| 00:13.15 | *** join/#bzflag-chat L4m3r (n=L4m3r@bzflag/developer/L4m3r) |
| 00:21.24 | *** join/#bzflag-chat Wits (n=Wits@248.119.33.65.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 00:54.56 | spldart | Oh crap... smp are easily worked with but only with proper tools... I use a soldering station and "chip quick" smp ic desoldering kit for easy r n r of flat pack IC's... more conventional parts are easily r n r'd with some flux and a good regulated iron. |
| 00:55.01 | spldart | @ jeffm |
| 00:55.38 | spldart | I have tricks of the trade to for getting by without but it's not the 'proper' way of doin smp work. |
| 00:56.37 | spldart | I've pulled flat pack ucom's with a striped clean wire twistie off a loaf of bread and a radio shack soldering iron with a light dimmer as a regulator for heat. But that's just me and 30 years of soldering experience. |
| 00:58.02 | spldart | quests the fridge for bbq sauce |
| 00:59.09 | JefferyM | I would not want to pull, I would want to place |
| 01:09.08 | spldart | So you have pads available that haven't been used for a components placement? |
| 01:10.03 | spldart | I would 'tin' them with some good solder... then put a little extra flux on them.... then hold the part in question in place with tweezers flowing some key places to hold the component.. once placement is confirmed under a magnyfing glass then flow the rest of the pads. |
| 01:12.49 | JefferyM | I have nothing yet, I was just looking at some steper motor contollers that had some SMP stuff |
| 01:12.57 | JefferyM | they sugested solder paste and a hotplate |
| 01:14.59 | JefferyM | http://www.reprap.org/bin/view/Main/Stepper_Motor_Driver_2_3 |
| 01:26.33 | spldart | looks..... hopes jeff comes back |
| 01:26.59 | spldart | Fast anf furious texting the other parental unit |
| 01:28.53 | spldart | Oh yeah... work with stuff like that all th time... |
| 01:29.08 | spldart | know he will have to cut and past this stuff back at heffe |
| 01:31.43 | spldart | oooOOOooo... i wonder what he's controlling with that.... and if I can utilize this technology to take over the world. |
| 01:34.04 | *** join/#bzflag-chat JeffM (n=JeffM@bzflag/projectadmin/JeffM) |
| 01:34.43 | *** join/#bzflag-chat JeffM (n=JeffM@bzflag/projectadmin/JeffM) |
| 01:36.34 | spldart | * spldart looks..... hopes jeff comes back |
| 01:36.35 | spldart | <spldart> Fast anf furious texting the other parental unit |
| 01:36.35 | spldart | <spldart> Oh yeah... work with stuff like that all th time... |
| 01:36.35 | spldart | * spldart know he will have to cut and past this stuff back at heffe |
| 01:36.35 | spldart | <spldart> oooOOOooo... i wonder what he's controlling with that.... and if I can utilize this technology to take over the world. |
| 01:37.23 | spldart | I'm not found of the hot plate idea... but it may be a good way to go for a non-pro s.m. type |
| 01:40.45 | JeffM | I want to make a CNC machine |
| 01:41.08 | JeffM | I'm just on the fence between using the PC and the LPT port for stepper controll, or using a microcontroler |
| 01:41.35 | JeffM | the reprap system uses a microconroller and 3 steppr boards |
| 01:43.12 | JeffM | the microcontroller is all normal pin/hole stuff, but some of the other stuff is SMP |
| 01:43.22 | JeffM | and yeah the hotplate idea didn't seem that kosher to me |
| 01:43.35 | spldart | oh |
| 01:44.37 | spldart | yeah... the idea of bringing all the compoinents to that temp isn't confy... industrial soldering only brings them there for a brief few moments but their idea has them there for quite a bit longer. |
| 01:45.10 | spldart | well. |
| 01:45.33 | spldart | the key to that kit is LOTS of soldering flux... it will keep your soldering from bridging. |
| 01:45.59 | spldart | and a great tip on the iron.. I'd run the iron at 750 degrees |
| 01:46.08 | spldart | If I were you |
| 01:46.34 | spldart | 800 for me... but I'd have that together in under an hour... Less if there isn't any sci-fi playing in my general vicinity. |
| 01:46.43 | JeffM | does not know what his cheapass iron runs at |
| 01:46.57 | spldart | .. ye4ah... cheap ass iron is an issue |
| 01:47.05 | spldart | smp and cheap iron don't mix well |
| 01:47.18 | JeffM | dtr has a nice one, perhaps I could borrow it, or con him into doing it :) |
| 01:47.19 | spldart | but a cheap soldering station can be had for well under 100 bux last I checked... |
| 01:47.32 | spldart | heh |
| 01:47.34 | JeffM | my iron was 9$ |
| 01:47.41 | spldart | Yeah...... NO |
| 01:48.03 | JeffM | it works better then the 15$ radio shack one :) |
| 01:48.14 | spldart | That's well and good.... ;) |
| 01:48.21 | spldart | but ... no... |
| 01:48.30 | spldart | If I were desperate.. I would try it. |
| 01:48.32 | JeffM | all I use it for is soldering conectors onto wires for model airplanes |
| 01:48.48 | spldart | but I'm really, really good at surface mount. |
| 01:49.28 | spldart | a 75 dollar regulated iron could make you seem like you stayed at a holiday inn express last night though. |
| 01:50.02 | JeffM | heh |
| 01:50.07 | JeffM | http://www.amazon.com/ECG-J-025-Watt-Soldering-Iron/dp/B0002GLZM4 |
| 01:50.09 | JeffM | that's what I have |
| 01:51.23 | spldart | And this would be a rough example of a bare mininum of what you would need http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/TENMA-21-7940-/21-7940 |
| 01:52.20 | spldart | Though if you were really making alot of these even this iron would be beneath the reaquirment. |
| 01:52.34 | JeffM | heh, I plan on making one ;) |
| 01:53.51 | spldart | oki doke... Well... it's possible you could do one... taking your time... using lots of flux.. with your iron... |
| 01:54.06 | spldart | Depends on yuour soldering experience and your patience. |
| 01:54.43 | spldart | and doin one hardly rates buying a 65 to 100 dollar regulated iron. |
| 01:55.05 | JeffM | well there would be a couple boards, not all have SMP stuff |
| 01:55.13 | spldart | How nice is dtr's? |
| 01:55.18 | JeffM | dunno |
| 01:55.21 | JeffM | have to ask him |
| 01:55.26 | spldart | ic |
| 01:55.55 | spldart | if your only doin one board and his is nice enough.... well... yah know |
| 01:56.28 | JeffM | bassicaly it'd be building the stuff on this page |
| 01:56.29 | JeffM | http://www.reprap.org/bin/view/Main/Generation2Electronics |
| 01:57.50 | JeffM | unless I decide to go Gen3, then that adds a motherboard with an SD slot |
| 01:58.04 | spldart | That looks incredibly cool |
| 01:58.26 | JeffM | the sanguino kit is only 25$ |
| 01:58.37 | JeffM | and the motor contorllers are only 20$ each |
| 01:59.29 | spldart | I'm seriously intrigued.. but what materials are you planning on working with with this rig? |
| 01:59.41 | JeffM | at the least soft plastics |
| 01:59.56 | JeffM | I will repace the "extruder" head they use with a dremel tool flex head |
| 02:00.08 | JeffM | if I can get it ridgid enough, maybe aluminum. |
| 02:00.26 | spldart | Now that is where it gets VERY interseting |
| 02:00.32 | spldart | interesting even |
| 02:01.02 | JeffM | there is a cheaper way that uses the LPT port of a PC to run the stepper, but from what I've read, it gets hard to get accurate timing on those |
| 02:01.06 | JeffM | cus you have to wait for the OS |
| 02:01.56 | spldart | seems like hardware would also be a timing issue shoving data through lpt1 ... but I could be wrong. |
| 02:02.59 | JeffM | you get 8 bits out, so you can run 3 motors easy |
| 02:03.20 | JeffM | but getting the pulses to come out exactly right for interpolation can be hard |
| 02:03.54 | JeffM | a microcontroller can run at it's own clock and be ok |
| 02:04.45 | spldart | yeah |
| 02:05.16 | spldart | Not that this is my area of expertise but I would prefer a dedicated ucom |
| 02:05.26 | JeffM | the controller for the reprap supports a form of gcode so getting programs into it will not be hard for me :) |
| 02:05.36 | JeffM | what is a ucom? |
| 02:05.44 | spldart | oop |
| 02:06.11 | spldart | dedicated microcomputer... schematics often call them micoms or ucoms for short. |
| 02:06.18 | JeffM | ahh |
| 02:06.21 | spldart | sorry |
| 02:06.24 | JeffM | yeah that seems to be the best way to go |
| 02:06.26 | spldart | my tech talk... not yours |
| 02:06.31 | JeffM | not sure how easy it will be to extend |
| 02:06.41 | JeffM | eventualy I'd like to add more axes |
| 02:06.50 | spldart | Really? |
| 02:06.55 | JeffM | ohh yeah |
| 02:07.03 | JeffM | 5 on a mill would be nice |
| 02:07.12 | JeffM | and I could do a 6 axis lathe pretty easy |
| 02:07.21 | spldart | Woah.. |
| 02:07.23 | JeffM | and also the ancilary stuff for utility functions |
| 02:07.36 | spldart | Like... changing tool heads? |
| 02:07.43 | JeffM | yeah |
| 02:07.48 | spldart | Oh ... very sweet |
| 02:07.51 | JeffM | and coolant etc.. |
| 02:08.06 | spldart | ah... for metal cutting.. the aforementioned aluminij m |
| 02:08.10 | spldart | gah |
| 02:08.14 | spldart | I'm typing at a bad angle |
| 02:08.27 | JeffM | it's funny, most of the reading I've done, people have not even tried for that kinda stuff because the pograming of the moves is hard, and that's the simple part for me :) |
| 02:08.50 | spldart | ooOOooo... Perhaps a collaboration then ;) |
| 02:08.57 | spldart | With one of them.. I mean |
| 02:09.03 | JeffM | maybe |
| 02:09.11 | JeffM | have to build one first |
| 02:09.18 | spldart | yeah |
| 02:09.34 | JeffM | but then the software I'd controll it with would not be open soruce |
| 02:09.43 | spldart | I can almost see your brain child on youtube right now |
| 02:12.04 | JeffM | it's just a CNC machine, nothing that special |
| 02:13.29 | spldart | Just a homemade cnc machine.. Hand made by the operator... that's special... I've often thought of what would be possible if....... |
| 02:14.08 | spldart | ... all those small plastic parts.... Hrm... and better yet aluminum. |
| 02:14.18 | spldart | nah.. I'm a troublemaker. |
| 02:15.10 | JeffM | I like the concept of the reprap extruder too, building up structures in an addiive process would be nice |
| 02:15.31 | JeffM | but I think they should have concentrated on cutting first ;) |
| 02:17.02 | spldart | That's that process I saw on some science and tech show along time ago where they were talking about... ooOOoo.. astronauts could create their very own replacement parts on the shuttle or a space station isn't it... kinda a epoxy that's built up in a machine then final cut to exact dimenstion |
| 02:17.50 | JeffM | you can't do it in space |
| 02:17.53 | JeffM | it needs gravity |
| 02:17.55 | JeffM | you can cut in space |
| 02:18.18 | JeffM | sterio lithography ( the process) usualy needs a fixed Z step |
| 02:18.43 | spldart | hrm... must of mixed up two sci specials in my head ;) |
| 02:19.14 | JeffM | you ether push out a material, or use a laser to cure a resin in a patern for one "slice" of the object |
| 02:19.20 | JeffM | then you move down or up and do it again |
| 02:19.33 | JeffM | so your object is a stack of cross-sections |
| 02:19.55 | spldart | Sounds familiar. I must have mixed it up. |
| 02:24.03 | JeffM | cutting is space holds it's own challenges, cooling, and cleanup etc.. |
| 02:24.11 | JeffM | but most of that you can get around with large air currents |
| 02:25.46 | spldart | Now I'm seeing a chop vac segmented plastic line attached near the cutting tool... flopping around in the seemingly erratic operation of the steppar motors. |
| 02:26.13 | JeffM | that happens here for coolant |
| 02:26.18 | JeffM | cutting metal makes LOTS of heat |
| 02:27.42 | spldart | You use oil or water for coolant? |
| 02:27.57 | spldart | I've always used oil in the machine shop... when I did machingin |
| 02:27.59 | JeffM | depends on your material, but most CNCs use a form of oil |
| 02:28.04 | JeffM | stinks like hell too |
| 02:28.11 | spldart | yep |
| 02:28.36 | JeffM | some can use air to blow chips out of the way too |
| 02:37.59 | AAA_awright | Anyone know what to do with 12 GB of memory on a computer? |
| 02:38.41 | JeffM | cure cancer? |
| 02:38.56 | JeffM | play everquest 2? |
| 02:47.22 | AAA_awright | xD |
| 03:04.52 | spldart | 12 gig... dude |
| 03:05.11 | spldart | 's 4 gig goes limp ;) |
| 03:05.41 | JeffM | DDR3 systems can have 6 slots, so that's just filling it with 2 gig dimms |
| 03:06.36 | JeffM | 4 gigs of ddr2 is only like 50$ |
| 03:06.55 | spldart | Oh I know.... it's 50 bux now! geez |
| 03:07.11 | JeffM | 45-50 yeah |
| 03:07.36 | spldart | meh... time to get more I guess.... unless I find out what I think might have happened happens. |
| 03:07.53 | spldart | thinks this damned depression has finally got to my job.. |
| 03:07.59 | JeffM | you should check how much your mobo suports |
| 03:08.01 | spldart | I think my hours are about ot be cut in half |
| 03:08.14 | JeffM | mine only supports up to 8 :( |
| 03:08.26 | spldart | googles |
| 03:10.21 | spldart | off giga website.... 4 x 1.8V DDR2 DIMM sockets supporting up to 16 GB of system memory |
| 03:10.33 | JeffM | cool |
| 03:10.53 | spldart | well.. if I still have a full time job tomoorow... maybe in a week or 4 |
| 03:11.36 | JeffM | the 50$ was for a pair of 2 gig dimms, single 4 gigers will be more |
| 03:12.10 | spldart | true... I would settle for 4 2's |
| 03:12.19 | spldart | wait |
| 03:12.22 | spldart | err |
| 03:12.58 | spldart | Yeah... I'll settle for 8 gig |
| 03:14.18 | spldart | I rarely use past 1.5 except for vid editing... and even then rarely past 2.75....hadn't hit 4 gig... but the way software is goin... Oh yeah! I'll have to get high mem support from linux at that point... only using, what, 3.5 of my 4 gig currently in deb |
| 03:14.34 | JeffM | you have all 64 bit OSs right? |
| 03:15.05 | spldart | win 7 64 and deb is running 64 kernel yeah |
| 03:15.54 | JeffM | you buy your cheap windows 7 upgrades? |
| 03:15.58 | spldart | although I find I'm just puttering along in almost exclusively 32 bit applications O_o |
| 03:17.05 | spldart | Nopers. Got 7 RC last weekend and haven't bought a thing... cuz of the event i spoke to you about 2 months or so ago and they event that may be hitting me tomorrow. I may be a casualty of this depression sooon. |
| 03:17.22 | spldart | s/they/the |
| 03:17.24 | JeffM | 50$ a pop |
| 03:17.28 | spldart | I know |
| 03:17.36 | spldart | it's killing me to not jump on that. |
| 03:17.42 | spldart | I'm dying here. |
| 03:19.25 | JeffM | you'll live |
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| 03:21.32 | spldart | Meh |
| 03:26.30 | JeffM | DTRemenak, so how cool IS your soldering iron? |
| 03:26.47 | DTRemenak | um...it's the $10 at radio shack iirc :) |
| 03:26.56 | spldart | DOH! |
| 03:26.58 | JeffM | ahh, so 1$ better then mine |
| 03:27.10 | JeffM | I thought you had a good station |
| 03:27.13 | DTRemenak | simple, low power...best kind for electronics imho |
| 03:27.31 | DTRemenak | I've got a decent stand for it, sure |
| 03:27.38 | spldart | Lots of solder flux |
| 03:27.41 | DTRemenak | (cost more than the iron ;) ) |
| 03:27.51 | JeffM | I think I'm going to try to assemble a Sanguino board |
| 03:27.58 | spldart | aka rosin... whateva |
| 03:28.11 | DTRemenak | cool |
| 03:28.28 | DTRemenak | shouldn't be much trouble, as long as there are no pga or sm components |
| 03:28.33 | JeffM | and some stepper controllers, but they have SM stuff |
| 03:28.36 | spldart | hehehehhehe |
| 03:28.44 | spldart | sry |
| 03:28.57 | spldart | at least there is no bga |
| 03:29.06 | JeffM | the website sugests solder paste and a hotplate for the SMP stuff |
| 03:29.07 | DTRemenak | heh, need an oven for that :) |
| 03:29.16 | JeffM | http://www.reprap.org/bin/view/Main/Stepper_Motor_Driver_2_3 |
| 03:30.05 | DTRemenak | typically doesn't try smt components ;) |
| 03:31.18 | DTRemenak | solder paste and a hotplate does work |
| 03:31.31 | DTRemenak | if you use a cheap hotplate you'll need a heat spreader also |
| 03:31.40 | DTRemenak | aluminum plate works pretty well |
| 03:31.54 | JeffM | cookie sheet :) |
| 03:32.54 | blast007 | meh.. wonder if there is a way to make the grub bootloader and/or Ubuntu not be stupid... whenever a new kernel version comes out, it makes two new entries at the top of the list, but doesn't adjust the default option.. so instead of loading Windows XP, I get memtest86+ :P |
| 03:34.03 | DTRemenak | sure, put windows at the top of the list |
| 03:34.23 | DTRemenak | and at every third position down from it |
| 03:34.30 | DTRemenak | then set the default to the last one |
| 03:34.37 | DTRemenak | and you'll be good for a few revs ;) |
| 03:35.42 | blast007 | lol |
| 03:35.44 | spldart | hehe... when I put debian on the top in grub and get a new kernel I get a broken brug |
| 03:36.02 | spldart | s/brug/grub.. geeez |
| 03:36.06 | spldart | how did I do that |
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| 07:20.14 | AAA_awright | blast007: Debians choice to use meta-comments to manage grub was a poor one on their part, I think. Take a look into the savedefault option, though. |
| 07:21.17 | AAA_awright | set the default kernel to "saved" then in their meta-comments or whatever they use remove the "savedefault" option to the Linux kernels, that might work. |
| 07:27.43 | blast007 | AAA_awright: I just moved XP to the top |
| 07:28.37 | AAA_awright | Did you test to see the debian scripts are ok with that? |
| 07:28.47 | blast007 | nope |
| 07:29.00 | blast007 | I put in in a spot above the autogenerated comment |
| 07:29.06 | blast007 | where it said to keep stuff out of |
| 07:31.59 | AAA_awright | k. I don't see why update-grub should have a problem with it anyways. It probably makes sense the default option is at the top now that I think about it... |
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| 18:34.31 | spldart | Yep.. My hours have been cut in half. Confirmed. |
| 18:34.39 | spldart | Holy shizznizzle |
| 18:34.46 | temp_work | yuck! |
| 18:34.47 | blast007 | :/ |
| 18:35.20 | spldart | Starting next week approximately. |
| 18:35.33 | blast007 | quick, work overtime! |
| 18:35.43 | spldart | I don't get payed overtime |
| 18:35.48 | blast007 | damn |
| 18:35.59 | spldart | I usually do work overtime.. 6 days a week. |
| 18:36.16 | spldart | instead of 5 like everyone else |
| 18:36.46 | spldart | and I'm welcome to just HANG OUT at the shop. But work? no |
| 18:37.06 | spldart | At least I'm not fired like the other guys |
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