| 00:27.13 | *** part/#brlcad sCOTTo (n=scott@124-170-152-139.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 01:36.10 | *** join/#brlcad DaytonaJohn (n=jra@c-68-55-36-65.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 02:34.49 | brlcad | howdy DaytonaJohn |
| 02:49.08 | PrezKennedy | howdy brlcad :) |
| 03:01.08 | DaytonaJohn | hi, I was surfing |
| 03:04.13 | DaytonaJohn | brlcad: Are you there? |
| 03:11.43 | *** join/#brlcad starseeker (n=CY@c-68-33-217-173.hsd1.md.comcast.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 03:36.01 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) |
| 03:53.59 | brlcad | oops, daytona be gone |
| 03:54.05 | PrezKennedy | he ran away! |
| 05:59.23 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@217-162-111-176.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 06:21.02 | brlcad | heya pacman87, how's the primitive going? |
| 06:21.32 | pacman87 | still working on it |
| 06:21.43 | brlcad | what kind of notification(s) do you get when your app is updated? |
| 06:21.44 | pacman87 | i might not have time to do full integration |
| 06:23.20 | pacman87 | email sent to my gmail account |
| 06:23.33 | pacman87 | which i dont' check all that often |
| 06:24.42 | pacman87 | the GSoC site still just says 'ranking in progress' |
| 06:24.49 | pacman87 | no mention of the new comment |
| 06:26.08 | brlcad | well, you have a question :) |
| 06:26.21 | pacman87 | yeah, i'm reading/responding now |
| 06:35.52 | CIA-20 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30638 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Switch from attempt at derivative fixing to additional point measurement. |
| 06:35.53 | brlcad | cool |
| 06:36.04 | brlcad | heh |
| 06:38.16 | starseeker | figures that's easier than figuring out the doggone derivative mess... |
| 06:38.43 | starseeker | does it create the example for you brlcad? |
| 06:39.07 | starseeker | should look a bit more like a tire should now |
| 06:42.52 | brlcad | can't look at it atm |
| 06:43.09 | starseeker | np |
| 06:43.55 | starseeker | it's still just a shape tweak, no tread yet |
| 06:44.19 | starseeker | really should sleep now... |
| 06:53.49 | *** join/#brlcad spike_ (i=[U2FsdGV@centaur.acm.jhu.edu) |
| 06:54.14 | spike_ | quick Q, when exactly is the GSoC app due tomorrow? 5pm west coast time? |
| 07:02.19 | brlcad | heh |
| 07:02.43 | brlcad | have to check the timeline |
| 07:03.15 | brlcad | it is a firm deadline unlike homework assigments, nothing we can do about it :P |
| 07:03.30 | spike_ | haha, true |
| 07:04.13 | spike_ | brlcad: could i ask you a quick question? |
| 07:04.32 | brlcad | ~ask |
| 07:04.33 | ibot | Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there, just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily or against our will. |
| 07:05.02 | spike_ | heh |
| 07:05.34 | *** join/#brlcad paulproteus (n=paulprot@wide-rose.makesad.us) |
| 07:05.40 | paulproteus | waves to spike_ |
| 07:06.16 | spike_ | kicks Asheesh |
| 07:06.21 | paulproteus | Zing! |
| 07:06.22 | brlcad | makehappy, not makesad |
| 07:06.29 | spike_ | lol |
| 07:06.55 | spike_ | so anyways, my question is about expat and the fcollada library |
| 07:08.14 | spike_ | i *think* if i were to write a colldada converter, i would first use expat (and xml parser) to get a document tree, then i would use the fcollada utility to get the 'objects' out of the tree |
| 07:08.33 | spike_ | but i'm not really sure how they are different |
| 07:10.01 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 07:10.08 | paulproteus | brlcad, Nice to see you, too. (-; |
| 07:10.10 | brlcad | i'm not familiar with fcollada |
| 07:10.25 | brlcad | at least not beyond what it basically is and does |
| 07:10.40 | brlcad | whether it includes its own parser or not, the license they use, etc |
| 07:12.20 | spike_ | roger |
| 07:12.38 | paulproteus | The license compatibility question is a big one. |
| 07:13.27 | clock_ | paulproteus: problems with compatibility between a licence of brlcad and another program? |
| 07:13.43 | spike_ | pretty sure expat is open source |
| 07:14.00 | spike_ | not so sure about fcollada |
| 07:14.40 | paulproteus | http://www.feelingsoftware.com/content/view/55/72 indicates it's under the MIT License, that's good news. |
| 07:14.50 | spike_ | smiles |
| 07:15.36 | spike_ | so i think im good to go |
| 07:15.45 | spike_ | in the license department |
| 07:15.52 | brlcad | mit is fine |
| 07:16.01 | paulproteus | fcollada seems to use the libxml2 XML parser, so you won't need to separately use something like expat, it looks like. |
| 07:16.22 | brlcad | wonders if paulproteus is going to write it for him too :) |
| 07:17.02 | spike_ | shakes his head, no! |
| 07:17.10 | brlcad | :) |
| 07:17.14 | paulproteus | Nah, I'm just here for moral support and IRC chat. |
| 07:17.31 | paulproteus | I'll have enough GSoC apps to read as mentor for CC. |
| 07:18.32 | brlcad | good ol commons |
| 07:19.52 | paulproteus | (-: |
| 07:24.43 | paulproteus | Burly CAD |
| 07:25.02 | paulproteus | /join #grlcad |
| 07:25.48 | brlcad | heh |
| 07:28.16 | pacman87 | girly CAD? |
| 07:28.48 | brlcad | lolcads |
| 07:29.36 | pacman87 | im in ur .g, sweepin ur primitives |
| 07:30.44 | spike_ | laughs |
| 07:31.29 | brlcad | hehe |
| 07:31.41 | paulproteus | It's getting late, so I'm going to go and sweep. |
| 07:31.48 | brlcad | cheers |
| 07:32.06 | spike_ | cya paulproteus |
| 07:32.25 | pacman87 | i read that as 'brlcad cheers', not 'brlcad: cheers' |
| 07:35.10 | brlcad | cheers: pacman87 |
| 07:35.53 | spike_ | realizes this is probably what usually happens as it gets later and later |
| 07:37.15 | pacman87 | i should go to bed, but i'm a page deep in vector calculations, and i don't want to start over to figure out where i was and where i was going tomorrow |
| 07:38.04 | brlcad | spike_: nah, it's like this most of the time, just the topic changes or it's quiet ;) |
| 07:38.34 | brlcad | grumbles at an applicant wasting his time being lazy |
| 07:40.26 | spike_ | :-D |
| 07:41.44 | spike_ | who ya grumblin at brlcad? |
| 07:42.26 | brlcad | big hint: if I leave a comment asking for more detail .. it probably means you should provide more detail instead of giving me a mouthful about your "working principle" that amounts to blind faith |
| 07:43.41 | brlcad | just grumbling at an applicant that isn't going to get slotted |
| 07:43.46 | paulproteus | Heh. |
| 07:44.27 | paulproteus | Other hint: If you don't know what more details should be given, ask! |
| 07:44.55 | brlcad | he was told specific areas even |
| 07:44.59 | paulproteus | It's amazing how people would rather just fill text in a form rather than actually talk to the people evaluating their applications. |
| 07:45.04 | paulproteus | brlcad, Gack. |
| 07:45.15 | paulproteus | Sounds like you give better feedback than we have been then. (-; |
| 07:45.22 | spike_ | lol |
| 07:45.23 | brlcad | i read them all in detail |
| 07:45.33 | brlcad | and at least try to reply in detail |
| 07:45.48 | clock_ | forms are a sign of bureaucratization of society |
| 07:46.02 | paulproteus | clock_, People preferring forms to chat is the sign, really. |
| 07:46.08 | brlcad | even for the "bad" ones, as everyone gets at least one get-out-of-jail card |
| 07:46.16 | paulproteus | That's very friendly of you. (-: |
| 07:46.25 | clock_ | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureaucratization |
| 07:46.37 | spike_ | hey brlcad |
| 07:46.43 | brlcad | yeah, I'm always amazed by very detailed applications from people that I've never heard a single word from before their submission |
| 07:46.55 | spike_ | if i submitted now would i perhaps see feedback before the deadline tomorrow? |
| 07:47.15 | spike_ | ive been kind of holding out because ive been wanting to research and look up stuff more... |
| 07:47.16 | clock_ | are they submissions for the GSoC? |
| 07:47.23 | spike_ | wish i had known you gave feedback |
| 07:47.27 | spike_ | yeah |
| 07:47.42 | clock_ | it's heavily underpaid isn't it? |
| 07:48.01 | paulproteus | clock_, You say that because you don't know how much CC pays our summer interns. |
| 07:48.04 | brlcad | spike_: depends on the content |
| 07:48.07 | clock_ | like a student summer job? |
| 07:48.12 | clock_ | paulproteus: CC? |
| 07:48.33 | paulproteus | creativecommons.org; we have IRL tech interns as well as some GSoC people. |
| 07:48.45 | clock_ | Do CC pay even less? |
| 07:48.58 | paulproteus | Aye, there's the rub. |
| 07:49.43 | spike_ | brlcad: ok, if you did reply though would it be through email |
| 07:49.49 | clock_ | Aren't you worried that people who are willing to work for underpaid wage will not be the very good ones? |
| 07:50.00 | brlcad | spike_: not likely |
| 07:50.13 | spike_ | on chat then? |
| 07:50.27 | pacman87 | spike_: comments on your app will send an email to your gmail account |
| 07:50.30 | brlcad | if I have to e-mail, it's a last resort just in case the web app didn't send a notice |
| 07:50.39 | spike_ | kk |
| 07:50.55 | brlcad | the web app isn't entirely reliable at times |
| 07:51.13 | pacman87 | unfortunately, they don't change the status to 'unread comments' |
| 07:53.09 | paulproteus | clock_, It's a reasonable thing to worry about... |
| 07:53.17 | brlcad | throws in the towel for the day after 16 hours of reading and commenting |
| 07:54.07 | pacman87 | that's dedication |
| 07:56.14 | brlcad | clock_: i wouldn't be -- there are plenty of high-demand CS jobs where applicants line up and are willing to be an intern for *free* for the chance to get noticed and become hired down the road |
| 07:57.15 | clock_ | brlcad: then you have a different situation than here |
| 07:57.22 | brlcad | there's also plenty of college jobs that pay both more and less -- I got paid less than GSoC my first couple years as a student |
| 07:57.25 | clock_ | Here we are scarce and we select where we want to go |
| 07:57.35 | paulproteus | I think the good ones are scarce. |
| 07:57.45 | paulproteus | 6/8 of the CC intern applicants were pretty terrible. |
| 07:57.51 | clock_ | and make goofy faces if the workplace doesn't have enough flowers, bad view etc. |
| 07:57.54 | paulproteus | checks if this is publicly logged |
| 07:57.58 | brlcad | then later got paid much much more, but had gsoc been around, I would have gladly been interested in participating -- the experience is rather unique |
| 07:57.59 | pacman87 | brlcad: wouldn't that be for jobs with low demand? |
| 07:58.05 | paulproteus | Okay, wow re: bad view, enough flowers. |
| 07:58.24 | paulproteus | Luckily the other two applicants were actually pretty great. |
| 07:58.44 | spike_ | submitted application |
| 07:58.50 | brlcad | pacman87: er, I guess I meant from the employer's perspective -- they'll have just one or two internships a year, hundreds of applicants |
| 07:59.16 | clock_ | do you have a high rate of unemployment in the US? |
| 07:59.28 | clock_ | Because of the collapse of the subprime mortgages? |
| 07:59.36 | brlcad | heh |
| 08:00.04 | paulproteus | Not yet, at least. |
| 08:00.28 | clock_ | Like there was an article in Czech news today or yesterday that it pays off for wealthier Czech citizens to buy off some cheap properties on Florida! |
| 08:01.05 | clock_ | But some people in the discussion pointed out there are hurricanes |
| 08:01.08 | brlcad | not really a high rate in the least |
| 08:01.13 | brlcad | something like 5% |
| 08:01.48 | clock_ | What an absurd idea - post-communist Czech would buy off properties in the always economically strong (discutably former) beacon of democracy! |
| 08:01.50 | brlcad | czech is probably on par or higher if I had to guess |
| 08:01.52 | clock_ | Our worlds are changing |
| 08:02.08 | paulproteus | Our words are changing. |
| 08:02.12 | brlcad | yeah, 6.6 per 2007 |
| 08:02.14 | clock_ | yes :) |
| 08:02.46 | clock_ | or there was an article the most modern trains rolling around Zurich are actually built in Prague |
| 08:03.01 | clock_ | shiny new silent doubledecker trains |
| 08:04.03 | pacman87 | finished my vector calculations, it's 3am, goodnight |
| 08:04.09 | brlcad | cya pacman87 ! |
| 08:04.31 | pacman87 | cheers |
| 08:06.11 | spike_ | 4am here |
| 08:06.17 | spike_ | /yawn |
| 08:06.28 | paulproteus | Congrats pacman87, good night! |
| 08:12.02 | spike_ | alright well, i'm ridiculously tired, i'll probably be around tomorrow after one of my tests. gnight all |
| 08:12.11 | paulproteus | Okay, that's enough for this day for real. |
| 08:12.15 | paulproteus | vanishes in a puff of smoke |
| 08:15.01 | brlcad | :) |
| 08:15.15 | brlcad | snickers |
| 08:15.32 | clock_ | vanishes in a rain of anvils and pianoes |
| 09:23.59 | *** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@elnet-111.lip.pt) |
| 09:26.38 | *** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@elnet-111.lip.pt) |
| 09:27.21 | mafm | hi |
| 11:25.33 | *** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 11:42.36 | *** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6) |
| 12:14.10 | brlcad | hey mafm d_rossberg |
| 12:16.21 | d_rossberg | huhu |
| 12:18.39 | pacman87 | d_rossberg: i replied to your comment |
| 12:22.36 | d_rossberg | pacman87: i've read your answer and replied to it :) |
| 12:25.47 | pacman87 | d_rossberg: thanks for the reply. i've got to run now, but i'll answer fully later |
| 12:26.37 | d_rossberg | no problem, same to me |
| 13:00.43 | *** join/#brlcad MTee (n=MT@41.233.136.19) |
| 13:00.57 | MTee | Hello |
| 13:02.10 | mafm | yo |
| 13:03.44 | MTee | I want to know something that's really confusing me .. am i required to know "all the stuff" before actually sending the application ? |
| 13:04.30 | *** join/#brlcad camcorder (n=draco@81.213.157.51) |
| 13:04.51 | camcorder | hi |
| 13:05.01 | MTee | or am i allowed to state in my application that there are some topics that i'm going to learn about ? |
| 13:05.28 | camcorder | i'm postulating about web-based solid geometry model repository idea |
| 13:05.51 | camcorder | it looks like late but I just finished my exams |
| 13:06.12 | camcorder | my question is, I'm also thinking implementing 'ready object' importing from this repository |
| 13:06.30 | camcorder | but that might be fairly overbloated from the initial idea |
| 13:09.01 | MTee | are there any mentors here ? |
| 13:13.34 | MTee | what are the "Hacking" rules ? |
| 13:20.03 | *** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@203.200.95.130) |
| 13:43.57 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54873C4F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:56.28 | brlcad | MTee: of course not, but that doesn't prevent any applicant from providing a lot of idea about the topic at hand, paths for implementation, and doing some basic homework to see how that fits in with BRL-CAD |
| 13:57.07 | brlcad | camcorder: what is ready object importing? |
| 13:57.47 | camcorder | brlcad, ie. importing a solid design from repository (as in you can do importing code snipplets) |
| 14:00.49 | ``Erik | "hacking rules"? |
| 14:01.26 | brlcad | camcorder: for what it's worth -- there are more submissions for the web-based solid model repository than for any other idea, and most of them fail to impress -- I'd encourage considering other topics (or coming up with a really damn good proposal for that idea) |
| 14:02.53 | camcorder | brlcad, well I'm actually studying computer engineering, and would like to specialize on CAD software |
| 14:03.19 | camcorder | i've tried brlcad in past, and regular user of Autocad, Cad key for various other stuff |
| 14:03.48 | camcorder | i've never coded for a CAD software before, however i think GSoC would be a good entry point for me |
| 14:04.08 | camcorder | i wish I had my exams finished earlier and (I heard GSoC earlier) than we could discuss it even more |
| 14:04.42 | camcorder | brlcad, is there any idea that you would suggest me? for an entry level CAD software developer |
| 14:04.49 | brlcad | yeah, submitting this late is going to make it a lot harder to polish up the application -- it puts a lot more work into your hands without much time for feedback |
| 14:05.05 | *** join/#brlcad prasad_ (n=psilva@70.108.244.218) |
| 14:05.41 | brlcad | not really, there are ideas on the page that span from very basic to rather hard -- depends on your coding and math experience |
| 14:05.46 | brlcad | howdy psilva |
| 14:06.45 | brlcad | ~tickle prasad_ |
| 14:06.45 | ibot | ACTION jumps on prasad_, yelling "TICKLE FIGHT!!!!" |
| 14:08.41 | ``Erik | <-- covers his innocent eyes |
| 14:08.42 | brlcad | i just wouldn't recommend the web repository idea -- it's been proposed to death (probably because people "get it") |
| 14:09.02 | prasad_ | hey hey |
| 14:09.04 | camcorder | i'm afraid yeah |
| 14:09.12 | camcorder | brlcad, what about dwg importer? |
| 14:09.22 | camcorder | or converter |
| 14:09.24 | brlcad | but they don't get what is involved or how to sell it or implement it (so far) |
| 14:10.03 | camcorder | if you're here, can we discuss on my proposal? |
| 14:10.05 | brlcad | camcorder: how would you propose doing that? |
| 14:10.27 | camcorder | brlcad, dwg converter? |
| 14:10.31 | brlcad | yep |
| 14:10.45 | camcorder | (totally assumption) |
| 14:10.50 | camcorder | dwg specs are open |
| 14:10.59 | camcorder | (that's not an assumption) |
| 14:11.03 | brlcad | 'orly' |
| 14:11.18 | camcorder | orly? |
| 14:12.23 | SongOfTheWaves | brlcad: may I propose a web repository idea? (I actually don't know what it is) |
| 14:12.34 | SongOfTheWaves | I guess it's some kind of toolshed where you store webs? |
| 14:12.41 | SongOfTheWaves | Spider web repository? |
| 14:12.42 | brlcad | basically |
| 14:13.03 | brlcad | more of a bike shed |
| 14:13.34 | ``Erik | you can propose anything you want, the web repository one has several proposals already, though, so it'd be... competitive :) |
| 14:14.54 | MTee | what about the geometry converter ? |
| 14:15.41 | brlcad | what about it? |
| 14:15.53 | MTee | are there many proposals ? |
| 14:17.00 | camcorder | brlcad, isn't it possible to implement dwg specification? |
| 14:17.25 | camcorder | brlcad, of course it would be very optimistic to expect 100% compatibility in 3 months |
| 14:17.35 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@78.134.198.227) |
| 14:17.37 | MTee | I meant the "New geometry converter", specifically .dwg or .3ds |
| 14:17.38 | camcorder | brlcad, but that would be a very beginning |
| 14:17.44 | brlcad | MTee: not too many -- but it will be a bit tricky -- the ones that are most important are very hard, so the application would have to show strong competence and a good plan |
| 14:18.18 | mafm | bike shed? I suggest blue! |
| 14:18.26 | brlcad | camcorder: it's all just code, anything is possible - or at least anything can be faked with a good demo :) |
| 14:18.30 | ``Erik | would hope all proposals indicate strong competence and have a good plan O.o |
| 14:18.34 | brlcad | ~mafm++ |
| 14:18.35 | ``Erik | no way, paint it clear! |
| 14:19.05 | mafm | what's that ~ thing? is to give me points for ibot? :D |
| 14:19.37 | MTee | what are some of the basic project ideas ? |
| 14:19.41 | brlcad | camcorder: at this late, I'm not going to go into the history of why there is no (osi) open source dwg library -- but you'd have to speak to that |
| 14:20.01 | camcorder | license issues? |
| 14:20.01 | brlcad | how it'd relate, where and how you're getting your information |
| 14:20.21 | camcorder | or god damn patent issue? |
| 14:20.49 | ``Erik | http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas |
| 14:21.26 | MTee | brlcad : what are the ideas that are considered basic and require familiarity with C ? |
| 14:21.49 | brlcad | if you're not aware of that mired history, that'd probably be another one I'd say stay away from just because I can't see you formulating a strong proposal without that background knowledge (though it can be acquired just by a few quick searches) |
| 14:22.00 | brlcad | MTee: ... did you read the page? |
| 14:22.23 | ``Erik | ahummmm |
| 14:23.45 | brlcad | damn, permissions on ~dirs is busted |
| 14:23.59 | brlcad | bad sean, no donut for you |
| 14:24.08 | ``Erik | yeah |
| 14:24.12 | ``Erik | I was looking at that myself |
| 14:24.20 | ``Erik | what'd ya do? |
| 14:24.59 | MTee | brlcad : I've read it .. and thought the geometry converter was something good to learn on .. but you said it's tricky .. so what are the pojects that are considered to be basic ? |
| 14:25.32 | brlcad | that's really wierd |
| 14:25.48 | ``Erik | was the apache config modified? |
| 14:26.03 | ``Erik | now it seems to work |
| 14:26.10 | ``Erik | http://bzflag.bz/~sean/ideas.html |
| 14:26.23 | brlcad | ``Erik: the userdir directive .. I'd changed it to /usr/home/*/public_html .. that *doesn't* work .. but does when I change it back to what it was. /home/*/public_html |
| 14:27.02 | ``Erik | huh, odd |
| 14:27.05 | ``Erik | uhmmm |
| 14:27.06 | brlcad | which makes no sense, I see no other directive for /usr/home that would prevent Indices |
| 14:27.45 | MTee | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:27.46 | brlcad | anyways, who cares, it's fixed |
| 14:27.54 | ``Erik | wonder if it uses the systems concept of home? like if you put it back to /usr/home/*/public_html in the config and changed your home dir in passwd to /usr/home/xxx ? |
| 14:28.22 | brlcad | MTee: it is something good to learn on -- that doesn't mean it's not a lot of work though (depending on the converter) :) |
| 14:28.42 | brlcad | the most valued converters are rather hard |
| 14:28.55 | ``Erik | I d'no |
| 14:29.20 | brlcad | step, iges, dwg .. |
| 14:29.22 | ``Erik | I think a pov converter or various video game formats would be nice |
| 14:29.54 | MTee | brlcad : so what would you suggest for me to propose on ? |
| 14:29.57 | brlcad | ``Erik: apache is all directory/file-based -- it should be a literal directory rule that makes /usr/home not work, or some other /home rule I'm not finding that makes it work |
| 14:31.20 | ``Erik | mtee: only you know your ability and interest, we can answer specific questions about BRL-CAD, but we cannot think for you :( |
| 14:31.23 | brlcad | MTee: I'd suggest reading through the ideas list in detail and seeing what strongly catches your attention :) ... |
| 14:31.40 | brlcad | exactly -- I don't know you or your skills at this point to make a valid recommendation |
| 14:31.55 | brlcad | the list already says what's important and what sorts of skills are required |
| 14:39.03 | brlcad | hmm.. I need some tool that can watch several dozen httpd log files, make it really easy to provide ignore pattern exemptions, and report all non-200 non-spam queries |
| 14:39.38 | brlcad | something I could run in screen with an interactive curses console would be cool |
| 14:39.50 | MTee | brlcad, Erik : So if I have the skills required for a certain project .. what would probably lead to my proposal being refused ? |
| 14:40.04 | brlcad | a piss poor proposal? |
| 14:40.30 | brlcad | not agreeing to the development requirements |
| 14:40.42 | brlcad | s/development/application/ |
| 14:41.12 | SongOfTheWaves | would like BRL-CAD not to suddenly render 210x times slower than normal in his headcut.g model |
| 14:41.37 | brlcad | SongOfTheWaves: that task believe it or not is actually on the ideas list |
| 14:41.48 | SongOfTheWaves | believes not |
| 14:41.49 | brlcad | not a single submission for it yet, but it's there |
| 14:42.07 | ``Erik | hehehe |
| 14:42.10 | SongOfTheWaves | brlcad: what's the technical name of the cause of the problem? |
| 14:42.10 | ``Erik | GOTOs don't kill applications- Programmers kill applications. |
| 14:42.46 | SongOfTheWaves | Telling a good programmer not to use GOTO |
| 14:42.53 | SongOfTheWaves | is like telling Jay Adams how he should skate. |
| 14:43.12 | brlcad | SongOfTheWaves: it's hinted at in the csg optimizations |
| 14:43.22 | SongOfTheWaves | We've 910 gotos in the links. |
| 14:43.55 | SongOfTheWaves | brlcad: I appreciate you take the user feedback this seriously |
| 14:44.52 | brlcad | feel the love |
| 14:45.00 | brlcad | though it's not just for you of course :) |
| 14:45.26 | brlcad | the point is to develop a CAD system that everyone loves |
| 14:46.22 | ``Erik | mtee: bad proposal, lack of a realizable plan, having someone propose the same thing as you but better, ... |
| 14:46.59 | ``Erik | imagines that if we have, say, 6 proposals for the same idea, like, say, the web repo... only one will be on the short list handed to google for slot allocation O.o |
| 14:47.32 | ``Erik | even if the two best proposals are for that task |
| 14:47.44 | ``Erik | brlcad? |
| 14:47.58 | ``Erik | <-- never done this before, is mostly guessing :D |
| 14:48.52 | mafm | Google allows redundancy, but probably people tends to avoid it -- unless there's no other choice, I guess |
| 14:51.32 | SongOfTheWaves | brlcad: like the hippies in the 1969? |
| 14:51.41 | SongOfTheWaves | BRL-CAD specified to *be* *loved*? |
| 14:52.26 | SongOfTheWaves | That's an approach I approve! |
| 14:53.09 | SongOfTheWaves | LSD - Love and Solid Decomposition |
| 14:54.38 | brlcad | ``Erik: yeah, pretty much |
| 14:55.16 | brlcad | so if you're doubling up with another proposal that is already submitted, you're not only competiting against the other submissions, you have to be "best of breed" for that idea |
| 14:56.06 | brlcad | we're only asking for 2-4 slots at most, they're not going to be for the same idea no matter how good the proposals |
| 14:56.56 | SongOfTheWaves | brlcad: I should be able to release the Ronja 3D models videos soon, I think I have even already fixed the final credits with the can-get-permission music |
| 14:57.05 | SongOfTheWaves | videos -> video |
| 14:57.26 | brlcad | cool |
| 14:58.22 | *** join/#brlcad andrecastelo (n=chatzill@189.71.7.20) |
| 14:58.28 | andrecastelo | good morning everyone |
| 14:58.45 | andrecastelo | hey hippieindamakin8 , brlcad , mafm |
| 14:58.46 | SongOfTheWaves | brlcad: but it's not aliased because of the 210x slowdown on one or more models |
| 14:58.52 | ``Erik | waits for a photon mapped perspective fly-through of a ronja scene :D |
| 14:59.01 | SongOfTheWaves | brlcad: maybe it could be later possible to rerun it on your supercomputers to make it aliased and look great |
| 14:59.08 | SongOfTheWaves | cause now you see the alias artifacts run around |
| 14:59.23 | SongOfTheWaves | aliased -> antialiased |
| 14:59.51 | SongOfTheWaves | brlcad: I bought a Core 2 Duo 2x2.2GHz (before had 1x1.5GHz Pentium M) and it didn't help much :) |
| 14:59.56 | SongOfTheWaves | :) -> :( |
| 15:00.23 | SongOfTheWaves | ``Erik: is photon mapping computationally expensive? |
| 15:01.11 | alex_joni | I imagine the travel speed might be an issue |
| 15:01.29 | MTee | Erick, brlcad : what if i decided that I need to work more on my skills .. should I still sendan application or just wait till next year ? |
| 15:01.59 | mafm | hi andrecastelo |
| 15:02.47 | SongOfTheWaves | If I don't specify anything and just rt, that's not photon mapping or is it, right? |
| 15:04.56 | camcorder | brlcad, i've submitted my proposal from "Onur Topsakal" |
| 15:06.15 | brlcad | SongOfTheWaves: you mean it's not anti-aliased? :) |
| 15:06.20 | brlcad | not being aliased is a good thing :) |
| 15:07.15 | brlcad | ah, you did correct yourself, hehe .. /me catches up |
| 15:07.35 | brlcad | MTee: send it in, you never know |
| 15:07.46 | SongOfTheWaves | rt by default doesn't do photon mapping, does it? |
| 15:07.49 | brlcad | i'll let you know if the chances aren't good |
| 15:08.22 | brlcad | SongOfTheWaves: photon mapping is very expensive and requires some model preparation (putting the model into a box with light sources) |
| 15:08.38 | brlcad | but rt does have the option by default, lighting mode 7 |
| 15:08.56 | SongOfTheWaves | which lighting mode is the default? |
| 15:09.20 | brlcad | 0 ? |
| 15:09.36 | brlcad | or 1, don't remember |
| 15:09.54 | brlcad | 0 |
| 15:10.08 | SongOfTheWaves | Which one has the highest realism? |
| 15:11.16 | brlcad | photon mapping performs a global illumination simulation so IFF you set up your scene appropriately, it will generally look much better, much more realistic |
| 15:12.03 | brlcad | (and take 100x longer to render, compared to path tracing which takes about 10000x times longer) |
| 15:12.23 | camcorder | brlcad, thanks for guidance, hope my proposal is chosen and would work together |
| 15:16.11 | SongOfTheWaves | brlcad: path tracing is even more realistic than photon mapping? |
| 15:16.25 | brlcad | to give folks an idea of what an excellent proposal looks like, here's one received for BZFlag: http://my.bzflag.org/w/User:Jude- None received for brl-cad are quite that good so you shouldn't be discouraged, but you are encouraged to put in a lot of detail about your idea. |
| 15:16.57 | brlcad | SongOfTheWaves: usually, it's a brute force solution to the render equation |
| 15:17.29 | brlcad | the image of stryker in a field of grass is a path-traced image |
| 15:18.35 | *** join/#brlcad spik1 (n=spike@fomalhaut.acm.jhu.edu) |
| 15:18.36 | brlcad | i.e. http://brlcad.org/gallery/s/renderings/stryker_slat.jpg.html and http://brlcad.org/gallery/s/renderings/humvee.png.html |
| 15:18.57 | SongOfTheWaves | brlcad: writing a proposal like this which includes an analysis of a problem is already quite some work and there is a risk you take the analysis, reject his proposal and use the work he did to program according to his analysis and save your work on his behalf. |
| 15:19.15 | SongOfTheWaves | brlcad: so I am not surprised people don't generally send such sophisticated proposals |
| 15:20.06 | SongOfTheWaves | brlcad: but is path tracing more realistic than photon mapping? Or less? Or the same? |
| 15:20.23 | SongOfTheWaves | All I understand from your reply is that path tracing is much slower than P. M. |
| 15:23.24 | brlcad | SongOfTheWaves: heh, I'd call BS .. most core devs have thought through the idea being proposed many orders of magnitude more than the person submitting the proposal -- and the point isn't to get something done, it's to attract new *developers* to the project |
| 15:23.56 | brlcad | what they actually propose is almost irrelevant beyond the applicant showing basic understanding and respect for the current priorities of the project |
| 15:24.07 | CIA-20 | BRL-CAD: 03louipc * r30639 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/archlinux/PKGBUILD: Remove extra options from build() |
| 15:24.15 | SongOfTheWaves | brlcad: I am already attracted and would develop for living, but it's not organizationally possible |
| 15:24.19 | brlcad | otherwise, having a detailed application goes a really long ways towards showing that they are serious about working with the project and that they work hard |
| 15:24.24 | SongOfTheWaves | brlcad: so do you expect to attract volunteers? |
| 15:25.20 | SongOfTheWaves | brlcad: or people who have more bureaucratically favourable constellation circumstances? |
| 15:25.23 | brlcad | i entirely do hope to attract new long-term brl-cad developers, that is the PRIMARY goal of GSoC across the board |
| 15:25.43 | SongOfTheWaves | brlcad: you need people who live in the US? |
| 15:25.47 | brlcad | the money is just an incentive to give people that otherwise still need to pay bills a means to get started |
| 15:25.53 | brlcad | but it is still just a getting started point |
| 15:26.29 | brlcad | SongOfTheWaves: it sounds like you know very little to nothing about GSoC :) .. no you don't need to be in the US, most aren't in the US |
| 15:26.48 | SongOfTheWaves | brlcad: I don't mean for the GSoC, I mean for BRL-CAD |
| 15:27.35 | brlcad | spik1: comment preferred for any responses -- you should also be able to edit your proposal if you decide you want to add more detail |
| 15:28.10 | brlcad | SongOfTheWaves: why would we need people who live in the US? it's an open source project, anyone can contribute whenever they like |
| 15:28.19 | brlcad | from wherever |
| 15:28.32 | SongOfTheWaves | brlcad: I can't contribute in my working hours |
| 15:28.44 | SongOfTheWaves | so not quite whenever I like |
| 15:28.56 | spik1 | yeah thanks i saw it |
| 15:29.28 | brlcad | SongOfTheWaves: you "can", but there would be consequences for your situation perhaps |
| 15:29.33 | SongOfTheWaves | brlcad: so you are looking for volunteers because for some organizational reasons you are unable to pay people fulltime? |
| 15:30.04 | SongOfTheWaves | brlcad: yes there would be consequences for my ability to fill my fridge and to keep snow and rain off my head when sleeping |
| 15:30.07 | brlcad | still, I put in more than 60-80 hours a week most weeks NOT during working hours, so I don't have much sympathy .. there are 24 hours in a day :) |
| 15:30.28 | SongOfTheWaves | brlcad: yeah but your work doesn't suxx |
| 15:30.36 | SongOfTheWaves | cause it's not proprietary |
| 15:30.54 | ``Erik | *readreadread* |
| 15:31.34 | brlcad | SongOfTheWaves: i'm looking for volunteers simply because I want to make BRL-CAD better, by whatever means available -- open source is the best means to make that happen, benefits everyone, and has exceptionally low barriers to participate |
| 15:32.08 | ``Erik | y'know, I'm curious... we have the ability to render multiple frames in one run, so the prep time is just hit once... does photon mapping do its map generation in the prep phase? so a multi-frame render would only map once? |
| 15:32.21 | MTee | !deadline |
| 15:32.40 | SongOfTheWaves | ``Erik: is this valid also for the default rt lighting model? |
| 15:32.47 | SongOfTheWaves | Because I call rt separately for every frame |
| 15:33.01 | SongOfTheWaves | Would it speed up significantly if I somehow coerced rt into rendering all of them at once? |
| 15:33.18 | brlcad | ``Erik: yeah, the photon mapping is view independent during prep -- theoretically you'd amortize that cost with multiple frames |
| 15:33.43 | ``Erik | it does multiframe with the default model, but I doubt you have much prep overhead with the ronja models |
| 15:34.12 | brlcad | yeah, depends how much of that time is prep, it's in the log file output |
| 15:34.16 | ``Erik | 300 frame photon mapped flythrough, hummm :D |
| 15:34.25 | SongOfTheWaves | only 300? |
| 15:34.30 | SongOfTheWaves | That's 6 seconds with 50fps |
| 15:34.34 | SongOfTheWaves | or 5 seconds with 60fps |
| 15:34.39 | ``Erik | that's 20 seconds at 15fps |
| 15:34.45 | SongOfTheWaves | 15fps is jerky |
| 15:34.49 | ``Erik | 10 at 30fps |
| 15:35.17 | SongOfTheWaves | I consider 30fps still jerky |
| 15:35.24 | SongOfTheWaves | First 50fps I perceive as smooth |
| 15:35.40 | ``Erik | notes that cinema is 24fps |
| 15:36.12 | SongOfTheWaves | therefore cinema must be necessary jerky for me |
| 15:36.26 | ``Erik | iirc, each cell is moved at 24fps, and each cell is flashed twice to reduce the strobing effect |
| 15:36.49 | SongOfTheWaves | I heard even about flashing 3 times |
| 15:38.29 | SongOfTheWaves | Isn't like LCD refreshed only 30 times per ssecond? |
| 15:38.32 | ``Erik | could be, my cinema class was over a decade ago, and we still use ncst over here |
| 15:38.46 | SongOfTheWaves | Cause if I play kate Ryan - Libertine music video on an LCD the movement is like "dirty", unclear |
| 15:38.47 | ``Erik | depends on the lcd, some are around 50 or 60 I think |
| 15:38.55 | SongOfTheWaves | On a CRT it's like if I was watching the dancer in real. |
| 15:39.14 | SongOfTheWaves | Maybe it's because the LCD constructers chronically ignore the Shannon theorem |
| 15:39.39 | SongOfTheWaves | When thy don't bother with proper sampling of the input signal, why should they bother with proper sampling of the frames? |
| 15:39.53 | spik1 | has class, eep! |
| 15:39.56 | spik1 | bbl guy |
| 15:39.59 | spik1 | guys* |
| 15:40.12 | SongOfTheWaves | Changing the frame rate requires massive filtering otherwise you get temporal aliasing |
| 15:40.16 | brlcad | bbq spik |
| 15:40.35 | SongOfTheWaves | The worst case is some movies in the TV which were obviously resampled this badly so they jerk every Nth frame |
| 15:40.47 | SongOfTheWaves | so Superman is flying and I want to vomit seeing the picture |
| 15:41.10 | brlcad | don't sit so close :) |
| 15:41.13 | brlcad | take some dramamine |
| 15:41.16 | SongOfTheWaves | They have whole development departments to be able to produce it with such horrible quality |
| 15:42.05 | SongOfTheWaves | any geek would be able to stitch up a frame resampler in C in few hours |
| 15:42.17 | SongOfTheWaves | Not them with their huge udgets |
| 15:42.51 | SongOfTheWaves | On the other hand when they cannot even figure out the Y'CbCr right (cf. Hyperluma and Luminaplex), why would one expect them to figure out the frame resampling? |
| 15:49.26 | SongOfTheWaves | no antialiasing helps when the details of the rendered video are damaged by the commonly used brainless rgb ->ycbcr conversion |
| 15:49.31 | yukonbob | waves in |
| 15:49.42 | *** part/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096669639.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 15:51.13 | SongOfTheWaves | brlcad: I think I should add a BRL-CAD URL into the cerdits shouldn't I? |
| 15:51.25 | brlcad | surprising how many students don't realize they're being notified of submission updates at their gmail address that they rarely ever check ... set up a mail forward if you're not going to check it folks! |
| 15:51.31 | SongOfTheWaves | into the final credits of the movie |
| 15:51.56 | brlcad | SongOfTheWaves: that's entirely up to you, it would certainly be appreciated but far from necessary |
| 15:52.11 | SongOfTheWaves | brlcad: cause look from the point of view of the viewer |
| 15:52.29 | SongOfTheWaves | wohoo - a free 3D that can make pictures like this - I want to make too - but where do I download the darn thing ?!? |
| 15:53.32 | brlcad | the name and a quick web search should be enough to answer that question |
| 15:53.53 | brlcad | thinks SongOfTheWaves would like seeing some of the original brl-cad movies |
| 15:54.16 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54873C4F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:54.45 | prasad_ | is gvar still in the distro? |
| 15:54.59 | brlcad | prasad_: heh, yeah |
| 15:55.11 | brlcad | hasn't required any maintenance to preserve |
| 15:56.02 | prasad_ | need to change that to a new format |
| 15:56.03 | brlcad | also would probably serve as a good starting point for a g-ogl converter |
| 15:56.30 | prasad_ | add support to write out multiple varrs |
| 15:56.32 | brlcad | you still have commit access, go for it |
| 16:08.15 | SongOfTheWaves | brlcad: that's right people use web search today |
| 16:39.19 | PrezKennedy | brlcad, did you pull an all-nighter or do you just wake up ridiculously early? |
| 16:45.17 | pacman87 | why does the GSOC comment box have to be so tiny? |
| 17:06.45 | *** join/#brlcad starseeker (n=CY@c-68-33-217-173.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 17:15.10 | MTee | I need help compiling BRL-CAD |
| 17:15.31 | MTee | could anyone here help me please ? |
| 17:15.40 | pacman87 | ~ask |
| 17:15.40 | ibot | Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there, just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily or against our will. |
| 17:17.20 | MTee | pacman : could ou help me compile brL-cad ? |
| 17:18.36 | pacman87 | MTee: what specifically is going wrong? |
| 17:19.26 | MTee | don't know where to start |
| 17:20.40 | pacman87 | ~svn |
| 17:20.41 | ibot | Subversion (aka SVN) is version control software that aims to be a better CVS than CVS. See http://subversion.tigris.org/. |
| 17:21.00 | pacman87 | not what i wanted :( |
| 17:21.08 | pacman87 | MTee: download the source |
| 17:21.16 | MTee | I did |
| 17:21.21 | pacman87 | read the readme |
| 17:21.36 | MTee | pacman : thanks .. forgot to do so :) |
| 17:25.36 | MTee | pacman : isn't brl-cad supposed to be portable and run on either windows, mac or linux ? |
| 17:25.57 | brlcad | PrezKennedy: I often only sleep a couple hours in a given night |
| 17:26.31 | brlcad | pacman87: some (better) browsers let you resize those text boxes :) |
| 17:26.47 | pacman87 | brlcad: which ones? |
| 17:27.06 | pacman87 | lynx? |
| 17:27.08 | brlcad | heh |
| 17:27.13 | brlcad | probably not lynx |
| 17:27.35 | brlcad | though I admit I haven't tried recent versions of lynx |
| 17:27.37 | pacman87 | <3 lynx for helping me get X working on my first linux install |
| 17:28.13 | pacman87 | MTee: i believe so, what OS are you running? |
| 17:29.55 | MTee | pacman : now windows. .but looks like i'm going to reboot in ubuntu |
| 17:30.09 | pacman87 | there's no need to compile for windows |
| 17:30.59 | MTee | pacman : they said that it's required that i successfully compile and run the s/w, was this intended for linux/UNIX users only ?? |
| 17:31.31 | pacman87 | MTee: you're applying for GSoC? |
| 17:31.42 | MTee | yep .. |
| 17:32.04 | MTee | why ? |
| 17:32.38 | pacman87 | so am i :) |
| 17:33.09 | pacman87 | but yeah, i'd recommend compiling in linux |
| 17:33.12 | MTee | :) .. I postulated that |
| 17:33.14 | *** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 17:33.25 | pacman87 | hi d_rossberg |
| 17:33.49 | MTee | great .. thanks pacman :) |
| 17:33.55 | pacman87 | just posted a response |
| 17:36.14 | brlcad | MTee: README, INSTALL, HACKING <-- useful documentation .. |
| 17:38.42 | pacman87 | brlcad: what browser were you refering to earlier? |
| 17:38.59 | d_rossberg | pacman87: i just read it, thank you |
| 17:39.48 | pacman87 | d_rossberg: any more questions that would benefit from realtime communication? |
| 17:41.53 | d_rossberg | pacman87: questions: yes; however, i have to leave for today; i'll reply tomorrow |
| 17:42.22 | d_rossberg | it's an interesting topic |
| 17:43.10 | pacman87 | i've had quite a few different methods bouncing around my head since i started thinking about it |
| 17:43.18 | brlcad | pacman87: safari does this |
| 17:43.24 | brlcad | i believe there's an extension for firefox |
| 17:43.34 | pacman87 | uses opera |
| 17:43.35 | brlcad | https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/3818 |
| 17:44.59 | pacman87 | right in the middle of me typing a question for d_rossberg |
| 17:45.33 | brlcad | irc's really hard for some of the other devs :) |
| 17:45.50 | brlcad | to stay on-line -- they tend to be e-mail junkies |
| 17:46.02 | brlcad | mailing list of app comments are best |
| 17:46.30 | pacman87 | i prefer irc |
| 17:46.41 | brlcad | likewise |
| 17:46.58 | brlcad | can't really "require" folks use it though, not with our current developer base |
| 17:47.09 | pacman87 | much easier to ensure that your ideas are understood how you intend |
| 17:47.17 | pacman87 | when you have immediate feedback |
| 17:48.38 | brlcad | pacman87: have you looked at how the sketch+extrude primitives interact? |
| 17:48.57 | brlcad | they're very closely related to what you're proposing |
| 17:48.58 | pacman87 | no, that was my 'more research needed' line |
| 17:49.33 | brlcad | as extrude is basically a simple linear sweep, sketches are just 2D outlines |
| 17:50.36 | pacman87 | it would be trivial to add sketches to my method |
| 17:50.41 | brlcad | thinks it would be cool/better to be able to "extrude" *any* primitive, not just sketches |
| 17:50.52 | pacman87 | skip the 3D ->2D step |
| 17:51.01 | brlcad | yeah, sketches should be easier, just a subset |
| 17:53.03 | pacman87 | given his interest, i'm assuming d_rossberg could be my mentor? |
| 17:53.41 | brlcad | tbd |
| 17:53.57 | pacman87 | figured as much |
| 17:57.22 | pacman87 | goes to class, back in 5.5 hours |
| 18:03.32 | brlcad | cya |
| 18:31.52 | PrezKennedy | brlcad, i wish i could do that |
| 18:32.01 | PrezKennedy | im dead tired if i get less than 6 hours of sleep |
| 18:47.30 | *** join/#brlcad MTee (n=mt@41.233.147.212) |
| 18:50.58 | *** join/#brlcad mt__ (n=mt@41.233.147.212) |
| 18:51.09 | mt__ | ~svn |
| 18:51.10 | ibot | Subversion (aka SVN) is version control software that aims to be a better CVS than CVS. See http://subversion.tigris.org/. |
| 18:51.42 | mt__ | hello.. i'm having troubles compiling brlcad in ubuntu |
| 18:53.10 | brlcad | either download the source tarball (instead of svn checkout), install an unmodified GNU libtool (debian devs modify libtool and break it), or feel free to provide a suitable workaround patch :) |
| 18:55.30 | mt__ | I know I shouldn't have waited till the last minute .. but I won't be able to send the app except after 2 or 3 more hours .. big deal ? |
| 18:57.53 | brlcad | the sooner the better |
| 18:58.09 | brlcad | I have extra questions for the last-minute submitters |
| 18:58.55 | mt__ | brlcad : such as ? |
| 18:59.16 | brlcad | it'll be attached to your submission |
| 18:59.40 | brlcad | http://tinyurl.com/3tjkh8 tick tock |
| 19:02.03 | mafm | bye |
| 19:02.16 | brlcad | cya mafm |
| 19:05.53 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@217-162-108-27.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 19:15.52 | andrecastelo | brlcad: hey, in struct mater_info (raytrace.h) it has ma_color[3] and ma_temperature declared as floats.. wouldn't it be better if they were fastf_f ? |
| 19:17.16 | clock_ | brlcad: can it calculate also chromatic aberration - if yes what's the name of the appropriate lighting model? |
| 19:17.20 | clock_ | multispectral library? |
| 19:19.00 | brlcad | andrecastelo: these days probably -- most structs are intended to have fixed sizes for v4 serialization/format compatibility |
| 19:19.18 | brlcad | not compilation-dependent sizes (and fastf_t can change) |
| 19:19.37 | brlcad | would have to investigate how struct mater_info pertains to the v4 file format to change it |
| 19:22.30 | andrecastelo | i see |
| 19:37.52 | hippieindamakin8 | hey ppl |
| 19:42.36 | andrecastelo | hey hippieindamakin8 |
| 19:43.11 | andrecastelo | does BRL-CAD use Bidirectional Reflectance Distribution Function ?? |
| 19:49.28 | *** join/#brlcad spike1234124214 (n=spike@fomalhaut.acm.jhu.edu) |
| 19:54.56 | PrezKennedy | if i was still into programming, brlcad would be a cool mentor |
| 19:58.03 | yukonbob | PrezKennedy: get back into programming ;) |
| 19:58.42 | PrezKennedy | the only way i could see myself programming was if i was learning PHP to do a webapp of some sort |
| 20:00.51 | andrecastelo | PrezKennedy: why did you leave ? |
| 20:01.13 | yukonbob | PrezKennedy: why do you say on PHP? |
| 20:01.27 | PrezKennedy | andrecastelo, i think programming is incredibly boring ;) |
| 20:01.28 | yukonbob | *say only PHP |
| 20:01.42 | andrecastelo | PrezKennedy: :( it's awesome :( |
| 20:01.55 | PrezKennedy | yukonbob, first thing that came to mind... have had a little experience with it... could do python or something like that I guess |
| 20:01.57 | andrecastelo | but i won't argue :b |
| 20:02.39 | PrezKennedy | andrecastelo, i know some people enjoy it... i used to... but i like what i do now instead |
| 20:03.00 | yukonbob | PrezKennedy: ah -- and why do you say web-app, versus say, a desktop app or utility, or library code? |
| 20:08.18 | andrecastelo | PrezKennedy: and what is it you do now ? |
| 20:14.02 | prasad_ | programming is only fun if u like what u code |
| 20:14.07 | prasad_ | like not xml |
| 20:14.07 | prasad_ | .. |
| 20:14.30 | ``Erik | xml is like violence, if it doesn't work, use more of it |
| 20:14.31 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 20:15.12 | andrecastelo | ``Erik: hahaha |
| 20:16.47 | prasad_ | especially when implementing adobe's broken code |
| 20:16.49 | prasad_ | sigh |
| 20:23.44 | paulproteus | Jesus Christ, PHP?! |
| 20:23.52 | paulproteus | Of *course* programming is boring if you live in PHPland. |
| 20:24.14 | spike1234124214 | wave |
| 20:24.15 | ``Erik | http://blog.mlive.com/flintjournal/newsnow/2008/04/post_moto_kid_death_story_here.html |
| 20:24.16 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 20:35.15 | CIA-20 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30640 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Added inner solid fill for tire - next step is to provide proper 'cut out' shape. |
| 20:36.56 | brlcad | jeebus!.. the annual jpr cad report is 5k |
| 20:37.18 | brlcad | what a scam |
| 20:37.23 | ``Erik | that's it? I thought it costed six digits just to get a quote in this industry O.o |
| 20:37.37 | brlcad | http://www.jonpeddie.com/special/CAD_report.shtml |
| 20:37.51 | brlcad | 6 billion dollar industry this year |
| 20:39.21 | clock_ | brlcad: I have read that the worth of Linux kernel is 1 billion dollar |
| 20:40.15 | andrecastelo | hey brlcad .. does BRL-CAD use any kind of Bidirectional Reflectance Distribution Function?? |
| 20:40.27 | brlcad | sounds a bit exaggerated to me, clock_ |
| 20:40.42 | brlcad | business-wise, perhaps -- but not necessarily the code itself |
| 20:41.06 | brlcad | at least ohloh ranks them at under a 1/3 at a 100k salary |
| 20:41.33 | brlcad | andrecastelo: the phong model |
| 20:41.37 | brlcad | plastic shader |
| 20:42.20 | brlcad | shaders represent a BRDF response, there are a variety of shaders available (phong being the most prevalent) |
| 20:43.07 | brlcad | cook-torrence is also in there, but not well tested |
| 20:43.21 | brlcad | I use it when I need really pretty shiny glass |
| 20:43.48 | andrecastelo | hmm |
| 20:44.17 | brlcad | src/liboptical/sh_plastic.c for phong if you're looking for source ref |
| 20:44.28 | brlcad | the shaders are all in sh_*.c |
| 20:44.41 | andrecastelo | thanks i'll take a look |
| 20:44.51 | andrecastelo | i've updated my app though, hope i didn't miss anything |
| 20:44.57 | brlcad | k |
| 20:45.17 | brlcad | gets e-mails since he's commented on all of them |
| 20:45.48 | andrecastelo | brlcad: oh lol, forgot about that :b |
| 20:48.46 | brlcad | tis going to be a really tough selection -- there are at least six strong candidates (from my perspective, other mentors may vary) |
| 20:49.06 | *** join/#brlcad prasad_ (n=psilva@h-67-103-183-185.mclnva23.covad.net) |
| 20:49.23 | andrecastelo | brlcad: you should accept all six of them :b |
| 20:49.27 | andrecastelo | hehe |
| 20:49.37 | ``Erik | google won't give us 6 slots, not as a first year project |
| 20:49.39 | brlcad | that wouldn't be a good experience for the students |
| 20:49.58 | brlcad | takes time to coordinate amongst devs |
| 20:50.11 | ``Erik | doubts we'd get 4, even if we asked for that many :) |
| 20:50.44 | andrecastelo | well, i hope that i'm selected.. |
| 20:51.27 | *** join/#brlcad prasad_ (n=psilva@70.108.244.218) |
| 20:51.28 | andrecastelo | i'm impressed at how serious BRL-CAD and BZFLAG treats GSoC |
| 20:51.42 | andrecastelo | definetely a differential |
| 20:51.56 | spike1234124214 | well, would you want to apply to one that was less serious? |
| 20:52.35 | spike1234124214 | i wouldnt...better to be prepared than not |
| 20:53.39 | PrezKennedy | yukonbob, because the web is where i have the most experience and most interest... however if i did a crappy accounting program for construction companies... i could make big $$$ |
| 20:53.46 | brlcad | maybe we could just make the deciding factor some mged modeling task (muahahaha) .. see who survives |
| 20:54.04 | PrezKennedy | brlcad, did my brother get ahold of you finally? |
| 20:54.06 | andrecastelo | mged doesn't like me |
| 20:54.22 | brlcad | PrezKennedy: he got ahold of the right people eventually |
| 20:54.30 | brlcad | andrecastelo: it doesn't like anyone |
| 20:54.40 | ``Erik | mged doesn't particu... brlcad beat me to it |
| 20:54.56 | andrecastelo | lol |
| 20:55.02 | PrezKennedy | thats good... he hasnt quite learned yet that it takes some initiative to go somewhere... |
| 20:55.08 | brlcad | powerful but very unforgiving .. and it's not going to help you |
| 20:55.29 | ``Erik | do we have a write-up of the history of mged? mebbe that'd help people understand why it is like it is? |
| 20:58.27 | PrezKennedy | and andrecastelo, im a system administrator and IT support |
| 20:58.32 | ``Erik | *stretch* *yawn* that nap is done, time to go home :D later, kids |
| 20:58.52 | andrecastelo | later ``Erik |
| 20:59.00 | PrezKennedy | darn government workers! |
| 20:59.35 | brlcad | volume 1 covers the history/philosophy a bit |
| 21:08.49 | yukonbob | mged is user friendly; it's just particular about who it's friends are... |
| 21:11.21 | brlcad | :) |
| 21:11.46 | brlcad | nice characterization :) pretty true |
| 21:11.47 | prasad_ | was never a friend :( |
| 21:13.09 | brlcad | wishes there were a decent resolution independent opengl gui library |
| 21:13.38 | prasad_ | hmm no idea :o |
| 21:14.16 | prasad_ | heh u know we 'phased' out gfc |
| 21:14.26 | prasad_ | we only deal with rendering flash now |
| 21:14.40 | brlcad | that's sad |
| 21:14.46 | prasad_ | i dunno if they're open to releasing that codebase |
| 21:14.56 | brlcad | liked the georgia forestry commission |
| 21:15.23 | prasad_ | slash and burn cultivation |
| 21:15.24 | prasad_ | what can u do |
| 21:15.26 | prasad_ | :( |
| 21:15.35 | brlcad | you should press for it, open source it for brl-cad ftw! |
| 21:15.46 | brlcad | lgpl |
| 21:15.57 | prasad_ | codebase is pretty huge |
| 21:16.14 | prasad_ | maybe in 1-2 yrs |
| 21:16.18 | prasad_ | heh |
| 21:16.18 | brlcad | bah |
| 21:18.57 | andrecastelo | brlcad: hey isn't there a proposal to an Open GL Gui Lib? |
| 21:22.00 | brlcad | working on the GUI front-end, eys |
| 21:22.20 | brlcad | that still doesn't resolve the fact that there's not a good toolkit available :) |
| 21:22.52 | prasad_ | quite a pain to make one too |
| 21:23.03 | prasad_ | not being sarcastic |
| 21:23.06 | prasad_ | just takes a lot of man hours |
| 21:23.26 | prasad_ | at least one that can be classes as a toolkit |
| 21:23.29 | prasad_ | classed* |
| 21:25.36 | brlcad | yep |
| 21:25.45 | brlcad | that's why I want to use one, not write one ;) |
| 21:27.03 | andrecastelo | hehehe i thought the other way hehehe |
| 21:30.10 | brlcad | they could work on a toolkit all summer -- they might get a couple percent done |
| 21:30.25 | brlcad | probably better to invest effort in making something like cegui resolution independent |
| 21:38.20 | *** join/#brlcad MTee (n=MT@41.233.147.212) |
| 21:38.50 | MTee | brlcad |
| 21:39.27 | MTee | brlcad : should I run BRL-CAD under linux .. or can i do it under windows ? |
| 21:39.39 | brlcad | you can do whatever you like :) |
| 21:40.13 | MTee | thanks :) |
| 21:42.29 | prasad_ | is diva active? |
| 21:42.35 | prasad_ | or has it been replaced |
| 21:44.07 | MTee | brlcad : should I work on a specific version ? |
| 21:45.15 | CIA-20 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30641 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/mged.bat: For the moment, put back the old START command. Without the "2>&1 nul" we lose the output from forked apps like rt. |
| 21:49.21 | ``Erik | um, diva/adrt/isst/rise/etc is all being reworked |
| 21:49.42 | ``Erik | needs to buy new tires |
| 21:50.17 | brlcad | MTee: depends what you're trying to do |
| 21:50.49 | brlcad | devs are expected to use latest svn and be competent at building for their platform |
| 21:51.23 | MTee | i see |
| 21:51.54 | ``Erik | and those who decide to use debian/ubuntu should understand how to work around their broken libtool |
| 21:51.55 | ``Erik | :D |
| 21:52.47 | prasad_ | reworked? |
| 21:52.53 | prasad_ | by mal? |
| 21:53.00 | ``Erik | no |
| 21:53.25 | ``Erik | I'm on the "isst" task, which involves folding the various forks back together and making it more robust/unified/easy |
| 21:54.21 | prasad_ | ah |
| 21:55.22 | brlcad | MTee: new devs can always get up to speed -- really depends what you're trying to do for the next couple weeks |
| 22:05.09 | MTee | brlcad : I know this sounds crazy .. but I'm really having troubles .. I'm trying but I don't know if i'll be able to patch the program and eventually send the app !!! |
| 22:05.53 | brlcad | MTee: send the app in first |
| 22:05.59 | brlcad | the patch can happen later |
| 22:06.24 | CIA-20 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30642 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/nsis/brlcad.nsi: Add shortcuts for RtWizard. |
| 22:06.25 | brlcad | better to have detail and effort in the app itself |
| 22:06.40 | brlcad | especially since the submission deadline is pretty firm for the initial revision |
| 22:07.20 | MTee | ok so I'll work on the application now and send it within an hour .. good ? |
| 22:08.36 | andrecastelo | hurry :b |
| 22:08.52 | andrecastelo | brlcad: about the app, did you have the time to take another look at it ? |
| 22:09.08 | brlcad | andrecastelo: hah |
| 22:09.12 | brlcad | no, not really :) |
| 22:09.28 | brlcad | is in like 10 discussions at the moment with the deadline approaching |
| 22:10.10 | andrecastelo | hehehe |
| 22:10.37 | andrecastelo | do you think you'll be able to take a look before the deadline ?? :B |
| 22:11.14 | brlcad | probably not, why? |
| 22:11.28 | andrecastelo | nah, i just wanted to refine it a bit more |
| 22:11.33 | brlcad | feel free to |
| 22:11.34 | andrecastelo | but no problem |
| 22:11.38 | brlcad | please do refine |
| 22:11.47 | brlcad | refine, detail, etc |
| 22:11.56 | brlcad | that doesn't stop with the deadline |
| 22:12.06 | brlcad | the deadline is for the initial submission |
| 22:12.11 | andrecastelo | really ? |
| 22:12.26 | *** join/#brlcad cad07 (n=94e99f3a@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 22:12.32 | brlcad | we have another week to poke and prod for additional information if needed, to clean up the submissions, agree on the scope/focus/plan/etc |
| 22:12.58 | brlcad | we'll likely have our finalist by the end of this week |
| 22:13.07 | brlcad | but technically we have a week and a half |
| 22:14.05 | andrecastelo | hmm ok.. |
| 22:14.53 | andrecastelo | brlcad: one thing - in the feedback you said the first step of the timeline was a little doosie.. i've added some detail but what exactly is doosie ?? :) |
| 22:16.02 | brlcad | the scope of that effort, amount of work involved |
| 22:16.07 | brlcad | compared to the other steps |
| 22:17.11 | brlcad | sort of like "step 1: make it work .. step 2: chill with a beer" :-) big difference in what is involved for each step :) |
| 22:17.25 | andrecastelo | ah ok, i understand :b |
| 22:17.46 | andrecastelo | well, i've added some "sub" milestones and more detail, i hope it is better now |
| 22:18.40 | brlcad | okay |
| 22:19.26 | MTee | brlcad : what's the most important points to be included in the app ? |
| 22:23.59 | brlcad | anything and everything that you think the mentors should know |
| 22:24.05 | brlcad | detail |
| 22:24.33 | brlcad | especially about your proposal idea -- not just what was mentioned on the ideas page, it needs to go into detail on the idea |
| 22:25.08 | brlcad | details about yourself, execution timeline, how it relates to brl-cad features and code, etc |
| 22:25.44 | brlcad | notes this is all on the wiki, http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Application_Guidelines |
| 22:45.39 | PrezKennedy | ok this typo is ironic :P |
| 22:45.50 | PrezKennedy | "Bugs, typos, and compilation errors are to be expected as part of |
| 22:45.50 | PrezKennedy | the process of active software development and documentation, but it |
| 22:45.50 | PrezKennedy | is ultimately unacceptible to allow them to persist.." |
| 22:46.07 | PrezKennedy | unacceptable is spelled incorrectly |
| 22:46.19 | brlcad | tick tock, 75 minutes till deadline |
| 22:46.43 | brlcad | PrezKennedy: hehe ;) |
| 22:47.06 | brlcad | so now that it's been pointed out, someone (tm) should fix it |
| 22:50.35 | PrezKennedy | indeed! |
| 23:16.22 | CIA-20 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30643 10/brlcad/trunk/HACKING: not acceptable! |
| 23:39.51 | poolio | hacking is not acceptable? |
| 23:43.29 | brlcad | twas quite acceptible :) |
| 23:48.20 | poolio | ah |
