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| 06:10.41 | Winny | Actually javawizard2539: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnosticism |
| 06:12.41 | Winny | being athiest seems to be as absolute as being theist - you can't prove it either way |
| 06:12.47 | javawizard2539 | Winny: I was looking at http://kylevanessen.com/about-contact/ |
| 06:13.07 | javawizard2539 | Which stated you as atheist, and since I had heard of that more than agnosticism, I kind of assumed they were the same |
| 06:13.22 | javawizard2539 | But I can see the difference between them now |
| 06:13.35 | javawizard2539 | One says that there isn't a God, the other says that we don't know if there is a God or if there isn't |
| 06:13.57 | Winny | I'm more of the opinon there might be but probably not, hence the athiest link |
| 06:14.11 | javawizard2539 | Ok |
| 06:14.15 | javawizard2539 | Yeah, that makes sense now |
| 06:14.50 | javawizard2539 | Admittedly, I have good answers for most, if not all, of the questions/topics on the religion page, but you probably don't want me to waste your time :) |
| 06:15.31 | JeffM | how many of them relly on one old book? |
| 06:15.35 | Winny | hehe |
| 06:15.47 | javawizard2539 | Actually, not very many of them |
| 06:16.00 | JeffM | good, then you guys are learning from the past |
| 06:16.02 | javawizard2539 | Well, that depends on what you call "old" |
| 06:16.04 | JeffM | how very progressive of you |
| 06:16.14 | javawizard2539 | You're not religious either? |
| 06:16.34 | JeffM | not especialy in the way you think of |
| 06:16.41 | javawizard2539 | burns JeffM at the stake |
| 06:16.43 | Winny | you say it as if it is a bad thing |
| 06:16.47 | javawizard2539 | oh wait, theredbaron already did that |
| 06:16.51 | JeffM | as your k ind is wantto do |
| 06:17.01 | javawizard2539 | No, I just get a bit surprised when I meet someone who's not |
| 06:17.12 | javawizard2539 | I live in salt lake city, where over half the people are Mormon |
| 06:17.16 | JeffM | why does that suprise y ou? |
| 06:17.17 | javawizard2539 | And very, very few are non-religions |
| 06:17.21 | JeffM | the world is a big place |
| 06:17.22 | javawizard2539 | It doesn't |
| 06:17.37 | JeffM | you just said it did |
| 06:17.38 | javawizard2539 | It just makes it so that I'm not used to people who aren't religions |
| 06:17.38 | blast007 | it doesn't? You just said it does |
| 06:17.44 | javawizard2539 | doesn't intend that in a perjorative way |
| 06:17.55 | javawizard2539 | huh? |
| 06:17.58 | JeffM | blast007, it's ok, they are used to doing that |
| 06:18.05 | JeffM | <javawizard2539> No, I just get a bit surprised when I meet someone who's not |
| 06:18.09 | javawizard2539 | Oh wait, I was responding to why does that surprise you, assuming was in response to living in salt lake city |
| 06:18.19 | javawizard2539 | yeah, was misinterpreting the conversation |
| 06:18.19 | JeffM | but that was said first |
| 06:18.22 | JeffM | before SLC |
| 06:18.33 | blast007 | not from this end |
| 06:18.43 | JeffM | well interpreting history to fit your current story is also a common MO ;) |
| 06:18.46 | javawizard2539 | <javawizard2539>I live in salt lake city, where over half the people are Mormon |
| 06:18.48 | javawizard2539 | <JeffM>why does that suprise y ou? |
| 06:18.59 | JeffM | <javawizard2539> No, I just get a bit surprised when I meet someone who's not |
| 06:19.00 | JeffM | <javawizard2539> I live in salt lake city, where over half the people are Mormon |
| 06:19.00 | JeffM | <JeffM> why does that suprise y ou? |
| 06:19.00 | JeffM | <javawizard2539> And very, very few are non-religions |
| 06:19.09 | blast007 | lag ftl |
| 06:19.15 | JeffM | there is no way lag could do that |
| 06:19.16 | javawizard2539 | :) |
| 06:19.19 | JeffM | since it's TCP |
| 06:19.34 | blast007 | 00:17:12 < javawizard2539> I live in salt lake city, where over half the people are Mormon |
| 06:19.34 | JeffM | you said it suprised you before SLC, so how could it be a responce to that |
| 06:19.37 | blast007 | 00:17:16 < JeffM> why does that suprise y ou? |
| 06:19.38 | javawizard2539 | I misinterpreted which comment your remark was addressed to |
| 06:19.38 | blast007 | :P |
| 06:19.44 | javawizard2539 | your response came after SLC in my view |
| 06:20.01 | JeffM | so it does suprise you? |
| 06:20.16 | javawizard2539 | Kind of |
| 06:20.24 | JeffM | why? it's a HUGE word |
| 06:20.28 | javawizard2539 | again, I'm not intending that pejoratively |
| 06:20.51 | javawizard2539 | No, I'm just used to people who share the same belief that I do |
| 06:20.55 | blast007 | JeffM: the way IRC works is that you don't receive your own messages, so your messages appear instantly, so a different order can occur from different points of view |
| 06:21.07 | javawizard2539 | And used to stuff like discussing things from the Book of Mormon with random groups of people at the store |
| 06:21.13 | JeffM | blast007, yet the 2 in question were from him ;) |
| 06:21.24 | JeffM | javawizard2539, you have a very small world view |
| 06:21.28 | javawizard2539 | I know |
| 06:21.34 | JeffM | it would do you well to know that the internet is a much larger place |
| 06:21.41 | javawizard2539 | Living in the Mormon capital will do that to you |
| 06:21.41 | JeffM | and most of it is budist ;) |
| 06:21.46 | blast007 | well.. one was from you, and one was from him.. |
| 06:21.47 | javawizard2539 | Budist? |
| 06:21.51 | JeffM | china baby |
| 06:21.52 | JeffM | china |
| 06:22.00 | javawizard2539 | Hmm, good point |
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| 06:22.46 | JeffM | that's one problem I have with most formal religons, they tend to make narrow minded people |
| 06:22.59 | javawizard2539 | Which reminds me... |
| 06:23.15 | javawizard2539 | (not trying to change the subject btw) |
| 06:23.30 | javawizard2539 | I got ~180 methods in my java plugin added |
| 06:23.36 | JeffM | well narrow minded neess does go right into java ;) |
| 06:23.43 | javawizard2539 | :D |
| 06:23.43 | blast007 | lol.. |
| 06:24.04 | javawizard2539 | And C++ isn't. |
| 06:24.27 | javawizard2539 | Like, it doesn't force you into doing explicit memory deallocation. No, it would never do an evil thing like that. :) |
| 06:24.38 | JeffM | parts of your java VM are writen i n C++ ;) so n ot really |
| 06:24.45 | JeffM | it gives you controll |
| 06:24.52 | JeffM | you can write your own GC is you want |
| 06:24.54 | JeffM | like java did |
| 06:25.02 | JeffM | in java you have no choice |
| 06:25.04 | javawizard2539 | Exactly |
| 06:25.06 | JeffM | again, bigger world |
| 06:25.12 | JeffM | not everyone wants GC |
| 06:25.25 | JeffM | if you want GC with no work juse manged C++ |
| 06:25.33 | JeffM | or some other language |
| 06:25.44 | JeffM | languages are tools, they have advantages for tasks |
| 06:25.47 | JeffM | simple as that |
| 06:25.49 | javawizard2539 | concedes that point, although he still think's Java's approach is more simple... |
| 06:26.00 | JeffM | sure if you want a simple task |
| 06:26.12 | javawizard2539 | One thing I still don't get is the difference between global variables and static variables |
| 06:26.16 | JeffM | it's also not the only language that handles memory in a simple way |
| 06:26.17 | javawizard2539 | Java makes them into the same thing |
| 06:26.24 | JeffM | they are the same thing |
| 06:26.38 | javawizard2539 | There's an excellent example of where C++ is too complex |
| 06:26.47 | javawizard2539 | If they are the same thing, then why not only have one of them? |
| 06:26.48 | JeffM | statics are just only available in there scope |
| 06:27.00 | JeffM | becuase you may want to scope them |
| 06:27.08 | javawizard2539 | Why? |
| 06:27.16 | javawizard2539 | Just write your program so that it doesn't modify vars it's not supposed to |
| 06:27.29 | JeffM | becuase more then one person may work on a program |
| 06:27.37 | JeffM | both are bad programing practice anway |
| 06:27.42 | JeffM | god objects suck |
| 06:28.05 | javawizard2539 | thinks that a file with a bunch of globals is just like a God object in that respect |
| 06:28.09 | JeffM | they are tools that may suit a task |
| 06:28.13 | JeffM | yeah it's bad |
| 06:28.17 | JeffM | globals are bad |
| 06:28.27 | JeffM | statics can be usefull for some thinggs |
| 06:28.30 | JeffM | not many but some |
| 06:28.43 | JeffM | such as if you have something that you want to only init once, then ruse |
| 06:28.49 | JeffM | but only ever use it in one function |
| 06:28.57 | JeffM | then you can define it as static in that function |
| 06:29.03 | JeffM | and it'll stay there like a global |
| 06:29.11 | JeffM | but you don't have to put it elsewhere |
| 06:29.16 | blast007 | are statics used for singletons too? |
| 06:29.21 | JeffM | they can be |
| 06:29.34 | javawizard2539 | One other point I had against C++ |
| 06:29.39 | javawizard2539 | Is it's security features |
| 06:29.49 | JeffM | it has none, those are up to you |
| 06:29.51 | javawizard2539 | You can't sandbox an application to anywhere near the amount of control that you can in Java |
| 06:30.05 | JeffM | it's about flexablilty |
| 06:30.12 | javawizard2539 | So for example, if bzflag were to allow servers to write plugins that put a small amount of code on the client side, that wouldn't be safe at all |
| 06:30.20 | javawizard2539 | (assuming that, for some reason, the code neds to be in c++) |
| 06:30.28 | JeffM | that would not work |
| 06:30.32 | JeffM | because it's not a VM |
| 06:30.34 | javawizard2539 | Whereas in java, even if the plugin was a virus, no problem s would occur |
| 06:30.52 | javawizard2539 | Right |
| 06:31.01 | JeffM | like I said,it's a tool |
| 06:31.03 | javawizard2539 | Vms do have some advantage in that area |
| 06:31.05 | JeffM | not a religoun |
| 06:31.07 | JeffM | yes they do |
| 06:31.13 | JeffM | hence lua and other systems |
| 06:31.19 | javawizard2539 | and Java |
| 06:31.24 | javawizard2539 | Don't forget that :) |
| 06:31.24 | JeffM | lua, python, etc. are much better for imbeded scripting |
| 06:31.32 | blast007 | Java? not really |
| 06:31.35 | JeffM | the others are simpler to imbed in to C++ |
| 06:31.41 | JeffM | much smaller |
| 06:31.44 | javawizard2539 | blast007: In terms of security features? |
| 06:31.45 | JeffM | as you have shown |
| 06:31.50 | blast007 | in terms of bloat |
| 06:31.52 | JeffM | yeah |
| 06:31.55 | JeffM | java is prety beffy |
| 06:32.04 | JeffM | statilcy linking a VM would suck |
| 06:32.19 | JeffM | the lua scripting system is very small |
| 06:32.19 | javawizard2539 | But there again, the core java language isn't all bloat |
| 06:32.25 | blast007 | we don't need anywhere near the functionality of Java to warrant adding that much bloat |
| 06:32.25 | JeffM | and only has access to the APIs you give it |
| 06:32.36 | javawizard2539 | I do kind of wish that I could get a java version without the whole standard library for the plugin |
| 06:32.39 | javawizard2539 | Yeah |
| 06:32.54 | JeffM | bingo! |
| 06:33.03 | JeffM | yes you could make java work |
| 06:33.13 | javawizard2539 | Hey, I never said that a huge standard library was good for embedded stuff |
| 06:33.13 | JeffM | heck I could make C work by including a C interperter |
| 06:33.27 | JeffM | there are many tools that would suit the task |
| 06:34.53 | JeffM | import antigravity |
| 06:37.28 | JeffM | will be happy when he can switch some work stuff to a better scripting language |
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| 16:13.13 | me1 | hehe- I just got 4 tks at the same time with laser. :E |
| 16:13.50 | Winny | nice |
| 16:14.53 | blast007 | hehe.. |
| 16:15.00 | blast007 | that takes skill |
| 16:15.15 | blast007 | sorta like shooting yourself head on while you have narrow |
| 16:26.43 | spldart | Mad skillaz |
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| 16:45.00 | me1 | I was surprized I wasn't kicked, I had 0 kills, and 7 tks. |
| 16:45.35 | Winny | you really suck |
| 16:46.54 | spldart | man |
| 16:48.11 | Winny | I kid I kid :P |
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| 20:14.50 | spldart | Sorbet te vita et opprimit, deinde peris! ;) |
| 20:15.38 | Winny | I like turtles. |
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