| 00:05.05 | *** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-10.sbndin.btas.verizon.net) |
| 00:31.39 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33969 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/ (844 files in 82 dirs): merge trunk to STABLE from r33711 to HEAD r33968, syncs rel-7-14-4 candidate |
| 01:22.15 | starseeker | grinds teeth as his efforts at work on the mac flop on gentoo AGAIN |
| 01:39.46 | bjorkintosh | so ... |
| 01:39.56 | bjorkintosh | how comes the mged tutorial is in reverse order? |
| 01:42.43 | brlcad | bjorkintosh: reverse order in what way? |
| 01:43.25 | bjorkintosh | Postscript Version (258 pages, in reverse order). |
| 01:43.48 | bjorkintosh | from this page: http://ftp.arl.army.mil/~mike/papers/88mged/ |
| 01:43.57 | brlcad | jeez, that's old |
| 01:44.20 | bjorkintosh | indeed. is it not worth reading at all then? |
| 01:44.46 | brlcad | reverse order probably because of some printer that required it to output in-order |
| 01:44.59 | bjorkintosh | 'cause some very kind people in #ghostscript (kens) righted the order! |
| 01:45.01 | bjorkintosh | and emailed it to me. |
| 01:45.11 | bjorkintosh | in both pdf and ps. |
| 01:46.27 | brlcad | you could certainly read it, but realize that it was written in '88 .. 21 years ago |
| 01:46.35 | brlcad | a couple things have changed |
| 01:46.48 | bjorkintosh | what's a good replacement for the document? |
| 01:48.20 | brlcad | bjorkintosh: have you even been to the main website? :) |
| 01:48.25 | bjorkintosh | yes. |
| 01:49.19 | brlcad | then it should be kinda obvious, I'd hope |
| 01:50.30 | bjorkintosh | intro to mged. |
| 01:50.33 | bjorkintosh | indeedy. |
| 01:54.29 | bjorkintosh | deep curiousity... i just had to read it |
| 01:54.42 | bjorkintosh | it was a little too annoying to read it in the reverse order though. |
| 02:31.37 | starseeker | smashes scl into building on gentoo and tars up for testing on the mac... |
| 02:40.42 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33970 10/brlcad/tags/rel-7-14-4/: |
| 02:40.42 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: stable merging and testing finally finished, tag 7.14.4 |
| 02:40.42 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: next time use a faster machine. |
| 02:44.06 | starseeker | brlcad: Are we open for committing again? |
| 02:46.16 | brlcad | not until you see step 14 |
| 02:48.39 | starseeker | k |
| 02:49.26 | bjorkintosh | i got an old book called the art of 3-d design... it's revived all these latent interests again. |
| 02:49.38 | bjorkintosh | i'm going to try to work through it using brl cad |
| 02:50.40 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33971 10/brlcad/trunk/ (NEWS README include/conf/PATCH): post-release bump revision number to 7.14.5 in anticipation of 7.14.6 |
| 02:57.32 | starseeker | realizes he shouldn't commit this until he has it in a form that won't bust distcheck anyway |
| 02:59.40 | brlcad | bjorkintosh: cool, feel free to share your progress as you work through it |
| 02:59.50 | brlcad | and of course ask away if you have questions |
| 03:00.15 | brlcad | starseeker: indeed |
| 03:00.43 | bjorkintosh | i will. |
| 03:01.01 | bjorkintosh | so far, all the examples from muus's manual have worked. |
| 03:01.23 | bjorkintosh | i'm guessing mged is fully backwards compatible? |
| 03:01.46 | starseeker | not guaranteed, but it's not surprising a lot of it still works |
| 03:02.49 | bjorkintosh | very well then, i shall go through the entire thing and note any broken parts... |
| 03:03.12 | bjorkintosh | i've been skipping the hardware specific content though |
| 03:03.15 | bjorkintosh | so i'm cheating a little. |
| 03:08.14 | brlcad | if you see /dev/sgip, just replace it with /dev/X |
| 03:09.25 | bjorkintosh | okay. |
| 03:10.15 | bjorkintosh | is tcl/tk already in it's 20somethings?! |
| 03:10.20 | bjorkintosh | i'm rather surprised... |
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| 04:33.57 | Ralith | it's pretty old |
| 04:34.04 | Ralith | you can tell by how ugly its widgets are >_> |
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| 11:54.57 | brlcad | Ralith: it actually has a fully revamped look n' feel now (the new ttk widgets) |
| 11:56.15 | brlcad | fully themable widget set, http://wiki.tcl.tk/11075 |
| 12:10.36 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r33972 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/chgmodel.c: |
| 12:10.36 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: updated f_qorot() to properly rotate around point,direction related |
| 12:10.36 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: to BUG "[ 2663014 ] qorot does not rotate around vector". |
| 12:33.15 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01) |
| 13:20.37 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r33973 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libwdb/wdb.c: |
| 13:20.37 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: changed vertex ordering in mk_rpp() to match new arb8 ordering |
| 13:20.37 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: this relates to BUG "[ 2663183 ] arb8/rpp vertex order different" |
| 13:28.45 | ``Erik_ | uh |
| 13:29.25 | ``Erik_ | oh, that's keith hah |
| 13:29.37 | d-lo | it lives! i mean, Hey Erik! |
| 13:29.43 | ``Erik_ | yo, dave |
| 13:29.55 | d-lo | hows your new office? |
| 13:30.05 | ``Erik_ | not bad now that the light is off |
| 13:30.08 | ``Erik_ | :D |
| 13:30.35 | ``Erik_ | here, wait, lemme push my sub up against the wall and crank it, ya'll didn't want that whiteboard to stay attached, didja? :D |
| 13:30.37 | ``Erik_ | *duck* |
| 13:31.09 | d-lo | What we need is a McDonalds Style Drive Thru window in our wall. I see no end to the entertainment with that. :) |
| 13:31.13 | ``Erik_ | ooh, I could stand on a desk and push the ceiling tile up and throw shit at ya, too :D awesome |
| 13:31.26 | d-lo | Sub? "You don't have the balls" to do that ;) |
| 13:31.36 | d-lo | Well, not shit, but stuff. |
| 13:36.44 | *** join/#brlcad piksi (n=piksi@pi-xi.net) |
| 13:37.21 | piksi | hi, on the brlcad homepage you state that "The solid modeling system is frequently used in a wide range of military, academic, and industrial applications including in the design and analysis of vehicles, mechanical parts, and architecture." |
| 13:37.28 | piksi | are there any examples of brl's usage in architecture? |
| 13:48.11 | piksi | in the quest for a foss bim modeler for architecture i've stumbled upon brl numerous times |
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| 14:03.58 | brlcad | hi pk |
| 14:04.01 | brlcad | er, piksi |
| 14:04.40 | piksi | hi |
| 14:05.11 | brlcad | piksi: you'd stumble upon us mostly becasue we are 'the' (only/main) foss CAD system in production use (that we're aware of, fully foss) |
| 14:05.47 | brlcad | most of our architecture history has been folks modeling buildings that perform loading and structural analyses |
| 14:06.04 | brlcad | like what happens when you explode something near a pillar |
| 14:06.42 | brlcad | alas, not so much bim requirements as modeling for the purpose of running very specific analyses |
| 14:06.54 | brlcad | or for generating basic drawings/visualizations |
| 14:06.58 | piksi | brlcad: yep, i know. there really really aren't any viable realistic cad options in foss apart form brl |
| 14:07.06 | brlcad | nods |
| 14:07.32 | piksi | there's an interest in the architecture field to strive away from autodesk due to their licensing and horrendous reliability |
| 14:07.54 | piksi | and there have been some isolated efforts to develop from architects to architects software |
| 14:08.22 | piksi | i'm just thinking how realistic basis could brl be for a plugin(?) or other framework on top of it for bim/nurbs modelling of buildings |
| 14:08.36 | piksi | as far as i've understood brl understands materials very well? |
| 14:10.45 | brlcad | depends what you mean my "understands", but there is support for material types, region identifiers, arbitrary attributes |
| 14:11.39 | brlcad | our new modeling environment is specifically being designed to (hopefully) be fully plugin-based with modular pieces of functionality that lets us plug in old as well as new features |
| 14:12.06 | brlcad | biggest issue is really just developer manpower -- the user demand is much much greater than the developer capacity |
| 14:12.46 | brlcad | and the few folks (not on our team) that could be devs are either off doing their own project or doing CAD development for their day job |
| 14:13.05 | brlcad | at least, as far as I can tell ;) |
| 14:18.58 | piksi | yeah it's completely understandable :-) |
| 14:19.59 | piksi | i could perhaps get a few developers working on it but the funding would be from architects so the focus would be either on a fork or extensions for architectural bim... |
| 14:33.52 | piksi | so who are funding brl-development right now? |
| 14:34.24 | brlcad | piksi: wouldn't need to be a fork per-se |
| 14:34.44 | piksi | yeah i'm always against forking if it's avoidable :-) |
| 14:34.53 | brlcad | there is plenty of mutual interest/overlap -- the bigger issue just might be how the GUI evolves or how a new one is developed |
| 14:35.43 | brlcad | brl-cad is still heavily funded by ARL |
| 14:36.22 | brlcad | more than half the core devs are paid by or affiliated with the gov't in some fashion |
| 14:38.30 | brlcad | most development, though, happens via simple consensus discussions where design decisions have to be made, only influenced by a developer meritocracy (i.e., those who contribute decide) |
| 14:41.08 | piksi | brlcad: ok |
| 14:41.28 | piksi | yeah the gui is a big issue |
| 14:41.48 | brlcad | if you've not seen this: http://brlcad.org/BRL-CAD_Priorities.png |
| 14:42.40 | brlcad | that's our major project priorities (regardless of funding support, though most of that has major support too) |
| 14:43.26 | brlcad | brep/nurbs support, networked geometry service, enhanced gui, and more open source collaboration |
| 14:44.25 | brlcad | starseeker: tcl/tk aren't creating symlinks/copies -- something is missing from src/other/tcl/unix/Makefile.in and/or tk's too |
| 14:49.21 | piksi | brlcad: there are plenty of ideas for the gui on making architecture efficent which might interest also the funders oand developers of brl |
| 14:50.07 | piksi | because we architects know very well something that isn't usable (due tot the horrendousness of many commercial solutions such as ArchiCAD, AutoCAD ADT etc ;-) |
| 14:51.37 | brlcad | piksi: how much of that is really architecture-specific as it pertains to a gui? |
| 14:52.54 | brlcad | to date, we've intentionally tried to utilize domain-agnostic metaphors so that the package is really generalized to most CAD/solid modeling needs |
| 14:53.20 | brlcad | otherwise we'd gravitate towards CAE and analysis terms that are very niche |
| 14:53.34 | brlcad | (which would be bad imnsho) |
| 14:55.08 | piksi | brlcad: well, autocad architecture (used to be autocad architectural desktop) is a prime example how how bim modelling cannot be glued on top of a pure line/solid cad modeller |
| 14:55.45 | brlcad | for domain-specific terms and metaphors, I'm hoping/intending that the new GUI be modular enough to have "overlays" where you get domain-specific (drafting, CAM, Architecture, electronics, etc) |
| 14:56.05 | brlcad | piksi: you'll have to explain, never used it |
| 14:56.11 | brlcad | nor even seen it |
| 14:56.47 | brlcad | plus, was it a bad design, or bad execution (or both) .. could be a great idea and a horrible implementation |
| 14:57.26 | piksi | yes i'm very much for minimal basic gui with minimal restrictions on modularity (so that the basis of the gui will not restrict modifying it suitable for a certain job) |
| 14:57.29 | piksi | well |
| 14:57.42 | piksi | brlcad: bad design && bad execution :-) |
| 14:57.43 | piksi | but |
| 14:59.18 | piksi | brlcad: autocad ADT was a prime example of how the 30 year old autocad paradigm was so restrictive that it didn't allow for an easily usable bim modeller on top of it. so it had a LOT of redundancies and also counterintuitive actions and in addition many of the tools had different usage logic |
| 14:59.49 | piksi | so a random set of (old) tools worked with a certain logic and a random set of other tools implemented later worked with a completely different logic |
| 15:00.00 | piksi | (and i very much prefer a PROPER CLI in a modeler) |
| 15:00.36 | piksi | i hope this explains something |
| 15:39.49 | starseeker | brlcad: re: tcl/tk - OK, I'll see if I can track it down |
| 15:40.06 | starseeker | grr, I thought I had all the major functional updates |
| 15:41.28 | *** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@archlinux/trusteduser/louipc) |
| 15:45.03 | starseeker | ah I see it |
| 15:51.04 | starseeker | hmm - no, wait... |
| 15:51.46 | louipc | are there plans for a 7.14.4 tarball? |
| 15:52.48 | starseeker | should be - that's standard |
| 15:52.55 | starseeker | brlcad: want me to take care of that part? |
| 15:53.16 | louipc | ok, just wondering hehe |
| 15:54.08 | louipc | I can pull off of svn, but some other people may not follow releases/tagging as closely |
| 16:05.04 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33974 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tk/unix/Makefile.in: Re-add change to Makefile.in from revision 30417 |
| 16:10.43 | starseeker | brlcad: OK, that looks like it got it - tk didn't know what SHLIB_SUFFIX was so it's no surprise things weren't working |
| 16:13.37 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r33975 10/rt^3/trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs): modification of a combination's tree |
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| 16:35.54 | brlcad | piksi: yeah, that does (I think) :) |
| 16:36.03 | brlcad | sounds quite congruent too |
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| 16:47.25 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33976 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/src/other/tk/unix/Makefile.in: Add fix for tk unix Makefile.in from trunk rev 33974 to STABLE branch |
| 17:10.53 | starseeker | grr - now yylineno is not found in libexpress |
| 17:24.15 | *** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@59.92.164.81) |
| 19:13.28 | ``Erik_ | O.O http://www.edibleapple.com/ifart-developer-makes-40000-in-2-days/ iphone owners seem to have... issues... :D |
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| 19:55.24 | piksi | brlcad: if it's ok with you i'll discuss brl in a meeting soon and ask if there's mutual interest in cooperation/development and then discuss more with you brl developers |
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| 22:08.04 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33977 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/ (Makefile.am TODO.BREP): additional BREP notes to go with the brep.txt notes as a general work breakdown scratch pad |
| 22:22.00 | brlcad | piksi: sounds great |
| 22:22.07 | brlcad | let me know if you need anything |
| 22:26.23 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33978 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/TODO.BREP: few more entities and modifiers |
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| 23:23.01 | starseeker | grumble |
| 23:23.22 | starseeker | older bisons don't seem to be generating yylineno, but the new one does |
| 23:27.38 | Ralith | brlcad: cool! What's needed to make that work with mged? |
| 23:31.29 | *** join/#brlcad piksi_ (n=piksi@pi-xi.net) |
| 23:32.20 | Ralith | just Tk 8.5 and some config file somewhere? |
| 23:35.54 | Ralith | looks like it needs to be hardcoded. |
| 23:36.29 | Ralith | and adds a new dependency of tile |
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