| 00:08.20 | ``Erik | *yawrn* |
| 00:11.04 | yukonbob | ~lart yawning |
| 00:11.04 | ibot | executes killall -KILL yawning |
| 01:10.50 | *** part/#brlcad nollan (i=nollan@bnc.kostar.5kr.hos.egn.se) |
| 01:25.13 | *** join/#brlcad jack|ass (n=jack@c-67-189-104-216.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 01:26.29 | jack|ass | Is there a list of prerequisites for BRL? I'm trying to compile 7.10.2 and get an error about it expecting a specifier-quantifier-list before XVisualInfo in dm_obj.c. |
| 01:26.41 | jack|ass | I do have the xutil-dev package installed though. |
| 01:32.51 | ``Erik | there are prereqs, btu most have the source included in src/other |
| 01:33.10 | ``Erik | if you're getting an X11 error, it's probably a bug in our ocnifgure :( |
| 01:33.59 | jack|ass | it looks like it's including the source. :-/ |
| 01:34.03 | jack|ass | that's what I was afraid of. |
| 01:36.35 | jack|ass | I'm looking for something kinda like autocad to do some simple modeling of a wooden project box. BRL looks like it fits the bill. |
| 01:36.36 | jack|ass | AH. |
| 01:36.37 | jack|ass | got it. |
| 01:37.04 | jack|ass | the configure script that it comes with was the culprit methinks. I re-read the documentation and ran autogen to make it create one for my system. |
| 01:37.51 | jack|ass | I wonder if removing the configure file by default to force people to run autogen might prevent people compiling from source from hitting that? |
| 02:41.52 | yukonbob | ``Erik: you much details about the bwish command, specifically, what it offers over the typical wish? |
| 02:42.30 | yukonbob | s/you much/you know/ |
| 02:50.07 | brlcad | it has the brl-cad built-in commands & libs preloaded |
| 02:50.25 | brlcad | e.g. itcl/itk/iwidgets/... are all preloaded |
| 02:50.35 | brlcad | as well as some brl-cad-specific commands |
| 02:50.41 | brlcad | bu_brlcad_data . for example |
| 05:13.20 | yukonbob | I'm looking at setting it up as a loadable module -- I've got it loading w/o error, but haven't exported the commands... |
| 05:13.59 | yukonbob | that way I hope to be able to use the canonical wish/tclsh and have it Just Work(tm) |
| 05:15.47 | yukonbob | *where "setting it up" == setting up libtclcad |
| 05:24.06 | *** join/#brlcad tarzeau (i=gurkan@bee.ethz.ch) |
| 05:27.33 | brlcad | cool, that's be awesome |
| 05:28.16 | brlcad | the big one is automatically setting up autopath -- it needs to do that onload .. and to load it, though, it needs the auto_path :) |
| 05:28.22 | brlcad | interesting to hear how you deal with that :) |
| 07:20.50 | *** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 07:55.52 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@195.37.106.60) |
| 08:26.40 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: is reverse perspective possible in BRL-CAD? |
| 08:27.29 | Z80-Boy | i. e. instead of shooting parallel rays (no perspective, isometric) or divergent rays (perspective), shooting convergent rays? |
| 11:35.32 | ``Erik | the rt front end doesn't have anything like that, but there's nothing stopping the libraries... just requires some code laid down :/ |
| 11:44.58 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslb-088-070-030-082.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 11:51.00 | *** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@203-59-180-167.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 12:19.22 | Maloeran | http://www.rayforce.net/doom0.jpg http://www.rayforce.net/doom1.jpg etc. In case anyone is curious of the friendly and simple marriage |
| 12:20.08 | Maloeran | Thanks Erik :) |
| 12:20.24 | Maloeran | http://www.rayforce.net/doom4.jpg Wedding cake, yar |
| 12:20.50 | ``Erik | so you actually bothered with a ceremony instead of just eloping? |
| 12:21.09 | Maloeran | It was somewhat required, but it lasts about 3 minutes |
| 12:21.39 | ``Erik | I thought the US legal varient was just walking up to a counter and signing some paper and forking over $20 |
| 12:21.51 | Maloeran | Oh, we married in Montreal |
| 12:22.30 | ``Erik | when my brother got married, they did a ceremony with a wiccan priestess at a haunted hotel, cuz they're nerds... then we threw 'em in the car and drove 'em by city hall and they walked in and walked out a couple minutes later legal, then off to pizza and beer O.o |
| 12:22.40 | Maloeran | Then we went to some nice chalet I had rented, with friends for the week-end |
| 12:22.52 | Maloeran | Cute :) |
| 12:23.02 | ``Erik | get this, they found a wiccan priestess and haunted hotel... in arkansas... that held their wedding on halloween. |
| 12:23.08 | ``Erik | in arkansas. |
| 12:23.15 | ``Erik | without any lynchings |
| 12:23.17 | ``Erik | *boggle* |
| 12:23.43 | Maloeran | Mmhm. I think things are a bit more strict in Montreal regarding what a legal marriage is |
| 12:23.43 | Z80-Boy | Maloeran: are you the guy in the pictures? |
| 12:23.47 | ``Erik | (of course, the town is an "art town" with a big halloween tradition and major blgt turnout, the rednecks would've been outnumbered) |
| 12:23.48 | Maloeran | Yes Z80-Boy |
| 12:23.55 | ``Erik | yeah, I think mal is the one in the brown dress |
| 12:24.07 | ``Erik | hahaha |
| 12:24.28 | Maloeran | Well you are in luck, this is not quite a "true" marriage :) |
| 12:24.30 | ``Erik | cover your hiney, alexis, karel is lookin' for lovin' :D *duck* |
| 12:24.40 | Z80-Boy | alexis? |
| 12:24.49 | Maloeran | In french, it's a male name |
| 12:25.01 | Z80-Boy | I know another guy called alexis and he's very cute |
| 12:25.23 | ``Erik | yes, most masculine words in french are feminine in other languages *cough* O:-) |
| 12:25.45 | Z80-Boy | Maloeran: no worries, you obviously suffer from the women attraction syndrome |
| 12:25.54 | ``Erik | (and in german, the feminine stuff is so masculine it has beards and well fucking beat your ass down) |
| 12:26.03 | Maloeran | What's that "syndrome" exactly, Z80-Boy? |
| 12:26.10 | Maloeran | Oh nevermind, I get it |
| 12:26.21 | Z80-Boy | well it usually starts on the primary school with a preoccupation towards girls |
| 12:26.30 | Z80-Boy | and ends up in horrible things like marriage etc. |
| 12:26.46 | Z80-Boy | It's so common they didn't even bother to put it into DSM-IV |
| 12:27.02 | ``Erik | hum, I don't think marriage is so bad... |
| 12:27.05 | Maloeran | Right. I'm still a bit sleepy from that week-end... She actually managed to get me to drink quite a bit, for the first time in my life |
| 12:27.11 | Z80-Boy | There are only 2 ways out of marriage - a divorce or death |
| 12:27.23 | Z80-Boy | Maloeran: I'm just joking... |
| 12:27.39 | ``Erik | I even 'belong' to a local organization fighting for blgt rights for marraige, even though I'm straight *shrug* |
| 12:28.41 | ``Erik | um, I'm sure if you'd go outside, you could find a boytoy pretty easily |
| 12:28.43 | ``Erik | :) |
| 12:29.16 | Z80-Boy | yeah but I don't want a boytoy |
| 12:29.17 | Maloeran | I really don't know much on the topic, but I would assume that things should be fairly simple between two guys |
| 12:29.31 | Z80-Boy | yeah getting a guy for sex is quite easy |
| 12:29.38 | Z80-Boy | you don't have to do anything for it at all |
| 12:29.49 | ``Erik | I mean, I barely ever step out, and have been "up on" on too many women in the last couple years |
| 12:30.08 | Z80-Boy | I was once in a shower room in a swimming pool and it was end of the opening time and the showers were broken so I had to go from one to another to get the last bit of warm water |
| 12:30.24 | Maloeran | Eh Erik, it's much rarer for me |
| 12:30.32 | Z80-Boy | there was another guy and when I got to him he misinterpreted it as a signal and tried to simply grab my dick |
| 12:30.40 | Maloeran | I think it's related to a complete lack of skills to "flirt" or whatever |
| 12:30.56 | ``Erik | between that, 'world of warcraft', and getting upset at work and drinking myself fucktarded |
| 12:30.59 | ``Erik | heh |
| 12:31.00 | Z80-Boy | Fortunately my reflex was faste so he didn't manage to touch me |
| 12:31.21 | Maloeran | That's a bit disturbing, Z80-Boy, way too quick and spontaneous |
| 12:31.25 | Z80-Boy | Maloeran: it's related to the simple skill of not being picky |
| 12:31.55 | Z80-Boy | Maloeran: but that's how it works between gays |
| 12:31.59 | Maloeran | I think it's mostly related to the fact that I don't meet new girls at all in my daily routine |
| 12:32.06 | Z80-Boy | if you like each other and want to have just sex there is no barrier |
| 12:32.06 | Maloeran | I see. |
| 12:32.21 | Z80-Boy | you don't have to buy flower movie tickets dinners nothing |
| 12:32.21 | ``Erik | you can get that with girls easily enough |
| 12:32.54 | ``Erik | the risk is if you stick with 'em too long |
| 12:33.00 | ``Erik | hit 'em and ditch 'em *cough* O:-) |
| 12:33.08 | ``Erik | ooh, 3some, nice |
| 12:33.09 | Z80-Boy | The problem is I don't want just sex |
| 12:33.15 | Maloeran | No Erik, I'm not going :) |
| 12:33.20 | ``Erik | ... |
| 12:33.40 | ``Erik | so, uh, your wedding gift... is... to send your chick and her lesbo lover to a spa... |
| 12:33.41 | ``Erik | um |
| 12:33.45 | ``Erik | you may've fucked up |
| 12:33.46 | Maloeran | Ahah |
| 12:33.51 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: lol |
| 12:34.28 | Z80-Boy | and to do the "flirting" stuff... omg that's so boring |
| 12:34.42 | Z80-Boy | talking about nothing going to boring places like cafeterias.. |
| 12:35.18 | Z80-Boy | or like going to gay student "evenings with dinner" |
| 12:35.20 | Maloeran | Erik, again, this is mostly an arranged mariage ; we are close and very good friends, but not quite up to the "spouse" status except in the legal sense |
| 12:35.35 | Z80-Boy | You have basically 20-30 quite intelligent gay students which are either too ugly or not intelligent enough |
| 12:35.40 | ``Erik | I know, I'm just mockin' ya :D |
| 12:35.46 | Z80-Boy | Plus all of them are, without an exception, boring |
| 12:35.49 | ``Erik | sorry, I've been drinkin' this morning *cough* |
| 12:35.58 | Z80-Boy | talk about politics, travel their studies and parents etc. |
| 12:36.35 | Maloeran | Z80-Boy, I actually greatly enjoy such times with my "wife" |
| 12:36.39 | Z80-Boy | Maloeran: so you don't have to care about if your bed frame is strong enough to withstand the dynamic load? |
| 12:36.42 | *** join/#brlcad elite01_ (n=elite01@dslb-088-070-003-100.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 12:36.59 | Maloeran | Z80-Boy, probably not on a regular basis. Besides, I'm soon leaving for Australia for a month ( alone ) |
| 12:37.34 | Maloeran | Z80-Boy, the things you describe are the foundations of friendship |
| 12:37.46 | Z80-Boy | Maloeran: doing boring stuff together? |
| 12:38.12 | Maloeran | If you ever want something more than casual and brief encounters, you may want to explore the kind of activities that would lead to real friendship |
| 12:38.21 | Z80-Boy | which are? |
| 12:38.46 | Maloeran | Restaurants, talking about a variety of topics, about any kind of activity done together? |
| 12:38.52 | Z80-Boy | omg |
| 12:38.55 | Z80-Boy | better be alone there |
| 12:38.59 | Z80-Boy | then |
| 12:39.09 | Z80-Boy | anything but restaurants please |
| 12:39.25 | Maloeran | Then cook together |
| 12:41.17 | Z80-Boy | that needs a stove |
| 12:41.22 | Z80-Boy | and stove is usually in a flat |
| 12:41.33 | Z80-Boy | and it's not a good idea to stick untrusted people into your flat right? |
| 12:42.56 | Maloeran | I assume you generally have met the person once or twice before that point, but I don't really see a problem with that |
| 12:43.01 | Z80-Boy | and then I can imagine all the exchanges like "hey you left sticky spots on the kitchen floor", "the kitchen tiles are yucky", "you poured water on the bathroom floor", "you should sweep the living room", "there are black smudge marks on the balcony from your experiments" etc. |
| 12:43.31 | Z80-Boy | you should turn the computer off overnight the fan sound is disturbing me... |
| 12:44.42 | Z80-Boy | your electric home trainer is really crazy you should throw it into trash... |
| 12:44.54 | Z80-Boy | you spend too much time on ronja development and too little time with me... |
| 12:45.14 | Z80-Boy | I want chairs like this and you want chairs like that... |
| 12:45.45 | Z80-Boy | good that gays at least don't have to have children |
| 12:45.48 | Maloeran | I don't think you'll receive comments like that just for inviting a friend to cook and eat together |
| 12:46.08 | Z80-Boy | no but I mean like in the relationship |
| 12:49.05 | Maloeran | For some reason... I imagine it can be awkward to develop true friendship with guys, nothing more, when you are gay |
| 12:49.36 | Z80-Boy | no it's easy |
| 12:49.50 | Z80-Boy | I just can't find anyone who's both pretty and like a friend with me |
| 12:50.07 | Z80-Boy | I know loads of hetero guy who if they were gay and wanted me I would just jump on them |
| 12:50.30 | Z80-Boy | if they like computer electronics DIY etc. then it's fine |
| 12:51.36 | Maloeran | Ah yes, the population pool to pick from is smaller |
| 12:51.49 | Z80-Boy | and everyone is camp and boring ;-) |
| 12:51.53 | Z80-Boy | I hate camp |
| 12:52.01 | Maloeran | So do I Erik, but I think they all are the girlfriend of a friend :) |
| 12:52.41 | ``Erik | and I have a few gay friends *shrug* there's no issue as long as both parties accept there's no romantic possibility |
| 12:52.53 | Z80-Boy | I was in a dance club and it was fun except that |
| 12:52.56 | Z80-Boy | - it was too loud |
| 12:53.04 | Z80-Boy | - there was smoke instead of air |
| 12:53.11 | ``Erik | heh, I wear earplugs when I go to concerts :( I'm lame |
| 12:53.20 | Z80-Boy | - the people looked like they are pretending they are having fun but they are actually dead bored |
| 12:53.31 | ``Erik | and I get upset when they give me the guinness in a fucking plastic cup |
| 12:53.32 | Z80-Boy | - everyone looked like exactly the kind of personality I don't want |
| 12:53.41 | Maloeran | Ahah Z80-Boy |
| 12:53.51 | ``Erik | but when ya got children jumping around like idiots, it's probably better to have plastic... broken glass ain't so fun |
| 12:53.53 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: no you just aren't recklessly abandon stupid about your health |
| 12:54.24 | ``Erik | I d'no, I've managed to do a number on my health |
| 12:54.52 | Z80-Boy | Skatepark is fun |
| 12:54.53 | ``Erik | I cut off a finger, I rolled a car, I eat too much red meat and don't eat enough vegetables, I drink too much booze, I jam on my own guitar without earplugs... |
| 12:55.00 | Z80-Boy | people there are not aggressive and they are helpful |
| 12:55.07 | ``Erik | but I have tenitis in my right ear from having tubes several times as an infant |
| 12:55.09 | Z80-Boy | they smoke but you don't have to breath the smoke |
| 12:55.25 | ``Erik | so loud becomes physically painful in my right ear, when just loud in my left |
| 12:55.32 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: I have tenitis too and just from nothing |
| 12:56.05 | Z80-Boy | o rmaybe it's an actute life-threatening hypochondria |
| 12:56.06 | Maloeran | What's a tenitis? Wikipedia doesn't know, therefore it doesn't exist |
| 12:56.10 | Z80-Boy | tinnitus |
| 12:56.14 | Z80-Boy | it's ringing in ear |
| 12:56.29 | Maloeran | Ah, thanks |
| 12:56.47 | Z80-Boy | the ear has like acousto-neural resonant circuits which are tuned just below the oscillations and the gain is controlled by downward path from the brain |
| 12:56.49 | ``Erik | mine sounds kinda staticky, almost like hearing your blood flow in your ear |
| 12:56.54 | Z80-Boy | if the control signal is wrong it starts oscillating |
| 12:57.04 | ``Erik | and it's really set off by the frequency that vaccuum cleaners happen to emit |
| 12:57.09 | Z80-Boy | after you get drunk when you are exhausted when you don't sleep enough when you damage the ear etc. |
| 12:57.32 | Z80-Boy | But it makes sense. Every sensitive amplifier ends up producing noise |
| 12:57.36 | ``Erik | and only in the right ear :/ |
| 12:57.55 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: I have a crosstalk between the right jaw muscle and right ear |
| 12:57.55 | ``Erik | which actually sucks, cuz earbuds for phones are geared for the right ear |
| 12:58.04 | Maloeran | Erik, do you practice any physical activity on a regular basis? That would do much good too |
| 12:58.17 | Z80-Boy | if I tighten my jaw I hear quite strong tinnitus in right ear - like TV running, high pitch noise etc. |
| 12:58.27 | ``Erik | yes, I frequently do weight lifting. My forte is the 12 oz curl. |
| 12:58.39 | Z80-Boy | lol |
| 12:58.40 | ``Erik | though I've been heavy on the 1.5 oz lift |
| 12:58.46 | Maloeran | That's... a start, I think :) |
| 12:59.08 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: weight lifting is useless - I did it and I didn't get any boyfriend from that |
| 12:59.19 | Z80-Boy | The problem is not that they don't want me. The problem is I don't want them. |
| 12:59.30 | ``Erik | hum, may be a cultural skew here... |
| 12:59.34 | Z80-Boy | Maloeran: OMG my heart would probably explode in a nuclear detonation |
| 12:59.45 | ``Erik | if I said "pint curl", would it change the meaning for you? |
| 13:00.10 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: at least you don't pretend yourself you want to spend the whole life in a gym to make sure your body would look nice in the coffin |
| 13:00.30 | ``Erik | muscle needs upkeep, or it turns to fat |
| 13:00.47 | ``Erik | and I've always had a LOT more respect for gymnast muscles than body builder muscles |
| 13:01.00 | Maloeran | Z80-Boy, I hope not all your activities are about "getting a boyfriend" |
| 13:01.01 | ``Erik | not much to look at, but the performance through the range is damn impressive |
| 13:01.05 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: don't worry the undertaker can cutt your beer belly off with a chainsaw if the coffin lid timber should break through |
| 13:01.12 | ``Erik | heh |
| 13:01.33 | ``Erik | I'm 68 kg, I can fit in the pine box. |
| 13:01.34 | Z80-Boy | Maloeran: no - I figured out getting a boyfriend requires sacrificing more fun that an estimated fun outcome |
| 13:01.56 | Maloeran | Being in good physical shape makes you feel much better, it's a matter of chemistry, it's not related to your appearance or what other people think |
| 13:02.10 | Z80-Boy | yeah but feeling better doesn't get me a boyfriend |
| 13:02.36 | Maloeran | Nice Erik, I would have assumed more than 68kg ( no offense meant ). I'm 64kg |
| 13:03.19 | Z80-Boy | Maloeran: at least you don't have to mount a double skateboard deck on the trucks |
| 13:03.29 | ``Erik | last time I went to the jungle gym, I got on the bench and was able to push 130 lbs several times, so I don't feel too terrible about my shape |
| 13:03.57 | Maloeran | Yes, probably so |
| 13:04.01 | ``Erik | but less dense... more fat, less muscle :D |
| 13:04.10 | Z80-Boy | I went to a gym and then I was cleaning the heating pipes and I thought my hand falls off and I lose consciousness |
| 13:04.20 | Maloeran | I think so too :). I can do one arm pull-ups for example, too much wall and rock climbing |
| 13:04.21 | Z80-Boy | I mean all those bicepses and tricepses are absolutely useless |
| 13:04.33 | Z80-Boy | When you want to do real work you feel like a cripple anyway |
| 13:04.43 | ``Erik | "cleaning the heating pipes"? um, ... if that's not a double entendre... |
| 13:04.48 | ``Erik | O:-) |
| 13:04.54 | Z80-Boy | lol no |
| 13:05.16 | ``Erik | <-- cannot do a 1 arm pullup or lift |
| 13:05.22 | Z80-Boy | there was some sticky oily stuff on it probably the heating liquid |
| 13:05.25 | ``Erik | I don't think so, anyways |
| 13:05.36 | ``Erik | I mean, last time I tried, I was only benching like 70lbs |
| 13:05.46 | Z80-Boy | If I go to gym and train bicepses the result is exactly as if I don't train them |
| 13:05.51 | Maloeran | Erik, as long as you can at least pull up with 2 arms.. :) |
| 13:05.57 | Z80-Boy | I can lift always only the same weight the same amount of times |
| 13:06.08 | Maloeran | Z80-Boy, lifting weight is boring, try wall and rock climbing |
| 13:06.09 | ``Erik | I'm a lot stronger now than when I actually exercised, for some strange reason |
| 13:06.25 | ``Erik | but I lack the endurance I used to have, especially cardiovascular |
| 13:06.25 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: as long as you are able to topple over into a coffin, you are in an acceptable physical shape ;-) |
| 13:07.14 | ``Erik | I used to run a 2 mile track and do some aggressive greenway biking |
| 13:07.15 | Z80-Boy | 2 mile omg my heart would probably explode |
| 13:07.15 | ``Erik | now I mostly move couches and tables to clean |
| 13:07.15 | Z80-Boy | my anaerobic threshold is after 50 metres |
| 13:07.34 | Maloeran | That... could be improved |
| 13:07.37 | ``Erik | z80: run it slow and keep going... |
| 13:07.42 | ``Erik | walk if needed |
| 13:07.56 | ``Erik | but do a distance, and do it slow... build up speed over time |
| 13:08.11 | ``Erik | sprinting 50m and stopping is useless :D |
| 13:08.50 | Z80-Boy | If I took a computer with me I could even maybe convince myself to continue |
| 13:08.55 | Z80-Boy | strap a laptop on my neck... |
| 13:09.00 | ``Erik | y'know, I bought running shows intent on tackling the greenway I freakin' live on... but I've more or less burnt them out as casual wear |
| 13:09.02 | Z80-Boy | then it could even be non-boring :) |
| 13:09.23 | ``Erik | um |
| 13:09.39 | ``Erik | I soemtimes think code |
| 13:09.48 | Z80-Boy | good idea |
| 13:09.53 | ``Erik | if I spend more time typing than thinking, I'm using the wrong language |
| 13:10.01 | Maloeran | I find it very hard to think when doing any intense physical activity |
| 13:10.02 | ``Erik | or working on the wrong problems |
| 13:10.15 | ``Erik | a light jog isn't too intense... :D |
| 13:10.23 | ``Erik | or bike riding |
| 13:11.02 | ``Erik | when I was on the trail, I could push up to 30mph and still have free cycles... it was when I was off road that I needed to focus... |
| 13:11.18 | ``Erik | going down hills that actually threw the rfeakin' chain off the derailer |
| 13:11.33 | ``Erik | another car door and stitches? :> |
| 13:11.39 | Maloeran | She's dangerous emotionally and profesionally to me, but it seems even physically |
| 13:12.00 | Maloeran | Eh no, I was distracted and bumped through a big hole I didn't see |
| 13:12.08 | ``Erik | heh |
| 13:12.21 | ``Erik | but not 'stop the front wheel' big? |
| 13:12.34 | ``Erik | just 'bust the boys on the seat' big? |
| 13:12.40 | Maloeran | Not quite, but enough to lose balance when you aren't expecting that kind of bump |
| 13:12.59 | Maloeran | Especially with just one hand on the handles... |
| 13:13.54 | Maloeran | Tsk! Pointing left to show the way to go :) |
| 13:14.40 | ``Erik | yeah, uh |
| 13:14.43 | ``Erik | words are good, too. |
| 13:15.13 | Maloeran | We went to try fancy wedding dresses for almost 2 hours that day, although she finally decided against the idea, and dresses casually at the wedding as you could see |
| 13:15.22 | Maloeran | and dressed* |
| 13:15.43 | ``Erik | yeah, heh |
| 13:15.50 | ``Erik | nudists have it figured out. I'm envious. :D |
| 13:17.13 | Maloeran | Ah :) |
| 13:17.31 | ``Erik | is... that... a... pig? ... |
| 13:17.42 | ``Erik | and a goat? |
| 13:17.43 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 13:17.44 | Maloeran | Yup! |
| 13:18.02 | Maloeran | We wanted to do horseback riding during the week-end, but it looks like we should have made a reservation |
| 13:18.25 | ``Erik | and a slew of landscapes |
| 13:18.29 | Maloeran | So we went rock climbing on easy tracks without any gear |
| 13:18.35 | ``Erik | annnndddd it ends |
| 13:18.57 | ``Erik | 18 pics, half landscape... lame :) |
| 13:19.03 | ``Erik | </haxx0r> |
| 13:19.23 | Maloeran | Ah :). She doesn't like me taking pictures of her |
| 13:19.50 | ``Erik | and no nudies of the girl |
| 13:19.53 | ``Erik | O:-) |
| 13:22.10 | ``Erik | opposed to cmd 2>&1 > file |
| 13:24.08 | ``Erik | I'm annoyed at how autoconf subconfigure re-tests a lot of boilerplate shit instead of using a cache file |
| 13:25.22 | ``Erik | heh |
| 13:25.40 | ``Erik | sorry |
| 13:25.54 | ``Erik | updating the fbsd port of bugle... it does a subconfig |
| 13:28.13 | ``Erik | so, uh, mal... for data manip, you'd take C over compiled lithp? O.o |
| 13:29.41 | ``Erik | lithp pairs with gc give you the ability to do any data structure trivially... at C speeds with the right compiler... O.o |
| 13:30.23 | Maloeran | I would take C over anything, for flexibility and performance. Other languages might be more convenient, but my very high comfort with C makes it very difficult to beat |
| 13:30.37 | Maloeran | Perhaps if I had as much experience with Lisp as with C, I would use it more |
| 13:30.46 | ``Erik | ah, but if you always take the most comfortable option |
| 13:30.50 | ``Erik | how will you ever grow? |
| 13:31.43 | ``Erik | now I'm no lithp guru, I'm more into scheme in that vein... but when I see a problem that cl looks.. right... I won't dismiss it otu of hand |
| 13:32.03 | Maloeran | Oh, I explore other options, but I'm not convinced that Lithp would be more appropriate than C, even if I was as fluent with both |
| 13:32.04 | ``Erik | I have to admit, I saw a problem where I thought ruby was optimal... but I was wrong. |
| 13:32.13 | Maloeran | Eheh |
| 13:32.16 | ``Erik | at 95%, I was seriously feeling like scheme would've been far better |
| 13:32.44 | ``Erik | probably fixable issues, but they were all minor gotchas |
| 13:33.00 | ``Erik | and I got ok results in a fraction of te time that just the book keeping in C would've taken :) |
| 13:33.52 | ``Erik | and over the last couple of days, I've been looking at a program that I'd originally written in scheme, then re-wrote in C |
| 13:33.59 | ``Erik | and I'm wondering if I made a mistake in doing that |
| 13:34.07 | ``Erik | and I should quit starting lines iwth and. |
| 13:34.37 | ``Erik | perhaps if I were more familiar with something like glib.... |
| 13:35.01 | ``Erik | I'm tired of re-writing a linked list module. or tweaking one I carry from elsewhere |
| 13:35.26 | Maloeran | I have always reused that piece of code for 5 years, never needed tweaking |
| 13:35.44 | ``Erik | and I'm repulsed by the blind cast linked list style |
| 13:36.02 | ``Erik | I tried to kill it in BRL-CAD, but lee whined and said it wasn't really an issue |
| 13:36.03 | Maloeran | Tsk! I love void pointers and memory addressing magic |
| 13:36.14 | ``Erik | I watched freebsd go through serious pain to eliminate it from the kenrel |
| 13:36.46 | ``Erik | when it's right, it's ok... but it lends itself to a miscast which can seg or bus out |
| 13:37.14 | ``Erik | and I'm so damn perfect at coding that I know I'm not perfect at coding, pheer the zen. |
| 13:39.56 | ``Erik | aight dudes, ponder... |
| 13:40.10 | ``Erik | a huge csg type tree/graph... tons of ors up top |
| 13:40.25 | ``Erik | finding a subset that is mostly ands with some ors... |
| 13:40.38 | ``Erik | I'm thinking the first cut would be reduction |
| 13:41.02 | ``Erik | make a copy of the tree with everything not in te needle eliminated from the haystack |
| 13:41.21 | ``Erik | thus reducing the search space significantly in O(n) |
| 13:41.26 | ``Erik | thoughts? |
| 13:42.16 | Maloeran | What's the big picture of the problem? |
| 13:42.36 | ``Erik | um |
| 13:43.01 | Maloeran | I don't really get "finding a subset" part |
| 13:43.51 | ``Erik | I have 8 zillion standardized minimal primitive parts (bolts, plate, etc)... I have this THING, made out of parts a and b and (c or d), what possible shelf component am I looking at, give me a minimal list of possibilities |
| 13:45.13 | ``Erik | does that clear up what problem I'm thinking about? :) |
| 13:46.00 | ``Erik | I think linear elimination is the best first whack |
| 13:46.17 | ``Erik | followed by a more additive method (mebbe even brute force) |
| 13:46.33 | ``Erik | I'd love to know why I'm wrong O.o :D |
| 13:46.55 | Maloeran | I would have to know quite a bit more about how you associate the THING's parts to the 8 zillion parts, and how the latter are organized... It may take a while to explain, and you probably have it mostly figured out |
| 13:47.22 | ``Erik | ok, the primitive parts are as minimal as you can get |
| 13:47.36 | ``Erik | in csg land, we can admit that they're, say, brlcad primitives |
| 13:47.49 | ``Erik | cylinders, spheres, torii, even bots |
| 13:48.16 | ``Erik | a standard, say, radio... contains a certain subset of those parts |
| 13:48.58 | ``Erik | now I have a random thing made up of low level parts... but I don't know what the thing is.... is it a radio? a wheel? I don't know... what's the minimal list for a human to choose from for what it could be? |
| 13:49.08 | ``Erik | (ignoring fully tesselated geometry) |
| 13:49.31 | ``Erik | (this is transliterated, of course... I'm not REALLY thinking about BRL-CAD geometry, it's my day off ;) |
| 13:49.53 | Maloeran | I got that part :) |
| 13:50.25 | ``Erik | an alternate approach would be if I was dorking with electronics, and wanted to make a circuit... I have a list of parts available, what's the set of possible circuits I could make |
| 13:51.04 | Maloeran | Thinking |
| 13:51.23 | ``Erik | I've thought, I think the first cut using elimination is ... probably optimal |
| 13:51.42 | ``Erik | assuming it cuts 10,000 to 100 |
| 13:51.59 | Maloeran | The question really is how to organize the 8 zillion parts for search to be quick |
| 13:52.18 | ``Erik | yes, I've thought about sorting to help cut |
| 13:52.32 | ``Erik | but I still think cut is the best first notion, generating a subtree |
| 13:52.32 | Maloeran | I would opt for a graph with many different kind of links between nodes, but there are many variations possible on the details |
| 13:52.39 | Maloeran | A tree, really? |
| 13:52.45 | ``Erik | well |
| 13:52.45 | ``Erik | dag |
| 13:53.04 | ``Erik | sorry, I'm used to dags being reduced to trees |
| 14:02.22 | Maloeran | Contributions have to be checked and validated, somehow |
| 14:02.25 | Maloeran | Oops. |
| 14:09.37 | brlcad | Maloeran: ehehe .. you look rather nervous there |
| 14:09.47 | ``Erik | uh |
| 14:09.54 | ``Erik | dude, do ya blame him? he got married O.o |
| 14:10.28 | Maloeran | :) Ahah |
| 14:10.36 | Maloeran | I think I was a bit nervous, yes |
| 14:22.34 | brlcad | especially since she's staring intently at you, and at least in those pictures you're intently NOT looking at her :) |
| 14:22.41 | ``Erik | *snrkt* |
| 14:23.01 | brlcad | classic "pretty girl is making me nervous" look |
| 14:23.06 | ``Erik | I didn't really notice that |
| 14:23.07 | ``Erik | hehehe |
| 14:23.24 | ``Erik | but in 0 and 1, yeah |
| 14:23.38 | Maloeran | I didn't notice either! But it makes sense, she asked that we face each other |
| 14:24.10 | ``Erik | oh yeah, um |
| 14:24.22 | Maloeran | Ahaha |
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| 15:08.05 | brlcad | mailbox .. almost .. cleaned .. out .. |
| 15:20.59 | ``Erik | heh |
| 15:50.14 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/query.c: don't blather the error message if the display cannot be opened. cleanup the logic a bit too to print a message if a detected type being tested for validity simply wasn't available during compilation. |
| 15:52.14 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07STABLE * 10brlcad/src/libdm/query.c: merge dm_bestXType fix in from head, this should quell the failure warnings that the m2 folks are seeing. |
| 15:56.09 | TommyLee | ``Erik: is it something classified? |
| 15:56.29 | brlcad | meh, they're a public influential customer -- for an issue like that it doesn't matter |
| 16:15.09 | ``Erik | they work in classified land, but technically they're not classified... |
| 16:15.28 | ``Erik | I'm just a puss when it comes to that stuff... |
| 16:43.14 | ``Erik | eh |
| 16:43.17 | ``Erik | heh |
| 16:43.18 | ``Erik | <PROTECTED> |
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| 17:38.04 | *** join/#brlcad Mark____ (n=chatzill@stemcell.med.utoronto.ca) |
| 17:39.20 | Mark____ | hello, n00b alert, sorry - anyone there? |
| 17:41.14 | Mark____ | anyways, I'm using BRL-CAD on windows, trying to make a gasket for standard biotech well plates. It works fine initially, but trying to facetize or convert to .STL format (the end goal, so I can print some objects) seems to become exponentially slower with the number of objects involved. |
| 17:41.20 | ``Erik | NO |
| 17:42.03 | ``Erik | the csg -> nmg conversion is something like O(n^3) bceause it attempts to preserve solidity |
| 17:44.07 | Mark____ | I am working with 96-well plates, and each well has a core volume, a countersink, a raised rim and one or two other bits, and it basically just doesn't work, it crashes before completing the conversion - is there any way around this problem? |
| 17:45.04 | Mark____ | (BTW I may be missing something obvious, I am very new at this e.g. about 1 week) |
| 17:52.16 | ``Erik | conversion? also, in cvs head, "clone" now works on v5 db's... |
| 17:53.08 | ``Erik | "basically just doesn't work" isn't terribly descriptive |
| 17:58.28 | Mark____ | sorry, I am also new to the vocabulary around this :) ... I have made the geometry I want as CSG, but I need to make an STL file so I can print the object. Unfortunately, as there are 96 * 4 minimal objects plus the common base block, whenever I try to convert to .STL format, (or just facetize the thing) I get (OBJ1 u OBJ2) and ((OBJ1 u OBJ2) u OBJ3) etc very quickly, but then it gets up... |
| 17:58.30 | Mark____ | ...around (((((((....)...)...)...)..) u OBJ 50) and gets slower and slower and slower - I would estimate the tesselation (is that the right word for this?) would take days if not weeks to complete |
| 18:01.07 | Mark____ | PS I didn't understand the "clone" reference - is that another way to make the objects so that it only tesselates them once and then copies afterwards? |
| 18:24.18 | ``Erik | it will be very very very slow, and the (()) stuff is related to tesselation, it's not necessarily bad |
| 18:25.08 | ``Erik | clone is if you have an object and if you want many more (a deep copy, even), it'll do it... that's something I just fixed in the last week or two :) |
| 18:33.47 | Mark____ | OK, thanks - so just so I'm clear on this, there is basically no way around this and I will just need to bite the bullet and burn a lot of CPU cycles - is that accurate? |
| 18:35.57 | Mark____ | also - would it be a Bad Thing if I were to try to fake it by tesselating one object and then making a script to duplicate that 96 times (with modified XY coords) in the STL file? |
| 18:54.34 | ``Erik | yes, nmg will take some monsterous cpu. |
| 18:54.55 | ``Erik | seriously O(n^3) |
| 18:55.06 | ``Erik | sorry :( |
| 19:42.53 | Mark____ | OK, thanks. How do people deal with this issue in industry etc? Is it a general CAD limitation, or something specific to BRL-CAD / CSG modelling? |
| 20:19.37 | Mark____ | also, what does the n in O(n^3) refer to? triangles, or CSG primitives? e.g. is there any way to fool it by segmenting the part and somehow combining the segments at the end? |
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| 20:39.42 | brlcad | awesome, the new canon scanner does a pretty good job .. and fast |
| 20:40.06 | brlcad | might actually have sharable pdf's of the STEP standard before the end of the week |
| 20:41.07 | brlcad | Mark____: it's a general CAD limitation for the most part |
| 20:41.39 | brlcad | the O(n^3) refers to the amount of effort it takes to continually re-guarantee that the object that will result from the facetization process is, in fact, still a solid geometry object |
| 20:42.10 | brlcad | and that limitation is predominantly BRL-CAD specific, a inefficiency detail of the implementation approach |
| 20:44.24 | brlcad | breaking the tessellation task up into multiple object will save you loads of time, there are probably a few other "work-around" methods too, but letting it burn the cpu cycles is probably the easiest approach -- anything else is likely going to be manpower cycles that are more than the cpu cycles |
| 20:45.07 | brlcad | nothing wrong with tessellating one object and duplicating it -- you can do that inside brl-cad too, run 'facetize' command, then clone/copy the object N times |
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| 20:48.46 | Mark____ | OK, I will try that - once it has facetized an object though, does it re-tesselate it for the STL conversion, or just use the same triangles it has already made? |
| 20:50.06 | ``Erik | no, nmg gives bots, the bots are spewed to stl |
| 20:54.46 | Mark____ | also, what is the best way to select an object from the command line? I am having trouble with the Build Pattern tool (Error: invalid command name "pattern_control"), so I have resorted to little scripts, but I can't figure out how to select and copy from the command line |
| 20:56.42 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r274 10/trunk/ICPA/: Start the project |
| 20:59.36 | Mark____ | OK, I have to go offline for a bit, thanks very much for your help! - Mark |
| 21:07.25 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r275 10/trunk/ICPA/ (14 files in 7 dirs): stubs. |
| 21:25.14 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r276 10/trunk/ICPA/ (10 files in 5 dirs): |
| 21:25.14 | CIA-4 | libirc: initial engine stub |
| 21:25.14 | CIA-4 | libirc: VC71 build system |
| 22:45.00 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r277 10/trunk/ICPA/ (9 files in 6 dirs): stubs for the 4 main components. |
| 22:52.09 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r278 10/trunk/libirc/src/IRCUserManager.cpp: ++ the copy of the iterator, not the one we are copying |
| 22:52.37 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/gqa.sh: exit, not return |
| 23:40.32 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r279 10/trunk/libirc/src/ (4 files): make sure all the erase functions don't assume a returned iterator, and do a proper iter increment. |
| 23:53.03 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r280 10/trunk/libirc/src/ (IRCClient.cpp IRCServer.cpp): do reverse order deletion instead of iteration for vectors. |
