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| 02:11.52 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=Who@bas3-sudbury98-1168051727.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 02:12.27 | IriX64 | will gentoo install on a vmware virtual machine? |
| 02:15.54 | IriX64 | ? :) |
| 02:16.44 | Maloeran | What about installing Gentoo for real? :) |
| 02:17.03 | IriX64 | blows away my existing installation. |
| 02:17.17 | Maloeran | Doesn't seem a good idea to run an OS relying that much on compilation in an emulator |
| 02:17.21 | Maloeran | Just resize it |
| 02:17.36 | IriX64 | ? |
| 02:17.57 | Twingy | I use fbsd emulator for all my robotics dev work |
| 02:18.03 | Twingy | fbsd in parallels |
| 02:18.10 | IriX64 | ? |
| 02:18.14 | Twingy | with two displays |
| 02:18.24 | Twingy | fbsd running fullscreen on left, MacOS on right playing itunes |
| 02:18.41 | IriX64 | freebsd? |
| 02:18.47 | Twingy | jah |
| 02:19.31 | Twingy | get a job |
| 02:20.00 | Maloeran | Freebsd is quite free, can't take too much disk space either |
| 02:20.08 | IriX64 | jobs avois me like the plague :) |
| 02:20.18 | IriX64 | avoid too. |
| 02:20.22 | Twingy | once gcam is mature I might try my hand at some supplementary income |
| 02:20.40 | IriX64 | graphics cam? :) |
| 02:20.44 | Maloeran | It won't be open-source then? |
| 02:20.44 | Twingy | gnu |
| 02:20.48 | Twingy | it will be |
| 02:20.53 | IriX64 | heh |
| 02:20.55 | Maloeran | Then you'll sell tech support? |
| 02:21.00 | Twingy | nope |
| 02:21.06 | Maloeran | Volountary donations? |
| 02:21.17 | Twingy | that always helps |
| 02:21.23 | IriX64 | different project? |
| 02:21.29 | IriX64 | = income? |
| 02:21.36 | Twingy | stuff I build with it |
| 02:21.46 | Maloeran | Ah, I see |
| 02:21.56 | Twingy | hopefully out of aluminum |
| 02:22.23 | IriX64 | Twingy, ever hear od steel welding? |
| 02:22.28 | IriX64 | of too. |
| 02:22.48 | Twingy | I weld steel when I need to |
| 02:22.56 | IriX64 | you take the acetlyne bottle and replace it with hydrogen. |
| 02:23.13 | IriX64 | use a steel rod instead of those brazinf rods. |
| 02:23.21 | IriX64 | brazing too. |
| 02:23.24 | Twingy | for what purpose? |
| 02:23.42 | Twingy | you just like jumped off topic |
| 02:23.43 | IriX64 | high temperature welds. |
| 02:23.46 | Twingy | ok, great |
| 02:23.50 | Twingy | now back to aluminum |
| 02:23.52 | Twingy | :) |
| 02:23.56 | IriX64 | heh all right. |
| 02:24.05 | IriX64 | aluminum rods. |
| 02:24.22 | Twingy | next purchase will be a band saw for cleaning up my castings |
| 02:24.36 | Twingy | but not until my solar panels are installed |
| 02:24.37 | IriX64 | grinder does a good job. |
| 02:24.46 | Twingy | grinder is not designed for that |
| 02:25.00 | IriX64 | using appropriate attachments it is. |
| 02:25.27 | Twingy | ok, you can pound a round peg through a square hole, but I prefer the round holes myself |
| 02:25.38 | Twingy | which is why I will be getting a band saw |
| 02:25.55 | IriX64 | wouldnt be a square peg or round hole anymore now would it.? |
| 02:26.02 | Twingy | no |
| 02:26.09 | Twingy | because I'm implying it works |
| 02:26.24 | IriX64 | im dense. act accordingly. |
| 02:26.27 | Twingy | it's just not appropriate |
| 02:26.48 | Twingy | I know you are, I'm trying to compensate |
| 02:27.00 | Twingy | and remain benevolent |
| 02:27.05 | IriX64 | don't over compensate though. :) |
| 02:27.27 | IriX64 | gotta see a man about a recurrring leak bbiab. |
| 02:27.53 | Twingy | you should be giving yourself lobotomies |
| 02:28.03 | Twingy | *shouldn't |
| 02:28.17 | Twingy | but apparently you think otherwise |
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| 11:16.33 | ``Erik | band saw? for flash? or for the pour channel? |
| 11:44.33 | archivist | ally doesnt grind well as it fills the grinding wheel |
| 11:45.27 | archivist | I wear out a dremel a year |
| 12:56.14 | ``Erik | yeah... but aluminum is very fileable |
| 12:56.20 | ``Erik | and files can be cleaned with a wire brush |
| 12:56.22 | ``Erik | *shrug* |
| 12:56.57 | ``Erik | up around brass and harder, a grinding wheel is awesome, though |
| 12:57.05 | archivist | hehe depends on the copper content pure is sticky as hell |
| 12:57.24 | ``Erik | that'ts why I said brass, not copper |
| 12:57.26 | ``Erik | O:-) |
| 12:57.37 | archivist | angle grinder heaven |
| 12:57.52 | ``Erik | part of me misses the days of working in a metal shop |
| 12:58.03 | ``Erik | then I remember how much I hate physical labor ;) |
| 12:58.13 | archivist | as a clockmaker I still get dirty |
| 12:58.30 | ``Erik | cool... maker? mostly repair work on antiques? |
| 12:59.06 | archivist | make parts for new and antque |
| 12:59.32 | ``Erik | and I have absolutely no desire to wear a wristwatch or pocketwatch |
| 12:59.34 | archivist | last job www/archivist.info/pendulum guess the metal |
| 12:59.42 | ``Erik | too many people care too much about time |
| 12:59.53 | ``Erik | forbidden |
| 12:59.54 | ``Erik | 403 |
| 13:00.02 | archivist | hehe replace / with . |
| 13:00.14 | ``Erik | hurrr |
| 13:00.35 | archivist | www.archivist.info/pendulum |
| 13:01.13 | ``Erik | hmmmmm, looks too hard to be platinum? |
| 13:01.23 | archivist | not hard |
| 13:01.37 | ``Erik | and the surface looks too shiney to be aluminum |
| 13:01.46 | ``Erik | but the old surface is too matte to be a steel |
| 13:01.46 | archivist | never usually seen shiny |
| 13:01.59 | ``Erik | if I spit on it, would it explod? |
| 13:02.00 | ``Erik | :D |
| 13:02.07 | archivist | cast iron |
| 13:02.12 | ``Erik | really? |
| 13:02.17 | ``Erik | that's an awful clean piece of stock |
| 13:02.35 | archivist | yup continously cast |
| 13:02.50 | ``Erik | full size (and old, well abused) lathe, I see |
| 13:03.19 | archivist | 1956 worn out |
| 13:03.23 | ``Erik | the bevel cut... was that ground and polished? or is that from the bit? |
| 13:03.31 | ``Erik | cuz it's insanely smooth |
| 13:04.02 | archivist | turned 1 thou feed and then wet and dry then polich |
| 13:04.23 | ``Erik | ok, so it's been polished, not a straight bit cut :) hehehe |
| 13:04.54 | ``Erik | and I seeeee.... an irc client, it looks like... and firefox... cooking? pastebin... O:-) |
| 13:05.08 | ``Erik | btw, mysql sucks, postgresql++ |
| 13:05.13 | ``Erik | imho |
| 13:05.13 | Maloeran | So you cut this kind of stuff if your garage as well, like Justin? :) Building a pendulum? |
| 13:05.26 | archivist | its my day job |
| 13:05.49 | ``Erik | all my experience was during a highschool "metal shop" class |
| 13:05.50 | ``Erik | heh |
| 13:06.04 | ``Erik | so I got a good breadth, but not a lot of narrow experience |
| 13:06.30 | ``Erik | just 'nuff that I know when to pick what machine, and probably won't lose too many fingers, heh |
| 13:06.52 | archivist | its the boss here that machines his fingers not me |
| 13:07.02 | ``Erik | well |
| 13:07.21 | ``Erik | bosses in general are incompetent in attempting the tasks their "subordinates" do |
| 13:07.42 | archivist | I had to take him to hospital after he gear cut his finger |
| 13:07.54 | Maloeran | Ouch. |
| 13:08.01 | ``Erik | I code for a living, my supervisor has a masters in CS, but couldn't code her way out of a wet paper sack |
| 13:08.06 | ``Erik | just a cut? |
| 13:08.10 | archivist | .8 module index finger |
| 13:08.27 | ``Erik | I took a good chunk of one off with twinkies r/c plane, got an ambulance trip, they sewed it on, but it ain't quite right :/ |
| 13:08.48 | Maloeran | Erik, Wendy really has a master in CS? |
| 13:09.01 | ``Erik | I think so |
| 13:09.04 | ``Erik | heh |
| 13:09.16 | Maloeran | Now I really have no esteem left for the formal educational system |
| 13:09.19 | ``Erik | dixie has a doctorate in cs... and doesn't know the difference between a programming language and a library |
| 13:09.38 | ``Erik | mike, however, has a doctorate in cs, and is pretty damn brilliant |
| 13:09.56 | Maloeran | Survice would like me to get a degree for some reason, possibly so they can ask more from the ARL |
| 13:10.12 | ``Erik | BUT, in the "real world", it's more or less given that the more formal education you've had,t he more you know... |
| 13:10.39 | ``Erik | if I were to dispute something dixie said, 95% of the 'real world' would tell me to sod off, because I just have a bs, not a phd |
| 13:10.42 | ``Erik | *shrug* |
| 13:11.02 | ``Erik | and people without a bs are only useful for flipping burgers, according to 95% of the industry |
| 13:11.04 | ``Erik | :) |
| 13:11.14 | archivist | knowing how to use a library is better than a degree sometimes |
| 13:11.24 | ``Erik | (it's just a hoop to jump through, but *shrug* if you wanna be heard...) |
| 13:11.41 | Maloeran | Aw Erik :), I suppose I better inform Survice about these new career plans |
| 13:12.08 | ``Erik | at least with undergrad degrees, you DO get a good breadth of information that focused self-education would completely fail at |
| 13:12.44 | ``Erik | I thought I knew it all and was a superguru until I got to the upper level undergrad program ;0 |
| 13:13.56 | Maloeran | Useful information, or perhaps just knowing by heart the O notation for all "standard" common algorithms? |
| 13:14.18 | ``Erik | meh, asymptotic notation is a minor player |
| 13:14.40 | ``Erik | grocking the theoretical, and being forced to use a wide range of languages from a wide range of paradigm on a wide range of tasks was interesting |
| 13:15.14 | ``Erik | I still look up and reread some of the classic simple 'problems' to keep my mind semi-limber... |
| 13:15.26 | ``Erik | <-- points at the halting problem in a safari tab :) |
| 13:16.06 | ``Erik | and that's exactly why undergrad cs would benefit you. |
| 13:16.08 | ``Erik | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halting_problem |
| 13:16.32 | Maloeran | Oh, that |
| 13:16.52 | Maloeran | Safari encountered such a situation? :) That's unexpected |
| 13:16.58 | ``Erik | no, hah |
| 13:17.01 | ``Erik | the webpage is open in safari |
| 13:17.40 | ``Erik | fundamental computer science... the theoretical stuff... gets me off :D |
| 13:17.58 | ``Erik | dfa's, turing machines, p/np... |
| 13:18.04 | ``Erik | underappreciated. |
| 13:18.16 | ``Erik | <-- points at his brainfuck interpreter and compiler... |
| 13:18.25 | ``Erik | that's where academic optimization research should happen |
| 13:18.26 | ``Erik | not c |
| 13:19.08 | Maloeran | It's often possible when faced with a though, slow or impratical problem... to just change the problem itself |
| 13:19.19 | ``Erik | erm... |
| 13:19.20 | ``Erik | dur |
| 13:19.26 | ``Erik | that's a core premise of p/np |
| 13:19.50 | Maloeran | For having read so many papers on ray-tracing, it's something a lot of people seem to forget |
| 13:20.14 | ``Erik | just cuz 99.999% of people misapply the taught computer sciences does not mean that formal cs is useless, dude |
| 13:20.34 | Maloeran | *nods* Right ;) |
| 13:20.50 | ``Erik | seriously, you're smart enough to grok what is said and benefit from it, opposed to the normal 'copy what thte prof says and regurgitate to pass the class' bs |
| 13:22.12 | Maloeran | Really? I wouldn't have guessed that |
| 13:22.14 | ``Erik | but I'm old enough that I pick my battles against beaurocracy carefully :) |
| 13:22.28 | archivist | cos sometimes the prof is at the level of "if you cant do it, teach it" so you need to thoink around what the buggers are on about |
| 13:22.40 | ``Erik | heh, indeed |
| 13:23.03 | ``Erik | with my undergrad, there was only one prof that knew the subject.. the rest were regurgitation machines |
| 13:23.18 | ``Erik | there was on omfg computer scientist, one omfg software engineer, and a pack of fucktards |
| 13:23.25 | ``Erik | teaching the cirriculum |
| 13:23.41 | Maloeran | You may as well rely on books then |
| 13:23.49 | ``Erik | fortunately, the cs was my advisor, and I talked to him a lot, so I got a LOT more out of school than just the courses |
| 13:23.56 | ``Erik | heh |
| 13:24.04 | ``Erik | who will tell you the right book? |
| 13:24.13 | archivist | allways red multiple books on a subject for the same reasons |
| 13:24.17 | archivist | read |
| 13:24.30 | ``Erik | I have books on my shelf I would have never seen if it weren't for well informed people suggesting them *shrug* |
| 13:24.48 | ``Erik | like, in opengl, the average do-it-yourselfer would probably go look at nehe |
| 13:24.59 | ``Erik | if no one tells them "NO! Bad fucktard! no nehe! go read the redbook!" |
| 13:25.01 | ``Erik | ... |
| 13:25.53 | Maloeran | Sure, sure. I'm just not convinced the educational benefits are worth the time investment, but I'll ponder about that later |
| 13:26.10 | ``Erik | also; getting to sit down with a math teacher and get the REAL scoop on quaternions in a sit tdown session was... invaluable. |
| 13:26.45 | archivist | I have started a few courses but ended up not finishing as the day job got in the way |
| 13:26.48 | ``Erik | the educational benefits are not limited to lectures *shrug* |
| 13:27.06 | ``Erik | don't discount the atmosphere and availability of expertise |
| 13:27.30 | ``Erik | despite the mountains of bullshit heaped out of the institution |
| 13:27.30 | ``Erik | :D |
| 13:27.40 | archivist | open university maths was hard for me but the 1 to 1 tutorials got me through |
| 13:27.47 | Maloeran | I see.. :) |
| 13:28.43 | Maloeran | There are _way_ too many papers without any content worth reading out there, it's horrible |
| 13:29.29 | ``Erik | yeah, most of those papers are the uni saying "you must publish this year" and the person going "oh, uhhhh, ok, lemme crap in a word processor for a week, shove it out the door, and go back to what I was doing" |
| 13:30.18 | archivist | then a crap reviewer doesnt read and check properly |
| 13:30.21 | ``Erik | heh, I did one lame publication... and just straight copied most of it into another multi-person paper... *shrug* |
| 13:30.57 | ``Erik | if you're punished for not producing, but not punished for producing crap... save your time for fun stuff, shove crap out the door |
| 13:31.31 | Maloeran | Exactly. Most papers coming out of private companies and so on appear equally worthless, it's not limited to the educational system |
| 13:31.48 | ``Erik | hm |
| 13:31.48 | Maloeran | I'm really amazed by this need, this urge to publish even when one doesn't have anything to say |
| 13:32.04 | ``Erik | it's a condition of pointy haired management, I believe |
| 13:32.14 | ``Erik | not the people writing the papers |
| 13:32.22 | Maloeran | Most likely so, yes |
| 13:32.26 | dtidrow | yep |
| 13:32.52 | ``Erik | of the, um, five publications I have out or in queue for this org... on my own, I wouldn't have called any of them publishable. |
| 13:33.08 | ``Erik | my old stuff is far more useful, heh |
| 13:33.53 | ``Erik | but if I don't have publications, I get graded down in my annual review |
| 13:34.26 | Maloeran | The "new" developments from Siggraph in the field of raytracing that Lee presented were already out there, present in dozen papers pratically copying each other |
| 13:34.53 | Maloeran | Seriously? Now that is sad |
| 13:34.55 | ``Erik | heh |
| 13:35.03 | ``Erik | look over the last 5 yrs of siggraph |
| 13:35.12 | ``Erik | every year, it's the same damn stuff |
| 13:35.17 | ``Erik | with minor tweaks |
| 13:35.20 | Maloeran | Exactly |
| 13:35.46 | ``Erik | but I enjoyed siggraph a lot... getting to talk to people... the papers are just fluff, talking to people is where it gets cool |
| 13:35.46 | Maloeran | And apparently, we are going to go over the same old stuff on September 18-20 |
| 13:35.58 | dtidrow | what conference is then? |
| 13:36.08 | ``Erik | ieee rt06 |
| 13:36.21 | ``Erik | http://www.sci.utah.edu/RT06/index.html |
| 13:36.47 | ``Erik | fuck |
| 13:36.51 | Maloeran | Frankly, I would rather just keep coding than go, but... |
| 13:36.53 | Maloeran | Hum? |
| 13:36.58 | ``Erik | I need to do my poster, it was accepted and I haven't really started it, heh |
| 13:37.38 | ``Erik | ohyeah, I showed the output of your program to some people and they liked it... fyi |
| 13:38.06 | ``Erik | 510k p/s on a dual 2.0 p4-xeon |
| 13:38.07 | Maloeran | The current slow and crude pixel dump or the prototype? |
| 13:38.12 | ``Erik | the pixel dump |
| 13:38.17 | Maloeran | Gah! Don't show that :) |
| 13:38.19 | ``Erik | I hit it with pix-png -a |
| 13:38.21 | ``Erik | heh |
| 13:38.24 | ``Erik | dude |
| 13:38.28 | ``Erik | it's visible output |
| 13:38.31 | Maloeran | Show that : http://www.rayforce.net/lightdemo-ms.avi |
| 13:38.35 | ``Erik | they were psyched |
| 13:39.01 | Maloeran | Eh well, as long as you don't say much about the current level of performance of that thing :) |
| 13:39.19 | ``Erik | I mentioned it, and noted that you had not started optimizing it yet |
| 13:39.24 | ``Erik | you're ahead of the game, dude, it's all good |
| 13:39.45 | ``Erik | I mean, I'm running renders at 20k p/s on that machine |
| 13:39.55 | ``Erik | 510k is definitely an improvement |
| 13:40.01 | Maloeran | Was it Lee and/or Wendy, or other unspecified people? |
| 13:40.54 | ``Erik | heh, both the named people |
| 13:41.01 | ``Erik | I showed it to lee, he showed it to wendy |
| 13:43.30 | Maloeran | Ahead of the game by one day I suppose :), I needed visible output for today |
| 13:44.06 | ``Erik | I saw a pixdump, that's visible output *shrug* if anyone asks, I'm gonna say we met that milestone early |
| 13:44.31 | ``Erik | now an SDL interactive quack type thingie would be awesome, but it's fluff |
| 13:45.09 | Maloeran | I really could use 2 weeks to complete the model preparation, it's terribly crude |
| 13:45.47 | Maloeran | Ehehe |
| 13:46.19 | ``Erik | um, you have a week estimate for regression suite, do you really think that'd take more than a day? |
| 13:46.28 | ``Erik | and another week for api review |
| 13:46.30 | ``Erik | ... hurrrr |
| 13:46.48 | ``Erik | and then 3 weeks for ray bundles, which you probably already have, or are close to |
| 13:46.49 | Maloeran | The regression suite, that's testing the raytracing for accuracy? |
| 13:46.49 | ``Erik | ... |
| 13:47.18 | dtidrow | heh - padding, padding, padding ;-) |
| 13:47.19 | ``Erik | um, accuracy, performance, functionality |
| 13:47.19 | Maloeran | Right right, it's all good ; that initial rendering milestone was the tricky one |
| 13:47.23 | ``Erik | just a nightly script to compile it, run it, annotate a file with some info |
| 13:48.32 | dtidrow | in lightdemo-ms.avi - did you notice that the tank is actually the mirror image of the real thing? |
| 13:48.39 | ``Erik | I'd actually recommend two scripts, one very simple skeleton that checks out the repo fresh in like /usr/tmp/rayforce-`date +%Y%m%d%H%M`, runs another script, then rm -rf's |
| 13:49.02 | Maloeran | Is it, dtidrow? My coordinate system might be... mirrored |
| 13:49.04 | ``Erik | and the other script to autogen, configure, build, and run the programs |
| 13:49.37 | ``Erik | hah, it is mirrored |
| 13:49.58 | Maloeran | Oops :} |
| 13:50.04 | dtidrow | I wondered why it looked wrong at first :-) |
| 13:50.12 | dtidrow | s/wrong/odd/ |
| 13:51.38 | Maloeran | The new code doesn't produce a mirrored output though. Curious, still |
| 13:52.51 | ``Erik | aaanyways, we need to get some good representative models with better use policies... anything released with brlcad is grand to use, and I need to track down 'owners' for a couple models to get them approved for public release... one being a toyota "hilux" pickup truck |
| 13:53.53 | Maloeran | Right. Or I'll have a nice renaissance frigate soon as I said |
| 13:54.36 | ``Erik | well, as much as I'd love to get my hands on that model, pay attention to the license... |
| 13:57.03 | Maloeran | For the frigate? That won't be a problem |
| 13:58.40 | ``Erik | if'n ya buy it and put i t in the cvs repo, there should probably be an accompanying license or something, to make it clear where it came from, who holds the copyright, and what the license agreement is |
| 13:59.12 | ``Erik | total cya. :D |
| 13:59.43 | Maloeran | Yes, we'll have to make it clear. The author is a hobbist who usually just distributes his stuff freely |
| 13:59.47 | Maloeran | Have fun with that poster :) |
| 14:00.03 | ``Erik | cya == "cover your ass" |
| 14:00.15 | Maloeran | Ohh :) |
| 14:00.24 | dtidrow | ``Erik: I used to work at TACOM years ago, so I'm rather familiar with tanks :-) |
| 14:00.47 | dtidrow | bbl - got a squacky baby to deal with... |
| 14:01.12 | ``Erik | nifty, I'm rdecomm, arl/slad/bs |
| 14:09.29 | dtidrow | ``Erik: so yu work up at Aberdeen with lee and that crowd? |
| 14:10.13 | ``Erik | 'fraid so |
| 14:11.09 | ``Erik | I'm sorta kinda in the flux of going back to lee's team at the moment... everyone but the branch chief acknowleged that I changed teams back to acst like six months ago, heh |
| 14:11.31 | dtidrow | heh |
| 14:12.13 | ``Erik | the limbo was... somewhat pleasant :) but now I'm back to workin' *sigh* |
| 14:12.38 | dtidrow | lol |
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| 14:59.02 | archivist | thinking about my pendulum, I want 3d cad to calc the CG at different temperatures when filled with mercury (so needs to know about contained liquids) |
| 14:59.57 | archivist | I had to draw multiple versions in solidworks to get around it |
| 15:05.57 | ``Erik | that'd be a fluid dynamics problem to solve the shape of the fluid... |
| 15:06.11 | ``Erik | once you have the shape and densities, the cg is fairly easy |
| 15:06.59 | ``Erik | <-- been itching to do fem/cfd type code in brlcad, but has no time just yet |
| 15:09.08 | archivist | but the shape of the container is changing with temp so "needs" to be part of 3d system (little need as far as I can see in the real world) as compensation is done in software these days |
| 15:10.27 | archivist | just that we deal with people building clocks in the old fashioned way |
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| 21:03.31 | Maloeran | This is weird. I never noticed before that the m1 model has "polygons" where the 3 points are colinear, that causes some nasty artefacts in the new code |
| 21:11.11 | dtidrow_work | all three colinear? |
| 21:11.44 | dtidrow_work | oh, duh - thinking of something else |
| 21:12.03 | dtidrow_work | degenerate tris to make longer strips, perhaps? |
| 21:13.06 | Maloeran | Perhaps so, I suppose I'll have to strip them out for raytracing |
| 21:55.19 | ``Erik | why? |
| 21:58.39 | Maloeran | My intersection test can't handle triangles with an area of 0.0, and logically, no rays is ever going to hit them anyway |
| 22:20.34 | ``Erik | ah, div by zero error? |
| 22:24.46 | Maloeran | More like the preparation of such triangles, prior to raytracing, outputting a few NaNs |
| 22:37.16 | *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) |