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| 14:22.25 | brlcad | i should make the "real name" the users web browser, I think |
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| 17:39.23 | nvdstruis | Hello all |
| 17:39.52 | brlcad | hello :) |
| 17:39.58 | brlcad | i see you finally found a client that works? |
| 17:40.15 | nvdstruis | yes, you mean an irc client ? |
| 17:40.20 | brlcad | yep |
| 17:40.33 | nvdstruis | I'm using firefox |
| 17:40.39 | brlcad | cgi:irc can be a pain |
| 17:40.55 | nvdstruis | I'm not into IRC, yet |
| 17:41.08 | brlcad | you might like xchat or irssi much better if you hang around more |
| 17:41.16 | brlcad | the web-based interface is rather limiting |
| 17:41.27 | brlcad | but certainly useable enough (with the right browsers) |
| 17:41.42 | nvdstruis | thanks again for your help |
| 17:42.06 | brlcad | haven't helped you yet I think, but you're welcome ;) |
| 17:42.40 | nvdstruis | yes, you helped me solve the question I posted about the linker errors |
| 17:42.53 | brlcad | ahh, okay |
| 17:43.02 | brlcad | thought the name looked familiar |
| 17:43.16 | nvdstruis | right :) it's the same |
| 17:43.26 | brlcad | sorry it took so long .. :) |
| 17:43.42 | brlcad | would have taked about 4 days less in here :) |
| 17:43.52 | nvdstruis | oh, actually I was very happy it worked |
| 17:44.14 | brlcad | what version did you say you were using there? 7.2.2? |
| 17:44.25 | nvdstruis | yes, 7.2.2 |
| 17:44.55 | brlcad | hrm, that's rather odd that you needed -lm -ldl -lpthread then |
| 17:45.12 | nvdstruis | I haven't used anything else then the mged and raytrace stuff though |
| 17:45.33 | brlcad | you have seen the tutorial manuals? |
| 17:45.44 | nvdstruis | yes a little |
| 17:45.49 | brlcad | k |
| 17:46.10 | nvdstruis | are you a brlcad core developer? |
| 17:46.15 | brlcad | might I ask what sort of application you're looking to develop? |
| 17:46.20 | brlcad | yes |
| 17:46.37 | nvdstruis | sure, but it will take time to explain |
| 17:46.46 | brlcad | and I manage most of the open source activities to boot too |
| 17:47.01 | nvdstruis | first I will explain some background |
| 17:47.19 | nvdstruis | I work with TNO in the Netherlands |
| 17:47.46 | nvdstruis | we are like the defense research institute |
| 17:48.49 | nvdstruis | they use brlcad components at my work for building models of tanks and ships at my work |
| 17:49.03 | nvdstruis | and for raytracing of course |
| 17:49.17 | nvdstruis | still there ? |
| 17:49.22 | brlcad | oooh, TNO :) |
| 17:49.28 | nvdstruis | ok |
| 17:49.39 | brlcad | yes, I fade in and out.. if I don't answer, I'm within earshot |
| 17:49.58 | nvdstruis | a was asked to implement a model for heat transfer in ship compartments |
| 17:50.06 | brlcad | or I'll read the log when I return.. another benefit of a non-cgi:irc irc client |
| 17:50.15 | nvdstruis | ok |
| 17:50.18 | brlcad | okay |
| 17:50.23 | brlcad | do you know Wim? |
| 17:50.50 | nvdstruis | Wim Bokkers I presume ? Yes, he's a collegue |
| 17:51.02 | brlcad | yes, he's the guy |
| 17:51.10 | brlcad | good to know |
| 17:51.15 | brlcad | sorry for the interruptions, continue ;) |
| 17:51.50 | nvdstruis | so, I needed to evaluate so called shape factors of components like walls in a compartment |
| 17:52.12 | nvdstruis | they are an important parameter in radiation heat transfer |
| 17:52.43 | brlcad | okay |
| 17:53.05 | brlcad | we do something similar in our analysis codes |
| 17:53.09 | nvdstruis | analytical relations are available to determine those shape factors for simple well defined configurations |
| 17:53.25 | nvdstruis | like perpendicular rectangular surfaces |
| 17:54.04 | nvdstruis | but a problem arises, because not all compartments are perfectly shaped boxes :) |
| 17:54.19 | brlcad | i can imagine :) |
| 17:55.00 | brlcad | slightly unsquare peg into a square hole kind of problem or more like a sphere into box problem? |
| 17:55.01 | nvdstruis | I read a book on radiation heat transfer and found a so called Monte Carlo simulation to determine these shape factors |
| 17:55.52 | nvdstruis | exactly, real world compartments with odd shapes |
| 17:57.26 | nvdstruis | the Monte Carlo simulation says I should emit a ray from a random surface position in a random direction, a lot of times |
| 17:57.41 | brlcad | Btw, before I forget yet again, did you know that you could have compiled and ran rtexample from the source distribution? it gets built along with everything else -- cd src/rt ; rm rtexample ; make rtexample |
| 17:57.49 | brlcad | it just doesn't get installed |
| 17:58.06 | nvdstruis | then I should evaluate I didn't kow |
| 17:58.09 | nvdstruis | know |
| 17:58.32 | brlcad | yes, monte carlo estimation is useful |
| 17:58.41 | brlcad | it's can be very slow to converge though |
| 17:59.12 | nvdstruis | yes, I hoped that with a fast library it could be acceptable |
| 17:59.18 | brlcad | the photon mapping lighting model in brl-cad is a pseudo monte carlo estimation |
| 17:59.54 | nvdstruis | why pseudo ? because it is somehow controlled ? |
| 18:00.20 | brlcad | how different are your various shape factors? it might be easier to classify via some other known metrics |
| 18:00.30 | brlcad | it is controlled/bounded |
| 18:01.06 | brlcad | it doesn't continue to a tolerance, it continues to what you specify and it works in phases |
| 18:01.38 | brlcad | there's first a photon propagation step that is a monte carlo distribution |
| 18:01.52 | nvdstruis | I don't really know how different the shape factors are |
| 18:01.57 | brlcad | then multiple gathering and computation phases |
| 18:02.38 | nvdstruis | I should check that out, could save a lot of time |
| 18:02.42 | brlcad | if they are very well defined shapes that are very different, you can know the shape information almost instantly using the known object types |
| 18:03.30 | brlcad | but if the shapes are complex and only slightly different, you are probably better off with a MC simulation |
| 18:03.55 | nvdstruis | I would like to compare those two options |
| 18:05.09 | brlcad | need to know what your shape factors are first :) |
| 18:05.41 | brlcad | btw, you can tell bokkers that I'm hoping to make some more progress on windows this weekend ;) |
| 18:06.03 | nvdstruis | ok, he's anxious I guess |
| 18:06.04 | brlcad | I feel bad that it's taken this long, but there's been very little I can do about it officially |
| 18:06.18 | brlcad | i make progress on my own time when I can |
| 18:06.45 | nvdstruis | I have similar time problems :) |
| 18:07.07 | nvdstruis | would like to learn better programming for example |
| 18:07.08 | brlcad | the political environment is very unfavorable right now for working on that, but being open source definitely has helped |
| 18:07.18 | brlcad | we now have lots of groups openly working on various problems |
| 18:07.37 | nvdstruis | has it worked out well, being open source? |
| 18:07.53 | brlcad | it's worked out great.. |
| 18:07.54 | nvdstruis | because of feedback from users ? |
| 18:08.11 | brlcad | there's been an explosion of feedback and interest |
| 18:08.27 | nvdstruis | cool, that's how it should be |
| 18:08.37 | nvdstruis | with all software |
| 18:08.37 | brlcad | we're the only open source solid modeler, with a large existing userbase, with a fair bit of documentation already |
| 18:08.57 | brlcad | millions of $$$ already invested, mature cross-platform software |
| 18:09.12 | brlcad | now we just have to fix the dang modeler :) |
| 18:09.24 | brlcad | make it less fugly |
| 18:09.31 | nvdstruis | :) fugly ?? |
| 18:09.38 | brlcad | f'ing ugly :) |
| 18:09.52 | nvdstruis | that's what I guessed :) |
| 18:10.25 | nvdstruis | I have to go, diner time |
| 18:10.33 | nvdstruis | I'll get back monday |
| 18:10.37 | brlcad | nice talking to you, cya around |
| 18:10.42 | nvdstruis | cya |
| 18:10.52 | brlcad | again, if nobody answers, go ahead and idle and I'll respond |
| 18:11.03 | brlcad | and into the night he flees |
| 18:11.27 | brlcad | or maybe it was fleas |
| 18:12.08 | brlcad | onward and outbound, to the bellybutton and beyond! |
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| 22:26.36 | cad929 | Can anyone help with a BRL-CAD OS X install from CVS source? |