| 01:08.47 | punkrockgirl | hi |
| 01:23.50 | pacman87 | punkrockgirl: hi |
| 01:25.20 | punkrockgirl | :) |
| 01:25.28 | punkrockgirl | i'm dj'ing if you guys wanna hear |
| 01:25.42 | punkrockgirl | www.troubleradio.net |
| 01:28.49 | pacman87 | your 'listener forums' link is broken |
| 01:30.20 | punkrockgirl | yeah, its not mine ;) |
| 01:30.30 | punkrockgirl | i just dj, this other dude runs it |
| 01:30.44 | punkrockgirl | but i'll tell him :) |
| 01:31.00 | punkrockgirl | are you listening? :) |
| 01:31.27 | pacman87 | yeah |
| 01:31.52 | punkrockgirl | cool |
| 01:32.10 | punkrockgirl | if you wanna hear something let me know, most my music is on my playlist thing on there |
| 01:32.20 | punkrockgirl | i need to update though |
| 01:37.53 | punkrockgirl | ok i asked him he said that he is working on the forums |
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| 05:38.11 | brlcad | tunes in |
| 05:43.10 | brlcad | could go for some Gravity Kills |
| 05:43.32 | brlcad | ( punkrockgirl ) |
| 07:24.05 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31402 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/: ignore generated goo |
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| 12:00.35 | tjyang | anyone online ? |
| 12:26.26 | clock_ | is online |
| 12:36.31 | tjyang | Thanks, for the response. I fount the answer of my own (brlcad beginner) question. |
| 12:37.38 | tjyang | just a comment. why not make a "demo" button, in either mged or archer to show off what brlcad can do. |
| 12:38.00 | tjyang | it took me a while by RTFM ;-< |
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| 13:35.47 | brlcad | tjyang: that's a good suggestion, you're quite welcome to work on that if you're a developer :) |
| 13:36.03 | brlcad | i'd be glad to point you in the right directions and help out |
| 13:37.20 | tjyang | how will started with baby step by putting a simple procedure on brlcad wiki site. |
| 13:37.49 | tjyang | who will -> I will |
| 13:38.07 | brlcad | great! |
| 13:43.59 | tjyang | http://brlcad.org/wiki/FAQ#How_do_I_getting_started_with_Windows_version_of_BRL-CAD |
| 13:44.59 | brlcad | Hm, that'll only get you so far -- Archer is a nice interface, but only a prototype |
| 13:45.09 | brlcad | the real functionality is in MGED |
| 13:45.30 | tjyang | understood, "Getting started" is the keyword ;) |
| 13:45.31 | brlcad | Archer only does about 25% of what MGED can do |
| 13:45.50 | tjyang | that is enough for beginner like me ;) |
| 13:46.12 | ``Erik | hehehe |
| 13:46.46 | brlcad | then you should maybe make a page dedicated with screenshots and a walkthrough (e.g. where are the example files) |
| 13:46.48 | tjyang | BTW, who decide the direction of using docbook for future brl-cad |
| 13:46.54 | ``Erik | isn't sure how much of what you learn in archer will actually transfer to mged |
| 13:47.03 | tjyang | brl-cad doc format. |
| 13:47.15 | brlcad | tjyang: in what regard? |
| 13:47.43 | ``Erik | throws monty python on the tv and looks at some code |
| 13:47.45 | tjyang | I used framemaker,msword,docbook and latex before |
| 13:47.55 | tjyang | I think docbook is not as good as latex. |
| 13:48.05 | brlcad | same as most project decisions, the folks doing the work (i.e. usually the devs) decide |
| 13:48.09 | tjyang | I switch from docbook to latex. |
| 13:48.13 | ``Erik | docbook has slightly different goals (and can generate TeX) |
| 13:48.32 | ``Erik | you're not gonna touch latex for printed materials, but the web materials come out... rough |
| 13:49.14 | brlcad | and can't even really *think* about integrating latex into applications, whereas with docbook it's pretty straightforward |
| 13:49.18 | tjyang | not really , I will provide an example later, multitasking right now. |
| 13:49.39 | ``Erik | <-- big LaTeX fan, but has seen 'nuff from the FreeBSD docbook/jade to accept it :) |
| 13:51.40 | brlcad | tjyang: just about every major documentation project has moved to docbook and with good reason, it's simply easier to work with as a hub format |
| 13:52.08 | brlcad | not as ideal as some of the formats that are specifically suited to certain tasks (e.g. latex->print) but overall it's a win |
| 13:52.44 | ``Erik | heh, 488 record hits, 153 url hits, 2 subscribers... not too terrible for what it is I suppose |
| 13:53.34 | ``Erik | ponders coding something useful |
| 13:53.38 | tjyang | brlcad: I switched for the reason you mentioned and in the end I decided to switch to latex. |
| 13:54.40 | brlcad | tjyang: understood, but that doesn't really say much about whether that was a good decision or not :) |
| 13:54.54 | brlcad | and what your considerations/needs were |
| 13:55.20 | brlcad | and what problems you actually ran into |
| 13:55.31 | ``Erik | *shrug* both are simple text formats that can be trivially parsed, so it doesn't look like there's a "problem" here... it's not like the docs are in ms word or quark format |
| 13:55.41 | ``Erik | codes O.o |
| 13:55.52 | brlcad | woot, code ftw |
| 13:56.10 | ``Erik | yes, the world needs better faster stronger brainfuck compilers. |
| 13:56.52 | brlcad | heh |
| 13:59.19 | tjyang | sorry, I am still on the phone with my mom. |
| 13:59.22 | tjyang | later |
| 14:05.46 | ``Erik | 10:05AM up 178 days, 22 mins, 5 users, load averages: 0.72, 0.18, 0.07 |
| 14:06.10 | ``Erik | it may be telling that I'm accepting "bad syscall" errors from a 'hot' upgrade to keep service up |
| 14:06.12 | ``Erik | :/ |
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| 14:15.43 | ``Bman | 10:15AM up 154 days, 15 mins, 11 users, load averages: 2.22, 2.18, 2.19 |
| 14:16.14 | ``Erik | oh yeah, pheer my den p2's uptime, stomps the almighty bz uptime :D *duck* |
| 14:18.20 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31403 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/draw.c: make function declarations match definition wrt being static and constness. fixes build failure reported by tjyang (thanks). |
| 14:19.10 | ``Erik | maybe I need to update more often. Every time I update, there is a commit during my compile. If it update more often, does that mean we'll get commits more often? |
| 14:19.58 | ``Erik | my compile made it to libbu when that message came out, at least |
| 14:20.39 | tjyang | http://brlcad.org/wiki/FAQ#How_do_I_getting_started_with_Windows_version_of_BRL-CAD_.3F |
| 14:20.52 | brlcad | mebbie |
| 14:20.54 | tjyang | this was the FAQ, I was hoping to see. |
| 14:22.05 | ``Erik | if you don't like the existing tutorial pdf's, feel free to start a tutorial wiki chain |
| 14:23.15 | ``Erik | would call archer an experimental avenue, would NOT point new users there yet... *shrug* personal opinion |
| 14:23.25 | tjyang | no, I do like it. I think there should be some material for total beginner like me. |
| 14:24.06 | ``Erik | feel free to create new wiki pages *shrug* |
| 14:24.07 | brlcad | tjyang: that's the point -- you're a total beginner even with regards to what you like about it |
| 14:24.11 | brlcad | you can't actually do much with it |
| 14:24.21 | brlcad | which you'll quickly find out |
| 14:24.29 | brlcad | there's a reason we don't point anyone to it just yet |
| 14:24.38 | brlcad | it's there to encourage developer interest |
| 14:24.39 | tjyang | I do have a plan to use it. |
| 14:24.54 | brlcad | and you'll find that you can't actually "do" much with it regardless of your plans :) |
| 14:25.05 | ``Erik | if you look at the recent commit history, the entire libged effort has been kinda part of bobs plan to turn archer from being a useless but pretty toy into something useful |
| 14:25.05 | brlcad | unless that doing involves coding |
| 14:25.41 | tjyang | I need a opensource 3D modeling software for my opensource scooter project ;) |
| 14:25.48 | brlcad | tjyang: the other faq item you mentioned is being worked on, maybe this helps answer your question: http://brlcad.org/~sean/BRL-CAD_Priorities.png |
| 14:26.36 | brlcad | still under development is why that's not on the wiki too |
| 14:27.03 | ``Erik | hey, burley, check me; we completely lack anything of the notion of, say, lightwaves scener? static models being moved along bezier splines for animation? |
| 14:27.39 | brlcad | notes that havoc or m35 would be a much more interesting intro than "axis" |
| 14:28.06 | tjyang | saw the png file, thanks brlcad. |
| 14:28.06 | brlcad | ``Erik: no, we actually have that |
| 14:28.18 | ``Erik | and I imagine if I were to do a 'pulling the points apart' metaball animation, I'd probably be best generating the 120 or so seperate primitives to play in succession? |
| 14:28.21 | brlcad | it's crusty as all hell.. stuff chris johnson worked on way back when |
| 14:28.23 | ``Erik | uhm, the track thing? |
| 14:28.26 | brlcad | the anim_* tools |
| 14:28.40 | brlcad | and some of the joint tools |
| 14:29.05 | ``Erik | hum, back in, uhm, '96 or '97(?) that was one of the few things I felt good with in lightwave |
| 14:29.29 | tjyang | how far is brlcad converted to docbook already ? |
| 14:29.29 | ``Erik | lightwave 4? I took other peoples models, gave 'em paths, and pushed the button to render :D made me feel good |
| 14:29.55 | brlcad | what we have works but is a total hack, not at all robust .. but a slew of movies were made with the tools that way (what rain and others are working on converting) |
| 14:30.35 | brlcad | ours involves a lot of tables a few anim commands and even a bit of sed/awk scripting :) |
| 14:30.57 | ``Erik | ohyeah, that reminds me |
| 14:31.05 | ``Erik | dude, wtf, the knights and shit? wtf? hahahaha |
| 14:31.30 | ``Erik | and the koosh ball with the eyeball, we TOTALLY need that koosh in our distro :D |
| 14:31.46 | ``Erik | it was freaking rain out :D |
| 14:32.10 | tjyang | brlcad = sean ? |
| 14:32.23 | brlcad | tjyang: depends what you count .. we have a hell of a lot of docs in various formats, but the bulk of what we're counting is probably halfway there |
| 14:32.32 | brlcad | tjyang: yeah |
| 14:32.41 | brlcad | a get assigned that value sometimes |
| 14:32.50 | tjyang | http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?thread_id=2082285&forum_id=362511, thank you for this answer. |
| 14:33.18 | brlcad | ``Erik: yeah, I haven't seen the nights bit in like 10 years, don't really remember it |
| 14:33.29 | brlcad | and totally don't remember seeing a koosh ball |
| 14:33.47 | brlcad | i've not seen all the videos myself, just a handful |
| 14:33.53 | ``Erik | starseeker and rain pulled me across the hall to see it |
| 14:33.57 | brlcad | i'm looking forward to seeing what's in all of them |
| 14:34.08 | ``Erik | rain was REALLY freaking out on the koosh ball... |
| 14:34.18 | brlcad | she freaks out easily |
| 14:34.23 | brlcad | noob |
| 14:34.26 | ``Erik | "what is that thing??? it keeps showing up!" |
| 14:34.58 | tjyang | brlcad: if doc->docbook is 50% done then I rest my case of doc->latex. |
| 14:35.14 | brlcad | tjyang: eh how so? |
| 14:35.41 | brlcad | that's after just a couple days of actual effort, and we're talking about *hundreds* of pages of existing documentation |
| 14:35.52 | tjyang | brlcad: looks like decision has been to adopt docbook which is my 2nd perference. |
| 14:35.53 | ``Erik | tjyang: LaTeX has been in the discussion all along... many of us STILL insist on sending our pubs down the pipe as LaTeX and fighting the "it's not word" back-push |
| 14:36.01 | brlcad | it would take just as long to convert these docs to latex |
| 14:36.10 | ``Erik | trust me, it's not like we just don't know about LaTeX |
| 14:36.42 | brlcad | yeah, some of our docs are (still) in latex |
| 14:36.43 | tjyang | great to know. |
| 14:37.16 | brlcad | we probably have well over a thousand pages of actual/useful documentation material |
| 14:37.34 | ``Erik | heh, and millions of useless ones? ;D |
| 14:38.12 | brlcad | in various formats from word to latex to docbook to only-available-in-printed-form-now that have accumulated over the years |
| 14:38.18 | tjyang | mercurial book is a good example of using latex. |
| 14:38.24 | brlcad | ah, and good ol troff |
| 14:38.43 | ``Erik | yes, I've been tossed some very classic roff files for review :/ |
| 14:39.06 | ``Erik | rich s is good at what he does, but he is sure stuck in his own time O.o |
| 14:39.38 | tjyang | I like to join brl-cad latex doc group, if there is a such group. |
| 14:40.25 | tjyang | docbook is unecessary diversion effort of tex/latex. |
| 14:41.19 | ``Erik | the color, serifs, images and layout of the priorities image make it feel very archaic, like, 1900's era stuff |
| 14:41.52 | tjyang | google.com is down ? |
| 14:42.09 | ``Erik | and it took a while for me to realize that the summary was in the middle and channeled to the details, mebbe I'm just special |
| 14:42.29 | brlcad | tjyang: you still haven't quantified what's actually technically "wrong" about docbook other than you don't like it and/or find it unnecessary |
| 14:43.03 | brlcad | you're welcome to work on latex docs, maybe through sheer volume of contributions you can make something happen there |
| 14:43.25 | brlcad | but as for a project direction on the docs, I'm still going to keep going down the docbook path for many reasons |
| 14:43.44 | tjyang | ok, what is your pro reason for docbook ? |
| 14:43.45 | brlcad | you'd have to do some serious convincing and contributing to derail that |
| 14:44.15 | brlcad | no no, you're not going to bait on points you can nit pick when you still haven't pointed out what you find negative about it |
| 14:44.42 | ``Erik | notes that docbook and latex are awefully close to eachother than the progress right now towards docbook is 98% towards latex... |
| 14:44.52 | brlcad | or even more, what makes latex better for *all* of the necessary requirements |
| 14:45.12 | brlcad | yeah, it's not like we're moving away from docbook |
| 14:45.17 | brlcad | s/docbook/latex/ |
| 14:45.18 | brlcad | heh |
| 14:45.32 | ``Erik | we're off in middle of the ocean and we have two lighthouses close to each other... we on the docbook one right now *shrug* :) |
| 14:46.01 | ``Erik | knowwhatImean,verne? |
| 14:46.14 | brlcad | yeah, you mean we're aimed at the docbook one, but they're right next door to each other |
| 14:46.25 | brlcad | we just happen to be in the middle of the ocean a couple miles away at this point :) |
| 14:46.26 | tjyang | http://brlcad.org/wiki/FAQ#Why_BRL-CAD_chose_docbook_over_latex_.3F |
| 14:46.44 | tjyang | lets put down some pros/cons of each solutions. |
| 14:47.02 | ``Erik | *sigh* |
| 14:47.08 | brlcad | tjyang: that's not the appropriate place ot have a pro/con debate/discussion |
| 14:47.21 | brlcad | and it'd seriously be a waste of time frankly |
| 14:48.21 | ``Erik | if docbook has failings that LaTeX addresses, why not put your effort into improving the docbook->LaTeX converter? |
| 14:49.46 | brlcad | if you want to work on latex docs, go for it, not going to stop you -- just not going to stop other efforts happening for docbook |
| 14:49.56 | tjyang | I think the bottom line is the doers go to pick the tool. |
| 14:50.50 | ``Erik | yes |
| 14:50.53 | ``Erik | that is the bottom line |
| 14:50.57 | ``Erik | the doers picked docbook |
| 14:50.57 | ``Erik | sorry |
| 14:50.58 | ``Erik | :) |
| 14:51.01 | tjyang | agree ;) |
| 14:51.36 | tjyang | np, remember docobok is 2nd perference. if you pick msword then I will scream ;) |
| 14:52.20 | brlcad | tjyang: what (if anything) are you actually asking? :) |
| 14:52.33 | ``Erik | oh, you're talking to a fistful of unix geeks here, I mean, we buy macs cuz it's unix that "can do" office, but we still use keynote instead of powerpoint for slides, ... |
| 14:53.20 | brlcad | why do you think it took nearly 5 years to get the second release of brl-cad for windows out ... |
| 14:53.35 | brlcad | hm, three years I suppose |
| 14:53.39 | tjyang | keynote is not a common tool. |
| 14:54.27 | brlcad | you're missing the point |
| 14:54.28 | brlcad | twas an example dude |
| 14:54.28 | tjyang | use beam in latex ;) |
| 14:54.28 | tjyang | beams |
| 14:54.28 | ``Erik | hopes that with a couple open source windows developers, windows releases will happen more often |
| 14:54.28 | ``Erik | I think I've used beams before |
| 14:54.32 | tjyang | commens about beams ? |
| 14:54.34 | tjyang | comments |
| 14:54.47 | ``Erik | I've also written a portable javascript thingymajigger so I could use html for my display info and push the space bar for 'next slide', with the right and left arrow doing what's right |
| 14:55.10 | ``Erik | anyways, we avoid microsoftian proprietary lockin like the plague. |
| 14:55.51 | tjyang | ok, I am going to stop time wasting chat(wasting your time). |
| 14:56.02 | louipc | haha I did html slides too |
| 14:56.14 | tjyang | osx 10.5.3 is building ;) |
| 14:56.25 | tjyang | thanks for the quick fix, sean. |
| 14:56.28 | ``Erik | discussion is good, submitting patches is better :) |
| 14:56.50 | brlcad | please, if beam is what I remember, it totally sucked on many levels :) |
| 14:57.12 | tjyang | stand correct, I sould be more serious about brl-cad. |
| 14:57.20 | tjyang | stand corrected. |
| 14:58.10 | brlcad | code > doc > chat ;) |
| 14:58.22 | ``Erik | nods solemnly |
| 14:58.43 | ``Erik | unless it's my code, I produce some... special... code... :D |
| 15:02.28 | tjyang | imac:brlcad tj_yang$ find . -type f -name *.tex |
| 15:02.28 | tjyang | ./doc/html/manuals/mged/ged.tex |
| 15:02.28 | tjyang | imac:brlcad tj_yang$ |
| 15:02.41 | tjyang | only one tex file found in source tree. |
| 15:03.05 | ``Erik | very little documentation is in the tree |
| 15:03.15 | ``Erik | that's part of the docbook effort, to move more into it |
| 15:03.23 | tjyang | what are docbook extension used in source tree. |
| 15:03.39 | tjyang | docbook extension file name. docbook ? |
| 15:03.59 | ``Erik | I'd assume something like xml? starseeker would be the big doer on that, I think |
| 15:04.17 | tjyang | yeap, thanks, it is .xml |
| 15:04.20 | ``Erik | writes .c, not .xml |
| 15:05.00 | tjyang | BRL-CAD Release 7.12.5, Build 20080615 |
| 15:05.00 | tjyang | Elapsed compilation time: |
| 15:05.00 | tjyang | 20 minutes, 57 seconds |
| 15:05.00 | tjyang | Elapsed time since configuration: |
| 15:05.00 | tjyang | 22 minutes, 20 seconds |
| 15:05.21 | tjyang | thanks for the fix. |
| 15:06.11 | ``Erik | no need to paste, brlcad wants to have BRL-CAD's babies, he'll do what's necessary when necessary :) |
| 15:06.58 | ``Erik | I think it's a good thing to have, so I push portability and internal correctness, and I don't mind the paycheck :D |
| 15:07.11 | ``Erik | I'm ALMOST good enough to model a box :D |
| 15:07.48 | tjyang | how do I find out if my grapich card is used by win32 brl-cad ? |
| 15:08.16 | ``Erik | thinks it would be awesome to model his house and be able to place furniture and render, or model his truck and see where the big drag points are |
| 15:08.17 | tjyang | my son upgrade the card to play game. |
| 15:08.44 | ``Erik | uhm, do you mean the 3d components of your graphics card? cuz, uh, if it comes up on the screen, your graphics card was involved in some way or another |
| 15:09.18 | ``Erik | we have an opengl mode, but it's all GL_LINE stuff, so using opengl will actually slow you down vs X or win32 |
| 15:09.43 | ``Erik | it's in the big todo list to get 'shaded displays' up, that'd be where a 3d card becomes useful |
| 15:10.29 | tjyang | I don't feel the rendering is fast in brl-cad vs my Son's game. |
| 15:10.58 | ``Erik | no, the purpose is very different. BRL-CAD is looking to be accurate and deep. The game is looking to be fast and pretty. |
| 15:11.50 | tjyang | (Erik) speaking of paycheck, how is brl-cad.com doing ? is everybody there got fed properly ? |
| 15:11.53 | ``Erik | in BRL-CAD, we care about sub-millimeter accuracy and deep ray penetration at several KM out... it's scientific software, not "pretty" :) |
| 15:12.12 | tjyang | ok, no problem. |
| 15:12.24 | tjyang | this is what I am looking for. |
| 15:12.47 | ``Erik | uhm, I get my paycheck from http://www.arl.army.mil/slad, brlcad gets his (indirectly) from the same place, dunno what a brl-cad.com is O.o |
| 15:13.02 | tjyang | I did have educations both C.S. and building ship. |
| 15:13.03 | ``Erik | ohhhh, a cname for survice |
| 15:13.38 | louipc | opengl is faster than X for me |
| 15:13.48 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p5B14DF4C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:14.26 | ``Erik | ok, BRL-CAD was designed and implemented more for physics simulation and multispectral analysis than fast pretty pictures |
| 15:14.28 | tjyang | I am thinking of using using brl-cad as the modeling tool a opensource scooter project. |
| 15:14.56 | ``Erik | that'd be awesome, clock used BRL-CAD quite a bit in his 'ronja' project, which is effin' awesome |
| 15:14.59 | tjyang | physics simulation ? that sounds cool. |
| 15:15.06 | ``Erik | http://ronja.twibright.com/ |
| 15:15.33 | ``Erik | well, it seems that we have big metal boxes, and some people want to make holes in them... and other folk have big metal boxes that WE want to mkae holes in... |
| 15:16.24 | ``Erik | I get paid because some people want to use BRL-CAD to figure out what happens when people try to make holes in metal boxes *shrug* |
| 15:17.06 | ``Erik | ronja is definitely a project that'll let a feller sleep better at night |
| 15:17.07 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 15:18.00 | ``Erik | (we're more CAE than CAD) |
| 15:18.10 | tjyang | I want to use brlcad to build a three wheel scooter like BugE. http://www.bugev.net/ |
| 15:18.47 | tjyang | am I picking the right tool ? |
| 15:18.47 | brlcad | cocks his head at the image of having BRL-CAD's babies |
| 15:18.55 | brlcad | ow |
| 15:18.57 | ``Erik | that'd be neat, how exactly will BRL-CAD aid you in that? |
| 15:19.08 | louipc | tjyang: that's sweet |
| 15:19.13 | tjyang | like m35 |
| 15:19.32 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslb-088-071-037-042.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 15:19.34 | ``Erik | the current NURBS work would really benefit that kinda project, I think |
| 15:19.47 | tjyang | it brlcad can model m35 truck then it can model a bugE alike |
| 15:19.50 | ``Erik | but, um, we don't do blueprints |
| 15:19.58 | ``Erik | yt |
| 15:19.59 | ``Erik | yet |
| 15:20.08 | tjyang | I can wait |
| 15:20.27 | tjyang | it is hobby project . |
| 15:20.32 | ``Erik | it may take more than waiting, you might have to do :) |
| 15:21.00 | brlcad | brlcad.com (i.e. SURVICE's support service) does their own thing, gets some attention |
| 15:21.05 | ``Erik | the people paying for BRL-CAD development are analysis, not design... blueprints are irrelevant to them, so *shrug* |
| 15:21.06 | brlcad | i'm sure not as much as they'd like |
| 15:22.30 | tjyang | Erik, so I am picking the wrong tool ? |
| 15:22.39 | brlcad | tjyang: I'd really suggest going through the Vol II tutorials in order to get a feel for how you model |
| 15:22.40 | ``Erik | now if you lay down code to do blueprints, you'd be a hero to many... most of the developers have someone saying to pay attention to other stuff and holding the paycheck |
| 15:22.48 | ``Erik | it depends on what exactly you want out of it |
| 15:23.39 | ``Erik | if you want to verify assembly, visualize subassemblies, computer actual weights and stuff... BRL-CAD is great... if you want to hit a button and get a blueprint to take to the machine shop? no. :( |
| 15:24.11 | tjyang | I see, that whaty pro/E is doing, correct ? |
| 15:24.18 | brlcad | as far as open source CAD goes, we're (imho) as good as it gets but still with a long ways to go |
| 15:24.40 | ``Erik | pro/E and unigraphics are very into CAM stuff |
| 15:24.46 | ``Erik | we're more CAE |
| 15:24.50 | brlcad | pro/e, unigraphics/nx, catia, solidworks, .. |
| 15:25.08 | brlcad | autocad is king of blueprints |
| 15:25.26 | tjyang | I really don't have a big wallet to spend on those CAE/CAM commerical tool |
| 15:25.30 | ``Erik | http://brlcad.org/w/images/4/44/Industry_Diagram.pdf |
| 15:25.49 | ``Erik | that pdf has a *LOT* of information in it, brlcad spent a lot of effort getting it just right |
| 15:25.52 | tjyang | yeah, I saw that pdf file. |
| 15:26.15 | ``Erik | might take a little look at http://gcam.js.cx/index.php/Main_Page if CAM is what you're looking for |
| 15:26.16 | tjyang | very nice pdf file. |
| 15:26.21 | brlcad | tjyang: the amount of manpower effort that has to go into a functionally useful CAD system is truely massive and they know it and they charge accordingly |
| 15:26.34 | brlcad | about a 6 billion dollar commercial market last year |
| 15:27.09 | louipc | tjyang: looks like you won't be able to see anything on the road ahead if you're behind other cars :P |
| 15:27.22 | brlcad | we've got almost 25 years of non-stop development, nearly 500 man-years of effort, and we still mostly focus on CAE aspects and could easily double that and still not be at the commercial systems level in some regards |
| 15:27.59 | ``Erik | was it uni that you talked to with 100 dedicated developers? |
| 15:28.21 | tjyang | louipc: that is oppertunity that BugE 2/3 can fix ;) |
| 15:28.48 | brlcad | yeah, uni |
| 15:29.01 | brlcad | talked to catia dev at solid modeling ... |
| 15:29.10 | brlcad | they have about 1000 *devs* :) |
| 15:29.14 | louipc | ouch |
| 15:30.00 | tjyang | it is not I don't appreicate the value of commerical cad/cam tool, it is the problem I can't afford it. unless I ask my kids stop there college education. |
| 15:30.02 | brlcad | distributed all over the place, lots of competeting projects |
| 15:31.14 | ``Erik | heh, ain't nothin' worth disadvantaging your kids, dude |
| 15:31.20 | brlcad | tjyang: i'm not promoting them or saying go with them -- my answer is help make brl-cad better, help make it do what it needs to do to be the absolute best ;) |
| 15:31.44 | ``Erik | we're open source and solid, if you run into a serious stumbling block, we're here to talk to... if you can fix it, we love patches |
| 15:31.54 | brlcad | yeah, because you'd not only have to take away they're college, you'd have to start pimping them out for the annual maintenance and upgrade costs ;) |
| 15:32.32 | ``Erik | even taking away college, seems to me that once you have a kid, your focus changes from doing for yourself to making their life better *shrug* |
| 15:32.39 | ``Erik | or SHOULD |
| 15:33.28 | tjyang | I still want to allocate some resources for my personal hobbies ;) |
| 15:33.31 | brlcad | meh, they can fend for themselves, good learning experiences ;) |
| 15:33.56 | ``Erik | heh, it's a balance :D but if push comes to shove, I think the kids take precidence |
| 15:34.23 | tjyang | be back, let me test the mac version of brlcad. |
| 15:34.24 | brlcad | stopped being a negative time/money sink as soon as he could be put to work (early teens) |
| 15:34.53 | ``Erik | my parents gave up a lot for me, but I wasn't spoiled. i support 'em when they need it, ... I'm boggled at how the bitch spoils her brats at times *shrug* |
| 15:36.11 | ``Erik | (of course, I grew up in a single income family with my dad being enlisted in the navy, not exactly wealthy... buying a 'puter was a huge hobby expense that came hard to my dad, but I got my fingers on a keyboard in '83, which affected where I am now *shrug*) |
| 15:37.32 | ``Erik | pancake tends to buy her kids video games and dolls... last xmas, I bought her boy an electronic experimentor kit and her daughter a projection lamp tracing table thing O.o |
| 15:38.15 | louipc | drafting table ;) |
| 15:38.30 | ``Erik | almost, but cheap plastic and with disney images to project :D |
| 15:38.49 | ``Erik | rachel is "artsy"... I don't grok it, my arts are either aural or mathematical |
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| 15:40.08 | brlcad | I think I got joshua one of those for xmas |
| 15:40.10 | ``Erik | http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000Q947SG?smid=A1OLFXZISZ8WL8&tag=nextag-toys-20&linkCode=asn |
| 15:40.14 | brlcad | pretty nifty |
| 15:40.52 | brlcad | heh, yeah .. cept the 'boy' version of that apparently, "Cars" theme instead of princess |
| 15:40.59 | ``Erik | heh, you HAVE to buy josh cool shit, you're his godfather :D I'm just off in left field, not even invited to hang out :D |
| 15:41.20 | ``Erik | met up with jason and nettie a week or two ago for lunch, josh is getting big! |
| 15:41.54 | ``Erik | and was the first time I'd seen their daughter |
| 15:42.23 | brlcad | aspires to be that affluent godfather that joshua knows he can go to for toys whenever he wants (or whenever mom n dad are being stubborn) |
| 15:42.32 | ``Erik | hah |
| 15:42.48 | ``Erik | the faux grandfather roll? :> |
| 15:43.05 | brlcad | like when they were trying to ween him off candy |
| 15:43.13 | brlcad | I show up with chocolate bars |
| 15:43.13 | ``Erik | bwahahahaha |
| 15:43.33 | ``Erik | I have to say, josh seems awfully well behaved, it's boggling |
| 15:43.58 | ``Erik | he got fitty with the crayons, jason told him to settle downa nd be nice and ... he... did... *boggle* |
| 15:44.10 | brlcad | :) |
| 15:44.50 | ``Erik | and the girl (I forgot her name) seems to be the polar opposite |
| 15:45.08 | ``Erik | she just stays quiet and happy |
| 15:45.12 | ``Erik | no fits |
| 15:45.56 | ``Erik | makes me jealous :) they have something awesome going on |
| 15:47.06 | ``Erik | (and nettie has an awesome ability to bounce back, zomfg, jason is all sorts of lucky there *cough* *duck*) |
| 15:47.11 | ``Erik | so, code time :D |
| 15:49.51 | ``Erik | is happy that it is cool today, can actually run "make" without fear :/ |
| 16:00.58 | punkrockgirl | :/ |
| 16:05.01 | brlcad | punkrockgirl: g'morning :) |
| 16:06.24 | brlcad | ``Erik: mira, yeah.. impressively "calm" |
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| 16:23.22 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31404 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/draw.c: reorder the functions so that forward declarations are not needed for any except the (recursive) callbacks |
| 16:24.36 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31405 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (8 files): ws |
| 16:27.53 | ``Erik | yeah, that sounds right, was boggling at lunch (grumpies) |
| 16:28.42 | ``Erik | punker says good morning, she's lazy and laying back in bed |
| 16:51.40 | brlcad | mm.. food |
| 17:25.14 | andrecastelo | sorry guys for being away for so much time |
| 17:53.22 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r31406 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/viewarea.c: |
| 17:53.22 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: Regarding the center point algorithm - fixed a bug that prevented the head of a |
| 17:53.22 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: point list from receiving data and a crude hack was being used to prevent loss |
| 17:53.22 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: of precision. area_center() had a for statement that didn't start with the head, |
| 17:53.23 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: now it has been improved and now uses BU_LIST_FOR(). |
| 18:00.44 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r31407 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: Moved mafm and homovulgaris (Manuel Fernandez and Dawn Thomas, respectively) from the Special Thanks section to the Code Contribution section, as requested by Dawn Thomas. |
| 18:21.03 | brlcad | howdy andrecastelo ! |
| 18:21.09 | brlcad | happy weekend to you |
| 18:21.38 | andrecastelo | howdy brlcad |
| 18:21.51 | brlcad | andrecastelo: normally requests to get "moved up" by themselves aren't a valid reason :) |
| 18:22.07 | brlcad | though in this case all four of you should be moved up by this point |
| 18:22.55 | andrecastelo | sorry about it S: |
| 18:23.03 | andrecastelo | i thought it was ok to edit it |
| 18:23.21 | brlcad | no, it's completely fine |
| 18:23.31 | brlcad | i'm just saying the commit "reason" isn't the reason |
| 18:23.39 | brlcad | at least that shouldn't be the reason |
| 18:24.15 | brlcad | the reason is that you guys are committing code :) |
| 18:25.21 | andrecastelo | ah ok ok :) |
| 18:25.49 | andrecastelo | i've added a few files that weren't added to the msvc 9 build |
| 18:25.58 | andrecastelo | just building now to see if i didn't forget anything |
| 18:25.59 | brlcad | and by the end of summer, should be at dev status, particularly if you all keep it up |
| 18:26.21 | andrecastelo | awesome :D |
| 18:26.26 | andrecastelo | hehehe |
| 18:26.37 | brlcad | as dev status is more an indicator of "time" (though there is a magnitude of effort factor too) |
| 18:28.30 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31408 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: denote all four gsocers as such |
| 20:10.34 | starseeker | chuckles to see the docbook debate flare up again |
| 20:11.30 | starseeker | I'm using .xml for the moment, but that's not set in stone |
| 20:12.35 | starseeker | is still a LaTeX fan, but appreciates docbook more now that he can get pdf files out of it and appreciates the magnitude of LaTeX conversion for essentially nil gain |
| 20:13.20 | brlcad | he left :) |
| 20:13.27 | starseeker | bah |
| 20:13.33 | starseeker | that's no fun ;-) |
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| 23:29.16 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r31409 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc9/ (brlcad/brlcad.sln libged/libged.vcproj): Updated the MSVC 9 build configuration. Added files from libged that weren't added before. Added rtmlt back into the configuration. |
