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| 15:26.20 | leifmadsen | russellb: what are your thoughts on 15609 being a blocker going forward? I'm seeing this on another server as well from 1.6.1.2 and beyond. Looks like it may have been around for a bit now. |
| 15:26.20 | leifmadsen | M15609 |
| 15:26.20 | MuffinMan | [ready for testing] [Asterisk] Core/Channels 0015609: [patch] WARNING[23025]: channel.c:952 __ast_queue_frame: Exceptionally long voice queue length queuing to Local reported by aragon (Karma: +4.25) https://issues.asterisk.org/view.php?id=15609 |
| 15:35.16 | russellb | the specific bug report is a big mess, there are so many different problems on there right now |
| 15:35.33 | russellb | I don't want to make it a blocker for the current releases, but we can mark it as a blocker for the next round |
| 15:35.38 | russellb | I'd like to get releases out this week |
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| 15:46.54 | davidbrillert | hi aragon here |
| 15:47.47 | davidbrillert | is there anyone who would like access to my lab to help with 15609 ? |
| 15:49.45 | davidbrillert | there are 3 issues in 15609 issue1=reported issue, issue2=memory leak (captured in valgrind) |
| 15:50.31 | davidbrillert | my problem is debugging the original issue when I cannot get asterisk to run for more than 24 hours without a crash :P |
| 15:51.29 | davidbrillert | sorry i meant 2 issues ;) |
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| 16:13.59 | davidbrillert | anyway my 2 cents= this should be a block since 15109 was blocking 1.4.26 and that issue still does not appear to be fixed. Atis also reported a crash with filestream_frisolate-1.4.diff2.txt patch and uploaded his backtrace to 15609. Fixing the filestream bug would at least allow us to focus on the reported issue which is the WARNINGS/deadlocks. And to be honest the WARNINGS/locks are far more service affecting than the cra |
| 16:22.31 | leifmadsen | davidbrillert: I'm starting to think that since 15609 is getting to be a mess, we should really break out all the issues that have been reported in it to separate, specific issues |
| 16:22.50 | davidbrillert | pretty much |
| 16:23.24 | davidbrillert | can anyone comment on the latest valgrind dump? |
| 16:26.01 | davidbrillert | leif: as far as breaking out the issues I can only say this. There is nothing else I can do; I have uploaded all the logs I can. I can give root access to a willing developer but I am stuck and until I get clear direction from a developer or marshall or another patch to test then there is nothing else I can do |
| 16:26.33 | leifmadsen | davidbrillert: I meant file two separate issues describing what they are instead of handling 2 issues in the same bug number |
| 16:28.27 | davidbrillert | i understand that and I would have done so earlier except that marshall's made the relationship of 15609 to 15109, 15817, 15845, 15616 |
| 16:29.23 | davidbrillert | the ticket was opened not as a different issue... |
| 16:29.35 | davidbrillert | typo |
| 16:29.43 | davidbrillert | the ticket was opened as a different issue |
| 16:30.27 | davidbrillert | anyway... I just want to focus on the actual problem and not debate how to work on the ticket |
| 16:30.45 | davidbrillert | root access is available to diagnose root cause |
| 16:32.21 | davidbrillert | I'd be happy to remove the relationships to the other tickets where the issue is the crash. And focus on the warnings/locks so when that issue is fixed 15609 can be closed out |
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| 16:44.43 | leifmadsen | The_Boy_Wonder: ping |
| 16:44.48 | leifmadsen | M15665 |
| 16:44.50 | MuffinMan | [acknowledged] [Asterisk] Channels/chan_sip/General 0015665: Asterisk eats up all the processor and prints the same message in the screen reported by falves11 (Karma: -1.5) https://issues.asterisk.org/view.php?id=15665 |
| 16:44.53 | leifmadsen | if he can't reproduce, should I close that issue? |
| 16:45.16 | The_Boy_Wonder | let me look again real quick |
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| 16:45.56 | Micc | I got this message over and over in my logs but i don't know what it means. |
| 16:46.20 | Micc | its about an exception but no handler. I'll get the message hold on. |
| 16:46.41 | Micc | it filled my logs with over a gig of these |
| 16:46.45 | The_Boy_Wonder | Micc, are you referring to 0015665? |
| 16:48.48 | Micc | I don't think so |
| 16:49.21 | Micc | WARNING[10591] channel.c: Exception flag set on 'SIP/homehealth1-b6eed0a0', but no exception handler |
| 16:49.31 | Micc | I wasn't watching it when it happened. |
| 16:49.40 | Micc | so I don't know if it was using all the cpu or not. |
| 16:49.50 | Micc | but asterisk didn't restart. |
| 16:49.57 | Micc | it resolved itself. |
| 16:50.05 | The_Boy_Wonder | leifmadsen, go ahead and close it. the gdb is gibberish and if he's not going to help nothing further can be done |
| 16:50.15 | leifmadsen | The_Boy_Wonder: that was my thinking as well |
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| 18:20.08 | ebroad | i have several issues filed which are 'ready for review', should i post them to the review board? |
| 18:20.19 | leifmadsen | ebroad: ummm... good question... |
| 18:20.28 | leifmadsen | I'd say anything that is potentially invasive, or large, could be posted |
| 18:20.38 | leifmadsen | if they are like 5 lines or something, there isn't much to be done there I don't think |
| 18:20.55 | leifmadsen | that's my opinion anyways |
| 18:21.12 | ebroad | hmm, the only one that i would say is invasive is 'confirmed' |
| 18:21.21 | ebroad | the others are no more than 10 lines max |
| 18:21.42 | ebroad | M15880 |
| 18:21.44 | MuffinMan | [confirmed] [Asterisk] Channels/chan_sip/TCP-TLS 0015880: [patch] Contact header port ignores transport when using externip reported by ebroad (Karma: +2.00) https://issues.asterisk.org/view.php?id=15880 |
| 18:21.55 | ebroad | adds 2 additional options to sip.conf |
| 18:22.22 | ebroad | among some other things |
| 18:23.05 | ebroad | leifmadsen, makes sense, otherwise the review board would start looking like the issue tracker |
| 18:23.10 | leifmadsen | M13828 |
| 18:23.12 | MuffinMan | [ready for testing] [Asterisk] Channels/chan_dahdi/NewFeature 0013828: [patch] !! Unknown IE 50 (cs5, Unknown Information Element) & RTCP SR transmission error, rtcp halted reported by fdecher (Karma: neutral) https://issues.asterisk.org/view.php?id=13828 |
| 18:23.41 | leifmadsen | ebroad: exactly -- the 'Ready for Review' doesn't necessarily mean it has to go to reviewboard, but is rather a marker to say, "Hey, I think this is ready to be merged, but someone has to double check it and merge it" |
| 18:24.20 | leifmadsen | ebroad: feel free to put that 15880 to reviewboard -- it doesn't have to be at Ready for Review to be on reviewboard -- in fact it makes more sense to do it at Confirmed |
| 18:24.39 | leifmadsen | ebroad: thanks for all the patches lately btw, we always love and appreciate help from the community |
| 18:24.44 | ebroad | leifmadsen, thanks i will post it up shortly |
| 18:24.51 | leifmadsen | awesome, let me know if there is anything else I can do |
| 18:25.22 | ebroad | leifmadsen, no problem, i am by far no expert at c though i seem to be able to spot the occasional bug by just looking at the code |
| 18:25.31 | ebroad | mostly trivial ones though |
| 18:25.51 | leifmadsen | hey, a bug is a bug, and sometimes the trivial ones are the harder ones to get fixed |
| 18:26.01 | ebroad | true that |
| 18:26.34 | leifmadsen | man, this coffee is getting cold, but I keep drinking it |
| 18:26.40 | ebroad | um, don't we all do that |
| 18:26.47 | leifmadsen | ebroad: suppose you're not going to be at astricon? |
| 18:26.56 | leifmadsen | always enjoy meeting new people who get active in asterisk :) |
| 18:27.06 | ebroad | leifmadsen, i wish, too much going on in my personal life and at work |
| 18:27.12 | leifmadsen | ya, I hear that |
| 18:27.25 | ebroad | leifmadsen, if you ever do anything in the nyc area i will definitely be there |
| 18:27.39 | leifmadsen | sweet deals :) we're not too far away then. I'm in Toronto |
| 18:28.15 | ebroad | hehe, just north of the border |
| 18:28.37 | leifmadsen | well, probably more west than north :) |
| 18:28.52 | ebroad | ontario/bc area? |
| 18:29.01 | ebroad | oh wait |
| 18:29.07 | ebroad | u said toronto |
| 18:29.33 | ebroad | somewhat west, as the crow flies |
| 18:29.52 | ebroad | i went to hs in rochester so i know the area somewhat |
| 18:30.05 | leifmadsen | heh, not Ontario, California :) |
| 18:30.16 | leifmadsen | I guess north west of you if you're NYC. More west of Buffalo |
| 18:30.43 | ebroad | yup, slight left at the niagra crossing, if i remember correctly |
| 18:31.08 | leifmadsen | ya, then curls around to the right |
| 18:32.07 | ebroad | you might want to consider company driven user groups |
| 18:32.15 | leifmadsen | eh? |
| 18:32.17 | ebroad | much like sourcefire does with snort |
| 18:32.29 | leifmadsen | not familiar with that approach |
| 18:33.05 | ebroad | basically sourcefire has a couple of people responsible for community *outreach* |
| 18:33.15 | leifmadsen | ah gotcha, like jtodd |
| 18:33.21 | leifmadsen | he is the community relations manager |
| 18:33.24 | ebroad | excatly |
| 18:34.11 | ebroad | sourcefire takes it one step further by hosting the community mailing lists, organizing community events etc |
| 18:34.14 | ebroad | see http://www.snort.org/community/user-groups/ |
| 18:35.28 | ebroad | though the organizers do quite a bit themselves |
| 18:35.36 | ebroad | its kind of a hybrid approach |
| 18:36.54 | ebroad | leifmadsen, in review board, base diff path = svn path? |
| 18:42.27 | leifmadsen | ummm, honestly not too sure |
| 18:42.34 | leifmadsen | I have only used it like... once :) |
| 18:42.39 | leifmadsen | there is a tool to post it though |
| 18:42.43 | leifmadsen | in repotools |
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| 19:02.31 | ebroad | leifmadsen, done, r392, thanks for the help, much appreciated! if you are ever in nyc, a beer or two (three?) would be in order |
| 19:06.18 | leifmadsen | I'm more of the three or more persuasion :) |
| 19:06.26 | leifmadsen | and if you're in toronto, beers on me! |
| 19:06.29 | ebroad | i figured as much |
| 19:06.37 | ebroad | absolutely |
| 19:06.38 | leifmadsen | what is that supposed to mean?! :) |
| 19:07.22 | ebroad | i figured 3+, but im a cautious man so i started with 1 :) |
| 19:08.12 | ebroad | out of curiousity is it possible to add a review board link field to mantis? |
| 19:08.26 | Corydon76-lap | It means Leif passes out before beer makes Leif bi. |
| 19:08.26 | leifmadsen | hmmmm,. that may be possible yes |
| 19:09.05 | leifmadsen | well, I'm Canadian, so what can I say :) |
| 19:09.31 | Corydon76-lap | leifmadsen: "Yes" |
| 19:10.15 | leifmadsen | unlikely :) |
| 19:10.15 | ebroad | Corydon76-dig, depends on the beer, no? |
| 19:11.26 | Corydon76-lap | ebroad: at this point, I'm pretty sure that no beer will aid in my cause |
| 19:12.08 | leifmadsen | ebroad: field added |
| 19:12.12 | leifmadsen | 'Reviewboard Link' |
| 19:12.22 | leifmadsen | just add the link string under Update Issue |
| 19:12.26 | ebroad | leifmadsen, cool, that was fast |
| 19:12.42 | leifmadsen | ebroad: yep, wasn't hard to add |
| 19:12.46 | ebroad | Corydon76-dig, alcohol can do anything |
| 19:12.58 | ebroad | Corydon76-dig, you should know that by now |
| 19:12.59 | Corydon76-lap | leifmadsen: can you make it so that if you just put in the RB number, it will auto-format the link? |
| 19:13.17 | leifmadsen | Corydon76-lap: possibly with some sort of regex.... |
| 19:13.27 | leifmadsen | but I suck at regex's |
| 19:13.37 | leifmadsen | I guess it just need to be a s/ |
| 19:13.40 | leifmadsen | lets see! |
| 19:14.18 | ebroad | whats the max size of the reviewboard id |
| 19:14.35 | leifmadsen | I think it is 6 digits? |
| 19:14.54 | Corydon76-lap | 5 digits would work for the foreseeable future |
| 19:15.30 | Corydon76-lap | We aren't even up to 99,000 issues yet |
| 19:27.48 | ebroad | s/\(\d*\)/https:\/\/reviewboard.asterisk.org\/r\//1 |
| 19:29.35 | leifmadsen | lets try! |
| 19:29.43 | ebroad | \d* globs though |
| 19:29.50 | ebroad | i need to limit it |
| 19:30.03 | leifmadsen | hmmmm, doesn't add the number to the end |
| 19:30.18 | leifmadsen | I think you're missing one value before the //1 |
| 19:31.34 | ebroad | what happens if you run echo -n '12345' | sed 's/\(\d*\)/https:\/\/reviewboard.asterisk.org\/r\//1' |
| 19:31.47 | leifmadsen | I don't have bash on mantis :) |
| 19:31.53 | leifmadsen | has to be pure regex |
| 19:32.11 | ebroad | your on a wInD0z3 machine? |
| 19:32.19 | leifmadsen | no, I'm on linux |
| 19:32.21 | ebroad | !!!! |
| 19:32.22 | ebroad | hehe |
| 19:32.38 | ebroad | thatll just echo 12345 to sed |
| 19:32.45 | leifmadsen | that works, but I can't run that in mantis (the bug tracker) |
| 19:32.57 | ebroad | hmm, mantis is php, correct? |
| 19:33.05 | leifmadsen | yes, but I don't know that I can use PHP |
| 19:33.10 | leifmadsen | it's just a regex field in the gui |
| 19:33.17 | leifmadsen | I'm not modifying the code |
| 19:33.49 | ebroad | does the regex field perform a replace? |
| 19:34.21 | leifmadsen | that's what I want to test -- I'm just testing the regex in vim for now, but I presume it'll support a regex substitute |
| 19:35.20 | leifmadsen | s/\(\d*\)/https:\/\/reviewboard.asterisk.org\/r\//1 works to the point of printing out the URL, but not adding the 365 to the end |
| 19:35.59 | ebroad | hmm, php's regex is just a wrapper around pcre |
| 19:36.22 | ebroad | that line plays nicely with sed |
| 19:36.37 | leifmadsen | hmmm |
| 19:37.00 | leifmadsen | I just tried adding s/\(\d*\)/https:\/\/reviewboard.asterisk.org\/r\//1 to the regex field, and it doesn't like the number 365 -- throws an arror |
| 19:37.01 | leifmadsen | error* |
| 19:40.45 | ebroad | try this |
| 19:40.47 | ebroad | s/(\d{3,6})/https\:\/\/reviewboard.asterisk.org\/r\//1 |
| 19:41.02 | ebroad | php doesnt need all the escaped \ like sed |
| 19:42.06 | leifmadsen | hmmm, giving me an invalid value... |
| 19:42.19 | leifmadsen | let me try changing the field type |
| 19:42.23 | leifmadsen | although string should allow numbers |
| 19:43.01 | leifmadsen | grrr... same thing |
| 19:50.09 | ebroad | doesnt look like php can do sed style regex |
| 19:51.23 | ebroad | the mantis field needs to call preg_replace() to do replacement |
| 19:51.37 | ebroad | heres a nice testbench |
| 19:51.38 | ebroad | http://www.spaweditor.com/scripts/regex/ |
| 19:54.33 | leifmadsen | I found a page that says it used ereg() |
| 19:57.27 | jsmith | leifmadsen: See #asterisk-doc |
| 19:58.24 | ebroad | ([0-9]{3,6}) would match the digit |
| 19:58.47 | ebroad | what options does mantis give you to format the output(im not familiar with mantis at all) |
| 19:59.23 | leifmadsen | it doesn't -- just gives me a text field |
| 19:59.41 | ebroad | and a field for the regex string? |
| 19:59.41 | leifmadsen | says RegEx [ ] |
| 19:59.44 | leifmadsen | yes |
| 19:59.56 | leifmadsen | [ ] is the text box |
| 20:00.07 | leifmadsen | I can't find any documentation on what it expects either really.... |
| 20:00.12 | ebroad | so its just one field |
| 20:00.30 | leifmadsen | ya |
| 20:01.20 | ebroad | looks like its only to control the fields input, not to format the output |
| 20:01.29 | ebroad | so could limit the field to a digit |
| 20:01.46 | leifmadsen | ah darn... |
| 20:01.50 | leifmadsen | that makes sense now |
| 20:01.53 | ebroad | but you would still need to find a way to control the output |
| 20:02.24 | leifmadsen | ya, I think that would require hacking the code |
| 20:02.29 | leifmadsen | wouldn't be hard I imagine... |
| 20:04.07 | leifmadsen | ok, thanks for the information -- I'll have to play with this at another time |
| 20:04.09 | leifmadsen | for now, the field exists :) |
| 20:04.14 | ebroad | yea |
| 20:04.47 | ebroad | you would need to basically have two different fields |
| 20:05.53 | ebroad | anyhow, for some reason i can edit the field on an open issue |
| 20:05.55 | leifmadsen | well, I could probably have it so it was set to a string and when you entered the number, it'd just sub the value out in the database. You might be right thought about the 2nd field if that didn't work |
| 20:05.57 | ebroad | *can't |
| 20:06.06 | leifmadsen | try again -- I just updated the regex |
| 20:06.09 | leifmadsen | (removed it) |
| 20:06.55 | ebroad | doesnt look like i can do anything aside from add notes |
| 20:07.07 | ebroad | unless i am missing something(probably) |
| 20:08.26 | leifmadsen | hmmmm, interesting |
| 20:08.34 | ebroad | you may need to make that field r/w by reporters |
| 20:08.35 | leifmadsen | it should allow you to because it is just reporter level modification |
| 20:08.40 | leifmadsen | ya, that's what I did |
| 20:08.43 | ebroad | hmm |
| 20:08.45 | ebroad | 1 sec |
| 20:08.47 | leifmadsen | do you see it in the Update Issue section? |
| 20:08.54 | ebroad | ill log out and log back in |
| 20:09.18 | leifmadsen | Write Access: Reporter |
| 20:09.22 | leifmadsen | Read Access: viewer |
| 20:09.39 | ebroad | i see it, but it doesnt allow me to edit it, no text box |
| 20:09.53 | leifmadsen | hmmmmmmmmm, that is very strange |
| 20:10.27 | leifmadsen | M15880 |
| 20:10.29 | MuffinMan | [confirmed] [Asterisk] Channels/chan_sip/TCP-TLS 0015880: [patch] Contact header port ignores transport when using externip reported by ebroad (Karma: +2.00) https://issues.asterisk.org/view.php?id=15880 |
| 20:10.31 | leifmadsen | I just added the link there |
| 20:10.57 | ebroad | sweet, thanks! |
| 20:11.04 | leifmadsen | see if you can modify that one though |
| 20:11.09 | leifmadsen | that seems very very odd that you can't |
| 20:11.15 | leifmadsen | because the write access is 'reporter' |
| 20:12.00 | ebroad | nope, chances are you may need to grant r/w rights to the issue itself for the reporter |
| 20:12.19 | leifmadsen | I doubt it... |
| 20:12.32 | leifmadsen | there isn't much I can do other than use the drop down box on the write access |
| 20:12.46 | ebroad | as a reporter there is no option to modify anything above notes aside from tags |
| 20:12.55 | ebroad | and files |
| 20:13.02 | leifmadsen | wait, are you in the Update Issue button? |
| 20:13.22 | ebroad | view issue |
| 20:13.36 | ebroad | My View --> Reported By Me |
| 20:13.46 | leifmadsen | ok, click on a specific issue, 15580 for example |
| 20:13.52 | leifmadsen | errr, 15880 |
| 20:13.56 | ebroad | got it |
| 20:14.06 | leifmadsen | then scroll down and you should see a Update Issue button just below the Attached Files field |
| 20:14.11 | leifmadsen | left side |
| 20:14.20 | ebroad | just monitor |
| 20:14.25 | leifmadsen | oh really |
| 20:14.37 | ebroad | yup |
| 20:14.39 | leifmadsen | wtf... you can't update the issue as a reporter? that seems annoying |
| 20:14.46 | leifmadsen | you only have Monitor Issue eh? |
| 20:14.55 | ebroad | yea, always did |
| 20:15.09 | leifmadsen | wow, that's odd, I figured as a reporter you should be able to see that button and update at least your own issues... |
| 20:15.19 | ebroad | i assumed you didnt want anyone adding anythign aside from patches and notes |
| 20:15.30 | ebroad | after they opened the issue |
| 20:15.31 | Qwell | leifmadsen: think about it though - you probably don't want it being edited out from under you |
| 20:16.10 | leifmadsen | Qwell: well, I guess so, but it seems like the reporter should be able to modify their topic or whatever |
| 20:16.19 | leifmadsen | interesting though :) |
| 20:16.59 | ebroad | i wonder if you could modify the review board so that it can set the field when the issue id is set |
| 20:17.11 | leifmadsen | I would say probably :) |
| 20:17.29 | leifmadsen | but that will be very low priority for the immediate future I imagine |
| 20:17.58 | ebroad | yup |
| 20:18.53 | leifmadsen | thanks for the suggestions though -- at least I have a place to put the link when someone says it in a note |
| 20:19.21 | ebroad | np, sorry for taking up your time with this |
| 20:19.34 | ebroad | its more of a nth thing |
| 20:20.06 | leifmadsen | no worries, I like to try and make things better in mantis |
| 20:20.11 | leifmadsen | too bad it didn't work out this time :) |
| 20:21.30 | ebroad | thats life, i guess a mantis feature request would be customized output for custom fields(if they don't already have it) |
| 20:28.09 | *** part/#asterisk-bugs |Cybex| (n=John@80.100.126.176) |
| 21:03.26 | *** join/#asterisk-bugs Dovid (n=annon@213.8.121.90) |
| 21:55.14 | leifmadsen | russellb: ping? |
| 22:04.45 | Qwell | ! |
| 22:04.48 | Qwell | M15356 |
| 22:04.50 | MuffinMan | [acknowledged] [Asterisk] Channels/chan_sip/General 0015356: After a few thousand calls, or at random, Asterisk stops receiving events from the network reported by falves11 (Karma: -1.5) https://issues.asterisk.org/view.php?id=15356 |
| 22:04.53 | Qwell | http://bugzilla.openvz.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1251 |
| 22:05.03 | Qwell | OpenVZ ~= Parallels, right? |
| 22:05.07 | Qwell | RIIIIIIIIGHT |
| 22:07.11 | Qwell | "OpenVZ is the basis of Parallels Virtuozzo Containers, a commercial virtualization solution offered by Parallels. OpenVZ project is supported by Parallels." |
| 22:07.13 | Qwell | Yes. Closing. |
| 22:07.33 | leifmadsen | eh? |
| 22:07.38 | Qwell | see link |
| 22:08.09 | leifmadsen | I see the link but don't understand what you're on about :) |
| 22:08.25 | leifmadsen | or do you mean it is a non-asterisk issue |
| 22:08.32 | Qwell | It's a non-Asterisk issue. |
| 22:08.35 | leifmadsen | nice |
| 22:08.38 | leifmadsen | close it! |
| 22:08.45 | Qwell | It's running out of sockets because OpenVZ is broke |
| 22:08.49 | leifmadsen | awesome |
| 22:08.52 | Qwell | M15627 |
| 22:08.53 | leifmadsen | lets blame asterisk |
| 22:08.54 | Qwell | really that one |
| 22:08.55 | MuffinMan | [ready for review] [Asterisk] Core/Netsock 0015627: [patch] Asterisk runs out of sockets reported by falves11 (Karma: -1.5) https://issues.asterisk.org/view.php?id=15627 |
| 22:09.38 | Qwell | there's a patch there though. hrm |
| 22:09.41 | leifmadsen | close'em both1 :) |
| 22:09.45 | leifmadsen | ya... the patch confuses me |
| 22:10.12 | Qwell | I don't see how the patch helps with leaked sockets |
| 22:10.38 | leifmadsen | close it! :) |
| 22:12.21 | Qwell | he says the patch helped though |
| 22:13.22 | leifmadsen | perhaps he was wrong |
| 22:17.51 | Qwell | or the openvz bug is just too convenient :D |
| 22:18.01 | Qwell | I'll leave it for now. I still don't trust Parallels though |
| 22:19.22 | leifmadsen | ya no kidding |
| 22:28.47 | Corydon76-lap | I don't trust that he says he needs all this performance, then he runs Asterisk in a virtual machine... |
| 22:29.30 | Corydon76-lap | Sounds hokey to me |