| 01:21.17 | *** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@pcp0011474399pcs.chrchv01.md.comcast.net) |
| 04:36.58 | pra5ad | ``Erik, |
| 04:37.50 | pra5ad | am i appending opengl.m4 to acinclude.m4? |
| 04:38.03 | pra5ad | i don't want external dependancies |
| 04:38.20 | pra5ad | or is there a way to #include files in acinclude |
| 04:40.50 | pra5ad | opengl.m4 doesn't add -lGLU || -lglu32 |
| 12:23.33 | *** join/#brlcad hosk (n=ank@ns1.yellowestpages.com) |
| 14:14.05 | ``Erik | put opengl.m4 in your own m4/ directory and aclocal -I m4, and no, it doesn't do glu, glu isn't opengl o.O |
| 16:52.34 | pra5ad | u should make m4s for glu + glut then |
| 16:53.06 | brlcad | where'd the opengl.m4 come from? |
| 16:53.24 | pra5ad | erik's site |
| 16:53.43 | brlcad | erik has a site.. hmm |
| 16:54.26 | pra5ad | http://math.missouristate.edu/~erik |
| 16:56.52 | pra5ad | hmm if i do aclocal -I m4, will autoreconf run that same command later? |
| 16:58.02 | brlcad | nope |
| 16:58.12 | brlcad | autoreconf has it's own option |
| 16:58.23 | brlcad | brl-cad's autogen.sh will autodetect the m4 directory and do the right thing |
| 16:58.34 | brlcad | take a look in there, or just use it |
| 16:59.25 | pra5ad | autogen.sh is explicitly called? |
| 16:59.42 | brlcad | hmm? |
| 17:00.01 | brlcad | you run it instead of aclocal/autoreconf/whatever .. it does all the steps for you |
| 17:00.12 | brlcad | ./autogen.sh then on to ./configure |
| 17:00.20 | pra5ad | arr |
| 17:00.26 | pra5ad | ok |
| 17:01.40 | brlcad | or just run it once with -v and it'll tell you the autoreconf steps |
| 17:01.51 | brlcad | (-v is verbose) |
| 17:04.02 | brlcad | so which project uses the opengl.m4? |
| 17:04.07 | brlcad | glpong? |
| 17:04.15 | brlcad | vp? |
| 17:08.50 | pra5ad | gamem4 |
| 17:10.09 | brlcad | thx |
| 17:13.47 | brlcad | heh |
| 17:13.48 | brlcad | GLXEXTRALIBSHIT |
| 17:14.42 | brlcad | those sources are like pg-13 :) |
| 17:17.23 | pra5ad | heh |
| 17:18.33 | brlcad | "windows is fucking retarded. ..." |
| 17:18.50 | AchiestDragon | :) whats new |
| 17:19.35 | pra5ad | i guess i change all the gl references to glu or glut equivalent to create their own m4s |
| 17:20.22 | brlcad | not really, though that would be a start |
| 17:20.36 | brlcad | glu requires gl itself, but not necessarily -lGL |
| 17:20.47 | pra5ad | argh |
| 17:21.04 | pra5ad | i should just modify opengl.m4 to my own reqs |
| 17:21.35 | brlcad | might be in -lglu32 or -lGLU or maybe even in -lGL |
| 17:21.45 | brlcad | or -framework OpenGL, etc |
| 17:23.11 | brlcad | pull up the configure.ac's from several cross-platform opengl games, you'll get the picture |
| 17:23.39 | brlcad | bz has a fair bit of .ac/.m4 code dedicated to gl detection for example |
| 17:23.52 | pra5ad | it's lgpl right? |
| 17:24.33 | pra5ad | is there a store nearby that sells atx cases? |
| 17:25.26 | brlcad | bz's isn't neatly put into an m4 for ogl, it's mixed between sdl checks and lots of ogl checks in .ac |
| 17:26.40 | pra5ad | i already have sdl.m4.. hmm |
| 17:28.43 | pra5ad | libsdl faq - "If you are using autoconf and automake for your project, you can copy the contents of 'sdl.m4' into your acinclude.m4 file, and then add the following to your configure.in file:" |
| 17:30.12 | brlcad | yes, and? |
| 17:30.33 | pra5ad | just saying =) |
| 17:32.18 | brlcad | it's more easy to just use the sdl.m4 as is, but "how" is a bit much to put into a faq |
| 19:51.33 | *** join/#brlcad mvenkate (n=mvenkate@l-lnx003.divms.uiowa.edu) |
| 21:42.11 | ``Erik | aslo |
| 21:57.40 | *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu) |
| 22:46.31 | *** join/#brlcad ircleuser (n=gypigmt@24-231-207-89.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com) |
| 22:47.16 | ircleuser | hello everybody |
| 22:49.19 | brlcad | howdy! |
| 22:49.30 | ircleuser | i am fine |
| 22:49.39 | ircleuser | how abt you? |
| 22:49.40 | brlcad | glad to hear it |
| 22:49.45 | brlcad | peachy |
| 22:49.52 | ircleuser | good! |
| 22:50.59 | ircleuser | Are you a senior developer ? |
| 22:52.54 | ircleuser | u there? |
| 22:52.55 | brlcad | you could say that |
| 22:54.13 | ircleuser | I just found this program on sourceforge.net. I think its a very interesting project and i d really like to contribute to it |
| 22:54.13 | brlcad | not sure there's another dev that understands as much of the code at this point |
| 22:54.37 | ircleuser | Oh I see. |
| 22:54.43 | brlcad | ircleuser: glad to hear it, we're always interested in folks joining in |
| 22:55.03 | brlcad | we're not short on ideas or work |
| 22:55.09 | brlcad | we're short on devs and time ;) |
| 22:55.28 | ircleuser | Oh I see. |
| 22:55.55 | brlcad | not short in a bad way, but there's lots of work and ideas and only so many people ;) |
| 22:56.01 | ircleuser | I have software development experience of ~2 yrs |
| 22:56.14 | ircleuser | may be i could help |
| 22:56.16 | brlcad | excellent |
| 22:56.18 | brlcad | sure |
| 22:56.38 | brlcad | have anything in particular in mind? ahve you used the package at all? |
| 22:56.42 | ircleuser | But i need some help initially |
| 22:56.47 | brlcad | understandably |
| 22:57.12 | ircleuser | I just could install it |
| 22:57.18 | brlcad | the best place to start is the HACKING file in the source distribution, I'd start with a CVS checkout and go from there |
| 22:57.20 | ircleuser | after a lot of trouble |
| 22:57.42 | ircleuser | i did CVS checkout and compiled it. |
| 22:58.21 | ircleuser | I come from windows platform background..and I currently own a ibook |
| 22:59.16 | brlcad | know of anything you're interested in working on in particular? |
| 22:59.24 | ircleuser | I want to set up development environment on my ibook. but not exactly sure how to do that |
| 22:59.42 | ircleuser | you mean a particular module |
| 22:59.55 | brlcad | build system support, bug squishing, modeler improvements |
| 23:00.09 | brlcad | setting up on your ibook for development shouldn't be too hard at all |
| 23:00.28 | brlcad | os x is one of the primary supported platforms |
| 23:01.37 | ircleuser | As long as it is coding, it does not matter if if its build system support or bug squishing |
| 23:02.26 | ircleuser | Ok. CanI use Xcode Ide to debug the source code? |
| 23:03.10 | ircleuser | this might look like stupid questions to you but I have no dev experience on non-windows platform. |
| 23:03.21 | brlcad | not a problem |
| 23:03.27 | ircleuser | I am assuming it wouldn't be drastically different |
| 23:03.34 | brlcad | you can use xcode if you like, but there's not an xcode project any longer |
| 23:04.02 | brlcad | i could probably make one pretty easily if that's what you want to work with |
| 23:04.13 | brlcad | one that invokes the unix build environment, though |
| 23:04.20 | ircleuser | Oh that would be great. |
| 23:04.48 | brlcad | that's the biggest difference -- the build system is the 'gnu build system' using autoconf/automake/libtool |
| 23:05.15 | brlcad | there is a main configure.ac file and Makefile.am's spread out throughout the project |
| 23:05.33 | brlcad | that describe how to build, what to build, etc |
| 23:06.04 | ircleuser | Oh I see. |
| 23:06.36 | ircleuser | so do you use a gui based compiler? |
| 23:06.49 | brlcad | so you could use xcode to see and edit the sources, but the build system would still be the gnu build system |
| 23:07.04 | ircleuser | ok. |
| 23:07.14 | brlcad | i have from time to time, but I prefer Emacs for just about everything these days |
| 23:07.28 | brlcad | some other's prefer their own editors |
| 23:07.28 | ircleuser | Oh ok. |
| 23:08.47 | ircleuser | on a higher level, can you say how I can do a build? I have vim editor |
| 23:10.36 | brlcad | sure |
| 23:10.45 | brlcad | from a checkout, or source distribution? |
| 23:11.26 | brlcad | vim won't do the compiling, that's all done through commands on the command-line (though you can issue the commands from inside vim) |
| 23:11.30 | ircleuser | checkout..(does it mean the source code check out on to my system?) |
| 23:11.46 | ircleuser | ok |
| 23:11.52 | brlcad | it means whether you pulled the sources from cvs or whether you downloaded a source tarball |
| 23:12.05 | ircleuser | sources from cvs |
| 23:12.41 | ircleuser | please |
| 23:12.42 | brlcad | okay, so then to build |
| 23:12.47 | brlcad | ./autogen.sh |
| 23:12.48 | brlcad | ./configure |
| 23:12.51 | brlcad | make |
| 23:13.22 | brlcad | about 30-40 minutes later on an ibook, you should have a full compile |
| 23:14.17 | ircleuser | ok. How about debugging? say if I want to edit code , set breakpoints etc.. |
| 23:18.21 | brlcad | gdb is the gnu debugger |
| 23:18.44 | brlcad | you edit with an editor (vim for example), debug with a debugger (gdb) |
| 23:19.06 | brlcad | xcode integrates that seeing how it's an IDE, but even it just invokes gdb |
| 23:19.37 | ircleuser | ok. cool |
| 23:20.47 | ircleuser | I will try to familiarise with the package |
| 23:21.10 | ircleuser | first and then try to see how the code works |
| 23:22.06 | ircleuser | I did work with Unigraphics. |
| 23:22.09 | brlcad | the thing to keep in mind, if it's not obvious, is that it's a big package ;) |
| 23:22.22 | ircleuser | :-) |
| 23:22.28 | brlcad | there are lots of applications included |
| 23:22.50 | ircleuser | ok. |
| 23:22.50 | brlcad | with various programming styles, and various goals |
| 23:23.02 | ircleuser | oic |
| 23:23.12 | ircleuser | and is there documentation |
| 23:23.15 | ircleuser | ? |
| 23:23.40 | brlcad | try not to let it overwhelm, best to focus on something you want/need and work on improving that area and expanding your familiarity bit by bit |
| 23:23.54 | brlcad | otherwise, it will become very daunting very quickly |
| 23:23.56 | ircleuser | Ok. |
| 23:24.02 | brlcad | yes, there are quite a bit of docs |
| 23:24.23 | brlcad | HACKING file is really a good place to start, as is the first few docs on the website |
| 23:24.43 | ircleuser | ok. cool |
| 23:25.16 | ircleuser | so this packages primary purpose was to do ballistics analysis? |
| 23:26.05 | brlcad | modeling for ballistic analysis |
| 23:26.26 | brlcad | brl-cad doesn't actually perform the ballistic analysis itself, but it's used to make the models of tanks, buildings, etc |
| 23:26.47 | ircleuser | Oh ok. |
| 23:26.49 | brlcad | it's also got tools for raytracing, signal analysis (thermal signatures, etc) |
| 23:27.00 | ircleuser | cool. |
| 23:27.14 | brlcad | there's also a lot of geometry converters |
| 23:27.22 | brlcad | including a unigraphics converter |
| 23:27.38 | ircleuser | good |
| 23:27.44 | brlcad | also iges, pro/e, dxf, etc |
| 23:28.00 | brlcad | all with their plus's and minus's that could be improved upon |
| 23:28.07 | ircleuser | oh i see. |
| 23:28.21 | brlcad | there's always room for improvement ;) |
| 23:28.47 | ircleuser | yes sure. Which companies / research labs use this package? |
| 23:29.03 | brlcad | heh |
| 23:29.48 | brlcad | quite a few, varies over the years -- but all three main military labs use it as it's the primary DoD modeler for ballistic analysis which army, air force, and navy all do |
| 23:30.18 | ircleuser | wow. thats interesting ! |
| 23:30.43 | brlcad | since it's gone open source, it's a little harder to keep track of exactly who other than paying attention to the names and e-mails of people asking questions on the mailing lists and bulletin boards |
| 23:30.58 | ircleuser | true. |
| 23:31.57 | brlcad | there's over 2k downloads sustained at this point, and we haven't even put up the windows binary yet |
| 23:32.08 | brlcad | (per month) |
| 23:32.22 | ircleuser | great! |
| 23:32.39 | ircleuser | when did this go open source? |
| 23:32.58 | brlcad | if you wanted, there are windows build files for studio -- though they will ultimately be moving towards the gnu build system under msys or mingw as well probably too |
| 23:33.37 | brlcad | it went open source on Dec 23, announced mid January or so |
| 23:34.02 | ircleuser | less than a year |
| 23:34.35 | brlcad | we're just about to make the 11th iteration release next week |
| 23:34.55 | ircleuser | any major additions? |
| 23:35.03 | brlcad | from the open source side? |
| 23:35.13 | ircleuser | yes |
| 23:35.44 | brlcad | depends what you consider major, but I'd probably say "no" if you count out everyone that wasn't already a dev |
| 23:36.02 | brlcad | so there's definitely room to shine ;) |
| 23:36.12 | ircleuser | :-) |
| 23:36.16 | brlcad | there are a couple guys working on what I'd consider major features |
| 23:36.33 | brlcad | but they're not done yet |
| 23:37.48 | ircleuser | ok. do you provide direction for the building effort? or is it individual's idea? |
| 23:38.00 | ircleuser | i |
| 23:38.01 | brlcad | one guy made great progress on a step converter, which would have been major major, but has been dealing with personal issues at home |
| 23:38.27 | ircleuser | oh thats sad |
| 23:38.35 | brlcad | you can go either way -- I'd rather leave it up to what interests you to be honest |
| 23:38.58 | ircleuser | oh ok |
| 23:39.19 | brlcad | there are a few parts of the code that necessarily are more tightly watched than others, like changing the format of the .g database files or changing the behavior of the ray-tracer |
| 23:39.34 | brlcad | but even those can be changed if it's done carefully |
| 23:40.02 | brlcad | if you're looking for "something to do" I can certainly help push you in directions too or try to seed you with some ideas |
| 23:40.05 | ircleuser | oh i see. |
| 23:40.11 | brlcad | help you familiarize yourself with the code, etc |
| 23:40.39 | brlcad | I communicate with a couple devs via e-mail and irc in that manner, explaining code and pointing them in directions |
| 23:40.44 | ircleuser | Yeah that would be great |
| 23:41.40 | ircleuser | well initially i might benefit from some direction because i have never worked on such application |
| 23:41.59 | brlcad | what interests you? |
| 23:42.28 | brlcad | modeling? converters? raytracing? creating models? |
| 23:42.57 | ircleuser | modeling/ray tracing.. |
| 23:43.08 | ircleuser | visual aspects basically.. |
| 23:43.28 | brlcad | you'll probably like the new modeler and can probably help out with that once code is commited |
| 23:43.50 | ircleuser | ok. |
| 23:43.51 | brlcad | it basically provides an integrated IDE over all the brl-cad system tools and libraries |
| 23:44.17 | ircleuser | yes. i just need to brush up my CSG knowledge |
| 23:44.19 | brlcad | which was sort of mged's intent, albeit not a great effort gui-wise |
| 23:44.43 | ircleuser | oh i see |
| 23:45.54 | brlcad | have you used mged yet? |
| 23:45.57 | brlcad | heh |
| 23:46.01 | ircleuser | no |
| 23:46.10 | ircleuser | i just could install it |
| 23:46.20 | brlcad | well, it isn't unigraphics ;-) but it very much does get the job done |
| 23:46.38 | brlcad | and there are even power users that can use it just as efficiently most of the time |
| 23:46.55 | ircleuser | hmm. interesting |
| 23:47.04 | brlcad | i'd compile and install from cvs if you're interested in dev'ing |
| 23:47.33 | brlcad | you'll have a little more learning on just how a unix command line works at the start, but I think you'll eventually appreciate it's flexibility |
| 23:47.43 | brlcad | could be wrong, but most do that learn it |
| 23:48.10 | ircleuser | yes, i am not much familiar with command line |
| 23:48.27 | brlcad | the INSTALL file in the cvs checkout includes instructions that should walk you through/repeat those steps that I mentioned |
| 23:48.49 | brlcad | 'less INSTALL' to read the contents on the command-line |
| 23:49.00 | ircleuser | ok. |
| 23:49.52 | ircleuser | so can you build/debug indivdual module without having to do it all over again? |
| 23:50.08 | brlcad | right |
| 23:50.26 | ircleuser | cool. |
| 23:50.39 | brlcad | if you want to read the install file, it'll open up in textedit too of course |
| 23:50.53 | ircleuser | yes i read that already. |
| 23:51.22 | ircleuser | one last question |
| 23:52.02 | ircleuser | on my ibook, to start mged i have to open X11 window and then issue 'mged'command |
| 23:52.35 | ircleuser | so does it start happen automatically if I debug it? |
| 23:53.02 | ircleuser | (this sounds dumb to me too..but i had to ask :-)) |
| 23:53.18 | brlcad | does what start to happen automatically? |
| 23:53.48 | brlcad | gdb debugging is an exercise/simple tutorial in itself |
| 23:54.38 | ircleuser | ok..i mean does the application start if there are no breakpoints ? |
| 23:54.48 | ircleuser | or errors? |
| 23:54.55 | brlcad | it starts when you tell it to start only |
| 23:55.14 | brlcad | gdb mged |
| 23:55.26 | brlcad | .. some output, gdb initializes .. |
| 23:55.33 | brlcad | you are given a gdb prompt |
| 23:55.54 | brlcad | at which point you can type "help" or "start" or "breakpoint file.c:123" etc |
| 23:56.01 | ircleuser | oh ok. |
| 23:56.23 | brlcad | i'll see if I can whip up the xcode project for you, since that wraps it all in the xcode ide ;) |
| 23:56.49 | ircleuser | ok i will read the gdb tutorial. |
| 23:57.35 | ircleuser | Yes, it would be lot useful if I have a Xcode project |
| 23:57.40 | brlcad | it's the defacto debugger next to studio's on windows, useful to learn regardless |
| 23:58.38 | ircleuser | sure. well i am guessing it won't take much effort to learn gdb |
| 23:59.02 | brlcad | nah, it's pretty intuitive even for a command-line interface |
| 23:59.18 | brlcad | "next" (or "n" for short) for single-stepping |
| 23:59.43 | brlcad | "backtrace" or "bt" to see the backtrace call stack |