| 00:00.33 | hno | as you noted on my linux-allwinner repository. |
| 00:01.40 | hno | is getting a bit tired of waiting for a resize2fs to complete... |
| 00:01.41 | damo22 | hno: does this mean that the current development is now all in one place, ie linux-sunxi? |
| 00:02.02 | hno | linux-sunxi is the official repositories yes. |
| 00:02.14 | damo22 | ty |
| 00:02.32 | hno | but haven't moved u-boot development there yet, only "stable" releases. |
| 00:03.03 | hno | plan to do that after this development cycle. |
| 00:03.36 | damo22 | great stuff! |
| 00:09.28 | lkcl_ | hno: no it doesn't, that's the point. FEL mode the USB is producing "cannot set USB address" errors in the linux kernel. read/64 error 71 and so on. |
| 00:09.45 | hno | lkcl_, bad. |
| 00:10.12 | hno | I assume you have tried another USB cable? |
| 00:12.05 | penguin42 | and what are you powering the board from? |
| 00:18.31 | lkcl_ | hno: yes |
| 00:19.00 | lkcl_ | penguin42: 5V into the "AC in" and/or 5V into the USB-OTG |
| 00:19.05 | lkcl_ | both are the same result |
| 00:20.28 | penguin42 | lkcl_: Is it taking a sane amount of current - nothing silly? |
| 00:21.16 | penguin42 | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:37.27 | hno | would label it a dead board. Something very wrong somewhere. |
| 00:40.06 | penguin42 | almost worth checking the chip is on the right way round |
| 00:40.34 | hno | can only do that with schematis and layout available... |
| 00:40.44 | penguin42 | hno: Could compare it to cubieboard |
| 00:41.49 | hno | Yes you are right. Basic orientation is possible without any shematics. The DRAM should be "below" A10 when reading the text. |
| 00:42.29 | hno | lost the board picture link somewhere |
| 00:44.01 | penguin42 | I was thinking something more of checking power pins relative to pin 1 mark or the like |
| 00:44.16 | penguin42 | or impedence across USB (may have to be careful) ? |
| 00:45.37 | hno | http://rhombus-tech.net/allwinner_a10/news/ has the chip mounted righ at least. |
| 00:46.11 | hno | it's not posible to lay out an A10 board with DRAM on another side of the CPU without pulling a lot of hair. |
| 00:46.56 | penguin42 | oh well, good - I have seen that done once on a dev board; very embarassing :-) |
| 00:47.49 | hno | Whole that edge of the CPU and a bit more is almost only DRAM pins. |
| 00:49.12 | penguin42 | so if the host is trying to speak usb to it but it's failing then that must mean that something of the USB is connected and responding? |
| 00:50.12 | hno | Not neccesarily. Just enough so the usb port/hub thinks there may be something. |
| 00:50.40 | penguin42 | does that take much? |
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| 00:51.51 | hno | a resistor |
| 00:52.03 | penguin42 | ah, so nothing active |
| 00:56.29 | hno | somethign active is needed for accepting the address registration. |
| 00:57.07 | penguin42 | but did lkcl's board get that far? |
| 01:00.24 | libv | there are several issues with texturing and mipmapping on our arm binary drivers |
| 01:00.48 | libv | but i guess it would take someone REing this stuff to find out about them :( |
| 01:01.14 | penguin42 | libv: Well, a test suite - are there any GLES testsuites out there? |
| 01:01.52 | libv | RGBA8888 drops data at the edges for lower mipmaps if the dimension is uneven, and rounds too much when mipmapping |
| 01:02.59 | libv | rgb565 is bgr565, there is some weirdness in the top (red) channel (it seems to be rounding up), and its swizzling loses position in some cases |
| 01:03.19 | libv | penguin42: mipmapping is not set in stone |
| 01:03.59 | libv | so the standard is apparently rather hazy there |
| 01:04.17 | penguin42 | bad way to define a standard |
| 01:05.08 | libv | mipmapping is producing scaled down versions of the original texture to ease lookups when downscaling, saves a lot of overhead and bandwidth |
| 01:05.15 | libv | it is somewhat hw dependant |
| 01:06.45 | penguin42 | yeh, I know - but I don't see a reason it can't be standardised |
| 01:06.56 | damo22 | in linux-sunxi sunxi-3.0 what is a13_nuclear_defconfig? |
| 01:07.07 | libv | i do not think there is an interface for requesting the buffer at a given mipmap level |
| 01:07.08 | penguin42 | you see something like the MPEG stadards and that pretty much defines what it should look like |
| 01:07.30 | libv | apples and oranges. |
| 01:07.42 | penguin42 | libv: Well, if you try and render an apple and you get an orange.... |
| 01:08.14 | libv | penguin42: gl gives no guarantees of images matching 100% across both software or hardware implementations |
| 01:09.10 | damo22 | Warning: this gl image may contain nudity, even if the image rendered was fully clothed |
| 01:09.13 | libv | never has and never will, would be folly as well, as vendors try all sorts of tricks to squeeze everything out of their chips |
| 01:12.07 | damo22 | GL_UNDRESS_FILTER |
| 01:13.44 | penguin42 | libv: I'd accept a defined amount of maximum eror |
| 01:13.46 | penguin42 | r |
| 01:14.14 | libv | penguin42: define it then |
| 01:15.00 | penguin42 | hno: checking the dram location tells you there hasn't been a rotation, but doesn't check against a flip |
| 01:15.17 | libv | penguin42: also, i am pretty certain that no two mpeg decoder implementations produce 100% the same result |
| 01:16.06 | penguin42 | libv: I'm not sure, but the mpeg spec is basically written as pseudo code for a decoder, pretty neat like that |
| 01:16.08 | libv | and mpeg is rather trivial compared |
| 01:17.20 | penguin42 | libv: I'd go with something like a maximum pixel difference/ratio type thing, although tricky to do with rounding at the geometry side |
| 01:30.48 | techn_ | damo22: a13_nuclear_defconfig is android defconfig |
| 01:30.54 | techn_ | for a13 |
| 01:32.22 | techn_ | libv: are you sure that rendering different bit depths is bug in mali drivers? :) |
| 01:33.05 | techn_ | I'm not sure that framebuffer implementation is correct :/ |
| 01:34.03 | hno | penguin42, flip? |
| 01:34.58 | penguin42 | hno: left-right flip - i.e. reading the chip from underneath; unlikely |
| 01:35.30 | hno | with the design being done by wits-tech who have done most of the A10 designs out there... unlikely. |
| 01:36.03 | penguin42 | oh, ok, hadn't realised they'd done that they were the common one for lots of A10 |
| 01:36.45 | hno | is the reference design partner for A10. Anything deisgn related is referred to wits-tech. |
| 01:38.52 | penguin42 | oh right, ok, then the assumption is they haven't done anything stupid |
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| 01:41.39 | servili007 | Turl: almost done on that mk802ii config based on your zatab repo. I have dumps from stock files for the power profile, and the dvfs table from the script.bin I'll be using. What should I base my cpu.active, cpu.idle, and cpu.speeds on? |
| 01:42.48 | Turl | servili007: if we were vendors or soc makers we would have real values for those |
| 01:43.01 | Turl | servili007: as you aren't, do your best guesswork :) |
| 01:43.37 | Turl | they are just used for stats anyway, so it's not critical to have exact values |
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| 01:44.22 | servili007 | Turl: sounds good, I was afraid we'd be at a bit of a wall with that. running time_in_state didn't help much either. On another note, media_profiles.xml is mainly in place for the internal cameras, can I remove it altogether or might it be of use to future USB webcam support |
| 01:46.07 | Turl | I'm unsure if android will like it missing |
| 01:46.20 | Turl | keep it around, it won't hurt in any case |
| 01:46.32 | servili007 | fair enough |
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| 03:32.25 | damo22 | in summary from what i have learnt from this channel so far, A10 is possibly superior to A13 since it has Sata2 and support for >512Mb ram, and also the kernel sources are released under GPL by the manufacturer of the soc? |
| 03:33.55 | damo22 | or are the first two points related to the making of the boards that support the A10 |
| 03:38.12 | Turl | A13 doesn't have sata support, and the memory bus is crippled on purpose |
| 03:38.28 | Turl | that's why it's cheaper |
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| 03:39.06 | damo22 | Turl: ty |
| 03:40.24 | damo22 | i would be interested to see what a company like olimex would produce using an A10 |
| 03:40.50 | damo22 | maybe buy a board |
| 03:41.06 | Turl | it's probably going to be like their A13 board but with more ram :) |
| 03:41.21 | damo22 | sweet |
| 03:41.39 | damo22 | so where do i get the kernel sources for A10? |
| 03:41.55 | damo22 | are they GNU/linux or android? |
| 03:42.16 | Turl | https://www.olimex.com/Products/OLinuXino/A13/A13-OLinuXino-WIFI/ <- olimex's A13 board |
| 03:42.25 | damo22 | yes i saw that |
| 03:42.34 | Turl | damo22: https://github.com/linux-sunxi/linux-sunxi |
| 03:42.56 | Turl | they're linux (the kernel) |
| 03:43.09 | Turl | both GNU/ and Android are userspace |
| 03:43.14 | damo22 | does linux-sunxi have a finished implementation for the A10? |
| 03:43.51 | damo22 | i would imagine the code would be more developed than the A13 due to what hn_o told me |
| 03:44.22 | Turl | it works fine on A10 |
| 03:44.26 | Turl | but the code is ugly :) |
| 03:45.15 | damo22 | Turl: can you recommend which git branch i should use of linux-sunxi for A10 at the moment? |
| 03:45.42 | damo22 | as in the stable one, is it sunxi-3.0? |
| 03:48.54 | damo22 | what does remotes/origin/xxxx mean? sorry git noob here |
| 03:49.25 | Turl | yes, sunxi-3.0 |
| 03:49.40 | Turl | it means branch xxxx on the remote repository "origin" |
| 03:49.46 | Turl | "origin" is where you cloned from |
| 03:50.26 | Turl | you can see remote repositories with "git remote -v" |
| 03:50.48 | damo22 | oh ty |
| 03:50.59 | servili007 | I personally find that some of the sunxi-3.4 patches are specifically useful to what I'm working on, so check them yourself to see if you may need them |
| 03:51.26 | damo22 | excellent |
| 03:52.05 | Turl | 3.4 is certainly usable |
| 03:52.18 | damo22 | perhaps i will wait until olimex make an A10 board |
| 03:52.18 | Turl | it needs a bit of work on the usb stack |
| 03:53.12 | damo22 | i have a rpi for now, but its not adequate for my purposes |
| 03:54.07 | damo22 | how is sinxi-3.0 on the usb stack side of things? |
| 03:54.15 | damo22 | sunxi* |
| 03:54.44 | damo22 | usb is a main feature that i need (1.1) |
| 03:55.41 | servili007 | for OTG support, 3.4 works in cases where 3.0 doesnt, but otherwise, 3.0 should be okay |
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| 03:56.20 | damo22 | what is the difference between otg and regular usb? |
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| 03:57.06 | servili007 | otg ports are capable of both client and host modes typically. In my case, motorola lapdock support where the lapdock needs to feed power and peripherals in. |
| 03:58.17 | damo22 | i dont understand what usb in client mode means |
| 03:58.47 | damo22 | its a usb jack, like a regular jack, but feeds power in? |
| 03:58.54 | servili007 | for example a media player with a mini usb port, that port is operating as a client, and can't accept any connections |
| 03:59.13 | servili007 | it can't host a connection rather, but can be used with a host such as a PC |
| 03:59.47 | Turl | eg your feature phone has a client usb port |
| 04:00.02 | damo22 | oh for example the jack on my phone... |
| 04:00.07 | Turl | your tablet has usually an otg port |
| 04:00.26 | Turl | because you can plug stuff to it (a pendrive) and you can plug the tablet to your pc too |
| 04:00.48 | Turl | the pc is host mode only because you cannot plug the pc "to something else" |
| 04:00.51 | damo22 | understood |
| 04:01.02 | damo22 | OTG is handy then |
| 04:01.59 | damo22 | If i do not require OTG, is the regular host controller support working well on A10? |
| 04:02.18 | servili007 | In my experience, yes |
| 04:02.45 | Turl | yes |
| 04:02.54 | damo22 | i may need possibly 2x ports that can deliver 500mA |
| 04:03.25 | damo22 | i hope the olimex board will support this without requiring external hub |
| 04:05.18 | damo22 | this is exciting news |
| 04:05.49 | Turl | make sure you let the olimex people know :) |
| 04:06.10 | damo22 | will do |
| 04:08.31 | L84Supper | damo22: have you seen http://olimex.wordpress.com/tag/a10/ |
| 04:09.37 | damo22 | L84Supper: WOW no i havent |
| 04:09.49 | L84Supper | https://github.com/OLIMEX/OLINUXINO/raw/master/HARDWARE/A10-OLinuXino/A10-OLinuXino_Rev_A.sch.pdf |
| 04:10.26 | L84Supper | damo22: you can see the USB power circuit for yourself |
| 04:11.23 | damo22 | L84Supper: Thank you so much! I will try to read the schematic, although my circuit analysis is quite rudimentary as i am not a hardware guy myself |
| 04:11.55 | L84Supper | it uses a SY6280 USB power switches |
| 04:13.39 | damo22 | is says Iset=523mA |
| 04:13.43 | damo22 | it* |
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| 04:14.12 | damo22 | i assume this means there is a setting to configure the current and it is maxed out at 523mA |
| 04:14.29 | L84Supper | the resistor on the ISET pin to ground |
| 04:15.20 | damo22 | thats awesome |
| 04:16.11 | damo22 | is x/Rs = x ohms? |
| 04:17.54 | L84Supper | http://www.zpxic.com/manual/SY6280_Rev0.1_for_TS_COM.pdf |
| 04:18.22 | L84Supper | Current limit programming pin. Connect a resistor Rset from this pin |
| 04:18.22 | L84Supper | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:20.44 | damo22 | yep just saw that |
| 04:24.15 | damo22 | so you need a 13kOhm resistor :P |
| 04:25.42 | orly_owl | you need the internet! |
| 04:27.25 | damo22 | orly_owl: ? |
| 04:28.13 | damo22 | omg there is 13k wrtten on the spec |
| 04:28.20 | damo22 | i just missed it lol |
| 04:29.17 | orly_owl | meh, humour |
| 04:29.36 | damo22 | orly_owl: youre in melb right |
| 04:30.09 | orly_owl | correct |
| 04:30.11 | orly_owl | why |
| 04:32.18 | damo22 | me too |
| 04:34.27 | orly_owl | jolly good |
| 04:34.35 | orly_owl | got an a10 device? |
| 04:34.40 | damo22 | not yet |
| 04:34.47 | damo22 | waiting for olimex a10 |
| 04:34.56 | orly_owl | what is that |
| 04:35.01 | orly_owl | fine ill search for it |
| 04:35.06 | orly_owl | price? |
| 04:36.09 | damo22 | hasnt been made yet |
| 04:36.18 | damo22 | its on the cards |
| 04:36.54 | orly_owl | oh ok |
| 04:37.04 | orly_owl | a2000g not good enough for you huh? |
| 04:37.12 | damo22 | it will be called A10-OLinuXino |
| 04:39.09 | orly_owl | what will it have |
| 04:39.14 | orly_owl | ports/specs etc |
| 04:41.59 | damo22 | scroll up to the schematic |
| 04:42.32 | damo22 | 15:09:49 |
| 04:43.03 | orly_owl | aha |
| 04:45.49 | damo22 | the schematic says 2x [2Gb ddr3 ... ] |
| 04:45.57 | damo22 | i think it means 2Gb total |
| 04:46.22 | orly_owl | yeah sounds like 2 |
| 04:46.36 | damo22 | still thats heaps |
| 04:46.36 | orly_owl | gigabit network would be great |
| 04:46.45 | damo22 | i dont need gigabit |
| 04:46.46 | orly_owl | it is, yep |
| 04:46.56 | orly_owl | i just want gigabit <: |
| 04:47.13 | damo22 | 100 is plenty |
| 04:47.41 | damo22 | usb stack is more important for me |
| 04:47.52 | orly_owl | what is the stack thing |
| 04:48.00 | orly_owl | i read it is 4 or 6 or something |
| 04:48.16 | damo22 | so i can run a usb sound card without running into bugs |
| 04:48.22 | orly_owl | aha |
| 04:48.24 | orly_owl | sounds good |
| 04:48.38 | orly_owl | im guessing mk802 or mele might have such bugs |
| 04:48.43 | damo22 | idk |
| 04:48.49 | orly_owl | k |
| 04:48.57 | damo22 | rpi sucks for that |
| 04:49.07 | damo22 | (currently) |
| 04:51.47 | orly_owl | is there any possibility of usb 3 |
| 04:52.53 | damo22 | pfft |
| 04:53.01 | damo22 | who needs that |
| 04:53.14 | damo22 | :P |
| 04:53.25 | damo22 | it has sata |
| 04:53.48 | orly_owl | only one port though |
| 04:53.59 | damo22 | and? |
| 04:54.19 | damo22 | you dont ask for much do you? |
| 04:54.24 | damo22 | :P |
| 04:54.31 | orly_owl | whats the point if there's a bottleneck somewhere else? |
| 04:54.55 | orly_owl | i dont actually <: |
| 04:56.43 | damo22 | is there a datasheet for A10? |
| 04:57.31 | damo22 | think got one |
| 05:02.57 | damo22 | the allwinner datasheet isnt very specific |
| 05:03.01 | damo22 | lol |
| 05:03.15 | servili007 | welcome to working with allwinner |
| 05:03.36 | buZz | thank you it feels awesome |
| 05:03.43 | orly_owl | lol |
| 05:03.51 | buZz | did you guys see bunnie's laptop? :D |
| 05:04.11 | buZz | http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=2686 |
| 05:04.28 | buZz | you probably all already did :D |
| 05:05.40 | servili007 | buZz, can't say that I have, nice find |
| 05:06.06 | damo22 | wow nice |
| 05:06.16 | buZz | yeah he hinted on his blog earlier |
| 05:06.37 | buZz | i really like the future thats coming ;) |
| 05:06.57 | damo22 | i will buy one |
| 05:07.22 | buZz | if they ever go on sale ;) |
| 05:07.37 | damo22 | if it has open source drivers for everything |
| 05:07.47 | damo22 | and assuming its for sale |
| 05:07.48 | buZz | it doesnt |
| 05:07.55 | orly_owl | lol |
| 05:07.58 | orly_owl | oops |
| 05:07.59 | buZz | binary blobs around |
| 05:08.01 | buZz | but |
| 05:08.05 | buZz | they are not _needed_ |
| 05:08.46 | damo22 | i would love a laptop that boots in 2 seconds |
| 05:08.58 | buZz | just install MSDOS |
| 05:09.02 | orly_owl | lol |
| 05:09.03 | orly_owl | damo22: coreboot |
| 05:09.08 | buZz | yeah |
| 05:09.14 | buZz | coreboot MSDOS |
| 05:09.23 | damo22 | i have a few more requirements than that alone |
| 05:09.23 | buZz | that'll be within 1 secs |
| 05:09.25 | damo22 | lol |
| 05:09.28 | orly_owl | buZz: 'needed' like a10 doesnt need blobs for gpu |
| 05:09.48 | buZz | orly_owl: i still am a10-virgin, receiving a cubieboard soonish |
| 05:09.58 | orly_owl | ooh cubieboard |
| 05:10.06 | orly_owl | sounds good |
| 05:10.14 | buZz | yeah its sweet |
| 05:10.17 | damo22 | buZz: i am too, but im waiting for olimex's A10 board |
| 05:10.33 | buZz | hope cubieboard is better at running chromium than raspi :P |
| 05:10.37 | damo22 | http://olimex.wordpress.com/tag/a10/ |
| 05:10.59 | buZz | damo22: yeah i saw it |
| 05:11.06 | buZz | but i have no patience :) |
| 05:11.20 | damo22 | good things come to those with patience |
| 05:11.22 | buZz | if i discovered the odroid boards a couple hours earlier |
| 05:11.31 | buZz | i wouldnt have even ordered a cubieboard :P |
| 05:11.59 | buZz | damo22: you get the 10% good stuff, i'll settle for the other 90% ;) |
| 05:12.29 | orly_owl | does cubieboard have a case by default |
| 05:14.01 | ganbold_ | kind of glass cover from 2 sides |
| 05:14.07 | orly_owl | odd |
| 05:14.22 | damo22 | how do you power the sata poer |
| 05:14.27 | damo22 | port* |
| 05:14.40 | damo22 | as in the device that connects bia sata |
| 05:14.45 | damo22 | via* |
| 05:16.08 | orly_owl | externally i guess |
| 05:16.38 | buZz | damo22: there is a 5v power output for sata devices |
| 05:17.11 | buZz | i guess some drives dont need 12v? maybe 2.5" drives or something |
| 05:17.20 | orly_owl | yeah |
| 05:17.34 | orly_owl | only 3.5" drives need 12v |
| 05:18.12 | buZz | hmm ok |
| 05:19.00 | orly_owl | for mechanicals |
| 05:19.31 | buZz | think i have a 60gb 2.5" sata1 disk somewhere |
| 05:19.37 | buZz | should dig it up tomorrow :) |
| 05:20.18 | damo22 | im curious how the A10-OLinuXino will function with power button and reset button. like if power is removed and restored do you have to press a button to turn it back on |
| 05:22.42 | buZz | yeah i noticed some weird button presses happening in some A10 videos |
| 05:22.59 | buZz | like holding it for 4 secs to reboot. seems like this was ment to go in a phone? :) |
| 05:25.08 | buZz | hmm, cant find a cellphone with allwinner a10 core |
| 05:28.12 | damo22 | i am interested in using it as a headless server, |
| 05:28.23 | damo22 | therefore i dont want a button press to be required |
| 05:30.25 | damo22 | T1107A mini pushbutton thing is that a momentary switch or what? |
| 05:31.17 | damo22 | i wonder what would happen if you soldered the switch contacts shut |
| 05:31.49 | orly_owl | kaboom |
| 05:31.57 | damo22 | on the PWR_BUT |
| 05:32.02 | Turl | cubieboards boot by themselves when you apply power |
| 05:32.19 | Turl | you can halt them and they'll remain halted though until you press the power button |
| 05:32.36 | damo22 | this is expected behaviour for me |
| 05:33.33 | damo22 | if the olimex a10 board does this too, i will buy one |
| 05:34.10 | damo22 | since it ticks all the other boxes for me |
| 05:42.26 | ganbold_ | where I can find A10 interrupt registers? |
| 05:43.53 | ganbold_ | is https://github.com/myfluxi/linux-sunxi/blob/sunxi-3.0/arch/arm/mach-sun4i/include/mach/platform.h corect place to look for? I mean in terms of repo |
| 05:53.14 | Turl | if you don't want to look at code, you might find something useful on the wiki |
| 05:53.19 | Turl | http://linux-sunxi.org/A10/registers |
| 05:57.19 | damo22 | how would the usb ehci controller driver for A10 compare in performance to say the dwc_otg driver for RPI? |
| 05:57.46 | damo22 | in my experience dwc_otg is very buggy now |
| 06:06.09 | ganbold_ | Turl: there is nothing about INTC registers in wiki |
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| 06:19.52 | orly_owl | does this exist yet http://linux-sunxi.org/Mele_A3700 |
| 06:59.09 | Turl | orly_owl: it's the mele with 1G ram yeah |
| 06:59.21 | Turl | mripard: stefanro1 any of you around? :) |
| 07:02.15 | orly_owl | oh ok |
| 07:03.51 | Turl | http://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?SearchText=mele+a3700&catId=0&manual=y |
| 07:04.44 | Turl | the A1000G also has 1GB ram |
| 07:05.18 | orly_owl | and a2000g |
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| 12:45.33 | lkcl_ | does anyone know of a Micro-SD-based JTAG dongle that's available in the UK or Europe? |
| 12:45.40 | lkcl_ | i need one, quickly. |
| 12:58.54 | penguin42 | lkcl_: If you've got a jtag board can't you just tack the 4 wires onto the back of the sd socket? |
| 13:06.58 | lkcl_ | i don't have a jtag board - that's what i need |
| 13:08.15 | penguin42 | lkcl_: You have nothing that can drive jtag at all, or you don't have a microSD adapter for one? |
| 13:08.23 | Turl | http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=jtag :) |
| 13:08.46 | lkcl_ | thx |
| 13:09.31 | penguin42 | Turl: Why does that list 'Bath & Body Works Anti-Bacterial PocketBac Sanitizing Hand Gel Iced Gingerbread 29ML' and Carrs Water biscuits ? |
| 13:10.13 | jelly-home | because they know you all too well, penguin |
| 13:10.13 | penguin42 | I guess you can use a carrs water biscuit instead of veroboard.... |
| 13:10.14 | Turl | penguin42: because amazon |
| 13:11.18 | penguin42 | lkcl_: I think you need to ask what you need to drive it from as well |
| 13:11.34 | penguin42 | lkcl_: Are you driving it from openocd, want something that comes with software or what? |
| 13:12.49 | penguin42 | <breakfast> |
| 13:15.55 | rz2k | lkcl_: just request the gerbers from hipboi and order one @ local pcb manufacturing |
| 13:16.20 | lkcl_ | looks like i want an openocd |
| 13:16.25 | lkcl_ | rz2k: i need one yesterday |
| 13:17.04 | rz2k | usually 'quick prototype' services do pcbs in days |
| 13:17.31 | rz2k | or just desolder the slot and solder wires to the pads of the slot |
| 13:36.46 | buZz | gingerbread flavoured anti-bacterial handgel? |
| 13:36.52 | buZz | this world is going to hell |
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| 14:10.56 | penguin42 | lkcl_: do you have one of the ftd usb serial/jtag leads ? |
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| 14:28.45 | buZz | would there be interest in a opengl <> opengles translator? |
| 14:28.53 | buZz | i guess there would be |
| 14:29.06 | buZz | but could we crowdsource money to develop a (L)GPL one? |
| 14:49.00 | libv | buZz: and now look up waffle. |
| 14:49.20 | buZz | A waffle is a batter-based or dough-based cake cooked in a waffle iron patterned to give a characteristic size, shape and surface impression. |
| 14:49.49 | libv | http://lmgtfy.com/?q=waffle+opengl |
| 14:50.14 | buZz | thats not a wrapped |
| 14:50.17 | buZz | wrapper* |
| 14:50.20 | penguin42 | hmmm waffles |
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| 14:52.42 | libv | ok |
| 14:54.21 | libv | i suggest that you start with glapitrace or tracy then, and find out how they create their wrappers |
| 14:54.47 | libv | that is, to scratch your own itch, whatever the real itch behind it is then |
| 14:54.49 | buZz | well that wasnt my question ;) |
| 14:55.10 | buZz | i just think that all this opengles is adding unneeded complexity |
| 14:55.17 | libv | ? |
| 14:55.30 | buZz | there is nothing in opengles that couldnt be in opengl |
| 14:55.37 | libv | haha |
| 14:55.37 | buZz | so why do we need two specs |
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| 14:55.49 | libv | buZz: opengles tends to be a _cut down_ opengl |
| 14:55.56 | libv | not the other way around |
| 14:56.07 | libv | usually, what you can do in gles, you can do in the equivalent gl |
| 14:56.10 | libv | without changes |
| 14:56.20 | libv | the other way round does not tend to work |
| 14:56.40 | buZz | not directly |
| 14:57.03 | libv | ? |
| 14:57.31 | buZz | a wrapper would allow software to emulate the missing functions |
| 14:58.11 | libv | wow |
| 14:58.52 | libv | ah, no, let me try it from another angle |
| 14:58.59 | libv | buZz: name an example. |
| 14:59.04 | libv | buZz: make it concrete. |
| 14:59.25 | buZz | ok so, you want to run some opengl application, say openscad |
| 14:59.39 | libv | which function do you want to emulate. |
| 14:59.41 | buZz | currently you would have to either remove all the opengl calls that are not supported |
| 14:59.49 | buZz | and rewrite all the others to opengles |
| 15:00.09 | libv | did you read that "make it concrete" bit? |
| 15:00.11 | buZz | but a wrapper would allow you to compile against the wrapper which takes care of them both |
| 15:00.26 | buZz | i am no construction worker |
| 15:00.40 | libv | don't just halfarsedly complain "boohoo, i cannot run my program on my allwinner machine as the gl version does not match" |
| 15:00.57 | buZz | i dont have an allwinner machine yet |
| 15:01.12 | buZz | just contemplating solutions to problems i dont experience ;) |
| 15:01.13 | libv | buZz: i am the main developer of the lima driver |
| 15:01.22 | buZz | what is lima? |
| 15:01.32 | libv | goodbye. |
| 15:01.32 | buZz | ah in peru |
| 15:01.47 | buZz | ah the opensource mali driver |
| 15:04.16 | penguin42 | libv: Have you written that up in the form of a datasheet/programming instructions ? |
| 15:04.36 | libv | penguin42: you too need to do some googling. |
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| 15:05.05 | penguin42 | libv: Oh I'm sorry, I could ask the person who knows and is here - sure I can google; please don't be so abrasive |
| 15:05.35 | buZz | some ppl just are ;) |
| 15:05.45 | libv | penguin42: why would i have written a datasheet? |
| 15:05.53 | libv | why would i have written programming instructions? |
| 15:06.20 | jelly-home | because documentation is nice. |
| 15:06.22 | libv | which driver developer ever does such things? |
| 15:06.30 | libv | when there is a millions things to do |
| 15:06.35 | penguin42 | libv: Because on a lot of reverse engineered projects they keep it safer by having one person do the reverse engineering to a datasheet and then a separate one write the driver based on those instructions, that way the guy who writes the free code never deals with the closed code |
| 15:06.38 | libv | and only a few people to do it |
| 15:06.51 | libv | penguin42: if that is your question, then you very definitely need to do some googling. |
| 15:07.01 | libv | penguin42: start by watching the fosdem video. |
| 15:07.06 | buZz | libv: if you keep treating ppl this way, you will never get more ppl in your team :) |
| 15:07.14 | penguin42 | agrees with buZz |
| 15:07.40 | libv | you definitely do not want to read what i almost typed up now |
| 15:07.48 | buZz | sticks & stones |
| 15:08.07 | libv | penguin42: i have been working on this for soon 2 years |
| 15:08.13 | penguin42 | libv: Yep, I know |
| 15:08.24 | libv | penguin42: i made up a very detailed plan of attack in Q2 2011 |
| 15:09.11 | libv | for command stream, there is no ip there, just how to drive the hw, i am free to do whatever i want as long as i do not breach copyright |
| 15:09.36 | libv | for compiler: this where optimizations and tricks happen, this is where most of the ip is, if there is any |
| 15:09.41 | penguin42 | libv: I think that depends how anal the lawyers are; and separating it into docs and then writing from the docs is the safer way |
| 15:09.57 | libv | penguin42: i have been developing graphics drivers for the past decade |
| 15:10.08 | libv | penguin42: you might have heard of the free driver and documentation for ATI |
| 15:10.33 | penguin42 | libv: And the free ATI driver is very nice, and my other machine is happily showing a video on it |
| 15:10.44 | libv | penguin42: do you really think that i have no clue about ip/lawyer issues? |
| 15:11.00 | penguin42 | libv: I have no idea about your knowledge of ip/lawyer issues |
| 15:11.39 | libv | penguin42: there is a section in my fosdem talk where i talk about these things. |
| 15:11.42 | libv | if only you had googled. |
| 15:12.38 | penguin42 | you could have just done a straight reply |
| 15:12.52 | jelly-home | but then you'd have been deprived of a rant |
| 15:13.02 | penguin42 | jelly-home: True |
| 15:13.14 | libv | penguin42: what should i have answered? |
| 15:13.24 | libv | "shut up, i know what i am doing" |
| 15:13.33 | libv | anything else would not have satisfied you |
| 15:13.41 | libv | without writing a novel |
| 15:14.42 | penguin42 | From a private message: '(15:14:18) libv: just so that you can stfu completely... |
| 15:14.49 | jelly-home | something like "these things are detailed at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2hF9BwsgmU" |
| 15:14.53 | jelly-home | or whatever |
| 15:15.23 | libv | penguin42: you better not paste the next line, as i do not want that to be shown in the publically logged channel. |
| 15:15.45 | jelly-home | ... the right video link is |
| 15:15.49 | penguin42 | libv: I'm not under NDA with you, if you start a rant with me then I'll paste whatever I like |
| 15:16.22 | penguin42 | libv: Of course you could just say that 'it's fine I've spoken to some lawyers, and they're happy' or whatever, but don't just start a rant |
| 15:16.43 | libv | penguin42: how is that different from "i know what i am doing" |
| 15:16.59 | libv | penguin42: because you clearly have never dealt with companies over graphics ip issues. |
| 15:17.20 | penguin42 | libv: I've dealt with companies with reverse engineering ip issues, but not graphics ip issues |
| 15:17.28 | libv | i do not believe it. |
| 15:17.54 | penguin42 | libv: Well, don't believe it then; what I've always been told is the safe way which I started this conversation with |
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| 16:16.29 | lkcl_ | buZz, libv, penguin42: peace! we're all on the same side here |
| 16:17.20 | buZz | hugs everybody |
| 16:17.31 | penguin42 | gives buZz a herring |
| 16:17.51 | buZz | omnomnom |
| 16:17.59 | buZz | dutch sushi! |
| 16:18.45 | Turl | my netbooting cubie somehow wanted to pull my x86 netboot image |
| 16:19.03 | Turl | manual netbooting works wonderfully though |
| 16:19.06 | orly_owl | it's an optimisit |
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| 16:21.59 | ssvb | hi, does anybody know if it makes sense to become a "registered member" at http://www.allwinner.com/catalog/product/download.php ? |
| 16:23.49 | lkcl_ | :) |
| 16:24.13 | ssvb | at least the Allwinner is providing the datasheet for unrestricted download at http://www.allwinner.com/Downloads/Datasheets/20110822_AllWinnerA10_Datasheet.pdf |
| 16:24.44 | Turl | confidential-stamped datasheet for free download? :P |
| 16:25.29 | lkcl_ | niiice. good touch that |
| 16:25.44 | ssvb | maybe the "confidential" status has been lifted, but the document itself has not been updated :) |
| 16:26.56 | ssvb | I think have seen a similar "confidential" stamp in the pdf files provided for free download by TI and the other vendors |
| 16:27.29 | aholler_ | it makes such documentation valuable ;) |
| 16:27.48 | aholler_ | +more |
| 16:27.53 | Turl | o.O http://www.allwinnertech.com/en/awt/news/2012-10.html |
| 16:28.40 | Turl | anyone going @CES 2013? |
| 16:28.41 | Turl | http://www.allwinnertech.com/en/awt/news/2012-12-1.html |
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| 16:29.33 | penguin42 | assumes that's a quad A7, seems to be the cheap way of being able to say 'Quad core - it must be fast' |
| 16:29.59 | Turl | yeah, it's a quad a7 indeed |
| 16:30.06 | Turl | 'ultra low power' :) |
| 16:33.08 | penguin42 | http://www.cnx-software.com/2012/12/16/135-armbrix-exynos-5-dual-cortex-a15-development-board/ |
| 16:37.20 | lkcl_ | allwinner's web site ain't exactly fast, is it? i keep getting "service unavailable"... |
| 16:38.17 | penguin42 | lkcl_: Yeh I'm seeing that now; but don't forget now that link was pasted there's at least 3 of us accessing it at the same time |
| 16:38.24 | buZz | there are cheaper Exynos boards now |
| 16:38.32 | buZz | http://www.hardkernel.com/renewal_2011/products/prdt_info.php?g_code=G135341370451&tab_idx=1 |
| 16:38.38 | buZz | this one mainly holds my fancy |
| 16:39.02 | lkcl_ | penguin42: all 3 of us? *shock*, *horror* |
| 16:39.08 | penguin42 | yeh they've all got slightly different tradeoffs |
| 16:39.13 | penguin42 | lkcl_: It's probably running on an a10 |
| 16:39.20 | lkcl_ | penguin42: then i'm impressed |
| 16:39.30 | penguin42 | with the data on a well used SD card |
| 16:39.46 | buZz | not even tmpfs? :D |
| 16:39.50 | lkcl_ | btw i've been speaking to kevin of Insignal - he's designing a PC based around the Exynos5 |
| 16:39.58 | buZz | lkcl_: ATX board? |
| 16:40.12 | buZz | i would love a mini-itx sized ARM motherboard |
| 16:40.18 | buZz | with normal VGA/DVI output |
| 16:40.22 | lkcl_ | buZz: bit smaller. sale price of $145. |
| 16:40.49 | buZz | sale price is irrelevant if its AWESOME |
| 16:40.50 | buZz | ;) |
| 16:40.54 | lkcl_ | :) |
| 16:41.19 | buZz | exynos has pci-e right? |
| 16:41.38 | penguin42 | some of them |
| 16:41.54 | buZz | nice, i figure for a PC board you would want pci-e |
| 16:42.08 | buZz | if even just to have a gbit ethernet chip on it |
| 16:43.11 | lkcl_ | apparently the dual-core exynos5 doesn't have PCIe |
| 16:43.13 | penguin42 | buZz: I kind of fancy this; http://www.globalscaletechnologies.com/p-58-mirabox-development-kit.aspx |
| 16:43.43 | lkcl_ | java??? are you feeling all right, penguin42? |
| 16:44.09 | buZz | penguin42: it looks a bit dated |
| 16:44.18 | penguin42 | lkcl_: No, forget the java |
| 16:44.23 | buZz | lkcl_: well, no point in not using a quadcore version :D |
| 16:44.30 | penguin42 | lkcl_: But it's an ARM with 2xGbE and USB3 |
| 16:45.16 | penguin42 | lkcl_: Oh and it's got mini-pcie slot as well |
| 16:45.53 | penguin42 | (I was told they're not actually available yet even though it says now shipping) |
| 16:47.38 | buZz | but no sata :( |
| 16:47.56 | penguin42 | buZz: Yeh, but I figured with USB-3 it would be ok |
| 16:48.07 | buZz | hmm agreed |
| 16:48.08 | penguin42 | buZz: Or could bodge SATA on via the mini-PCIe |
| 16:48.18 | buZz | although probably, using USB for storage still sucks CPU |
| 16:48.28 | penguin42 | buZz: The bigger problem is that it's not a particularly fast cpu |
| 16:48.28 | buZz | whereas 'real' sata would be easier |
| 16:48.38 | buZz | penguin42: yeah that too, and just one core |
| 16:49.06 | penguin42 | buZz: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815158276 |
| 16:49.30 | buZz | that hostname always makes me think of easter |
| 16:49.41 | penguin42 | haha |
| 16:49.44 | buZz | ahhhh fancy |
| 16:49.58 | buZz | lol 'built in JBOD raid!' |
| 16:50.00 | buZz | yes yes |
| 16:50.04 | buZz | you are awesome :) |
| 16:50.10 | penguin42 | knows that |
| 16:50.44 | penguin42 | buZz: There were also some mini-pcie to dual gige, so that would get it quad gigE which is what I was more interested in |
| 16:51.00 | buZz | ha awesome :D |
| 16:53.52 | ssvb | aholler_: I'm more worried about covering my ass and just want to be sure that nobody is going to prosecute me for developing software using this datasheet :) |
| 16:55.06 | ssvb | aholler_: as it's freely available from the allwinner website, it can't really be confidential? |
| 16:55.19 | aholler_ | it's just a word |
| 16:55.26 | aholler_ | imho ;) |
| 16:57.09 | penguin42 | ssvb: If you want to cover your ass then just ask them |
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| 17:03.12 | penguin42 | lkcl_: http://cpc.farnell.com/olimex/arm-usb-ocd/debugger-arm-jtag-open-source/dp/SC09998?in_merch=Products%20From%20This%20Range&MER=e-bb45-00001003 |
| 17:03.47 | buZz | maybe its confidential in the way that you could tell that document anything and it will never tell anyone about it |
| 17:04.43 | penguin42 | lkcl_: Or maybe, http://cpc.farnell.com/olimex/avr-jtag-usb/emulator-prog-optoisolated-jtag/dp/SC09589?in_merch=Products%20From%20This%20Range |
| 17:05.06 | penguin42 | lkcl_: cpc can normally do next day, or may even be able to get from sales counter if you're close |
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| 17:10.44 | aholler_ | if you buy such, get the arm-ubs-ocd-h instead of the old one. |
| 17:12.33 | penguin42 | trust aholler_ - I only found those by searching |
| 17:14.18 | penguin42 | it's interesting, if cpc are selling olimex stuff, I wonder if they'll sell any of there stuff |
| 17:16.12 | ssvb | penguin42: well, the same pdf is also linked from http://www.allwinner.com/A10_SOC.php and asking for an additional confirmation may be just too paranoid |
| 17:17.01 | penguin42 | ssvb: In the end it all just comes down to how much you worry about your ass, I'd agree with you it feels safe, if you work for someone who is more paranoid then just ask them |
| 17:19.56 | penguin42 | it would be very neat if cpc just sold Olimex's A13 board |
| 17:20.28 | penguin42 | (Is A10S something different from A10?) |
| 17:21.14 | lkcl_ | penguin42: ace! |
| 17:21.53 | penguin42 | hmph A31 uses Power VR |
| 17:23.20 | penguin42 | oh, A10s is different, it's got a lower spec video decoder and in a smaller package |
| 17:27.31 | penguin42 | I like the lvds/vga conversion on the olimex boards - sets of 74alc244 with resistors as d-a |
| 17:27.43 | penguin42 | sorry, lcd not lvds |
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| 18:38.56 | buZz | http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=35469999#post35469999 |
| 18:39.13 | buZz | Root exploit on Exynos |
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| 18:41.45 | penguin42 | buZz: Sigh |
| 18:42.00 | buZz | just in samsung kernel though :P |
| 18:42.27 | Jef91|Building | anyone around played with the newest samsung chromebook? |
| 18:43.01 | *** join/#arm-netbook anddam (~andrea@199.19.224.42) |
| 18:43.22 | penguin42 | buZz: And this is why it takes so long to get stuff merged upstream, people spot the problems |
| 18:43.57 | buZz | penguin42: i would say thats a good thing |
| 18:44.01 | penguin42 | Jef91|Building: I've heard mostly good things about them, although apparently there is a bit of a fuck up on the audio that if you play around with your own kernels/alsa settings (even on their build) you can smoke one of the speakers |
| 18:44.03 | penguin42 | buZz: Nod |
| 18:44.18 | penguin42 | buZz: Pretty much the same as Nvidia did I think |
| 18:44.23 | buZz | wow, nice amplifier :D |
| 18:45.11 | Jef91|Building | penguin42: I have one, it is pretty nice |
| 18:45.26 | Jef91|Building | Just some issues with the trackpad drivers on Debian |
| 18:45.33 | specing | buZz: laughed my pants off |
| 18:46.44 | ssvb | Jef91|Building: just the chromebook keyboard sucks because of some missing keys, it was clearly designed as a "gadget" instead of real "computer" |
| 18:46.54 | penguin42 | Jef91|Building: Yeh, watch out for http://code.google.com/p/chromium-os/issues/detail?id=37217 |
| 18:47.39 | *** join/#arm-netbook lkcl_ (~lkcl@host-92-26-28-29.as13285.net) |
| 18:48.40 | ssvb | Jef91|Building: also SD card does not fully fit the slot and sticks out, which means it's very inconvenient if you want to upgrade storage capacity |
| 18:49.23 | Jef91|Building | ssvb: The only key I really find lacking on it is a "Delete" key |
| 18:49.28 | Jef91|Building | EVerything else pretty much is there |
| 18:49.52 | buZz | specing: on what? :) |
| 18:50.09 | specing | the /dev/exynos-mem mode 666 |
| 18:50.32 | penguin42 | specing: It's not so much the fact it's 666 - which is an easy fix, it's the fact that it suggests it needs it to be |
| 18:50.33 | buZz | heh yes :) |
| 18:51.00 | buZz | probably because on android every process is a different user |
| 18:51.39 | ssvb | Jef91|Building: I'm missing a lot more keys (pgup/pgdown/home/end/ins/del and even capslock), it's fine for the "first" cortex-a15 based device, but I would clearly prefer something better even if it means higher price |
| 18:51.46 | *** join/#arm-netbook rellla (~Thunderbi@p4FE56550.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:52.48 | penguin42 | ssvb: You mean like a really nice keyboard, and the display from the Nexus 10 ? |
| 18:53.17 | Jef91|Building | ssvb: yea, I know it is missing all those - only of them I use on a daily basis is delete though |
| 18:54.32 | ssvb | penguin42: yes, something like this, and also maybe sata for ssd |
| 18:55.42 | buZz | thats why i like lapdock, it has all the keys :P |
| 18:57.10 | penguin42 | ssvb: And a moon-on-a-stick :-) |
| 18:58.37 | ssvb | penguin42: nah, better quad cortex-a15 instead :) |
| 18:59.36 | buZz | wtf moon-on-a-stick :D |
| 19:00.50 | penguin42 | buZz: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=moon%20on%20a%20stick |
| 19:02.07 | buZz | ah :) |
| 19:02.16 | buZz | learn something new each day \o/ |
| 19:03.16 | penguin42 | buZz: We try and teach you all the critical information that you can need from day to day |
| 19:03.44 | buZz | 'toilet on the left, kitchen on the right, emergency exists to the side' |
| 19:03.58 | buZz | ehr |
| 19:04.01 | buZz | exits* :P |
| 19:06.20 | *** part/#arm-netbook anddam (~andrea@199.19.224.42) |
| 19:59.25 | *** join/#arm-netbook hg_5 (~chatzilla@unaffiliated/hg-5/x-8664886) |
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| 22:09.16 | toxicpsion | anyone in here have any experience with a Vipad V7S tablet? |
| 22:10.09 | libv | toxicpsion: not likely. what is your real question about it? |
| 22:10.46 | *** join/#arm-netbook MouseTheLuckyDog (~mouse@adsl-76-193-164-98.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net) |
| 22:10.51 | toxicpsion | having problems with the rear cam, thought i'd see if it was a common problem |
| 22:12.00 | libv | toxicpsion: this tablet does not seem to be documented on our wiki |
| 22:12.24 | libv | toxicpsion: so i take it that you are still using the stock software on it? |
| 22:12.31 | toxicpsion | i know... was looking already (have a Gemei G2 and a mele too) |
| 22:12.33 | toxicpsion | yea |
| 22:12.52 | libv | also, drachensun has been sending in some fixes for some camera things |
| 22:13.06 | libv | he just made himself the camera expert :p |
| 22:15.32 | toxicpsion | it's a xmas present for my my daughter, unboxed it to charge, set up accounts, and install some apps. every camera app i install ends up with ' E/V4L2CameraDevice( 2665): VIDIOC_S_INPUT error! E/CameraService( 2665): Could not open camera 0: 1. :( |
| 22:17.12 | toxicpsion | on a side note..... quantal is fast from nand on mele /w e17 :) |
| 22:17.21 | libv | check the camera fix(es) drachensun sent in, maybe it is related |
| 22:17.58 | toxicpsion | they in git? |
| 22:18.15 | libv | ml |
| 22:18.18 | toxicpsion | k |
| 22:24.25 | toxicpsion | libv: any idea about when those fixes were posted? apparently i've been gone a bit.... 1400 unread in my ml folder *ack* |
| 22:25.25 | libv | last few days |
| 22:25.32 | libv | one of the last emails on the list i think |
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| 23:12.15 | hno | lkcl_, still fighting with your dead board? |
| 23:16.22 | servili007 | when compiling images using the A10 flash kitchen, which file equates to the userdata partition? |
| 23:38.23 | libv | hah, loading the serial driver after a reboot really only kills the serial port and nothing else. |
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| 23:49.54 | libv | yay, otg host mode is indeed fixed |
| 23:50.41 | damo22 | libv: seriously? |
| 23:51.06 | damo22 | :D |
| 23:51.18 | damo22 | i noticed the allwinner A10 has 8 Uarts |
| 23:53.18 | damo22 | 2 of them have RTS CTS and 1 has RTS CTS DSR DTR RING DCO |
| 23:54.44 | damo22 | but if you used them all as uarts, you wouldnt have much left to add other things |
| 23:56.53 | damo22 | also i have no idea how to select them as uarts |
| 23:58.23 | libv | host mode is bloody noisy again, i am sure that they are abusing printk again |