IRC log for #brlcad on 20090826

00:11.58``Erikssshhhhh
00:19.20starseekerNNooooooo.  Jeez SCO, DIE already
00:22.42starseekerwonders who told them dead horse beating was an Olympic sport...
00:29.28``Erikwasn't that yesterday? or was that this morning
00:49.00Yoshi47brlcad, how the rendering coming on that impeller
00:49.23Yoshi47or is it going to take all night
00:49.34``ErikI imagine he's not at his 'puter
00:49.44Yoshi47whys that
00:50.10yukonbobfacepalms
00:51.05starseekerhe's gone home
00:52.21Yoshi47oh
01:47.41CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35711 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_brep.cpp: OK, might actually be generating the right surface corner points now.
02:03.55CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r35712 10/jbrlcad/trunk/ (6 files in 4 dirs):
02:03.55CIA-28BRL-CAD: Ray, Hit, and Partition are now Externalizable.
02:03.55CIA-28BRL-CAD: Added a test for Hit.
02:37.17CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35713 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_brep.cpp: Start to rough out (and I stress the rough part) the remainder of the logic for nmg->brep
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03:41.48talciteahh finally figured out how to use Koji. We're going to get a ppc and SPARC build if all goes well! =D
04:52.11*** part/#brlcad fenn (n=fenn@cpe-72-177-121-73.austin.res.rr.com)
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07:37.37talcitewell, the builds on ppc, ppc64, i386, x86_64
07:38.41*** join/#brlcad Axman6_ (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
07:40.47talciteare working*
07:40.56talcite=S I should probably sleep now. I'm not making sense anymore
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12:03.31starseekerbrlcad: would volumetric representations be considered explicit primitives?
12:19.45Yoshi47is it always this quiet when im not talking...
12:22.16Axman6yes
12:34.03Yoshi47lol
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12:58.19CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03jdoliner * r35714 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/ (surfaceintersect.cpp surfaceintersect.h): Added function CurveCurveIntersect, which replaces the ON_Curve::IntersectCurve function since it isn't actually implemented.
13:07.27CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Jdoliner 07http://brlcad.org * r1607 10/wiki/User:Jdoliner:
13:07.29brlcadstarseeker: I've always thought of them as implicit/explicit hybrids
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13:09.27brlcadexplicit regular data but that implies some given volume -- the geometry itself is implicit but it's distinct enough that the literature generally considers it a separate case altogether
13:09.39brlcadYoshi47: it comes in waves
13:09.49Yoshi47ah
13:09.49CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35715 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/human.c: Various changes to reflect new verbose setting
13:10.03Yoshi47hows the rendering coming
13:10.21brlcadnon-stop chatter for days, then really quiet, then tons of non-stop commit messges, etc :)
13:10.40brlcadoh, I'm sure it's finished .. but I'm not at that machine for another hour or so
13:11.07brlcadi'm sure it's done, it should have finished after about an hour
13:12.36brlcadjdoliner: awesome :)
13:13.15brlcadexcept for the overlap problem..
13:14.14jdolineryeah
13:14.34jdolinerI'm not sure if I should spend time to do that now
13:14.38jdolineror come back to it a bit later
13:26.10``Erikhm, C or tcl, C or tcl
13:26.45Yoshi47C?
13:27.30``Erikmight have to write the algo in psuedocode before deciding, unless he can sucker brlcad into doing it "in a couple lines of tcl" :D
13:31.38Axman6Ada!
13:38.05``Erik"The GOTO is like a chainsaw. yes, some folks can actually make good things, and even make really nice carvings with a chainsaw. most just make a big fucking mess."
13:51.13mafmlolcode ftw
13:53.08CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35716 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_brep.cpp: More nmg->brep logic, still not functional...
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14:33.15Yoshi47Question: why do i have to reset my color scheme everytime i open mged? why does it save this preference? in the DB for the file your editing or globaly like /home/josh/.brlcad/config?
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15:10.18``Erik~/.mgedrc
15:11.14Yoshi47umm
15:11.23indianlarryunder GUI File->Create/Update .mgedrc
15:11.46brlcad``Erik: which algo?
15:11.51Yoshi47indianlarry, thanks
15:11.58indianlarryyou bet
15:12.00brlcadC ftw ;)
15:13.22``Erikwanna recreate the tree, with name mangling. when I see a region bit, I want to facetize into mangle;s/$/.bot/ and add that to the mangled region, with all mater and attr shtuff duped
15:14.46``Erikrecfacetize 's/$/_f/' all.g   -> all.g_r { tor.r_f { tor.r_f.bot } + cone.r_f { cone.r_f.bot } }
15:14.51``Erik'r sumfin
15:15.52``Erikmy current approach is destructive... facetize all and some external prep to kill/mv the bots in under the existing regions
15:16.56``Erik(and I already feel like I've thought too much, this is a yak shaving exercize to support something else)
15:17.02``Erik:D
15:17.26brlcadwhat's the _f and _r above the region level mean?
15:17.53``Erik_f to denote facetized
15:18.29``ErikI want to create a second toplevel tree that mirrors the original except all regions contain exactly one bot
15:18.47``Erikthe name mangling is arbitrary
15:19.09mafmhow's gsoc, did students pass?
15:19.48``ErikI think we need to wait for wrapup to say, mafm?
15:20.48mafmaren't evaluations finished yet?
15:21.07``Erikthey're all submitted now, but I think there's magic that has to happen on googles end
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15:53.01CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35717 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_brep.cpp: Start checking validity of components.
16:00.25brlcadstarseeker: jdoliner: did either of you figure out if there's a conversion to go from ON_Mesh to ON_Brep ?
16:01.27brlcadif there is, nmgs may translate nearly 1-1 with an ON_Mesh
16:06.53mafmoh, right
16:09.17Yoshi47umm whats the easiest way to make "608Z" in brlcad so i can groove that into the shield
16:29.03*** join/#brlcad FAMULUS (n=mark@32.139.175.39)
16:29.31FAMULUShello!
16:29.55Yoshi47hi
16:29.58FAMULUSI've produced this beautiful part in BRL CAD
16:30.14FAMULUSbut having difficult getting it made from STL
16:30.19FAMULUSoverlapping trianges
16:30.20FAMULUShttp://prometheusfusionperfection.com/2009/08/21/overlapping-triangles-in-stl/
16:30.40FAMULUSlooking for direction
16:30.41FAMULUShttp://prometheusfusionperfection.com/2009/08/23/new-stl-for-superconducting-magrid/
16:32.06FAMULUSeven at higher resolution is still has overlapping triangles
16:33.17Yoshi47sorry i don't have enough knowledge to help you
16:33.33louipcthat's cool. what does it do?
16:34.09brlcadhi FAMULUS
16:34.12FAMULUShi
16:34.14louipchmm bussard reactor
16:34.26FAMULUSlouipc: this will be the core of a nuclear fusion reactor
16:34.27brlcadYoshi47: the easiest way is probably an EBM
16:34.31brlcadextruded bitmap
16:34.33louipcOH JEEZ
16:34.42louipcwe have fusion technology now?
16:34.58FAMULUSlouipc: below breakeven yes
16:35.07louipcaw
16:35.12Yoshi47brlcad, thats what i figured, guess i got to learn that process.
16:35.34brlcadget out your favorite image editor, make a 1-bit image with 608Z in it to your liking, save as png, convert to bw with png-bw, create an ebm using that bw image
16:35.46brlcad'in' command will prompt you
16:35.53brlcadi believe there is an ebm tutorial on the wiki
16:36.48FAMULUSbrlcad: looking into it
16:36.59FAMULUSbrlcad: what's the deal with g-stl anyway
16:37.43Yoshi47brlcad, thanks
16:37.51brlcadother than it being an NP-hard problem? :)
16:38.10FAMULUSbrlcad: oh, it's like that
16:39.01louipciges conversion isn't any better eh?
16:39.47brlcadFAMULUS: what mike suggested was what I was thinking as well
16:40.00brlcadthe fact that they are overlapping is pretty surprising though
16:40.10brlcaddoes your model validate overlap-wise?
16:40.22brlcad(rtcheck/gqa)
16:40.35brlcadif it doesn't, it's a modeling error and you should fix that first
16:40.39FAMULUSbrlcad: seeing I don't know what that means exactly, probably not
16:40.57brlcadthere are tools/commands to check whether your model has overlaps
16:41.12brlcadto perform a valid export with g-stl, there should be no overlaps
16:41.20brlcad*before* the tessellation even begins
16:41.38FAMULUSbrlcad: I see, let me start here
16:41.43brlcadyou can get a quick idea by just running "rtcheck"
16:41.45brlcadin mged
16:41.49FAMULUSok
16:42.21brlcadthe better way is via the gqa command or g_qa command-line tool, but that'll require a little setup first
16:42.55brlcadif rtcheck reports no overlaps, try refining the grid (e.g., rtcheck -s2000)
16:43.02FAMULUS_dirbuild(chassis) failure
16:45.56FAMULUShe process has forked and you cannot use this CoreFoundation functionality safely. You MUST exec().
16:45.56FAMULUSBreak on __THE_PROCESS_HAS_FORKED_AND_YOU_CANNOT_USE_THIS_COREFOUNDATION_FUNCTIONALITY___YOU_MUST_EXEC__() to debug.
16:46.20FAMULUShmm, ive seen this before
16:46.23brlcadyeah, that's a known 10.5 issue
16:46.29brlcadfixed for most things, but not others
16:46.51FAMULUSI think to get around this I have to issue command from terminal
16:49.08brlcadyeah, that'll work
16:49.23brlcadrtcheck your.g someobject
16:49.35FAMULUShmm, not this time
16:49.37FAMULUSmged -c decawell.g rtcheck torus1
16:49.47FAMULUSsame error
16:49.54FAMULUSbummer
16:49.57brlcadright, don't run mged
16:50.12brlcadit's one of the other 399 commands
16:50.21brlcadrtcheck decawell.g torus1
16:50.36brlcadif torus1 is a primitive, there will be no overlaps
16:50.45brlcadoverlaps have to do with defined region objects
16:50.59FAMULUSright, but thats a sanity check
16:51.09FAMULUSjust trying to get the command to work
16:51.36FAMULUSI'm on BRL-CAD Release 7.12.2
16:51.46brlcadthat's probably why you get the FORKED error
16:52.09FAMULUSok, I'll upgrade to 7.12.6
16:52.13brlcad"probably" because I don't recall specifically testing rtcheck, but a bunch were quelled
16:52.23brlcadyou'll want 7.14.8
16:52.29FAMULUSoh
16:52.31FAMULUSthanks
16:52.57FAMULUSgood to see BRL under active development
16:53.11brlcador better, latest svn and just compile it ;)
16:53.19brlcadyou're on a mac, so you have everything you need
16:53.34brlcad~cadsvn
16:53.35ibotTo obtain BRL-CAD from Subversion: svn checkout https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk brlcad
16:53.58FAMULUSbrlcad: ok, I'll try.
16:54.15brlcadcd brlcad && sh autogen.sh && ./configure --enable-all --enable-optimized --prefix=/usr/brlcad/dev-7.14.9 && make && sudo make install
16:54.21brlcadthat should do it
16:54.27FAMULUSbrlcad: trying....
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16:55.13brlcadYoshi47: you find the ebm overview?
16:55.27Yoshi47havebn't had time users nagging
16:55.40brlcadokay, it's here: http://brlcad.org/wiki/EBM
16:55.45Yoshi47ok thanks
16:56.22brlcadyou'll want something bigger than 350x35 so there are minimized jaggies
17:00.17FAMULUSbrlcad: what's a good example of overlap in the context of BRL CAD
17:00.42brlcadwhat do you mean?
17:01.14brlcadoverlap means you've defined two objects such that they're occupying the same space
17:01.54FAMULUSbrlcad: hmm, but that's ok when they are u together
17:02.13brlcadtwo hammers criss-crossed would be an overlap on the middle region where they cross
17:02.38FAMULUSbut if you combined the 2 hammers into 1 comb object you would be ok
17:02.50brlcadand that would be because I defined the hammer, as an example, as having two regions -- one for the steel head and one region for the wooden handle
17:03.12brlcadcreating a region is the way that you denote an object physically occupies space
17:03.33brlcadthe difference between the shape of a hammer handle and an actual wooden hammer handle
17:03.51FAMULUSright
17:03.56brlcadand NO you would not be okay if you combined the 2 hammers into 1 comb object
17:04.03brlcadthat's exactly the problem
17:04.07FAMULUSah
17:04.08FAMULUScomb chassis u solid.c - negative_form.c
17:04.20FAMULUSI'm using only comb
17:04.32brlcadnow if you combined the shape of the two handles together and unioned them together *before* making a region .. you'd be okay
17:05.09brlcadhave you created any "regions"
17:05.21FAMULUSbrlcad: funny I stopped using regions because that was breaking STL export
17:05.43FAMULUShttp://prometheusfusionperfection.com/2009/05/30/brl-cad-stl-progress/
17:05.51brlcada region is one "object" and the stl file format only supports one object
17:05.59brlcadso if you have multiple regions, you have multiple stl files or a problem
17:06.11FAMULUSok
17:06.30brlcadyou could combine it all together and make that combined thing be a region
17:06.46FAMULUSok
17:08.54FAMULUSchecking docs
17:14.58``Erik*burp*
17:24.20FAMULUSbrlcad: we'll I just successfully exported to STL with a region as the last object standing
17:33.01FAMULUSbrlcad: so you can make a region out of a compination, and make a combination out of a region?
17:49.36``Erikyes
17:49.50``Erika region is actually just a combination with a flag set
17:50.47``Erikabove the region level, things like "assembly" make it harder to shoot yourself in the foot, though
17:52.51FAMULUS``Erik: is there a difference between a region made up of combinations, and a region made up of regions
17:54.34``Erikit... depends, and having a region somewhere  inside of a region kinda breaks the notion... (a region refers to a single physical homogenous material thing, something that exists irl)
17:55.49``Erikmost things will walk down the tree and once they see the region bit, assume everything below is just 'the shape', so region information below the first is ignored
17:55.50``Erik(I think)
18:02.51starseekerbrlcad: I don't see any ON_Mesh to ON_Brep tools
18:03.08starseekerwould have been surprised given Rhino is a nurbs modeler :-)
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18:16.08brlcadstarseeker: could be something as simple as a copy constructor
18:16.37brlcadi'd actually be surprised if they don't support it within rhino
18:16.49brlcadeasily one of the things they could have removed though
18:19.54starseekerfeels like he is getting close
18:20.04starseekerfamous last words, of course...
18:21.20Yoshi47who wants a bearing with a shield? although i can't figure out why my numbers don't render nicely...
18:23.24``Erikhm, my new bsd machine swings in just shy of 8k vgr's
18:24.18``ErikI'm sure my crusty old mac still trounces that :/ *waits*
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18:28.02``Erikoh yeah, the bsd machine gets 7946, the mac gets 22733
18:28.26``Eriktoo bad the mach shandler crud makes the unix tools soooo ssssllllooooowwwwww, can compile way faster on the bsd box
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18:35.36Yoshi47http://ej.nijenhuis.pixi.me/v/CAD/bearing_g.html here the finished bearing for now, unless i need to make changes, like the 608Z
18:49.04CIA-28BRL-CAD: 0387.206.145.226 07http://brlcad.org * r1608 10/wiki/User:526_buy_viagra: /* */
18:49.39brlcadFAMULUS: what erik said is spot on
18:49.52brlcada region in a region is a modeling error unless it's a region subtracted from a region
18:50.19brlcadabove the region level, and you have what we call "groups" and others call assemblies
18:50.35brlcadat the region level, that's effectively a 'part'
18:50.43CIA-28BRL-CAD: 0387.206.145.226 07http://brlcad.org * r1609 10/wiki/User:526_buy_viagra: /* */
18:50.45brlcadbelow the region level is just a shape
18:51.42CIA-28BRL-CAD: 0387.206.145.226 07http://brlcad.org * r1610 10/wiki/User:526_buy_viagra: /* */
18:52.33CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/block: blocked [[User:87.206.145.226]] with an expiry time of infinite (account creation disabled): Spamming links to external sites
18:56.06CIA-28BRL-CAD: 0383.24.64.144 07http://brlcad.org * r1611 10/wiki/User:526_buy_viagra: fix
19:02.38FAMULUSbrlcad: so far it seems to be working. maybe my problem was originally I had regions in regions
19:04.37CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35718 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_brep.cpp: Checkpoint nmg_brep.cpp work.
19:40.16``Eriklaptop weighs in at 6097 vgr's
19:48.04CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35719 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/bot/bot.c: fix type in casting
19:53.53Ralith``Erik: machs handler?
19:58.07brlcadcool, nice to hear things work right when you feed it valid geometry
19:58.45brlcad``Erik: what is that?
19:58.56brlcadslightly faster than this old MBP
19:59.22brlcadhere's yoshi's impeller render.. amazing.  http://brlcad.org/tmp/impeller.png
20:01.44``Erikralith: every system call on osX goes through the mach event handler, shandler()
20:02.06Ralithseems odd
20:02.23Ralithmight make it really easy to implement a geordi though
20:02.27Ralithbrlcad: ooh, nice!
20:02.36brlcadlaforge?
20:02.46Ralithbrlcad: geordi of ##c++
20:03.24RalithC++ compiler IRC bot
20:03.24``Erikwow, look at all that aliasing O.o *duck*
20:03.24CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35720 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (19 files in 19 dirs): update info for "make depends"
20:03.26louipcsweet render
20:03.33brlcadthat was H15 J3 .. but you have to downsample to get rid of all aliasing properly
20:03.56Ralithit has to intercept all system calls from the compiler and executable to be able to function safely
20:04.13Ralithbrlcad: might be a bit easy to actually tell what's going on if it wasn't glass though >_>
20:04.18``Erikhuh, the blades on the other side of it look like they have some pretty heavy aliasing vs the background
20:04.26``Erik*shrug*
20:04.57brlcadyeah, edge pixels are accented because they don't blend the background like interior ones
20:05.25brlcadprobably should, dunno where that bit of code is
20:06.10Ralithhow long has yoshi been studying mged?
20:06.11``Erikooh, I bet it's "miss" short-circuiting instead of passing back the background color
20:06.57``Erikso a black half or arb8 would get good blending
20:07.24brlcadRalith: that was his third day iirc
20:07.40Raliththat's pretty impressive
20:07.52brlcaddid one model in three days, that model in a couple hours, redid the model that took him three days in an hour after he accidentally deleted it :)
20:07.56Ralithshall keep this handy to wave at people who complain about accessibility
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20:13.08brlcadYoshi47: http://brlcad.org/tmp/impeller.png
20:13.20brlcadi'll see if i can get a render later in metal :)
20:13.26brlcadwhich reminds me..
20:16.09CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35721 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: how about adding a shiny metal shader so one doesn't have to make up the values every time.
20:16.23RalithYoshi47: if you feel like it, I'd be pretty interested to read a walkthrough of how you modeled that.
20:16.43Ralithobserves that a variety of modeling walkthroughs might be a good way to introduce new users to mged
20:16.58louipcit doesn't look so nice in mged
20:17.04louipcit's just a mess-o-lines
20:17.57louipcit'd be great to get a wireframe of the actual part edges
20:18.05louipcRalith: yeah for sure
20:20.17brlcadlouipc: yeah, were talking about that yesterday
20:20.31brlcadthe problem is that there aren't "actual part edges" when you model with implicits and CSG
20:21.42brlcadas we become a fully hybrid representation system, we'll be able to derive/evaluate those edges .. that requires the NURBS work being complete (which is probably about 50% now after two years)
20:23.20``Eriklouipc: facetize :D
20:23.55``Erikcribbing povrays huge honkin' library of .inc files might be useful for the 'shiney metal shader' notion
20:26.35CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35722 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_brep.cpp: well, at least that's a different nmg->brep invalidity error...
20:26.56louipchmm true
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21:00.12CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35723 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/human.c:
21:00.12CIA-28BRL-CAD: Made the make-army command generate an army with variance in height.
21:00.12CIA-28BRL-CAD: Heights from 56 inches to 66 inches currently. Automatic with the -N# command.
22:06.29*** join/#brlcad talcite (n=Matthew@206-223-179-178.beanfield.net)
22:07.10CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35724 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/human.c: More tweaks to random army stuff.
22:07.46*** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@c-24-11-185-57.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
22:38.35*** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-58.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
23:04.20*** join/#brlcad FAMULUS (n=mark@32.139.175.39)
23:34.21*** join/#brlcad talcite (n=Matthew@206-223-179-178.beanfield.net)

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