| 01:20.31 | maths22 | ``Erik: why does Notify sometimes have lots of ============================== signs |
| 01:30.11 | ``Erik | maths22: something in the mail confuses the parser and it doesn't get the file names right... eventually, I'll fix it |
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| 03:10.49 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD Wiki:Vannesakren * 0 /wiki/User:Vannesakren: |
| 03:13.58 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:brlcad * 54819 (brlcad/trunk/src/burst/grid.c brlcad/trunk/src/conv/fast4-g.c and 29 others): fix the remainder of vmath calls that were missing semicolons. wow, few more than expected. |
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| 08:50.41 | Ashish101 | Is SeAN HERE ?? |
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| 12:49.36 | brlcad | starseeker: yeah, I think we should for at least one more since this wasn't a planned minor bump |
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| 13:22.33 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:brlcad * 54820 brlcad/trunk/src/liboptical/sh_cloud.c: revert 54485 since the added precision introduces lots of benchmark result off-by-many changes. the low precision .707 value has been there since Version 2 of RT (commit 395 in Aug 1985). a case for updating the benchmarks could be made, but the sensitivity possibly introduced by the double-precision value is concerning (will single-precision fastf_t |
| 13:22.35 | Notify | give same values?) |
| 13:27.06 | *** join/#brlcad milamber (~devlin@d118-75-244-176.try.wideopenwest.com) |
| 13:36.02 | starseeker | brlcad: can we yank jove now? (deprecated 7.14) |
| 13:37.04 | starseeker | oh, crud - opennurbs Makefile.am logic wasn't updated |
| 13:37.09 | starseeker | wades in... |
| 13:39.42 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:brlcad * 54821 brlcad/trunk/include/vmath.h: convert all of the vmath block macros to do {} while (0) form so that a semicolon becomes required. only a really stupid compiler would actually output an always-false branch test, so it should have no impact on performance. moreover, testing (mac, linux, gcc, clang) showed no impact. |
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| 13:50.36 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:brlcad * 54822 brlcad/trunk/include/vmath.h: document the reason for the do while construct |
| 13:51.42 | brlcad | starseeker: yep |
| 13:52.14 | starseeker | you want to nuke it, or shall I do the honors? |
| 13:52.15 | brlcad | anything 7.16- is easily fair game |
| 13:52.23 | brlcad | go for it |
| 13:52.45 | brlcad | plays taps |
| 13:53.11 | starseeker | what? no celebrating for lines of code removed? :-P |
| 13:53.42 | brlcad | not for src/other lines |
| 13:53.51 | starseeker | aw |
| 13:53.59 | starseeker | well, it didn't start in src/other |
| 13:54.09 | brlcad | might be polite to ship a dotemacs file with jove bindings |
| 13:54.46 | starseeker | yeah, was planning to move that to misc |
| 13:55.02 | starseeker | just scrubbed down the file we did have in there to get it loading with a modern emacs |
| 13:57.02 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 54823 (brlcad/trunk/configure.ac brlcad/trunk/src/other/openNURBS/Makefile.am brlcad/trunk/src/other/tcl/unix/Makefile.in): More autotools fixes |
| 14:00.39 | brlcad | cool |
| 14:13.19 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 54824 (brlcad/trunk/misc/CMakeLists.txt brlcad/trunk/misc/Makefile.am): Add a stripped down version of the jove.emacs Emacs configuration file intended to help Emacs emulate the jove editing experience ('stripped down' means removed things in the original file that didn't load in modern Emacs and/or code that didn't seem especially relevant to jove emulation.) Add to misc, in preparation for |
| 14:13.22 | Notify | removal of src/other/jove. This needs to be tested by experienced jove users, but it is a starting point. |
| 14:16.48 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:brlcad * 54825 brlcad/trunk/regress/moss.sh: since -n depends on the shell mode and echo impl, don't rely on it. looks bad in the output. just write a label. |
| 14:17.20 | brlcad | starseeker: you working on any other CHANGES obsoletions? |
| 14:25.00 | ``Erik | kill! kill! kill! |
| 14:36.58 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:r_weiss * 54826 brlcad/trunk/src/conv/vdeck/vextern.h: Another data type change from "long" to "off_t" to allow the function "bu_fseek" to work on Windows 64bit. |
| 14:40.07 | starseeker | brlcad: not right now |
| 14:40.20 | starseeker | after I yank jove I've got to try to get the autotools build going :-( |
| 14:44.17 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 54827 (brlcad/trunk/CHANGES brlcad/trunk/CMakeLists.txt and 7 others): Remove the long-deprecated jove editor in src/other. |
| 14:46.52 | brlcad | starseeker: okie dokie |
| 14:47.07 | starseeker | unless you want to take on autotools :-P |
| 14:47.13 | starseeker | then I'll be glad to yank more stuff |
| 14:47.14 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 54828 brlcad/trunk/src/other/openNURBS/Makefile.am: More files changed in openNURBS |
| 14:59.59 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:brlcad * 54829 brlcad/trunk/src/liboptical/sh_cloud.c: go for a compromise. use M_SQRT1_2, but truncate it to 0.707 with an explanation for why this matters. done as a static const so we only compute the truncation once, even though the performance impact is probably insignificant. |
| 15:03.56 | maths22 | exit |
| 15:46.06 | brlcad | starseeker: i'll get to it if you don't but I'm working on the regression failures at the moment |
| 15:47.34 | starseeker | nods |
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| 15:50.56 | *** join/#brlcad FLOSSrookie (~brian@107-200-34-111.lightspeed.tulsok.sbcglobal.net) |
| 15:51.38 | FLOSSrookie | Has anyone else noticed conflicts with the RPM download of this application? |
| 15:51.45 | FLOSSrookie | For Fedora. |
| 15:57.07 | starseeker | what conflicts?\ |
| 15:57.17 | starseeker | grr - what conflicts? |
| 15:58.00 | starseeker | can't type today |
| 15:58.16 | FLOSSrookie | Let me rerun it. |
| 16:00.29 | FLOSSrookie | starseeker: http://fpaste.org/vJwd/ |
| 16:02.35 | FLOSSrookie | See what I mean. |
| 16:03.09 | starseeker | interesting. It's treating the directories as conflicts |
| 16:03.23 | starseeker | where did the RPM come from? Is this the one on the sourceforge site? |
| 16:03.32 | FLOSSrookie | starseeker: yes. |
| 16:08.19 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:brlcad * 54830 brlcad/trunk/src/liboptical/sh_cloud.c: move the NUMSINES define closer to the use since it's localized to this one function, and document what it means |
| 16:09.00 | FLOSSrookie | Uhh....what? |
| 16:09.12 | starseeker | hmm? that's a commit message |
| 16:09.31 | FLOSSrookie | starseeker: Oh, at first I thought I was being given instructions. |
| 16:09.42 | starseeker | might be this bug: http://www.cmake.org/Bug/bug_relationship_graph.php?bug_id=13854 |
| 16:10.39 | starseeker | http://www.cmake.org/Bug/bug_relationship_graph.php?bug_id=0013609 rather |
| 16:11.04 | *** join/#brlcad jordisayol (~jordisayo@unaffiliated/jordisayol) |
| 16:11.23 | FLOSSrookie | So, this isn't brl-cad problem? Rather cmake? |
| 16:11.30 | starseeker | that would be my guess |
| 16:11.48 | FLOSSrookie | Any fixes? |
| 16:12.21 | FLOSSrookie | Any workarounds? |
| 16:12.40 | jordisayol | is there a date for the next release? |
| 16:13.07 | FLOSSrookie | Of which, brl-cad or cmake? |
| 16:13.23 | starseeker | FLOSSrookie: can you build from sources? |
| 16:13.39 | starseeker | or otherwise do a non-RPM based install? |
| 16:14.25 | FLOSSrookie | starseeker: I would need someone to guide me through. If I get that then yes I could install from source. Or how would you recommend I do a non-rpm based install? |
| 16:14.40 | FLOSSrookie | I cannot use debs, right? |
| 16:15.19 | starseeker | yeah - looks like we don't have tgz binary packages posted for 7.22.0 |
| 16:15.56 | brlcad | that looks like a really easy cpack fix |
| 16:16.13 | FLOSSrookie | starseeker: What about here: http://sourceforge.net/projects/brlcad/files/BRL-CAD%20Source/7.22.0/ |
| 16:16.21 | starseeker | yeah, that's the source code |
| 16:16.27 | starseeker | you want that to build |
| 16:16.40 | FLOSSrookie | I'll take whatever is easiest. |
| 16:16.48 | FLOSSrookie | Source if I must. |
| 16:17.06 | brlcad | it builds *really* easily 99% of the time |
| 16:17.25 | starseeker | brlcad: yeah, a patch for CPack may be in order |
| 16:17.27 | FLOSSrookie | brlcad: Why is it that when people say that I end up in the one percent? |
| 16:17.33 | brlcad | we provide nearly everything you need, just need to make sure you have a compiler (gcc/g++) and perhaps x11 development libraries |
| 16:17.48 | starseeker | brlcad: probably why the umask thing was causing such a problem, come to think of it |
| 16:17.50 | brlcad | FLOSSrookie: perhaps your name is why? :) |
| 16:18.04 | starseeker | FLOSSrookie: courage |
| 16:18.16 | starseeker | Step 1 - install CMake |
| 16:18.53 | FLOSSrookie | starseeker: Already installed. |
| 16:19.02 | starseeker | OK. Do you have gcc? |
| 16:19.17 | FLOSSrookie | starseeker: Help me check. What is the command to find? |
| 16:19.21 | starseeker | which gcc |
| 16:19.33 | FLOSSrookie | /usr/lib64/ccache/gcc |
| 16:19.41 | starseeker | ok |
| 16:20.12 | starseeker | There are some development packages you'll want - what operating system are you on? |
| 16:20.19 | FLOSSrookie | starseeker: Fedora 18 |
| 16:21.45 | starseeker | ok - install the following dev packages: libXext-devel libXi-devel freetype-devel fontconfig-devel |
| 16:21.52 | starseeker | and any dependencies they pull in |
| 16:22.53 | FLOSSrookie | starseeker: done. |
| 16:23.13 | jordisayol | FLOSSrookie: did you try to compile your own RPM packages with |
| 16:23.13 | jordisayol | $ sh/make_rpm.sh |
| 16:23.33 | FLOSSrookie | jordisayol: Uh...no. I did not know that little app even existed. |
| 16:23.33 | starseeker | jordisayol: he hasn't built yet |
| 16:24.21 | jordisayol | FLOSSrookie: it will check for neeeded packages first |
| 16:26.02 | FLOSSrookie | starseeker: Waite. Where are we going here? I am being pulled in two directions. |
| 16:26.08 | FLOSSrookie | or wait. |
| 16:26.15 | FLOSSrookie | oops |
| 16:29.09 | jordisayol | the current rpm packages are not installable on Fedora 18 due to a change on its rpm rules. Now only one package can own an specific directory, BRL-CAD declared all directories, which collided with other packages. I've fixed this issue. |
| 16:31.11 | brlcad | jordisayol: just fyi, I'm working through commit reviews now (300+ to go) and we'll hopefully be able to tag a new release next week |
| 16:31.13 | starseeker | jordisayol: do you have an rpm package that will work? |
| 16:31.23 | starseeker | if not, FLOSSrookie needs to build it |
| 16:31.40 | FLOSSrookie | jordisayol: How do I relax under the sun with this fix? |
| 16:32.36 | brlcad | FLOSSrookie: have you used brl-cad before? |
| 16:33.29 | jordisayol | starseeker: no, the current rpm from sourceforge are not installable on Fedora 18. No problem on Fedora 17, 16, 15... |
| 16:33.57 | starseeker | FLOSSrookie: go ahead and install those dev packages, if you can |
| 16:34.03 | starseeker | once you do, you're ready to build |
| 16:34.17 | FLOSSrookie | brlcad: A little yes. I moved to Fedora from openSUSE and because of this problem could not continue learning. |
| 16:34.36 | FLOSSrookie | starseeker: Ready! |
| 16:35.02 | starseeker | OK - open up the source tarball |
| 16:35.10 | starseeker | tar -xvzf brlcad-7.22.0.tar.gz |
| 16:35.20 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:n_reed * 54831 brlcad/trunk/src/mged/tedit.c: remove extra argument to bu_which |
| 16:35.29 | starseeker | downloaded from here http://sourceforge.net/projects/brlcad/files/BRL-CAD%20Source/7.22.0/ |
| 16:36.26 | jordisayol | It's quiet easy to generate new rpm packages with sh/make_rpm.sh, but if you want to generate from |
| 16:36.27 | jordisayol | http://sourceforge.net/projects/brlcad/files/BRL-CAD%20Source/7.22.0/ |
| 16:36.27 | jordisayol | You have to fix it. is not so complicated |
| 16:36.56 | starseeker | jordisayol: let's get him building it first, then we can look into the RPMs |
| 16:37.16 | jordisayol | ok |
| 16:38.41 | FLOSSrookie | A few moments while it downloads. |
| 16:43.47 | FLOSSrookie | It is extracted...now where? |
| 16:43.54 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:n_reed * 54832 (brlcad/trunk/src/libged/editit.c brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep_debug.cpp): remove unused variables |
| 16:45.32 | starseeker | FLOSSrookie: I'll be back in a bit - jordisayol can help you once you've got the source tarball |
| 16:45.52 | FLOSSrookie | :( |
| 16:45.55 | *** join/#brlcad milamber (~devlin@d118-75-244-176.try.wideopenwest.com) |
| 16:46.11 | starseeker | FLOSSrookie: the script should actually simplify things |
| 16:46.12 | FLOSSrookie | Okay, jordisayol I'll double your salary if you can help me ;) |
| 16:46.31 | jordisayol | 0 * 2 = 0 :-D |
| 16:47.16 | jordisayol | FLOSSrookie: wait a moment, I'm downloading sources too |
| 16:49.29 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 54833 (brlcad/trunk/configure.ac brlcad/trunk/include/brep.h and 2 others): More tweaks to try and get autotools working - something is going wrong with librt and openNURBS |
| 16:52.57 | jordisayol | FLOSSrookie: ok, open sh/make_rpm.sh file in a plain text editor like gedit |
| 16:53.43 | FLOSSrookie | jordisayol: done. |
| 16:54.15 | jordisayol | FLOSSrookie: go to line 262 and add # to comment it |
| 16:54.35 | jordisayol | FLOSSrookie: at the beginning of the line |
| 16:54.41 | FLOSSrookie | jordisayol: Done. |
| 16:56.09 | jordisayol | FLOSSrookie: save it and run it from sources root: |
| 16:56.09 | jordisayol | $ sh/make_rpm.sh |
| 16:56.33 | FLOSSrookie | jordisayol: Need I use sudo? |
| 16:56.33 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:brlcad * 54834 brlcad/trunk/NEWS: jove is no more. cliff did it, blame him. ;) |
| 16:56.58 | jordisayol | FLOSSrookie: no, it will use fakeroot |
| 16:57.36 | FLOSSrookie | jordisayol: |
| 16:57.36 | FLOSSrookie | * Missing mesa-libGLU-devel... |
| 16:57.36 | FLOSSrookie | * Missing pango-devel... |
| 16:58.22 | jordisayol | FLOSSrookie: ok, run: |
| 16:58.22 | jordisayol | $ sudo yum install mesa-libGLU-devel pango-devel |
| 16:58.39 | FLOSSrookie | jordisayol: Should I download the x86 or i686? I am using an intel mac 64bit? |
| 16:59.09 | FLOSSrookie | The last sentence should be a statement not a question. |
| 16:59.18 | FLOSSrookie | Oops again. |
| 17:00.14 | FLOSSrookie | ^ jordisayol |
| 17:00.21 | jordisayol | This not depend on which processor you have, it depends on which Fedora you have installed, but do not care about this, if your fedora is 64-bit, it will download 64 packages |
| 17:00.38 | brlcad | starseeker: something indeed is not right if you're needing to change the //'s in brep.h ... |
| 17:00.46 | brlcad | it should only hit those with a c++ compiler |
| 17:00.53 | brlcad | it should only work with a c compiler |
| 17:00.58 | brlcad | s/work/warn/ |
| 17:01.37 | brlcad | so it's encountering those lines with a c compiler, implying the #ifdef protections may be wrong |
| 17:01.42 | FLOSSrookie | jordisayol: Done. |
| 17:02.01 | FLOSSrookie | Now I need to install fakeroot, hold on. |
| 17:02.36 | FLOSSrookie | Okay, it is processing with make_rpm. |
| 17:03.22 | FLOSSrookie | Oh, does brl-cad use any qt stuff? |
| 17:03.29 | brlcad | FLOSSrookie: not yet |
| 17:03.43 | FLOSSrookie | brlcad: Good, don't |
| 17:04.07 | brlcad | we will eventually :) |
| 17:04.14 | brlcad | (in a few years) |
| 17:04.18 | FLOSSrookie | Why not gtk? |
| 17:04.38 | brlcad | api complexity and cleanliness of portability to windows |
| 17:05.09 | FLOSSrookie | brlcad: What about something like wxwidgets then. One can make some good looking stuff with it. |
| 17:05.50 | FLOSSrookie | jordisayol: I am still at about 13% |
| 17:06.01 | brlcad | I like wxwidgets, but it can't handle our needs |
| 17:06.18 | jordisayol | FLOSSrookie: it's correct. It will take some minutes, depending on your cpu |
| 17:06.28 | FLOSSrookie | brlcad: I only ask because using qt in gtk env. looks ugly. |
| 17:06.30 | brlcad | for the style of interface we're designing towards, we need some pretty tight features |
| 17:07.23 | FLOSSrookie | And vice versa. |
| 17:07.25 | brlcad | that much probably won't be an issue because the plan is a custom qt facade |
| 17:07.37 | brlcad | not qt's default appearance |
| 17:07.52 | FLOSSrookie | brlcad: Custom icons too? |
| 17:07.58 | brlcad | more like a game interace, just using qt under the hood |
| 17:08.18 | FLOSSrookie | brlcad: Like a blender interface? |
| 17:08.27 | brlcad | "sorta" ... but not really ;) |
| 17:09.00 | FLOSSrookie | brlcad: Could the type of system in use by blender work for you? It would be cool. |
| 17:09.10 | FLOSSrookie | ui that is. |
| 17:09.17 | brlcad | the goal is towards being very discoverable and explorable |
| 17:09.23 | brlcad | I wouldn't say blender is discoverable |
| 17:09.42 | brlcad | the type of system they use is interesting |
| 17:09.48 | brlcad | their new one at least |
| 17:09.58 | FLOSSrookie | Yes, their new one is cool. |
| 17:12.00 | FLOSSrookie | I know there are a lot of posts on forums and blogs with questions like "Can blender be used as CAD" and the standard response is that CAD can perform calculations. Can you give me some links on just what this means. I am new after all. Very new. |
| 17:12.12 | brlcad | FLOSSrookie: I'd love to share more code with Blender, but unfortunately it's a one way street (from us to them) |
| 17:12.28 | brlcad | their license isn't compatible with ours (without us adopting theirs) |
| 17:13.25 | brlcad | FLOSSrookie: yeah, blender is fundamentally inappropriate for CAD and/or solid modeling |
| 17:14.50 | FLOSSrookie | Some links to explain further? |
| 17:14.52 | brlcad | the reason is mostly due to the underlying mathematics involved in representing geometry |
| 17:15.16 | brlcad | a bit complicated to explain in plain terms, but for solid modeling, you have to keep track of topological structure of geometry |
| 17:15.32 | brlcad | so you can know whether you're inside or outside of something, for example |
| 17:15.50 | brlcad | blender doesn't care about inside and outside or connectivity, it only cares about surfaces |
| 17:15.58 | FLOSSrookie | But how is this advantageous to calculations? |
| 17:16.15 | brlcad | say you want to compute the mass of something |
| 17:16.20 | FLOSSrookie | jordisayol: 60 percent |
| 17:16.23 | brlcad | you can't do that if all you ahve is surfaces |
| 17:16.31 | jordisayol | FLOSSrookie: ok |
| 17:16.49 | brlcad | even if your surfaces happen to close a volume, that doesn't necessarily mean it's topologically valid |
| 17:17.14 | brlcad | which means it might still give incorrect values, you don't know |
| 17:17.27 | FLOSSrookie | brlcad: Does brlcad make it easy to reach these numbers for calculations? Do I need to use outside programs like Octave or something? |
| 17:17.51 | jordisayol | FLOSSrookie: if you've installed a privative graphic driver, then the resulting RPM will only be installable on your system |
| 17:17.59 | brlcad | and that's the one aspect that's even worse .. not being able to calculate a volume is bad, but giving a volume calculation that "might" be inaccurate is even worse |
| 17:18.45 | FLOSSrookie | jordisayol: In other words, "don't share it buddy" right? ;) |
| 17:19.02 | brlcad | FLOSSrookie: it entirely depends on what you need to do, but we do focus extensively on solidity issues, geometry representation, and robust calculations |
| 17:19.10 | brlcad | our libraries are geared for that from the ground up |
| 17:19.45 | brlcad | that's why our biggest sector of use is by analysis programs that use our geometry and perform their own simulations on top |
| 17:19.46 | jordisayol | FLOSSrookie: well, if the other computers have the same graphic card with the same driver, then will not be any problem, that's all |
| 17:20.05 | FLOSSrookie | brlcad: Can you link me some documentation as how to get at this geometry? |
| 17:20.28 | brlcad | FLOSSrookie: as a user, a developer, what are you talking about? |
| 17:20.53 | FLOSSrookie | brlcad: I guess more like user. |
| 17:21.08 | brlcad | you "get at geometry" in simulations almost always as a developer because you're implementing the simulation... :) |
| 17:21.26 | brlcad | as a user, what is your goal has to be the consideration |
| 17:21.33 | brlcad | you "have" the geometry that you create |
| 17:22.05 | brlcad | you can export it to analysis systems or use the ones that integrate directly (which you probably don't have access to, most are restricted access) |
| 17:22.29 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:bob1961 * 54835 brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/ArcherCore.tcl: Arrange to sync the hierarchy tree in Archer after a call to xpush. |
| 17:22.34 | brlcad | we've talked about providing some simplistic simulation services directly without our system, but that gets on the fringe of features |
| 17:22.47 | brlcad | we've got enough to worry about as it is ;) |
| 17:22.54 | FLOSSrookie | brlcad: Restricted access? You mean proprietary? |
| 17:23.02 | brlcad | sometimes yes, sometimes no |
| 17:23.36 | FLOSSrookie | If it is not proprietary then how is it restricted? |
| 17:24.02 | brlcad | several of our customers are government agencies, their work isn't technically proprietary but it's not available without an agreement in place either |
| 17:25.48 | FLOSSrookie | Oh, I see. But any documentation on how to use other tools to import and analyze stuff from brlcad? |
| 17:27.19 | brlcad | that gets back to what exactly you're trying to do |
| 17:27.22 | FLOSSrookie | Oh, and would it be possible to update the documentation? If I get a little more time could I help? English is my native language. And when I am not in a rush (as I am on the IRC) I do very well. I am thinking it needs to be made with LaTeX. |
| 17:27.43 | brlcad | we're always open to contributions of ANY kind |
| 17:27.43 | FLOSSrookie | It is only now at 100 percent and almost done. |
| 17:27.54 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:carlmoore * 54836 (brlcad/trunk/INSTALL brlcad/trunk/misc/jove.emacs and 2 others): remove trailing blanks/tabs |
| 17:28.12 | brlcad | we'll teach you how to get involved too, if needed .. so long as there is interest ;) |
| 17:28.52 | brlcad | our documentation is actually very extensive -- I calculated more than 1M words a couple years ago |
| 17:29.25 | brlcad | that's roughly 2000-4000 pages of documentation |
| 17:32.08 | FLOSSrookie | What was used to compose the current documentaion: MS word, OpenOffice, Tex? |
| 17:32.21 | FLOSSrookie | jordisayol: It is now installing. Compiling is done. |
| 17:32.43 | jordisayol | FLOSSrookie: ok |
| 17:34.40 | FLOSSrookie | brlcad: ^ |
| 17:36.35 | jordisayol | FLOSSrookie: installation went fine? |
| 17:37.07 | FLOSSrookie | jordisayol: Almost done...I think. It does not give feedback as a percentage. |
| 17:38.51 | jordisayol | FLOSSrookie: ok, Just want to know if I'll double my salary today... :-) |
| 17:39.23 | brlcad | FLOSSrookie: with that much documentation across 30+ years .. just about everything ;) |
| 17:39.37 | brlcad | it's now nearly all in docbook xml format |
| 17:40.03 | brlcad | but was originally a mix of latex, text, msword, troff manpages, and html |
| 17:40.20 | brlcad | from docbook xml, we can export to ALL of those, so it's the future ;) |
| 17:41.53 | FLOSSrookie | By the way, focus more on functionality before you give it a shiny new interface. Export to 2D technical drawing would be cool, if it doesn't do it already. |
| 17:42.14 | FLOSSrookie | I cannot stand those people who want something pretty rather than functional. |
| 17:43.51 | FLOSSrookie | jordisayol: Its done. Finally. |
| 17:44.42 | FLOSSrookie | jordisayol: Now what? |
| 17:44.43 | jordisayol | FLOSSrookie: good! |
| 17:45.29 | jordisayol | FLOSSrookie: now go to gnome3 menu by pressing left windows key |
| 17:45.38 | jordisayol | and type: archer |
| 17:45.48 | FLOSSrookie | jordisayol: Using xfce actually. |
| 17:45.56 | jordisayol | ok |
| 17:46.20 | FLOSSrookie | jordisayol: I see nothing with that name. |
| 17:46.26 | jordisayol | there will be a new "BRLCAD" entry on the menu |
| 17:46.39 | jordisayol | is not there? |
| 17:47.09 | FLOSSrookie | jordisayol: First help me find the installation like I did with gcc "which gcc" what is the binary name? |
| 17:48.36 | FLOSSrookie | jordisayol: No, there is not menu entry. |
| 17:48.41 | jordisayol | FLOSSrookie: sorry, I don't understand you |
| 17:49.11 | FLOSSrookie | What is the binary so that I can maybe execute it from the terminal. It has no menu entry after all. |
| 17:49.17 | jordisayol | FLOSSrookie: and there isn't some menu entry like "other" |
| 17:49.18 | jordisayol | ? |
| 17:49.56 | jordisayol | FLOSSrookie: /usr/brlcad/bin/archer |
| 17:49.59 | FLOSSrookie | jordisayol: Yes, but I had that before and it holds all the xscreensaver stuff. No entry for brlcad. |
| 17:50.25 | jordisayol | mmmm, strange |
| 17:50.36 | FLOSSrookie | jordisayol: It does not exist. |
| 17:51.26 | FLOSSrookie | jordisayol: Did I miss a step after the make_rpm? |
| 17:51.33 | FLOSSrookie | make_rpm script? |
| 17:51.43 | jordisayol | no, it do every step for you |
| 17:52.04 | jordisayol | FLOSSrookie: did you run /usr/brlcad/bin/archer without problems? |
| 17:52.24 | FLOSSrookie | there is no executable "archer" on my system. |
| 17:53.03 | jordisayol | FLOSSrookie: how did you install the resulting package? |
| 17:53.45 | FLOSSrookie | That script was make_rpm yes? Where did it put it? |
| 17:53.53 | FLOSSrookie | It made an RPM yes? |
| 17:53.59 | jordisayol | yes |
| 17:54.07 | FLOSSrookie | jordisayol: Where was that placed? |
| 17:54.17 | jordisayol | it places in the same level of sources folder |
| 17:54.36 | FLOSSrookie | jordisayol: Did it auto install that RPM? |
| 17:55.07 | jordisayol | nop, it only generates it. now you have to install |
| 17:55.27 | FLOSSrookie | jordisayol: I don't see it. That is why I asked if I missed a step. |
| 17:55.49 | jordisayol | FLOSSrookie: the script finished without errors? |
| 17:55.56 | FLOSSrookie | jordisayol: Affirmative. |
| 17:56.17 | FLOSSrookie | "exit 0" |
| 17:56.30 | jordisayol | ok, then the rpm packages has to be saved at ../ from where you built it |
| 17:57.20 | jordisayol | FLOSSrookie: is it there? |
| 17:58.14 | FLOSSrookie | I think it is. I had to sort by mod time in the view because I had others for brl-cad there. It appears to be working so far. |
| 17:59.07 | FLOSSrookie | jordisayol: ITS ALIVE, its alive !!!! :) :) |
| 17:59.32 | FLOSSrookie | How are you going to spend your raise? |
| 18:00.05 | jordisayol | FLOSSrookie: don't know, I'm thinking on it... :-) |
| 18:00.24 | FLOSSrookie | Well, thanks guys! |
| 18:00.32 | jordisayol | FLOSSrookie: did you get a new entry on menu now? |
| 18:00.41 | FLOSSrookie | jordisayol: Yes indeed. |
| 18:00.47 | jordisayol | ok, perfect |
| 18:08.39 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 54837 brlcad/trunk/include/brep.h: Shouldn't have to use C style comments here - why isn't the #ifdef __cplusplus conditional protecting the C++ code? |
| 18:10.50 | starseeker | brlcad: I don't get it - I wrapped the C++ code in the ifdef __cplusplus, but a C compilation is complaining regardless |
| 18:16.44 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 54838 brlcad/trunk/include/brep.h: whoops, need the extern C++ |
| 18:22.06 | starseeker | brlcad: I suppose I did/am doing something wrong, but I'm not sure what - the CMake build gets away with it because of std=gnu99, which we had to pull in for some of the OSX stuff IIRC |
| 18:26.44 | starseeker | using a pragma message, it looks like __cplusplus is NOT defined, and the compiler is complaining about the comments anyway??? |
| 18:53.59 | *** join/#brlcad jaake (~h4ckm3@64.90.163.147.static.nyinternet.net) |
| 18:54.15 | jaake | hey, I jsut emerged this on gentoo |
| 18:54.21 | jaake | How do you start it? |
| 18:54.26 | jaake | do I need to install a front end? |
| 18:54.52 | ``Erik | you probably want 'mged' |
| 18:55.03 | jaake | is that a front end? |
| 18:55.27 | ``Erik | it's a graphical modeller, comes with the suite |
| 18:56.47 | jordisayol | brlcad: thanks for your answer! Now I've seen it... :-/ |
| 18:59.07 | *** join/#brlcad milamber (~devlin@d118-75-244-176.try.wideopenwest.com) |
| 19:01.55 | jaake | okay I found mged-brlcad.desktop in /use/share/applications but it won't run from there |
| 19:02.57 | jaake | I can't find a man brlcad or a info brlcad either |
| 19:03.10 | jaake | no man mged |
| 19:12.15 | jaake | okay it's in /usr/brlcad/bin/mged which is not in the PATH variable by default, might be a good idea to make a symlink in /usr/bin/ on install for mged |
| 19:12.17 | jaake | w/e ty |
| 19:17.03 | brlcad | jaake: brl-cad is comprised of over 400+ tools .. should we symlink them all in /usr/bin? ;) |
| 19:18.16 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:carlmoore * 54839 brlcad/trunk/src/util/pix-png.c: just the Usage message if run with no arguments AND no file pipes |
| 19:18.32 | brlcad | either way, that's for the gentoo maintainer to do, which isn't us |
| 19:18.46 | jaake | brlcad: point taken |
| 19:18.56 | brlcad | there used to be a script that would set up the paths, don't know if that's still there |
| 19:19.09 | brlcad | because you ideally have PATH and MANPATH set |
| 19:19.10 | jaake | I guess not many people are going to run into this that aren't also capable of figuring it out |
| 19:19.19 | brlcad | nods |
| 19:20.01 | brlcad | and those that can't, generally didn't want/need a CAD system to begin with and really just needed a modeling tool (for which there are easier-to-use alternatives) |
| 19:20.36 | brlcad | FLOSSrookie: we partially export to 2D, but that's a work-in-progress (and a known limitation that we're looking to fix) |
| 19:21.18 | brlcad | we have tons of functionality really -- our interface is our weakest aspect (very "expert-friendly" .. hard to learn, hard to use until you are an expert) |
| 19:30.02 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:carlmoore * 54840 brlcad/trunk/src/fb/png-fb.c: put 'png-fb' name into messages |
| 19:30.19 | brlcad | FLOSSrookie: yes, in terms of http://www.linux.com/images/stories/blender-ui-sidebyside.png being an improvement, but still a different UI approach overall |
| 19:30.29 | brlcad | and drastically different from where we're at now |
| 19:37.01 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:carlmoore * 54841 brlcad/trunk/src/util/png-pix.c: add 'png-pix: ' to error messages, and eliminate newline in middle of Usage |
| 19:41.55 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:n_reed * 54842 (brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/src/express/expparse.y brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/src/express/generated/expparse.c brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/src/express/generated/verification_info.cmake): correct a mistake in r51070, which apparently wasn't a perfect application of SCL git c415e49 |
| 19:42.32 | FLOSSrookie | brlcad: If you ask me, 2D export aught to be a high priority not low. |
| 19:42.59 | FLOSSrookie | ought, I mean. |
| 19:43.03 | brlcad | FLOSSrookie: didn't mean to imply it was low priority |
| 19:43.46 | brlcad | we've been investing the vast majority of our manpower in NURBS infrastructure, which provides equivalent representation support |
| 19:44.00 | brlcad | which is fundamental infrastructure needed to do 2D export well |
| 19:44.03 | brlcad | that gets us a TON of features actually |
| 19:44.32 | brlcad | 2D export, shaded displays (opengl-style), robust import, robust export, robust tessellation, ... |
| 19:44.47 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD Wiki:Himaniarora * 0 /wiki/User:Himaniarora: |
| 19:45.00 | brlcad | all features that are very very hard with our original mathematically-founded representation |
| 19:45.22 | brlcad | starseeker: you figure out what was going on with the comments? |
| 19:45.37 | brlcad | needing extern "C++" .. is very curious |
| 19:45.57 | FLOSSrookie | brlcad: Oh, can you give me some more info on how to use other programs which use brlcad data for calculations? |
| 19:46.12 | brlcad | usually you only extern "C" since C++ will be the default when compiling, not sure what that's about |
| 19:46.32 | brlcad | FLOSSrookie: to what end if you don't have access to those programs? :) |
| 19:46.52 | brlcad | FLOSSrookie: easier to have a goal in mind that we can help you work towards |
| 19:47.21 | brlcad | one common request, though, is to export a brl-cad model for rapid prototyping |
| 19:48.07 | FLOSSrookie | I think that is more what I am getting at. |
| 19:48.12 | brlcad | so you model something, and then use one of our g-* exporters (e.g., g-stl) to export to a polygonal format, which is in turn read by a CNC or lathe or milling machine, etc |
| 19:48.50 | brlcad | or at the most simple level, create some great visualizations or animations of a model |
| 19:49.05 | starseeker | brlcad: not really sure - part of it seems to be GCC complaining about comments when it has no right to |
| 19:49.16 | brlcad | for that you model it, set up a scene for rendering, and make it look fantastic, then render images or a movie |
| 19:49.45 | brlcad | starseeker: gcc doesn't exactly get that wrong, just does what it's told :) |
| 19:49.55 | brlcad | so we're telling it something wrong somewhere |
| 19:50.01 | brlcad | what's the actual compile line look like? |
| 19:50.24 | brlcad | also wonders how "new" this is |
| 19:50.30 | FLOSSrookie | brlcad: So, those programs that I do not have access to can do stuff like physics and measure stress etc...? |
| 19:50.46 | starseeker | I put both ifdef _cplusplus and ifndef _cplusplus pragma statements in there - it *didn't* print the pragma that would have indicated it was inside the C++ code, and still complained about comments within that block |
| 19:51.17 | brlcad | wow, go carl .. I think r54839 is his first real bit of logic |
| 19:51.29 | brlcad | FLOSSrookie: yep |
| 19:52.21 | brlcad | simulate explosions or radiation transport or penetration equivalences along with the usual stress, strain, fracture and kinematics |
| 19:53.17 | FLOSSrookie | brlcad: Wow! I wonder how much it would take to make a program like that? Why is that the Army opened brlcad but not a program like that? |
| 19:53.18 | brlcad | starseeker: so that sounds really fishy (obviously) |
| 19:54.17 | brlcad | FLOSSrookie: hundreds of manyears effort to bring something to a production-quality useful status, generally speaking |
| 19:54.48 | brlcad | an individual could probably whip up a demo in far far less time, but they'd need considerable educational background |
| 19:55.34 | FLOSSrookie | Why would they not open up the other half? (the army) |
| 19:57.15 | FLOSSrookie | brlcad: Without that other application isn't brlcad usage going to suffer for others not part of a corporation or government entity. |
| 19:58.59 | brlcad | FLOSSrookie: you'd have to ask them that, but that's kind of like asking why doesn't microsoft open up ther internal xbox tools |
| 19:59.36 | FLOSSrookie | brlcad: MS does not open anything. The Army did. I just wonder why they stopped halfway. |
| 19:59.40 | brlcad | those analysis tools have very little bearing on the usage of brl-cad as open source |
| 20:00.05 | FLOSSrookie | brlcad: But how useful without it? |
| 20:00.08 | brlcad | I don't see it as stopping halfway |
| 20:00.21 | brlcad | those tools are fully independent |
| 20:00.52 | brlcad | and you're missing the point with "MS does not open anything" |
| 20:02.12 | brlcad | microsoft open sourced the kinect code, for example, but that doesn't mean they "stopped halfway" by not open sourcing their xbox games that use the kinect |
| 20:03.50 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:carlmoore * 54843 brlcad/trunk/src/anim/chan_permute.c: fix a comment and a Usage statement which had 'channel' instead of 'chan_permute' |
| 20:08.27 | FLOSSrookie | Is brlcad of much use without one of those programs? |
| 20:10.35 | ``Erik | Yes. |
| 20:11.06 | FLOSSrookie | ``Erik: How so? |
| 20:11.20 | FLOSSrookie | ``Erik: Educate me :) |
| 20:11.24 | ``Erik | that all depends on your goal |
| 20:12.14 | ``Erik | is a hammer of much use if you're not busy hammering the crossbrace into the gate of a chicken coup? |
| 20:12.22 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:brlcad * 54844 brlcad/trunk/src/libbn/poly.c: this temporarily reverts r54495 because it introduced regression failures in the solids test (due to subtle graze/hit changes). need to update the regression test to match and propagate other improvements |
| 20:12.23 | brlcad | FLOSSrookie: like I said, you can still export a model for machining |
| 20:12.33 | brlcad | or render images for visualization or animations/movies |
| 20:12.48 | brlcad | lots of awesome potential there |
| 20:13.32 | ``Erik | ponders a BRL-CAD koans page |
| 20:13.50 | FLOSSrookie | brlcad: That is true, I am just wondering now if it would do much good if one of those programs could find over-stress but because you don't have it you will not know it and you mill for nothing. Or maybe it is just that I am so new that I misunderstand. That is also very possible. |
| 20:13.55 | brlcad | you are kinda asking how can a pencil be useful without #20 paper |
| 20:14.12 | starseeker | googles koans |
| 20:14.40 | brlcad | googles a pencil |
| 20:14.51 | ``Erik | kinky |
| 20:15.54 | FLOSSrookie | brlcad: I don't think it is much like that at all. |
| 20:16.25 | brlcad | there are plenty of ways to analyze a model |
| 20:16.25 | FLOSSrookie | There is a difference between art and calculation. |
| 20:16.30 | brlcad | several open source options even |
| 20:16.38 | brlcad | feed the model to them |
| 20:16.39 | FLOSSrookie | brlcad: What are they? |
| 20:16.44 | brlcad | google is your friend |
| 20:16.48 | brlcad | they're not our domain |
| 20:17.00 | FLOSSrookie | All you have to do is name drop. |
| 20:17.09 | brlcad | any more than any other unreleased apps or commercial products |
| 20:17.14 | ``Erik | I've been awfully tempted to model the inside of my living room so I can try placing furniture and doing some raytraces to see how it'd look if I rearranged, or bought new furniture |
| 20:17.52 | ``Erik | or maybe I'm building a radio control airplane and I want to see if the cg is close enough to the cl to minimize ballast |
| 20:18.11 | FLOSSrookie | What kind of term should I use? What is the technical names for these apps? |
| 20:18.20 | brlcad | FLOSSrookie: the way you frame it is *specifically* as an endorsement or furthering you to look at them, and I don't think that'd be useful to you or me to do that.... |
| 20:18.36 | brlcad | FLOSSrookie: try looking for open source finite element analysis software |
| 20:18.46 | brlcad | or open source stress strain simulation |
| 20:18.53 | ``Erik | fem/fae, w00t |
| 20:18.58 | starseeker | or animation and rendering, if you want pictures... |
| 20:19.14 | brlcad | FLOSSrookie: http://brlcad.org/BRL-CAD_Priorities.png may be of interest |
| 20:19.28 | brlcad | along with http://brlcad.org/Industry_Diagram.png |
| 20:19.37 | brlcad | lots of terms in there... |
| 20:19.50 | ``Erik | for amusement, I once modeled the solar system described in Nivens 'ringworld', just to see what it'd look like as described, instead of a hoaky artist rendition |
| 20:21.25 | ``Erik | stares at the ucw a/b testing framework he just scrapped together O.o |
| 20:23.58 | FLOSSrookie | ``Erik: What do the "***" mean on irc? |
| 20:24.24 | ``Erik | 'action' |
| 20:24.46 | FLOSSrookie | ``Erik: Were you hinting something to me then? |
| 20:24.59 | jordisayol | FLOSSrookie: just type: me is happy using BRL-CAD |
| 20:25.57 | FLOSSrookie | jordisayol: Why? |
| 20:26.15 | jordisayol | just do it and will see what happen ;-) |
| 20:26.34 | FLOSSrookie | me is happy using BRL-CAD |
| 20:26.43 | jordisayol | :-( |
| 20:26.57 | FLOSSrookie | jordisayol: Wow! I feel better already. |
| 20:27.04 | jordisayol | hahahaha |
| 20:27.06 | jordisayol | sorry |
| 20:27.11 | caen23 | it's /me :-) |
| 20:27.16 | FLOSSrookie | jordisayol: Why? |
| 20:27.17 | jordisayol | yes, sorru |
| 20:27.42 | jordisayol | try: /me is happy to use BRL-CAD |
| 20:27.57 | jordisayol | s/sorru/sorry/ |
| 20:29.08 | FLOSSrookie | is happy to use BRL-CAD |
| 20:30.54 | FLOSSrookie | Do any of you have any experience with any of these fea apps: http://www.mechanicalengineeringblog.com/tag/list-of-open-source-softwares/ |
| 20:32.07 | FLOSSrookie | Now can these programs import data from brlcad? |
| 20:32.54 | FLOSSrookie | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z88_FEM_software it says import of STL and I believe brlcad can export to that yes? |
| 20:46.13 | *** part/#brlcad jordisayol (~jordisayo@unaffiliated/jordisayol) |
| 20:52.59 | *** part/#brlcad FLOSSrookie (~brian@107-200-34-111.lightspeed.tulsok.sbcglobal.net) |
| 21:02.52 | brlcad | answered in pm before he disconnected |
| 21:02.52 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:brlcad * 54845 brlcad/trunk/include/vmath.h: increase the precision of all our vmath math constants to 36 digits. in the process, found an error in M_PI_4 but it was below double-precision. |
| 21:04.38 | *** join/#brlcad Mahi (~Mahi@ec2-23-20-215-97.compute-1.amazonaws.com) |
| 21:13.23 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:brlcad * 54846 brlcad/trunk/include/vmath.h: add an M_PI_3 constant even though it's not common, just because we need it in at least one place |
| 21:16.54 | brlcad | starseeker: do the regressions pass for you now? (they should) |
| 21:17.18 | brlcad | I think the poly case is one of improvement, so the regression test result will need to be updated |
| 21:17.47 | brlcad | it added precision deep within the polynomial root solver, so it's worth fixing |
| 21:18.51 | ``Erik | altering the results of the root solver while the tangential torii issue is still giving 'off by 1' errors in the regression tests? O.o |
| 21:20.04 | ``Erik | (or is it time to give up on that and regenerate the expected result images) |
| 21:23.00 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:n_reed * 54847 brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/src/fedex_plus/classes.c: move variable definition outside of loops to avoid multiple declaration errors in generated sources |
| 22:01.25 | *** join/#brlcad tat (~tat@5.28.75.74) |
| 22:02.07 | tat | is there a way to use brl-cad on OSX with middle mouse button ??? |
| 22:02.21 | tat | well the mac doesn't have a middle mouse button |
| 22:04.33 | tat | ok found it under X11 preferences "emulate 3 mouse button" then hold a while pressing the mouse |
| 22:04.44 | tat | ok found it under X11 preferences "emulate 3 mouse button" then hold alt key while pressing the mouse |
| 22:07.07 | *** join/#brlcad merzo (~merzo@215-77-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net) |
| 22:35.32 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 54848 brlcad/trunk/src/other/openNURBS/Makefile.am: Still need to build these openNURBS files. |
| 22:43.37 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 54849 (brlcad/trunk/src/burst/Makefile.am brlcad/trunk/src/bwish/Makefile.am and 24 others): Distcheck still not working in autotools, but this at least gets things compiling again... |
| 22:47.45 | starseeker | mutter |
| 22:48.08 | starseeker | can't remember - what did we do in autotools about cleaning out files with names like ttk::widget.n? |
| 22:48.29 | *** join/#brlcad milamber (~devlin@d118-75-244-176.try.wideopenwest.com) |
| 23:02.04 | *** join/#brlcad brlcad (~sean@66-118-151-70.static.sagonet.net) |
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| 23:05.40 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 54850 brlcad/trunk/src/other/tk/Makefile.am: try to get rid of all the ttk man pages. |
| 23:07.07 | starseeker | doggone it, now libpng is leaving a bunch of stuff |
| 23:09.18 | starseeker | votes for autotools removal in 7.24.2 |
| 23:15.03 | starseeker | brlcad: check - regression succeedes with CMake build here |
| 23:15.30 | starseeker | autotools distcheck either needs updating or is having problems with file locations, not sure which yet |
| 23:15.58 | starseeker | need to finish some other stuff, so I'm temporarily off autotools if you want to have a go |
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| 23:53.29 | *** part/#brlcad Mahi (~Mahi@ec2-23-20-215-97.compute-1.amazonaws.com) |
