| 00:26.29 | narnia | brlcad, does ed barkmeyer's reply make sense to you? |
| 00:50.01 | brlcad | some |
| 00:54.08 | narnia | which part? i have re-read it several times and to me he side stepped the whole point of my reply and then he went off into deep space with the windows and legacy code argument. |
| 01:13.07 | Twingy | picbrecrysoscillcryscrysthrm |
| 04:09.22 | narnia | brlcad, the most basic point i was attempting to make in my reply to ed barkmeyer was there needs to be a way to check any express language schema for syntax and semantic correctness. |
| 04:10.11 | narnia | brlcad, by allowing undeclared data types to remain in the schema there is no way to do that. |
| 04:11.05 | narnia | brlcad, it would be like saying the c++ complier should not produce an error if an undefined class is found in a source file. |
| 04:11.41 | narnia | brlcad, it would be like saying the c compiler should not produce an error if an undefined structure is found in a source file. |
| 04:16.57 | narnia | any parser needs to have a reference to verify from. what ed barymeyer is saying is that you do not get to have a reference since that code is in reality 'dead' code. it will never be hit therefore it does not matter whether it is syntactically and semantically correct. |
| 04:17.46 | narnia | that to me is totally illogical. if it is in reality 'dead' code remove it. |
| 04:18.55 | narnia | by removing the 'dead' code the resulting express language schema will be syntactically and semantically correct. |
| 04:19.09 | narnia | that does not necessarily mean that the express language schema does anything actually useful. |
| 04:41.58 | narnia | that is no different from c or c++. |
| 04:47.14 | narnia | why is it that iso standards are written by people in 'ivory' towers and not by the grunts who must make them work? |
| 05:26.29 | brlcad | devil's advocate, how does this all ultimately matter? so there's some issues in the schema, but apparently none that can't be either accounted for or ignored |
| 05:27.00 | brlcad | there are, after all, plenty of existing step file parsers and exporters/importers |
| 05:29.55 | brlcad | and actually from what I understand, he's saying that because some schema has issues (like 203) doesn't mean that the ap 11 syntax is incorrect |
| 05:31.05 | brlcad | maybe you two are arguing about different things .. the C language itself (his point) or a chunk of C code that's got problems (your point) |
| 05:33.06 | brlcad | either way, I don't think you're going to get much farther than what you have from him as it is .. and as I pointed out before, he's ultimately just one voice in a much larger/more complicated process as I suspected |
| 05:33.34 | brlcad | so probably good to take it up with the board as he suggests |
| 05:37.59 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/view.c: ws |
| 05:41.34 | narnia | 'how does this ultimately matter?' ap203 is just a good glaring example of the problem. ap201 is just plained hosed. other aps have similar problems. there is 'dead' code. there is no way to tell if the schema is in fact syntactically and semantically correct since there are undeclared contructs (mainly type, entity). |
| 05:42.36 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/worker.c: surround the pthread timing blocks with USE_FORKED_THREADS define instead of just using linux since there are plenty of linux systems where the statistics hack is not necessary |
| 05:45.11 | narnia | i am to tired and in far too much pain to think straight. the cold weather is taking a heavy toll on me. take it from me, growing old sucks. growing old and having multiple physical challenges really sucks. |
| 05:45.11 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewarea.c: if we're on a system that needs to USE_FORKED_THREADS to get proper statistics computations, it means that we cannot use global variables to store values so force rtarea to a single CPU so that we at least get the area |
| 05:48.10 | narnia | i am mentally tired. not from 10303 or brl-cad work. my bum of a son called tonight looking for yet another handout. i told him no. then he whined to his mother about how mean i am. well i am not the one who blew his college trust fund ( set up by both of his grandfathers ) on a 16 yo. whore. |
| 05:49.59 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (.cvsignore misc/.cvsignore): brlcad.spec.in moved from top-level to misc/ |
| 05:50.00 | narnia | to this day i do not know how he managed to blew $40+k in less than 2 yrs and have absolutely nothing and i do mean nothing to show for it. |
| 05:52.51 | brlcad | not even a really sweet computer setup? :) |
| 05:53.32 | narnia | brlcad, i have absolutely no idea if you are married or not or even have any children. if you are still single and no children may i strongly recommend that you stay that way. |
| 05:54.03 | narnia | brlcad, the computer he had, which he brought back, was one i retired. |
| 05:54.31 | brlcad | i meant that I could see dumping 40k on a computer setup |
| 05:54.42 | brlcad | or maybe a downpayment on a viper |
| 05:55.04 | narnia | nothing fancy but 950mhz pentium iii with 512 mbyte of ram, dvd drive, nvidia, etc. |
| 05:55.10 | narnia | nope |
| 05:55.44 | narnia | he is currently driving a $500.00 usd junk yard special ford van. |
| 05:56.50 | narnia | he was living here for awhile but that did not work out. so he is living with some friend of his from high school. |
| 05:59.28 | narnia | he was whining that he has no gas money. i suggested he find a job. he whined louder. |
| 05:59.55 | brlcad | he's a teenager I take it? |
| 06:01.16 | narnia | he is 21yo. he will 22yo in december. |
| 06:01.28 | brlcad | ah |
| 06:03.13 | narnia | right after graduating high school he married this barely 16 yo whore. |
| 06:04.46 | narnia | at that point a provision of the trust fund kicked in. he received the money in lump sum if he was married instead of yearly while in college. his soon to be ex-wife did not finish high school. |
| 06:06.04 | narnia | no he did not go to college. |
| 06:07.18 | narnia | money is all gone and so is his wife. so much for love. oh wait it was the money she loved not him. |
| 06:08.05 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed smp linux rtarea calculation bug |
| 06:08.50 | narnia | as you may be able to tell i am not in the best of mode tonight. |
| 06:11.31 | narnia | he will learn in the school of hard knocks. when he reaches my age (assuming that he does ) he can look back and know that he and he alone screwed up. |
| 06:12.56 | narnia | i should have hauled him down to the army recuiter and had him enlist after graduation from high school. |
| 06:15.08 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: more arg aliases for png, regex, tcl, itcl |
| 06:15.51 | narnia | hopefully none of the 3 children will have any offspring. no sense punishing any offspring for their parents being so stupid. |
| 06:21.11 | narnia | debian update with two large upgrades, gimp and openoffice. :-( |
| 07:04.04 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtermlib/ (Makefile.am termcap.c tgoto.c tputs.c): |
| 07:04.04 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: initial termlib library from an early original bsd implementation (that predated |
| 07:04.05 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: the name change to libtermcap). preserve the name termlib instead of termcap to |
| 07:04.05 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: reduce confusion with the gnu termcap library implementation. these particular |
| 07:04.05 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: sources were originally taken from the traditional vi project, though they have |
| 07:04.05 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: already been patched. |
| 07:09.36 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/libterm.h: |
| 07:09.36 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: initial termlib library from an early original bsd implementation (that predated |
| 07:09.36 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: the name change to libtermcap). preserve the name termlib instead of termcap to |
| 07:09.36 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: reduce confusion with the gnu termcap library implementation. these particular |
| 07:09.36 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: sources were originally taken from the traditional vi project, though they have |
| 07:09.36 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: already been patched. |
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| 13:48.02 | narnia | brlcad, i need to create a map of the various 10303 aps functions/entities to equivalent brl-cad functions. is there a list of brl-cad functions that i would be able to use as a starting point? |
| 13:48.26 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/Makefile.am: add libtermlib header |
| 13:51.09 | brlcad | narnia: there is libwdb, which is the "write-only database" library -- depending on what all needs to be supported, you can create just about any geometry using that fairly simple api (man libwdb) |
| 13:52.59 | brlcad | the more powerful read/write api that the rest of brl-cad actually uses is librt -- everything is in there |
| 13:53.32 | brlcad | there's several documents that cover librt, but probably the easiest is to observe one of the existing converters in the src/conv directory |
| 13:56.00 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/elapsed.sh: |
| 13:56.01 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: add support for an optional --seconds argument that makes the elapsed script |
| 13:56.01 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: simply report the number of total seconds that have elapsed instead of the |
| 13:56.01 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: longer human-readable string. intend to use this feature with the benchmark |
| 13:56.01 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: suite |
| 14:07.45 | *** join/#brlcad polyspin (~butler@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 14:07.50 | Twingy | hey lee |
| 14:08.07 | polyspin | Hey. Bad news dude, I need you help here today. |
| 14:08.17 | Twingy | no problem, I'm on my way |
| 14:08.22 | Twingy | be there in 20 minutes? |
| 14:08.27 | polyspin | We've got issues with the Pro/E install and I need someone to talk to other people |
| 14:08.30 | polyspin | Thanks |
| 14:08.31 | polyspin | Cya? |
| 14:08.41 | Twingy | yep, leaving now, seeya at 10:30 |
| 14:08.48 | polyspin | thx |
| 14:14.21 | narnia | brlcad, ap203 does not have a good concept of solids. everything is more surface orientated. |
| 14:15.05 | narnia | brlcad, ap203 definitely has no concept of constructive solid geometry (csg). |
| 14:34.50 | brlcad | polyspin: i'll be in a few too |
| 14:35.13 | polyspin | great! I could use your help on re-compiling Pro/E |
| 14:35.25 | brlcad | narnia: i'm aware of that.. 214 covers csg |
| 14:35.51 | brlcad | polyspin: you did see my note that cad is back on-line, I hope? |
| 14:42.55 | narnia | brlcad, i looked at most of the /src/conv .c files and so far none give me a warm fuzzy feeling. i think i am blazing a new trail. |
| 14:59.13 | polyspin | narnia: If you are converting brep geometry, you are probably looking at generating "bot" primitives. |
| 14:59.35 | polyspin | Line drawings should come in as NMG primitives |
| 15:07.26 | polyspin | brlcad: yes I saw the note. I've forwarded to others info about Pro/E |
| 15:15.22 | narnia | polyspin, basically a .stp file may have advances brep solids, faceted brep solids, manifold surfaces with topology, wireframe with topology, surfaces and wireframes without topology. |
| 15:17.06 | narnia | polyspin, i am still wading through several .stp files i have to get a handle on mapping them to brl-cad. |
| 15:18.10 | narnia | what do 'bot' and 'nmg' stand for? |
| 15:23.56 | polyspin | Hmmm. Interesting. "Bot" is a "Bag of Triangles" and "NMG" is "Non-manifold geometry" |
| 15:24.23 | polyspin | The NMG object allows you to store topological faceted geometry |
| 15:24.59 | polyspin | The "surfaces without topology" would become a BOT |
| 15:25.10 | polyspin | the wireframes would all be NMG primitives |
| 15:26.07 | polyspin | faceted brep solids should probably be BoTs unless we don't want to triangulate the facets, in which case NMG is appropriate |
| 15:27.11 | polyspin | The only item we would have difficulty with is spline surfaces. While there is support for spline primitives, it is not as complete as the others |
| 15:34.35 | narnia | polyspin, so a b-spline surface with knots may not map easily? |
| 15:36.44 | polyspin | A simle B-spline surface maps. It just doesn't edit as well |
| 15:37.09 | polyspin | Trimmed spline surfaces are harder. I don't think that work was completed in the BRL-CAD library. |
| 15:39.38 | polyspin | I'd be thrilled with a converter that just read the STEP components BRL-CAD could represent |
| 15:40.01 | brlcad | is that an understatement? :) |
| 15:40.38 | polyspin | yes |
| 15:41.16 | brlcad | i am in, btw .. wading through e-mail |
| 15:41.34 | polyspin | Duck under the desk, I'm walking your way. |
| 15:41.46 | brlcad | hehe |
| 15:58.25 | narnia | i be thrilled with a coherent step standard that could be read. ;-) |
| 16:03.14 | polyspin | standard=readable is an amusing concept. I have seen very few that were |
| 16:12.29 | brlcad | narnia: if it feels like you're blazing a new trail, it's because for you you are with respect to knowing brl-cad's interfaces :) |
| 16:13.33 | brlcad | narnia: the g-iges converter is probably the closest to the complexity that you're working with in step and that lives in src/iges instead of conv due to it's complexity |
| 16:13.59 | brlcad | i don't say that so that you use it as a reference, more so that you know in case it is of interest |
| 16:22.09 | *** join/#brlcad ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 16:22.09 | *** mode/#brlcad [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net |
| 17:05.47 | narnia | src/iges is the closest converter. will still be blazing a new trail. |
| 17:07.43 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy_ (~justin@pcp0011643033pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net) |
| 17:26.49 | brlcad | the step converter itself shouldn't need to be nearly as complicated as the iges converter ended up being simply because a majority of the format itself is being parsed by the express library |
| 17:28.49 | narnia | that is true to some extent. i am going to have to 'play' with it to get a good idea. crash and burn time. ;-) |
| 17:30.00 | narnia | it is difficult to type wit a cat sitting on me. |
| 17:31.21 | narnia | i found a song that should be iso 10303 theme song. |
| 17:31.42 | narnia | queen's 'Pain Is So Close To Pleasure' ;-) |
| 17:36.02 | narnia | http://www.lyriczz.com/print.php?songid=6870 |
| 17:46.55 | *** join/#brlcad alryr (~larryr@cpe-66-91-224-213.san.res.rr.com) |
| 17:52.35 | alryr | I have a newbie question. |
| 17:52.38 | alryr | Is there some sort of "text" object? |
| 18:45.52 | *** part/#brlcad alryr (~larryr@cpe-66-91-224-213.san.res.rr.com) |
| 19:12.16 | narnia | just what i need some anti-social person is spamming sourceforge lists. |
| 19:13.25 | narnia | there should be a hunting season on spammers and scammers, or do they fall under the varmit hunting season? |
| 19:14.38 | narnia | a few televised public executions of a few spammers and scammers would sovle a good portion of the spam and scam problems. |
| 19:21.02 | polyspin | Though it was quite nice a few days ago |
| 19:21.35 | Twingy_ | narnia: http://www.rt.cx/~justin/images/electronics_bins.jpg |
| 19:46.44 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/Makefile.am: build termlib if we're configured to build termlib |
| 19:47.38 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (4 files in 4 dirs): s/CURSES/TERMLIB/ we actually don't need CURSES so refer to the library that we really need, termlib/termcap |
| 20:08.12 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: |
| 20:08.12 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: add checks for automatic termlib detection supplanting the need for the user to |
| 20:08.12 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: install a termlib/termcap/curses library so the build should no longer fail for |
| 20:08.12 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: that reason (since it will build it if it's not found). rename the png and |
| 20:08.13 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: regex ac_subst defines while we're at it for consistency. also force tk to on |
| 20:08.13 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: for real.. |
| 20:18.30 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh: (log message trimmed) |
| 20:18.30 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: major reworking of the benchmark to iteratively double the number of rays being |
| 20:18.30 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: fired until the individual test requires takes at least a minimum predetermined |
| 20:18.30 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: amount of wallclock time (currently set to 60 seconds per test). the number of |
| 20:18.30 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: rays is doubled via hypersampling 1+N hypersample rays with jitter disabled. |
| 20:18.30 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: the amount of time may be specified via the TIMEFRAME environment variable. |
| 20:18.33 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: having the longer run time will help the rtfm numbers stabilize better and lets |
| 20:38.04 | narnia | Twingy, what am i suppose to look at? |
| 20:38.57 | Twingy_ | bought a few parts bins last night from sears |
| 20:39.20 | Twingy_ | building an online inventory system for myself, bins are labeled A0 - A9 .. R0 - R9 |
| 20:39.28 | Twingy_ | calling it Migikey :) |
| 20:45.50 | brlcad | narnia: just nod and say "mmhmm, okay" |
| 20:52.18 | narnia | Twingy, you do realize that is the first sign of a 'sick' mind. |
| 20:52.23 | narnia | Twingy, ;-) |
| 20:52.43 | narnia | oh joy freezing rain just in time for the weekend. |
| 20:52.57 | Twingy_ | I gotta go running this crap |
| 20:53.05 | Twingy_ | today is day 48 of 50 |
