irclog2html for #asterisk-doc on 20060304

`00:11.11`	`*** join/#asterisk-doc jbot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)`
`00:11.11`	`*** topic/#asterisk-doc is http://www.asteriskdocs.org \|\| Asterisk: The Future of Telephony published by O'Reilly Media -- http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/asterisk/ -- neary 10,000 copies sold!`
`00:16.46`	`DarkFlib`	`okay... how many people would think that a company called 'uttervaporware' would generate money?`
`00:16.59`	`Alric`	`heh`
`00:18.40`	`jsmith`	`DarkFlib: I would!`
`00:19.20`	`DarkFlib`	`damn yanks.... :P`
`00:19.36`	`Alric`	`vapour?`
`00:19.45`	`DarkFlib`	`British spelling`
`00:19.48`	`Alric`	`Is that some kind of intense rainfall?`
`00:20.10`	`DarkFlib`	`like colour... or centre or tap... all the words you spell wrong`
`00:20.21`	`Alric`	`You mean the words you spell wrong?`
`00:20.29`	`DarkFlib`	`we inverted most of them...`
`00:20.37`	`Alric`	`inverted. Agreed.`
`00:20.48`	`DarkFlib`	`bah...`
`00:20.52`	`Alric`	`:)`
`00:20.54`	`DarkFlib`	`working against myself`
`00:21.03`	`Alric`	`What can I say?`
`00:21.15`	`jsmith`	`Well, we're two countries divided by a common language`
`00:21.16`	`DarkFlib`	`how the hell can you guys spell 'tap' worng?`
`00:21.29`	`jsmith`	`worng?`
`00:21.35`	`Alric`	`whats a worng?`
`00:21.37`	`DarkFlib`	`yeah... worng`
`00:21.40`	`DarkFlib`	`:P`
`00:21.40`	`Alric`	`Sounds like some kind of ground animal.`
`00:21.47`	`jsmith`	`tap, as in faucet type of tap?`
`00:22.10`	`DarkFlib`	`yes`
`00:22.16`	`DarkFlib`	`you spell it faucet`
`00:22.24`	`jsmith`	`I call it a tap`
`00:22.25`	`Alric`	`or SINK`
`00:22.25`	`Alric`	`!`
`00:22.49`	`DarkFlib`	`a sink is the basin that the tap pours water into`
`00:23.00`	`Alric`	`Its a package deal for me.`
`00:23.03`	`jsmith`	`Exactly...`
`00:23.07`	`jsmith`	`Alric: Huh?`
`00:23.16`	`Alric`	`The whole thing is a sink!`
`00:23.40`	`DarkFlib`	`I disagree...`
`00:24.18`	`DarkFlib`	`a sink is the opposite of a source... and the source in this case is the tap... hence the basin is the sink`
`00:24.39`	`DarkFlib`	`We do.. we share them with norway in the north sea`
`00:28.04`	`jsmith`	`I agree with DarkFlib -- the sink is not the whole thing`
`00:28.34`	`jsmith`	`Alric: No need to forge anything -- never heard of the North Sea?`
`00:28.37`	`Alric`	`Meh.`
`00:28.43`	`Alric`	`Yeah :P`
`00:29.00`	`jsmith`	`PONG!`
`00:29.08`	`DarkFlib`	`thought I was lagging`
`00:29.20`	`DarkFlib`	`we do... hundreds of nukes...`
`00:29.23`	`jsmith`	`You were -- 1.04 seconds`
`00:29.34`	`Alric`	`Man`
`00:29.37`	`DarkFlib`	`+ carriers, jump jets... troops etc`
`00:29.39`	`jsmith`	`Alric: One again, you go flapping your jaw about what you don't know`
`00:29.46`	`Alric`	`I bet the US will end up like Britain in a bit.`
`00:29.52`	`jsmith`	`Alric: I'll bet you've never even been to the UK`
`00:29.54`	`Alric`	`... yesterday's news.`
`00:29.56`	`Alric`	`I haven't :(`
`00:30.00`	`jsmith`	`Bingo!`
`00:30.10`	`Alric`	`The point wasn't that they don't have them :P`
`00:30.25`	`DarkFlib`	`UK is very much like the US in many respects... except we have less arogance...`
`00:30.26`	`DarkFlib`	`:P`
`00:30.28`	`Alric`	`The point was somewhat mocking vs the US Administration, as if proving oil reserves and WMD is enough to go to war :P`
`00:30.32`	`Alric`	`and power?`
`00:30.36`	`jsmith`	`DarkFlib: But we have better weather, and better food.`
`00:30.58`	`Alric`	`Thats okay. We'll both be displaced by China.`
`00:30.59`	`jsmith`	`Alric: Protecting one's interests in the region is reason enough.`
`00:31.16`	`DarkFlib`	`depends... you span how many timezones and latitudes... on a equiv land area... I'd bet it would be fairly even`
`00:31.50`	`DarkFlib`	`although we do have a lot of quirly foods`
`00:31.55`	`jsmith`	`DarkFlib: You have no idea -- I drove straight for 16 hours, and didn't even get 1/3 of the way across the country`
`00:31.57`	`DarkFlib`	`quirky even`
`00:32.14`	`jsmith`	`DarkFlib: But man, some of the imported food is tasty :-)`
`00:32.24`	`DarkFlib`	`8 hours can get you from landsend to john o groats here`
`00:32.29`	`DarkFlib`	`tip to tip`
`00:32.38`	`Alric`	`Taco Bell!`
`00:32.53`	`jsmith`	`DarkFlib: I could drive 8 hours in my native state of Wyoming and never leave the state!`
`00:33.06`	`jsmith`	`DarkFlib: Think take-away tacos...`
`00:33.20`	`DarkFlib`	`hmmm... do you get kebabs over there?`
`00:33.23`	`jsmith`	`DarkFlib: It's the Kentucky Fried Chicken of tacos`
`00:33.28`	`jsmith`	`DarkFlib: No, not most places`
`00:33.36`	`DarkFlib`	`very common over here`
`00:33.45`	`Alric`	`mhmmm, kebabs.`
`00:33.52`	`DarkFlib`	`most chip shops do them`
`00:33.53`	`jsmith`	`DarkFlib: We're a hamberger/tacos/chicken kind of country`
`00:34.02`	`Alric`	`mexican!`
`00:34.10`	`jsmith`	`Alric: I said tacos.`
`00:34.19`	`jsmith`	`Yeah, you don't get much Mexican food in the UK`
`00:34.20`	`DarkFlib`	`we get most things here... except mexican...`
`00:34.28`	`Alric`	`Jsmith: I was more expressing my desire for that kind of food :)`
`00:34.38`	`DarkFlib`	`I think I know 1 mexican in the whole country`
`00:34.41`	`Alric`	`Damn, this German resturant has the best steak / chicken / other stuff.`
`00:34.41`	`DarkFlib`	`county`
`00:34.45`	`jsmith`	`Alric: Run for the border`
`00:34.48`	`Alric`	`Made me proud to be German.`
`00:34.57`	`jsmith`	`You're German?`
`00:35.00`	`Alric`	`Guten tag!`
`00:35.02`	`Alric`	`Yes.`
`00:35.03`	`DarkFlib`	`it shows....`
`00:35.04`	`jsmith`	`Alric: That explains a log...`
`00:35.04`	`DarkFlib`	`:P`
`00:35.07`	`jsmith`	`s/log/lot/`
`00:35.23`	`Alric`	`Thats awesome.`
`00:35.25`	`DarkFlib`	`remember the war....`
`00:35.25`	`jsmith`	`My great-grandmother was German...`
`00:35.28`	`DarkFlib`	`:P`
`00:35.33`	`jsmith`	`DarkFlib: Good one!`
`00:35.34`	`Alric`	`Jared: Genia is Polish :)`
`00:36.02`	`jsmith`	`Alric: That explains even more... I'm surprised you both don't go start a colony in South America somewhere... oh wait, wrong religion.`
`00:36.26`	`DarkFlib`	`every time I've been germany they don't really care about the war...`
`00:36.44`	`DarkFlib`	`I've met more 'nationalist nazis' here than anywhere else`
`00:37.35`	`DarkFlib`	`http://gateway.technomonk.com/TechnoCommune.pdf <-- Open Source applied to living...`
`00:37.45`	`DarkFlib`	`its only a concept tho...`
`00:37.51`	`Alric`	`Communist!`
`00:37.55`	`DarkFlib`	`no`
`00:38.28`	`DarkFlib`	`although communism makes a lot of sense... except human nature is a big problem to work around`
`00:38.44`	`DarkFlib`	`corruption always breaks communism...`
`00:39.10`	`DarkFlib`	`a moderate social state makes sense tho...`
`00:39.19`	`Alric`	`Socialist!`
`00:39.33`	`jsmith`	`DarkFlib: Sounds like something the early settlers here in Utah tried...`
`00:39.43`	`DarkFlib`	`true socialism is flawed... without capitalism there is no drive for many people`
`00:40.04`	`jsmith`	`DarkFlib: They'd give all their property to their religious leader, and then he'd deed back to them only what they needed, and the rest would go towards the community.`
`00:40.31`	`DarkFlib`	`jsmith, it makes sense, but I don't think its viable...`
`00:40.37`	`jsmith`	`DarkFlib: That way, everyone still had what they needed, and had private property...`
`00:40.40`	`Alric`	`Not on a macro-scale...`
`00:40.43`	`jsmith`	`DarkFlib: It wasn't viable...`
`00:40.50`	`DarkFlib`	`I think just gifting 1/3rd of your time to the community should work just as well`
`00:41.07`	`Alric`	`how about 1/5th? :)`
`00:41.11`	`jsmith`	`DarkFlib: For what in return? Does the community really need that much time?`
`00:41.14`	`Alric`	`or 1/15th? ;)`
`00:41.18`	`DarkFlib`	`1/5th is also doable...`
`00:41.26`	`Alric`	`You want to spend 8 hours a day doing community service?`
`00:41.26`	`jsmith`	`Alric: Being stingy, are we?`
`00:41.44`	`DarkFlib`	`I was looking at it as a commune type idea... with the housing provided`
`00:41.51`	`jsmith`	`Alric: C'mon -- when's the last time you did any community service?`
`00:42.02`	`Alric`	`Senior in HS, mission trip to Mexico!`
`00:42.07`	`DarkFlib`	`1/3 of your working time that is`
`00:42.14`	`Alric`	`and that was 100% of the time, for a week.`
`00:42.19`	`Alric`	`We built a church!`
`00:42.27`	`jsmith`	`Alric: Ooooh, a whole week. You must be proud.`
`00:42.29`	`Alric`	`It was a service to that community, anyway.`
`00:43.01`	`jsmith`	`NACK`
`00:43.01`	`Alric`	`Don't mind the ticking noises. Its just the clock. Promise.`
`00:43.09`	`DarkFlib`	`but hackers have much more that they can give to the world as a whole...`
`00:43.31`	`jsmith`	`Depends -- I find it hard to lump hackers into a single category.`
`00:43.42`	`Alric`	`Isn't that true of everyone?`
`00:43.51`	`DarkFlib`	`hacking isn't just computers... you can hack physics`
`00:43.52`	`jsmith`	`They're all so different -- they have different motivations, different needs, different wants`
`00:43.55`	`jsmith`	`Sure...`
`00:44.08`	`DarkFlib`	`but most aren't driven by money`
`00:44.09`	`jsmith`	`But even if we're just talking programmer-hackers, you can't pin them down`
`00:44.27`	`jsmith`	`DarkFlib: I would say most think more money is better than less money`
`00:44.27`	`DarkFlib`	`the money is nice... its gives them a feeling of respect and value...`
`00:44.38`	`DarkFlib`	`but its not the reason they hack`
`00:44.52`	`DarkFlib`	`most have intangible reasons...`
`00:44.58`	`jsmith`	`Depends... Of the hackers I personally know, it's about half and half`
`00:45.03`	`DarkFlib`	`stuff they probably don't know themselves`
`00:45.08`	`jsmith`	`Some do it for fame`
`00:45.11`	`jsmith`	`Some do it for money`
`00:45.16`	`jsmith`	`Some do it because it's a job`
`00:45.27`	`jsmith`	`Some do it for the sheer joy of it`
`00:45.28`	`jsmith`	`Some do it for the social aspects`
`00:45.37`	`jsmith`	`Alric: Don't hurt yourself!`
`00:45.52`	`Alric`	`You're just laying it on thick today, aren't you?`
`00:46.02`	`DarkFlib`	`enjoy...`
`00:46.17`	`jsmith`	`Alric: I'm only giving you what you deserve...`
`00:46.20`	`Alric`	`:(`
`00:47.11`	`DarkFlib`	`I know it couldn't work for the whole population... but there is a reasonable minority that it could work for....`
`00:47.32`	`jsmith`	`DarkFlib: My question is this -- who washes the clothes and cooks the meals? Obviously not the hackers...`
`00:47.46`	`jsmith`	`DarkFlib: The good news is this -- you don't need showers!`
`00:47.48`	`DarkFlib`	`that would be part of the community service...`
`00:48.04`	`jsmith`	`You think hackers would donate 1/3 of their time to cook meals and wash clothes?`
`00:48.35`	`jsmith`	`They'd cook meals like they write web apps -- mangle something together and hope it doesn't kill somebody....`
`00:48.44`	`DarkFlib`	`no... I think they would donate 20 minutes a day to do that... the other hour or two would be spent on community benefiting projects...`
`00:50.36`	`Alric`	`I know this is going to sound strange, but I don't know many who would like such a... structured? life.`
`00:51.03`	`DarkFlib`	`doesn't need to be that structured...`
`00:51.18`	`Alric`	`If it wasn't, nothing would get done.`
`00:52.19`	`DarkFlib`	`its only a concept tho...`
`00:59.53`	`DarkFlib`	`1am`
`01:11.58`	`jsmith`	`Later!`
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