IRC log for #bzflag-chat on 20081226

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10:07.38teutonhi to all
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10:19.30teutonhi
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17:42.25spldartFoul filthing trash guy through the top most bag out of my trashcan at the still backing up truck at about 8 paces distance. Apparently there were two beer bottles in there and the trash back slit right open and shattered everywhere. The left it for me to clean up before my neighbors drove over it. I took lots of pics to send to our waste company >8-[
17:43.02spldartAh... I left out the part where his aim wasn't to good.... hit the back of the truck bumper and it shattered there.
17:46.55temp_distdid you give him a xmas tip?
17:47.20temp_distit might be retribution... :/
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18:28.29spldartTip the trash guy?
18:28.53spldartI didn't see any bills taped to any of the other trash cans.
18:29.16spldartI'm gonna try to get him fired. Kids could have been hurt.. Tires could have been flattened.
18:29.39spldartI live on a culdesac. lotsa kids play in the circle.
18:31.22Winnyspldart: they do that here all the time
18:31.33Winnywe usually have to throw out our trash a few times
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19:43.45CBGblast007, JeffM: have you done much work on XNA by any chance? Or, any C# really, for that matter.
19:43.55blast007CBG: I've done some
19:44.09JeffMI've done some stuff in C#
19:44.11JeffMnot XNA
19:44.15CBGI'd love for someone to tear apart my mess and help me put it back together in a way that makes sense.
19:44.16JeffMbeen using just GL
19:44.44CBGLike, I am thinking my character should be an object, not just loaded in the initialize method but... man I have no clue. xD
19:45.34blast007CBG: I have little knowledge about the best/correct way to do stuff in the XNA stuff
19:45.35JeffMwhat does your thing do?
19:45.47blast007you might want to ask on the XNA forum even
19:46.48CBGI have an animated 3D model that can walk about with a variety of different camera options (fixed, panning, 3rd person, 1st person) based on simple position based triggers.
19:47.12JeffMdoes the character have a number of methods that only act on it?
19:47.20CBGNeed to add collision detection very soon.
19:47.27CBGUgh...? No?
19:47.41CBGYou see why I am asking for help? :( *sigh*
19:47.49JeffMthen it may not be a candidate for a class
19:47.57JeffMdo you have the code anywhere?
19:48.17CBGI don't understand what "methods acting on it" means
19:48.26CBGYou'd like to look at it?
19:48.29JeffMdo you have functions that do stuff to the character?
19:48.34JeffMlike "move him here"
19:48.54CBGThat code is in the update class
19:49.01CBGs/class/method/
19:49.54JeffMdoes the update method do more then just update the character?
19:52.18JeffMbut sure I'll look at it
19:52.23JeffMdunno if I have xna installed here
19:52.46CBGNot at the moment, but it would do if I had anything more than I do now.
19:53.19CBGThanks! A .rar file good for you, JeffM?
19:53.38JeffMdunnp
19:53.40JeffMdunno
19:55.07JeffMI can try it
19:58.08JeffM7zip suposedly does em all
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20:01.51CBGI'm working with XNA Game Studio 2.0, btw. But it should be OK if you have 3.0.
20:02.25blast007assuming he has XNA at all  ;)
20:02.51CBGWell, it is free if he doesn't (and wants it) :)
20:03.08blast007he'd need C# 2005 for 2.0, iirc
20:03.31CBGAh, yes, that too.
20:04.01CBGBut the project _should_ work in 3.0 as I believe they didn't break anything from 2->3, just added stuff.
20:04.14blast007it has to convert to 3.0
20:04.16blast007so stuff changes
20:04.20blast007changed*
20:04.28blast007and it *might* all work
20:04.50CBG:(
20:05.45CBGJeffM, blast007: http://cannonballguy.com/stuff/CBGsXNA.rar if you're not busy :)
20:06.52CBGthe XNAnimation is the library I am using to load the animated model. To see my code, open MyProject/XNAnimTest3.sln and then Game1.cs in the solution explorer.
20:07.58CBGThe references to the library files should work if you don't move anything about
20:08.53JeffMhmmm, it won't open
20:09.01CBGthe .rar?
20:09.22JeffMthe project
20:09.26JeffMchecking why
20:10.03JeffMsays it's not supported by this install
20:10.03CBGwhich game studio version do you have?
20:10.08JeffMnone
20:10.16JeffMI just have full VC8 and 9
20:10.21CBGahh ok :)
20:10.34CBGdo you have C# 2005 by anychance?
20:11.11JeffMyeah
20:11.12JeffMfull
20:11.26CBGGreat, let me get you a link for XNA 2.0
20:11.38blast007I have it on my laptop, but I probably can't run the compiled game
20:11.48CBGoh?
20:11.49blast007might have been a limit of 3.0, but I needed shaders
20:12.20blast007I do have 3.0 on my other system though
20:12.25CBGah
20:12.56CBGThis looks good, JeffM: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=df80d533-ba87-40b4-abe2-1ef12ea506b7&displaylang=en
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20:25.27blast007doesn't seem to like 2008 w/ XNA 3.0
20:25.40blast007specifically the XNAnimation thing
20:26.20CBG:(
20:27.45blast007oh well, I'm bored, so I'll download 2005 and 2.0
20:28.16CBGwow, thanks! :D
20:28.33JeffMI'm  installing now
20:28.42CBGgreat :)
20:37.04CBGRegarding collision detection, I know I need to use bounding boxes. XNA creates default BBoxes for the models, but they suck, so I need to loop through the meshes in each model to create good BBoxes and then check whether or not any of these BBoxes intersect with any BBox for another model.
20:37.26CBGThough, my latest code, with another model, has some kind of bug in it atm. :(
20:37.56JeffMthat's one way
20:38.09JeffMdepends on how accurate you need it to be
20:38.26CBGSeems to be the main way in XNA, but any way suits me.
20:38.49blast007just make your characters giant blocky people, and then it will be totally accurate
20:39.08CBGheh. Well, the problem is that the "other" model, is a room.
20:39.28CBGAnd it is a single model, so the BBox for that is basically just the whole room...
20:39.59JeffMcan you octree it?
20:40.42CBGnot sure what that means
20:41.57JeffMbbox collisions are only one way to do collisions
20:42.01JeffMand they are the simplest
20:42.07JeffMthere are other ways to do it
20:42.16JeffMan octree lets you break something up
20:42.30JeffMbut if you can only do bbox then break your room into objects
20:42.32JeffMlike bzflag
20:43.08blast007there is Octree tutorials for XNA
20:44.03CBGWell, soon we will be teaming up with students on the "Games Design" course and I can tell you now, they will not be willing to jump through any hoops for us (even if they understand why we want them to). So if I can work out how to create my own BBoxes for a model, then it doesn't need to be split up :)
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20:56.48JeffMCBG, yeah there is a lot you can clean up
20:57.01JeffMwhen you have that many if statements in a row, soemthing can be done better :)
20:58.51CBGyeah, guessed so
21:04.47CBGthe problem is partly that I have put this all together piece by piece over 12 weeks with no help except online tutorials and partly that I have no idea how to implement OO principles...
21:06.30JeffMwhat I ususaly do is have a seperate input method that tests keys
21:06.43JeffMand that sets a movement vector
21:06.50JeffMthen send that to the character update
21:06.56JeffMthen tell the character to draw itself
21:08.06JeffMbasicly just think of your objects as "things"
21:09.03CBGI understand the basics, just not how to put it down in code :(
21:09.24JeffMdo you  know how to write a class?
21:09.41CBGyeah, kinda
21:10.45WinnyI wish schools would teach use object concepts first.. not procedural.. objects make so much more sense, but once you learn to code one way it gets odd to change over
21:11.00JeffMstart by just grouping code into classes
21:14.26CBGso, with the project as it is, what would you recommend for each class?
21:24.53JeffMat least game, world, character
21:25.04JeffMand probably a view
21:25.12CBGOk, thanks. And different methods within each?
21:25.17JeffMhave game do the input and set paramaters in view and character
21:25.18JeffMyeah
21:25.33CBGok, thanks
21:25.44JeffMthen the methods that work on each thing
21:26.53blast007that's the hardest part for me to figure out... how/where to send position updates for the different items
21:27.28blast007XNA has GameComponents and DrawableGameComponents (both that have an Update method, the latter which has it's own Draw method)
21:27.33JeffMmodel view controller isn't a bad place to start
21:27.49blast007hmm
21:28.23blast007yeah, suppose I wouldn't have to do it "the XNA way"
21:29.06JeffMwhat is the xna way?
21:29.51blast007well, with GameComponents, they can get called automatically (Update and Draw) when your main program calls it's Update and Draw
21:30.04JeffMok, so that's just a link
21:30.06blast007but I wasn't finding a good way to pass the position data between the two
21:30.10JeffMand your main is considered the controller
21:30.26JeffMyou could hav the object have it's own controller
21:30.46JeffMeven derive off one for each controller type
21:31.33Winnyblast007: question
21:31.39blast007Winny: answer
21:31.46Winnywait.. nevermind
21:32.01WinnyI was going to ask something related to CSS but I figured it out
21:32.08blast007k
21:32.40blast007JeffM: maybe I should actually read this game design book I have one of these days...  :/
21:32.58CBGgot an XNA book for christmas... might read it. xD
21:33.17JeffMhaving an automatic controller framework can be nice for some things
21:36.37blast007http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb203873.aspx  <-- general idea of how the XNA stuff works
21:51.15Winnyagain? really? http://www.cnn.com/2008/TRAVEL/12/26/airplane.slides/index.html?eref=rss_topstories
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22:26.31me1When a player leaves, do their bullets all end?
22:26.44me1or do they keep going until they end?
22:26.51Winnykeep going I think
22:39.03blast0072.0.x they stop afaik
22:39.19blast007want to test it?
22:39.56Winnyblast007: k
22:39.58Winnywhat server?
22:40.05blast007we could go to mine, I guess
22:40.07blast007since it's empty :P
22:40.12Winnyport?
22:40.13blast0075154
22:42.22Winnyblast007: no
22:42.26Winnyhm, I could swear they did
22:42.28Winnyguess not though
22:43.09blast007I usually have a "Rogue" moment when I'm on a team, and I've gotten good at jamming on "F12" when I shoot at a teammate (and before I hit them)
22:43.54blast007that might be different in 2.99.x (or it might have been a thought, or it was a change in the shot branch)
22:44.10blast007but I know there was some talk about it at one point
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23:48.35YassenHello
23:48.54YassenI'm having a problem with my server and others connecting to it
23:49.47YassenBZFS seems to say that the person is not sending a token and immediatly rejects them
23:50.13Yassenbut I know that these people are connecting in a correct way and that its the server's end that isn't working properly
23:55.22Winny...don't let the door hit you on the way out
23:55.38*** join/#bzflag-chat Yassen (n=18101be5@bz.bzflag.bz)
23:57.26YassenI've tried disabling the firewall, but it doesn't help
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23:59.04Yassenrunning on Windows Vista, v2.0.10 with windows firewall disabled and McAfee security suite
23:59.12Yassenanyone?

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