IRC log for #arm-netbook on 20120206

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11:35.18*** join/#arm-netbook lkcl (~lkcl@host86-131-166-15.range86-131.btcentralplus.com)
11:35.18*** join/#arm-netbook mnemoc (~amery@shell.opensde.net)
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18:47.33edupreylkcl: anything exciting happening @ the factory this week?
18:49.38edupreyso hard waiting for the first board to exist
18:52.05lkcltell me about it.
18:52.10lkclno not yet.
18:52.17lkclbari has to do the layouts.
18:52.44lkclellen's actually been ill so hasn't focussed on working out the best connectors / parts
18:59.43edupreylkcl: ah, no worries, sometimes things take time -- will try not to be so impatient :)
18:59.50lkcl:)
19:01.19edupreylkcl: is there any way I can contribute software wise?  I suppose I pretty much need to get an a10 tablet to do anything just yet (maybe reverse engineering SD card / USB boot stuff)
19:01.50lkclyes that would help enormously - picking the same tablet that mnemoc has would do even better
19:02.22edupreylkcl: do you remember which one he has?
19:02.26edupreymnemoc: ping
19:02.45lkclnaah, but look on ibot.rikers.org and go through the logs (that's what it's there for)
19:02.53mnemoceduprey: ?
19:02.55lkclsee irc title
19:03.00lkclahh he's here anyway.
19:03.11lkclpokes mnemoc
19:03.21mnemocme? I'm always here... I don't have a life
19:03.33edupreymnemoc: still need help with the sd card stuffs?  what tablet do you have?
19:03.45lkcllol
19:03.58mnemoceduprey: aura fy-l1
19:04.17edupreyI need a tablet anyway to port webos to :)
19:04.30mnemocthere are better ones
19:04.44edupreymnemoc: figured I could get started reverse engineering the sd card boot code stuff
19:05.04mnemoceduprey: that would be awesome... but you don't need to buy the same junk I did :)
19:05.16edupreymnemoc: ah they all use same format?
19:05.20mnemocthere are some with 1GB of ram
19:05.36mnemoceduprey: according to hipboi they are all the same in the guts
19:05.38edupreymnemoc: what was that web site again that sells them?
19:06.19mnemocthere are a bunch, aliexpress sells many models... but that's more like an ebay (many sellers)
19:06.37edupreymnemoc: also would it help if I ran the windows software to make an SD card and dd'd you an image?
19:06.40mnemocmyefox also has many models
19:06.54mnemoceduprey: that would be great, sure
19:07.37mnemochttp://www.myefox.com/icoo-d90w-a10-ultrathin-android-4-0-tablet-pc9-7-inch-capacitive-screen-dual-camera-p-323119 <--- sexiest a10 tablet I've seen yet
19:10.16edupreymnemoc: how long to ship to US though generally?  weeks?
19:10.49mnemocfor anything bought on those cn/hk shops expect 3-4 weeks
19:11.20edupreyhmmm
19:12.14edupreymnemoc: yeah that one looks decent esp with $50 coupon
19:13.54mnemocin the mean time this is the home of mine http://www.lyxfsz.com/cn/products_view.htm?id=24
19:14.07A2Shedshttp://hothardware.com/News/Details-Emerge-About-the-Spark-LinuxBased-Tablet/
19:14.17A2Shedsanybody contact them yet?
19:14.36edupreyA2Sheds: ugh 512MB, what are these people thinking?
19:15.51edupreyA2Sheds: what's interesting worth caring about these guys when cheaper A10 tablets are available from china?
19:16.07A2Shedsjust more devs
19:17.13eduprey"A: Yes, we are aware of such great projects as Rhombus Tech's work with Allwinner on their A10 chipset. (I have an A10 device on my desk right here, actually, and have been evaluating it for a few months.) There is more than just a chipset at play to make a tablet, but it's a critical first step. We're also aware of the Mali open source driver initiative, and take our hats off to Codethink...
19:17.15eduprey...and Luc for that!"
19:18.12edupreyA2Sheds: at least it's more ARM and Mali devs, even if not A10  (not sure why not)
19:20.23A2Shedshttp://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-computers-7inch-A10-Android-2-3-Super-Tablet-PC-AllWinner-A10-video-chat-W0QQAdIdZ338537890
19:21.24A2Shedshttp://www.mixeshop.com/all-winner-a10-4gb512mb-tablet-pc-7-inch-capacitive-12ghz-android-23-hdmi-2160p_p995.html
19:23.00edupreyA2Sheds: ah nice, the canada one could potentially be here fast
19:23.09A2Shedshttp://www.ecrater.com/p/13701443/novo-7-advanced-android-tablet
19:23.50A2ShedsTennessee are they still in the US?
19:24.20A2ShedsBuy from us, get it this week,
19:25.00A2Shedshttp://www.ecrater.com/p/13789807/ainol-novo-7-allwinner-a10-android-23  from China but they take paypal
19:26.11edupreyA2Sheds: yeah the canada one looks to be a decent deal at $110 + shipping
19:28.08A2Shedshttp://www.globaloverseasdistributors.com/collections/frontpage/products/7inch-a10-android-2-3-super-thin-tablet-pc-allwinner-a10-capacitive-camera-hdmi-wifi-3g-video-chat
19:28.57A2Shedsthey have a few different models
19:31.26A2Shedsonly 512MB ddr2   :(
19:31.30A2Shedsddr3
19:31.48mnemocI've only seen one model with 1G
19:31.51edupreyyeah this  http://www.myefox.com/icoo-d90w-a10-ultrathin-android-4-0-tablet-pc9-7-inch-capacitive-screen-dual-camera-p-323119  is the only one I've seen with 1g yet
19:32.23A2Sheds$259 in USD?
19:32.52edupreyyeah, though with $50 off for registering it's a bit easier on the budget also
19:32.54mnemocsure it costs more, but has far better screen too
19:33.26mnemocit all depends if you want the cheapest possible, or actually a tablet you would want to USE
19:33.29edupreyA2Sheds: is RAM on A10 POP?
19:33.53A2Shedsyou can sell it in 3 months as the first dev platform that revolutionized open source hardware for $1k
19:34.05eduprey:)
19:34.21A2Shedsno POP with A10
19:34.29A2Shedswish they did
19:34.39mnemocwhat I find most annoying the the china ARM based ce is that their goal is to sell cheap junk
19:34.42A2Shedsmaybe after we build the first million cards?
19:34.52edupreyA2Sheds: guessing it's BGA?  would be nice to be able to upgrade these things
19:34.58mnemocwhile adding few $$ they could build really good stuff
19:35.11edupreyA2Sheds: the RAM specifically
19:35.46A2Shedsmnemoc: people I meet don't know how or can't tell the difference
19:36.16edupreyA2Sheds: well they can usually tell if the screen looks good or bad and if the box runs fast or slow
19:36.28edupreywithout needing to know the tech specs
19:36.32A2Shedsor one group built them and somebody else is selling them
19:37.29mnemocbtw, in aliexpress there are more models with 1GB
19:38.00mnemocA2Sheds: what I mostly miss is build quality, more robust construction
19:38.13mnemocA2Sheds: and ram
19:39.03A2Shedsit's the same approach with sales as it is with engineering, 1K monkeys they just throw lots of people at it
19:39.36edupreymnemoc: omg, china is insane.   AllWinner(1643)
19:39.44edupreyie that many products?
19:40.03mnemoceduprey: aliexpress is like ebay, many sellers of the same product
19:40.08edupreyahhh
19:40.15mnemoceduprey: search for allwinner a10 1gb
19:40.38mnemoc"only" 352 items
19:41.17edupreyhmmm novo 7 ELF is 1gb?
19:41.42mnemocthey may have different models of it
19:42.04edupreyyeah looks like ELF is 1.5ghz 1GB RAM
19:42.08edupreynot bad
19:42.53mnemoceduprey: if you are in the US you can buy using fancy couriers without getting punished on arrival
19:43.15mnemoceduprey: and so receive your products faster without paying the double of taxes
19:43.24mnemocon*
19:43.57A2Shedshttp://www.merimobiles.com/Ainol_NOVO_7_ELF_ICS_4_0_8GB_1GB_RAM_1_5GHz_CPU_p/meri0728.htm
19:44.01A2Shedsin Canada
19:44.09mnemocplease note on aliexpress the "minimal order" field
19:44.21mnemocA2Sheds: afaik they ship from hk
19:46.04A2Sheds1-800-204-0883 for 15 more minutes today
19:46.16A2Sheds10am - 3pm eastern
19:46.36A2Sheds1GB ddr3
19:46.48mnemocand what does that tell about the location of their warehouse? :)
19:47.20A2ShedsI've ordered from them before
19:47.53mnemoc:)
19:47.58A2ShedsI can punch somebody in the nose in Montreal a lot easier than China :)
19:48.17mnemocabsolutely :)
19:48.56A2Shedsanyway back to work for me bbl
19:50.00edupreyA2Sheds: Availability:: **As of Now Will Ship After the Chinese New Year**
19:50.42mnemocbtw, at the end, what will be the way to get jtag on the a10 eoma-68 cards?
19:50.51edupreyA2Sheds: they're in canada with warehouses in HK?
19:51.17mnemoc*very* likely
19:51.54mnemocand also thanks to the power of voip you can get a number on any country you want directed to your callcenter in china
19:53.02mnemocok, not callcenter.... your own room near shenzhen :p
19:53.29A2Shedshttp://maps.google.com/maps?q=550+rue+Sherbrooke+Ouest+suite+980A+Montreal,+Quebec&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x4cc91a463b35d2df:0x4515ff16d71ab57c,550+Rue+Sherbrooke+Ouest+%23980a,+Montr%C3%A9al,+QC,+Canada&gl=us&ei=ki8wT5zkG9Poggfvh6DNDw&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CCAQ8gEwAA
19:54.23A2ShedsMcGill University, Montréal,
19:55.28mnemocso merimobile is the dropshipping business of a canadian student :p
19:56.43A2Shedsyou gotta watch those univ students
19:57.03mnemoc:)
19:57.21A2Shedsclasses, beer parties, cheerleaders
19:58.57A2Shedsso if you order a tablet now, it might show up a week or so before the first batch of cards are done
19:59.37A2Shedsoh well
19:59.51mnemocthat's why I feel buying one from aliexpress using DHL might be a better idea for him
20:04.44edupreyA2Sheds: yeah for $50 difference I can't see getting a lower clocked unit with half the RAM
20:04.57edupreyeven if it would be here a lot faster.. hmmm
20:11.15lkclmnemoc: the SD-card pins can be flipped over to JTAG and one UART.  so, one of those little SD-breakout-boards would do it.
20:13.05edupreylkcl: nice
20:13.22lkclit's the allwinner guys who are the bloody geniuses here
20:13.56mnemoclkcl: on any a10-based or on your design?
20:14.05lkcla10.
20:14.11mnemoc:o
20:14.22mnemoclkcl: any link to order one? :)
20:14.31lkclbeh? what? where!
20:14.56mnemoc"one of those little SD-breakout-boards"
20:20.58edupreyhttp://www.spectrumdigital.com/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=252  ?
20:21.00edupreypricey though
20:21.38mnemocthat deserves a big WTF
20:22.55edupreymnemoc: we could make a much cheaper PCB with traces like the microsd pins
20:23.57mnemoci asumed they already exist
20:24.25edupreyI imagine so but it's hard to google for them
20:25.15edupreymost micro-sd form factor breakouts are female, ie for prototyping things that accept microsd cards
20:26.53A2Shedshttp://www.embeddedworks.net/pdetail.php?mn=assy&prod=assy015
20:27.16A2Shedshttp://www.embeddedworks.net/pdetail.php?mn=assy&prod=assy014
20:28.20A2Shedshttp://www.hwtools.net/ExtenderBoard/TFEX.html
20:28.50A2Shedshttp://www.bplustech.com/extenderboard/SDEX.html
20:29.36mnemoccan we get something like this built at reasonable price and shipped together with the first batch of eoma68 cards?
20:31.04edupreyyeah $50 is closer to reasonable but still pricey
20:31.12A2Shedswe can try
20:31.19mnemocand you have to add shipping to that
20:31.43A2Shedsmicrosd pcb with a header
20:31.53mnemocbundling both, even if it's for $50, would make more sense than paying $50 to a third party
20:32.19mnemocA2Sheds: please consider most software hackers can't solder
20:32.29A2Shedswhats the interface from the dongle to your PC? should we just have a FTDI USB to SD board adapter?
20:33.22mnemocI have an ftdi based usb jtag/serial already
20:34.02A2Shedsoh you are lucky! But are people going to say that they need a USB to jtag next?
20:34.13mnemocvery true
20:34.14A2Shedswhre does it end?  :)
20:34.33mnemoca 2xserial to usb ic
20:35.13mnemocthis alone can become a nice product you could sell
20:36.29edupreymnemoc: can you do JTAG with FT232R?
20:37.25mnemochttp://www.tincantools.com/product.php?productid=16134 <--- this I have
20:39.06mnemocI suppose that design can be "dumbed" to work as microsd
20:40.02mnemocschematics are there
20:41.30edupreymnemoc: ah yeah so 2232 I think is just dual port version of 232
20:41.41edupreywhich means USB JTAG should be really cheap
20:45.26A2Shedshttp://www.tincantools.com/assets/FLYSWATTER_REV-B.pdf
20:46.17mnemocA2Sheds: would it work?
20:46.37mnemoci mean, for the usb microsd-breakout for a10
20:47.09A2Shedsafaik if the SD pins are also JTAG
20:47.47A2Shedsbut how many people are going to need jtag?
20:48.10A2Shedsaren't we supplying them with all the hard parts already done?
20:48.44mnemocwithout jtag we can't debug the kernel or bootloader
20:48.44A2Shedshow many will mess with uboot or kernel drivers?
20:48.59A2Shedsok so 5 -10 of us
20:49.36mnemociiuic the a10 is not the only IC which would make use of this
20:52.26mnemocit would be a useful tool for any future eoma card too
20:54.12A2Shedsthe flyswatter is already out there for $50
20:55.05mnemocsure, but we miss how to connect both
20:55.43A2Shedssd PCB with a header on the extender
20:56.30A2Shedshttp://www.ecrater.com/p/3941047/keil-ulink-mini-usb-jtag
20:59.48mnemocthe flyswatter is nicer :)
23:31.05*** join/#arm-netbook eduprey (~chatzilla@ip70-173-29-15.lv.lv.cox.net)
23:43.07A2Shedshttp://www.merimobiles.com/Teclast_P76ti_1_5GHz_HDMI_8GB_7inch_5_points_Multi_p/meri0709.htm
23:43.20A2Sheds$119.99
23:43.38A2Sheds512MB ddr3
23:47.01*** join/#arm-netbook hipboi__ (~hipboi@221.4.213.95)

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