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| 01:28.53 | joako | I can make a call. I can receive a call. But the moment I try to forward inbound call to external number there is no audio on the call. How can I solve this? |
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| 01:36.59 | Samot | How are you forwarding this call? |
| 01:41.31 | joako | Dial(sip/provider/number) |
| 01:41.36 | joako | Call rings just there is no audio |
| 01:45.36 | Samot | Show a sip debug of this. |
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| 01:58.09 | joako | I did a trace on the outbound leg and it seems to be an inbound issue. The outbound has no errors and normal call clearing |
| 02:00.50 | Samot | What does normal call clearing have to do with audio? |
| 02:01.02 | Samot | It means the call connected and then was disconnected. |
| 02:01.05 | Samot | It was an answered call. |
| 02:01.09 | Samot | That's all that means. |
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| 02:10.06 | joako | Its part of the sip debug |
| 02:32.37 | joako | If I add Progress() to the inbound leg everything works. Suddenly rtp debug shows messages too, before not a peep |
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| 20:49.00 | vasilakisfil | hey folks why do you think sip is not more popular ? sip was designed to be an open protocol, yet we are full of silos everywhere |
| 20:51.00 | WIMPy | Is there anything else in use any more? |
| 20:55.26 | vasilakisfil | what do you mean? people are using all sort of silos: hangouts,meet,fb,whatsapp,telegram,viber etc |
| 20:55.58 | WIMPy | Ah, the closed communities. Yes. |
| 20:56.38 | WIMPy | But it makes sure it works within its bounds. |
| 20:57.35 | aNullValue | IMO we're full of silos because they're the only implementations that _actually_ work in a user-friendly manner, on nearly any device you can think of, and generally without any out of pocket cost |
| 20:57.40 | aNullValue | none of those things are true for SIP |
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| 21:03.06 | vasilakisfil | I just feel that with the win of Pulver Order by Jeff Pulver, companies could innovate without having to follow the beraucratic regulations of telecoms, so we got services like Skype quite fast and helped anyone to communicate remotely. But 20 years later, it hams the user experience, because without regulations everyone is building a silo and that's it |
| 21:03.44 | vasilakisfil | it's like having email in yahoo and being able to send an email only to @yahoo mails |
| 21:04.17 | WIMPy | Yes, but we already know rhat from all sorts of other services. |
| 21:04.53 | WIMPy | There aren't many users left on IRC, either. |
| 21:05.24 | WIMPy | The so called social networks completed the fragmentation. |
| 21:06.36 | Samot | Huh. |
| 21:07.24 | Samot | WIMPy: SIP is an open protocol. |
| 21:07.40 | Samot | WIMPy: SIP being an open protocol has nothing to do with how it is being used. |
| 21:07.45 | Samot | Asterisk is FOSS |
| 21:07.45 | WIMPy | Yes, just as IRC. |
| 21:07.56 | Samot | Yes Asterisk is used in many commercial applications. |
| 21:08.12 | WIMPy | But unlike IRC, SIP is known for all sorts of issues. And the implementations are even worse. |
| 21:08.22 | Samot | Like what? |
| 21:08.36 | Samot | SIP is basically the de facto way telephony is handled now. |
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| 21:09.00 | WIMPy | Jes, and it fails quite regularly. |
| 21:09.07 | Samot | Does it? |
| 21:09.14 | WIMPy | Yes. |
| 21:09.15 | Samot | checks his network logs.. |
| 21:09.21 | Samot | Nope, no regular failures. |
| 21:09.32 | Samot | WIMPy: I've run providers for a long time. |
| 21:09.38 | Samot | I don't see how it fails "regularly" |
| 21:09.55 | WIMPy | I see lots of intermittant "server internal errors" as well as RTP issues. |
| 21:10.03 | Samot | In what? |
| 21:11.02 | Samot | As someone who has done POTS, PRI/T1s and SIP |
| 21:11.05 | WIMPy | The classic Telcos are gereelly pretty bad with their implementations. |
| 21:11.06 | Samot | They all fail |
| 21:11.48 | Samot | So ATT and Verizon are bad at it? |
| 21:12.17 | WIMPy | I have hardly seen issues in the PSTN/ISDN days. But then that stuff was designed to work. |
| 21:12.24 | Samot | Really? |
| 21:12.26 | WIMPy | No Idea. I'm in Germany. |
| 21:12.32 | Samot | First, PSTN is everything |
| 21:12.38 | Samot | Public Switched Telephone Network |
| 21:12.44 | Samot | That includes SIP. |
| 21:13.07 | file | if using German providers, I'm not surprised |
| 21:13.11 | Samot | Yes. |
| 21:13.12 | WIMPy | That is neither switched nor a network. |
| 21:13.24 | WIMPy | It's just a sevice in the internet. |
| 21:13.25 | Samot | German providers have the worst SIP setups I've seen. |
| 21:13.48 | WIMPy | Yes. They are really bad. |
| 21:13.48 | Samot | WIMPy: The PSTN is how the individual carriers switch their calls between each other. |
| 21:14.11 | Samot | Be it copper, fiber or IP |
| 21:14.47 | Samot | Just like the Internet the PSTN is a collection of networks. |
| 21:14.55 | WIMPy | Interconnects have been SIP for a long time. And that's one of the places causing trouble. |
| 21:15.22 | Samot | Spoken like someone that is unaware. |
| 21:16.38 | WIMPy | My favourite is a certain provider limiting RTP packets to 90/s which is great if someone sends you 10ms packets. |
| 21:19.02 | vasilakisfil | I am seeing a pattern lately, saas that offer sip trunking and international numbers: twilio, telnyx, messagebird etc. I feel like the market is changing ? like before we would have isps distributing numbers, now isps become even smaller and such companies take part of their market |
| 21:19.56 | Samot | Well |
| 21:20.08 | Samot | Let's understand something about places like Twilio and what not.. |
| 21:20.18 | Samot | Those aren't telecoms. |
| 21:20.25 | Samot | They are development platforms. |
| 21:21.25 | vasilakisfil | yeah I agree these are not telecoms, the sit one layer above |
| 21:21.42 | Samot | Who sits one layer above? |
| 21:22.06 | vasilakisfil | I think twilio sits one layer above telecom companies |
| 21:22.41 | sibiria | twilio uses a large aggreggator, at least for SMS |
| 21:22.55 | Samot | No. |
| 21:23.08 | Samot | Twilio is dependent of telecom companies. |
| 21:23.15 | Samot | Because they are not a telecom company. |
| 21:23.24 | Samot | They need someone to supply them with DIDs. |
| 21:23.36 | Samot | They need someone to supply them with a connection to the PSTN. |
| 21:23.43 | vasilakisfil | yeah exactly |
| 21:23.54 | Samot | So Twilio is a layer below the telecoms. |
| 21:23.59 | Samot | Telecoms are the top layer. |
| 21:24.08 | vasilakisfil | ah ok yeah depends how you see it |
| 21:24.17 | Samot | See what? |
| 21:24.26 | Samot | Telecoms are needed for PSTN connectivity |
| 21:24.51 | Samot | Unless your solution is 100% internal/on network or 100% IP to someone you are peering with... |
| 21:24.55 | Samot | You need the PSTN. |
| 21:24.55 | WIMPy | ... where a PSTN still exists. |
| 21:25.02 | Samot | GD. |
| 21:25.07 | vasilakisfil | yeah I am seeing it as if pstn is on the bottom and an application is on the top layer |
| 21:25.07 | Samot | The PSTN will ALWAYS EXIST |
| 21:25.12 | sibiria | PSTN exists everywhere. maybe you mean the POTS |
| 21:25.13 | Samot | It's how CARRIERS TALK TO EACH OTHER |
| 21:25.37 | Samot | No. |
| 21:25.41 | Samot | Copper. |
| 21:25.55 | WIMPy | I do not call some collection of IP applications a PSTN. |
| 21:25.58 | Samot | Plain Ole Telephone Service is a way to describe the level of service. |
| 21:26.16 | Samot | WIMPy: It's not a collection of IP applications. |
| 21:26.21 | Samot | There's more than IP involved. |
| 21:26.31 | WIMPy | Hardly. |
| 21:26.44 | Samot | WIMPy: How much actual telecom experience do you have? |
| 21:26.53 | Samot | How many years have you worked in telecom? |
| 21:26.55 | WIMPy | Here in our city we still have a PSTN, but that's a rarity. |
| 21:27.00 | Samot | HAHAH |
| 21:27.01 | Samot | OK |
| 21:27.12 | sibiria | it's rare in your city to see people with cell phones etc.? |
| 21:27.13 | Samot | Copper/Analog != PSTN |
| 21:27.14 | WIMPy | Hmmm. some 25. |
| 21:27.24 | Samot | Cell carriers are part of the PSTN |
| 21:27.33 | Samot | Traditional carriers are part of the PSTN |
| 21:27.42 | Samot | IP Carriers are part of the PSTN |
| 21:27.58 | Samot | The PSTN is how public telephone networks interact with each other. |
| 21:27.58 | sibiria | PSTN = public switched telephone network. the public telephony grid, regardless of it's cellular, VoIP or POTS |
| 21:28.00 | WIMPy | They are called PLMN and today they are usually IP only as well. |
| 21:28.08 | sibiria | it's a broad term |
| 21:28.52 | Samot | So it's just not SIP German telecoms fubar'd. |
| 21:29.14 | WIMPy | So what is it? |
| 21:29.38 | Samot | Well when someone refers to the PSTN, at least here in North America... |
| 21:29.50 | Samot | It refers to how the top tier carriers interconnect with each other. |
| 21:30.00 | Samot | Not if it's copper, fiber or IP. |
| 21:31.10 | WIMPy | So you're talking about a namespace? |
| 21:31.23 | Samot | What namespace? |
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| 21:31.36 | WIMPy | Phone numbers. |
| 21:34.07 | Samot | Well we use Local Routing Numbers. |
| 21:34.18 | Samot | Because numbers can float between carriers. |
| 21:34.28 | Samot | So the actual number, meh. |
| 21:35.04 | Samot | When I port a number from ATT to Verizon my number stays the same, the LRN changes. |
| 21:35.27 | Samot | So that when others look up that number, they are told "send it to Verizon" instead of ATT. |
| 21:36.41 | WIMPy | Sure. But what's the argument? |
| 21:36.54 | Samot | That's part of the PSTN |
| 21:36.57 | Samot | How numbers are routed |
| 21:37.00 | Samot | Who controls them |
| 21:37.09 | Samot | How other carriers can figure that out. |
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| 21:56.12 | dcowan-london | Has anyone set up a Grandstream HT813? |
| 21:58.23 | dcowan-london | Is anyone on here? |
| 21:59.53 | WIMPy | What was the keyword for meta questions? |
| 22:07.49 | Samot | dcowan-london: Non answers could just imply no one has. |
| 22:08.00 | Samot | dcowan-london: What is the issue you are having? |
| 22:12.30 | dcowan-london | I couldn't figure out how to get it to pass a call from the FXO port to Asterisk, but I found the right setting. |
| 22:14.43 | dcowan-london | Now I'm trying to get Caller ID working. |
| 22:14.50 | dcowan-london | In the UK |
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| 22:54.53 | dcowan-london | Giving up on the caller ID then. No results after trying both https://www.ukvoipforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=1061 and https://forums.grandstream.com/t/ht813-uk-caller-id-name-issues/43543. |
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