| 00:00.03 | *** join/#arm-netbook tinti_ (~tinti@pdpc/supporter/student/tinti) |
| 00:28.02 | *** join/#arm-netbook dyoung-away (dyoung@2001:4800:780e:510:7cfc:f3f0:ff04:36e3) |
| 00:28.06 | *** join/#arm-netbook lemonade` (~lemonade`@pool-71-178-51-174.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
| 00:28.11 | *** join/#arm-netbook dyoung (dyoung@nasadmin/dyoung) |
| 00:37.15 | *** join/#arm-netbook anunnaki (~anunnaki@c-98-235-83-1.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 01:10.40 | *** join/#arm-netbook stefanro1 (~stefan@p57B949B9.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 02:03.27 | *** join/#arm-netbook cnxsoft (~cnxsoft@node-15t.pool-118-172.dynamic.totbb.net) |
| 03:16.24 | *** join/#arm-netbook cnxsoft (~cnxsoft@node-tmi.pool-118-172.dynamic.totbb.net) |
| 03:26.10 | *** join/#arm-netbook rsalveti (~rsalveti@unaffiliated/rsalveti) |
| 03:34.59 | *** join/#arm-netbook herdingcat (huli@nat/redhat/x-zurzuohwumgskdjx) |
| 04:06.34 | *** join/#arm-netbook ZaEarl_ (~malmrose@c-67-166-109-0.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 04:22.51 | *** join/#arm-netbook aholler_ (~aholler@p57B2033B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 04:27.45 | *** join/#arm-netbook KoH__ (~kane@trir-5d805de9.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 04:49.33 | *** join/#arm-netbook anunnaki (~anunnaki@c-98-235-83-1.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 05:11.43 | *** join/#arm-netbook kaspter (~Instantbi@180.168.145.234) |
| 05:56.17 | *** join/#arm-netbook abesis (~abesis@217.131.206.192) |
| 06:02.02 | *** join/#arm-netbook eebrah (~chatzilla@212.49.88.102) |
| 06:06.15 | *** join/#arm-netbook gimli (~gimli@xbmc/staff/gimli) |
| 06:17.15 | *** join/#arm-netbook dfletcher (~fletch@108.196.222.251) |
| 06:17.39 | *** join/#arm-netbook ssvb (~ssvb@212.16.98.80) |
| 06:18.17 | *** join/#arm-netbook mSquare (~selvan@27.34.241.70) |
| 06:57.03 | *** join/#arm-netbook rellla (~rellla@p5B0783BF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 07:09.47 | *** join/#arm-netbook cnxsoft (~cnxsoft@node-tmi.pool-118-172.dynamic.totbb.net) |
| 07:31.45 | *** join/#arm-netbook pcat (~cat@37-219-42-37.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi) |
| 07:38.16 | *** join/#arm-netbook rz2k (~rz2k@95-25-199-38.broadband.corbina.ru) |
| 07:44.16 | *** join/#arm-netbook roric_ (~roric@c-9370e455.213-3-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 07:48.47 | *** join/#arm-netbook sspiff_ (c24e0469@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.78.4.105) |
| 07:53.08 | *** join/#arm-netbook cnxsoft (~cnxsoft@node-70p.pool-118-172.dynamic.totbb.net) |
| 08:01.21 | libv | submodules are quite the nightmare. |
| 08:02.39 | libv | and quite unreliable too |
| 08:03.00 | mnemoc | that's the one thing cvs was great |
| 08:05.45 | libv | one misstep and the whole thing goes haywire, with little hope of returning to normality or the previous situation |
| 08:07.11 | libv | rm -Rf and then a submodule update. great. |
| 08:07.11 | aholler_ | ? |
| 08:08.18 | aholler | no problem here with submodule, just that there should exist some magic to add own patches to them ;) |
| 08:09.16 | libv | ah, yes, i am sure that you can avoid the nightmare by not touching the submodule at all |
| 08:09.51 | libv | as soon as you need to, or if you are trying to split an existing repo into a superproject and a submodule, you immediately run into idiocy and broken concepts |
| 08:10.26 | *** join/#arm-netbook sspiff (c24e0469@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.78.4.105) |
| 08:10.27 | libv | aholler: so try editing both superproject and submodule, and then get back to me with "no problem here" |
| 08:11.20 | aholler | libv: I'm using them since quiet some years. what's your problem with such? |
| 08:12.32 | libv | git cherry-pick -n, and this translates to something resembling rm subproject |
| 08:12.45 | libv | aholler: basically, all the normal tools are pretty submodule unaware |
| 08:13.27 | libv | this while there is a clear split between main repo and the submodule |
| 08:13.54 | libv | meaning that submodules are fully manual, and pretty fragile |
| 08:15.21 | libv | then, you better be using a public submodule, and that one better not change ever, as then your repo is f-ed |
| 08:15.33 | libv | it's not tracked over remotes |
| 08:15.35 | libv | but... |
| 08:15.44 | aholler | sorry, I can't follow |
| 08:15.48 | libv | you cannot just clone the main repo and get the submodule separately |
| 08:16.00 | libv | err, s/separately/at the same time/ |
| 08:16.16 | libv | you have to manually fetch that one over some special incantations |
| 08:16.49 | libv | why, if the submodule repo is directly recorded in your repo? |
| 08:17.12 | aholler | because the mechanism to get it might be totally different |
| 08:17.21 | libv | and what stopped people from adding submodules as extra remotes? |
| 08:17.50 | libv | it's somewhere in between, which makes it crap |
| 08:18.09 | aholler | that would be even worse |
| 08:18.24 | libv | really? |
| 08:19.22 | aholler | yes, i would want that some remote is able to overwrite my stuff |
| 08:19.33 | libv | ? |
| 08:20.25 | libv | ok, current situation: you have .gitmodules in your top level of your repo |
| 08:20.41 | libv | it has a symbolic name, and it has a path, and then it has a url |
| 08:21.07 | libv | what is the url doing there? |
| 08:21.18 | libv | if the url is there, then git clone should know what to do |
| 08:21.23 | libv | but it doesn't |
| 08:22.17 | libv | you need: git submodule update --init |
| 08:23.04 | libv | what stops us from doing git submodule remote <symbolic name> <url> ? |
| 08:23.35 | libv | it's just halfarsed, and that halfarsedness is not limited to that. |
| 08:25.12 | libv | git commit could also be smart enough to first commit in the submodule locally, and only then in the superproject |
| 08:25.25 | mnemoc | totally agree |
| 08:26.05 | libv | git push should also be smart enough, etc. etc... |
| 08:26.15 | libv | it's halfarsed, across the board. |
| 08:26.23 | rm | git sucks |
| 08:26.31 | aholler | committing in a submodule makes only sense if it is under your control |
| 08:26.40 | aholler | and normally that isn't the case |
| 08:27.03 | libv | well, there are two options there |
| 08:28.07 | libv | either submodules and changes are tracked locally, giving you another remote to pull from cleanly. but that kind of beats the purpose of submodules, would just make pulling/merging easier for the tools to understand |
| 08:28.39 | libv | or... you are forced to have a submodule under your own control somewhere, a fork, and can pull/merge to that one separately |
| 08:28.50 | libv | the second makes the most sense in the git world |
| 08:29.17 | libv | what we have now, is, should i repeat myself once more? |
| 08:29.20 | libv | halfarsed. |
| 08:30.24 | libv | oh, a third option is to have submodules be read-only, that too would make sense |
| 08:30.51 | libv | now we really have something that is in the middle of all three sensible options |
| 08:31.38 | aholler | every of your options has it's own drawbacks |
| 08:32.05 | libv | heck. we could combine option 2 and 3, by adding a read-only option to .gitmodules |
| 08:32.35 | libv | and the top level tools should be smart enough to handle it for you, or complain loudly and refuse to do things |
| 08:32.48 | libv | aholler: sure, but now we have everything and nothing. |
| 08:33.04 | libv | aholler: and it's unusable and fragile. |
| 08:33.10 | aholler | I can handle it just fine. |
| 08:33.45 | libv | aholler: good for you and your apparently much more limited use-cases |
| 08:33.46 | aholler | but I'm sure someone would appreciate work on that topic |
| 08:34.08 | libv | goes back to splitting a small git history over a superproject and a submodule |
| 08:34.20 | aholler | libv: yeah, world isn't perfect, unfortunately |
| 08:34.54 | aholler | but at least there are submodules. |
| 08:35.02 | libv | aholler: also, i am supposed to be writing a mesa driver for mali-400 |
| 08:35.20 | libv | not redesigning git |
| 08:36.53 | aholler | maybe helping with git would make more sense, than writing a driver which should come from the manufacturer. ;) |
| 08:37.06 | libv | aholler: sure. |
| 08:37.10 | libv | that's how the world works. |
| 08:37.23 | libv | no wonder you are happy with git submodules today. |
| 08:37.28 | mnemoc | *g* |
| 08:37.42 | aholler | libv: there isn't something better |
| 08:37.57 | libv | aholler: which doesn't make it good |
| 08:37.58 | aholler | you could use rcs if you want |
| 08:38.12 | aholler | nobody forces you to use git(-submodules) |
| 08:38.14 | libv | aholler: i do not get along with keithp much |
| 08:38.28 | libv | aholler: what he did with modesetting when he joined intel in 2006 was shameful |
| 08:38.49 | libv | aholler: but... he stated "now everyone shut up, we now use git for everything" |
| 08:38.53 | libv | the best thing he ever did |
| 08:39.03 | libv | and i was the first to move my drivers to git back in 2006. |
| 08:39.30 | libv | git was really rather broken and halfarsed back then |
| 08:39.46 | aholler | yes, especially the submodule support ;) |
| 08:39.59 | aholler | I know those times too |
| 08:40.00 | mnemoc | loves git, but submodule integration is lame |
| 08:40.23 | libv | git does a lot of things well, submodules are a broken concept today. |
| 08:40.34 | libv | and... |
| 08:40.48 | libv | the way submodules are built up today, means that this cannot change either. |
| 08:41.04 | libv | there is simply no way to transition existing repos with submodules. |
| 08:41.39 | libv | really really poor design |
| 08:42.19 | mnemoc | git status/commit/push can be made aware of submodule without breaking compatibility |
| 08:42.54 | mnemoc | because the current state is unusable |
| 08:42.56 | libv | sha-ids are tracked in the repo, not in .git |
| 08:43.31 | libv | ah, no, they aren't... but the url is, which is broken |
| 08:43.36 | libv | but i had that before |
| 08:43.40 | mnemoc | they only need to detect the right .git |
| 08:44.13 | libv | hrm, maybe there is a way to be compatible |
| 08:44.21 | libv | simply by ignoring the url. |
| 08:44.25 | libv | in .gitmodules |
| 08:44.29 | mnemoc | :) |
| 08:44.31 | libv | and warning loudly |
| 08:44.45 | libv | anyway, back to sunxi-mali |
| 08:46.28 | libv | git diff | filterdiff :( |
| 08:48.04 | mnemoc | it's for a good cause :) |
| 08:48.58 | mnemoc | and the submodule won't be touched often |
| 08:49.01 | SPG | 03Luis 05master ff0a264 06rhombus 10allwinner_a10/orders/lscalder.html * 14http://git.hands.com/?p=rhombus.git;a=commitdiff;h=ff0a264 |
| 08:49.30 | libv | well, due to way it is built up, there are Makefiles headed for the submodule |
| 08:50.12 | libv | normally cross-compilation shouldn't change anything down there, but still, scary |
| 08:50.15 | ganbold | pcDuino 59$ |
| 08:50.33 | mnemoc | wasn't it going to be like $20? |
| 08:52.32 | libv | who is behind that, and is he working with us sunxi folk? |
| 08:52.33 | *** join/#arm-netbook rellla (~rellla@p5B0784AC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 08:53.07 | libv | or is this going to be yet another halfarsed fork with part of our trees and part of our wiki copied over? |
| 08:53.20 | libv | my word of the day :) |
| 08:54.54 | libv | http://www.pollin.de/shop/dt/MDkyODkyOTk-/Computer_und_Zubehoer/Hardware/Notebooks_Netbooks_Tablets/Android_4_0_TV_Box_HC860.html |
| 08:55.00 | libv | is that one known? |
| 08:55.08 | libv | if not, i might pick it up |
| 08:55.20 | aholler | I just browsed that this night too ;) |
| 08:55.37 | libv | 1GB and vga, and smaller than the mele |
| 08:55.46 | libv | which makes it a better machine for demoing |
| 08:55.49 | mnemoc | soc? |
| 08:55.53 | libv | a10 |
| 08:56.35 | mnemoc | nice |
| 08:56.44 | libv | mnemoc: so the first time you've seen this then |
| 08:56.50 | mnemoc | libv: yes |
| 08:57.01 | libv | why does hansg not use screen. |
| 08:57.11 | libv | because he has a large collection of devices |
| 08:57.24 | mnemoc | if you don't need sata it seems to be better deal than a mele a2000g... specially been already available in your country |
| 08:57.55 | mnemoc | hansg seems to be traveling |
| 08:58.32 | libv | yeah, not having to waste 3h getting it from the customs office is a plus |
| 08:59.26 | libv | which i might end up needing to do on tuesday, as my mali-400MP4 from the place with the expensive shipping and handling, the one that knows the pain of binary drivers, but was totally to sponsor lima a pair of devices, is on its way. |
| 08:59.38 | libv | +unwilling |
| 09:04.48 | *** join/#arm-netbook ssvb (~ssvb@212.16.98.80) |
| 09:05.23 | mnemoc | feels very lucky to have never needed to go to the customs office. everythign just arrives directly to my home. rarely with a to-pay invoice one pays directly to the postman |
| 09:06.12 | libv | wait and see how it works this time round |
| 09:06.23 | libv | i had to go over for my mele |
| 09:06.44 | libv | and 4y ago, i got a dvi submodule for a via board from norway. |
| 09:06.54 | libv | 3h gone for just a few eur in customs |
| 09:07.35 | mnemoc | :< |
| 09:07.40 | libv | mnemoc: maybe the customs people in portugal are not germans |
| 09:07.55 | mnemoc | libv: spain ;-) |
| 09:08.15 | libv | ah, i was convinced you were in portugal :) |
| 09:08.48 | mnemoc | near .pt, and having to hear a similar language, but still spain |
| 09:09.25 | libv | still, a pan-european customs bureaucrat exchange might be nice, for me :p |
| 09:10.14 | libv | apparently those paperpushers are still smarting from the shengen agreement, 20ys on |
| 09:10.42 | mnemoc | i would have expected a more efficient import taxing charging system in .de than "take this letter and go to that office and wait a bunch of hours only to pay a few euros" |
| 09:11.04 | mnemoc | that's more .it culture than .de culture |
| 09:11.16 | libv | i see that differently |
| 09:11.33 | libv | the germans are being overly proactive and overly correct |
| 09:11.54 | mnemoc | so they don't charge you until you show the invoice |
| 09:12.18 | libv | yeah, and therefor they steal 3h of your life |
| 09:12.25 | mnemoc | here, if they charge you, it's a totally arbitrary amount... without even opening your package |
| 09:12.39 | libv | which is quite criminal |
| 09:12.46 | libv | ah, different kind of criminality |
| 09:13.32 | mnemoc | in this case, your and their time costs more than the tax diff |
| 09:13.55 | libv | but it keeps us all busy and keeps these people employed! |
| 09:14.01 | mnemoc | *g* |
| 09:14.53 | mnemoc | maybe that would help the 6M unemployed people we have (out of a 45M population) |
| 09:14.59 | libv | definitely |
| 09:15.24 | libv | more checking and more paperwork leads to better piecharts to show the rating agencies and the eu :) |
| 09:15.39 | mnemoc | :) |
| 09:18.41 | libv | ah, git mv does not deal with submodules either. |
| 09:19.22 | libv | push submodule changes upstream, rm -Rf submodule, edit .gitmodules manually |
| 09:19.35 | libv | submodule update again. |
| 09:19.41 | libv | *sigh* |
| 09:21.17 | libv | and this process of course makes it impossible to keep stuff in your submodule locally, so you better be very very certain that your changes are good for public consumption |
| 09:22.25 | mnemoc | misses a mele-ish device but compatible with vesa mounting, to screw behind a display |
| 09:24.57 | SPG | 03Luis 05master 60f552f 06rhombus 10allwinner_a10/orders/lscalder.html * 14http://git.hands.com/?p=rhombus.git;a=commitdiff;h=60f552f |
| 09:25.44 | *** join/#arm-netbook Ershov (~Thunderbi@89.163.11.110) |
| 09:28.12 | libv | mnemoc: that indeed would make for a compelling product |
| 09:28.27 | libv | not sure whether there is a sizable market for it though, but it does make sense |
| 09:30.55 | mnemoc | the same device you are going to buy could have been made with the right dimensions and fit that market |
| 09:31.27 | libv | great, cherry-pick a commit which does not touch the submodule, and it complains as well |
| 09:31.39 | mnemoc | o_O |
| 09:31.59 | libv | yeah, full conflict. |
| 09:32.24 | mnemoc | what about git-format-patch+git-am instead of cherry-pick? |
| 09:32.51 | focus | installed ubuntu on to nexus 7 yesterday https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Nexus7/Installation |
| 09:32.53 | libv | ignore the conflict, and commit and all is well. |
| 09:33.22 | libv | focus: important, for me, question: what graphics driver is ubuntu using? |
| 09:33.26 | mnemoc | i received 4.2.2 on my nexus 7 yesterday... can't see the diff :| |
| 09:33.41 | mnemoc | android+ |
| 09:34.04 | focus | libv: how do I check - that thing is the beta - not the full tablet os they launched yesterday |
| 09:34.11 | RaYmAn | mnemoc: for one thing, they added secure adb |
| 09:34.25 | libv | focus: ldconfig -v | grep GLES |
| 09:34.47 | mnemoc | RaYmAn: meaning not-exploitable or ssl-ed? |
| 09:35.14 | libv | running es2_info or something should also tell you what renderer you are using |
| 09:35.38 | RaYmAn | mnemoc: meaning it requires that you need to authorize the computer on the device first |
| 09:35.49 | RaYmAn | mnemoc: which requires that you unlock the device |
| 09:35.52 | libv | es2_info is in mesa-utils-extra |
| 09:36.02 | mnemoc | RaYmAn: uhm |
| 09:36.19 | RaYmAn | I suspect it's ssl'ed as well, given it's some kind of public key auth type thing |
| 09:36.57 | RaYmAn | mnemoc: the big point here is that it you can't take someone elses locked device and adb to it |
| 09:37.03 | *** join/#arm-netbook mSquare (~selvan@27.34.241.70) |
| 09:37.06 | RaYmAn | without knowing the unlock code |
| 09:37.40 | mnemoc | ah, ok |
| 09:45.19 | *** join/#arm-netbook sx172 (~robot@173.168.4.7) |
| 09:46.44 | focus | libv: http://www.gplsquared.com/paste/ldconfig_nexus7.txt |
| 09:46.59 | sx172 | Is there a downloadable development environment or specific instructions for Debian and/or Ubuntu related distros? The provided BSP is erroring in many instances. |
| 09:47.58 | libv | oh, wow, looks like there are native tegra libs |
| 09:48.51 | focus | wonder how they got those :) |
| 09:49.42 | mnemoc | sx172: context please |
| 09:51.02 | sx172 | I try FirstStep page, and apt-get listed dependencies. Execute commands listed. Get Error 1 and or Error 2 depending on which command from the sunxi-bsp options {hwpack etc} |
| 09:51.05 | libv | focus: what is in the dynamic section of objdump -x /usr/lib/nvidia-tegra/libEGL.so.1 |
| 09:51.14 | libv | focus: is it referencing X stuff? |
| 09:51.30 | libv | like libX11.so |
| 09:53.33 | mnemoc | sx172: paste (on dpaste.com or similar) the whole error |
| 09:53.49 | sx172 | yes, one moment |
| 09:57.12 | sx172 | cp: cannot stat `build/sun4i_defconfig-linux/output/lib/modules': No such file or directory then mini-x-1gb_hwpack.tar.xz] Error 1 |
| 09:58.44 | mnemoc | the whole output, including what you typed |
| 09:58.55 | focus | libv: http://www.gplsquared.com/paste/objdump_nexus7_libegl.txt |
| 09:59.43 | libv | focus: what about libnvwsi.so |
| 10:00.13 | libv | looks mighty promising though |
| 10:00.42 | libv | i am telling kusma, the guy doing tegra-re this, nexus7 and ubuntu seems like a proper gnu-linux |
| 10:00.52 | sx172 | http://paste.pm/4mf |
| 10:03.48 | *** join/#arm-netbook nicksydney (~quassel@180.219.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au) |
| 10:03.55 | mnemoc | sx172: :( |
| 10:03.55 | nicksydney | hello all |
| 10:04.01 | sx172 | :( |
| 10:04.04 | nicksydney | has anybody seen this http://www.cnx-software.com/2013/02/20/59-pcduino-allwinner-a10-board-with-arduino-compatible-headers/ |
| 10:04.07 | mnemoc | sx172: I need to see the things BEFORE the error |
| 10:04.12 | nicksydney | based on AllWinner A10 |
| 10:04.23 | mnemoc | sx172: to try to find what went wrong |
| 10:05.22 | sx172 | From what i try to understand, it seem that the dirs are not made or used correct |
| 10:05.24 | libv | nicksydney: the question is, who is behind that, and is he working with linux-sunxi.org? (i think that the latter is a "no") |
| 10:05.27 | *** join/#arm-netbook popolon (~popolon@og-free.planet-service.fr) |
| 10:05.42 | sx172 | from u-boot things |
| 10:06.02 | mnemoc | sx172: that's a consequence, not a cause |
| 10:06.02 | nicksydney | libv: that is exactly i was thinking that's why i was thinking maybe someone here know about it |
| 10:06.04 | focus | libv: http://www.gplsquared.com/paste/objdump_libnvwsi.so.txt |
| 10:06.27 | libv | focus: bingo! |
| 10:06.29 | libv | libX11.so.6 |
| 10:06.29 | sx172 | These are last thing before error: INSTALL sound/soc/sun4i/spdif/sun4i_spdma.ko |
| 10:06.29 | sx172 | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:06.38 | nicksydney | libv: i checked the website there is only image file for Ubuntu and Android no source or link to source referred too |
| 10:07.08 | nicksydney | libv: but the schematics is posted in .pdf format on the website http://www.pcduino.com/?page_id=14 |
| 10:07.10 | mnemoc | sx172: please pass J=1 to your make call, and paste the WHOLE output |
| 10:07.14 | libv | focus: kusma is mighty interested now, and will get a nexus 7 soon :) |
| 10:07.22 | libv | focus: thanks a lot :) |
| 10:08.40 | RaYmAn | libv: fwiw, those drivers work on any tegra3 devices with a suitable kernel (this may be obvious, but it isn't always =P) |
| 10:09.06 | focus | libv: libX11.so.6 no such file - where be it? |
| 10:09.43 | libv | focus: in your system already |
| 10:10.03 | focus | libv: if need more, just create a script, with all the outputs dumped to text file |
| 10:10.04 | libv | focus: the goal of this excercise was to find whether the GL stack was proper linux or not |
| 10:10.35 | focus | libv: out of my depth at the moment but glad to help! |
| 10:10.42 | libv | focus: we found that libnvwsi is linking to libX11.so.6 |
| 10:10.57 | libv | libEGL depends on libnvwsi, which depends on libX11 |
| 10:11.11 | libv | so a proper X enabled GLES/EGL stack |
| 10:11.21 | libv | which is rather great news |
| 10:11.51 | libv | the nexus7, with ubuntu installed, is then a stellar tegra3 REing target |
| 10:12.16 | sx172 | My terminal not go high enough for total |
| 10:13.02 | sx172 | But, I see flaw, try to go to dir that does not exist |
| 10:13.15 | RaYmAn | libv: https://developer.nvidia.com/linux-tegra |
| 10:13.32 | mnemoc | sx172: the thing is to find what the dir isn't there |
| 10:13.35 | sx172 | "cd /build/sun4i_defconfig-linux" is not correct because dir does not exist |
| 10:13.39 | mnemoc | s/what/why/ |
| 10:13.39 | sx172 | that |
| 10:13.56 | sx172 | it not there obvious not made |
| 10:14.50 | mnemoc | make linux J=1 2>&1 | tee make_linux.txt |
| 10:14.52 | focus | libv: do you want ls -R / of all files in nexus7? |
| 10:15.24 | libv | RaYmAn: nice |
| 10:15.33 | libv | focus: now, all that is needed is now known |
| 10:16.08 | libv | s/now/no/ |
| 10:16.38 | focus | ok - glad to help :) |
| 10:17.07 | *** join/#arm-netbook fragmint (~fragmint@108-77-196-171.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net) |
| 10:17.32 | sx172 | mnemoc, it seem after config using def instead of custom ? |
| 10:18.02 | focus | libv: does it mean opengl might be working? |
| 10:18.08 | sx172 | variable inside not *_hwpack dir, but also defconfig dir which not made |
| 10:20.15 | focus | One thing I found between nexus 7 and pengpod that has me worked up is when loading firefox locally and with ssh -X. ssh -X is quicker with large files. The remote rendering is making a big difference - a lot quicker. |
| 10:20.16 | libv | focus: yup |
| 10:20.23 | libv | focus: get es2_gears |
| 10:20.56 | focus | libv: thanks - in that case i try to compile gambas3 for it :) |
| 10:23.11 | libv | wtf, nexus10 is 500+EUR |
| 10:23.17 | focus | may be future tablets have two CPUs - one for LCD and second for ssh -X to do rendering more quickly |
| 10:23.23 | libv | with the EUR above 1.30usd |
| 10:23.38 | libv | they do seem to be messing up the math there |
| 10:23.42 | focus | nexus 7 http://www.ebuyer.com - 200 UK pounds |
| 10:24.05 | mnemoc | sx172: http://paste.pm/4mh.c is the relevant part of the Makefile. something weird is happening on your system because your K_O_PATH doesn't include a reasonable $(PWD) |
| 10:24.15 | libv | focus: no, that is the nexus 7 |
| 10:24.27 | libv | the 10 has the exynos5 with the mali t604 |
| 10:24.44 | focus | hmmm |
| 10:24.51 | sx172 | What should $PWD be normal, i can do manually |
| 10:25.20 | libv | oh, 400EUR from the google play store. |
| 10:26.39 | libv | but 500+ from amazon.de, that does not make sense |
| 10:26.40 | *** join/#arm-netbook bsdfox_ (~Bob@unaffiliated/bsdfox) |
| 10:26.51 | mnemoc | sx172: $PWD is the dir where the makefile is standing. but again, it's a consequence of a bigger problem. not a cause |
| 10:28.40 | sx172 | $ $PWD |
| 10:28.40 | sx172 | bash: /home/test: Is a directory |
| 10:28.50 | sx172 | work fine |
| 10:31.18 | mnemoc | sx172: try changing the $(PWD) references in Makefile to $(shell pwd) |
| 10:33.45 | mnemoc | sx172: or better, $(CURDIR) |
| 10:34.37 | sx172 | interest, not sudo it output cp: cannot stat `build/boot.scr': No such file or directory |
| 10:34.37 | sx172 | Done |
| 10:35.09 | mnemoc | boot.scr is optional. that should be taken only as a warning |
| 10:36.26 | sx172 | How edit to include? |
| 10:36.39 | sx172 | Oh, nevermine, kernel opt |
| 10:38.01 | mnemoc | does $(CURDIR) work ok for you? |
| 10:38.21 | focus | libv: for reference sudo ls -R / of nexus7 http://www.gplsquared.com/paste/ls_nexus7.txt.tar.bz2 |
| 10:38.27 | sx172 | yes seems to be working that way |
| 10:38.51 | sx172 | you have to excuse, second language english and eight years age |
| 10:39.21 | mnemoc | eight years old? seriously? nice :) |
| 10:40.15 | sx172 | sorry first time try my fault sudo and wrong operating system i think |
| 10:41.10 | mnemoc | don't use `sudo` for this things. it's risky |
| 10:42.10 | sx172 | yes i see now, still sudo with git program thought? |
| 10:42.35 | mnemoc | don't sudo at all |
| 10:42.49 | mnemoc | it's only needed when actually making the card |
| 10:44.00 | *** join/#arm-netbook pcat (~cat@37-219-42-37.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi) |
| 10:44.54 | mnemoc | libv: btw, `git pull --rebase` understands submodules |
| 10:45.46 | mnemoc | libv: at least in 1.8.0.3 |
| 10:45.58 | mnemoc | wasn't expecting the recursion |
| 10:46.09 | libv | ah, 1.7.7 is where i am at |
| 10:49.08 | mnemoc | if ubuntu, sudo apt-add-repository ppa:git-core/ppa might be useful |
| 10:56.18 | *** join/#arm-netbook rz2k (~rz2k@95-25-199-38.broadband.corbina.ru) |
| 10:56.22 | *** join/#arm-netbook maethorechannen (~scot@80.229.12.97) |
| 11:00.48 | RaYmAn | libv: tbh, something like the ouya should be just as good a dev platform (though, I guess it's still not quite available for regular users?) |
| 11:01.16 | libv | RaYmAn: proper gnu/linux is the key |
| 11:01.25 | libv | it makes life _a_ _lot_ easier |
| 11:01.59 | RaYmAn | nexus7 used linux for tegra. |
| 11:02.07 | RaYmAn | it's in no way nexus7 specific |
| 11:02.28 | RaYmAn | proper gnu/linux can run just fine on my TF201 as well, or an Ouya |
| 11:02.41 | RaYmAn | porting it is trivial |
| 11:03.36 | libv | RaYmAn: proper gnu/linux, with working drivers to RE |
| 11:03.46 | libv | RaYmAn: this is unbelievably rare |
| 11:04.26 | RaYmAn | the drivers work on all tegra3 device. (ouya is tegra3) |
| 11:04.41 | libv | yes, this was news to me |
| 11:04.54 | libv | but i am not REing tegra, kusma is doing that |
| 11:05.04 | RaYmAn | the drivers canonical uses are just hte linux4tegra drivers downloadable from nvidia - they aren't specific to canonical or ubuntu or nexus7 :) |
| 11:05.07 | RaYmAn | fair enough |
| 11:05.09 | mnemoc | focus: hi, do you have your kicad files in a repo somewhere? or only downloadable .zip files? |
| 11:05.10 | libv | until very recently, sunxi was the only one with working binary drivers for mali |
| 11:05.34 | RaYmAn | nvidia has actually had working binary drivers for several years (tegra2 first) |
| 11:05.36 | libv | and until half a year or so, all i had was android |
| 11:05.51 | RaYmAn | (for gnu/linux) |
| 11:06.28 | focus | mnemoc: at the moment its all in single zip file, but I move it soon to github soon |
| 11:08.01 | mnemoc | focus: ok :) |
| 11:08.10 | focus | . |
| 11:10.40 | mnemoc | focus: any recommended resource for a not-EE (software ape like me) to learn to do a PCB for a carrier board like your? |
| 11:11.13 | mnemoc | any not-absuredly-overpriced but good book? |
| 11:16.54 | focus | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:16.57 | libv | so there were about 1300 cubieboards shipped already, and 100 still waiting? |
| 11:17.10 | libv | what was the original goal again, 500? |
| 11:18.42 | mnemoc | i think there are over 2k cubieboards out there already |
| 11:19.03 | mnemoc | but don't remember the exact numbers of each batch |
| 11:19.05 | libv | they are popping up on ebay.de now too |
| 11:19.22 | focus | mnemoc: links in here http://www.gplsquared.com/SoM2/SoM2.html - there is also some Gambas project manager software there that talks through the KiCAD and has links to the PDF files to learn as much as you want. |
| 11:19.47 | mnemoc | focus: so you don't recommend anything in dead-tree form? |
| 11:20.16 | focus | mnemoc: definitely not - the two videos and repeatedly following it x10 is how I did it |
| 11:20.32 | mnemoc | cool :) thanks! |
| 11:24.37 | focus | mnemoc: just saying - I used Firefox extension DownloadHelper with youtube - one click to save the youtube file to disk. No need to constantly download to replay it x10 :) |
| 11:24.44 | *** join/#arm-netbook abesis (~abesis@78.187.167.191) |
| 11:26.18 | mnemoc | focus: tubemate in my case. I don't like to waste computer display space with videos ;-) |
| 11:28.36 | focus | mnemoc: thanks - I can use that with my androids |
| 11:42.11 | mnemoc | focus: as it violates youtube's terms of service the app is an outcast, and the name abused by malwared variants. http://m.tubemate.net/ is the official site |
| 11:44.19 | *** join/#arm-netbook maethorechannen (~scot@80.229.12.97) |
| 11:45.04 | focus | mnemoc: thanks - good to know - I have throw out so many apps - either malware or resource hogger. |
| 12:09.06 | *** join/#arm-netbook cnxsoft (~cnxsoft@node-70p.pool-118-172.dynamic.totbb.net) |
| 12:11.50 | gzamboni | mnemoc i started with gEDA, but kiCAD is much better, im finishing my extension board for cubieboard using kicad, im very happy with it |
| 12:12.18 | gzamboni | i could say it has all the funciontalities needed |
| 12:12.36 | gzamboni | even for high frequency you can make the same distance when routing. |
| 12:13.32 | mnemoc | gzamboni: i trust kicad is fine. what I lack is knowledge :p |
| 12:13.34 | gzamboni | and yes i started with some learning tutos in youtube about one week or 2 ago |
| 12:14.33 | gzamboni | now im able already to make schematic components, footprints, autorouting and almost everything needed |
| 12:15.40 | mnemoc | so I was wondering about a book for hobbyist but teaching you in practice to design extension or carrier boards where theory and complexity is suposed to be low |
| 12:15.48 | mnemoc | nice |
| 12:16.04 | gzamboni | the use of same route lenghs in routing comunication of the arm with the sdram and/or eth phy are essential |
| 12:16.43 | gzamboni | well, i dont have this complication as i am doing a very simple extension board |
| 12:16.57 | mnemoc | that's fortunatelly the part you don't need to care when designing extension or carrier boards ;-) |
| 12:17.15 | gzamboni | but if i decide to do a "main board" its nice to know the functionality is there |
| 12:17.57 | mnemoc | does it deal with same route lengths and that stuff? |
| 12:18.23 | gzamboni | well after there are some electronique knologe to know that some routes cant be so close to others to avoid interferences |
| 12:18.38 | mnemoc | i heared someone ranting you can't even position components in the exact coordinates you want |
| 12:18.39 | gzamboni | Kicad yes |
| 12:19.13 | gzamboni | well, you have a grid in the background, you have to configure the "resolution" to be able to position exactly where you want |
| 12:19.25 | gzamboni | the default resolution is low |
| 12:20.13 | gzamboni | so what he said is not true |
| 12:20.32 | mnemoc | great to know :) |
| 12:21.07 | gzamboni | i just received 10 rgb matrix pannels, when i will finish my extension board i will start playing with it :P |
| 12:21.21 | mnemoc | it was a ranting of the sort "open source can't do what my beloved pirated app does" |
| 12:21.42 | gzamboni | you can even have a 3D preview in kiCAD |
| 12:21.55 | mnemoc | sexy |
| 12:22.01 | gzamboni | i thougth the same at the beggining, but know i see kiCad is a very good software |
| 12:22.36 | gzamboni | of course the library is not that big |
| 12:22.53 | gzamboni | i think in the paid softwres they have more components in their libraries |
| 12:23.04 | gzamboni | but its easy to create components and footprints |
| 12:23.35 | gzamboni | for instance: they dont have the 2x24 header |
| 12:23.45 | gzamboni | neither the 2mm 2X24 footprint |
| 12:23.58 | gzamboni | i had to create it to make the extension board for cubieboard |
| 12:24.11 | mnemoc | anything like openclipart for components and footprints? |
| 12:24.23 | *** join/#arm-netbook oliv3r (~oliver@7of9.schinagl.nl) |
| 12:24.58 | gzamboni | dont know really openclipart, but the apps are easy to use, and you can open a similar component and just change it and save as the one you want |
| 12:25.43 | gzamboni | of course, all the components and footprints you create if you dont associate a 3D model they wont appear in the 3D preview, it will appear only the solder parts in 2D at the board |
| 12:25.57 | mnemoc | ok |
| 12:28.49 | gzamboni | im filling my cart at farnell to know the encapsulations i will use to relate the components with its footprints to do the autorouting to send to the circuit board manufactor. |
| 12:29.11 | *** join/#arm-netbook popolon (~popolon@og-free.planet-service.fr) |
| 12:31.20 | gzamboni | i will make 10 units, in this extension board i will have a keypad, a FPC connector to a camera sensor, a header to a camera sensor also, an amplifier with speaker, an preamplifier with mic, 4 optocouplers with 4 relays, and headers for all gpios of cubieboard using 2.54mm |
| 12:33.12 | mnemoc | gzamboni: may I /q ? |
| 12:33.46 | gzamboni | what /q means ? |
| 12:34.09 | mnemoc | irc command for query, aka private message |
| 12:34.14 | gzamboni | sure |
| 12:34.18 | mnemoc | :) |
| 12:45.29 | *** join/#arm-netbook ganbold_ (~Ganbold@202.179.0.162) |
| 12:46.48 | *** join/#arm-netbook destinal (destinal@unaffiliated/destinal) |
| 12:47.47 | *** join/#arm-netbook dyoung (dyoung@nasadmin/dyoung) |
| 12:49.32 | *** join/#arm-netbook bfree (~niall@109.255.245.157) |
| 13:01.23 | *** join/#arm-netbook abesis (~abesis@78.187.167.191) |
| 13:04.11 | *** join/#arm-netbook tzafrir_laptop (~tzafrir@local.xorcom.com) |
| 13:09.06 | *** join/#arm-netbook merbanan (~benjamin@h217-27-188-82.cust.tyfon.se) |
| 13:15.54 | focus | gzamboni: equilength wires can be automagically made by twisting wires around each other. |
| 13:16.35 | focus | in PCB - each 180 degree twist costs 2 vias however |
| 13:19.04 | *** join/#arm-netbook popolon (~popolon@og-free.planet-service.fr) |
| 13:22.01 | *** join/#arm-netbook fragmint (~fragmint@108-77-196-171.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net) |
| 13:26.06 | focus | gzamboni: mnemoc: http://smisioto.no-ip.org/elettronica/kicad/kicad-en.htm - hundreds of kicad models, all of those files bundled into one ziped file http://www.gplsquared.com/SoM2/electronica_jan_2013.tar.bz2 |
| 13:32.02 | mnemoc | neat, thanks! |
| 13:32.52 | mnemoc | focus: naive question, when using a self power usb hub, does one need to do something special to feed the device port too? |
| 13:33.16 | mnemoc | pcb-design wise |
| 13:39.27 | gzamboni | i got some from here: http://www.reniemarquet.cjb.net/bibliotecas.html |
| 13:40.17 | mnemoc | kind of annoying there is no open central library |
| 13:40.54 | focus | mnemoc: nothing special as far as I know - a USB port can draw 500mA from bare +5V supply without having to talk with the controller and demand more power. |
| 13:41.16 | gzamboni | seems like your link is better, apperently he has all the 3D models also |
| 13:42.58 | focus | 3D models and the source files in .wrl format to edit it in wings3D (available in ubuntu). I normally never try to design 3D from scratch - e.g. a 24x2 I would start with 2x2 and then duplicate the existing pins until I get what I want - much easier unless you are expert in 3D design |
| 13:43.47 | gzamboni | woot, nice library he has the fpc 3d connector models |
| 13:49.23 | SPG | 03Arie 05master 7cc5d57 06rhombus 03allwinner_a10/orders/arievanwi.txt * 14http://git.hands.com/?p=rhombus.git;a=commitdiff;h=7cc5d57 |
| 13:56.22 | *** join/#arm-netbook zzshllehs (~none@178.46.79.86) |
| 14:00.44 | zzshllehs | can anyone advise a good netbook for gf (os: debian, purposes: web, films, texts etc..)? |
| 14:02.45 | focus | The Asus brands have been good to me. |
| 14:03.52 | focus | The original ones I bought had no os - now they are stuffed with windoze. Supposedly some have got their money back by returning windoze. |
| 14:04.10 | *** join/#arm-netbook Kraln (~kraln@69.169.90.240) |
| 14:04.27 | zzshllehs | I know |
| 14:04.32 | sx172 | I use, first laptop https://play.google.com/store/devices/details?id=chromebook_samsung_wifi |
| 14:05.01 | sx172 | father put ubuntu on great now had few options before |
| 14:05.38 | zzshllehs | I'm from Russia, unfortunately they are not available there |
| 14:06.52 | zzshllehs | I have an asus k53sv but here are a few disadvantages: its weight is about 3 kg and here's a Nvidia Optimus which is too bad with Linux |
| 14:06.53 | sx172 | без году неделя :) |
| 14:08.23 | zzshllehs | нужен нетбук с маленьким весом и максимально большим экраном (для нетбука), цена ориентировочно 17K |
| 14:09.58 | zzshllehs | шиндовс можно законно вернуть, это не проблема |
| 14:16.30 | sx172 | Простите, cколько стоит?, MSI X-slim xорошо ? |
| 14:16.34 | *** join/#arm-netbook rellla (~rellla@p5B078070.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:33.04 | zzshllehs | что насчет хромбука? |
| 14:33.36 | mnemoc | english please |
| 14:34.27 | sx172 | I do not have answer zz |
| 14:34.53 | sx172 | I see good result battery and video |
| 14:35.25 | mnemoc | <spam>http://armdevices.net/2013/02/20/google-project-glass-is-seeking-glass-explorers/</spam> |
| 14:35.31 | sx172 | linux page relating, but english only |
| 14:36.49 | mnemoc | your english is good enough to stick with it and don't exclude all non-russians from the conversation ;-) |
| 14:39.26 | sx172 | i thank you, some wordds i have to google change, i think works well |
| 14:43.48 | sx172 | mnemoc i mail father he say i did wrong linux version, 3.8 out i did 3.0 |
| 14:44.37 | zzshllehs | you're talking about samsung chromebook? |
| 14:45.31 | mnemoc | sx172: 3.8 is out, and has core sunxi support, but it can't be used to run a full system yet. only 3.0 and 3.4 for now. |
| 14:45.37 | sx172 | no i make, how you say in english |
| 14:46.27 | *** join/#arm-netbook wingrime (~wingrime@78.109.115.103) |
| 14:46.40 | sx172 | zz, "модель" mini-x-1gb |
| 14:48.20 | *** join/#arm-netbook hg_5 (~chatzilla@unaffiliated/hg-5/x-8664886) |
| 14:49.08 | sx172 | 3.4 is new version for mini-x-1gb ok i see. i think i see in git i can change checkout |
| 14:50.15 | mnemoc | git co -b sunxi-3.4 origin/sunxi-3.4 |
| 14:50.21 | mnemoc | s/co/checkout/ |
| 14:50.23 | *** join/#arm-netbook lemonade` (~lemonade`@pool-71-178-51-174.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
| 14:50.51 | mnemoc | .oO(mental note, not everyone uses the same git aliases)o |
| 14:53.20 | sx172 | ok yes i see download-ing only new parts this is nice |
| 14:54.23 | *** join/#arm-netbook cnxsoft (~cnxsoft@node-70p.pool-118-172.dynamic.totbb.net) |
| 14:55.04 | sx172 | i see stage/ and origin/, what is not the same |
| 14:55.13 | *** join/#arm-netbook Brandon15811 (~Brandon15@ec2linux.exaktop.tk) |
| 14:56.01 | mnemoc | origin is a remote, sunxi-3.[04] and stage/sunxi-3.[04] are branches |
| 14:56.35 | mnemoc | branches starting with a remote name are remote branches, others are local branches |
| 14:56.50 | mnemoc | sx172: http://git-scm.com/book |
| 14:59.46 | sx172 | ok i see i put on google change Thank you very much. |
| 15:02.30 | *** join/#arm-netbook Gumboot (~sh1@rev.bovine.muck.net.nz) |
| 15:27.52 | Turl | mnemoc: https://plus.google.com/102255887343137829901/posts/7zbpstjuZbX |
| 15:28.01 | Turl | sounds like we got a regression :/ |
| 15:29.39 | mnemoc | uhm |
| 15:31.03 | mnemoc | why the f* olimex and miniand never reports anything, just rant around |
| 15:35.01 | mnemoc | Turl: do you know if the slugishness happens happens in 3.4 or also in 3.0? |
| 15:36.05 | Turl | no idea really, I just saw that G+ post |
| 15:36.29 | Turl | I haven't used GPIOs other than to turn the cb's green led |
| 15:39.15 | *** part/#arm-netbook cnxsoft (~cnxsoft@node-70p.pool-118-172.dynamic.totbb.net) |
| 15:39.51 | mnemoc | 3.4 has some pio handling changes, also available in stage/sunxi-3.0. but not (yet) in sunxi-3.0 |
| 15:54.11 | *** join/#arm-netbook rsalveti (~rsalveti@unaffiliated/rsalveti) |
| 16:02.28 | *** part/#arm-netbook sx172 (~robot@173.168.4.7) |
| 16:18.33 | *** join/#arm-netbook ZaEarl_ (~malmrose@c-67-166-109-0.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 16:25.56 | *** join/#arm-netbook Kraln (~kraln@69.169.90.240) |
| 16:29.27 | *** join/#arm-netbook Kraln (~kraln@69.169.90.240) |
| 16:34.43 | *** join/#arm-netbook rsalveti (~rsalveti@unaffiliated/rsalveti) |
| 16:36.02 | *** join/#arm-netbook drachensun (~drachensu@142.196.83.182) |
| 16:51.19 | *** join/#arm-netbook pcat (~cat@gprs-internet-bcee1b-232.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 17:08.11 | *** join/#arm-netbook Kraln- (~kraln@69.169.90.240) |
| 17:10.07 | *** join/#arm-netbook niftylettuce (uid2733@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fmtqvgxrbzfumcgc) |
| 17:17.44 | *** part/#arm-netbook FergusL (~PetitLol@2a01:e0b:1000:33:5054:ff:fe00:1d0) |
| 17:51.05 | *** join/#arm-netbook Yaku (~Yaku@ip-2-206-158-233.web.vodafone.de) |
| 18:05.23 | *** join/#arm-netbook eebrah (~chatzilla@212.49.88.104) |
| 18:11.48 | *** join/#arm-netbook Gumboot (~sh1@rev.bovine.muck.net.nz) |
| 18:19.52 | ZaEarl | I have confirmation that Ubuntu Tablet is running on a Jelly Bean kernel. The source will be available with the dev builds tomorrow. |
| 18:20.53 | mnemoc | what is "a Jelly Bean kernel"? 3.0? |
| 18:21.10 | ZaEarl | Android 4.2.1 |
| 18:21.33 | ZaEarl | oh, the kernel version |
| 18:21.50 | ZaEarl | yeah, 3.0.x |
| 18:22.29 | mnemoc | android 4.0 runs the very same kernel :p |
| 18:42.27 | Turl | the kernel version is mostly irrelevant irrelevant |
| 18:44.26 | *** join/#arm-netbook eFfeM (~frans@c73189.upc-c.chello.nl) |
| 18:49.00 | *** part/#arm-netbook eFfeM (~frans@c73189.upc-c.chello.nl) |
| 18:49.33 | *** join/#arm-netbook focus_it (~focus_it@cpc7-dals17-2-0-cust182.hari.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 19:09.14 | *** join/#arm-netbook Kraln (~kraln@69.169.90.240) |
| 19:09.59 | *** join/#arm-netbook anunnaki (~anunnaki@c-174-54-115-236.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 19:35.45 | *** join/#arm-netbook sky770 (~sky770@122.177.182.97) |
| 19:36.21 | *** join/#arm-netbook sky770 (~sky770@122.177.182.97) |
| 19:39.44 | *** join/#arm-netbook aesok (~aesok@93-80-57-163.broadband.corbina.ru) |
| 20:11.13 | *** join/#arm-netbook eebrah (~chatzilla@212.49.88.106) |
| 20:23.17 | *** join/#arm-netbook user (~user357@host31-51-206-88.range31-51.btcentralplus.com) |
| 20:24.55 | user | Hi, I'm trying to port replicant to the All Winner A13B, and I was wondering whether this kernel might work: https://github.com/linux-sunxi/linux-sunxi ? |
| 20:25.38 | user | Otherwise, does anyone know where I can find the device specific kernel? |
| 20:30.17 | Turl | user: A13B? first time I hear of it |
| 20:30.47 | user | https://github.com/linux-sunxi/linux-sunxi |
| 20:30.52 | user | whoops, wrong link |
| 20:30.58 | user | http://linux-sunxi.org/A13B |
| 20:31.27 | user | sun5i |
| 20:31.55 | Turl | ah, so it's an A13-powered tablet |
| 20:32.15 | Turl | chinese are worse than samsung when naming products >.< |
| 20:32.29 | user | lol |
| 20:32.35 | Turl | user: yes, A13 should work, it's sun5i mach |
| 20:32.43 | user | good stuff. |
| 20:34.14 | Turl | what version of android is replicant working on these days? |
| 20:34.59 | user | I'll ask ... |
| 20:35.26 | user | I don't know myself. |
| 20:35.45 | Gumboot | Speaking of bad naming; I was looking at those Ainol tablets a while back trying to figure out what the hell "manycore" meant. I ended up asking our FAEs at Allwinner. |
| 20:36.16 | Gumboot | ("our" being my ex "our", not current "our") |
| 20:36.20 | Turl | all the things are 'manycore' these days |
| 20:36.40 | Turl | as long as it has a DSP or BP or GPU it qualifies as manycore :p |
| 20:36.46 | Gumboot | Well, this was A10. Cortex-A8. I asked around the office and they said that was, by any practical definition, impossible. |
| 20:36.57 | Gumboot | But yes, it turned out to be that. |
| 20:37.10 | Gumboot | What's a "BP"? |
| 20:37.15 | Turl | marketing speech at its finest |
| 20:37.19 | Turl | Baseband Processor |
| 20:37.30 | Gumboot | Oh yes. I'd stopped hearing about those. |
| 20:37.51 | Gumboot | I got kind of fuzzy about where the boundary was. |
| 20:37.52 | user | Replicant is apparently a fork of CM 9, so ICS. |
| 20:38.34 | Turl | user: might come in handy for you then, https://github.com/allwinner-dev-team/android_device_allwinner_common |
| 20:38.44 | user | ok, thanks :) |
| 20:39.01 | Turl | master branch is ics iirc |
| 20:40.05 | Gumboot | Is there any Android-derivative which sandboxes apps more thoroughly and runs inside of Linux alongside proper Linux apps? |
| 20:40.53 | Turl | Gumboot: what do you mean with 'more thoroughly'? |
| 20:40.57 | jinzo | You're stretching it a bit :D There are Dalvik "players" for Linux/Windows |
| 20:41.01 | Turl | Gumboot: android apps are already heavily sandboxed |
| 20:41.11 | jinzo | but security vise, I don't think anyone adds anything special |
| 20:41.41 | jinzo | then, on this end of the stick you have some interesting patchsets/programs for more in-depth control of permission (OpenPDroid) |
| 20:42.05 | Gumboot | At installation Android says that apps need all sorts of things I don't want them to have. My only option is to not install them at all. So I was wondering if maybe there was something which would run them but deny them that access. |
| 20:42.21 | Turl | pdroid is that iirc |
| 20:42.41 | Turl | CM7 can deny permissions too, but apps don't like to hit hard walls |
| 20:43.24 | Gumboot | And the other thing is, I'd much rather run Linux (proper), but I need access to some Android apps, and I don't want them having rights to make a mess. |
| 20:44.00 | Turl | if an app requests unreasonable permissions, it's usually sign of trouble though |
| 20:44.13 | Gumboot | I don't think the walls need to be hard. They can be elastic. |
| 20:44.21 | Turl | Gumboot: you can run proper linux in a chroot |
| 20:44.33 | Gumboot | No, i don't trust Android as the host. |
| 20:44.41 | Turl | Gumboot: the host is the linux kernel |
| 20:44.53 | Gumboot | I don't trust the Android userland as the host. |
| 20:45.00 | Turl | "ubuntu for android" aims at that |
| 20:45.10 | Turl | Gumboot: no userland is host of anything |
| 20:45.22 | Gumboot | Who decides what goes on the display? |
| 20:45.33 | Turl | whoever writes on the framebuffer device |
| 20:45.46 | Gumboot | Who decides who's allowed to write on the framebuffer device? |
| 20:45.50 | Turl | the kernel |
| 20:46.04 | Gumboot | Who configures the kernel to make these allowances? |
| 20:46.08 | Turl | you |
| 20:46.16 | Gumboot | That's not been my experience with Andriod. |
| 20:47.06 | Turl | http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/android |
| 20:47.10 | Gumboot | I used to run Android with this "I don't want anything which makes stupid demands for privileges" attitude, until I realised I wasn't installing _anything_ and that Android was useless to me. |
| 20:48.23 | Turl | there's two additions to that attitude you need to do |
| 20:48.34 | Gumboot | What it boils down to is that I think the whole Android security model is utterly stupid. If Android is the host of my Linux environment then I'm still giving a stupid system top-level rights to make stupid decisions. |
| 20:48.46 | Turl | if it doesn't request internet permission, the rest don't matter much |
| 20:48.53 | Turl | and if it requires root, permissions are irrelevant |
| 20:49.04 | Gumboot | I didn't even bother rooting for months. |
| 20:49.33 | Turl | so you trusted the phone manufacturer |
| 20:49.45 | Gumboot | Then I made a last-ditch effort at turning my device into something useful. |
| 20:49.46 | Gumboot | tablet. |
| 20:50.26 | Gumboot | I don't think I've seen an app that didn't want internet permission. |
| 20:50.56 | Gumboot | And I didn't have an awful lot of faith in the original firmware, either. |
| 20:54.40 | Gumboot | pdroid sounds like half of what I want. |
| 20:59.26 | jinzo | Gumboot, there's also some apps on the android play store (one chinese one is famous, but can't remember the name) that do the same as OpenPDroid |
| 20:59.39 | jinzo | also the MIUI rom has it baked in (the previously mentioned app) |
| 21:00.17 | jinzo | and the stuff at least looks great (dunno how it works) |
| 21:00.23 | jinzo | but no sources afaik. |
| 21:00.33 | Turl | MIUI :/ |
| 21:01.32 | Turl | no source of it at all |
| 21:01.46 | Turl | they don't even comply with GPL |
| 21:01.48 | jinzo | MIUI from the "naive" user perspective is great. Polished, good set of apps, themes, quite big community |
| 21:02.15 | Turl | and it's made in china, I don't personally trust closed chinese software |
| 21:02.52 | jinzo | yeah I know, but I don't trust the closed american software either |
| 21:03.00 | jinzo | probably even more than the chinese. |
| 21:03.33 | Gumboot | Oh, and I'd also like to reduce Android apps to being just a window. |
| 21:03.42 | Gumboot | So I can run a proper window manager. |
| 21:03.58 | jinzo | there's some samsung stuff with that, also some open afaik. Nothing major tho. |
| 21:04.08 | jinzo | or at least that I would know |
| 21:04.23 | Turl | jinzo: the thing is, when an american company does bad things and it gets discovered, there's big trouble |
| 21:04.27 | Turl | not so much when it's chinese |
| 21:04.44 | jinzo | WAT? |
| 21:04.52 | Turl | remember Carrier IQ? |
| 21:05.05 | jinzo | you do know the USA is intercepting ALL of the internet traffic that goes thorought it? |
| 21:05.09 | jinzo | even if it's mine for example? |
| 21:05.29 | Turl | we were talking about software companies, what does the USA have to do? :P |
| 21:05.33 | Gumboot | "intercepting"? |
| 21:05.33 | jinzo | USA is only a bit on it's toes when it goes for internal stuff regarding americans |
| 21:05.51 | jinzo | they're quite content with spying on foreigners |
| 21:06.36 | jinzo | Gumboot, yes, they claim that everything that goes thorough their internets is theirs to inspect, EU is disagreeing but nothing major will come |
| 21:06.59 | Gumboot | What if smoeone has citizenship but might still be a terrorist? Surely you have to spy on _everyone_ to be sure. |
| 21:07.05 | jinzo | there are also no laws that would forbid the CIA for example to intercept souch traffic. |
| 21:07.24 | jinzo | Gumboot, yes, but it's a lot easier if you spy on your own people under the umbrella of spying for foreigners |
| 21:07.26 | Gumboot | IP traffic is open for inspection. What of it? |
| 21:07.31 | jinzo | at least, that's what I would doo. |
| 21:07.40 | Gumboot | Once it's out on the internet you have to assume it's being looked at. |
| 21:07.59 | jinzo | should not be legal. You can assume many things |
| 21:08.12 | user | indeed, and we'll never know whos spying on us if things remain closed sourced |
| 21:08.13 | jinzo | but I don't think it should be legal for CIA for example, to look at my data |
| 21:08.15 | jinzo | even if it's cats. |
| 21:08.25 | Gumboot | This is going to descend into a gun control debate. I'm out. |
| 21:08.37 | Gumboot | "if you outlaw IP packet inspection, only outlaws ... " |
| 21:08.42 | Gumboot | etc. |
| 21:08.50 | jinzo | gun control? we don't have souch problems in developed countrys :D |
| 21:09.59 | Gumboot | I'm from New Zealand. In the charts I see it has about the third-highest gun ownership rate in the countries people bother to survey. |
| 21:10.20 | Gumboot | Only, in NZ they have this thing where people JUST DON'T SHOOT EACH OTHER. |
| 21:10.32 | jinzo | not only in NZ |
| 21:10.40 | jinzo | quite some other countries too :D |
| 21:10.46 | jinzo | and ofcourse that's good |
| 21:10.47 | Gumboot | I think in Switzerland they mostly shoot themselves. |
| 21:11.03 | jinzo | but on the other hand, you're next on the list of being the terrorists because of Kim :P |
| 21:12.14 | user | anyways, thanks for the help, I'm off. |
| 21:12.26 | Gumboot | dotcom or jung un |
| 21:12.31 | Gumboot | jong un? |
| 21:13.15 | Turl | dotcom I'm betting |
| 21:14.40 | Gumboot | Two different axes of evil, I guess. Does evil have multiple axes? I bet it does. |
| 21:22.36 | *** join/#arm-netbook bfree_ (~niall@109.255.245.157) |
| 21:30.36 | *** join/#arm-netbook tinti (~tinti@pdpc/supporter/student/tinti) |
| 21:54.40 | *** join/#arm-netbook anunnaki (~anunnaki@c-174-54-115-236.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 22:36.22 | *** join/#arm-netbook pwhalen (~paul@CPE001310360dac-CM78cd8ec9e405.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 22:57.32 | *** join/#arm-netbook FergusL (~PetitLol@2a01:e0b:1000:33:5054:ff:fe00:1d0) |
| 23:15.53 | *** join/#arm-netbook tzafrir_laptop (~tzafrir@212.179.75.202) |
| 23:25.28 | *** join/#arm-netbook lejonet (~lejonet@194.14.0.123) |
| 23:25.28 | *** join/#arm-netbook lejonet (~lejonet@gentoo/developer/lejonet) |
| 23:31.17 | *** join/#arm-netbook eebrah (~chatzilla@212.49.88.106) |
| 23:53.47 | *** join/#arm-netbook theRat__ (~theRat@172.126.96.58.static.exetel.com.au) |