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| 12:25.11 | xgmx | hi |
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| 13:21.09 | ertugerata | hi ; salut |
| 13:22.44 | ertugerata | mged error : need Tcl 8.5 ? i have 8.5b2 |
| 13:23.40 | ertugerata | Tcl 8.5 in source brlcd ? |
| 13:32.35 | ertugerata | Tcl 8.5 in source brlcad ? |
| 13:34.02 | ertugerata | Itcl_Init error version conflict for package "Tcl": have 8.5b2, need exactly 8.5 |
| 13:34.02 | ertugerata | Tcl_Import error unknown namespace in import pattern "::itcl::*" |
| 14:05.31 | brlcad | ertugerata: that is one of the errors I'm looking at right now. itcl has directives that make it want a *specific* version of tcl making it really hard to use a system tcl |
| 14:07.02 | ertugerata | system itcl and system tcl my opts |
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| 20:22.24 | ertugerata | hi ; salut |
| 20:22.57 | ertugerata | brlcad i have mged problems with Tcl and itcl |
| 20:56.23 | tarzeau | Elapsed installation time: 1 hour, 51 minutes, 3 seconds |
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| 21:37.13 | ertugerata | brlcad: in source version itcl ? |
| 21:41.26 | yukonbob | ertugerata: what OS are you using? |
| 21:45.06 | ertugerata | linux, pardus distro |
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| 21:52.22 | yukonbob | ?pardus ... /me looks this up... |
| 21:53.39 | ertugerata | www.pardus.org.tr |
| 21:53.39 | yukonbob | does PiSi offer itcl? |
| 21:53.55 | ertugerata | yes |
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| 21:54.00 | ertugerata | in contrib depo |
| 21:54.40 | ertugerata | i m first packager de itcl |
| 21:57.58 | ertugerata | yukonbob: distro ? |
| 21:58.45 | yukonbob | netbsd, but it doesn't matter what distro you use as long as you get your packages to work within the constraints you have --ie: if debian, use dpkg to fix your system up; if redhat, use the RPMs, etc. etc. |
| 22:00.59 | yukonbob | I'm using tcl/tk 8.4 too, btw -- I'd encourage anybody who's curious enough to try the same -- tcl/tk 8.4.x is the latest non-beta tcl, and is far more widely distributed than 8.5... not to mention that there's much more software built against 8.4 than 8.5, so one may have requirements to have 8.4 on the system anyway... |
| 22:02.55 | ``Erik | hrm, any issues with using 84? |
| 22:03.06 | yukonbob | not that I've encountered so far |
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| 22:07.32 | yukonbob | it's _infinately_ better in my situation -- I use tcl/tk for my work, so I've got an interest in having a working, supported tcl/tk, and 8.4.x is the one that qualifies in that regard... I never really even got 8.5 to install the way I wanted on my system anyway... and I want to utilize my package management as much as possible -- 8.4 is supported, as well as many, many extensions... 8.5, not so much. (and installing so much "cruft" under the guise of |
| 22:08.03 | yukonbob | ) |
| 22:09.29 | ``Erik | heh, 85 is still in 'beta', *shrug* |
| 22:09.41 | yukonbob | indeed -- and for good reason. |
| 22:09.43 | ``Erik | I might rework the fbsd package to use tcl84 |
| 22:10.08 | ``Erik | <-- hasn't had issue with tcl85 yet... works dandy both from the src build in BRL-CAD and the port |
| 22:10.38 | ``Erik | but if I can easily use the itcl, itk, and blt from ports in my port, ... so much better |
| 22:11.12 | yukonbob | I'd be happy if you did, and glad to help you if required -- I think tcl/tk 8.4 is too valuable to drop support for, and 8.5 too 'beta' and new to be the sole provider of tcl/tk -- I'd hate for development to slowly move to where tcl/tk 8.5 features exclude 8.4, requiring 3rd party patching, or worse, completely shutting 8.4 out of the picture... |
| 22:13.11 | yukonbob | iirc, the reason for moving to 8.5 was better Mac support, but I'm not sure what that means -- do you know? |
| 22:13.20 | yukonbob | ``Erik: ^--- directed at you |
| 22:13.20 | ``Erik | um, yeah |
| 22:13.21 | ``Erik | uh |
| 22:13.24 | ``Erik | aqua-tk |
| 22:13.49 | ``Erik | tk85 has 'native' widget support for mac, tk84 faked it through the X layer iirc |
| 22:13.52 | ``Erik | so it was... well.. fugly |
| 22:13.58 | ``Erik | and rquires x11.app running |
| 22:14.52 | ``Erik | <-- not sure... |
| 22:14.53 | ``Erik | um |
| 22:15.11 | ``Erik | brlcad and, u, joevalleywhatever his nick is... tim... those wer ethe two pushing it |
| 22:15.24 | ``Erik | I sit at mac's, but I do all my WORK on fbsd boxes |
| 22:15.43 | yukonbob | (using tcl/tk shipped w/ Mac, no less) |
| 22:15.51 | ``Erik | hum |
| 22:16.00 | yukonbob | ^--- years ago -- well before 8.5 |
| 22:16.47 | ``Erik | <-- not a tcl/tk guy... has done a tiny bit of eggdrop scripting, looked at some BRL-CAD shit.... that's it |
| 22:16.57 | yukonbob | tcl 8.4.16 is even still improving Mac support... |
| 22:17.13 | ``Erik | plop me down with scheme or lisp, ruby, ... smalltalk, ... haskell, ocaml, erlang, ... I'm there, yo |
| 22:17.35 | ``Erik | even stuff like lua and python, if I have to |
| 22:18.02 | yukonbob | ``Erik: what scheme is your favourite? |
| 22:19.12 | ``Erik | um, depends on the task |
| 22:19.16 | ``Erik | I like gauche for a lot of stuff |
| 22:19.18 | yukonbob | example? |
| 22:19.33 | ``Erik | gauche is a heavy hitter for things that deal with the OS |
| 22:19.56 | ``Erik | but it's gc is kinda weak (uses boehm) and it not the best for heavy crunch (but it's good) |
| 22:20.43 | ``Erik | chicken and, uh, |
| 22:20.58 | ``Erik | boehm is a conservative C garbage collector |
| 22:21.14 | ``Erik | it's not generational, it's not compacting, it's not ... a lot of things |
| 22:21.23 | ``Erik | java's gc stomps boehm |
| 22:21.46 | ``Erik | don't waste time with guile unless you have to, um |
| 22:22.30 | ``Erik | bigloo is another 'native code' scheme that's ok... sisc if you're in a jvm... s48 has a solid following |
| 22:22.59 | ``Erik | I found that guile was an order of magnitude slower than the 'ok' thchemeth |
| 22:23.19 | yukonbob | this conversation illustrates the strength and weakness of "scheme" -- because there's no cannonical implementation... |
| 22:23.34 | ``Erik | is there a canonical implementation of C? |
| 22:23.36 | ``Erik | or c++? |
| 22:23.56 | ``Erik | I think that's a strength *shrug* as long as the implementations follow the spec, and the spec is followed by the coder |
| 22:24.04 | yukonbob | it seems less perverted than scheme to me, but perhaps I haven't dug deep enough... |
| 22:24.33 | ``Erik | scheme is a bit odd in that it specifically aims for minimalism |
| 22:24.54 | yukonbob | heh -- s/scheme/r5rs/ some might argue |
| 22:24.58 | ``Erik | heh |
| 22:25.04 | ``Erik | r6 is coming p |
| 22:25.12 | yukonbob | r6 is already ratified |
| 22:25.24 | ``Erik | the srfi's are good, but not part of the core |
| 22:25.26 | yukonbob | and chicken, for example have said "fsck that" |
| 22:25.40 | ``Erik | heh, most impl's don't even do all of r5 :( |
| 22:25.45 | ``Erik | some "big" ones aren't even r4 |
| 22:26.41 | yukonbob | oh well -- maybe chicken et al will become wicked r5 implementations, and r7 will be more "schemey" so more people are happy... |
| 22:26.47 | ``Erik | correct tail call elimination and continuations (at the same time!) are tricky |
| 22:35.25 | yukonbob | heh -- alfa male |
| 22:44.47 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/havoc5.png :) |
| 22:45.58 | yukonbob | how many hits you getting IriX64? |
| 22:46.33 | IriX64 | ? |
| 22:46.37 | IriX64 | on the site, man its a sympatico server |
| 22:52.01 | IriX64 | yukonbob, does firefox see it all right? |
| 23:00.51 | yukonbob | IriX64: /me doesn't look at havoc pictures any more... |
| 23:01.40 | IriX64 | give me some of yours :) |
| 23:02.09 | IriX64 | the g files |
| 23:03.16 | yukonbob | http://www.methodlogic.net/flat/gfx/wheel_cropped.png |
| 23:04.40 | IriX64 | prettiest wheel iv'e ever seen. |
| 23:04.57 | IriX64 | do you have the whole bike? |
| 23:05.17 | louipc | I've gotten weary of desktop screenshots :p |
| 23:05.30 | IriX64 | heh yea me too |
| 23:05.50 | IriX64 | the attraction there was brlcad, screw the desktop |
| 23:05.56 | louipc | I need to start modelling stuff dangit |
| 23:06.05 | yukonbob | http://www.methodlogic.net/flat/gfx/newhub.png |
| 23:06.12 | IriX64 | i don't i just use the examples |
| 23:06.16 | louipc | well, just provide the render, not the desktop |
| 23:07.09 | IriX64 | ill try and yukonbob you actually work with this don't you, it shows |
| 23:07.46 | yukonbob | http://www.methodlogic.net/flat/vid/video.flv |
| 23:08.04 | yukonbob | ^--- POVRay, not BRL-CAD |
| 23:08.55 | IriX64 | can't open a flv file here sorry |
| 23:09.41 | IriX64 | what do i need to look at that, POVRay? |
| 23:10.11 | louipc | it's flash video |
| 23:10.15 | louipc | mplayer... |
| 23:10.35 | IriX64 | unix thing? or does it exist for windows? |
| 23:10.51 | yukonbob | try http://www.methodlogic.net/flat/vid/ |
| 23:11.43 | IriX64 | that i saw |
| 23:11.51 | yukonbob | ?shows up |
| 23:11.56 | IriX64 | yes |
| 23:12.47 | yukonbob | fsck qt is teh p1g |
| 23:13.29 | IriX64 | ? |
| 23:14.56 | louipc | sorry |
| 23:15.45 | yukonbob | indeed. |
| 23:24.25 | yukonbob | IriX64: re: whole bike -- not yet -- when I started there was a problem w/ rotating pipes in BRL-CAD -- (since resolved, I believe)... however, haven't re-attacked yet... |
| 23:26.42 | yukonbob | http://www.methodlogic.net/flat/gfx/houseray.png |
| 23:31.04 | yukonbob | http://www.methodlogic.net/flat/gfx/housecomp.png |
| 23:37.32 | IriX64 | makes me wish i could draw, but i'm happy just fiddling with stuff |
| 23:37.38 | yukonbob | My work is no havoc, but at least it's not a havoc. |
| 23:37.47 | IriX64 | heh yea |
| 23:39.26 | yukonbob | IriX64: if you can take some graph paper and make a plan, then translate that into the mged commands, you're laughing -- if you can see patterns then get tcl (a language so easy it's almost embarassing) to do them for you, then you get bicycle wheels and precise roofs. |
| 23:40.45 | IriX64 | i had trouble drawing a sine wave yukonbob :) |
| 23:40.45 | yukonbob | then you can move to helping starseeker do his Apollo project... |
| 23:41.13 | yukonbob | IriX64: let the computer do the work for you... |
| 23:41.52 | yukonbob | gah -- QT is still building -- /me wonders if this is worth the "effort" |
| 23:41.57 | IriX64 | still need to know what you're doing, i just fiddle, never took much to documentation :) |
| 23:42.08 | yukonbob | well -- can't help you there... |
| 23:42.20 | IriX64 | heh ill call if you can :) |
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| 23:43.07 | yukonbob | The King, Alice in Wonderland: "Start at the beginning, continue to the end, then stop." |
| 23:43.15 | IriX64 | time to pull another raid on cvs. |
| 23:43.38 | IriX64 | prefer mucking around with code |
| 23:44.42 | yukonbob | IriX64: want a task? Try getting your windows box running BRL-CAD with independant installations of tcl/tk 8.4 with supporting libs (blt, itcl, etc). |
| 23:45.22 | yukonbob | keep notes, and keep me in the loop wrt your progress... |
| 23:45.50 | IriX64 | my windows box, has a hard enough time compiling the stuff it's *supposed to compile |
| 23:47.11 | yukonbob | ?so wtf do you keep trying to recompile BRL-CAD (I'm _really_ curious) |
| 23:47.43 | IriX64 | trying to stay current thats all |
| 23:47.54 | yukonbob | ...stay current, and then not use it? |
| 23:48.24 | yukonbob | are you following -current, or 7.10.4? |
| 23:48.30 | IriX64 | hoping eventually to provide cygwin compiles and all thats needed to run it on a windows box |
| 23:48.35 | IriX64 | both |
| 23:50.07 | yukonbob | well, if you want to help a project I've adopted, consider playing w/ tcl/tk 8.4 etc. Get that stuff on your machine, and exclude it from the BRL-CAD build, having the build use the already-installed versions you've got... |
| 23:51.38 | IriX64 | might try that ive already got tcl/tk8.4.6 |
| 23:52.09 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/hwYhxt94.html <--- the 1's were added by me cause this thing conflicts with libbu |
| 23:52.40 | yukonbob | nice -- though 8.4.6 is a bit old in the 8.4 series -- 8.4.16 is the latest, released week/two ago... |
| 23:52.54 | IriX64 | where please? |
| 23:53.59 | yukonbob | http://tcl.sourceforge.net/ |
| 23:59.54 | tarzeau | i've made debian packages of brlcad |
| 23:59.59 | tarzeau | (finally, and it even works) |
