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| 00:14.29 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 63401 (brlcad/branches/qtged/src/qbrlcad/cadtreemodel.cxx brlcad/branches/qtged/src/qbrlcad/cadtreemodel.h and 2 others): Some cleanup, make the recursion limit a variable. |
| 00:25.33 | starseeker | brlcad: sometime we'll have to benchmark the recursive routines for testing whether something is present in a tree and see what the limiting factor is... whether or not there's some caching mechanism we could use that would provide faster lookups |
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| 01:20.20 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 63402 (brlcad/branches/qtged/src/qbrlcad/cadtreemodel.h brlcad/branches/qtged/src/qbrlcad/cadtreenode.h and 2 others): The full row highlighting is too expensive until we can find a clean way to update the branch drawing without calling heavy-duty signals. |
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| 01:28.46 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 63403 (brlcad/branches/qtged/src/qbrlcad/cadtreemodel.cxx brlcad/branches/qtged/src/qbrlcad/cadtreemodel.h): Seeing what looks like a bit of a performance improvement on a large file with very deep/complex tree structure using a map to cache the dp->internal mappings. |
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| 01:33.36 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 63404 (brlcad/branches/qtged/src/qbrlcad/cadtreemodel.cxx brlcad/branches/qtged/src/qbrlcad/cadtreemodel.h): Go with QHash - at some point benchmarks are probably in order for this... |
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| 03:31.18 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 63405 (brlcad/branches/qtged/src/qbrlcad/cadtreemodel.cxx brlcad/branches/qtged/src/qbrlcad/cadtreemodel.h): Wasn't decrementing depth after calling subtree |
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| 14:06.27 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:bob1961 * 63406 (brlcad/trunk/src/mged/chgview.c brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/illum.tcl and 2 others): This fixes an issue in mged where the matrix selection was broken. |
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| 15:45.39 | Stragus | Such suspense for Philae, they don't say much in the control room but the facial expressions aren't reassuring |
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| 15:53.23 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD Wiki:Deepinder1010 * 0 /wiki/User:Deepinder1010: |
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| 15:59.53 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 63408 brlcad/branches/qtged/src/qbrlcad/cadtreenode.h: Don't need this variable anymore |
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| 16:04.08 | Stragus | WOOHOO! |
| 16:04.31 | Stragus | Philae has landed! |
| 16:17.12 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:carlmoore * 63409 (brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/pix-alias.xml brlcad/trunk/src/util/pix-alias.c): implement ? for help, although opterr is turned off; shorten the pix-alias.c source code; in manpage, put -s AFTER the separate descriptions of width and height |
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| 16:32.21 | andrei_ | hello |
| 16:33.41 | andrei_ | brlcad: pm me when you're around |
| 16:35.30 | andrei_ | just a sec, to figure how to open a chat window on this web client |
| 16:36.41 | brlcad | starseeker: agreed. but know that just using recursion itself is likely substantial performance factor, caching aside |
| 16:52.07 | ``Erik | brlcad: not seeing a way to attach my gci acct to the project, is that admin only? (username is erikg if it is) |
| 16:52.23 | ``Erik | (w00t, esa caught a comet!) |
| 16:58.24 | Stragus | Perhaps next time, we can install solar-powered ion thrusters and drag it back to Earth's orbit for close-up study |
| 17:03.30 | brlcad | ``Erik: looks like the connections interface is not yet enabled |
| 17:03.38 | brlcad | I can invite |
| 17:04.28 | ``Erik | aren't ion thrusters super low force? I would imagine it'd take a really long time to noticably change a significant comets trajectory |
| 17:04.41 | ``Erik | brlcad: okie |
| 17:06.09 | Stragus | Yup, but ion thrusters have a very high efficiency |
| 17:06.24 | Stragus | Which is what you need when all you have is solar power, and time on your hands |
| 17:09.22 | ``Erik | looks like the ds4g ion thruster uses 250kw to generate 2.5 newtons, that's an awful lot of juice and solar is only useful fairly close to the sun :) be interesting to figure out the graphs |
| 17:10.52 | Stragus | Well, it sure beats chemical rockets if you don't need a high thrust |
| 17:11.48 | Stragus | 250kw does sound like... a lot of solar panels |
| 17:20.53 | gaganjyot | I also registered as mentor but could not find a way to select organisation |
| 17:23.16 | gaganjyot | BTW brlcad what to do next ? |
| 17:23.34 | gaganjyot | I created the clone of proc-db/sketch.c |
| 17:23.39 | gaganjyot | and uploaded on github |
| 17:23.46 | gaganjyot | what next ? |
| 17:29.32 | fenn | the nasa deep space missions are talking about 30kW solar panels, not 250 |
| 17:38.54 | Ch3ck_ | is trying to get some kids do GCI in Cameroon |
| 17:40.54 | brlcad | gaganjyot: you mean what next for the kernel integration? |
| 17:43.19 | brlcad | gaganjyot: next for that is probably to write a function that takes our old struct description and converts it to a librecad object ... OR ... create an mk_sketch2 that takes the librecad container and start replacing src/librt/primitives/sketch/* to read/write from it |
| 17:43.52 | sofat | hello brlcad |
| 17:44.03 | sofat | i upload my plugin on github |
| 17:44.08 | sofat | there is link |
| 17:44.09 | sofat | https://github.com/sofathitesh/brlcad-xml |
| 17:46.09 | sofat | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:58.07 | brlcad | sofat: awesome, thanks ... I'd like to try and get this integrated before the end of the month |
| 17:58.27 | *** join/#brlcad gaganjyot (~gaganjyot@124.253.230.195) |
| 17:58.41 | sofat | thanks a lot |
| 17:59.52 | sofat | brlcad, i have just sent a mail before your reply in mailing list regarding this. |
| 18:00.49 | sofat | i have read mail in mailing list that regarding convert existing website into wordpress |
| 18:01.31 | sofat | and i am interested in contributing to this work |
| 18:02.20 | brlcad | sofat: really glad to hear it, lots of work |
| 18:02.26 | brlcad | how much time do you have through the end of the month? |
| 18:02.59 | brlcad | and have you seen the stuff maths22_ has been working on with beta.brlcad.org? |
| 18:03.47 | sofat | my exam is start on 25 nov to 20 dec. |
| 18:04.35 | sofat | but I can devote sufficient time before and after the exams |
| 18:05.17 | sofat | No I have not seen maths22's work |
| 18:05.55 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:brlcad * 63410 brlcad/trunk/TODO: take a page from openscad, to implement minkowski sum and convex hull functionality |
| 18:05.56 | brlcad | his work is based on last year's GCI style work |
| 18:06.25 | sofat | GCI style work means? |
| 18:06.36 | brlcad | I recommend looking at last year's GCI tasks related to website work: https://www.google-melange.com/gci/org/google/gci2013/brlcad under completed tasks |
| 18:06.42 | brlcad | GCI => Google Code In |
| 18:06.57 | brlcad | lots of young students working on small 2-hour tasks |
| 18:07.06 | brlcad | one task was to create a WP theme, for example |
| 18:07.14 | brlcad | another to create a style guide |
| 18:07.59 | sofat | alright I will have a look at these |
| 18:07.59 | brlcad | there were several WP theme tasks completed, for example, and maths22_ worked on merging them in at beta.brlcad.org/wp/ |
| 18:08.31 | brlcad | beta.brlcad.org/wiki/ has MW updated with the new them and content imported |
| 18:08.53 | brlcad | check that all out and talk with maths22 on how to help |
| 18:09.01 | maths22 | sofat: could you explain what your plugin does? |
| 18:09.24 | maths22 | It looks like it is pretty cool, but I'm not quite sure what is going on with it |
| 18:09.24 | sofat | hello maths22 |
| 18:09.53 | sofat | My plugin works for about us page |
| 18:10.26 | sofat | It shows the articles written in XML using docbook style sheet. |
| 18:11.04 | sofat | and it also uses brlcad xsl style sheet |
| 18:11.35 | sofat | It just represents the XML in HTML |
| 18:11.55 | maths22 | Would it be able to do the same thing to other docbook pages, or would it need to be edited to be able to do that? |
| 18:12.26 | sofat | http://202.164.53.122/~hitesh/wordpress/ it works here |
| 18:13.09 | *** join/#brlcad kesha (~kesha@14.139.122.114) |
| 18:13.25 | sofat | No, it is not required. |
| 18:13.57 | brlcad | which would be huge if suddenly all or our docs are now web-integrated |
| 18:14.10 | gaganjyot | brlcad, any help what is SIZEOF_NETWORK_LONG; |
| 18:14.36 | maths22 | Exactly my idea |
| 18:14.54 | maths22 | It will obviously take some work, but I will eventually try to make that happen |
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| 18:20.26 | sofat | i will check all gci task and then i report tomorrow and day after. |
| 18:26.42 | brlcad | maths22: are you competing in GCI or mentoring or just having fun helping get prepared or all of the above? :) |
| 18:27.30 | brlcad | gaganjyot: that's a symbol set during cmake to the size of a network long variable |
| 18:27.32 | maths22 | Mentoring/helping get prepared |
| 18:27.43 | brlcad | maths22: awesome, okay! |
| 18:27.44 | maths22 | In college, so I can't compete :( |
| 18:28.01 | brlcad | but you can now to GSoC, which is also awesome ;) |
| 18:28.33 | brlcad | maths22: so what's your schedule look like through Nov? leading up to finals comes right after, yes? |
| 18:30.34 | maths22 | For me, finals are the second week of december |
| 18:30.48 | maths22 | Nothing particular (that I remember) in november |
| 18:30.59 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 63411 (brlcad/branches/qtged/src/qbrlcad/CMakeLists.txt brlcad/branches/qtged/src/qbrlcad/main_window.cxx): Start experimenting with a widget to display standard object properties. |
| 18:34.27 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:carlmoore * 63412 (brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/pix-bw.xml brlcad/trunk/src/util/pix-bw.c): minor touch-up to pix-bw man page, including new paragraph for -e; in program, remove [-h] from usage |
| 18:38.13 | kesha | brlcad, hows the setting up pages for GCI 2014 going ? I can give some hand :) |
| 18:45.14 | brlcad | kesha: please do, we need all the help we can get |
| 18:46.16 | kesha | ok. I am creating pages like last year now. |
| 18:46.23 | brlcad | great |
| 18:46.39 | brlcad | you mean new tasks or info pages or what? |
| 18:47.34 | brlcad | you could read over the existing pages and make sure the language is updated, links are correct, add a new section for 2014, etc |
| 18:49.15 | kesha | I will start with info pages. |
| 18:52.48 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD Wiki:KeshaSShah * 7781 /wiki/Google_Code_In/Checklist/2014: Checklist for GCI students |
| 18:53.11 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD Wiki:KeshaSShah * 7782 /wiki/Google_Code_In/2014: Making GCI 2014 announcement |
| 18:53.34 | kesha | Except deuces do we have task page ? |
| 18:55.25 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:carlmoore * 63413 (brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/pix-rle.xml brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/rle-pix.xml): minor touch-up of pix-rle.xml and rle-pix.xml |
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| 18:58.18 | gaganjyot | <brlcad> gaganjyot: next for that is probably to write a function that takes our old struct description and converts it to a librecad object ... |
| 18:58.51 | gaganjyot | brlcad, this task is quite simple, just got rt sketch describe function from primitives/sketch.c |
| 18:59.10 | gaganjyot | instead of printing, I'll get them appended to the kernel |
| 18:59.11 | brlcad | kesha_: dueces is our tasks page, we don't need a separate |
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| 18:59.47 | brlcad | gaganjyot: appended TO the kernel? wouldn't that be FROM the kernel? |
| 19:00.18 | gaganjyot | I mean appended to the document |
| 19:00.59 | gaganjyot | did I get your first task correctly :S |
| 19:01.28 | gaganjyot | you meant to read all the sketch primitives from a sketch_internal struct adn then put them into a LibreCAD container |
| 19:01.36 | gaganjyot | correct ? |
| 19:02.01 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:carlmoore * 63414 brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/bw-rle.xml: simplify the presentation of the example |
| 19:02.56 | kesha_ | Can students start working even before the start of contest if they know potential tasks? (as deuces is a public page) |
| 19:04.07 | gaganjyot | kesha_, how many might be knowing if deuces contains the task we are supposed to provide them with ;) |
| 19:05.34 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD Wiki:KeshaSShah * 7783 /wiki/Google_Code_In/2014: Typo-correction |
| 19:06.38 | kesha_ | gaganjyot, I have but them in GCI 2014 info pages. So I was just wondering ;) |
| 19:08.08 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD Wiki:KeshaSShah * 7784 /wiki/GCI2014: Info page GCI |
| 19:08.32 | brlcad | gaganjyot: yes, you understood correctly |
| 19:09.10 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD Wiki:KeshaSShah * 7785 /wiki/GCI2014: |
| 19:09.17 | brlcad | just that rt_sketch_describe is about display printing, so the idea there would be to convert that function to work with the librecad container (after such a function exists to convert from ours to librecad container) |
| 19:09.51 | brlcad | first step is a migration function, though, ideally two to go bidirectionally |
| 19:10.34 | brlcad | kesha_: they certainly can, but that's also risky in that others can also try to claim the same tasks and they can only claim one task at a time |
| 19:11.30 | brlcad | it wouldn't make much sense to do more than a few tasks in advance, but they certainly can do that |
| 19:12.33 | brlcad | kesha_: perhaps you could try setting up a task tracker? |
| 19:13.18 | brlcad | starseeker: what was the project you came across? |
| 19:13.23 | brlcad | (for task tracking) |
| 19:28.22 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD Wiki:KeshaSShah * 7786 /wiki/Community_Publication_Portal: |
| 19:30.50 | kesha_ | brlcad, I am not sure if I would have enough time to set up a new task tracker. How about having a private google doc shared between all mentors only ? |
| 19:32.01 | kesha_ | brlcad, You can announce this news of selection on brlcad.org .http://brlcad.org/wiki/Community_Publication_Portal#Google_Code_In_2014 is the sample announcement. Just copy-paste it :) |
| 19:32.27 | kesha_ | It seems I don't have rights to add it with my account or else I would have only done it. |
| 19:49.49 | brlcad | kesha_: 12 orgs selected |
| 19:50.35 | brlcad | kesha_: I tried that last year but the problem is the tasks need to have html embedded for proper formatting |
| 19:51.30 | brlcad | kesha_: can you pick one of the other (non-gci) pending announcements to get posted first? |
| 19:51.51 | brlcad | we've done a terrible job posting this past year because we've been so busy |
| 19:51.58 | brlcad | don't want back-to-back gci announcements |
| 20:02.52 | ``Erik | only 12? yowza, I thought that 'mentoring orgs' section was a subset, not the whole thing :D |
| 20:04.36 | brlcad | it's been just 10 every year prior |
| 20:05.50 | brlcad | hopefully having 12 will reduce the load by 20%, unless participation increases by that much too :) |
| 20:09.41 | kesha_ | brlcad, I guess GSoC 14 ? |
| 20:10.53 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD Wiki:KeshaSShah * 7787 /wiki/Community_Publication_Portal: /* Google Code In 2014 */ |
| 20:11.11 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD Wiki:KeshaSShah * 7788 /wiki/GCI2014: |
| 20:11.42 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD Wiki:KeshaSShah * 7789 /wiki/Google_Code_In/2014: |
| 20:13.15 | kesha_ | My bad, I counted 11 excluding BRLCAD ! Corrected it. |
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| 20:39.09 | ``Erik | huh, I'd assumed gci was similar in size to gsoc, didn't realize it was so exclusive O.o neato |
| 20:59.48 | *** join/#brlcad kesha (~kesha@14.139.122.114) |
| 21:11.28 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 63415 (brlcad/branches/qtged/src/qbrlcad/cadstdproperties.cxx brlcad/branches/qtged/src/qbrlcad/cadstdproperties.h): Standard attributes should be there by default - make sure they are visible. |
| 21:13.42 | brlcad | ``Erik: completely different dynamic ... younger kids, tiny tasks ... much more work in advance to define hundreds of tasks, but more rewarding in many ways (they're uber-productive) |
| 21:14.15 | brlcad | there's not really much "mentoring" that goes on .. more tweet-like feedback and sending tasks back to fix problems |
| 21:14.38 | maths22 | kesha: What don't you have permissions to do? |
| 21:15.12 | brlcad | maths22: posting a main website announcement |
| 21:15.21 | brlcad | only a couple people currently have that auth |
| 21:16.24 | maths22 | By the way, we need to deignate some tasks as beginner tasks this year |
| 21:16.35 | maths22 | Each student can only do 2 (I think per org) |
| 21:17.17 | maths22 | kesha: once you have something written up, you can send it to me to post |
| 21:23.09 | brlcad | http://techcrunch.com/2014/11/12/microsoft-makes-visual-studio-free-for-small-teams/?ncid=rss&cps=gravity |
| 21:24.04 | brlcad | maths22: yeah, that's kind of why I'm thinking we should move all the tasks to a better tracking system than the wiki page, something we can integrate with melange's bulk-upload feature |
| 21:26.14 | maths22 | Yep. I can throw something reasonable together |
| 21:26.24 | maths22 | What fields do you want (I will make it take HTML input) |
| 21:46.57 | clock | brlcad, is there an implementaion of BRL-CAD for analog computers? |
| 21:49.37 | ``Erik | heh, adhd coding :D |
| 21:49.39 | brlcad | maths22: there was a tool starseeker came across that looked like it'd do the trick and didn't look like it'd be too tricky to write an export converter |
| 21:50.41 | brlcad | clock: I'm not sure what that would mean exactly as BRL-CAD is a suite of functionality |
| 21:50.59 | ``Erik | between the new free visual studio and free ios office apps, microsoft seems to be showing the world with gifts O.o I wonder what the real impetus is (desperate effort to regain mind/market share, or just different mgmt?) |
| 21:51.11 | ``Erik | s/showing/showering/ |
| 21:51.34 | clock | brlcad, being able to use BRL-CAD, just change my PC for an analog computer |
| 21:51.48 | clock | brlcad, assuming probably an analog oscilloscope for a screen |
| 21:52.04 | brlcad | hard to exert monopolistic trade agreements when you no longer have the dominant market |
| 21:52.21 | ``Erik | clock: early 'interactive' displays were vector driven instead of raster, dig one of those up :D |
| 21:53.30 | clock | ``Erik, so I guess the program would have to be adapted to be plougged in patch cabels between amplifiers etc. :) |
| 21:54.09 | brlcad | if there's a C compiler for it, no reason I know it wouldn't work |
| 21:54.11 | clock | brlcad, what are the reasons BRL-CAD users use BRL-CAD and not for example autocad or protel or god knows what modeling alternatives exist? |
| 21:54.46 | clock | brlcad, the question if the GCC guys did their homowork of portability properly |
| 21:54.53 | maths22 | brlcad: do you know what that was? |
| 21:55.00 | clock | so that it truly doesn't depend on the compute ryou run on |
| 21:55.21 | clock | ``Erik, in that case GCC should run on analog computers too and one could then compile brlcad there :) |
| 21:55.25 | brlcad | clock: some reasons: http://brlcad.org/tmp/overview_page8.jpg |
| 21:55.25 | ``Erik | clock: solid geometry raytracing for engineering analysis... others like the price and platform support |
| 21:56.10 | clock | brlcad, I dont understand the picture as reasons |
| 21:56.31 | clock | so the commercial competition doesnt have solid geometry raytracing for engineering analysis? |
| 21:56.50 | brlcad | to many "open source" is a reason |
| 21:56.51 | ``Erik | some do, but they're huge, slow and expensive |
| 21:57.13 | brlcad | and yeah, we kick the snot out of them in terms of CAE ray tracing performance |
| 21:57.21 | clock | CAE means...? |
| 21:57.27 | ``Erik | computer aided engineering |
| 21:58.00 | clock | brlcad, is open source a reason even for entities that don't have low budget? |
| 21:58.51 | brlcad | we also handle more detailed models with far less memory overhead, so we can open bigger models before memory limits are encountered |
| 21:58.55 | ``Erik | some orgs with very deep pockets want to audit the code, open source lets them do that without the protracted negotiations closed source vendors would take |
| 21:59.01 | brlcad | clock: yes |
| 21:59.25 | brlcad | CAD vendors come and go and are very costly to adapt business processes around |
| 21:59.52 | brlcad | Pro/E might be a big dog this year, but who is to say in 5, 10, 20 years |
| 21:59.59 | brlcad | you can paint yourself into a corner |
| 22:00.00 | clock | brlcad, is one reason why open source is attractive a requirement for transparency or security auditability? |
| 22:00.13 | brlcad | all the while you paid 5-50k per seat |
| 22:00.14 | ``Erik | what's the average lifetime of an "industry standard" cad vendor lately? in the 5-10 year range, right? |
| 22:00.39 | clock | brlcad, so obese people have to pay 10-100k? Thats discriminatory |
| 22:01.22 | ``Erik | wanders off and gets ready for tae kwon do |
| 22:02.47 | clock | brlcad, this is called vendor lock-in and digital obsolescence right? |
| 22:07.28 | brlcad | clock: yeah |
| 22:08.01 | brlcad | few more reasons and elaborations: http://brlcad.org/tmp/BRL-CAD_Overview_why_page_8.pdf |
| 22:08.37 | brlcad | there's more in our contributor's guide too |
| 22:10.13 | brlcad | maths22: heh, that's cool if you're going to develop something ... the fields are the fields in the gci interface |
| 22:10.23 | brlcad | the only tricky part is the bulk upload feature is just ... terrible |
| 22:10.28 | clock | brlcad, is there a list of major or important BRL-CAD users? |
| 22:10.57 | brlcad | clock: yes and no |
| 22:11.13 | clock | brlcad, so give a URL for the yes part please :) |
| 22:11.14 | brlcad | as open source, you don't necessarily know .. but we know who we have collaborated with over the years |
| 22:11.53 | brlcad | what is this all for or are you just trying to keep me busy? :) |
| 22:12.42 | brlcad | there's a lot of information about past contributing organizations in our AUTHORS file |
| 22:12.52 | clock | brlcad, I dont know I kinda wanna understand the seriousness of brlcad |
| 22:13.01 | maths22 | brlcad: what is the bulk upload format? |
| 22:13.05 | clock | brlcad, maybe thinking about writing an article about brlcad for the linux website I write for |
| 22:13.20 | clock | today I finished another article about image processing by human brain |
| 22:13.49 | clock | brlcad, yeah but the fact someone contributes doesnt mean he uses it seriously |
| 22:13.56 | clock | and even if he used, he might have ceased |
| 22:14.19 | clock | brlcad, do you have users like Siemens, ABB etc.? |
| 22:14.23 | clock | NASA? |
| 22:14.30 | clock | Some governments or armies? |
| 22:14.38 | clock | or Boeing? |
| 22:17.36 | brlcad | maths22: it's basically csv with specific fields |
| 22:18.08 | brlcad | it might be in the melange docs, but I think we figured it out by reversing the process, exporting our tasks, adding more, removing the existing |
| 22:18.39 | brlcad | it's not smart about it .. it's purely a bulk upload with no feedback and no concern for creating duplicates |
| 22:19.09 | brlcad | clock: so if you can define what seriousness means, I "might" be able to provide you a list of orgs that fit that scope |
| 22:19.58 | brlcad | I don't try to define serious myself and prefer to focus on our current development needs regardless of popularity or relevance to the proprietary CAD community |
| 22:20.15 | brlcad | our niche is being NOT proprietary |
| 22:20.26 | clock | brlcad, I would define seriousness arbitrarily as an average of following things: |
| 22:20.29 | brlcad | you want something, you can implement it, right now |
| 22:21.46 | clock | size of business, familiarity of public with the brand/country, percentage of operations of that subject that depends on BRL-CAD, high tech level of the products or operations of the entity, quality perception of the products/operations by the public |
| 22:22.15 | brlcad | clock: the elephant in the room is that brl-cad is used for military analysis work (and not just U.S. DoD but a few other countries too, which I'm not going to itemize) |
| 22:22.24 | clock | brlcad, example: NASA uses BRL-CAD to model their whole space shuttle -> serious |
| 22:22.57 | clock | example: a romanian company of 3 people once used BRL-CAD to model a bent tin to repair their smelly sports closet -> low seriousness |
| 22:23.15 | clock | brlcad, yes I know that one user, US Army :) |
| 22:23.44 | brlcad | brl-cad was used during the development of the hubble space telescope, not for manufacturing but for visualization and preparation |
| 22:23.49 | clock | and I know US Army developed it for themselves which puts this user kinda special |
| 22:24.00 | brlcad | not the shuttle, but then the shuttle program is dead and hubble continues on.. ;) |
| 22:24.03 | clock | brlcad, the hubble is a big bingo for me :) |
| 22:24.25 | maths22 | brlcad: take a look here: http://brlcad.org/gci-dev/tasks |
| 22:24.43 | brlcad | maths22: you are awesome fast |
| 22:24.44 | maths22 | I will add exporting and will password protect it |
| 22:24.51 | clock | brlcad, CERN maybe? |
| 22:24.54 | maths22 | cakephp templating |
| 22:25.04 | maths22 | I meant bake, not templating |
| 22:25.26 | maths22 | Basically all I had to do was create a mysql table, run a script and improve the displayed output |
| 22:25.40 | maths22 | I.E order the inputs, list the options for category |
| 22:25.43 | brlcad | clock: yes, brl-cad was used to model the CERN supercollider before it was built, as brl-cad was the only CAD system capable of modeling the however-many-miles down to sub-millimeter accuracy in-memory |
| 22:26.17 | brlcad | these feel like laoded questions :P |
| 22:26.18 | clock | brlcad, thats a mega bingo :) |
| 22:26.32 | brlcad | what does all that matter though? |
| 22:26.46 | brlcad | I mean, it makes great marketing and should be on our website as showcase material |
| 22:26.57 | clock | brlcad, and the sentence " as brl-cad was the only CAD system capable of modeling the however-many-miles down to sub-millimeter accuracy in-memory" is exactly the kind of extra info I want to know, cause I think it will point out the value of brl-cad in comparison to other alternatives in an article for a public |
| 22:27.02 | brlcad | but that doesn't change where we're at or where we need to go |
| 22:27.22 | clock | brlcad, but it may spur someones interest in brl-cad |
| 22:27.24 | brlcad | I certainly don't disagree with that |
| 22:27.42 | brlcad | that's why I'm trying to work with maths22 and others here on getting our website completely reworked |
| 22:27.47 | clock | brlcad, cause all the way I used brl-cad I got impression its some kind of a huge, but very geeky thing which may be impractical for many users |
| 22:27.54 | brlcad | we have TONS of information that is poorly presented or flat out unavailable |
| 22:28.11 | brlcad | that impression sounds fair :) |
| 22:28.26 | maths22 | brlcad: Let's establish a clear idea of what I am doing with the new website before I do it |
| 22:28.30 | brlcad | and not something I'm content with remaining that way |
| 22:28.32 | clock | brlcad, I can imagine the army has some top scientists which know how to work with it |
| 22:28.36 | clock | like the atomic bomb |
| 22:28.55 | brlcad | maths22: definitely :) |
| 22:29.12 | clock | you dont require atomic bomb to be in a sleek, easily usable package which every housewife can detonate at her whim, making sure she doesnt make mistake, and the controls are self-obvious |
| 22:29.18 | brlcad | maths22: I'll see if I can post my thoughts on what the website should contain and you can do what you want with that info |
| 22:29.20 | maths22 | Also, could you pick a task and try adding it and let me know what you think |
| 22:29.58 | clock | brlcad, atomic bomb permits strange sounding words from latin to be memorized before understanding it at all :) |
| 22:30.09 | clock | ...to be needed to be memorized... |
| 22:31.19 | clock | brlcad, so if people feel not compeled to use brl-cad because of difficulty of use |
| 22:31.31 | clock | I should maybe point out other reasons which may compel them to use it |
| 22:31.48 | clock | like - hubble probably wouldnt use it if it were a complete wreck |
| 22:31.51 | clock | CERN neither |
| 22:32.20 | maths22 | brlcad: bulk import example: https://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/detail?id=2391 |
| 22:32.31 | clock | brlcad, I feel kinda distrust to free software generally because in my experience, there is a large amount of low quality software in this area, and I dont know any obvious first sight mechanism how to distinguish that |
| 22:32.41 | brlcad | maths22: task added, that's nice and pretty close to the gci interface |
| 22:32.52 | clock | brlcad, so a precedent of important usage may produce some trust |
| 22:33.24 | maths22 | I need to add completion time (oops) |
| 22:33.48 | brlcad | maths22: lots of things come to mind for this ... and probably several orgs will want to use it if it integrates seamlessly |
| 22:33.49 | clock | brlcad, also people may think "if they didnt bother to invest into usability which I would found decent, they maybe didn't invest into reliability either" |
| 22:34.22 | clock | brlcad, please keep in mind, that the most complex part of BRL-CAD is its user |
| 22:34.35 | clock | ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND BILLION parts |
| 22:35.27 | brlcad | maths22: okay, so it looks like bulk "updating" might be fixed/working now ... that's Arc's submission, we were talking about it back in October |
| 22:35.27 | clock | I mean cybernetically relevant parts |
| 22:36.17 | clock | brlcad, do you know what function(s) you want the website to fulfill? |
| 22:36.23 | brlcad | maths22: can you try to auto-populate with data from a prior GCI year? |
| 22:36.45 | clock | brlcad, to get an answer to this maybe unclear sounding question, please ask yourself "why not just chug the website?" |
| 22:36.46 | brlcad | clock: we don't need trust or users right now .. we need devs :) |
| 22:37.18 | clock | brlcad, many of the readers are devs |
| 22:37.33 | clock | and may pretty well start to be interested in contributing to brl-cad if it captures their attention |
| 22:37.40 | brlcad | for attracting them, having a website that doesn't suck ass helps, but isn't the end-all .. good getting started docs with a roadmap/vision that is consistent with theirs |
| 22:37.42 | clock | that site is read by many open source enthusiast people |
| 22:38.41 | brlcad | allt he more reason it shouldn't suck |
| 22:38.55 | clock | brlcad, I believe autism is rampant among open source developers |
| 22:39.00 | maths22 | I can try; I will need to figure out a way to bulk import, but it should not be too bad. |
| 22:39.07 | clock | brlcad, maybe you might write ont he BRL-CAD website in big capital letters |
| 22:39.23 | clock | YOU WILL NOT BE ASKED TO DECODE EMOTIONAL EXPRESSION FROM FACES IF YOU WORK FOR US! |
| 22:39.25 | maths22 | Can you export all the incomplete tasks from last year's GCI as the org admin? |
| 22:39.37 | brlcad | can export everything |
| 22:39.57 | maths22 | please email that to me, and I will take care of trying it out |
| 22:40.37 | brlcad | maths22: I can do better |
| 22:41.30 | brlcad | hm, maybe |
| 22:41.54 | clock | brlcad, you need paid or unpaid devs? |
| 22:45.45 | clock | brlcad, ok no answer, I assume unpaid :) |
| 22:47.57 | brlcad | there's upsides and downsides to both |
| 22:48.21 | clock | brlcad, I can do a paid dev for you |
| 22:49.23 | brlcad | maths22: /tmp/gci.dump on .bz has last year's |
| 22:49.44 | brlcad | note it's utf-8 encoded |
| 22:51.37 | clock | brlcad, how much can you par per hr? |
| 22:51.43 | brlcad | clock: we're not set up as an open source community to pay people right now beyond short-term specific activities like contests, materials, supplies, gifts, etc |
| 22:51.57 | clock | oh |
| 22:52.14 | brlcad | there are commercial entities that pay for development, but you'd have to contact them |
| 22:54.16 | clock | brlcad, do they pay for development of brl-cad? |
| 22:55.08 | brlcad | maths22: so the biggest areas where the gci interface needs help is having a list of tasks that we can keep in sync with the gci interface, replicating tasks (N tasks for the same thing) and being able to add more replications at will, and changing the status of tasks |
| 22:55.39 | brlcad | when we upload, it goes into an unpublished state and we have to manually publish each one through a series of clicks |
| 22:56.05 | brlcad | which sucks when you consider we end up creating 2-3 hundred tasks |
| 22:57.23 | brlcad | it'd be enough to be able to import prior tasks, create replicates, and sync with melange |
| 23:02.22 | clock | brlcad, u know the video 7 reasons to choose brlcad? |
| 23:02.52 | maths22 | ok |
| 23:06.09 | brlcad | clock: yes, it was a gci task from last year |
| 23:06.40 | brlcad | maths22: apparently several aspects of csv export/import have changed.. will have to check a few things out |
| 23:06.55 | brlcad | but that data dump is probably the starting point |
| 23:09.18 | maths22 | im not sure how my site would fix the publishing problem |
| 23:12.06 | brlcad | maths22: from the sound of things, publishing will indeed replace/update the existing tasks |
| 23:12.21 | brlcad | so we can use your interface for bulk management |
| 23:12.44 | brlcad | means we'll probably need a few more fields to track their melange id and publish status |
| 23:12.59 | brlcad | but that same status will be useful for publishing to our website too |
| 23:13.28 | brlcad | is thinking this replaces /wiki/Deuces or becomes dynamic content, special page |
| 23:15.10 | maths22 | makes sense |
| 23:15.47 | maths22 | I can also throw a wysiwyg description on |
| 23:20.28 | clock | brlcad, no wonder you need devs, when you don't pay them :) |
| 23:25.45 | *** join/#brlcad mihaineacsu (~textual@92.81.146.124) |
| 23:26.10 | clock | brlcad, it would be delight for me to work on brl-cad but I need some money to operate |
| 23:33.39 | maths22 | exit |
| 23:41.01 | brlcad | no! |
| 23:41.07 | brlcad | (to the exit request) ;) |
| 23:42.29 | brlcad | clock: I like to think of it like gardening |
| 23:43.22 | brlcad | I tend to my code gardens without compensation because I enjoy gardening and if someone paid me to do that same work, it completely changes the enjoyment factor |
| 23:43.41 | brlcad | a lot of open source projects operate that way, even those with a funded+unfunded contributor mix like we have |
| 23:45.39 | teepee | likes that analogy :) |
| 23:49.52 | maths22 | The problems with using ssh on a phone... |
