| 00:00.45 | starseeker | It depends. Apparently FIT doesn't, or maybe this one is just too old... |
| 00:01.26 | starseeker | Or too obscure... my interests do seem to run that way sometimes |
| 00:04.27 | brlcad | haven't made it out the door actually |
| 00:05.05 | louipc | starseeker: maybe they just have a really weird delivery system |
| 00:05.32 | starseeker | made an interesting mental image - brlcad on a runner coding away |
| 00:05.41 | brlcad | african swallows |
| 00:05.50 | brlcad | starseeker: i've done that before |
| 00:05.59 | starseeker | Does it burn more calories? ;-) |
| 00:06.21 | brlcad | the jolting is a bit hard though.. elliptical or bike are slightly easier |
| 00:06.37 | starseeker | Ah, yes. I'm an elliptical fan myself |
| 00:07.19 | starseeker | louipc: Apparently some years back someone implemented a basic Lisp using Forth as a substrate |
| 00:07.45 | starseeker | louipc: They published a paper and a thesis, and so far I can't find either one online anywhere. |
| 00:08.14 | louipc | hmm |
| 00:08.26 | starseeker | My local library couldn't even request the thesis from the college itself successfully - I'm going to have to try ordering a physical back issue of the journal |
| 00:09.00 | starseeker | I suppose it's not an idea that would appeal to most people anyway... |
| 00:09.42 | starseeker | It's of interest to me in the context of building a proof backed system all the way down to the machine language itself |
| 00:09.56 | louipc | I guess not otherwise it might be more accessible |
| 00:10.28 | starseeker | I've got half a notion to scan the whole lot of 'em if I do get ahold of them, but regrettably our copyright laws have something to say about that... |
| 00:12.16 | louipc | in canada it's legal to put a book on a photocopier, just not to push the copy button or something |
| 00:12.48 | starseeker | LOL. So all you need is a "smart" copier that identifies when a document is there and automatically copies it :-) |
| 00:13.32 | louipc | they used that analogy in some p2p case ... so it's legal to present the public with what backup copies of software, music, or movies |
| 00:13.54 | brlcad | academic use is one of the fair use clauses |
| 00:14.56 | brlcad | I scanned several entire books in college at the uni library |
| 00:14.59 | louipc | starseeker: yeah you wouldn't sell it would you now? |
| 00:15.44 | starseeker | No, but I understand that's irrelevant to copyright infringement |
| 00:16.15 | starseeker | It has something to do with what damages you can collect, IIRC... |
| 00:17.55 | starseeker | So few people actually want to learn things, the fewer artificial barriers around knowledge the better |
| 00:19.16 | starseeker | Particularly publicly funded research - the tax payers are paying for it, after all... |
| 00:19.35 | louipc | yeah of course if it's publicly funded |
| 00:20.02 | starseeker | I guess when universities noticed the revenue they could get from patents generated by research that was more or less the end of the "knowledge for knowledge's sake" environment... |
| 00:22.39 | starseeker | Maybe that's why I like open source so much - there's still a sense of fun in it |
| 00:23.30 | louipc | I like it because there's a sense of hope in it |
| 00:25.40 | starseeker | That too |
| 00:26.46 | ``Erik | heh |
| 00:26.56 | ``Erik | starseekers unified theory of computation? "it's forth all the way down"? |
| 00:27.02 | starseeker | :-) |
| 00:27.34 | starseeker | More along the lines of "I need a way to get from machine language to Lisp that has a hope of being understood by a wide audience" |
| 00:27.52 | ``Erik | oh, uh |
| 00:27.56 | ``Erik | pdp assembly isn't that? |
| 00:28.09 | starseeker | pdp assembly? |
| 00:28.21 | ``Erik | or ibm 704 asm? :D |
| 00:28.38 | starseeker | Ah :-). The other requirement is portability. |
| 00:28.55 | starseeker | I've heard it said you can get to a working Forth environment in a very small number of machine instructions |
| 00:29.12 | ``Erik | so get a 704 emulator |
| 00:29.27 | ``Erik | I mean, shit, 'car' and 'cdr' come from 704 opcodes... |
| 00:29.51 | starseeker | It may be possible to do a VERY basic Lisp straight from machine code |
| 00:29.59 | starseeker | That was the first Lisp, after all |
| 00:31.43 | ``Erik | hmmm, indeed O.o |
| 00:31.59 | ``Erik | a minimal lithp can be done in 7 operations |
| 00:32.04 | starseeker | Sweet |
| 00:32.15 | ``Erik | uhm, paul graham has a paper explaining each of them |
| 00:32.19 | starseeker | I wonder what the actual minimal bootstrap path is |
| 00:32.31 | ``Erik | then you need another dozen or so to make a useful lisp, which will still need bits of asm |
| 00:32.37 | starseeker | Sure. |
| 00:33.07 | ``Erik | but after those 7, you quickly go from writing asm to writing lithp with a little augmenting goop under the hood |
| 00:34.02 | starseeker | That could be a way to go. |
| 00:34.15 | ``Erik | (or writing forth, or writing ...) |
| 00:34.38 | starseeker | The key is understandability, and (possibly) being able to prove properties of code |
| 00:35.26 | ``Erik | then you naturally want to avoid silicon like x86... |
| 00:35.51 | ``Erik | :D |
| 00:35.59 | starseeker | Indeed. If at all practical, I would prefer to build a system using open cores and hardware... |
| 00:36.13 | starseeker | I think the ultrasparc specs are out there, aren't they? |
| 00:36.30 | ``Erik | the reason I'm keen on a lithp/scheme 'primitive' operating system is to get away from things like mixing C function semantics with lithp function semantics |
| 00:37.21 | ``Erik | I think so, uh, 'opensparc' or something? there're other specs that might be better to address... naturally, you want hte simplest ISA with minimal 'fancy' stuff if you really want provability... taht is, if you don't assume the hw is magic... |
| 00:37.40 | starseeker | Ah - ha: http://www.opensparc.net/opensparc-t2/ |
| 00:37.55 | ``Erik | cache, pipelines, variable sized opcodes, ... all complications :) |
| 00:38.33 | starseeker | My take on it is pretty much as follows: From the software standpoint, start with machine language as the assumed correct layer and work up. Everything below that is subject to experimental verification |
| 00:39.02 | starseeker | Of course, some hardware designs can be verified in theory, but that's just part of the platform design. |
| 00:39.04 | ``Erik | dig into some OS code sometime, there're so many workarounds for flawed hw, its'sick |
| 00:39.12 | starseeker | Indeed |
| 00:39.56 | starseeker | We could just do an implementation of the lisp machine on a chip, but I'd prefer something that has a non-zero chance of doing useful work within this century ;-) |
| 00:40.08 | ``Erik | hrmmmm |
| 00:40.14 | ``Erik | but those did useful work in the 80's |
| 00:40.27 | starseeker | True enough. |
| 00:40.39 | ``Erik | arrogant academic spazzes crappe all over thenotion of 'business sense' (cuz it was evil) |
| 00:40.51 | ``Erik | or somethin' |
| 00:40.58 | yukonbob | SPARC is only a spec... |
| 00:41.00 | starseeker | I've always wondered what a from scratch implementation of a "modern" OS would actually need from hardware, if it didn't have to do any legacy support |
| 00:41.30 | starseeker | For sure Windows Vista isn't a good way to judge... |
| 00:41.34 | ``Erik | what exactly defines "operating system", "modern, and "legacy support"? |
| 00:41.51 | ``Erik | thems're fuzzy topics :D |
| 00:42.31 | starseeker | Capable of at least opengl level graphics, multithreaded multitasking, and implementing compilers/drivers/etc only for one hardware design |
| 00:42.33 | yukonbob | starseeker: see NetBSD -- one codebase to rule them all... |
| 00:42.40 | starseeker | yukonbob: Heh |
| 00:42.47 | ``Erik | is "posix" legacy support? |
| 00:42.59 | starseeker | ``Erik: Good question. |
| 00:42.59 | ``Erik | what about supporting a ps/2 kbd when usb is available? |
| 00:43.11 | starseeker | I'd say usb only |
| 00:43.24 | ``Erik | how modern is modern? everything these days seems to be rehashing of things that were popular 20-50 years ago |
| 00:43.26 | starseeker | (so long as adapters exist for my IBM keyboard ;-) |
| 00:43.52 | starseeker | ``Erik: Oh, I don't dispute it's a fuzzy topic |
| 00:43.54 | ``Erik | is opengl all that modern? |
| 00:44.09 | starseeker | No, but it seems to still be a useful graphical standard. |
| 00:44.21 | yukonbob | ``Erik: opengl?!!! Two minutes ago we were talking about lisp! |
| 00:44.47 | ``Erik | what defines a thread? a sun style "string"? or a UNIX process? or the linux 'whatever you specify' monstrosity? |
| 00:44.47 | yukonbob | back to the future. |
| 00:45.10 | starseeker | yukonbob: In order to support 3D graphics, you need to be able to work with graphics hardware. There are some lisp implementations of opengl, IIRC, but they are very basic... |
| 00:45.35 | starseeker | ``Erik: There I'm not an expert. |
| 00:45.36 | ``Erik | yukonbob: I'm trying to tear down starseekers vague requirements... personally, I LIKE both lisp and opengl |
| 00:46.21 | yukonbob | starseeker: of course -- I was just joking about definitions of "modern" and OpenGL -- but a couple minutes ago you were talking about implenting Lisp in Forth -- funny how "standards" change (for some definition of "standards") |
| 00:46.24 | starseeker | I'm not disputing those requirements are vague. I just know I wouldn't want to try using a modern interactive CAD modeling environment on a 386 with no graphics acceleration ;-) |
| 00:46.48 | ``Erik | hum |
| 00:46.50 | starseeker | yukonbob: They're all part of the solution to the problem, or they might be |
| 00:46.54 | ``Erik | like one of those? |
| 00:47.02 | starseeker | Bingo :-) |
| 00:47.52 | yukonbob | "a 386 with no gfx acceleration" is an implementation detail -- not a design requirement. |
| 00:48.13 | starseeker | It's an example of a system that would not meet the requirements |
| 00:48.38 | yukonbob | what's that got to do with OS design, though? |
| 00:49.22 | yukonbob | and what are the "requirements"? It wasn't *that* long ago where one would start a render and wait many, many hours for it to finish... |
| 00:49.25 | starseeker | Well, the original motivating problem was/is to create a computer algebra system that produces answers that can be trusted |
| 00:49.58 | yukonbob | well -- are you saying 80386s are not trustworthy? Maybe moreso than some pentiums ;) |
| 00:49.58 | starseeker | so that's where discussions of hardware come in, because if your hardware can't be trusted it's game over before the software even begins... |
| 00:50.35 | ``Erik | thus my argument for absolute minimal hw... :D wtf does ogl have to do with provable computation? |
| 00:50.36 | starseeker | yukonbob: I'm not sure. But proving properties about them and software written in their machine code would likely be more of a challenge than for some other platforms, which was ``Erik's point |
| 00:50.54 | starseeker | provably correct visualization of a surface plot? |
| 00:51.29 | starseeker | So, if we want "absolute minimal hw" but still want to solve interesting problems, where's the middle ground? |
| 00:51.35 | starseeker | that was how all that started |
| 00:51.44 | yukonbob | starseeker: well --- if you've got a good test harness, and keep primitives to a minimum, according to ``Erik you can bootstrap a Lisp environment in 7 instructions... |
| 00:52.03 | starseeker | Hehe |
| 00:52.10 | ``Erik | um, 7 primitive functions, not necessarily 7 instructions |
| 00:52.15 | starseeker | Right |
| 00:52.27 | ``Erik | and you need more to do anything beyond a minimal symbol processor :D |
| 00:52.38 | ``Erik | I'd hate to code up math routines in symbol land |
| 00:52.39 | yukonbob | right -- but that's still a small amount of code than writing a whole common lisp env in asm |
| 00:53.04 | ``Erik | be about as useful as a calculator in sed :D (and a similar construction, I'd imagine) |
| 00:53.20 | ``Erik | and I aint' never said nothin' about common lisp... |
| 00:53.32 | ``Erik | be a fair amount of work to make a provable lisp1.5 :D |
| 00:53.33 | starseeker | yukonbob: For something like Axiom, I'm assuming most of Common Lisp would be needed. So the question becomes how to get there from nothing |
| 00:53.44 | starseeker | ``Erik: Indeed! |
| 00:54.01 | starseeker | It was actually some guys on comp.lang.lisp that pointed me to Forth |
| 00:55.07 | ``Erik | that's the natural way a lithper works, yukonbob |
| 00:55.17 | starseeker | Whether it's a project that is possible or even interesting is certainly up for debate. I suspect this all goes back to my phyiscs professors in undergrad, who stressed the point we couldn't trust Mathematica to give us the right answer |
| 00:55.52 | ``Erik | recursive fully computational macros, 'top up' primitive operations, build your DSL implementation bit at a time until the problem is trivial |
| 00:56.14 | starseeker | While of course they were correct (and the primary point of needing to develop one's own mind is independent of the trustworthiness of the CAS) I became fascinated by the question "what would it take to create a CAS that COULD be trusted to give the right answer?" |
| 00:56.15 | yukonbob | ``Erik: -- and so, with 7 primitives, audited for good code (which is _still_ only an implementation detail) and sound logic, you've got a system -- and it's got _nothing_ to do with whether it's running on an atari or a cray. |
| 00:56.38 | ``Erik | what was the quote about solving every problem by adding another level of abstraction? :D |
| 00:57.05 | ``Erik | it has to be proven to run on SOMETHING, dude... whether silicon or a forth vm |
| 00:57.14 | starseeker | Correct |
| 00:57.52 | ``Erik | oh, so the ALU abstracted to microcode abstracted to the ISA abstracted to C is too much? :D |
| 00:58.06 | yukonbob | "it" is the 7 (or however many) primitives... of course it has to run -- unless "imagination" qualifies as a type of computer too... |
| 00:58.08 | ``Erik | flying electrons abstracted to gates abstracted to the alu? |
| 00:58.36 | ``Erik | dude, it's abstractions all the way down! |
| 00:58.40 | starseeker | A stack of machine -> machine language -> Forth -> Lisp -> SPAD/Aldor/Qi is probably about the minimum needed to get the proper tradeoffs in complexity and functionality. |
| 01:01.07 | starseeker | The idea of Forth would be that since it is optimized to need very few machine commands to go from nothing to Turing Complete, it would offer the minimum "proof burden" when porting from one platform to another. That of course is only in theory, since a proper lisp compiler would still need to know a lot about the machine arch. to do anything serious, but it's a start |
| 01:02.08 | starseeker | Or if the machine happens to have a good ASM (like the IBM 704) you could skip the Forth and go straight to Lisp |
| 01:02.43 | ``Erik | hum, with new developments in quantum understanding and microphysics going on, are gates even provable? O.o or just statistically ok and overengineered to compensate? |
| 01:02.49 | ``Erik | :D |
| 01:02.56 | starseeker | ``Erik: A good point, actually |
| 01:03.04 | starseeker | ``Erik: You're quite correct |
| 01:03.04 | yukonbob | ``Erik: ++ |
| 01:03.18 | starseeker | ``Erik: The same holds true for our brains |
| 01:03.24 | yukonbob | that's what we have ECC memory for... |
| 01:03.31 | ``Erik | brains are provably wrong, due |
| 01:03.33 | ``Erik | dude |
| 01:03.47 | starseeker | ``Erik: Just most of them ;-) |
| 01:03.49 | ``Erik | ecc is another example of statistical over-engineering, not provability... |
| 01:04.13 | yukonbob | right -- the reason it's _needed_ is because of errors... |
| 01:04.17 | ``Erik | math types are weird |
| 01:04.46 | starseeker | What you can do is prove that the behavior is correct, assuming a given behavior of the hardware |
| 01:04.54 | starseeker | this is if you fully understand your software |
| 01:05.18 | ``Erik | yeah, but then you have turing-church theories, lambda calculus, ... it's all done |
| 01:05.19 | yukonbob | but obviously not the hardware, or at least can't guarantee the hardware... |
| 01:05.20 | starseeker | If you know the statistical behavior of your hardware, you can then estimate (with a LOT of work) the probability that a given calculation is incorrect |
| 01:05.28 | ``Erik | :D |
| 01:06.28 | starseeker | So if we ever understood fully how our own brains solved problems, we could also come up with a probability that a given human performed calculation was incorrect |
| 01:09.11 | starseeker | I think someone broke down the problems humans like to solve into four categories: solvable, not specifically solvable but can prove a solution exists, provably not solvable, and problems where we can't prove one way or the other whether it can be solved or not |
| 01:10.23 | starseeker | sorry guys |
| 01:11.46 | CIA-28 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r354 10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/vc7.1/stupidBot.vcproj: include the URLManger |
| 01:15.07 | louipc | wowzers |
| 01:15.16 | starseeker | louipc: ? |
| 01:15.21 | ``Erik | sorry, the only proofs I work with these days tend to be 10, 80, and 100 O:-) |
| 01:15.28 | louipc | lots going on here eh? |
| 01:15.39 | starseeker | No, just me going offtopic ;-) |
| 01:16.09 | louipc | ``Erik: I worked with a 140 proof, man that was caustic |
| 01:16.42 | yukonbob | starseeker: re: four categories -- didn't dick cheney go on about that wrt iraq :) |
| 01:17.01 | starseeker | yukonbob: Argh, he might have |
| 01:17.31 | yukonbob | similar, not the same -- some goofy, confusing-ish rambling... |
| 01:17.50 | ``Erik | heh |
| 01:18.04 | ``Erik | 151, dude :D |
| 01:18.16 | starseeker | Politics is definitely a problem where we can't even make definite statements of whether it's solvable in theory or not ;-) |
| 01:18.26 | yukonbob | ``Erik: thats your proof? :) |
| 01:18.37 | yukonbob | Oddfellows Local 151 |
| 01:18.43 | ``Erik | I haven't worked with bacardi 151 in a bit |
| 01:18.57 | ``Erik | but it was fun :D light the shot on fire... etc |
| 01:19.07 | ``Erik | but that NEEDED a back on it |
| 01:19.18 | louipc | how fast does it burn? |
| 01:19.29 | starseeker | Jeez - you must have a Teflon shot glass. |
| 01:19.38 | ``Erik | um, I d'no, it didn't let it stay lit very long.... |
| 01:19.51 | ``Erik | didn't wanna break the shotglass and didn't wanna lose all the fuel :D |
| 01:19.56 | louipc | ah |
| 01:19.59 | yukonbob | this makes me wish for some sambuca about now... |
| 01:20.01 | louipc | fuel! yeah |
| 01:20.02 | ``Erik | I have a massively thick shotglass |
| 01:20.20 | yukonbob | sure you do, ``Erik |
| 01:20.20 | louipc | sambuca is too dang sweet |
| 01:20.23 | ``Erik | in fact, it's begging for a little bushmills right now O.o |
| 01:20.35 | ``Erik | I'll go weigh it :D |
| 01:20.58 | yukonbob | louipc: try Annisette |
| 01:21.21 | louipc | I'll try to remember that |
| 01:21.30 | ``Erik | my normal shooter is 65g, the one I like to use is 170g |
| 01:21.57 | louipc | haha YES |
| 01:22.33 | ``Erik | or, wait, sorry I'm a stupid american, lemme go measure those in uh, ounces or something |
| 01:24.03 | starseeker | Humph - the opensparc download requires registration? |
| 01:24.05 | yukonbob | ye |
| 01:24.07 | yukonbob | ww |
| 01:24.09 | yukonbob | yes |
| 01:24.12 | yukonbob | fsck |
| 01:24.15 | yukonbob | ;) |
| 01:24.20 | starseeker | lol |
| 01:25.27 | ``Erik | sun has been slow to embrace 'open' in the way we think of it |
| 01:25.33 | ``Erik | look at the old java licenses |
| 01:30.56 | yukonbob | ``Erik: use Tcl bytecode and we can integrate it w/ BRL-CAD ;) |
| 01:33.39 | ``Erik | heh, does tcl even have bytecode? |
| 01:34.16 | yukonbob | ``Erik: yup |
| 01:39.04 | yukonbob | louipc: also, Passione Nera |
| 01:41.38 | ``Erik | I'm gonna start using 'courics' as the weight measurement for everything. |
| 02:00.41 | louipc | an acre is the area of a rectangle who's length is one furlong and who's width is one chain |
| 02:39.52 | ``Erik | heh |
| 02:40.06 | ``Erik | which happens to be a classic western farm plot |
| 04:26.37 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) |
| 04:28.32 | brlcad | starseeker: BeOS was specifically designed as a "from scratch implementation" that was generally hailed as a major [technical] success at the time albeit a failure commercially (CEO was an idiot) |
| 04:32.16 | brlcad | and I learned a new word, thanks :) .. that hasn't happened unintentionally in a really long time :) |
| 06:26.16 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/ (33 files in 33 dirs): make the AdditionalIncludeDirectories paths match for Debug and Release |
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| 12:57.31 | starseeker | brlcad: I guess that's why the Haiku OS guys have been stubbornly plodding along. It does look interesting. |
| 13:13.55 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/brlcad/brlcad.sln: Changing the build order to force tclsh to build sooner. Tclsh is used early in the build to create the install tree. |
| 13:30.35 | DEFCON_ | C joke :D - http://www.ianai.net/jokes/WillNotThrow.gif |
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| 17:42.49 | brlcad | heh |
| 17:45.14 | brlcad | starseeker: yeah, I was really big on BeOS for years .. Haiku doesn't have the impressive foundation that Be had, but they've kept the same basic philosophy and have made a ton of great progress on reviving the effort |
| 17:45.43 | brlcad | and as open source, it's at least bound to "not fail" so long as someone's still working on it ;) |
| 17:46.14 | brlcad | they're really close to a first 1.0 release, so it'll likely be slashdotted and activity may really kick-start after then |
| 17:59.39 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: |
| 17:59.41 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: annotate the opengl display manager problems where the display doesn't |
| 17:59.43 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: automatically update any longer if the context is invalidated; mention that the |
| 17:59.45 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: libfb ogl interface seems horribly broken at the moment as it just crashes |
| 17:59.47 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: (consistently, at least on Mac OS X); and mention that the open dialog problems |
| 17:59.59 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: seem to be Mac OS X specific too as they worked under Linux (7.10.1 Mac also |
| 17:59.59 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: seemed to work fine, so something since then). |
| 18:00.48 | brlcad | ``Erik: what do you mean by fix the hacks -- add more of them, or do something about them so they're not hacks? |
| 18:01.48 | brlcad | I worked on what to do about that a while ago and didn't see any really easy fix for the problem given the way the data is being marshalled into and out of ClientData objects |
| 18:02.50 | ``Erik | add them until they get fixed? |
| 18:03.02 | ``Erik | make 'em easily greppable, anyways |
| 18:03.30 | brlcad | okay, just checking what 'fix' meant -- works for me |
| 18:03.46 | ``Erik | given that ClientData is a point type, defining the field as size_t MIGHT be workable, but that field is sometimes used as an int and sometimes as a pointer, ... |
| 18:05.12 | ``Erik | pointer, even |
| 18:05.17 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/tclsh/library/installTree.tcl: Initial check-in. This script will be called by Visual Studio to build the install tree. |
| 18:06.55 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/tclsh/tclsh.vcproj: Calling installTree.tcl instead of treeInit.sh. |
| 18:10.09 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/Makefile.am: include the new scripts in the source dist |
| 18:30.45 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/librt/ (const.c hist.c plane.c polylib.c polyno.h snoise.c): once again, try to delete these zombie files that have again mysteriously shown up after an update |
| 19:02.29 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/tclsh/tclsh.vcproj: Remove command to copy clock.tcl. |
| 19:09.18 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: No longer need to define BRLCAD_DATA and BRLCAD_ROOT. |
| 19:10.20 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/archer/archer.bat: Archer now uses bwish. |
| 19:11.57 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/mged/mged.bat: Define WEB_BROWSER to point to IEXPLORE.EXE. |
| 19:12.08 | prasad_ | boo |
| 19:14.52 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: brlcadDataPath can now be set the same on Windows as it is on Unix. |
| 19:16.16 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/ (openw.tcl mged.tcl): Normalize the path when setting mged_default(html_dir). |
| 19:27.53 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p548743C3.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:59.02 | brlcad | yo prasad_ |
| 20:03.12 | prasad_ | yo yo |
| 20:10.26 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/tclsh/library/installTree.tcl: Copying many more files to the install tree. |
| 20:19.27 | *** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-83-251.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 20:53.59 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/tclIndex: Put things back. |
| 21:36.26 | ``Erik | O.O holy crap, it worked |
| 21:38.22 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/archer/archer: html is no longer under doc on Windows. |
| 21:39.53 | brlcad | a dirt worked? |
| 21:43.00 | ``Erik | heh, yeah |
| 21:43.05 | ``Erik | the gtk snake thingy |
| 21:43.39 | ``Erik | and, uh, ain't nothin' worth worrying about for public consumption other than perhaps terminology, I think |
| 21:45.15 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/tclIndex: Looks like things accidently got wacked. |
| 21:53.14 | ``Erik | heh, I'd forgotten about 'diva' |
| 21:55.43 | ``Erik | hum, forgot some stuff last night, wonder if I stopped in the middle of it or something |
| 21:56.10 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (libcommon/unpack.c librender/plane.c librender/spall.c): update the tie_init() calls with the new parm |
| 21:59.01 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/incrTcl/itk/pkgIndex.tcl.in: there is no ITK_VERSION, use ITCL_VERSION |
| 22:06.39 | prasad_ | http://www.kloonigames.com/blog/ |
| 22:16.52 | Z80-Boy | How do I do a regular tetrahedron? |
| 22:17.00 | Z80-Boy | With an arbn, n=4? |
| 22:23.04 | brlcad | you could do that, but better would be to create an arb4 |
| 22:23.22 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/INSTALL: sync options with configure: add dtrace, remove automatic |
| 22:23.56 | brlcad | (subtle, but "arbn" are not the same as "arb#" objects) |
| 22:30.10 | ``Erik | woops, that sounded like a steam whistle, time to go hom |
| 22:58.42 | minute | http://my.brlcad.org/~MinuteElectron/live/wordpress/?p=5 |
