| 00:06.50 | ``Erik | status: my dinner is almost done |
| 00:06.50 | ``Erik | :D |
| 00:06.54 | ``Erik | oh, and I got the macbook on the network... now to get the source... and the dependancies... heh |
| 00:07.08 | Maloeran | Oh :) |
| 00:11.15 | ``Erik | chekcing out... |
| 00:13.18 | Maloeran | Threaded ray tracing should work smoothly now |
| 03:12.31 | *** join/#brlcad Matsu (n=kurumin@201-7-126-204.superonda.com.br) |
| 03:13.04 | Matsu | Hi, Good evening |
| 03:13.12 | Matsu | Is there somebody live? |
| 03:14.32 | Matsu | folks? |
| 03:19.30 | Maloeran | Good evening |
| 03:20.29 | brlcad | howdy |
| 03:23.13 | Matsu | hey |
| 03:23.18 | Matsu | Man |
| 03:23.33 | Matsu | I cant find a tutorial to explane me how to import dwg files |
| 03:23.34 | Matsu | :( |
| 03:23.58 | Matsu | And.. sorry for my poor english... it's not my mothertongue |
| 03:23.59 | brlcad | there isn't a dwg importer, only a dxf one |
| 03:24.09 | Matsu | oh man... :( |
| 03:24.16 | brlcad | also dwg is a 2D drafting format, not a 3D solid modeling one |
| 03:24.25 | brlcad | and solid modeling is brl-cad's focus |
| 03:24.39 | brlcad | not drafting purposes so much |
| 03:24.54 | Matsu | But man, what cad client should i use then? |
| 03:25.10 | Matsu | i knew you were focused in 3d modeling |
| 03:25.14 | brlcad | the only mildly interesting open source 2D drafter that comes to mind is qcad |
| 03:25.36 | Matsu | qcad? |
| 03:25.38 | Matsu | ok |
| 03:25.54 | Matsu | man, thank you very much |
| 03:26.52 | Matsu | And let me tell you that this project seemed to me (some one that knows nothing about softs...) you guys have a nice project |
| 03:26.57 | Matsu | Man, thanks |
| 03:27.12 | Matsu | I've autocad |
| 03:27.14 | Matsu | but |
| 03:27.25 | Matsu | i want an open source |
| 03:27.31 | Matsu | and i'm also |
| 03:27.34 | Matsu | migrating to linux |
| 03:27.36 | Matsu | so... |
| 03:27.47 | Matsu | auto cad has nothing to linux |
| 03:27.50 | Matsu | a pity |
| 03:27.57 | Maloeran | Eheh, right. Last time I used Autocad was on DOS, I guess they only migrated to windows |
| 03:28.20 | Matsu | right. they have only support for windows. |
| 03:28.35 | Matsu | and run things through wine is not so cool i'd say |
| 03:28.54 | Matsu | i tryied to do with a simple program and is crashig all the time |
| 03:29.04 | Matsu | so.. i dont wanna use wine to run win softs |
| 03:29.20 | Matsu | Guys, ty for all. Good luck |
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| 15:36.53 | jack- | heya |
| 15:36.59 | jack- | anyone around atm? |
| 15:37.25 | jack- | i've run into a silly problem, trying to build adrt |
| 15:37.47 | jack- | the header file splash.h just isn't included with brlcad7.8.4.tgz |
| 15:37.52 | jack- | ..wtf ;) |
| 15:39.14 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-94-96.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 15:39.15 | jack- | hi clock_ |
| 15:39.23 | clock_ | jack-: hi |
| 15:39.32 | clock_ | Can I run brl-cad under vnc? |
| 15:39.37 | jack- | i bet |
| 15:39.42 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-94-96.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 15:39.48 | jack- | i bet you can |
| 15:39.59 | jack- | did you build adrt already? |
| 15:45.41 | ``Erik | heh, splash.h is missing? hrm |
| 15:47.15 | jack- | yeah |
| 15:47.22 | jack- | trying the 7.8.0 archive now |
| 15:47.38 | jack- | if it's included there, it's ok |
| 15:47.51 | jack- | but you'll want to include it with 7.8.4 as well ;) |
| 15:48.10 | ``Erik | I'd be surprised if it got removed |
| 15:48.17 | ``Erik | given what it was, I'm sure it was never included |
| 15:48.18 | ``Erik | :/ |
| 15:48.32 | jack- | observer.c wants it |
| 15:48.46 | jack- | whatever it shows, i don't care :) just want the stuff to build finally |
| 15:49.06 | ``Erik | yeah, it's a splashscreen image that just sits for a second, if you hack observer.c so it doesn't try the pslash screen, it'll be all good |
| 15:50.21 | jack- | would need to hack it thoroughly, since it's a header file and observer.c coughs without.missing a couple defines and functions |
| 15:51.22 | jack- | surprise, sigh |
| 15:51.30 | jack- | root# tar tzf brlcad-7.8.0.tgz |grep splash |
| 15:51.34 | jack- | root# |
| 15:51.40 | jack- | ;( |
| 15:52.53 | jack- | fn~``Erik: is it big? i could just include a .patch and write it into the builddir myself |
| 15:53.05 | jack- | if you'd dcc splash.h to me :) |
| 15:53.57 | jack- | (i'm trying to package brlcad for fink/macos x, that's why) |
| 15:54.27 | jack- | builds perfectly, but i want adrt too of course |
| 16:04.09 | ``Erik | jack: it's an 800x600 image reduced to raw rgb, then printed as an array of numbers... |
| 16:04.32 | jack- | sounds like "yeah, kinda big" |
| 16:04.37 | ``Erik | and I don't have it, I'd have to talk to the guy who wrote it, heh, or create an equivelant, or just take out the references to it... (hack observer.c, like I said) |
| 16:05.04 | ``Erik | <-- just got a new laptop, so doesn't have ssh keys on sf yet :/ just submitted, but has to wait for the rotation |
| 16:05.22 | jack- | well, observer.c is trying to do more than just access an array.. |
| 16:05.32 | jack- | guess i'd need the rest of that file at least ;x |
| 16:06.02 | jack- | ok, maybe you're right and it's doable |
| 16:06.12 | ``Erik | anything is doable :D |
| 16:06.20 | ``Erik | given sufficient time and knowlege |
| 16:06.23 | ``Erik | knowledge |
| 16:06.24 | jack- | gonna comment all the isst_logo stuff out and try again |
| 16:06.27 | jack- | heh, yeah |
| 16:06.30 | ``Erik | knowledge of spelling would help :D |
| 16:06.46 | jack- | but as a packager, i usually don't waste too much time with a single package you know ;) |
| 16:07.09 | ``Erik | which os? |
| 16:07.13 | jack- | given that brlcad is huge and awesome, i'll try though |
| 16:07.19 | jack- | fink/macos x |
| 16:07.57 | ``Erik | cool, I'm going through and getting all my goodies installed on my new macbook pro 17" :) |
| 16:08.06 | jack- | :) |
| 16:08.16 | ``Erik | adrt/isst really isn't taht much of a part of brlcad, though |
| 16:08.25 | jack- | join #fink if you need/want help |
| 16:08.33 | jack- | yeah well, it's the SDL frontend |
| 16:08.39 | ``Erik | brlcad's geometry format is the ".g database", and adrt uses its own formats |
| 16:08.43 | jack- | so quite some mac users would love it |
| 16:08.51 | ``Erik | adrt is strictly facetized geomtry, brlcad is very much csg |
| 16:08.58 | jack- | i know, yeah |
| 16:09.03 | ``Erik | adrt was just shoved into brlcad as "a convenient place to put it" |
| 16:09.13 | jack- | haha ok :) |
| 16:09.14 | ``Erik | I force it to not build on my fbsd port |
| 16:09.23 | ``Erik | <-- used to use fink, went to darwinports/macports, sorry ;) |
| 16:09.27 | jack- | and users don't cry? |
| 16:09.39 | jack- | well, you can use both on a single mac without problems |
| 16:09.44 | ``Erik | 99.9% of users can't find mged, much less know they're missing adrt |
| 16:09.51 | jack- | dp lives in /opt/local while fink uses /sw |
| 16:09.54 | ``Erik | yeah, I know |
| 16:09.58 | ``Erik | I used to do that |
| 16:10.12 | jack- | what i like about fink is the fact that it's using the debian tools |
| 16:10.15 | jack- | dpkg/apt |
| 16:10.19 | ``Erik | but kept moving to darwinorts more and more... the last thing keeping fink on my machine was gnucash |
| 16:10.25 | jack- | that makes packaging fun for real |
| 16:10.32 | jack- | heh :) ok then |
| 16:10.56 | ``Erik | <-- has a couple debian boxes, never packaged for it... is very much a fbsd guy, and dp uses a /usr/ports/ like thingy,almost... kinda... sorta... |
| 16:11.05 | ``Erik | a lot of retarded, so I THINK it might be more influenced by gentoo |
| 16:11.10 | jack- | kinda, yeah ;) |
| 16:11.10 | ``Erik | stupid linux kids *shakes fist* :D |
| 16:11.18 | jack- | you know there's gentoo/osx too |
| 16:11.28 | jack- | but i can't recommend to use that :p |
| 16:11.34 | ``Erik | ummmmm |
| 16:12.05 | ``Erik | http://funroll-loops.org/ |
| 16:12.46 | jack- | :D |
| 16:12.54 | ``Erik | (if I gotta use linux, I go with debian, but I'm a bsd guy... done time on solaris, hpux, aix, ... still likes me my bsd's) |
| 16:12.55 | jack- | times out here, but cute url |
| 16:13.11 | jack- | maybe i should do http://vomit-frame-pointer.org? |
| 16:13.24 | ``Erik | yeah, the server seems to be down or something |
| 16:13.25 | ``Erik | *sigh* |
| 16:13.36 | ``Erik | doesn't ping |
| 16:13.48 | ``Erik | but the topic of the page is "gentoo is for ricers" |
| 16:13.55 | jack- | hrhr |
| 16:14.17 | jack- | well anyway, thanks for the hint..i'll package brlcad without adrt for now |
| 16:14.17 | ``Erik | with a point by point teardown of the mentality (with real forum and mail list quotes), and pictures of fugly assed 'riced' cars |
| 16:14.17 | ``Erik | :) |
| 16:14.40 | ``Erik | okie, once the keys rotate, I'll look into doing something about the splash screen |
| 16:14.42 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/observer/Makefile.am: missing splash.h header from dist |
| 16:14.59 | brlcad | jack-: yeah, it's missing from the dist .. but it's in CVS |
| 16:15.09 | jack- | sent an email to brlcad@survice.com, asking for help :) maybe someone notices |
| 16:15.12 | jack- | oh, sweet |
| 16:15.22 | jack- | i'll use anoncvs, thanks |
| 16:15.28 | ``Erik | oh, swank |
| 16:15.30 | ``Erik | aight |
| 16:15.51 | brlcad | heh, @survice.com? where'd you get that e-mail from? |
| 16:16.02 | ``Erik | ehhh, survice.com probably has their own dealie |
| 16:16.13 | ``Erik | trying to convince people they do it so they can charge for it, sheesh |
| 16:16.14 | ``Erik | :D |
| 16:16.16 | jack- | http://brlcad.com |
| 16:16.23 | ``Erik | brlcad.org is the real one |
| 16:16.24 | brlcad | they provide commercial support |
| 16:16.28 | ``Erik | :D |
| 16:16.36 | jack- | duh, ok |
| 16:16.38 | brlcad | the main website is the .org |
| 16:16.44 | jack- | yeah i figured :) |
| 16:16.57 | jack- | but looking for a support email there, i only found out about this chan |
| 16:17.06 | brlcad | either way, the header is here if you want to give it a try: http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/splash.h |
| 16:17.06 | ``Erik | oh ffs |
| 16:17.13 | ``Erik | no fucking wonder shit is fucking broken, those fucking fucktards |
| 16:17.14 | jack- | thanks! |
| 16:17.22 | jack- | don't swear ;) |
| 16:17.39 | ``Erik | sorry, just realized why my ssh keys weren't working. orgnizational retardation. |
| 16:17.59 | brlcad | jack-: you will have to tweak the build to get adrt to compile, it's not been integrated for a seamless compile yet |
| 16:18.12 | jack- | oh, i see |
| 16:18.15 | brlcad | i.e. you'll have to override the flags to get things to link, for example |
| 16:18.23 | jack- | alright |
| 16:18.29 | jack- | thanks for the warning :) |
| 16:18.40 | brlcad | unless you happen to have stuff in exactly the same place justin did when he last committed.. ;) |
| 16:19.01 | brlcad | there are some hard-coded paths and other assumptions |
| 16:19.10 | jack- | hehe ok |
| 16:19.19 | brlcad | if you're making a release distribution, you can leave adrt out of it without really any impact |
| 16:19.33 | jack- | ok |
| 16:19.33 | brlcad | adrt isn't installed in our own binary releases yet even |
| 16:19.41 | jack- | alright :) |
| 16:20.51 | ``Erik | ohyeah, jack, the tcl/tk stuff... it doesn't quite work right if you use the system tcl/tk due to path issues... so at the moment (unless something has changed recently), you'll need to force it to build the included tcl and tk... |
| 16:21.03 | jack- | oh |
| 16:21.06 | jack- | i wondered already |
| 16:21.23 | jack- | because it recognizes and links to my libtcl, but builds its own libtk |
| 16:22.10 | ``Erik | http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/ports/cad/brlcad/ <-- the freebsd port stuff |
| 16:22.12 | brlcad | if you run into a problem, recompile with --enable-almost-everything |
| 16:22.22 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) |
| 16:22.24 | ``Erik | you might get some clues out of the makefile |
| 16:22.29 | jack- | ok |
| 16:22.32 | brlcad | that will remove the external dependencies |
| 16:22.51 | jack- | if i do --without-sdl, it will only disable adrt right? |
| 16:22.57 | brlcad | there's even a few tools in the dist named after you |
| 16:23.00 | brlcad | g-jack |
| 16:23.01 | brlcad | jack-g |
| 16:23.06 | ``Erik | at the moment, only adrt/isst uses sdl, yeah |
| 16:23.08 | jack- | noticed already ;) |
| 16:23.12 | brlcad | heh |
| 16:23.40 | brlcad | you should need to enable/disable it |
| 16:24.04 | brlcad | adrt will be automatically disabled if it doesn't find what it needs .. and if it's trying, then --disable-adrt |
| 16:24.17 | jack- | ok |
| 16:24.22 | ``Erik | --disable-adrt-build |
| 16:24.29 | brlcad | same flag |
| 16:24.41 | ``Erik | okie, *shrug* |
| 16:24.49 | jack- | --without-sdl works too, i really don't mind skipping adrt/isst if it's that unimportant |
| 16:24.57 | brlcad | (lots of aliases, so one doesn't have to care) |
| 16:25.18 | brlcad | it'll be cool/good to get adrt working with the default build |
| 16:25.23 | brlcad | but nobody has done that yet |
| 16:25.34 | jack- | include splash.h and someone might succeed ;) |
| 16:27.09 | brlcad | you have to be pretty familiar with resolving symbols and linking software to fix it .. your random compiling user does not know much about that and I'd rather not be inundated with support requests |
| 16:27.27 | brlcad | regardless, the splash.h was just fixed (/me points up at CIA message) |
| 16:27.31 | jack- | that's what fink is for, don't worry |
| 16:27.43 | jack- | the users will only but me, since i'm $MAINTAINER |
| 16:27.49 | jack- | *bug |
| 16:28.42 | brlcad | glad someone is putting it into fink.. thanks :) |
| 16:28.58 | jack- | had to autoreconf brlcad anyway, -undefined dynamic_lookup is way too dirty ;) |
| 16:29.06 | jack- | but with autoreconf it builds like a charm |
| 16:29.33 | brlcad | ahh, you mean from that source dist |
| 16:29.38 | jack- | yeah |
| 16:29.45 | jack- | brlcad7.8.4.tbz |
| 16:30.29 | jack- | (there's no automatism in fink yet, for checking out cvs/svn repos to get source) |
| 16:33.03 | jack- | if you're interested, i'll show you what i had to do to get it to build |
| 16:33.27 | brlcad | in a bit, sure.. have to run out for a little while though |
| 16:33.27 | jack- | PatchScript: << |
| 16:33.27 | jack- | autoreconf -fvi |
| 16:33.27 | jack- | perl -pi -e "s,-g -O,-O,g;s,-O2,-Os,g;s,-O3,-Os,g;s,/[s]w,%p,g;" configure |
| 16:33.27 | jack- | perl -pi -e "s,-all_load,,g;" configure aclocal.m4 |
| 16:33.28 | jack- | perl -pi -e "s,/usr/local,%p,g;s,-lpython2.4,-L%p/lib/python2.4/config -lpython2.4,g" src/adrt/isst/master/Makefile.in |
| 16:33.31 | jack- | perl -pi -e 's,ac_default_prefix=/usr/local,ac_default_prefix=%p,;s,search_dir="/usr/local",search_dir="/fart",' configure |
| 16:33.33 | brlcad | or not :) |
| 16:33.34 | jack- | << |
| 16:33.36 | jack- | ok |
| 16:34.09 | jack- | ConfigureParams: --mandir=%p/share/man --with-extra-includes=%p/include --with-extra-libs=%p/lib --disable-dependency-tracking --with-x --with-sdl --with-python --with-jdk --with-opengl --enable-proe-plugin-build --enable-unigraphics-build --enable-optimized --enable-progress --disable-debug --libdir=%p/lib/brlcad/lib --bindir=%p/lib/brlcad/bin --includedir=%p/lib/brlcad/include |
| 16:34.37 | jack- | (that way, the huge bunch of binaries/libs doesn't collide with other fink packages like skencil, tcltk etc) |
| 16:36.11 | brlcad | erm, wouldn't the first perl be achieved with a configure CFLAGS? second isn't necessary without adrt, third should be achieved using --prefix? |
| 16:36.47 | brlcad | some of the options you've added won't fly too |
| 16:37.10 | jack- | the first...could be, yeah..but i need to replace the hardcoded /sw with the fink prefix of $USER |
| 16:37.11 | brlcad | dependency tracking is automatically disabled for non-cvs builds |
| 16:38.00 | brlcad | all the --with flags are auto-detected and really would probably be best left off regardless with maybe the exception of with-opengl |
| 16:38.10 | jack- | 3rd can be removed without adrt, true of course |
| 16:38.19 | brlcad | you don't want the proe and unigraphics modules, you don't have the developer toolkits to link them |
| 16:38.29 | jack- | i just want to make sure it builds the same on every user's system ;) |
| 16:38.36 | jack- | ok |
| 16:38.56 | brlcad | --enable-almost-everything is the best to ensure it builds the same ;) |
| 16:39.06 | jack- | alright, thanks |
| 16:39.17 | jack- | just sounded too fuzzy for me, i guess ;) |
| 16:39.25 | brlcad | that will turn on compilation of all our external dependencies so there are no external requirements |
| 16:39.37 | brlcad | --enable-everything if you want to be brief |
| 16:39.42 | brlcad | but it's the same thing |
| 16:40.00 | brlcad | it just can't enable things like the proe and unigraphics modules, so its .. "almost" everything |
| 16:40.23 | brlcad | there's a list in configure.ac if you really care, but the flag's intent is what you wanted |
| 16:40.26 | jack- | i see |
| 16:44.46 | clock_ | Can I run mged under vnc to make an instruction video? |
| 16:45.39 | brlcad | don't see why not, but you don't need vnc for that.. there are several screen capture apps that dump to video |
| 16:49.05 | clock_ | which? |
| 16:49.16 | ``Erik | hrmph, I would IMAGINE that if some form of hardware rasterization is being used (opengl, hw 2d accel), such an app would have to do something to extract the image or info to reconstruct the image from the cards frame buffer... ? |
| 16:49.35 | ``Erik | (does any accelerated ogl program display through vnc?) |
| 16:49.46 | clock_ | intiailizing and backgrounding please wait |
| 16:50.05 | ``Erik | you should at least get decorations, heh |
| 16:50.16 | clock_ | Xlib: extension GLX missing on :1.0. Xlib: extension GLX missiong on :1.0. ogl_open: Can't gen an appropriate visual. Done. |
| 16:50.28 | clock_ | that's what I get when I run mged in vncviewer |
| 16:51.18 | clock_ | no windows, no decorations nothing |
| 16:51.28 | clock_ | Just these messages are printed and I get back to the prompt./ |
| 16:51.46 | clock_ | I have an unsatisfied feeling from that error message. |
| 16:52.42 | ``Erik | that's an X error, in your X config file, you need the GLX extension |
| 16:56.09 | brlcad | or you need to recompile mged without opengl |
| 16:56.42 | brlcad | and just stick to the X11 display manager (--without-opengl will do the trick, iirc) |
| 16:56.47 | clock_ | Can I do it without recompiling opengl? |
| 16:56.55 | clock_ | I don't want to disable opengl for my real display |
| 16:56.55 | brlcad | only in classic mode |
| 16:57.04 | brlcad | mged -c .. then select X instead of ogl |
| 16:57.12 | ``Erik | heh |
| 16:57.16 | brlcad | but you'll be missing the menus |
| 16:57.23 | ``Erik | I strongly doubt that's what he really wants in making a graphical tutorial |
| 16:57.24 | ``Erik | :) |
| 16:57.57 | brlcad | clock_: disabling opengl in mged doesn't remove any functionality, it'll look and behave identical |
| 16:58.21 | brlcad | it's just whether it draws using X11 calls or OpenGL calls internally in brl-cad's display manager library |
| 16:58.33 | clock_ | unfortunately, mged -c shows only 1 pane instead of 4 |
| 16:58.37 | clock_ | and no menu |
| 16:58.47 | brlcad | yep, that's classic mode |
| 16:58.57 | clock_ | mged --without-opengl doesn't work |
| 16:59.01 | brlcad | no no |
| 16:59.04 | brlcad | it's a configure option |
| 16:59.08 | brlcad | you'd have to recompile |
| 16:59.10 | clock_ | aha |
| 16:59.19 | clock_ | can I run without recompile under vnc while retaining the menus? |
| 16:59.40 | brlcad | the tcl/tk interface isn't changeable at run-time like the classic mode -- it's compiled for only one display manager |
| 16:59.55 | brlcad | only if you install GLX |
| 17:00.07 | clock_ | what is GLX? Does it make my vnc support opengl? |
| 17:00.16 | ``Erik | GLX is how X talks opengl |
| 17:00.36 | clock_ | and if I install GLX will I be able to run mged under vnc with the menus? |
| 17:00.49 | ``Erik | in your X config file... you should have a Modules section |
| 17:01.01 | ``Erik | and in that should be: Load "glx" |
| 17:01.07 | clock_ | There is Load "glx" |
| 17:01.11 | ``Erik | hum |
| 17:01.11 | clock_ | so why doesn't it work? |
| 17:01.17 | ``Erik | do any other opengl programs work via vnc? |
| 17:01.28 | clock_ | how can I figure if a program is opengl? |
| 17:01.30 | ``Erik | 'gears' for example |
| 17:01.42 | clock_ | I don't have gears |
| 17:01.46 | clock_ | clock@kestrel:~$ gears |
| 17:01.46 | clock_ | bash: gears: command not found |
| 17:02.33 | clock_ | what other program needs opengl? |
| 17:02.50 | clock_ | hehe I found glxgears |
| 17:03.00 | ``Erik | woops, glxgears, yeah |
| 17:03.16 | clock_ | No glxgears don't work under vnc, just tried |
| 17:03.28 | clock_ | glx extension missing, can't get double-buffered RGB visual |
| 17:04.06 | clock_ | but never mind the recording program is crap anyway |
| 17:04.15 | clock_ | I managed to make one video explaining how to use gschem |
| 17:04.26 | clock_ | but when I tried with links, it always crashed halfway in the transcoding |
| 17:04.43 | clock_ | once it said the file it generated itself contains some invalid data, second time it crashed on X error |
| 17:04.55 | clock_ | vnc2swf also crashes every couple of minutes, not really usable |
| 17:05.14 | jack- | brlcad: which sdk's are required to build the proe and unigraphics modules? are they open/free? |
| 17:05.22 | clock_ | http://ronja.twibright.com/video/gschem.avi that's what I made |
| 17:05.59 | jack- | i mean, it seems to build fine with the stuff enabled, there are no link problems |
| 17:06.04 | jack- | so what do i need? |
| 17:06.21 | clock_ | and if I build --without-opengl, will it be also without the menus? |
| 17:07.03 | ``Erik | yes |
| 17:07.11 | clock_ | sucks |
| 17:07.33 | jack- | brb |
| 17:07.33 | ``Erik | jack: the proe and unigraphics libs need propeitary libraries which are very much NOT free |
| 17:07.40 | jack- | oh |
| 17:07.47 | jack- | i see |
| 17:24.37 | clock_ | What other screen capture programs do you know? |
| 17:24.45 | clock_ | Which don't require Windows? |
| 17:27.11 | clock_ | once I think I tried xvidcap but it was disaster |
| 17:27.21 | clock_ | it was capable of like 2 frames per second or so |
| 18:07.22 | jack- | ok, seems to build fine without adrt |
| 18:07.34 | jack- | takes a few hours on my 350mhz crapmac though |
| 18:07.58 | jack- | http://pdb.finkproject.org/pdb/maintainer.php?maintainer=jack@krass.com <- that's me, if you're interested |
| 18:08.21 | jack- | sphinx2 and sphinx3 will pop up there soon-ish, too ;) |
| 18:15.06 | jack- | fn~``Erik: which products are the proe/unigraphics libs bundled with? |
| 18:15.14 | jack- | are they available for macos x? |
| 18:17.44 | ``Erik | uhm, pro/e has a whole slew of pieces, I THINK just the 'sdk tools' part is needed to build teh converter? they're at, I think, ptc.com |
| 18:17.49 | ``Erik | unigraphics, I'm not sure on :/ |
| 18:19.57 | ``Erik | <-- never touched 'em, brlcad has probably messed with them some... |
| 18:21.34 | jack- | ok, thx |
| 18:22.02 | jack- | might package the pro/e sdk too, if the license lets me |
| 18:22.21 | ``Erik | I think the pro/e sdk is a few thousand bucks :( |
| 18:22.28 | jack- | argh, ok:p |
| 18:22.42 | ``Erik | and it might only be irix and linux |
| 18:22.46 | ``Erik | *shrug* |
| 18:22.47 | ``Erik | oh |
| 18:22.49 | ``Erik | and windows |
| 18:22.49 | ``Erik | heh |
| 18:22.55 | jack- | of course :P |
| 18:23.44 | jack- | everything that builds on linux is portable to darwin, almost |
| 18:23.56 | jack- | unless it's using shitloads of linuxisms like procfs |
| 18:24.19 | ``Erik | hmmmm |
| 18:24.31 | ``Erik | their sdk won't be source available... |
| 18:25.25 | jack- | ok, no proe plugin for my users then |
| 18:25.34 | jack- | no, we don't |
| 18:31.07 | jack- | can i import old faceted models at all, without adrt? |
| 18:31.18 | jack- | stuff like softimage, wavefront, lightwave, imagine etc etc |
| 18:32.54 | ``Erik | hrm, I see imports for dxf (autocad), ply (standford?) |
| 18:33.25 | ``Erik | elysium neutral |
| 18:33.39 | jack- | dxf is ok already, thanks |
| 18:33.43 | ``Erik | exports for obj (wavefront), ... |
| 18:33.55 | jack- | there are tons of converters for *->dxf, so it should be fine |
| 18:34.08 | ``Erik | okie :) |
| 18:34.41 | jack- | think it's bad if i let it link to fink's libtcl? |
| 18:35.24 | jack- | we'll see if it runs :) |
| 18:35.26 | ``Erik | if you do, then mged won't start right, it'll complain about missing the core .tcl files |
| 18:35.36 | ``Erik | at least, that was my experience a bit ago... |
| 18:35.36 | jack- | oh |
| 18:35.41 | jack- | ok, i'll see :) |
| 18:35.51 | ``Erik | one of these days, either brlcad or I will get around to fixing that, heh |
| 18:36.05 | jack- | :) |
| 18:36.24 | jack- | doesn't hurt to use zlib, libpng etc if the stuff is there already, right |
| 18:37.35 | jack- | but it's sad, i want adrt to work too hehe |
| 18:37.36 | ``Erik | no, zlib png and urt work fine |
| 18:37.54 | jack- | include splash.h with the next tarball and it should build OK |
| 18:38.01 | ``Erik | didja take a look at http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/ports/cad/brlcad/Makefile?rev=1.18&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup ? |
| 18:38.11 | jack- | nope |
| 18:38.47 | jack- | i see :) |
| 18:38.55 | ``Erik | it's the freebsd port file... shows all the useful dependancies and flags and shtuff |
| 18:39.11 | jack- | jove gets disabled automatically here, since it's in fink and installed already |
| 18:39.25 | jack- | libpng seems to work too..we'll see |
| 18:40.57 | ``Erik | brlcad includes a copy of jove that will try to build if emacs isn't handy |
| 18:41.06 | ``Erik | cuz some dipshits have a thing against us vi guys |
| 18:41.11 | jack- | yeah, i figured :) |
| 18:41.27 | jack- | but it's np, jove is an own package in fink already |
| 18:41.36 | jack- | since not everyone who needs it wants a full emacs install |
| 18:42.51 | jack- | i might package sxemacs in a bit, people tell me it's the best of all forks |
| 18:42.52 | ``Erik | fbsd has editors/jove too... but if a user wants an editor, they'll install an editor, I don't think a cad package should require emacs/jove |
| 18:43.07 | ``Erik | <-- quit happy in vim :) |
| 18:43.09 | jack- | since i have no intention of ever using emacs, i have no idea ;) |
| 18:43.12 | jack- | yeah, same here |
| 18:43.15 | jack- | vim rules |
| 18:43.15 | ``Erik | some like nedit, some are happy in nano |
| 18:43.38 | ``Erik | that's why I put --disable-jove in my port file |
| 18:43.50 | jack- | i like kate for some things ;) hehe |
| 18:43.55 | jack- | there are too many editors |
| 18:45.12 | jack- | if i enjoy playing with brlcad, maybe i'll hack adrst/isst to use kde libs instead of sdl |
| 18:45.18 | jack- | but that smells like lots of work ;) |
| 18:45.25 | jack- | heh |
| 18:45.33 | jack- | the linking is fine :) |
| 18:45.34 | ``Erik | ewie, kde |
| 18:45.48 | ``Erik | the point of isst was to give an almost video game like interface |
| 18:45.56 | jack- | oh, i see |
| 18:46.04 | jack- | sdl is a good choice then, sure thing |
| 18:46.05 | ``Erik | for engineering visualization |
| 18:46.22 | ``Erik | engineering/analysis |
| 18:46.23 | jack- | but macosx/fink-sdl means no x11, it's cocoa-native |
| 18:46.43 | jack- | so if i want to have it all on my x11 desktop, i need to change things for adrt and isst |
| 18:46.49 | ``Erik | hum, I think isst has no dependancy on X? I don't remember |
| 18:47.02 | jack- | no, only on sdl :) that's what i mean |
| 18:47.10 | ``Erik | *shrug* |
| 18:47.57 | jack- | well, i'm glad it doesn't try to build its own sdl at least :P |
| 18:48.06 | jack- | since our sdl is majorly hacked |
| 18:48.24 | jack- | please don't :) |
| 18:48.42 | jack- | opengl is np, runs fine within x11 here |
| 18:48.45 | jack- | sdl doesn't |
| 18:48.49 | ``Erik | there's a variant of brlcad that runs on aqua-tk iirc |
| 18:49.02 | ``Erik | excuse me, BRL-CAD |
| 18:49.03 | ``Erik | heh |
| 18:49.06 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (i=docelic@ri01-029.dialin.iskon.hr) |
| 18:49.11 | jack- | :) |
| 18:49.57 | jack- | so happy i got the whole bunch to link at least |
| 18:50.07 | ``Erik | brlcad runs soley on korean food and mt dew o.O |
| 18:50.08 | ``Erik | :D |
| 18:50.37 | jack- | after patching a lot of Makefile.in files with -Wl,-undefined,dynamic_lookup |
| 18:50.53 | jack- | a voice said "dude, why don't you try autoreconfing the shit?" |
| 18:51.06 | jack- | and woops, all problems were gone |
| 18:51.17 | ``Erik | heh |
| 18:52.06 | ``Erik | couldn't' feed it through sed to make all the "patches"? |
| 18:52.26 | jack- | perl -pi -e == sed |
| 18:52.42 | jack- | does exactly the same, just slightly faster |
| 18:52.56 | ``Erik | provided the system has perl on it, sure |
| 18:53.00 | jack- | yeah |
| 18:53.15 | jack- | it's a core macosx component, and fink itself is perl code too |
| 18:53.29 | jack- | so it's something i just don't have to worry about, when packaging stuff for fink |
| 18:53.50 | jack- | ! :P |
| 18:53.57 | jack- | i like perl |
| 18:54.02 | ``Erik | I don't :) |
| 18:54.06 | jack- | it's far from human readable, ok |
| 18:54.10 | jack- | but mighty and useful |
| 18:54.29 | ``Erik | it's duct tape for unix *shrug* |
| 18:54.58 | jack- | yeah |
| 18:54.58 | ``Erik | 99.9999% of it's utility is for when the person using it doesn't know awk and sed well enough |
| 18:54.58 | jack- | there are moments when you just NEED duct tape, aren't there |
| 18:54.59 | jack- | haha .) |
| 18:55.07 | jack- | i prefer perl solely for speed reasons |
| 18:55.17 | ``Erik | and the minute you try to do something beyond a one-liner, it gets horribly ugly, unreadable, unmaintainable, ... |
| 18:55.20 | jack- | but when i have to do something more sophisticated, i still use awk |
| 18:55.26 | jack- | (and bc, etc etc) |
| 18:55.55 | ``Erik | that's, uh... two tiny things now... :) |
| 18:56.00 | jack- | :p |
| 18:56.08 | ``Erik | since, uh, '83 |
| 18:56.16 | jack- | hehe |
| 18:56.32 | jack- | i "dislike" other stuff lots more |
| 18:56.36 | ``Erik | one was just a convenient way to diddle with an sql rdbms that lacked real sql capabilities... stupid mysql |
| 18:56.40 | jack- | like python, ruby, tcl |
| 18:56.48 | ``Erik | I like ruby |
| 18:56.58 | jack- | why do i need 100 scripting languages on a system? ;) |
| 18:56.58 | ``Erik | not tcl... d'no python *shrug* |
| 18:57.04 | jack- | perl can do it all, or could |
| 18:57.05 | ``Erik | you don't |
| 18:57.06 | jack- | :P |
| 18:57.07 | ``Erik | get rid of perl |
| 18:57.10 | ``Erik | and just use something decent |
| 18:57.11 | ``Erik | like ruby |
| 18:57.13 | ``Erik | or scheme |
| 18:57.30 | jack- | or lisp, right? :) |
| 18:57.32 | ``Erik | gauche has some slickassed hooks in unix land and is pretty dang snappy |
| 18:57.39 | ``Erik | lisp is a big heavy |
| 18:57.45 | jack- | j/k |
| 18:57.56 | jack- | lisp is emacsfreak shit, to me |
| 18:58.03 | jack- | i'll never use it, i guess |
| 18:58.19 | ``Erik | emacs lisp is an entirely different language than cl |
| 18:58.23 | ``Erik | radiaclly different |
| 18:58.48 | ``Erik | the notion of fundamenal things like 'scope' isn't even the same |
| 18:58.58 | jack- | true, ok |
| 19:01.04 | jack- | curious to see how well things will run now, with a separate libdir/bindir |
| 19:01.28 | jack- | what do you think, which binaries are "essential" enough to symlink them to %p/bin? |
| 19:01.41 | jack- | mged, archer, what else? |
| 19:02.28 | ``Erik | archer isn't important... mged'l be the big one... maybe a script to add /sw/brlcad/bin to the path? |
| 19:02.45 | jack- | DescUsage: << |
| 19:02.45 | jack- | This package has way too many binaries to just pack it all into %p/bin, so it has its own |
| 19:02.45 | jack- | little tree inside %p/lib/%n. Suggested way of using it, on the command line: |
| 19:02.45 | jack- | cd %p/lib/%n/bin;export PATH=.:$PATH |
| 19:02.45 | jack- | << |
| 19:02.52 | jack- | ;) |
| 19:02.58 | ``Erik | and set up the right environment variables |
| 19:03.02 | ``Erik | like BRLCAD_ROOT |
| 19:03.05 | jack- | maybe i'll symlink none, and leave it that way |
| 19:03.06 | jack- | oh |
| 19:03.15 | jack- | that's needed? thanks |
| 19:03.31 | ``Erik | (it kinda expects to be somewhere like /usr/brlcad or /usr/local/brlcad .. maybe /sw/brlcad ... :) btu it expects to be in its own universe) |
| 19:03.45 | jack- | will make things easy for users if all parts read+respect that, cool |
| 19:04.01 | jack- | %p/lib/brlcad here |
| 19:04.17 | ``Erik | so the librarys are in /sw/lib/brlcad/lib/ ? |
| 19:04.20 | jack- | fink really dislikes when packages make dirs right in its root path |
| 19:04.23 | jack- | yeah, exactly |
| 19:04.25 | ``Erik | okie |
| 19:04.36 | ``Erik | *shrug* :) whatever works |
| 19:04.41 | jack- | :) |
| 19:04.51 | jack- | can't wait to render the bench pics finally |
| 19:04.52 | jack- | hehe |
| 19:04.55 | ``Erik | did you try installing it without fink so it can spew in /usr/brlcad ? |
| 19:05.03 | jack- | nope |
| 19:05.04 | ``Erik | and see the four hundred and something binaries in /usr/brlcad/bin/ ? |
| 19:05.17 | jack- | i did build it already, yeah :) |
| 19:05.31 | jack- | tons of binaries, some of which even collide with fink stuff |
| 19:05.43 | ``Erik | yeah, that's why it wants its own world |
| 19:05.44 | jack- | that's why i originally thought ok, own universe for this stuff |
| 19:05.48 | ``Erik | libraries collide, too |
| 19:05.53 | jack- | yup |
| 19:05.57 | jack- | libtk ;p |
| 19:06.06 | ``Erik | m |
| 19:06.07 | ``Erik | um |
| 19:06.12 | ``Erik | brlcad native libraries, even |
| 19:06.27 | jack- | kinda funky that it likes fink's libtcl, but not its libtk |
| 19:06.39 | jack- | maybe i'll let it build everything indeed |
| 19:06.39 | ``Erik | libbn or libbu, one of thsoe two, conflicts with something really common, like a lib in openssl or something |
| 19:06.50 | jack- | i see |
| 19:07.04 | jack- | but fink's openssl has its own libdir as well |
| 19:07.38 | jack- | (since there are 3 of them ... .96 .97 and .98.somealphaorbeta |
| 19:13.36 | jack- | you might want to use a newer libtool, in some future release :) |
| 19:14.05 | jack- | was the only reason why i needed to autoreconf the stuff |
| 19:15.00 | jack- | 1.5.22, weird |
| 19:15.15 | jack- | oh wait, after the autoreconf |
| 19:15.19 | jack- | one sec :p |
| 19:21.48 | jack- | root# brlcad-7.8.4/libtool --version |
| 19:21.48 | jack- | ltmain.sh (GNU libtool) 1.5 (1.1220 2003/04/05 19:32:58) |
| 19:22.09 | ``Erik | still a 1.5 *shrug* |
| 19:22.24 | jack- | yeah, but would you recommend 1.5a as well? :P |
| 19:22.30 | jack- | you know what i'm saying |
| 19:22.36 | jack- | 1.5.22 is about 2 years newer |
| 19:23.31 | jack- | 2.5, to be precise |
| 19:23.49 | ``Erik | <-- tends to be cautious about updating important things... reads changelogs and decides if he'll upgrade... given no problems being reported with that libtool, it doesn't seem important to upgrade just for the sake of staying on the bleeding edge |
| 19:23.59 | jack- | we (fink) got quite a few libtool fixes done by upstream, meanwhile ;) other folks as well |
| 19:24.21 | jack- | 1.5.22 isn't bleeding edge :) 1.6-svn-testmeplease is |
| 19:24.34 | jack- | 1.5.22 is the polished, perfect version of 1.5 |
| 19:24.56 | ``Erik | whoa, wait... |
| 19:25.13 | ``Erik | did you just call a gnu tool "polished" and "perfect"??? |
| 19:25.17 | ``Erik | :> |
| 19:25.20 | jack- | :P |
| 19:25.28 | jack- | as much as it can be, at least |
| 19:25.40 | jack- | there happened a LOT of fixing from 1.5a to 1.5.22, believe me |
| 19:27.18 | jack- | and btw, take my problem report serious plz :) the shipped libtool fucks up badly on osX |
| 19:34.27 | jack- | ;) |
| 19:34.43 | jack- | it's one of the most cursed things in #fink, don't worry |
| 19:35.28 | ``Erik | http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=105292 |
| 19:35.32 | jack- | but you know what, i still like autoconf/automake anyway |
| 19:35.43 | jack- | cause scons, waf and all that shit just sucks donkey balls |
| 19:35.48 | ``Erik | automake is dandy *shrug* |
| 19:36.00 | ``Erik | heh |
| 19:36.11 | ``Erik | brlcad used to use something called "cake" |
| 19:36.24 | ``Erik | <-- got the joy of converting to automake when he was new to the project :) |
| 19:36.29 | jack- | glad you switched ;) |
| 19:36.45 | jack- | thx for that link btw |
| 19:40.27 | clock_ | Do you know that kind if white marker you put over something written with ink and it makes the ink invisible |
| 19:40.43 | clock_ | and when you attempt to write over that place with fountain pen again, it will be also erased? |
| 19:41.22 | jack- | yeah |
| 19:41.29 | jack- | tipp-ex here |
| 19:44.25 | clock_ | no tippex is kinda a lacquer |
| 19:44.36 | clock_ | this is what contains trasparent fluid that chemically reacts with the ink |
| 19:44.41 | clock_ | so the paper looks like new |
| 19:44.55 | clock_ | but if you write over it, it will react again and the pen will not leave a trace in that place |
| 19:47.13 | jack- | oh |
| 19:47.15 | jack- | i see |
| 19:47.38 | jack- | doesn't work with all inks i bet, but nice anyway |
| 19:47.51 | jack- | good for fooling people |
| 19:48.52 | clock_ | it works with the ordinary ink |
| 19:49.05 | clock_ | looks like a permanent marker, but the tip is white and moist |
| 21:14.15 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (i=docelic@ri01-198.dialin.iskon.hr) |
| 21:34.49 | Maloeran | Cool, there's an U.S. patent on the concept of making a cat chase the light spot of a hand-held laser |
| 23:43.33 | brlcad | mm.. korean food and mt dew |
| 23:44.00 | ``Erik | o.O |
| 23:46.47 | brlcad | shouldn't set or need to set BRLCAD_ROOT unless it's relocated |
| 23:55.02 | ``Erik | when's the next optimal time to break thing horribly, er, I mean, uh, the next slush for a release? |