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| 02:52.21 | learner | af1n, thanks for the feedback -- actually that tkCanvasBezier is actually a bonefide Tk mod, which is why it looks/acts likes it's part of tk 8.4 |
| 02:53.23 | learner | af1n, the reason is because it is/was a part, the sources were provided via a modified version of libtk -- it's been only recently that I pulled out tkCanvasBezier so that it was even possible to link against a system libtk |
| 02:56.32 | learner | pulling it out, however, didn't change the fact that we need the bezier canvas support that the tk project has still yet to integrate (their tip submission process is painful and seemingly slow/cumbersome and way way down on our priority list). if you look into libtk's sources, you'll see that our tkcanvasbezier is actually like all the other tkcanvas* objects, hence the accessing of internal structures, internal header inclusions, etc. |
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| 04:28.14 | learner | there you is |
| 04:28.17 | learner | pong |
| 04:28.44 | PrezKennedy | arggghh |
| 04:29.13 | PrezKennedy | been poking frantically for days!! :-P |
| 04:29.59 | learner | I've been gone since Wed, offline down in south carolina |
| 04:30.17 | PrezKennedy | ahhh sounds like very hot |
| 04:31.13 | learner | it was great |
| 04:31.21 | learner | lots of sand and sun |
| 04:31.43 | PrezKennedy | does sound like fun |
| 04:32.03 | learner | I'll read your message right before I left, everything you said sounded fine |
| 04:33.49 | PrezKennedy | i forgot what i said :-\ |
| 04:36.41 | PrezKennedy | ill look it up on my laptop later... my friend is over right now |
| 04:36.59 | learner | you'd said something about moving the old site |
| 05:27.21 | *** topic/#brlcad by learner -> http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Release 7.6.0 is now being prepared |
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| 08:40.37 | af1n | learner are you alive? |
| 08:40.51 | af1n | i have problems with include conflict |
| 08:41.14 | af1n | of course tcl.h and friends :) |
| 08:41.56 | af1n | would it be a problem to keep the in seperate dir and include the only if --enable-tcl-build=yes |
| 08:43.35 | af1n | ps: sorry for pushing the seperate build thing |
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| 14:57.59 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@ri02-064.dialin.iskon.hr) |
| 14:58.04 | docelic | 'day |
| 15:13.59 | learner | howdy |
| 15:14.17 | learner | af1n, what sort of conflicts? |
| 15:20.00 | af1n | hmm, realy strange ones... tcl.h was included from brlcad include directory, and it was not compatibile with the rest of includes in my /usr/include, but the problem disappeared once i stoped mangling with --{include,data,.*}dir= i now use only --prefix and everything seams ok |
| 15:20.42 | af1n | i fixed some of the autoconf scripts, they are in bugs section on sourceforge |
| 15:22.23 | af1n | how long will it take for 7.6.0 to be released ? :] |
| 15:28.48 | learner | should happen this week |
| 15:29.34 | learner | we release on a monthly iteration, so at the beginning of every month whatever has stabilized |
| 15:30.06 | learner | hmm.. i didn't get a bug/patch posting notification |
| 15:31.09 | learner | ahh, so I did and there they are |
| 15:33.16 | learner | af1n, i'm not sure what can exactly be done about the internal headers being used by tkcanvasbezier -- could try extracting just the declarations that are being used by it, but I'd gather that to be significant. easy enough to try though. |
| 15:35.15 | learner | the "real answer" is to get someone to push them back up into Tk proper, maybe in time to make 8.6 but that'd be tough |
| 15:42.11 | af1n | learner no problem, everything compiles smoothly now, i guess the problems were related to passing to much --{some}dir= to ./configure, now when i use default dirs everything works ok, even thoug there is version mismatch betwen brlcad tk/tcl and the one in my own system |
| 15:42.43 | learner | k, good to hear |
| 15:42.45 | af1n | the problem a bit hard for me to pin point exacly, i will update you if i find more info |
| 15:42.57 | af1n | the past problem of course :) |
| 15:43.05 | learner | regarding your patch, what was the reason for removing the #ifdef have header checks? |
| 15:43.08 | af1n | but just for curiosity i will check :) |
| 15:43.15 | learner | if they don't exist, it suggests it failed to detect them |
| 15:43.34 | af1n | yes, but anyway if they dont exist the test will fail |
| 15:43.42 | af1n | it won't compile |
| 15:43.43 | learner | not necessarily |
| 15:43.58 | learner | there are some systems where those are not the headers you'd include to get Tcl |
| 15:43.59 | af1n | ok, my mistake |
| 15:44.15 | af1n | sorry |
| 15:44.28 | learner | it's more scaffolding that still needs to be improved upon, it'd probably make more sense if it was extended to the Tcl framework on Mac, for example |
| 15:44.36 | learner | no biggie, just curious |
| 15:46.19 | af1n | anyway, thx for your support, i am posting a working brlcad-7.4.2.ebuild (sort of how to make and install recepe ) to gentoos bugzilla |
| 15:47.09 | learner | excellent, thank you |
| 15:47.26 | learner | there have been a couple others helping getting the ebuild set up |
| 15:47.38 | learner | getting tcl/tk decoupled was one of the hurdles |
| 15:47.44 | learner | among many |
| 15:48.31 | learner | brl-cad's such a large package that goes back to a time where installing into your own root was commonplace yet today only a couple still do (think /usr/X11R6, etc) |
| 15:49.18 | learner | there are still a couple issues, that I suspect will come up at least eventually in the gentoo build that will have to be worked out yet |
| 15:49.28 | learner | like what happens when there is a library name conflict |
| 15:49.36 | af1n | oh, good you said that... i was thinking about where to place brlcad |
| 15:49.58 | af1n | i see that the official policy from the binary tarball is to put everything in /usr/brlcad |
| 15:50.15 | learner | traditionally, brl-cad *wants* to be installed into /usr/brlcad -- fixes have been made relatively recently so that places like /usr and /usr/local work just as well |
| 15:50.29 | learner | right |
| 15:50.49 | learner | that of course doesn't bode too well with the packaging distributions like gentoo and debian in particular |
| 15:51.03 | learner | who only exempt x11 these days |
| 15:51.41 | af1n | in gentoo we have large packages like kde or qt in /usr/packagename |
| 15:51.43 | learner | I've taken care of colliding resources, with everything going to prefix/share/brlcad/version now |
| 15:52.11 | af1n | yes i saw it, its great, we can now have multiple brlcad versions installed the same time |
| 15:52.18 | learner | sort of |
| 15:52.38 | docelic | is there a document describing how the ARL came to idea of gpl-ing ? |
| 15:52.39 | learner | the libraries and binaries still go to prefix/bin and prefix/lib without any regard to what's there |
| 15:53.36 | learner | I've yet to write that document.. :) but it is on my todo list |
| 15:53.55 | af1n | learner are you one person BRLCAD team? :] |
| 15:54.13 | learner | it's pretty interesting actually, took about five years of constant effort |
| 15:54.34 | learner | af1n, heh, no |
| 15:54.56 | af1n | but it looks like you are now the main architect :) |
| 15:55.12 | learner | that would be a fair assessment |
| 15:56.16 | learner | i've been leading the development for several years now, in particular on the open source side where I've been able to focus more effort |
| 15:57.00 | learner | there are others that work on the code, though, and now that it's open source I'm looking to get more and more people involved |
| 15:57.55 | learner | we have the potential to escalate the project up to a huge level of visibility with the right kind of involvement, and next year should be pretty exciting with all of the plans in place |
| 16:00.38 | learner | eek, sorry! spelled it wrong |
| 16:00.45 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: slolina points out a bug in the iwidgets test, the package name is capitalized (sf patch 1281175) |
| 16:01.19 | docelic | That's nice |
| 16:05.56 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: Slonina (spell it right this time) provides a fix for the iwidgets test. a null result means failure (sf patch 1281175) |
| 16:06.42 | learner | probably not the best time to test enabling Tk with the release right around the corner |
| 16:07.20 | learner | it's been specifically disabled with that build_brlcad_tk=yes on purpose for a couple reasons (though should all be fixed now, but weren't a month ago) |
| 16:08.02 | af1n | and i was wondering where this artefact came from :), lol |
| 16:09.04 | learner | it was related to a bunch of relocation issues -- if you built brl-cad to install in /usr/brlcad, yet actually installed it in /usr/local or somewhere else there were a variety of relocation problems |
| 16:09.58 | learner | that should all be working now with the exception of maybe one issue that hasn't been tested in a while |
| 16:10.45 | learner | you found that you needed to include tcl.h before tk.h for tk's test? it shouldn't have been required (and ideally the test should stay decoupled if possible) |
| 16:11.08 | af1n | learner if i can help, i will be glad to do so, i can do some testing, but my unix skills are limited ( its the first time i am in someones changelog ) |
| 16:11.21 | af1n | ok, one moment i will check it |
| 16:11.40 | learner | of course you can help :) |
| 16:12.36 | learner | as I mentioned, I'm looking for some good folks to become a part of the dev team too, so any level of involvement is appreciated ;) |
| 16:13.30 | learner | ahh you know what.. about the tcl.h header -- it is require, I forgot that the test had changed to actually invoke the tcl interpreter |
| 16:13.43 | learner | thanks for pointing it out :) |
| 16:14.01 | af1n | glad i could be useful :) |
| 16:14.45 | af1n | and what are the current points on the TODO list? |
| 16:14.56 | af1n | ok, will check the CVS :) |
| 16:15.11 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: and Slonina conveniently also notices that the Tk test is now using the tcl interpreter, and thus needs the tcl header (sf patch 1281175) |
| 16:15.37 | docelic | Is the person who announced brlcad ITP (intention to package) for Debian GNU in coordination with you? |
| 16:16.09 | docelic | supposedly it's Balbir Thomas <thomas.1037@osu.edu> |
| 16:17.37 | learner | he's one of two others that have worked on the ebuild on and off |
| 16:18.10 | learner | i haven't seen him in a while |
| 16:18.28 | docelic | The ITP is from January 2005, and no packages are in the archive yet |
| 16:19.27 | learner | yeah, I wouldn't hold my breath :) |
| 16:19.32 | learner | though he has been involved since |
| 16:20.47 | af1n | learner if you need someone to package brlcad for debian i can volunteer, i was using debian 4 years ago, before i switched to gentoo, but i don't want to arrange in the official contats with Debian comunity |
| 16:21.09 | af1n | arrange = engage, sorry |
| 16:21.21 | docelic | af1n, that doesn't really make you an official packager :) |
| 16:21.29 | docelic | s/official/ideal/ |
| 16:21.59 | af1n | nop, i am neither official packager for gentoo :) |
| 16:23.19 | learner | that is how one gets started, though :) |
| 16:26.35 | af1n | that would be an honour for me, but these bugs are so small... |
| 16:27.14 | learner | don't belittle the one-line bug fixes |
| 16:27.27 | learner | sometimes those are the hardest to find |
| 16:28.16 | af1n | hope i find some more :], but i didn't look for these ones, they came to me :) |
| 16:28.38 | learner | I'm sure you'll find more if you look hard enough, and if you don't I have a nice long list of them :) |
| 16:28.52 | af1n | :) |
| 16:28.54 | af1n | ok |
| 16:30.43 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: configuration build fixes for Tk/Iwidgets (sf patch 1281175) provided by Michal Slonina |
| 16:31.24 | learner | it also takes little effort to give credit where credit is due no matter now small the contribution |
| 16:38.00 | af1n | learner i read the todo, and there are some little things i could fix, thx for giving me opportunity to learn some coding, excpect very small patches in two weeks ( i have 2 failed exams to pass yet, so not much time now ) |
| 16:38.27 | af1n | and thx for your support |
| 16:39.58 | docelic | dont play with the exams, they're a priority :) |
| 16:46.55 | af1n | i got red light from gentoo science team about puting brlcad into /usr/brlcad, it has to comply to FHS ( strange they didn't respect FHS in the past ) |
| 16:53.51 | learner | af1n, not too unexpected |
| 16:58.45 | learner | the closest equivalent in the fhs structure would probably be /opt/brlcad but I'm not too fond of that idea myself |
| 17:01.43 | learner | just means that more work is needed to have a /usr/lib/brlcad or somesuch to protect the libraries from conflicting |
| 17:22.39 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: the default is still to build tk even if detected, so no sense in forcing the build on regardless of the configure argument. it's close to working now if it's not already. |
| 19:01.25 | af1n | --prefix=/usr --host=i686-pc-linux-gnu --mandir=/usr/share/man --infodir=/usr/share/info --datadir=/usr/share --sysconfdir=/etc --localstatedir=/var/lib |
| 19:01.42 | af1n | learner i have a question regarding the placement of files, u see gentoo has a special command called econf in ebuilds which calls ./configure with the options given above |
| 19:02.32 | af1n | it works for most packages, but brlcad behaviour seams strange |
| 19:04.15 | af1n | i put the list of files i get after installing brlcad on: |
| 19:04.19 | af1n | http://behemot.ath.cx/brlcad/ls-lr.txt |
| 19:04.35 | af1n | and the config.log: |
| 19:05.05 | af1n | http://behemot.ath.cx/brlcad/config.log |
| 19:06.26 | af1n | most packages understand datadir as the location where they can create their own directory |
| 19:07.00 | af1n | ( from what i have observed, but i am total lame and can be wrong ) |
| 19:07.27 | brlcad | heh, you're just full of self-confidence :) |
| 19:08.17 | brlcad | hmm |
| 19:08.41 | brlcad | there are several things I see wrong in that install with those options |
| 19:08.59 | brlcad | like the usr/include/brlcad symbolic link |
| 19:09.02 | af1n | but they work for emacs and for wine |
| 19:09.18 | af1n | sorry, the symbolic link is created in the script by me |
| 19:09.26 | af1n | one moment |
| 19:10.35 | brlcad | datadir of /usr/share is normal? |
| 19:10.45 | brlcad | i.e. those are the defaults? |
| 19:11.41 | af1n | yes |
| 19:11.57 | af1n | and for most packages they are ok |
| 19:12.26 | brlcad | most packages don't have nearly as many components |
| 19:12.38 | af1n | http://behemot.ath.cx/brlcad/brlcad-7.4.2.ebuild |
| 19:12.47 | brlcad | still, point is well taken and there is fixin' needed |
| 19:15.13 | af1n | if test "x$datadir" = "x\${prefix}/share" ; then |
| 19:15.14 | af1n | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:15.14 | af1n | else |
| 19:15.14 | af1n | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:15.14 | af1n | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:15.14 | af1n | fi |
| 19:15.20 | af1n | from configure.ac |
| 19:15.38 | brlcad | yes |
| 19:15.43 | af1n | it looks like there is some logic in configure.ac that should do it |
| 19:15.59 | af1n | but somehow it works not like expected |
| 19:16.47 | af1n | ok, i will try to fix it, you can accept the patch then if u like it :] |
| 19:16.55 | brlcad | speaking of FHS guidelines, using a datadir of /usr/share by default breaks those guidelines without modifying datadir further |
| 19:17.52 | af1n | but the packages that use --datadir=/usr/share normaly put their files in /usr/share/packagename/ |
| 19:18.20 | af1n | ok i will dig autoconf doc and fhs |
| 19:18.45 | brlcad | the problem I have with that is that's not what "datadir" means |
| 19:18.56 | brlcad | not that it can't be fixed to do that the same here |
| 19:20.46 | brlcad | similar as is done for a default datadir value |
| 19:22.42 | brlcad | hmm.. configure should have reached the first case now that I think of it .. prefix is /usr, datadir is /usr/share == prefix/share |
| 19:22.57 | af1n | yes, that's the point |
| 19:23.26 | brlcad | that was? :) |
| 19:23.33 | brlcad | oops, then :) |
| 19:24.47 | brlcad | try removing the \ |
| 19:26.31 | brlcad | or print the quoted value .. something awry |
| 19:27.56 | af1n | autoconfing... :) |
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| 19:31.36 | af1n | smoooth :) |
| 19:31.47 | af1n | "another one bites the dust" |
| 19:32.41 | af1n | those are worst kinds of bugs, they lurk in the depths :) |
| 19:53.15 | brlcad | ahh, now I think I see what/why it was that way |
| 19:53.33 | af1n | can you share your thoughts? |
| 19:53.35 | brlcad | the default data dir really is '${prefix}' unexpanded |
| 19:54.04 | brlcad | '${prefix}/share' |
| 19:56.07 | af1n | hmm, '${prefix}' unexpanded? what do you mean? |
| 19:56.25 | af1n | one moment i have to look in .ac |
| 19:57.00 | brlcad | that the value of the datadir variable is actually '${prefix}/share', not '/usr/share' for example |
| 19:57.04 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: support systems that provide a prefix and datadir (e.g. /usr and /usr/share respectively) |
| 20:00.46 | af1n | but still even when doing ./configure without any --.* options the past behaviour was broken |
| 20:01.00 | brlcad | how so? |
| 20:01.24 | brlcad | without any options, data dir is '${prefix}/share' so it matches the first if case |
| 20:01.40 | af1n | ok now i see it :) |
| 20:01.44 | brlcad | and installs into prefix/share/brlcad/version |
| 20:03.33 | af1n | such fast thinkig comes mainly from expiriance or IQ? becouse i don't know if i should continue my career in CS :] |
| 20:03.48 | brlcad | heh |
| 20:03.58 | brlcad | continue :) |
| 20:04.10 | af1n | most of u guys are 300% faster in spoting the problems than I |
| 20:04.33 | af1n | sometimes i even dont have time to type vi :) |
| 20:05.58 | brlcad | just give it time, getting involved in a code that you know and work with intimately and working with others can help a lot |
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