| 01:31.59 | ``Erik | huh, gamekit got to 80% before failing |
| 03:52.58 | *** join/#brlcad louipc (~louipc@archlinux/trusteduser/louipc) |
| 04:14.28 | *** join/#brlcad _yukonbob (~svs@S010600235a187d92.ok.shawcable.net) |
| 07:12.46 | *** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (~rossberg@BZ.BZFLAG.BZ) |
| 08:56.03 | *** join/#brlcad mafm_ (~mafm@83.37.7.245) |
| 09:46.32 | *** join/#brlcad merzo (~merzo@smartbussiness.mobicom.net.ua) |
| 12:06.30 | starseeker | ``Erik: what was the failure? |
| 12:08.17 | starseeker | (if nothing else, gamekit is interesting for its implementation of a reader for .blend files |
| 12:37.28 | d-lo | Mernin |
| 13:09.31 | *** join/#brlcad Zaebos (~irc@pd95b7f5e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 13:20.02 | ``Erik | missing config.h in both the unix and xcode variants |
| 13:20.50 | ``Erik | thought ogre had a plugin to export their .mesh/.skeleton models from blender (among others) |
| 13:30.43 | CIA-42 | BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r40168 10/rt^3/trunk/src/libPkgCpp/: Adding libpkgcpp.so to svn:include |
| 13:31.07 | d-lo | doh! Not quite awake on that one. |
| 13:35.41 | d-lo | question for *nix guys: is /etc/environment universal among all shells? e.g. if I set a PATH var there, it will show up in all shells (bash, csh, tch, etc) ? |
| 13:35.53 | starseeker | Blender has a plugin to export OGRE meshes, but that's GPL |
| 13:37.29 | ``Erik | um, /usr/bin/env <progIwant> |
| 13:37.43 | ``Erik | #!/usr/bin/env python for example |
| 13:38.14 | ``Erik | oh, wait, misunderstood |
| 13:38.38 | ``Erik | no, /etc/environment doesn't soudn familiar and isn't on mac or fbsd |
| 13:38.45 | starseeker | I'd be surprised if all the shells agreed on something like that |
| 13:39.22 | ``Erik | csh and sh have totally different notions on how to even set variables, so I don't think there's any way tto be universal |
| 13:40.07 | ``Erik | most sh's are one or the other, and most of the known universe uses sh (I had never even heard of anyone actually using csh/tcsh until I came here) |
| 13:40.24 | starseeker | ``Erik: the blend "format" is a scary beast, and I had considered trying to talk the Blender guys into LGPLing the parser aspects of their code until I found out more of the details of how they came to be GPL |
| 13:40.42 | ``Erik | afaik, the blend format is a swizzled memory image, not a format :D |
| 13:40.50 | starseeker | bingo |
| 13:41.13 | starseeker | fortunately, it sounds like the gamekit folk have done a lot of the hard work of figuring out how to read that beast |
| 13:41.33 | ``Erik | until blender changes again? or do they link to blender libs? |
| 13:41.45 | starseeker | probably until blender changes again |
| 13:42.03 | starseeker | but that's as good as it could get for someone like us, who won't be linking to the libs anytime soon |
| 13:42.08 | ``Erik | what's the issue with a gpl'd exporter for blender? |
| 13:42.33 | starseeker | hmm? there isn't an issue with Blender - I'm thinking about code we could use to base a blend-g convertor on |
| 13:42.48 | ``Erik | if you're making a self contained thing like a game, you crank the handle when preparing the resources and ship the results... |
| 13:42.51 | ``Erik | hrmmm |
| 13:43.27 | ``Erik | a python asc exporter/importer for blender would probably be the least painful |
| 13:43.52 | starseeker | from their description, the gamekit guys have more or less done an independent reader for the actual .blend files |
| 13:44.14 | starseeker | ``Erik: yeah, that's one option |
| 13:44.39 | starseeker | but you need Blender to pull it off, which kinda defeats the point of a convertor |
| 13:44.54 | ``Erik | proe-g needs the proe-libs to pull it off |
| 13:45.06 | ``Erik | q requires it's libs, too |
| 13:45.24 | starseeker | right, because no one has ever reverse engineered the proe format and told the world about it |
| 13:46.03 | starseeker | from what brlcad has said in the past, that would be a murderously difficult task |
| 13:46.06 | ``Erik | because it's almost as scary and change prone as blenders :D *duck* |
| 13:46.11 | starseeker | right |
| 13:46.47 | starseeker | they have no particular incentive to make it easy for anyone else to read their files |
| 13:47.21 | starseeker | unfortunately, they also have the same lack of incentive to export ALL their information (parametrics, metadata, etc) in something like STEP |
| 13:47.22 | ``Erik | pro/e has disencentive, blender's opinion is probably "just install blender and write a python plugin" |
| 13:47.29 | starseeker | right |
| 13:47.35 | ``Erik | disincentive |
| 13:48.45 | starseeker | we'll never have the resources to do anything about reverse-engineering binary cad formats, but if open source cad does start to take off we might see other projects start to try and tackle it |
| 13:49.12 | ``Erik | as with most advancements, I think we'll see it happen in games, first |
| 13:49.23 | ``Erik | e.g. gamekit :D *duck* |
| 13:49.32 | starseeker | um, doubt it - CAD models are overkill for proe and friends |
| 13:49.34 | starseeker | heh |
| 13:49.50 | ``Erik | well, for .blend at least... pro/e is very niche |
| 13:49.57 | starseeker | nods |
| 13:50.19 | ``Erik | if you have pro/e or uni or whatever files you care about, then you probably have the software and can click 'export' |
| 13:50.40 | starseeker | nowadays that's true |
| 13:50.59 | starseeker | 'cept maybe in countries where a pro/e license is half a year's wages |
| 13:51.07 | d-lo | and if you dont have the software, there's always bittorrents :P |
| 13:51.12 | ``Erik | the bearded hacker chugging mountain dew in the campus computer lab probably doesn't have access to any of those, and doesn't care |
| 13:51.19 | starseeker | d-lo: +1 cynical |
| 13:51.25 | d-lo | :D |
| 13:51.26 | ``Erik | she'd be more interested in writing a new cad |
| 13:51.42 | ``Erik | (yes. bearded female hackers.) |
| 13:51.54 | d-lo | I just threw up a little |
| 13:52.00 | ``Erik | your welcome :D |
| 13:52.20 | starseeker | ah, but if BRL-CAD has solved the CAD part of the equation, the lack of Pro/E import will be a glaring weakness |
| 13:52.54 | starseeker | although I suppose SoidWorks might actually be of more immediate interest - what is the most common online CAD format, anyway? |
| 13:54.17 | ``Erik | obj *cough* |
| 13:54.25 | starseeker | heh |
| 13:54.36 | starseeker | I suppose these guys may have some idea: http://www.3dcontentcentral.com/default.aspx |
| 13:54.48 | ``Erik | .max might be big, too |
| 13:55.11 | starseeker | pity it's almost certain none of those models are licensed so we can use 'em... |
| 13:55.23 | starseeker | .max isn't a cad format per-say though, is it? |
| 13:55.25 | ``Erik | I have a parser for the old 3ds format, but it works with the dos version, not the 'new' version when they went to winderz |
| 13:55.39 | ``Erik | it's visually oriented, just like obj |
| 13:56.17 | ``Erik | I think I showed ya my importer, the half-C/half-scheme thing? |
| 13:56.38 | starseeker | yeah, scary :-) |
| 13:57.01 | ``Erik | what? I used C to do the things C is really good at and scheme to do the things scheme is really good at :D |
| 13:57.05 | ``Erik | <-- thought it was keen |
| 13:57.39 | starseeker | oh, quite keen - but still scary :-) |
| 13:57.51 | brlcad | starseeker: got a reply back from that 2D cad dev -- he's going to remove his gpl dep and relicense as lgpl, but doesn't have much time to help integrate |
| 13:57.57 | starseeker | arrgh - yeah, thought so: You may not i) distribute Data as part of any service or ii) copy or post any Data on any Internet site or iii) broadcast Data in any media or iv) use the Data in a manner that is competitive with this 3D ContentCentral service. |
| 13:58.04 | starseeker | brlcad: sweeet! |
| 13:58.05 | *** join/#brlcad Yoshi47 (~jan@64.235.102.210) |
| 13:58.14 | starseeker | brlcad: nice work! |
| 13:58.24 | starseeker | what was that link again? |
| 13:59.12 | ``Erik | hm, 'bitrock installbuilder' |
| 13:59.47 | ``Erik | whoa, clanlib is still alive |
| 14:00.49 | starseeker | brlcad: nevermind, found it |
| 14:02.59 | brlcad | ``Erik: alive and well .. their guys work on it pretty consistently |
| 14:03.10 | brlcad | hearts clanlib |
| 14:03.19 | starseeker | oh yeah - Dime is GPL, from Coin3d |
| 14:05.42 | d-lo | looks @ clanlib...... purty neat! |
| 14:07.07 | starseeker | brlcad: how does his constraint solver tie in with our libpc stuff? |
| 14:08.24 | brlcad | I'd treat it as an implementation detail |
| 14:08.35 | brlcad | no telling how much of his solver is 2D specific |
| 14:08.50 | starseeker | nods |
| 14:10.14 | starseeker | fair enough - at some point I need to study both our libpc stuff and varkon's approach to the problem - it's not a topic I really feel comfortable with |
| 14:11.16 | starseeker | hah, coo |
| 14:11.17 | starseeker | l |
| 14:11.25 | starseeker | brlcad: check this out: http://code.google.com/p/osifont/ |
| 14:11.44 | starseeker | unfortunately it's currently GPL... |
| 14:13.25 | ``Erik | a long time ago, a friend and I set out to make a worms2 clone for linux using clanlib, couldn't get the performance up to snuff on our 120 and 166 mhz machines :/ probably naivete in composition techniques |
| 14:14.44 | brlcad | starseeker: constraint solving is a tricky bit -- kind of like implementing get_closest_point() or rt_poly_roots() |
| 14:15.02 | brlcad | but similarly, there are some basic well-known methods that will do the job "good enough" |
| 14:15.26 | starseeker | nods |
| 14:52.04 | brlcad | https://www.ohloh.net/languages/compare?measure=projects&percent=true&l0=autoconf&l1=automake&l2=cmake&l3=-1&l4=make&l5=-1&commit=Update |
| 14:52.59 | ``Erik | wonders what systems are missing O.o |
| 14:53.06 | ``Erik | wonders who'll join his lunch posse |
| 14:54.27 | brlcad | interesting that autotools have been on the rise for the past 6 months |
| 14:57.25 | d-lo | well, they're all on the rise :) |
| 14:58.28 | brlcad | yeah, but cmake's still pretty linear |
| 15:02.05 | brlcad | my guess is that there are other unlisted build systems starting to bottom out, and the increase is just a usual influx of new projects getting added |
| 15:02.14 | brlcad | systems like imake and .. cake |
| 15:02.42 | brlcad | ant would have been an interesting comparison, but I guess it gets lost in the xml aggregate |
| 16:36.16 | d-lo | bah, if I have a bunch of files that have ;1 appended to the end of the file names, how can I bulk get rid of them? |
| 16:37.50 | d-lo | I have tried: find ./ -name "*;1" | sed 's/\;1//g' |
| 16:38.07 | d-lo | but that only SHOWED the changes and didn't apply them to the file names. |
| 16:38.24 | d-lo | I cannot see in the sed man page what switch I use to apply the changes :/ |
| 16:53.43 | brlcad | you need a lil more scripting foo magic |
| 16:54.32 | d-lo | I got it to work by piping it thru rename instead of sed. |
| 16:54.40 | brlcad | something like: for i in `find . -name "*;1"` ; do cp $i `echo $i | sed 's/\;1//g'` ; done |
| 16:55.15 | d-lo | forgot that ubuntu ships with rename |
| 16:55.23 | brlcad | yeah, linuxy |
| 16:55.27 | brlcad | common pattern at least |
| 16:55.38 | brlcad | goes to the hardware store to play |
| 16:55.45 | d-lo | whatcha buyin? |
| 17:01.19 | ``Erik | sed only alters the text, it has no ability to 'apply' anything |
| 17:28.04 | kanzure | brlcad: do you know about vehicleforge.mil? |
| 17:28.30 | kanzure | and if not, i'd like you to be involved in a proposal i'm crafting |
| 17:35.15 | ``Erik | 403 O.o |
| 17:47.46 | CIA-42 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r40169 10/isst/trunk/sdl/event.c: scale float/sink to scene size |
| 18:01.19 | kanzure | it doesn't exist yet |
| 18:01.23 | kanzure | https://www.fbo.gov/utils/view?id=11a895334e76707406e3b78c918357cd |
| 18:01.34 | kanzure | this is pretty much what my 'skdb' project is (apt-get for hardware, and such) |
| 18:37.52 | *** join/#brlcad _psilva (~psilva@static-96-255-52-7.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
| 20:03.43 | starseeker | turns mildly red as he sees how configure.ac did its summary printout - I think perhaps I overengineered the CMake one a bit |
| 20:04.11 | starseeker | it should be robust though... |
| 20:39.33 | *** join/#brlcad R0b0t1 (~Enigma@unaffiliated/r0b0t1) |
| 22:32.56 | starseeker | ``Erik: yeah, it was my CFLAGS line in the quick, hacky src/other/libterm CMakeLists.txt that did it |
| 22:35.03 | starseeker | getting some errors during compile... |
| 22:35.06 | starseeker | bah |
| 22:47.38 | CIA-42 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r40170 10/brlcad/branches/cmake/src/other/libtermlib/CMakeLists.txt: Try this approach to the compile flags for libterm - Xcode doesn't like the old way. |
| 22:48.37 | starseeker | hmm - ``Erik, looks like I need more dependency info for Xcode - the first pass has failures to build, but the second succeeds |
| 22:56.26 | starseeker | ah, I might have known - conf/COUNT and conf/DATE |
| 23:06.55 | CIA-42 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r40171 10/brlcad/branches/cmake/CMakeLists.txt: Xcode exposed the need for explicit dependency specifications for include/conf/COUNT and include/conf/DATE - Xcode build now succeeds. |
| 23:09.37 | kanzure | brlcad: are you around? |
| 23:13.42 | ``Erik | thinks he'll have to get something like http://craftside.typepad.com/craftside/images/2008/09/17/devil_horn_headband_2.jpg so'z starseeker knows when he's playing devils advocate :D |
| 23:53.06 | starseeker | O.o |
| 23:53.36 | starseeker | if you wear that I'm gonna start calling you a "manager in training :-P" |
| 23:54.20 | starseeker | was worth it though - Xcode building "for free" is pretty darn cool |
| 23:57.14 | ``Erik | don't worry, I probably won't start dressing like http://travis.kroh.net/archives/000549.jpg |
| 23:57.17 | ``Erik | probably |
| 23:57.59 | ``Erik | generated a vcproj to throw over on the winderz machine yet? |
| 23:58.18 | starseeker | is that link safe for work? |
| 23:58.23 | starseeker | no, not yet |
| 23:58.35 | starseeker | trying to cook up some minimal C code for time deltas |
| 23:58.37 | ``Erik | yeah, it's a pic from an open source convention |
| 23:58.53 | ``Erik | um, gettimeofday, cook the millisecs, then expand it out using ctime |
| 23:59.12 | ``Erik | though gettimeofday may not be on winderz |
| 23:59.22 | starseeker | that's probably finer than we need anyhow |
| 23:59.42 | ``Erik | true |
| 23:59.44 | starseeker | as far as configure and build timing goes, 1sec ~= 0 |
| 23:59.45 | ``Erik | time(3) ? |
| 23:59.55 | starseeker | yeah, that's what I'm targeting |
| 23:59.58 | ``Erik | it's c99 |
