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| 01:49.04 | starseeker | has a new favorite unit for data storage density - Gigabytes/Boxcar (http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4889441&cid=46463509) |
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| 05:08.14 | brlcad | suspiciously quiet |
| 05:10.33 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD Wiki:Richajain1912 * 6801 /wiki/User:Richajain1912/GSOC2014/: /* Why me */ |
| 05:14.56 | brlcad | that's better |
| 05:21.28 | richa | brlcad: Can you please give some suggestions on my proposal? I did not get any from the community :/ |
| 05:21.40 | richa | http://brlcad.org/wiki/User:Richajain1912/GSOC2014/ |
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| 05:23.13 | brlcad | heh, no page there |
| 05:24.58 | brlcad | found it |
| 05:25.27 | brlcad | ah, maybe I missed the slash copypasting |
| 05:26.39 | brlcad | richa: so right away, I'd have the same question as I asked another -- if you worked with wikimedia last year, what have you done since then with them and why not continue to work with them? |
| 05:28.48 | brlcad | "The source code can be seen here" links to a dead/empty link too |
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| 05:30.55 | brlcad | "Workflowy" |
| 05:31.49 | richa | brlcad: I am still in touch with Wikimedia, just that I was busy since 2-3 months and could not focus much due to some academic work |
| 05:32.03 | infinite | hey! while compiling brlcad I am getting this error Unknown CMake command "BRLCAD_LIB_INCLUDE_DIRS", how to remove this? |
| 05:32.13 | richa | brlcad: I will see to that link |
| 05:32.26 | brlcad | richa: check all of your links just to be sure |
| 05:32.38 | richa | brlcad: yeah |
| 05:33.33 | brlcad | richa: so the biggest issue i see besides a lack of technical detail is your timeline |
| 05:34.25 | brlcad | richa: you've proposed a classic waterfall style approach which has you investigating, writing code, more code, testing, debugging, and docs |
| 05:35.24 | brlcad | probably is most software projects have trouble staying on schedule, particularly when the implementation is not fully defined |
| 05:35.46 | brlcad | so if your investing or coding takes too long, you'll end up without docs or inadequate testing |
| 05:36.39 | brlcad | you sould be doing testing/debugging from week 1 and docs shortly after .. and throughout |
| 05:36.58 | brlcad | and not just say "I'm doing these throughout, but actually planning for them throughout |
| 05:37.24 | brlcad | i'd like to see more granularity in your schedule, maybe week by week what you'd hope to accomplish or that week |
| 05:37.58 | richa | brlcad: ok, I will breakdown the schedule further including some specific purposes per week |
| 05:38.53 | brlcad | you also don't list any holiday time, which could be true, but usually is not |
| 05:40.28 | brlcad | project description is pretty vague and could use more detail |
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| 05:41.01 | brlcad | maybe try drawing a diagram if it'll help, or at least expanding the text a little bit to talk more about the two approaches |
| 05:41.11 | brlcad | and what happens if neither approach is good? |
| 05:41.29 | brlcad | good: a data-flow diagram |
| 05:42.11 | brlcad | regardless, good progress -- keep at it and ask questions :) |
| 05:42.22 | brlcad | (specific ones) |
| 05:42.51 | richa | brlcad: Thanks for the suggestions, I will try to improve it |
| 05:43.43 | brlcad | i have confidence in your ability to do that, it's a good start |
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| 06:34.05 | infinite_ | hello I am much interested into the project voxelize but the command is already present there in voxels.c , what essentially one has to do? |
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| 09:00.15 | kesha | brlcad: Hi |
| 09:07.05 | infinite_ | what is the expected behaviour of voxelize command? |
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| 14:10.17 | hoiji | brlcad: in case you haven't seen it yet, could you take a look at my proposal too http://brlcad.org/wiki/User:PulkitMittal/GSOC2014/proposal. (I had already shown it to mpictor) |
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| 14:19.07 | brlcad | hoiji: will do, remind me in a bit ;) |
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| 14:55.48 | inderplus_ | can someone point me to some great CAD models in .g format ? |
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| 15:43.18 | hoiji | brlcad: I apologize for logging out. Did you go through my proposal? |
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| 15:44.47 | *** join/#brlcad inderplus_ (~inderplus@117.220.170.109) |
| 15:46.46 | brlcad | inderplus_: there are several .g examples provided in source and binary distributions |
| 15:46.58 | brlcad | in the db source directory or share/db install dir |
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| 15:47.11 | brlcad | maybe share/brlcad/db depending on ver |
| 15:47.26 | brlcad | hello jagvir |
| 15:51.08 | inderplus_ | brlcad: thanks :) |
| 15:52.56 | inderplus_ | I was looking for last year's GCI task, there was task I guess to make Iron Man's Arc Reactor in BRL-CAD and someone made a very nice one. |
| 15:53.27 | inderplus_ | but now when I go to GCI site, the list of completed projects doesn't show up. |
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| 16:02.32 | brlcad | inderplus_: looks like a melange bug |
| 16:26.34 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD Wiki:Perfectus shadow * 0 /wiki/User:Perfectus_shadow: |
| 16:37.13 | kanzure | so i thought the point of python-brlcad was that manually wrapping the objects wouldn't be necessary |
| 16:37.34 | kanzure | why is there an estimate regarding multiple days to wrap simple primitives? |
| 16:38.01 | kanzure | i guess this is regarding some of the ctypes leaky stuff getting into the python layer, but that seems like something that should be solved by walking through the methods and doing auto-fixup stuff |
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| 16:45.26 | brlcad | kanzure: good point |
| 16:46.48 | *** part/#brlcad gaganjyot (~gagan@101.215.191.250) |
| 16:46.50 | kanzure | i'm also okay with expecting different levels of programming knowledge from different contributors, of course |
| 16:47.00 | kanzure | so i'm torn on what to actually propose instead :) |
| 16:47.58 | brlcad | some of the more complicated objects are definitely going to take some time and effort regardless |
| 16:48.15 | brlcad | e.g., wrapping nurbs is not going to be easy |
| 16:48.34 | brlcad | even we punted |
| 16:48.44 | brlcad | it's the opennurbs api |
| 16:48.46 | kanzure | my understanding of the problem is that there are some ctypes-specific python objects that need to be created in order to pass into the ctypesgen-pre-wrapped functions |
| 16:49.15 | kanzure | like, uh, maybe lists, or lists of pointers? i should double check. |
| 16:49.19 | brlcad | yeah, especially for some of them like bots are a set of arrays |
| 16:49.30 | kanzure | but if these types are known in advance, couldn't there be a standard transformation that is applied instead of manually writing out all that python |
| 16:49.41 | brlcad | possibly |
| 16:49.49 | brlcad | sounds jsony |
| 16:50.30 | brlcad | i'd be cool with that being the goal, define a general interface that applies to all of them, then just have each one describe themselves |
| 16:50.35 | kanzure | https://github.com/kanzure/python-brlcad/blob/master/brlcad/ged.py |
| 16:50.38 | brlcad | then just need the one container handler |
| 16:50.54 | kanzure | line 172 to line 1409 is suspicious to me |
| 16:51.28 | brlcad | hehe |
| 16:51.41 | brlcad | that's still pretty cool |
| 16:52.03 | brlcad | but yeah, should not need to individually list all commands like that |
| 16:52.23 | brlcad | that's the ged -exec infrastructure task that someone else proposed |
| 16:52.46 | brlcad | so you'd just bind to one command like libged.ged_exec(self.ged_pointer) |
| 16:52.52 | kanzure | for method in methods: setattr(GED, method.name, generate_function_for_executing(getattr(ged, method.name))) |
| 16:53.16 | kanzure | and then generate_function_for_executing would return a function that calls self.execute_command() |
| 16:53.55 | kanzure | oh, what would ged_pointer be? |
| 16:54.10 | *** join/#brlcad gaganjyot (~gagan@101.215.191.250) |
| 16:56.13 | hoiji | brlcad: a gentle reminder about my proposal !! |
| 16:57.07 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD Wiki:Richajain1912 * 6873 /wiki/User:Richajain1912/GSOC2014/: /* Tools available for conversion between Wiki to Docbook and Vice-Versa: */ |
| 16:58.35 | brlcad | basically, that python interface is currently implementing the binding layer that should exist on the C side |
| 16:59.13 | brlcad | push that execute_command() down into libged, then it becomes a pass through |
| 17:11.11 | *** join/#brlcad devinder (~devinder@202.164.53.122) |
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| 17:23.52 | albertcoder | brlcad: I have just read your reply to my Introduction on mailing list. Thanks! for a warm welcome |
| 17:32.13 | albertcoder | brlcad:well I have just applied all my senses to the desired requirements of the project,this left me a bit bemused as a few queries arose in my mind |
| 17:34.29 | brlcad | welcome |
| 17:34.52 | brlcad | that's a long way to say you have questions ;) |
| 17:36.17 | *** join/#brlcad merzo (~merzo@user-94-45-58-138-1.skif.com.ua) |
| 17:37.13 | *** join/#brlcad atmacaberke (8bb3cf15@gateway/web/freenode/ip.139.179.207.21) |
| 17:37.22 | atmacaberke | Hello |
| 17:38.26 | atmacaberke | I want to talk abour Summer of Code about Material and Shader Objects |
| 17:39.24 | brlcad | hello atmacaberke |
| 17:39.30 | albertcoder | About what number of data items(fundamental attributes) could I expect? Because that would assist me to decide about the initial layout of the database schema |
| 17:39.56 | brlcad | atmacaberke: you can talk in public, no need for private messages -- sometimes irc responses come minutes or hours later, join and stay ;) |
| 17:40.08 | brlcad | those that can't stay joined should use the mailing list |
| 17:40.31 | atmacaberke | ok, never had used IRC before sorry about that |
| 17:41.09 | atmacaberke | maybe not common in our country dont know |
| 17:41.57 | atmacaberke | well I am a 4.grade computer science in Bilkent University |
| 17:43.35 | atmacaberke | I have heard Google of Summer Code late so I am a little bit late but I want to try my chance to became a part of the community |
| 17:45.12 | brlcad | atmacaberke: have you seen our checklist? |
| 17:46.41 | brlcad | atmacaberke: note the "See IRC if you've never used it before. Ask specific questions and wait!" under #2, see the IRC link |
| 17:47.21 | brlcad | atmacaberke: that's not to scare you off, you will just have a lot of reading and homework to do in order to get up to speed quickly :) |
| 17:47.55 | brlcad | albertcoder: number of attributes? that's hard to say -- did you look at the existing schema? |
| 17:48.17 | *** join/#brlcad hcurtis0010 (4af122ca@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.241.34.202) |
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| 17:51.30 | albertcoder | brlcad: Yeah I did! I feel there is a lot of renovation to be done . |
| 17:57.35 | albertcoder | brlcad:The existing schema has separate distinct tables for each trait of materials which I think would be a sort of burden(more number of tables). |
| 17:59.23 | atmacaberke | Can I have a more detailed information about Material and Shader Objects topic. Do you need variety of Materials like http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ChjRIL91JvgJ:www.yogurt3d.com/materials.html+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=tr&client=firefox-a |
| 18:00.34 | *** join/#brlcad andrei__ (~IceChat77@5-12-220-251.residential.rdsnet.ro) |
| 18:01.42 | *** join/#brlcad deepak_ (~chatzilla@117.220.145.69) |
| 18:02.35 | andrei__ | brlcad: you seen daniel around? |
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| 18:19.46 | *** join/#brlcad albertcoder (~albert@202.164.53.117) |
| 18:23.41 | brlcad | ~seen d_rossberg |
| 18:23.41 | infobot | d_rossberg <~rossberg@66-118-151-70.static.sagonet.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #brlcad, 5d 2h 28m 47s ago, saying: 'the hrt primitive is something where we could practise designing an interface'. |
| 18:23.58 | andrei__ | sweet, thanks |
| 18:24.58 | albertcoder | <PROTECTED> |
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| 18:58.25 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD Wiki:Infinite24 * 0 /wiki/User:Infinite24: |
| 18:59.01 | devinder_ | hello |
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| 18:59.58 | devinder_ | need to discuss about mged to archer command migration project |
| 19:00.34 | *** join/#brlcad javampire (~ncsaba@p4FF73F80.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:02.12 | andrei__ | devinder_ : I think you should just ask what you want to know |
| 19:02.15 | andrei__ | or say what you intend to |
| 19:02.29 | andrei__ | and people will read and answer when they're around |
| 19:02.36 | andrei__ | most devs read the irc logs and get back to you |
| 19:03.35 | devinder_ | okay, thanks for the response |
| 19:04.19 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 60158 brlcad/branches/openscenegraph/src/libfb/if_osg.cpp: Start adding in Tk window controls. |
| 19:04.32 | devinder_ | i want to know about the main commands that I should work upon |
| 19:04.38 | devinder_ | for migration |
| 19:04.48 | devinder_ | from mged to archer |
| 19:05.29 | devinder_ | eg. build pattern tool is one of them |
| 19:09.35 | *** join/#brlcad gaganjyot (~gagan@49.138.97.173) |
| 19:12.37 | devinder_ | :D |
| 19:12.57 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD Wiki:Foposseleger * 0 /wiki/User:Foposseleger: |
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| 19:17.31 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 60159 brlcad/trunk/regress/repository.sh: Instead of ignoring bu.h, just ignore bu/str.h and bu/log.h |
| 19:20.17 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD Wiki:Foposseleger * 6874 /wiki/User:Foposseleger/GSoC_2014_proposal: Convert Bot to Pipe Project |
| 19:21.36 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD Wiki:Foposseleger * 6875 /wiki/User:Foposseleger/GSoC_2014_proposal: /* Why Me ? */ |
| 19:22.21 | *** join/#brlcad gaganjyot (~gagan@49.138.97.173) |
| 19:26.56 | brlcad | andrei__: thanks, even i he didn't hang around |
| 19:28.13 | *** join/#brlcad gaganjyot (~gagan@49.138.97.173) |
| 19:30.24 | andrei__ | heh, no probl |
| 19:31.20 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD Wiki:Foposseleger * 6876 /wiki/User:Foposseleger/GSoC_2014_proposal: /* Personal Information */ |
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| 19:37.40 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:n_reed * 60160 brlcad/trunk/src/libbrep/intersect.cpp: continue on NULL to save a level of indentation |
| 19:37.55 | javampire | brlcad: hi there, finally there's quite some inflation of GSoC proposals :-) |
| 19:39.12 | javampire | brlcad: I would like to help Raj getting his proposal in shape, but have no experience of what level of detail he needs to get there |
| 19:41.01 | javampire | for the python-brlcad primitive wrapping project I think most of the time will be in fact wrapping the open-nurbs library for the brep primitive :-) |
| 19:41.16 | javampire | all the rest will be much easier |
| 19:46.05 | *** join/#brlcad raj12lnm (ca4ead12@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.78.173.18) |
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| 19:51.31 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD Wiki:Foposseleger * 6877 /wiki/User:Foposseleger/GSoC_2014_proposal: /* Background Information */ |
| 19:52.49 | *** join/#brlcad raj12lnm (ca4ead12@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.78.173.18) |
| 19:53.28 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:n_reed * 60161 brlcad/trunk/src/libbrep/intersect.cpp: use references to simplify access to polylines |
| 19:54.21 | *** join/#brlcad leger (~gilles@195.24.220.134) |
| 19:54.26 | raj12lnm | Hi javampire, sean |
| 19:54.45 | javampire | Hi Raj :-) |
| 19:55.28 | leger | Just found out about gsoc from my cousin who coded with you guys last year and would be enthused in implementing the bot to pipe converter |
| 19:55.40 | leger | just wish to know if this project has been taken already |
| 19:55.45 | leger | Ch3ck: u der? |
| 19:56.00 | raj12lnm | brlcad : I saw your email and responded. |
| 19:56.10 | *** join/#brlcad albertcoder (~albert@202.164.53.117) |
| 19:56.17 | raj12lnm | javampire : do you have any comments to make about my proposal, time line and others ? |
| 19:56.44 | andrei__ | leger: projects aren't 'already' taken until the decisions are made (in the according period) however, there might be someone more advanced in the project research. brlcad can help you with that, if you'll stick around, he'll answer sooner or later |
| 19:56.55 | javampire | raj12lnm: yes, I'm just answering your mail |
| 19:58.08 | leger | thanks: andrei__ would hang around ;) just posted a question on the mailing list so I don't know how soon responses are done |
| 19:58.32 | javampire | leger: the standard answer is that if there can be more proposals accepted in the same topic if well researched and promising candidates ! |
| 19:59.06 | leger | thanks javampire guess i should do my research then ;) |
| 19:59.13 | javampire | yep |
| 20:00.43 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD Wiki:Foposseleger * 6878 /wiki/User:Foposseleger/GSoC_2014_proposal: /* Programming Background */ |
| 20:01.14 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD Wiki:Foposseleger * 6879 /wiki/User:Foposseleger/GSoC_2014_proposal: /* Convert Bot to Pipe GSoC Project Proposal */ |
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| 20:07.24 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD Wiki:Foposseleger * 6880 /wiki/User:Foposseleger/GSoC_2014_proposal: /* Programming Background */ |
| 20:07.39 | raj12lnm | javampire : It was interesting that brlcad (sean) mentioned about breaking the implementation of a primitive into further steps. |
| 20:07.55 | raj12lnm | javampire : can you guide me ? |
| 20:08.05 | javampire | I guess he meant explicitly mentioning the deliverables |
| 20:08.32 | javampire | and the BREP - I answered shortly in the mail, just a moment |
| 20:08.58 | raj12lnm | javampire : ok regarding a list. |
| 20:09.34 | javampire | raj12lnm: OK, I've sent it out - |
| 20:09.49 | raj12lnm | I will just make the changes. |
| 20:10.23 | javampire | so, I see the BREP as the biggest chunk of work, and to get it right you will likely need to have a look at the open-nurbs library |
| 20:11.55 | raj12lnm | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:11.58 | *** part/#brlcad devman (c318d242@gateway/web/freenode/ip.195.24.210.66) |
| 20:12.10 | javampire | sure you will :-) |
| 20:12.18 | raj12lnm | javampire : what do you suggest the best I should do ? |
| 20:12.28 | javampire | you don't need to do the work now, just estimate what needs to be done and write down your plan |
| 20:12.28 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD Wiki:Foposseleger * 6881 /wiki/User:Foposseleger/GSoC_2014_proposal: /* Project Information */ |
| 20:13.09 | javampire | just show you have a good idea about how you will do it |
| 20:13.20 | raj12lnm | regarding brep and nurb, right ? |
| 20:13.24 | javampire | and list the deliverables |
| 20:13.33 | javampire | yes, and the rest too |
| 20:13.33 | brlcad | leger: welcome |
| 20:13.42 | brlcad | leger: who's your cousin |
| 20:14.07 | leger | brlcad: thanks Nyah Check |
| 20:14.22 | brlcad | leger: aha |
| 20:14.26 | brlcad | very good |
| 20:14.57 | brlcad | what's he up to, haven't heard a peep from him lately? |
| 20:15.18 | brlcad | busy applying to another gsoc org? |
| 20:15.29 | raj12lnm | is looking at open nurbs library |
| 20:15.44 | javampire | raj12lnm: did you already have a look at the src/other/openNURBS subdir of brlcad ? |
| 20:15.47 | leger | brlcad: yeah he wants to work on Java |
| 20:16.03 | leger | so looks like he's looking for a Java project for GSoC |
| 20:16.06 | brlcad | that's a shame :) |
| 20:16.21 | andrei__ | java, or that idea? :)) |
| 20:16.28 | brlcad | yes |
| 20:16.37 | zero_level | brlcad : I would want to work on BRL-CAD ;) |
| 20:16.42 | leger | well he says we wants to do some java coding ;) have no idea |
| 20:17.52 | brlcad | zero_level: you've got a lot of work ahead of you, I'd think .. haven't heard/seen anything from you yet and we're on the deadline |
| 20:17.56 | raj12lnm | is looking at it. |
| 20:18.02 | brlcad | proposals are evaluated on their own merit, not past performance |
| 20:18.07 | javampire | raj12lnm: src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_geometry.h |
| 20:18.25 | brlcad | andrei__: here is better ;) |
| 20:18.26 | zero_level | hi raj12lnm |
| 20:18.35 | andrei__ | oh, okay |
| 20:18.36 | zero_level | I hope my advise worked for you. |
| 20:18.44 | zero_level | Looks like you have put great hard work. |
| 20:19.00 | zero_level | brlcad : I have been engaged with my internship. |
| 20:19.16 | zero_level | brlcad : Although I have scribbled with the plans for libicv. |
| 20:19.20 | brlcad | raj12lnm: just do your best, all you can do, right? :) |
| 20:19.28 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:n_reed * 60162 brlcad/trunk/src/libbrep/intersect.cpp: clarify meaning of (i < num_curves) test with bool, and expand comments |
| 20:19.36 | leger | brlcad: i'll try to work on my proposal as soon as possible and get your review before the last day |
| 20:19.37 | andrei__ | brlcad: aside the horrible formatting which will be fixed, could you take a look at my proposal? |
| 20:20.17 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD Wiki:Richajain1912 * 6882 /wiki/User:Richajain1912/GSOC2014/: /* Possible approaches for the project */ |
| 20:21.15 | raj12lnm | Hi zerolevel. |
| 20:21.26 | brlcad | leger: just so you know, I'm not doing any reviews on Thursday afternoon or Friday -- some other mentors may reply though |
| 20:21.33 | brlcad | i'll be on the road |
| 20:21.44 | brlcad | zero_level: internship with whom? |
| 20:21.54 | brlcad | internship is ending? |
| 20:21.56 | zero_level | Xerox Research Center. |
| 20:22.04 | zero_level | yes it ends on May 15. |
| 20:22.07 | brlcad | you should keep working with them :) |
| 20:22.07 | brlcad | ah |
| 20:22.22 | zero_level | yeah I have applied for there software group. |
| 20:22.32 | brlcad | when do you find that out? |
| 20:22.43 | brlcad | that's terrible timing... |
| 20:22.44 | zero_level | I have been interviewed. |
| 20:22.49 | zero_level | chances are meek though. |
| 20:22.50 | brlcad | so any day? |
| 20:23.06 | brlcad | or not for weeks? |
| 20:23.10 | leger | brlcad: well my english is not very good hope its not a problem |
| 20:23.25 | brlcad | leger: what's your native language? |
| 20:23.38 | leger | well our country is bilingual |
| 20:23.49 | leger | i grew up in the french speaking zone of cameroon |
| 20:23.49 | brlcad | i didn't ask about your country ;) |
| 20:24.01 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD Wiki:Richajain1912 * 6883 /wiki/User:Richajain1912/GSOC2014/: /* Past Experiences */ |
| 20:24.02 | leger | so french |
| 20:24.04 | *** join/#brlcad albertcoder (~albert@202.164.53.117) |
| 20:24.05 | brlcad | okay |
| 20:24.30 | brlcad | I can understand a little written, but cannot write it |
| 20:24.39 | brlcad | *very little :) |
| 20:24.48 | leger | francais? |
| 20:25.07 | brlcad | oui |
| 20:25.19 | raj12lnm | javampire : I found that file |
| 20:25.31 | *** join/#brlcad devman (c318d242@gateway/web/freenode/ip.195.24.210.66) |
| 20:25.31 | leger | ah ouais tres bien brlcad tu n'est pas si male |
| 20:25.39 | raj12lnm | would you want me to look a certain point ? |
| 20:25.41 | leger | en francais |
| 20:26.02 | brlcad | leger: that just means it'll take you a bit longer to get going as there is a lot of reading and discussion involved |
| 20:26.11 | brlcad | more work for you, but not a problem if you are selected |
| 20:26.13 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD Wiki:124.125.157.175 * 6884 /wiki/User:Richajain1912/GSOC2014/: |
| 20:26.24 | brlcad | no bearing on getting selected assuming your proposal can be understood |
| 20:26.30 | leger | merci brlcad would work on my english |
| 20:27.22 | andrei__ | regarding the primitives for the coreinterface |
| 20:27.30 | javampire | raj12lnm: well you need to identify the parts which need to be wrapped for the BREP primitive |
| 20:27.43 | brlcad | leger: merci |
| 20:27.55 | raj12lnm | javampire : ok. |
| 20:28.06 | raj12lnm | javmpire : can I take a days time ? |
| 20:28.15 | gaganjyot | brlcad: I looked into sketcher |
| 20:28.17 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD Wiki:Richajain1912 * 6885 /wiki/User:Richajain1912/GSOC2014/: /* Tools available for conversion between Wiki to Docbook and Vice-Versa: */ |
| 20:28.29 | gaganjyot | BRL-CAD sketcher |
| 20:28.37 | gaganjyot | and I felt kernel can be completely used |
| 20:28.49 | gaganjyot | hence it will add for move, copy, scale operations |
| 20:28.54 | javampire | Raj: sure, it's not easy... |
| 20:29.07 | javampire | but please ask questions on the mailing list if you get in trouble ? |
| 20:29.17 | andrei__ | daniel mentioned bot and pipe, aside of that, I was thinking of finishing/writing hrt, sph |
| 20:29.18 | brlcad | gaganjyot: brl-cad's sketcher is crap |
| 20:29.27 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD Wiki:Richajain1912 * 6886 /wiki/User:Richajain1912/GSOC2014/: /* Possible approaches for the project */ |
| 20:29.31 | brlcad | that's going to get completely replaced some day (perhaps with librecad) |
| 20:29.45 | gaganjyot | thats what I am saying |
| 20:29.48 | javampire | brlcad: what about SVG import ? |
| 20:29.51 | andrei__ | and perhaps one more, depending on how progress is at midterm |
| 20:29.54 | andrei__ | how does that sound? |
| 20:29.56 | brlcad | the way to integrate, would be mapping our sketch object to the kernel in code, not userland |
| 20:30.01 | gaganjyot | the total kernel will be added |
| 20:30.20 | gaganjyot | what source we can keep from the old sketcher is the way it is snapping the points |
| 20:30.22 | raj12lnm | ok. |
| 20:30.42 | brlcad | gaganjyot: the question I'd have is whether the LC kernel can represent all of our sketch constructs (e.g., bspline curves, nurbs curves) |
| 20:30.43 | gaganjyot | and the display manager |
| 20:30.51 | brlcad | javampire: what about it |
| 20:31.01 | javampire | for sketches |
| 20:31.03 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 60163 brlcad/branches/openscenegraph/src/mged/CMakeLists.txt: Make mged's dm-osg file a cpp file |
| 20:31.19 | gaganjyot | brlcad: if you ask at this time answer is No |
| 20:31.23 | gaganjyot | :( |
| 20:31.31 | javampire | brlcad: is there a need at all to edit sketches in BRL-CAD ? |
| 20:31.33 | brlcad | andrei__: what do you mean by finishing them? |
| 20:31.38 | gaganjyot | but dli is working on it |
| 20:31.50 | gaganjyot | implementing the equation solvers |
| 20:31.58 | andrei__ | brlcad: the finishing part is only for hrt, I'm currently writting on it |
| 20:32.01 | brlcad | javampire: that's a project in itself :) |
| 20:32.18 | brlcad | and yes, there's a need, however simplistic |
| 20:32.30 | brlcad | it's a common modeling operation, method of modeling |
| 20:32.37 | gaganjyot | brlcad: atleast we can implement the stuff we have right now |
| 20:32.43 | gaganjyot | circle, arc, line, ellipse |
| 20:32.45 | brlcad | define an outline, extrude, sweep, rotate, etc |
| 20:33.13 | javampire | brlcad: yes, but there are already lots of good software which does it quite well |
| 20:33.23 | javampire | ok, whatever :-) |
| 20:33.42 | brlcad | that's why I suggested that we might just adopt librecad or build something based on it |
| 20:33.55 | brlcad | our focus certainly isn't 2D |
| 20:34.02 | javampire | if at all, there's a need for 3D path editing if sweep will be implemented |
| 20:34.14 | brlcad | absolutely |
| 20:34.45 | javampire | I had some thoughts, but some of that problem is hard to define well |
| 20:34.47 | gaganjyot | brlcad: this kernel can be implemented no doubts |
| 20:34.47 | *** join/#brlcad archivist (~archivist@host81-149-189-98.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 20:34.59 | javampire | I mean the sweep along a 3D path |
| 20:35.09 | brlcad | javampire: right, got that |
| 20:35.36 | javampire | brlcad: I have trouble defining the orientation of the swept part in relation to an arbitrary 3D path |
| 20:35.42 | brlcad | there are just definitely some modeling operations that lend themselves very well to 2D methods |
| 20:35.43 | gaganjyot | but the bspline curves and nurbs |
| 20:35.46 | gaganjyot | may take some time |
| 20:35.55 | brlcad | parametric linear extrusions are a good example |
| 20:36.00 | brlcad | screw threads |
| 20:36.35 | javampire | well a screw thread is a good example, how you define the orientation of the sketch ? The 3D path is a spiral |
| 20:36.40 | brlcad | doesn't make sense (and may even be inaccurate) to define a 3D shape and extrude that when it's intrinsically a 2D shape |
| 20:36.41 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 60164 brlcad/branches/openscenegraph/src/mged/dm-osg.cpp: Add an Osg_fb_open function |
| 20:36.57 | brlcad | the 3D path is a line |
| 20:37.06 | javampire | the swept part is a 2D shape, but how you orient it ? |
| 20:37.12 | brlcad | with a rotation parameter |
| 20:37.20 | javampire | nope, would not work well |
| 20:37.39 | javampire | there's no reference angle |
| 20:37.47 | javampire | what is angle 0 ? |
| 20:37.54 | brlcad | unrotated :) |
| 20:38.03 | brlcad | you define a coordinate space |
| 20:38.09 | javampire | unrotated in reference to what ? |
| 20:38.28 | brlcad | sketches don't exist in a vacuum |
| 20:38.36 | brlcad | they're placed into space and then extruded |
| 20:38.41 | javampire | well it is easy to define a reference cartesian coordinate system, but a line doesn't have an intrinsic angle 0 |
| 20:38.45 | brlcad | so they are have a coordinate frame of reference |
| 20:39.06 | javampire | yes, but unfortunately that coordinate system is hard to use for your shape |
| 20:39.54 | brlcad | you don't use it for editing the sketch, it's fairly irrelevant |
| 20:40.19 | javampire | for the screw for example, the shape has to rotate on the spiral with a given rate, so you would need a rotation _function_ |
| 20:40.30 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 60165 brlcad/branches/openscenegraph/src/mged/attach.c: Now that it's defined, enable Osg_fb_open. Can now successfully raytrace using the osg dm inside MGED. |
| 20:40.37 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD Wiki:Foposseleger * 6887 /wiki/User:Foposseleger/GSoC_2014_proposal: /* Detailed Project Description */ |
| 20:40.39 | brlcad | it's placement it not arbitrary, the user says put it here and orient it, now extrude it and oh, perform 5 rotations per inch while extruding along with 10m path |
| 20:40.48 | javampire | it will be hard to invent a generic solution which is easy to use for all meaningful sweeps |
| 20:41.08 | brlcad | that's exactly why I said "parametric linear extrusions" |
| 20:41.12 | javampire | a spiral is very regular path, but there could be much more complex ones |
| 20:41.16 | brlcad | parametric: a rotation function |
| 20:41.49 | brlcad | that was merely an example of a modeling operation that lends itself to a 2D modeling approach |
| 20:41.53 | javampire | yes, but it's a good example |
| 20:41.54 | brlcad | the 3D methods I've seen are kind of absurd |
| 20:41.57 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD Wiki:Foposseleger * 6888 /wiki/User:Foposseleger/GSoC_2014_proposal: /* Detailed Project Description */ |
| 20:42.58 | brlcad | carving out the threading with a subtraction or creating cylindrical copies that are unioned or some sort of helical surface extrusion |
| 20:44.03 | brlcad | didn't say it's easy to implement, just quasi necessary long-term |
| 20:44.08 | javampire | what I was thinking about is to have the plane normal to the path define the plane of the sketch, but that doesn't say anything about how to orient the sketch in that plane, and there's no natural 0 angle there... |
| 20:45.12 | brlcad | I think you're missing the point that sketches have a frame of reference |
| 20:45.18 | brlcad | they have a position and orientation in 3-space |
| 20:45.29 | brlcad | u-v scaling parameters too |
| 20:45.42 | javampire | yes, but that doesn't make sense for most of the sweeps |
| 20:45.56 | brlcad | why not? |
| 20:46.03 | javampire | for example if you keep the 3D orientation fixed for your screw, it will result in nothing good :-) |
| 20:46.12 | javampire | it has to rotate with the spiral |
| 20:46.19 | *** join/#brlcad FreezingCold (~FreezingC@135.0.41.14) |
| 20:46.52 | teepee | javampire: like so https://gist.githubusercontent.com/t-paul/7171783/raw/ac8e2bf8e96cca745971af2a1e2b9ce5d50d9331/loft-4.png :) |
| 20:47.48 | brlcad | I fail to see how nothing good matters .. if it's exactly what they ask for ;) |
| 20:48.00 | brlcad | so long as there's something useful they can ask for where it is useful |
| 20:48.10 | javampire | teepee: nice |
| 20:48.22 | brlcad | but yeah, actually what openscad does is exactly what I meant by parametric extrusion |
| 20:48.44 | teepee | javampire: thing is that still produces exactly the problems you describe |
| 20:48.49 | javampire | teepee: unfortunately I don't exactly get what happens there... |
| 20:48.50 | brlcad | path(x) is the parametric function |
| 20:49.25 | brlcad | devman: we appreciate open discussions, you're welcome and encouraged to speak up here ;) |
| 20:49.45 | teepee | javampire: it a u-shaped 2D-polygon moved along a 3D-path. |
| 20:49.49 | brlcad | devman: and not intentionally ignoring you, just doing 4 things at once ;) |
| 20:50.10 | teepee | javampire: isn't that what you mean with sweep? |
| 20:50.14 | javampire | ok, I got it now |
| 20:50.24 | javampire | teepee: not exactly |
| 20:51.06 | brlcad | now in our system, the bigger problem is being able to perform a raytrace evaluation of something in a parametric space while guaranteeing solidity properties |
| 20:51.29 | brlcad | since we don't end up with polygons, though that's conceivably a way to punt |
| 20:51.36 | brlcad | microtessellation or something |
| 20:52.08 | teepee | ah, true, the example from the image does produce a polygon mesh |
| 20:52.34 | teepee | but I guess the problem with having one degree of freedom too many is probably the same |
| 20:53.06 | javampire | my question: how is openscad deciding how to orient that U ? |
| 20:53.10 | brlcad | devman: you can write here |
| 20:53.43 | devman | ok. got it. |
| 20:53.54 | teepee | javampire: the prototype code is currently using some formulas from a forum discussion, I'll dig up the link... |
| 20:54.08 | brlcad | devman: now you can repeat what you said so others know what you're talking about ;) |
| 20:54.13 | teepee | javampire: i think the latest version would produce a twist for that exact sprial path |
| 20:54.28 | andrei__ | brlcad: when you answer, can you write on private, it's difficult to find the answer a significant chat volume |
| 20:54.31 | javampire | teepee: I see it is always in the plane which contains the Z axis and the current point on the path - but that's not something "natural" |
| 20:54.36 | *** join/#brlcad vladbogo_ (~vlad@79.115.29.173) |
| 20:54.41 | andrei__ | in a* |
| 20:55.10 | brlcad | andrei__: what did you mean by "finishing" hrt and sph? |
| 20:55.35 | javampire | teepee: actually it is natural, it is the plane normal to the path in that point |
| 20:55.42 | andrei__ | brlcad: I only meant finishing hrt as I'm currently writing on it |
| 20:55.50 | teepee | javampire: yes, the original code was a bit targeted at those spiral forms so it could not even cope with a simple closed donut shape (moving a 2D circle around 3D-circle path) |
| 20:56.10 | javampire | teepee: but: who says that the U should not be upside down ? |
| 20:56.22 | *** join/#brlcad vladbogo_ (~vlad@79.115.29.173) |
| 20:56.34 | teepee | javampire: right, but it still can twist around the path normal without any further restriction |
| 20:56.44 | javampire | yes, that's exactly my point |
| 20:56.47 | andrei__ | so, on short: finish hrt,migrate kernel , bot, pipe, sph |
| 20:56.54 | andrei__ | and probably one more, depending on mid term |
| 20:57.02 | devman | Hi, GSoC 2014 aspirant here. Would love to work on materials website. I would not like to start from scratch (that's why there's open source), however, I would like to have access to and know the state of the "proof-of-concept web work" that has already been done, so I know from where and with what I am starting with. |
| 20:57.14 | teepee | javampire: yup, that's why I thought same root problem :) |
| 20:58.16 | brlcad | andrei__: still not following what you mean ... what are you "writing on it"? |
| 20:58.42 | javampire | teepee: what happens if you want to sweep the same shape along a spiral around the x axis ? |
| 20:58.50 | brlcad | andrei__: you mean writing details into you proposal? |
| 20:59.02 | andrei__ | no, I mean implementing the actual class |
| 20:59.05 | andrei__ | with basic functions |
| 20:59.07 | javampire | teepee: whitout swapping axes in the shape :-) |
| 20:59.12 | brlcad | andrei__: sph is not implemented? |
| 20:59.34 | teepee | javampire: ahh, there it is http://forum.openscad.org/slow-render-tp6556p6656.html |
| 20:59.39 | andrei__ | I'll take a look again, one sec |
| 21:00.09 | brlcad | andrei__: hrt isn't a priority at all |
| 21:00.23 | andrei__ | I know, the point of it was to pratice class design |
| 21:00.43 | teepee | javampire: hmm, let me see... |
| 21:00.46 | andrei__ | but if you believe there'd be a better example, with usability |
| 21:00.48 | brlcad | ell, tgc, bot, torus, pipe, brep, ... the primitives on our sheet |
| 21:01.03 | brlcad | andrei__: practice on something more useful ;) |
| 21:01.09 | andrei__ | alright |
| 21:01.22 | andrei__ | in your opinion, what's the easiest primitive from those you mentioned |
| 21:01.32 | brlcad | sph/ell |
| 21:01.49 | andrei__ | Ell is implemented |
| 21:01.58 | andrei__ | so that leaves sph, I'll have to check again |
| 21:02.06 | brlcad | sph is technically an ell |
| 21:02.15 | andrei__ | with some constraints, yeah |
| 21:02.36 | andrei__ | but from what he told me, Daniel wants to avoid using a class(like sph) inheriting ell |
| 21:02.36 | brlcad | talk to daniel about whether he wants to subclass ell or even have sph at all |
| 21:02.46 | brlcad | okay, there ya go :) |
| 21:02.54 | brlcad | so does he want sph? |
| 21:03.04 | andrei__ | and that all objects should inherit the object class(like they do now) |
| 21:03.09 | andrei__ | he didn't tell me either |
| 21:03.28 | brlcad | you need to figure that out to proceed with sph, so maybe start with torus instead |
| 21:04.08 | javampire | brlcad: in python-brlcad I've let Sphere inherit Ellipsoid |
| 21:04.15 | brlcad | any of these with curvature should be easy: http://brlcad.org/tmp/primitives/Primitives2_grouped_with_labels.png |
| 21:04.33 | brlcad | javampire: no problmes from me on that :) |
| 21:04.55 | andrei__ | do you know where I could get some more info(aside of from daniel) related to migrating the coreinterface to a geometry kernel |
| 21:05.00 | brlcad | that's what I'd expect at least until we start storing spheres as non-ellipsoid entities |
| 21:05.29 | andrei__ | last time I talked to him, it wasn't completely sure if we should convert the interface to a geometry kernel or not |
| 21:05.31 | brlcad | andrei__: "migrating" could mean pretty much anything .. it IS a geoemtry kernel (just incomplete) |
| 21:05.56 | brlcad | he doesn't want to mess up the apps he's already got using it |
| 21:06.16 | javampire | python makes that nice: when reading it back from the DB, if all radii are the same, it will have the property "radius", otherwise it won't |
| 21:06.33 | brlcad | that is cool |
| 21:06.44 | andrei__ | but having a 'kernel' isn't supposed to make it easier to build apps on top of it? |
| 21:07.12 | brlcad | i'd rather store them with just one 8-byte value instead of three 24-byte vectors |
| 21:08.18 | andrei__ | I think the focus of the discussion was if it should depend on brlcad or not |
| 21:11.06 | brlcad | I though the question was whether it depended on brlcad's sources, which it should not (i.e., like it is now) |
| 21:11.26 | andrei__ | yes |
| 21:11.48 | andrei__ | that's my understanding of 'migrating the kernel' |
| 21:12.01 | teepee | javampire: just changing the 3D path http://imgur.com/I4yxlTU |
| 21:12.48 | brlcad | andrei__: er, still not following -- someone is suggesting moving coreinterface sources into brl-cad? |
| 21:12.57 | brlcad | I don't see a reason to do that |
| 21:13.09 | brlcad | I see lots o reasons for not doing that |
| 21:13.13 | andrei__ | sorry, I'll rephrase |
| 21:13.39 | andrei__ | the idea was to make coreinterface independent to brl-cad |
| 21:13.54 | andrei__ | and that not everyone stated an opinion on this aspect yet |
| 21:13.59 | andrei__ | (as in, we should do it or we shouldn't) |
| 21:14.12 | javampire | teepee: try with a square path |
| 21:14.22 | brlcad | but what does independent mean different from how it is now? |
| 21:14.37 | teepee | javampire: uh, never tried that before :) |
| 21:14.41 | brlcad | it's already dependent and independent depending on what you're talking about |
| 21:15.01 | andrei__ | I think the idea was to depend just on a library(like a dll) |
| 21:15.09 | brlcad | which is how it is now |
| 21:15.28 | javampire | teppee: well that's an interesting example, as it's derivative is discontinuous |
| 21:15.31 | andrei__ | hm, I remember asking for the blrcad source dir |
| 21:15.34 | andrei__ | when I installed it |
| 21:15.35 | brlcad | that's a dependency, so saying it's "independent" is kind of misleading :) |
| 21:15.54 | andrei__ | I thought the point of it was to make it independent to any external source files |
| 21:15.59 | andrei__ | so you just link it with that library |
| 21:16.01 | teepee | javampire: it will certainly also produce a broken mesh right now, but I wonder how it looks like |
| 21:16.09 | andrei__ | but from what you're saying that's already done |
| 21:16.12 | javampire | teepee: the normal plane will have a "jump" in it |
| 21:16.37 | brlcad | andrei__: yes, that's where it currently sits |
| 21:16.42 | andrei__ | so I'll probably have to ask Daniel what he meant by that. Or, do you know? |
| 21:17.02 | brlcad | he might have been referring to how he builds a libbrlcad with a subset of symbols |
| 21:17.56 | andrei__ | if it's just linking to a library, I don't see that as a huge complication |
| 21:18.15 | brlcad | I think you can just assume that's the way it's going to be, regardless of what's going on now |
| 21:18.35 | andrei__ | anyway, related to the svn place for it |
| 21:18.38 | brlcad | would avoid saying it's "independent" though ;) |
| 21:18.43 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:n_reed * 60166 brlcad/trunk/src/libbrep/intersect.cpp: add clarifying bools and tweak some comments |
| 21:19.06 | andrei__ | I don't think it's a good idea to move into the trunc, at least from the brl-cad newbie perspective |
| 21:19.28 | andrei__ | it already has a large number of folders/files and tools |
| 21:19.30 | brlcad | I'd argue that's a terrible idea so lets stop talking about that ;) |
| 21:19.38 | brlcad | i don't think anyone has suggested that |
| 21:19.48 | andrei__ | there was a mail on the mailinglist |
| 21:19.50 | andrei__ | anyway, ok |
| 21:20.28 | andrei__ | Initially, I planed to handle the kernel related part before coding starts |
| 21:21.07 | andrei__ | or not get more than a couple of weeks into coding. Does that sound reasonable? |
| 21:27.02 | andrei__ | brlcad: anyway, you've been of great help. Thank you! |
| 21:27.26 | teepee | javampire: http://imgur.com/IO5FNsT |
| 21:27.44 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 60167 (brlcad/trunk/NEWS brlcad/trunk/regress/nirt.sh): Fix regression testing for nirt given change in -h/-H options. |
| 21:28.37 | devman | Hi. how do i get the list of tools that do geometric analyses (e.g rtweight), These tools will pull materials data and use for calculations. |
| 21:31.21 | javampire | teepee: ok, so some smoothing is going on... |
| 21:31.38 | javampire | which is nice... |
| 21:33.08 | javampire | teepee: the shape you "loft" is a 2D or has some volume ? |
| 21:34.09 | javampire | the problem with the current sketch of BRL-CAD is that it is a pure 2D structure, with only 2 coordinates |
| 21:34.57 | javampire | so it has to no volume, and it's coordinates need to be mapped to 3D coordinate space |
| 21:35.18 | teepee | javampire: the base is really 2D only |
| 21:35.32 | javampire | hmm, that's then strange |
| 21:35.36 | teepee | yup, internally it even has only x/y coordinates |
| 21:37.55 | brlcad | devman: hang around and you'll get lots of feedback :) |
| 21:38.23 | brlcad | devman: gqa/g_qa and rtweight are the two main ones |
| 21:38.30 | javampire | teepee: what happens if you have a discontinuous path ? |
| 21:38.49 | brlcad | any of the optical raytracers can use the materials database if there's a way to associate textures or color/optical information |
| 21:39.12 | javampire | like 2 circles at a distance from each other ? |
| 21:39.18 | teepee | javampire: It would just stretch the polygons as it really generates a mesh |
| 21:39.41 | javampire | well my problem is how it orients the 2D shape ? |
| 21:40.03 | javampire | for now the examples seem to orient it in the direction of the center of the path |
| 21:40.28 | javampire | but what if the center of the path is not the same as the center of the sub-paths ? |
| 21:40.31 | brlcad | javampire: the *contents* of a sketch are pure 2D, but it has a 3D position and two vectors to define the orientation |
| 21:40.38 | brlcad | see struct rt_sketch_internal in rtgeom.h |
| 21:40.49 | teepee | javampire: no, it can do also just an open sine curve |
| 21:41.10 | starseeker | hopes the librecad guys are aware of psketcher... |
| 21:41.37 | javampire | teepee: can you try that with the 2 circles as path ? at some distance from each other |
| 21:41.57 | teepee | javampire: that will just produce a cylinder |
| 21:42.40 | devman | Thanks. I understand rtweight calculates the weight of a geometry model. what does gqa/g_qa mean and do? |
| 21:43.10 | javampire | teepee: I don't think so, next to each other's _sides_, 2 circles in the same plane |
| 21:43.28 | javampire | at some distance, not touching |
| 21:44.05 | javampire | my intention is that the center of the whole figure is outside the circles |
| 21:44.19 | teepee | javampire: it does, the path(t) is called x times depending on how many slices should be calculated |
| 21:44.34 | teepee | javampire: so if I say 2 slices it will call twice with t = 0 and t = 1 |
| 21:44.39 | javampire | yes, but how it decides how to orient the path |
| 21:44.44 | teepee | javampire: which is essentially linear-extrude |
| 21:44.52 | javampire | the shape, sorry |
| 21:44.54 | teepee | javampire: path tangent |
| 21:45.12 | javampire | that's for the plane of the shape, but how it orients it in the plane ? |
| 21:45.21 | teepee | it calculates the tangent at the point t of the path(t) function |
| 21:45.39 | javampire | yes, and that's the normal to the plane of the shape |
| 21:45.51 | javampire | but why not rotate the shape around that normal ? |
| 21:46.07 | javampire | why pointing inwards and not the other way around ? |
| 21:46.37 | teepee | with the current code, I'd say randomly defined by the order of the rotate calculations |
| 21:46.39 | javampire | the U is looking inwards - why not the other way around |
| 21:47.00 | javampire | yes, and that's not satisfying for me |
| 21:47.11 | javampire | I want to have a well defined 0 angle |
| 21:47.15 | teepee | javampire: https://github.com/t-paul/openscad/blob/loft/src/PolySetCGALEvaluator_LoftNode.cc#L99 |
| 21:47.26 | teepee | javampire: yup, that's what I'd like to solve too :) |
| 21:48.01 | teepee | javampire: as the current code does not produce the nice helix shape but starts to twist it |
| 21:50.33 | teepee | javampire: the first prototype could do the helix nicely as it did reference to the ground plane |
| 21:50.54 | teepee | but that of cause produces more twisting in all other cases |
| 21:51.03 | javampire | I guess the only solution is to attach to the 3D path reference coordinate system and orientation function for each point |
| 21:51.54 | javampire | teepee: forget what I just said, it makes no sense :-) |
| 21:53.13 | teepee | javampire: a later malinglist post suggested to look at Frenet frames, but I'm not sure my math is good enough for that ;) |
| 21:53.21 | teepee | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frenet-Serret_formulas |
| 21:55.25 | javampire | I thought about that but it fails for straight lines |
| 21:56.40 | *** join/#brlcad bogdan_91 (~bogdan@p16.eregie.pub.ro) |
| 21:56.56 | javampire | teepee: the derivative of the tangent is 0 for a straight line, and we're back to square 0 |
| 21:58.06 | teepee | yeah, I don't know if it's maybe enough to special case that |
| 21:58.26 | javampire | how ? |
| 21:59.32 | teepee | check if the path is a straight line and use a defined rotation from maybe z-unit-vector to the path direction |
| 22:00.13 | javampire | there's no well defined rotation for an arbitrary straight line, as you have no reference angle |
| 22:01.05 | javampire | if you pick one axis, it fails for lines parallel to that axis |
| 22:01.23 | teepee | if I recall correctly, when limiting euler angle rotation you'll get a single solution for rotation |
| 22:01.35 | javampire | if you say you pick the axis with biggest component, it fails to be continuous (in case of composite paths) |
| 22:02.09 | javampire | yes, but will you get the same shape if you change a little your line ? |
| 22:02.47 | javampire | I mean you parameterize your line, and then change some small amount in the parameters - will you get the same shape moved a small amount, or a radically different shape ? |
| 22:02.53 | teepee | for straight line, I think so. but I don't know if there are more special cases |
| 22:03.32 | javampire | I couldn't think of any scheme where that's the case, there's always some kind of discontinuity where a small change results in a jump in the result |
| 22:03.35 | teepee | there will be one point where it flips direction I guess |
| 22:05.14 | andrei__ | what irc client do you guys use? |
| 22:05.29 | teepee | uses quassel |
| 22:07.20 | andrei__ | thanks |
| 22:11.05 | javampire | teepee: I'm not sure this is relevant, but see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimbal_lock |
| 22:11.39 | javampire | maybe it is simply so that the orientation can't be well defined in all cases |
| 22:11.54 | javampire | at least not using angles |
| 22:13.03 | teepee | yeah, I think that's where the limiting of angles comes from |
| 22:14.05 | teepee | as far as I understand it, you'll get a gimbal lock when your 3rd rotation aligns with a previous one, so you loose the ability to turn into all possible directions |
| 22:16.35 | javampire | as I understand it, the lock happens when the axis of rotation is one of the (gimbal) coordinate axes |
| 22:17.55 | javampire | and one of the other gimbals happen to be on that axis too |
| 22:18.02 | teepee | I watched some explanation videos, any text description did not really work for me :) |
| 22:18.33 | javampire | yes, me too :-) |
| 22:19.35 | javampire | the point is not that you can't turn but that you have 2 different gimbals which can turn and give the same result |
| 22:20.19 | javampire | if you pick the wrong one, you have a problem when the "locked" gimbal needs to turn |
| 22:22.37 | javampire | but I'm not sure this is relevant at all |
| 22:23.43 | javampire | I tend to think that for sweeping the path needs a "normal" vector in each point for being usable for sweeping |
| 22:24.20 | javampire | for non-zero curvature that can be calculated, for straight lines must be provided... |
| 22:25.56 | *** join/#brlcad Anaphaxeton (~george@unaffiliated/anaphaxeton) |
| 22:27.20 | javampire | teepee: in fact it could be advantageous to provide a "normal" function for non-zero curvature too, there might be cases where the orientation should not be the Frenet–Serret frame |
| 22:28.29 | javampire | I'm not sure if a screw uses that frame, or if it's oriented by the screw axis |
| 22:28.49 | teepee | javampire: yeah, I thought also it might be ok to have some simple case which catches most path definition |
| 22:29.16 | teepee | and some kind of "advanced mode" where you need to give additional reference information to get the desired result |
| 22:29.21 | javampire | well there's no simple case I'm afraid |
| 22:29.42 | javampire | for straight lines for example there's no way around specifying the orientation |
| 22:30.03 | teepee | as soon as at least one axis value of the path does not change, I'd declare that as simple case :) |
| 22:30.06 | javampire | the problem is that you can't do that in the shape, you must do it in the path |
| 22:30.21 | javampire | if you want to meaningfully parameterize the sweep result |
| 22:30.28 | teepee | means the path is 1d or 2d actually |
| 22:31.00 | javampire | even for that is not straightforward |
| 22:31.26 | javampire | your examples show that if you turn the path, you get different result for the same shape |
| 22:32.11 | javampire | I would expect that I get the same result turned similarly, but still the same result |
| 22:33.10 | javampire | until that is fixed, you can't use a path which has unknowns without extra complicated calculations to re-orient your shape too |
| 22:34.41 | javampire | point is: if you associate the path-normal function to the path itself, it's much easier to get consistent results for the same base shape |
| 22:36.41 | javampire | OK, I'll have to leave now, see you :-) |
| 22:36.52 | teepee | true, that would limits the degrees of freedom enough to get a deterministic result |
| 22:37.10 | teepee | should go to sleep now anyway... :) |
| 22:37.29 | javampire | teepee: what time-zone are you ? |
| 22:38.11 | *** join/#brlcad stirk (~charlie@c-71-56-216-45.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 22:38.38 | teepee | germany |
| 22:38.42 | javampire | me too :-) |
| 22:39.24 | javampire | münchen more precisely |
| 22:39.29 | teepee | hehe, gute nacht :) |
| 22:39.40 | javampire | dir auch :-) |
| 22:39.43 | teepee | is in dresden right now |
| 22:47.00 | *** join/#brlcad ries (~ries@190.9.171.121) |
| 22:49.27 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD Wiki:92.74.235.135 * 6889 /wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: /* Mentors */ added Armin Stebich, LibreCAD mentor |
| 22:49.53 | *** join/#brlcad LordOfBikes (~armin@dslb-092-074-235-135.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 22:59.09 | *** join/#brlcad avinashkaitha93 (af650d3d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.175.101.13.61) |
| 23:37.59 | *** join/#brlcad hcurtis (4af122ca@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.241.34.202) |
| 23:41.49 | hcurtis | Hi. I have questions about BRL-CAD's STEP coverage. |
| 23:42.34 | andrei__ | hcurtis: ask away and stay around |
| 23:42.40 | andrei__ | people will answer when they read it |
| 23:42.59 | andrei__ | devs are around at different times, based on timezone/work schedule etc |
| 23:43.56 | hcurtis | andrei__: Sounds good. Thank you. |
| 23:45.23 | hcurtis | My first question is...what STEP coverage does BRL-CAD have right now? |
| 23:47.49 | andrei__ | if you have more |
| 23:47.51 | andrei__ | just post all of them |
| 23:49.58 | hcurtis | andrei__: Ok |
| 23:52.04 | hcurtis | Does anyone have any comments about the best tool(s) to validate files to conform to schema (for a STEP exporter)? |
