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| 04:36.37 | yukonbob | wow -- hope everybody is having a good weekend ;) |
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| 10:23.48 | claymore | stretches. |
| 10:24.04 | claymore | Great weekend. The Amazing Race finally started. |
| 10:25.55 | louipc | Great weekend. Had a wild party with a bunch of smoking hot women. |
| 10:26.23 | claymore | Always a plus. Personally though, women who smoke turn me off majorly... ;) |
| 10:26.43 | louipc | hahah |
| 10:27.12 | claymore | hows that Forum addage go.... "Pics or it didn't happen?" yeah, thats it! |
| 10:29.10 | louipc | aw shucks I never carry a camera with me |
| 10:32.01 | claymore | Well its just a saying. As long as YOU remember what happened! Thats the problem with the really GOOD parties, not many people remember what happened.... |
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| 12:45.27 | starseeker | yawns and heads in |
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| 14:04.58 | mafm | hello |
| 14:13.15 | clock_ | claymore: they can videotape it |
| 14:32.10 | claymore | True, but those vids are a dime a dozen on youtube :/ |
| 14:43.02 | clock_ | how many $ is a dime? |
| 14:43.07 | clock_ | and a nickel? |
| 14:43.21 | claymore | Dime = $0.10 |
| 14:43.28 | claymore | Nickel = $0.05 |
| 14:46.22 | clock_ | do other coins have special names like these? |
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| 14:51.46 | claymore | Penny = $0.01, quarter = $0.25 |
| 14:54.00 | clock_ | is there a 0.02 and 0.50 coin? |
| 14:54.27 | claymore | No and yes, but the $0.50 is pretty rare and not very used. |
| 15:00.40 | clock_ | so if you want to pay 0.04, you have to use 4 0.01 coins? |
| 15:01.05 | claymore | yes. But nothing costs 4 pennies. Not even 1 peice of bubblegum. |
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| 15:05.10 | clock_ | 1.04 then? |
| 15:06.23 | claymore | sure. |
| 15:44.06 | ``Erik | heh |
| 15:46.09 | ``Erik | made his gf stop smoking, :/ |
| 15:46.56 | brlcad | so you think |
| 15:52.49 | ``Erik | no, she actually did, I don't hear the end of it. |
| 15:53.37 | ``Erik | http://librivox.org fear |
| 15:53.57 | claymore | She is probably getting the best of both worlds... still smoking AND being able to give you shit. |
| 15:54.06 | claymore | ..thinkabout it ;) |
| 15:54.19 | ``Erik | sorry, my nose works... :D |
| 15:54.38 | ``Erik | aint' exactly something that can be hidden |
| 15:54.59 | claymore | ah, I thunked you two had a few miles distance between yas. |
| 15:55.53 | ``Erik | a few, yes, but the two week visit vacations, hiding something like that would require siginificant downtime before and is just... not... doable... :D |
| 15:56.15 | claymore | thnx for the librivox link. good stuff. |
| 15:56.32 | claymore | I just started re'reading' the Dragonriders of Pern series again. |
| 15:56.37 | ``Erik | caught it off of the vlog of a webcomic artist, the chick who does 'devils panties' |
| 15:57.08 | ``Erik | jennie beeden or something |
| 15:57.23 | ``Erik | breeden |
| 15:58.03 | ``Erik | my dad was a huge dragonriders of pern fan, he even bought the board game |
| 15:58.24 | ``Erik | I never got into it |
| 15:58.35 | claymore | found a dir of comics, many of which you would probably like: http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/ |
| 15:59.03 | claymore | My favorite is the first book (chronologically) of the series: Dragons Dawn. |
| 15:59.05 | ``Erik | heh, xkcd has been on my regular read list for years |
| 15:59.20 | claymore | its about the inital colonization of the planet. |
| 15:59.36 | ``Erik | I did some php hackery many many years ago, it currently lives at http://brlcad.org/~erik/comics/comic.php |
| 15:59.58 | ``Erik | which is its third or fourth home O.o |
| 16:00.11 | claymore | I remember the name, you mentioned it one time, but this is the entire archive... (I thinks) |
| 16:00.14 | ``Erik | hosts come and go, but revision controlled code is forever |
| 16:00.45 | claymore | I swear I heard a violin leading some epic music as you said that. |
| 16:01.01 | ``Erik | yeh, usually, uh, when a comic makes it to that php script, it means I've gone back and read the ENTIRE archive |
| 16:01.20 | ``Erik | I'm anal like that |
| 16:01.44 | ``Erik | one does not just CLICK into mordor!!! |
| 16:01.54 | claymore | So does Sean always lurk or did i forget my deoderant today? |
| 16:02.14 | claymore | lol |
| 16:02.18 | ``Erik | both, I'd imagine |
| 16:02.32 | claymore | 'Ba-doom ching!' |
| 16:03.23 | ``Erik | naw, deep irc geek culture involves reading a lot of backlog, having a semi-mystical ability to skip large chunks if it doesn't seem relevant, and conversations where responses might come a week after |
| 16:03.42 | ``Erik | and a dozen simulanious conversations all being handled appropriately, if slowly |
| 16:04.11 | claymore | newbie question: Is there a way for me to filter all the 'joined room' and 'left room' screen vomit? |
| 16:04.24 | ``Erik | uhhhh, depends on the client? I d'no irssi myself |
| 16:05.02 | ``Erik | BX recently added collapsing that, so if a netsplit happens, I see "17 people have left" instead of 17 lines of people leaving, or "netjoin, 34 people back" instead of 34 join lines |
| 16:05.50 | claymore | BX = ? |
| 16:05.56 | ``Erik | BitchX |
| 16:06.06 | ``Erik | ircII descendant, like EPIC |
| 16:06.35 | claymore | kk danke |
| 16:06.51 | ``Erik | back in "the day", the two serious clients were BX or ircII/T|X |
| 16:07.02 | ``Erik | and then there were the fucktards using winirc or mirc |
| 16:07.28 | claymore | you sound bitter |
| 16:07.39 | ``Erik | tx was written by shaman, but he had a very classic ircII approach |
| 16:07.40 | claymore | were you a fucktard? |
| 16:07.49 | ``Erik | the epic/BX approach was... niftier |
| 16:08.07 | ``Erik | yes :D I used winirc first, then later moved to mirc... then bitchx, tried ircII, irssi, etc... |
| 16:08.29 | ``Erik | bx is still a solid win for me, I'm the old guy it the rocking chair shakin' my cane from the porch |
| 16:08.34 | claymore | NIFTI = Naval Infrared Firefighting Thermal Imager |
| 16:09.16 | ``Erik | I made a bad hit in ae. now I'm looking at edge targets and getting all pussified out. |
| 16:09.18 | ``Erik | :( |
| 16:09.43 | claymore | </topic> You should read some of the threads in the AE-Artwork forum.... omg. id10ts, all of em. Well except maybe one or two. |
| 16:09.52 | claymore | make more fleet. |
| 16:09.59 | claymore | thats all I had time for this weekend. |
| 16:10.12 | ``Erik | I'm building, the queues stay full, but, dude, it takes a week to ship 'em to the hot spot |
| 16:10.15 | claymore | Cooked up another 200k, fresh from the oven. |
| 16:10.33 | claymore | There will always be more targets.... |
| 16:10.47 | ``Erik | I'm tempted to just kamikaze crap to burn off my fleet in 32 so I can be excused |
| 16:11.21 | claymore | I AM pretty upset about sitting my fleet in33 for 2 weeks awaiting this EPIC mission we are going on.... only to be told its a farming run of hte 30's |
| 16:11.29 | ``Erik | I still wear the student moniker, so I imagine I'm permitted a fair bit of leeway |
| 16:11.32 | claymore | lol you too? hahaha |
| 16:12.14 | ``Erik | compared to the guys who've been dropped, I've been highly active and seem to be on the curve well enough |
| 16:12.16 | claymore | I am planning on just hitting a bunch of targets, making it as profitable as possible. But just keep going and going until I have nothing left in the lower 30s |
| 16:12.21 | ``Erik | they dont' think I need a mentor |
| 16:12.39 | claymore | Hey, that b3n_k1ng fool has ALL of his bases in 37. |
| 16:12.45 | claymore | shitty defences too. |
| 16:12.50 | ``Erik | yeah, I'm at the point where I don't even care about profit, really... it'd be nice, but *shrug* |
| 16:13.10 | ``Erik | I won't hit a former guildie. |
| 16:13.40 | claymore | Thats my normal motto... but man... this guy... logs on once every 5-6 days and only builds JGs and tech.... |
| 16:13.44 | ``Erik | it's a low blow, having someone expose their tech and locations, then booting and romping them, it just ain't cool |
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| 16:13.57 | ``Erik | I'll give him a week or two |
| 16:14.10 | claymore | Well, I knew where he was for a long time before he posted all his locs. |
| 16:14.21 | ``Erik | the savage boot&farm approach is uncool with me |
| 16:14.40 | claymore | we 'grew up' togther. *snif* now I have to destroy his ass :) |
| 16:14.46 | claymore | Agreed. |
| 16:14.57 | ``Erik | if EM comes back, I'll go there in a heartbeat, for a more civil nicer approach |
| 16:14.57 | claymore | Yoda seems to be quite eager to do it though. |
| 16:15.22 | ``Erik | yeah, fates culture is one of bullying and smashing everything around |
| 16:15.26 | claymore | Oh yeah, forgot about the EM Redeux idea. Hear anythign form hellbent on that? |
| 16:15.31 | ``Erik | nope |
| 16:15.34 | claymore | bah. |
| 16:15.55 | claymore | Whats worse is that the game mechanics lend itself to Fate's play style. |
| 16:16.11 | claymore | Something to keep in mind as I build my own game....;) |
| 16:16.26 | claymore | Anyone play 'Sins of a Solar Empire' ? |
| 16:16.30 | ``Erik | yeah... I still hold myself to classic EM rules... if I romp a base, once I get the derbz, I leave a single fighter and don't mind them freeing themselves |
| 16:16.51 | ``Erik | and I'm slow to hit tr's (though I've been ruthless on night) |
| 16:17.44 | claymore | whats up with the TR pillage rampage? I lost 7 over the weekend. |
| 16:17.52 | ``Erik | from who? |
| 16:18.36 | ``Erik | I've been moving a single recycler to a base and doing the tr's with that for these night targets... they hold no fleet over their bases, so *shrug* why not? |
| 16:18.54 | ``Erik | seriously, dude, I am plundering rt's with single recyclers. :D how awesome is that? |
| 16:18.59 | ``Erik | tr's |
| 16:21.19 | claymore | lol Garbage Men Strike Back. |
| 16:21.20 | claymore | Nice. |
| 16:21.37 | claymore | This down in 33/32? |
| 16:21.54 | ``Erik | I've been engaging in 32 |
| 16:22.57 | claymore | kewl. I moved my fleet in 32 once, then logged right off. Had a hutch to build. |
| 16:23.15 | claymore | I'll admit, the playability of AE is begining to wear thin. |
| 16:23.34 | claymore | I am only lvl 35 and I am close enough to Endgame that its borderline boring. |
| 16:24.08 | ``Erik | yeah, see, here I've found 5 more of this madhatter dudes astros |
| 16:24.15 | ``Erik | no fleet. |
| 16:24.27 | ``Erik | I'm gonna go scout tap piracy on his ass |
| 16:25.48 | claymore | are there level restrictions on TR piracy? |
| 16:26.54 | ``Erik | I'm sure |
| 16:27.36 | ``Erik | at this point, I'm just looking to insult, though :D |
| 16:27.58 | claymore | what reg are you in? |
| 16:28.14 | ``Erik | mostly 32:4 |
| 16:28.16 | ``Erik | 46 |
| 16:28.33 | claymore | ah, you went west.. i went east. |
| 16:28.36 | claymore | 48 sucks. |
| 16:28.50 | ``Erik | I sent scouts out to 4 regions |
| 16:29.00 | ``Erik | this one seemed the juiciest, so I've been ignoring the others |
| 16:29.38 | claymore | sassy. |
| 16:29.56 | claymore | so how was yoru weekend? |
| 16:30.12 | ``Erik | seems to me that the weak players will try to collet at the center of a galaxy, to hav e'friends' close |
| 16:30.35 | ``Erik | meh, was a weekend... friday morning, I woke up, sat at the lappy in the kitchen, vomited in the coffee mug and called in. |
| 16:30.55 | ``Erik | still doing weekend, since it's my rdo |
| 16:31.29 | ``Erik | far too much paperwork to do when I get in tomorrow :( |
| 16:31.39 | claymore | Well I figured. Sucks about the decaf vomit though... |
| 16:31.48 | claymore | Hardcopy? Ewww? Why? |
| 16:31.55 | ``Erik | uhm, eval shit |
| 16:32.06 | claymore | oh yeah, that. |
| 16:32.07 | ``Erik | I havne't worked that since the darth wendy departure |
| 16:32.12 | claymore | lol |
| 16:32.48 | claymore | She got a job with the Emperor down at the Death Star... nice. |
| 16:32.48 | ``Erik | it's really sad, she doesn't mean ill will, she is just not wired to deal with the CS type folk |
| 16:33.16 | claymore | Well then, who is she wired to deal with... and would you want to meet those people? |
| 16:34.11 | ``Erik | I have no interest in those folk, but I believe she does have a viable role as an xo in a fomulaic setting. |
| 16:35.26 | ``Erik | were I running a ship and needed someone to go rabid dog on details where versatility and imagination were a bad thing, someone like wendy would be a solid choice |
| 16:36.52 | claymore | So team lead for the Morale Supression Team eh? |
| 16:37.05 | claymore | 'The beatings will continue until Morale improves' |
| 16:37.11 | ``Erik | depends on the teams goal |
| 16:37.50 | ``Erik | somethere where creative thought is involved and rules are an obstacle, ... she is not appropriate. :) |
| 16:38.00 | claymore | lol. |
| 16:38.25 | claymore | the Eng on my last ship would have hated her. lol. |
| 16:38.37 | ``Erik | I think there are environments where free thinking may be a hinderance, and she may be appropriate |
| 16:39.18 | ``Erik | I thought she was completely inappropriate as a bc over a SE team, don't get me wrong |
| 16:39.50 | ``Erik | but I don't think she was intentionally evil, I don't think she is without utility... was just the wrong place to stick her |
| 16:40.08 | claymore | He came into Maneuvering to order the Reactor and ER shutdown for port call in Port Canveral FL: "Ensign, the bars open in 45 minutes. A procedural Shutdown takes 2 hours. You have senior watchstanders on watch and I need a drink. Do you understand me?" |
| 16:40.46 | claymore | We went from the Reactor Critical and steaming to shutdown/cold iron in 27 minutes. :) |
| 16:41.07 | ``Erik | never fuck with a captains drinkin' schedule. |
| 16:41.09 | ``Erik | :D |
| 16:41.53 | claymore | well it was the Eng... the CO would have pooped golden bricks if he knew what we did. I swear the ER looked like we just ruptured a Steam Line. Visibility was at 1m at best. :) |
| 16:42.40 | claymore | Me, being rather new at the time, was scare shitless but was told to "sit back and watch" by the senior Electricians. |
| 16:43.45 | claymore | Fun stuff watching a cloud steam blow into maneuvering all the while hearing shouts of laughter from the Engineroom |
| 16:43.48 | ``Erik | I d'no, I grew up on navy bases, did njrotc for a while, have worked under a significant range of bosses... a lot of 'em suck, most don't mean to suck, maybe I'm too forgiving in my old age |
| 16:44.40 | claymore | Perhaps. There are some genuine idiots out there, they just don't know it. |
| 16:45.03 | ``Erik | I think lisa grok'd that she was outclassed and tried to do right, I think wendy was too concerned with looking good and fucked shit up for that, I think steph just wants shit done and doesn't understand what people are telling her |
| 16:45.15 | brlcad | claymore: xkcd is a staple of comic geekdom, I'm a little surprised you've just run across it :) |
| 16:45.33 | ``Erik | I think drew is too damn scared about being blamed, I've called them the kindergarden crowd to bobs face |
| 16:45.38 | brlcad | next you'll be saying you've never head of user friendly |
| 16:45.52 | ``Erik | I think paul is too damn scared of being beaten on to do anything |
| 16:46.04 | claymore | brlcad: Whats your nick all about? |
| 16:46.06 | brlcad | always lurks |
| 16:46.38 | claymore | lol.... kindergarden crowd. |
| 16:46.53 | ``Erik | I think when mike hiked up to deleware for school, he made a damn brilliant choice |
| 16:47.19 | claymore | brlcad: never really was into comics outside of the Far Side, so online comics are only about 3 years old to me. |
| 16:47.30 | ``Erik | I think when justin jumped to drews team and started the georgia tech thing, he blundered into a brilliant decision |
| 16:47.44 | claymore | and yes I have heard of User Friendly. There is one glued to the door of the mens bathroom at work. |
| 16:47.56 | brlcad | catches up |
| 16:48.17 | brlcad | claymore: which nick? |
| 16:48.33 | claymore | bad attempt at sarcasm on my part. nm. |
| 16:49.02 | claymore | I thought Justin was out on the island working with robotics/embeded stuff? |
| 16:49.12 | brlcad | he is |
| 16:49.44 | ``Erik | yeah, uh, drew W was doing robotics under wmrd and moved to vtd, taking his team with him |
| 16:49.53 | claymore | on THAT Drew. |
| 16:50.03 | claymore | I thought you ment F-ing Drew F |
| 16:50.04 | ``Erik | justin doing aviotion and jason doing ground |
| 16:50.07 | ``Erik | no |
| 16:50.20 | ``Erik | not drew f, tha'ts lee's burden, justin is with drew w |
| 16:50.29 | claymore | *confusing* |
| 16:50.35 | claymore | I hate even pseudo politics |
| 16:50.57 | ``Erik | amusingly, I met drew w well before justin moved over, in a social context |
| 16:51.02 | claymore | oh yeah, Heroes is on tonight... don't miss it this time S ;) |
| 16:51.04 | ``Erik | he fly's at sandy hook |
| 16:51.38 | claymore | Sandy's my wife's name. What the hell is he doing with her hook. |
| 16:51.43 | ``Erik | I was watching him do inverted helicoptor tricks before I cut my finger off |
| 16:51.46 | brlcad | claymore: yeah, I know |
| 16:51.49 | ``Erik | well |
| 16:51.51 | ``Erik | dave |
| 16:51.54 | claymore | :) |
| 16:51.55 | ``Erik | we like your wifes hook |
| 16:51.57 | ``Erik | a lot |
| 16:51.59 | ``Erik | ... |
| 16:52.11 | claymore | it IS rather nice .... |
| 16:52.13 | brlcad | claymore: hit ctrl-n a couple times |
| 16:53.02 | claymore | oh, so thats what that means. lol |
| 16:53.14 | claymore | My life's on the net anyways, so I 'm not scared. |
| 16:53.18 | brlcad | private messages and other channels |
| 16:53.45 | brlcad | those are your "windows" |
| 16:54.01 | claymore | Yes, when it comes to the l33t things you guys do, i am still driving my Big Wheel. So be patient. |
| 16:54.14 | ``Erik | oh my, this madhatter boy seems to want a fight |
| 16:54.45 | claymore | lol what did he do now? |
| 16:55.06 | ``Erik | he raped my cyclers |
| 16:55.17 | claymore | looks like vice versa actually |
| 16:55.38 | claymore | his vettes got trashed by your cyclers lol |
| 16:55.49 | ``Erik | no, I hit his 2 credit tr's... that's all I did to him |
| 16:55.57 | claymore | ...so... is that 'trashcan rape' ?? |
| 16:56.08 | ``Erik | he went up on my cyclers, now he gets to feel it |
| 16:57.29 | claymore | New definition of funny: Watching an ide freakout because you accidentally forgot to switch windows back to the IRC channel...lol |
| 17:00.32 | claymore | Good pool from the forums: What Scifi uni has the best ships? BSG, Stargate, bab5, starcraft, starwars, startrek, EvE, Homeworld.... |
| 17:00.52 | claymore | pool = poll for illiterate clods like me. |
| 17:02.19 | claymore | So how are things up in E59? |
| 17:37.40 | brlcad | somewhere between stargate and startrek me thinks .. starwars units are mostly unshielded or easily unshielded, the death star would be shredded by an asgard or ori beam |
| 17:38.37 | claymore | The death star has always stuck me as a 'compensation ship' much like those oversized F-350's with 35" tires and a 40" lift kit. |
| 17:38.38 | brlcad | now a borg ship would be an intersting fight |
| 17:39.20 | claymore | The poll was actually quite intersting... most people based their choice on looks, but a few on functionality.. thus a decent arguement broke out. |
| 17:39.23 | brlcad | bsg ships are just weak |
| 17:39.33 | mafm | Firefly has the best ships |
| 17:39.50 | mafm | one of them as a intergalactic companion ship, with hookers |
| 17:39.56 | brlcad | ff's were fun but also "weak" ;) |
| 17:40.00 | claymore | I was pretty dissapointed wiht the New BSG... they used Missles and Projectile rounds... thats borderline lame! |
| 17:40.33 | claymore | I like the design of FF ships... they feel real and look functional. |
| 17:40.42 | brlcad | sg is the one that takes it way over the top in terms of power and realism, making for some impressively powerful toys |
| 17:40.49 | mafm | brlcad: that's a superficial look on the matter, I look at the content of the ships |
| 17:41.12 | claymore | I also like the way *some* of the BSG ships looked. Viper = stupid, but the Raptor... that looks like something us humans just might build... |
| 17:41.46 | brlcad | mafm: depends what was meant by "best" in that poll -- I took it to mean best at kicking the other ship option's asses ;) |
| 17:41.51 | brlcad | not best resort |
| 17:42.03 | mafm | otoh I haven-t seen any of those, except for Star Trek and Wars (and played Starcraft, but I'm not aware of movies yet) |
| 17:42.14 | claymore | The problem with SG(and the cool thing too) is that its soooo far abstracted from believable that its just plain fun. |
| 17:43.15 | brlcad | liked farscape's moya |
| 17:44.35 | claymore | neat link: www.merzo.net/ |
| 17:47.39 | claymore | brlcad: don't forget to level the playing field Asgard ship Vs Cylon ship is apples and oranges. If there were someway measure and compare the universes... |
| 17:49.27 | brlcad | level the playing field? |
| 17:49.55 | brlcad | isn't that the point of the comparison? :-) given the physics and powers involved, if you mixed them all together .. asgards would kick cylon ass :) |
| 17:50.24 | brlcad | Hm, T????s???ss?? |
| 17:50.32 | brlcad | bahh, no unicode |
| 17:50.42 | claymore | Well, Humans vs cylons in the BSG uni compared to Humans vs Asgard in the SG uni... different 'humans', or level of tech. |
| 17:51.04 | claymore | Perhaps, 'Normalize the Human variable' is a good way to put it. |
| 17:51.28 | mafm | Ünìcõdê FTW |
| 17:55.44 | claymore | I don't speak unicode... what was that again? |
| 17:55.45 | mafm | Stargate is the one with egypcian themes? |
| 17:55.50 | brlcad | sometimes |
| 17:56.10 | mafm | claymore: mine is Unicode with different accents |
| 17:56.20 | brlcad | started with that, they started diverging from the egyptian theme after about 7 years when they ran out of material :) |
| 17:56.35 | mafm | claymore: just to annoy brlcad ;) |
| 17:56.46 | claymore | nice. |
| 17:56.55 | mafm | I think that I only saw the movie(s), not the series |
| 17:57.01 | mafm | I don't have time for series :) |
| 17:57.09 | claymore | Stargate got caughtup in the 'Need a bigger/badder advisary spiral' |
| 17:57.10 | mafm | last was Firefly btw |
| 17:57.26 | claymore | Good series :) |
| 17:58.53 | mafm | well, if you don't count Flying Circus |
| 17:58.53 | claymore | I honestly hate it when a good series goes town the tubes because they run thin on material. |
| 17:59.01 | claymore | Spam? |
| 17:59.11 | mafm | the whole series |
| 17:59.20 | mafm | 40 chapters or so |
| 17:59.33 | claymore | lordy. Got time on your hands or something? |
| 17:59.36 | mafm | but yep, Spam is in there |
| 17:59.56 | starseeker | likes Dahak - needs to become a movie |
| 18:00.10 | brlcad | claymore: hum, I thought SG actually got much better as they ran out of egyptian material |
| 18:00.23 | mafm | well, I don't have TV since 2 years ago, and don't watch it regularly since 5 or so -- and last time I got some time in the evenings, yep |
| 18:00.26 | brlcad | that latter 5 years have been much better than the first 5 imho |
| 18:00.42 | brlcad | the new atlantis one is still under .. evaluation |
| 18:01.01 | brlcad | some good/great, some needing work |
| 18:01.28 | claymore | Well SG did get better when the diversified out from the Egyptian themes, but, imo, they kept introducing new Bigger/Badder races to offset the last Big/Bad race they introduced... |
| 18:01.50 | claymore | Atlantis is *braces* my current fav (Save FF ofcourse). |
| 18:02.37 | starseeker | ``Erik: If you're around, some autoconf advice would be much appreciated |
| 18:02.39 | claymore | Atlantis has very solid characters and a good plot line. Addmittedly, the plot is wavering a little in seasons 3-4 |
| 18:03.02 | claymore | its always a bad sign when they start killing off major characters... |
| 18:03.22 | claymore | just like its a bad sign when they keep introducing new bigger badder races :) |
| 18:05.07 | brlcad | yeah, but that's also some of the best shows too :) |
| 18:05.22 | brlcad | like the latest power beasts from last friday... good stuff :) |
| 18:05.58 | claymore | Are you talking Atlantis? I am 1 season behind current on that one. I wait for the Dvds :) |
| 18:06.03 | brlcad | gotta get yer butt kicked with nearly zero-effort from time to time |
| 18:06.11 | brlcad | ooooh |
| 18:06.25 | brlcad | heh, then I shall try to say no more (no promises) |
| 18:06.32 | brlcad | pretty cool though (so far) |
| 18:07.06 | claymore | lol. thats my favorite formula for a plot line: HUman race getting whooped up on. Matrix, Terminator, S:AB... many many movies/series fit that bill. |
| 18:07.28 | claymore | Best part about Atlantis: They have Kaylee :) |
| 18:09.12 | brlcad | tayla's more my taste :) |
| 18:09.19 | claymore | Oh, does anyone have any news on the FireFly MMO? |
| 18:09.40 | claymore | Agreed, but Inara >> all. She just didn't make it to Atlantis... :( |
| 18:10.08 | brlcad | at least not yet |
| 18:10.29 | brlcad | they left the option open for her to do anything after she ascended |
| 18:10.49 | claymore | her = teyla? |
| 18:12.08 | brlcad | her = inara |
| 18:12.47 | brlcad | Adria |
| 18:13.21 | claymore | lol, i totaly forgot she's in the SG uni also. lol. My life is now complete. |
| 18:24.20 | claymore | Preference Question: What do you prefer, FPS or RTS games? |
| 18:25.49 | brlcad | adventure |
| 18:26.10 | claymore | Cite example... |
| 18:26.59 | mafm | nethack? |
| 18:27.47 | brlcad | Quest for Glory, Space Quest, King's Quest, old infocom games, The Longest Journey, Kyrandia, etc ... |
| 18:28.08 | claymore | Not many modern games do it for you then eh? |
| 18:28.22 | brlcad | "it depends" |
| 18:28.38 | brlcad | but yeah, most of the modern FPS don't do it for me at all |
| 18:28.50 | brlcad | The Longest Journey is modern |
| 18:29.16 | brlcad | there are a couple other modern adventures.. there are usually one or two exceptional ones every other year or so |
| 18:29.35 | claymore | ...perchance a Final Fantasy fan? |
| 18:33.37 | brlcad | never really played it |
| 18:34.07 | claymore | ;) they are a series of games...12 or 13 now I think lol. |
| 18:34.39 | brlcad | yeah, I know -- I used to follow the game, just never played it |
| 18:34.47 | brlcad | more of an RPG ala Ultima |
| 18:34.50 | claymore | The longest Journey... that sounds familiar. Is it puzzle based? |
| 18:35.08 | brlcad | puzzle-based? mmm.. not exactly |
| 18:35.22 | brlcad | it's an adventure, so there are naturally puzzles and mysteries in the game |
| 18:35.29 | brlcad | but I wouldn't say it's "puzzle based" |
| 18:36.09 | claymore | Screenies look cool. Good 100% puzzle based gmaes like the Myst series piss me off after a while. especially after I waste hours on something that turns out to be obvious. grrrr. |
| 18:38.38 | brlcad | the artwork is gorgeous |
| 18:38.52 | brlcad | screenshots on their site don't do it full justice either |
| 18:39.17 | claymore | It looks like a 2D/3D hybrid... |
| 18:39.37 | brlcad | most adventures are |
| 18:43.09 | claymore | ..Bummer, the Bailout bill was reject by the House. Dow is down by 700 points.... not good. not good. |
| 18:47.56 | brlcad | which makes me buying a place right now either really really good or potentially really bad :) |
| 18:48.40 | claymore | Just wait for the housing market to crash a bit more, then buy in nice and cheap. |
| 18:48.59 | claymore | So have you decided on whether you plan on renting or buying? |
| 18:49.02 | brlcad | it could keep crashing for another year |
| 18:49.07 | brlcad | housing-wise |
| 18:49.41 | claymore | Sure could, but its just like any other investment.. buy low, but no one knows when the negative peak will be. |
| 18:49.56 | brlcad | it's been tanking for about 9 months now |
| 18:50.33 | brlcad | true, so I might not optimize the return, but it would/should still be a good deal unless it tanks for like 2-3 years |
| 18:50.40 | brlcad | then i'm just joining in on the fun |
| 18:51.35 | claymore | Well, unless this is the Big Crash that is goung to take down our country, the economy will heal and, given time, will turn any real-estate investment profitable. |
| 18:52.13 | claymore | As long as someone doesnt buy low and sell lower, it shouldn't really affect them. |
| 18:52.28 | brlcad | yeah, I just don't necessarily want to *have* to wait 10 years for a healing :) |
| 18:53.19 | claymore | Well with BRAC happening, certain areas will be Residential Real-Estate investment heaven. |
| 18:54.17 | brlcad | yeah, and I think of the areas being worked .. the places I'm looking at are likely to recover quickly (they've barely dropped as it is compared to some places) |
| 18:54.33 | brlcad | i'm still keeping my options open though, have to find the "right place" |
| 18:54.59 | claymore | Bah, find a fixer and flip it when the market turns :) |
| 18:57.34 | claymore | I hear Dundalk is nice this time of year. *snicker* |
| 18:57.40 | brlcad | neat, autodesk is sueing solidworks |
| 18:59.59 | claymore | Can't find the article. Linkage? |
| 19:00.15 | brlcad | buys a glacial against all the advice to the contrary |
| 19:01.17 | brlcad | http://www.autodesk.com/us/solidworks/Document.pdf |
| 19:01.44 | brlcad | it's the same deal as autodesk suing the open alliance |
| 19:01.52 | brlcad | usage/representation of "DWG" |
| 19:02.02 | brlcad | and a few more things for solidworks |
| 19:03.23 | claymore | This reads like someone stamping their feet and pouting... |
| 19:05.19 | starseeker | brlcad: OK, help. Where's a good configure.ac example of nested enabling? (e.g. if docs enabled, if pdf tool found, enable pdf tool style logic) |
| 19:05.28 | brlcad | starseeker: heh |
| 19:05.35 | brlcad | i'm already working on that |
| 19:05.48 | brlcad | build failures necessitated some hackage |
| 19:05.54 | starseeker | thought this would be so easy... |
| 19:06.18 | brlcad | you had a handful of things 'quirky', couple things wrong |
| 19:06.28 | starseeker | sorry :-( |
| 19:07.00 | claymore | Ease up on himbrlcad, geez! |
| 19:07.00 | brlcad | why is pdf generation separate |
| 19:07.08 | claymore | ;) |
| 19:07.15 | starseeker | deserves it |
| 19:07.25 | brlcad | that's not being hard on him .. :) |
| 19:07.47 | claymore | thinks sarcasm is harder to relay in irc.... |
| 19:08.07 | starseeker | should have had this figured out in an evening |
| 19:08.16 | claymore | If you deserved it, lightening from upon high would have already visited you :) |
| 19:08.27 | claymore | can't spel. |
| 19:08.39 | brlcad | starseeker: what's the pdf generation separated out? |
| 19:08.48 | starseeker | why you mean? |
| 19:08.49 | brlcad | does it make it take hours longer or something? |
| 19:08.57 | brlcad | why is there a docs and a pdf docs option |
| 19:09.00 | starseeker | it might with the full doc build |
| 19:09.05 | brlcad | instead of just a doc option |
| 19:09.13 | starseeker | it's at least 2x longer than html or man |
| 19:10.02 | starseeker | we can go for a docs on/off option if you prefer - I was just trying to be polite if someone wanted docs but not a prolonged pdf build |
| 19:10.12 | brlcad | I could easily see saying that that is just how long it takes to generate the output formats |
| 19:10.35 | starseeker | <grin> That might make the docbook option look less attractive in some eyes ;-). |
| 19:11.47 | starseeker | But regardless, I'd like it to at least give me man/html if fop isn't present |
| 19:11.47 | brlcad | i mean even if it saves them an hour building pdf docs .. that means the configure, compile, and install probably is going to take them more than an hour regardless .. so the savings is really minimal |
| 19:11.47 | starseeker | True |
| 19:11.51 | brlcad | sure, you can still make it autodetect and behave accordingly for a minimal set of docs or something |
| 19:12.55 | brlcad | I just think from an outside user's perspective, we should be giving them all of our docs in all the formats we want to provide |
| 19:13.54 | brlcad | dunno, maybe I just need to feel the pain for a while like you have been doing |
| 19:14.22 | brlcad | but I would start simple regardless before trying to sort out the logic for both |
| 19:15.58 | starseeker | OK, I'll see if I can simplify |
| 19:17.05 | starseeker | If an AC_PATH_PROG doesn't find anything (say, for XSLTPROC) can I spot that in a Makefile.am with an "if !XSLTPROC" |
| 19:17.22 | brlcad | which is sort of where my commit was going to take it |
| 19:17.45 | brlcad | if you can give me a couple min, it might at least push things down the path |
| 19:18.12 | starseeker | k, thanks :-) |
| 19:23.42 | claymore | are you done talking about that work stuff yet? |
| 19:30.01 | brlcad | wasn't talking about work |
| 19:30.03 | brlcad | tis my hobby |
| 19:30.57 | ``Erik | holy fucking shit, you guys talk way too much |
| 19:31.12 | mafm | lol |
| 19:31.17 | brlcad | and you drink too much, it all balances out |
| 19:31.25 | claymore | lol |
| 19:33.55 | ``Erik | stargate started off immensly awesome when the gould were posed as a terrifying race. it quickly lost that, though :( |
| 19:35.26 | ``Erik | <-- flips brlcad off |
| 19:38.18 | claymore | thats not very nice. |
| 19:38.58 | claymore | takes an ACME anvil and drops it off a 105 story building, hitting ``erik on the head.. Meep Meep. |
| 19:39.22 | ``Erik | I, uh, honestly can't recall ever claiming I was nice... :D |
| 19:39.51 | ``Erik | in fact, I believe, I've claimed otherwise on several occasions |
| 19:39.53 | claymore | Well, how much DO you actually recall? |
| 19:40.10 | ``Erik | alrighty then |
| 19:40.14 | ``Erik | flips claymore off, too |
| 19:40.17 | ``Erik | :D |
| 19:40.19 | claymore | lol |
| 19:40.27 | claymore | feels accepted |
| 19:40.39 | ``Erik | I'm literally laughing my ass off here |
| 19:41.24 | brlcad | alcoholic mood swings will do that |
| 19:41.26 | claymore | take pictures. I have never seen someone's ass fall off. |
| 19:41.48 | brlcad | doesn't want to see pictures of erik's ass even if it is falling off |
| 19:42.01 | ``Erik | for some reason, I can't get tegan and sara out of my head |
| 19:42.09 | ``Erik | and, uh, burly, fuck off :D |
| 19:43.33 | claymore | tegan & sara? Who Dat? |
| 19:44.08 | brlcad | mhmm, striving to be a sailor today? |
| 19:44.22 | ``Erik | band outta cankcia |
| 19:44.37 | ``Erik | hit youtube and listen, uh |
| 19:44.45 | ``Erik | "walking with a ghost" was one of their bigger ones |
| 19:46.22 | claymore | eh, mute'n'watch video.... perhaps I will try another. |
| 19:46.45 | brlcad | you can pull a stream on last.fm |
| 19:47.46 | claymore | eh, from what I have seen so far, I think I might pass on that. |
| 19:48.12 | ``Erik | they aint' pretty, but they have a fun groove |
| 19:48.44 | claymore | I am getting a serious 'cranberries' vibe form them.... I don't know how i feel about that... |
| 19:49.09 | ``Erik | hrm, I d'no, I never got into cranberries, but I enjoy these kids |
| 19:49.34 | ``Erik | not sure if I can make a statement of correlation and difference |
| 19:49.50 | claymore | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyp5we2ySDo |
| 19:49.55 | claymore | cranberries. |
| 19:50.27 | ``Erik | yeh, I rememeber that song |
| 19:50.38 | ``Erik | not the same |
| 19:50.59 | claymore | music, no. Voices are close imo. |
| 19:51.23 | ``Erik | I'd disagree, and the focus is radically different |
| 19:51.47 | ``Erik | cranberries are very political in a u2 sorta way, tegan and sara is more.. kinda goofy fun punk |
| 19:52.23 | claymore | there was a nother song (that I can't remember the name of) that the canberries did. That 'walking wiht a ghost' song sounded so much like them that I thought they were a tribute band. Need to look i tup. |
| 19:53.03 | ``Erik | *shrug* |
| 19:53.39 | claymore | either way, i can take about 3-4 mins of those kinda voices before it gets to me :) |
| 19:54.34 | ``Erik | yeh, I agree, neither band has the hours on end listenabilty of AiC or those |
| 19:54.46 | claymore | AiC = ? |
| 19:54.55 | ``Erik | alice in chains |
| 19:55.02 | claymore | ah, agreed then. |
| 19:55.26 | ``Erik | layne has a zomfg vocal ability that I think has never been equaled |
| 19:55.28 | claymore | I have been spining Ride the Lighting recently... forgot ho wmuch lik like the earlier albums |
| 19:55.30 | ``Erik | had |
| 19:55.57 | ``Erik | meh, metallica was decent in the day, it really felt like cliff was the carrying factor, though |
| 19:56.03 | mafm | heading home |
| 19:56.41 | claymore | True, he was a major loss. As retarded as he is in real life, kirk is a damn good guitarist. |
| 19:56.47 | ``Erik | I mean, the first 3 albums... awesome as shit... cliff died, 'and justice for all' was, well, weak, and the stuff after was shit |
| 19:56.53 | claymore | The same could be said for lars. |
| 19:57.00 | starseeker | I died? |
| 19:57.15 | claymore | Didn you get that memo? |
| 19:57.17 | ``Erik | no, dude, the awesome cliff, not you |
| 19:57.21 | ``Erik | :D |
| 19:57.34 | claymore | You failed to turn in your TPS reports and were thus killed. |
| 19:57.48 | starseeker | TPS? |
| 19:57.56 | ``Erik | cliff burton |
| 19:58.13 | claymore | has never been in a workplace so devoid of Office Space knowledge... |
| 19:58.30 | ``Erik | uh,yeah, . .. uh... |
| 19:58.47 | ``Erik | we might need to fire starseeker |
| 19:59.00 | claymore | Well, I am out. Gotta meeting with the Bob's. Cya |
| 19:59.05 | ``Erik | m3 did tps reports for a couple years |
| 19:59.09 | *** join/#brlcad iandaletter (n=asus@217.118.79.35) |
| 20:03.26 | starseeker | ``Erik: Sorry, distracted - was having a conversation with Mike |
| 20:07.53 | ``Erik | heh |
| 20:58.09 | iandaletter | where can i see examples of docbook? |
| 20:59.38 | PrezKennedy | im thinking about buying stock in apple |
| 21:00.16 | iandaletter | doc/docbook in source tree - can not find source tree, |
| 21:06.03 | iandaletter | PrezKennedy: i'm about to marry your doughter... that younger one... |
| 21:06.33 | PrezKennedy | jokes on you if she told you shes related to me |
| 21:06.36 | PrezKennedy | i have no kids |
| 21:08.09 | iandaletter | no, you have! |
| 21:08.20 | iandaletter | from Monica! |
| 21:09.19 | iandaletter | PrezKennedy: do you know english quite well? |
| 21:09.43 | PrezKennedy | Nein ich sprechen sie Deutsch. |
| 21:09.52 | PrezKennedy | :) |
| 21:09.58 | iandaletter | What is right to say: "I was" or "Iwere"? |
| 21:10.01 | iandaletter | i were |
| 21:10.17 | PrezKennedy | i was |
| 21:10.17 | iandaletter | he/she/it V-s |
| 21:10.29 | iandaletter | and i/we V? |
| 21:10.42 | iandaletter | why? |
| 21:10.43 | PrezKennedy | I was/We were |
| 21:11.25 | iandaletter | i was... no. "we were" and "i were", too |
| 21:12.18 | PrezKennedy | I were is not correct |
| 21:12.25 | iandaletter | ok... |
| 21:12.29 | iandaletter | thanks |
| 21:12.41 | PrezKennedy | were is for plural |
| 21:13.32 | iandaletter | yes, but "he goes" and "I go"... I + V. not I + V-s, right? |
| 21:14.22 | iandaletter | PrezKennedy: can you change the grammar laws? at least until this year? |
| 21:15.04 | PrezKennedy | it would be even better to say "He is going" and "I am going" |
| 21:15.58 | iandaletter | ok, but not when we say about regular events |
| 21:16.05 | *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net) |
| 21:16.28 | iandaletter | ok, i just have some white or black spots in my grammar book |
| 21:16.44 | iandaletter | ...in my grammar. |
| 21:16.58 | PrezKennedy | grammar isnt fun... im terrible with german grammar |
| 21:17.46 | iandaletter | but it is considered to be relatively easy... I want to know it, too - but have no time for this... |
| 21:18.34 | iandaletter | there's a link at second entry to German grammar at my http://pastime-one.livejournal.com/ |
| 22:23.23 | starseeker | brlcad: Did you decide on a good configure setup? |
| 22:32.32 | iandaletter | starseeker: so, DocBook is an .xml... |
| 22:34.24 | iandaletter | how about that samples... fr, de, it, pe, sp are bad though... incorrect words... but teasing for those knowing these languages |
| 22:34.58 | starseeker | iandaletter: Haven't had a chance to look yet - slamming through some paperwork right now :-( |
| 22:35.08 | starseeker | iandaletter: Yes, docbook is xml based |
| 22:35.31 | starseeker | doc/docbook is a subdirectory in the current subversion repository for BRL-CAD |
| 22:35.46 | iandaletter | and what about e.g. the biggest section, mged's commands? |
| 22:36.03 | iandaletter | ok, gimmme a alink |
| 22:36.19 | starseeker | There's a reworking of the documentation for MGED's commands in the works - one docbook man page per command |
| 22:36.25 | starseeker | hang on, getting link |
| 22:37.28 | iandaletter | ok, and what can you say about the translation I've supplied to my letter? |
| 22:37.39 | starseeker | http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/ |
| 22:41.15 | starseeker | I don't think we want to have all languages present in one document. For the case of MGED commands, it may be possible to have a language variable that points the help commands to a specific subdirectory |
| 22:41.44 | starseeker | brlcad and I were discussing how to set things up for translations a while back - I don't think we had reached a definite decision as yet |
| 22:43.52 | *** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202) |
| 22:44.43 | starseeker | brlcad: What's our position on automatic translations? I'm thinking we probably need human verification of correctness at a minimum before they're accepted into the tree |
| 22:48.47 | iandaletter | the main point of translation: |
| 22:49.20 | iandaletter | 1. English is the main since program is English |
| 22:51.04 | iandaletter | 2. English words are quite easy to understand, so translations are... just partial, a main explanation - just as I've done. Rather a way to... well, i don't know... |
| 22:51.27 | starseeker | we're very much in favor of translations |
| 22:51.43 | starseeker | the question is how to structure their storage in the svn repository, and how to handle quality assurance |
| 22:51.46 | iandaletter | ok, but it can be included - since it is an open source (point 1) |
| 22:51.53 | iandaletter | and (point 2): |
| 22:52.17 | iandaletter | someone can easily edit it, since it is already formatted into the book |
| 22:52.50 | iandaletter | starseeker: e.g. old mged_cmd_index.html |
| 22:54.14 | iandaletter | command, then wide description on each language - then options, described on english - since interface and everything is English, and it is relatively easy to know English words worldwide |
| 22:56.10 | starseeker | iandaletter: Are you talking about where to store the translations? |
| 22:57.49 | iandaletter | yes, and at the same time - how to offer to someone, e.g. french, to vise the automatic translation - whilst he study commands |
| 22:58.04 | iandaletter | yes, where to store? |
| 22:58.21 | starseeker | We're planning to make all the docbook documentation editable through a wiki-style interface in Drupal (our user website) |
| 22:58.39 | iandaletter | i would do it as "addition" to english description |
| 22:59.47 | starseeker | I would prefer not to mix languages in individual files. For one thing, the file timestamps are an excellent way of keeping track of what has recently changed and which translations are not up to date. For another, it makes processing the docs into one-language files for output more difficult |
| 22:59.53 | starseeker | I have another idea, however |
| 23:00.03 | starseeker | There is an ability in DocBook called XInclude |
| 23:00.58 | starseeker | It allows Docbook files to include parts of other files automatically. For translation files, we can "include" the main (English) version of the file in the translation |
| 23:00.59 | iandaletter | well, don't know what drupal is, but as long as we edit it - why don't offer a bit funny automatic translation? Shall be included... It's not hard. |
| 23:01.32 | starseeker | There may be licensing restrictions on the automatic output of a translation program - what does the license say? |
| 23:02.08 | starseeker | For translated files, once the translation of the original file becomes complete the original included English version can be removed. |
| 23:02.33 | iandaletter | I don't really know much in coding pages, though. Ok, then e,g, /.../mged/3ptarb8.xml on english, and "additions" to it on fr, de, and so on? |
| 23:03.29 | iandaletter | EasyTranslatorDelux 4 for windows (through wine under linux Ubuntu 8.04) |
| 23:03.35 | iandaletter | wait... |
| 23:04.35 | starseeker | I was thinking docbook/en/mged/3ptarb8.xml and docbook/ru/mged/3ptarb8.xml with the russion version XIncluding the english version until complete. |
| 23:04.45 | starseeker | but that's what I need to discuss with brlcad |
| 23:05.45 | iandaletter | ok, looks good - but! you shall know |
| 23:06.11 | iandaletter | people do not like to see tricky translations... |
| 23:06.26 | starseeker | tricky in what sense? |
| 23:06.42 | iandaletter | en, then the variaNT ON another language - that's the way |
| 23:06.55 | iandaletter | when someone download it |
| 23:07.10 | iandaletter | e.g. en variant - it is only english, |
| 23:07.34 | starseeker | Oh, you mean not making it clear en is the main language? |
| 23:08.04 | iandaletter | when someone downloads e.g. russian variant - it is english + partially russian variant, where "russian" is e.g. a wide description, whil |
| 23:08.33 | iandaletter | ...while e.g. options are wrote still on english |
| 23:09.10 | starseeker | The goal would be to gradually have the ru docs become fully Russian |
| 23:10.21 | iandaletter | well, just.. ""100% english + 60% russian"" - as a recipe of russian version, or any another language... it is hard to translate... interface of the program remains english, since program was developed as english - and this is a main point |
| 23:10.41 | iandaletter | ok, can i send you file? |
| 23:10.45 | iandaletter | example? |
| 23:11.10 | starseeker | Sure |
| 23:11.28 | starseeker | However, the ability to have the interface of the program itself translated would also be of interest |
| 23:12.11 | iandaletter | no, your last comment is potentially wrong! |
| 23:12.52 | iandaletter | mistakes and hard-spelling - this is what it is. My friends hate translated interfaces |
| 23:13.21 | iandaletter | some words have no place to be fit into the menu... |
| 23:15.15 | iandaletter | "translated" means usually "cumbersome" - while people able and really know ebglish quite well, even at school |
| 23:15.52 | starseeker | Well, I suppose that depends on the quality of the translation - I wouldn't expect that I could sit down with an English-*Language* dictionary and make a good interface translation |
| 23:17.29 | iandaletter | ok, i send you: first command represent version 1 of translation |
| 23:18.17 | iandaletter | and second command 3ptarb - version 2 of translation |
| 23:19.23 | iandaletter | if we will have translated both options in manual and command promt in the program, it would be probably right - and we can do it |
| 23:19.41 | louipc | wow lots of chit chat |
| 23:20.36 | iandaletter | louipc: what do you think? |
| 23:21.40 | iandaletter | starseeker: i'm sending at the rocket speed of 1.5 kbps |
| 23:22.22 | starseeker | heh |
| 23:22.25 | starseeker | ouch |
| 23:22.27 | louipc | I don't know. I didn't read the chit chat. |
| 23:22.28 | louipc | smiles |
| 23:22.36 | starseeker | read the chit chat! |
| 23:22.49 | starseeker | :-P |
| 23:22.57 | iandaletter | starseeker: i think we can save a feature to see all available languages - as a feature (point 1), and... |
| 23:23.12 | louipc | It's way too much. no way! |
| 23:23.33 | louipc | you're making russian docs is that it? |
| 23:23.49 | louipc | I think I heard something about french docs too? |
| 23:24.00 | iandaletter | ...how can we ranslate command promt? if "help" is on ru, and promt is english - it can be a bit cumbersome |
| 23:24.01 | louipc | heard/read |
| 23:24.30 | louipc | which command prompt? |
| 23:24.33 | iandaletter | louipc: fr, de, it, pr, sp, ru |
| 23:24.52 | starseeker | iandaletter: Not sure what the best approach is there - need to take some time and think about it. |
| 23:24.54 | louipc | there are some translators lined up eh? |
| 23:25.07 | louipc | gettext wouldn't it be? |
| 23:25.11 | iandaletter | command promt of mged - can be translated, too - but not just at once |
| 23:25.21 | iandaletter | ok |
| 23:25.30 | iandaletter | just: |
| 23:25.44 | louipc | you mean "mged>" ? |
| 23:25.45 | louipc | :P |
| 23:25.51 | iandaletter | command promt of mged remains on english - right? |
| 23:26.00 | iandaletter | louipc: yes |
| 23:26.22 | louipc | no need to translate that one :P |
| 23:26.45 | louipc | "attach (nu|X|ogl)[nu]?" could use translating sure |
| 23:27.01 | starseeker | to English? ;-) |
| 23:27.27 | starseeker | louipc: Is gettext the standard solution for translation? |
| 23:27.33 | starseeker | isn't up on this stuff yet |
| 23:27.34 | iandaletter | then translated variant contains same e.g. 40% of english language, and everybody knows english quite good to unerstand simple worlds - kids or grannies :) |
| 23:27.35 | louipc | yes |
| 23:28.31 | iandaletter | starseeker: you need to rethink another thing, i gues... |
| 23:28.46 | iandaletter | "..guess..." |
| 23:29.05 | iandaletter | it can be not a simple docbook... |
| 23:29.06 | louipc | attach, attacher, juntar |
| 23:29.25 | starseeker | iandaletter: how come? |
| 23:30.00 | iandaletter | this manual can unite people who know en, sp and ru - and they will unerstand they're all the same, and we will've created a peace in the world |
| 23:30.02 | louipc | it can if the tools are there |
| 23:30.03 | iandaletter | starseeker: ? |
| 23:30.12 | louipc | if the tools aren't there then make them :D |
| 23:30.18 | starseeker | why can't it be Docbook? |
| 23:30.31 | louipc | because xml sucks |
| 23:30.36 | louipc | jokes |
| 23:30.41 | starseeker | Heh. |
| 23:31.12 | iandaletter | Then Docbook with features |
| 23:31.27 | iandaletter | starseeker: how about a command promt after "mged>"? |
| 23:31.32 | louipc | one fellow was adamant on arguing for TeX |
| 23:31.34 | iandaletter | it is on english... |
| 23:31.51 | iandaletter | starseeker: ? |
| 23:31.55 | louipc | iandaletter: yeah like try 'in' |
| 23:32.26 | iandaletter | well, i just say about the "policy" of translation... |
| 23:32.35 | iandaletter | it can be different... |
| 23:32.43 | louipc | yeah that can't be in docbook |
| 23:32.57 | louipc | the program interaction/output |
| 23:33.05 | iandaletter | "full" translation is always... non-creative... |
| 23:33.25 | louipc | well, perhaps it could somehow but I don't think it would make any sense |
| 23:34.05 | iandaletter | louipc: what sense? |
| 23:34.24 | louipc | forget I said that |
| 23:34.36 | starseeker | iandaletter: Ah, you're talking about the command prompt commands themselves. Yes, initially they would be English, since they are the literal representation of what is typed in. However, I would expect ru/ documentation to be in Russian except where expressing the actual command |
| 23:34.46 | louipc | gettext is how you translate stuff |
| 23:35.20 | louipc | what could be translated is stuff like: Enter name of solid:, Enter solid type:, Enter X, Y, Z of vertex: |
| 23:35.58 | iandaletter | starseeker: as in files i've sent you? Just edit them, and send to me - i will do it as you wish... I want to know mged's comands - and I need it, well, soon |
| 23:36.47 | iandaletter | louipc: but e.g. I know this english words from the age of 10 - no one really needs it! |
| 23:37.20 | starseeker | Iandaletter: Heh - just got it |
| 23:37.23 | starseeker | reads |
| 23:37.26 | Ralith | iandaletter: plenty of people are far more comfortable in their native language than english, assuming they even know english. |
| 23:37.36 | louipc | iandaletter: oh I thought that's what you wanted when you were talking about command prompts |
| 23:38.19 | starseeker | iandaletter: I was thinking more along the lines of 3ptarb (the 2nd command) |
| 23:38.34 | iandaletter | Everyone know english... I will work in www.code-aster.org soon - it is fully-french... - then i will have studied a couple of hundred foreign words + additional theory on eng 'n'such |
| 23:38.46 | starseeker | iandaletter: Again though - I need to discuss with brlcad |
| 23:38.51 | starseeker | he is the project leader |
| 23:39.03 | louipc | ok so what are we talking about translation then? |
| 23:39.09 | louipc | is confused |
| 23:39.10 | starseeker | yes |
| 23:39.17 | starseeker | translating the docs to multiple languages |
| 23:39.55 | starseeker | iandaletter sent me an example translation of two of the MGED command docs |
| 23:40.10 | iandaletter | Ralith: no, it is easy to translate it... words as "Enter", location - even too interesting, but it can be translated, anyway |
| 23:40.21 | louipc | cool |
| 23:40.42 | louipc | oh you're debating whether it should be in the repo or not? |
| 23:41.01 | starseeker | The difficulty with any translation is how to store the translations in a coherent way - which is compounded in this case by the docs already being put through a major reorg |
| 23:41.10 | louipc | hmm |
| 23:41.29 | iandaletter | starseeker: i have one 300 kb mged_cmd_index.html - and i've sent you an example of first 6- or nine commands... in n, fr, de and hand-edited russian |
| 23:41.29 | Ralith | translated docs, you always have an issue keeping them up to date |
| 23:41.30 | louipc | doc/en, doc/ru? :P |
| 23:41.37 | louipc | yea |
| 23:41.47 | starseeker | Ralith: Docs, period |
| 23:41.53 | louipc | yea |
| 23:41.53 | Ralith | makes me wonder if perhaps no translations should be done when there is not someone who can be relied upon to keep it updated |
| 23:42.10 | starseeker | our ENGLISH stuff isn't even up to date |
| 23:42.39 | starseeker | but it's a problem that needs solving, and the community can be a big help (both with english docs and with translation) |
| 23:42.50 | starseeker | what's needed is a framework within which that work can take place |
| 23:42.58 | starseeker | that's what I'm trying to work out now |
| 23:42.59 | louipc | yeah |
| 23:43.01 | iandaletter | Ralith: there was a talk about wiki engine, it's not a big question - the answer is "Someone, who study brl-cad right now" |
| 23:44.06 | louipc | tutorials would be handy |
| 23:44.08 | iandaletter | starseeker: what if other language will be "a short addition" to original 'english' page? |
| 23:44.23 | louipc | tutorials on how to make accurate solid models of real things |
| 23:44.47 | Ralith | louipc: do you really need a tutorial for that after going through the mged tut? |
| 23:44.50 | starseeker | iandaletter: That might be an OK way to start, but I'd really rather not mix languages except for the "English command" part of things |
| 23:44.51 | Ralith | I only made it about 1 |
| 23:44.52 | louipc | not contorted unrealistic radio/candlestick thingies |
| 23:44.52 | Ralith | er |
| 23:45.01 | Ralith | I only made it about 1/3 through and I have a pretty solid idea how to model real stuff |
| 23:45.09 | Ralith | (hehe, solid idea) |
| 23:45.17 | iandaletter | it is just better, believe me... everything can be edited - not even somehow "properly" - but into DIFFERENT VARIANTS - AND IT WILL BE COOL, ANYWAY! |
| 23:45.17 | starseeker | louipc: Heh - I'm hoping to get down to the National Archives one of these days and poke around |
| 23:45.22 | louipc | I'm trying to make something right now and it's not intuitive from a machinist's perspective |
| 23:45.39 | louipc | well not that it needs to be intuitive |
| 23:46.14 | starseeker | iandaletter: I will discuss with brlcad tomorrow, if he is in tomorrow. Deciding how to set this up is not something I can do by myself - he is lead developer |
| 23:46.23 | louipc | well once I figure it out I might document the process |
| 23:46.38 | iandaletter | starseeker: ok, i'll send you e.g. first 10 commands of mged-cmd-index as separate files in directories /en and /ru |
| 23:46.42 | louipc | or at least I will, in a very simple fashion |
| 23:46.53 | starseeker | iandaletter: Excellent! Thank you! |
| 23:46.57 | louipc | starseeker: nice |
| 23:47.08 | iandaletter | ok, then i'll have supplied you with files today! |
| 23:47.22 | starseeker | hopes they have enough engineering plans for U.S.S. Monitor to make a detailed model |
| 23:47.42 | iandaletter | starseeker: i can save each command as docbook from openoffice, will it be right? |
| 23:47.55 | starseeker | iandaletter: That will be fine |
| 23:48.05 | iandaletter | ok |
| 23:48.43 | iandaletter | then... later... I'm still ending up cam expert |
| 23:49.01 | iandaletter | ok, i quit... morning...is here |
| 23:49.02 | louipc | Ralith: I'm curious what's your occupational/technical background? |
| 23:49.13 | *** part/#brlcad iandaletter (n=asus@217.118.79.35) |
| 23:49.43 | Ralith | louipc: hobbyist/student |
| 23:50.18 | Ralith | largely selftaught with respect to the interesting stuff, but I generally know what I'm talking about |
| 23:54.10 | louipc | well one thing I find is that I need a calculator when modelling with brl-cad, where I don't seem to really need it with autocad or solidworks. |
| 23:56.31 | Ralith | this is probably because autocad and solidworks don't need exact numerical values for everything right off |
| 23:56.36 | Ralith | and let you do things like snap |
| 23:56.52 | Ralith | rather than a fancy tutorial, I suggest more effort be put into the new gui |
| 23:57.08 | louipc | no I enter all dimensions in autocad |
| 23:57.33 | louipc | but one example: I have to specify radius instead of diametre |
| 23:57.46 | louipc | so I need to half it in the calculator then enter it |
| 23:58.47 | Ralith | radius is a much more useful measurement. |
| 23:59.36 | louipc | not when I'm dealing with diametres of a shaft turned off a lathe, etc |