02.58 | romainguy_ | fadden: with crappy green/blue screen videos :) |
| 23:03.15 | jasta | did you guys see the bubble level app? that thing is neat :) |
| 23:03.16 | RyeBrye | hates shooter-on-rails games |
| 23:03.23 | RyeBrye | Yeah, bubble-level is cool |
| 23:03.38 | languish | so use audio interface to know what your game is doing when the phone is being used to shake/spin/move around |
| 23:04.02 | RyeBrye | it works surprisingly well - except the vibrate-on-level feature needs to be fixed so that it doesn't read the sensor while it's vibrating - because it causes it to pulse constantly |
| 23:04.08 | languish | don't always need to keep eyes glued to screen |
| 23:06.57 | RyeBrye | klaxon looks like a cool alarm :) |
| 23:08.00 | alansj | fadden: it worked, although not as expected... now there's just no animation at all. I was hoping for console output. But still, cool! |
| 23:08.30 | fadden | alansj: your device should now boot 0.3 seconds faster since we don't have to animate anything. |
| 23:08.52 | alansj | hoorays |
| 23:09.07 | alansj | now to replace the power-on logo |
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| 23:15.16 | spikebike | is that possible? |
| 23:15.27 | spikebike | i.e. the iniit |
| 23:15.35 | spikebike | er initrd |
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| 23:24.35 | *** join/#android g1er (n=chatzill@c-67-161-176-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 23:24.36 | *** join/#android tanjir (n=orko@bas12-ottawa23-1177806516.dsl.bell.ca) |
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| 23:29.41 | TheSarge | anyone know if my client doesnt support ctcp but it does support raw commands is there a way to do ctcp commands? |
| 23:30.49 | spikebike | seems possible, but not practical |
| 23:31.31 | spikebike | which ctcp commands? |
| 23:31.59 | TheSarge | like version |
| 23:32.08 | TheSarge | those kind of commands |
| 23:33.33 | TheSarge | how did you geta cloak with 2 names in it? |
| 23:37.00 | *** join/#android Jeffkyjin_ (n=Jeffkyji@host-177-100.cs.hku.hk) |
| 23:40.59 | Delvien | anyone else have battery issues with the g1 . i bhave everything off pretty much and its draining really fast |
| 23:41.14 | *** join/#android Neverender (n=nbernard@153.33.24.37) |
| 23:41.51 | fadden | Delvien: do you have "adb" set up? |
| 23:44.56 | *** join/#android xc_legend (n=xc_legen@dyn-4-211.myactv.net) |
| 23:45.46 | ionstorm | how do I prevent google from auto updating my r00t axs |
| 23:46.28 | ionstorm | can the hosts file be hacked |
| 23:46.50 | spikebike | not sure if that helps |
| 23:47.13 | spikebike | iptables is enabled |
| 23:47.27 | cmonex | ionstorm: install recovery.img with custom public key compiled in |
| 23:47.37 | cmonex | and then the next update will hopefully fail :) |
| 23:48.00 | cmonex | assuming OTA here |
| 23:48.05 | spikebike | well it willl continue to check and download |
| 23:48.12 | cmonex | yeah.. |
| 23:48.18 | cmonex | if you delete the ota certs does that help? |
| 23:48.21 | cmonex | in security folder |
| 23:48.24 | spikebike | no |
| 23:48.31 | cmonex | oh, so what are those used for? |
| 23:48.48 | cmonex | (i didnt think it was for flashing, i assumed it was something to do with the downloading.) |
| 23:48.49 | spikebike | wl contiue to check and donload |
| 23:49.07 | cmonex | so remove the app that does the check&download.. i dont know which one it is? |
| 23:49.07 | RyeBrye | http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Preventing_OTA_Updates |
| 23:49.11 | spikebike | it checks after download |
| 23:49.23 | ionstorm | yea im going to remove the otacerts file |
| 23:49.35 | RyeBrye | I just moved mine |
| 23:49.36 | cmonex | "will at least prevent you from waking up one day to a phone that doesn't love you as much as it did the day before" |
| 23:49.38 | cmonex | lol |
| 23:49.41 | RyeBrye | :) |
| 23:49.51 | cmonex | oh well this link says nothing new |
| 23:50.02 | spikebike | i tried that it just keeps downloading failing and repeat |
| 23:50.04 | cmonex | a good fix would be remove the ota app too |
| 23:50.20 | cmonex | does no one know what is responsible for it ? |
| 23:50.24 | RyeBrye | Yes, anyone have a link for what does that? I think it's in the updater application, but I wasn't sure if updater provided additional functionality |
| 23:50.48 | cmonex | what do you call updater application? |
| 23:54.32 | *** join/#android jrsky (n=jrsky@user-12ld54d.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 23:55.08 | RyeBrye | there is a package called "Updater" in the packages directory |
| 23:55.13 | RyeBrye | (of the source build) |