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| 06:15.17 | Zombie | I recompiled everything again. |
| 06:15.42 | Zombie | I've got the IMAP Voicemail module now. |
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| 06:41.56 | Zombie | May 18 02:40:38 kefka.pukey asterisk[3077]: [2020-05-18 02:40:38] ERROR[3077]: app_voicemail_imap.c:2856 inboxcount2: Couldn't find mailbox 6003 in context imapvoicemail |
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| 07:39.01 | Zombie | So, Anyone not fed up with me to tell me why this is happening? |
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| 09:03.37 | wonderworld | Zombie: what does "voicemail show users" say? |
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| 12:03.08 | Samot | JFC |
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| 12:07.28 | Zombie | Samot, I went ahead and migrated over the main system. |
| 12:07.36 | Zombie | Its running, its fine. |
| 12:07.39 | Samot | Great. |
| 12:07.51 | Zombie | I don't have IMAP Voice mail. |
| 12:08.10 | Samot | You mean it doesn't work? |
| 12:08.36 | Zombie | I did fix the IMAP Module's problem, and it does load but it acts like it can't find any mailboxes. |
| 12:09.53 | Samot | And do they exist? |
| 12:09.59 | Zombie | For now, I'm just using File System Voicemail. |
| 12:10.34 | Zombie | I have them defined, and the Folders exist in imap, and I've configured the voicemail.conf with the respective IMAP Logins. but no sale. |
| 12:11.00 | Samot | Couldn't find mailbox 6003 in context imapvoicemail |
| 12:11.06 | Samot | I don't know how more clear that can be. |
| 12:11.08 | Samot | Does that eist? |
| 12:11.14 | Samot | exist? |
| 12:11.21 | Zombie | I've changed them to Default. |
| 12:11.27 | Samot | OK |
| 12:11.35 | Zombie | Hold on, I'll pastebin what happens. |
| 12:11.38 | Samot | Have fun with that. No idea why you need IMAP voicemail. |
| 12:13.15 | Zombie | Replication. |
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| 12:15.38 | Samot | What? |
| 12:15.43 | Samot | What replication? |
| 12:15.55 | Zombie | IMAP Replication. |
| 12:16.07 | Samot | Why? |
| 12:16.10 | Samot | Seriously, why? |
| 12:16.17 | Samot | Why do you need IMAP replication? |
| 12:16.40 | Zombie | Have you ever lost E-mails to hard drive Crash? |
| 12:17.11 | Samot | Uhm. |
| 12:17.21 | Samot | Why do you need IMAP voicemail? |
| 12:17.36 | Samot | Why can't you just email yourself the voicemail and have that in an IMAP account? |
| 12:18.14 | Zombie | Because I had a really terrible experience with an SMTP server once. |
| 12:18.24 | Samot | HAHAHAHA. |
| 12:18.25 | Samot | OK. |
| 12:20.26 | Zombie | https://pastebin.pl/view/ff8274bd |
| 12:21.11 | Zombie | That's how it acts. |
| 12:21.56 | Samot | Well good luck with that. |
| 12:27.48 | Zombie | I assume you refuse to look at it? |
| 12:28.55 | Samot | IMAP voicemail? |
| 12:29.14 | Samot | The thing I have consistently said you don't need? |
| 12:29.15 | Zombie | My stuff in general. |
| 12:29.23 | sibiria | it certainly looks like a bug, but hard to know what the module is actually running into |
| 12:29.44 | Samot | sibiria: He's built his own RPMs which have been the source of all the issues. |
| 12:29.55 | sibiria | so i understood |
| 12:30.06 | Zombie | I'm happy to have gotten this far with all the trouble I have been through. |
| 12:30.13 | Zombie | Multiple recompiles. |
| 12:30.20 | Samot | Great. |
| 12:30.23 | sibiria | Zombie: if you want redundancy for the file storage there are better ways i suppose |
| 12:30.29 | Samot | It didn't need multiple recompiles. |
| 12:30.47 | Samot | It needed single compile with how we said to do it. |
| 12:30.56 | file | IMAP support is not really used by anyone, it is off-nominal usage and expect no help |
| 12:31.05 | sibiria | custom mockups of asterisk and its modules are also in the "unsupported" realm, so it may be hard even finding someone else who has spotted the same issue |
| 12:31.10 | Samot | It's like I said that, file. |
| 12:31.13 | Samot | Multiple times. |
| 12:32.34 | Zombie | Well you won. |
| 12:32.47 | Zombie | I provisioned a chroot. |
| 12:33.21 | sibiria | i would start off with regular backups of the voicemail file system portion, and if that wasn't sufficient i'd look into maybe using ZFS replication or so |
| 12:33.37 | sibiria | going IMAP on this seems a bit kludgy |
| 12:33.55 | Samot | I won? |
| 12:34.05 | Samot | Didn't realize I was out to win something. |
| 12:34.16 | sibiria | ...also i'd build this on a base asterisk system and not a custom product |
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| 12:35.58 | Samot | So let's be clear on something here.... |
| 12:36.35 | Samot | We've spent over a week or so dicking around with this Zombie and the biggest problem through out it all was the voicemail issue. Mainly due to your really poor RPM build/SPECs. |
| 12:37.04 | Samot | After all that, last night/yesterday we finally got your voicemail sorted out with the default voicemail app. |
| 12:37.25 | Samot | Today you came in and claimed "Mission Accomplished" server is done, migrated to it, everything is working. Yay! |
| 12:37.43 | Samot | Oh wait, VOICEMAIL IS STILL BROKE BECAUSE YOU WENT BACK TO F'ING IMAP VOICEMAIL |
| 12:40.41 | Zombie | I am using Filesystem Voicemail. |
| 12:40.43 | Zombie | For now. |
| 12:40.45 | Samot | You are now. |
| 12:40.51 | Samot | Because you can't get IMAP working |
| 12:41.11 | Samot | But you started this morning with "It all works but voicemail doesn't find the mailboxes" |
| 12:41.13 | Samot | Because IMAP. |
| 12:41.40 | Zombie | I'm content for now. |
| 12:42.00 | Samot | Well that's great. |
| 12:42.04 | wonderworld | IMAP voicemail sounds cool. |
| 12:42.05 | Samot | We're all happy for you. |
| 12:42.10 | Samot | It's not. |
| 12:42.15 | wonderworld | hehe, just joking |
| 12:42.25 | Samot | It's a PITA and has a rare use case need. |
| 12:43.03 | Zombie | Can I step back and bring up a broader issue? |
| 12:43.11 | Samot | ? |
| 12:43.21 | Zombie | This isn't Asterisk related. |
| 12:43.28 | wonderworld | corona? |
| 12:43.40 | Zombie | but one of you said something about replication. |
| 12:43.57 | Zombie | I have a NextCloud instance. |
| 12:46.02 | Zombie | I'd like to be able to Replicate my NextCloud instances. |
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| 12:48.44 | derjanni | Hey pbxers! |
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| 12:49.20 | derjanni | Is there any discussion/development on interconnecting with the proprietary solutions from Zoom, Microsoft Teams, Slack etc.? |
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| 12:53.44 | wonderworld | Zombie: you probably should go to #linux or #nextcloud, but DRBD might be something you are looking for. |
| 12:53.56 | Zombie | DRBD? |
| 12:56.31 | joepublic | https://duckduckgo.com/?q=drbd&ia=web |
| 12:59.34 | Zombie | Oh. |
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| 13:12.22 | Samot | Heh. |
| 13:12.54 | Samot | I wonder how many people's heads will explode with the maths I just laid down on them. |
| 13:13.38 | Samot | Someone asked if FreePBX has a CPS management tool. |
| 13:13.51 | Samot | When asked how many CPS they need, they said 6 average. |
| 13:14.02 | Samot | Which means they haven't done the maths on this. |
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| 13:14.39 | Zombie | derjanni, We'd need to get a Pidgin module for Teams first. |
| 13:14.54 | Samot | Because I would love to see a call center doing 6 CPS using FreePBX for it. |
| 13:17.12 | Samot | derjanni: Here is the thing with your request, follow me now. Those are all closed source systems. |
| 13:20.02 | Zombie | Samot, I have personal experience with this unfortunately. |
| 13:20.34 | Zombie | The Hospital moved us from Skype for Business to Teams, breaking my ability to use Pidgin. |
| 13:21.27 | Samot | That doesn't mean much |
| 13:21.35 | Samot | That could be a configuration issue. |
| 13:21.48 | wonderworld | whats CPS? Calls per second? |
| 13:21.53 | Samot | Yes |
| 13:22.06 | wonderworld | wow seems to be a busy call center |
| 13:22.14 | Samot | Well |
| 13:22.34 | Samot | Push 6 CPS would mean you've done at least 500K in minutes for the day |
| 13:22.35 | Zombie | Louis Rossman uses FreePBX. |
| 13:22.53 | Samot | And have about 300K worth of answered calls, based on call center stats. |
| 13:23.01 | Samot | I.e. short calls. |
| 13:23.21 | sibiria | we're an automated call center. most of our answered calls end in ~45 seconds. in this regard 6 CPS is nothing |
| 13:23.50 | Samot | sibria: So you're doing over 500K of minutes in a day? |
| 13:23.50 | sibiria | COMPUTERS ARE SO MUCH BETTER THAN HUMANS!!1 |
| 13:23.58 | Samot | Over 300K of answered calls? |
| 13:24.16 | sibiria | that would imply 50% pickup rate which is nowhere near reality |
| 13:24.30 | Samot | So you aren't doing 500K in minutes daily? |
| 13:24.39 | Samot | Or 300K in answered calls daily? |
| 13:24.44 | sibiria | our observation over the years is that no matter the clientel, market, age, nationality etc. pick-up rates are closer to 15% |
| 13:25.00 | Samot | Because about 100K in minutes / 60K in answered calls is roughly 2-3 CPS |
| 13:25.27 | sibiria | we've probably done 100k calls in a day at some point - a day meaning 8 hours |
| 13:25.40 | Samot | 100K in answered calls? |
| 13:25.44 | Samot | There is a difference. |
| 13:25.44 | sibiria | yeah |
| 13:25.58 | Samot | And what is your ASR? |
| 13:25.58 | sibiria | we have the capacity for more, should we face a project requiring it |
| 13:26.32 | Samot | So you got 100K of answered calls out of X calls? |
| 13:26.48 | Samot | And this is outbound, correct? |
| 13:26.50 | sibiria | like i said, 15% ASR is what we see as the norm no matter what/where/who |
| 13:26.58 | sibiria | outbound, yes |
| 13:27.05 | Samot | That's a horrible ASR. |
| 13:27.18 | sibiria | people don't like phone calls. it ties them up |
| 13:27.33 | sibiria | we see a lot higher response on SMS communications than telephony |
| 13:27.47 | wonderworld | people *hate* inbound phone calls from machines |
| 13:28.14 | sibiria | we can probably find some isolated case, with a very specific type of end customer and market segment, where we can see 50%+ ASR |
| 13:28.18 | sibiria | but it's just not the norm |
| 13:29.11 | sibiria | an example would be if we'd run a project for some bank to contact customers, assuming customers had the caller ID (bank office number etc.) in their contacts |
| 13:29.29 | sibiria | important business and known caller; usually a bit higher ASR but not always |
| 13:29.45 | sibiria | people hate taking phone calls simply |
| 13:31.30 | wonderworld | so you are mass spreading hate as a business? ;) |
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| 13:43.19 | seanbright | it's lucrative |
| 13:43.29 | seanbright | recession proof, even |
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| 14:10.17 | drmessano | lol |
| 14:10.47 | drmessano | The Pidgin and Teams thing is great |
| 14:13.36 | Samot | I left it. |
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| 14:17.55 | drmessano | There is an Asterisk module for Teams |
| 14:18.04 | drmessano | chan_dahdi and chan_pjsip |
| 14:18.11 | drmessano | use the call-in number |
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| 14:21.24 | drmessano | Actually you can use SIP with Teams |
| 14:23.19 | wonderworld | i remember when microsoft aquired Skype. the first thing they did was to remove end-to-end encryption. after that it was useless. |
| 14:25.06 | drmessano | Well, these are not even remotely the same products |
| 14:26.51 | drmessano | Also, the consumer Skype got E2E in early 2018 |
| 14:27.20 | wonderworld | agreed, but i am very happy that I don't have to run my business on microsoft infrastructure. |
| 14:27.37 | drmessano | ok |
| 14:27.52 | drmessano | Do you use G Suite? |
| 14:27.57 | wonderworld | nope |
| 14:28.04 | drmessano | ok |
| 14:28.23 | wonderworld | everying cloud i use is self-hosted |
| 14:28.31 | wonderworld | <- tin head |
| 14:29.37 | wonderworld | ugly thing is, that i am slowly using the possibility to choose |
| 14:29.48 | wonderworld | i get locked out from essential things |
| 14:30.19 | wonderworld | for example my CC needs a 2FA app now that doesn't run on a device without google play services |
| 14:30.29 | wonderworld | using -> losing |
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| 14:33.33 | Samot | You mean the app only works on Andriod? |
| 14:34.13 | wonderworld | it only works on android with google play services. i have a stripped down android without google libraries. |
| 14:35.29 | Samot | So the app is only available in the store? Can't load it without the store? |
| 14:35.42 | Zombie | wonderworld, Same here. |
| 14:36.08 | wonderworld | there are gateways to the official play store. i can download every app. but the app checks at start if the devices has the google stuff or not. |
| 14:36.24 | wonderworld | there are ways around this as well, but it's getting more and more complicated |
| 14:36.35 | Samot | There's no iOS option? |
| 14:37.05 | wonderworld | sure there is, but i trust AOSP more than Apple so a stripped down Android is my OS of choice. |
| 14:37.14 | Zombie | Same here. |
| 14:37.16 | *** join/#asterisk verzo (~verzo@gateway/tor-sasl/verzo) |
| 14:38.04 | Samot | I was just curious. |
| 14:38.19 | Samot | Considering how much market share iOS took last year. |
| 14:39.12 | Samot | It went from about 25% of the market to almost 45-ish% |
| 14:39.33 | Samot | So that was a 20% (roughly) increase in the market. A 20% that Android lost. |
| 14:41.19 | wonderworld | In Europe, Android is still king. https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/184516/umfrage/marktanteil-der-mobilen-betriebssysteme-in-europa-seit-2009/ |
| 14:42.24 | sibiria | i don't trust anything google |
| 14:42.42 | sibiria | full insight into user data and habits is their business |
| 14:42.59 | sibiria | (not apple's business) |
| 14:44.02 | sibiria | google keeps getting caught in privacy intrusion cases, and they keep tip-toeing around what they collect and how it's used, while apple have been very clear always about what they collect and how they use it |
| 14:47.02 | wonderworld | knowledge is power and they know everything about everybody. i try to leak as less data as possible. but as i said, it's getting harder and harder. |
| 14:47.05 | Samot | Ya know I find that funny. |
| 14:47.22 | Samot | Won't use Google because they collect your data. |
| 14:47.58 | *** join/#asterisk verzo (~verzo@gateway/tor-sasl/verzo) |
| 14:48.05 | Samot | And this is just in general now. But when I see people like that they generally also end up at some real questionable sites to begin with. |
| 14:48.46 | wonderworld | i know the views on this topic differ widely. For me, my way is the way to go but I don't blame others if they think it's not theirs. |
| 14:49.09 | wonderworld | And of course. I do use Google search. But I don't want them to record my whole life 24/7. |
| 14:49.11 | igcewieling | *shrug* stop carrying a cellphone. problem solved. |
| 14:49.25 | Samot | Well, it is like listening to someone complain about Google then say "check out this resource I found" and link you to a .ru site. |
| 14:49.37 | wonderworld | hehe |
| 14:49.39 | Samot | Google's collection of data is not related to cell phones. |
| 14:49.41 | wonderworld | rusearch.ru |
| 14:49.43 | sibiria | the thing with android that few people realize is that it's just one more google product in their portofolio, with the exact same mission as all the others. it just happens to be the most powerful product |
| 14:50.52 | sibiria | portfolio* |
| 14:51.26 | Samot | So what about everyone else? |
| 14:51.34 | Samot | Google isn't the only one collecting data. |
| 14:51.46 | sibiria | no, they're just the biggest and nastiest crook in it |
| 14:51.53 | Samot | Perhaps. |
| 14:52.02 | sibiria | by comparison apple's collection pales |
| 14:52.11 | Samot | I'm not comparing them to just Apple. |
| 14:52.12 | sibiria | practically nothing being collected |
| 14:52.24 | Samot | Again... |
| 14:52.43 | Samot | I've seen people go off on this type of rant but then offer up some really questionable sites for their sources. |
| 14:53.02 | Samot | So while they avoided Google collecting their shit, someone else on that funky website did. |
| 14:53.05 | sibiria | i get all my national news and current events from watching Family Guy |
| 14:53.18 | Samot | Dude. |
| 14:53.25 | Samot | I'm talking about just in general. |
| 14:53.28 | wonderworld | i whitelist every cookie and javascript on every website i visit and have a pretty large ad/tracking/spam DNS-filter |
| 14:53.35 | Samot | Rant about Google and them stealing your data... |
| 14:53.37 | wonderworld | but i am extreme i guess |
| 14:53.50 | Samot | But go to random site for forums/blogs that hit you with 50 ads. |
| 14:54.03 | Samot | wonderworld: The average user isn't you. |
| 14:54.37 | wonderworld | i know that, but i can speak for me only. |
| 14:54.49 | Samot | I got five other people in my house. You know how many are concerned about this? |
| 14:54.53 | Samot | 0 |
| 14:54.57 | wonderworld | average user is completely lost, even if he doesn't want all that stuff. |
| 14:56.01 | Samot | It's not that the average user is completely lost. |
| 14:56.15 | Samot | It's just that the average user is unconcerned. |
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| 14:56.48 | wonderworld | well, the concerned average user installs super privacy guard mega tool and thinks he is fine, but he isn't |
| 14:56.56 | Samot | Take a look at your app you're talking about. |
| 14:57.03 | Samot | Doesn't work without Google Play Services... |
| 14:57.22 | Samot | Why? Because Google Play Services offers up a bunch of things for them that they didn't need to do on their own. |
| 15:00.45 | wonderworld | yes, they did very smart strategic moves over many years. |
| 15:01.20 | Samot | Well take a look at FreePBX. |
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| 15:01.55 | Samot | It offers commercial modules for things. Most of which you and I would go " I don't need to pay for it, I know how to do it" |
| 15:02.19 | Samot | Others would go "I don't know how to do it, so I'm going to buy this" |
| 15:02.40 | Samot | Or they may go "I know how to do this but paying for it with support, et al. is better." |
| 15:02.56 | Samot | People expect things to just be done for them now. |
| 15:03.05 | Samot | Because that's where we've gone. |
| 15:03.32 | wonderworld | true |
| 15:04.03 | wonderworld | i try to make a difference for myself in areas i have influence on. but i understand that 99% don't care. |
| 15:04.23 | Samot | Back in the early days of FreePBX people would have thrown money at them to get a device manager in place. |
| 15:04.50 | Samot | Fast forward to 2020, I see Reddit threads and other posts where it's "Why do I have to pay for this? It should just be there!" |
| 15:06.10 | Samot | Hell take telecom as an example. |
| 15:06.40 | Samot | It's 2020 and people still think that telecom's are doing copper for POTS, T1, PRI from end to end. |
| 15:09.02 | wonderworld | the good thing is: no matter what they think about the infrastructure below the GUI, they depend on it. if you are in the position to fiddle with that infrastructure, you won't have any problems. |
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| 15:19.44 | Samot | How so? |
| 15:20.34 | wonderworld | i fear my english isn't well enough to be precise on the thing i want to point out |
| 15:22.06 | drmessano | I hate fiddling with the infrastructure |
| 15:23.23 | wonderworld | maybe this way: they think telco is made of copper. it's wrong. they depend on telco and have a wrong understanding of it. you have a better understanding of it. their wrong understanding doesn't change the facts. but if you understand the infrastructure you can create facts, even if they are not understood. |
| 15:24.42 | Samot | wonderworld: Oh bud, I wasn't talking about pure laymens. |
| 15:24.56 | Samot | Self described "VoIPers" still don't know this stuff. |
| 15:25.16 | Samot | Also, how does one create facts? Wouldn't that just be making them up? |
| 15:25.31 | Samot | Perhaps the language barrier is skewing this a bit. |
| 15:26.03 | wonderworld | i think so. sadly i have to leave now, but we will chat another time. this was an interesting discussion. |
| 15:30.26 | drmessano | I remember when I was all like "I won't use that unless it has a Pidgin plugin" |
| 15:30.30 | drmessano | I was so adorable back then |
| 15:37.12 | Samot | Pidgin..heh |
| 15:37.16 | Samot | I remember using that all the time |
| 15:37.31 | Samot | Back when I had an AOL account too. |
| 15:37.48 | Samot | Because it let me do all the fun stuff together. ICQ, AOL, Yahoo... |
| 15:44.00 | Samot | Oh...remember ICQ. |
| 15:44.13 | igcewieling | I still use Pidgin |
| 15:44.25 | Samot | I still use it for testing things. |
| 15:44.58 | igcewieling | What do you use for IRC? |
| 15:47.00 | drmessano | I tried to use Pidgin for IRC |
| 15:47.15 | drmessano | it was sorta like IMAP voicemail |
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| 15:50.46 | Samot | I use IRCCloud for IRC. |
| 15:50.58 | Samot | Because it works on multiple devices. |
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