| 00:02.20 | *** join/#brlcad Tieku (n=Joe@cpc1-leed14-0-0-cust631.leed.cable.ntl.com) |
| 00:02.23 | Tieku | hi |
| 00:02.52 | Tieku | has brl always been avilable as open source? |
| 00:03.04 | archivist | not allways |
| 00:03.41 | Tieku | when did it make the change? |
| 00:03.41 | archivist | nearly two years ago iirc |
| 00:03.41 | Tieku | 2004 |
| 00:04.16 | archivist | but its a 20+ year old project |
| 00:04.16 | Tieku | thanks |
| 00:05.05 | Tieku | archivist: you using the software before it became opensource? |
| 00:05.10 | Tieku | were you* |
| 00:05.11 | archivist | no |
| 00:05.47 | Tieku | in your opinion is it the best opensource option for a solid 3d modeling package? |
| 00:06.14 | brlcad | Tieku: any particular reason for the question? |
| 00:07.20 | brlcad | it's only been released as open source for about three years, though pretty much anyone could get the entire package (including printed docs and source code) for free since it started |
| 00:07.29 | Tieku | brlcad: i'm a design student with an interest in open source (even open design) and i'm looking for a cad package to learn. i've searched a few times over the years and only now come across brl |
| 00:08.09 | brlcad | design isn't one of our strongest points yet but we are probably the "best" open source option out there, particularly for solid modeling |
| 00:08.28 | brlcad | have you seen the industry diagram on the website? that gives an idea of the domains we presently cover |
| 00:08.48 | Tieku | great to hear. I am reading over the new website now |
| 00:08.51 | brlcad | design is one of the areas I'm most interested in supporting (personally), but there's a lot of work to do interface-wise |
| 00:09.11 | brlcad | http://ftp.brlcad.org/Industry_Diagram.png |
| 00:09.20 | Tieku | just out of interest. have you come across the reprap project? |
| 00:09.41 | Tieku | thank brl, looking now |
| 00:10.20 | brlcad | yeah |
| 00:10.43 | brlcad | one of the reprap guys hangs out here from time to time |
| 00:11.21 | Tieku | cool, i'm working on one for my final year project. |
| 00:11.37 | brlcad | Tieku: do you write code? :) |
| 00:13.23 | Tieku | brlcad: only in the area of internet services, php, xml, soap, actionscripting - I am hoping to make the jump towards desktop apps in the future |
| 00:13.50 | brlcad | great, maybe you'll consider helping out on BRL-CAD :) |
| 00:14.00 | brlcad | developers are what we need the most |
| 00:14.46 | Tieku | i'd love too - but we'll have to see if im upto speed first :) i'm certainly a programmer at heart. only on a design cource to better understand darn humans |
| 00:15.25 | archivist | that needs a lifetime |
| 00:15.59 | Tieku | i believe that :) |
| 00:16.03 | brlcad | I believe that problem is NP complete too :) |
| 00:16.25 | Tieku | NP? |
| 00:17.55 | Tieku | I'm saving the industry diagram, it communicates the world of cad application nicely. cheers |
| 00:18.21 | brlcad | thanks |
| 00:18.30 | brlcad | took quite a while to compose properly ;) |
| 00:28.09 | CIA-32 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30513 10/brlcad/trunk/db/Makefile.am: (log message trimmed) |
| 00:28.09 | CIA-32 | BRL-CAD: yet one more stab at accounting for parallel make problems where the libtool |
| 00:28.09 | CIA-32 | BRL-CAD: wrapper script is invoked by too many threads before it has time to generate the |
| 00:28.09 | CIA-32 | BRL-CAD: lt-asc2g binary. this fixes the problem by creating a lockfile mechanism that |
| 00:28.10 | CIA-32 | BRL-CAD: invokes asc2g first on just the operators.asc file (cause it's so damn small) |
| 00:28.12 | CIA-32 | BRL-CAD: before running everyone else. seems to work like a charm though I bet there is |
| 00:28.14 | CIA-32 | BRL-CAD: still an exceptionally rare race condition possible if the operators.g |
| 00:33.27 | Tieku | I've just installed what i thought was BRL_CAD - What is the relationship between BRL-CAD, Archer and MGED? |
| 00:35.27 | Tieku | No worries - i think im on the trail of the answer... |
| 00:38.31 | brlcad | MGED and Archer are two of the tools in BRL-CAD |
| 00:38.40 | brlcad | BRL-CAD is a suite of tools, more than 400 overall |
| 00:39.17 | brlcad | most of them are command-line processing tools (for converting between geometry and image formats, for example) but mged and archer are two of our GUI-based tools |
| 00:39.19 | Tieku | Would it be acurate to say MGED is the primary tool? |
| 00:39.45 | brlcad | archer is a prototype of a new modeling interface, most of the power currently in use though is in mged |
| 00:39.54 | brlcad | mged is what most of the docs on the website are for |
| 00:40.08 | brlcad | there is a very extensive set of tutorials to help get you started |
| 00:40.20 | Tieku | reading now :) cheers |
| 00:40.31 | brlcad | (particularly the one labelled "Volume II -- Introduction to MGED" |
| 00:58.11 | Tieku | BRL looks very impressive. I'm gona take a break but keep working through the tutorial lessons. thanks for your help |
| 04:59.13 | *** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_ (n=Me@dsl107.esjtvtli.sover.net) |
| 06:11.51 | brlcad | it's a fair bit more simple now and confirmed on ie6, firefox, and safari .. still need a ie7 test if someone has it on hand |
| 06:44.14 | *** join/#brlcad CIA-34 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149) |
| 06:51.46 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@77-56-95-161.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 06:54.24 | CIA-34 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30514 10/brlcad/trunk/db/Makefile.am: clear out the lockfile and any .g's we are scheduled to build |
| 06:56.13 | brlcad | if folks would kindly test the website, see if there are any *egregious* problems (things rendering outright wrong only) .. please let me know -- trying to take the site live today |
| 06:56.25 | brlcad | http://my.brlcad.org for the uninitiated |
| 07:03.15 | clock_ | mybrlcadspace? |
| 07:37.50 | brlcad | a temp holder until it goes live as brlcad.org |
| 07:38.44 | *** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 07:59.01 | alex_joni | brlcad: a minor nag on the poll |
| 07:59.20 | alex_joni | I get the sliders behind the summary on the right, snapshot in a second |
| 07:59.21 | *** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6) |
| 08:00.11 | alex_joni | http://imagebin.org/14859 |
| 08:03.04 | alex_joni | also History for the wiki pages is not rendering greatly here |
| 08:03.34 | alex_joni | http://imagebin.org/14860 |
| 08:05.54 | alex_joni | I get the last one in Opera 9.24, Firefox 2.0.0.12, IE 7.0.5730.11 |
| 08:27.07 | *** join/#brlcad clock__ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 09:35.23 | archivist | search box takes up screen space that cant be scrolled out the way |
| 10:04.39 | alex_joni | archivist: that's a feature :P |
| 10:04.50 | archivist | ew |
| 10:05.40 | archivist | on some pages its not obvious you need to scroll, so its a UI issue |
| 10:21.37 | alex_joni | guess that's personal taste, I always use the scroll button, so I don't really look if there's a scroll bar or not |
| 10:21.48 | alex_joni | otoh a resolution of 1920x1200 might hide this issue :P |
| 10:22.21 | alex_joni | brlcad: did you just change something? |
| 10:23.27 | alex_joni | not it looks like this: http://imagebin.org/14864 |
| 10:27.47 | archivist | what I see here on the debian box www.archivist.info/brlcad.png |
| 10:58.45 | *** join/#brlcad CIA-33 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149) |
| 13:44.02 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-085-106.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 13:48.12 | brlcad | thanks guys |
| 13:49.28 | brlcad | there are still a few bugs, and I'm not happy with the fixed footer, but the alternative was just way too buggy -- I think I'm going to change it to what I came up for IE6, which is something just a whole lot simpler |
| 14:20.23 | alex_joni | brlcad: still.. I wonder what happened as it looked fine this morning even on opera |
| 14:24.52 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54873B52.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:45.45 | brlcad | probably reloaded your cache |
| 14:45.55 | brlcad | there were no changes until just now |
| 14:57.13 | ``Erik | on to a release, now? |
| 15:28.34 | alex_joni | brlcad: dunno about the cache, but it still looks wrong on opera (http://imagebin.org/14864), it worked right this morning (roughly 8-9 hours ago) and I haven't been looking at my.brlcad.org for a while (so I doubt I had anything in cache) |
| 16:08.50 | brlcad | ``Erik: not yet, jra had a build error I'm looking at, libbu linkage on debian |
| 16:08.56 | brlcad | alex_joni: try now |
| 16:09.20 | brlcad | there have been lots and lots of changes so it's been in flux |
| 16:09.53 | alex_joni | yup, much better |
| 16:10.15 | alex_joni | did you remove the search bar? |
| 16:10.28 | brlcad | yes |
| 16:10.34 | ``Erik | ohhhhyeah, um, I bet his error is because he ran debians busted libtool on it |
| 16:10.36 | brlcad | it was just causing way too many problems |
| 16:11.00 | ``Erik | losing the tcl link or something |
| 16:11.06 | brlcad | so search is just disabled outright for now (what the hell are people really going to search for anyways.. there's no content loaded yet) |
| 16:11.25 | brlcad | ``Erik: yeah, also org deadline is in a couple hours, so I'm working that |
| 16:11.39 | ``Erik | aight |
| 16:11.58 | alex_joni | brlcad: nothing else I can spot at the moment.. |
| 16:11.58 | brlcad | wanted to get the website at least stable for the submission |
| 16:12.08 | brlcad | alex_joni: cool, thanks |
| 16:12.16 | alex_joni | np |
| 16:12.18 | brlcad | ``Erik: can you do an ie6 check? |
| 16:12.37 | brlcad | i tried to avoid the things that makes ie6 cry/puke |
| 16:14.01 | alex_joni | brlcad: I tested here on Opera, Firefox and IE7 |
| 16:14.09 | brlcad | how'd ie7 look? |
| 16:14.22 | alex_joni | looks good so far (except IE7 which has an odd font for the MOTD) |
| 16:14.35 | brlcad | heh, wondered about that |
| 16:14.35 | alex_joni | but the rest looks ok even in IE7 |
| 16:14.46 | alex_joni | looks wild-west-like |
| 16:14.55 | alex_joni | care for a snapshot? |
| 16:14.59 | brlcad | sure |
| 16:15.18 | brlcad | it's set to 'fantasy' which is usually a subtle cursiveish font |
| 16:15.36 | alex_joni | http://imagebin.org/14870 |
| 16:15.38 | brlcad | cursive usually pulls up something too extreme |
| 16:15.50 | brlcad | ew |
| 16:15.54 | alex_joni | it's not quite easy to read imo |
| 16:17.48 | brlcad | what does it look like now? |
| 16:21.33 | alex_joni | way better |
| 16:22.10 | alex_joni | http://imagebin.org/14871 |
| 16:22.50 | alex_joni | even firefox is better now (not that condensed) |
| 16:23.05 | brlcad | hm, okay |
| 16:23.12 | brlcad | is that better than .. now? |
| 16:23.49 | alex_joni | now it's great on all 3 |
| 16:23.59 | alex_joni | opera/firefox/ie7 |
| 16:24.10 | brlcad | i mean which do you like more |
| 16:24.17 | alex_joni | last one |
| 16:24.20 | brlcad | okay |
| 16:24.29 | alex_joni | I mean.. the one that is right now |
| 16:24.40 | brlcad | then that's the one it'll be |
| 16:24.43 | brlcad | thx |
| 16:26.01 | alex_joni | there is another really minor thing in IE7, the toolbox on the right looks a bit different than Firefox/Opera |
| 16:26.09 | alex_joni | the text is indented a bit |
| 16:26.40 | alex_joni | it's visible in http://imagebin.org/14871 |
| 16:26.53 | alex_joni | (I wouldn't worry about that though..) |
| 16:26.55 | brlcad | yeah, I was just looking at that |
| 16:27.53 | brlcad | there, that should be a little better |
| 16:28.57 | alex_joni | yup, better |
| 16:29.34 | alex_joni | http://imagebin.org/14872 |
| 16:30.07 | brlcad | yeah, that'll do |
| 16:30.19 | brlcad | great, done for now .. now on to the submission |
| 16:34.53 | alex_joni | bbl |
| 16:51.15 | *** join/#brlcad lYl (n=ma@p54A459E0.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:28.20 | ``Erik | ummm |
| 17:29.21 | ``Erik | hopefully no one at google is dumb enough to be using ie6 O.o :D |
| 17:30.31 | archivist | mah win2k can has ie6 |
| 17:30.53 | archivist | and mah box at home ie5!! |
| 17:31.02 | archivist | but thats not on the web |
| 17:32.01 | ``Erik | yeah, it seems to look ok... as ok as can be expected |
| 17:32.27 | ``Erik | ugh, no wonder everything looks horribly aliased, 1024x768 |
| 17:32.55 | ``Erik | no overlap issues or anything |
| 17:34.28 | ``Erik | ummm |
| 17:34.34 | ``Erik | the navigation bar in the top right corner |
| 17:34.46 | ``Erik | on firefox/mac, it looks very centered |
| 17:35.06 | ``Erik | on ie6/winxp, there's a chunk of space above the text |
| 17:42.22 | ``Erik | http://bz.bzflag.bz/~erik/mybrlcad.png |
| 17:43.56 | ``Erik | that's the only thing I could spot via my quick perusal |
| 17:44.58 | ``Erik | hrmmmmm |
| 17:45.23 | ``Erik | no alt tag on the main page image? |
| 17:46.10 | ``Erik | <-- has no style and no class, yo |
| 18:20.21 | brlcad | http://my.brlcad.org/private/Googlefight2007.pdf |
| 18:21.02 | brlcad | funny stuff |
| 18:28.44 | ``Erik | wow |
| 18:28.46 | ``Erik | php, wow |
| 18:53.13 | brlcad | Whew! .. 7 minutes to spare |
| 18:53.34 | ``Erik | bah, that's loads of time, you coulda taken a few minutes to kick out a release |
| 18:53.37 | brlcad | yeah, php can't really be filtered .. I mean the vast majority of projects use it |
| 18:53.43 | ``Erik | all worrying about deadlines you're miles from, sheesh :D |
| 18:54.25 | brlcad | that was pretty damn frantic .. needed a couple more hours but 90% of whether it's accepted will be decided within 10 minutes |
| 18:54.31 | ``Erik | <-- notes that there's a distinct lack of information on exactly where the data came from... or how exactly it was massaged :) |
| 18:55.02 | brlcad | Googefight :) |
| 18:55.29 | brlcad | which really is just the same as searching for any of those terms and looking at the result count |
| 18:55.32 | ``Erik | iirc, someone enters two phrases to analyze |
| 18:55.38 | ``Erik | where'd you get your list of phrases? :D |
| 18:55.49 | brlcad | that is the list of phrases |
| 18:55.57 | brlcad | except where it says modified |
| 18:56.03 | ``Erik | yes, I know... where'd they come from? |
| 18:56.11 | brlcad | from last year's participants |
| 18:56.19 | brlcad | that's what *they* said their name is |
| 18:56.33 | ``Erik | ahhh, the top X of that year, ok |
| 18:56.36 | brlcad | but then of course some of them make no sense or need tweaking to get a valid result (like Gallery) |
| 18:56.53 | brlcad | http://code.google.com/soc/2007/ |
| 18:58.51 | ``Erik | <-- just thinks there should be some footnote or something that says all phrases came from GSoC '07 to clarify *shrug* was my big question on looking at it |
| 18:59.03 | ``Erik | knowwhudahmean, verne? |
| 18:59.30 | brlcad | well, the intended audience is the gsoc program manager |
| 18:59.36 | brlcad | I think she'll recognize it ;) |
| 18:59.36 | ``Erik | ah, ok |
| 19:01.05 | brlcad | some of them are heavily biased unfortunately, but then most statistics are |
| 19:01.11 | brlcad | it was included mostly for humor |
| 19:01.18 | ``Erik | obviously :D |
| 19:01.27 | brlcad | and to hint-hint-nude-nude at them that we fit right in |
| 19:01.38 | brlcad | heh, nude |
| 19:01.40 | ``Erik | 'nude nude'??? wtf goes on at gsoc??? |
| 19:01.41 | brlcad | s/nude/nudge/ |
| 19:01.49 | ``Erik | uh, nudge nude? O.o |
| 19:01.50 | ``Erik | :D |
| 19:01.54 | brlcad | i know where my mind wants to be |
| 19:01.56 | ``Erik | even worse |
| 19:02.06 | ``Erik | or better, based on frame of reference |
| 19:02.28 | brlcad | creative commons is probably the most egregious one on the list |
| 19:02.38 | brlcad | no way they're that big, but their terms are so general |
| 19:04.27 | brlcad | wordpress seems massively inflated too |
| 19:08.55 | ``Erik | or a lot of those php pages say they'll release the art into creative commons |
| 19:31.33 | brlcad | removed our adjustment since I noticed too many false positives if you search way deep |
| 19:31.51 | brlcad | annotated the adjustments used |
| 19:36.33 | ``Erik | um, do you have a high res of the rise stryker and/or bradley rtwizard image? |
| 19:36.44 | brlcad | hm |
| 19:36.50 | brlcad | somewhere |
| 19:37.22 | brlcad | http://my.brlcad.org/OLD/images/stryker_slat.png that's as high-res as he rendered |
| 19:37.32 | brlcad | so not really print-quality |
| 19:37.38 | brlcad | but maybe more than what you have |
| 19:39.50 | brlcad | hm, I apparently do have a 200dpi version, but iirc I just scaled the original and color-corrected |
| 19:51.12 | ``Erik | what about the 'best' images for the rtwizard and modeller screenshots? |
| 19:58.08 | brlcad | modeller is big |
| 19:58.36 | brlcad | http://my.brlcad.org/OLD/images/mged.jpg |
| 19:58.45 | brlcad | for a screenshot at least |
| 19:59.25 | ``Erik | jpg? eeps |
| 19:59.54 | brlcad | rtwizard would probably be easier to just capture something new |
| 20:00.15 | brlcad | using havoc or m35 |
| 20:01.43 | ``Erik | hrmmm |
| 20:02.10 | ``Erik | neat, errors trying to start rtwizard |
| 20:02.22 | brlcad | it doesn't like system stuff |
| 20:03.03 | ``Erik | 'cept on my mac, I forced it to install tcl, tk, etc |
| 20:03.22 | ``Erik | Error in startup script: invalid command name "RtWizard::IntroPage" |
| 20:04.42 | brlcad | then maybe zero-d tclIndex files |
| 20:05.11 | ``Erik | um |
| 20:05.18 | ``Erik | it doesn't start on, uh, the middle penguin, either |
| 20:05.23 | ``Erik | which is a 7.10.4 distribution |
| 20:07.06 | ``Erik | hm, started there, but locked up |
| 20:17.41 | ``Erik | and it just plain doesn't work right there, heh |
| 20:17.46 | ``Erik | wow :) |
| 20:18.46 | *** join/#brlcad CIA-33 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 20:24.21 | ``Erik | wow |
| 20:24.30 | ``Erik | that's bitrot and a half *sigh* |
| 20:27.01 | brlcad | it's not rotted.. it was originally implemented that way ;) |
| 20:27.16 | brlcad | it's just not got any better either |
| 20:27.26 | brlcad | most of the problems are build setup, though |
| 20:28.14 | brlcad | not actually in rtwizard .. rtwizard's biggest downside is that it was easier to add menu hooks instead of forward/backward button panels for the steps .. so it's rather counter-intuitive for the new user |
| 20:28.20 | brlcad | but it does do the trick |
| 20:38.31 | ``Erik | heh |
| 20:38.50 | ``Erik | changing settings updates the wireframe view, but does not change the rendered view. |
| 20:39.23 | ``Erik | namely the perspective big... ortho is counterintuitive I think |
| 20:39.26 | ``Erik | bit |
| 20:43.15 | brlcad | brlcad.org is now migrated |
| 20:43.19 | ``Erik | w00t |
| 20:43.59 | alex_joni | whee |
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| 21:15.56 | ``Erik | http://www.reuters.com/article/oddlyEnoughNews/idUSL0552076620080305?feedType=RSS&feedName=oddlyEnoughNews&rpc=22&sp=true |
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